I am wondering WHY it was ok with so many churches to accept the change that the Roman Catholic church made regarding the Sabbath day worship. They changed the 7th day to the first day to keep holy.
Now, Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it, so why is it ok to not follow the 4th commandment of God, when God says if you love me, you will keep my commandments.
I have been going to a bible prophesy seminar at a 7th day adventist church for the past month, and this Sunday worship at most churches does not feel right to me anymore. It was the Pagans that worshipped the sun god on Sunday, and this is where it came from.
From what I understand, tradition took over, and most worship now on Sunday, including myself, but it feels wrong since Jesus put this day of worship into the 10 commandments. I don't know what I am going to do about it. It is tormenting me to a degree. I don't think man should go above the bible to make this change.
This may sound odd but Sunday always seemed like the 7th day of the week to me. I guess it is because Monday is the 1st day back to school or work for most. Then there is the old blue laws where stores are closed on Sunday. That makes Saturday a shopping day for working people.
I find it confusing too when I think about keeping the sabbath holy. I cannot do nothing when I have living beings to care for. I don't go out to work, but I do go to a few church pantries that fall on the sabbath, and, the church with the seminar is one of them.
Here's the link to an article of a bible study from my church:
Thank you Martha, it is very interesting. I am going to go to sleep now, and finish reading tomorrow. I got pretty far though. It keeps getting so interesting but my eyes are burning now.
You're welcome, Belle. I'm glad I could help.
First let's look at the 7th day adventist church teachings....
There are many differences between SDA doctrine and Christianity.
The primary one is that they reject the idea that salvation is by grace alone through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. SDA doctrine is that His death and shed blood only paid part of the price. We have to keep the Old Testament law to finish the work. If you fail to keep the law you are not saved. In fact only as you keep the law and are seen to be righteous then is your sin gradually blotted out.
(The Bible teaches us "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:7-9)
The SDA also hold to the blasphemous doctrine that Satan plays a role in our salvation. Jesus has taken our sins but God has not forgotten them. The sins will be placed on Satan who will bear them away. THEN we will be free of them.
(The Bible tells us that the LORD hath laid on him (Jesus) the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:6 and in the NT Peter tells us: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: I Pet 2
Another key false doctrine is that we cannot know for sure that we are saved. We can only know it for sure when we have died. (Paul said: I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved,.." and ". . Christ."In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Eph 1 13 and "Nevertheless the foundation standeth sure, The Lord
Lord knoweth them that are His" II Tim 2:17)
By this we can determine that the SDA preaches another gospel and therefore is to be rejected by true Christians. (ITim 1:3-4 " I besought thee. . that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. and That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; )
Just one more comment. One of the ways I've learnd to KNOW when the message I'm posting is truth and NEEDED is when Satan opposes the posting of it... In trying to get this post up it has taken me almost 49 minutes!!! It wasn't th e normal care2 garbage of things disappearing when you try to post it or that such...
No, I couldn't even get things to copy or paste right. several times the scripture pastes disappeared or came out something entirely different!!
Satan did NOT want this posted. He cannot stand when his false doctrines are refutd by the word.
When we find this much false doctrine in a denomination's teachings we should throw dust on it and get out of town!!! But I'll still go on about this Sabbath teaching. It is a bondage to confuse and worry honest children of God!!
Let’s consider the concept of Shadow and Reality…
The OT practices and laws were a ‘shadow’ of the reality that came in Christ. Depending on where one stands their shadow can be an accurate reflection or it can be warped and twisted.
For that reason we don’t look at the “Shadow” (in this case the old testament laws and practices.) We look at the reality that is in Christ. The importance of the Shadow is indeed diminished in the face of reality.
In some cases you could look at MY shadow and think I was slim and svelte, but if you saw the reality-ME, in the flesh-you would understand the error of the shadow. If you didn’t have ME standing there talking with you, well then the shadow would be your best option. But you cannot prefer the SHADOW over the REALITY. The same goes for Christ and the 'shadows' in the Old Testament laws and practices.
If we say we aren’t bound to observe the ‘sabbath’ (on Saturday) we might also ask why aren’t we bound to make the sacrifices of sheep and goats. If one was fulfilled in Christ so was the other. Why aren’t we going in and slitting the throats of Sheep and Goats on Saturday?
We cannot pick and choose to observe some of the old laws and not others… When Christ says he ‘fulfilled the Law” he did just that. ALL of the Law was fulfilled. It was finished. Now we live under the law of grace.
