In the first place, I assume that EEG is a typo for EEC or, as it's more generally known now, the EU. EEG stands for electroencepholograph!

The Kurds have been responsible for numerous terrorist atrocities. The PKK has also had a long history of links with Al Qaida.

I have lived and worked in Turkey and know that it is not perfect but it is a functioning democracy and human rights abuses there are deliberately exaggerated by the Nazi PKK.

Human rights are far more respected in Turkey than they are in the Czech Republic, Spain, Bosnia, Albania, the Ukraine or even Latvia and Lithuania.

For the record, I am anti-European Union (I voted UKIP in the last elections) but if we are to have this monster there is NO justifiable basis for excluding Turkey. It is simple racism and they OUGHT to be let in.

Merhaba, everyone. (That's hallo in Turkish). I have lived and worked in Turkey and I love the country and the people. I think that it is a crime that they are kept out of the EU for reasons of racism and religious intolerance. We in the West MUST do all we can to preserve the legacy of Ataturk and keep Turkey a democracy and a unique bridge between two continents and cultures.

well well....this is funny though you know things about history and geography but that is from newspapers and propaganda.

where does Europe start and finish? from england to....poland? take Eurovision, UEFA, Eurobasket or http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldguide/destinations/europe

how come cyprus be europe...it is an island in mediterrenian. 

when it comes even Israel is accepted as european but when it comes to Turkey we are not cos we are Muslim. But when we look carefully the conflict between Jews and Christians is way mcuh than the Jews and Moslims...you all know that better than me though

France is EU, Turkey is not so they are always rite in every issue? so they decide we have to accept fully? wont we have the rite to say something "when" we enter EU?...

When did we learn  what happened in bulgaria? when thousands gathered in borders, when did we learn Bosnian tragedy? when we see people children, women raped, killed bombed and killed by snipers...when did NATO interfere? 29 August 1995...3 years later

11 July 1995...the Dutch soldier of UNPROFOR leave Srebrenitsa a  town under UN control to Serbian forces who killed more than 8,000 civilians. UN and NATO just watched..like your AI and Human rigths Watch organisations.....your problem is this, you dont consider yourself even for a moment as somebody who lost his beloved in these events...you didnt live such a tragedy, you cannot know ...its ok but just consider...how would you feel?

check your history references once again...turkey applied for E.E.C first in 1959 just after Greece did...

now you say Lausanne is old...so decleration of independence of US is too...Treaty of Tartu also...you cannot reach to a conclusion by this...the moment i write these it is history....onw sec, 2 hours, 15 years, 23 centuries....just has no sense

"conditions change and i change"....guess this too liberal, not my style

 65% of the UN Budget is paid by USA itself...how is it in AI and other organisations? if they are not totally paid by their own sources they are not independent...if they are not independent i dont trust sorry

Morgenthau was an american Jew who hated Turks at the first place...there were American Consuls in Erzurum, Adana etc...read their memoirs...or read about Exiles of Malta...British forces exiled many Turkish officials to Malta as prisoners after WWI. they searched for Armenian massacre evidence everywhere...in US archives, in Red Cross archives, in their archives...but the result was a big "0"

read history from historians...

Now this is what I call a good thread...No Flaming, just Facts, no attacking just good thoughts on a subject..No getting off subject! To bad some of the other groups do not have this type of discussion, cool, logical, facts,logical opinions, and "just plain old good bantering with no flaming"..That makes this a great discussion...kudos you all....TomH your Host

I am Finnish, and we are in between two worlds. We were invaded by the Swedes 1100 and then by the Russians 1800, and we got our independency 1917 after a bitter war that still affects our society and attitudes. 1940 Russia tried to invade us again. We managed to keep our independency - it cost us a lot, and it caused us to change our ways... We are seen as East-Europeans by all the countries West from us, and as West-Europeans by all the countries east from us... our dynamics are different from all the other European countries as well, and so are the dynamics of every European country. It doesn't work the way in UK as it does in France. We do respect Turkey's uniqueness, sovereignty and independence. But that doesn't mean that we turn a blind eye to what is happening in Turkey.

By the Turkish law, if you are Turkish - by nationality - your mothertongue is Turkish. By the Finnish law, if you are Finnish - by nationality - your mothertongue is the language that was spoken in your home. Discrimination is unfair treatment of a person or a group on the basis of prejudice. Acknowledging that your mothertongue might be different from mine is not discrimination by any definition. If I give you privileges because your mothertongue is the same as mine, or if I deprive you of privileges because your mothertongue is different from mine, that's discrimination. That is what happens in Turkey - if someone's actual mothertongue is Kurdish, you deny this little fact and claim that his/her mothertongue is Turkish, because he/she is Turkish citizen.
Let's say that when (mind you, "when", not "if") Turkey enters EU, I assume that Turkey is going to keep its national language, and not adopt the majority language of EU - which is French (majority language) or English (lingua franca). Now that is not logical, because by joining EU Turkey is making a big deal by Turkey being part of Europe - and "All Europeans speak European (that is French or English) as their mothertongue, and there is no need to provide education, media or service in any other language". It's the exact same thing with Turkish treatment of linguistic minorities - "All Turkish citizens speak Turkish as their first language and therefore there is no need to provide education, media or services in any other language". I see myself as European but also Finnish. My mothertongue is Finnish, and it is also one of the official languages of Finland - and Europe. If we would follow the Turkish style, I would have no right to speak Finnish, because I am European and all Europeans speak European... I'm very sorry for the fact that Turkey seems to be unable to see what we expect.

Yes, the Armenian genocide...
"I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this. The great massacres and persecutions of the past seem almost insignificant when compared to the sufferings of the Armenian race in 1915."
Henry Morgenthau, Sr. US Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire

When I walk in the streets here in Stockholm, I see people with different ethnic background - European, Asian, African - and most of them are Swedes. There are some tourists, some people who don't wish to be Swedish, like me, some refugees and immigrants, who haven't yet been recognized as Swedish, but I expect them all to be Swedish. My sister has become a Swedish National, because she wants to live in Sweden the rest of her life. Her mothertongue is Finnish, and she gets all the services in Finnish if she wants. Even when she is Swedish with all the same rights and responsibilities as every other Swede. Sweden and Swedes accept all the Swedes as Swedes, inspite their personal differences.

