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what thinking REALLY goes behind the anti woman movement falsely called "pro life"
Feb 24, 2006

thanks to Amanda at www.pandagon.net for this

  • Society teaches that children are made by men and merely borne by women, which is evidenced by not only the tradition of naming the children after the parent who didn’t actually have them, but also by folk wisdom that gives all the child-making agency to men, from sayings like, “when you were a sparkle in your father’s eye” to “having a bun in the oven” (making the father the baker).
  • Therefore, if men have all the agency in baby-making, it follows that a fertilized egg is just as much a baby as a newborn, because otherwise, sexists would have to admit that women are the ones who actually do the important work in turning raw materials into new human beings.
  • The fight over whether or not a fetus is a baby is a symbolic fight over who can rightfully claim ownership of the process of making a baby–men or women? If you believe men should have the right, then abortion is indeed a horrible thing, because it’s a woman destroying what a man has created. But if you believe women can claim the right, then terminating a pregnancy is just that–not doing something you don’t want to do that’s hugely burdensome and certainly not something you should be forced to do against your will.
    • Visibility: Everyone
    Posted: Friday February 24, 2006, 2:15 pm
    Tags: feminism activism prochoice [add/edit tags]

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    Past Member (0)     		Friday February 24, 2006, 2:21 pm
    Abortion = murder. Fact. Leaving aside the contentious issue of the age at which a foetus becomes a baby, can anyone say that a child who has been carried for six months is not a baby when it could be successfully delivered and survive? It is a filthy crime and a sin.

    Past Member (0)     		Friday February 24, 2006, 2:25 pm
    and I present you with the first bigot to enter stage.
    James here lies shamelessly, as abortions are normally performed in the first 3 months of pregnancy. No abortion is performed after that unless the mother's life is at risk (or fetal life is at risk). However, James needs to repeat the lies. WHY??
    BECAUSE he has no love or respect for any woman. He believes that a woman is just a vessel, not an actual human being. As such, she has no rights to her own body.
    James, welcome to the Hall of Shame,

    Past Member (0)     		Friday February 24, 2006, 2:27 pm
    To add: yes, a baby at 6 months may survive. HOWEVER:
    1. It will have eye problems all of its life as the eyes are not fully developed at that age.
    2. It will be smaller than any peers fol all of its life.
    3. Will suffer from liver problems all of its life.

    A translucent undevelopped blob is not a baby. However, in the opinion of the disgusting woman haters as James here, it is more important than a woman, because, the message underneath is simple: a woman is not a real person to begin with.#

    Past Member (0)     		Friday February 24, 2006, 2:49 pm
    I'd like to ask the people who feel they own my uterus just exactly how much they're doing for any children currently here (who were unwanted). Have you adopted some? Have you sponsored some? These are the same people who vote down any motion made to increase funding for social programs that benefit these children born to families who couldn't afford to have them in the first place. Anti-abortion people have no interest in what happens to the children after they're born. They're hippocrites. Fact.

    Past Member (0)     		Friday February 24, 2006, 3:03 pm
    OF course they do not care about the children, because this is not about the children. This is about punishing women and removing any freedom they might have, by forcing them to remain in the stage of breeding beasts and nothing more

    Tanya R. (118)     		Friday February 24, 2006, 3:42 pm
    I feel it is a very personal choice, which I'm sure most women don't take lightly.
    What really happens here is that "Poor people are banned from legalized safe abortions."
    The rich will be able to afford to go where abortion is legal.
    There are teenage girls now that throw their babies in dumsters.
    There are too many dysfunctional men in this world that will claim to happy to be a father, then run off, or go to prison without supporting their children.
    With the current government, and social programs being cut from the budget, I don't agree with this at all.


    Maryalice M. (20)     		Sunday May 7, 2006, 11:30 am
    I should stay away from this, but I feel strongly. A man raped not only all his daughters, but his granddaughter/daughters as well, and a few nieces. If one of those little girls that are raped by fathers, uncles, anyone at all and becomes pregnant wants to "kill" by inducing abortion, I say be like Jesus, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED. Let God judge her, and go expand some energy on getting legislation passed to castrate rapists or teaching boys to respect women and girls. Lordy! How about protesting the UK's involvement in killing of innocent LIVE children in Iraq. Or the putting in jail 81 year old men and 65 year old ladies, because they do dare protest war. How about adopting some crack babies, or children starving in country's round the world?

