Our very own U.K. `survival` thread July 09, 2007 5:23 AM
Our very own U.K. `survival` thread:
Please jump in here folks & ADD lots of ideas of your own. The more ideas we`ve got & the better chance we`ve got. This thread is for EVERYONE`s benefit, whilst survival affects each & every one of us, & our families & friends.
Below, some of the main dangers we are facing:
1. Climate event
3. Terrorist attack
4. (potential) pandemic - not necessarily bird flu, whilst TB & others pose equal, if not greater threats.
5. Financial crash
What can we do?
Absolutely nothing insofaras stopping any of the above - but LOTS insofaras `preparing`
What NOT to do
Panic. Only if we are not prepared will we panic.
What are the basic preparations we should consider making?
4. Other essentials
5. Warmth & safety
The above 5 things may appear irrelevant right now, but would make a heck of a difference later to your very survival.
Terrorist attack or climate event - shops close and/or electirc/gas goes off - no power.
Pandemic of some sort - restricted to staying home.
Stock up (in advance) on TINNED, packet food that needs NO cooking - bonus if you have portable gaz camping cooker to heat food up. Downside being the obvious `danger` from using such equipment indoors.
Many tinned food stuffs have several years shelf life. Items such as corned beef & tuna fish are particularly good, as also is tinned vegetables, baked beans, spagetti & packet cereals. We also need SUGAR in our diet & the choices are many. These are only basic ideas.
Pandemic - illness caused lack of sufficient manpower to keep it running.
Climate event - caused a breakdown
Depending on where you live, & the scenario, would influence on what WATER is available. For example, if you live in the countryside near a river or stream, then water could be collected & sterilised provided you are not confined to your home, or its not a drought scenario.
I`ve therefore tried to cover ALL possible scenarios by washing out & saving all 2,3,4 litre plastic bottles. If things look like getting any worse they can be quickly sterilised with milton, before filling with drinking water. I`ve got one supply already filled, & I empty & refill those every few months. I`ve also got a huge supply of empties already sterilised should a quick fill become necessary.
I keep in mind what happened last summer in Gaza, & how Israel targeted their utilities like water & power. Based on that I assume, if Iran gets hit, then the first thing terrorists in UK would target would be our utilities.
Water stores fine for 6 months, but do NOT stand the bottles on concrete floors.
Hygiene - at a push I assume we could afford not to `wash` if we really needed to conserve water for drinking. However, there is a difference between not showering, as against the greater concern of `personal hygiene` Therefore, unless someone comes up with a better idea than JOHNSONS NAPPY WIPES - that`s my only recommendation, lol.
Essential hand washing again is a consideration - any available water (even rainwater) to which DISINFECTANT has been added might need to suffice in an emergency.
So what happens if the power goes down & its the middle of winter ?
One way round it, which I did read about some time ago, was this: invest in a TENT !
Might sound crazy, but the small space inside a tent is more likely to be warm than what your living room or bedroom would be without heating.
Shift a few pieces of furniture, put up your tent, throw in every duvet, sleeping bag, blanket you`ve got & dive in & sit it out. Might be boring, but if you`ve got no power, then without tv, pc, lights etc, you are going to be bored anyway, so its better to be WARM & bored, rather than to wander round in the cold & freeze.
Of course, it all depends what the scenario is ! We could survive this for a couple of weeks if there was a pandemic, but not recommended if our house suffered a flood LOL ! So its only a limited suggestion.
I quite like the last two sites. One thing I learned recently is that chickweed and hawthorn leaves are edible, which surprised me.
I have a tent and camping stove with several spare gas canisters. If you go to camping supplies stores they sell stuff to add to water to make it safe to drink. I also have a water butt to collect rainwater, I assume if that is filtered and boiled it would be safe?
I suppose I am fortunate here in that there is a lot of countryside around about for foraging in...and I work one day a week at an organic veg farm, so I know where to go for some veggies, lol. Another business right next to it is organic free range chickens, plenty of eggs there.
