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Response to CT shooting
5 years ago

This is getting to be a bit unbearable.

Where was your inhinged passion for gun control two months ago, Senator? Gun control is not the entire solution. There are other issues at play here. One major issue that no one seems to want to accept in their pea brains.

That is the degredation of our nations morals, work ethic, and general attitude towards authority.

This is not a "religious" thing either. This is just a plain and simple situation of complete lack of respect and positive involvement in community. And LAN parties, online FPS' or MMORPG's do not count as community involvement.

I do not think we can legislate ourselves out of where we are heading at this point. Our system is simply too corrupt.

I think at this time I might actually be considering a move to a more rural community. A place where people still have a work ethic and are all involved in the community. Because the mindset I see coming out of Metropolitan areas is not healthy.

Ya, you have your blog and some piercings and ironic clothing so that means you have the answers. What do those dumb hicks know? Well, they know how to plan for a natural disaster, and they are smart enough to do it. and they help their fellow man in time of need. It is all about them getting theirs.

I think Sandy was a great example of the disconnect the city dwelling human has. When you watch a news update and see a huge line of people lined up to charge their cell phones instead of helping repair, clean-up, or acquire needed supplies it all sinks in fairly heavily.

We have to get out of this rut to get back to the nation we once were...

5 years ago

Buck, I can only assume you are talking about Lautenberg.  I have been trying to get rid of him for so long.  Painfully he remains and remains and remains....

I think your assessment of city dwellers is not truly a fair assessment as certainly not all are like that.  Many, some...yes.  Not all.  Many of those people who were trying to charge phones were helping others as well.  For many their cell phones were their only source of communication.  I know I used mine and my crank radio and still no real information was available for immediate areas to where you lived. 

That was a messed up time, some better prepared for it than others.  I have to stick up for the people here though.  If you weren't here, you don't know.  People lost lives and many thought they would lose their live.  So, I can agree there are some boneheads but not all.

Now, this issue about guns.  It does not simply pour out from the east coast.  Many in this state are strong supporters of the right to bear arms.  Many want some restrictions.  I think the minute this took place you knew it would all come down this way.  It's a tragedy involving the youngest and most innocent. People are concerned.  It happens too often.

I wish there was not such a rush to it all and that some reason and common ground can be found.  I'll give his office a call for you.  They love me.

By the way,  nice to see ya

5 years ago

 If you weren't here, you don't know.  People lost lives and many thought they would lose their live.  So, I can agree there are some boneheads but not all.

Well, I have been through about four hurricanes so I know a little. I know prepared and I know not prepared. I never said all were incompetent.

And ya, not everyone in the city is completely dependent on others but a lot are.

I am well aware not all "East Coasters" hate guns.

That is not what I was saying at all...

5 years ago

I get what you were saying but your blame was kind of directed in one way.

I've lived through hurricanes, noreasters, blizzareds, all sorts of extreme weather before too.  Nothing can compare  to this one though.  I also lived through the aftermath up close and personal of 911.  People here pull together, they really do in times of need.  The majority do.

People who are against guns will always be against guns and this gives them some real ammo (pun intended).  I realize there is so much more to this tragedy other than gun control.  It's just right now those voices will hold no ground in the wake and freshness of this tragedy. 

If they think that gun control is the sole answer to this, we are in deep shyte though.

5 years ago

I guess im of the more extreme view on gun-control, I'm of the sincere belief that more good people should be armed, the reason it's such a big issue with me is that every time such an atrocity occurs and everyone's asking the how and why such a thing could happen, I ask why was it not able to be stopped before so much carnage could take place, the story's you hear little about, no doubt.because of the lack of mass casualties leaves food for thought, 

A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.
• A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.
• A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.
• A

2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.
• A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.
• A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.
• A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.
• At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon. 2500 times last year alone legal gun owners stopped violent crime when confronted with it long before any police assistance.
Im a retired Vet and along with many thousands like me, as well as retired police, would be honored with such a task of protecting our children in schools, many of us would even proudly volunteer our services as we already have a lifetime retirement income, but no matter what we do in the end, we really have to examine the changes in society that has without question made such incidences of mass violence more common and even predictable then in the past, the sad part is that when I first heard of this atrocity in CT I was horrified and heart broken for sure, but sadly not as surprised as one would think, my initial response was "Oh God, not again", like any of us I don't have the answers, but I have ideas and opinions as we all do and this is where we all need to come together, I already have what guns I could ever want or need, so I'm not talking out of self interest, I just know if the emphasis is placed mainly on gun-control, then I will yet again turn on the news just to say, Oh God, Not again, 

