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Jul 25, 2012

"God" as "he" is conceived, is a LOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.

God is said to be Omniscient, all-knowing, knows everything that's going on;

Omnipotent, all-powerful, controls everything that's going on;

and all-Good.

Now, he can be any TWO of those things -- take your pick; but god CAN'T be all three, if words are to have any meaning at all.

He can be unknowing of all the evil and suffering going on in the world {especially that done in his name!};

can know all of what's going on, but be unable to stop it;

but he CAN'T be both the first two things, and be GOOD, in the same sense that we commonly use the words "good" or "kind" or "loving" or "compassionate" to describe ourselves or our neighbors! To say that "we just can't understand god" or "god has different standards than we do", is nothing but a {traditional} cop-out that completely perverts the meaning of "good" to mean, as a word, one thing when it comes to our ordinary standards of behavior, and a totally different meaning ONLY when applied to "god".

An entity can't be ALL black AND ALL white at the same time! Of course, an entity can be MIXED colors, and a god can be PARTLY good and evil. But that is not how religious people define him! People are finally getting sick of dealing with this nonsense conundrum.....

Visibility: Everyone
Posted: Wednesday July 25, 2012, 6:05 pm
Tags: activism atheists progressives equalrights agnostics atheism socialchange skeptics humanists youngpeople

Group Discussions

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (465)
Wednesday July 25, 2012, 6:21 pm
To say that I am an Atheist, does not mean that I don't acknowledge some sort of Energy Force or Source, and some things beyond our knowledge and complete understanding. Just that this Energy or whatever you feel like calling it, is not the "god" as traditional religions conceive "him".
Plenty of religious mystics of all faiths -- and of no definable faith! -- have you might say "tapped into" this Energy Source or whatever, and it is perfectly believable to me that they did so. These "Energies", it appears, can be used for either good or evil purposes. Nazis were into occult theories and practices. On the other hand, people have had what appear to be true visions and insights, magnificent works of art have been created, and I know for a fact and many people know, that Faith Healing is something that really occurs with frequency. People may attribute these things to God, the Baby Jesus, the Devil, the Virgin Mary, some Saint, Kuan Yin, Krishna, Isis or whatever their religion offers as image or metaphor -- but I as an Atheist would say that this is rather a Primal Energy Source that you don't have to call a "god", because it is in no way a "personality" that you can "appeal to" like you appeal to a powerful ruler. "God" was based on Mesopotamian kings that had the power of life and death at their whim......

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio/
Than are dreamt of in your Philosophy". Hamlet
"The Universe is not only stranger than we know; it is stranger than we CAN know". Haldane

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (465)
Wednesday July 25, 2012, 6:45 pm
Someone said: "The way I see it, there are only two possibilities: either you and I and everything on the earth and in the universe are the end product of a random series of chemical reactions, or that some unseen, unimaginably powerful being created it all."
Okay, then WHO OR WHAT CREATED that unseen, unimaginably powerful being...... where did he she or it COME FROM?
And then, WHO or WHAT created the being that created the unseen unimaginably powerful being that created the universe...... and so on. You get it.

We know from E=mc squared, that matter and energy, from which the Universe is created, are interchangeable. Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. We can conceive nothing "before" matter/energy. There seems to be a sort of "intelligence" or "blueprint" for the tiny building blocks of matter to arrange themselves.... that is called "evolution". If this "intelligence" or "blueprint" was present in the "big bang" or when our particular evolutionary series began, then it was INHERENT in it, not "outside" -- there is not, cannot be an "outside". Therefore, you might say that the Universe IS CONSTANTLY CREATING ITSELF.

It is ONLY THE FACT THAT ENGLISH, GREEK, LATIN, AND OTHER INDO-EUROPEAN LANGUAGES HAVE A VERBAL FORM THAT REQUIRES A SUBJECT-PREDICATE, NOUN-VERB FORM; ONLY that fact, and that we have a hard time thinking outside those forms we learn as kids, that makes our MINDS think that "Creating", a Verb, requires a "Creator", a Noun, "something" to "activate" the Verb -- Subject, Predicate.

ONLY GRAMMAR and nothing more. Other languages, such as Navaho, don't see the world in that way. You could have a Verb WITHOUT A SUBJECT; simply describing ACTIVITY by itself.

A famous Mathematician, whose name I forget, asked to "convert" to belief in God on his Deathbed, turned away saying, "I believe that Hypothesis to be unnecessary."

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (465)
Wednesday July 25, 2012, 6:51 pm

Depleted Uranium: the Killer That Keeps On Killing

"After the Americans destroyed our village and killed many of us, we also lost our houses and have nothing to eat. However, we would have endured these miseries and even accepted them, if the Americans had not sentenced us all to death. When I saw my deformed grandson, I realized that my hopes of the future have vanished for good, different from the hopelessness of the Russian barbarism, even though at that time I lost my older son Shafiqullah. This time, however, I know we are part of the invisible genocide brought on us by America, a silent death from which I know we will not escape."
(Jooma Khan of Laghman province, Afghanistan. March 2003)

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (465)
Wednesday July 25, 2012, 8:45 pm
To DENY such well-observed phenomena as "faith healing", would be to be UN-scientific! like denying Climate Change or anything else that has been OBSERVED! and observed REPEATEDLY, under all sorts of different circumstances. Just because we don't know the mechanism, or can't replicate it at will or under laboratory circumstances..... doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

[I personally, for what it's worth, can attest to this from my own experience, family members' experiences, etc.....]

You could say, "the 'Supernatural' is something 'Natural'". Maybe like thunder and lightning used to be mis-understood as "Gods getting angry", maybe eventually we will understand these phenomena a little better than we do at the present time.

