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A new kind of fascism
Jan 4, 2009

I made this blog, because this is the most important topic where Care2 should reflect upon. It's a comment I gave on one of the many stories about Israel and Palestine.

Just to give some examples of the new kind of fascism that's rising among us.
Amsterdam: An anti-Israel protest with Palestinian flaggs, Hezzbollah, flaggs and Hamas flaggs. Scanting of Hamas, Hamas, jews on the gas.

One brave Jewish-Christian priest who dared to come to the protest with an Israeli flag and giving out pro-Israeli information.

The man was overshouted by the agressive intolerant crowd of protestors FOR Human Rights and freedom for Palestinians.
The guy was theatened and screamed at and the police needed to step in to protect him from being molested by the crowd.

The flag was stolen and trampled on.

Is this the freedom and Human Rights we like?

Just one MP of the pro-Palestinian case tried to cool the situation down. No one wanted to nuance, or debate the question.
Perhaps also 'friendly' activists were among the crowd, someone like you people, but they did not intervene. They did not stand up for the human rights of this single priest.
What can you expect from such crowd?

Next example: Antwerpen
The AEL (Arab European League) organised a protest march against Israels violence.
At the end of the protest, several protesters moved to the jewish district of town a few miles walk.
The police had to step in to protect the jews from being harmed by the 'good willing' Human Rights protestors.

This is the new fascism. Churchil warned us that the new fascists would be anti-fascists. Now I understand what he meant with that.

Where are the people confronting the fascism in their own groups???
Where are the people who call their friends to restrain in voilent resistance?

This goes from animal wellfare groups like ALF burning cars from directors of Euronext (the stock market). To activists sending death threats to the opposition. To the murders in Holland from Pim Fortuin and Theo van Gogh.
And all that is said by the 'good willing' activists is that they don't condone violence, BUT...this priest is stupid to express his opinion over there...Pim Fortuin, Theo van Gogh and others who are still alive, but live under protection, are racists and animal haters.

How blind can you be?!

How far does this need to go before someone sees the log in their own eye???

It's frightening what's going on and where friends accuse me and others to MUST hate the innocent victims made by Israeli bombs.

WAKE UP!!! PLEASE.

Sometimes I questioned myself if I was radicalising, speaking up for Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and other controversial people. Stepping up for their freedom to express themselves without being threatened, villified, abused, or killed.

Now I can say: ' I'm not radicalising.'

Are You?
Visibility: Everyone
Posted: Sunday January 4, 2009, 1:41 am
Tags: human israel rights jews gaza hamas [add/edit tags]

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Sasha Rockbottom (212) 		Sunday January 4, 2009, 2:53 am
Violence breeds more violence. Always did, always will. Until we decide to stop being violent, nothing will ever change. And propaganda by deed does not work in this post 9/11 world.
PEACE!

Dagmar MamaBear (477) 		Sunday January 4, 2009, 7:00 am
it is in us - the work must be done there - as long as we are bond in dualism and think that there is something tofight against - an enemy outside , we will sooner or later end up in fascism , because as good as an "idea" might be , if it is not inclusive but exclusive it will give birth to fascism on the long run ( as for e.g. vegetarinism , and every other ism)
We are AllOne

Rodger Ricketts (52) 		Sunday January 4, 2009, 10:52 am
Marc,
let's begin with agreeing in not using terms that are epithet which is like name calling. I refer to your use of Nazism to describe behaviors that are nasty. I include a small section from Wikipedia to show what I am talking about.
--------------------------------------------------
Some have argued that the term fascist has become hopelessly vague over the years and that it has become little more than a pejorative epithet. George Orwell wrote in 1944:

The word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. – George Orwell, What is Fascism?. 1944.[46]

Richard Griffiths argued in 2005 that the term fascism is the "most misused, and over-used word of our times".
---------------------------------------------defination:Fascism is an authoritarian nationalist ideology focused on solving economic, political, and social problems that its supporters see as causing national decline or decadence.
----------------------------------------------
So I agree that violence to others is bad and should be condemned. But name calling never helps resolve conflict.
ciao,
Rodger

Freediver OzPolitic com (196) 		Sunday January 4, 2009, 10:05 pm
I started a new group on Islam:

http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/islam_and_the_west

http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/islam_and_the_west

Yvonne White (136) 		Monday January 5, 2009, 8:21 pm
Israeli Reich-wingers are doing harm to Israel with their arrogance & violence (Fascism is State-run, Palestinians have no State - so sorry, they can't be Fascists), just as Bu$h-League Reich-wingers have done to the USA. Innocent citizens are paying the price.. we Finally are getting rid of Our War-mongering Bu$h-Leaguers, Israel would be wise to do the same. It's the 21st Century AD., you'd think Everyone could TRY Talking instead of Killing for a while!:(

