Barbara's Sharebook 

To quote from http://www.yiddishcursesforrepublicanjews.com/

May G-d give you a daughter-in-law who is as kind as she is beautiful, as patient as she is rich, as wise as she is devoted, a virtuous woman in every way. And then may a ballot initiative invalidate her marriage to your Rebecca.

Yiddish curses always have those lovely TWISTS!!!

GOOD FOR YOU!!!

That Cause thread got very early to the point where I, personally, would just give it up -- certain subjects {such as immigration} I personally tend to avoid as much as possible, as I think my limited time is better spent elsewhere! Not that I think EVERYbody should do that -- SOMEbody needs to hold the fort. And maybe even keep arguing & arguing with the trolls -- some don't seem to mind it. It's just not my "thing" -- one person can't do everything!

That said, I'm glad you drew my attention to that, as otherwise I would've skipped it for the reasons stated above.  I think some threads just need to close, as eventually they all do. Let the troll have the "last word"! They don't change any minds!

 I have noticed that C2 is weird about "political trolls" -- they use the excuse of "free speech"; sometimes I wonder, and other people have too, if some sort of a "deal" has been made, C2 can continue to exist if the trolls are allowed to speak! After all, there are powerful forces who DON'T WANT the kind of speech on a Forum that C2 provides! Are we being paranoid? Well, it's speculation! Otherwise, hard to figure out what's going on!

Yeah, keep flagging. And, I THINK YOUR SENTENCE ABOUT THE RNC SENDING IN DISRUPTORS IS SOMETHING YOU -- AND WE! -- CAN REPEAT AGAIN AND AGAIN ON EACH THREAD THESE GUYS APPEAR ON -- BECAUSE IT'S TRUE! See, the BEAUTY of that IS -- true or not, THEY CAN'T DENY IT WITHOUT DRAWING ATTENTION TO IT -- so that puts them in a BIND!

We need to STAY CALM -- what the trolls are trying to do, is NOT to "convince" anybody, rather, they want to make us mad and lose our cool and DESCEND TO THEIR LEVEL AND LOOK LIKE FOOLS!!! THEN, people will look at Care2 "political" threads and think, this is a silly and ridiculous place for me to spend my time! I will just go elsewhere! The trolls DON'T MIND how silly and stupid they look -- AS LONG AS THEY CAN GET US TO DO THE SAME!!! Their END goal, is NOT to "win" the discussion -- but to DEGRADE and ultimately, STOP IT ENTIRELY! I mean like ENTIRELY, not just on the thread they are on!!

ONLY IF WE LET THEM, WILL THIS HAPPEN. ONLY IF WE ARE NOT ONTO THEM.

I have been thru all this BEFORE, on C2, years ago! With trolls named Jeffrey and Rusty -- who knows if these are the same ones, or new ones! no difference! [David B. sounds suspiciously the same, to me! But, maybe they are just reading out of the same playbook!]

BMutiny T       Barbara

The RNC is the Republican National Committee. A while ago, a Care2 member accessed their site, and found how they were encouraging the trolls to do their thing all over the Internet! including of course Care2; and, moreover, found the TALKING POINTS FOR EACH DAY, listed!!!!!! THAT'S WHY THE TROLLS SOUND ALIKE WHEREVER THEY APPEAR! {A recent ploy, for example, is for Trolls to say "they are Independents and voted for Obama -- but now, they've seen the light, Obama is a dictator, tyrant, Marxist, Obamacare is taking away our freedoms, etc. -- so they are voting for ROMNEY!" NOT a valid criticism of Obama from the Left, as a REAL Independent would make!!!} Anyway, that site is more difficult to access now, so we probably can't get to it! We can only see the results......

And, IT IS EXPLICITLY AGAINST THE CARE2 CODE OF CONDUCT, TO VILIFY AND ENGAGE IN PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST CARE2 MEMBERS. Such posts need to ALWAYS BE FLAGGED. However, be warned that Care2's enforcement of such rules, is shall-we-say "spotty". Care2's excuse is 1, they're very busy {I believe it}, and, 2, Free Speech {see my and others' doubts, above}.

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/arizona-immigration-law-racially-motivated.html#ixzz21SetobFj

Actually, that thread is RIDICULOUSLY long by now, I wouldn't want to encourage anybody to post there! Just note David B., the NEW TROLL!

Somebody asked me: "Is there a way to get rid of trolls such as E..... and S..... who are there only to cause trouble? I complain about them constantly but get no help from Care2....."

You can get rid of them if they BREAK CARE2'S RULES OF CONDUCT.

