I would like to know how this is racist???

I think she needs a lesson in history. The Boston Tea party was about Taxes. I wonder where she went to school?

For information, if you don't already know, wikipedia is an okay source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tea_Party

Candace, she didn't say anything that should make you believe she doesn't know what the Boston Tea Party was about.  She said the 'tea baggers' don't know what the Boston Tea Party was about.  I think it would be interesting if someone would poll the tea baggers to see just how many 'do' know what the BTP was about.  Certainly some do, but I'll bet most don't.

I can't say everyone who supports the tea-bagger's platform is a racist, people who are against over-taxation number in the 10's of millions, but 10's of millions of people are not showing up for the tea parties so I find it hard to believe that the reason not all but most of the people showing up at these tea parties isn't racially motivated.

To be clear - NO, I do not believe all tea-baggers are racists and bigots.

I think the tea parties of today are more about corporatist elites enlisting the common people to betray their own best interests with false rhetoric. Waaaaaaay different from the Boston Tea Party, which was a real protest against unjust taxation for the benefit of a corporate monopoly enforced by the state.

Just my preception. Unless and until the people wake up and realize that the corporate elites are their ENEMY, they will continue to be exploited and abused. And that's a worse problem than the racism Ms. Garofalo spoke of.

I'm not really going to say anything new, so I just have a request. Being a member of the Tea Party movement, if just for the sake of this thread we could refrain from calling them tea baggers. Everytime I hear it I just feel something build up in my throat. I don't want to censor free speech but I just thought I'd ask out of some respect and courtesy. Thanks

I find her comments to be outrageous.  She is more uninformed about what the tea parties are than the "tea party" people seem to be about their history.  She is filled with sh*t.

(and I used to like her as a comic).

And Suzanne, you called me on it last week and rightfully so, but YES, I am tired of the word racist.  I know enough to knwo that the tea Parties have nothing to do with racism.

As Dale (Moonbat) can attest to, I can't view videos on my computer...just too frustrating.  But by your reaction Nancy, I think my blood pressure probably would have risen to unhealthy levels.  While I absolutely agree some of those that attend are racist and their signs are truly offensive.  They are not what makes the tea party movement.

to you Ms. Nancy

Many Green stars to Nancy. I completely agree

I don't know much about this movement to be fair. However, I tried to watch the video as best I could (seem to have the same problem as Suzanne)  I am sure that some people involved in this tea party thing are racist bigots. I am equally sure that most of them probably are not. What I DID find a bit offensive was the way this lady was trying somehow to put forward some sort of argument that right wing people have some kind of neurological problem........or did I get that wrong????

Lynn, it's a shame that the both the right and the left feel the need to present each others lack of intelligence or mental stability in any argument relating to differences.  Really has no bearing on the subject.  It is what it is.  You take it from where it comes.

Dale, the tea party-ers 'issues' run the gamut, and this video speeks volumes, loudly:

Katii -

I wish I could view the video, I am sure it is some interesting commentary from one of America's finer members. 

Suzanne, are you not able to view video at all or just here at c2?  Here's the link if you can view at it's source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

OK, sorry Suzanne I just now read that you can't view any vids on your puter.  That just royally sucks

Janeane Garofalo needs to do some studying and fact-finding before she shoots off her mouth.  IMO.

If I may I'd like to say something about the charge that Tea Parties are racist.

The short answer and the long answer are, "No."

Are there racists at these gatherings or some of these gatherings?  My opinion is, there are racists at every gathering wherever people gather: At the supermarket, at the bowling alley, at the ball game, at any political rally for any candidate.  Why?  because we have racists in our society, IMO, of all kinds and types.

But are the Tea Parties, essentially, racist?  I say no and I think the charge is unfair and tries to deflect the real anger and concern many people have for how our government is dealing with their concerns.

We can't blame everything on racism - and we shouldn't.

We should, IMO, listen to rational people, no matter what their political affiliation is, and listen, listen to their concerns.  IMO, everyone has a right to he heard, fairly - on all sides.

Tea Party participants are part of the process of dialogue I think we need - between all sides - to get our problems solved.  That's how I see it.

  Knate

This post was modified from its original form on 22 Oct, 12:18

Nobody here has said that "tea partiers are all racists" ... I don't even think Garofalo believes "all" people attending the tea parties are racists (as she did referenced), but if you watch the video I posted you will certainly see some righteous anger, meaning, IMO, they are right to be angry about some of the issues they are protesting, but you'll see some bigotry as well embarrassing ignorance as well.

Another:

Dear Katii,

As to the charge that the Tea Parties and the participants of the Tea Parties are racists, I have heard that charge over and over and over again.

I believe - like you just said - most of the people have a right to express their anger over issues that concern them.

The fact that some attending the Tea Parties may be racists is very unfortunate.  But, like i said before, any gathering of people will include racists.

I think we should focus on people at Tea Parties - and those who don't attend - to LISTEN to each each and to dialogue respectfully with each other.  We all want the problems solved - and we should not allow our anger to work to control our behavior and keep us from reaching mutual solutions.  I say, let's be angry at what is wrong but let's work together to make it right.

"Lynn, it's a shame that the both the right and the left feel the need to present each others lack of intelligence or mental stability in any argument relating to differences."  Suzanne

I completely agree.  While I am more liberal and Suzanne is more conservative.  I do find her posts to be far more intelligent and certainly more open mided and far than many of the "liberals" I have seen "out there".  That I think is true for most people here in LR +B.  Why don't we explore the history rather than making fake racists claims as Janane Garafalo had done.

All it turns into is a name-calling fest.  It is counterproductive. 

And I do think that most of the citizens of the US are angry at the govenrment for something or other.  Talk about what is making us angry and how to fix it rather than just Bashing people.

Dear Nancy and Suzanne,

A MAJOR issue with me - and something that peeves me to no end - is when people here at LR&B, or people anywhere, refer to those who disagree with them as being "mentally unstable" or lacking intelligence. I have tried to eliminate that sort of counterproductive dialogue from LR&B - and mostly, everyone cooperates and treats each other with basic respect.

However, there still may be a tiny few people whose modus operandi is to denigrate the personalities of others or imply or call anyone who disagrees with them, "stupid" or a "moron."  Most of you, I know, feel as I do.  We must eliminate this tactic from this group.

So I am asking for your help.

I can't be here all the time.  But if you see someone making that kind of a personal attack on another member... ...or if you are personally attacked or referred to in that way, PLEASE do not respond in kind. Please, rather, in a polite way ask the person using that tactic to please stop.

I know the force of member opinion will work better to eliminate personal invectives from this group than any rules I may institute.

You want this group to be a group where we treat each other in a civil manner, where you are respected and others are respected; where we can forcefully disagree on opinions and facts, but do so in a respectful and adult manner.

I will do what I can but I ask you, all our members, to please help. 

Let's work together to continue to make all opinions welcome, all people welcome, without the personally demeaning attacks that hurt us all.

A big Thank You! to all of you who do interact, disagree, argue, debate, strongly challenge each other and discuss and do it with mutual respect.  I am learning something new from you every day. 

How about the three strike rule Kneight? Three strikes and you are out? OOOps - would get me kicked to the curb pretty quick ....

There are some here who are not here to debate or discuss or share anything - they are here simply to belittle and demean .... that is a fact Kneight .... this is an excellent group but sometimes you have to sacrifice a 'couple' for the good of the whole .... and if it means I am gone - so be it my friend - I will understand and I understand you understand what it is I am saying ....