Ket

I don't think anyone thinks France is innocent. I would say every country has their own specific problems with human, civil and minority rights. But what the French did in Algerie 50 years ago, or with the Jews 60 years ago is a little old... You just need to look at the French Basques to find something current. Or what is happening with the immigrants and refugees living in France today. But - how ever unfair it is, France is a member of EU, so they don't need to convince anyone. Turkey isn't. Tough luck, maybe even double standards. Doesn't matter.

Yes, I do tell you about the committees keeping an eye on the human rights breeches all over the world. You wouldn't know of what happened in Bulgaria 1989 without these committees and organizations. They aren't just powerless bystanders, they do see, hear and understand things, and they do tell the world what is going on. THAT is the purpose with these committees and organizations, not that they would stop the abuse.
Without these committees and organizations we wouldn't have known about what was going on in Bosnia.
without these organizations Nato would not have entered the stage and put an end to the war.
Without these organizations the rebuilding of the former Yugoslavian parts would not happen.
Without these committees and organizations Turkey wouldn't do anything to the situation, and it's not just PKK who is being heard. We do hear what Turkey has to say about things as well.

What do you mean with "Xian" in this context? Finland isn't a Xian democracy, we have separated the religion from the politics. But the majority of the Finns are Xian. Does that make Finland a Xian country? There's about 30 countries in Europe and one of them is Moslem. If religion was the criteria, then we would have every other European country as a member, wouldn't we...
Besides... majority of Turkey isn't even in Europe, so one can discuss what Turkey has to do in European Union... why not start a Middle Eastern Union and answer questions why there are no Xian members?

I'm happy to hear that you are against all kind of power use in these kind of problems. So am I. Your response to Linda gave me the impression of that you think Turkey's actions in the Kurd question are justified by the fact that the Kurds are terrorist.

So Turkey applied for membership of the European Union already 1960? It's very interesting, because there was no European Union 1960.

No, I don't mean ancient Romans. You might recognize them better by the perojative name "Gypsies".

Yes, I know Turkey is in many ways very tolerant society. I wish you noticed that I mentioned on my list of facts that there is no religious discrimination EXCEPT for Moslem minorities - Have you been following the news lately about Iraq? About Shiias and Sunnis fighting? About both groups looking down at each other, and still they are both Moslems. There are several different denominations in both groups, there are several different Moslem "schools" or "sects" what ever you wish to call it. In Turkey only one is accepted as the "right" sort, and every other sort is being... let's say "discouraged".

Yes, the Jewish people is very grateful for Turkey, and I wish you noticed me saying that the Jewish community has no complaints about how they are being treated by Turkey, and they are happy about being Turkish Jews. Anti-Semitism is not a problem in Turkey, but it is in France among other countries.

Lausanne treaty was written 1923 and it is quite old by now. That it is done on religious base is not wrong, just insufficient. The Lausanne treaty has not been changed or forgotten, it has been expanded to include not only the religious minorities, but all - ethnic, linguistic and so on.

I also think that one needs to change the ways of doing things when the conditions change. I did a lot of things differently before I was married, and changed things when the conditions changed by my marriage. It looks very sensible to me. But - I'm European... aren't you?

I posted my sources. My main source is the Swedish committee (I know you hate committees, so sorry) who has been in Turkey for over a year and been travelling around and talking to all kinds of people, from poor peasants to ministers, reading newspapers, listening to radio and television, to find out what the real situation in TUrkey is. They did this for EU.
But you just need to search with "Turkish minority Assyrians" and you will see why. Not all of it is "Assyrian propaganda".

You are welcome to Human Rights Network to discuss the American anti-terror law and death penalty. It is being discussed. I don't even mind discussing the illegal and immoral treatment of the Moslem minority in USA here, if you wish. But that is USA, not Turkey, and we are talking about Turkey here.

There are several Universal laws and I do expect everyone to obey it. We have several organizations in place to watch over Human Rights for example, like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. These organizations are not somekind of police, but more a kind of media. And you can go to their homepage and make a search with France or USA and see that they really aren't in any way innocent, and that their crimes are indeed being discussed.

"the laws and rules may be found worn out or ancient but they helped us to stand on our own" - yes, they did... You know, when a child is being abused, he/she creates survival mechanics. When he/she grows up, the survival mechanics that helped the child through the abuse, are causing troubles in their adult life.

Linda pls dont give examples from AI USA....we all know what's going on in US prisons and even prisons under US control all over the world like Guantanamo and Abu Gharib....lately the CIA planes flying everywhere kidnapping people and torturing....

We know too that 75% of the African Americans under 25 living in Washington DC once visited prisons under different charges...

We all know the people injected to death or burned in electric chairs

We all know the discrimination between the Hispanic-African and the African American people in US

AI USA has lots to correct in US before interfering other countries.

the first law of the Law...there is no crime unless it is stated in Law. if you dont obey the laws you gotta serve the penalty...the guy should organise people, write to parliament, organize petitions to correct what he thinks is wrong, the should be the way...

ok maybe you dont have a military service duty...but we have....Israelis have it for both men and women. so who is rite..you? why? you do it in your own way and let us do it in ours.  

 

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/turkey/news.do

Public Statement

AI Index: EUR 44/036/2005 (Public)
News Service No: 338
9 December 2005 Amnesty International is gravely concerned for the health and safety of conscientious objector Mehmet Tarhan, 27, who is currently serving a four-year sentence in Sivas military prison on two charges of insubordination after refusing to do his military service. During his imprisonment, Mehmet Tarhan has allegedly undergone severe ill-treatment. Furthermore, he is now facing a possible forced physical examination which would amount to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, as well as a breach of his right to privacy. Amnesty International considers Mehmet Tarhan to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release.

Mehmet Tarhan first expressed his conscientious objection to military service on 27 October 2001, when he stated at a press conference in Ankara, “I condemn every kind of violence and believe that joining or condoning violence will only result in new violence and everyone will be responsible for the consequences. I think that wars caused by power-mongering states are first and foremost a violation of the right to life. The violation of the right to life is a crime against humanity and no international convention or law can justify this crime, regardless of any rationale. I therefore declare that I won’t be an agent of such crime under any circumstances. I will not serve any military apparatus.” Following this declaration, he remained active in his anti-militarist activities. On 27 October 2004 he again publicly declared his conscientious objection. He was first detained in Izmir on 8 April 2005 and brought to a military unit in Tokat after he refused to cooperate with military orders. As a result he was held in the military prison in Sivas from 11 April until 10 June. He was allegedly subjected to severe beatings and death threats by other prisoners during his detention there. When Mehmet Tarhan informed prison authorities of the abuse, no immediate action was taken to ensure his safety and the abuse reportedly continued. After his lawyer learned about the abuse, she raised her concerns for his safety with the prison administration, eventually prompting their intervention.

