I haven't been able properly to address the group and its growing body of topics for some time now. I think I'll take a stab at trying to say some things that may contribute to the dialogue or, at least, let you all know that I still am out there and breathing!

I have been thinking a great deal about your question, Melissa, that our "past lives are in our DNA." My gut reaction at first was a simple "no, I don't think so." Now, whenever I have reactions like that in topics that are as thoughtful as this, I pull back and allow myself time to reconsider. The first thing I realized is that I couldn't find a link between heredity (the DNA) and this strange "soul" entity that seemed to inhabit the person I call "me" now and these other "me's" from a forgotten past. I just happen to have green eyes, which I inherited from mother, grandparent, etc. I just can't see the thing I call "me" coming down to me in the same way. Besides, if "I-ness" is inherited via DNA, then our past lives could only come from our genetic ancestors. Even the small body of evidence we have so far in our group discussions seems to look further than that. I think I'll leave your question at that, and see if you or someone else would like to contribute more.

As far as piano playing, I'll mention that, although I'm classically trained, I play jazz, newage, pop, classical, .... Just about every kind of music that I like, which is just about everything except country western and rap (never have been able to get used to the style). The easiest things to play? I don't know exactly. I don't know if I have a natural style, although I take fairly quickly to newage and ambient music. When I improvise, I tend to drift into an experimental or ambient style. I have given it a lot of thought, and I can't seem to come up with anything more concrete than that.

I haven't heard from anyone for a couple of days. I hope all goes well for all of you. Holiday overwork has been taking its toll on me, but it's been fun. Someday I'll figure out what the heck I'm running around so much for!

You've opened some doors for thought here, Robert and while reading your post my mind was literally running!  Re the me or I-ness via dna, um...I am thinking that who I am is connected somehow to my spirit, and that wouldn't be dna related I don't believe, although there may be certain aspects of "me" that are.  My daughter's father absolutely hates peas, and my daughter hates peas.  It's something to think about.

The subject of music is a very interesting one.  My father happens to be a C&W Singer and song writer, so I was exposed to that influence even before my birth!  Yet even as an infant I would sit and drum on objects.  They would joke and say "She's going to be a drummer" until they realized I was drumming to a rhythm all my own that had nothing to do with any music they were interested in.  I would put things in my ears to keep external noise out and drum in rhythm with my heartbeat.  I was also drawn to Big Band music, Bunny Barrigan "I can't Get Started" heard accidently one day (I don't remember where) suddenly became a favorite and I remembered the words immediately and sang them constantly, humming the tune as if I had always known it.  An upstairs neighbour played "Der Fleidermaus" on the turntable,  I could heard it from our apartment.  I was four or five years old,  walked out of our apartment, up the stairs, and sat down outside his door.  Needless to say I gave everyone a fright, but there I sat outside his door, quite content listening to the composition. 

I play no instruments except a personal drum, nor do I sing well, or in public. 

I don't know where this post is going, but I have been on the verge of writing it for at least a day now. I can't get your childhood drumming out of my head, Dreamsinger. I believe that something pretty fundamental is inside that memory. I was especially struck by your mentioning that you put stuff in your ear to block out external noises. It really sounds as if you were trying to reconnect with something that your current world only hinted at but which ultimately hindered you as you searched for it. Almost as if you were forced to block out the reminder that the present was pushing on you so that you could drag out of the past the real memory that drove you (back) to the drums. That's the message I'm hearing from you; that you felt like drums were calling you and you were trying to reconnect with your relationship to them.

Let me know what you think.

Robert

Hello all, I just joined the group. I have one memory that I first had when I was around 12 years old or so. I never understood it. It didn't fit in my life. I always feared it would happen to me in the future but it makes so much since that it would be a past life. I don't wan't to go into detail about it because its a very dark memory. But if this did happen to me it would explain some fears I have that most people don't have.

Emily

I really believe that a lot of our fears stem from something that has happened in the past...sight, sounds and smells can bring memories to the present moment.

For instance a little girl in my daughters 'learn to swim' group (quite a few years ago) just couldn't bring herself to put her head under water. She had a real fear about it. It made me think that she possibly had experienced death from drowning, which would lead to extreme fear of being under water. None of the other children had that problem.

Some people are terrified of leaving their home...any ideas what that could be about?

Emily, your post has triggered quite a bit of thought for me. First, I want to say that I respect your decision not to share your memory with the group. What you have said, I think, is enough to allow me (and others, I'm sure) to connect with the experience of a memory that doesn't "fit in my life," as you aptly put it. Although many phobias result from a child experiencing an event or situation far beyond the child's ability to mentally process and integrate the experience, I think you may be on to something. Some fears really do seem to be relics of a somewhen, somewho else.

As Melissa pointed out, fear of water that really has no basis in a present life experience could be one of these relic memories of a tragic event in a previous life. Bad memories get seriously imprinted into memory as a survival trait. If you fail to remember the experience of how much it hurt when you burned your hand on the stove, you would not be mentally conditioned to avoid that behaviour in the future. In the sense of your story, and assuming for the moment that we are dealing with a past life memory, a particularly strong and seemingly irrational response to a situation or a memory that is filled with foreboding but for no apparent reason, these could be on the past life level the same kind of memory imprinting that goes on for us here in this life when we burn our hand on the stove.

How do you feel about this, Emily?

I was also sent into a flurry of thought concerning your remark, Melissa, about agoraphobia. Purely on the hypothetical level, I can imagine someone who, in a past life, was trampled to death underfoot in a crowd having, in this life, a fear of leaving the safety of home. It certainly would seem like an irrational fear, but the nagging and persistent imprinting of that prior death experience would cause a reflexive withdrawal from anything that resembled it.

For now, enough said. I'll let our collective unconcious stew on this for a while now.

Robert

This was the original topic for this group. I think there is still lots to say in this area; Gay has been especially fruitful with memories that are "hers yet not hers." I want you all to have another opportunity to flavor your sharing, if you'd like, in this topic, so I have reactivated it. You probably don't need to read every post in it; simply start from scratch and your own experience.

Robert

I was being a spider, searching the web and found an interesting story...the link below, and decided to pull up a thread from the past.

For all members who have had memories, not your own. Post it here!

http://www.geohanover.com/docs/cw1.htm

I WAS IN THE CIVIL WAR
by Robert M. Stone, M.S.

The concept of reincarnation had always intrigued me since I first read about it in Jane Robert's, The Seth Material in 1972. I did a great deal of reading that summer but nothing I read allowed me to explore the topic personally. It wasn't until 1976, when I was a Graduate Student that I was told about Leslie Lecron's, Self-Hypnotism, It's Use in Daily Living by a fellow Graduate Student that the tools, subconscious communication and hypnosis, presented themselves. I read all the books the University had on hypnosis but they weren't as helpful as Lecron's. Using his techniques, a friend and I started trying to track down our previous existence's. The pendulum made it simple to start gathering information on previous lives. Using the questioning techniques suggested by Lecron, we quickly began to pin down details of other lives, some of which we had shared together.

My friend had a flare for being hypnotized and we gathered information in this manner. But a side-effect that we discovered in using the pendulum to ask the subconscious questions about past lives was that we began to have past life dreams. At various times, both my friend and I would have the same sort of dream with the same details. When this began to happen, I realized that I had several of these types of dreams at various points in my childhood. I had never understood the significance of them until, as an adult exploring reincarnation, the same thing happened. The most vivid dream I had I still remember after all these years. The dream was in full color with all the senses involved.

It was early morning, almost dawn. There was a low ground fog. There was a camp with tents and stacked rifles. Men were beginning to stir. My attention was drawn to a tall man with white blond hair shoulder length. He had on his pants and boots but had not put on his tunic. This was a Union Army camp. I quickly realized that the tall man was me. Although he was about 5 inches taller than I am and I've never had should length hair. Also, my hair is brown. It looked like the preparations for breakfast were beginning with coffee pots on stones around the campfires.

The camp appeared to be on the edge of a large cornfield. The air was chilly and damp. I noticed that I was picking up glimpses of the world through his eyes. He was standing by a campfire looking out over the cornfield. As it began to get light, he noticed that there was a huge gray line at the other edge of the cornfield with a few dots of crimson breaking up the line. At the same time he could see the line, there was a massive shout and the line began to surge forward. The shout is hard to describe. It was almost a continuous drone. The trademark Confederate battle cry. I had never seen nor heard anything like it. There is a serious difference between being in the middle of something like that as opposed to watching it on a movie or television. There is no comparison.

When the line was set in motion, it was ME looking at it trying to assess the situation. Everyone was scrambling to move as this camp was in no way defensible and would be quickly overrun. I found myself having a moral dilemma. Should I escape or try to fight. I quickly decided that getting killed would serve no purpose and ordered a retreat. We headed for the river. There was this steep ravine that led down to the river and we stumbled down it. The river was gigantic. We swam across it. As this was happening, my current consciousness was watching somewhat confused. So I heard myself yell out, "Where is this?" and the answer came back like an echo, "SHILOH."

I wasn't familiar with Shiloh so I looked it up at the University library and discovered it was a Civil War battle in April of 1862. That the Confederate forces had launched a massive, SURPRISE attack on the Union forces. Well, I can personally vouch for that ! Twelve years after the dream, I decided to go to Shiloh. It was in a part of Tennessee that I had never been to. Of course, the battlefield is now a National Park. To make a very long story short, I had a number of flashback memories surface on the trip to Shiloh. The next day when I went to the park, I found the field of my dream. Then in moving around the park, I discovered that side of the river had a high cliff, at least 75-100 feet high. The river of course, was the Tennessee and it was wide as the Mississippi at that point.

In driving around the service road, I came to some Indian mounds that overlooked the river. I stopped and climbed them to look at the river. When I returned to the car, I looked down the road which looked straight from my vantage point and said, "The ravine to the river is around a corner not far from here." I got in the car and in less than 50 yards, the road took a 90 degree turn which could not be seen from the mounds and moved at a sharp angle down the RAVINE which led to the river. It was the ONLY access to the river for miles in either direction. That is, unless you wanted to jump off 100 foot banks. I can't tell you the feelings that walking this ground generated in me. But finding the field and finding the ravine clearly demonstrated to me that I had been there in April 1862. Critics of reincarnation can say that all fields look the same which is probably true. However, how did I know there was a ravine that was the only feasible access to the river?

Reincarnation is a fact for me. Knowing that you lived before helps to understand the self of the present.

Wow, those are all amazing! I just joined this group and I've had flashes of memories for about the last ten years or so. A lot of it has been memories of a life in Nazi Germany, a former silent film actress married to a soldier. After that lifetime, I think I lived in New Zealand or Japan, maybe both. I've also had flashes from a range of eras extending back millenia, even some on other planets.

Very interesting!!!! Hey Frances, how are you? I 'm reading a book by Laura Adams about "getting over past lives from hell." She remembers being one of the most notorious men in the nazi regime. What do you remember, or is it too disturbing to mention?

My memories from past lives relate a lot to my present life. They make sense given the irrational fears or reactions I have, like post traumatic stress patients, sometimes I emotionally flashback, so that I feel like I'm in old situations, when I encounter something remotely similar. But I'm really not, and I'm really safe. Oooh. Getting the shivers. Well,What do you remember about the other places?

Can you remember any language? i just learned it's called xenoglossy, when you suddenly can speak Japanese, even though you never learned it in your life! what planets can you remember being on? How about other continents, like Atlantis, or Lemuria?

The two main memories I have are as an aboriginal girl in I think Saskatchewan, in Canada, at a residential school in the 1800s, or maybe -- they had log cabins, fur coats, maybe a gun. And the other is in a big city in the US. Somewhere near water - Boston maybe? As a gang member.

