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51MPG Honda CRX or hybrid? June 23, 2005 2:47 PM

I can't afford a hybrid, so I'm going to pick up a honda crx for about 3k and then fix it up to get around 51 mpg, which is entirely possible. Now my question to you hybrid owners is which do you think is a better car for the money? The civic hybrid, prius (puke), or crx? The reason prius is puke is because honda was making hybrids for years but no one seemed to car, and then toyota comes along and is all buddy buddy with the media and created this bogus "new" hybrid fad that everyone seems to be on. The insight is not included because it is not in the same type of mpg range. Thanks, benjo  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Toyata is the pioneer in Hybrid Technology June 25, 2005 7:16 AM

To my knowledge Toyata invented Hybrid technology. You can verify this by going to discovery Channel and look for articles on this. You can also search and browse wesites on this info. But I am confused on the decision between buying Civic Hybrid and Toyta Prius. Do anybody have any good info on this???? Thanks JP  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
I dunno who did what... June 25, 2005 9:51 AM

I am not sure who made the technology, I'm just angry that toyota gets all the sales when honda does the better cars for gas mileage. My friend's prius gets 33 MPG, sad. I don't have a conflict, I was just wanting to get some hybrid owners opinions on a non-hybrid car the gets 51MPG versus a hybrid that does.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 July 05, 2005 7:28 AM

Maybe I'm offbase here with my knowledge, and if so I apologize... but I think that the 51mpg with a hybrid, a good part of that (when it's running off the electricity) is emmisions free. Where with the CRX, it's all emmisions. Am I correct here? I am not sure how they are coming up with the mpg rating..is it actually based on the fuel milage only or a combo with the hybrid? As for the Prius, it's similar to the Insight in where it "looks lie a hybrid". I want my car to look decent and not stick out like a bruised sore thumb. The Prius has a very nice interior, so I give Toyota points there, but the outside has a ways to go in my opnion. I prefer the Civic and Accord on looks for sure. As for bashing Toyota, can you blame them for doing there job and doing a good marketing job? If anything be upset with Honda for slacking there...it's a business and they knew what it took to market etc...  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Stephan July 05, 2005 7:36 AM

at least now there are some hybrid cars that look like real cars. before all that was available were expensive Jetson's wannabes that made one embarrassed to drive a hybrid. Its like they went, "man, we've got this cool new technology that will greatly benefit mankind, but our buddies in the oil compaines will loose a ton of money. Let's make it real ugly so we don't actually sell any, then we can always say we tried, when really we sabotaged ourselves."  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 July 05, 2005 8:24 AM

My Prius gets 50MPG on the highway, and 43MGP city - I don't know why your friend is only getting 33, something doesn't sound right.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 July 05, 2005 8:57 AM

I agree completely Spyral  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
To Answer the Initial Question... July 06, 2005 3:43 PM

I would agree with Steven D. on the emissions part of the hybrid vs. 51MPG CRX issue. If great gas mileage is your only motivation, then any gas combustion engine car that can match a hybrid's mileage rating would provide you the results you want. A big part of my decision to buy a hybrid was the fact that it was rated as a Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle and I wouldn't be contributing as much to the global warming/deterioration of the ozone problem. I believe Jeps K. is correct; Toyota did pioneer hybrid technology, Honda was just the first to the U.S. market with their Insight. (It's notable that Toyota was selling their Prius in Japan--since 2000--before Honda introduced the Insight in the U.S.) Then, as Steven D. points out, Toyota "did their job" in the marketing and promotional areas (as well as in R&D, in my opinion), and made hybrids sellable. The Honda Insight was a good initial offering for what it was and for a specific niche market, but Toyota was able to bring their technology closer to the mainstream with their Prius. A Prius that only averages 33 mpg is sad, Benjamin. Ours has averaged between 43 mpg and 47 mpg over it's 75,000 mile life. I've read that extreme climatic conditions where the air conditioner and/or the heater are running most of the year will lower the milage because these systems require that the gas engine run more to keep the battery charged (the air conditioning and heater are electrically powered, so this drains the battery more than milder climates where they are used less). We all have our own opinions as to beauty and good looks in vehicles. Good thing there are lots of choices, eh? My wife and I test drove the Civic Hybrid and the Prius before we made a purchase decision and one of the reasons we went with the Toyota was looks (this was low on the list, but still a consideration--artists do tend to consider aesthetics when making certain decisions). We considered ourselves fairly early adopters of this technology and we liked the fact that the Prius was designed from the ground up as a hybrid and had a distinctive look which was recognizable. I think it looks rather aerodynamic, which is attactive to me. The Civic, besides feeling more cramped, being seated closer to the ground, and seeming like there was less visibility, looked just like the non-hybrid Civic and we wanted something more distictive. So, when it comes to the look of our cars, go figure... The looks of the Prius don't seem to be slowing it's sales in our area. When we bought ours in May of 2002 it was the last one they had on the lot. Since then, through the end of that model and into the second generation model, our local Toyota dealer has not been able to get any for showroom or lot. Every single Prius that has come through has been ordered and was already spoken for before reaching the dealership (and they have sold lots!--a week hasn't gone by that I've not noticed new ones arriving and being prepared for their new owners). I did notice that they now have one on the lot, which looks like it's for sale rather than just waiting to be picked up. This is the first Prius to be so available in just over three years. The very fact that not too long ago there was a two-month plus wait to get one once you ordered it and that some people, rather than wait that relatively short amount of time, would purchase a previously-owned 2005 Prius for $2K more than the sticker price, tells me that the looks of the Prius is not inhibiting sales in the least.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 July 07, 2005 10:17 AM