Paul said: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6)
If you allow yourself to be bound by these false teachers who insist that we are to ‘keep the Sabbath’ then you are bound by the WHOLE law. And if that is true, then Paul tells us: 4” Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen
from grace.” Gal. 5:4
Donna, you and I have spoken many times of the dangers of listening to every ‘ prophet and teacher’ and religious doctrine we run across. You have gronw in the Lord in the congregation yu have been attending. This 7th day group is an instrument of Satan to draw you away. Get out of it RIGHT NOW
This post was modified from its original form on 30 Nov, 11:16
Thank you Vondi,
I was aware of the idea that if we were to follow one law, then we are bound by the law, BUT, I was also thinking that we are still suppose to follow the 10 commendments. or are we? It is in the 10 commandments.
According to their paper work, they say we are saved by Grace through faith. I haven't heard that Satan is playing a part in our salvation. I don't think I would forget that.
One thing that stuck in my mind was that there are no 7 years of tribulation, but there will be a second coming of Christ, and that when we died, our spirit alone goes back to God, but the body rests in the grave waiting for the second coming, and that is when the dead in Christ shall rise, and they will be changed into the new body.
They ALL say that Christ blesses those that keep his Sabbath holy, and they said it was changed by a Constantine. They said the Catholic church had no right to change the Sabbath to Sunday. They also said that one of the beasts is the Roman Catholic church.
I am not going tonight. OH, I don't recall us having to follow the old testament law to be saved. I mean everyone. I'll reread this again, and thanks. That Saturday thing is upsetting me.
Sorry I said this backwards or something: "If we say we aren’t bound to observe the ‘sabbath’ (on Saturday) we might also ask why aren’t we bound to make the sacrifices of sheep and goats".
It should read: "If we say we are bound to observe the ‘sabbath’ (on Saturday) we might also ask why aren’t we bound to make the sacrifices of sheep and goats."
Jesus said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matt 22:37-40
Now how does that relate to obeying the ‘letter of the law’? (that is 'keeping the sabbath in particular.) He said. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
What does that mean? Obviously it indicates that all of the Law—including the ten commandments—is connected to these two: Loving the Lord with every fiber of our being and our neighbor as our self. And not just 'connected to' but dependent on the.
When we love the Lord with every fiber of our being, we will worship Him in Spirit and in truth-- ALL of the TIME, EVERY WHERE we go. Jesus told the woman at the well in John 4 that the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The Jews had to go to the temple to worship. They had to go on the Sabbath. They had to observe the Sabbath on Saturday. There was no other way laid out to worship. It was necessary to meet with the priests and make their sacrifices.
But now HE is our sacrifice, our priest, our altar.
Heb. 10 8 - he (Christ) said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he (Christ), Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.. . .But this man (Jesus), after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;. . . For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Now we don’t have to go to ‘Sabbath’ gatherings, we can worship in spirit and truth. Our high priest lives and works within us!! 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;And having an high priest over the house of God; [We can] draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering;
I am blessed just studying on this!!! How great is our Salvation!
Why don’t we have to observe the old Sabbath? Because Jesus is our High Priest. We don’t have to go to a temple to ‘meet with Him’ as the Jews did. We go to church services to meet with the other members of the body. We meet with Christ every single day any time we need to communicate with Him. He’s only a breath or heart beat away!
For us He entered into the holiest place--heaven itself! Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; (Heb. 9:24)
Christ didn’t go into the temple; He went straight into heaven and we are told he sits there on the right hand of God making intercession for us!!! Why should we go back to being bound by the Old Law when we have such Glory surrounding us.
When ever we find our selves confused, worried, questioning, upset about some doctrine we can pretty well depend on the fact that the doctrine is NOT of God. The leading of God makes us feel condemned (guilty, if you like) but it never makes us confused or worried or anxious.
Well, I feel better now. sort of. What you say is all true if God said we do not have to follow the 10 commandments. I don't quite get the fact that the first 2 commandments are the most important, and if we follow them, then we have covered the rest. Of course if we love out neighbor as ourselves, we will not steal from them, or lie to them, BUT, how does these actually relate to the 4th commandment about keeping the sabbath day holy???
What makes me suspicous to a degree is the emphases put on this one particular thing about Saturday. I told them that I always think of the seventh day as Sunday, especially since Monday always felt like the first day. It is the first day back to work, and also the first day back to school. They discussed this stuff in my church a little. Actually, the Pastor asked for opinions about it, and most people said they felt they could work ANY 6 days, and rest on the 7th, OR keep it holy. I thought about that, and then thought these are just opinions, but what counts is what Jesus had to say about it.
