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Groups > MEDITATION - DZOGCHEN - ATI YOGA - HEALING CIRCLE > Discussions > Topic: New to DZOGCHEN? ATI YOGA?
Topic: New to DZOGCHEN? ATI YOGA?

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Sapan R.	New to DZOGCHEN? ATI YOGA? December 30, 2005 7:47 PM Hello ... thank you for being here now! Dzogpa Chenpo or more succinclty, DZOGCHEN, is the Highest Form of Vajrayana or Tibetan Buddhist Meditation, in Union with the the other High Meditation of Esoteric Buddhism known as "MAHAMUDRA" ... these two meditational practices are actually, in the tradition of the highest yoga, ATI YOGA, very esoteric and in traditional times, back in Tibet where they have both been cultivated and have always, for the last 1300 years, flourished, were only known and practiced by The Few ... that is "esoteric" -- known by a few or relatively few people. One Hundred Years Ago, for example, a legitimate DZOGCHEN MASTER would likely only pass on the techniques and the various litterature available and teach what are called PITH INSTRUCTIONS or VITAL ESSENCE VERBAL or Ear-Whispered Teachings to at most THREE DISCIPLES and often just to ONE! With the Tibetan Diaspora, the ravaging of the former Tibetan populations since 1950 in what is now called the "Tibetan Autonomous Region" of China, when, in 1959 so many Refugees fled the country, which is something that continues daily to this day, several of the Highest Tibetan Dzogchen Masters decided that the teachings should be released in a gentle way to the WEST and to the rest of the world. This is something we can go into, if you like [YOU REQUEST!], at a later time. However, what is important for this forum and for your complete edification and enlightenment is to know that a VAST DZOGCHEN LITERATURE has now been released, IN ENGLISH, and is readily available to the the Sincere Seeker today. In fact many bookstores and all of the major online book outlets have many of the available titles, and you can simply put them in your cart, pay your tab and BLAZE AWAY! Now first of all, I-I-I am NOT a Dzogchen Master. However, I am a serious student of Dzogchen and since 1995, as a Buddhist Practitioner and Western Lama of the Sakya Order of Tibetan Buddhism I have been presenting a course, a series of talks, and a general study called "DZOGCHEN Literature, Meditation & Practice." That is what I am going to do here. There will be no PITH INSTRUCTIONS, other than perhaps I could say "WAKE UP" ... "WAKE UP AND SMELL THE PRISTINE FLOWERS OF VAJRAYANA BUDDHISM" or something like that. My point is simply that, HERE, I will be happy to peal some of the layers of the "Onion of Dzogchen" [hey ... Onions are not especially good for serious meditators, did you know that?] and step by step in coming days, months and perhaps years [2006 is my chosen timing to start this ONLINE] show you certain facets of the Literature, some or perhaps a lot about Meditation, which I would ALL OF US to Dialog about, and I will point you in the direction of PRACTICE, which is the vital thing, so that you may be able to evolve along this PATHWAY ... the PATHWAY of ATI YOGA DZOGCHE! In Tibetan Buddhism there are FOUR MAIN CLASSES OF TANTRA. First of all there is (1) Kriya Yoga Tantra, (2) then Charya Yoga Tantra, the simply (3) Yoga Tantra (the easiest grasp of which is the more esoteric and mental-visual excercises in HATHA YOGA, which actually quite a few people here in the WEST are now familiar) and then the (4) SUPREME YOGA TANTRAS. The Tibetans are primarily concerned with the 1st & the 4th. I will say more about these in the next post -- after I gather with friends for a deliscious dinner. If you have any questions at this point, or any way along the way, do not hesitate to either POST to this group site, or send me a personal message. More about all of that, also, next post. Thank you and may your way be open to receive this knowledge, freely and ethically given, in a good way. E Ma Ho! How wonderful! Sarva Mangalam!! All is Auspicious!! =sapan rinpoche= [ send green star]
anonymous	January 17, 2006 9:49 AM Sapan for the invitation. Infinite Blessings, Joanne [report anonymous abuse] [ accepted]
Sapan R.	New to DZOGCHEN? ATI YOGA? January 26, 2006 7:56 PM New to DZOGCHEN? ATI YOGA? What do you need to know and when do you need to know it? For a full ongoing discussion of Dzogchen and Meditation, in general, go to www.DailyOm.com, sign in, and join the group at "Discussions" and DZOGCHEN! Over 100 posts, with some "catch up" for you to undertake! =sapan= [ send green star]
