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 US only... March 08, 2005 1:59 PM

After some discussions in the group I'll try this. A group were only US citizens can post. This first one made by me is the only exception. And if it works out they way I hope, we'll use the stuff posted here making discussions in the other part of the group. So please speak up!! LL  [ send green star]
 
hooray! March 09, 2005 6:06 AM

i'd have to read back through all the posts to find the many, many things i've wanted to comment on. the one that sticks in my mind right off the bat, though, is monique reading 'a people's history of the united states' by howard zinn. what an excellent book! it's one i recommend time and again. i wish every citizen of usa would read it so they could get over the revisionist history we're taught in public schools in this country. another book he wrote which is also fabulous is 'declarations of independence.' thanks a lot for giving us usans a place here to respond to posts, lasse.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Celene March 10, 2005 7:56 AM

Am I allowed to post here? Referring to Howard Zinn, I found these descriptions of his books 'Against War' and 'Howard Zinn on Democratic Education' on the Amazon site, the first a book which cuts through the nationalistic hysteria preceding a war and the accompanying lies by the governments, the second about the inadequacies of the present standard and focus of education in the USA: ''Howard Zinn, having spent decades contrasting the rhetoric governments use to justify wars and the reality of their impact, especially on the civilians who are increasingly the victims of military conflicts, here provides his most up-to-date and provocative thinking on war, terrorism and the new global order. In this engaging collection of interviews, conducted since the tragic events of September 11 and the beginning of the intensive bombing campaign against Afghanistan, he explores the growth of the American empire alongside the long tradition of resistance to US militarism, arguing that the casualties of war include truth, civil liberties and human rights.'' http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1583224939/qid=1110468335/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_10_8/026-5452338-7142867 And, ''Perhaps no other historian has had a more profound and revolutionary impact on American education than Howard Zinn. This is the first book devoted to his views on education and its role in a democratic society. Howard Zinn on Democratic Education describes what is missing from school textbooks and in classrooms - and how we move beyond these deficiencies to improve student education. Critical skills of citizenship are insufficiently developed in schools, according to Zinn. Textbooks and curricula must be changed to transcend the recitation of received wisdom too common today in schools. In these respects, recent Bush Administration and educational policies of most previous US presidents have been on the wrong track in meeting educational needs. This book seeks to redefine national goals at a time when public debates over education have never been more polarised--nor higher in public visibility and contentious debate. Zinn's essays on education - many never before published--are framed in this book by a dialogue between Zinn and Donaldo Macedo, a distinguished critic of literacy and schooling, whose books with Paulo Freire, Noam Chomsky and other authors have received international acclaim.'' http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594510555/qid=1110468761/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_11_6/026-5452338-7142867 There is a general opinion that many US citizens tend to be shallow and self-absorbed because of the focus on personal image and outward beauty rather than substance of character and what one does with one's talents. But this is a problem that has seeped into many modern societies, a problem which is destroying the fabric of community, and the trust and happiness we feel around others. The man who has written a book about this precise sociological problem is called Zygmunt Bauman, and his work is called 'Liquid Love'. Although I have not as yet read it, I am confident that this fascinating man has written a book which many teenagers and adults alike should pick up and read. I teach young people and am thoroughly despondent as to the prevailing lack of connection with current events and world problems, their careless attitude towards how others are affected by their actions, and an insenstivity towards human rights. Television soap dramas and reality shows and 'pop idol' contests seem to hold more appeal to the next generation. What are we to do to spark an interest in them, for the other people in this world who live far from their borders and who are in desperate suffering and who lack the political and economic means to protect themselves from nations who kill and bully?  [ send green star]
 
spark interest March 11, 2005 6:22 AM

my vocation is hairstyling which gives me the privlege of having a captive audience, so to speak, for an hour at a time every working day. i recommend books, movies, newspapers, etc. to my clients all the time. a couple of days ago one of my clients suggested that i have a list that i can give out to people. i think i'm gonna do it. one of the reasons i so love my job is it affords me the opportunity to inform people a little more than they were before they came in and sat in my chair... have you read any of zinn's plays? he wrote 'marx in soho' and 'emma' both excellent. by the way, i do proofreading work for an award winning newspaper, the asheville global report. please check us out if you feel so inclined: http://www.agrnews.org  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
rachel corrie March 11, 2005 7:16 AM