I would suggest stocking up on things like seeds for peas and tomatoes at least, which are easy to grow in various size pots...I have peas and beans growing in those giant plastic tubs. Tomatoes and peppers can be grown indoors on window sills.
Herbs can be grown in pots too and they make good medicine. I started a herbal tea/medicine thread in another group if anyone is interested in me copying the posts over?
That is interesting reading Rick, though it does highlight a problem almost everyone in the UK would have and that is sheer space for storage. Water storage alone on that scale would be impossible. Though there are some natural springs dotted around the country, we need to identify where they are. My home is the biggest out of all family members, and even I would struggle to store all that is suggested there. Though I could make better use of my loft and turn that over to storage of stuff with a long shelf life...it would have to be too as access is very difficult, lol.
Protection would be another issue here. With very strict gun control in the UK, the average person would not be able to defend their family and stocks. I think it would come down to "safety in numbers" .
I have just yesterday, learned of a very large section of land come up for sale and it is very tempting to check it out. It is pasture land so would be good for planting and maybe if regulations allow, building a few homes for myself and other close family members.
< < Protection would be another issue here. With very strict gun control in the UK, the average person would not be able to defend their family and stocks. I think it would come down to "safety in numbers" . > >
I would say: you`ve hit the nail on the head there mentioning PROTECTION & DEFENCE.
It`s a topic I did intend to raise, but with so little enthusiasm being paid to this thread (except for yourself & Rick) then I did wonder: is it worth the effort? lol.
DEFENCE & SELF-PROTECTION would pose a big problem, & that is no doubt why Governments are giving themselves `unlimited powers` - maybe even those I.D. cards & the possibility of whether those might later lead to implantable chips (another very important, but separate topic we should be covering)
A very good friend of mine, moved 10 years ago up to your neck of the woods actually, said he & his wife could see all this trouble coming. Friends & family thought he was crazy, paranoid at the time, but are now re-thinking in view of how things are unfolding.
They also have a friend (down South) who works or knows someone who works for the police down there, & word got out that the police were stocking up on body bags. We discussed this at length & concluded that the police were hardly likely to be doing that in any anticipation of a pandemic, whilst under such circumstances, the government would hardly be likely to use the police for such tasks because of the risk of infection causing even more lack of manpower. So, we have to ask ourselves : if not for bird flu - then for WHAT ? terrorist attack ? war ? climate event ? those are the most likely.
When it comes to protection & defense, it is difficult to assess WHO our greatest enemies might be.
Many ppl seem to want to ignore that there`s probably many `terrorist cells` already lying in wait right here in the U.K. just waiting for the green light, & an attack on Iran or a war whereby the U.S./U.K.alliance jump in to support Israel, might just be all the green light they would need.
Towns & Cities would fall into chaos. We already know that our under-manned police forces find it almost impossible coping with bog standard criminals. With our army lads away in Iraq, and the Army too, is now badly undermanned (from a report out just a few days ago) it would become a case of `every man for himself`
We saw on the TV and net news what happened after Katrina in America. Shops & homes were looted, and `the law of the jungle` prevailed.
Many people would no doubt abandon their homes & head for rural areas (assuming they were quick enough to get petrol, or had stocked up on it already) But hungry & homeless these people from the towns would soon become desperate, & no doubt it wouldnt be long before fighting broke out between country folk & the incoming refugees from the towns.
This is why my friends went so far as renew their lapsed firearms licence - solely for self protection, whilst if under attack, and no police available, then it becomes a case of kill or be killed. Hopefully just having a firearm would be sufficient to deter any looters or attackers. Pesonally, I dont have such a weapon, but that is only because I cannot afford it.
How long ppl will be able to retain their firearms is anyone`s guess. I do know I read one article it was stating that in U.S. there was a shortage of amunition supposedly because of the war in Iraq (hmm... an excuse as good as any, I suppose, lol) Whether we believe that, or whether it is happening here, who knows?