Are the 10 commandments considered the Mosaic law? I mean since Moses brought them down to the people on tablets.
When Jesus said he came to not abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. This is what would be said to me if I challenged this. Oh I ask a few questions here and there, but I tread softly as I am a guest in their house.
This is going to end with one day a week in December.
I started to mention that I was uncomfortable with so much emphases on Sabbath, as I was uncomfortable and suspicious about why JW's are so bent out of shape about God's name not being in some bibles. These obcessions make me wonder about things.
OHHHHHHHH, something else.... When the JW's come to the door, they always bring up the comma's in the bible. The one where Jesus said to the thief "I tell you today that you will be with me in Paradise. NOW......
The Pastor said back in those days they left out the commas. He said it HAS to mean that Jesus was telling him this stuff TODAY, that it could not have meant that he will be with him in paradise today since Jesus would not be in Paradise today. He still had to make the trip to Hell. WHICH leads me to something else. .......
He said that when we die, we sleep in grave, spirit goes back to God, but we are not moving about up there. He said we are waiting for Jesus to return for us. Also, we PERISH since the wages of sin is death, IF, we are not saved. The eternal torment that is suppose to go forever and ever is wrong. This is what the Pastor said.
Also he said once saved, always saved is wrong. Jesus mentioned blotting someones name out of the book of life.... I actually would not put my faith in the once saved doctrine anyway, as that would be a dangerous practice.
I was just reading this.
It should read: "If we say we are bound to observe the ‘sabbath’ (on Saturday) we might also ask why aren’t we bound to make the sacrifices of sheep and goats."
I think an answer might be given to me that the killing of goats and sheep are not a part of the 10 commandments.
Does the Jewish days (for instance their Monday being our Sunday) pertain to Gentiles? Even though we are to keep the Sabbath Holy some people have no choice but to work on that day. Myself included when I was working.
I've never heard about The Jewish day being Monday. I always heard it was Saturday. Anyway, regarding having no choice about working on the Sabbath, you DO. I attend a non-denominational church that has their services on Saturdays and none of the us work on that day because as the 4th Commandment says,
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Of course, there might be a conflict with the boss about it to the point of losing your job, but if we put all your trust in God, He WILL come through for you. Also, we observe the Sabbath from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, like in the Hebrew calendar, instead of midnight to midnight, the way the Julian calendar has it.
Martha, I thought it was Saturday too but I misread what Donna wrote so that's why I said Monday. I was curious about that. God has always taken care of me even though I was obligated to work on Sunday most weeks. My bills won't wait unfortunately.
Here's another link:
The ten commandments are often referred to as the Mosaic law…They were the first of the laws given to the Israelites. Many were added afterward. Some were from the Lord others were made up by the scribes and other congregational leaders. Jesus referred to this in Matthew the 23 chapter when he said. The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
He was there referring to the ‘laws’ the scribes and Pharisees, the leaders of the temple, had composed to suit their own uses.
Donna asked how the fourth commandment was fulfilled in the two greatest that Jesus repeated: Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart soul and mind and thy neighbor as thyself. The fourth commandment is the one about Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...The Sabbath was designed as a day of worship and a time to commune with God.
If we Love God with all of our being. We will keep the Sabbath every day because our sinning is finished, we have spiritual rest constantly. We have daily communion with Him. We need not come into a temple to worship and offer sacrifices. We have offered to Christ the 'sacrifice' of our entire life. We are continually offering the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name(Heb. 13:15) Our very life for Christ has become a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, II Cor 2:14
Now as far as the rest goes: As I said before, Jesus told us He came to fulfill the Law
If he did that then WHY are we bound by the old laws? We eat all kinds of meat including pork. The animals are butchered in slaughter houses that are far from the Jewish laws of handling meat. Pigs are butchered with the same utensils used for butchering sheep and cattle… Of course they are washed between uses, but according to Jewish law a separate instrument and utensil had to be used for each animal.
We make all kinds of stews and gravy, ignoring the Jewish laws about cooking. The one that comes to mind immediately is that regarding cooking the kid in the mother’s milk. A BIG no-no. But we do it all the time. Ever eaten beef stroganoff? Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk. Exo. 34:26 Or poured gravy all over your ham and potatoes? Or over your steak and mashed potatoes?
