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Radical Islam Joins the DNC


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: Democratic National Convention, Muslims, slow takeover )

Beth
- 823 days ago - redstate.com
Starting at the end of this month the Democratic National Convention will open with a focus on Islam. 20,000 Muslims are expected to attend according to the Bureau of Indigenous Muslim Affairs (BIMA), the national Muslim American....



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Comments

Jason S. (57)
Thursday August 23, 2012, 7:40 pm
thanks
 

Beth S. (334)
Thursday August 23, 2012, 8:22 pm
Oh boy! Ever increasing amounts of Radical Muslims influencing the Democratic Party. Wow.

Now we are on our way to become the Muslim Brotherhood's United Caliphate of America.

The Democratic Party, once the bedrock of America, now Dhimmi's selling out to the highest bidder.

It should be called the Dhimmicratic Party.
 

. (7)
Thursday August 23, 2012, 8:29 pm
There used to be a Democratic Whip. Now there's a whole group of Democratic Wimps.

Sickening. Next they'll sell their mothers.
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Thursday August 23, 2012, 8:52 pm
NOTED, THANKS.
 

monica r. (41)
Thursday August 23, 2012, 9:07 pm
Because there's just NO signs or signals, in any way shape or form, that Islamists linked to, say, the Muslim Brotherhood for example, have any influence in our government at all. No, nothing to see here folks.....

If MUSLIMS are concerned (ones who are actually loyal to the USA and like living in a western democracy) we all should be concerned.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Thursday August 23, 2012, 9:10 pm
Great posting from redstate.com. Editor of redstate.com, Eric Erickson tweeted comments such as "Turned on twitter today and there was a barrage of angry feminists upset with me telling them to get in the kitchen and learn to cook"; "Good thing I didn't suggest the feminists ... you know ... shave. They'd be at my house trying a post-birth abortion on me" and "Feminists have no sense of humor, but clearly God did in creating feminists". Glad to see that the standard of posts hasn't changed much for you.
 

monica r. (41)
Thursday August 23, 2012, 9:14 pm
Dhimmicratic party. Ha ha, that is hilarious Beth. Or it would be if it weren't so true. Not that either party has been blameless when it comes to selling out America.

Pigs be upon them. Traitors.
 

CarrieSICK B. (314)
Thursday August 23, 2012, 10:13 pm
Just cannot believe all of this craziness. There is so much unwarranted hatred in this country. What happened and where was I? Feeling so guilty about all of this!
 

Tommy S. (11)
Friday August 24, 2012, 1:20 am
Q.Do the actions of islam mean nothing--- A.Not if you are completely stupid or getting rich
 

Bernard Cronyn (31)
Friday August 24, 2012, 1:28 am
Predictable; I wonder if the USA's favorite Sheikh in chief will there shaking his booty?
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 2:10 am
Do the actions of the the Religious Right, Militant Groups, etc. mean nothing. There is a County Judge ready to defend Lubbock County TX against the invading UN armies. So if you want to talk crazy. Just because T-party friendly website declare someone an enemy of the State, doesn't make it so". Maybe a little more listening to what perhaps the FBI thinks and a little less of what the T-Party Nation, religious right and self described nuts like self described experts like Erickson might be in order. Keep on drinking that Kool-Aid. We certainly don't have to wait for the "terrorists" to ruin the country, nonsense like this already has.
 

Ge M. (218)
Friday August 24, 2012, 3:08 am
Indigenous Muslims? Talk about the victors rewriting history!!

Carrie, this "hatred" is caused by people not wanting America (or any other country) becoming controlled by Sharia law. People do not haves problems with Muslims but the extremism being foisted onto us by far too many people, including yourself, who believe that religious freedom is synonymous with allowing extremist Muslims to foist their beliefs on us.

According to the FBI some 80% of mosques preach sedition and look for volunteers to become home grown terrorists. If you want to live like that then there is a growing selection of countries to which you can travel to. You can admire the non-Muslims, especially Christian and Jews, being killed or forced out of their countries as well as moderate Muslims. We can start with the Middle East and move on to Africa and Indonesia......
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 3:45 am
"The FBI has built a massive network of spies to prevent another domestic attack. But are they busting terrorist plots or leading them?" - Trevor Aaronson

According to the FBI the greatest threats in regard to domestic terrorism is "a single individual driven to hateful attacks based on a particular set of beliefs without a larger group's knowledge or support. In some cases, these lone offenders may have tried to join a group but were kicked out for being too radical or simply left the group because they felt it wasn't extreme or violent enough. We believe most domestic attacks are carried out by lone offenders to promote their own grievances and agendas."They usually possess only a rudimentary knowledge if Islam, and usually quite gullible.

According to Trevor Aaronson, (Democracy Now August 25, 2011) "these are people who are on the fringes of society. They are economically desperate. They are not the smartest of people. And in many cases, they have very crude and elementary understandings of Islam, all of which the informant is able to use against them in the plot. That is, by offering money, for example, or telling the target that the Quran says something that in fact it does not."

Lies My Country Told Me will be interviewing Trevor Aaronson on Saturday, August 25 at 2:00 pm EST specifically on this issue. Trevor is author of "The Terror Factory: Inside the FBI's Manufactured War on Terrorism" (January 2013). He is also co-director of the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and a senior fellow at the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism at Brandeis University. Aaronson has won more than two dozen national and regional awards, including the Molly Prize, the international Data Journalism Award and the John Jay College/Harry Frank Guggenheim Excellence in Criminal Justice Reporting Award.

If anyone has any questions for Trevor, please email us at liesmycountrytoldme@gmail.com. Trevor's article, "The Informants" is an excellent read.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 3:48 am
"According to the FBI some 80% of mosques preach sedition and look for volunteers to become home grown terrorists. "

Considering the FBI states the complete opposite and maintains that the threat comes from the "one wolf" you want to provide some proof for this? Frank Gaffney is not the FBI Gillian, he is a discredited nut.
 