Care2's "terms of service" are at the very, very bottom of this page.

I haven't looked at them recently. Care2 used to have a "Code of Conduct" in addition to the "terms of service"; and it used to be accessible. Maybe it still is.

Anyway, according to the "Code of Conduct", it was AGAINST THE RULES FOR A CARE2 MEMBER TO PERSONALLY ATTACK ANOTHER CARE2 MEMBER. You could attack someone's OPINIONS or IDEAS. But you couldn't, for example, call them an "Idiot".

Of course, the Right-wingers on Care2 DID THAT ALL THE TIME. There were a couple in particular..... probably not these same 2! That was a long time ago! Years ago!

You realize, that for the most part, THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING PAID BY THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE, the RNC. They get their TALKING POINTS directly from the RNC. {It's good to remind other people of that, now and again!} A Care2 member actually went to the RNC site and saw the talking points posted.... now that site is more difficult to access!!!

Anyway, if you want to fight these people, you have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL, NOT TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING, YOURSELF -- that is, attack personally, other Care2 members! THEY WILL USE THAT AGAINST YOU IF THEY CAN! They have absolutely no shame!

We had a big battle a few years back, against similar trolls. WE HAD TO GET UP ALL SORTS OF PETITIONS, TO GET CARE2 TO FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES!!!!!!!!!!! Care2 would "temporarily" block these people, then these people would just come back and do the exact same thing again!!! Finally, FINALLY after a huge battle, we DID get Care2 to follow their own rules, and these people wised up, and were obnoxious but did not make any more personal attacks.

You can ONLY "get" them IF THEY MAKE A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU OR ON ANY OTHER CARE2 MEMBER. For example, they CAN say that "Gays are Evil", etc., that is allowed....... but they CAN'T say "Sharon is a disgrace to the human race", etc. By the exact same token, YOU can't say "Elaine is a disgrace to the human race", etc., IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE THAT TACTIC..... BECAUSE IF YOU DO, THEY ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO USE IT AGAINST YOU. Even if THEY "started it"!

There SHOULD be a way to say, These are just TROLLS who MERELY WANT TO MAKE TROUBLE and are NOT BELONGING HERE IN THIS DISCUSSION. But I guess that falls under "the right of Free Speech". I guess the answer is to ignore them, pass over them as if they said NOTHING. Or, attack right-wingers AS A GROUP, not as the people posting: as in, RIGHT-WINGERS ARE ALL IDIOTS. If you are very witty and clever, RIDICULE can sometimes CRUSH them! The BEST answer I've heard yet, is somebody recently said to a right-wing troll, "If they saw the inanity of your remarks, the Koch brothers would stop paying you"!!!!!!!!!!!! Oooooooh, so clever!!!!!!!! on so many levels! [And within the rules, too!]

Since they are often capable of nothing but what I call "one-line zingers', I like to sometimes CRUSH them with an AVALANCHE OF WELL-RESEARCHED FACTS!!! You have noticed, no doubt, that my posts tend to be somewhat long! SOMEtimes, that will CRUSH them and shut them up! Another GOOD thing to do, is to figure out WHAT THEY, THE TROLLS POSTING ON BEHALF OF THE RNC, WANT LEAST TO BE POSTED -- AND THEN POST THAT!!! By that I mean -- you don't have to ANSWER the trolls' nonsense! That is letting THEM "frame the conversation"! You can say ANYTHING YOU DARN WELL WANT TO, after the Trolls have posted! Say something really EMBARASSING [but well-researched and true!] about the Repukelican candidates, f'rinstance...... do this after each obnoxious post by a troll, so that it's INEVITABLE......

In conclusion, DON'T LET THE TROLLS "FRAME" AND GUIDE THE CONVERSATION. And, NEVER, NEVER DESCEND TO THEIR LEVEL. {I know, I have, but only once or twice, we all are tempted!} THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE TROLLS WANT -- WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR -- TO DEGRADE THE CONVERSATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. As much as is in their power to do so. Don't GIVE them that power. Talk AROUND them and PAST them and STICK TO YOUR GUNS!!!!!! Both intellectually and morally!

[You can actually turn THEM into a platform, for saying stuff you want to say! In other words, TURN THE TABLES on them, take ADVANTAGE..... if you have that perspective in mind!] [Trolls learned to avoid places I posted in......] So, I hope my "experience" has been a mite helpful.......