We get dressed in the morning and in winter especially might wear linen or cotton pants or skirt, a silk blouse and a wool sweater over top. We have sweaters and shirts that are 50% wool and 50% something else. And NONE of our clothes have fringes on all four sides. That was not acceptable by Jewish law. 11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself. Deut 22:11-12
I could go on… There are multitudes of Old Testament Laws that no one follows today. And yet, the JW choose this one about the Sabbath to emphasize and require that their followers adhere to. Why is it so absolutely necessary that ONE be followed and all the rest ignored? If we would ask I feel fairly sure that they would respond that Jesus fulfilled them. And that is true; but Jesus didn’t say, “I’m fulfilling all the Law except this one about the Sabbath.” He said he had come to fulfill the Law. Period. Paul taught that the Old Law was done away with in Christ. 18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Heb. 7:18-19 Of course, I guess they would reject the words of Paul, since they don’t line up with the JW teaching on the Sabbath.
However my guide through all this is that I am a follower of Jesus. It is my goal to do everything according the pattern set forth by Him. We find many placed in the record of His life where he disregarded the Sabbath and in a couple places actually countered it. Matthew 12:1; Luke 6:1-11; Luke 13; John 5:15-17; John 9:14. We do find places where he went into the temple on the Sabbath, but his purpose was to teach. ( Luke 13:10) He offered no sacrifices
Later on we find that the early church didn’t observe any day particularly but And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
It is evident that they were not adhering to the old Sabbath law. (In fact they were probably not able to worship too easily in the temple because they were Christians and the Jews controlled the temple.)
We find at least one account where the early Christians actually had worship service on the First Day of the Week. And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Acts 20:6-7 Paul held church on Monday.
Finally, Vicky asked if Law and teaching pertained just to the Jews? A resounding YES! In fact Peter and Paul discussed this very thing when the Jewish Christians were trying to force the Gentile believers to be circumcised. The apostle Peter and the others sent word saying: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. ( Acts 15:28) They said that the LAW didn’t apply to the Gentile believers.
And even the Jews were not so subject to the Law since the disciple taught repeatedly that if they were striving to be justified by the Law the Salvation was worthless. 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal. 2:16
So let's look at the end of the confusion:
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28 How much more clear does it get than this?
Binding the members of God's body to observe the Sabbath on Saturday IS a deed of the Law, isn't it?
Instead we see these churches laying heavy burdens on their people that are not necessary.
Rejoice my friends! We are not bound by these old laws! We have freedom in Christ! We have direct access to the throne of grace and we bypass priests and all the rigamarole of the old temple and even that of modern churches who proscribe days and candles and worship. We are fully saved by the grace of Christ! Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God Rom 5:1-2
Amen and Amen!
Let me clarify what I said about the "Mosaic Law." The way I said it might make some believe that it is ONLY the Ten Commandments. Acutally, It was/is all the laws (beginning with the Ten Commandments) that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. It includes many rules of religious observance given in the first five books of the Old Testament (in Judaism these books are called the Torah)
That does away with Donna's thought that the preacher would say about the killing of sheep and goats: well that isn't in the Ten commandments. the Jews view ALL of the Torah as being required by God. HOWEVER that was the way given by GOD for men to have their sins forgiven.
Again, we cannot pick and choose what we are going to require and what we are not.
Thanks for clarifying that Vondi. A friend of mine refuses to eat pork because it is forbidden. I told him that pertained to the Jews in the Old Testament and in fact the Bible states this:
Leviticus chapter 11 lists the dietary restrictions God gave to the nation of Israel. The dietary laws included prohibitions against eating pork, shrimp, shellfish and many types of seafood, most insects, scavenger birds, and various other animals. The dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than the Israelites. The purpose of the food laws was to make the Israelites distinct from all other nations. After this purpose had ended, Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19). God gave the apostle Peter a vision in which He declared that formerly unclean animals could be eaten: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean” (Acts 10:15). When Jesus died on the cross, He fulfilled the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15). This includes the laws regarding clean and unclean foods.
Romans 14:1-23 teaches us that not everyone is mature enough in the faith to accept the fact that all foods are clean. As a result, if we are with someone who would be offended by our eating “unclean” food, we should give up our right to do so as to not offend the other person. We have the right to eat whatever we want, but we do not have the right to offend other people, even if they are wrong. For the Christian in this age, though, we have freedom to eat whatever we wish as long as it does not cause someone else to stumble in his/her faith.