(4)
Friday August 24, 2012, 3:55 am
This must be a GOP lie aiming at a Romney victory in the presidential elections.It's disgusting.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 4:14 am
Sorry meant "lone wolf" not "one". Bistra, also when is something said by anti-Obama, Isalmophobic/hate websites considered credible in their claims of which individuals are terrorists. According to them, anyone who opposes their viewpoint (which is never substantiated with anything other than crap like Frank Gaffney and like minded nuts). What is so particularly disturbing is that the FBI could apply the same tactics to the religious right and end up with the same result. If you seek disgruntled, usually of low intelligence coupled with economic hardship and lead them by the nose to a terrorist plot (provide the idea, the material, target, etc) you can get anyone from the fringes of any group to behave in the same manner. The Tea Party would certainly be susceptible to this as it is built from the shiny object/bored, disaffected housewife syndrome (no disrespect to housewives and those who stay home to raise their children)
 

John W. (5)
Friday August 24, 2012, 5:11 am
How admirable of rthe Democrat Party to reach out to Muslims living in the US in view of the wave of hatred engendered by the other side and its supporters here, especially in view of the many attacks on Islam and Muslims as detailed below.

Of course, the thread titles is a lie - it's simply Muslims who will be participating, not "radical Islam".



Arab-American leader’s grave desecrated at suburban cemetery
BY HUNTER CLAUSS AND CASEY TONER Sun-Times Media August 17, 2012 9:10AM
For many years, Hassan M. Abdallah was the face of Arab Americans in Chicago.

http://www.suntimes .com/news/ 14549638- 418/muslim- graves-desecrate d-at-evergreen- park-cemetery. html



Attacks on US Muslims create Eid worry
Religious sites targeted before holiday, as congressman says 'radical' Muslims 'try to kill Americans every week'.
Matthew Cassel Last Modified: 19 Aug 2012 07:04

http://www.aljazeer a.com/indepth/ features/ 2012/08/20128171 1826930331. html

Video: Firebomb Thrown at Florida Muslim Family's Home (CAIR)

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=-zPcqoYBIGA

Panama City police are investigating what appears to be a fire bombing in the Forest Park area.

Spate of attacks near Ramadan trouble U.S. Muslims
By Yasmin Amer and Moni Basu, CNN
August 22, 2012 -- Updated 0521 GMT (1321 HKT)

http://edition. cnn.com/2012/ 08/18/us/ ramadan-violence /index.html

Muslim group: Republican ‘Islamophobia machine’ encouraging violent attacks
By Stephen C. Webster
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:01 EDT

http://www.rawstory .com/rs/2012/ 08/14/muslim- group-republican -islamophobia- machine-encourag ing-violent- attacks/


Man arrested for shooting at Chicago-area mosque
CHRISTINE ROBERTS
Sunday, August 12, 2012

http://articles. nydailynews. com/2012- 08-12/news/ 33171054_ 1_chicago- area-mosque- chief-mark- erickson- ramadan


Islamic School Hit With Acid-Filled Bottle In Lombard
August 13, 2012 12:06 PM

http://chicago. cbslocal. com/2012/ 08/13/islamic- school-hit- with-acid- filled-bottle- in-lombard/


Vandals fire paintballs at Oklahoma City mosque; group calls for hate-crime investigation
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
August 13, 2012 - 9:06 am EDT

http://www.therepub lic.com/view/ story/f8f5099010 b140c6ae3a1a4b4c b16d90/OK- -Oklahoma- Mosque-Vandalism


August 8, 2012
Arson, vandalism at mosques not uncommon
From staff reports
news@joplinglobe. com

http://www.joplingl obe.com/crime_ and_courts/ x1402350145/ Arson-vandalism- at-mosques- not-uncommon

JOPLIN, Mo. — Three suspicious fires within four years at the mosque west of Joplin are part of a national trend.

[....]

Among the attacks on mosques in the past two years have been these, according to the council:

• In July, a South Carolina mosque was vandalized when someone threw a large outdoor concrete ashtray through a window.

• In June, the Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations called on the FBI to investigate a possible bias motive for a fire and hate graffiti targeting a building associated with a Dearborn mosque.

• In April, someone threw a rock through a rear window of the Bab E Mustafa Community Center in the Riverview area of Baltimore County, Md.

• In January, the Council on American-Islamic Relations called on the FBI and local law enforcement to investigate vandalism targeting a mosque under construction in Virginia. Vandals smashed glass in windows and doors of the Chantilly mosque, causing an estimated $60,000 in damage.

• A mosque in Queens, N.Y., was firebombed in January with worshippers inside. There were no injuries.

• An Oct. 31, 2011, arson fire at a mosque in Wichita, Kan., caused an estimated $120,000 in damage.

• An arson attack on a Houston, Texas, mosque was reported in May 2011.

• In April 2011, someone burned three copies of the Quran, the Muslim holy book, and left a threatening letter near the entrance of the Islamic Center of Springfield, Mo., mosque. The anonymous letter claimed that Muslims would “stain the earth” and that Islam wouldn’t survive.

• A fire at a Kansas City mosque in February 2011 was termed “suspicious.”

• Construction equipment was set afire at the site of a mosque being built in Murfreesboro, Tenn., in August 2010.