I also used to have a memory of being a little girl in Africa, standing in tattered clothes, with people laying all around on the ground, crying and crying and crying. I think ... I don't know, I don't think they were killed by people, I got the impression of a sickness or simply starvation having killed them. I always wanted to go to Africa. Maybe i still will. Somewhere near Nigeria. I used to sing in a language that I thought was African. I might still be able to if I try Maybe I made it up, but it seemed African to me!

Then, a few years ago, I visited a lake near home here, about an hour's drive away, with my parents. I felt called down to the beach, and there I saw a vision of a spirit - aboriginal guy, with bloody bodies all around him in the lake. His face was so contorted with rage, and he said to me, "Avenge us! Avenge our deaths!" I knew what was happening, so I told him, "Look, I'm in 2001, I'm not in your time. I can't do anything for you." I think he understood.

Later that year or the next year, my parents went there again, and a hornet came out of a tree trunk and stung my Dad as they were walking. He had never had a hornet sting before, but he got more and more numb and they had to go to the hospital in a nearby town and the park ranger drove them half way and the ambulance met them on the highway, and they were able to give him a shot of something that saved his life. During the ambulance ride, Dad said there were vengeful spirits taunting him, and threatening him. He had to try and defend himself: luckily he is knowledgeable in these things.

Later, we discussed everything, and my Dad said that the night we were camping there together and I had seen the man in the lake, he had had a dream. He could see the people camped all around. He was in one tribe and I was in another. We were at war. He could see me in the other camp, doing something... domestic: sewing furs or skins, or scraping skins or something.

Do you put two and two together and come up with the same answer as me?

Another one. I posted this in my own thread, but since we're sharing... I remember when I was young, I used to see this beautiful woman. She had long flowing black hair and wore like a flowy, puff sleeve kind of blouse like we call a peasant shirt. She used to bring me drinks and food. And smile. I was a boy, maybe 17, and in bed all the time, must've been sick. I was totally and sweetly in love with her. As a little girl I thought she was the most beautiful woman and I wished I had the same name as her - it was long and started with A. When I was little, I could remember it. But I forget now.


Why do we remember these things and not other things? There are some other memories. Some that scare me, some that just intrigue and make me curious.

Take care, I must get some supper. Thank you for sharing! love and light, Rachel.

Hi, Rachel! Glad to meet you. I got chills when you mentioned the woman in the peasant blouse! I have vague recollections of something similar, but those memories are fuzzy, like a faded watercolour. As for my days in the Third Reich, I don't think we had much to do with the camps. I get the feeling his name was Carl and her name was Claire. Party members, actors, maybe dancers. The flashes of memory I get look like silent film, faded and sporadic. I can remember dancing with him. I can see him, tall and dark-haired, in a dark suit, possibly a uniform. But I think he served in WW1, and marched in the parades later. The lifetime after that, just before this one, I think was cut short. I see myself in hospital, and the staff sound Kiwi. When I've done regressions, I jump straight from hospital to high school, which I started August 1995. It's almost as though the first thirteen years of this life were lived by a soul other than mine. Which would explain a lot! I'm radically different from how I was prior.

And, yes, I do remember Atlantis. I have a fear of drowning because of what happened. I was in a boat with a few other people, the waves rocking us as the last parts of that once glorious island sank into the sea. It still makes me weep.

Where did you end up after being on the boat from Atlantis? Did you survive, or did you drown then?


You may well have jumped directly to highschool, although it seems a little unusual. I've heard of that happening, different souls livin the one life. Have YOU heard of that happening, before? Do you have other reasons to believe you did that?



But people also change, and people also I THINK can live simultaneous lives. There's not really time outside of specific spheres where we have time, like ours. Or at least that is what I understand. I feel like I know less and less everyday sometimes. Or maybe I'm just less and less certain. Actually, I'm learning a lot at this moment so that was a strange comment on my part...!


Anywho, what does it tell you about your present life, Frances? The only thing I can see about my past lives is that I have to accept them, and have compassion on the person that I was, try to give her what she needed at the time, like the strength, confidence, knowledge that she is loved and is not helpless, and so on. And I have to forgive and ask forgiveness, and see what caused me to do things wrong, and then learn not to do it again.


I've had good past lives too, it's just that I remember the bad stuff right now. I'm processing some stuff; doing some serious spiritual work these days. Have an assignment to talk to one of my former selves every day for at least 20 minutes and have emotional intimacy with myself. Get to know myself again, not push parts of me aside out of shame.


How did you get these memories? Did you dream them or just remember, or did you meditate and seek them? You said you did regression. What brought you to that point?


Have a good day. I'll be checking in tomorrow. Peace and gratitude. Nice to emet you! Rachel. PS. Hey Mel, where are ya Lady?

Hi Frances and Rachel!  Just dropped in and was reading your RPM's. ( That's Reincarnational Past Memories.)   Some people think that's abbreviated for 'the number of full rotations completed in one minute around a fixed axis. What's the difference? Your consciousness is the fixed axis and the rotations are your karmic dramas.

Thank God, I have no recollection of experiencing the holocaust that took place in Poland to the Poles and the Jewish people.

But I do feel deja vu to the Christian Crusades...also a tribesman to Ghengis Khan...I'd have some pretty nasty karma to make up for if it wasn't for the blessing to have walked the Earth at the same time as Yeshua. What he taught is embedded into my soul, and although I am not perfect in any sense of the word...I know the way...now...finally.

Positive, affirmative and loving.

It's not easy for a human with a monster killer ego.

Love & Peace

Hi Frances, Rachel, Mel.

I certainly agree with Frances in that I know I've lived on other planets before earth. After all, if someone knows they have lived even ONE life before this one then that means that our existence has been going on for a very long time through time, so that would include going back back back back even before the planet earth was here and so forth. You might call it a time track. It's very long in this universe.

I was in the Civil War, though all I recall is I was about 20 and had joined one side and my brother joined the other and it caused huge rifts in our family as well as brother against brother. It was a terrible war, even for just this reason.

I was one of the 'victims' of the Nazis. I was a Czech man who worked in a steel mill most of his life and all of a sudden the Nazis overran our country and were taking me back to Germany to work for THEM so I ran when we got off the train knowing they would shoot me, which they did, in the back. I would not work for the scum who had just taken away everything I had worked for for years, took over my beloved country! I also wanted to show my fellow 'prisoners' what monsters these Nazis were, who would shoot an unarmed man in the back. This was my previous life to this current one.

Don't know anything about Atlantis.

Well, it sure is interesting!

I've been trying to come up with the right words. What I remember of Atlantis and being in that boat . . . . I think I survived the boat ride across the ocean and wound up . . . . I see jungles, lots of lush greenery. Maybe what is now South America or northern Africa before it became desert? I can see pyramids being built, but I'm never sure where. And something about a lot of information, books or scrolls, some sort of written materials, being put away in a safe place, I think a cave, remarkably well hidden in a forest somewhere. In those days, I didn't look human, exactly. I can remember seeing my reflection, and my colouring was so different! Pale skin that almost glowed in the dark, lips that were blueish-purple, eyes much larger, nose much smaller, ears almost nonexistent, it's sort of hazy still.

Wow. Could the information have been put into crystals? I'm told they did on Lemuria. Peace, Rachel

Probably! I can vaguely recall conversing with a woman who was, I believe, a princess or priestess of Lemuria. She was radiant! I think she passed on a lot of knowledge to me, but I don't know how she imparted that knowledge. It does come back in spurts, usually. Then, all of a sudden, BOOM! It's a flood. Anyway, after she had taught me all she could, I believe she, along with most of Lemuria (?) ascended to a higher plane. Atlantis was supposed to, eventually, but instead succumbed to greed. I worry that that will happen again to this world. Thus, my feeling of foreboding about 2012.

I feel that foreboding too, with what's happening in the US, and like Kenneth stated, rather than pay tax, for the greedy, murderous scum leading this country to squander for themselves, I'd rather leave. 

I have memories of Atlantis. It was located between North America and Europe. They did use crystals, for one thing it enhanced ones own spiritual traits.

I'm sure there was greed, but the down fall was the earth drilling, a misuse of science. Overall Atlantis was a peaceful culture, more technologically oriented. The crystals caused a magnification of spiritual senses, and there was a lot of telepathy. There were creatures there, part man and part animal. One who haunts my soul was the one who flew. He wasn't an angel, but I wonder if that's where the idea of angels began...or if they were the offspring of those, that the Book of Enoch speaks of...the angels who were banished from the heavens and mated with humans.

I loved him and begged him to let my father remove his wings so he and I wouldn't attract unwanted attention. He was so angry with me for suggesting it that he left me. Is it imagination or is it a memory? I mean...why did the ancients depict animal men? Who could have imagined a unicorn or a centaur?

Anyway, the kind of karma that one undergoes for that kind of hurt directed to another soul is to be born with a deformity, to experience the pain. And I was and did, only I was born without wings...a hunchback. Scorned and ridiculed, forced to live on the fringes of society. Always...this for that, and tit for tat. It's weird how this information can flow from my mind. I will never again suggest to someone that they need to fix something about their appearance. I'll try to find the beauty of the soul, because I know that it's there, regardless of looks.

A soulmate isn't necessarily perfect, but is always the one for you. I've had a soulmate from heaven, and I've had a soulmate from hell.

Namaste

When I was young and first saw the Hunchback of Notre Dame, I cried so hard for him and I loved that girl for being kind to him. It was like striking a chord, been there...done that.

You're right, Mel. There was gross misuse of science and technology. When I said "greed" I should have been more clear. I really meant that there was greed for power and more . . . . more . . . . I can't find the right words! Greed and desire for further advancement of technology at the expense of other aspects of society, I think is what I'm trying to say. I remember people flying, too. I might have been one of them, but not with actual wings. More like *gauzy* appendages with which I could "catch the wind." It's weird, though, that in this lifetime I have a fear of heights, or rather, a fear of falling from great heights.

interesting, i have the same fear, but i dont' remember that kind of flying. i remember going in a hot air baloon with a man in suspenders and lots of tother children.

Anyway, Lemuria. You both remember flying people?

Mel how come you say you had two soulmates and one was a bad one? why would he be your soulmate like that?

I understand that in 2012 there will be an ascension of some of the world but the rest will destroy itself if that is what it decided to have. but also I heard at that point there will be like a poll, and whereever humans' hearts are at, the majority will rule. Theh first option here seems more likely, because I do believe the universe is just.

/Do you have knowledge you're allowed to share?

Peace all, Rachel. Pls keep sending healing my way. love, Rachel

Hi Rachel, I've heard that idea about 2012 and some 'ascension'. I'd like to state this is not necessarily true. It's someone's idea, and some people have agreed with it, probably because they HOPE there will be such a thing as a solution to human problems and conditions on earth at this time. It is not necessarily true that it is going to happen.

This 'ascension' sounds vaguely similar to Armegeddon and the Rapture and associated stuff in Christianity. Well, they've been talking (and waiting) for that for a lot of centuries to date.

In my opinion, human beings (spirits) are always looking for something else to pin responsibility for conditions of things on, to give them some magical fix. It happens when you try to do something and fail, thereafter you don't want to take responsibility for failing and so give the problem to something else. In this case, an 'ascension', which supposedly is supposed to magically elevate certain people to higher states, without them even having to do anything about it.

In my opinion, each person must get themselves up to a higher level, know how they did it, and not by some exterior unknown hidden influence. A person gets to a higher level by being Self-determined more than Other-determined.