In the New Covenant of grace, the Bible is far more concerned with how much we eat than what we eat. Physical appetites are an analogy of our ability to control ourselves. If we are unable to control our eating habits, we are probably also unable to control other habits such as those of the mind (lust, covetousness, unrighteous hatred/anger) and unable to keep our mouths from gossip or strife. We are not to let our appetites control us; rather, we are to control them (Deuteronomy 21:20; Proverbs 23:2; 2 Peter 1:5-7; 2 Timothy 3:1-9; 2 Corinthians 10:5).
God's Food Laws
We believe that those meats that are designated unclean by God in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 are not to be eaten.
Scripture reveals that God created the vast array of animal life that inhabits our planet and further states that some animals were created for the specific purpose of providing food for mankind (1 Timothy 4:3). Although a Christian is not obligated to eat any meats, vegetarianism in its various forms, if practiced as a matter of religious requirement, is considered to be a spiritual weakness (Romans 14:2), and trying to impose that as a teaching to others is listed as a "doctrine of demons" (1 Timothy 4:1-3).
There is no clear statement as to when God first revealed the difference between those animals that are designated "clean" in Scripture and those that are not. The absence of a clear command on this matter in the first few chapters of Genesis should not be taken as proof that no instruction was given in this regard at the beginning of human history.
There are few clear commands in the early pages of the Bible, but the examples that are recorded reveal that standards of right and wrong were clearly understood. For example, there is no clear command against murder before Cain killed his brother Abel, but no one would conclude that murder was therefore acceptable before this point.
The book of Genesis can be described as a book of beginnings. It was written or compiled by Moses to provide a historical record of what took place, not to list specific laws. Readers shouldn't assume, based on absence from the beginning of Genesis, that any law not mentioned was not in existence from the beginning.
The first statement in Scripture concerning "clean" and "unclean" animals is found in Genesis 7:2, where Noah is commanded to take seven (or, more likely, seven pairs ) of each kind of clean animal and only one pair of each kind of unclean animal.
When God told Noah to build a giant ark, He gave explicit instructions on its size, composition and design, yet Scripture records that God saw no need to instruct Noah about which creatures were clean and which were unclean. God's instruction and Noah's response clearly indicate that Noah already understood which creatures were clean and which were not.
At the conclusion of the great Flood, God told Noah: "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs" (Genesis 9:3). This did not mean, however, that every single animal was fit for human consumption. Many creatures by their very nature are dangerous, poisonous and place our health at risk.
The point being made here was that, even though there were few men left alive, and large and dangerous animals had been preserved, Noah and his family had no need to fear these animals. Animals, the verse makes clear, were to be for man's benefit. As a whole, they were given into man's control in the same way the green plants were given.
Note the parallel. Some green plants are suitable for food, some are suitable for building materials, some are for beautification and enjoyment,
Note the parallel. Some green plants are suitable for food, some are suitable for building materials, some are for beautification and enjoyment, and some are poisonous and can sicken and bring death when ingested. In the same way, some animals are useful for providing food while others provide fibers for clothing, strength for working the land or protection from dangers. And like poisonous plants, some animals are not intended to be eaten.
Whenever animals are mentioned in Scripture as a food source or in connection with sacrifice before Israel received the Old Covenant at Mount Sinai, they are invariably animals designated as clean (Genesis 15:9—cow, goat, sheep, dove, pigeon; Genesis 22:13—sheep; Exodus 12:5—sheep or goat). The law of clean and unclean meats clearly predates the Old Covenant, regardless of what role they may have played within that covenant.
When the Levitical system was established, it was necessary to codify a number of matters that had already been in effect for some time. Two sections of Scripture, Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14:3-21
When the Levitical system was established, it was necessary to codify a number of matters that had already been in effect for some time. Two sections of Scripture, Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14:3-21, codify which creatures are set apart as suitable for food and which are not. The term used to designate those animals whose flesh is acceptable for food is clean, while the term used for those that are not suitable for food is unclean. It is important that we "distinguish between the unclean and the clean" (Leviticus 11:47; compare Ezekiel 22:26; 44:23).
Scripture does not reveal exactly why God designated certain animal flesh as suitable for food while other flesh is not acceptable. There could be health reasons or symbolic reasons or, as there seems to be, both. God certainly knows why and how He created each animal. Yet even if God's determinations in this matter were purely just a test of obedience, He, as the Creator of all life, has full rights to make such decisions.