Missouri mosque razed by second fire in weeks
Investigators look for evidence of arson after mosque in southern US city of Joplin is burned to the ground.
Last Modified: 07 Aug 2012 08:30

http://www.aljazeer a.com/news/ americas/ 2012/08/20128769 38375645. html


Romney in Israel: Palestinian Culture Is Inferior
Charles Johnson
Politics • Mon Jul 30, 2012 at 10:03 am PDT • Views: 19,509

http://littlegreenf ootballs. com/article/ 40675_Romney_ in_Israel- _Palestinian_ Culture_Is_ Inferior


Zelenik: "15% Of Islam Is A Religion, 85% Political."
Posted: Jul 27, 2012 11:32 PM GDT

http://www.newschan nel5.com/ story/19134302/ zelenick- 15-of-islam- is-a-religion- 85-political


The Craziest GOP House Race of the Year
Lawsuits, conspiracy theories, super-PACs, and an anti-Islam sugar daddy: This conservative- on-conservative rematch has it all.
—By Tim Murphy | Mon Jul. 30, 2012 3:00 AM PDT

http://www.motherjo nes.com/politics /2012/07/ lou-ann-zelenik- congress


Murphy: Colorado Muslims wonder if theater shooter might have been noticed
POSTED: 07/23/2012 01:00:00 AM MDT
UPDATED: 07/24/2012 10:09:09 AM MDTBy Chuck Murphy
The Denver Post

http://www.denverpo st.com/murphy/ ci_21134468/ colorado- muslims-wonder- if-theater- shooter-might- have


How We Train Our Cops to Fear Islam
There aren’t nearly enough counterterrorism experts to instruct all of America’s police.
So we got these guys instead.By Meg Stalcup and Joshua Craze

http://www.washingt onmonthly. com/features/ 2011/1103. stalcup-craze. html


Video: Texas Muslim Family's Home Vandalized (CAIR)

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=zAm-3xnfXKw



Mosque attacks common nationwide; imam takes incident in stride
By Roger McKinney
news@joplinglobe. com

http://www.joplingl obe.com/crime_ and_courts/ x2004680390/ Mosque-attacks- common-nationwid e-imam-takes- incident- in-stride


CAIR: Ohio Muslim Policeman’s Suit Says Firing Followed Conversion to Islam
by CAIR on Monday, 2 July 2012 at 19:05 ·

http://www.facebook .com/notes/ cair/cair- ohio-muslim- policemans- suit-says- firing-followed- conversion- to-islam/ 1015095907632444 2


When Your Father Is Accused of Terrorism
Laila Al-Arian June 13, 2012 | This article appeared in the July 2-9, 2012 edition of The Nation.

http://www.thenatio n.com/article/ 168373/when- your-father- accused-terroris m#


Muslims aren't giving up on opening Islamic center
Article by: ROSE FRENCH , Star Tribune Updated: June 13, 2012 - 11:29 PM

http://www.startrib une.com/local/ north/158993595. html?refer= y

St. Anthony's rejection of a proposed Islamic center marks the first time in seven years that a new Muslim house of worship has been blocked by a local government in Minnesota.


Fear and Loathing of Islam
Moustafa Bayoumi June 14, 2012 | This article appeared in the July 2-9, 2012 edition of The Nation.

http://www.thenatio n.com/article/ 168383/fear- and-loathing- islam

Deploying Informants, the FBI Stings Muslims
Petra Bartosiewicz June 13, 2012

http://www.thenatio n.com/article/ 168380/deploying -informants- fbi-stings- muslims


Islamophobia and Its Discontents
Laila Lalami June 13, 2012 | This article appeared in the July 2-9, 2012 edition of The Nation.

http://www.thenatio n.com/article/ 168379/islamopho bia-and-its- discontents

The True Story of Sharia in American Courts
Abed Awad June 13, 2012 | This article appeared in the July 2-9, 2012 edition of The Nation.

http://www.thenatio n.com/article/ 168378/true- story-sharia- american- courts

The Long Roots of the NYPD Spying Program
Ramzi Kassem June 13, 2012 | This article appeared in the July 2-9, 2012 edition of The Nation.

http://www.thenatio n.com/article/ 168376/long- roots-nypd- spying-program


The Sugar Mama of Anti-Muslim Hate
Max Blumenthal June 13, 2012 | This article appeared in the July 2-9, 2012 edition of The Nation.

http://www.thenatio n.com/article/ 168374/sugar- mama-anti- muslim-hate
 

Carol H. (229)
Friday August 24, 2012, 5:11 am
noted, thanks
 

CarrieSICK B. (314)
Friday August 24, 2012, 5:44 am
Oh my! What is going on here? I am really tired of all of this prejudice and unwarranted hatred. What is happening here? Gillian, get a life!
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 6:31 am
I think it is pretty clear from the FBI itself and subsequent study of this phenomena, one of the best ways of creating radicalization is by doing exactly what this article does. It paints virtually all people who practice Islam as radicalized Muslims just creating more and more distrust between the Muslim communities and the government agencies which are responsible for the safety of American citizens. By targeting them or labelling groups only leads to resentment and certainly gives those who are on the fringes of society a valid reason to actually start to begrudge the government. The funny thing Carrie is the same people who continually post this type of inflammatory rhetoric, are the same ones who would easily fall prey to the FBI tactics of "creating" a terrorist. The people I am referring to and you will know who they are, are the same ones who read thoroughly discredited material and try to pawn it off as some sort of essential truth. Trevor Aaronson should be very interesting. It is shameful that people will actually post stuff like this without even making the most superficial search on the source they are citing to begin with. Only in America....
 

Rob and Jay B. (121)
Friday August 24, 2012, 10:27 am
Why are some people so supportive of this flood of 20,000 Muslims to influence this party? You know very well you'd be the first to complain if it were 20,000 Catholics, Mormons, Southern Baptists, Arms manufacturers etc etc etc. Why shouldn't people be concerned about 20,000 Muslims turning up for the Democratic Convention? No other group is pressing so hard to force their agenda on everyone else, other than the right wing evangelicals and they aren't calling for those who leave their group or criticize it and gay people to be killed, as Islam does.

Lies my CTM, You are falling for another one right now. You obviously know nothing about islam and its agenda in the US and world.