Conscientious objection is not recognized in Turkish law. A case was opened against Mehmet Tarhan under Article 88 of the Turkish Military Penal Code (TACK) on charges of insubordination. This charge carries a penalty of between three months’ and five years’ imprisonment. At the hearing on 26 May 2005 observers noted that there were signs of bruising on Mehmet Tarhan’s body and that he was unable to walk properly. The case was adjourned and the last hearing took place on 9 June. Observers noted that Mehmet Tarhan appeared physically weak. He had been on hunger strike since 26 May. The military prosecutor agreed to release Mehmet Tarhan on the grounds that he had already spent two months in prison, which is the period of time he would be required to serve if sentenced. However, upon his release, Mehmet Tarhan was called up to serve again, and again refused. He was arrested and held in the Military Prison of Sivas until his trial on 10 August, when he was given a prison sentence of two years for each charge of insubordination (totalling four years).

Amnesty International received reports that on 30 September 2005, a prison officer accompanied by at least three guards forcibly cut Mehmet Tarhan’s hair and shaved his beard against his will while he was held down by at least seven people. The incident reportedly left Mehmet Tarhan in great pain in his neck, hands, left arm and left foot, and unable to turn his head fully. Furthermore observers reported that he had bruises on his limbs. On 1 October 2005, Mehmet Tarhan was reportedly transferred to a military hospital against his will and examined by two military doctors. However, following the examination, which appears to have been cursory (allegedly lasting 10 minutes), he was apparently given a medical report stating that there were no signs of beating on his body and sent back to the military prison. Such an examination would be in clear contravention of the Istanbul Protocol, which stipulates that medical examinations should be thorough and carried out by civilian doctors. Following this incident, Mehmet Tarhan initiated a second hunger strike in protest at the prison authorities’ ill-treatment of him, and against the cramped, unhygienic conditions in which he was allegedly being held. According to reports, he was held in a small, dirty cell without windows, and was sometimes held in solitary confinement and denied his rights to make phone calls, receive reading materials and letters or see visitors for up to 15 consecutive days.

Amnesty International believes that the fact that Mehmet Tarhan has been tried and convicted twice for insubordination contravenes Article 14, paragraph 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), to which Turkey is a signatory, which states “No one shall be liable to be tried or punished again for an offence for which he has already been finally convicted or acquitted in accordance with the law and penal procedure”. The United Nation’s Working Group on Arbitrary Detention, in its Opinion 36/1999 on a similar case of a Turkish conscientious objector, Osman Murat Ulke, found that his repeated objection to military service was “one and the same action entailing the same consequences and, therefore, the offence is the same and not a new one”.

read on in http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/turkey/document.do?id=ENGEUR440362005

1. Gagavuz, Ingush, Nogay, Pomak etc. are turkish originated tribes so they cannot be defined as minority they belong to the majority

2. Romas?...you mean the ancient Rome? we need a very detailed DNA investigation who is from ancient Rome!!!!

3. Alevis are turkish people but Alevi is a religious thing. As you were accusing Turkey of making religious discrimination you are doing it.

I myself did know that there are so many "minorities" cos we see and accept everybody as Turkish and behave equal to all. It is even enough to "feel yourself turkish" we never discriminated people as the westeners did. We still have Spanish Jews who runaway from Spanish inquisition from 16 century, we got Ethiopians and Africans, we got Polish people who ranaway from russian oppression. And we never look at them as foreigners we accepted them as our own people. The Armenians were the "millet-i sadika -the people to trust". the doctors of Sultans were Armenian, The foreign minister was Armenian originated in balkan wars...our 2. president and the 8 was kurd originated...now you show me any example from US and EU....till 60's african americans were being burned by KKK....show me any Black minister of Holland, Spain, Britain, Germany...they all used them as slaves for centuries...

4. Lausanne treaty calles Greeks, Jews and Armenians as minorty...it is signed by european powers too...now you say that is done on religious base which is wrong....so why did they accept it? so you say europeans do something when the conditions change they will forget it and try to change it for their advantage....cool, but what about us?

5. On what evidence you  are accusing of the badly tread of Assyrians?...

6. You are expecting that there should be just on law on earth and everybody should obey it?...every country has different laws. US has more severe anti terror laws i guess....and they still has death penalty why dont someone talk about it?

in Switzerland it is against law if you say there is no Armenian genocide...there are even historians...(Justin McCarty) who are banned to enter Switzerland!!! isnt that stupid? before changing others faults you gotta be doing that foryourself.

We build this republic on pain and misery...we faugth against Russian, British, French, Greeks and the inner enemies at a time they were the biggest empires on the world...we built the republic for the sake of the people living in. the laws and rules may be find worn out or ancient but they helped us to stand on our own...the dynamics of European countries are so different from ours and you gotta respect it. you cannot expect British to think and act like a French or a Dutch, but we need to see the same respect if there is a equity.

Lastly, if you walk in the streets you will see blondes with blue eyes like Swedish, slanting eyers like Japanese, curly hair like africans, short people like mexicans, etc etc....the race is so mixed that it is international and we all accept them as Turks. we dont need any discrimination you did which is against the human rigths decleration. that will only bring back the pian and misery to us again  

Kaiser, of course the Finnish president can "explain human rights" and so can everyone else on earth.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

"What does "the things French did in Algeria" or "the things Serbs did in Bosnia" or what Bulgaria did to Turkish people in 1989 has to do with anything?"

the membership issue of Turkey bonded with the so called Armenian genocide. EU want us to accept it otherwise we cannot be a member but they never accept the historians to gether and talk about it and the biggest supporter of the campain is France...but French is not so innocent as they show themselves, the Algiers incidents and the Vichy goverments behaviours to Jews durng the IIWW

Dont even tell me   about the EU or other commities watching Bulgaria on human rigths issues...for 5 years they watched Serbs to exterminate Bosnians!!! they watched snipers killing women and children. now you want me to believe that Serbs changed in 10 years but you dont believe that turks changed over 100 years?

I give these examples to show that there is a double standard. EU dont show the same respect to Bulgaria or Serbia as they do to Turkey to support my idea.

"EU isn't choosing its members according to their religion, ethnicity or wealth, and shouldn't do that either"

Oh my....tell me a non christian EU member then?...we applied for membership more than 45 years ago...