Frances, you're an Earth sign Taurus, right? That's probably why you prefer being on the ground. You're close to the age of my daughter who was born May 21. She was 3 degrees into Gemini though...making us BOTH Gemini's with Libra rising. The big difference between her and I is that she's got moon in Scorpio, mines in Virgo. There's definitely karma between her and I. We've got little patience for each other, and love and devotion requires real deliberation. I admire her quick mind and intelligence, but her princess attitude really irks me because I end up being the servant.

So that's my lesson from her...humble is, as humble does. I may be her mother, but I am certainly NOT her boss.

Rachel, although the soulmate from hell was orgasmic, his addictions overpowered his personality. Drugs used to numb his deeply embedded insecurities turned him into an animal. Animals are great unless they attack, then ya don't want em as pets...right? The soulmate from heaven got boring, his head was too much in his cloudy world and it appeared he had no intention of lowering his mind to my level. Plus who can live with someone who's always telling you how to drive? Oodles of toodles. His own 80 yr old mother recently jumped out of his car because he wouldn't turn his music down. She survived, thank God, no broken bones...just a few stitches.  Maybe he wasn't really from heaven after all.

Ya just can't win! But, are you thinking that a soulmate is supposed to be your perfect match?

Kenneth, I agree with you again...religion never quite gets it right. But that's because of their hidden agenda. The rapture is about personal awareness of the spirit and obedience to the Cosmic Consciousness. It's about being aware that we are creating realities, which are nothing more than fleeting thoughts that experience unlimited dimensions in various disguises.

There have been several texts that have been written by the disciples, Mary of Magdala being one of them...that had turned up in Egypt in the 1800's, were found to have copies in Coptic, an ancient language, and also Greek. She mentions that Jesus told her of things that the other disciples, knew nothing about and these things have been suppressed. There were even pages of the manuscript that had been torn out. The jealousy that Yeshua would tell her and not them, angered them.  ~HELLO~  Maybe one who listens with an open mind hears more details...!?  But what she spoke of was what you can read in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. So what you can't find in the stodgy old Bible...you WILL find in other Holy Scriptures. Seek and you will find...he who has ears to hear will hear. Those were two of Yeshua's favorite statements.

Namaste

Kenneth, you make a great point. We do create our own realities. I'm not expecting some sort of quick fix, but I feel like *something* is going to happen. It's . . . . I don't know how to describe it in words, this feeling.




And Mel, I am also so glad to find other people who share the view that many faiths hold validity. I don't necessarily espouse all the tenets of any given path, but I'm eclectic and study all that I can find reliable information on. Tibetan Book of the Dead, huh? I've been meaning to check that out, if I can ever find a copy! Mary of Magdala has fascinated me for some years now. Very interesting that you should mention her!

I'm reading a great book written by Karen King, she actually shows pictures of the manuscripts, and compares the two that were found. So far it is excellent and to me, in my opinion it's right on! Some people think that there was a sexual relationship between her and Jesus. I don't believe it. I think that he probably loved her because she truly listened and learned, but I feel that in his heart...his spiritual mission was more important than physical relationships. I read a book by another authoress, and it just didn't ring true. The second book, The Expected One, was very interesting, but was saying something similar to the Da Vince Code...a family line from France, and that she'd been married and had a son to John the Baptist, prior to her marriage to Yeshua and two children. Not even close!

It's like...the dream never dies...just the dreamer. Wishful thinking, perhaps. I have yet to finish this third book, her term for Mary as a woman disciple is very true, and I do agree with the second book that suggested both Mary's as raised as Essene. But Jesus actually left that group because of their tendency to make rules, too and that was what he renounced. He really was about a simplistic truth uncorrupted by man-made rules and regulations, and he wanted what he knew about the 'spirit' to be known by everyone. I sincerely believe that Jesus was the first Adam, and had perfected his love, faith and forgiveness, especially his resistance to the flesh body. (Kenneth's term) And his ability to discipline his own ego...but look at the time that it took for him to perfect his mind? I've no clue how many lifetimes, but I'm sure it was many, before the awakened and aware soul grew until it could no longer be tainted with the darkness of ego nature. There is even hope for Lucifer, no? Through out the ancient history of religious beliefs in so many cultures...there is the clash between the good twin and the bad twin. But the parable of the prodigal son means that even Lucifer has a chance to 'see the light', so to speak. I have two whole pages in my own story book, beginning with a love for the angel with the huge ego, and ending with the love for an angel who put others first and self last. The truth will set you free.  

Here's a link to the online book, Frances. Tibetan Book of the Dead. You can read it and/or watch the five part videos that were creatively made. Somewhere, while I was reading, was the link directing me to Karen King's book, 'The Gospel of Mary of Magdala' the woman who Christianity tried so hard to suppress. I immediately purchased it from Amazon, and had the book in a couple of days. But for anyone to say that she carried out Yeshua's mission is a bit far-fetched. Yeshua earned his place with the Gods...and I believe that he wanted that for everyone. Know thyself, ye are Gods...now believe it and act the part. The first will be last and the last will be first, if that sounds confusing...just think about it for a second. If you put yourself first, you have lost the truth. If you put others before you then you will be first in the Consciousness of God, that is the union to achieve.

             http://www.summum.us/mummification/tbotd/

Namaste

'Lucifer has a chance to 'see the light''

'Lucifer' means 'morning star' or 'bringer of light' . . . . nothing to do with darkness. In my definition he represents shining and spotlighting the light on illusion, (ego perhaps?) nothing more.

The reference to Lucifer does not arise until the King James version of the bible where there is a total misrepresentation. The name of a Babylonian king has been, quite literally, translated into latin. His 'fall from grace' was more to do with his earthly persecution of the Hebrews rather than supernatural darkness of hell and brimstone

In the old testament, Satan works for God, to test people. There's one story where the man is riding a long and Satan stands in front of him and the donkey won't go any farther. I forget who it is. It's the same guy who while riding, gets his head stuck in the tree, but "his ass kept going" hehe. Sorry,hope it's not blasphemous to laugh at things lost in translation Anyway, it's not till the New Testament, that Satan is considered an enemy of God. Personally I don't believe in Satan, although I believe there are bad spirits and forces that don't work for the light.

Peace to you all. Rachel.

He was supposed to be the brightest and most beautiful of the angels. 

*The prophet Ezekiel says of this evil being, “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God” (Ezek. 28:13). The prophet Isaiah says of this evil being, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer” (Isa. 14:12). The king of Babylon was never in “heaven”. Jesus Christ said, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” (Luke 10:18). The apostle John said that “there was war in heaven.... And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Rev. 12:7,9). So we know by the scriptures that Isaiah 12 and Ezekiel 28 are not only speaking of natural human kings but of the evil spirit behind them, “the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience” (Eph. 2:2). The book of Job tells us that “the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” (Job 1:7).

Satan is a Hebrew word that meant, one who tempts or seduces...and anyone can be a tempter. Jesus called his own disciple, Peter a satan, when he tried to convince Jesus to leave the area to save himself. The word represents a human trait, but does not specify any one entity. People were also connected to the place of their birth...such as Jesus of Nazereth, or Mary of Magdala. 

*The passage (NRSV): 14:12

How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ 15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. 16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, 17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?’

Lucifer was the angel who...I believe was the one who encouraged Adam and Eve eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. I think, Adam & Eve were created to multiply and give birth to perfect body temples for the angels who were banned from the Morning Star, which was their home. (Venus) They followed Lucifer, who seduced them with lies. They were being given another chance. An upright walking man and woman body...not the two-legged animal man who evolved.

Lucifer was the most high angel, but he loved none but himself. He was a mutant thought, a selfish and negative force in the realm of spirit.

'Bringer of light'?  No, pretender of light...mirror of light...like a moon that can only reflect the brilliance of the sun.

*In fact, there is probably a reference here to the habit of ancient Near Eastern kings proclaiming themselves incarnations of the gods; with the fall of the kings, their gods also fell, often physically as the images that represented them were pulled down and destroyed.

* are excerpts from:

http://www.cresourcei.org/lucifer.html

Rachel, something like that happened to me one time...the saddle came loose as I was riding, I clung to a tree hoping that the horse would stay, because he was ignoring the reign being pulled. He walked right out from under me and went home. I could almost hear him whinney, "Stupid human, horses are for cowboys." 

haha!

Mel . . . in that first paragraph there is the assumption that Lucifer, Satan and the Devil is all the same.

Lucifer was a Babylonian king whose name, in Babylonian mean't 'morning star', 'bringer of light'. I imagine Issiah (the only one in the old testament to mention Lucifer by name) was making a word play on the name with the deeds of this king.

One can read the story of Adam and Eve (where some say it was Abaddon or Apollyon that tempted them) and how one interpretes this story is a personal choice. I would suggest that the only way that makes, not only sense but is also useful to growth and understanding, is to view it as an ancient psychological analogy. A mind map.

In this way it is equal whether You name one Satan, Devil, Apollyon, Lucifer or even God. It is all just a stage set for the interplay of consciousness.

Yes, I see what you are getting at...I agree with you that there were many names used to signify evil. The Gospel of Mary says that Yeshua told her that there isn't sin either, what is in her gospel appears to me to be similar to what's in the Bardo Thodol, the Book of the Dead. It describes levels of awareness...and lack thereof, but by being aware that these images are all part of the illusion that has just been experienced, you will avoid failure. Jesus was basically trying to explain this transition from one state to the next.

But in that drama, there were definitely players. I've read that some think that Jesus became the Morning Star, taking the place of the one who was full of ego. Then that would mean that he was an archangel.

The whole Garden of Eden story probably has a psychological implication that man and woman were tempted by the flesh, the snake being a phallic representation.

In Mary's gospel, she said that Jesus taught them to be 'real humans', the translation sometimes states 'son's of man'. It dawned on me that the meaning is to be as innocent as children...sons of man ARE children of humanity. Jesus stated that to enter the realm of god, (and there's another translateral meaning, in Greek the meaning of God meant good.) one must become like children. What would that mean? Children are innocent, trusting and basically good because they are new to the material world. I feel that what Jesus was trying to impart to his disciples and followers, is that they should strive to have  the traits of children because they are closer to the realm of spirit, until they grow older and conditioning sets in.

Yes, many of the prophets and kings were bards and poets. Even Jesus spoke in parables that could be better understood by the people of that time, and the true meanings are often lost in translation to present day. 

Yeah, Isaiah could have been speaking about the king of Babylon, and referring to him as similar to the fallen angel. There must have been folk lore about the fall of the heavenly realm, don't you think?

Was the king a reincarnation of the deluded ego? I'm clueless now as to what you would name the deluded ego. I've never heard of Abaddon or Apollyon.

Rachel, did you mean Zachias?

I remember a song verse from SundaySchool...Zachias was a wee, little man, a wee, little man was he. He climbed up in a sycamore tree, for the Lord he wanted to see. And the Lord said...Zachias, you come down...shoot, can't remember the rest but, I think that he fell out of the tree or something.

 Zachias was the first tree hugger.

One could see temptation as that of the flesh. Personally I view that as a part, rather than the whole story and could be (is) used against one's self. I like your term 'deluded ego' and see that as being far more to the point and is also snakelike in it's analogious symbolism (also 'legless' - fallen angel?). The deluded ego experiences lust instead of love, greed v generousity, fear v courage, pride v dignity etc.

This mental aberration could be the 'fall from grace' into 'karmic' reality and the whole point of the Adam and Eve story.

Well, not ALL the enlightened men were attachment free...after second read.

All of these folk may have left keys but they also left a huge heap of distraction. Did You never search for your keys and find You were holding them all the time?