BMutiny T     Barbara

In an ideal, perfect world {where's that?}, the Nobel Committee would be nothing but a bunch of starry-eyed idealists, awarding the prize to other starry-eyed idealists. ALWAYS. Well, SOMETIMES it works that way. {I could list a few of these "deserving" recipients if I had the time.}

At other times, the Nobel Prize Committee, just like everyone else on the Planet it seems, is Playing Politics -- and it has been so from the very beginning. Look at the HISTORY of the Nobel Peace Prize! It was awarded to such "warriors" as: Teddy Roosevelt! {Spanish-American War}; Woodrow Wilson! {took the US into WWI}; Yasser Arafat! {sortof a "terrorist", wouldn't you say?}; and - even! HENRY KISSINGER! {one of the WORST of the warmongers.....!}. Yes, it was a matter of "encouraging" certain people and actions by these people and "trends". Not awarded necessarily because these people were "saints and angels". It could even be called, "interfering in the affairs of another country"; and that's NOT NECESSARILY a Bad Thing, when that country has power on a WORLD stage like the US does!

I think this action by the Nobel Peace Prize Committe was a stroke of GENIUS. It seems to me, irrelevant whether the prize was "deserved" in a strict sense, or not! {President Obama was very gracious about saying he felt he "didn't deserve it". Now, he has EVEN MORE TO LIVE UP TO! That's a GOOD thing!!!}

This prize award has CHANGED THE COMPLEXION OF POLITICS IN THE USA. For one thing, THE REPUBLICANS AND THE FAR-RIGHT ARE MAKING TOTAL PUBLIC IRREDEEMABLE FOOLS OF THEMSELVES! That ALONE is worth it! You see, the Repukelicans and the Far Right NEVER DID ACTUALLY HAVE THE PUBLIC SUPPORT THAT THEY CLAIM TO HAVE. The only way they can APPEAR to have any support, is because THE MEDIA GIVES THEM ALL THAT PUBLICITY. While these clowns PRETEND to be leading a "grassroots movement", teabaggers, anti-health-care dupes, etc.; the movement is in actuality, nothing but {I LOVE that phrase!}, an "ASTROTURF" movement!!! {For those to whom English is a second language, "Astroturf" is a kind of ARTIFICIAL grass, used in sports stadiums, etc.}
This is PROVED by the fact that POLLS SHOW that all the efforts of the Right-wingers HAVE NOT CHANGED PUBLIC OPINION {on Health Care, for example}, by any significant number of percentage points!!!!!
However, the Media by giving undue PUBLICITY to the ranting bigots, and virtually NONE to even huge protests by OUR side; give a completely DISTORTED view.

Well, there is such a thing, apparently hard-wired into most human beings, such a thing as PATRIOTISM. Even birds and animals, LOVE and defend their "home base", their territory, their Homeland! The Repukes have PUT THEMSELVES ON THE WRONG SIDE; by being snide about their favorite hate-object, Obama, getting the award!!! But, all the LATENT PATRIOTISM of MOST folks, as well as the CONTINUING SUPPORT FOR OBAMA that in some instances has been INTIMIDATED and muted into silence, has NOW come to the fore!!!!!

Whether on purpose or not {and I think these Norwegian guys are quite a savvy bunch!}, this comes at a time when the SEEMING power and influence of the Far Right APPEARED to be out-of-control. This giving of the award sure CUTS THEM DOWN TO SIZE!!! Not only do WE, up-to-now ignored by the Media, WE get our VOICES back; but I feel, with all the irresponsible Right-wing rant encouraging actual VIOLENCE, I feel that GIVING THIS AWARD AT THIS TIME MAY HAVE EVEN SAVED OUR PRESIDENT FROM ASSASSINATION. Because THAT's where all this "talk" was headed, make no mistake!

Of course I am very pleased for President Obama, his supporters in the government, his family both in the US and in Kenya, our country and those who had the good sense to vote for Obama {without waiting for the "perfect person" to come along}. This award will INDEED "ENCOURAGE" certain types of good, peace-tending policies; which WAS the original intent of the founder of the Prize, Alfred Nobel. Its net result will ALSO be, perhaps even more importantly, to ENCOURAGE the supporters of President Obama, including even some of the previously dis-illusioned ones, to PUSH EVEN HARDER for the policies for Peace that WE want to see instituted: leaving Iraq and Afghanistan, no drone bombers, dis-mantle American bases, even MORE nuclear disarmament, etc. etc. etc. This has been SOOOOOOO good for our country; and for what we want!

And the Far Right, our deadly enemies, self-destruct EVEN FASTER...... leaving the path for Reform that much clearer.......

Si Se Puedes! Yes We Can! HOPE is back to the foreground......!