Here are some facts you can ignore along with Carrie etal:

THIS IS AN EXCELLENT REPORT FROM DUKE UNIV. ABOUT THE YEAR BY YEAR INCIDENTS OF MUSLIM TERROR ATTACKS - APPREHENDED AND STOPPED BEFORE THEY OCCURED OR AFTER THE FACT:

Duke University research reports during the ten years that followed 911 “Almost 200 Muslim-Americans have been involved in violent plots of terrorism over this decade, and more than 400 Muslim-Americans have been indicted or convicted for supporting terrorism.” See conclusion on page 8 of report

http://sanford.duke.edu/centers/tcths/documents/Kurzman_Muslim-American_Terrorism_in_the_Decade_Since_9_11.pdf ALSO SEE:

SUNNI MUSLIMS COMMITED 70% OF ALL TERRORIST ACTS IN THE WORLD IN 2011:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/sunni-muslim-extremists-committed-70-terrorist-murders-2011 according to a report by the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) 8/3/12

If you knew anything about Islam's teachings you'd know that it DOES teach to kill non-Muslims, especially Jews. It DOES preach world conquest and commands all Muslims to use any method they can to 'gain advantage' over us infidels in order that Islam will prevail and rule us, that includes lying.

How dare you talk about 'hate' speech when Islam is the most hateful ideology on earth! The Qur'an has 109 verses of hate and violence toward non-Muslims, the hadith and sira many more. The Muslim holy trilogy has more hate toward Jews alone than did Hitler's MeinKampf. Where are your priorities? What just exactly will you continue to tolerate?

How much hate and subversion does Islam have to spew before you decide you care more for its victims than this ideology of hate and death?

Ask your nice peaceful Muslims if they renounce Mohammed's commands to kill those who criticize or leave Islam and gay people. See just how nice they are.

A lot of Muslims know little about true Islam, but very few of them, you note, ever condemn Orthodox Muslims' violent jihad. They silently seem to be supporting it if they don't rise up against it.

You criticize every other group/ideology that preaches hate and prejudice - EXCEPT Islam. Why. What's come over you to defend this demeaner of women, condoner of marrying little girls off to filthy pedophiles (like Mohammed himself did with a 6 y/o girl).

You so-called 'liberals' who seem to tolerate intolerance ought to examine your values. Do; you oppose the killing of gays? Of people who leave Islam or question it? Do you think women are equal to men - Islam makes it very clear that they aren't and that's why Muslim occupied lands haven't signed on to the UN Declaration of Human Rights - they have their own - The Cairo Declaration because western ideas of human equality and rights contradict Sharia law and Islamic teachings.

You don't seem to understand. It isn't possible for Islam to reform and eject all the hate (there wouldn't be much left if it did) because the Qur'an says that every word in it is from Allah's lips and perfect for all time. To question, criticize or remove even one word is heresy, and that is the death penalty in this religion of peace and tolerance.

Read the Qur'an LMCTM and Carrie. Read the Hadith, at least Buhkhari. They will sicken you too. We're embarrassed to say we used to be as naive as you are until we read these vile books. We side with the victims of islam. You side with the victimizer with your unwarranted defense of this ugly 'religion'. Shame on you.
 

Carola May (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 10:32 am
So why isn't the Church of Scientology invited to send 20,000 and get special recognition and a chance to proselytize? Why are the Buddhists and Hindus being discriminated against since they are growing much faster than Islam in the US, but don't make any waves? Why just Muslims? This is disturbing.
 

CarrieSICK B. (314)
Friday August 24, 2012, 12:26 pm
Carola, this is just my opinion, but I have a feeling there are some people who have posted here who actually hate people equally - it just seems to be to their benefit at this time to attack Muslims. Again, just my opinion.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 12:56 pm
Rob/

Rob/Jay:

May I call you Rob? or shall I call you Jay? I am unsure which party I am addressing.

The Muslims you refer to are American citizens. Why shouldn't they go to the Democratic National Convention? I am sure that at least 20,000 of the Religious Right will be attending the Republican National Convention and they are just as much a credible threat as American Muslims.

So Rob or Jay, who specifically is providing you with all your information you claim we are not understanding? Could it be Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, David Horowitz, Ann Coulter, Frank Gaffney or Eric Erickson (editor of the website that this load of crap came from) et al? How about the FBI itself or credible counter terrorism experts who actually are trained specifically in this? Hmmm….. tough one?? Blogger, self described "experts" who profit immensely or real organizations and people whose life work is in this domain? Not an easy choice when you are an intellect who fled the US due to its stupidity.

You supplied a report that you obviously didn't read. I don't know if the intellectualism in Spain is through osmosis rather than reading, but the link you provided only went to the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, not to the pdf itself.

In addition, you failed to provide the correct title of the "EXCELLENT REPORT FROM DUKE UNIV." which was entitled "Muslim American Terrorism Since 9/11: Why So Rare?.

From the "EXCELLENT REPORT FROM DUKE UNIV." which you just provided for us:

"The two largest sources of initial information — 48 cases each — involved tips from the Muslim-American community and ongoing government investigations. (The figure for Muslim-American tips does not include information delivered by government questioning of terrorism suspects.)"

This means that the 20,000 people you are complaining about may be the same ones that are providing authorities with valuable information regarding radicalization.

From the report:

This research identified five ways in which Muslim-American communities may have minimized radicalization: (excerpt from total document, feel free to read whole document)

1. Public and Private Denunciations of Violence. Since 9/11, Muslim-American communities have been very vocal in denouncing terrorist violence. Much of this has gone unnoticed in the mainstream press, and many Americans wonder — erroneously— why Muslims have been silent on the subject.

Far from being silent, Muslim-Americans have issued press releases, spoken out in mosques, and created community organizations to convey the message, in public and in private, that terrorism is religiously prohibited and strategically foolish.

2. Self-Policing. Muslim-Americans’ statements denouncing terrorism have been reinforced with concrete actions in their communities to monitor signs of radicalization.

The rarity of terrorism in the United States means that few Muslim-Americans have ever encountered an actual terrorist, or even an individual who has expressed a willingness to engage in violence.

Nonetheless, our research indicates that Muslim-Americans are engaged in a heightened level of self-policing against radicalization that may help to account for the infrequency of terrorist activities by Muslim-Americans.