"Let me just ask you one thing - do you think Palestine should be independent or do you have the same attitude to Palestinians who behave the very same way you critisize the Kurds of? Do the Israelis have the right to "burn villages and kill people" just because they are "terrorists"?

1-Palestine issue is dont have the same historical bases as Kurdish one. But to answer basically, i am against all kind of power use in these kind of problems. If you have a problem you gotta solve it peacefully. The problems cannot be solved by killing civilians or innocent people. ok...Israelies dont have to rigth to burn villages but do Palestinians have the rigth to burn buses or kill people sitting in a cafe? Peace is the answer. To me Arafat was as devilish as the Israelian counterpart...dont even figth or hide behind people asking help and watch your people die!!! he was the biggest coward!

The thing is that all European countries are blended.
The Samic people is living in four different countries right now, and even though nothing would delight me more than to see a united, sovereign and independent Sapmi, the Samic people are mostly interested in being recognized as a unique and appreciated part of the country they live in.
The Jewish people had no problems in living among other peoples for centuries, it was only when the other people thought the Jewish people was a problem, when they started dreaming of an own country. There is still a Jewish minority living in most of the countries today, because their identity isn't bound to nationality.
It saddens me that the Turkish majority is still carrying the fear born when the Ottoman Empire shattered, and I hope they will learn to understand that minorities and diversity is not a bad thing.

I would like to say that the demand of that Turkish is the official language in the country and should be the main language, is only reasonable and fully acceptable. No-one, except perhaps the most extreme activists, demand that the minority languages were given as much space as Turkish has. I don't even object to that in the public schools all education is given in Turkish. But I will claim that human rights are being breeched until the minority languages get an official minority language status in Turkey, and it becomes legal to publish material in ANY language, to broadcast in any language, to teach any language and to use any language in private gatherings and conversations. Any efforts to limit the natural rights will only cause an upraisal and "terrorism", and in the end will cause exactly what the Turkish people is trying to avoid - the break-up of the Nation.

More information
http://www.ui.se/texter/op19.pdf
http://facweb.furman.edu/~jpitts/17-turkish%20minorities.htm
http://www.hr-action.org/archive/appeal.html

The countries of European Union are well aware of Turkey's breech of minority rights. EU has told Turkey to do certain changes in their current politics before they will be accepted as a member of EU.
But this is a double edged sword... it's like why the Olympics were given to China with all Chinas political problems... They justified the decision by saying that all this attention to China will encourage China to make improvements as it comes to human rights - and the choice will encourage China to try to reach the standard in all the other countries. The same reasoning is used in Turkey issue. Because Turkey wishes to belong to EU it has changed a lot during the process.

There are though small problems, mainly because Turkey doesn't recognize the Muslim minorities as minorities... The internationally accepted definition of minorities define minority by nationality, culture, ethnicity, religion and linguistic. There can be also other criteria to define minority, as size, living conditions, location and predicaments. Turkey defines minority only by religion.

Some facts

Turkish minorities:
- Turkish Greeks
- Armenians
- Jews
- Kurds
- Assyrians
- Zazas
- Laz
- Romas
- Arabs
- Alawites (Alevis - Shia Muslims)
- The Dönme (kind of Messianic Moslems...)
- Circassians
- Georgians
- Abkhasians
- Chechens
- Gagauz
- Ingush
- Nogay
- Osets
- Yezides
- Pomaks (Bulgarian Moslems)
- Albanians
- others

* 1991 the law that prohibited speech and printing in minority languages was abolished
* 2000 it was ruled that children could legally be given names of non-Turkish origin
* It is illegal to teach the minority languages, not only in public schools but also by private courses.
* all radio and television broadcasting is done in Turkish (or certain foreign languages - nothing is done in minority languages)

*Turkey has signed the Lausanne Treaty, UDHR, European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights and IC on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and is part of the OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe).

*There is no religious discrimination (except for certain Muslim denominations and by private persons)

*The Jewish minority declare that they enjoy full freedom of religion and worship and do not encounter anti-Semitism either from the state or from society. (Except for the "usual" amount from some private anti-Semitic persons)

*The Greeks and Armenians are seen as foreigners and not as Turkish minorities.

*The Greek are being harassed by the police, their freedom of expression, education, religious freedom and right to control institutions is restricted and they and their religious sites are targeted with violence, like desecration, bomb attacks and assassination.

*The Assyrians, Syrian Christian community consisting of refugees, is not officially recognized and are treated very badly by all instances.

*Article 8 of the Anti-Terror Law reads "No one may engage in written and oral propaganda aimed at disrupting the indivisible integrity of the State of the Turkish Republic, country and nation. [...] Thos who engae in such deeds will be sentenced to from one to three years in prison and given a heavy fine"
In practice this means everyone who even insinuates that there are certain minorities with land rights - "if one were to say that Kurdistan belongs to the Kurds, Armenia to Armenians, Lazistan to the Laz and Rum to the Rumis, what would be left for the Turks?"

The Kurds are not trying to make Kurdistan a sovereign and independent country and divide Turkey - they are after an official minority status, the right to communicate in Kurdish, the right to be Moslems as they define it and the right to follow their own cultural traditions. Kurdistan's independence comes to discussion as a solution to the discrimination problem, if the official minority status is not going to happen.
The Iraqi Kurds would probably had a chance to make Iraqi part of Kurdistan independent, but they didn't even try. All they wanted was a say in Iraqi politics, as a part of the country's population - as Iraqis.

The main problem is that Turkey is terrified of that Turkey will cramble as the Ottoman Empire did. If one acknowledges the minorities and give them specific minority rights, where does it ends? Turkey is too small to survive a division like what happened in Russia - the common official language and demand of that all Turkish citizens are Turks is an effort to keep the country together. So, where does it ends? "If you give the devil a little finger, it takes the whole hand".

to be continued...

Kaiser, of course the Finnish president can "explain human rights" and so can everyone else on earth.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

What does "the things French did in Algeria" or "the things Serbs did in Bosnia" or what Bulgaria did to Turkish people in 1989 has to do with anything? Algeria has been independent since 1962 and Turkey is probably enter in EU before Serbia. And Bulgaria - the situation has improved very much since 1989 and there is the Bulgarian Helsinki (sic) Committee working to keep an eye on how the Turks and Muslims in general are being treated. Nevertheless, if you wish to oppose that France has been accepted as a member of EU inspite of their breech of human rights, that Bulgaria is on its way to get accepted and that Serbia is under investigation, please feel free to open a discussion about these countries in another thread. This is a discussion about Turkey.

