I saw this headline today and I imagined President Obama calling a News Conference to say:

"This is a national Emergency!  Do not tune into or believe anything you hear on FOX News!"

But, no, the President has actually declared a national emergency that DOES NOT have to do with FOX News.

Please read the story below....

Obama declares swine flu a national emergency


By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama declared the swine flu outbreak a national emergency, giving his health chief the power to let hospitals move emergency rooms offsite to speed treatment and protect noninfected patients.

The declaration, signed Friday night and announced Saturday, comes with the disease more prevalent than ever in the country and production delays undercutting the government's initial, optimistic estimates that as many as 120 million doses of the vaccine could be available by mid-October.

Health authorities say more than 1,000 people in the United States, including almost 100 children, have died from the strain of flu known as H1N1, and 46 states have widespread flu activity. So far only 11 million doses have gone out to health departments, doctor's offices and other providers, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials.

Administration officials said the declaration was a pre-emptive move designed to make decisions easier when they need to be made. Officials said the move was not in response to any single development.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius now has authority to bypass federal rules when opening alternative care sites, such as offsite hospital centers at schools or community centers if hospitals seek permission.

Some hospitals have opened drive-thrus and drive-up tent clinics to screen and treat swine flu patients. The idea is to keep infectious people out of regular emergency rooms and away from other sick patients.

Hospitals could modify patient rules — for example, requiring them to give less information during a hectic time — to quicken access to treatment, with government approval, under the declaration.

It also addresses a financial question for hospitals — reimbursement for treating people at sites not typically approved. For instance, federal rules do not allow hospitals to put up treatment tents more than 250 yards away from the doors; if the tents are 300 yards or more away, typically federal dollars won't go to pay for treatment.

(cont.)

Administration officials said those rules might not make sense while fighting the swine flu, especially if the best piece of pavement is in the middle of a parking lot and some medical centers already are putting in place parts of their emergency plans.

"I think the term emergency declaration sounds more dramatic than it really is," said Dr. Peter Hotez, a research professor and chairman of the Department of Microbiology, Immunology and Tropical Medicine at George Washington University. "It's largely an administrative move that's more preemptive ..." He said such a step would give emergency rooms and hospitals the flexibility they need.

The national emergency declaration was the second of two steps needed to give Sebelius extraordinary powers during a crisis.

On April 26, the administration declared swine flu a public health emergency, allowing the shipment of roughly 12 million doses of flu-fighting medications from a federal stockpile to states in case they eventually needed them. At the time, there were 20 confirmed cases in the U.S. of people recovering easily. There was no vaccine against swine flu, but the CDC had taken the initial step necessary for producing one.

"As a nation, we have prepared at all levels of government, and as individuals and communities, taking unprecedented steps to counter the emerging pandemic," Obama wrote in Saturday's declaration.

He said the pandemic keeps evolving, the rates of illness are rising rapidly in many areas and there's a potential "to overburden health care resources."

The government now hopes to have about 50 million doses of swine flu vaccine out by mid-November and 150 million in December. The flu virus has to be grown in chicken eggs, and the yield hasn't been as high as was initially hoped, officials have said.

"Many millions" of Americans have had swine flu so far, according to an estimate that CDC Director Dr. Thomas Frieden gave Friday. The government doesn't test everyone to confirm swine flu so it doesn't have an exact count. He also said there have been more than 20,000 hospitalizations.

___

On the Net:

CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm

Government's flu site: http://www.flu.gov/

It is a flu epidemic, not an invasion by extra terrestrials. Get a grip Mr Obama.

However, Lynn, to be fair to President Obama and to the medical authorities involved....

There have been no deaths attributable to the invasion of spaceships filled with sentient extra-terrestrial warriors this year.  But millions throughout the world will be hospitalized and will possibly die from this current flu outbreak.  This H1N1 flu is not a simple cold with a few sniffles and minor aches.  It is a killer.  A potential mass murderer.

I think it's prudent and reasonable to treat this flu outbreak seriously.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

It is the flu for goodness sake. Wash your hands, try to not be in lot's of enclosed public areas, take your vitimins and supplements, drink your juice and water and continue the pursuit of happiness. Is it any worse then any other active flu season? Doesn't seem so ... not yet anyway.

Dear Laura,

Even a mild flu season can kill a million people or more. 

I know people have different opinions about it, but it is not that simple.  There are millions in this country who have suppressed and/or damaged immune systems who are at great risk.  Even the young and healthy can be at risk. 

We treat gun violence seriously, but guns kill way less people than the flu.  The flu may be the stock joke of comedians but it is no joke.  Influenza is a major killer of people throughout the world.

That doesn't mean people need to panic.  No one should panic.  But it does mean, IMO, we should stop acting like the H1N1 influenza is nothing but a case of a sneeze and a sniffle.

About 36000 people die annually in the USA from seasonal influenza. Puts this in perspective a bit. I now know quite a number of people i the UK who have had swine flu, including my daughter. It is no different to any other flu in fact, Kneight, it IS a few sniffles and minor aches.

Not one usually given to "conspiracy theories" and other such nonsense, but all this mad rush to vaccinated makes you wonder in whose interest this is.

You cannot currently send a star to Seanmhair because you have done so within the last week.

Will these flu shots be free? If not, then they're not going to really prevent an outbreak as much as they want to. Most poor people won't be able to afford it (as usual).

Since when did the US treat gun violence seriously?

To be fair, the last mass vaccination program for swine flu in 1976 was fraught with controversy:

<<The 1976 swine flu outbreak, also known as the swine flu fiasco, or the swine flu debacle, was a strain of H1N1 influenza virus that appeared in 1976. Infections were only detected from January 19 to February 9, and were not found outside Fort Dix. The outbreak is most remembered for the mass immunization that it prompted in the United States. The strain itself killed one person and hospitalized. However, side-effects from the vaccine caused 25 deaths.

On February 5, 1976, an army recruit at Fort Dix said he felt tired and weak. He died the next day and four of his fellow soldiers were later hospitalized. Two weeks after his death, health officials announced that swine flu was the cause of death and that this strain of flu appeared to be closely related to the strain involved in the 1918 flu pandemic. Alarmed public-health officials decided that action must be taken to head off another major pandemic, and they urged President Gerald Ford that every person in the U.S. be vaccinated for the disease. The vaccination program was plagued by delays and public relations problems, but about 24% of the population had been vaccinated by the time the program was canceled. Only one person, the Fort Dix army recruit, died from the flu.

There were reports of Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralyzing neuromuscular disorder, affecting some people who had received swine flu immunizations. One of the causes of this syndrome could be a rare side-effect of modern influenza vaccines, with an incidence of about one case per million vaccinations. As a result, Di Justo writes that "the public refused to trust a government-operated health program that killed old people and crippled young people." In total, less than 33 percent of the population had been immunized by the end of 1976. The National Influenza Immunization Program was effectively halted on December 16.

Overall, about 500 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome ( G B S ), resulting in death from severe pulmonary complications for 25 people, were probably caused by an immunopathological reaction to the 1976 vaccine. Other influenza vaccines have not been linked to Guillain-Barré syndrome, though caution is advised for certain individuals, particularly those with a history of GBS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak>>

Dear Christian,

The H1N1 flu has appeared here already.  Where I live there are already a couple of people hospitalized in serious condition. A vaccination, at best, can only protect - if anyone - people before the flu appears.  In any case, a vaccine's effect is debatable.

In the States, many people who wish to be vaccinated can recive a free flu shot.  Most have to pay for it.  I think it's too little, too late. 

At this stage, where I live, we have to be concerned with not having it spread.  It is alive and spreading in the building where I live.  It can be on surfaces everyone touches, like door handles and elevator buttons.  Washing one's hands is always a good measure.  But it is also in the air when someone sneezes next to you.

Everyone where I live is elderly; many have serious health conditions like cancer and emphysema and are very susceptible to the flu.  We treat it seriously.  Without panicking and without attributing anything to "Conspiracy theories."  But we damn well treat it seriously because someone here where I live, very likely, may die from this flu outbreak this season.  Maybe one of my friends.