I personally don't think those who disagree with me are dumb/mentally unstable. And the only reason we see it so much in the media is because once the first stone was cast, it was just going to continue to rain rocks of ill-will on both sides sadly

As to the charge that the Tea Parties and the participants of the Tea Parties are racists, I have heard that charge over and over and over again. ~Knate

What I hear over and over again is people making that accusation.  I don't spend alot of time listening to or reading political opinions in general (except here), but honestly, Garofalo is the first person I've heard say or imply that 'all' tea party-ers are racists or, as she referenced in the video, lead by or influenced by racists (copenhagen syndrom).

But to claim or imply that none of the party goers aren't openly racist and bigoted would be wrong.  Of course there are racists in any gathering, large or small, but they don't carry signs advertising it like we've seen at some tea party rallies, like these:

Dear Northern,

I will be blunt.  I would rather, at this time, use public member pressure than make strict rules and toss people out. I am not going to make that kind of rule.

I always stress this and I will keep stressing this:    If a person feels here they are attacked, please do not respond!  This is the Internet; you're lives are not at stake.  It's not reality. I don't want to hear how people feel they can't not respond in kind to an attack.  I don't want to hear the BS that one's honor is at stake.  This isn't medieval Europe.  This isn't the dueling field.  Yes, one can decide NOT to respond.  It's a choice.

.........

If someone doesn't act like an adult, responding like a child is not the answer.  We need to work together, Northern, all of us, me included, to improve the atmosphere in this group.  Blaming someone else for starting a fight doesn't make responding with a fight justified. That is not justification.

.........

Right now we have 110 members.  How many use the childish tactic of personally demeaning people who disagree with them?  How many?  Two or three?  Maybe two or three?  Less than 1 per cent of our members?  That's one hell of a lot better than the real world.

I think the majority here can exert their influence on those two or three to "help" them discuss and post issues in a better way.    Responding in kind does not work and, frankly, I view the responder in a less respectful light than the person who starts a fight.  It doesn't become a fight unless someone responds.

People need to learn how to not respond to attacks, as much as people need to learn how to not start fights. This is the Internet.  It is not the real world. No one is in your living room sticking their finger in your eye or kicking you in the butt.

Yes, I will be blunt to everyone. And this message goes to me, too, because I can be as much of a hothead as anyone....

Grow up.  Grow up.  Don't use personally demeaning tactics against others.  Grow up.  Don't think we're justified to personally attack someone else because they do it to "me."  Let's grow up.

Honorable people who really care about honor do not respond with demeaning attacks on others when they are demeaned first.  Honorable people stand above that kind of pettiness - and honorable people work together, positively, to eliminate that kind of childish behavior when it appears.

A rule that ends up tossing people out may be, sometimes, an effective rule, temporarily...but it is a rule that has failed. We need success; not failure.

Mutual cooperation here, by all of us, to avoid attacking others - and, mostly, avoid responding to attacks - is the best way, the most honorable, the most productive way to deal with this.

I say to everyone who is ever attacked, rise above it.  Don't go down to the level of the attacker.  Rise above it.     You want to eliminate that kind of tactic from this group?  Rise above it!  That is what will work.

I feel just like anti war protest were discredited because of "hippie" and "radical left" participants,the point behind the Tea Parties is being obscured by a few..

Dear David,

You make an excellent point.

Dear Katii,

I hope you're not addressing that post towards what I said because I never said there were no racists at Tea Parties.  I certainly did not.  I said the opposite.  I did not say or imply there are no racists at Tea Parties.  If anyone says I did, they can please read exactly what I said in my posts.

This is the SAME issue, IMO, I am discussing with Northern, about this group.

Tea Parties should not be judged by the few who are racists.  And this group should not be judged by the very few who use infantile tactics of attacking and demeaning other members.

How to deal with racists at Tea Parties?  Marginalize them.  Reject them and their tactics.  How to deal with the few here who personally demean other members.  Marginalize them.  Reject them and their tactics.

We do not live in a perfect world surrounded by perfect people.  In fact, each of us, I doubt, is perfect.  But we must work together to better ourselves - work together to eliminate our faults - our racism, or personally demeaning attacks on others.

We must work together to realize that the vast majority of us are good people, reasonable people, intelligent people, people who have a right to be heard, people who deserve better, and people who are willing to respect others.  That is true in this group.  That is true at Tea Parties.

That is my opinion.

I feel just like anti war protest were discredited because of "hippie" and "radical left" participants,the point behind the Tea Parties is being obscured by a few..

That is an excellent point, David

I never said there were no racists at Tea Parties.  I certainly did not.  I said the opposite.  I did not say or imply there are no racists at Tea Parties.

I've never seen you say that and I would never put words in your mouth or anyone elses.  I was responding with my personal observations relative to but in contrast to what you were saying in the portion I quoted (if that makes sense).

Anyone can cherry pick photographs and news when it comes to events the President does not want the truth told about. Are there racists in the Tea Party Movement? Sure - just like they exists in the Democratic party .... Is it right? Absolutely not but I thought I would post some photographs that tell the real story of those protests .... This is what the MAJORITY were protesting ....

THIS ONE IS MY FAVORITE!!!!

Northern, posting the 'racist' signs from the tea parties is not 'cherry picking' per se, it's choosing the racist signs to illustrate a point - just like you have 'chosen' the signs to illustrate your point.  But, the truth is both of our points are valid so try to marginalize the racist signs at the tea parties by accusing a 'cherry pick' is not fair.

Northern, someone needs to show the holder of your favorite sign the racist signs, which are why people are accusing the racists at the tea parties of being racist.

I can totally appreciate the angst non-racists feel about the accusations, I certainly wouldn't want such a thing associated with any cause I was supporting - I would be mortified and would loudly denounce it - so I can empathize, but trying to deny there are racists waving racist signs at the tea party rallies (at least the parties where these signs are seen) is abit silly.

Instead of tea party supporters wasting so much time denying the undeniable I think it would serve my American brothers and sisters, whom I whole-heartedly support on the issues of taxation and an oppressive, over-bloated government that thumbs it's nose at our Constitution (yep, I said the C word again ), I think these patriots would serve themselves and everyone else better if they straight-up denounced it.

I think there is a racist element at some of the tea bag parties, but I don't think it is everybody and I think some of the gatherings have no racists at all (at least no more open racists than the local mall would have some racists as Knate stated).

I saw news accounts of some racists and some anti-tax protesters, and accounts seemed to differ.  I'll never know anywhere near the exact proportions, and it is not really possible to know.

But, people from this group provided some info that matched what I had suspected and also informed my opinions on the rallies. 

There were some legitimate people with some opinions, some of which I disagree with but legitimate opinions nonetheless, and some places there were racists.  I'm not going to hold the racists' behavior against everyone who was at these rallies.

And just for Suzanne I managed to avoid calling them t**b******, even though I thought that was what they were calling themselves.

"I think there is a racist element at some of the tea bag parties, but I don't think it is everybody and I think some of the gatherings have no racists at all (at least no more open racists than the local mall would have some racists as Knate stated)."Kevin

"And just for Suzanne I managed to avoid calling them t**b******, even though I thought that was what they were calling themselves."  Kevin

Kevin, I appreciate the effort and the words.  I mean that sincerely.  I don't think they like to be called that (I know I don't) maybe some of the racist element doesn't mind.  I don't think they'd be all that smart any way.  When I hear that term I am so reminded of the other kind of bag. 

Really thanks for the intended consideration....still smiling.

Since there are racists in any group, and since the definition of racist probably includes all of us if we were in the public light, I'd say the claim that there is a racist tone to the tea parties probably has little meaning. The people I see at these events remind me of ordinary people I see everyday; I'm sure the vast majority by my definition would not be racist.