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=2927&pst=103555 check out this thread on the outstanding women of character. it's something that starhawk wrote.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
define the term 'american' March 11, 2005 8:11 AM

monique suggested that folks come up with a new term for citizens of the united states of america. i refer to my country as usa and myself an usan. for years i've considered it arrogant that people in my country are called americans when this whole side of the world is the americas. oosah = usa  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Celene March 11, 2005 8:22 AM

Some good progressive stories in the Asheville...! Who owns the paper? 'Toxic Sludge is Good For You' is a book written by two journalists who talk about how the media is concentrated in the hands of a few big corporations whose interests often conflict with the public interest because they own other companies (which may or may not pollute or produce toxic products, or use PR hype to influence opinion and/or destroy grassroots activism) so that news gets ignored or censored in the long run, or the media is used as a vehicle to publicize the other companies owned and dressed up as 'news' and the public are none the wiser as to how they have been manipulated by corporate power. The Asheville site is well-designed too. So, what a fantastic way to keep in touch with the news! I did proofreading for this human rights group and tested their educational materials on CDROM: http://www.fahamu.org/ Starhawk wrote 'The Fifth Sacred Thing' which is on my bookshelf and is a part of the reading list of a humane education course at a US institute (see, do I boycott or not?) I wish to do, but it remains unread as yet. I am teaching full time at a really challenging college, and this limits my time and energy to read as extensively as before, unfortunately. Have you seen the books groups on Care2? Hair- mine is down to my navel and needs a trim. I always use scissors and probably need a stylist. My students complain that I don't brush my hair enough (or at all!)- how rude! I would visit your salon, but can't afford the plane fare. Plus I'm probably on the 'no fly list' for the USA, oh dear.  [ send green star]
 
monique March 11, 2005 8:33 AM

no one owns the asheville global report, it's all run by volunteers. there are a few people an occasionally changing cast of characters) who hold editor positions and make the decisions about the papers content for the week, but anyone can go to those meetings and have input. it comes out free every thursday in paper form and is usually online by thursday night. sometimes friday mornings, though... you know how it is when it's all volunteer. the faham site looks very interesting. are you teaching at one of the schools mentioned? i think the fifth sacred thing is an important book. it's one i include on my list of recommended reading. along with two other women, i once interviewed starhawk. we got her to come here and do some street activist trainings, a lecture and a spiral dance ritual a couple of years ago. i would love to tell you something she said about that book, but you have to read it first  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
bush urinal stickers March 11, 2005 8:45 AM

what a fantastic idea! i want 1000! i like that ms. onkelynx said: 'no, that's how i feel.' when she was asked if she was being undiplomatic for stating she'd rather be having a visit from kerry. politicians should stop apologizing for saying what they really believe about usa.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Books and politics March 12, 2005 8:22 AM

There is a man here in Oxford who compiles all the articles he finds about the US invasion and occupation of Iraq after careful research to validate their authenticity, then he prints them in a small newsletter format and gives them out free to peace groups and the Quaker centre. I have most of his editions and respect his commitment to democracy, peace and truth. Once I am paid at the end of the month, I will be sending him a donation because he finances this project himself and has to delay publications sometimes on the basis of lack of money. So I respect the Asheville and the people who give of their time. I believe I read somewhere that up to 50% of US citizens volunteer in some capacity- which is a good thing. I wish more people over in Britain would do the same. There is a copy of 'The Chalice and the Blade' by Riane Eisler at a local thrift shop. Have you read it and would you recommend this? I will have a closer look into Starhawk's wisdom, thank you, and will take a look at the link you posted.  [ send green star]
 
eisler March 12, 2005 8:27 AM

that book is fantastic! i think you'll like it a lot. i'd love to see the chapbooks made by the man in oxford. could you tell me his name? i have a friend studying for her phd at oxford so, she might be able to pick me up one or two of them...  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Bush doll March 12, 2005 8:30 AM

Wasn't there a Canadian politician who stomped on a Bush doll? I remember reading that somewhere and chuckling.  [ send green star]
 