Actually, Dolceanstar...the keys that the messengers showed the world were used and abused by people who wanted to control or trick people. Jesus, Buddha and Krsna all tell us that the key is within the heart. And that where your heart is, there lies the treasure. When things go wrong it is by the deluded soul who looks to others for their redemption from darkness and confusion...and as all good shepherds know, one can lead, but the ultimate redemption is through the use of your own mind to stand strong against your fears. By knowing that you are indeed fragments of the Cosmic Consciousness, which makes you a part of, but not greater than...the whole, you will be able to claim your birth right. You can announce to your fears that your divine right is to go past them and straight to the Source.

That really is the only challenge that we face, to go beyond our own fears.

We have created a reality. Anyone who partakes of the Earth and it's material conditioning has made that choice of experience. All that you need to do is acknowledge that simple fact, and realize your spiritual reality. A fragment of the greater Consciousness, an entity in your own right, yet incomplete until united with the Source.

A self realized soul recognizes that God is the source, and that the power of the spirit stems from that eternal source. 

What we think of as the fall from grace is actually being lost from the source. To go within opens the eye of awareness and in floods the light of fleeting memories...and finally the realization of divinity. But as Jesus stated...one who is divine will serve the humble and become first in the Realm of our Source.

Without an introduction to the truth by those who have come before us...how long would it take to realize the truth? Do we really want to suffer in darkness and fear for repeated lives? Those keys that you would have me do without have given me strength and ability to overcome my doubts and uncover my identity.

I don't worship anyone...but I love.

Namaste

PS  I've since become aware that the reason that the female has become the great temptation on earth, is because she gives birth to a physical reality...thought that has become desire has been manifest through that body. The physical temple traps the soul. Therefore the woman is the source of entrapment because she gives life to man's desire. He finds this most intimidating, so must find a way to control the spirit of the soul who creates physically. 

What d'ya think of them 'apples'? 

I subscribe to the idea (which I suppose resembles what Buddha once said) that YOU are truth, truth is found in you and not in any exterior force/influence/entity/being. If there's any truth to be known, you're the one who will know it. When I look at you, and you, and you, I'm looking at truth, and above and beyond that there is no truth. Jesus once said, 'know thyself and the truth will set you free'.

I believe each one of us is the 'Source'. We're not actually 'fragments' of some big 'oneness' though you could consider that if you wanted to. I'm the Source to me, you're the Source to you, etc.

I especially don't believe that YOU can't know all the truth there is to know about yourself and everything else unless you 'join up' with some big oneness or allness. Again of course, you could consider this to be the case if you want to.

Mel I'm more in alignment with Kenneth's words, there is no one out to abuse, trick or control myself except myself and in that I do not see myself as being a fragment or 'lost from the source'.

I also don't believe that I need those that 'came before me' to instruct me and I don't believe in past lives. All wisdom is known and knowable in the ever present.

Well, I know basically what you're saying D. in that we're responsible for everything that happens to us. Nothing can happen to us without our agreement (I think Mel would agree with this too). But short of someone being at such an extremely high level that can be THAT responsible, I certainly see others sometimes definitely attempting to control me, or trick me, or harm me. I also have attempted to do the same to others. Of course if I was perfectly clean of any of these things against others then nothing they could do to me could possibly hurt me. (it's only what you have done to others that can hurt you).


I absolutely totally know I have lived before, in other bodies that is, since I am immortal and cannot die. Many, many times. But that is my own reality.

Kenneth, if one attracts controlling behaviour or trickery, it is a victim mode one needs to be aware of at that time. It's like attracting that energy in whatever representation that takes, lover, relation, collegue, stranger or government department in order to work the issues one has with that mental state. You are as free of control and trickery as You are free of control and trickery . . . . if You see what I mean.

Also, I did not say I did not believe in living in many bodies. I said I did not believe in past lives. There's a difference.

You mean living in many bodies at the same time in present time as opposed to having lived before this current life? (you have a body in this life, you had a body in a previous life, you had a body previous to that, etc, etc.) I agree the former is possible though it would take a high level being to be able to run concurrent lives at the same time and keep each one separate and not get confused about it. I think most people have a hard time running one body without getting confused about it. (If you didn't mean any of this let me know what you DID mean)

About control and trickery, sure, you're saying the same thing I think as I did earlier, that is, if one doesn't have any control or trickery going on within oneself then you won't attract it. Let's just put those two things under the heading 'harmful acts against others'. Of which there are many kinds besides those two. And harmful acts include intentional and unintentional. You drive over a child that you had no idea had fallen under your car. You didn't intend it but the result is the same on the child. It isn't ALL about you and your mental state or your condition. There are others living around you in livingness. Otherwise you become sort of 'the only one' which fails as a viewpoint that is workable (works). These harmful acts also include acts of commission as well as acts of omission. Meaning it's not only acts you DID but also acts you DIDN'T do when you should have (and harmed someone because of it).

I think I can safely say that hardly anyone is walking around with no harmful acts on their hands in present time. Not to get wrapped up in 'harmful acts' but it's whatever each person CONSIDERS was a harmful act, maybe big, maybe fairly little, and we don't mean 'kidding' oneself that it wasn't one when the person knows darn well it was.

Hi guys, well, I won't wade into the debate on intentional and unintentional harm and how we attract it, if the child was attracting to himself being run over or not: that is fodder for another fire

But re. many bodies at once... You wrote:
"...it would take a high level being to be able to run concurrent lives at the same time and keep each one separate and not get confused about it. I think most people have a hard time running one body without getting confused about it. "

Kenneth, this is how I see it. When you refer to most people trying to run one body, it seems like you believe
1 - the being running the body is the one conscious of that lifetime.
And
2.time exists between lives and outside of the earth experience.

I don't share either of those beliefs.

1.It seems to me there is a greater consciousness, that I call God, running the whole show. Then, there are subdivisions (for lack of a better term) of that consciousness, which I call spirits. Then, we subdivide further into who I call souls. As souls, our spirit can experience many lifetimes.

2. The earth realm has time and space, so we can learn and grow and change and change systems etc. However, once you die, or move beyond the present reality through some other means - deep meditation, out of body experience, near death experience - there is no need for time, and time does not affect us. We don't seem to live in a linear universe. The TV and Web show Beyond by Renegade pictures (I think) has a lot of info on that. A wise man who delves deep into the spirit told me that if you go into another lifetime and change it, you change all the other lifetimes you ever lived in, including the present. In my experience, when I've changed things in other lifetimes, or at least in the memory of other lifetimes, within me, then my feelings, attitudes, life, change.

So, by my reckoning, if our "spirits," as many "souls," experience different lifetimes, we can do it all today, or in vastly different time periods, with the same result.

What do you all think? Peace, Rachel

Rachel, I knew you were going to jump in on the time continuum, multi dimensional thing. That's something else you and I share,  besides our belief in God.
You all make excellent points though, and it makes me feel like sometimes...I just don't know what to think! And that maybe thinking so much is what's really bad for us.
For instance...in this Karen King's book, she said that the way Mary Magdalene's words translated...that the way she must have understood 'Son of Man' that Jesus often spoke of...was the perfect human within.
I've heard about the inner child, as far as psycho babble, but that really struck me funny that King thinks Mary Mags would understand Jesus' comment in such a way. It's a totally different way to perceive a phrase that I thought meant a reference to the fact that we are sons (and daughters) of Adam & Eve...but are also spiritual entities springing from God. Why not fragments? Look at how many of us there are...look at all the cells that we have in our body that joined together make up a man. I say, why not? 
And as far as being an independant source...that's what being created in the image of God is all about. I give birth to an entity that is in my image. That child is from me, but not me...I think I've said this before...but it's my belief that we are all entities that make up a greater entity. This is what I show my kids to give a better idea of perspective...star dust...that quark...is the energy within that gives life to the entity. The quark filled proton is but a fragment of the man...just as the earth is a fragment of God.

And you know what else... I think that Jesus told Mary the secret to bind the wrathful spirit. Probably after she washed his dusty sandaled feet, and dryed them with her long, glistening black hair.

The key? Maybe he told her...

When your spirit leaves the body and you are faced with frightening visions, don't be afraid of them, because they are your demons, your fears.

And because I have traveled the way, I can tell you how to go to the good Source. Simply say to them...I am a child of God, and I am going home, come with me in peace and love.

Namaste

Hallo Kenneth, sorry to take so long . . . . .

'You mean living in many bodies at the same time in present time as opposed to having lived before this current life?'

Yes, that is exactly what I mean however I don't understand why one would need the awareness to run concurrent lives when we clearly don't. Even the physical awareness of the body we have is filtered to a small percentage of it's capability just in order to keep the physical game going.

However through seepage and training it is possible to cross the boundaries and can be shown through intuition, clairvoyance and other 'supernatural' talents. 

I also have an idea that we, as consciousness, live not only concurrent lives but all the potential lifestories within and without those lives.

On your second point. If consciousness is all there is and 'fragmentation' of  reality is just an illusion, then I don't present an unworkable viewpoint.

Imagine, at the point of death, all those You experienced in life parading before You and, the Cosmic Joke was revealed! That all You (consciousness) took for another was You (consciousness) acting out the play of your (conscious) will.

Imagine now, coming back from that place of death and being confronted by a life that has a whole new context. Where You watch a feeding mother and it is, quite literally, consciousness observing consciousness feeding consciousness with consciousness. There is no fragmentation or struggle with ego. What is unworkable about that? Quite the contrary.

It is purely a holographic reality rather than a linear reality.

Hi all. Well isn't there a ton of stuff to digest here! First though I must say that: What is true for you is what you have observed yourself (this applies to anyone) and, If it isn't true for you then it isn't true.


Rachel, I believe that one being is running one body. This means you are running your body, I am running my body, etc. For me I know this is true as there is no one else running my body but me. If I wasn't running it this meat body wouldn't do much, probably just lie motionless, maybe alive as a meat organism but also maybe die since that's what happens when a being (spirit, life force etc., ME) leaves. It's called body death, no one home, somebody left the body.
I also am aware I'm running the body. If I'm not I'm in bad shape as a spirit! But that's not an impossible condition to be in since spirits/beings are in all sorts of conditions, not necessarily all good conditions. A being certainly is aware of the lifetime they're living or you'd have to be on a really low level of operation as a being. The entire keynote is you are an awareness of awareness unit you might say. (you're aware that you're aware, which is different than most animals---they're aware but not usually aware that they're aware).

The physical universe, including physical/meat bodies, is composed of matter, energy, space, and time. Change is time. Time is the change of position of particles in space. Things move, they decay, bodies get older etc.

YOU don't however! And YOU are not your body, nor are you composed of matter, energy, space, or time but you can CONSIDER that you are in the physical universe and these things can affect you and you can play with them etc. In other words, YOU created the physical universe (along with every other being who is playing in it).

You use the words 'earth experience'. There are certainly many more and other experiences going on in the physical universe right now. The earth is one planet, which has a certain age (began), and the time track of this universe is a lot longer than earth's age. Earth is (to me) sort of a two-bit smaller type experience. (no insult intended).

You are you. You are here now. You are a being. You are not many beings or many souls or many spirits. You've also had many other lives you lived (and by this I mean a spirit/being is occupying one body which constitutes one life, experiences one life). You bring various bric-a-brac with you from all these other lives along with you. So now you sit in this current life and of course they can affect you (some under your awareness). It is possible to discover some of these past experiences and relieve them from bothering you now. You are here in present time recalling them (because they are stored in your mind and are in your mind in present time). You yourself don't 'go' anywhere. You don't have to. You could I suppose because nothing's impossible to a spirit but why? A human is spirit, mind, body. Three different things. I think possibly the spirit/being and your mind (which you are NOT) are getting mixed up here.

So of course relieving any bad stuff from past lives would make you do and be better in present time.