I remember Colin Powell on one of the Sunday shows. One of his unusual reason's for supporting Obama was because some racist comments were yelled out at a McCain rally. This is too easy a way to discredit any group. Have you heard some of the Obama supporters?

"Kevin, I appreciate the effort and the words.  I mean that sincerely.  I don't think they like to be called that (I know I don't) maybe some of the racist element doesn't mind.  I don't think they'd be all that smart any way.  When I hear that term I am so reminded of the other kind of bag. 

Really thanks for the intended consideration....still smiling."--Suzanne

You're welcome.  By making the words "t** b** p******" were you pointing out that I had used the term?

I'm sorry, but I thought only the t** b****** (rhymes with glee naggers) was the problem not the words I did use.

I think it's the B word that is the issue, Kevin

By the way, Suzanne, I don't like the B word either, like I can't stand the words "birthers" and "truthers," they sound cheap and condescending to me, but like Kevin, I thought it was a word the tea party people used themselves. 

Oh... the B word. (Good one)

I should learn to avoid the B words in general.

I wonder if Meredith Brooks is going to write a song about those parties.

I posted here a while ago but it didn't show up.  Just wanted to say thanks for the consideration.
 
Katii - I don't like labels either.
 
Still smiling...........

THIS ONE IS MY FAVORITE!!!!--- Northern

Oh my, That Sign Is Amazing!! LMAO!

This is what was to be feared though about a president of any other ethnicity coming into office.

I think it's a great idea actually(I repeat, GREAT IDEA) that whites no longer control politics. Other people do have great ideas and opinions and just the same right to hold the office of preisdent. What I mean by "the fear" is th racial divide it would further cause.

I am well aware that there will be racism anywhere, anytime, by anyone. I myself have been descriminated against for being white(point is, not only whites are racist). But for closed minded individuals who do not take the time to run polls, pictures of signs, or capture at least one opinion for everyone there at a protest, you could not possibly know that they are all(or the majority) racist.

THose same closed minded individuals who are calling the majority in the protest racist, sadly fuel the fire of the divide. None of this is President Obamas fault ofcourse. So I am not going to blame anything any celebrity, news anchor, or individual says that's either racist or calling someone racist, on him.

I'm just merely stating that with the change of the tradition we had(A wrong tradition where only WHITE MALES were in office), sadly it would cause a divide for awhile.

I believe it would be the same divide had a woman became president. The issue wouldn't be racism, but gender bias. Or if a person of a non-christian faith became president, it would be an attack on faith.

All I can hope for is that all this non-sense quickly disappears. Yes, as long as people see in color there will always be racism/prejudice. But I personally believe that those racist/prejudice people do not make up the majority of Americans

I think she needs a lesson in history. The Boston Tea party was about Taxes. I wonder where she went to school?

Candance:

About 2:20 seconds into the clip she proclaims. 'taxation without representation or whatever history lesson needs to be employed.'

At around 3:20 she states the Republican party has the part of ignorance, apathy, hate and fear.

Kevvie has trouble with correct terms like "tea party" . We can just keep pointing out his silliness until he gets it right.


He probably thinks that they had a ''teabag'' on the Boston wharf in 1773, too.

Thank you, Anthony.

I'm just merely stating that with the change of the tradition we had(A wrong tradition where only WHITE MALES were in office), sadly it would cause a divide for awhile.

I believe it would be the same divide had a woman became president. The issue wouldn't be racism, but gender bias. Or if a person of a non-christian faith became president, it would be an attack on faith. ~Candace

Agreed.  You're right about all that, Candace. 

And interestingly, Obama is a Christian while there's a whole bigoted movement insisting - "accusing" he's a Muslim as if that would be a 'bad' thing if it were true.

Some squirrely folks think he's a Muslim...not a big movement.

According to new research from the Pew Center for People and the Press, there are still people who think Barack Obama is a Muslim and not a Christian.

Most likely to believe the lie?

Evangelical Christians — nineteen percent of them think he’s a Muslim.

(That same percentage of people disapprove with the job he’s doing… coincidence?)

Not only that… only 38% of Evangelicals said he was a Christian! The only group scoring lower in that category? People of high school age or younger. Pathetic.

I wonder what it will take before these people give in to reality and accept that he’s a Christian.

What does Obama have to do? Draw a picture of Mohammad? Put more Christians in his Faith Council? Get re-baptized in front of a national TV audience?

(via Christianity Today)

Obama says he's a Christian so I assume he is. He's also an opportunist (saying what people want to hear) which is why he tends to confuse people by saying in Turkey: [Americans] “do not consider ourselves a Christian nation, or a Muslim nation, but rather, a nation of citizens who are, uh, bound by a set of values;” a fair statement in my opinion. But then he says in France: "if you actually took the number of Muslims Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world." This isn't a true statement.

At around 3:20 she states the Republican party has the part of ignorance, apathy, hate and fear.

So the agreement with her is that Republicans only have votes from ignorant, scared, apathetic people.

Abd that brilliant part about Stolkhom Syndrome, here's a medical definition:

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Stockholm+syndrome

Okay maybe not a christian nation as a whole, but if you live in the south Dan, this is Christian country. I am of another faith and I've seen what happens when people discover individuals of another faith. It's unfair and can be dangerous.

 He's also an opportunist (saying what people want to hear. . . Dan

President Obama is from my neighboring state of Il.  I happen to be good friends with an elder actvist from there.  She has followed Il and National politics for over seventy years.

President Obama is a politician, example, the Il. coal industry has backed him from the state legislature up.  He is a politician who listens and tries to accomplish compromises.  That is an achelles heel at the moment in my opinion.

Candance:

' believe it would be the same divide had a woman became president. The issue wouldn't be racism, but gender bias. Or if a person of a non-christian faith became president, it would be an attack on faith. ~Candace '

Taking into consider we were coming out of the Bush administration.  I would say this is amplified as well.  I agree however with this statement it is a societal oberservation.

Candance:

Your in Texas and not Christian, that is a scary prospect.  I am in Iowa an agnostic, trust me it is unsettling at times as well.

"President Obama is a politician, example, the Il. coal industry has backed him from the state legislature up.  He is a politician who listens and tries to accomplish compromises.  That is an achelles heel at the moment in my opinion."

Anthony,

I have no doubt he has goals that he considers noble and does what it takes to reach those goals. I also think he has "sold his soul" and caters to whatever group he thinks is helpful at the time. If it's not convenient, they get thrown under the bus.

That in itself doesn't mean he's a bad president, it just means he's a guy I probably wouldn't want to hang around with. It's mainly his policies that define him as a president and I don't give him high marks there. In fairness I think a lot of other politicians have failed us too; this is just more of the same.

So the agreement with her is that Republicans only have votes from ignorant, scared, apathetic people. ~Candace

Garofalo said,

"Here's what the right-wing has ... there's no shortage of the natural resources of ignorance, apathy, hate, fear ... as long as those things are in the collective conscious and unconscious Republicans will have some votes, Fox News will have some viewers but what else have they got? If they didn't do that who's gonna watch?"

Not to nitpick, Candace, but she didn't say Republicans 'only' have votes from ignorance, apathy, fear - but in context to the racism and bigotry that does exist - however large or small a dose as one sees - she's right.  That's not to say, however, that there isn't ignorance, apathy, and fear driving the left-wing vote.  There is enough ignorance, certianly, to go around the political playground as well as a good dose of apathy and fear.  I would just say the fear on the left is different from the fear on the right (in context), for example I don't hear from the left any fear of Obama being a "Muslim."