Sapan R.	MY APOLLOGIES FOR THE LAG IN THIS GROUP ... February 13, 2006 8:05 AM DEAREST ONE & ALL, Please accept my apollogies for the lag in this group. I am currently, and until March 15th in a semi-Retreat Mode, doing one of my Sycamore Samsara Retreats ... studying, meditating, doing my work and walking, with lower activity in TALKING, INTERNET & COMPUTERESE (Sorta!). I am behind, HERE, as elsewhere, in my Cyber*Lama work and will be reactivating it all as soon as ... PROBABLE! DZOGCHEN is a frightfully huge and sacred and secret topic and I am gingerly going into that here. MEDITATION is of course a pretty open topic and you should all weigh in and even start your own discussion threads here. More later ... I have to run ... or, I should say ... MORNING WALK before my 11am appointment. However, stay on your toes, or your meditation Zafu ... I shall return ... SOON! Thanks for your patience! Peace, Love, Harmony, Kindliness & Health, Sapan Rinpoche [ send green star]
Sapan R.	SOME OTHER DZOGCHEN GROUPS that I facilitate ... March 04, 2006 9:58 PM Just for your information & edification, there are two more active groups concerned with Dzogchen that I fascillitate and they are: [1] On the www.DailyOm.com Global Community of around 17,000 persons, under "Discussions," searching for "DZOGCHEN" [2] And this has morphed into a new site which was started as a teaching vehicle for me by one of my fine students: http://perfectcircleservices.com/DOME Check out, weigh in and enjoy! Sapan Rinpoche [ send green star]
Amanda A.	April 18, 2006 12:13 AM thanks for the invite sapan you are truly an amazing person [ send green star] [ accepted]
Sapan R.	April 27, 2006 4:25 PM Still patiently waiting for you to seek out the PATH of DZOGCHEN ... why put off your enlightenment in this time? Previously POSTED [March 4th]!!! Just for your information & edification, there are two more active groups concerned with Dzogchen that I fascillitate and they are: [1] On the www.DailyOm.com Global Community of around 17,000 persons, under "Discussions," searching for "DZOGCHEN" [2] And this has morphed into a new site which was started as a teaching vehicle for me by one of my fine students: http://perfectcircleservices.com/DOME Check out, weigh in and enjoy! Sapan Rinpoche [ send green star]
Sapan R.	June 04, 2006 2:30 AM New to DZOGCHEN? ATI YOGA? What do you need to know and when do you need to know it? For an interesting (if not full) ongoing discussion of Dzogchen and Meditation, in general, go to www.DailyOm.com, sign in, and join the group at "Discussions" and DZOGCHEN! Over 150 posts, with some "catch up" for you to undertake! =sapan= [ send green star]
Sapan R.	Hmmmm ... NEW TO THIS SITE???? July 24, 2006 4:27 AM New to DZOGCHEN? ATI YOGA? Hello ... thank you for being here now! Dzogpa Chenpo or more succinclty, DZOGCHEN, is the Highest Form of Vajrayana or Tibetan Buddhist Meditation, in Union with the the other High Meditation of Esoteric Buddhism known as "MAHAMUDRA" ... these two meditational practices are actually, in the tradition of the highest yoga, ATI YOGA, very esoteric and in traditional times, back in Tibet where they have both been cultivated and have always, for the last 1300 years, flourished, were only known and practiced by The Few ... that is "esoteric" -- known by a few or relatively few people. One Hundred Years Ago, for example, a legitimate DZOGCHEN MASTER would likely only pass on the techniques and the various litterature available and teach what are called PITH INSTRUCTIONS or VITAL ESSENCE VERBAL or Ear-Whispered Teachings to at most THREE DISCIPLES and often just to ONE! With the Tibetan Diaspora, the ravaging of the former Tibetan populations since 1950 in what is now called the "Tibetan Autonomous Region" of China, when, in 1959 so many Refugees fled the country, which is something that continues daily to this day, several of the Highest Tibetan Dzogchen Masters decided that the teachings should be released in a gentle way to the WEST and to the rest of the world. This is something we can go into, if you like [YOU REQUEST!], at a later time. However, what is important for this forum and for your complete edification and enlightenment is to know that a VAST DZOGCHEN LITERATURE has now been released, IN ENGLISH, and is readily available to the the Sincere Seeker today. In fact many bookstores and all of the major online book outlets have many of the available titles, and you can simply put them in your cart, pay your tab and BLAZE AWAY! Now first of all, I-I-I am NOT a Dzogchen Master. However, I am a serious student of Dzogchen and since 1995, as a Buddhist Practitioner and Western Lama of the Sakya Order of Tibetan Buddhism I have been presenting a course, a series of talks, and a general study called "DZOGCHEN Literature, Meditation & Practice." That is what I am going to do here. There will be no PITH INSTRUCTIONS, other than perhaps I could say "WAKE UP" ... "WAKE UP AND SMELL THE PRISTINE FLOWERS OF VAJRAYANA BUDDHISM" or something