Happy to mail them March 12, 2005 8:34 AM

I'd be happy to copy and mail them to you if you want. I do this for several people already. Or, you could ask your friend to pop along to the Quaker store on St Giles. The trouble with this is that there are several weeks which pass without a new edition being printed and the ninth one is still being organised. Or I could give the copies to your friend. Whichever is better for you. The man's name is Tony Moore and he lives in Oxford.  [ send green star]
 
International security group March 12, 2005 8:40 AM

Sorry- thought of this too. There is an Oxford-based international security group who send me free electronic newsletters. Anyone can join and receive them. http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk  [ send green star]
 
thanks monique March 12, 2005 8:46 AM

i signed up. i like this better anyway... no dead trees.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
The Wolf March 22, 2005 9:04 AM

Tony Moore's newletter about the shameful events of the Iraq invasion and occupation is called 'The Wolf' but unfortunately is not offered to readers online.  [ send green star]
 
 March 22, 2005 9:07 AM

The Oxford Research group's online newsletter is excellent, and you may like Fahamu's electronic newsletter concerning African news and issues- or someone you know may wish to join as it is free and a helpful resource for those who are doing research.  [ send green star]
 
monique March 29, 2005 8:57 PM

another author you might enjoy is michael parenti. i like many of his books. two i'll recommend are: inventing reality: the politics of news media - and - against empire. like zinn, parenti is also a history professor, somewhere in california i think. the links below are for a movie that came out kinda recently that i think you'll like if you can get your hands on it (it's rentalble). its' called 'the yes men.' i haven't seen it yet but i read an article about it. the following links are an interview and then a 'video' which'll give you an idea of the kind of things the yes men do. just fantastic! i laughed so hard when i read that first article about them 'cause of their audacity. http://www.indiewire.com/people/people_040930yesmen.html http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/06/1453248 the sorryeverybody site is so great. i had it bookmarked for a long time. some of the posts made me laugh so hard and some made me cry. one made me weep. it was something like #182 (i don't know if the order's still the same since the site was revamped a little). it was from luis in argentina and showed a picture of a man and a little girl. the text read something like: this is me and my little daughter victoria. it used to be cold here in the winter. there are glaciers to the south of me that are melting. (...some other bad stuff...) YOUR country refused to participate in the kyoto accord. YOUR country is starting needless wars around the world. YOUR country is killing thousands of innocent people. don't appologize. do something. inform your fellow citizens. (...something else...) how i wish i could've found a way to write to luis in argentina. i used to live in buenos aires... i want him to know that myself and many friends are wracking our brains trying to figure out -something- we can do. i want him to know that i'm amazed by how many of my fellow citizens are informed but, they're pacified by television and unwilling to make lifestyle choices that will affect change. they're unwilling to actually get up and DO something. it's horribley frustrating... infuriating!! o, and one other writer, derrick jensen. i am of the opinion he's the greatest thinker of our time. he's also a wonderful writer and so his great thoughts come through as if you were sitting down with him having a converstation. here are some good titles: a language older than words, culture of make-believe, strangely like war, walking on water. all VERY worth your time. he's also an adept interviewer and has a book called listening to the land. it's interviews with people from many different disciplines and backgrounds - biologists, poets, spiritual leaders, geologists, etc - about the state of the earth.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Some titles for you March 30, 2005 8:40 AM

Here is a link for the book list of the International Institute of Humane Education in Maine which you may find useful, and where Jensen is given a mention: http://www.iihed.org/books.html I also like to trawl university sites to see their book lists and the recommended lists by readers on Amazon. Parenti/Against Empire sounds familiar as I think I've seen a review on it somewhere. The 'Yes Men' film will be shown here soon, so I will keep an eye out for screenings. My favourite anecdote is at a conference where startled people were told that human faeces would be converted into food for the poor. Judging by what is served up in fast food joints, I think we've reached that stage already. I've seen 'The Corporation' documentary on how big companies exhibit classic psychopathic tendencies, and it contains a few of my favourite thinkers. 'The End of Suburbia' is another that people are talking about but one which I haven't seen. Much appreciated, Celene.  [ send green star]
 
i just have to April 12, 2005 6:01 PM

comment on the obesity thing. not all of us usans fall into the category described there. i make from scratch almost every single thing i eat. i don't own a car or a driver's license and i dont' want one. i ride a bicycle almost everywhere i go. i don't shop at fast food joints, i don't shop at cheap plastic %#&!*% stores, i don't participate in what is considered mainstream american culture. i know i'm in a minority but, i also know that there are more people than i who are outside the norm. on this thread alone, look at hippie dude and steve. they both have made lifestyle choices that are more in balance with life and consequently, keep them fitter 'n' trimmer than your average american. we're not all bad!!! help us escape!!!  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
another book May 16, 2005 7:06 AM

here's another you might enjoy, monique: the greatest story never told: a people's history of the american empire 1945 - 1999 by michael k. smith.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
ppl to get you going... May 16, 2005 7:11 AM

