Enjoying this group!

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Hi Everybody,

I haven't posted here yet, but I am a new memberand wanted to introduce myself.  

For many years, I just went along with "official policy" that we are historically Isreal's ally and have to take her side and support her militarily, blah,blah,blah. I didn't think about it much. Then, my sister married a Palestinian who was the sweetest man! He told me that his family lived in Palestine and went to Lebanon on vacation, and while they were gone Israel invaded and took everything and they were stuck in Lebanon, their home and possessions gone. This happened because Israel thinks they have a mandate from God to take these areas. I began to look at it in another way. Before 1947, there was no Jewish homeland. (I'm not saying they don't deserve one, but people were already living in the area they chose) Most of them were Arabs and Muslims. Who couldn't see a recipe for disaster? And now we have Hillary C. stating she will"obliterate" Iran if they attack Israel. My opinion is that Israel is the heart of the whole middle east situation, and it's not really their land! And just fot the record, I am not anti-semite and when I talk about Israel I mean the Zionist government, not any individual. Thanks for this group!

Best, Mairead

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Hello all!  I read this thread and I am thrilled to join this group!

Thanks for the invite Sunshine!  I became interested in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict since a a couple of months after the shameful US invasion of Iraq.  It is the Palestinian Ambassador in Canada who made me aware about what was going on in Occupied Palestine.

I joined several anti-zionist groups on Yahoo and left whenever I would realize they were getting infiltrated by Zionists.  Amazing how they infiltrate everywhere!  I have been called "incendiary", "inflammatory", "ignorant" and of course, "anti-semitic".  The last one always gives me a chuckle because Ashkenazi Jews are not semitic at all, being of Khazar origin.  They are caucasians! 

I was not preaching violence.  I don't believe in violence in any form.  What I do believe could work would be a global boycott of all Israeli products, and a global walkout from the people who are enslaved in jobs and credit debts by the "elite".  We just don't realize our power...  We are 6 billion people on this planet and the "handlers" of all kind all together are not a very big bunch.  What would happen if everyone, including the military of course, would squarely refuse to obey orders and give this bunch any service, including power, gaz, groceries, etc... and would make all this only available to the citizens? 

The more we can make people aware than the Palestinians are the victims and the Zionists the real terrorists along with their allies, the more people will join us in protest of the Zionist regime...

Sorry to go on like this... blah-blah-blah...  I have a hard time to stop when I start on this issue...

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Hi joined recently but haven't spoken yet.  I want to learn more so that I can argue properly with people on behalf of Palestine. Definitely not an expert on the finer issues, but feel strongly about what's happening to the people of Palestine as it is deeply wrong.  I know that what I see on commercial television is clearly biased.  I don't know how an objective person can look and not see that what Israel is doing is wrong- basically it looks to me that they are committing genocide, being paid for it and blaming Palestine for getting upset about it.  I think its called 'wagging the dog'. Am not as informed as I would like to be about the politics, but I do know about the Israeli soldiers making palestinian people drink their urine and other more hideous things, just so they can cross checkpoints and go to work to support their families (*%^@# !!).
When I lived in Australia, I followed the issues on a non-commercial multi-cultural channel called SBS, but now living in England and don't get the same coverage.  So I don't really know what's been going on since Hamas came into power (can hopefully learn more here).  I loved Yassir and think the way he was driven into exile and death is vile. A lot of people forget he was once awarded a nobel peace prize.  I would not only like to learn more about all this but also do what I can about it.
Rebecca

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I just wandering around and I saw you decent people, I hope it is ok but it is a subject very close to my heart!

love n peace  

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It is a great relief that there is a place where one can speak out against the genocidal actions of the Israeli government without being labeled as anti-simetic. Like most Americans, I never looked into the situation in Israel until just recently. We are led to beleive that Israel was not so much created as a home for Jews, but mearly recoginsed, and that they had been living there all along, and that there has 'always been fighting in the Middle East'. Upon looking into the situation deeper, I was appaled, as my husband put it.. "The cause of the fighting is obvious, Where's Palastine?" And the fact that the American Government is sending Isreal 3 billion dollars of 'aid' each year, which they in turn spend on weapons from the U.S., many of which are considered weapons of mass destruction by all other governments. Just, Grrrr.