(The facts a) Muslims have had their rights offended and b) Turkey is a Muslim country has nothing to do with each other. EU isn't choosing its members according to their religion, ethnicity or wealth, and shouldn't do that either.)

Let me just ask you one thing - do you think Palestine should be independent or do you have the same attitude to Palestinians who behave the very same way you critisize the Kurds of? Do the Israelis have the right to "burn villages and kill people" just because they are "terrorists"?

Ket

spanking???...awesomeeeeeeeeeeeee

one turkish stalker getting spanked /whipped by Dutch girl

1 dead of mine explosion 5 injured...one lost his leg

2 PKK militants get caugth with 2 kgs (4 pounds) of cyclonite RDX bomb. 1 sergent died cos of mine explosion...1 policeman killed on duty. he had triplets. another killed on his watch in front of a police station as of today. explain your thoughts to their family. how do you think that they will respond?

while try are trying to hypnotise you with this democracy stories in Europe...they go on killing people here...you dont have any problems in netherlands? deal with them...

Second International Conference on EU, Turkey and the Kurds 09/09/2005 EUTCC EUTCC Press Release: Second International Conference on EU, Turkey and the Kurds EU TURKEY CIVIC COMMISSION European Parliament Conference, Brussels, 19-20 September 2005. In November 2004 the Rafto Foundation, Kurdish Human Rights Project and medico international hosted the first conference on EU Turkey and the Kurds in the European Parliament. As an outcome of this historic event, these organisations and the Bar Human Rights Committee of England and Wales established a standing Civic Commission, the EU Turkey Civic Commission (EUTCC). On December 17, 2004 Turkey was granted a date for starting formal EU membership negotiations. It was decided that Turkey met the required standards for EU membership and the talks would commence on October 3 2005. The EUTCC favours Turkish EU membership as we believe it is an opportunity to transform Turkey into a stable democracy and bring a lasting solution to the Kurdish question. It is vital, however, that Turkey are not admitted EU membership before the country have implemented the reforms necessary to meet the Copenhagen Criteria. This includes consultation and dialogue with Kurdish representatives. By hosting a second international conference on EU Turkey and the Kurds, the EUTCC wishes to provide another democratic platform and contribute to the ongoing dialogue between the EU and Turkey. The conference will bring together non-governmental organisations, members of the European Parliament, Turkish, Kurdish and European politicians, academics and writers, focusing especially on human rights, democratic reform and the situation for the Kurds. The conference’s findings will be published and presented to the European Commission. The conference thus presents an opportunity for NGOs and individuals with regional expertise to highlight to decision makers the successes and failures of the Turkish Government’s reforms. For further information, please contact Kariane Westrheim, Chair of the Board of Directors, EUTCC, Tel: + 47 97642088 kariane.westrheim@iuh.uib Jon Rud, Secretary General, EUTCC, Tel: +34.965846645, JONRUD@terra.es Kerim Yildiz (Director)/ Rochelle Harris, Tel: +44 (0) 207 287 2772, khrp@khrp.org Hege Ekeland, Project Assistant, Tel +47 93 22 17 36, hege.ekeland@gmail.com EU-Turkey Civic Commission Patrons Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, Nobel Peace Prize Recipient Dr. Shirin Ebadi, Nobel Peace Prize Recipient Bianca Jagger Goodwill Ambassador of the Council of Europe Harold Pinter, Playwright Advisory Council Matay Arsan, John Austin, Dogu Ergil, Conny Fredriksson, Michael Gunter, Jean Lambert, Sarah Ludford MEP, Richard McKane, Dr. Konrad Melchers, Margaret Owen, Denzil Potgieter, Prof. Wolf Dieter Narr, Prof. Raimund Rütten, Alyn Smith, Reyhan Yalcindag, Andrew Duff, Nicholas Hildyard, Mark Thomas, Lord Rea, Hywell Williams, Hugo Charlton, Stewart Hemsley, Desmond Fernandes

ok...you know the issue we dont....go ahead and help the terrorists.

Police storm Kurdish institutions on instructions of Interior Ministry This morning, 5 September 2005, more than 300 police officers stormed the premises of Ozgur Politika, MHA (Mesopotamian Press Agency) in Frankfurt am Main, musical publishers MIR in Dusseldorf, and the Mesopotamia Press in Cologne. The raids took place as a result of legal proceedings to close these institutions. According to the Interior Ministry these proceedings are being brought for alleged support for a criminal association. During the police action journalists, writers and other employees were arrested, and computers and documents were seized. As a result, publication of Ozgur Politika will cease and the continuing work of the news agency, and the book and music publishers will be hindered. Police also raided the homes of editors and contributors to the newspaper Ozgur Politica including Masallah Ozturk, Cemal Ucar, Abdulkadir Konuk, Selim Ferat and Can Kasapoglu. MHA and Ozgur Politika have pursued their journalistic work for years under the rubric of German press law. They do factual coverage of world news, specialising in the Middle East and the political situation in Turkey. Amongst their output the book and music publishers publish books and music which have a critical engagement with the situation of the Kurdish population in the Middle East. These events represent a huge attack on press freedom and freedom of expression. The Federal Prosecutor’s office is trying to prevent any form of critical expression of opinion on events in Turkey. This policy of the German government is an attack on the voices of the Kurds in Europe and is a European counterpart to the repressive and undemocratic policy of the Turkish government towards progressive political forces in Turkey, directed towards military conflict instead of dialogue between the social forces and interest groups involved. We appeal for solidarity from all progressive individuals and organisations in Europe and for them to act on our behalf as the voice of the Kurds. Kurdistan National Congress (KNK)

subjective anti kurd view???....sorry i was talking about pkk-kadek and what that did to their people. that would be mixing kurds and pkk which i didnot mean but you do. you dont like turkish propaganda but you do make "free ocalan" propaganda..go ahead and call him "Mr." a bloody killer. asi said i dont believe that EU will survive why should i want turkey to join then?. it is not for my advantage to say the truth. it is for europe and it is up to them to use it or not. you just talk about the anti democratic pressure on kurds here on the basis you read from papers, "human rigths" ngo's...do they write about the kurd presidents, members of the parliament, celebrities, goverment officials. course not you are not ending the discussion cos you dont accept anything against your view ...i dont mind really

