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Roadside busts I observed today / police empathy disorder? February 13, 2008 4:05 PM

I have been looking carefully at police behavior lately -- through the corners of my eyes of course. Today I saw two cars pulled over just now in the in pouring rain in Highland. Both cars had their driver's side doors open, both drivers were standing behind their cars getting soaked, and both police officers were leaning inside the cars looking around. Quite frankly, as I learn more about the functions of the human, especially with respect to neurology and morality, I find it difficult to believe that humans are "basically criminal," as this kind of enforcement would imply. So these two attempts at search and seizure would then not only be rights violations, but immoral acts, as I believe a warrants or "cause" is necessary for searches. Because of what I have learned about neurology, I have suspicions about the neural "facilities" of these officers. Do they have the ability to understand that what they are doing is wrong, not from a legal or "psychotic" perspective, but from an empathic perspective? It appears extremely likely to me that these police may have defective, or perhaps disconnected, empathic neurons: specifically spindle and mirror cells. If this is so, then it would also seem likely that the "system" for recruiting and training police is promoting people who are lacking these key human neurons; If this is the case, then the police may be largely defective. To extend this idea further, investigators lacking the mirror neuron should have almost no way to determine if a suspect is lying as people known to be missing this neuron are easily fooled. In my experience, this is as bad as I have seen things-- our state enforcement officials here seem determined to hurt people, possibly more so than in other states. Why? Are the officials likewise missing key neurons? In the very near future these neurons will be visible to magnetic scanning equipment. I am not too worried about the police myself in this regard. As a former trucker, I am exceedingly careful about speed limits, lights, turns, and intersections, so I don't expect to get pulled over myself. And if I do, I know how to act -- really friendly !!  [ send green star]
Roadside Behaviour February 13, 2008 5:17 PM

I wonder if it was a similar situation up here in rural Ontario. I like to drive at night when there is less traffic. I obey the speed limits at all times, for my safety and that of any nocturnal critters.

For some reason it seems to be the unwritten rule that when the police see a car that they follow for miles with their high beams on before pulling me over for "swerving". As a young woman I am sometimes nervous about pulling over to let a stranger who has been following me (even a police officer) stop me in the middle of nowhere.

Maybe they're missing the mirror neurons too.

 [ send green star]
Re: [Radical Empathy] Roadside busts I observed today / police empathy disorder? February 13, 2008 5:38 PM

When I get tailgated, and I think it is the police, I pull over. If I can pull over into a parking lot, such as in a gas station, I get out, and they still follow, I get out. On time I actually did that and locked the keys in the car by accident -- that was the happiest accident of my life, and I wish I could tell you why !!  [ send green star]
OH why why?? February 14, 2008 5:22 AM

Actually I think sometimes it is a particular type of person who applies to the police force. They are people who want to feel powerful, maybe they were never picked to be a monitor or prefect at school. Some of them were bullied and want to have the feeling of being on the other side of that bullying.
They are no longer the freindly neigborhood 'bobby'.
I have been on the recieving end of one of these types and he didn't think twice about lying in court and even changing his lies to suit the occassion. He was a total bully/psycho.
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 February 14, 2008 6:13 AM

I too believe that the empathic part of most officers brains are deficient if not missing altogether for the general public. Curiously however, they can be empathic towards their fellow officers that get criticized for torturing or killing citizens.  [ send green star]
 February 14, 2008 10:57 AM

Thanks for all the input everybody, I am going to reverse the thread direction to show the lastest posts first.

Also, I am going to email the text here -- or testimonials -- to my lawyer.

I had to get one recently when I found out that some sealed records from nearly 20 years ago have suddenly become un-sealed -- this may cause problems for my future as a therapist for children with severe disorders.

Things really have never been this bad. I believe that the problem is the spread of anti-empathy as the social, or anti-social, layer of globalism.

