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Is roo meat banned in the US?
10 years ago
I just read that kangaroo meat is banned in the US. The reason given was that they are cute and some congressman's wife heard they are endagered. How can I check this, and is anyone interested in helping me get the ban lifted?
10 years ago
Sorry...I just noticed this thread.  I cannot offer any help either way, Freediver...1)I'm vegetarian, 2)I think Roo's are very cute and I'd never want to eat one .  Pet? yes!  Kill and eat?  No.  3)I hope it is banned here, in the states.  Sorry...anyone else???
10 years ago
Why is it worse to eat kangaroo meat than to eat any other animal?  (Assuming that they are not actually endangered.)
kangaroo's
10 years ago

are not endangered. i agree - why should the 'cuteness' of an animal operate to determine its edibility? I'm not sure kangaroos would make good pets either (i am not a fan of pets in general)

from oz
10 years ago
It's just like any other game meat here. slice it thinly, marinate, and pan fry medium rare.  very low in fat.

It would be safe to say Kangaroos are far from endangered here.  There are annual culls in a lot of areas to protect the mob's from over breeding and starving on the remaining natural resources due to the on-going drought.  They are terribly cute though have brains the size of peanuts and can be very vicious.

I think people should be more concerned about de forestation in the world to protect natural resources and prevent big business from exploiting poorer countries.
10 years ago

To the people who think they are cute - have you seen wild ones, and what species? To me their drawn faces make them look like a very mean rat.

Some species are endangered, but the hunt is licensed and well controlled. It tends to be the forest and rock dwelling species that are rare, while the open plain species (the ones that are harvested) have increased in numbers due to land clearing.

Roo meat is preferable from an ecological perspecive. Cows damage our fragile soil and are not really well suited. In the long run I would like to see our drier regions switch to roo ranching. There are a few technical difficulties to overcome but a bigger problem is the low demand caused by this sort of thing.

Sheena would you support removal of the ban on the grounds that it benefits our environment and ranching wild animals causes less pain, with no net increase in the amount of meat eaten?

Also I have eaten it like steak and mice and it is fine, though it probably varies a lot. You don't get any fatty bits though.

10 years ago

Actually, Freediver, I understand (to a certain degree) the need to keep some species under control.  I truly do.  The animal lover that I am doesn't like it, but I can be realistic.  It doesn't, however, mean that I feel the need to take part in the killing.  I have before, killed my own meat, but I don't like it, and I won't do it anymore.

Yes, I think they are cute, but I think most animals are cute, in fact I don't recall ever looking at an animal and not being able to find the beauty in it.  If you have a picture, send it or post...of the ones you think are ugly!  I don't have to worry about them here in the states, so I'm sure you've got different issues with the 'roo than I!

If an animal is endangered, it shouldn't be hunted, but if it's not I assume it's 'free game', right?  I wouldn't eat it.

10 years ago

I've looked into hunting them myself but I'm not sure what the rules are. I'm pretty sure you need a license to hunt them commercially (ie to sell the meat). You need a licence for a gun too. Beyond that I don't think most people who hunt for their own food would bother getting a licence even if it was required.

I'm not asking you to eat them or support the consumption of meat. I would like your support for removing the ban on the sale of Kangaroo meat in the US.

10 years ago
Why go to all the trouble to import roo meat here as they are not indiginous? Wouldn't that meat be better given to those hungry in the area after the tsunami? Aren't there enough animals to eat in the US? Unless it is a delicacy to some?
10 years ago
Maria, Good point!  I think we've got a sufficient amount of meat locally.  I also don't know what significance the removal of a ban on the meat would really have, here in the states.  I haven't ever heard of it being 'in demand'...generally our meats of choice are fish, chicken, pork, and beef...all readily available locally.
I think perhaps
10 years ago
That it is the absolute ridiculousness of banning meat because an animal is cute that may bother Freedriver.  The government really shouldn't be controlling what kind of meat we eat without good reason.  I think that is the point.  Laws made for the sake of laws eventually cause unrest and resentment, and so they should.  While I can't say that I personally care if Roo meat is banned or not ( I dont' happen to know either way), I think I understand Freedriver's point.  If not, correct me on it!
my chickens
10 years ago
are extremely cute and spoiled. this doesn't means they don't taste good.
interesting topic
10 years ago

I could not find any national USA ban on roo meat, but apparently it's illegal in California.

From what I read here... http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/kangaroos.html

...the roo meat industry sounds quite competent and humane compared to the US meat industry.  This setup would face a test if expanded to allow roo farming to meet a higher global demand.  Is roo overpopulation such a problem that the govt. is trying to increase meat exports in part as a response?

I'm all in favor of switching from destructive cattle to historically local animals re: ranching and meat production.  Much of the global increase in desertification stems directly from cattle and overgrazing.  Bison here, roos there.

10 years ago

Thanks Joe, so it's just California hey?

We don't have an overpopulation problem. There is just enough demand (mostly in the form of pet meat I think) to fund the harvest of wild roos and require government control to rpevent overharvest. Switching from this to deliberately ranching roos instead of cattle would require a huge increase in demand. I think most of the human consumption demand is in the balkans and Germany. I don't think we export much meat to poorer countries like Indonesia simply because they can't afford it.