But its certainly not just the terrorists who are likely to become our enemies, whilst neighbour could turn on neighbour in desperation. That is why I NEVER discuss `preparation` with those living nearby because if I did, its obvious that NOT everyone would take notice & prepare, but rather would be listening & remembering & they`d be the ones that would cause me the greatest problems.
At least, if dont tell others, then my way of thinking is : in an emergency just pretend to be as desperate as they are !!!
I had even contemplated getting a large dog, but obviously only certain breeds would prove to be a deterrent, & when got a family those breeds of dogs are the ones less suitable. Also getting a dog for that reason would be very wrong anyway, and there`s the further consideration of then needing to stock up on dog food, further expense I cannot afford.
If people have got friends they know they can totally trust, then yes it does make sense that friends & family would mean more safety in numbers (as you pointed out) I`m relatively new to my area, & there are quite alot of elderly people so anything short of them battering someone over the head with their walking stick, they are hardly likely to prove useful for defense. Unfortunately, the grown up members of my family are quite some distance away, and mock me when I try to forewarn them of the impending troubles.
It`s a very difficult call. One good idea, for those who have got a car (which, again, I havent) would be to ensure you keep a supply of PETROL in reserve (assuming you have got a SAFE storage area, not too close to the house) At least, if worst come to the worst, you could then flee. Not sure where to, but better than getting killed.
Of course, when it comes to any idea of fleeing, or even hoping to get family members from one end of the U.K. to another, much depends on whether, in an emergency, governement would declare `a state of emergency` & might just STOP people from leaving their area (that is one of my concerns re. my family)
One of the other dangers we face is a possible FINANCIAL COLLAPSE, which again would no doubt lead to desperate people looting the supermarkets & wherever else they could. Even before looting set in, those with ready cash would make a beeline for the shops & the shelves would soon become empty. Supermarkets might close immediately (probably would) but small shops might just be glad of the sales, even though the money would be worthless.
Keep in mind that if there is a financial collapse - BANKS WILL SHUT THEIR DOORS - and that `hole in the wall` will NOT be likely to serve you with any money. So READY CASH might just be an advantage, if can find a small shop to buy a few more emergency items. Whether a collapse of the U.S. dollar would affect us, I`m really not too sure, but right now, & from what I`m reading the U.S. financial system/housing market is in one helva sorry state, & its my belief that its not a case of `if` but rather WHEN.
One very good solution I did read someone mention in a forum is : get yourself a couple of CREDIT CARDS - dont use them yet - keep an eye on what is happening financially - & if it looks like its all about to crash - then hammer those credit cards, whilst in an emergency who the heck is going to come looking for money from you? For most people, such a crash would mean they would not be able to pay any bills, rent, mortgage anyway, so a couple of Credit Cards would be the last of their worries - and the companies involved would probably be more concerned about the huge debters rather than a few new customers who`d gone on a shopping spree at Tesco`s !!! I`m knackered I cant even do that, cause I had a couple of debts a few years ago (paid off now) but bad credit record sticks, even though it was caused because I came to be out of work SICK !!!
If you have no established garden plot, or if there just isn't enough available space within your garden, you can still grow a respectable crop of spuds, and do a little recycling at the same time. Potatoes thrive in the warm environment of a soil filled tire! Four tires + Two pounds of seed potatoes + Good soil = 20-30 pounds of winter potatoes! Pick a spot where you can stack your tires which is out of the way and preferably out of sight. Loosen the surface of the soil just enough to allow for drainage, and set your largest tire in place. Fill the inside of the tire casing loosely with good topsoil, and then set 3-4 potato seeds into the soil. (Use sticks or rocks to keep the casing rings spread open.) Add enough soil to the tire "hole" to bring it to the same level as the soil inside the tire. When the new plants are eight inches tall, add another tire and soil to the stack, as in the first level. Repeat the process for your third, and if desired, fourth tires. As you add tires and soil to the stack, the 8" of the plant stalk is covered with soil. By doing this, the existing stalk essentially reverts to a root status and the plant is forced to grow upward to once again find the sunlight which it needs. (much like if you were to try to eliminate a dandelion by covering it with a scoop of soil) By raising the soil level this way (in 8" increments) the plant is able to continue growing without suffocation, and at the same time you are creating a 24-30" tap root from which many more lateral roots can develop. Each lateral root can then produce additional potatoes (at 3-4 levels rather than the normal single layer). When you water, be sure that the soil is thoroughly moistened all the way to the base of the pile. The tires act as an insulator and heat "sink" for your potatoes. This added warmth will cause the lateral roots (where the new potatoes form) to multiply more rapidly, thereby giving you more potatoes. When you need fresh potatoes next fall and winter, harvest the crop from the top tire, and remove it from the pile. More potatoes??? Next tire... P.S..... You can also use this method to grow your own peanuts, but only in two tire stacks!
