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Oct 21, 2009

The Realm of Abortion?

I did not address abortion and its legality in the HealthCare Program for a number of reasons.
1. I do not think it should be covered in the general program as there is/should be knowledge about how one gets pregnant, birth control, and similar. I know I did not address birth control in it so that is a good question - the answer would be that yes I believe it should be included as part of the fee. I have added that as a comment to the blog at:
2. We do not have definitive, unquestionable, completely scientifically proven, and exact date/moment of the start of life that applies 100% of the time. As such there are always going to be arguments on the subject matter, a lot of faith/spirituality/religion based complications, and more decisiveness than not.
3. I do think that we should be able to come together and decide that such things as late term abortions - say a definition of 22weeks pregnant or later should be illegal except in cases where mother WILL die prior/during the birth of the child. Beyond this form of abortion I do not think that much will be able to be agreed upon and compromises made easily or fairly. As such I dont think it has a role in the general medical program.
4. Overall due to the above I think that the only coverage by the program ought to be in forms of education and prevention (birth control, etc). Beyond that have additional insurance programs a person can join if they want to have that ability or similar.

Overall regarding abortion I tend to think along the following lines still:
SO ON ABORTION: (Taken from previous blogs of mine, still deals with legal views, etc)
What a heavy topic right?
No matter what the view there is a way to be against it, come up with reasons on the other side that are valid, and yet it is an area that matters to every person.

Where am I?
I am pro-choice but tend to stand near an anti-abortion stance.

Wait, what is that? How can you be both pro-choice and anti-abortion?
And for that matter when does life begin then since part of the debate depends on abortion being or not-being the murder of an innocent life.

I believe that every person has the right to a choice and above that the right to voice (non-violently) their opinion.

However as for the main areas....

When does life begin? Yes my religious background, my years getting a degree with many courses on biomedical ethics, and life experiences of those around me plays a part. But that is not an answer just a slight bit of info.
I will be honest a part of me is unsure on this idea because from on perspective considering the percentages of natural miscarriages in the first 3months of pregnancy to believe that life began at conception would kinda make God a bit fan of abortion - but then there go all the religious arguments, I hear them in my thoughts as I type.
Medically it is at around 20-23 weeks that there is a slim (key word slim, and really it is very slim) chance for the unborn to survive outside the womb. In fact up until about 25weeks it is with great problems and even as late as 27weeks can be quite a miracle, a friend of mine has a child that was born at 27wks and will never quite function exactly the same though he is extraordinarily smart, advanced, and much more - it is a miracle he survived.
So perhaps life begins when that inside the womb is viable enough to live outside the womb... but wait...
Looking at ultrasounds it sure looks like a baby before that and there is a great amount of growth and advancement before that time right?
In many ways yes but again we come back to between 18 and 20 weeks for the amounts of growth and development that lead to the organs, traits, and aspects that make the unborn look human and have the necessary parts.
There is a religious group that a few thousand years ago said that the soul, life, began when the mother knew she would definitely have a child by the sensations of it kicking within her. This time period called the quickening occurs around month 5 so lets see 4 weeks in a month that is 20weeks hmm there is that number again.

So, for me while there is a part that believes, for myself, life may begin prior to week 22 for the sake of respecting and understanding that others will vary I find that perhaps scaling it back about 4-8 (so say 6) weeks is decent?

That would mean I would be for a bill leaning towards pro-choice but that at 3.5mos or at 14weeks I am pretty much anti-abortion - but also willing still outside of myself to understand others views and compromise, yikes.

I have heard and read how some women did not even know they were pregnant till month 5 (I still find odd/hard to believe but possible). Is this an extenuating circumstance?
Well, find out my thoughts on circumstances in the third section of this blog as the next one is looking at reasons and ideas on allowance of abortion.
Again this is understandably a very sensitive issue. As I said part of me believes and knows that 'life' begins before that 14wk mark - though still I hear the other arguments about how people who are a few days late on the period may be pregnant or women still having their period the first two months which still comes out to about 8wks for knowing for sure you are pregnant (the miracle of science to tell us 5days before a missed period)
Still as I said I figure to be fair to those with religious or other convictions about life beginning and/or about rights of a mother I chose 14weeks and after that it should be illegal ...
But does that mean I am pro-abortion before that time or think that the law should be?


I have taken many courses on biomedical ethics, read stories, talked to people, and thought hard about specific situations - situations that being raised strict Christian I was told still were not reasons for abortion what are they?