Dolcean: "I don't understand why one would need the awareness to run concurrent lives when we clearly don't."
You mean we wouldn't need to be aware that we were running more than one life at once (if that's what somebody was doing)? Or we clearly aren't running more than one life? To me, each of us is an awareness of awareness unit, keynote aware, and if you aren't aware of something then that's bad, that can affect you without you knowing it.

I get your point I think now. Rather than linear, everythings all present time and running concurrently? Well of course in present time everythings running in present time. But are you running more than one body right now? This is the whole crux. You'd have to tell me you are. AND you'd have to KNOW you are. You'd have to be aware that you are. You'd have to be able to show someone what other body on this planet you're running right now. There's no doubt, there's no 'idea' about it, there's no maybe you are, or theory about it. The road to truth lies in CERTAINTIES. Not maybes. You are probably certain you're running your body right now. (If not, that's not good.). If you are certain you're running some other body right now too, fine. But if you're not certain, it's just one more MAYBE along with every other maybe, theory, idea, that are all created by guess who---spirits/beings!
I also don't agree that all is mind or thought. YOU are not thought, though you certainly can create and cause thoughts. The problem after a while with all this is everyone has different meanings for different words. I've run into this before. Just think how many definitions a thousand people would come up with individually for God, Consciousness, Spirit, Being, etc., etc.

Oh, and Mel, you said sometimes you don't know what to think. That's higher than someone who says they know something when they don't really, or have created a whole bunch of stuff they say they know as a substitute for actually knowing. In other words don't lie to yourself and don't kid yourself! Those things prevent you from discovering what the truth actually is (for you).

Dolcean, possibly the illusion is not that we aren't here...the illusion is that because of our limited perspective...we do not know the greater Consciousness. When we leave THIS dimension...or layer, we become a free entity or energy. We are not subjected to anyones will other than our own...but we have 'thoughts' that have entered our beingness, this is the consciousness that is wholly spirit...not a holy spirit, but wholly spirit as in not having a material body. Whole and complete energy that goes into everything and around everything...containing everything. That 'everything' is what makes up the source that creates us through the state of being. The thoughts that you have no memory of, because they don't seem to be your own...are from the storehouse of Consciousness, awareness of the spirit is the only truth that one needs. Self awareness is important...but only if it is aware of it place in the overall picture. We have limited perspective when we think that we are only this form...and that is something that the Bhagavad Gita goes into great detail. The messages from the mind of the God Consciousness, the Greater Consciousness are sent to every entity within the realm of God. We basically ARE within the God Body. We have our own little chores, but each is important toward the Greater Good. Because we are so small, we don't have as great a significance...but we are still a part of God. This is a situation where without a joint, working relationship...nothing functions properly.

A rogue spirit is one whose functions are against the greater good, the rogue is a contamination of good and although it's life is ultimately an opposition, and will also put an end to itself. (Which is what's happening right now in our rogue government. It's greed, eats away at the body and will eventually destroy itself.) But as you can see in the video above...when the earth is viewed in perspective to the space in which it exists...it is nothing but star dust. A speck of light in a massive space. But within that space is the breath of God, inhaled through mighty lungs, spread throughout a perfect body, keeping alive a God within a God within a God within a God.  

What do you mean by Cosmic joke? That because the energy that gives life to each molecule is the controlling factor in beginning to end? If that Consciousness send life and healing through a messenger...just as the brain/consciousness of a human/god sends a messenger/savior to every cell/planet within the realm/heavenly body to be at peace within...what is the joke? Please don't tell me that I am you...but you can tell me that God the father/mother and I are one, because I am in that realm, a part of that realm. I am a fragment that makes up that realm. I exist as an entity in a cooperative. That cooperative IS God.

Kenneth, I am certain of one thing, I am minute in comparison to the whole, but that does not make me less than any thing else in the Cosmos.

Namaste

So You want me to tell You what You want to hear but not what You don't?

God or Consciousness, what or whoever You want to call it, does not deal in fragmentation, entities or cooperatives. Those are the illusions of mind and are the stuff of the Cosmic Joke. The Cosmic Joke is the idea that one lives one's life out as 'a part' of or 'a part' from. A fragment, an entity, a part of a cooperative. 

The punchline is that Consciousness is infinite and absolute and even the hallucination of Consciousness that believes itself to be a minute fragment is infinite and absolute Consciousness . . . . in it's totality!

Kenneth . . . . if all lives are running concurrently, in the game we are in, we do not need to have an awareness of all of them.

That would be a slight distraction!

We attract the lives that we want to interact with.

I find your last paragraph rather confusing. I am not running 'other' bodies. 'Other' bodies, including my own, are the 'dreamtime' (for want of a better word) of Consciousness. In that there is only one body playing the many.

The Quantum Apocalypse . . . .

-in response to Mel's post wayyy back... it wasn't him I was thinking of, but you've asked the Singing Woman, and I can remember songs from when I was 6. Maybe 5? So here are some! First, the one you mentioned Mel.

"Zacchias was a wee little man, and a wee little man was he, he climbed up in a sycamore tree, for the saviour he wanted to see. And as the saviour passed that way, he looked up in the tree. AND SAID! Zacchias, won't you please come down, for I'm going to your house today!!!

There's the rest of the song. Thanks for bringing back fond memories.
On that note...
" Climb,(with climbing motion) climb up sunshine mountain, heavenly breezes blow!
Climb, climb up Sunshine Mountain faces all aglow.
Turn (with rowing motion), turn from sin and sadness
looking to the sky! (shade your eyes and point upward)
Climb climb up sunshine mountain, YOU and I!"

Hehe, -that was a goodie
and "Jesus bids us shine with a pure, clear light,
like a little candle, burning in the night.
in this world is darkness. So let us shine. You in your small corner and I in mine!"

I find that one genuinely inspiring even now as an adult.

And finally, which is a lovely song, but politically incorrect for today's sensibilities, "Jesus loves the little children, all of the the children of the world. Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world!"

And so he does. We had a potluck today with Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, of all varieties, and likely an atheist thrown in for good measure It was wonderful, not only the amazing diversity of food, but, to see everyone getting along, from every corner of the globe, is truly a wonder to behold.

Love, Rachel.

So, after reading the rest, I'd like to jump briefly back into the fray to say... It all depends on who you consider to be YOU. And yes, i agree that to a certain extent it depends on semantics and definitions of certain terms, like soul and spirit. That's why I defined my terms.

Sure, I'm aware that I'm running my body. But if I go to sleep, am I still aware? If I'm knocked unconscious, or if they put me under to do surgery, am I still aware? Who's running the meat body, then?

It's sort of me that's running my body, but in the final analysis, it is not me, running my body or anything else running itself, it's a divine force. And there, I grant you, is a matter of faith. Do you believe there is a force or being beyond you that is running the big show? You might be doing the lion taming act, but are you also managing the circus? (hehe, is that an apt analogy?)

I'm not. I quit trying to manage my world. It's impossible. It's not my responsibility.

My body, on the other hand, I guess, I sort of run it. I put into it the energy, the love, the intention that it needs, to live and thrive as I, the beyond-physicality part of me, would have me do. So, in that sense I run my body. But it's a fairly localized aspect of me that does that, connected to all the other aspects of me I'm sure.

As for saying "I don't know what to think" and that being higher than saying you know...

I have to say I know, if my experience tells me something. Of course I don't know it for sure. How can any human ever KNOW anything for sure? We have to go with what we experience, and glean truth from that, as much as possible. I don't KNOW the earth is round either. It may well be a clever disguise engineered by Martians, but I believe it is round, and so I say, "I know."

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone! (Monday's Thanksgiving in Canada. ) I'm thankful for you guys and your making me discuss stuff! Maybe I'll chat with you again soon.

Peace and love, Rachel.

On the other hand, I think I am an expression of God, like all things and beings, so it IS me running my body, then. It's complicated, don't you think?

Rachel, I think that is the first thing you should do. Find ONE thing you KNOW for certain, for sure, about something. Until then, that (to me) would be the very definition of confusion!
Do you KNOW for certain that you ate food yesterday? Do you KNOW what you ate? Do you KNOW you have at least one hand on your body? Do you KNOW you're aware? Do you KNOW what a bird looks like? (any bird). etc. etc. By KNOW we mean as much as anyone can know anything, and by which the definition of the word means. It also doesn't mean you have to PROVE it to anyone or get anyone else's agreement. Agreement has nothing to do with knowing.

To me, a human being is comprised of the spirit, mind, body. YOU are the spirit/soul/being/life force unit. You are not the mind or the body.
To me, you USE a mind, and you are occupying a body.
Make your body start jumping up and down. Good. Now keep it jumping up and down. Good. Now make it stop. Good. Now who made it do that? You did. You made YOUR body (possessive) do that. You are NOT your body.

To me, the mind is composed of two parts. The first one is operating when you are awake and aware. It records mental image pictures continuously in all perceptions (senses such as sight, smell, touch, etc.) along a time track in the physical universe. These pictures are composed of a small amount of physical mass and energy. This is why when asked to 'recall' a dog you saw in the past you simply bring up the pictures you made at the time when you saw the dog and then look at it. It also poses and resolves problems relaing to survival. The other mind is a lower level mind that makes pictures continuously when you are 'unconscious' and your first mind shuts down, cuts out. All these pictures are also available to you, though not as easily.
Much confusion can occur if a person gets spirit (YOU) and mind mixed up.
To make it clearer, think of some cat you've seen in the past. What color is it? What is it doing? These are pictures of this cat. The actual cat isn't in front of you obviously. Now WHO IS LOOKING at these pictures? YOU are. (and notice you are looking without human physical eyeballs! This also shows YOU are not physical).

Dolcean, I don't want to get into quantam physics or mechanics. That is all physical universe stuff. There is no truth to be found in the physical universe. All it leads to is more physical universe stuff, of which WE are not. The only valid study to find truth about us is the study of the spirit(that 'thing' as above who is looking at the pictures).

Also, all is not thought, or a concept. At least in the physical universe. If you look at a bird, and other people see the bird, then it is real as far as anything gets in the physical universe. It does no good to say it is 'all illusion'. If you can see it then you must be at least partly in the physical universe in order to see it. If you stand your body in front of a speeding train it will be smithereened. It does no good in this universe to say 'the train is an illusion" or "it's all an illusion". If you have a body in this physical universe, and want it to continue/survive for some reason, to play a game with it etc., then you have to follow the rules of the physical universe.
Of COURSE it's an illusion, meaning you the spirit have helped create it, cause it to be, including the rules. And if everyone hadn't created it, it wouldn't exist. But if you're in it, and sorry to say you are if you have a physical body right now, and can perceive physical perceptions (sight, sound, etc.), then you have to agree to its rules if you are in it. Also, you can't get out of the physical universe by denying it. (which is the downfall of many philosophies).

All is NOT mind. All is not the product of 'thingingness'. Thinking is simply an activity which YOU, DO. Again, notice it's possessive when a person says "I..think..." or "I...thought...". Think, think, figure, figure, only leads to more thinking and figuring. The end product is you have 'thunk'. That's it. One can sit and think for years every idea and concept one could conceive (and there is an infinity of thinkingness) about moving a pencil from one side of a table to the other, and it wouldn't move. You have to move it, you have to DO something. That's the way the physical universe works. Some people however are at a high enough level as a spirit that they CAN move something in the physical universe by thinking the causative thought about it. Most people are not at this level (but of course are potentially able to).
There are at least 3 main universes. Your universe, the other guy's, and the physical universe (which is sort of the common meeting ground or common denominaor). In YOUR universe you think something, it happens. Or you think it should, quite naturally. So you think it should happen like this in the physical universe. But it don't! It has certain rules. Which makes YOU mad. Which drives people nuts, is exasperating, infuriating, etc. (speaking from my own experience.).