Hey taylor babes You are turning a call for help into this political argue. Is this Turkish government propaganda? My resorces are as I said before from what I get to read in the cases in my work and from human right reports and news paper reports. You can not accuse me of any political group assosiation as I am not a nationalist of any kind at all. And these kind of discussions and indoctrinations will not lead to anything. You did answer all your questions yourselve from a subjective anti kurd view so there is no use in a discussion with you on this. I give my own opion when I think these people/ or in case of the petition this persoon, can use help. And I think all others who read it are capable of doing that themselves too. And also will understand I am not doing political propaganda I am asking for help from humane point of view. Here ends this discussion for me i am not into fights with facts and”objective” views.

turkey should be allowed cos it is the only democratic muslim country. it may be a model in muslim world. this will bring peace to christian and muslim conflict. EU would gain power in economy and militarly. there is a huge young population ready to produce and consump. but in my opinion it shouldnt be allowed unless it is treated equally with the other member countries. dates like 2015-2020 is funny cos i dont think EU will survive that long

the finnish president can explain "human rigths"? what is the definition? the things french did in Algeria was totally in the definition! the things serbs did not long ago in bosnia was in definition! when bulgaria exiled 300,000 turks in 1989 it was human rigths? (now they have the rigth to travel free in EU) these nice words are used by all politicians. who will decide at the end what is human rigths what is not?

the Finnish president said something like this: "Of course there is no problems with accepting Turkey to European Union, AS LONG AS TURKEY IS FOLLOWING THE HUMAN RIGHTS..."

http://www.pkkgercegi.net/pkk_gercekleri_dosyalar/frame.htm

In the attack directed to the Siirt-Eruh- Bağgöze district, Kılıçkaya village/ Çağlayan field Milan on 18.08.1987; our 25 citizens, 2 of who were children, lost their lives. On 10.10.1987, in the armed assault performed in the Şırnak-Meşeiçi village/ Çobandere field, 13 people were murdered. On 29.03.1988, near Siirt- Eruh/ Yağızoymak village, 9 of the shepherds who had been grazing sheep were murdered by being strangled by the terrorists. On 07.05.1988, the militants who attacked Şırnak-Taraklı/ Üçkardeşler field, killed 13 people, 5 of whom were women. On 02.05.1988, 6 people were killed in the armed assault performed in Hakkari- Uludere/ Ortabağ village. By the terrorists who attacked Mardin – Nusaybin- Taşköy / Balminin field on 08.05.1988; 10 people, 7 of whom were children, were murdered and 3 people were wounded. On 24.11.1989, in Hakkari- Yüksekova-İkiyaka village/ Aşağımolla Yasin neighbourhood, 28 people were killed and 2 were wounded in a similar assault. On 25.12.1991, a group of 40-50 people who illegally marched by shouting slogans in favour of KADEK on Istanbul Street, Istanbul- Bakırköy, exploded Egebank, Emlak Bank, Kit; Arcelik and Cetinkaya stores with molotov cocktails. As a result of the fire broke out in the Cetinkaya store , 3 men, 1 child, 7 women; a total of 11 people lost their lives, while 14 civilians were wounded and 47 people involved in the assault were arrested. A group of people who assembled in the Centrum of Sirnak – Cizre on 21.03.1992 started marching by chanting slogans on behalf of KADEK, while another group of 1000-1500 people with the KADEK colours,too, started marching from Saklan valley in the Southeast of Cizre to Cizre. The group in the Centrum opened fire on the security forces; in the incident 13 civilians died and 26 civilians were wounded. On 12.02.1994, at the Istanbul-Tuzla train station, 5 military students lost their lives, 16 military students and 11 privates were wounded as a result of the explosion of the bomb that had been put in a rubbish-bin by the KADEK militants. On 04.05.1995, Nazlı Dress and Finery Store was exploded with a molotov cocktail; in the fire broke out, 3 civilians died and 19 civilians were wounded. On 22.06.1996, as a result of the armed assault carried out in Altındağ Dinlenme Tesisleri on the Diyarbakır-Elazığ highway, 1 sergeant and 1 police officer lost their lives for their fatherlands, 6 civilians died, while 1 police officer and 11 civilians were wounded. On 09.07.1998, as result of the explosion of the bomb which had been placed in the ÜNLÜOĞLU buffet, that is in the historical Mısır Çarşısı İstanbul-Eminönü, 7 citizens lost their lives. Together with the 3 German, 3 French, 2 Norwegian and 2 Persian, a total of 121 people were wounded in the incident, 111 of who were our citizens. On 13.03.1999, by 16:30, İbrahim Taşlı’s five-storey shopping centre called Mavi Çarşı Fahrettin Kerim Gökay street, no:218, Kadıköy/istanbul, was exploded with a molotov cocktail by a group of terrorists; as a result of the consequent fire and smoke, 10 women and 2 men lost their lives. Together with the one who died in the hospital, 13 people died in total, and 5 people were wounded. The doers of the action were arrested by means of the operations performed by the security forces.

