Ron, the last quote you gave me does not apply in this situation. "Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt." may apply better in a situation where one can take calculated risk, for example in business or in sports or in similar things to achieve a desired or attainable dream or goal in life and such. Unfortunately, believing in the invisible or after life is a whole different ball game...

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"Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise." ~ William Shakespeare

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." ~ Thomas Jefferson.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." ~ Bertrand Russell

"Men become civilized, not in proportion to their willingness to believe, but in proportion to their readiness to doubt." ~ H. L. Mencken

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." ~ Clarence Darrow

"What is wanted is NOT the WILL to BELIEVE, but the WISH to FIND out." ~ Bertrand Russell

Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death. ~ Miguel de Unamuno

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"Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good we oft might win
By fearing to attempt."
William Shakespeare

Namaste

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No Ron, I'm not an engineer. And profession has nothing to do with how well a person practices critical thinking and not magical thinking. There are no "my definition" or "your definition" to a certain word. All definitions can be found in any dictionaries which carries out similar meanings which we choose to use to communicate with each other.

The universe is boundless, as well as the human spirit indeed, as in, in its determination, not spiritual ghosts. I know the universe exist, but I don't know any ghosts exists.

I am not looking for things to be black and white nor in color. I just know that what is black is black, what is white is white and what is in color is in color. At least, the many different shades and colors in the spectrum truly exist, unlike certain people who claim there are certain invisible colors that only an individual or certain groups of people can see or "know" about.

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Nick... you must be an engineer... Can you give your definition for rational reasoning and logical thinking? I have a feeling that I know and understand the point you are making, and it does bring some interesting thoughts to contemplate. But if you are looking for things to be black and white then you may also know that there are many different shades and colors in the spectrum. The universe is boundless as well as the human spirit.

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At many times, the word "open minded" is abused and twisted according to ones need and motives. The usual case is, one is considered "closed minded" when one disagrees with someone, and one is considered "open minded" when one agrees with someone.

True open mindedness is not when one agrees with one another or not. True open mindedness is when one is willing to explore other possibilities and explanations. And true close mindedness is when is not willing to explore other possibilities and explanation.

Of course, possibilities and explanations must be within rational reasoning and logical thinking. No if's, no buts. No proof, no talk.

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Dixon... Yes it is hard work and it does take a commitment; this is True, but this does not make the statement false. This is not beyond any of us; we should be working toward this freedom and should be mindful of all our thoughts. We have a responsibility; first to ourselves and then to everyone else.

"It is the responsibility of the more mindful
to mind the mindless, unminded and unmindful,
with Compassion & Wisdom - if it is not you, who?"

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Ron That is a nice sounding quote and it would be great if it were true. Reality is that we are all biased to some degree and all have certain biases. Becoming truly open minded requires much hard work and commitment.

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I received a quote today that I feel fits this topic...

Zen Master Jizo said that “not knowing is the most intimate thing.” Not knowing means to be open to all eventualities, to not prejudge a person or situation. If your mind is full of preconceived notions, there is no room for an unbiased view. It is like when your hands are full of objects—you cannot pick up anything new. A closed mind causes separation and suspicion. Like an umbrella, a mind is only useful when it is open.

From "Zen in the Workplace: Approaches to Mindful Management," Tricycle, Summer 1996

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Catherine Marr, you say:

"for those who believe, no proof is necessary" - my comments on this is, by doing so you subject yourself to endless blind faith.

then you say,

"for those who don't believe, no proof is enough." - my comments on this is, though the statement is nice to hear, it does not make sense because evidential proof of truth does not demand belief anymore. It exist whether one believes in it or not. Like I said before, the sun exist whether one believes in it or not. But it would be easier for one to believe that the sun exist when it is proven it does exist. If someone does not believe the sun exist, then that person has an inability to reason. And when one says that there's an invisible planet next to sun working as back up power just in case the sun looses its light, and one believes it is in fact true, then it's nothing but an action of blind faith, nothing more and nothing less.

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