like that. My point is simply that, HERE, I will be happy to peal some of the layers of the "Onion of Dzogchen" [hey ... Onions are not especially good for serious meditators, did you know that?] and step by step in coming days, months and perhaps years, show you certain facets of the Literature, some or perhaps a lot about Meditation, which I would ALL OF US to Dialog about, and I will point you in the direction of PRACTICE, which is the vital thing, so that you may be able to evolve along this PATHWAY ... the PATHWAY of ATI YOGA DZOGCHEN! In Tibetan Buddhism there are FOUR MAIN CLASSES OF TANTRA. First of all there is (1) Kriya Yoga Tantra, (2) then Charya Yoga Tantra, the simply (3) Yoga Tantra (the easiest grasp of which is the more esoteric and mental-visual excercises in HATHA YOGA, which actually quite a few people here in the WEST are now familiar) and then the (4) SUPREME YOGA TANTRAS. The Tibetans are primarily concerned with the 1st & the 4th. I will say more about these in another post to the extent that I can say very much about TANTRA, here online! If you have any questions at this point, or any way along the way, do not hesitate to either POST to this group site, or send me a personal message. Thank you and may your way be open to receive this knowledge, freely and ethically given, in a good way. E Ma Ho! How wonderful! Sarva Mangalam!! All is Auspicious!! =sapan rinpoche= [ send green star]
anonymous	August 17, 2006 3:22 AM Thank you for this invitation.It is very much appreciated. Sapan san, I've heard one way of meditating is by focusing on a Buddha image(statue)which should be a few inches at eye level,no analyzing,and stating from a few minutes to about 5 minutes a day. Another meditational style I've heard about it,the better one becomes at Meditation,the less energy one uses,for instance,the inhaling becomes less noticeable(heaving of the lungs,chest movements.etc.)and the longer the exhaling becomes. Yet,another meditational style says we should focus(in our minds)a deity which we wish to have qualities of,until we believe the specific deities' quality(or qualities)have been absorbed into our minds and physicalitiy. How is DZOGCHEN MEDITATION, different and better if done properly and if done daily? [report anonymous abuse] [ accepted]
Sapan R.	Reply to Linda about Dzogchen and other forms ... August 17, 2006 4:26 AM A basic answer to your question, Linda, "How is DZOGCHEN MEDITATION different and better if done properly and if done daily?" which will not be entirely adequate, because of its brevity, is that Dzogchen, or Dzogpa Chenmo, which is also called the "Great Perfection," is from the Highest of the (Nyingma Tradition) NINE YANAS, or pathways in Buddhism, the Ninth Yana being Ati Yoga Tantra. The Diety Yoga Tantra Practices are encompassed in the 7th and 8th Yanas, Maha Yoga Tantra, and Anu Yoga Tantra, respectively. The 7th, 8th & 9th Yanas are referred to as the High Tantras. The 4th, 5th and 6th Yanas are referred to as the Lower Tantras. Practices which you may have heard about or actually have done in the 4th Yana, Kriya Yoga Tantra, are at the outset of the Tantric Pathways, and include practices such as Chenrezi, Manjushri, Green Tara and others. These are the beginning of "Deity Yoga." His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama has a great book entitled, in fact, "Diety Yoga," which will explain a lot of the landscape, so to speak, of these practices. In the 8th Yana, referred to many Buddhists as "Supreme Anutara Yoga Tantra," the pinnacles of the Diety Yoga practices are reached. They include practices like the Kalachakra Tantra, Hevajra Tantra, Chakrasamvara Tantra, and special high tantric practices such as the "Medicine Buddha," which was actually brought forth by the Buddha in two Mahayana Sutras. Tantra is a very deep and involved subject which requires special Empowerments and a profound amount of Study & Practice. The result of doing most of the 8th Yana, Diety Yoga practices is called Mahamudra (Highest Mudra) or "The Great Seal." Now, finally, Dzogchen moves "away" from Diety Yoga and focuses upon the Mind and the Nature of the Mind, and is the shortest path to Enlightenment. There are special commentaries, with commentaries today by many contemporary Lamas & Masters, on the "Union of Mahamudra & Dzogchen." And the teachings of Ati Yoga Dzogchen proceed from the teachings of Longchen Rabjampa [1308 - 1363] with several other traditions based upon the foundation of his work. So in the Study & Practice of Dzogchen, which is very rigorous, but like all of the highest practices, very time-consuming, one learns about the nature of one's own mind and the meditations, done properly, and on a daily basis, in fact, on a 24/7 basis, Day & Night, are very profound. It is said