Ok thats my rant, thank you for letting me vent.

I hope to make a posative contribution to this group, I am sure that together we can figure out little things we can do to start spreading the awareness.    

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I forgot who invited me to this group, but thank you. It is refreshing to see so many people understand the dynamics of Israeli/Palestinian politics in its true light. Most of the time, we don't see the dark side of Israel and its true agenda, which is racist in nature, and so the Palestinians are left to suffer in silence because the world is blinded and deafened by pro-Israeli propaganda. I think that the horrendous way that Palestinians and Muslims in general are treated is what propelled me to find out about Islam, and to eventually embrace Islam as my religion. This was the best decision I have ever made in my life.

There are so many, many people out there who spread lies about Islam, the Palestinians, Arabs... It becomes increasingly difficult to swim through the murky waters of misinformation, but there is a reliable organisation where a person can learn more about Islam:

http://www.aicp.org/

I hope to contribute a great deal and learn a great deal during my time with this group.

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My feelings about Palestine and Israel are summed up by scripture. It's similar to a decision that King Solomon made about two women fighting over a child.

1st Kings, Chapter 3, Verse 24 to 28:

And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king.

And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other.

Then spake the woman whose the living child [was] unto the king, for her bowels yearned upon her son, and she said, O my lord, give her the living child, and in no wise slay it. But the other said, Let it be neither mine nor thine, [but] divide [it].

Then the king answered and said, Give her (The woman who said not to kill the baby...of course.) the living child, and in no wise slay it: she [is] the mother thereof.

And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God [was] in him, to do judgment.

So, since Israel kills, I would say it is compared to the cold hearted woman who would kill an innocent child. Therefore, I would tell the Zionists to go to...never mind, we all know what will happen to them. They will remain in their uncivilized state and never see peace, only the gnashing of teeth and the smell of sulfur and decay. What must it be like to feel such hatred?

They need a little more OMMMMMMMMM-ing and a lot less bombing.

Love & Peace,

MZ

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First we have Red and now we have Blue.

Sorry to get on your case Blue, but you will forgive me for being skeptical.

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Hello,

I am new to the care2 site, looking forward to meeting and chatting with everyone, I am going to look through the group posts, have a lot of reading to do.

Dave

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Red G.

Is there a reason why you're posting this list of the banned from HRN all over this group?

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Hello Che, thank you for the invite to the group

Earth

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Alsalam alikoum  Mohammed.

And welcome to the group my friend.

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Thanks for the good article but it is unfinished would you please post rest of it .It is very important to give more information  specially to western people.Thanks again

Love and peace

Mehr

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By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern Lebanon?  Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out.  Israel then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers.  That way there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.

Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by Israel’s attacks on civilian residential districts are children?  That is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for the UN.  He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all the bridges and roads.  Considering how often (almost always) Israel misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones, one might think that Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.  Don’t be surprised at US complicity.  Why would the puppet be any less evil than the puppet master?

Of course, you don’t know these things, because the US print and TV media do not report them.

Because Bush is so proud of himself, you do know that he has blocked every effort to stop the Israeli slaughter of Lebanese civilians.  Bush has told the UN “NO.”  Bush has told the European Community “NO.”  Bush has told the pro-American Lebanese prime minister “NO.”  Twice.  Bush is very proud of his firmness.  He is enjoying Israel’s rampage and wishes he could do the same thing in Iraq.

Does it make you a Proud American that “your” president gave Israel the green light to drop bombs on convoys of villagers fleeing from Israeli shelling, on residential neighborhoods in the capital of Beirut and throughout Lebanon, on hospitals, on power plants, on food production and storage, on ports, on civilian airports, on bridges, on roads, on every piece of infrastructure on which civilized life depends?  Are you a Proud American?  Or are you an Israeli puppet?

On July 20, “your” House of Representatives voted 410-8 in favor of Israel’s massive war crimes in Lebanon.  Not content with making every American complicit in war crimes, “your” House of Representatives, according to the Associated Press, also “condemns enemies of the Jewish state.”

Who are the “enemies of the Jewish state”?