There are a few locations where I think hunters wouldn't normally be allowed where there is an overpopulation problem, but that is just a side issue.

10 years ago

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12497819%255E30417,00.html

CSIRO's moo point

March 10, 2005

CATTLE could start to disappear from the outback if graziers were enlisted in the global fight against climate change.

CSIRO ecological economist Mike Young confirmed yesterday that this was one radical scenario being explored by Australian scientists.

In Collapse, Jared Diamond's best selling study of societies under pressure, Australia is singled out as the First World country with the most fragile environment and the most radical thinking about possible solutions.

10 years ago
EMG please check your messages.
10 years ago

This is the petition I created to remove California's ban on roo meat:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/510307417

7 years ago

Woohoo! this is great news. Hope the bill passes. Kangaroos are in no danger of extinction and it's time the drugged up hippies in California informed themselves of the facts. There is a bill before the CA senate to rescind the law.

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=90&pst=535594

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168478179/0

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/sustainability-party.html

7 years ago

First feral cats, then kangaroos and whales. Gee, are there any animals Freediver does not want to see slaughtered?

Maybe he should have lived in the days of the Roman Empire, when they sent animals into the Colosseum to die violently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colosseum

As well as the traditional gladiatorial games, many other public spectacles were held there, such as mock sea battles, animal hunts, executions, re-enactments of famous battles, and dramas based on Classical mythology. (emphasis mine)

Lifting a ban on roo meat is completely pointless of course. We have plenty of meat raised right here in the United States.



This post was modified from its original form on 16 May, 15:11
7 years ago
Sure, if you think of chaining a baby animal to the floor or putting it in a feedlot to wade in it's own excrement as 'raising' it. Go ahead and eat that if you want. If you're lucky the extra hormones will give you larger breasts.
7 years ago
Mine are just the right size, thanks.

Exactly my point, Freediver
7 years ago

You are no better than the rest of us. If we start importing roo meat, then the market forces will also subject kangaroos to that same sort of horrid treatment to increase the supply, just as they've done with cows, pigs and chickens.

Why should we ever subject another species to that sort of thing? Which answers the question Sally raised long ago.


Sally H.
Sally has received 14 new, 1936 total stars from Care2 membersSally has 1 Golden Notes. 

February 25, 2005 4:35 PM

Why is it worse to eat kangaroo meat than to eat any other animal?  (Assuming that they are not actually endangered.)  

Better late than never, I guess.

7 years ago
No Dale, very few animals are naturally suited to that sort of treatment. And even if it did happen, it is not actually making the situation worse as you are just swapping one animal for another. In the meantime you are making the situation far better by choosing free range over factory farms. You are trying to justify the banning of a clearly better meat option on the basis of a very unlikely outcome that it might one day turn into something almost as bad as what you are eating now. It doesn't make sense. People will always have a choice between free range and factory farmed. The best way to get free range is to choose it. Simple.
Freediver, you are a fool.
7 years ago

Most people given the choice will NOT choose free range, period. They will choose what is most plentiful and cheapest. So they will either ignore kangaroo meat or they will eat it only when it is factory farmed. And selective breeding may very well produce a breed of kangaroos that can be adapted for factory farms.

Let kangaroos roam freely and let us subject NONE of them to either hunting (except by dingos), or farming.

I oppose the eating of horse meat for the same reasons.



This post was modified from its original form on 16 May, 17:12
7 years ago

Most people given the choice will NOT choose free range, period. They will choose what is most plentiful and cheapest.

That is not a valid reason for taking away their choice.

So they will either ignore kangaroo meat or they will eat it only when it is factory farmed.

Wrong. Otherwise there would be no need to ban the importation of it. And it is cheap. You don't need to build a factory for starters. Kangaroo is being exported all over the world now. It's our biggest export to Russia. There is no talk about factory farming them. There isn't even talk about farming them. You can't even fence them in. People in Africa don't farm elephants or any of the other myriad of animals to choose from, even though they harvest wild animals. They farm cattle, because cattle are suitable for farming.

I oppose the eating of horse meat for the same reasons.

Do you eat cow meat?

You are still avoiding the basic point. If you oppose factory farming, ban factory farming. Banning wild harvest supports factory farming. Banning wild harvested food because you oppose factory farming is completely absurd.

7 years ago
Are people that starving that they need more species to kill and eat? DISGUSTING With all the land that can go to growing food, we choose to spend more energy in growing flesh. People are starving, and instead we spend more money raising animals for flesh, and high end exotic meats. Think above and beyond the issue, and preferance of taste. Is Your selfishness worth getting the ban lifted.....or better yet pruding such hazard wastes worth it. Do you forget people that there is more to the world than people who want to taste and eat meats?? I live with you in this small world, and I prefer not share your selfish prefrences. What a waste of life.
7 years ago
Freediver.....do they make more of you so I can Factory Farm raise you? Increase profits off of your flesh by injecting your body with chemicals? I would also use your body to test on... proctor and gamble would love the idea... Don't need your free will here Freediver.... I am just gonna take it...Hunt You down. Make a game out of your life. i think it might be lots of fun.
Apart from the fact that Roo is not Kosher,
7 years ago
I don't see any reason not to eat it if it's available. Kangaroos are just large herbivores, like cows (and cows are cute too...).