This post was modified from its original form on 14 Feb, 10:58

This post was modified from its original form on 14 Feb, 10:58  [ send green star]
 February 14, 2008 11:30 AM

Donna wrote: "Curiously however, they [meaning police officers, ed] can be empathic towards their fellow officers that get criticized for torturing or killing citizens. This is a key idea with respect to empathy, and hence morality. Empathy and sympathy are in the same area of discussion, but have opposite meaning. Sympathy, is literally selfish, it is feeling you have within you for things outside you, or for yourself. Empathy is pure communication: emotional communication, and not character-based, and hence digital, communication. Speech is character-based, hugs are emotionally based. Altruism, for instance, is sympathetic, because altruism is rewarded by society, whereas genuine bravery is empathic; the act of bravery is done purely based on emotion; it is subjective. This idea parallels the common uses of the words subjective and objective. Objectivists, such as Libertarians, like to say they function purely based on reason, and that people who use feeling as part of their thinking are sentimental, and hence stupid. (**note below about this) There are a lot of parallel ideas here that may seem divergent, and can definitely be confusing. What has helped me personally sort out all these issues is adapting the highly abstract concept of "layering" or "stacking" from the Internet protocol network layer stack, or IP stack. In the IP stack the top layer is literally the the fingers of the Internet user, the bottom consists of wires and electrons; and in between are the application layers, addressing, and routing layers. Every action on the Internet "hits" on every layer in different way, yet every event that occurs on the different stacks is part of the same action. In the empathic version of the IP stack, I see the neurons as the basic level, the neural constructs that develop our thoughts being on the next level up, our speech and hearing a layer above that, our conversations and relationships a layer above that, and ultimately community and society at the top, as well as the natural surrounding environment. So if someone is missing neural constructs, then there will be missing facilities in the above layers, and hence missing social abilities as we move up to the social layer. So if enforcers are missing empathic neural constructs, then they will show there lack of genuine respect by, say dumping a quadriplegic from his wheel chair; something that happened to a friend of a friend recently:
There is a video with this story ** About objective and subjective thinking: objective is really sequential, where objective is part of subjective. I believe these function purely based on sequential thoughts, and they misuse the word objective (and as it happens nearly every other word they use). They simply go from one thing to the next, and are entirely unable to "multi-task" Multitasking is probably supported by the other empathic neuron, the spindle cell, which has long dendrites and connect different parts of the mind, such as emotional and logical. Some people I know have great imaginations and do great work telling me they have great spindle cells, but cannot collaborate and therefore cannot successfully publish because they have dysfunctional mirror cells. These people also lack loyalty in my experience.  [ send green star]
 February 14, 2008 11:46 AM

The long writing that I put below is in its own, much fixed-up, document: empathy, sympathy, layering, subjective, objective, sequential ->> CLICK  [ send green star]
hmm February 15, 2008 11:09 AM

There could be something in the training process too which 'blocks' empathy. I know they have a very 'old boy' mentality in these training schools with schoolboy pranks and initiation ceremonies. They are generally cruel to any misfits (women, different ethnicities etc) and to fit in one needs to 'join in'.
Can empathy be quelled or 'unlearned'? I think it can.
 [ send green star]
 February 22, 2008 8:09 AM

The military in particular now uses extreme forms of social and psychological conditioning, originally to improve "kill rates", because, rather naturally, most human beings are not normally interested in killing each other.  I imagine some of these people do make their way into police forces after the military.  Is empathy conditioned out of them?  Can they be healed?  Neither clearly is known by me, and clearly the military does not care what happens to people after they used them for their wars.  The result seems to me a damaged society from within.

 [ send green star]
 February 26, 2008 3:49 PM

From my reading, the empathic neurons are natrually formed, and cannot be destroyed, only disconnected.

They begin to be formed shortly after birth, and are fully formed by age 4. Some say the neurons can keep forming, giving empathy to people who lack it, clinically people with apsergers (though I try to avoid medical labels as patients are more often "mislabeled" as not).

What I think is that among people there is a wide range of available empathic neurons, and this is probably true of animals too. The good news is that the majority of us have enough of these neurons to work collaboratively. The bad news is that there is probably a slow decay of the evolutionary process creating an overall decline available neurons. The decay is well documented, some such as the atheist Dawkins say it is "natural." This is pure lie, the natural purpose, or perhaps goal, of evolution is empathy. Empathy has developed to the level humans have along another path, the whales; and as it turns out, the whales have empathic neurons that we do not have.

Training works on people who have a shortage of empathic neurons. Since they are unable to "imagine" what their world needs to look like, they have be be "imprinted" with this image: missing spindle neurons.