Various passages in the New Testament show that the laws of clean and unclean meats were still being observed by Jesus Christ and His followers. As eager as the religious leaders of Jesus' day were to accuse Him of violat
Various passages in the New Testament show that the laws of clean and unclean meats were still being observed by Jesus Christ and His followers. As eager as the religious leaders of Jesus' day were to accuse Him of violating their interpretations of religious law, there is no record that they ever confronted Him about His teachings or practices on this matter. Had He advocated eating unclean meats, it would have been an ideal way to besmirch His reputation with the masses, since they would have been appalled at such an idea.
Jesus' statement in an oft-misquoted passage in Mark 7:19 would have outraged the religious leaders had they interpreted it the way many people do today. His reference to purifying all foods here is often thought to refer to Him declaring all meat clean. But His statement actually refers to all foods being purged out of the body through bodily elimination. This has nothing to do with whether meats are considered clean or unclean.
Acts 10 is another commonly misunderstood passage that actually powerfully illustrates the early New Testament Church's understanding about clean and unclean meats—although this is not the primary purpose behind the vision described here.
The apostle Peter received a vision from God that instructed him to take the gospel message to gentiles (non-Israelites). During this vision, Peter three times refused to partake of the unclean animals shown him and remained puzzled about the meaning of the vision until God revealed that it was actually about people and not really about clean and unclean animals. It was revealed to Peter that no human being should be considered "common or unclean" (verses 28-29).
This chapter ends with the Holy Spirit being given to the household of the gentile Cornelius as proof that God's calling to repentance and salvation was now going to people in all nations (verses 44-48; see also Acts 11:1-18
This chapter ends with the Holy Spirit being given to the household of the gentile Cornelius as proof that God's calling to repentance and salvation was now going to people in all nations (verses 44-48; see also Acts 11:1-18). Although this section of Scripture has been used to claim permission to eat unclean animals, it clearly indicates the opposite. The event here took place several years into the history of the New Testament Church, yet Peter rejected the idea of eating unclean meat, even going so far as protesting that he had "never eaten anything that is common or unclean" (verse 14).
Paul, in a passage cited earlier, wrote of creatures "which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth" and described these creatures as "sanctified by the word of God and prayer" (1 Timothy 4:3, 5).
The word used to describe these creatures, sanctified, means "set apart," and it carries the dual connotation of being set apart from something as well as for something. The only animals set apart by the Word of God, the Bible, are those listed in it as clean. They have been set apart from all other animals and for man's nourishment. The flesh of those creatures designated as suitable for food is to be received thankfully by those who believe and know the truth. Animal flesh designated as unclean is unfit for human consumption and should not be eaten.
God gave other important food laws as well. He declares as a perpetual statute that His people eat neither fat nor blood (Leviticus 3:17
God gave other important food laws as well. He declares as a perpetual statute that His people eat neither fat nor blood (Leviticus 3:17; 7:22-26; 17:10-14; 19:26; Deuteronomy 12:16, 23-25; 15:23; 1 Samuel 14:33-34; Ezekiel 33:25). The forbidden fat referred to is that of mammals, not birds, and it is the covering fat that could be removed rather than the fat marbled in the meat.
The blood restriction applies to mammals and birds. The requirement that blood be drained from any meat before eating it was even communicated by the New Testament apostles to gentile converts accustomed formerly to eating strangled animals not drained of blood (Acts 15:19-20, 28-29). As God says in Deuteronomy 12:25, "You shall not eat it, that it may go well with you and your children after you, when you do what is right in the sight of the Lord."
As I posted, there were laws for the Jews in the Old Testament concerning what they could and could not eat. However the food laws were abolished after God's purpose of making Israel distinct. This is what the New Testament says (as posted in my previous post):
The dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than the Israelites. The purpose of the food laws was to make the Israelites distinct from all other nations. After this purpose had ended, Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19). God gave the apostle Peter a vision in which He declared that formerly unclean animals could be eaten: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean” (Acts 10:15). When Jesus died on the cross, He fulfilled the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15). This includes the laws regarding clean and unclean foods.
Thank you everyone, I think I can say that I understand all this law verses faith stuff. I feel better now.
God's dietary food laws, we know that they're outlined in Leviticus chapter 11 and Deuteronomy 14. And in those instructions many come up with an interesting idea. They think that those food laws are for Jews only. Well, are they? Are the food laws given by God for Jews only?
Well, that's an important question that we need to think about. Now we did address that in the program and showed how the New Testament church—especially through Peter's vision—certainly kept those dietary food laws. But many discount that and say, "Well, if you're a Jew you should do it, but if you're not, you have to ignore it because of Christ's sacrifice."
Well, is there a place that we can go to for more information that gives us an indication whether or not those laws were really just for the Jews or it's something that we better be concerned about as well?