As for factory farming - as far as I am concerned I think factory farming or any kind of farming that is not ecological in all its details should be penalized, if it was, you'd pretty quickly see farmers, dairy producers, meat producers and vegetable producers change from traditional "factory farming" to ecological farming. This in turn would lower prices on both the "finished products" and the product required for farming...

SB/Dov

7 years ago
Also, please remember that by purchasing beef instead of kangaroo you are causing global warming. Ruminent animals emit a lot of methane, which is far more potent than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Plus, factory farms emit even more via the concetrated pits fermenting poo. You do not help by banning more eco friendly products. You do help by considering what industries your money goes into supporting.
7 years ago
I don't know if there would be a high demand for 'roo meat in the US, but I don't see why it should be banned if they are not endangered or there are no health issues.

Kangaroos as pets?  I don't think so--I've seen films of the boxing matches they have with one another.  Nothing is coming close to me that can kick that hard!

Kris...
7 years ago



SB/Dov
7 years ago
People do keep orphaned ones as pets, but they never seem to hang onto fully grown ones. I guess they just hop away. You can never get close to wild ones. I heard of a tourist that trapped one in a gully once and got disembowled with one kick. That seems to be a common theme among our native animals. Casowaries kill a lot of dogs that way.
7 years ago
Those front claws are extremely sharp and they go straight for the eyes.
7 years ago

All I'm saying is that there is no good reason to subject one more species to the indignity of factory farming, which indeed WILL happen to kangaroos eventually if the ban on their meat is lifted in most parts of the world, and people are encouraged to eat it as an alternative to cow, pig, and chicken meat. The claim that kangaroo meat from the wild is somehow better for us is a bogus sell that I simply refuse to buy. It won't come from the wild forever, and a way will indeed be found to farm kangaroos. It's been done already to ostriches.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/V6200T/v6200T02.htm

7 years ago
You have no way of knowing if that will happen, Dale. 


7 years ago

Also, in order to hunt the wild kangaroos, the hunters would have to compete with the dingos that normally prey in them, so they would kill off many of the dingos too.

So in any case, the importation and consumption of kangaroo meat is simply immoral. I'll stick to the factory farmed cow, pig, and chicken meat, which I consider the lesser of the evils, thank you very much!

7 years ago

You have no way of knowing if that will happen, Dale. 

Yes, and it certainly will not happen if the ban on roo meat is kept intact forever. I won't accept that risk that it might happen, period.

7 years ago
 It is not your decision to make.  
7 years ago
In short, I completely oppose the harvesting of wild animals around the world and want it stopped, period. It's about as anti-environmental as it gets, despite Freediver's lame rationalisations to the contrary.
7 years ago
You think it's the lesser of two evils because there is a small risk that kangaroo meat will one day be nearly as bad as what you eat now? That doesn't make sense. Just because you eat roo meat now doesn't mean you have to eat factory farmed roo meat in the future. People can choose between free range and factory farmed beef. If you think factory farming is bad, eat free range meat. At the moment you are eating factory farmed meat and making senseless excuses to ban free range meat. Supporting a ban on roo meat while financially supporting factory farming is a blatant double standard. It is hypocrisy.
7 years ago

Wait a minute, you think that if California bas roo meat, then they definitely won't be farmed, but if they remove the ban, they definitely will be farmed? That doesn't make sense. The decision to farm or not will not be based on Californian laws. It will be based on practical problems that prevent the farming of kangaroos.

Also, you say you oppose all wild harvest on the grounds that it is bad for the environment, yet you financially support factory farming, which is even worse on all counts. Another double standard.

7 years ago

Say what you want, Freediver, I will not eat roo meat or use any products that came from wild animals. There is no double standard here because I know human nature too well to not forsee what will happen if we keep harvesting more and more wild or free range animals. Cows, chickens, and pigs were once "free range" animals as well, of course. In essence, you are suggesting that the entire world of wild animals become man's ultimate farm to use as we please.

How sickening!



This post was modified from its original form on 16 May, 20:48
7 years ago
 By "wild harvest" what exactly do you mean? 

If you are referring to hunting, you could not be more wrong. 

If there were no deer season here, we would be overrun with them.  Deer are prolific eaters and can strip vegetation so it does not regrow--that and they consume resources that could be used by many other species.  So if you have a surplus population of deer, for example, this is NOT good for the environment--overpopulation of any species is actually bad for the environment, not good. 

Of course overhunting is not a good thing either but I do not think that is what FD is trying to push here.  I think he is pushing for a sustainable harvest of kangaroos.  If you get the 'roos back down to a population that can be sustained where they live, with the available resources, then this is good for both the 'roos as species, and for the environment as a whole. 