I think I'm still going to get the vaccine, though. I've been struggling with this decision for ages now, but have decided to go ahead with it.

Dear Christian,

You may be right to ask whether we, in the US, treat gun violence seriously.

I also have the same questions you and others have after vaccines and vaccinations.  Thanks for posting that.  I don't think anyone should just go get a vaccine without knowing the dangers that can be involved.

Knate ~ I do not make light of the the deaths from the flu and I am sure Lynn did not mean it that way either. I just don't think it is practical to scare the beejeezes out of everyone especially when the vaccine is not completely available right now. It takes a longtime to grow those badboys. I just don't think this year is going to be any worse, or at least not much worse (I hope) then any other year.

A "pandemic" simply means that something is prevalent over a large geographic area. The common cold is also pandemic. The economic crisis is pandemic.

My question is 1000 deaths out of how many infected? Why didn't they include that info, too? Percentages will tell you more than just saying "1000" dead.

According to the CDC, the "common" flu infects 5% to 20% of the population, annually. From that number, about 200,000 are hospitalized & about 36,000 die. So what are the numbers for H1N1???

source:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/disease.htm

Knate ~ I was refering to the gov.'t and Mr. Obama .... I am sorry for not relating that properly.

Here is some medical information about influenza:

Influenza, commonly referred to as the flu, is an infectious disease caused by RNA viruses of the family Orthomyxoviridae (the influenza viruses), that affects birds and mammals. The name influenza is Italian and means "influence" (Latin: influentia).

The most common symptoms of the disease are chills, fever, sore throat, muscle pains, severe headache, coughing, weakness and general discomfort.

 Sore throat, Fever and coughs are the most frequent symptoms.

In more serious cases, influenza causes pneumonia, which can be fatal, particularly for the young and the elderly.

Although it is often confused with other influenza-like illnesses, especially the common cold, influenza is a much more severe disease than the common cold and is caused by a different type of virus.


Influenza spreads around the world in seasonal epidemics, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands annually — millions in pandemic years.

Three influenza pandemics occurred in the 20th century and killed tens of millions of people, with each of these pandemics being caused by the appearance of a new strain of the virus in humans.

...........

That is the truth.  And it means, people should take prudent and rational actions to avoid influenza - and, depending on their personal circumstances, deal with it as a potentially serious disease if they catch it.

Personally, knowing the truth about the flu - and what to do - does not scare me.  It does the opposite.  It informs me on how I can avoid it and not have to unduly worry about the flu at all.

Dear Laura,

Thank you for clarifying.

Dear Barb,

I'm not clear with the point you're making so I won't make any judgments about it, but here is what I am saying:

I am 66 with some serious chronic health conditions, and I get a chemo shot every week and my immune system is suppressed.

Should anyone say I should not take prudent and rational actions to avoid the flu?  And any contagious disease or illness?   I think it would be incredibly stupid of me not to take prudent and rational actions to avoid the flu.  I think anyone who has a chronic disease, is elderly or young or takes chemo would be stupid to not take prudent and rational actions to avoid the flu.

That is all I am saying.  People are best served by taking reasonable and rational precautions.  What's the big deal with that?  How can anyone say or imply that is panicking?  I don't see why anyone in this thread should have a problem with me saying that. 

If people wish to argue with what Barack Obama says, I would appreciate they not address their posts to me. I'm responsible for what I say; not for what Barack Obama says.

According to the CDC, swine flu infections have already peaked, and the pandemic is on its way out. Peak infection time was the middle of October, where one in five U.S. children experienced the flu, says the CDC. Out of nearly 14,000 suspected flu cases tested during the week ending on October 10, 2009, 99.6% of those were influenza A, and the vast majority of those were confirmed as H1N1 swine flu infections. (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/)

Even though the H1N1 pandemic appears to have peaked out, U.S. President Barack Obama has now declared a national emergency over swine flu infections. The reasoning behind such a declaration? According to the White House, it's designed to "allow hospitals to better handle the surge in patients" by allowing them to bypass certain federal laws.

That's the public explanation for this, but the real agenda behind this declaration may be far more sinister. Declaring a national emergency immediately gives federal authorities dangerous new powers that can now be enforced at gunpoint, including:

• The power to force mandatory swine flu vaccinations on the entire population.

• The power to arrest, quarantine or "involuntarily transport" anyone who refuses a swine flu vaccination.

• The power to quarantine an entire city and halt all travel in or out of that city.

• The power to enter any home or office without a search warrant and order the destruction of any belongings or structures deemed to be a threat to public health.

• The effective nullification of the Bill of Rights. Your right to due process, to being safe from government search and seizure, and to remain silent to avoid self-incrimination are all null and void under a Presidential declaration of a national emergency.

None of this means that federal agents are going to march door to door arresting people at gunpoint if they refuse the vaccine, but they could if they wanted to. Your rights as an American are no longer recognized under this national emergency declaration.

The declaration of this national emergency seems suspicious from the start. Where's the emergency? The number of people killed by swine flu in the United States is far smaller than the number of people killed each year from seasonal flu, according to CDC statistics. People obviously aren't dropping dead by the millions from H1N1 influenza. Most people are just getting mild flu symptoms and a few days later they're fine.

So where's the emergency?

The only emergency I can see is the emergency fabricated by Big Pharma to sell more vaccines. By declaring a national emergency over the H1N1 pandemic, Obama is playing right into their hands.

I find the timing of all this curious. Two days ago, New York gave up on its efforts to require mandatory vaccinations of health care workers. This was designed to defuse a large number of planned protests from health freedom-conscious people who don't want government-mandated chemicals pumped into their veins.

http://www.naturalnews.com/027323_swine_flu_national_emergency_pandemic.html

Where are the testing stats that confirm every/any 'flu' death is in fact caused from "h1N1" - are they testing every single case of flu to confirm if they are H1N1 or not

CBS

If you've been diagnosed "probable" or "presumed" 2009 H1N1 or "swine flu" in recent months, you may be surprised to know this: odds are you didn’t have H1N1 flu.

In fact, you probably didn’t have flu at all. That's according to state-by-state test results obtained in a three-month-long CBS News investigation.

The ramifications of this finding are important. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Britain's National Health Service, once you have H1N1 flu, you're immune from future outbreaks of the same virus. Those who think they've had H1N1 flu -- but haven't -- might mistakenly presume they're immune. As a result, they might skip taking a vaccine that could help them, and expose themselves to others with H1N1 flu under the mistaken belief they won't catch it. Parents might not keep sick children home from school, mistakenly believing they've already had H1N1 flu.

Why the uncertainty about who has and who hasn't had H1N1 flu?

CBSNews.com report on H1N1

In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?

Some public health officials privately disagreed with the decision to stop testing and counting, telling CBS News that continued tracking of this new and possibly changing virus was important because H1N1 has a different epidemiology, affects younger people more than seasonal flu and has been shown to have a higher case fatality rate than other flu virus strains.

CBS News learned that the decision to stop counting H1N1 flu cases was made so hastily that states weren't given the opportunity to provide input. Instead, on July 24, the Council for State and Territorial Epidemiologists, CSTE, issued the following notice to state public health officials on behalf of the CDC:

"Attached are the Q&As that will be posted on the CDC website tomorrow explaining why CDC is no longer reporting case counts for novel H1N1. CDC would have liked to have run these by you for input but unfortunately there was not enough time before these needed to be posted (emphasis added)."

When CDC did not provide us with the material, we filed a Freedom of Information request with the Department of Health and Human Services (HH. More than two months later, the request has not been fulfilled. We also asked CDC for state-by-state test results prior to halting of testing and tracking, but CDC was again, initially, unresponsive.

While we waited for CDC to provide the data, which it eventually did, we asked all 50 states for their statistics on state lab-confirmed H1N1 prior to the halt of individual testing and counting in July. The results reveal a pattern that surprised a number of health care professionals we consulted. The vast majority of cases were negative for H1N1 as well as seasonal flu, despite the fact that many states were specifically testing patients deemed to be most likely to have H1N1 flu, based on symptoms and risk factors, such as travel to Mexico.