There is a big difference between fear, as against common sense/logic/preparation.
I would agree, that it wouldnt do any of us any good to go round in a state of panic, anxiety & fear.
However, in view of all the signs we are seeing of where the dangers are, then its my opinion that only a fool would ignore those & scoff.
I can see from your profile that you are single, but let`s just suppose for example: that you had a young baby, & a couple of other kids. Lets also imagine you live in London, & a terrorist attack takes down the water facilities, & disrupts food supplies, & our Gov declares `a state of emergency` under which you are forbidden to leave your area. Lets say its the end of the week, your food supplies are running low, you were just about to go out & buy milk formula for your baby, when all this happens. So what you gonna do? Would you sit there saying: `there`s nothing to fear but fear itself` when the milk runs out, there`s no water, baby is yelling, the other kids want their dinner, but you cant go out because everyone has been told to stay indoors. Then what ? Now that`s the sort of situation which would cause panic.
In contrast, & had you just been abit wiser, & stashed away some water, food, baby milk etc. then you could sit back & say `we can manage, we are not going to go hungry nor thirsty`
It doesn't hurt to make some preparations. When there was the sugar shortage in 1974(?) it scared my mother into keeping stocks of such things, just in case of something similar. Remember the fuel shortages a few years back? Some were prepared. I like to keep some fuel for an emergency. I remember myself and my sister stocking with catering packs of rice amongst other things during the fuel shortage, it turned out to be unnecessary but in the end we actually saved ourselves quite a bit by bulk buying, lol.
It wasn't all that long ago there was a bread shortage, that inspired me to stock up on yeast and flour.
If all you do is buy a bottle of water or long life soya milk and an extra can of something like baked beans each week and put them in your loft or garage or under the bed, it may help if there are future shortages. At best come a bad winter and you can't get out, you are well stocked up, and even if we don't have a bad winter, Xmas spending isn't as harsh if you are already stocked with food.
I watched that whole movie Alf, and I was stunned, shocked and gobsmacked. I suggest everyone watches it, I know it's almost 2 hours long but it is worth every minute.
I don't think it takes away the need to prepare, I feel it shows a greater need to prepare if these individuals have things go the way they want. The only difference is that the target of our fears are not terrorists, but our ignorance coupled with the greed of those who are really in power.
Alf, what is the actual weblink for that movie, I'd like to forward it to others off this site?
The era of cheap food is over. The price of maize has doubled in a year, and wheat futures are at their highest in a decade. The food price index in India has risen 11 per cent in one year, and in Mexico in January there were riots after the price of corn flour - used in making the staple food of the poor, tortillas - went up fourfold. Continue
hi everyone. I am new here so just wanted to say hello and thanks for the comments i have read so far.. I am am member of www.projectavalon.net and that is a useful site for lists of resources and a variety of information covering just about any topic you can think of! I am very concerned with the real threats that are imminent and am doing alot of research in terms of trying to locate a safe zone to relocate to or group up with other like minded people to create our own community.
another site i recently joined is www.face2012.net this is for people seeking communities and support from other awake and aware people.