If we are talking about free range vs. factory farmed--free range is infinitely better quality than anything you will ever get through factory farm animals.  Better living conditions, better diet, better quality meat.  I buy my eggs from hens that are cage-free, and the eggs actually have more nutrients in them, the yolks are a nice orange colour rather than a pale yellow you see in most store-bought eggs, and they have a richer taste. 

The same goes for free range meat vs. factory farmed meat.  Not only is it more "humane" it is simply better quality. 
7 years ago

If there were no deer season here, we would be overrun with them.  Deer are prolific eaters and can strip vegetation so it does not regrow--that and they consume resources that could be used by many other species.  So if you have a surplus population of deer, for example, this is NOT good for the environment--overpopulation of any species is actually bad for the environment, not good. 

Two words, Cheryl: NO WOLVES!

Because we killed them off or drove them away long ago out of fear they would kill our "free range" livestock in North America. The situation you described is our fault. And the same thing happens to dingos in Australia. Why? Because they can prey on "free range" livestock there too.

7 years ago
There are no wolves here.  The only wolves in Michigan are in the northern part of the state, and they do not bother livestock, as there is plenty of prey to be had, even with hunters there is more than enough for them. 

So because it is "our fault" we should continue to make mistakes? 


7 years ago

Cheryl, you and Freediver are incredibly naive if you think that in a free market system ways will not be found by large corporations to take various species of animals from the wild including kangaroos, subject them to selective breeding (perhaps even genetic engineering) for several decades or centuries, and turn them into twisted charicatures of themselves to serve our needs. They will first be subected to a trasitional period of "free range" farming because in their wild forms they can indeed not be factory farmed, but that will not last forever. In a free marker economy, anything that is bought and sold, including animal products, are subject to methods that will maximise profits for the sellers at a low price for the buyers. That's exactly what factory faming is for.

Those who favor wild harvesting or "free range" farming stupidly assume that what is done to kangaroos or ostriches today will never change. There is simply no basis whatsoever for that assumption. If factory farming happened to cows and pigs, it can happen to most other animals. I won't stand for that. The reason is simple: Most people don't give a damn where their food comes from, as long as it's cheap. The minority that do care will never have as much influence on the economy as the apathetic majority or factory farming would never have been established in the first place.

7 years ago
Can you make an argument without resorting to personal attack or well poisoning?

I am not naive, and I do not "stupidly assume" anything.  I know of what I write. Kindly drop said references and stick to the argument.


This post was modified from its original form on 16 May, 21:14
7 years ago
It wouldn't surprize me if a century from now kangaroo meat was still being promoted as a wholesome environmental alternative to cow, chicken and pig meat, even after the transition of kangaroos to factory farming is complete. Old assumptions are hard to shake. Many people don't even know how factory farms really operate, assuming that all farming is done the old fashioned way, nor do they really care. I do know and care and will stubbornly oppose any further attempts to add to the list of animal species we humans have domesticated and exploited for our gain. Enough is enough!
7 years ago

Cheryl, I would have been nicer to you a few months ago, even over this matter, but I see no reason to treat you with kid gloves now.

I sincerely consider your position and Freediver's as lacking in real discernment. If pointing that out bothers you, so be it.

It's just that I consider human nature to be corrupt and in a totally free market the worst aspects of humanity come up along with the best. Suppressing the importation and sale of roo meat is the only sure way to prevent what I have described, period.



This post was modified from its original form on 16 May, 21:25
7 years ago

erm... i think one of the main points that freediver is making is that not all animals are even suited/amenable to be factory farmed, and kangaroos are one of them. just like some fishes just can't be farmed successfully, and some can. so if the kangaroos are living in areas that aren't suited for large-scale farming (agriculture or meat-raising) anyway, you might as well hunt some if the breeding rate is much higher than natural attrition, and the excess would die anyway when there's pressure due to insufficient food resources.

this is, of course, separate from one's own personal conviction or preference about eating animals in general, or kangaroos specifically. i think emotional reasons need to be separated when discussing a cost/benefit policy decision, because not everybody is similarly emotional about the same things, and policy has to suit the wider population.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/572305468/375688

link relevant to the discussion.

7 years ago

 I know you can't buy Kangaroo boots in California.

7 years ago

'I heard of a tourist that trapped one in a gully once and got disembowled with one kick.'


I just saw on TV how they spar with each other using their lower legs in a kick-boxing fashion with the intention of dis-enboweling.

One would expect that in approaching one that there would be a danger of that happening. Those Wallabee are cute, but it isn't a good idea to pet or touch wild animals. I once saw a Screech Owl at an Indian festival and that was cool. They are smallish. One needs a license to own one but if one wanted to take care of a rodent infestation...

It might make a good guard owl, too!

There was also a Wolf-dog there, even though I think they are actually illegal in Georgia. I said, 'Is that a Wolf-dog?'

And the old Indian smiled and replied, 'You know what she is,' turning his head in a mused and wise way.


7 years ago

Wild-caught vs. farmed is not always an easy decision, but in general, it seems to me that culling a few animals from the wild is not any more harmful in the long run than modern farming practices are, and perhaps less so. 

Farming salmon, for example,  has caused a lot of problems and most people geared toward eating wisely recommend eating wild-caught salmon.  And I have smelled the chicken gulags and the factory hog farms--you should visit one sometime.