Bill Maher Al Franken Their views speak for sooooooooo many in the US. wendy wendy  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Simona has refused.. would you like to see why? October 15, 2005 12:52 PM

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=5939&pst=256052  [ send green star]  [ accepted] 		(Member Is Blocked)
 
 October 15, 2005 1:09 PM

So we have new group hosts huh?  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 October 15, 2005 1:14 PM

Oh, it was advertising another group.. is that allowed?  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Jennifer October 15, 2005 1:16 PM

How about getting yourself a nice little life or at least some kind of manners. Posting this group's posts some place else is not appropiate.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Pirjo October 15, 2005 1:28 PM

no. I'm issuing an invitation to you and your members, from another group, to join us in a debate. Though.. it is moderately odd that no one on here is grasping the concept.. I'm also trying to figure out why anyone would shy away from a debate such as this.. in favor of tossing around the same bashing technic over and over with ppl that are all of the same opinion. Sounds slightly boring to me. Instead of approaching this with an open minded point of view...myself.. and others are being repeatedly slammed for offering an ivitation to a civil debate of views. I'm begining to think that there's no one in here with a spine.  [ send green star]  [ accepted] 		(Member Is Blocked)
 
 October 15, 2005 1:44 PM

When one person has to critisize another peron's spelling it only proves that the one doing the critisizing has nothing construtive to say. All I have seen Simon and Simona (Isn't that cute?) post is stuff they have stolen from another site except of course when they are slamming one of us. For the record folks. I was born in Belgium and I hold dual citizenships.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Jennifer, October 15, 2005 4:10 PM

You were, in fact, posting another person's words, by posting the link to another topic. Nowhere in that post did the word "invitation" occur. If you don't get any takers on your group invitation, then so be it. Not everyone wants to try to convince the other side of their opinion. This doesn't make them "spineless," it makes them non-aggressive, and non-confrontational. Not everyone feels the need to fight, just so their views will be heard. People will not change their views because you get in their faces and tell them that they're wrong. That kind of change has to come from inside the person. The main people who will take you up for a debate really don't understand the concept of debate, anyway. They will not argue with facts, they will just continue to hold tight to their own strongly held opinions, not listening to anything the other side has to say. On the other hand, many people who DO like to fight, pick their fights carefully. Just because they don't want to fight with you or your group still does not make them "spineless." You've "advertised" for your group. Now wait for the RSVPs. Don't berate those who don't wish to partake in your group. That's no way to get people to want to be part of it, anyway. namaste, alex phoenix, az P.S. While I'm sure that she will be used forever in your minds as an example of "typical Americans," and I can't argue that she may well be, please know that she does not represent ALL of us. Many -- MANY -- know that our government is messed up. We didn't vote for Shrub, and are trying as we might to change this regime. Unfortunately, though, many others are getting beaten down into apathy. I'm sorry that I AM an American and I posted here. I just could not take this poster's abuse of everyone else any longer. I will refrain from posting further.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Ooops! Sorry! October 15, 2005 4:12 PM

I didn't realize which group the post was on that I was responding to. So, I AM allowed to post here! Hooray! Well, the rest of the previous post still stands. namaste, alex phoenix, az  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Celene and Monique, October 15, 2005 4:17 PM

It's so refreshing to see people discuss BOOKS! I've read Howard Zinn's book ("History of America"). I thought it was awesome! It was probably my first book that lead to my distrust and doubt of the USA's system. It was my "enlightenment" book! And, Celene, I love that you recommend books and movies to your clients. I wish you were nearer -- I'd love to have you cut my hair! all around! namaste, alex phoenix, az  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Alex October 15, 2005 5:07 PM