Well you might be surprised to find where you can find information, where you can find that indication that's not just for Jews, but for everyone. And you know where you can find that? All the way back at the beginning of the Bible in the story that I'm sure you're familiar with. It's the story of Noah.
In the story of Noah—it's all the way back, Genesis chapter 6 where God says Noah found grace in His sight, He's going to destroy civilization, and He's going to use Noah. We know the story. He builds an ark and He's supposed to take animals into that ark. Now, what animals did He take into the ark? Well, we know that he took at least two kinds—the only two kinds there were—clean and unclean. How do we know that? Well in verse 2 of chapter 7, here's God's instructions, He says to Noah, "You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and it's female, two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female" (Genesis 7:2).
So what did we find? We find seven pairs of clean animals, two pairs of unclean animals. In fact, most have a misconception that he just took the animals two by two and they were all the same. But they're not. He took more clean animals than unclean animals. We find a little bit later in verse 9, two by two they went into the ark (Genesis 7:9).
Now, how did Noah know the difference between these things? You see, think about the timing of the story of Noah. Were there a Jewish people at this time? There wasn't. This is long before the Jewish people, long before Israel, long before Abraham. So here we are with the designation of clean and unclean animals long before the Old Covenant, long before the Abrahamic Covenant. And so you cannot discount God's dietary food laws and say, well, that's an Old Covenant thing, because obviously this distinction existed long before the Jewish people. This distinction was something that was right there from creation. And so no one knew the difference because God had already instructed him. He was already keeping God's dietary food laws so he understood.
In fact when you look through Genesis 6, Genesis 7 God doesn't tell him what the differences are between these different animals. He already knew it. He already knew it. And so that important distinction for Noah was obvious. And it should be obvious for us as well that God's dietary food laws, they are not for Jews only. They are for all mankind because they help us to realize an important distinction that in our lives we have to make a distinction between what is holy, or clean, and what's common, or unclean.
Popular ideas about distinctions
Since many people enjoy eating pork (ham, bacon, sausage, etc.) and experience no immediate adverse effects, some have looked for scientific reasons that God may have had in mind when He told the ancient Israelites not to eat pork (Leviticus 11:7; Deuteronomy 14:8). One theory is that God forbade the eating of pork so that the Israelites would not catch certain diseases, such as trichinosis, that pigs can carry. After all, the Israelites did not own refrigerators, and researchers had not yet warned people to thoroughly cook pork to kill any potential disease-carrying organisms.
Since modern research has apparently solved these problems of disease, and we rarely hear of parasites passing to people through under-cooked meat, many people assume eating pork is now acceptable to God. Since many people eat pork all their lives and live to a ripe old age, the average person—if he thinks about it at all—assumes eating pork has little or no effect on health or longevity.
Research has convinced some doctors and nutritionists, however, to recommend that some of their patients avoid pork and shellfish (another category of biblically unclean food) in their diets; they understand that some people do not properly digest these meats. So some will acknowledge that avoidance of certain meats makes sense for people with particular health problems, but not as a rule for everyone.
Most religious teachers have adopted a perspective that parallels this scientific reasoning. Theologians have assumed that the laws of clean and unclean meats originated under the Old Covenant with ancient Israel and came to an end with the establishment of the New Covenant. Thus they believe many laws from the Old Testament are no longer applicable to Christians.
Many think Paul confirmed this approach when he said, "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean" (Romans 14:14).
This reasoning places God in the role of master physician in the Old Testament and Jesus Christ in the role of liberator from God's law in the New Testament. If we assume that God was simply looking out for the health of the ancient Israelites, the Bible's lists of clean and unclean animals become only primitive health issues for which modern, enlightened, liberated mankind no longer has need. The popular reasoning is that Christ understood this and gave His followers the freedom to decide for themselves in such matters. Some believe God will honor any decision we make for ourselves regarding such things.
This popular view is taught by most churches. But the crucial question remains: Does it accurately reflect biblical teaching?
God's view is different
God made mankind in His own image (Genesis 1:26-27). In doing so He gave men and women the ability to reason. Though a wonderful gift, our thinking ability is not infallible. When ancient Israel's reasoning went awry, God said, "Come now, and let us reason together" (Isaiah 1:18).
But Scripture also records God telling us: "'My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,' says the LORD. 'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).
So God, not man, is the authority on our conduct (Proverbs 14:12), including deciding that of what foods we may or may not eat.