They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish state, whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state.  They are Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only.  They are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant Zionist “settlers” under the protection of the Israeli army who beat and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns.  They are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes because they will be murdered by Israeli “settlers.”

The Palestinians who confront Israeli evil are called “terrorists.”  When Bush forced free elections on Palestine, the people voted for Hamas.  Hamas is the organization that has stood up to the Jewish state.  This means, of course, that Hamas is evil, anti-semitic, un-American and terrorist.  The US and Israel responded by cutting off all funds to the new government.  Democracy is permitted only if it produces the results Bush and Israel want.

Israelis never practice terror.  Only those who are in Israel’s way are terrorists.

Another enemy of the Jewish state is Hizbollah.  Hizbollah is a militia of Shia Muslims created  in 1982 when Israel first invaded Lebanon.  During this invasion the great moral Jewish state arranged for the murder of refugees in refugee camps.  The result of Israel’s atrocities was Hizbollah, which fought the Israeli army, defeated it, and drove it, with its tail between its legs, out of Lebanon.  Today Hizbollah not only defends southern Lebanon but also provides social services such as orphanages and medical care.

To cut to the chase, the enemies of the Jewish state are any Muslim country not ruled by an American puppet friendly to Israel.  Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the oil emirates have sided with Israel against their own kind, because they are dependent either on American money or on American protection from their own people.  Sooner or later these totally corrupt governments that do not represent the people they rule will be overthrown.  It is only a matter of time.

Indeed Bush and Israel may be hastening the process in their frantic effort to overthrow the governments of Syria and Iran.  Both governments have more popular support than Bush has, but the Whit  [ send green star]  [ accepted]

My thanks to you Che, for inviting me.

There are two sides to every story: I'm hoping to find unbiased information that will help in understanding  this crucially important issue.

May Peace and Justice come to the Middle East!!

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Thank you Che for the invitation.

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THIS situation won't go away UNTIL they are able to feel that they are respected AND heard!

THE AWEFULNESS of our countries OWN civil rights CRAP did not LESSEN, until that community FELT heard!

THE SAME GOES FOR:  the gay community AND MY disABLED community!

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I am glad to know such understanding people here.If any one of you have any possibility to show ducumentaries or some articles about Israel I guess Iran Tv can help you  specially if they get that you want to promote the truth in the western lands.

Dearst Friends Iranians are not Arabs

They are aryans our race is different . Most of Iranians are shiite muslims which are different with arabs.Even arab people do not follow our beliefs  and our culture is entirely different.

In despite of all these ,Iranians are the great difenders of palestinian rights in middle east.I wish all of  you can understand that Iran has  not any benefits in palestine even Iran has  not any common borders with it .What Iranian medias say is impartial.

Peace for all

Mehr Iranmehr

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  I joined this group because I want Palestine to survive.

and Good Night!!!

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Che, thank you.  I joined the group because I feel that there is an abundance of insight and a variety of perspectives here. I don't feel very knowledgable yet, but I'm trying to educate myself so I can become an articulate voice in my community.  

Mehr, although I am not a filmmaker,  I do want very much to use my creative abilities to promote the truth.  I really appreciate the link you shared because I have found many compelling articles there already. 

Peace to all of you,

Sandra

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I used to support Israel because I am so against anti-Semitism....but two wrongs do not make a right, and the attacks Israel is making against Lebanon because of Hezebollah are WRONG! It is Lebanese civilians who are suffering the most now, not the anti-Israeli terrorists!

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I am glad to know that you are an artist and make ducumentaries .You can contact Iran's TV perhaps they can help you too.Please check this.http://www.irib.ir

and please promote the truth.

Peace :

Mehr Iranmehr

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Welcome and I hope to hear some of your knowledge.  please feel free to post whatever you wish in this group. 

I believe the more people learn, the more they will understand.  Although most of us in here are in compliance, there's always people who are in here just to see how bad we are behaving and complain to care2 about it.  So there are people to be converted.

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Hello, and thank you for all you do. I am here to learn everything I can in this excellent international community.  I'm also seeking creative ways to raise awareness of the exile and abuse of the Palestinian people. I think that education, dialogue, and multi-cultural alliances are greatly needed.  That's what I love about Care2.

