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Sep 3, 2012

I just came across a wonderful blog, which has introduced some wonderful terms, such as "teabilly". I think I'm going to find that term useful!
Okay, now, this is for EVERYONE here on Care2 who is NOT a TEABILLY. {You know who you are, both ways!}
The Koch brothers are DESPERATE to win with Mitt. Michael Moore thinks they have a good chance of winning, if Dem voters don't turn out EN MASSE, as we did in 2008. That year was of course a LANDSLIDE for President Obama; 5 million voters turned out more than previous elections. THIS year, due to VOTER DIS-ENFRANCHISEMENT, there may well be as many as 5 MILLION VOTERS TURNED AWAY AT THE POLLS.

Remember that we HAVE STILL THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SYSTEM. That means, that Candidate Obama, even if he gets THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULAR VOTE, he can still LOSE KEY STATES WITH ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES. The Koch brothers, of course, are WELL AWARE OF THIS.
The Koch brothers, as people here on C2 are well aware, are sending HORDES OF PAID TROLLS {paid by the POST, evidently!} to C2 and to other Liberal sites. NO, there is NO COMPARABLE sending by Dems and Liberals to Right-wing sites! There is NO NEED FOR THAT; and there are NO RICH DONORS supporting that!
These PAID TROLLS, or Teabillys! as I might call them! get their TALKING POINTS from the RNC, the RepublicanNationalCommittee. That is why they ALL SOUND ALIKE. They ALL USE THE SAME TALKING POINTS - they are REQUIRED TO. This is NOT their "own initiative" or their "own considered opinions". They SAY WHAT THEIR MASTERS TELL THEM TO SAY - THAT'S IT!
The Koch brothers, using the RNC, the RepukelicanNationalCommitte, have VERY SKILLED PROPAGANDISTS working for them. They KNOW they are NOT going to persuade ANYone on Mitt's "merits".

THAT IS WHY THE HORDES OF TROLLS ARE BEING SENT OUT TO THE LIBERAL SITES. Their PURPOSE, is to KEEP PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE POLLS, away from voting Democrat! {Don't forget, there are important SENATE elections too!}
The Trolls are INSTRUCTED to say, in order to collect their paychecks, things that will tend to DISCOURAGE and UNDERMINE enthusiasm for President Obama, in VERY SUBTLE WAYS. {Much subtler than the stupid Trolls could think up by themselves!} At this point, if you have a copy of works by GEORGE LAKEOFF, take it out and RE-READ IT!!!

What the Trolls have been instructed to say: "I voted for Obama, but NOW I am going to vote for ROMNEY!" Well, THAT didn't go over too well!!!
So, NOW, the NEW "meme" they are ALL pulling, is, "I AM VOTING FOR MITT AS THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS. They are both bad; but Obama is worse."

Mary B said,"Do folks really get paid for commenting negatively here?....I have noticed that there are a handful who repeat the same negative diatribe over and over..(In fact it's almost like a script)"

Yup, YOU GOT IT, Kid! The KOCH BROTHERS, with their endlessly deep pockets, are PAYING THE TROLLS. Who are definitely NOT wanted here, and they know it!
A while ago, a C2 member {who is no longer with C2}, WENT TO THE RNC SITE, and showed us how to get there, and we actually SAW the Talking Points Of The Day, posted on the RNC site! {Since then, it is not possible for us to access that site any more!}
The PURPOSE of the Trolls and their DISRUPTIVE TACTICS, is to CREATE A NEGATIVE ATMOSPHERE. Sort of a "Plague On Both Your Houses!" thing. To LESSEN THE ENTHUSIASM FOR GOING TO THE POLLS. That is the "why" of their CURRENT "Lesser of two Evils" talk the Trolls are INSTRUCTED to make.

{If THAT falls flat on its face, as did the "I voted for Obama but am now voting for Romney" schtick - as so many pointed out, the REPUGS by the hundreds, are now voting for OBAMA this time around! - if that tactic BOMBS, then be assured the Koch brothers and their professional admen and propagandists, will come up with another goodie -- and ALL THE TROLLS WILL FALL INTO LOCKSTEP BEHIND THAT LITTLE NUMBER!!!}

They are NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE US. Just to make us SICK OF THE WHOLE THING. So we might be too "tired of it all" to get out and GET OUR FRIENDS TO VOTE TOO!

