I've been blogging on USA Today where I just finished commenting on how the state of California failed to monitor the guy that held the 11 year old girl hostage for 18 years and fathered 2 children with her. Gees, the children were even born without medical assistance and the first one was born while he was in prison for parole violation.

Then there's a sex offender in Ohio where at first they found 6 bodies in his house and then later it was 10. So here's my thoughts about this.

We're probably going to send more troops to Afghanistan, why not send the sex offenders and put them in special uniforms that would identify them as sex offenders. I mean we're only spending money on them when we put them in prison here so wouldn't it be a good idea to get something in return for the money we spend? It'd save on the bonuses given to get people to enlist plus if we let it be known to the Taliban the crimes these sex offenders committed I feel confident what they would do to them would reduce the amount of escalating sex crimes in this country. 

What does anybody else think about something like this?????

Ummmmmmmmmmmm. Because they would still be sex offenders in Afghanistan? Why inflict them on someone else's territory? Would the Taliban even care? Methinks not. I have to ask this, with no insult intended, have you actually given any thought at all to what you have just posted? You (and I or anyone else) may deplore the behaviour of these people, but they are people nonetheless and in a civilised society need and have the right to be treated as such. Kept away from society, of course, to protect other people. But you would have us throwing people to the lions next!

Serious sex offenders, IMO, should be placed in prison for life sentences, with no possibility of pardon or parole.

Or put on an extremely large boat???????????

I was waiting for someone to nominate them for painful medical experiments....

So they found another body in the home of the sex offender in Ohio bringing the toll up to eleven. My purpose in suggesting this was to focus on how our own country does not know how to solve their own problems yet recently a $680 billion dollar defense budget got signed by our president without as much as a single person being bothered about it. I mean the system lets one person after another slip through incompetence without one single hint at putting effort into becoming competent. We're going to pay for this and the war when people in this country are being reduced to nothing and no decent signs of hope.

I've watched the news a lot plus documentaries about world affairs. One news article brought up how a village in Afghanistan was having trouble with a teenage gang. The Taliban went in and found two of the gang leaders and cut their heads off. Then they hung their bodies in the center of the village. It's sounds very cruel but it's their culture, not ours. Probably in many of our own minds many of us feel like doing something cruel to those that violate others like these sex offenders. 

I think our own armed forces one out of every three females are said to be raped. That too is a problem that doesn't get resolved. What's it take to wake up people in the US into realizing we've got a lot of stuff going wrong besides political party differences or histories that are in the past and don't do a thing for our future. Cities and states don't even have enough money to function properly anymore so crime surely will rise a hell of a lot more then eleven women getting raped and killed. Plus the number is up to seven in those they arrested in the two and a half hour rape of the fifteen year old where over twenty people did nothing to help her as they just watched. That could be seven more for the endless war.

As to sending these sex offenders to Afghanistan, why not? We send decent young people there to come home in flag draped wood boxes, so why not these sex offenders? We're going to spend more money putting them in prison and receive nothing for that. The prisons are said to be over crowed and there's talk of releasing inmates to make room for more sent to prison, so why not send them there? I'm guessing the Taliban could handle them better than we know how to. 

OK Ken, some of what you say makes sense..........like the onscene amount the government spend on defense and that there are more important things than party politics. But the "string them up, chop off their heads" bit is just not an answer. Worse is your idea of getting someone else to do it for you! America is supposed to be a civilised country. The fact that you don't do that to people is what makes you civilised.

My main point in wording this the way I have Lynn is to hold up a mirror. The arguing about what political parties are doing in no different than sending sex offenders to Afghanistan. I see the posts on most subjects exactly the same as sending sex offenders to have the Taliban deal with them, I mean don't the complaining about what one politician or political party does look like the authors expect others to do what they aren't capable of???????

That would be an interesting Lynn. "Are we civilized?" On public TV news they honor those killed in Afghanistan and the other night the number was elven killed which was the same exact number the sex offender killed in Ohio. So, are we civilized?????

Ken, I think there is a thin veneer of civilisation coating all of the western world. It is up to decent people to make sure that veneer becomes solid.

I sure do agree with that Lynn but there seems to be a lack of decent people having the courage for the solidification process. Of course I not sure whether that veneer is thin or thick at the present time??????

Target practice? Great idea Ken! I have heard some very disturbing stories about the Afghan police and how some of them have had their jollies with little boys .... apparently that practise is quite common in Afghanistan .... I will try and find the story and post it here to show everyone the 'other shoe' as it were. Those stories have been reported by American and Canadian soldiers .... so yes, lets drop them on the head of the Taliban as well.

I have no care or concern at all for anyone who would hurt children. We had a great guy here in the 1970's by the name of Clifford Olson who has been sitting in jail since we paid him a million dollars to stop him .... Now every year he has parole issues come up and those parents of all the children he killed (and there were many) have to come forward and live the nighmare all over again - in an attempt to make sure he never gets out of prison. He should have been put to death.

Vengeance is a very destructive thing.

Everyone knows my opinion on that.

No point in discussing it..............I'll just have to agree to disagree with you, Northern and Ken.