"You were, in fact, posting another person's words, by posting the link to another topic. Nowhere in that post did the word "invitation" occur." "Jennifer C. An Invitation to "How others think of the American way". 10:55 AM Please feel free to post your views and engage in a civil debate with others that would agree or disagree with you. "  [ send green star]  [ accepted] 		(Member Is Blocked)
 
Alex.. lets try that again.. October 15, 2005 5:08 PM

"You were, in fact, posting another person's words, by posting the link to another topic. Nowhere in that post did the word "invitation" occur." "Jennifer C. An Invitation to "How others think of the American way". 10:55 AM Please feel free to post your views and engage in a civil debate with others that would agree or disagree with you. "  [ send green star]  [ accepted] 		(Member Is Blocked)
 
hmm I guess my post isn't going to go through.. well that ok.. I'll post it somewhere else October 15, 2005 5:09 PM

so you can read it  [ send green star]  [ accepted] 		(Member Is Blocked)
 
Alex October 15, 2005 5:10 PM

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=5939&pst=256052  [ send green star]  [ accepted] 		(Member Is Blocked)
 
Jennifer, October 16, 2005 6:04 AM

I've looked all through this topic, and the first post you made only lists the link to your conversation with Simona in another thread. I stand by my statement that, nowhere in that post did you invite anyone anywhere. And, your next post expresses your disappointment with no one being able to understand that you're inviting them to another board. I tell you, it's confusing me! namaste, alex phoenix, az  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 November 11, 2005 5:16 AM

we are all living in AMERIKA AMERIKA AMERIKA(rammstein),gosh...are we now all ameri(k)ains ...hope not...so i shut up!lol...let them have a little U.S.interospection!pssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!........  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
anonymous A Moment of Perspective December 04, 2006 8:34 AM

Howaya, Because this subject has come up enough times in my time working in Ireland and now Spain, I now feel compelled to post my two pence because itīs important to me. Something Iīve heard all through my European adventure is constant, unrelenting American bashing. At the same time Iīve seen constant, unrelenting adoption of American business policies, similar xenophobic immigration policies, and consumer culture. With this in mind, may I offer some suggestions: - America is blamed for the downfall of Kyoto, while very few European countries live up to the Kyoto standards. Instead of blaming us for ruining to treaty, why not ratify it without us, live up to the environmental standards within it, and be a good example? Europe going ahead without US approval may be a kick in the pants to our cultural ego, and if the discrepancy between European and US environmental policy grows wide enough, we ( US ) will have to change our policy to regain face... weīre so used to being the Big Kid on the playground and having others obey us, we wonīt know what to do if you stop paying attention to us and live your own lives without us. In other words, donīt blame us, but do it anyways. - Consider focusing your criticisms on our government instead of our people, lest you become guilty of the same "Us vs. Them" prejudice that dominates American foreign policy. Many of our people are against the governmentīs actions and find our foreign policy abhorrent, and reaching out to them (instead of judging and alienating) can build some strong bridges. People who donīt know that thereīs a world beyond our borders simply need education, not condemnation. - Please stop criticizing us while adopting our culture. Instead consider shedding our culture, our movies, our music, our fashion, our consumerism, our insane pace of living, our rampant suburban development, our globalized companies, and return to your previous way of living. Quit your job at an American globalized corporation, boycott all products from these American globalized corporations, and see what is left once that is gone. Itīs not just us - weīre all involved in this amazing mess. If you donīt support the system, it will fall. Iīm sorry if this comes out a bit more bitter and twisted than I intended. Iīm just tired of apologizing for my national identity while I see Europe making the same damn mistakes... I truly came here expecting to see a more enlightened government, and instead find a polished version of the same garbage. Come on people! You know that itīs wrong, so just donīt do it! I mean, really - wake up! If we can get the focus off the symptom (American foreign policy, consumerism, poor education, et al) maybe we can start looking for the cultural cause underneath it all. After all, this is nothing new, just another form of outdated tribal mentality and imperialism. Before the US it was Englandīs empire. Before England it was Romeīs empire. Before Rome it was countless other tribes with the same mentality, and unless that changes China will simply do the same thing after us, and then someone after them, on and on until it all falls down. Stand for something, instead of pointing a finger, and the world will change... spoken like an American idealist. Peace (underneath the spikes)  [report anonymous abuse]  [ accepted]
 
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