I would, and do, take Laura's advice, which is good advice during flu season in any year.

Dear David,

Thank you for addressing the issue of why Barack Obama may be issuing this declaration now. And the issue of vaccines and Big Pharma.

...............................................

Dear Katii,

I can't speak to that article but I do know this:  Influenza with influenza symptoms, whichever flu it is, is just striking the community where I live and the people who live in areas around me.  What is hitting here is not a common cold.  However the medical authorities classify what is happening, that's their issue.  Here, in my home community, we have to deal with a flu (that isn't a common cold) that has already sent some to hospital.

If it has already come and gone everywhere else in the country and the world, I am glad to hear it.

Knate - Sorry if I was unclear! I was wondering what the mortality percentage was of those infected. That's the tech in me! If 2,000 people got H1N1 & 1,000 died - then H1N1 is a deadly risk for anyone coming into contact. If it's 1,000 deaths from 2 million infected, then the "common" flu is a more significant concern.

I think vaccinating is a personal choice for everyone. If you have a challenged immune system, then you're probably at risk. That's kinda standard when looking at any contagious issue - immune systems that are weakened for any reason are more susceptible.

Personally, I'm not too concerned for myself. For one thing, we have a lot of guys working in the barns who are from Mexico, Guatemala, etc. We all touch the same door knobs, gate handles, etc. While I do wash my hands constantly [more so to prevent infecting one horse after treating another], I'm pretty sure I've been exposed to H1N1 & my immune system has fought it off.  Of course I'm also around things like salmonella, E.coli, strep, etc with no problems. Heck, that's probably why I do have a strong immune system. I'd love to do a titer test!   

Hmm... I wonder if my [lack of] cooking skills has anything to do with a strong immune system, too...???

I didn't know you were taking chemo shots, Knate! Be well, big guy, & know that you're in my thoughts & prayers! [Even if you did vote for Obama. ] 

Dear Barb,

I agree with you 100%:  People should only get the vaccine if they want to.  personal choice - and people shouldn't be "scared" into taking any vaccine. 

.........

Dear everyone,

The peak of the flu season in the United States, officially, is considered to run from approximately late November through March.  That's according to the CDC.

"In the United States, the peak of flu season has occurred anywhere from late November through March."

See, David's post brings up one of the chief concerns I had about getting the flu shot. Time was, I used to get a flu shot every year but after awhile, my suspicions about the safety of these and other vaccines have caused me to forego the shot for the last two years. As well, I'm starting not to trust mass innoculations such as these for the reasons stated above (runaway government control, suspect profit motives/big pharma/government collusion, etc.). Maybe it's just me getting old and cynical, but there is something not quite kosher about all this.

Be that as it may, I've decided to err on the side of caution (just barely) and get both shots when they become available.

The Swine Flu shot will be available in November and the regular seasonal one is scheduled for December and January (a little later than usual).

Dear Barb,

In September, my doctors did show me a secret medical study that reveals, Conservatives and true American Patriots have stronger immune and more effective immune systems than wimpy Liberals and socialism-loving Democrats, so I've been working on adjusting my political opinions and...amazing!  After just a few weeks I am feeling much healthier already!

Dear Christian,

IMO, people should realize, flu vaccine shots are not harmless for everyone.  Some people can have severe reactions - and people should be aware if they are at risk.  In any case, like Barb says, it should be a personal decision based on the best possible knowledge one can acquire.

It's why Republicans don't want health care. They don't need it, so why should others get it?

"In September, my doctors did show me a secret medical study that reveals, Conservatives and true American Patriots have stronger immune and more effective immune systems than wimpy Liberals and socialism-loving Democrats, so I've been working on adjusting my political opinions and...amazing!  After just a few weeks I am feeling much healthier already!" - Knate

 Ah hah - I Knew it!!!!!! Welcome to the club!!!!!!

  to Christian and to Barb.

I hope that chemo works wonders for you, Knate.

My choice is to take the vaccine. The swine flu is starting to sweep over Norway these days. Our health authorities are also advicing everyone to get vaccinated.

Christian, the vaccine used today is not similar to the one used in 1976. It  is suspected that the vaccine used in 1976 was contaminated. The eggs used today for growing the vaccine are under far better control. Therefore the risk of GBS is presumed being significant less than dying of the swine flu itself.

(My source is in Norwegian, so I believe it is rather usless printing it here. )

Dear Bente,

Earlier this season I took a flu shot - it wasn't the H1N1 flu shot - but the regular one they usually offer in the States, which "protects" against a strain of the flu that never seems to appear.  I know that makes no sense and I'm wondering why I bothered to get the shot at all.

As for getting any more shots than I have to, I think I'll pass on that. My arms already have more holes in them than an alibi by Bill Clinton.

Knate, you have my sympathy for being "holed through".

Dear Bente,

There are many people I see every day who have it a million times worse than I do.  I have it easy; painless and very easy.  No complaints at all.

BTW, Katii...I also agree....

Laura, your "precautions" are excellent and work for the vast majority of people.

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama has declared the swine flu outbreak a national emergency, allowing hospitals and local governments to speedily set up alternate sites for treatment and triage of any surge of patients, the White House said.

The declaration Saturday did not signify any unanticipated worsening in the United States of the H1N1 outbreak, officials said. It seemed likely, however, to increase concerns, disruptions and at times, panicky reactions, to a disease now affecting most parts of the world.

At some vaccination sites people have stood in line through the night; hundreds have been turned away. On Chicago’s North Side, Mary Kate Merna, 28, a teacher, arrived too late. “I thought I’d be a priority, being nine months pregnant,” she said. “You hear it’s a national emergency and it scares you.”

On Sunday, swine flu reached high into the sporting world, delaying a key French soccer match in Marseille. The game between rivals Paris Saint-Germain and the Olympique de Marseille was postponed after a third player on the Paris team was diagnosed with the H1N1 virus. The cancellation was announced hours before the match at the 60,000-seat Stade Velodrome.

The disease continued to spread rapidly in parts of the Northern Hemisphere, though it has slowed in much of the Southern Hemisphere. Worldwide, the swine flu has claimed nearly 5,000 lives, according to the World Health Organization. U.S. officials say more than 1,000 Americans have died because of it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/health/26H1N1.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

David's post is very, very chilling. I too have been reading these same things. Wild horses could not force me to get this vaccine. If our government tries to make me, they will have to use extreme force, and I will hide or run if I see them coming. If I had a child, I would run with the child.

I wish you all well with your decisions in this matter. Everyone must make their own decision, but they would be well advised to research this very carefully, and always, ALWAYS to take into account one of Knate's favourite sayings:

FOLLOW THE MONEY.

I agree with Barb, and I think this is scaremongering (not by Knate, BTW), and BIG PHARMA is behind it (as per David's post).

I believe that our immune system is THE most precious thing we have. It is our best chance for having and keeping good health. I also believe that the way to build it up is through nutrition and exercise - healthy eating and healthy living. I believe that vaccinations compromise the immune system, and that each one we have compromises it further.

If I was in Knate's position, I might feel differently. But I will mention that Bill's mother who is 93, will not have a flu vaccination. She advocates putting Vicks up her nose before going out in public, and she never gets a cold or flu. Good advice, IMO.

This is all just MHO. Please note - my HUMBLE opinion, based on a lot of reading.

Also chilling is how kindergarten EASY it is for your government to bypass your BILL OF RIGHTS.

Dear Kath,

I have no intention of getting the H1N1 flu vaccine.  I have every intention of using reasonable precautions to make sure I am not exposed to anyone who has already caught the virus.

Knate

I'm sorry - I misunderstood your phrase "special precautions" that you mentioned in your post about your whole building.

Bente, I figured the current vaccine was much safer than the one used in 1976, because back then, the President, Gerald Ford, was a Republican, so it totally made sense that any vaccination program administered under his watch would be more dangerous than the swine flu itself.