I was involved in fighting some laws once and had a politician helping me. He'd inform me about all the game playing that goes on which I can clearly see that the public does not even have as much of a hint of  clue in what goes on. On these particular laws the federal government rated the states on how well they complied to the federal regulations and paid accordingly. So the state wanted more money from the federal government and were making laws to get more money. That's all. It had absolutely zero with doing anything for people, just money.

So I said to the politician, "I wonder how the federal government would like it if the process were reversed? We'll rate our cities, our cities can rate our states and our states can rate the federal government and we'll pay accordingly on how well they are doing." I only said that without meaning for that to happen which is what I did wth this thread.

Of course I can see where you'd not want to discuss this as the thread was meant to change the reasoning process from where our society is at.

Peace

not retribution

Serious sex offenders, IMO, should be placed in prison for life sentences, with no possibility of pardon or parole. ~Knate

Vengeance is a very destructive thing. ~Lynn

Prevention not retribution. ~Dgyps

Why dump sex offenders on the military and shift the problem they pose from one segment of our society to another? Just my opinion here, but not a good idea at all.

I'm with Knate, put them in prison where piped sunshine won't reach them and leave them there for the remainder of their lifetimes.

I only started this topic to challenge reasoning which I honestly can see I didn't do so well with. In my opinion society in our country is the enemy to be dealt with as I see our society lacking in their reasoning to make decisions and we're going backwards in life instead of forward. 

I agree with Lynn, there's no point in discussing it. 

Peace

Dear dgyps, Katii, Lynn and Roy,

Serious sex offenders are serious, destructive criminals.  IMO, they must be removed from general society - for life.

I agree, dgyps; prevention, whenever possible, and never retribution. I agree, Lynn: Vengeance is a very dangerous - and self-destructive thing.

I agree, Roy. Dump sex offenders on the military?  Never.

yeah, I think sex offenders should be utilized to help medicine find a cure for cancer. Failing that, they need to be executed. The only purspose sex offenders serve on this earth is to destroy lives in a most terrible way, many times young lives, babies and children. There is no rehabilitation and I do not like to see my tax dollars spent to feed, house, supply medical treatment for them.

Dear Spooky,

You are not alone in your feelings and your opinion.  I thank you for stating it so clearly and for having the courage to do so.

It's fine. Someone stated they were waiting for this post. My reason for feeling child molesters, oh hell, lets call it what it really is, people who rape children, ones as young a 1 and 2, as well as people who rape adults really have no place in a civilized world. Unless it is to further the good of others, by helping find a cure for incurable diseases, (poetic justice there). I don't think they should be tortured, never said that, that was putting words in my mouth. I believe what I did say is they should get the choice, a choice that is more than they ever gave their victims; live and do some good or be executed. Should they choose to live, let them be made as comfortable as possible while undergoing experiments. In my mind, it's not a punative thing, it's a logical thing. They are not going to change, so we protect society. Period.

Dear Spooky,

I never saw you advocate torture - or doing to these savage rapists what they, in kind, do to others.

And I totally understand - and, as I said, I am not unsympathetic at all with what you say or what you propose.  The crimes these rapists commit are more than serious crimes.  IMO, we don't have adequate language to describe how horrid these crimes are.  So I do understand, Spooky, what you mean and I do understand that your feelings, your opinions, do not come from cruelty.  I understand.

Spooky, although I totally disagree with what you say, I do understand why you say it and where you are coming from.

I'm wondering how you can know why I say what I said and where I'm coming from.

I do thank you very much though for expressing yourself in a civil manner.

Spooky, because I appreciate that other people have a different and quite logical viewpoint that might not agree with mine. Because LOGICALLY I can see what you mean. Therefore, I can see your point of view. That's all!

You have never given me any reason to be anything other than civilised.

Well, my reason for saying what I say, is pretty deep. For the past 15 years I have worked with sex offenders and their victims. I have seen more that I ever thought possible. That's where my point of view is coming from.

OK, Spooky, I see you have "first hand" experience. As a matter of interest my sister spent many years working for NACRO, National Association for the Care and Rehabilitation of Offenders. She worked exclusively with rapists, "sex offenders", violent psycopaths and murderers. She worked on the Jamie Bulger case. Her viewpoint is totally different, if not diametrically opposite, to yours. Later as a Consultant she was commisioned to do a report on one of the UKs largest prisons for the "criminally insane" and the Government didn't particularly like what she said about the inhumane and barbaric conditions, but they did follow most of her recommendations.

What I am saying is that your first hand experience doesn't make your opinion any MORE or any LESS valid than anyone elses. I respect the fact that you probably have more inside information on which to found your opinion. In the same way that people who have never been pregnant can have a valid opinion on abortion, white people can have an opinion about racial oppression etc, etc.  

What I actually don't like is the way you have "crept up" on the issue the way you have instead of stating your position properly to start with. Either have the courage of your convictions........or not.

Don't take that TOO personally, it isn't an attack, just an opinion. And to prove it;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

You cannot currently send a star to Spooky because you have done so within the last week.

I don't feel as though I've crept up on the issue, if I didn't state from the beginning I work in corrections, excuse me! Most people know, as I've been around C2 a long time. I actually do have the courage of my convictions, I am willing to stand on them all the way to the proverbial wall. Those who know me, know this. Passing judgement on those we don't know strikes me as not a great idea. Not really smart. Just my opinion, not an attack.  

Here in the states the corrections system is probably very different than in England. Our prisoners have all their medical needs met. Actually medical staff on site 24/7. They have cable tv 24/7. They have the freedom to work out from dawn to dusk. I've actually had a few state to me they didn't want to be released as they never had it so good. No, they were not kidding. They have alot of things many taxpayers don't. What's my point? There are no inhumane and barbaric conditions here. 

Jamie Bulger was the little boy who was taken by 2 older boys, led down the tracks and while he cried for him mommy, the boys killed him. Cut off his fingers, didn't they? Sprayed paint in his eyes. And the system over there gave these 2 new identities and turned them loose on society. I'll keep my comment on that to myself. I cannot find a way to remark upon that and remain civil. I remember when that happened. Watching the news on tv. My own child was 2. It hit me hard. Still does. I'd imagine it still hits Jamie's mom hard as well as his family. See, when a crime is done there is a ripple effect. It really never goes away.

Yep, we all have the right to our opinions.

Spooky, actually from what you say I don't think that main stream prison in the UK is very different from the USA. Of course people in prison get medical care! Seems strange that you would point that out as it seems normal to me!  Yes, you rmember the Jamie Bulger case correctly. The two boys concerned (and they were themselves only very young at the time) served a long period of detention and after that yes, they were given new identities for their own protection.

Sorry if I jumped to conclusions, Spooky.............and I confess that I did.

We can, I am sure, agree to disagree. 

what she said about the inhumane and barbaric conditions 

actually from what you say I don't think that main stream prison in the UK is very different from the USA ~Lynn

What were those inhumane and barbaric conditions and do you believe those conditions exist in US prisons?

Katii.............that was just the way my sister saw it. We are not talking about main stream prison here. This is a high security prison specifically for the "criminally insane". People who have been detained "at her Majesties pleasure". I believe that the staff are often brutal and that drugs are overused as a means of suppression; People are put into solitary confinement in padded sells to "calm them down", physical restraint is the norm and the attitude of the staff is often that of people who are in charge of "lower beings". I don't really know, but my sister would maybe think that something was barbaric that maybe I wouldn't, I don't know!  She did tell me that the place was filthy, litter and bags of rubbish allowed to pile up everywhere, unwashed bedding, that kind of thing. I have no idea if that is what things are like in USA prisons at all. I doubt it. I suspect they are the same as UK prisons. Although they are overcrowded and bad things do happen, they are, by and large, quite well run places.

Thank you so much for saying this; "Sorry if I jumped to conclusions, Spooky.............and I confess that I did." IMO, it takes class to make that kind of statement.

Yes, we can agree to disagree. And do it with civility!

After I typed out my post regarding Jamie Bulger I googled it to see if I remembered it correctly. I learned something I'd either forgotten I knew, or just didn't know before. Those boys, who were 10 years old, stalked Jamie. Actually, they also stalked another boy whose mom interfered with their plans. These boys carried out a premeditated murder. A ghastly murder. Now they are once again free, with new identities, Goddess help us, to roam society. I don't believe people just do something like what they did. It takes a committment. It is in their heart and soul. I don't think people who so crimes of this nature could be "normal" any more than you or I could do a crime like they did.

As far as medical care for prisoners goes, of course I think they should have it. For emergencies. Anything that is not a medical necessity, let them do their time, get parole, get a job, then pay for their own. It's not the best system, but over here, many people have to go without if they don't have insurance or Why should prisoners get their teeth fixed, have other elective surgeries on the taxpayers dime? If my taxes are to be used for free medical care, I'd rather give mine to indigent women/mothers and their children.

In the US any Offender is allowed to refuse medication at any time. Of course if being off their meds makes them assault staff or another offender, yes, they are placed in solitary. For the safety and security of everyone. This makes sense. Can't have people assaulting others. We do not have padded cells.

As far as laundry, the prison has a laundry service once a week. They also provide a washroom offenders can use.  

As far as staff with bad attitudes goes, that happens all over. I am always thinking there are clerks who give me less respect as a customer than I see our offenders get. Yes, there are bad apples. There are also good people. I wish I could share an incident that I was involved in this past week. Confidentiality forbids it though. Suffice to say if I see something happening to someone, know it's wrong, I will stand up to anyone until it is made right. That includes offenders.

Spooky, of course I was a bit confused about the medical thing because it is different in the USA to UK. In the UK everyone is entitled to free medical care anyway, so that right is extended, obviously, to prisoners too.

I am NOT justifying what Jamie Bulger's murderers did at all, but apparently they were both badly abused children too. It is tru what they say that people who are victims of abuse often become abusers themselves.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that anyone who IS a danger to either themselves or the rest of society should be kept in a safe place. I am convinced these boys would never have been released had they not been deemed "safe" to return into society.

The only difference between our opinions, Spooky, is our attitude towards the treatment of sex offenders. We can disagree on that..............most people seem to disagree with me on that one anyway, so I am used to it!!!!!