In addition, the great prophet Jeremiah candidly admitted, "O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps" (Jeremiah 10:23).
In light of these Bible verses, we need to carefully examine the matter of clean and unclean meats. We need to be sure we understand God's perspective instead of relying exclusively on our own reasoning.
The account in Genesis about Noah shows that the distinction between clean and unclean animals existed early in history, long before God ratified His covenant with Israel. Thus the Bible itself clearly shows that the popular idea that the cleanness and uncleanness of animals originated in the Old Covenant is incorrect. Since these distinctions existed long before the Israelite sacrificial system and Levitical priesthood, it does not follow that they would cease with a change in the sacrificial system or the priesthood. As we will see, the Bible teaches that the distinction between clean and unclean has never been rescinded and that the distinction continues to exist for good reasons.
Another flaw in some people's understanding is that God's law did not exist until the specific time of its first mention in the Bible. This misconception leads to the equally flawed belief that the only laws applicable to New Covenant Christians are those restated in the New Testament after Christ's crucifixion. Jesus Himself dismissed this reasoning as false (Matthew 5:17-19). Although such assumptions about when God's law came into effect lack biblical proof, they do raise an important issue for us to consider—the continuity of God's law.
The nature of God's law
Some people reason that God allowed Adam and Eve to eat any animal but changed the rules for Noah. Or they argue that Noah could eat any kind of animal flesh because God had revealed no specific instructions that expressly forbade him from doing so.
Such reasoning is inherently flawed. It overlooks the permanent nature of the spiritual principles that form the basis for the instruction God has given to mankind.
God bases His instructions to people on spiritual principles that have always existed. Just as God is eternal (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalm 90:2), so are the principles that reflect His eternal character and nature (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8). God's law is based on His unchanging character, not dependent on events and attitudes prevalent in human history.
The Bible, from beginning to end, is a book about law. However, it is not written as a purely legal book. The Hebrew word for law ( torah ) encompasses direction and instruction, concepts much broader than a mere legal code. God's law existed before the Bible was written down. As Paul noted, "the law is spiritual" (Romans 7:14).
The Bible is a book about relationships —specifically how people in the past related to God and, based on their experiences, how we should relate to Him. God's law—His direction and instruction for people&mdashrovides the guidelines for developing a relationship with Him that leads to eternal life (John 17:
Through time, as our relationship with God develops, we learn more about what He expects of us—the thoughts and actions acceptable under His law—and begin thinking and doing those things (Matthew 7:21; John 14:15; Revelation 14:12).
When we understand the spiritual principles that stand as the basis for God's law, we don't look for loopholes in His law to avoid doing what He commands. When we enjoy a loving relationship with Him, we keep His commandments (1 John 5:2). As the apostle John tells us: "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome" (verse 3). All God's commandments exist for our benefit.
Did something in the law change?
Let's note an additional consideration regarding the nature of God's law. Some will argue that all of God's law is temporary because of obvious changes since Old Testament times concerning the laws of sacrifice and circumcision. This argument is rooted in confusion over how these changes came about.
The Bible notes that some of this confusion stems from differences in ministries or administrations. Paul, who wrote of God's "spiritual" law (Romans 7:14), also wrote of "differences of administrations, but the same Lord" (1 Corinthians 12:5, King James Version). Paul also wrote of the differences between the Old Covenant ministry, or administration, compared with that of the New (2 Corinthians 3).
Administrative changes, however, are not to be confused with God's law itself, which Jesus clearly said continues to exist and apply today (Matthew 5:18). God has allowed and, in some cases, directed adjustments in administrative applications of God's law. In every instance Scripture spells out such administrative changes. We find no administrative change in the New Testament regarding clean and unclean meats.
I'm going to close this thread. I think we have already discussed that JESUS fulfilled the Law of the OT. We are no longer under the Law but under grace. The OT Laws were designed to point men to their need for a Savior.
When Jesus came he WAS that savior. He IS our rest.
We worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. He dwells within us and we commune with him every day.
Although we gather together for fellowship with one another, it is not necessary to gather to worship God. He is within us.
We don't need to come to have a priest minister the things of God to us. Jesus is our high priest. His Holy Spirit leads us into all truth.
Paul spoke to the Galatians of his concern for those who were trying to be Christians and yet hold themselves and others to the OT laws saying But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
I believe that is about as clear as it can be made. If anyone has been deceived by this discussion, I'm sorry. Don't become entangled again in the yokes of bondage.
I forgot the scriptural reference I just used Galatians 4:9-11