I wish I was joking.

Knate, I think the point in the article that is of most interest is that the CDC doesn't freakin' know who's got the 'swine flu' and who doesn't so it's surely looking like a bunch of fear-mongering going on in order to sell these shots and nose squirts to 100's of millions of people. 

Based on the information uncovered by CBS I am really pissed off at Obama for feeding into what is, IMO, a great big scam and money-maker for some drug companies. 

"National Emergency"

Someone needs to show Mr. Obama the findings of CBS's investigation.

Anyway, I just made some cranberry walnut oatmeal cookies - anyone want some?

I always get the seasonal flu shot - I have asthma.  I don't know what I will do about the H1N1 vaccine.

Dear Katii,

I think we all feel the same about Big Pharma; not the most trustworthy, they are; being in the business of selling for the highest privces those meds we need the most.

Personally I'm not one who likes ingesting or placing inside my body any meds I don't feel I need. Just, in fact, cut out quite a number of meds over the past few years for that  very reason.  Feel the same about vaccines and I think it always prudent to be cautious, not anxious, to take whatever is advertized.

That whole "advertizing" of meds and drugs we have in the States irks me. If I believed to those ads I read in magazines (etc), I'd be taking 200 pills a day.  They make it sound like they're all harmless candy that, if taken, will make life just so perfectly wonderful and carefree.  Until one reads the microscopic print with the warnings.

To me, viruses are real; influenza is real; influenza is potentially dangerous.  But taking shots and meds without caution is equally dangerous; maybe moreso because we're exposed more to Big Pharma trying to sell us damned near anything and everything we can shove into our mouths.

For many of us, we have to make a choice. The dangers of one thing weighed against the dangers of another. But I agree with you and others, Katii, we had better know as much as possible about what we are doing - and we should never take anything just for the heck of it.

Dear Elizabeth,

I sure understand when choices need to be made.  I hope the shots work for you.

Dear Katii,

I'd love to have a cookie.  Or two.

I'll have one or six, thankyou. I can smell them now ... mmmmmm

Anyone want some fresh, cold chocolate milk with those cookies?

Everyone must make the decision themselves to have or not have to have any drug injected into their body themselves by weighing the risks:  is suffering 'any' flu more dangerous than a vaccine that can and has caused death and other very serioius 'side effects' like the one that is described in the article I've linked to below.

Anyone considering accepting a swine flu vaccination should read this article - it's not a fear-mongering article but it has some very interesting if not serious information that everyone needs to know about before they have this vaccine administered to them:  Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America

My doctors are not pushing the H1N1 shots and President Obama has said that his daughters will not get it ..... You need to follow the advice of your doctors on this one and do what they say - but here is the interesting thing .... Obama knew this was coming - declares this 'big emergency' just before the tea party protests are reving up again (so warnings started to circulate about people gathering -but they did anyway - HUGE turnout in San Diego ?today was it) - not to mention the elctions coming in a couple of weeks - maybe this will help cause a lighter voter turn out?

Anyway he knows this is flu is here and on the rise so he declares this emergency when he knows damn well there are not enough vaccines (blaming it on the chickens - really he is .... Why was he not working hard to make sure the vaccines were in place? We have them here in Canada?

Remember what's his pickle Emmanual said something to the effect of them 'always wanting to take the greatest advantage of every emergency?'

Knate - if u need the shot and can't get it there let me know - You come up here and get it .... my treat! 

Please note:

I deleted a couple of my posts where I revealed some personal medical information - about me and about Charlene - that I should not have revealed.

(I am not deleting anyone else's references to what I said.)

But I feel that personal information should not have been brought into this conversation.  That was my mistake.  I apologize for making it a personal issue in that way. For any other posts here, if I do post anything else, I will direct my words - impersonally - only to the Obama "emergency" declaration, to Big Pharm or to influenza itself.

Charlene, those look very much like my cookies ... did you sneak in and out of here without my notice?

I also made a huge pot of veggie soup yesterday morning that we enjoyed for lunch and linner (linner: the equivalent of brunch served after breakfast and before lunch)

We ate most of the cookies while watching the Cowboys spank the Falcons yesterday

Sorry but Swine Flu isn't EVEN an epidemic yet. This is ridiculous.

I am supposed to get flu shots for "almost asthma" (highly techincal term that the doctor actually did use).  I did for a few years but haven't for the past five.  Then for some reason I stopped and take precaustions to simply avoid getting sick.  That is what I will do this tyear for any and all kinds of flu and the cold as well.

WASH YOUR HANDS!

Cover yourself when you sneeze or couhg.  Stay home if you are sick.  Carry Purell or other alcohol based antiseptic.  Wash you hands after using common equipment.  Etc. Etc. Etc.

Always good advice, Nancy.

Did Obama actually say it is an epidemic? 

I thiink we're all saying, do not get a flu shot unless "you" think you actually need one.  Ask questions; get answers.  Trust your own medical authorities and trust your own instincts.

New York State Gov. David Paterson declared a state of emergency, saying a recent rise in swine flu cases has created a “disaster” and that certain provisions of state law needed to be set aside to get people vaccinated as quickly as possible.

The executive order Thursday means that far more health care professionals — including dentists, dental hygienists, podiatrists, pharmacists, midwives and physicians assistants — will be permitted to administer swine flu and seasonal flu vaccines with only brief training.

I work in a hospital and saw this thread when it first appeared.  I hesitate to have a strong opinion on this due to the fact that I not only read the pros and cons but I am waiting to see how the vaccine affects my coworkers, almost all who are receiving the vaccine.  Doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists, all of us who have direct patient contact.  I was not allowed to receive the vaccine due a recent health situation.  I wanted to receive it.

At any rate I have seen the cases that come to my unit and sent to ICU as they deteriorate quickly. Mostly these are very young people.  It is a nasty bug.You don't want to get this.  Even healthy people can become extremely ill.

There is a greater chance of getting this virus by going out in public than in a hospital at this point. And I am more concerned about acquiring the virus than the side affects of the vaccine.  But that's just me.  I'm on the front lines lol!

I work in a hospital and saw this thread when it first appeared.  I hesitate to have a strong opinion on this due to the fact that I not only read the pros and cons but I am waiting to see how the vaccine affects my coworkers, almost all who are receiving the vaccine.  Doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists, all of us who have direct patient contact.  I was not allowed to receive the vaccine due a recent health situation.  I wanted to receive it.

At any rate I have seen the cases that come to my unit and sent to ICU as they deteriorate quickly. Mostly these are very young people.  It is a nasty bug.You don't want to get this.  Even healthy people can become extremely ill.

There is a greater chance of getting this virus by going out in public than in a hospital at this point. And I am more concerned about acquiring the virus than the side affects of the vaccine.  But that's just me.  I'm on the front lines lol!

Dear Rachel,

Thank you for giving us your point of view. 

How do others hospital workers feel about this H1N1 vaccine and aboutm this flu?

Hi Rachel

At any rate I have seen the cases that come to my unit and sent to ICU as they deteriorate quickly. Mostly these are very young people.  It is a nasty bug.You don't want to get this.  Even healthy people can become extremely ill.

I'm curious - do you know if these people are actually tested for and confirmed as actually having H1N1. Is you hospital going against CDC recommendations not to test for it?  How many patients have you seen that have been confirmed as having this flu and have died from it?  Also, what is the treatment for it in ICU?

Too, I would be very interested in knowing if any of your co-workers who have had the swine flu vaccine get it anyway.  I've always wondered just how effective these shots 'really' are - is there anyway to really know except by assuming that worked because someone didn't get the flu?

had a discussion with my doc last week and he's so funny-well we all have to die of something. And one in three people will die of cancer-that sounds more epidemic to me than The Swine-courtesy of tressa's detroit relatives. has everyone heard that hospitals have been ordered to report every flu death as The Swine, whether it is or not.

Katii Hi!