There are still some farming and ranching practices that are vastly superior to the "factory farms."  I try to buy locally raised organic beef and poultry when I can find them, and eggs from free-ranging chickens when I can afford them.  I have enjoyed buffalo meat, which is farmed locally here.  I like to get the local products so that if I want, I can actually visit the farming operation and see it for myself.  I have also eaten venison given to me by local hunters.

I don't really get the distinction between killing a nonendangered animal in the wild to eat it and killing it on the kill floor of a slaughterhouse to eat it.  It's still killing an animal to eat it.  Actually, it seems a bit more honest to me to hunt the meat one eats oneself, though I don't do that either.

But I also am still working on cutting down on my use of meat in general, so that I don't have these issues to deal with.



This post was modified from its original form on 17 May, 6:19

7 years ago
Why should it be banned?
7 years ago
t is interesting that outlets that sell kangaroo meat, and the industry, desperately try to defend the kangaroo massacre, rather than admit that these wild animals are killed purely for money. Even State Governments in Australia concede that the huge numbers killed now has nothing to do with damage mitigation or population control; it is simply a profit making exercise. In 1984 the Queensland Government added the following statement to its kangaroo management programme: “It is important to recognise that while the kangaroo industry was originally a response to the past problem caused by these animals, it has now come to exist in its own right as the user of a renewable natural resource and thus serves its own interests.” Of course referring to living, feeling creatures as ‘renewable resources’ is meant to soften the reality of what it really means - the wholesale slaughter of the planet’s wildlife. The Queensland admission that commercial killing is NOT a tool for management has been extended to other states. The Tasmania, New South Wales and Western Australian Governments all openly promote the commercial species of kangaroo and wallaby as a ‘renewable resource’ which should be shot regardless of whether the animals are perceived to cause damage or not. The Australian Wildlife Protection Council says: “Kangaroos are killed for profit rather than in response to damage mitigation. The huge increase in the numbers killed since the 1970s has ensured profits but conflicts with the traditional objectives for which the kangaroo industry has gained public tolerance. “Most Australians are not aware of this recent change in official policy which erodes the status of the kangaroo to that of a mere commodity.”
7 years ago
One of the most disingenuous statements the sellers of kangaroo meat make is that the commercial killing of kangaroos ‘protects the environment’. The kangaroo industry is environmentally unfriendly! Night after night shooters criss cross the fragile outback terrain, causing erosion, trampling the native vegetation and disturbing (crushing and sometimes killing) the small ground dwelling native species (many of which are endangered). They kill and gut millions of kangaroos, leaving their remains to feed feral animals, thus further skewing the ecology of the outback. When I was in Australia in March 1998, I had a TV debate with John Kelly, director of a possum abattoir in Tasmania and spokesperson for the kangaroo industry. He argued that kangaroos needed to be killed to protect the environment and that kangaroos were incapable of controlling their own numbers. (In fact, female Red Kangaroos stop reproducing (anoestrus) during prolonged poor conditions.) He spoke of the kangaroos as if they were some alien species destroying everything in their path. (See section Further Contradictions from the Kangaroo Industry on page 24.) I pointed out that the truth was the opposite - as Australian ecologist Bryan Walters says: “The kangaroo does not destroy Australia's environment - it is an integral part of that environment and lives in harmony with it.” Of course the kangaroo is the original resident of Australia. They are unique to Australia and are perfectly adapted to live within that magnificent country’s harsh climate and sensitive environment. The earliest ancestors of kangaroos evolved about 50 millions years ago; by about 25 million years ago the evolution of the macropoids was well under way and by four to five million years ago the first species clearly related to the modern Grey Kangaroos and Wallaroos appeared. The Red Kangaroo is the most recently evolved kangaroo. Its fossil record goes back up to two million years ago and its evolution coincides with the spread of the deserts in Australia. (7) The Aborigines entered Australia 40 to 60,000 years ago; the Europeans 210 years ago. The environment of Australia has been decimated over the past 150 years. One guess as to which species is to blame.
7 years ago
Despite the fact that the kangaroo does not compete with livestock for food, the kangaroo has been labelled a pest by farmers which gives them a good excuse to make money from killing them. The Government has a greater imperative to placate the farming lobby than protect wildlife because of its political leverage. This is because historically, Australia’s economic base was built through the agricultural and pastoral sectors. However, since the 1950s other sectors in the economy have become the dominant players. The rural sector now accounts for only 4 per cent of Australia’s gross domestic product. Despite its minimal contribution, the rural sector still has considerable political power, as the primary support-base for conservative governments and as a critical force in marginal seats for labour governments. Neither have wanted to jeopardise its constituency for wildlife. Currently the push from the Australian Government is to commercialise wildlife - plugging the self evident lie that killing kangaroos protects them! The Nature Conservation Council of New South Wales, the umbrella organisation for more than 100 conservation, environmental protection and scientific societies, has called on the Government to “refrain from legislating or otherwise enabling the commercialisation and consumptive use of certain types of wild fauna (including kangaroos and all other mammals)”. It also opposes the farming of native animals and has called for a ban on the export of all kangaroo and wallaby products. The NCC does not believe the kangaroo industry - whether shooting animals in the wild or farming wildlife - to be ecologically sustainable (22).
7 years ago

than admit that these wild animals are killed purely for money

So what? It's not that they don't admit it. It's just that it is so obvious.