• Evangelical Protestant Tradition
  26%
• Mainline Protestant Tradition
  18%
• Historically Black Protestant Tradition
  7%
• Catholic Tradition
  24%
• Mormon Tradition
  2%
• Orthodox Tradition
  1 per cent
• Jehovah's Witness Tradition
  1 per cent
• Other Christian Traditions
  < 0.5%
• Jewish Tradition
  2 per cent
• Muslim Tradition
  1%
• Buddhist Tradition
  0.5 per cent
• Hindu Tradition
  < 0.5%
• Other World Religions
  less than 0.5 per cent
• Other Faiths
  1 per cent
• Unaffiliated
  16%

I see great attempts to make change.  I do believe because of my Presidents background, we have basically more of the same. 

I voted my President Obama, picked him early as my candidate.  In Iowa that means months before most people hear the names of the candidates.  I picked him because of desire to change Foreign Policy, in our current world, I think it is assinine to not have some form of diplomatic channel with all nations of the globe.  I am an environmentalist, so I also knew Senator Obama's coal backing.  "Sold His Soul"  well, he is a politician!

Lynn,

Nice break down there.

I love how I'm in the other catogory at a staggering 1% lmao!

July 20 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. will cease to be a majority Protestant country in years because of a steep drop in membership at many Protestant churches, the Associated Press reported, citing a new study.

The share of people in the U.S. who said they were Protestant fell from 63 percent in 1993 to 52 percent in 2002 after years of stability, according to a report by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago.

During the same period, people who said they had no religious ties rose to almost 14 percent from 9 percent. Roman Catholics have remained steady, making up about 25 percent of the U.S. population, as have the number of people who identify themselves as Jewish, at just under 2 percent, the AP reported.

The survey defined Protestants as people who said they are members of a Protestant denomination, such as the Episcopal or Southern Baptist churches. The category includes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and independent Protestant churches, the AP said.

The AP didn't disclose how many people were questioned in the survey.

No doubt about it, IMO.

We - as a nation and a society - are going through a rapid and major change when it comes to our religious affiliations and our religious concepts.

Major changes ahead in the very near future.

"Not to nitpick, Candace, but she didn't say Republicans 'only' have votes from ignorance, apathy, fear - but in context to the racism and bigotry that does exist - however large or small a dose as one sees - she's right.  That's not to say, however, that there isn't ignorance, apathy, and fear driving the left-wing vote. "

Kati,

Ingnorance and apathy aren't good. What's wrong with "fear" being a motivator. Fear of a terrorist attack for example is very logical and natural.

Dan, fear is a very negative and powerful emotion and I would never want anyone to make critical decisions born in that state of mind.

I do not fear another terror attack and I refuse to 'expect' one.  I expect there will not be another because I believe that what we mind is what we matter.  Mind is the builder.  I believe in collective consciousness and that the greater collection will overpower the lesser so my bet must be on the positive collection.

Be aware and work to circumvent dangers?  Certainly.  But who the hell wants to walk around in fear all the time? :::shudders::: Screw the fear thing.  Nothing good comes from fear.

"I do not fear another terror attack and I refuse to 'expect' one.  I expect there will not be another because I believe that what we mind is what we matter.  Mind is the builder.  I believe in collective consciousness and that the greater collection will overpower the lesser so my bet must be on the positive collection."

Katii,

That logic I can't understand. Fear is an effective motivator and if it's justified can be a good motivator. People in New Orleans and Galveston should be afraid of hurricanes and prepare accordingly.

Not to say we should do this or that, but few big countries have been immune from terrorist attacks; our country is no different.

People in New Orleans and Galveston should be afraid of hurricanes and prepare accordingly.

I would put it this way... People in N.O. and Galveston have suffered greatly from hurricanes and should prepare accordingly making experience and knowledge the motivator.

It is always good to be prepared against any threat whether it be natural or man-made. Just my opinion.

And a wise opinion that is, Suzanne

Fear is an effective motivator and if it's justified can be a good motivator. -Dan

Fear is never a good thing. I like common sense and Logic better. I'm not afraid for another terrorist attack on the US, but if an extremist of any sort made his hatred for the US very publicly known, common sense and logic would tell me this person might be motivated to try something. I would not live in fear that he would. I would just be prepared as best I could for the likelyhood of something coming to pass.

Same with the hurricane. I know there is hurricane season every year and if I lived close to the cost, common sense should kick in and say, "Hey, it's time to get prepared in case we need to make a sudden move. have an exit stradegy"

Thank you very much

"Kevvie has trouble with correct terms like "tea party" . We can just keep pointing out his silliness until he gets it right.

He probably thinks that they had a ''teabag'' on the Boston wharf in 1773, too."--Robert

People were calling them "Tea bag parties" at the rallies and people were carrying tea bags at the rallies.

And I'd suggest that you not imagine to get in a discussion over knowledge of history with anyone given your own history on care2.

"I do not fear another terror attack and I refuse to 'expect' one."--Katii

Agreed.  Unreasonable fear of terrorist attacks, such as the frenzy thaat proceeded the Iraq War, is a bigger threat to the country than actual terrorist attacks. 

It seems that they have recently stopped a few in the plans or close to be enacted.  For that I am thankful.  I do think there are those out there who would like to do us harm.  I also feel though that people are more aware.  Our government, a little more coordinated.  Hopefully they will continue to stop it before it ever happens again.

We all still agree not to call them flea snaggers anymore right   thank you.

Robert, disparaging comments such as your remark about Kevin isn't going to fly here.  Please do try not to be disrespectful.

Thank you, Katii.

That goes for everyone. Please give your uncensored opinions and counter other people's opinions.  But please refrain from doing so in a personally-demeaning way.

I will repeat: Start personal fights and that will be very unwelcome.  Respond to a personal slight or swipe with one back, that will be even more unwelcome. If people want to be respected, show respect for others.

Don't bring fights here that occur elsewhere - or continue fights from the past.

If people do not wish to be a member of a group - this group - where we are trying to keep our discussions and disagreements civil and mutually respectful for people, then maybe this isn't the proper group for some people. But I want everyone to be welcome.

Go along with that simple request to show others respect, even if you diss their opinions, then EVERYONE is welcome.  It's all about how we act here; now.  Not about the past.  Not about actions elsewhere at Care2 or anywhere else.

Everyone is welcome here - and every opinion is welcome here - but please act respectfully to others.

This country still has racism of course and it's logical that racists would join anti-Obama movements, but it's a mistake to focus on racism re the tea party movement.

I think it's more relevant that these people recycle the lies about health care reform, new taxes, losing liberties, silly accusations of communism, fascism, etc., czars, and other ideological driven beliefs.

But in fairness, many of these people are concerned and very rightfully so, they identify with being conservative and it's just unfortunate that this translates into morons like Glenn Beck and others being able to stir up their fears and spread misinformation.

I can't resist I am hereby an old bagger. I don't know why they even use

the term tea bag since there were none at the time of the revolution.

Does anyone else think that slinging invectives around is tiresome?

There will always be an elite class and I am glad because they build the

rockets, discover new medicines and write good music. So why do people

get upset with the concept. Beats me. Its the way it is and probably always

will be.Some of those elite blacks were Duke Ellington, Geo Washington Carver

and Ralph Ellison. Unfortunately, Obama really doesn't have the talent or intelligence to make the grade. He is failing and quickly. Am I racist for

pointing that out.