I suppose it's also a matter of do you want to stand out and be on display or just do the right thing without everyone having to know. If it looked different but good to me, then sure, why not. I just don't care for the looks of it, if it was hybrid or not. And I'm a bit torn. I'd like to tell the world about what I'm driving, but I also like to just go about my business not standing out constantly. Either way though, I'm always happy to see a hybrid of any type on the road because someone who cares is driving it and helping to make a difference. As long as we all do our part and you like the way it looks, then to each their own.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Here, here! July 07, 2005 1:26 PM

"thumbsup"  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 July 09, 2005 3:13 PM

Prius's are wonderful cars. But VERY pricey. We had a REALLY GOOD Prius vs. Civic thread going but it somehow got deleted when I was on vacation :(. Toyota has been making their hybrids since '97 (Japan) and released the Prius a year after a Insight (2002?). Since then they've undergone a major redesign in 2004 to make them larger (now a mid-sized) hatchback with BETTER gas milage. 33 sounds incredibly low to me...that can't be right. My non-hybrid Civic gets better than that.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 July 09, 2005 3:14 PM

Ahhh, here's the other thread: http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=320&pst=74314&archival=1  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Benjamin, July 12, 2005 11:25 AM

The CRX sounds like a good option for you in the price range if you have the ability to fix it up. I had a professor that commonly got 50+ mpg with her CRX, so it is completely possible. Thanks for considering a car with good gas milage instead of the "oh, maybe my next car will be a hybrid, but in the meantime I can't justify the price and will contine to drive like I have in the past and will complain about gas costs" line I've actually heard from people often. And to reiterate what has been said, something is seriously wrong with a Pruis that gets 33 mpg. That's what my Camry got! Ours consistantly gets at least 51+ on mostly highway miles, which are less gas efficient for hybrids (but we never deal with the colder extreme temps), so please have your friend look into this.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
had crx si great car July 21, 2005 11:50 AM

It was great, for 3000 thats your best option.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
CRX...easy August 04, 2005 8:17 PM

CRX...since: 1. no battery pack to replace (a financial and environmental benefit) 2, likely better or equal fuel economy 3. savings...donate the difference the hybridis Zero emissions sometimes...but drive one and tell me how often your engine is Off?  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Actually August 06, 2005 8:42 AM

the Prius is always zero emissioins - Toyota also makes the Camry with zero emissions, and it's a nonhybrid.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Hmm August 06, 2005 8:52 AM

It seems to be impossible to always be zero emissions, just because that makes no sense. I'd like the hear where you heard that from though.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
ok, I admit it August 06, 2005 11:34 AM

it's not Zero emissins, but rated AT-PZEV, patrial emissions. "The Toyota Prius is one of the world's first commercially mass-produced hybrid automobiles. Manufactured by Toyota, the Prius first went on sale in Japan in 1997. The car was introduced to the worldwide market in 2000 and almost 160,000 units had been produced for sale in Japan, Europe, and North America as of the end of 2003. In Latin, prius means "before" or "first". The Prius (20002003 model years) is certified as a Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (SULEV) by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). The 2004 model is certified as an Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (AT-PZEV), which means it earns PZEV credits, as opposed to it being a Zero Emissions vehicle part of the time. The car was voted 2005 European Car of the Year, after the fuel-sipping sedan picked up the corresponding Motor Trend Car of the Year title for 2004. The Prius won the North American Car of the Year award for 2004 and was nominated in 2001." ----Wikipidia  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Hmm again August 06, 2005 2:57 PM

Well, I dunno. At fueleconomy.gov the crx gets the lowest emissions on the spectrum, so I am thinking it is good too, and I will be swapping the old engine to make it better. But honestly, european car of the year, that sucks. The VW Lupo was driven around the would and averaged 115 MPG and runs diesel, meaning it can run on recycled veggie oil and produce no poisonous sulfuric emissions, and hold five people, and town another car behind it, but oooo, hybrid, bow down to the hybrid which can't hold a candle to many of the non hybrids available in europe. I am thinking the hybrid is silly when 20 years ago one could buy a car that was more efficient than the hybrid for much less. As my math teacher pointed out to me last year, our average MPG in the US is the same as the model T got when it first came out. 26 or thereabouts, come on now. This accord hybrid and all these suvs that get crap mileage are just people trying to join the club of people who can "compromise" with themselves and the environment, and I think it's crap. All of us who drive cars at all (excepting EVs, of course) should just say: "We suck, we're burning fuel, no matter how little, and we suck for it." I know I have admitted it. I am doing something bad, but I am selfish at the same time. Whatev, I'm not on topic.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 August 06, 2005 4:19 PM

i agree as far as thoose who buy hybrids that just use the drive for more low end torq are silly. me i have a prius i get 54.8 MPG when i dont use the ev switch. i have also gotten the plug in kit, and created a solar charging station at my house. i can comute to and from work (40 miles) without the gas engine fireing up at all. its nice to have the ICE for when i need to make long trips. i bought the prius sheerly for the fact i sit in trafic the whole way to and from work. it takes me an hour and a half to drive 20 miles on average and during that time im generating no polutants. to me that is the most important part of my prius.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
^_^ August 06, 2005 4:58 PM