Even State Governments in Australia concede that the huge numbers killed now has nothing to do with damage mitigation or population control; it is simply a profit making exercise.

Duh. It's also a sustainable harvest of a more eco friendly meat.

“Kangaroos are killed for profit rather than in response to damage mitigation. The huge increase in the numbers killed since the 1970s has ensured profits but conflicts with the traditional objectives for which the kangaroo industry has gained public tolerance.

“Most Australians are not aware of this recent change in official policy which erodes the status of the kangaroo to that of a mere commodity.” 

Yes they are. They just don't care.

One of the most disingenuous statements the sellers of kangaroo meat make is that the commercial killing of kangaroos ‘protects the environment’.

This is correct. Kangaroo meat is far better for the environment. Cows emit methane a powerful greenhouse gas. Roos Don't. Cows are inappropriate for a fragile soils and do huge amounts of damage to our fragile ecosystem. Roos don't. That is why people support roo harvesting.

Despite the fact that the kangaroo does not compete with livestock for food

Complete BS. what do you think they eat, flowers?

I don't believe this at all.
7 years ago

This is correct. Kangaroo meat is far better for the environment. Cows emit methane a powerful greenhouse gas. Roos Don't. Cows are inappropriate for a fragile soils and do huge amounts of damage to our fragile ecosystem. Roos don't. That is why people support roo harvesting.

Yes, and that questionable mythology will be a powerful motivator (or excuse, rather) for companies to produce a breed a kangaroo that will be suitable for factory farming. In the factory farms, the kangaroos will be under no threat from dingos, of course, just as cows in those factory farms are not threatened by wolves now.

Let's assume that kangaroos eat the same grass as cows do. This indicates that roos in large concentrations will have as destructive effect on the environment as cows do in simular concentrations. ALL animals emit waste, of course! Methane is not the only pollutant that animals may produce.



This post was modified from its original form on 17 May, 23:50
7 years ago

In the factory farms, the kangaroos will be under no threat from dingos, of course, just as cows in those factory farms are not threatened by wolves now.

Dale, dingoes are not a serious threat to anything except small children.  They are not wolves. They certainly don't justify trying to farm an animal that cannot be farmed. You have absolutely no grasp of the economics of the situation. Breeding suitable varieties is not as easy as you think. Most domestic animals are very similar to their wild cousins, with dog varieties being the only notable exception. The same rule applies to plants, with the exception of corn, which the Native Indians had little choice with because there was nothing better on offer.

Let's assume that kangaroos eat the same grass as cows do.

Thank you.

This indicates that roos in large concentrations will have as destructive effect on the environment as cows do in simular concentrations.

No it won't. You just don't understand the environmental situation. Cows aren't bad for the environment because they eat grass. Cows are bad for the environment because the burp and fart huge quantities of methane, because their hard hooves damage fragile soil and creek banks, because they rip grass out by the roots, etc. They are not native. Kangaroos are. According to Jared Diamond one of the biggest sustainability issues facing Australia is our reluctance to let go of European agricultural practices in a land that simply cannot handle it. These stupid Californian laws based on an equally questionalbe cultural prejudice are not helping the situation, and nor are you by saying that because you don't like factory farming you will eat factory farmed beef but not free range roo. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

ALL animals emit waste, of course! Methane is not the only pollutant that animals may produce.

Not waste Dale, fertiliser. It is only waste in those disgusting factory farms where you get your meat from. In the wild, where animals should be raised, it is just part of a natural cycle.

FD,
7 years ago
Do you eat beef?
Freediver, you are a fraud
7 years ago

None of the statements you just made in response to my points rings true to me. They come across as lame excuses, not valid reasons to hunt kangaroos and eat more of their meat. And dingos DO eat kangaroos occationally. And stop saying kangaroos cannot be farmed. That's nonsense, for even now they can be kept in zoos, can't they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingo

Wild dingoes prey on a variety of animals, mostly small or medium-sized animals, but also larger herbivores if need be. They are opportunistic carnivores, taking prey ranging in size from lizards and small rodents up to sheep and kangaroos.

Seriously, if you are really so concerned about protecting Australia's ecosystem, why don't you promote the eating of rabbit meat instead of kangaroo meat? Rabbits were introduced to Australia in the 19th Century and grew to plague proportions in a matter of decades. Their meat can also be eaten and they can also be farmed. If Australians would eat feral rabbit meat and leave the wild kangaroos alone, then you'd have a situation that would make far better sense. Promoting the importation and consumption of kangaroo meat strikes me as insane, period.

As for cows damaging the environment, what about all the wild species of bovine animals around the world? Millions of them must be as SERIOUS a threat to the environment as the factory farmed cows, according to your insane brand of logic.

7 years ago

Not waste Dale, fertiliser. It is only waste in those disgusting factory farms where you get your meat from. In the wild, where animals should be raised, it is just part of a natural cycle.