Kenneth, You're funny!!!

You write 'I don't want to get into quantam physics or mechanics.'

And then that's what You do.

All I'm saying is that we emanate from an idea of consciousness (outside of 'mind'). In the game of life, consciousness gives one a basic set of rules which one can rigidly abide by, reinforcing one's viewpoint with 'facts' and agreeable entities or . . . . the rules can be elastisized to change the viewpoint to a more agreeable and workable 'reality'. This is evolution.

It is my good fortune that I have met more than a few that have been able to work with consciousness to manipulate reality in this way. Yes, even to the point of playing in the midst of fast heavy traffic . . . just a party trick!

Hi Dolcean. As far as I have seen of the definition of quantam physics, it has to do with sub-atomic particles, very small stuff in the physical universe. I don't see where I went into anything about small particles of the physical universe in my post. I talked about the physical universe in general. That would include the 'bigness' of it too, such as ideas that it has some specific size limit. But of course maybe quantam physics has also been used to attempt to explain All of the physical universe, and I just haven't read it.
Well, my point was that one can go smaller and smaller, and if you're in the physical universe studying it, all you'll ever find is still smaller and still smaller stuff. It will just depend on the technology currently available at the time. The deeper you go into physical universe stuff, small or big, you will just keep finding more and more of it. That's because WE keep creating it to find!
I have to laugh at the idea that there is some bigness 'size' to the physical universe. Like there's some limit or border or edge or boundary to it. That would mean that if you were in a physical spacecraft you could approach the 'edge', and then you could gradually drive out of the physical universe! What a joke! If you're in a physical universe spacecraft, you must be then, by definition, in the physical universe. You can't have it half in and half out. You can't have any part of it out because then that part wouldn't be physical would it. You also couldn't have the entire physical spacecraft outside of the physical universe in the same way. It's an oxymoron. All you would find would be more and more physical universe to drive your physical universe craft in! Going smaller, going bigger, doesn't matter. The physical universe is a trap if one thinks by going into it they can get out of it. You talked about a 'cosmic joke'. To me, the big 'secret' of the physical universe is...that there is no secret!

For your second paragraph I guess you're talking about simply changing someone's agreements/viewpoints of how they consider the physical universe. A party trick as you say. I think we all tend to do that all the time. Ever have ten minutes (per a clock) seem like it was an hour, or sleep for 8 hours (per a clock) and it seem like a few minutes? Well, you're just changing your viewpoint of time, showing that it is fluid and bendable. I think we all play games with each other of manipulating and altering and 'tricking' other's people's agreements and viewpoints of things.

Just an example I thought of how we create realities for others that aren't necessarily so: you bring a big dog home to your wife, and she looks at it and says it's a big dog, it's too big for the house, etc. But you keep saying 'honey, it's not that big, look, it's small compared to the size of the yard, see how small it looks in our big house, why it's only half the size of our bed, etc. etc. You've creating a 'reality' for her that you want her to agree with. And that's all the physical universe is. Reality is what we agree is real.

The Vedic version

Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam.

eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman

tam stma-stham ye ’nupasyanti dhiras

tesam santih sasvati netaresam

(Katha Upanisad 2.2.13) As we are all individual living beings and have our individuality, the Supreme Absolute Truth is also, in the ultimate issue, a person, and realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all of the transcendental features in His complete form. The complete whole is not formless. If He is formless, or if He is less than any other thing, then He cannot be the complete whole. The complete whole must have everything within our experience and beyond our experience, otherwise it cannot be complete.

In the Katha Upanisad (2.2.13) the Supreme Lord is described as the chief eternal being amongst all other eternal individual beings (nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam) and the one Supreme Lord who maintains innumerable other individual living beings (eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman). So all living entities, both in the conditioned state and in the liberated state, are maintained by the Almighty Supreme Lord. Such maintenance is effected by the Lord through His different expansions of Self and three principal energies, namely the internal, external and marginal energies. The living entities are His marginal energies, and some of them, in the confidence of the Lord, are entrusted with the work of creation also, as are Brahma, Marici, etc., and the acts of creation are inspired by the Lord unto them

(tene brahma hrda). The external energy (maya) is also impregnated with the jivas, or conditioned souls. The unconditioned marginal potency acts in the spiritual kingdom, and the Lord, by His different plenary expansions, maintains them in different transcendental relations displayed in the spiritual sky. So the one Supreme Personality of Godhead manifests Himself in many (bahu syam), and thus all diversities are in Him, and He is in all diversities, although He is nevertheless different from all of them. That is the inconceivable mystic power of the Lord, and as such everything is simultaneously one with and different from Him by His inconceivable potencies (acintya-bhedabheda-tattva).

The Vedic version

Svetasvatara Upanisad (4.10), mayam tu prakrtim vidyan mayinam tu mahesvaram: "Understand that maya is the material energy whereas the Supreme Lord is the Supreme Lord of maya."

This soul is described as one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair point in size. The Svetasvatara Upanisad (5.9) confirms this:

balagra-sata-bhagasya

satadha kalpitasya ca

bhago jivah vijneyah

sa canantyaya kalpate

"When the upper point of a hair is divided into one hundred parts and again each of such parts is further divided into one hundred parts, each such part is the measurement of the dimension of the spirit soul."

The following verse appears in the Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.11), the Gopala-tapani Upanisad (Uttara 97), and the Brahma Upanisad (4.1):

eko devah sarva-bhutesu gudhah

sarva-vyäi sarva-bhutantaratma

karmadhyaksah sarva-bhutadhivasah

saksi ceta kevalo nirgunas ca

"The one Supreme Lord lives hidden inside all created things. He pervades all matter and sits within the hearts of all living beings. As the indwelling Supersoul, He supervises their material activities. Thus, while having no material qualities Himself, He is the unique witness and giver of consciousness.

See, the Vedic Scriptures knew science when science wasn't even cool. And what I want to know is...what's the sri yantra doing inscribed on the earth in Oregon? Check out the link below!

Thanks for the rest of the words Rachel.

Kenneth, love that big dog, bigger yard statement! You're one of the best meat bodies ever!

Dolcean...I watched your video and it's excellent, only a few misunderstandings from what I could see. And there again...if you are of a certain 'mind' set, you will hear the information that you adhere to and pass over the rest.

So...we are the imaginings of an imaginary brain floating in the nothingness of an imaginary space? Now it's MY turn to laugh.  It's an imaginary laugh. I am you and you are me and we are all the matrix. koo koo ka choo

In fact...this discussion only exists in the mind of the Cosmic Jester.

If you can't see the reality of the 'something' in that nothing...I wonder about your resurrection when the time comes. It is the lazy man who wishes that there is nothing. Even a hologram is SOMETHING, isn't it?

Here is something that we can all ponder...

            http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/ilyes/ilyes9.html

Oregon is within the ring of fire. Do you see the truth in this image?

The triangle represents body, mind and spirit...the overlapping is the way the dimensions of existence interconnect. It is a Cosmic Tapestry. The doorway to within, the dot/point/mustard-seed/pituitary in the center represents the ultimate core. Within this core is what scientists call quark...it's something, it's the point of energy through which all 'illusions' emanate. Some call this the breath of God. If the molecules move...it's because the focus of energy, when becoming connected, is forming the thought that will become a manifestation of a reality. What we are, is as real as your Cosmic Joke. But because the molecules are constantly changing...so is that reality, so in effect it appears to be an illusion. Molecules that have connected are in agreement to the experience.

I think that I've said too much. Well, if it makes YOU laugh then it's got to be good material, eh?

Namaste

Kenneth, your analogy of the dog is not at all what I am referring to. That is a manipulative act designed to control and dominate. A design which will ultimately disempower the user. I am talking of the conscious use of energy to eliminate disease and addiction without pain or discomfort.

Mel, 'Even a hologram is SOMETHING, isn't it?'

Is it?

The lazy man is the one who is blinkered into restricting their 'reality' into the 5% of that which can be measured. And that can only be measured once the 'attention' (something, or nothing?) is placed on that which is thought can be substantially measured.

In 'human' terms, the cosmic joke is the realisation that there are no separate entities. Everything one does, one does to one's self. 'Love your neighbour as your self', not 'like your self'.

As for 'I wonder about your resurrection when the time comes' . . . . . I have no idea what You are talking about.

Mel, you are one of the most well versed people in so much whom I've come across. You seem to be a never ending fount of knowledge about various things.

I'm one of the best meat bodies ever? Yuk! Maybe Pam Anderson is (for straight males). Me no my meat body. Me, me.

One thing I've learned is that a lot of people don't LIKE the idea that a person isn't actually physical because...they can't get their hands on them! You know, you can't control them by threatening to throw them in jail or torture them or execute them to punish them for some crime of some sort. Which is always happening to bodies here and there on the time track.

Remember that statement somebody came up with once that said "I think, therefore I am"? It took me about 3 seconds to change it to "I am, whether I think I am or not". In other words, thinkingness is merely an activity that a person/spirit/being engages in. He is NOT what he thinks. He is the 'thing' that is doing the thinking, the one behind the thinking. No one ever thought themselves into existence. They just ARE. They just BE. Thinking is just one thing you can do. Besides farting, breathing, sweating etc. You might as well say "I fart, therefore I am".

Dolcean, I guess it sounds 'manipulative and dominating'. How about altering or changing someone else's agreement to help them, that doesn't hurt them? Such as 'Bill, you seem to think the world is out to get you (that's his reality at the time). Can you tell me one thing that isn't out to get you in the world? He says "my parakeet". Good. How about another? And so on and so on.
You seem to be sort of stuck on the idea D. that unless one is very very careful we will all be doing harmful things to each other and we must all think the right thoughts and be very very careful to not do anything that will 'attract' bad things to ourselves. This is a created game. The truth is, the whole idea that one can be harmed, either you, me, or any other being is false. It is impossible. It is a game only. A being cannot actually be harmed by anything anyone else does. To play this game he must consider he can be harmed, and that others can be harmed, but it is not actually true.

YAHOO! (as an exclamation of happiness)

This post was modified from its original form on 16 Oct, 5:42

   I fart, therefore I stink...you're too funny, Kenneth.

Well, I learned about that (crop circle, of sorts) from the Om book that came with a CD, that I just got a few weeks ago. I listen to these...variations of om as I drive to and from work. I really like it, it helps put me in a better mood. I'm not real fond of the deep om sounds, like the foghorn on a ship in a harbor, I love the higher octaves. It was recommended in one of Annie Bond's articles.

You're beginning to sound like Krsna telling Arjuna that the demons that he kills in battle are not going to die, because they are spirits.

That's why I love vampire stories...we're kinda like the 'undead' as long as the body is gone.

Dolcean, I'm thinking the same thing about that post of yours, I can't begin to think as abstractly as you...and I'm pretty damn abstract. Well, maybe I only think I am. To me, the illusion that we experience is that we are cellular entities with a specific job...we only call ourselves human and think that we are existing in social situations. The thoughts that we gather from the greater consciousness are not really ours, they belong to the God body. What do ya think of that, Kenneth? A God body. Pamela Anderson is top heavy and unbalanced, don't ya think? Nah, never mind, I think I know what you'll think.

If we ARE one, it's because we make up the body of God...we are Gods...but we are not THE God.

Molecules are nothing until they join, divide, multiply and grow. Like the life that grows in the womb of a woman. But the life doesn't happen unless the timing is perfect and the conditions are right. The woman doesn't even know what's going on until she expands...hmmm, what if the universe is the womb and when a comet enters the Earths atmosphere and penetrates the Earth it impregnates the planet. So when the fetus has grown, and the planet that we live on, which was actually a fertilized egg...developes...we all morph into a whole other life form.