3. Community-Building. Of Muslim-Americans who have engaged in terrorist violence since September 11, 2001, some were loners who had little connection to any community at all; some had deeper connections abroad than locally; and some had stronger ties with a handful of buddies than with their community as a whole. There appear to have been few who were well-integrated into Muslim-American organizations.

More commonly, as in the case of the seven men in North Carolina who were indicted on terrorism-related charges in 2009, the individuals were initially integrated into the community, but as they radicalized, they left their communal organizations and became more isolated.

This image runs counter to some of the concerns expressed by non-Muslim Americans about Islamic organizations in the United States, which they perceive are channels for radicalization. Our evidence suggests the opposite: Muslim-American community-building is a significant factor in the prevention of radicalization. Muslim-American community-building includes a variety of activities, some openly religious and some not. Our interview respondents and almost all observers agree that Muslim-Americans have stepped up community-building in all forms over the past two decades, especially since 9/11. The direct goal of these activities is not to prevent radicalization, though that may have been an unintended outcome. Instead, these activities are intended to strengthen Muslim-American communities and serve community goals, which include protecting Muslim-Americans’ rights, deepening community members’ faith, and spreading the message of Islam to non-Muslims.

4. Political Engagement. A further set of efforts that Muslim-Americans have undertaken since September 11, 2001, involve participation in the democratic politics of the United States. As with other activities of Muslim-American communities, the primary goal is not preventing radicalization, but is, instead, the defense of the rights and interests of Muslim-Americans in a political environment that they experience as threatening. Nonetheless, this political mobilization has the effect of channeling grievances into democratic forums and integrating Muslim-Americans into the democratic system.

5. Identity Politics. The expression of a Muslim-American identity has taken on an increasingly assertive tone in the years since the 9/11 attacks. This trend has taken the form of young women wearing headscarves at political rallies, young men growing beards as an embodiment of their faith, workers in various industries claiming the right to take breaks for prayers; parents sending their children to Islamic schools, and other public expressions of Islamic piety.

While some observers are concerned that heightened expressions of Muslim American piety may be a sign of impending radicalization, there is evidence to the contrary. The Pew Research Center’s 2007 survey of Muslim-Americans found that respondents who said religion was very important in their lives were one-third less likely than other respondents to consider attacks on civilians to be sometimes or often justified “in order to defend Islam from its enemies.” (Justifications of these attacks were very unlikely — under 10 percent — among both sets of Muslim-American respondents. By way of comparison, according to a separate poll of a national sample, 24 percent of Americans considered “bombing and other types of attacks intentionally aimed at civilians” to be sometimes or often justified.)

Also in the same report, “Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca, who was nominated by Democrats on the House committee. Baca testified”

“Since we are gathered to share information about the American Muslim Community and its response to radicalization, I can deliver very good news. The Muslim Community in Los Angeles is an active participant in the securing of our Homeland. . . . The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department has long been a
leader in the development of relationships with the various ethnic, cultural and religious communities that thrive in the Los Angeles area. Nowhere is that relationship more positive than that which exists between my agency and the American Muslim Community. We have established strong bonds through continuing outreach and physical presence at events important to the community and law enforcement.”

The above was paraphrased, but obviously is completely different than what you are inferring.

You have demonstrated time after time how bigoted and racist you are. I am providing you with facts FROM THE REPORT YOU PROVIDED, cited and lauded as “excellent”. You want to get into this with me on this, Rob/Jay? I have no problem addressing this issue. This type of inflammatory rhetoric is unacceptable. If you want to cite something in your posts, I suggest you read them and let them percolate in order for you to actually understand what you are reading. I guess all of that intellectualism is just clouding your ability to comprehend what you read.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 12:58 pm
Carola - how many religious tea party members do you think will be at the RNC? These are the same people who forget that there is a separation between church and state.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 2:00 pm
"You so-called 'liberals' who seem to tolerate intolerance ought to examine your values. Do; you oppose the killing of gays?"

This is completely offensive. I have probably advocated a lot more than you ever have for the LGBT community. Just because you are gay Rob/Jay, doesn't really make you a champion of the LGBT community. You really think that the religious right and Tea-baggers are going to stand up for your rights? How about you check out some of the rhetoric that the Tea-party and GOP spew? You want to demonize a population of people, have no problem spewing complete distortion, manipulation and outright lies and then you are going to try to get into it with me about the LGBT community? You are unbelievable. I must certainly say what is Spain's "gain" is certainly not the US's loss.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Friday August 24, 2012, 2:33 pm
Rob/Jay:


"Ask your nice peaceful Muslims if they renounce Mohammed's commands to kill those who criticize or leave Islam and gay people. See just how nice they are. " and "Do; you oppose the killing of gays?"

You are an offensive man (men???) and just because you are gay, doesn't mean that you are an advocate for tthe LGBT community. Obviously not, when you seem to have no problem with doing to others what others have done to the LGBT community. As for Muslims and gays, how about Christians (the Baggers) and the gay community?

From Huffington Post

1. Bryan Fischer: Gay Adoption Is 'A Form Of Child Abuse'
The American Family Association evangelist sounded off on a controversial study about gay parenting, which claimed to find disadvantages for children raised by same-sex parents. Fischer spoke about the study on his "Focal Point" talk show, labeling adoption by same-sex couples as "a form of child abuse."

Of course, Fischer didn't stop there, making a point to condemn gay sex, too. "The sex that's involved in homosexual behavior -- it's unnatural, it is immoral and it is unhealthy," he proclaimed.


2. Bryan Fischer Compares Gays To Cannibals
"It is altogether right for a rational culture to discriminate against homosexual behavior," Fischer said. "I am saying, yes, that's exactly what DOMA does and it should...because [homosexuality] is not a benign alternative to heterosexuality...we ought to discriminate."

Right Wing Watch also noted that Fischer's declarations echoed those made in a blog piece he wrote last week, in which he compared LGBT people to the disturbing spate of cannibalism cases currently making headlines.