that all paths lead to Enlightenment, but that, for example, practicing the 8th Yanas will lead to Enlightenment in this very life, perhaps at the end of that life. Dzogchen, the 9th Yana, is sometimes called the "Lightning Path," and it is this path and only this path that leads to Enlightenment in a matter of weeks, months, or years and can be accomplished during this lifetime, the sooner the better, and with special practices at the end of ones life, carrys over profoundly into subsequent lifetimes. It is difficult to answer this question, Linda, without going into the very teachings themselves, and this is where I would lead you, or beckon you to travel. In the Fall (2006) at the www.PerfectCircleServices.com/DOME Sangha teachings, this good question of yours will be provided with better answers. Again, however, it is all time-consuming. Again, what better way to spend your PRECIOUS HUMAN LIFE than going for Liberation and Enlightenment, in this very precious human life! =sapan= [ send green star]
Yonathan F.	Hi December 03, 2006 3:13 AM Hi everyone, I am new here, and also new with Dzogchen practices, i just read Dzogchen's book by longchen rabjam, in the book it is said that the teachings are beyond sutric and tantric, it sounds similar to zen budhism in term of non discrimination. It also said that the differences are only in the relative truth, well i hope anyone can help me here to inform me, how different it is, Well, I am very happy in joining this group, thanks Mr. Sapan Rinpoche, i hope i can learn much from anybody.. regards' Yonathan [ send green star] [ accepted]
Sapan R.	SAPAN ADDRESS ... December 17, 2006 10:36 PM Please, everyone, for your Private Usage only, email me with your questions or concerns at: SapanRinpoche@sapanrinpoche.com Seasons Greetings & Kindest regards, Sapan R. [ send green star]
Marc G.	February 08, 2007 8:41 AM Thank for the invite Sapan. This is an amazing group. I'm very interested in learning here. I have a question where you maybe can help me with. Why do we fight against love getting to Big? I do know the theoretical/spiritual answer on it, but in practice it seems it can only be done step wise. Throw off one shell after the other and always discover deeper widenings of your self, until you reach the boundaries of the widened self again and become confined in another (often painfull and more complex) shell that bursts under the pressure of the Big Love. Can it also be done in one step, without a fight? [ send green star] [ accepted]
Sapan R.	OF COURSE WE CAN! March 26, 2007 3:10 PM A good practice, from Buddhism, is the TONGLEN PRACTICE, exchanging self for others. I have thought about your question above ... Why do we fight about love getting to BIG? and I am not sure that I have any direct good answer for you. Generally speaking, however, the practice of TONGLEN is very good for extending your Compassion and Loving Kindness to others. Pema Chodron, the fine American Buddhist Nun, has some fine work on this subject. Do a search in Amazon or, better yet, in your local independent metaphysical bookstore and come up with the necessary materials to really get you going. I would discuss TONGLEN here, but time's winged chariot, at my back, slows me down a bit at this time. Peace, Love, Harmony, Kindliness & Health, Sapan R. [ send green star]
Marc G.	April 01, 2007 8:02 PM I read about Tonglen meditation from Ken Wilber. I experimented a bit with it. It's about overcomming the ego. Ken Wilber explained it like this: Visualize someone who is in dire pain, or agony and then breath in this pain like a black cloud into your heart where you keep it. When you exhale you visualise your all your light and love go to the person in pain. You build this out to the place where the person lives, the country, the world, the universe. You breath in all the dark, negative energy of the universe and you exhale your light. This would confront you with your ego, because ego doesn't like to breath in a dark cloud of pain from 'another'. It bursts the bubble between me and the other and makes you discover the Oneness of being. I don't know if this is the correct version, but I experimented a bit with it and discovered that this version can also inflate the ego. As you breath in the darkness and breath out the light, you can also start to feel great while you can think the other is in need for your divine light. I played with the visualisation and came up with four versions of this. One is the first version: breath in the pain and give your light. The second version I came up with was: breath out your pain and breath in the others light. This confronts you with your shadow and gives you the faith that everyone has this light inside. Some find it easy (as me) to give the light, but have a hard time to show their darkness and pain. The third and the fourth version was equal: breath in the pain and darkness from the other and give your pain and darkness to the other. This is a real dark one. I do not mean switch the hate and negativity, but learn to see the waste you give to the world as the compost, or dung for the other. Have faith in the natural force to transform your waste in food. The fourth: breath in the others light and breath out your light sharing the divinity of One. Maybe I made something completely different from it, but somehow it works for me. [ send green star] [ accepted]