But, there were four deep southern states that did not vote for Obama. I have

to think some of those votes were based on his race and that is shameful and

sad. I also think some didn't think he had enough experience. Lets hope that

the experience factor outweighed the racist one.

would\

What are we arguing about? The tea parties are themselves not racist, but racists do infiltrate them. What's the problem with recognizing that?

Hey, wait a minute Stephanie. Since when have elites written the best music!? lol I think it's the moneyed elites as opposed to the talented elites that are the problem.

I think Obama has the intelligence to do some things. He just doesn't want to rock the boat, so he probably won't do much unless others in the party force the issues. Of course we probably have different ideas about what should get done, but then maybe not when you get past the policies.

Stephanie, you are right, much good comes from a class where there is money to support greater things or build upon the ideas less fortunate people could never afford to manifest themselves... it's always been that way, and like you say, probably always will be.  Maybe that is a part of the grand scheme of things in the circle of life.

Dear Dale,

You said:

"What are we arguing about? The tea parties are themselves not racist, but racists do infiltrate them. What's the problem with recognizing that?"

That is exactly the point that others here have made, too - and I totally agree with you, Dale, that there's no reason it need be a problem. That doesn't mean everyone at Tea Parties are racists.

Racists show up everywhere.  It's an unfortunate disease in our society - but not everyone is infected by it.

Dear Stephanie,

I consider it, like you stated, shameful for anyone to vote against a candidate just because of the candidate's race.  I also consider it shameful to vote for a candidate based solely on their race.

Maybe some day we'll just look at our politicians, our representatives and our leaders and only see whether they perform their job well or not - not what their skin color is, or their gender, or their ancestry or religion, or their height or weight.

I hope that day comes soon.

"others being able to stir up their fears and spread misinformation."  Bryan

Sorry I didn't copy your whole statement, this part caught my attention.  I would have to say it is not fears being stirred up but the reality of daily existance for some.  You have to live it to believe it.

But in fairness, many of these people are concerned and very rightfully so, they identify with being conservative and it's just unfortunate that this translates into morons like Glenn Beck and others being able to stir up their fears and spread misinformation.

In simplier terms even, there are a lot of simply folks.  In a single word, if you will, sheep.

Eliteism is a dangerous word, to many abstract concepts of the elite class, from Plato's philosopher king forward.  I mean fiscal elite when I use the term.  Many a decade older than I remember when it meant educational elite, academic elite.  In many societies it was and is the mitlitary elite. 

To me the concept of enlightenment however, means a person would move beyond this base concept of greed.   

Dear Anthony,

I this you make an important point - and this goes, again, to definitions and how we define ourselves.

Dale brings up, too, some excellent disticntions between what he says are Neo-Conservatives and more-traditional Conservatives, such as William Buckley.

I am in agreement.  I do not consider many of those - pundits and legislators - who define themselves as being Conservatives as representing either traditional philosophical Conservatism - or all people who consider themselves Conservatives. 

When it comes to many issues and ideas, I consider myself Conservative - in a traditional sense, perhaps - but that doesn't in any way place me in the same UNiverse as some, today, who call themselves Conservatives; like Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and many others.

But that's a long and involved issue - this issue of definitions (as we know) - so maybe I shouldn't pursue that here.

Dale very valid point, many in the tea parties were social conservatives.  However, how that statement was concieved a generation ago.  The simple people I refer too, to generalize.  That concept was one of acting upon The Sermon on the Mount, not ignoring it as I believe some today would do.  From The Family to neo-cons the Republican party is multifaceted.   

"I would have to say it is not fears being stirred up but the reality of daily existance for some.  You have to live it to believe it."   Suzanne

You're right Suzanne, there are of course real fears that people live each day. Such as, will they keep their job (or find one), or what will massive debt do to this country.

But this simply is not the same as fearing that the next Chairman Mao Zedong is about to take over the country because of letting Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire or whatever irrational reason, or fearing that gov panels will ration health care, or that our freedoms are being taken by a dictator.

You can't say becuase real fears exist that there isn't fearmongering taking place and people aren't being stirred up by misinformation.

"We all still agree not to call them flea snaggers anymore right   thank you."--Suzanne

At least not when you are around

Everyone, no flea snaggers or flea snag farties when Suzanne is around, OK?

Bryan, I never said anything to indicate there wasn't some of what you stated taking place.  I think reality for many people are they are in pretty bad shape personally and many who attend these tea parties have found a voice in that movement.  
 
There are recent events going on that don't sit well with me personally at all, such as dictating salaries to privately owned companies (who I guess are not privately owned any more).  I absolutely hated the bail out, and I guess they deserve what they get.  Although these execs. make massive amounts of money, I don't like the government telling them they can't.  Who's next and what's next?
 
Health care...the government can't even get enough flu shots together when they knew this H1N1 was going to hit in the Fall.  How well will they put our health care together?   How much will it cost me to still have no healthcare and be penalized for it? 
 
So many things concern me at this point.  It is still mostly State related for me, but on a bigger scale yes I am concerned.

This post was modified from its original form on 24 Oct, 10:03

  Kevin your the best.  Much appreciated.

I find it very hard not to think of the tea baggers as racist I have been to rallies here in Arizona & the majority of people at the rally were racist & homophobic judging by the signs they were carrying complaining about gay marriages illegal immigrants and our president being on the end of a rope does not come across to me as a tax protest, and the excuse everybody wants to use that they are just a minority faction in the movement I don't buy.

     The reason I don't buy the minority faction excuse is I belong to several 911 truth orginizations here in Az when we have people show up at our rallies with messages that support hate and violence they are asked to leave even though that makes the rallies smaller we just don't want to be associated with that type of message

Rondal, I guess everyone has their own experience. I certainly am not where you are from and can't speak for the people that live there. I feel bad for your State if that's how it is.

Suzanne I do not feel sorry for my state I feel sorry for the ignorant conservatives that make up the voting majority in my state,being born and raised here I have realized for most of my life conservative is just a polilically correct way of saying you are a racist,anyway that is the way it seems to work in Az

I try to keep an open mind about people. I find if I paint one group in one light I am often wrong.  To each his own I suppose.

It seems like people's experiences at these rallies differ.  It sounds like some of that might be different impressions depending upon the person but also differen types of people who attend different rallies at different places and times.

Sorry, whenever I hear "tea party" I just can't help thinking about the Women's Institute!!! Would look a bit like this.

Dear Kevin,

You said:

It seems like people's experiences at these rallies differ.  It sounds like some of that might be different impressions depending upon the person but also differen types of people who attend different rallies at different places and times.

Well-said, Kevin.  And to repeat, I go with the quote from Dale, too, above.

We all have different experiences.

I also agree with Suzanne that I try - well, I try to not classify or stereotype people.  (I try).

Suzanne, I think your point about government agencies not getting flu shots together is related to a misperception that keeps getting repeated. And i don't say this to comment on how much you personally may or may not know about the health issue. But there is this idea (scare tactic i'd say) that any kind of government involvement in the payment of health care somehow means that the government would literally be providing or coordinating the care. That would be like someone implying that insurance companies actually provide care under our current system.

How well government agencies protect against a pandemic, or for example ensure the safety of food or the water supply is a different issue than what will happen if payment for care is administered by the government instead of private insurance. Also to remember, the fact that a few dozen people died and 100s had neuro-muscular problems becuase of the the 1976 swine flu vaccine was due in part becuase of rushing the manufacture of the vaccine (but i know the vaccine issue isn't really what your point is).