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Posted: Sep 3, 2012 3:59am
Jul 23, 2012
Focus: Freedom of Expression
Action Request: Think About
Location: United States
I got this message yesterday, from S. This is the abbreviated letter, and my abbreviated answer to it. Plus some notes following.
Have you read this thread?  

There's a new troll (just joined today) who is really attacking members and calling them vile names. I commented to him basically what you told me to. Read it and see if it was OK.

'I see that you just joined today and we all know the RNC has hired a bunch of people to come and disrupt liberal blogs. If you are one of them...'{I ended the quote here. BMT}
My reply:


That Cause thread got very early to the point where I, personally, would just give it up -- certain subjects {such as immigration} I personally tend to avoid as much as possible, as I think my limited time is better spent elsewhere! Not that I think EVERYbody should do that -- SOMEbody needs to hold the fort. And maybe even keep arguing & arguing with the trolls -- some don't seem to mind it. It's just not my "thing" -- one person can't do everything!

That said, I'm glad you drew my attention to that, as otherwise I would've skipped it for the reasons stated above.  I think some threads just need to close, as eventually they all do. Let the troll have the "last word"! They don't change any minds!

 I have noticed that C2 is weird about "political trolls" -- they use the excuse of "free speech"; sometimes I wonder, and other people have too, if some sort of a "deal" has been made, C2 can continue to exist if the trolls are allowed to speak! After all, there are powerful forces who DON'T WANT the kind of speech on a Forum that C2 provides! Are we being paranoid? Well, it's speculation! Otherwise, hard to figure out what's going on!


We need to STAY CALM -- what the trolls are trying to do, is NOT to "convince" anybody, rather, they want to make us mad and lose our cool and DESCEND TO THEIR LEVEL AND LOOK LIKE FOOLS!!! THEN, people will look at Care2 "political" threads and think, this is a silly and ridiculous place for me to spend my time! I will just go elsewhere! The trolls DON'T MIND how silly and stupid they look -- AS LONG AS THEY CAN GET US TO DO THE SAME!!! Their END goal, is NOT to "win" the discussion -- but to DEGRADE and ultimately, STOP IT ENTIRELY! I mean like ENTIRELY, not just on the thread they are on!!


I have been thru all this BEFORE, on C2, years ago! With trolls named Jeffrey and Rusty -- who knows if these are the same ones, or new ones! no difference! [David B. sounds suspiciously the same, to me! But, maybe they are just reading out of the same playbook!]

BMutiny T       Barbara

The RNC is the Republican National Committee. A while ago, a Care2 member accessed their site, and found how they were encouraging the trolls to do their thing all over the Internet! including of course Care2; and, moreover, found the TALKING POINTS FOR EACH DAY, listed!!!!!! THAT'S WHY THE TROLLS SOUND ALIKE WHEREVER THEY APPEAR! {A recent ploy, for example, is for Trolls to say "they are Independents and voted for Obama -- but now, they've seen the light, Obama is a dictator, tyrant, Marxist, Obamacare is taking away our freedoms, etc. -- so they are voting for ROMNEY!" NOT a valid criticism of Obama from the Left, as a REAL Independent would make!!!} Anyway, that site is more difficult to access now, so we probably can't get to it! We can only see the results......

And, IT IS EXPLICITLY AGAINST THE CARE2 CODE OF CONDUCT, TO VILIFY AND ENGAGE IN PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST CARE2 MEMBERS. Such posts need to ALWAYS BE FLAGGED. However, be warned that Care2's enforcement of such rules, is shall-we-say "spotty". Care2's excuse is 1, they're very busy {I believe it}, and, 2, Free Speech {see my and others' doubts, above}.

Read more:

Actually, that thread is RIDICULOUSLY long by now, I wouldn't want to encourage anybody to post there! Just note David B., the NEW TROLL!

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Posted: Jul 23, 2012 10:07am
Jul 19, 2012

Somebody asked me: "Is there a way to get rid of trolls such as E..... and S..... who are there only to cause trouble? I complain about them constantly but get no help from Care2....."

You can get rid of them if they BREAK CARE2'S RULES OF CONDUCT.

Care2's "terms of service" are at the very, very bottom of this page.

I haven't looked at them recently. Care2 used to have a "Code of Conduct" in addition to the "terms of service"; and it used to be accessible. Maybe it still is.