I have been starting discussions wherever I can...at work, coffeehouses, restaurants, gatherings, in the hopes that someone will want to know more. I am collecting Palestinian films and documentaries to view, share, and discuss with anyone who is interested.  I am a visual artist and a writer, so perhaps I can use these abilities in some way too.  I would love to hear your ideas.

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Thanks a lot for invitation.Iranian people have been always defender of humen right in all of their history from ancient time and can not stand such a violence , cruelrty, racism and slaughter.If Jew people pretend that western  Fascism persecute them and slaghtered  them it is not eastern muslims fault they can go and take vengeance from weastern fascist lands and ask them to give jews a part of their land and let them live there freely. why they dodn't ask it from their friend USA or Germany to accept them and give them  a free state to live there.

Peace to all

Mehr Iranmehr

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Hey Che, thanks for the invite, you seem  to have a lot of politically intelligent people here. Unfortunately I am not. Most of my knowledge comes from the friends I meet,That have already immigrated here.

Our friend from Palestine, worked with my husband for a while, he was here with his wife & children. (it was he that explained the problems in his country), For reasons only know to him, he said there were problems with his family & he had to return to Palestine. Che, that was 6 years ago, and nobody has heard from his since.

That was my wake up call, Here to help any way I can, Friends Lyn

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Hola

Awesome Group.

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Hola

Awesome Group.

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great posts here but lets not forget that you cannot just blame just one side here, both sides have equal responsibilities. ok..lets say israelies or jews invaded your land, all your response has to be children throwing stones or suicide bombers? where are the men to figth?...lets remember Arafat whom i see as one of the reasons of why the problem is never solved, he hide himself behind a bunch of men and children when he was surrendered...he was saved by the help of western countries...a war for freedom can be won like this? ridicilous.

suicide bombers....who are they and why they choose to be one? they are all poor people who hasd no jobs no homes and no future. they just accept this cos some people poison them with nonsense religious stuff and promise to take care of their family. if you dont have a future..does it matter you die today of tomorrow?

how many soldiers they killed by suicide bombings?..how many tanks they destroyed?...you wait for your lover in a cafe or you are in a bus to meet your lover and suddenly your gone...for what? Palestanian leaders will draw the attention to the Israeli occupation...

this is not a simple issue, we gotta go back to the beginning of the century and examine the region and the aims of the great powers of the world about it. we gotta work on the Arab life way of understanding here, life of an individual to the behaviours of the community.

even freedom wont solve the problems, it'll make it worse

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Hello, thank you for inviting me.

Sonja 

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great intros.

Maybe you could post them as new threads so they don't get lost in the shuffle.

Thanks.

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Oops, I just noticed a couple of mistakes I made (Even perfect people make mistakes )

"I am in favour of FIRST, a 2 nation plan: where Israel withdraws its brutal and oppressive, racist and imperialist military out of what is left of Palestine - and allowing all Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and land (which implies that the many Israeli people who are living on stolen land must leave) - and/or ample compensation - including arrangements for citizenship in a nation of the refugees' choice."

That part in italics should read: many Israeli people who are living on stolen land must leave that particular plot of land (to allow the Palestinian family/people who lived there to return) - I don't mean that the people living on stolen plots of land must leave Palestine/Israel altogether. They can live somewhere else in Israel/Palestine.

"I heard that Israeli law prohibits Palestinians marrying with Israelis. If this is true, then this is part of this first stage - the 2 nation plan."

I meant to say more about that. Part of the first stage should include the ending of discrimination to any people in Palestine/ Israel - e.g. laws that prevent marriage between "Israelis" and "Palestinians" must be ended.

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Arabs and Israelis can negotiate peace. They have done it many times before. Egypt and Israel negotiated peace. A significant number of Palestinian Arabs and Israelis are involved together in peace activism projects.

As for "Arabs selling land to Jews", I want to put this in the context of the big picture. Most Palestinian Arabs who left their homes did so without any compensation. Millions of Palestinian Arabs are now refugees - they left their homes without compensation because if they did not they would be killed by the Israeli Jews (or they feared being killed by the Israeli Jews), and many of them had their homes destroyed by Israeli Jews.

I am in favour of FIRST, a 2 nation plan: where Israel withdraws its brutal and oppressive, racist and imperialist military out of what is left of Palestine - and allowing all Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and land (which implies that the many Israeli people who are living on stolen land must leave) - and/or ample compensation - including arrangements for citizenship in a nation of the refugees' choice.

I heard that Israeli law prohibits Palestinians marrying with Israelis. If this is true, then this is part of this first stage - the 2 nation plan.

Also, as Israel now encourages Jews to immigrate to Israel (through a blatantly colonial policy), there must be a new policy that does not discriminate between Jews and Arabs, including in immigration policy.

And SECOND: Slowly, with much reconciliation, the whole of Palestine is restored to its original integrity, with all current citizens and refugees being allowed to return/live there as citizens of the new nation. I think that this is especially important, to give back Palestinians the land and sovereignty that was once theirs. Right now, Palestinians have been pushed onto the worst land, by the Israelis (who have stolen the best land), and the Israelis have diverted and stolen water from Palestine, stolen the best capital, towns and cities from Palestine, and destroyed much of the infrastructure of what remains of Palestine - so that, while Israel is rich, Palestine has one of the worst economies in the world.

Palestinian people are desperately poor and there is about a 50% unemployment rate in Palestine - and much of the income of the people of Palestine comes from the lucky few Palestinians who commute to work in Israel, exploited in Israel's worst jobs, making some rich Israeli people richer.

With this desperate and hopeless situation, with such humiliation and so little to lose, is it not easy to understand why so many Palestinian people are quick to hit back at Israeli people? I am not saying that it is "right" or "ok" or "justified" to be violent. But I am saying that, for anyone (of any ethnicity) who is forced to endure the same experiences, it is an understandable and common reaction. Therefore, let us not not demonize them. Let us instead CHANGE THE SITUATION, to end the violence. Let us give them hope, compensation, a right to return, rebuild their ecnomy, make reconciliation programs, etc..

With a change of situation (including reconciliation), and enough time, peace is much easier to achieve. It is not realistic to expect that we can make lasting peace between all of Palestine and Israel while the circumstances remain the same! That is like waving your arms around and expecting to fly. It is an expectation that ignores all prior evidence. Throughout history, lasting peace has always required a significant change in circumstances.

Oppression has always resulted in violent uprisings - because oppression relies on violence, and human beings have never suffered the lash too long without hitting back, have never been willing to be slaves for too long without trying to break free. Anger is a normal reaction in such circumstances, as is violence - but, as I said before, they are not "justified". And as individuals, we can choose how we react. But to expect everyone to choose peace is like buying a single lottery ticket and expecting to win the lottery. If we are to stop the violence, then, to be we can only realistically expect to succeed if the oppressors stop their oppression.

If Jews want to live there as "returned people" or whatever, they have no right to dominate the people who were born there (or whose parents or grandparents were refugees from Palestine) as they are doing now. Nor do Palestinian people have a right to dominate Jewish people who are in Israel now. All people should have equal rights in Palestine. They can call it "Palestine-Israel", or "Israel-Palestine", or whatever, to be fair to all

Even if Jewish people try to use racist ideas of "a promised land", we now know, with recent archaeological evidence, that Palestinian people not identifying as "Jews" ( e.g. "Canaanites") have lived in this area as long as people who identify as "Jews".

We know know from archaeological evidence, that Canaanites and Jews were one and the same, apart from religion. Some Canaanites chose Judaism and some did not. Some chose to form LITTLE nations "Judah" and "Israel", (which never even extended over all of Paestine), some did not. We now know that much of the Old Testament is exaggeration for ancient political effect.

In summary, beliefs do not justify being oppressive or violent to anyone. Let's find a solution that is fair to all parties.

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Hi, why don't you share your view about the Palestinian question.  Do you think Palestine should exist as a country just as Israel does?  If so, should there be any restrictions?  Who should set the boundaries?

I am here in defense of the Palestinian people becoming free from their current slavery.  I want 2 nations to exist peacefully next to each other.  Most people in both nations feel the same way.  So why all these problems?

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