I think more telling than possible salary caps is the fact that these failed banks got 100s of billions of our tax dollars and a year later there still isn't any regulation to keep the same kind of problems from happening again. As far as our economic well being goes, i think there's much more to fear from the power of Wall St. than any current government policy. And that's probably what i think is the biggest problem with the conservative tea party mentality. I do know there's a lot of diversity among the thoughts of those who identify with this movement, but overall there's way too much nonsense about "socialism" while we're being set up to be screwed by Wall St. financial elites again.

And i agree that any penalties for not having insurance (as i don't) would be a terrible policy. And of course that has to do with the insurance company agenda as much as with government corrution. I don't know, i guess it's like being able to fight against corruption in a police force and still want the police to have power to enforce necessary laws.

Bryan, I absolutely agree with you about the corporations in that we should not have bailed their asses out only to have more of the same.   Especially with our tax dollars.  

I have heard various degrees of how the government will and will not be involved with the healthcare.  Unfortunately since there is no set policy as of yet, I can't really say what will or will not happen.  I can only assume.  I doubt I would be able to read the amount of pages before they actually do vote on whatever comes to pass.   My point was, the government knew H1N1 was coming back, promised vaccines and failed and now President Obama has declared an emergency situation related to this flue strain.  Not very prepared are we?

I hope you get insurance, I hope I get insurance, but mostly I'd like to have insurance for my daughter.

This is not directed at you Bryan, just need to blow some steam....Just saw on the news  and it really floored my ass....President Obama is now coming back to New Jersey on November 1st to campaign again for Corzine (3rd time, he was just here this past Thursday).  This is beyond a waste of my tax dollars, which thanks to Corzine taxes and fees and tolls are pretty much bankrupting every small business and household in this State.  There comes a point where a politician can not be forgiven an act.  President Obama has reached that point today with me, in that, I can not forgive his interference in New Jersey.  Not when we have been suffering for so long, long before this economic crisis.  OK...I'm done.

Just an FYI - The October Tea Parties are starting up.  I will be attending one this Saturday, which really is going to be a huge anti-Corzine rally.  My daughter came up with the idea for a sign of Only you....(picture of smokey the bear) can prevent 4 more years of Corzine.  I love it!  She will be attending with me.

Bill Clinton will be back in our state today or tomorrow and President Obama will be here Saturday. 

I can't wait for the election to be over and may be out more than in on the posts till it is done.  I will be doing my part in the next few days to make sure Corzine is not re-elected.  If you don't hear from me that is why.  Wish my State well no matter what side of the fence you sit on.  Our State can not afford any more time with Corzine.  Trust me.....

I saw Christie last night being interviewed and he seems like an honest fellow Suzanne. Again he is being overpowered by lack of money but the polls are favorable and I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

Very interesting to hear that Charlie Rangel is having a huge problem raising money ..... Americans are finally starting to wake up and kick them out I hope!

San Diego had a HUGE turnout as the Tea Party Express makes it way across America again .... HUGE!

You will never regret the fact that you stook up Suzanne .... never - I have spent all these years of my life wishing I had done so all those years ago - but I am now! Old bones and all!

LOVE THE POSTER IDEA!!!!

Be sure to report back to us on how it went. And make sure your signs are spelled right!

Northern - He may be the better devil.  No politician in New Jersey is a completely honest guy.  I wish, but I am not blind to the politics as usual, no matter what side of the fence it is around here.  I just think the grass is certainly greener on any side other than Corzine's.

Dale, I will be sure to report back and check my spelling.  I don't want my signs being aired with ridicule.  I will tell you if I see something offensive I will speak up to those people, promise.

Northern - I have no good thoughts for Charlie Rangel.  None!

Suzanne, love the poster idea too   Have a good time at the tea party rally, and I'll be sending all my energy to a win over Corzine

I will tell you if I see something offensive I will speak up to those people, promise.

You go, girl

Tea Parties...are they racist? No.

People were calling them "Tea bag parties" at the rallies and people were carrying tea bags at the rallies.



And I'd suggest that you not imagine to get in a discussion over knowledge of history with anyone given your own history on care2.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seems like you have some trouble differentiating between people who carried tea bags in mockery and phose who didn't carry them at all. You still think they were teabaggers back in 1773.

My history is much better than yours on care 2. As is my knowledge of history. Get over it.

My history is much better than yours on care 2. As is my knowledge of history. Get over it.

Such idle boasting is pointless unless you can back it up with detailed writings of historical topics. Got some blog entries to show us? Have you written one or more books on history that have been published? Do you teach history courses in schools?

I guess I missed something so be it.  I am probably better off.  

I appreciate those who have honored my request to not refer to the tea party protests as tea bag anything.  Thank you for those who have enough respect for me to do it at least in this forum.  The rest you are free to your speech even if offensive.

The topic of this thread is the Tea Party protests.

The topic is not anyone's personalities or anyone's history at Care2.  The topic is not whether anyone here likes each other.  The topic is not what interactions any of us have had in the past or have had elsewhere at Care2.

Let's please stick to opinions about the topic or issues here and please avoid personal remarks that have nothing to do with it.

Thank you.

I know you just got caught up in whatever transpired. 

Finally - real news being reported honestly! Yep, they are all racists all right! Cept' this fellow is an African American Tea Party Supporter (just for you Suzanne!) You go girl!

I think that is a good point. We shouldn't just think all the folks at Tea Parties are white racists, there to spread racism and hatred.

There are all kinds of people who attend the Tea Parties; of all genders, colors, backgrounds, economic situations.  They are a cross-section of many Americans who are upset - right or wrong - with what is going on in this country.

Their concerns are real, their fears are real, their anger is real.  Somehow we need to deal with that, deal with their issues and listen to their concerns.  Just as they, too, IMO, need to not only feel anger but find solutions to our problems and listen to the rest of us.  We're all living under difficult circumstances and we need to find ways together to improve our problems.

Those of us who attend Tea parties and those who don't, need to listen to each other and reach out to each other.  Remaining divided and frustrated and angry is not the solution we need.

OK, just got back from the Tea Party, and am running out. I am happy to report with all honestly, not one racial sign at all. Nor racial speeches.  There was some socialist signs and discussions, but in a greater part the speakers were motivating people to get involved.  The conservatives were chastised for the choices we have in those running in races and the complacency that has allowed many things to happen.  There was much talk of the governor's race and how important it is to vote.  They didn't stress who to vote for with regard to Daggett or Chrisite.  They more stressed the point that Corzine must go. 

There were probably 250 people (maybe).  It's a rainy day and Halloween, so don't know how that played on the crowd.  There were counter protestors who cirlced where we all were, and they were chanting whatever it is they were chanting.  The police stood near wherever they were.  There was no interaction between the two groups.  There was no media coverage whatsoever.

I am very happy to report I got to yell out DUMP CORZINE at least 4x.  Made me feel pretty good....my daughter just said Oh, Mom!  Anyway it was a blast and peaceful and not derrogatory to anyone at all.  I guess we behave better in New Jersey than in other areas.  I picked up a bumber sticker for "Betsy" that reads HEY CONGRESS....YOU'RE FIRED?  CAN YOU HEAR US NOW?!?!?!

I am heading out to do a little push for local town politicians.  Tomorrow there is a rally for Chris Christie, that I believe I will also attend.  President Obama will be here tomorrow as well.   Just figured I'd give you the run down.

Oh yeah, my sign and my daughter's sign were a huge success.  People loved them and were photographing them.  Maybe I'll be on the web.   Catch you all later.

Knate - You can delete the above post. I got interrupted while posting and came back to late to edit. I apologize so just get rid of it. Thanks Sue

This post was modified from its original form on 31 Oct, 13:40

Knate disregard please the post I wanted you to delete is gone. Weird.