Anyway, according to the "Code of Conduct", it was AGAINST THE RULES FOR A CARE2 MEMBER TO PERSONALLY ATTACK ANOTHER CARE2 MEMBER. You could attack someone's OPINIONS or IDEAS. But you couldn't, for example, call them an "Idiot".

Of course, the Right-wingers on Care2 DID THAT ALL THE TIME. There were a couple in particular..... probably not these same 2! That was a long time ago! Years ago!

You realize, that for the most part, THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING PAID BY THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE, the RNC. They get their TALKING POINTS directly from the RNC. {It's good to remind other people of that, now and again!} A Care2 member actually went to the RNC site and saw the talking points posted.... now that site is more difficult to access!!!

Anyway, if you want to fight these people, you have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL, NOT TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING, YOURSELF -- that is, attack personally, other Care2 members! THEY WILL USE THAT AGAINST YOU IF THEY CAN! They have absolutely no shame!

We had a big battle a few years back, against similar trolls. WE HAD TO GET UP ALL SORTS OF PETITIONS, TO GET CARE2 TO FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES!!!!!!!!!!! Care2 would "temporarily" block these people, then these people would just come back and do the exact same thing again!!! Finally, FINALLY after a huge battle, we DID get Care2 to follow their own rules, and these people wised up, and were obnoxious but did not make any more personal attacks.

You can ONLY "get" them IF THEY MAKE A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU OR ON ANY OTHER CARE2 MEMBER. For example, they CAN say that "Gays are Evil", etc., that is allowed....... but they CAN'T say "Sharon is a disgrace to the human race", etc. By the exact same token, YOU can't say "Elaine is a disgrace to the human race", etc., IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE THAT TACTIC..... BECAUSE IF YOU DO, THEY ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO USE IT AGAINST YOU. Even if THEY "started it"!

There SHOULD be a way to say, These are just TROLLS who MERELY WANT TO MAKE TROUBLE and are NOT BELONGING HERE IN THIS DISCUSSION. But I guess that falls under "the right of Free Speech". I guess the answer is to ignore them, pass over them as if they said NOTHING. Or, attack right-wingers AS A GROUP, not as the people posting: as in, RIGHT-WINGERS ARE ALL IDIOTS. If you are very witty and clever, RIDICULE can sometimes CRUSH them! The BEST answer I've heard yet, is somebody recently said to a right-wing troll, "If they saw the inanity of your remarks, the Koch brothers would stop paying you"!!!!!!!!!!!! Oooooooh, so clever!!!!!!!! on so many levels! [And within the rules, too!]

Since they are often capable of nothing but what I call "one-line zingers', I like to sometimes CRUSH them with an AVALANCHE OF WELL-RESEARCHED FACTS!!! You have noticed, no doubt, that my posts tend to be somewhat long! SOMEtimes, that will CRUSH them and shut them up! Another GOOD thing to do, is to figure out WHAT THEY, THE TROLLS POSTING ON BEHALF OF THE RNC, WANT LEAST TO BE POSTED -- AND THEN POST THAT!!! By that I mean -- you don't have to ANSWER the trolls' nonsense! That is letting THEM "frame the conversation"! You can say ANYTHING YOU DARN WELL WANT TO, after the Trolls have posted! Say something really EMBARASSING [but well-researched and true!] about the Repukelican candidates, f'rinstance...... do this after each obnoxious post by a troll, so that it's INEVITABLE......

In conclusion, DON'T LET THE TROLLS "FRAME" AND GUIDE THE CONVERSATION. And, NEVER, NEVER DESCEND TO THEIR LEVEL. {I know, I have, but only once or twice, we all are tempted!} THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE TROLLS WANT -- WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR -- TO DEGRADE THE CONVERSATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. As much as is in their power to do so. Don't GIVE them that power. Talk AROUND them and PAST them and STICK TO YOUR GUNS!!!!!! Both intellectually and morally!

[You can actually turn THEM into a platform, for saying stuff you want to say! In other words, TURN THE TABLES on them, take ADVANTAGE..... if you have that perspective in mind!] [Trolls learned to avoid places I posted in......] So, I hope my "experience" has been a mite helpful.......

BMutiny T     Barbara

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Posted: Jul 19, 2012 11:42am


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