People with fully active neurons, that have been well exercised, balk at training and look to learn from experience, and from information shared by others. Innovation is what creates accomplishment; innovation is a developed talent, not a taught skill.

Guilt, in conjunction with trauma, I believe is the tool most used by society to disconnect neurons. The most common control tactic is abuse associated with false information that the abused is somehow bad, or immoral. We have all experienced it and I hardly need to provide examples, but I feel compelled to mention the Roman Catholic Inquisition.

Empathy as way of viewing people is enlightened in that it provides freedom from bias. By using empathy, or anti-empathy, as the single criteria for natural harmony, one can let go of all labels; one can end the frustration of attempting to understand people based on external observations or environmental experiences . Gone is the need to categorize, all good people are good in the same way. And all bad people are the same in that they disconnected and their thinking is purely self-centered; they are narcissistic.

One thing that is unique to our age that is accelerating this mental isolation that leads to cruelty is the drug cocaine. I watched a former friend of mine poison himself with injections of cocaine and heroin hourly for days straight: he completely destroyed his emapthy, his concern for others. He did this deliberately to make himself a better liar, con artist, and criminal. I believe that the damage to the neurons from cocaine is not recoverable, except over a very long period of time, perhaps ten years.

People recovering from cocaine abuse can then only be imprinted with behavioral patterns which make them acceptable to society -- but beware, they are only one defective thought away from an anti-empathic act. (Heroin does not seem as bad, and marijuana is harmless to empathic neurons.)

This post was modified from its original form on 26 Feb, 15:51  [ send green star]
Wow February 26, 2008 4:23 PM

that stuff about cocaine is very interesting!
I fell out with my best friend/cousin over her use of cocaine and because she became such a 'monster' on it. I still havn't made up after 8 years!!! That is exactly what I'm afraid of, that she won't ever be the same person again.

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So February 26, 2008 4:26 PM

a question......
In the case of say slaughterhouse workers or lab technicians I have heard that they must go through a gradual process of desensitization. How does this affect their neurons? and can it be fixed again?
I have heard of some ex-animal abusers becoming staunch campaigners when they suddenly could 'take no more'.
I'd be very interested to know.

 [ send green star]
Also February 28, 2008 4:56 AM

This might interest you. Regarding people with high IQ's being rejected applicants to the police force:
scroll to the second one......

 [ send green star]
 March 03, 2008 8:09 AM

This is very interesting, thanks for posting it Catherine (aka ALFlover).

My argument here is not about intelligence so much as emotion, as intelligence does not equal morality, but emotional communication does.

If there were an "emotional quotient" test, to borrow a phrase from Goleman's book EQ, then society would definitely use it to disqualify, but I don't think they have to. People without empathy can detect empathy and I believe it scares them; they have learned to avoid or reject empathic people if they cannot control, and hence abuse them. Empathy only causes trouble for un-empathic people.

For instance, an empathic person will feel compelled to "turn in" an un-empathic person who acted anti-empathically by being abusive to gain some tangible benefit such as money, or even sex. Anti-empathic people certainly notice this happening to them, and through simple behavioral mechanics avoid empathy in social situations.

The article shows the sickness of the court systems, and shows why I am "anti-rational" and rationality, as we see here, can contradict correctly constructed knowledge.

The judge noted that "a body of professional literature concludes that hiring overqualified applicants leads to subsequent job dissatisfaction and turnover."

In affirming, a three-judge appellate panel said, "Plaintiff presented some evidence that high scorers do not actually experience more job dissatisfaction, but that evidence does not create a factual issue, because it matters not whether the city's decision was correct so long as it was rational."

What this says, is that right and wrong are irrelevant. All that matters is that the "powers that be" can rationalize -- this goes to my idea of how objectivists, who promote their rational thinking over subjective, or emotional, thought, think only sequentially. By thinking only sequentially, they can bypass the natural necessity for thinking for the good of the community.

Heinlein said that "man is not a rational animal, but a rationalizing animal." He means that we spend less time thinking about what we need to do. We act on impulse and then use our intelligence to justify our actions.

I say "we" and "our" in the very general sense; I think most people here in this group or on Care2 think carefully about how their actions will affect others: that is a major part of being empathic.

 [ send green star]
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