Yes, that is a good thing. For that reason mainly I wish to convert a VW Rabbit or something of the sort like an old Triumph (british sports car from back in the day) to all eletric after I get graduated. Zero emissions really is key for me, but I am thinking it's neat to be able to use a hybrid for that purpose. Online I have found a guy who made a EV Rabbit and then created a diesel generator he towed around for power on longer trips, somewhat of a homemade hybrid car, but awesome and just amazing. I suck at saying things, so I'll shut up.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
My Toyota Echo gets 45 mpg highway August 24, 2005 7:01 PM

My gas powered Echo gets 35 in the city and 45 on the highway. The Toyota Echo has the same chassis as the Toyota Prius hybrid but costs less than half the price. The Honda small Civic is a bit too small for me. I love my 2001 Toyota Echo.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Dear Benjo, go for the Civix August 25, 2005 5:28 PM

Even though the Civic is small, the gas mileage and efficiency is tremendous and so much less than a pricey hybrid. I wish you bon chance.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 November 13, 2006 10:01 AM

A hybrid is not financially feasible for me right now. Let me say that a different way: a new vehicle of any kind is not feasible for me right now. Even if I were in the market for a new vehicle, I would be cautious in buying a hybrid because I don't know enough about the disposal of old battery packs or the cost of new ones. Having said that by way of introduction, I recently rescued an old Honda Civic CX that was waiting to be towed to the junk yard. After a few hundred dollars out of my pocket and a lot of hours of my labor, the car is now achieving over 40 miles per gallon in mixed driving (no freeway) instead of being melted down and turned into something else. I admire and appreciate those who went out on the leading edge in purchasing the first hybrids on the American market. We need innovation. Until I can find an old used hybrid to tinker with, though, I am going to have to continue to find effecient transportation in other ways.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Honda CRX question... November 13, 2006 11:01 AM

So, Benjamin, how do you get a CRX to do 50 mpg?  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Anybody...? November 20, 2006 10:00 AM

Is there something different about the Honda CRX? Or is this a procedure that can be done on other vehicles... say, for instance, an '88 Chevy pickup...?  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 November 20, 2006 3:10 PM

The CR-X had a small cross-sectional area (so it didn't have to move much air), and was aerodynamic (so it moved that air efficiently) and light-weight. It's not so difficult to achieve 50 mpg with those conditions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CRX "The Honda Civic CR-X was first produced in 1984 and was a lightweight sport hatchback. In the American market, the CR-X was marketed as an economy sport hatchback, having room for just two passengers. European markets, however, received a more powerful ZC 130 hp engine and four seats. "Redesigned in 1988 and produced to 1991, the CR-X was very popular for its performance (specifically the US performance model, the Si), nimble handling, and good fuel economy. The original 1.3 liter car and the later American-market CR-X HF model could reliably achieve better than 50 mpg, more than a decade before gas-electric hybrids appeared on the market, and at no price premium over the base model; the 1.3 liter was rated at over 50 mpg for highway.[1]"  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
old car vs. hybrid November 21, 2006 6:18 AM

Apparently Toyota has been mass producing hybrids for about 10 years now overseas so its not new for them. They were not permitted to bring the technology to the U.S. until GM had a hybrid to sell - you can look all this legal stuff up. For reference: my co-worker has the hybrid civic and I have the hybrid Camry so we discuss and compare all the time. My sister used to own a CRX and to it's credit she loved it and it lasted her like forever until she literally killed the thing because she was such an awful driver. It does sound like you would have to do some kind of crazy modifications for it to get 50 mpg though because my sister's car got around 30 highway even when it was in good shape and of course back then that was considered excellent. Obviously any of the sub-compact cars that are out there now will get really good gas mileage so nobody NEEDS a hybrid. Toyota and Honda both make tiny little things that get around 40 mpg and they aren't very expensive. I was just tired of having a tiny car but didn't want to give up the great gas mileage so thats why I needed a big hybrid.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
compare V.W. diesel November 21, 2006 6:40 AM

I know a bunch of folks who have Volkswagen TDI (Turbo Direct Injection) diesels. These cars are larger and heavier than the fuel-efficient subcompacts of the 70's and 80's (I had four of those that averaged 40 mpg). The owners are disappointed if they get less than 50 mpg. One guy who admits to doing most of his driving at between 85 and 90 mph complains that he gets only 43 mpg.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
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