Dear Suzanne,

Now I'm curious. 

My main problem with the tea parties is the fact that non of these protests occurred when that famous Evangelical Christian, George W. Bush was president. After all, he was the one who got us into two wars simultaneously, one of which was based on a lie. No one came forth to complain when we wasted millions of dollars and accomplished nothing. No one complained about the fact that the wealthy were raising their own wages when the rest of us remained mired in low paying jobs. No one said anything when we lost personal liberties and were spied upon by our own government. When the rich had their taxes lowered, there were no tea parties. It was under the Bush presidency that the world economy almost collapsed, yet there were no tea parties.

Now when we have a President who wants to provide health insurance for all of us...we have tea parties. No one has even had their taxes raised. If you are all against health reform, what do you propose we will do to stop the rising costs. This is known as one of the most unequal economies in the industrialized world. All other modern countries are able to afford to provide their citizens with the ability to go to a doctor when they are sick. If we do not rein in the for profit insurance corporations, they will eat up most of the money in the budget within a short time. What is your solution? Have you discussed solutions at your tea parties or have you been too occupied trying to decide if Barack Obama is a true Christian or not? Is this all some kind of joke? Maybe all of the people who attend these tea parties are not racists, but I quite frankly feel that the motivation behind the parties themselves is racism.

Beverly, Quite honestly I have answered just about all your questions a gazillion times on these posts and in fairness to you I know you were not participating in the group at that time. By the way, WELCOME!

The people in this group knows my motivation and my reasoning. Most of what you have written above does not apply to me. I think your mind is set and that is perfectly acceptable to me. The people I have attended these parties with are on the verge now or have already lost just about everything they have worked their lives for. They weren't in this position 2 years ago. They lived their lives, worked and didn't get involved.

As far as taxes, live in New Jersey and then we can discuss taxes. Nothing personal against you and I don't mean to be unresponsive, just can't keep covering the same ground when it seems minds are set on what they believe.

Knate it really wasn't anything to exciting. It was an Email I just received today from the DCCC talking about the right wing nut tea partiers etc. and how we must fight them , please donate...blah...blah...blah. The wording was pretty insulting was why I was bringing it to the groups attention.

I pretty much felt with thoughts like these, the insult trading back and forth that we will never be able to even try to understand each other when it comes from the top on down. That's all.

Nothing juicy.......................

Dear Suzanne,

Let me speak philosophically.

I happen to believe that is the essense of what keeps us - us, here - and the entire country - from dealing effectively withy our problems.  Too easily, IMO, we fall into blaming others, name-calling, accusations and insulting others.  The Left insulting the Right; the Right insulting the Left.  Attributing the worst possible motives to those "on the other side."

Look how much of it happens in this tiny discussion forum.  We get manipulated, IMO, by our own rhetoric and once we attach ourselves to that rhetoric, there is no place to go but further away from each other - and further away from understanding and mutual solutions.  Is anyone listening to each other?  Or are we shouting at each other?

People on the Right call Obama a Socialist, an anti-American, and all who support him are idiots and anti-Americans.  People on the Left call those who question or oppose Obama racists, haters and idiots.  Socialists!  Fascists!  War-mongers!  Terrorist sympathizers!  And this is what we've come to expect as dialogue - Shouting matches, with each side demonizing the other side.  And we wonder why we're in such a &%$#ing mess?

You and I, Suzanne, have talked frequently about having threads where we "attack" problems with mutual respect, by working together to try to achieve understanding and consensus.  And, Suzanne, how many people responded to our attempts?  None.

But everyone seems to respond and have something to say when we can blame someone else - blame Bush, blame Obama, blame Palin, blame Pelosi, blame Loony Liberals, blame Fascist Conservatives, blame, blame, blame.  Endless rhetoric "proving" it's always someone else's fault and little or no listening to why we all are upset, angry, frustrated and feeling victims to systems controlling our lives and sapping our souls.

It should be easy.  If one starts a conversation with someone by calling the other person a selfish fascist, how much respect should one expect in return?  If one starts a conversation by calling the other person a racist and a bigot, how much respect should one expect in return?  By phrasing our conversations that way we guarantee that no conversation will ever occur. We guarantee shouting matches and name-calling and accusations, back and forth.

In essense, we are all trying to build a bridge to tomorrow.  We have the tools and the materials to get there - but one side holds one-half the tools and laborers and the other side, the other half.  Yet a bridge can't be built without all the tools and all the workers working together to build that bridge.

"You're fault!" doesn't build a bridge.  "Let's work together," does.

IMO, it's that simple.

If we drop the accusatory rhetoric, if we begin listening to each other, if we begin understanding each other, then we can build a bridge, together, that we can all cross, together, and get to a better future, together.

You understand that, Suzanne.  IMO, it's that simple.

Knate, I do understand what you are saying and I am glad for another to feel it that way. I love the statement sapping our souls because it does. Blaming or defending gets so very tiresome. I really don't have much to add, you covered it oh so well.



Katii, I forgot to mention there was a very vocal group for Ron Paul there. I was thinking about you.

Beverly, why do you think tea parties came into existence? Why do you think that there should have been tea parties during GWBush's terms? Why do you think that there were no tea parties during GWBush's terms?


There were protests by the left of GWBush's policies....don't they count?

Meant to say Ron Paul supporters. It's been a loooong day!

Dear Suzanne,

I think of it visually.

Right now we are drawing a straight line in the sand; a line that divides us.  We could however, draw a circle around ourselves; a circle that includes us all.

Yes, I say it is that simple.

Nice idea....I suppose it is good to remain hopeful.  Divided we fall.

Knate...keep talking like that and Rohm Immanuel will have you on the White House enemies list.

Robert,

I have proudly served my country on every enemies list since Richard Nixon's.  I'd be insulted to not be included on Rahm Immanuel's.

ya gotta hand it to Garofalo...she really knows how to insult people into despising her view.  Call them pathologically led, demented, 'limbic brain' violence, immigrant bashers,  stupid, racist, ignorant of American history, all white (except for the token blacks with Stockholm syndrome), noncerebral yokels, aanti-intellectual, dumbed down electorate ---and White Power KKK members--- all phrases carefully chosen to draw people to the Democrat party in droves.

I'd recommend that we all listen to her at least 3 times.

Knate     

Robert - I hear you, it is beyond ridiculous and there is no excuse for such outright hatred and labelling of any group.

This post was modified from its original form on 31 Oct, 19:36

Dear Suzanne and Robert,

When I was younger I had paid-in-full scholarships to study history and political science at the most prestigious US and European Universities but I did myself much better by attending the "Let's Light Incense, Smoke A Joint And Eat Pizza" University so I could study under the tutelage of Professor Janeane Garofalo.

I hope young people today have the same wonderful opportunity I had.

Janeane is the best recruiting tool that the right has....I hope she keeps on even more stridently in the same vein.

You'll have to show us your diploma some time .

I prepare for rain, but do not fear rain...

I love a rainy day!!!!!!

It was actually due to private companies that the vaccine had been delayed.

The government gave out the information given by the companies.

That there were problems with the manufacturing is not the government's fault.

What she says is rather absurd.

The limbic brain?!

Even there is a kernel of truth there, she does no one a favor.

I'm confused and it's late...going to bed.  Night all.

Tea Baggers are absolutely racist. I can't even believe this is in question.

They are a pathetic, disgraceful collection of disgruntled bigots, intent on turning back the clock of progress in America, and all under the guise of "patriotism."

Throw them in Gitmo.

To each his own.