    Past Member (0)     		Sunday May 21, 2006, 6:27 am
    thank you so much for your comment. Please join us at http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/bnw

    Nuin R. (16)     		Wednesday August 30, 2006, 10:04 pm
    M'am, I'd like to comment on this. And I don't want to start a debate, fight ect. I used to be pro-choice. But then I started doing some research in development of fetuses and I looked at pictures and read about abortion procedures. Mind you, I was looking at and for pro-choice materials (FOR pro-choice validation). And by my own rational mind I came up with the idea that everyone has a right to their opinions, and a right to do with their body as they please. BUT, please just read farther down at what I found looking at pregnancy sites, Doctor information ect.
    ~By the sixth week (after conception), the brain emits waves which register on an EEG (electroencephalogram). This is the legal standard for determining if someone is alive after birth. The heartbeat can be heard with an ultrasonic stethoscope, the embryo responds reflexively to stimulus and may be able to feel pain. Bone ossification begins at this point as well.
    Startle responses can be observed after 7 weeks, and female ovaries are now identifiable. Fingers and toes are now distinctly separated, and knee joints are present.
    By the eighth week of pregnancy, every organ is present and in place. Ninety percent of the structures found in an adult human being can now be found in this tiny embryo which is only about an inch and a half long. The brain, at this point, makes up almost half of the embryo's total body weight, and 75% of 8-week embryos demonstrate right-hand dominance. Intermittent breathing motions (though there is no air present in the uterus) occur, the kidneys begin producing urine, and male testes are releasing testosterone. As the skin thickens, it loses much of its transparency.
    At nine weeks the eyelids close at this point, and fetuses are now capable of sucking their thumb, swallowing amniotic fluid, grasping objects and responding to touch. The uterus can be recognized in female fetuses and external genitalia become more recognizable. And at ten weeks from conception, fingernails, toenails and unique fingerprints all appear.~ Now, I know this doesn't prove anything about personality development ect. BUT how can anyone say that it isn't human? By 8 weeks they are minute human forms. I'm very curious as to WHEN you think we become of value? As James said, a 6 month old baby can survive outside of the womb, BUT also could be aborted. I don't understand. I believe now after alot of SCIENTIFIC facts studies that we are ALWAYS human. Just because we can't hear them scream when they are ripped apart by abortionists doesn't mean they don't.
    Have a very nice day. And something to think about for us all. Should we suck and dismember a fetus from the womb to avenge our honor as women, or in response to what the world and men have done? What did the fetus do to any of us? Why should the BABY die an often-times horrific death because of the sins of this world? I wonder if you've comforted a woman who has had an abortion before. I have, and the pain that she NATURALLY feels inside, the instincts, all of that is so heart breaking that I can't help but weep with them. The loss so many feel is senseless.
    May you have peace and a very nice day :) Thanks so much for your time.

    Nuin R. (16)     		Wednesday August 30, 2006, 10:05 pm
    M'am, I'd like to comment on this. And I don't want to start a debate, fight ect. I used to be pro-choice. But then I started doing some research in development of fetuses and I looked at pictures and read about abortion procedures. Mind you, I was looking at and for pro-choice materials (FOR pro-choice validation). And by my own rational mind I came up with the idea that everyone has a right to their opinions, and a right to do with their body as they please. BUT, please just read farther down at what I found looking at pregnancy sites, Doctor information ect.
    ~By the sixth week (after conception), the brain emits waves which register on an EEG (electroencephalogram). This is the legal standard for determining if someone is alive after birth. The heartbeat can be heard with an ultrasonic stethoscope, the embryo responds reflexively to stimulus and may be able to feel pain. Bone ossification begins at this point as well.
    Startle responses can be observed after 7 weeks, and female ovaries are now identifiable. Fingers and toes are now distinctly separated, and knee joints are present.
    By the eighth week of pregnancy, every organ is present and in place. Ninety percent of the structures found in an adult human being can now be found in this tiny embryo which is only about an inch and a half long. The brain, at this point, makes up almost half of the embryo's total body weight, and 75% of 8-week embryos demonstrate right-hand dominance. Intermittent breathing motions (though there is no air present in the uterus) occur, the kidneys begin producing urine, and male testes are releasing testosterone. As the skin thickens, it loses much of its transparency.
    At nine weeks the eyelids close at this point, and fetuses are now capable of sucking their thumb, swallowing amniotic fluid, grasping objects and responding to touch. The uterus can be recognized in female fetuses and external genitalia become more recognizable. And at ten weeks from conception, fingernails, toenails and unique fingerprints all appear.~ Now, I know this doesn't prove anything about personality development ect. BUT how can anyone say that it isn't human? By 8 weeks they are minute human forms. I'm very curious as to WHEN you think we become of value? As James said, a 6 month old baby can survive outside of the womb, BUT also could be aborted. I don't understand. I believe now after alot of SCIENTIFIC facts studies that we are ALWAYS human. Just because we can't hear them scream when they are ripped apart by abortionists doesn't mean they don't.
    Have a very nice day. And something to think about for us all. Should we suck and dismember a fetus from the womb to avenge our honor as women, or in response to what the world and men have done? What did the fetus do to any of us? Why should the BABY die an often-times horrific death because of the sins of this world? I wonder if you've comforted a woman who has had an abortion before. I have, and the pain that she NATURALLY feels inside, the instincts, all of that is so heart breaking that I can't help but weep with them. The loss so many feel is senseless.
    May you have peace and a very nice day :) Thanks so much for your time.

    Past Member (0)     		Friday September 1, 2006, 11:47 am
    Ash, you have said nothing about the woman. Yes, the foetus has stages of development... etc. What about the woman? It's her body, remember??

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