1. Incest - specifically say a father, older brother, uncle, etc have sex with a girl under the age of 16 who would have no say in the matter.
Is it right then for her to be forced to have the child because any other option is illegal? I don't know completely I do believe the person should be educated on all options and be encouraged perhaps to place the child for adoption, but then there are problems with genetic anomalies and other problems of incest. Until you are in that situation yourself you can not say what you would do, unless you know someone who has been through it you can not say you could even be empathetic to the situation.
I feel in these situations though that a decision MUST be made by that 12th week.
But then there is that religious argument that God would not have let her get pregnant less it was supposed to happen.... my only reply then is if God is not letting you get pregnant naturally why go through thousands of money for infertility?

2. Other Rape - It is harder here for me personally to say that abortion is a logical option in this case but again while I have been raped no child resulted, and no one I know personally has been through it so it is not really my right to tell another person who does not believe as I do that they should be prevented in this case of possibly extreme emotional hardship to not have that as an option.

3. Medical problems. I have to smile for Palin in part and I think more people need to have the faith, conviction, and belief of this woman at times. I do not think that having a child that will be deformed or sickly is all together a cause for having an abortion conversely I also do not like the whole area of "designer babies" and all that issue. On the other hand am I to say that a couple that does not have money or ability to raise such a child should be prevented within that first 14 weeks to not have the choice available to them???

4. Death!! - If a mothers life is at risk - if there are problems such as uterine cancer that becomes apparent, or certain heart problems, or any other problem where having the child would likely result in the death of one if not both is this cause? Absolutely, and I would say especially when there would be no other person to care for the child that is family. Now does that mean I think if that is the situation abortion should be promoted.. NO it simply means I would not even personally stand in the way of a person who in the first 14 weeks of pregnancy learned of this situation and chose to have the option of terminating the pregnancy.

So, there are reasons I see where abortion is an option I can understand would be considered viable for others.

Personally? Incest would not occur at this age in my life and if I had been under 16 I don't know what I would have done. My ex-husband is a woman now, would I have terminated a child knowing that NO. In a case of rape would I, NO. If it was my life or the child's and I was single - I honestly don't know, it is something I would be speaking about with my Priest, my Pastor, my sister who can not have kids, with friends, and would take a lot of time but I would want the option.
I truly would like every pregnancy to come to term and the child born into a family that is loving and caring. I also would like children abandoned and mistreated to be adopted but somehow the percents are low for kids over 5 and more so over 10 as parents prefer babies... that is another tangent though.

The situation is complex, there is not a simple answer that allows for the vast number of religious groups, spiritual associations, scientific groups, atheists, and whoever else to agree on every aspect.
I believe though that we should be able to come to a balance, a point where we can say that the option to murder the unborn is just that murder without question - my personal opinion if this must be the case would be around 12 to 14 weeks - by then you know you are pregnant and weeks away from viability outside the womb.
Let me briefly redefine the viability I am speaking about.
It is not whether the human can breath, eat, have their heart beat, or such on their own - the use of medical technology has advanced where a machine can make the heart beat, the lungs work, the ability for nutrition to be rendered --- my friend again with the child that was born at 24 weeks thanks to medical technology this child can intake nutrition through tpn.
What I mean by viability is the ability with that technology to live outside the womb - and sadly before 20 weeks it has never happened that I have read, and it definitely has never happened before 12 weeks. Does this mean it is not a viable pregnancy..NO and nor would I want that implied I am not speaking about the mother.

Next, how often I have argued on either or both sides of issues about the question of what would people do without the ability to have abortions - I am told stories by my parents - now married nearly 55years with 7kids - of people they knew back in the 40's and even up through till the 60's that did use hangers, or purposely got beat up.... and then there is worse

I can say I rather let the person be given the choice to make for themselves then to have them decide say to take: Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme (yeah did you know about that song?) in excessive amounts along with excessive Vit C, Cinnamon, Alcohol, or even worse things like Black or Blue Cohosh, or even what can be deadly like Penny royal within the first trimester to try and terminate.

In the end what I believe personally for my own life is not what I expect to have as a requirement for those who are of other cultural or even the same cultural background of me.

Yes a part of me would love it to be where there were no abortions, where there were no genetically modified/designed babies, where people would accept that God did/didn't want them pregnant by granting it rather than using technology to mess with God's plan... but you know like I said in the end I am not the dictator of another persons  complete ability to make choices with their body. I may not like what others do and I do believe that there are limits, important limits.. but I never want complete freedom removed.

Visibility: Everyone
Posted: Wednesday October 21, 2009, 9:06 am
Tags: public healthcare policy abortion [add/edit tags]

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