3. Pastor Worley: Gays And Lesbians Should Be Put In An Electrified Pen And Ultimately Killed Off
The pastor, identified on YouTube as Charles L. Worley of Providence Road Baptist Church in Maiden, N.C., condemns President Obama's much-publicized endorsement of same-sex marriage while calling for gays and lesbians to be put in an electrified pen and ultimately killed off.

"Build a great, big, large fence -- 150 or 100 mile long -- put all the lesbians in there," Worley suggests in the clip, reportedly filmed on May 13. "Do the same thing for the queers and the homosexuals and have that fence electrified so they can't get out...and you know what, in a few years, they'll die out...do you know why? They can't reproduce!"


4. Pastor Suggests Gays Should Be Prosecuted Like They Were Historically
Ron Baity, founding pastor of Winston-Salem's Berean Baptist Church and head of the anti-marriage equality organization Return America, referred to homosexuality as "a perverted lifestyle" in a Sunday sermon before telling his congregation that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people should be prosecuted, Good as You is reporting.

"For 300 years, we had laws that would prosecute that lifestyle," he is quoted as saying. "We've gone down the wrong path. We've become so dumb that we have accepted a lie for the truth, and we've...discarded the truth on the shoals of shipwreck!"

5. Pastor Sean Harris: Parents Should 'Punch' Their Effeminate Children
"So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is four years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, 'Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,' you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it and the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed."

6. Pastor Slams Gay Marriage, Suggests Unions Between 'Person And A Beast' Could Be Next
Tim Rabon, pastor at Raleigh's Beacon Baptist Church, condemned states such as Massachusetts, Connecticut and Maryland which have already "re-defined" marriage to include lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) couples.

As heard in this recording, Rabon asked his congregation, "What is stopping them from refining marriage from a person and a beast? We're not far from that."

7. Tamara Scott: Gay Marriage Leads To Eiffel Tower Marriage

One reason Scott said that voters should oppose marriage equality for gay and lesbian couples is that it would open the door for polyamory and legalizing marriages between people and inanimate objects. While speaking with Bob Vander Plaats, the head of The Family Leader, Scott warned that gay rights will lead to people marrying objects like the Eiffel Tower:

8. Bryan Fischer On Why Gays Are Responsible For The Nazi Party

Fischer said gays were responsible for the Holocaust and clarified that he never said anything of the sort. What he said, he explained, was that the Nazi Party was responsible for the Holocaust ... and that gays were responsible for the formation of the Nazi Party:

9. Pastor Wooden Says Gay Sex Causes Gay Men To Need Diapers

Pastor Patrick Wooden made the offending statement in a discussion with Americans For Truth About Homosexuality's (AFTAH) Peter LaBarbera, who organized this week's protest of the Southern Poverty Law Center after they designated AFTAH as an "anti-gay hate group."

"The God of the Bible made the human sperm, the God of the Bible designed it and it was not designed to be emptied into an area that is filled with feces," Wooden said, noting that gay sex would "most certainly mean the extinction of the human race.”

He then added, "Who wants to practice anything that is going to ultimately lead a grown man to about the time he’s in his 40s or 50s, or what not, having to wear a diaper or a 'butt plug' just to be able to contain their bowels?"

10. Linda Harvey of Mission America: Don't Let Gay Doctors Attend To Your Children

Linda Harvey, founder of Mission America, a "Christian pro-family organization tracking current cultural issues," and radio host, has a warning for the parents of America: Don't let your children see gay health practitioners.

"...Select your pediatrician very carefully... There are a few homosexual doctors treating kids, there are far more nurses, LPNs, technicians and other health care workers in these lifestyles so you may want to consider writing a letter that you file with your pediatrician that should your child ever be hospitalized, you do not want your child to be treated or cared for by one of these members of the Children’s Hospital gay employees group except in the case of an emergency situation. But for routine in-hospital care where contact with your child would be required, your values should be respected."

There is a lot more, but I think you get the gist. So before you start doing your re-interpretation of the Quran based on Robert "self described Middle Eastern expert" to do you translation, maybe you should pay attention what other groups say too.

For you to claim that Islam is the most hate filled speech, I must disagree. I actually think that your continual demonization of another faith based group actually takes the prize for hate speech.
 

Carola May (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 1:56 am
My, my, Lies My CTM, talk about demonising a 'faith based group'! You leftist dhimmis are very comfortable with demonising anyone claiming to be Christian, Republican, Mormon, Catholic, Southern Baptist - anyone that is from the West, but you patronise and appease anyone and everything from Islam. What's your reasoning?

You know nothing about Islam and your ignorance if its doctrines of hate, dominance and killing are ugly and distasteful to those of us who care about human rights, including gay rights and women's rights. You obviously don't give a whit about those things.

The people you quote give their opinions. Show us where Jesus said anything against gay people and I'll show you where Mohammed did - he called for them to be' turned out of your houses' and to be killed. No comparison.

Your total lack of information and knowledge on the subject of Islam is alarming. What Islamic ruled land has freedom of religion, speech, conscience and press? None. Islamic doctrine states clearly that Islam can never be equal to any other religion - they are all false. Only Islam has the truth.

If you want quotes of stupidity and hate from individuals we can fill these pages for miles with ugly hateful quotes from a wide range of Muslim leaders, not to mention the evil, mass murdering, pedophile, bandit, liar, rapist, sex slave owner, slave trader, oppressor, Mohammed himself who Islam says is the 'perfect man' and Muslims are to emulate his life! So let's compare the founders of these two ideologies. There's a reason that Hitler loved Islam and 100,000 Muslims volunteered for the Nazi military - to kill Jews.

Ali Gom’a, the grand mufti of Egypt, the highest Muslim religious authority in the world, supports murdering non-Muslims. In the daily Al Ahram (April 7, 2008), he says, “Muslims must kill non-believers wherever they are unless they convert to Islam.” He also compares non-Muslims to apes and pigs, not only the Jews.