So cow waste from factory farms cannot be used as fertilizer? What's the difference between waste from wild bovine animals, and waste from domesticated cows?

It just occured to me that because of the methane in it, cow dung can be used as a fuel source, thus lessening our dependence on oil and other fossil fuels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas

Biogas is usually produced using agricultural waste materials, such as otherwise unusable parts of plants and manure. Biogas can also be produced by separating organic materials from waste that otherwise goes to landfills. This is more efficient than just capturing the landfill gas it produces. Using materials that would otherwise generate no income, or even cost money to get rid of, improves the profitability and energy balance of biogas production.

Anaerobic lagoons are used to produce biogas from manure, while biogas reactors can be used for manure or plant parts. Like landfill gas, biogas is mostly methane and carbon dioxide, with small amounts of nitrogen, oxygen and hydrogen. However, with the exception of pesticides, there are usually lower levels of contaminants.

7 years ago

Do you eat beef?

Yes.

They come across as lame excuses, not valid reasons to hunt kangaroos and eat more of their meat.

Dale, supporting a ban on roo meat because you oppose factory farming is a lame excuse, especially if you eat factory farmed meat. If you really opposed factory farming you wouldn't buy factory farmed meat. You support imposing legal restrictions which you are not prepared to accept for yourself.

And dingos DO eat kangaroos occationally.

But they aren't a serious threat to them.

And stop saying kangaroos cannot be farmed. That's nonsense, for even now they can be kept in zoos, can't they?

The reasons they cannot be farmed are economic.

Seriously, if you are really so concerned about protecting Australia's ecosystem, why don't you promote the eating of rabbit meat instead of kangaroo meat?

I do, but no-one is trying to ban rabbit meat. If there was a ban on rabbit meat I would have a petition up for that too.

As for cows damaging the environment, what about all the wild species of bovine animals around the world?

Dale, I said our fragile environment. Note that the argument was specific to the Australian landscape.

So cow waste from factory farms cannot be used as fertilizer? What's the difference between waste from wild bovine animals, and waste from domesticated cows?

One is free fertiliser, the other is a toxic waste problem that ends up in your groundwater (in the factory farm scenario anyway).

7 years ago

Dale, think of the waste problem this way (well, this might be easier for me since I grew up in semi-rural Kansas and have more recently actually seen a "factory farm" operation...)

You can run through a pasture where a lot of cattle have been roaming around eating/excreting without stepping in a cow pie, with just a little caution.

You can't possibly run through a factory farm's waste lagoon.

You can't even breathe the air within a reasonable distance of it.



This post was modified from its original form on 20 May, 5:19

Let's get one thing straight
7 years ago

I never said that I was personally in favor of factory farms for any animal species, and I would very much like to see them outlawed everywhere, but let's be REALISTIC, they are here because in a free market the tendency is for products of any kind, including meats, to be produced as quickly and cheaply as possible. If you ban factory farms, then the price of meat will increase dramatically, and that may indeed give wild harvested meat more appeal to the public, but that would also result in all sorts of economic disruptions, since most fast food restaurants sell vast quantities of cheap meat. If most of them go out of business, the result would be an economic DEPRESSION! And a government policy that results in depression would cause the officials favoring it to be quickly voted out of office. Those in power now know this, so factory farms are not likely to be banned without a vast reeducation of the public, with most people becoming vegetarian, not eating even wild harvested meat at all.

Adding wild harvested meat of exotic species to our species menu while factory farm produced meat is still available is not the solution, for not enough people will eat the former to make a real difference. You must ban the factory farms and their products FIRST! Then be prepared for the consequences.

If you really opposed factory farming you wouldn't buy factory farmed meat. You support imposing legal restrictions which you are not prepared to accept for yourself.

Have you ever bought meat in America, Freediver? They don't lable meat here as factory farmed, free ranged, or wild harvested at all! As far as I know, I don't have a choice!

But [dingos] aren't a serious threat to [kangaroos].

True, which is why I said earlier dingos should be allowed to hunt kangaroos, BUT NOT HUMANS! Remember the passenger pigeon?

The reasons [kangaroos] cannot be farmed are economic.

I guess it's because the largest species hop so high that it would be too expensive to build fences to keep those roos penned up. But not all kangaroos are high hoppers. Some actually live in trees with short legs and limited hopping ability and many, even as ground dwellers, are much smaller (known as wallabys). Perhaps these could be farmed. In any case, if you promote the wild kangaroo meat based on the premise that its environmentally better for us than cow, chicken, and pig meat from factory farms, and millions of people around the world accept that claim and begin demanding it, then one of two things will happen: Either they will find it too expensive(because the supply is limited), or to increase the supply to lower the price the roo hunters will kill so many that eventually the species of kangaroos will become EXTINCT!

No, the only way your scheme will work, Freediver, is if roos could be farmed to increase the supply. If they can't, the whole enterprise is doomed to fail to make a significant impact on the environment, period.

You have no case.

7 years ago
Address Kris' post concerning manure from factory farms.  She is spot on. 