Dear Linda, From things you mentioned here i guess that all you know about this issue is based on the things you read of pkk propoganda. i wonder if you ever lived in TURKEY.you talk about the villages burnt, people death. ever wondered who did that?...who decided to seperate the country? did turkish goverment one day decided to burn villages and kill people that they lived together for 1000 years ( i believe there should be more Indians today in USA and less African Americans if you managed the same thing and more Aborgines could be seen in Australia) who figths agianst the state? When we look at the actions performed by the terrorist organisation KADEK between 15.08.1984 and 20.02.2000, we see that KADEK made about 21866 terrorist actions 6751 of these incidents were assaults, where as 8581 were clashes with the security forces, 3519 were explosions due to mining and bombing, 411 were usurpation, 1076 were waylays and kidnaps, 676 were declaration distributions and 852 were illegal meetings. In these incidents, 5546 security guards died for their fatherlands, 4027 of these guards were soldiers, 1265 were Village Guards and 254 were policemen. A total of 11383 security guards were wounded; 8676 of these guards were soldiers, 1725 were Village Guards and 986 were policemen. 4561 of our citizens lost their lives in these incidents while 5860 were wounded. In the operations performed by the security forces throughout the country, 18958 terrorists were seized dead and 706 terrorists were arrested wounded..Including the ones who had helped or acted as receivers, a total of 58165 terrorists were arrested while 2192 terrorists submitted to the security forces. As result of the successful operations performed by the security forces, 241843 long-barrel firearms, 5614 pistols, 21625 bombs, plenty of munitions and organisational staff in the possession of KADEK were confiscated. KADEK caused the utmost destruction in the eastern and southeastern regions of Turkey. On order to realise its desires, it mainly tried to daunt the people of the region on the basis of compulsion. Consequently, in the residential districts where it could not receive support or help, it carried out bloody massacres that ended up with the death of our many citizens- from the infants in the swaddling clothes to the women and oldPress members that are the most important elements of the freedom receiving information, could not escape from being targets of this illegal terrorist organisation, either. In 35 attacks directed to the members of the press, 21 press members lost their lives, while 6 were wounded. Majors and village elders, who are selected by the public to render services to the region, also took place among the targets of the relentless terror. In the 23 assaults directed to the majors, 8 majors were killed and 3 majors were wounded. In the 105 attacks made against the village elders, 60 elders lost their lives while 8 were wounded. Only 7 out of the 30 kidnapped elders managed to return. Nowhere in the world had the teachers been the targets of the terror. Teachers, whose duties are to educate the children and to enlighten the human, were wanted to be daunted by KADEK’s pitiless violence actions despite their sacred duties. In order to defuse the educational institutions and leave the region illiterate, KADEK carried out many actions that were directed to the educational institutions as well as the teachers. In 128 relevant assaults, 116 teachers lost their lives and 48 teachers were wounded. 21 of the 30 teachers who were kidnapped later managed to come back. Even the imams, who are responsible from rendering the religious services to the public, were attacked. In 40 incidents, 27 imams were killed and 89 imams were wounded while 5 were kidnapped. In order to prevent the investments that aim to improve the infrastructure of the region and to render better services to the public; the related foundations and equipment have been sabotaged.

DIYARBAKIR, Turkey, Aug 12 (AFP) - 16h02 - Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan pledged Friday that the Kurdish conflict in Turkey would be resolved with "more democracy" despite a marked increase in violence by armed Kurdish rebels whom Ankara considers "terrorists." "I want you to know that there will be no going back from the point Turkey has come to... We will not allow any regression in the democracy process," Erdogan said in an emotional speech in this key city of Turkey’s mainly Kurdish southeast. "We will resolve all problems with more democracy, more civil rights and more prosperity," he said, frequently interrupted by applause from a crowd of some 1,000 people. In Arbil, northern Iraq, a senior Turkish Kurd rebel leader welcomed Erdogan’s statement, but said he wanted to see how this translates into action. "We believe Erdogan’s statements are significant," but what matters is what concrete actions will be taken on the ground, Zubeyir Aydar, head of KONGRA-GEL, a sub-group of the rebel Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), said in a statement received by AFP. Erdogan was seeking to allay concerns that a recent increase in attacks on military and civilian targets blamed on the PKK might prompt Ankara to introduce measures that would diminish the fragile freedoms the sizeable Kurdish minority has only recently gained. Keen to boost its bid to join the European Union, Ankara has ended 15 years of emergency rule in the southeast and allowed the Kurdish language to be taught at private courses and used in public television and radio broadcasts. The Kurdish conflict has claimed some 37,000 lives since 1984, when the PKK took up arms for Kurdish self-rule in the southeast, ravaging the meager infrastructure and the mainstays of farming in the region and forcing poor peasants to migrate en masse into urban slum areas. The brutal state response to PKK violence also led to gross human rights breaches on both sides and opened a wide confidence gap between Ankara and the Kurds, who make up about a fifth of the country’s 70-million population. The PKK, blacklisted as a terrorist group by Turkey, as well as the United States and the EU, has markedly stepped up violence over the past few months after calling off a five-year unilateral truce in June 2004 that had brought relative peace to the turbulent southeast. Erdogan’s visit in Diyarbakir took place under tight security, with some 3,000 security forces on duty across the city. Scores of policemen lined up on the road leading from the airport to the city center and snipers were seen positioned on rooftops along the prime minister’s route. Erdogan signalled that Ankara would not back down from military measures in the struggle against the PKK. "Terrorism and violence are the worst enemy of this country and they will never be tolerated," he said, vowing an "all-out unshakeable determination" to counter violence. Many Kurds complain that the government has not done enough to relieve their chronic poverty, but Erdogan made it clear that Ankara planned no industrial investments in the region, calling on local businessmen to take the initiative under a recently introduced scheme of incentives. Diyarbakir Mayor Osman Baydemir, a leading Kurdish politician, welcomed Erdogan’s promise for a democratic settlement of the Kurdish question. "I hope his pledges will lead to the opening of a new page" in Ankara’s ties with the Kurds, Baydemir told NTV television. "A new ground is required to ensure that the arms are silenced. My hopes in this direction were boosted today," he said. In his statement, Aydar said, "we also believe that a new page should be opened," but he noted that Erdogan failed to say whether the government was considering an end to military operations against the PKK. "He said nothing on issues that are important to us," Aydar said, alluding also to the solitary confinement of jailed PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan on a prison island in northwestern Turkey. The PKK, as well as many mainstream Kurdish politicians, have called for a general amnesty for PKK rebels that will ensure their participation in political life. They also demand that the Kurdish language be taught in public schools, that laws restricting Kurdish representation in parliament be repealed and that Kurdish localities given Turkish names revert to their former appelations.