"Tea Baggers are absolutely racist. I can't even believe this is in question."--X B

Don't use the 'B' word.

You know what Kevin, it just doesn't matter really. I'm done with the whole friggen topic. I will avoid all and any of these conversations in the future because it is just to frustrating.  I'm done with trying to explain anything, let people do/think/say whatever they want to.  I'm just so sick of it all, it doesn't matter.

I understand your frustration.  You should at least know that I did not have an opinion about these rallies but I had heard people say they were racists while others said they weren't.  Your posts (as well as some others on Care2) convinced me that these rallies differ from place to place depending upon who is there and there are rallies that are not racist, and certainly there are people there who are not racists (e.g. yourself).

And yet right there, in Katii's video near the top of the thread, at the 30 second mark, we have some guy yelling, "35% of the abortions are had by black American women! They only make up 12% of the population!"

If he's so against abortion in general, why is he focusing on race? How or why would race come into the abortion argument?

Maybe because he's a racist Tea Bagger?

Here it is again, in case you missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

If that comparison of numbers is correct - and i have no reason to doubt it - then it is a indictment of the Black Holocaust here . 

Kevin....thanks

Christian and I should be associated with this person............why?    Never mind, don't need to know.

Out for the day, catch up later with you all.

Suzanne and Robert,

I never meant to disrespect your opinion, only to express mine. I would like to understand the point of these teabaggers. IMO, the Republican party is the party of the wealthy corporations. The inequality between workers and management began under the "great orator" Ronald Reagan. Bush one continued in the same tradition...only after he was finished, suddenly we had the failure of the Savings and Loan Banks. When Clinton was President, if you can remember, we had special prosecuters throughout his years in office. Excuse me for being so blunt, but we had more interest and anger over the fact that he had a blow job while in office than has been shown by Congress over GWBush's administration outing a covert CIA agent. Bush2 did more to subvert Democracy than any president in modern history. Where were the tea parties then? Under GW we had true taxation without representation...unless you were in the top five per cent of income, then you had less taxation with more representation. Why is there so little interest in the wrongs that were committed by Bush and his cronies? It was also under Bush that the stock market tanked...no one has received punishment for that either.

I guess my real question that I have been trying to understand concerns the middle and lower income earners that support the Republican party. Do you all have access to affordable health care now? Do you understand that unless we can gain some control over these costs that they will destroy our economy within a short period of time? Lastly, since you are all against a public option to provide affordable care and to bring down the costs of private insurance, what would your party do to end the immorality of people dying because they cannot afford to go to the doctor? Are you okay with letting them die as long as you do not have to contribute to their care? What exactly is your position?

Dear Beverly,

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am sure they found no disrespect in any of your posts.  Nor did I.

You express yourself extremely well - and I think your express yourself fairly, with total respect for other people posting their opinions.

I encourage you to continue to post exactly the way you do and covering exactly the opinions and issues you wish to talk about.  Thanks!

Knate - Check your Email.

Katii, I forgot to mention there was a very vocal group for Ron Paul there. I was thinking about you.

Thanks for thinking of me, Suzanne - I hope they were nice thoughts

Suzanne, I'm sorry there wasn't any media coverage at your rally.  I think I'd have to complain to my local news outlets, call the producers of the news shows and ask them 'where the hell were you? what's your job if not to report the news?'  Perhaps next time before a rally you and all your fellow supporters plan and stage a pre-rally call-all-the-TV stations and MSM news outlets campaign and tell them they BETTER be there, or else *_______*  Or else what I'm not sure, but I'd think of something say it

Race-specific and ethnicity-specific differences in legal induced abortion ratios and rates might reflect differences among groups in factors such as socioeconomic status, access to family planning and contraceptive services, contraceptive use, and incidence of unintended pregnancies.

The highest percentages of reported abortions were for... unmarried women (81%).

Being able to provide for a family, by black men, & thus, getting married, would surely cut the rates down among black women.

Tea Baggers are absolutely racist. I can't even believe this is in question.

They are a pathetic, disgraceful collection of disgruntled bigots, intent on turning back the clock of progress in America, and all under the guise of "patriotism."

Throw them in Gitmo.

And this "person" is not being kicked out of this group because??????

You think this is constructive freedom of speech and not an attack against very person who is standing up for your country? WTF! KNATE - KEVIN - HOSTS OF THIS SITE ...... Are u even paying attention to this kind of crap? Want to see racism at its best? This is what is taking place in england so enjoy what u see ...

Northern, all I see is rectangles with little red Xs.

This is taking place in London and these people don't even have the guts to show their faces .... This is what your President Bush was fighting whether you want to admit it or not .... DOES THIS happen in America? Not right now it doesn't because it does not matter to the vast majority of Americans WHO U ARE - WHAT COLOUR YOUR SKIN IS - WHAT YOUR RELIGIONS IS and note I said vast majority and at least those racist idiots don't cover their faces up when they carry the signs as a lot those assholes above did ....

Where were they during the Bush era - "the protesters" ARE U KIDDING ME? DO U LIVE IN THE SAME HEMISPHERE I DO???

Protesters were all over the news here in Canada but they were actually attacking speakers on the stage etc. etc. .... What you just saw above is what Bush was protecting America from ...

The tea party protestors are trying to protect America from itself .... The 'sleeping giant' that was awakened when the debt and spending rose out of control during the last year was the American people who will not allow your country to be brought to its knees because of a debt it cannot pay to OTHER countries .... who via your federal reserve are working hard to bankrupt you ....

But continue to use 'philosphy' and 'alinksy rules' and denial - oh and lets not forget to continue to blame it solely on 'George Bush' or 'racist Americans' -

twist history any way you want and make all of the excuses you want .... but I for one will stand with America and I am Canadian!

I will stand with Suzanne and all the tea party protestors who are trying to save your country from itself. Obama is weak, he is inexperienced and he is not 'in charge' of your country. If true patriotic Americans have their way he will not continue on this road to destroy your country and I beleive they will win so don't celebrate if the health care bill gets passed - it will be repealled and honest people will QUIT THE BLAME GAME - start running for your Senate and Congress and take your country back from the foreign nationals that are trying to destroy it.

When u toleralte this:

Tea Baggers are absolutely racist. I can't even believe this is in question.

They are a pathetic, disgraceful collection of disgruntled bigots, intent on turning back the clock of progress in America, and all under the guise of "patriotism."

Throw them in Gitmo.

I can no longer tolerate the stupidity ....

Dale, I can send the photos I have to someone here who can post them so everyone can see them .... I can see them on my computer so if someone will let me know via private messaging who to send them to I will be happy to let you see what is going on outside of America IF YOU ARE REALLY INTERSTED IN THE DAMN TRUTH .... Kattii ... I would prefer sending them to you if you could please contact me as I know Charlene is away ....

... and one more time - You do not even own the federal reserve where almost all of your tax payer money goes to - foreign nationals do - It has never been auditied - there is a fellow by the name of George Soros behind all that is going on in America right now (and he HUGELY supported your puppet President) ...

If America falls - all free countries in the world are going down the toilet with it .... Thank God for all Americans who are not going to allow this to happen ....

I wish every single day that Hillary Clinton was where Obama is right now because Soros could not control them ..... Not at all ...

There is information being fed into Canada AS WE SPEAK trying to get the truth out before your damn government washes it from the internet .... so we are trying to keep ahead of them .... and we will ....

For God's sakes WAKE UP WILL YOU!!!!

Northern, I got your message, check your email.

This thread has gotten too long. 

Please continue discussion at Tea Parties Part II HERE