Muhammad Sayyid Al Tantawi, president of Al Azhar University (the VAtican of Islam) also approves of killing and maiming Christians, Jews, and other infidels. He added, “This is not my personal view. This what the Shari’a Law says, the law of Allah, the only valid law on the earth.”

And, in case you've not even wondered why Muslims are pouring into western countries:
�One day millions of men will leave the southern hemisphere of this planet to burst into the northern one. But not as friends. Because they will burst in to conquer, and they will conquer by populating it with their children. Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women.� -- Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria
1974 Speech before the United Nations

Omar Ahmad Co-Founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations CAIR-SFBA Executive Committee Member President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies. Former Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP) Officer.
Omar Ahmad was captured on FBI surveillance tapes at Hamas meetings in the U.S.A. during 1993 explaining that the IAP could not, for political reasons, admit its support for Hamas, and then discussing how the Hamas agenda could be cloaked and advanced. He said:
'“Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam … Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.”

Don't you see a pattern here? Islam is not here to assimilate but to dominate. Buddhism and Hinduism are growing much faster than Islam (despite CAIR's propaganda) yet when do you ever hear about them pushing their faiths down our throats and demanding special rights? Only Islam.

It's easy to find so-called Christians who are hateful and violent but they go against the teachings of Jesus, whom you revile, but Muslims who preach hate and do violence are obeying the ugly commands of their hateful 'prophet' Muhammed. Quite a difference. Hard to see how you are not able to comprehend this not so subtle distinction.

When you leftist dhimmis have read the Qur'an, hadith and sira, then come back and we'll talk. Till then you have nothing but tolerance of intolerance to offer.
 

Rob and Jay B. (121)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:01 am
Lies etc, you actually have the nerve to say: 'For you to claim that Islam is the most hate filled speech, I must disagree'!

Give us proof that what we say is wrong. You know nothing about Islam. We can give you a long list of the hate verses from Islamic texts - 109 from the Qur'an alone against all non-Muslims.

Give us the kind, tolerant, loving verses from the Qur'an and hadith toward non-Muslims. The very few there are have all been abrogated/cancelled by the later Meccan verses, but of course being such an expert on Islamic doctrine, you must know that.

Whose side are you defenders of the indefensible on? You are promoting a dogma of hate, conquest, intolerance, pedophilia, murder and oppression.

 

Carola May (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:20 am
Lies My CTM, you unashamedly heap scorn on other people 'Carola - how many religious tea party members do you think will be at the RNC? These are the same people who forget that there is a separation between church and state. '

Why is it then wrong for those of us who know what we're talking about to do the same for Muslims meeting to advance the Islamist agenda at the DNC? Their aims are even more hateful and sinister than the Tea Party's, if you knew anything of the subject. In Islam there is no separation - Islam IS the state.

I oppose most of the agenda of the right wing Tea Party fundamentalists too, but with you and Carrie and other leftists blind to all the hate and violence of islam, that is perfectly OK, isn't it? Just don't offend the Muslim bigots. People just like you also condemned Churchill et al who tried to warn of the dangers of Nazism. Now the danger is Islam. What hypocrites you all are.

Did you two even read the article? Are you also calling Dr. Jasser, a reformist Muslim who wants Islam to come into the 21st century and renounce the hate and violence (he's under a death sentence for suggesting it, of course, from this 'religion of peace and tolerance'),

an 'islamophobe' and hater? HE condemns this group and this meeting too. Read what he says. He knows more than you do.

Your Imam Obama refuses to meet with the good Muslims who want to live within modern laws and renounce all the hate of Islam. Obama has admitted to meeting 'hundreds of times' in secret with CAIR! That should alarm anyone who is concerned with freedom, justice and human rights. He refused to meet with Christian leaders from the Middle East who came to beg his intervention to stop the genocide going on right now against their people in many Muslim occupied lands. He refused to meet them too. What kind of man is this?

OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ADMITS TO 100S OF BEHIND CLOSED DOOR MEETINGS WITH THE MB FRONT CAIR:
http://news.yahoo.com/administration-admits-hundreds-meetings-jihad-linked-group-163206947.html

EGYPTIAN SECULARISTS CONDEMN US/OBAMA’S SUPPORT FOR ISLAMIST MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD (A GOOD QUESTION SINCE O NEVER UTTERED A PEEP IN SUPPORT OF IRANIANS RISING UP TO THROW OFF THEIR ISLAMIC DICTATORS IN 2011): http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/45933/Egypt/Politics-/Egypts-secular-forces-condemn-US-support-for-Musli.aspx
 

Jennifer Ward (40)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:38 am
People everywhere are becoming concerned about Islamic influence. Feeling uneasy about a religious take over is not racism or intolerance or 'hatred'- people want peace and harmony. Stonings, beheadings, female genital mutilation, amputations as punishment are part of Sharia/ customs/ Sunna- whatever. The religiously insistant are always demanding laws and customs be changed to suit them- never mind the feelings and preferred lifestyles or beliefs of the reluctant hosts.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:27 am
You know Rob/Jay;

I am not going to argue the Quran with you.

I just want to remind you that while you continue to claim all things evil spring from the Quran through distortion and lies, is the same thing that the religious right and Tea-bagging GOP say about gays. They also will use all kinds of "experts" to justify their claims. In fact, the author of the article featured here wrote "Liberal Protestantism is in schism by virtue of its endorsement of homosexual sin as acceptable. But not only does Liberal Protestantism accept and endorse homosexual sin as morally acceptable, it does so for a very specific reason and that reason is that it accepts the argument that homosexuals cannot change."

Then we have the editor of Redstate himself, Eric Erickson who stated “Yes, I know about Goodwin’s law, but comparing gay rights activists to the Nazis is fitting. They’ve gone from being persecuted to persecuting. Of course, they’ll say it is all in the fight for their civil rights — much like the Nazis needed to go after people to make things right.”