Hamlet as a "fictional character", was like ALL "fictional characters", expressing his AUTHOR'S, William Shakespeare's, views. It is to be observed, that Shakespeare's views were HIGHLY SUBVERSIVE for his time: therefore, being a man of intelligence who also wanted to SAVE HIS HIDE, he expressed his REAL views in characters who were "crazy", like Hamlet and King Lear, acknowledged as two of his greatest "fictional" creations. These fictional characters, being both crazy AND royal, were allowed to say anything they damn well pleased, as they would have in real life, and get away with it. Thus by-passing the strict Elizabethan-Jacobean censorship of the Office of the Revels. {The other "crazy" character who expressed Shakespeare's real views, was Falstaff, a hopeless drunk.}

Shakespeare was probably born into a Catholic family, had to pretend he was a Protestant to survive, and Hamlet is a Lucretian, that is, his philosophy is of Greek PAGAN origin {see the recent book, The Swerve, for a fuller definition}. These were Greek pagans that said that the gods, if there were gods, were not the slightest bit interested in mankind, we were on our own. Therefore, Hamlet's/Shakespeare's views were awfully darned close to ATHEISM, which in anyone else would've gotten them into REAL trouble at that time! I was struck by this the first time the REAL subversive import of Hamlet's words in the gravedigger's scene hit me.....

Anyway, Hamlet/Shakespeare were also broad-minded enough to face square-on something that "their philosophy" was not prepared to deal with -- in Hamlet's case, his father's ghost!

I think Haldane can be interpreted, as meaning that MAYBE THERE ARE THINGS IN THE UNIVERSE THAT OUR PUNY MINDS ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING. At least, that is how I interpret it! That certainly does NOT imply there's a god or gods!!! I don't know if Haldane was a theist or not. I suspect not. That statement is IN NO WAY INCOMPATIBLE WITH ATHEISM. Belief in a "god" can be just a cop-out for not wanting to say you "don't understand" something, it's a PHONEY "UNDERSTANDING" to reassure the timid!!!

Anyway, there are NUMEROUS things besides faith healing that we don't have "explanations" for, such as the Spiritual Journeys undertaken by Shamans, which often result in actual knowledge or wisdom being "brought back", things like that. You have to believe that for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, people en masse [outside of the Power Structure!] have been LYING and making up stuff, this cross-culturally and sometimes in SPITE of being persecuted for it! This is what CHRISTIANS say all comes from SATAN!!!

My BEST explanation, and it is only tentative and approximate since I don't have the ARROGANCE to ASSUME I KNOW, is, that there is a "Universal Energy Source" somehow that can be tapped into. Have ya seen that Buddha figure ordering a Hot Dog, saying, "One With Everything"? That's sortof it.

Atheism means "no god"; it doesn't HAVE to mean "total materialism"; altho some Atheists ARE "total materialists". But I think "total materialism" simply denies, closes the eyes to "stuff we don't understand and can't measure and slice into 'scientific' bits".

For what it's worth, I know something about "Spiritual Journeys" from my OWN experience, too -- when things like that happen, they're physical, they're real, they're not something people make up..... even tho in THIS culture they may be extraordinary and not happen to everyone.

These types of experiences, as well as faith healing, may be suffused with Xian imagery, with Buddhist imagery, with Greek or Roman pagan or Native American imagery, but this is IMAGERY, like ART, and doesn't mean that "the goddess Isis" CAUSED the experience......! If "Isis" is just a way our minds choose to put a "form" to inexpressible ENERGIES.........

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (465)
Wednesday July 25, 2012, 9:45 pm
You can call these Energies "magic", you can call them "occult", you can call them "Satanic", you can call them "Spiritual", you can call them "a science beyond our science", you can call them "the fifth dimension", or the sixth, or the seventh, or the eighth dimension; you can call them "traditional knowledge";

you can call them "superstition" or "hoax" or "lying" but you would be DENYING AN OBSERVED PART OF REALITY if you did the latter. It's exactly like that guy saying "There are no Gay people in Iran". Sure as sure can be, they EXIST but he DOESN'T WANT TO SEE THEM -- they don't fit his particular world-view!

Since when does "Energy" = god?

Well, we have to admit, some people will tend towards saying it, who are TOO COWARDLY to come "out of the closet" as full Atheists, who will HIDE BEHIND the formulation that "God is Energy" or "God is Love" or "God is the Universe", etc. etc. etc. This keeps them RESPECTABLE in their neighbors' eyes -- yeah, we all REALLY believe in the same "god"! Uh huh. Uh huh.

Okay, I hope you believe that I am NOT taking this tack! More and more, as Atheists DO come "out of the closet", there's going to be no NEED for that!

I don't really have to push this, as gradually, as knowledge of different cultures and peoples' different real experiences becomes more widespread, EVERYONE will come to realize that this "fifth dimension" or "energy" or whatever it is or whatever people call it in whatever language, REALLY EXISTS -- as sure as Gay people, transsexuals, bisexuals, and other people who were denied, REALLY EXIST.

By the way, other non-European languages DO have quite specific words for these Energies and these phenomena -- they KNOW they exist!!! Christianity really crapped up our language to where we can hardly even THINK outside of "Satanism" and "demons" and "evil witchcraft" and crap like that!!! And "superstition" -- that's anything that CHRISTIANITY didn't approve of! A way to slam your RIVALS!

I'm NOT saying that "all" Atheist materialists are "Marxists" -- don't get me wrong! -- but I AM saying that Marxist materialist atheism showed its FAILURE to account for Human Nature and provide a decent life.....

[Oh, now I bet I'm in REAL trouble! I'm not "Red-baiting" Atheists or materialists! I'm just sayin'........!]


BMutiny TCorporationsEvil
female, age 77, single, 1 child
Seattle, WA, USA
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