We do test every potential case...they are immediately isolated if they present with symptoms and many test negative.  I don't have the answers to your  questions but I would like to know too. There are certain questions that must be answered before the vaccine is given relating to recent illnesses or conditions.  In my case I was advised against it.  I don't have a clue about deaths.  As far as I know no deaths in my hospital.

Stephanie I haven't heard that one.  I find that extremely difficult to believe.  It is hush hush and hospitals don't like that bad publicity.

My guess would be that if they have had the swine flu they would not receive the vaccine - they already have immunities.  This is just a sensible guess.

The treatment can be intubation in certain cases. And of course the treatment would be according to the individual case. And of course I know that (off the record) some people are given tamiflu immediately and it shortens the duration of the illness.

FactCheck.Org:

Wild rumors are flying about the newly developed vaccine for pandemic influenza H1N1, also known as "swine flu."

We’ve seen e-mails stating that the vaccine is tainted with antifreeze or Agent Orange, causes Gulf War syndrome, or has killed U.S. Navy sailors. One says the vaccine is an "evil depopulation scheme." The claims are nearly pure bunk, with only trace amounts of fact.

If you are the sort who trusts anonymous e-mails more than you do doctors and experts from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, you may wish to stop reading now. For others, here are the facts as stated by the best authorities we can find:

• The vaccine does have some risks – the same risks as the seasonal flu vaccine. Except for the virus, it is functionally identical to the vaccine that’s given every year.
• The multidose formulation of the vaccine contains thimerosal, which prevents contamination. Some have accused thimerosal of causing developmental disorders in children, but scientific evidence doesn’t support this.
• The vaccine does not contain squalene, which has been accused – also without good evidence – of causing Gulf War syndrome.
• There’s no reason to believe that a vaccination would cause Guillain-Barre syndrome. GBS was associated with several hundred flu vaccinations in 1976, but there’s been no evidence of an association since then, despite close monitoring.
• While it’s true that a Navy vessel was prevented from deploying because of a flu outbreak, that had nothing to do with the vaccine, which hadn’t been developed at the time. And there were no deaths aboard the ship, as some e-mails claim.
• Vaccination is not mandatory for the public nationally or in any state, although New York requires that health care providers get vaccinated. Massachusetts legislation granting standby powers in case of health emergencies does not require vaccination or establish quarantine "camps."

We’re starting to feel nostalgic for the early days of the swine flu pandemic, when the rumors centered around devastated villages and zombies in Cambodia.

The crop of falsehoods about the H1N1 vaccine, though, are potentially much more dangerous, since they encourage the credulous to avoid vaccination at all costs. These myths fall into two loose categories: claims that the vaccine is tainted or dangerous, and claims that the government is going to make it mandatory anyway and punish anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated.

Read more from FactCheck.Org:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/inoculation-misinformation/

So,,,,when did BHObama's kids get their flu shots?..it is a national emergency, after all....

I saw in the last couple days that YES, the Obama daughter's were getting flu shots. 

Knate thanks!

Has anyone ever read Oliver Sacks' book Awakenings?  Not the movie, the book.  It is a compilation of case studies of the 1918 H1N1 outbreak.  Oliver Sacks just happens to be my hero in many ways.  Just love that man and have read almost all of his books. 

I think what I had to juggle over this swine flu situation is that there are neuro threats if you get the vaccine and neuro threats if you catch the flu.  I hope everyone knows that I have only given my little vague opinion in the matter and I do believe strongly that it is a personal choice.  A gamble perhaps. I don't worry much about these things though.  I'm just not a worrier!!!

By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

WASHINGTON, Oct 30 (Reuters) - Only half of the people in the United States who most need immediate treatment for H1N1 swine flu are actually seeking it, even as the virus spreads at unprecedented speed, U.S. health officials said on Friday.

The latest count shows 114 children have been killed by the virus in the United States since April, during a time when there is usually virtually no influenza, said U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Thomas Frieden.

H1N1 is widespread, he said, and case counts continue to rise in most states.

"One of the things that we have been surprised to see is even among people who have underlying conditions such as asthma, heart disease or lung disease, only half sought care," Frieden told reporters in a briefing.

At the same time, emergency departments were crowded but often with people who did not need medical care, he said.

CDC researchers estimated this week that as many as 5.7 million people in the United States have been infected so far, with at least 1,300 deaths.

The pandemic influenza is mild to moderate in most people but it can cause sudden, severe and overwhelming disease in certain groups, such as those with chronic disease.

Unlike seasonal influenza, which is dangerous mostly to the elderly, this new strain is hitting younger adults and children -- including at least a third with no previous health condition.

"People with underlying conditions who have fever or cough should see their provider promptly," Frieden said.

Frieden said the CDC had a cumulative 26.6 million doses of vaccine available -- far short of the 40 million that had been forecast for October. Lines have formed outside clinics as people seek the vaccine.

Next Page1| 2Previous PageWith Dad a world leader and Nobel Prize winner, Malia and Sasha Obama surely could have been first in line when vaccinations began for swine flu. They weren't, the White House says. But that hasn't stopped complaints that President Barack Obama's daughters got preferential treatment.





"You definitely think there's some favoritism going on," said Vernon Stanley, who stood for hours in the snow Tuesday to get his 6-year-old granddaughter vaccinated near Salt Lake City.





Snarky comments began popping up on blogs and other online sites after Tuesday's announcement that the Obama girls got vaccinated by the White House doctor last week.




"We have two very compromised special needs children in our home" but can't find any vaccine, Walter Ponfick of New Braunfels, Texas, said in comments posted on a Fox News blog. "Makes me think just the important population is able to be taken care of."




Many doctors and public health experts have a different take.




For one thing, children are one of the high-risk groups the government says should get swine flu vaccine first. Even then, the Obama girls weren't rushed to the head of the line. They got their vaccine at least two weeks after the first Americans received their shots and, according to Michelle Obama's spokeswoman, only after vaccine became available to other Washington schoolchildren. And no vaccine shortages have been reported in Washington's schools.





Announcing that the girls have been vaccinated "is a great example for all families," said Dr. Judith Palfrey, president of the American Academy of Pediatrics. "It's an important statement about how important vaccines are."




Emory University vaccine expert Saad Omer said his research has shown that parents are likely to support immunization if they learn that their doctors have vaccinated their own children. The Obamas' decision could be just as influential, he said.





Dr. Mark Dworkin, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Illinois at Chicago, agreed. And he suggested there is good reason to give preferential treatment to the presidential daughters, 11-year-old Malia and 8-year-old Sasha.

I was looking through the CDC site in reference to H1N1. I noticed this:

 "The proportion of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) based on the 122 Cities Report has increased and has been higher than what is expected at this time of year for four weeks now."

 http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm 

If you hit the "death" link, it goes to a graph that also combines pneumonia cases with influenza. Some of the charts on that page simply say, "influenza-like illness" [ILI]. That seems vague. [They are more specific with the pediatric fatalities.]

My questions: How many of those deaths [not counting pediatric] were specifically confirmed as H1N1 cases? What's the morbidity rate of H1N1 & what's the percentage of deaths per confirmed cases?  

Well reading through all this I can only say is that I hope they are overblowing this H1N1.
I remember history too well not to get my flu shot. I remember days when people died of things we merely shrug off now... of seeing polio victims and iron lungs. I'm thankful that so many people can shrug this off as mere hoopla. It is good those bad old days don't show up anymore.

But all it will take is for a mere mutation of a single flu virus and we will once again have the Spanish Flu epidemic of the 1st world war. It came around in the early spring all those years ago and then in the late fall returned, mutated and millions died. We've missed the bullet so often on viruses. Does anyone here remember the incident with Ebola when it mutated and was passed on through air transmission? No, well it happened just outside Washington D.C. in an animal research lab some decades ago. The only thing that saved us was that the virus remained only transmittable amongst lower primates. So yeah... like that virus this H1N1 may well remain an empty threat.

But like Knate... I'm getting my flu shot because we both remember history and know that things can turn so fast. So yeah... all this hoopla does tend to overblow things, but like I said Knate and I remember history. So I ain't gonna gamble on this one either.