Sapan R.	YES, VERY GOOD POST, MARC! April 01, 2007 9:29 PM THANK YOU MARK FOR THIS EXCLLENT POST ... everybody reading THIS ... please read ALL OF THAT, ABOVE. Very good. Let us open up a TONGLEN THREAD! Actually there is a good one on the "Tibetan Buddhism and Tibet" Care2 site! [ send green star]
Rosemary H.	well, there is just so much to say Sapan ~ Thank You April 28, 2007 3:34 AM this journey has engaged many forms of meditation and study. enlightenment always the goal! searching and not searching. Being and not Being. Chanting mantra's for healing~ compassion. every moment an awakening. now you, Sapan, have opened a door. my Uncle is a member of the Black Hat Sect - he introduced me to Buddhism years ago. I majored in East Asian Studies at University. I find my Now here with you offering to share~ to teach~ when i arise every morning my mantra's are said ~ a new dawn ~ a new day ~ more to learn~ to feeL~ just breathe into that quiet place of no mind where all is still & empty~ i know that place Sapan. [ send green star] [ accepted]
Sapan R.	THANK YOU ... April 28, 2007 3:40 AM Thank you, Rosemarie, for your comments. Good luck with your Practice & Study. If you are not familiar with the texts suggested in this group regarding "The Practice of Dzoghcne," the teachings of Longchen Rabjam, and so forth, you will be very happy to discover these things for the first time. Please keep in touch and let me know if you have any questions with which I may be able to help you regarding DZOGPA CHENMO! =sapan= [ send green star]
Sapan R.	I mean ROSEMARY ... April 28, 2007 3:58 AM Sorry that I got your first name wrong in the post above, Rosemary. It is good to have you here in this group! [ send green star]
Sande W.	March 18, 2008 8:36 AM I have some time free - at last - and TRIED to check out the link... but Firefox can't find the server at perfectcircleservices.com. Is it still working and my connection slow, or has the link been discarded? [ send green star] [ accepted]
Sapan R.	THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP ... March 18, 2008 8:51 AM Actually, Sande, I will have to check it out! My Vajra Brother (Dharma Brother) hell_Zen is the owner of his great website, and HZ, "Austin" offered www.perfectcircleservices.com ("www" not necessary, but needed here to highlight in Care2) to host our special collaboration of an online, and pretty private "DZOGCHEN" teaching site. Austin and I have not made contact for several months and are like "ships passing in the night" in our busy, useful and dedicated lives. There are several things that have come to intersect and caused me to suppress OUR activity there, mainly the numbers game of reaching out to MORE PEOPLE, to attempt to just introduce them to the fact that DZOGPA CHENMO ... Dzogchen -- the Highest form of Tibetan Meditation -- and, that the ineffable nature of Dzogchen is something that we cannot teach DIRECTLY in Cyber*Space, and that the SECRET NATURE of it is protected by the Dharmapalas and ... I am deep honor to all things and causes and conditions to being able to even write this. Stay tuned and I shall check out the site with "Austin" and we shall make some overdue decisions. At any rate, the p/c/services project is on HOLD, and has never gotten off the ground the way that we envisioned it over two years ago. TIME IS SO PRECIOUS ... OUR PRECIOUS HUMAN LIVES ARE MADE UP, HOURLY, DAILY, MONTHLY, ANNUALLY, PERENNIALLY BY COLLECTIONS OF CHOICES! WE SHALL MAKE SOME MORE! Thank you again, Sande, for the Head's Up! =sr= [ send green star]
Hell Z.	checking out website March 18, 2008 4:20 PM I am running down a technical issue on that site, it should be restored soon. Regards Austin [ send green star]
Sapan R.	WELCOME ... January 16, 2009 6:01 PM Welcome to you from the Daily Om if you are just getting here from there, or wherever you may be coming to-from/from-to! Have a good look around and happy new year! Kindest regards, Sapan Rinpoche [ send green star]
anonymous	February 20, 2009 5:28 AM Thank you so much, dear friend Sapan Rinpoche for the invitation. I am happy to be here and learn. Thank you. Kindest regards to all new friends here, anne'marie [report anonymous abuse] [ accepted]