As far as nothing being something?  The space between the dendrites, the nerve endings from which thoughts travel...where the electrical impulses flow...is considered to be God, the in between place that transmits the spark of thought from here to there. I dunno about that...cause I think that anywhere there is a spark, that causes action...is God. The Source of energy that makes our world go round. What we create is initially singular energy that attracts others energy of the same vibration which becomes a manifestation of a dense material substance. The Seth Material says that alternate realities blink in and out, and that's why we can feel like we are remembering past lives. And Deepak Chopra's movie that I just watched 'How To Know God'...was really good, much better than 'What The Blink Do We Know', states that our thoughts are actually God's memories. So I gather, his meaning is that God is the storehouse of knowledge where we can go to become the artists, intellectuals and architects of what we think of as the Earth...just stay out of the 'desire' warehouse,   if ya know what's good for ya. The meat body is an illusion and will slough off.

Hmm..Mel...all I can think of is Pam Anderson being top heavy...yeahhhh...and then your theory that a comet enters the womb of the earth's atmosphere and impregnates the planet...whew, I need a cold shower. Let me take it a bit further and say the 'cold shower' is the cold rain falling down on the erect trees which makes all the rivers flow like blood to the sex organs, and add some heat from the sun and the wind whispering 'oh God, yes, yes!' and I think we could all continue to find sexual connotations in everything, just like Freud did. Which is creative writing but not much more.
We'll never agree about 'the' God, or 'the' Source but that's okay. In the end it doesn't matter what you start out looking at truth as or what you end up looking at truth as, if there's any truth to be known, you're the one who will know it (you, me, Joe Blow, each one). Other than that there isn't any truth. (since you're you and no one else is and no one else can know anything for another person. You have to know it yourself.

The thing about ideas is that they're all created by us. There's an infinite amount of ideas we can create. Which is neat. I mean, there's even one someone came up with that the physical universe is just a speck in the cereal bowl of a giant somewhere. Well, might be, might not. But 'maybe' doesn't get anyone one iota along the road to finding truth. Only certainties.

Kenneth, your presupposition of the idea that I'm 'sort of stuck on the idea that unless one is very very careful we will all be doing harmful things to each other', falls down completely inasmuch that I am coming from a point of there being no 'each other'. That being said, we probably come to the same conclusion via a different route and reality.

Never marry these women
“Redheads. Any girl named after a mountain, a tree, a river or a bird. Ones with rough hands or feet. Ones who sigh, laugh or cry at meals. Any girl with inverted nipples, a beard, uneven breasts, flap ears, spindle legs or who is scrawny. Girls whose big toes are disproportionately small. Girls who make the ground shake when they walk past.”

Koka Shastra, The Indian Scripture of Koka (12th century)

Ha! Hilarious D!

My wife, she's not too bright. She took our car to the store and when she came out somebody had stolen it. I said "honey, did you get a good look at the guy?" She said "no, but I got the license plate number!"

Sorry, guys, this is all getting to complicated for me! I think it's the fact that I speak my first language using only 125 words for 5 hours every day!!! Or maybe I'm tired of complications: I'm really craving simplicity.

Maybe your wife was being facetious, Kenneth, no? I wouldn't be impressed if my husband told strangers that I said a dumb thing. Does she mind?

Dolcean, I would like to know about creating things in this reality by the power of intention. Sounds like you know about that. How do you go about it? My friend does it all the time and things come up before her eyes in the space of a half hour, the next day, in the next week! I am in the process of looking for a car for me. I sent that out in intention, a car that I can use in pursuing my life's purpose, and as well worked on some inner blocks to having good material things in my life. I think it'll come to me soon. I saw some good options today!

Also I'm on the worldgratitude.com/gforum. It's all these awesome people sharing what they are thankful for and seeing the power of gratitude at work in our lives. I'm inviting you all to join!! There are still several weeks left in the 42 day event. I'm really thankful for the people there and daily messages. They're so inspiring and help me to be a better person.


Have a great day guys! love and peace, Rachel.

Dolceanstar, that's hilarious what you wrote about the women not to marry! I wonder how they carried on their own line??? Were there that many non spindly, non flap eared women to choose from? Rachel

 Ken, was her license plate PMS 24-7  It just drove past my house and there was...of all people...Pamela Anderson. She was trying to get her hands on the steering wheel, but a couple of boobs kept getting in her way.  They were Thing One and Thing Two.

 Dolcean, Dahlink...I am none of those things. So, lets get married.

Last time I proposed, he disappeared for months! Nearly broke my little, angel heart.  

Yeah, pretty weird stuff...I was reading some Zorastrian scriptures a week or so ago, and they'd actually kill a man for touching a woman who was, uhm 'men'struating.  Sometimes, it really sucks to be a woman, but I feel sorry for guys...they only have one hangy down thingy and women have two!  Neener, neener.

  I really miss Sarvo Pama, he'd be telling us that we could be putting our cocktail chatter to better use.   

Rachel, did you find that blue car yet? Don't be surprised if Pamela Anderson pulls into your driveway...of course, Kenneth will be driving. He's on the high end of the Americas, just like you.

Namaste

Let's get our heads out of the meat body!

Mel . . . marry You??????

Just because it doesn't state, in the scriptures, that it isn't allowed, doesn't mean that it is.

You know that I cannot think of anything more delicious than a sinful life with You!!!!

Creative intention . . . . Rachel, everything You experience is creative intention. Even the 'things' undesired.

And I think I know what You mean. The attitude.

Some years ago, when I was a fisherman, we beached the boats to treat and paint the bottoms. Lunchtime, four of us sat in the sand, eating sandwiches and drinking Guinness. Someone suggested throwing stones and aiming for the mast of a boat moored about 30 metres from the shore. Bobbing boat in the distance and a warm summer drowsy head . . . sure I'm going to hit the mast with a pebble.

I lazily threw and . . . it hit!!! Flook.

Couldn't happen again . . . . it did!!!

Five times I threw without a thought of attachment of hitting the mast. Five times I hit the mast . . . . and I am the only one, everyone else is way off the mark.

Then I think, 'Hey, You are good at this!'

From the moment I had that thought, I could not hit that mast.

There's a simple phrase that I use a lot, for a lot of situations and it is definately a 'one size fits all' for not only 'creative intention' but for relationships or sometimes 'just getting thru' . . . . .

'You cannot have what You are not willing not to have'

Ha! Good one D. I'll have to remember that one!

Actually Rachel, that was a Rodney Dangerfield joke. I'm not married (currently).

D., since I think you have three negatives in your 'have' sentence, does it actually boil down to 'you can have what you are willing to have?'?

This isn't one of those 'what is the sound of one hand clapping' is it? (I know it isn't, I just used it as a segue into this). It didn't take me long to realize the 'one hand clapping' thing ain't profound, it's just a trick of changing the definitions of words people have agreed on within a sentence. I came up with a couple of my own such as "What does a three-legged dog look like when running on all fours?" or "What is the sound of a dog purring?" Not profound, just stupid.

One time when I used to smoke, a long time ago, I was standing in a kitchen, and the unlit cigarette I was about to put in my mouth fell out of my hand, and would you believe it hit the floor bounced up a bit and ended standing up on it's end!

Creative intention of which D and Rachel speak is absolutely true. Everybody does it all the time to varying degrees. Natively it's what works all the time in one's own universe. You know, let there be light and there is (in your universe). I am a cowboy, and I am (in your own universe). That's because each person natively is Cause, and what he says, goes in his universe. However, it doesn't always occur like that in the physical universe. You know, let there be a million dollars in my hand right now...and there isn't. So, the task is to be able to do it better and better in the physical universe, improve it as an ability, not to have it just happen indiscriminately, or not have it under your control, or not know that you're doing it when you're doing it etc. That's the task.

Kenneth . . . . the sentence doesn't work in any other way, other than the way I wrote it.

Aha, okay.

No, sorry Dolceanstar, I think Kenneth is right. You have an extra not... You wrote: 'You cannot have what You are not willing not to have' I edited it out of my mind when I read it the first time lol! Don't you mean "You cannot have what You are not willing to have."? Just laugh at yourself and move on. Unless you really meant it that way, but the way it's written is not nearly as inspiring as it is with OUT the extra not! So, I do hope the extra not, was not un-intentional. NOT!!!! hehe. Rachel.

OK, Ken, you're off the hook. If you REALLy were talking about your wife, I'd have to call her and tell on you! (Hey she's SOMEwhere in Canada, I should be able to find her... Hmmmm. Rachel

Oh, yeah, Ken is not married!

Hey, Mel. If Dolceanstar doesn't want to marry you, maybe you can ask Ken! lol! hahehah

Dolceanstar (where did you get your name, anyway?), that is really cool that you threw the rock and it hit!!! I have not had that experience of repeated success just because of intention. ... or maybe with catching popcorn in my mouth. I could have done that then. but I always try so hard, imagine it going in and try to sense where it is.. then it goes in. But it's not the same.

Actually, your detached state sounds like it might have more success than mine. What I was thinking of is where you intend something and then open yourself for it to happen. And it does! Or it does for Charlotte anyway!

Better go. My apartment suddenly went from needing to wear a sweater to roasting, wishing I had curtains on my kitchen window so I could strip down!! (don't imagine that in too much detail!!! Hehe, Pamela might get mad! Haha, sorry!) Guess they turned on the heat for the winter! Good thing, but I think I'll be sleeping with my window open all winter!

Take care! Peace and love to you and all. Rachel

Rachel, Kenneth . . . . You are both approaching it from a logical linguistic viewpoint. If You relax that, it makes perfect sense.

Besides, the words used encompass, as Rachel terms it, a totally detached state. "You cannot have what You are not willing to have", whilst may be true, does not embrace all the elements for 'creative' intention.

I don't know if if it is true or not, but knowing what I do know, I find it difficult to discount. When JFK ordered an American on the Moon in 10 years, he insisted that exactly the same resources were available to those who would prove that it was impossible as to those that would prove it was.

Incidently, the phrase, 'You cannot have what You are not willing not to have', is used by Denzel Washington in the movie 'Hurricane'. It is the scene where he is offered a way out of jail that does not involve a pardon. He chooses to go back to jail because he knows that although he could be released, he would not be free.

I did agree with your initial phrasing, D. Rachel spoke for me, bad girl! Rachel, did you say something about stripping down? (I must stop being a man for a moment!).

I would say the statement "You must be willing to have, and willing to not have" would fill the bill D. or equate what your and Denzel's statement was. Correct?

It's sort of like a statement that a very wise person once made regarding getting out of the physical universe. Because it ia universe of force, one can't get out of it by being weak about using force or denying oneself to use force...one must be able to come up to being able to handle any and all force and yet never have to depend on it for a second. (paraphrased)

Ok, ok. I get it! I'm running that line over and over in my mind now trying to get it. I mean properly, cause I do get it. I just have to get my mind around it.

Hey Mel, where are you? I feel out-testosteroned! LOL

OK, got to go. Hoping to find my dream car, yes thanks Mel, in the prettiest shade of blue! Rachel

No fair! I miss out on all the fun while I'm at work.

Be still my heart. He is even a fisherman.  Rachel, can I be like King Solomon and have 700 dahlink men. I checked Kenneth's profile, evidently not very well. Usually all the good guys are married or committed or SHOULD be.  

So, when can I spirit you away, Kenneth?

Geeze...I sound like I'm in heat or something. Give me a week and I'll be back to my abnormal self. They say it's seven days coming, seven days in and seven days out.

But when you all start getting English major on me, I just want to read between the lines...that's where the real excitement is, don't cha think?

What's wrong with this?