CDC: H1N1 spreading even as supply of vaccine grows

To prevent getting H1N1, health officials continue to urge vaccination.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* CDC: 48 states are reporting widespread flu activity

* There have been 114 pediatric deaths since April

* 26.6 million doses of H1N1 vaccine are now available in the United States

* WHO is donating vaccine to countries unable to buy enough

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- As the new H1N1 flu virus keeps spreading, more vaccine is available to fight it, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Friday.

Forty-eight states are reporting widespread flu activity, two more than a week ago, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden said at the CDC's weekly briefing.

There have been 114 pediatric deaths since April, when the H1N1 virus first emerged, with 19 reported to the CDC in the past week, he said.

Frieden also told reporters on Friday that in the past two months, more people younger than 65 have been hospitalized than would be expected in a full season of more common strains of flu.

He urged people with underlying illnesses who exhibit flu symptoms to seek medical attention promptly, saying that only half of the people in this high-risk group appear to be doing so.

To prevent getting H1N1, health officials continue to urge vaccination, and that might be becoming easier, Frieden said.

"We have more vaccine," he told reporters Friday -- 26.6 million doses are now available in the United States, up more than 10 million doses from a week ago.

The CDC had hoped to have 40 million doses of vaccine by the end of October, but vaccine-manufacturing delays forced them to revise that number down to 28 million.

Earlier Friday, the latest recommendations from the Strategic Advisory Group of Experts on Immunization (SAGE) were discussed by Dr. Marie-Paule Kieny, director of the Initiative for Vaccine Research at the World Health Organization.

The experts met Wednesday to review the current status of the H1N1 pandemic vaccines, including the results of clinical trials.

SAGE has concluded that one dose of H1N1 vaccine is sufficient for children older than 10, the vaccine is safe for pregnant women, and it can often be given at the same time as seasonal vaccines, said Kieny, speaking to reporters via teleconference from Geneva, Switzerland.

Doctors have found there is an immune response to the vaccine in children as young as 6 months. More clinical trials are being done on children ages 6 months to 10 years and on people with immune deficiency disorders, Kieny said.

She noted that in September, the European Medicines Agency (EMEA) recommended that children receive two doses of the H1N1 vaccine, as has the CDC in Atlanta, Georgia.

However, the EMEA also acknowledged that one dose may be sufficient, if a child has received a flu vaccine before.

Some countries may opt to give one shot in order to vaccinate more people, and that is their option, Kieny said. Nations also have a right to choose which company to use to supply the vaccine.

Not every country is getting the same vaccine. The virus for the vaccine distributed in the United States is grown in chicken eggs. Some vaccine licensed in Europe has been manufactured using a new cell-based technology.

Also, in some countries the vaccine has an added booster called an "adjuvant" to amplify the vaccine's ability to produce antibodies. Other countries, like the United States, are using non-adjuvanted vaccine. This makes a difference in how the vaccine works and how many doses may be necessary.

As a result, countries may have different guidelines.

Trials involving several thousand pregnant women are showing that the safety of the H1N1 vaccine is similar to that of the seasonal vaccine, Kieny said. Pregnant women should be vaccinated because they are at "significantly higher risk for infection," especially in their second and third trimesters, she noted.

WHO is donating vaccine to countries unable to buy enough. She said the goal is to distribute 200 million doses, which should allow 95 percent of the eligible nations to vaccinate at least 10 percent of their population.


Link

CDC says H1N1 deaths likely will climb

Last Week's 19 Child Deaths Biggest Jump Yet; CDC Releases More Tamiflu

 That's playing with fire, as H1N1 swine flu can become deadly very quickly...


Link



KANSAS CITY, Kan. -- The family of a 39-year-old Kansas City, Kan., man said they are mystified how an otherwise healthy man could die from the H1N1 flu virus.

According to his mother, Chuck Bernhardy was sick at home for less than three days before he ended up at KU Medical Center, where he died this week.

Bernhardy's mother, Hazel Hook, said he began coughing one day, followed the next day with headache, diarrhea, nausea and fever. She said by day three, he was coughing blood.

"He looked at me and said, 'Momma, I don't want to die,'" Hook said. "I looked at him and said, 'Chuck, you're going to the hospital so you won't die.' (I) guess I lied to him."

Bernhardy fought the virus for 21 days in the ICU at KU Med, but died on Monday.

Hook said she asked his doctor, "Why him and not me?"

"He said it would go through a healthy person quicker than a person who was sick," Hook said. "If I would have known that those was all the symptoms, I'd have made him go to the hospital sooner. But I didn't know. Because he was so healthy. I thought he just had a cold."

Hook said it was remarkable how quickly things deteriorated from that first day.

Hook said she hopes her son's story will teach other healthy people not to take this new flu strain lightly.

"He was planning a trip to Alaska. He never made that one," Hook said. "He was our rock. He was the head of the family. He took care of all of us. He held the family together. And now he's gone, and we're going to have to try to make it without him."

Link

Have any of you heard Dr Tenpenny speak? She's a doc who's big into the whole homeopathic movement. I just went to one of her sites & read this on the front page:

 H1N1 Swine Flu Package Insert Information

Thought this might be fodder for discussion. This video not only talks about H1N1 but vaccines in general. Please watch it to the end - it has some interesting info about the nasal spray.

http://osteomed2.com/default.aspx

Barb thanks for this info.  This flu is nothing to sneeze at npi, and this is good info!

You're welcome, Rachel!

One thing to consider about the swine flu epidemic of 1918, and other earlier ones, is the fact that doctors didn't have the antibiotics, IV therapy, and i'm sure other relevant treatments, to treat complications such as pneumonia and dehydration.

Not to say that nasty mutations of viruses and antibiotic resistant bacteria don't pose a threat today. I did just hear Sanjay Gupta say that the death rate for H1N1 isn't any higher than the regular flu strain and 2/3 of children that have died had underlying health complications.

I agree Barb, there are a lot of questions to ask about vaccines.

By Don Sapatkin and Jennifer Lin

Inquirer Staff Writers

Philadelphia declared a public health emergency yesterday, an administrative action that mainly gives hospital emergency rooms more flexibility in dealing with increasing numbers of swine flu patients, most of whom are not seriously ill.

Visits to ERs in the city are up about 25 percent over this time last year, officials said, a statistic that combines far greater increases at pediatric hospitals with lesser increases at acute-care facilities.

Mayor Nutter's declaration, a week after President Obama made a similar announcement for the nation, allows city hospitals to use alternative spaces, permits easier transfer of patients between facilities, and waives certain requirements on bed limits and length of stay.

"I cannot stress this enough - if you have mild flu symptoms, please do not go to the emergency room," Health Commissioner Donald Schwarz, who made the recommendation to Nutter, said in a statement. "If medical staff and hospital staff have to deal with nonemergency cases, this diverts resources away from where they are desperately needed."

A spokeswoman for the New Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services said the state had no plans to declare an emergency.

Gov. Rendell said Pennsylvania also had the authority to handle the illness so far.

The state's medical board is expanding the scope of care that can be handled by physician assistants, Rendell said at a news conference.

And the state has given waivers to hospitals to more quickly set up alternative sites to handle a surge of patients, he said, citing the extra ER that Children's Hospital of Philadelphia set up in its atrium a week ago.

Most cases of swine flu have been among children and young adults.

"I have almost no chance of contracting it," Rendell said. "A, because I'm older, and B, I have shaken about 180,000 hands in the last 10 years, so I'm immune to any communicable disease."

"As I tell my staff," he said, "if an alien virus came to Earth and killed everyone, it would be me and the cockroaches surviving."

For mortals at risk from the flu, immunization is recommended and hard to find. A few health departments have enough to schedule public flu clinics for priority groups.

Comment:

My main question is, "What the hell is going on?"

Some authorities say there is a flu pandemic occurring right now in the States.  Others say there is not.

Some authorities say child deaths are on the increase from this flu.  Others say they are not.  Some say young adults are at risk.  Some say they are not. Some say the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease; some say that is untrue.