Ocalan verdict puts Turkey under pressure 12/05/2005 Reuters - By Gareth Jones ANKARA (Reuters) - Europe’s top human rights court declared the 1999 trial of Kurdish rebel Abdullah Ocalan unfair on Thursday, pressuring Turkey to defy nationalist anger and order a retrial in support of its EU ambitions. Ankara signalled Ocalan could indeed be tried anew. But it moved quickly to assure Turks who revile him as a terrorist bent on dismembering their nation that he would not walk free. "Whether this dossier is reopened or not, the matter (of Ocalan’s guilt) is a closed one for the nation’s conscience," Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said during a trip to Hungary. The verdict from the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) raised fears of revived political tensions in Turkey at a delicate time as it tries to meet European Union standards on human rights before the start of EU entry talks in October. Ocalan, serving a life term for treason as sole inmate of an island prison near Istanbul, evokes strong emotions among Turks who blame him for the deaths of some 30,000 people in the 1980s and 1990s. He was sentenced to death in 1999 but capital punishment was revoked in 2002 as part of EU-inspired reforms. The powerful military, facing a recent increase in clashes with Ocalan followers, condemned the ECHR ruling as "political, not legal" -- echoing a widespread nationalist sentiment here that Europe is deliberately engineering problems for Turkey. As word of the Strasbourg court verdict came, television aired dramatic 1999 footage of moustachioed Ocalan blindfolded on a plane after his capture in Kenya by Turkish commandoes -- a scene which triggered euphoria and pride in Turkey at the time. Hoping to avert nationalist anger over the new legal twist, Justice Minister Cemil Cicek said: "We must be as cold-blooded as possible... This is not the end of the world... Our people must not be concerned (about the possible outcome of a retrial), they must trust the state and the judiciary." LONG PROCESS The ECHR verdict must still be approved by the Council of Europe, the continent’s top human rights watchdog. "This is a long process and we still have a great deal of time," Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said during a trip to Kiev. A panel of ECHR judges, reaching their verdict by 11 to 6, said in a statement that Ocalan had not had proper access to legal counsel or the facilities needed for his defence. "The applicant was not tried by an independent and impartial tribunal," they said. Ocalan was tried by a State Security Court -- a body set up to deal with crimes against the state which has now been disbanded in line with EU-inspired reforms. Dozens of Kurds cheered and chanted outside the ECHR under a banner declaring "Free Ocalan - Peace in Kurdistan". In Turkey too, Kurdish reaction was favourable. "I hope (this decision) will contribute to Turkey’s democratisation," said Osman Baydemir, mayor of Diyarbakir, the biggest city in Turkey’s mainly Kurdish southeast region. The European Commission, which will lead Turkey’s EU entry talks, welcomed the government’s calm response to the verdict but also underlined Ankara’s legal obligations. "The European Court of Human Rights is a core European institution and a fundamental implementor of human rights and the rule of law. It is evident Turkey will have to comply," said EU Enlargement Commissioner Ollie Rehn during a trip to Cyprus. A Commission spokesman in Brussels, asked whether the verdict might affect Turkey’s accession talks, said the EU would wait to see how Ankara implemented the ruling in practice. MILITARY IRKED Financial markets shrugged off the verdict, suggesting that the government’s reaction had struck the right balance in placating nationalists and Brussels officials. The centre-right government must show continued skill to stop the issue hampering EU entry talks and the foreign investment that could follow. But the Turkish military made clear its displeasure. "Nobody can expect an institution which gave thousands of martyrs (in the fight against separatism) to stay impartial," said General Ilker Basbug, deputy head of the General Staff. Liberal political analyst Dogu Ergil of Ankara University said he expected both Kurdish radicals and Turkish nationalists to try to exploit the ECHR verdict for their own ends. "The feeling in Turkey of being under siege by hostile international forces will increase a little bit more," he said.

Ocalan’s trial unfair, rules European Court of Human Rights 12/05/2005 KHRP Human rights lawyers are welcoming today’s decision of the highest panel of the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), confirming that the imposition of the death penalty on Abdullah Ocalan violated the prohibition on human and degrading treatment.[1] The judgment raises the prospect that Mr Ocalan will receive a retrial to compensate deficiencies in his original trial which led to the imposition of the death penalty, later commuted to a life sentence. Mr Ocalan has remained in solitary confinement as the sole prisoner on Imrali Island since 1999. In light of the case’s significance, the Grand Chamber took the exceptional step of proposing specific measures available to the Turkish Government to enable it to implement fully the terms of the judgment. In the specific context of such cases in Turkey’s state security courts, the Court declared, the most appropriate form of redress in principle would be for the applicant to be given a retrial without delay if s/he so requested. The Council of Europe’s Committee of Ministers will monitor any failure to implement the Court’s decision, safeguarding Ocalan from further violations to his human rights or fundamental freedoms. The decision, delivered this morning by the ECtHR’s Grand Chamber, confirms an earlier judgment of 18 March 2003 that capital punishment has now come to be regarded as “an unacceptable form of punishment” which “can no longer be seen as having any legitimate place in a democratic society”. It was held that the capital sentence imposed on Mr Ocalan must be considered, it itself, to amount to inhuman treatment. The Court also found that Mr Ocalan’s rights under Article 6 (right to a fair trial) of the Convention had been violated in several respects. The Court established that his rights under Article 5 (right to liberty and security) had been violated, stating that the length of his detention before being brought to a judge and the inability to challenge his detention at the domestic level violated both Article 5(3) and 5(4). On the basis of the numerous issues of general importance and serious questions affecting the interpretation of the Convention raised by the case, both the applicant’s representatives and the Turkish Government had requested that the case be referred to the Grand Chamber. Turkey’s approach to upholding this ruling will be seen by many as a test of its commitment to the universal applicability of basic human rights and fundamental freedoms for all, irrespective of ethnic or political status; a commitment that is critical to its aspirations of EU accession. Mark Muller, Advocate Representing Abdullah Ocalan, states, “This is one of the most significant cases to ever come before the European Court of Human Rights. We fully expect the international community to monitor Turkey’s compliance with the verdict, in light of the potentially enormous ramifications of the case. Above all, the judgment represents a chance for a measure of justice for a forgotten people and perhaps also the platform for a future reconciliation between Kurds and Turks alike.”

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/937516925

I agree and it is rather unfortunate that this problem will not be solved quickly. The Kurds really need some help though. They are oppressed not just in Turkey but in all the countries right around that region where Kurdistan should exist.

Hi Chris, I am afraid this problem will not be solved very quick. What has happend to the Kurds ( like for example whole villages burnt down and the ALL inhabitants killed, the constand fear of death and torture )and the killings and tortures what still continues,will not be smoothed by anything very quick. Governments do usually not relect the population and can manipulate in a lot of countries everything very well. For me personnally I like people no matter what nationality or group name and countrysides no matter from what nation,and I believe humanrights should be respected anywhere by everybody. As for any group of people who has been in a war (or are still in war)the concequences will live through the children and their children.The pain will form a piece of the society.

I see your reasoning and it's most definitely a problem that needs to be fixed ASAP. However, I hope you don't judge the actions of the government of Turkey as reflective of the population as a whole. I had the pleasure of living in Turkey, the city of Adana to be exact and the people were really very nice. The whole situation with the Kurds is actually kind of similar to the problem with Russia and Chechnya. The Kurds want autonomy and the Turks don't want to give them that. But I think that problem should be resolved before they are allowed into the European community.

They are planning to allow Turkey into the Europian community. To me that is very strange as Kurdish people still get killed and tortured there up to today.

Linda, Can you elaborate.

Why is it that they want to allow Turkey into the E.E.G whilst The Kurds (who represent an enormous amount of the population)Are still tortured and killed???