'You cannot have what You are not willing not to have'

 It's perfectly understandable, and sums up my entire life. Two nots don't make a wrong. They don't make a right either.

So, Rachel...if I calls meself Melli   does that make me a language?

Loved that response that you told your window installation man, Dolcean. Soooo. that's just a pic and not really you! You aren't blond! Or even blonde!

Dolcean...isn't that Spanish for sweetheart? It may also be a name for a star or constellation.

Well, we do sabotage ourselves with negative thoughts...I wonder why that happens? But I have a friend who comes into work and sprays her desk and keyboard, because she's afraid of germs. It's odd to me...cause we're basically coagulated dirtballs, anyway.  We have more germs and bacteria crawling all over us...we might as well make friends with them. Germans had the right idea, they actually named themselves. That's how to make friends with your fears.

 There goes Rachel in her blue car.

Oh You Darling coagulated dirtballs!!!

As a kid, I could never work out adult logic (still can't for the most part). 'They' all told me to wash my hands after taking a leak. Seemed to me that my cock was cleanly packaged away in daily laundered underpants whilst my hands . . . . who knows where they had been? So surely it was more sensible to wash my hands before, rather than after, I pee?

When I questioned adults on this, adults being adults would reply, 'Well, wash before and after . . .  if You must!'.

Typical . . . . just a shiver away from OCD, just to be 'right'.

Mel . . . . 'commitment' is a state of being, not a state of mind. And it is a state of being alien to most men whilst it is 'normal' to women. A man can reach commitment through direct experience with a woman but not through choice. When a woman says she wants a commited relationship and a man agrees, he, more often than not, has no idea what she is talking about. But he agrees. He agrees because he can see he is going to get his needs met if he does. Sex, laundry, cooked meals . . . . whatever his 'needs' are. Thing is, he's lied, sold himself out, been tamed and is of very little further interest to his 'wife'.

Nooooo . . . . commitment is like a cat. You don't choose it, it chooses You. And if You are fortunate enough . . . . life is heaven.

You cannot force heaven.

'He is even a fisherman'

sometimes . . . . .

at the moment he is a carpenter

but no need to get knickers in a twist!

OK...but I'm still 'reeling' from the 'life of sin' bit.   If you can feed the multitudes on a few loaves of bread and a handful of fish, and walk on water...I'm holy rollin on over, twisted knockers and all...i mean knickers.    

So then, for women folk, this should be...

'You cannot have what You are willing not to have'

I feel I must say the 'man's prayer' here...

"I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess".


(incidentally the woman's prayer is..."I'm a woman, hear me roar, I'm in charge, so get used to it".

  Washing hands before and after! Probably should even say a prayer before unfolding the nicely packaged, spic & span tool. I've heard that some mummys will tell their little darlings to dab the dribble with a bit of tissue. Not me, I think that a good shake is good for what lingers...just don't get any in your eye.

After I took my son to the barber...he used to chant, grow hair, grow.  I love a kids reasoning power.  

Well, commitment does seem to be going out of style, and if you believe in reincarnation, or even dimensional existence...changing the skin that we wear is common practice. Spirit is spirit no matter what gender it wears, and experiencing each one requires deliberate attempts to understand those differences and needs. And although some think that you become that which you love...my belief is contrary, although I'm sure that there are exceptions to every rule. I think that we become the one that we have misunderstood and mistreated, basically to feel what our action has created emotionally.   

We have become such a lazy people, wanting what we want, without too much consideration to the other. At least, I find that ugly trait in myself, which is why at this point in my life I don't want to commit myself to that which I think that I want.

'I think that we become the one that we have misunderstood and mistreated'

Exactly . . . . but this process takes place as we take leave of this incarnation.

That is the Cosmic Joke . . . that we ever thought we were any other than those that we misunderstood, mistreated, helped, hindered, loved or hated. And with that punchline, with that realisation, comes a state of grace that steps out of any bondage or ties to karma.

Don't want nothin fancy
Don't need nothin new
Nothing too expensive
Just a sinful life with you
Give me something borrowed
I'll buy you something blue
I'll trade this life of sorrow
For a sinful life with you

Sinful life -- a sinful life with you
No promises of paradise
Just a sinful life with you
Sinful life -- a sinful life with you
No promises of paradise
Just a sinful life with you

Marley was a Rasta
Moses was a Jew
Jesus was an outlaw
Just like me & you
Let love be our religion
Until this life is through
The next best thing to heaven
Is a sinful life with you
Sinful life -- a sinful life with you
The next best thing to heaven
Is a sinful life with you
Sinful life -- a sinful life with you
The next best thing to heaven
Is a sinful life with you

You wrote: What's wrong with this?

'You cannot have what You are not willing not to have'

It's perfectly understandable, and sums up my entire life. Two nots don't make a wrong. They don't make a right either."
"
Yeah, OK, it just took some getting used to!

"So, Rachel...if I calls meself Melli does that make me a language?"

Sure! And if you call yourself Mellu, you can found a new religion!!! hehe! Rachu

Rachel, Melli, Mellu and Rachu . . . . sounds like a cult!!!

I love you, fun to be around people! And if you are all me...that means I love myself, and I think I'm grand!

That is a good cosmic joke!  Just can't...quite...get there with it.

Those are cool lyrics for a song, though...I'm going to go find it on my music fetish site. I want to hear it.

Kenneth, I've never been in charge...my whole life! What kind of women have you been associating with, darlin'?  If they look like Pamela Anderson...no wonder.

I'll never forget the time I went into a fast food store with my ex-hubby. There was a beautiful young girl who came in, (she was only a tad more beautiful than me...but according to Dolcean, she was me anyway...I just didn't know it then. ) She walked past him and that was it. His eyes were glued to her, his mouth hung open as if something had tickled his crotch. He had dry mouth and kept smacking his lips like an old toothless geezer sucking on a caramel.  If I'd been a mean woman, in charge of the situation, I'd have grabbed him by the ear and marched him out of there and made him suffer for a week.  But being the loving gal that I am, I didn't touch his ear, I only made him suffer. I can't remember how long...maybe a month, but very subtly. I'd whisper other mens names in the middle of his orgasm, or pleasure myself noisily after waiting for him to fall asleep.      Nah, I didn't do any of that.   Honest. The only thing this woman is in charge of is cleaning house. And that's the sad truth... I'm the female version of a Walter Mitty.

So my cult will be the Ultimate Mittu Cult. The goal is to recognize self in the other...and try not to scream. 

HAHAHAHA!!!!!! Thanks for making me laugh before going to bed!!!! haha! You should'a done it! The Ultimate Mittu Cult hahaha! I don't know Walter Mitty though. Hmmm... ! Is he a good guy?

No problem Dolceanstaru, we can get you there too. Do you speak Dolceanstari? (Please pardon I now wax English majory... That is very linguistically correct, to make a world language name by adding i. For ex. Afghani, Somali, Hindi (yeah we said that already , and other ones... I forget. Oh, sorry, Afghani is a nationality. But the language is Farsi! Maybe, Melissa, you can be a citizen of Mell. Hence Melli. Yeah! ANyways, there ya go! Language lesson for the day!)

Oh, this reminds me of a sweet little girl I once knew at a daycare where I worked... oh what was her name? I can picture her. A beautiful little child, with bright grey blue eyes, and dark long straight hair, She was 3 or 4 and she called me Rachellie! It was a francophone daycare so they called me Rachelle, with a sh sound, not Rachel. Add ee and you'll get the sound. So sweet. She was half Indian like me, so she used to do these little Punjabi(see?!!) dance moves and then look at me out of the corner of her eye to see if I was watching! haha! Jenna. That's right. Jenna. What a sweet kid. And she brought sticky bindis for all the girls one time! She put them on the boys too, it was so cute! Those are the little dots in the middle of Indian women's foreheads. I loved her. I miss all those children. Tehy were mine for a bit!!! Then I had to give them back to their parents boo hoo! It's the opposite of the auntie stereotype wehre you spoil them and give them back.


heha. Ahhh, OK, well thanks for letting me reminisce in your esteemed presences sometimes I have to go off on a tangent.

But, actually, in parts of India, they put u at the end as a term of endearment, ex. Not Nirangala, but Niru. Not Afaque, but Afu (that was the unfortunate name my friend's friend gave her boy!!! Try saying that name in English!) Not Neena, but Neenu. So, you could put that on your name, and not be a religion!

Talk to ya later, love and light, Rachel

Rachelle, I am too curious, please.   Send me a picture of you! We've been friends for all this time and you have never put a pic up. Don't let me die of curiosity!
 
Yes, I Know...Rajanji, my friend from Positive Thinking told us that we should address Gandhi as Gandhiji, as a term of endearment and love. I like it.
 
Well, Dolcean...I found some of the Tinbuk3 music, but NOT the Sinful Life. What I did find was something only the Brits would do...but it is funny. It's not quite as funny as old Benny Hill who made me laugh until I wet me knickers.
But I think that even Jesus would snicker at this.
 
 

Mitty is a meek, mild man with a vivid fantasy life. I grew up watching Danny Kaye portray him.

Hehee That made me smile Everything goes tapaka tapaka.. He's fun, eh? I'll have to see if the library has his films. I payed off my giant fine, so I can stop avoiding the library now hehe.



Is that meek and mild, and is that a good way to be? I don't think that is what Jesus was like, incidentally. ...! OK, got to get to sleep,



Re. photo, I'm not sure how to upload one and haven't wanted to for security reasons, but now that I think of it, no one knows where I live, do you? Or the name of my town, or how many churches and bars we have? If you know, Mel, don't tell!!! Seriously.



Yeah, they call people ji at the end to show respect and affection. I've had people call me Rachelji. It sounds funny! And to say yes politely, you say ji hanh. Hanh is yes.



Culturally I'm not Indian... My Mom's ancestors left there 200 years ago at least, maybe longer ago. But they went to Trinidad and mixed up with all the other people and came out a beautifiul new culture! There are similarities of course and it's interesting to note where each element came from. And of course I grew up just Canadian like any other Canadian kid, but when is life ever like everyone elses? And would you want it to be? My Dad grew up in India as a son of missionaries, so that's why I know more about India. he was 15 when he left, so he told us a lot of stories.



And my best friend is Indian, and other friends I have known.



Yeah, I guess I can put up a picture... I AM beautiful, so I should grace you with my lovely image hehe



It's nice to know what you look like, Melissa, and Kenneth and Dolceanstar and Mahabala and Frances - you there Frances?



Have a nice night everyone! I think I can sleep now it's 1147pm....! love, Rachel.


PS, I didn't like the spoof on Jesus, I don't think they should make stuff like that. It's not my taste. The Christian story is misunderstood and misrepresented quite enough without people making him seem ... like he was using his spiritual influence to get licked by prostitutes.

I danced with a Masai once does that make me . . . . oh never mind!!!

Going into stores with 'partners' . . . . that is so much fun!!!

First, You pretend You are not together. Then, You make sure You buy something at the same department (works best in those kind of 'island' sections, where assistants stand in middle) but . . . You get served first.

As the assistant is totalling the bill You say, 'And add anything that beautiful woman/handsome man standing over there wants'. Keep playing it out like You were strangers but walk off arm in arm.

Sure cure for a wandering (bored and lazy) eye and plays havoc with the shop assistant's minds.

Dolceanstari is a very easy language to learn, once one has adopted an obliquatory stance . . . .

Hovis Presley . . . .

OK...It's time to close down this thread. We can view it but not post on it. Frances started a new one...

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=2096&pst=944522&saved=1

Sorry, about the Jesus vid, Rachel. I won't do it again. And you're right, Jesus couldn't possibly have been a Walter Mitty type...that comment was about me.

See ya all on Part 2!