Meat here is generally labeled because there has been a boom in organic/free range sales.   There are also the various "health stores" one can go to if you want to find such meat. 

Eggs from cage free chickens are readily available at stores now.  They cost more but they taste better, have more nutrients, and the animals are not treated inhumanely. 

As per your other claim.  Chicken produced by Tyson, for example, is factory farmed.  You can check online to read about the practices of the different companies you can commonly find at stores.  

Using big font does not add any weight to your side of the argument. 


Thank you, Cheryl
7 years ago

Address Kris' post concerning manure from factory farms.  She is spot on.

Yes, I noticed that. Such huge pools of animals waste are a health hazard and a damn good reason to impose stricter regulations on the meat industries. It would be better to truck that waste away immediately and spread them over fields that are currently fallow, resulting in better crop yields the following year.

Meat here is generally labeled because there has been a boom in organic/free range sales.   There are also the various "health stores" one can go to if you want to find such meat.

Yes, but the corporate dominated media hardly ever advertises such things.

Eggs from cage free chickens are readily available at stores now.  They cost more but they taste better, have more nutrients, and the animals are not treated inhumanely.

Then we should insist that the egg sellers embrace a strict policy of "truth in advertising". The eggs from uncaged chickens should be clearly labled. I'd buy them!

Using big font does not add any weight to your side of the argument.

I know that, but I'm angry. With me, what you see is what you get, so when I'm angry, I shout. As my wife says when she's upset, "Well excuse me for living!"

7 years ago
The California bill lifts the ban non-endangered kangaroo meat only conditionally: that "the commercial harvest of kangaroos in any future year will not exceed the official quota established for 2007."

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_880&sess=CUR&house=B

The senate committee analysis gives some addititional interesting background information on both sides of the issue.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_0851-0900/sb_880_cfa_20070504_165406_sen_comm.html
7 years ago

Petition to remove California's ban on kangaroo meat:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/510307417

More info on the pending legislation:
 
http://ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/kangaroo-law.html

The Sustainability Party of Australia supports this petition:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/sustainability-party.html

More information, discussion:

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1179303108

The Kangaroo and the Usurper:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/funny/kangaroo-usurper.html

7 years ago
If you have ever eaten at a 'Jack in the Box' in Colorado you have probably eaten roo meat. I believe that they were all closed down for this reason? Maybe it was just Rumor, but it didn't go over very well with the 'fast food' public. Who knew???
Anonymous
7 years ago
I wondered what happened. I used to love jack in the box. Their burgers were so much better. I will have to see if i can get some roo meat. Bisen is my fave right now. Readily available around here.
7 years ago
The bill has been passed on the senate.
Clarification
7 years ago
Earlier, I mentioned the possibility of rabbit hunting in Australia instead of kangaroo hunting. Well, only in Australia should wild rabbits be controlled by humans. Natural predators do it quite well everywhere else in the world. And kangaroos need not be hunted at ALL. We humans need to get off the primitive and barbaric hunting fetish that Freediver champions, because standard methods of agriculture (NOT factory farms, which are a serious health hazard) can provide for almost everything we need and industrial manufacturing can provide the rest. There are only two ways we can have an indefinitly sustainable existence as a civilized species on Earth: Have most people adopt a strict vegetarian diet, and reduce our world population to much less than the current number of over six billion. One or the other, maybe even both, but adopting new sources of meat and continuing to hunt wild animals for either fun or profit is no long term solution. It will only make things WORSE!
7 years ago
So, Dale, do you think the fish we eat should come from fish farms? Would you ban the catching and selling of wild fish?
Good question, Lulu!
7 years ago

Various proposals have been made to establish farms to raise fish and other sea creatures in. Recent reports indicate that wild fish stocks in the world are in danger of collapse, so perhaps that will stimulate more research into farming fish. Until then, he may have to continue catching wild fish, but at a greatly reduced level.

My earlier point was that if we don't have to do something, we shouldn't insist on doing it for sport or profit. Our ancestors drove many animal species to extinction because of such attitudes and I have no faith in people's ability to regulate themselves on such matters. Greed always is likely to raise its ugly head in such matters.

7 years ago
So if there is no need to factory farm fish, we shouldn't do it? We should catch wild fish instead?
7 years ago
Does anyone know what is happening with this bill at the moment? When will the final decision be made?
7 years ago
The bill has passed the California Senate and is now being considered in the Assembly. 

You can see a reasonably up-to-date status (lagging by maybe a day or two)  by clicking on the first link I provided in my May 21 post.  From there you can even subscribe to get email alerts whenever something in the legislative status changes for that bill (most alerts will be for non-interesting changes).

If the bill becomes law this year (passes Senate, Assembly and signed by governor), that will probably happen in September or October.  It could get killed earlier and it could be put on hold until next year.

California has legalised kangaroo products
6 years ago

California has legalised kangaroo products, but there has been a media blackout. It is not showing up on google. Please note this news article and help get the word out:

http://www.care2.com/news/member/177762681/718827

More info:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1203549919/4#4

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/kangaroo-law.html

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1179303108

The successful petition:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/510307417

Next target: Why we should allow whaling:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168478179

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