I have seen what you post which is readily demolished by a five year old. You posted above "You criticize every other group/ideology that preaches hate and prejudice - EXCEPT Islam. Why. What's come over you to defend this demeaner of women, condoner of marrying little girls off to filthy pedophiles (like Mohammed himself did with a 6 y/o girl)."

Do you protest when people like Brian Fischer make claims like the following:

“If the Boy Scouts allowed homosexuals to become scout leaders that would be the end of the Boy Scouts because we know that we we know that pedophilia occurs at excessive rates in the homosexual community. They’re responsible for a third of all the offenses against children even though they’re 2% of the population, so what’s that, 16, 17 times at the rate the general population offends they offend against children. There’s no way parents are going to trust their kids to the Boy Scouts unless unless they are very very careful about screening. They have got to make sure that homosexual pedophiles like this Jerry Sandusky, this Penn State coach, he was a homosexual pedophile and again we’ve got a parade of victims coming through the court room testifying against him. Boy Scouts cannot let anybody like that into the scout troops.”

Again, you have no problem claiming this about Islam using the claim, "Mohammed himself did with a 6 y/o girl" even though the social norms were completely different at the time.

n the 12th century Gratian, the influential founder of Canon law in medieval Europe, accepted age of puberty for marriage to be between 12 and 14 but acknowledged consent to be meaningful if the children were older than 7. Some authorities said consent could take place earlier. Such a marriage would be permanent as long as neither party sought annulment before reaching puberty (12 for girls and 14 for boys) or if they had already consummated the marriage. Even if the husband had technically raped his wife before she reached puberty, the marriage was regarded as consummated. It was this policy which was carried over into English common law, and although consent was necessary, force and influence or persuasion seemed to have been permissible elements. Similarly Gratian's ideas about age became part of European civil law.

Judges honored marriages based on mutual consent at age younger than seven, in spite of what Gratian had said, and there are recorded marriages of two and three year olds. The seventeenth-century lawyer Henry Swinburne distinguished between the marriages of those under seven and those between seven and puberty. He wrote that those under seven who had said their vows had to ratify it afterwards by giving kisses and embraces, by lying together, by exchanging gifts or tokens, or by calling each other husband or wife. A contemporary, Philip Stubbes, wrote that in sixteenth-century East Anglia, infants still in swaddling clothes were married. The most influential legal text of the seventeenth century in England, that of Sir Edward Coke, made it clear that the marriage of girls under twelve was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband's estate was nine even though her husband be only four years old. [Marriageable age, Wikipedia]

The American colonies followed the English tradition, and the law was more of a guide. For example, Mary Hathaway (Virginia, 1689) was only 9 when she was married to William Williams. Sir Edward Coke (England, 17th century) made it clear that "the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband's estate was 9 even though her husband be only four years old. [Encyclopedia of Children and Childhood in History and Society,

In the Islamic tradition following Muhammad, betrothal could take place earlier than PUBERTY, perhaps as early as seven, but the marriage was not supposed to be consummated until the girl menstruated and was of age. [Encyclopedia of Children and Childhood in History and Society]

This is where the duplicity and hypocritical behaviour comes in. You would certainly argue against those who claim pedophelia is resultant of homosexual behaviour (as any thinking person would do), but have no problem making the same claims of another marginalized group.

For instance, you posted this "so please don't confuse pedophilia in Islam with acceptance of real homosexual orientation and relationships."

In the same sentence, you defend what is your own self interest, but then utilize the same tactics to another group. So not only are you selfish where you only defend what touches upon your personal life, but are hypocritical, racist and bigoted. Bravo Rob/Jay.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:39 am
Rob/Jay - also waiting for some kind of response on YOUR posting of what you claimed was "EXCELLENT" and now that it has been used to disarm your argument seems to be forgotten. Did you bother to even read the article????
 

John W. (5)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:43 am
Of course they didn't!
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 4:50 am

Carola, as usual the promoter of nothing but bigotry. Your page claims "End Injustice For All", yet it seems that your idea of justice only applies to specific demographic groups which does not include a faith based population of 1.2 billion people. God forbid that we actually read something based on research and study from people who actually know what they are talking about, when we can just jump onto the usual Islamophobic hate website and like a cow, regurgitate everything read there.

Also on your page, " People who see but prefer to be blind, intolerance, injustice, ignorance, hypocrisy, hate" is what bugs you, yet again, your tolerance for those whose faith differs from what you perceive as norm are not afforded the same.

How about some facts instead for a change.

"Your total lack of information and knowledge on the subject of Islam is alarming."

Considering I haven't ever seen you post one fact on the subject Carola, you are quite amusing. The FBI, the Duke/Sanford reports, the PEW Research, counter terrorist experts etc. seem not to be good enough for you. No, instead we have the lovely bloggers, like Ann Coulter and Robert Spencer who you seem to think are "trailblazers" in the research of Muslim Americans and terrorism.

"The limited scale of Muslim-American terrorism in 2011 runs counter to the fears that many Americans shared in the days and months after 9/11, that domestic Muslim-American terrorism would escalate. [A] spike in terrorism cases in 2009 renewed these concerns, as have repeated warnings from U.S. government officials about a possible surge in homegrown Islamic terrorism. The predicted surge has not materialized." - [Schanzer, David, Charles Kurzman, and Ebrahim Moosa. “Anti-Terror Lessons of Muslim-Americans,” (pdf) doc. no. 229868. Washington, D.C.: National Criminal Justice Reference Service, 2010.]

As the title of Pew Research's 2007 study suggests, Muslim Americans are "middle class and mostly mainstream." Compared with their co-religionists in other Western societies, they are relatively well integrated into mainstream society. Unlike Western Europe's Muslim populations, Muslims in the U.S. are generally as well-educated and financially well-off as the general population. Most (72%) say their communities are good or excellent places to live, and most believe in the American dream -- 71% say that in the U.S., most people who want to get ahead can make it if they are willing to work hard. [Richard Wike, "Little Support for Terrorism Among Muslim Americans", Pew Global Attitudes Project, