This subject has confused the life out of me over the years, so can anyone please provide a definitive way in which the 3 Legs of Mann should point?

Here are a few images that provide examples that lead to my confusion!

The world Famous Laxey Wheel, Look which way the 3 Legs are pointing!!!

Hopefully someone, somewhere can help.

Thanks in advance.

Peter

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This has been discussed for a long time.... and I am not aware that any conclusion has been reached.

Frances Coakley at A Manx Notebookhas (from "Mona Miscellany p.21):

"Although the early representations showed the legs running clockwise (supporting the supposition they are derived from a sun symbol) later representations showed both clockwise and anticlockwise. This latter case gave rise to pun:

With one leg I spurn Ireland,
With the second I kick Scotland,
And with the third I kneel to England

The modern rendition is to run the legs clockwise"

Go here to read more

That of course does not give the reason/significance as to which is the correct way, if there is one. Nor does it state as to why the change was made.

At http://www.montaguemillennium.com/familyresearch/mann.htm

we find a reference to the fact that the Sicilian connection had the 3 legs running clockwise....

At http://flagspot.net/flags/im.html#tri

we find a comment made by Christine Cain (tongue in cheek perhaps) stating:

"Local people have an explanation as to why the legs turn anti-clockwise; this is in order that we do not kneel to the British!"

Christine Cain, 4 April 2002

At http://www.soroptimist.3legs.net/threelegs.htm

we find the comment:

"The correct way for the legs to run is clockwise from East to West following the course of the sun across the sky." 

more...

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At Wikipedia we find:

The Isle of Man has for centuries used the ancient symbol known as the Triskelion: three bent legs, each with a spur, joined at the thigh. The Triskelion does not appear to have an official definition - Government publications, currency, flags, the tourist authority and others all use different variants. Most, but not all, preserve rotational symmetry. Some run clockwise, others counter-clockwise. Some have the uppermost thigh at 12 o'clock, others at 11:30 or 10:00, etc. Some have the knee bent at 90 degrees, some at 60 degrees, some at closer to 120 degrees. Also the degree of ornamentation of the legwear and spur varies considerably.

The three legs relate directly to the Island's motto - Quocunque Jeceris Stabit, which translates to Whithersoever you throw it, it will stand. Interpretations of the motto often stress stability and robustness in the Manx character. Many schools on the Island have adapted the motto to promote perserverence and hard work.

Whether or not this answers your original question I doubt, but it is interesting to have all the information here for deliberation.

Also see the thread..

"Quocunque Jeceris Stabit"

 for bringing this to the Group's awareness Peter, with your wonderful photos as evidence.

Elizabeth   

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Your excellent research has enabled me to more understand the different views/aspects on this subject.

I therefore think we can all assume that the correct way for the three legs of Mann to point is that of this image, that is displayed in the Royal Chapel of St John's Church next to Tynwald Hill;

Would you agree that this is right Elizabeth?

Regards

Peter...

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Peter, yes I agree as I read somewhere (can't locate it right now) that the Isle of Man Government has officially adopted the clockwise adaption for its rendition in all official areas.

And this, on further research at http://flagspot.net/flags/im.html#des

The present rotation of the legs was restored by a royal proclamation in 1968.

Pascal Vagnat, 25 September 1998

Love this picture of your's of the Three legs outside the main entrance of Ronaldsway Airport (for our members... this is the Island's only and main airport near Castletown, in the south)..and turning the official way, clockwise.

THIS KNEELING BRONZE 3 LEGS OF MANN  IS SITUATED OUTSIDE THE MAIN ENTRANCE TO RONALDSWAY AIRPORT 

And another modern rendition, also clockwise...

THE ENTRANCE TO THE NEW NOBLES HOSPITAL - BRADDAN  AND THE BEAUTIFUL STAINLESS STEEL SCULPTURE OF THE THREE LEGS OF MANN

Elizabeth 

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... and certainly a different perspective on things about the 3 Legs of Mann..

I found this at Gari's Yahoo Group.. whose permission to use I acknowledge.

Yes, its a 3 legged dog !!  

For those who can't read it, the writing on the picture says:

Prince Toby Orry, the only real living representative of the Manx Coat of Arms.

The Manx Coat of Arms originated from this famous race of 3-legged dogs..... ( is this true???   )

When King Alexander III of Scotland arrived on the Island, he was so struck with this novel race, that he instituted the emblematic three legs as the Official Coat of Arms of Man.  (this is new to me.... have you heard of this Peter? )

Now I'm off to find some information about three-legged dogs..  I will report back if I find anything.

Elizabeth 

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They kneel to the left just like the Sicilian legs (from where they no doubt originated)

http://www.duesicilie.org/bannere-sic.html

So the legs outside the airport and on Laxey wheel (which kneel the same way as the Swastika) are quite definitely incorrect

Gari

If anybody has difficulty in seeing pictures, just open the source link and they should appear on refresh.  Pictures from your own harddrive will not appear - it has to be a webpage.

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The Romans used the Swastika on their banners and it used to be a good luck token in the USA - here a picture of it for those interested (I won't copy the picture though)

http://www.luckymojo.com/swastika.html

Gari

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The triskilion on the Italian flag is not the Sicilian banner which looks like this:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/it-sic.html

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The national flag of Man is a plain red field with the "trinacria" emblem in the centre. This is a banner of the arms which date back to the 13th century and are believed to be connected with Sicily, where a similar device was used in the Norman period.
Roy Stilling, 7 December 1996.

The present rotation of the legs was restored by a royal proclamation in 1968.
Pascal Vagnat, 25 September 1998.

'The triskelion (from the Greek "three-legged") is one of the oldest symbols known to mankind. The earliest representations of it were found in prehistoric rock carvings in northern Italy. It also appears on Greek vases and coins from the 6th and 8th centuries BC., and was revered by Norse and Sicilian peoples. The Sicilian version has a representation of the head of Medusa in the center. The Manx people believe that the triskelion came from Scandinavia. According to Norse mythology, the triskelion was a symbol of the movement of the sun through the heavens.'

Jarig Bakker, 27 April 2000

Read more at source: http://flagspot.net/flags/im.html

Interesting is that a "right" turning triskelion signified agression/war whilst a "left" (clockwise) turning flag signified peace:

The representation of the triskell must be dextrogyrous (turning to the right). A senstrogyrous (turning to the left) triskell would have a maleficent, or at least hostile meaning. Traditional Breton dances and processions always turn to the right. The war dances of the ancient Celts started by turning to the left to show hostility, and ended by turning to the right, as a sign of victory.

The triskell is close to the hevoud, another Celtic symbol and the Basque lauburu, and is probably of pre-Celtic origin (for instance on the cairn of Bru na Boinne in Ireland). 

Also from the above source

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Interesting discussion going on here.... and I see that my three-legged dog picture no longer shows.... perhaps just as well, as it is not a nice pic, and somehow I think it is an April fools joke......... or something as I haven't been able to find anything further on it...... but makes one wonder as to why someone would go to the expense of having a postcard made with this photo and also the writing depicted on it as written in my previous post.....

Regarding the pic of the 3 legs at the airport... like you say Peter, it depends which way one views it, and I guess a visitor coming out of the main entrance on arrival would see it the opposite way to the view which is in the pic. 

Elizabeth   

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I didn't highlight the answer above so here again

Clockwise (kneeling to the left) signifies peace (normal for IoM)

Anti-Clockwise signifies aggression (Laxey Wheel, Swastika etc)

So the triskelion at the front of the Laxey Wheel as well as that on several churches and public buildings is either incorrect or signifying aggression.

Probably, the architects responsible didn't realize that the direction made a difference.  That just isn't true - ask any specialist in heraldry.

Cheers from the wind and wet

Gari the

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Ok, well, obviously I missed the obvious!  Thanks, this will be fun reading.

A

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Hi Everyone - Just thought I would add this picture of the Maughold Parish Cross, it is a stained glass window in St. Peters Church in Onchan and depicts the cross in the grounds of Maughold Church well before it was a proper cemetery!

The below image again shows which way the three legs of Mann should be pointing.

Below is a similar image of Maughold Church taken in October 2004, the cross is now situated inside the Church to protect it from the weather.

Regards Peter

www.manxscenes.com

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In heraldry Peter, kneeling or inclined in a clockwise fashion is the norm.

Kneeling in an anti-clockwise direction signifies war or aggression (just see the Nazi swastika for instance!)

Thus, Laxey wheel and many churches are aggressive in the island and those kneeling towards the left are at peace

And all that's official too

Gari the

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I just saw that I answered all that long ago

Incidentally, the photo of the triskelion at Ronaldsway was taken from the back and thus anti-clockwise.  For visitors arriving by plane and leaving the terminal they appear clockwise.

Gari

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Hi Peter, thanks for your posting.... great pictures too... nice to see the group alive again....

Slane lhiats

Elizabeth

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