What the hell is going on?  Who is to believed and who should not be believed?  Why such extreme and different views by so many so-called authorities?  What's going on?

"Never let a good crisis go to waste"


Is it just coincidental that the H1N1 is reaching 'crisis' proportions in the midst of the 'health care' scare (and at Hallowe'en at that.) The Chicago BHObaMafia manipulate so many levels of information that we cannot trust anything that comes out of the White House. They lie about jobs 'creation and savings', they lie about unemployment, they lie about health care provisions, they lie about the war, they lie about automobile production, they lie about everything.



Are hospitals being told to report every flu case as being H1N1. ?

Robert,

More and more people I know, personally and online, are saying exactly what you are saying.

Sure we're paranoid...but with BHObama you can't be too paranoid. You have to be paranoid enough.

I don't consider concerns stated in this thread to be paranoia. I see them as reasonable concerns.

How can the CDC make any claims about how many cases of H1N1 there are or deaths related to it when they aren't requiring hospitals to test for it but in fact 'advised' them not to (per the CBS investigation I posted above) ? 

Robert, I have to agree with you that Obama is a liar, no more or less than the oval idiot was a liar.  Obama didn't lied to start a 6 year long (so far) war like the ex-president but if I remember correctly he got elected by promising healthcare reform, transparency, 'changing how washington works,' and getting out of Iraq (the war he voted to fund as a Senator)  - but hasn't and isn't doing any of it - unless you count a 2,000 page piece of proposed legislation that will make sure the medical industry can keep screwing the public.

Due to mutations, vaccines geared toward viruses are usually dicey. Remember, several years ago, when the West Nile Virus first made it's presence known in North America? WNV turned out to be a huge threat in the horse industry. We were in Florida & that was considered WNV ground zero.

Fort Dodge [veterinary pharmacy lab] came out with a rush job vaccine. Since it was an "emergency" it was approved by the govt without meeting specific testing protocol. [Sound familiar?] Unlike most livestock vaccine, it could only be purchased & administered by a licensed veterinarian & was very expensive.   

Typically, if you're going to administer them yourself to your own stock, you can purchase equine vaccines for $5 to $10 per from livestock or veterinary supply companies. The WNV vaccine was $30 to $50 per & a booster was necessary. [Add in the vet's fees and keep in mind that many breeders have herds ranging from 10 to 100 or more horses.] People were told if they didn't vaccinate immediately, their herds would be wiped out.

At about that time, I read a paper that was given to me by a friend. [She was a tech for a holistic vet.] I can't recall who funded the study but it had pulled titer levels on several large FL herds. It said over 80% of the horses tested had WNV antibodies - meaning those animals had been exposed to the virus but their immune systems had fought it off. That's the way things usually go with viruses.

Meanwhile, people were vaccinating for WNV as if the world was going to end. Two things made me pause. One was that I knew of several horses who had died & were called WNV cases even though there had been no necropsy or blood/tissue exams done. [They were quite possibly EEE cases - Eastern Equine Encephalitis.] Then there was the fact that Fort Dodge said the vac was OK for ALL broodmares. This concerned me. We never vaccinate in the first 60 days of gestation since DNA is still forming & everything is vulnerable.

When vaccinated horses started getting WNV, the company said Floridians should vaccinate twice a year since we were in a high risk region. I chose to use nosodes made by the holistic vet. None of my horses came down with WNV.

I knew several people who had grossly deformed foals [missing limbs, etc] the next year. Others had had a high number of broodmares abort. They had all vaccinated those mares early in their pregnancies. Fort Dodge denied culpability. I also knew several people who had vaccinated as advised but their horses still came down with WNV. When they contacted Fort Dodge, they were told that, since they were in FL & that was ground zero, they needed to vaccinate four times a year. Huh??? The rules kept changing & any vaccine that has to be given four times per year is, IMHO, pretty damn useless.   

In other words, it was a train wreck.

Today, there are equine WNV vaccines that are manufactured by other companies. I use those. Granted, no vaccine is 100% effective & that's even more of an issue when dealing with viruses. Still, I guess what it comes down to is I really don't trust any drug that's "rushed" or promoted via scare tactics.

This whole H1N1 situation keeps reminding me of Florida & WNV... it's deja vu all over again.

How to prevent getting swine flu and what to do if you have it

Sunday, November 1, 2009

Andrew Pekosz, an associate professor of molecular microbiology and immunology at Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, answers questions about H1N1 swine flu.

How can I tell if I have swine flu? And does it matter if it's that flu or the seasonal one?

Virtually all the cases of influenza occurring at this time are caused by 2009 H1N1. While individuals with severe flu-like illness are being tested to determine for certain which virus is causing the disease, there is no need for most people to get tested.

How do I know if I or someone in my family should go to the hospital?

Some key symptoms to watch for include rapid but shallow breathing, difficulty in breathing and lethargy or extreme weakness. A complete list of symptoms can be found at http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/sick.htm#3.

What is the best source of information about the H1N1 virus?

There are couple of Web sites that provide good general information on the H1N1 virus; the one I like for information to the general public is http://www.flu.gov, but be sure to check with your state or county public health department.

Who should get vaccinated? What are the priority groups?

There are several priority groups being targeted for vaccination while the vaccine is in short supply. The complete list is at http://www.flu.gov/individualfamily/vaccination/vprioritygroups.html but includes pregnant women, health-care and emergency medical personnel, household contacts or caregivers of children under the age of 6 months, anyone between the ages of 6 months and 24 years of age, and people age 25 to 64 who have underlying medical conditions.

What's the difference between nasal spray and injection? Who should get what kind?

The nasal-spray vaccine is a weakened form of the virus that does not cause influenza but does generate a good immune response. The injectable vaccine is an inactivated or "killed" form of the virus which is injected into the muscle of your arm. The nasal spray is only available to healthy individuals age 2 to 49, while the injectable vaccine is available to a wider range of the population. More information is available at http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/general.htm.

If I can't get the vaccine right away, is it still worth getting it later?

Yes. . . . We are not certain how long the flu season will last, or if we will have several flu seasons or "waves" this year, so when vaccine becomes available, everyone should take advantage of it.

How quickly does the vaccination take effect? Is it possible to come down with the flu soon after getting vaccinated?

After three weeks, most people have an immune response that will protect them from infection with 2009 H1N1. The immune response begins to be detected seven to seven to 10 days after vaccination. The vaccines cannot cause the flu, but you certainly could catch influenza during the time after vaccination when your body hasn't developed a strong anti-influenza immune response.

Should everyone who comes down with the flu take Tamiflu or Relenza?

No. The CDC guidelines recommend that only individuals who are in high-risk groups should receive Tamiflu or Relenza at the first sign of symptoms. If you develop symptoms of severe influenza, then you should seek out medical treatment and begin to take Tamiflu and Relenza. For most people who will come down with the mild form of the disease, the use of Tamiflu or Relenza is not recommended in order to ensure enough of the drugs are available.

They are saying on our Canadian news that if you take Lipitor (which is for high cholesteral) you may get some immunity from this flu .... imagine that ....

My clinic doctors are not reccomending the swine flu shot and will not have them or their family members get it because they came out to fast ....

As the holidays are approaching my wife and I have decided to get our shopping done early (our kids are too) to try and avoid the huge crowds and we are not attending the usual huge Christmas parties we do every year just to try and be a bit safer ....

Lots of hand washing and should any of us get it the rest will help out by staying away .... that is all you can do but the biggest danger appears to be with very young children.  We had a five year old girl in apparent good health pass away four days after being diagnosed with this flu ..... watch out for chest infections especially in the very old (as I look in the mirror), anyone with underlying conditions and the very young.

Dear Northern,

It seems they are not necessarily recommending a flu shot for people over 64.

They are saying, most people affected are young adults and young children.

The paranoid post was a joke.

Robert,

My answer about reasonable concerns referred to people who have questions about (1) whether there is a pandemic and (2) whether they should believe they need to get flu shots.  Although your post was a joke, there are people claiming anyone who has concerns about the safety of the shots is being paranoid.

And in Afghanistan, they've closed the schools because of the flu....

...................

KABUL (Reuters) - Afghanistan declared a health emergency on Monday to help the government prevent the rapid spread of H1N1 and ordered schools closed for three weeks as part of measures against the deadly virus.

The government has also advised the public against gatherings such as weddings in enclosed areas, after Afghanistan had its first death attributed to the virus last week.

Nearly 350 positive cases of H1N1 have been detected among foreigners and Afghans and several hundred more people are suspected to be infected, a public health ministry spokesman said.

The positive cases, 271 reported among expatriates and the rest among Afghans, reflect a dramatic rise in infections registered in recent months, Farid Raaid told Reuters.

"We have declared a health emergency state on the basis of which all private (and) governmental educational institutions as well as kindergartens have been ordered to close for three weeks."

Researches have shown that without applying preventative measures approximately 22 percent of the population will be infected by the disease, the public health ministry said in a statement.

One out of 80 cases of the influenza will die, it said.

"Therefore, if we assume population of Afghanistan between 25,000,000 to 30,000,000 a total 5.5-6.6 million population will be at risk of contracting ... and around 70,000 people will die of consequences of the disease," it added.

Take reasonable precautions and don't rely on the government to help. Bless them for trying but the truth is that the richest country in the world still has a 100% death rate; a disgrace some would say!

By YANA SEDOVA and SIMON SHUSTER (AP)

KIEV, Ukraine — Urging its citizens not to panic, Ukraine on Monday closed the nation's schools for a week to avoid the spread of swine flu and suggested that nightclubs, cinemas and food markets in the west also shut down.

The World Health Organization said Monday there was no evidence that Ukraine had a bad outbreak of swine flu but at the government's request it had sent a health team there to help the country cope.

"But this is not an indication that the situation is severe," said WHO spokeswoman Liuba Negru. "The information we have gotten (from the government), we have to double-check it and make sure it is real, evidence-based information."

Ukraine's Health Ministry said Monday that 70 people in the nation of 40 million have died of flu, but did not say how many of those deaths were related to swine flu. Worldwide, outbreaks of regular seasonal flu claim 50,000 lives each year.

Nevertheless, all schools have been closed for a week across Ukraine, even in the capital, Kiev, where there have been no confirmed cases of swine flu.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gZEiW5KQGUG6UipPRvyy8rMDXlqgD9BNIGK00

Poll: Almost half of Americans reject swine flu vaccine

By STEVEN THOMMA

McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON -- Despite a rising nationwide toll of sickness caused by the H1N1 flu virus and an intensive push by the government to have people vaccinated for it, almost half of Americans say they aren't likely to get the vaccine, according to a new McClatchy-Ipsos poll.

Just 52 percent of Americans say they're likely to get the vaccine: 33 percent who say they're very likely to get it and 19 percent who say they're somewhat likely.

Forty-seven percent say they aren't likely to get it: 30 percent who say they aren't at all likely to get vaccinated and 17 percent who say they aren't very likely to do it. The vaccine is available through a shot or a nasal spray.

The McClatchy-Ipsos poll also found rising opposition to the health care overhaul legislation that's before Congress. Some 49 percent of Americans now oppose it - up 7 points from October - while only 39 percent said they supported it. The poll had an error margin of 2.98 percentage points.

The surprising finding of widespread resistance to the swine flu vaccine comes as the illness continues to spread and a growing number of Americans say they're concerned about it: 63 percent now versus 51 percent last spring.

Nearly 25,000 people have contracted the flu so far in the United States, and 114 children have died from it.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/1314377.html

By William Mullen

Tribune reporter

November 4, 2009

With the H1N1 swine-flu vaccine still arriving slowly, some physicians also are raising questions about how it is being delivered. Below are edited excerpts of queries from readers, with answers:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-swine-flu-q-and-anov04,0,380893,print.story

I think the high percentage of Americans who are disinclined to get the H1N1 vaccine is more a statement of lack of trust in the govt than anything else. 

Dear Barb,

I agree with you.  There is a high level of mistrust.

I've posted various articles and news stories because,, to me, they reveal something.  On the one hand are the reports of the pandemic and the need for flu shots.  On the other hand, there are those who say there is no pandemic and there is no need for flu shots.  On the one hand, there are those who say the flu shots are perfectly safe; on the other hand, others say they are dangerous.

I find it amazing how many people are polarized about this.

But when you mention mistrust, Barb, that is certainly an emotion I am feeling.

I had my regular flu shot about a month ago. I got sick w/flu like symptoms at work yesterday. I'm home today. I work in a prison, so there are lots of germs. I do the hand washing thing, even use hand sanitizer.

BTW...I am not getting the N1N1 shot. I do not think there has been enough time to safely evaluate it. I have reservations about the regular flu shot too, however, in 1999 I was very sick w/flu. I remember I was throwing up for 2 days. I woke out of a light sleep and felt like I was dying. I called my friend Ray on the phone and asked him in the middle of the night to come and take me to the ER. I ended up having 2 bags of fluid put in me. It was a bad scare. So, I get the shot.

"What the hell is going on?" ~Knate

Excellent question.

I think the high percentage of Americans who are disinclined to get the H1N1 vaccine is more a statement of lack of trust in the govt than anything else. ~Barb

I agree, Barb.  Then, for me at least, add the already existing mistrust of big-profit big-pharma and there's no way I'd take one of those vaccines, and if I had children I think I would quarantine them myself before giving it to them.

And that's another thing.  If it's such a "national emergency" and children are in the greatest at-risk group, why in the hell aren't schools - the Disneyland for any communicable disease - being closed?

Zach's High School has had numerous cases of H1N1. They sent home a permission slip for the kids to get the vaccine. I signed that if Zach wanted it he could get it, however, it was his decision. He decided not to. I think that was due to my distrust of big pharma. They were giving the shots yesterday.

Dear Spooky,

I think it is wise for all of use to have some mistrust of Big Pharma.  They've earned it.

As for the flu, people where I live definitely are getting it.  Would the flu vaccine have "prevented" them from getting the flu?  Actually, all those I know who have the flu right now, also had flu shots.  So, who knows?

All I know is that the flu is a clear and present danger where I live - and I'm doing what I can to avoid it.  But another flu shot?  Not unless my doctor specialists insist I need it.

Yeah, it's a tough one for me. I have several health issues. When I was in the ER 1999, I told the Dr. I felt like I was dying. He said, well, technically, my body was beginning to shut down from all the vomiting. That's why I needed 2 bags of fluid. It was a very scary experience for me. I'm 10 years older now, it wouldn't be great to get the flu.

Dear Spooky,

We all have to make our own decisions with this and, IMO, it is always best for any of us, regardless of age or physical condition, to avoid the flu if we can.

I hope, Spooky, you find a decision that works for you and keeps you safe.

Lots of politics here. Seems like every administration has had trouble getting flu vaccines out. Remember when Hillary said this about Bush: "They're more interested in tax cuts for the rich than for flu shots for everyone who needs them," ?

I'm not sure what her opinion is now. The Obama adminstration is blaming the pharmaceutical industry. "Big Pharma" failed to deliver. I hope they don't want to take over that too!

Our school system and no schools in our county have even had the shots available to us. I have not decided what I want to do. I don't trust it. Like Spooky's son...my daughter if left with the option would opt out. I think that is due to my feelings as well.

"I think the high percentage of Americans who are disinclined to get the H1N1 vaccine is more a statement of lack of trust in the govt than anything else. "  Barb B

Absolutely.  I used to get flu shots but haven't gotten them for four years or so.  Don't miss them.  Haven't had any change in my health. 

BUT I do remember the 1976 swine flushots.  I had the shot the day before the program was canceled.  Back then, the government would admit when something wasn't working. 

While I don't plan to get the shot, I would If I was asked to as part of my job.  For example, if I did work in healthcare.  The vaccine is probably fine, but yes, it is the government that is pushing this.