This post was modified from its original form on 18 Dec, 10:16

This post was modified from its original form on 18 Dec, 10:17
5 years ago

"That is the degredation of our nations morals, work ethic, and general attitude towards authority. "

I want to agree with that and I also want to disagree with that.  Yes, general attitude toward an authority that can't even gets it's act together to prevent us from going off the fiscal cliff.


5 years ago

"I think Sandy was a great example of the disconnect the city dwelling human has. When you watch a news update and see a huge line of people lined up to charge their cell phones instead of helping repair, clean-up, or acquire needed supplies it all sinks in fairly heavily."

Gotta go with Suzanne on this one.  With no power or phone lines, how do you even KNOW where to go to help.  How do you even know if you can get out of your neighborhood?  Or contact your own insurance agent.

That many people so close togteher just means there is that much more of a mess.  Working from outside on in,  it takes time. 

I remember after 9/11 when my old roommates father was stuck at City College in Harlem for days.  No phone to call and say he was OK.  If he had a cell phone, it would have been better.  Yeah, they all slept on their desks and looked after each other till they could get home. 

5 years ago

Hi Allen, I am not against gun ownership.  I am just going to say both sides have a case in a way.  If people were armed, they probably could have stopped this or at least the magnitude of it.  However, the other thought is, if noone has guns, this would not happen.

I am not 100% on either scenario.

I do believe there will always be illegal guns around. 

I do agree there is so much more that has created these incidents then the ability to get your hands on a gun.  I think without addressing the issues in their entirety and just using guns as the scapegoat for it all will not resolve anything.

I do believe there is a common ground here, I just don't think the powers that be will find it.  It's always all or nothing it seems.

This post was modified from its original form on 18 Dec, 10:30
5 years ago

Hi Nancy

5 years ago

Hi everyone.

Allen, I have been thinking about what you say.  Will need to ponder a bit more. 

5 years ago

Hi Nancy, I think it's always a good idea to think things through rationally before making rash feel-good decisions that may or may not address the issue in a realistic and practical way, after all we all want to take the steps that not just make us feel like we're doing something but steps that will in reality work towards protecting our children and future generations from having to deal with such a nightmare come true in the future.

5 years ago

The government has taught us that they are the ones to help after a disaster and so no one prepares anymore. People aren't prepared for the communications infrastructure to go down, and in that case a charged cell phone does no good anyway. Solar storms--they're not unsual--can take down the power grid and other electronics.


I have an emergency supply of food and water. I have ham radio equipment and some backup power. If there is a disaster in my area, the best way I can help others is to be prepared myself. If I need government assistance I'll be grateful for it, but I'm going to assume for now  that they won't be there for me.

5 years ago

I have a couple good friends involved with pawn shops. One owns one and the other works at one. I think pawn shops are indicators of what people are thinking. When Obama got reelected, sales went down significantly with one exception--guns. Pawns (loans) and buying (by the pawn shop) went up. In other words, people are anticipating a bad economy, and restrictions on guns.


With the latest school shooting the average wait time for the FBI background check phone number increased at one of the shops to over 30 minutes as people rushed to buy guns. I'm not against gun control if it makes sense, but everytime we have these knee jerk reactions to shootings,all that seems to happen is that gun sales go way up.


As far as Obama's initiative. If Joe Biden is in charge, I can't see it going anywhere.

5 years ago

"The government has taught us that they are the ones to help after a disaster and so no one prepares anymore. "

YOu can't possibly mean that.  Of course people prepare.  Not all, however, are survivalists. 

5 years ago

With resepct to guns, and I do keep thinking about your comments Allen.

I was in upstate NY, about an hour away from Webster, NY.  (I have HS friends living in that town, BTW) IN webster on Monday, there was a fire with really was a set up for a nutso to kill firefighters and police officers.  The neighborhood burned after two firefighters were killed and two severely injured. 

How did that man get a gun?  (or guns)?  A convicted murderer and someone obviously a bit off.

5 years ago

A woman neighbor has been arrested for suppling the guns in the Webster shooting, is what I believe I saw this morning on the news. 

5 years ago

A better question to me Nancy is, why was this man on the street?

I think you can put tons of regulations on anything and there will still be an underground market if you find that is the only way to obtain what you want.

Have you noticed that just about every single one of these events was perpetrated by someone who illegally obtained the weapons.  None were licensed, legal holders of guns.

As far as the rest of how we in the East suk and are not prepared for one of the worst natural disasters in NJ that harmed 85% of our state and the populations within that area.  Someday maybe I will address what I think of the afterthoughts by many throughout our country.  It does not please me at all. 

I live here, lived through it, have friends or family in every affected areas.  I know the stories, not what the television chose to show.  Really pisses me off.

5 years ago

Yeah, why was he out on the street.  He had served his time from 1980 till 1998.  Out on parole till 2006 and then free.  Living with his sister.  yes, how did he get those weapons.

Suzanne- go for it about the attitudes towards the East.  As a northeaster by birth and first 40 yrs of life, I would probably agree with you. 

Hearing about people still without power or homes.  Soon to be turned out of Fema help.

5 years ago

Nancy, I was editing the above.  Took too long and now I can't change it.  Sorry for the way it reads and spells .  I was just typing and hit post.

I hope you are home now.   How's mom, did you have a nice visit? 

We are getting some nice snow right now.  My husband left to go plowing.  I don't think we'll get to much though, under 6" is expected.  Nasty driving though for sure if you have to.

On the other thing...

Fema is a joke.  Yup, people without homes, let alone power in their homes.  Maybe later...

This post was modified from its original form on 29 Dec, 10:01
5 years ago

I know that there were problems with FEMA in Cedar Rapids, where I used to live, after the 2008 flood. 

I was wondering ...
5 years ago

I think at this time I might actually be considering a move to a more rural community.  Buck

if maybe Buck did it????

He has been missing in action pretty much since this post. 

5 years ago

Yes, he has.  I noticed too.

5 years ago

Oh,    ...just you.

5 years ago

5 years ago

Ya know I was kidding......

I think he is here...
5 years ago

Chama River Fly Fishing

or possibly...
5 years ago
East Fork Jemez River

Please note...
5 years ago

I have not divulged the location of these beautiful locations for obvious reasons

This post was modified from its original form on 05 Jan, 12:08
5 years ago

So you won't give away Buck's hiding place? 

5 years ago

  I Vill Never Talk  ...

5 years ago

People can argue against guns as much as needed to feel better, but the truth is, and supported by facts, that the highest gun crime communities are the ones with the most strict gun-control regulations, and all but one of the mass shootings of the past 20yrs have occurred in "gun free zones", the little known fact that people don't like to acknowledge is that here in the U.S. in areas where conceal carry is common crime rate is down, while where guns are restricted or banned all-together its much higher, criminals have and always will prey on the defenseless, they want reward without risk, not to sound like an echo of the controversial Ted Nugent, but he was in-fact correct in saying more guns = less crime, laws will take guns out of the hands of criminals as effectively as laws have stopped drug users from gaining access to drugs, If laws had an impact on criminals we would be a crime free society (Start vigorously enforcing the already existing laws!) and this is all without mention that it's a "Constitutional" right that "shall not be infringed upon", and anyone questioning the so-called "intent" of our founding fathers I would suggest looking up letters of correspondence between them which are well documented,  they leave no doubt whatsoever of intent, before the constitution was even drafted the right to bear arms for the purpose of personnel defense was known as a "right of nature". So why is this such a big deal to me? Because I took an oath swearing to defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemy's foreign AND domestic, and to obey orders of my Commander in Chief, the exception being if it were an unlawful order, I don't think people truly understand the importance of the 2nd amendment to the entirety of the constitution as a whole. Disarming law-abiding citizens does not protect law-abiding citizens, and has zero effect on criminals. Today turn your backs on  2nd amendment freedoms, and tomorrow see which freedom they go after next, after all the constitution is merely a piece of paper right? a living, breathing, document that can be changed at the whim of government right?

The bill that Feinstein is pushing though congress is not a simple "assault weapons" ban, its a bill redefining the so-called term "assault weapons" to include ALL "semi auto"  firearms (different then full-auto which is already illegal), and ALL firearms with a removable magazine, this makes 75% of all handguns and 50% of all long guns to be considered as "assault weapons", not just the infamous AR's and AKs commonly thought of when thinking "assault weapons,"  but  your average .22, 9mm .40cal, .45 and so on, pistols used primarily for home and self defense, many of the "every day" hunting rifles and shot guns your fathers used for hunting when you were children. So whats left? Bolt or lever action  rifles with fixed-magazines, revolver's (perhaps single action only), and pump or single shot shotguns, and of course your black-powder rifles like were used during the civil war, and of those remaining firearms comes the requirement of federal registration, which in every other instance has been the precursor to a total confiscation.

So while our nation should be united in morning over the loss of innocent life, and finding "truly effective" ways to defend against such horrendous acts being committed in the future, the administration has used this tragedy to fire the first shot across the bow against the law-abiding gun owners of America, forcing us into taking a defensive stance against such an attack knowing that we cant afford to remain silent. An attack that will not change what happened in CT, nor will it prevent future tragedy's like this from occurring in the future.

That's the end of my rant, but my fight in defending our freedoms will never end.

This post was modified from its original form on 05 Jan, 13:05
5 years ago

Hi Allen, first, don't try to sweet talk me into telling you where Buck is

I am going to be pretty frank here (or Sue), this whole gun chatter comes off to me as the same old abortion chatter does.  Everyone chatters and worries about what the other is doing, when for the most part they should just butt out of peoples lives. 

Individual decision based by free people.  Both topics can lead to an end result of death.  I guess everyone is only tolerant of the deaths they choose.

To me, I say responsible people do responsible things.  I have never been big on punish all because of one or few.  There are other answers to the gun situation than what Feinstein would like.

This post was modified from its original form on 05 Jan, 13:17
5 years ago

That was the really short version of my thoughts.  I am in the middle of something.

5 years ago

Perhaps Buck is basking in the sunshine on some far away tropical island, I know that's what I would being doing were it possible

This post was modified from its original form on 05 Jan, 13:24
You might be right...
5 years ago

5 years ago

That one is not very tropical I suspect...

Nice try buddy...I vill never tell.....*bigestgrin*

5 years ago

Back to Gun Control , etc.

Hate to bring this all back up again but I was actually impressed with something that Greta Van Sustren said this morning on This week with George Stephanopolous.


"Gwen, I don't think Washington can necessarily answer the question for the nation," Van Susteren said. "What I'm trying to point out is that we all have to look at ourselves, as well, and look at how well we do—even like that PSA that Hollywood artists put out for gun control the other day, and then side by side, some group put all the violent movies they're in. I mean, this is a big discussion, a big national narrative that we all have to look at ourselves in terms of how our culture has now become to accept violence as an answer to problems, as a solution to problems. We see that on TV and movies all over."


I put that phrase in bold as an answer to this idea that teachers should be carrying or that there should be armed guards in schools.


I don't want to live in that world where we all have to carry guns just to feel safe and "defend" ourselves.

5 years ago

Allen, I do think about it and have been thinking about it.  I will continue to think about it.  I thought about it on December 24 at my mother's house when one hour away, firefighters died in the line of dutty and a crazy man set them up and burned down a nieghboirhood.

I don't think more guns are the answer.  I will say that I really do have a great deal of resepct for you and for your consistent belief in guns.  If the schools in my area did have volunteers with guns monitoring school, I would want you there. 

And finally, if individual school chose to have volunteers such as you describe guard schools, then it is their right. 

5 years ago

Hi Nancy, the shooting your talking about was committed by a felon who was in violation of the law by possessing firearms, and the woman who provided him the firearms was in violation of the law by providing a know felon with firearms, so laws in this case made no difference because both parties intentionally ignored the law, there is no law to force another to abide by the law, which goes right to the heart of gun control, passing new laws to enforce already existing laws does not make the lawless become law-abiding.It might be a "feel good" measure for some, but doesn't make anyone safer.

5 years ago

I do reaize that.  ANd my intent is not toe add new laws.  Again- still thinking it through.  But thanks for responding.

Two sides...
5 years ago

I in no way want to see responsible gun owners have stiffer regulations and more costly regulations.  I am pretty sure I said it above.  I really do not like punishing all for some who don't play by the rules.  Allen is right, those same people who don't play by the rules now, will not play by new rules either.  So the only people suffering higher cost, higher regulation are the law (regulation) abiders.

On the other hand, the thinking could be if there are no guns or certain kind of guns allowed, certain kinds of ammo allowed.  Well, noone could shoot another.

The only problem is there will always be an illegal gun trade that will allow someone who shouldn't to possess a gun.  No new regulations will stop that.

What to do?  Which hand do you pick?  I tend to stick with the law-abiding gun owners simply because there will always be guns through an illegal market.  I do not wish to punish good people for something that is not their doing and not within their control.

It is a tough topic.  The no guns = no deaths sounds so simple and true.  But it really isn't so simple or true.

I have shot a couple guns in the past.  Loved it.  Wasn't bad at hitting my target.  Non-living targets (of course ) but it was great.  I do not nor ever have owned any type of gun, other than bb. (again non-living targets). 

Just some thoughts...

5 years ago

This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jan, 17:08
5 years ago

I find this interesting because it seems to be a common trend among the states, mine included (although not listed here)


* During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.

* Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the percentage of Chicago murders committed with handguns has averaged about 40% higher than it was before the law took effect.

* Since the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law, the Florida murder rate has averaged 36% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 15% lower.

* Since the outset of the Texas right-to-carry law, the Texas murder rate has averaged 30% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 28% lower.

* Since the outset of the Michigan right-to-carry law, the Michigan murder rate has averaged 4% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 2% lower.

5 years ago

Good Evening Allen

This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jan, 17:53
5 years ago

Good evening Suzanne Soon to be goodnight for me as I have surgery in the morning (minor), but I'll be back soon enough even if just to see whats going on, keep the pot stirred lol.

5 years ago

That's me the stirrer-upper. 

I hope your surgery is nothing to icky or painful and that all goes well.  I will be sending my good wishes, be sure to catch them.  You be well...

5 years ago

You will never find a solution here that will satisfy everyone.

After WWII MacArthur disarmed Japan with a property tax. (Mr Yamaguchi! Our records show that you own a 7.7 Arasaka! That will be $400.00 american please or you have to give up the weapon.)

In my mind the only way to restore reason to security is an old one. In the 9th century every able bodied man was required to report the the village green in England for target practice after church on Sunday. Today every police officer must "qualify" at the range once per year. They are observerved for fire dicipline, as well as mental state. I own 'em, and can use 'em. I can see no harm in using this to make us a force to protect the things we love rather than signal an opening at a post office by flying the flag at half mast.

5 years ago

I'm a huge advocate for training, but there is a big difference between law-enforcement vs the average citizen, unlike law-enforcement we don't seek out to confront criminal activity nor intentionally put ourselves into harms way on a daily basis as law-enforcement is required to do as part of their job, for us it is simply a last resort in self defense against an act of violence directed towards us that would likely result in serious bodily harm or death.

I don't know how it is for every state, but here I am required to take an approved firearms safety course and undergo another background check each time I renew my permit to carry, and at anytime should I be convicted of a felony, any crime involving a physical assault, or be served an order for protection against me, my permit becomes invalid and must be surrendered.immediately.

Further more, my state does not have the Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground protections in place, meaning that should I ever use a weapon in self defense, regardless of the circumstances, I will be arrested, detained, and treated as guilty until proven innocent by a jury, and then when or if I'm proven innocent, I am still subject to civil law-suits against me by family members of the indavidual I shot in self defense. All this is made very clear during the training and certification process, so every permit carrier is fully aware of the consequence's involved in a self defense situation.

So for me as a permit holder, and most other permit holders in my state, even the thought of using a gun in self defense is taken very seriously with the knowledge of what would immediately  follow after such an action, so when my choices are between what I mentioned above and death, only then would my gun be used against another human being.

That's the difference between law-abiding citizens and criminals, we give a damn about the law and the consequences for our actions.

This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jan, 21:41
5 years ago

Thanks Allen for that explanation.  It makes perfect sense to me.

II don't know gun regulations from state to state, but that seems to be a good one you guys already have in place. 

5 years ago

"I have shot a couple guns in the past.  Loved it.  Wasn't bad at hitting my target. "

Don't shoot stupidface!

5 years ago

Oh, Hell   Never...never...never!

Didn't you see in the cute thread I ruined it for Allen I did.

5 years ago

By the way Allen, I hope all went well today. 

5 years ago

I did see the thread.  That is how I remembered stupidface.  I think he is cute.

Allen- me too.

5 years ago

Thank you Suzanne and Nancy, im at home now but still getting over the affects of anesthesia and whatever other drugs they used on me, the doc said it will be a slow recovery but all went well.

Thanks again and have a wonderful night

This post was modified from its original form on 07 Jan, 16:23
5 years ago

Glad to hear it and thanks for checking in and letting us know.  Hopefully all that crap they put into you will wear off soon and easily, or maybe it's a good thing

5 years ago

Allen, Arizona has some of the most lax gun laws in the nation. Only Texas is our superior in this way. Here you need no permit to carry concealed, and there is no safety course. I think the results speak for themselves here.

I am not an advocate for gun control in the sense that the media whips up the fervor. I do advocate a sense of maturity and responsibility. I think we must build community in order to achieve that. A level of trust built on a local level if you will. Every thought I have heard concerning regulation is aimed towars the future. Not a word about what is already in circulation. People that have them will grow more desparate and afraid, and people that don't will grow more resentful.

There are indeed times when the folks with law enforcement training get in over their heads.

Sometimes they need help too. Here it takes a minimum of two hours. It is not always someone else"s job.

5 years ago


Reasonable training and background checks is one area I have always been supportive of, as well as personal responsibility/accountability of gun owners, these are things I believe that we all benefit from, and would also reflect well on all gun owners, even as a passionate supporter of liberal gun rights, I can still find area's of agreement and have an understanding towards the concerns of others. I know it can sometimes be hard to see this about me when I feel that I'm cornered into taking a defensive stance on the issue, reacting to threats that I feel go way beyond reasonable, there are indeed extremes on both sides of the issue.

This post was modified from its original form on 07 Jan, 18:35
re: my last post
5 years ago

(legislative threats)  not personally directed towards any member in this thread

This post was modified from its original form on 07 Jan, 19:15
5 years ago

Allen, I do not percieve you as a threat. It would never be possible for you to disarm me. You paid for that.

What I see is an attitude of social irrespnsibility that sinks to the core of society.

We are coming to a place in our country where if the 2nd amendment means something to you one must earn it if our nation is to survive. Otherwise anarchy. No one that loves their country will stand by and allow that to happen;.

Just so you can know my thinking here.....I also own a fire extinguisher. That dosen't mean I intend to burn down the house.

When the 2nd amendment was writen we all trusted each other to know what the right thing to do was. Those definitions are changing now. Are our differences our strength? Or not?

The first ten amendments read to me like "government! Thou shalt not, thou shalt not, thou shalt not!" Until we get to amendment 10 which says to me...."If there is anything we forgot about, you can't do that either without a popular vote;."

To remove, (weaken),  any one of the original bill of rights can cause the others to collapse.

The 1st will not be safe, the 4th, the 5th, and so on. Every one of them stand or fall on the 2nd. It's not me you fear. It is people that grew up in your own house, and never learned how to be a citizen.

5 years ago

I am just starting to read through these posts.  I am not a gun expert or regulatory expert on this matter, but I am pretty sure New Jersey has some of the strictist controls.  People die here all the time, every day on the news someone shot pretty much.  Very rarely are these attached to law abiding citizens or probably even legal guns. 

Just saying...

Going back to read.

I'm still reading...
5 years ago

but I totally get what  your saying, Allen, as far as coming off almost over defensive of an issue.   Which you really are not. 

It's hard to argue a logic of  no guns = no deaths.  Ultimately yeah the bullet in the gun kills someone but not really that easy, so much more to it.  You defend it and come off sounding like a gun nut which you are not.

It happens at so many levels of discussion and areas of same.  The conversation almost makes you appear extreme, when you are not, just because...

5 years ago

Just to clarify, I said  "Reacting to threats", as in threats to over-regulate, which in this most current attempt, I believe is driven by emotions over reason.

5 years ago

When the 2nd amendment was writen we all trusted each other to know what the right thing to do was.

John, the above is powerful and true and to the heart of the matter.  Just so you know as naive as it may be I still have faith and trust.   There are bad actors for sure.  There always have been.  We are just bigger now, more accessible.  It's out there more. 

I still have enough faith that I trust most people to do the right thing.

I firmly believe those that do the right thing should not be punished for those that don't.  No matter what is put in place, those that will act badly...will.

It's deeper than guns, they are just there...

for you grammar people...sorry
5 years ago

you = you're

5 years ago

I never saw Allen as extreme . I don't think of myself that way. I see us as coming towards the same problem from different directions. We are both disturbed by the turn of events. To say we were not would not be so.

I think to get this under "control", (lets be honest, that is what we seek). some responsiblity must be taken. Just how much and by whom is going to be a negotiated issue. There is enough sadness in this to last a decade more.

I saw things ,and did things I never want my chilren to learn. I don't want that for you either. I did all of this in the belief that we would not have to contend with it at home. I failed you. It's not just coming. its in your face, right now. What are you willing to do?

5 years ago

I never saw Allen as extreme either.

I was speaking more generally.  How these times make it appear that when you defend what you believe becomes something else and is used as a weapon against you as being extreme.  I am not sure if that makes sense.

John, you didn't fail us. 

What you endured has nothing to do with this.  It's so much more than that.  It is society. 

There has been a breakdown over the generations.  I am not sure if it is based on influx of different cultures/people and what stands in their lands.  I am not sure if it is lack of family, lack of support from birth to adulthood.  I am not sure if it is missed diagnosis or over medication.  I am not sure if it is access to the world 24 hours a day.

What creates these killers is not the gun?

This post was modified from its original form on 07 Jan, 20:43
5 years ago

One thing I would like to put out there as food for thought...

We all agree on the "need for training", but whats not often talked about is using ammo itself as back door weapon to implement effective gun control that side-steps the 2nd amendment all-together, the ammo I purchase has tripled in price over the past five years, on average it costs anywhere between 1 and 5 dollars per round (and this is for range ammo), much more if you take a look at defensive ammo which can range between $30 to $60 per box of only 20 rounds, and now they are trying to push a 50% tax rate on "all" ammo, they are fully conscious of what their doing, its much easier and faster to go after what feeds the product, while at the same time you are attempting to eliminate the product itself (guns), also a very effective diversionary tactic as well. Unfortunately this is also a huge deterrent towards the average citizen being barley able to afford ammo, let alone enough to effectively practice. My range shooting/practice costs me between on average a $100+ per trip, I pay the cost because I feel it important, but its easy to understand how this can be extremely difficult for many, being trained to properly and effectively us a firearm should not be restricted only to those who can afford such a "luxury", which is what it has become,  .

This post was modified from its original form on 07 Jan, 21:04
5 years ago

Allen, keep in perspective that according to FBI statistics the average home conflict, (Invasion), lasts ten seconds and three rounds are expended no matter how it turns out.

In my book if you need more than that , you need to be someplace else

The problem is not so much that we want the ability to defend ourselves....It has more to do with what we should defrend ourselves from. That is where the fracture will be found.

5 years ago

I don't see any of us here in this thread as extreme regardless of our different point of views, in-fact I have been encouraged that there is much we can agree on, especially the acknowledgement that none of us know the perfect solution, sincere conviction on things you truly believe in, is something I admire and respect as long as its intent is of a good heart and mind. Now I shall shut-up before I come across as sappy, which I am NOT! lol

5 years ago

John, my point was towards proper training, which is one of the things most agree on, but proper training also requires being able to practice, and practice often.

5 years ago

And yes, also back-door restrictions

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