Diana Trimble (5) 		Tuesday January 6, 2009, 8:51 am
I have to say I totally agree with you and am glad you made this post. There is a frightening lack of open debate amongst activists on this and many other issues. I don't mind your use of the word fascism - it's a technical point to say that a Stateless people can't be fascist because it's a function of a state - nonsense, fascism could equally accurately (at this point in history) be a descriptive of a state of mind or attitude. I've heard the same argument used to claim that American blacks "can't" be racist because racism is institional and so therefore can't be applied to the underdog in the equasion. This is nonsense. Black people in America are allowed to make fun of and even say they hate white people, but try it the other way around! Yes, I realise that it used to be the order of the day - but if it was decided that it wasn't right when the white ruling class did it, why is it now OK when the black underclass does it? By the way, I'm saying this as a mixed-race person so just for the record, I couldn't care less about racial identity. I mean, let's take for example the American comedy movie "White Chicks" in which a couple of black actors in heavy prosthetics and make up pretend to be white women. If you had two white actors doing the same thing in a movie called "Black Chicks" there would be riots in the streets.
This defnition of fascism by Robert Paxton would seem to apply equally to Zionists and Islamists: "A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion." More on intolerance of debate: Just the other day, I was talking with some people who'd just come back from an Israel protest in Brighton and we started discussing the guy who threw his shoes at Bush. I was making the point that I found it an interesting legal conundrum that the guy and his lawyers were using "freedom of expression" laws to cover his actions that were motivated by protesting the US occupation, when the very concept only existed in Iraqi law because of it! Although I was and am against the war in Iraq, it has to be said that anyone throwing their shoes at Saddam Hussein would have had no such defense available, and would probably have been sadistically tortured and killed along with his entire family for doing such a thing. From this, the person I was speaking with concluded that I was saying that Iraqi's now have more freedom than they had before. He became incredibly angry and was really almost shouting at me. I had to insist that this was not what I was saying! What I AM saying is that I am not going to allow my outrage at things such as the US led war in Iraq to turn me into an apologist for Islamists! To hear some of these people speaking now, you'd think that Saddam Hussein was a cuddly teddy bear. Whatever happened to "two wrongs don't make a right"? As for the Israel-Palestine situation, it is increasingly dangerous to even suggest that you might have some sympathy for the Israeli point of view.
I have always had a lot more sympathy for the Palestinians than the Israelis but when I went to a small protest outside the embassy in London on New Year's day, I found myself really wanting to keep a distance from the British Muslim group of activists because they were behaving kind of like a deranged mob1 They were scary and burning flags and shouting "bomb Tel Aviv" and "down with Israel." My point in showing up and making a sign was to cast light on the issue of creating safe places for civilians in times of conflict - I do not weigh in on the specifics because it's just way too complicated of an issue.
It's very sticky. I also think that Geert Wilders makes lots of good points. Nowadays everything critical one might say about Islam is immediately turned into an accusation of racism. So the Jewish people haven't cornered the market on this kind of suppression of free speech!
If I do not believe in Zionism, this does not make me anti-semitic.
If it makes my skin crawl to see women in London, the most sophisticated and international modern city in the West, dressed in Burkas - does this mean I am racist? NO! But it does mean that I don't want to see hard-won Western gains in gender equality stuffed under the rug as we scramble all over ourselves trying to accommodate alien cultures with medieval views. We are always hearing about "moderate Muslims" - but I never seem to hear anything from them when teenage rape victims are stoned to death, or people freak out and kill because of a dumb cartoon, or when people on a peace march suddenly find themselves surrounded by Hezbollah flags - as has happened to me!
So keep on saying the unpopular things you're saying, because you are right!
Best wishes

Atlasa S. (0) 		Wednesday January 7, 2009, 10:34 pm
I completely agree with you - in fact, I am surprised that people in the West and Europe do not open their eyes and see the BIG PICTURE! I'm a Canadian citizen - having migrated to Toronto from the Middle East. As an immigrant (and visible minority at that) I want to integrate and cherish the values of my country - the work ethic, the democratic ideals, the equality and opportunities - I DO NOT want my chosen country of migration to bend over backwards for other cultures in the name of 'multiculturalism' and 'tolerance'. You see, ALL cultures are NOT equal - any culture - whether it is influenced by religion or society - that believes it is ok to rape young girls (and call it marriage), stone women to death for 'adultery', deny education for women, believe that suicide bombings can be justified, and can support the assassinations of artists and writers who dare to disagree with them - any such 'culture' cannot be and should not be recognized.

I feel very sorry for the Isrealis, having to deal with such a culture on a daily basis. Unfortunately, it seems like Canada, the US and most of Europe will have to start to learn how to deal with this menace as well ... sigh

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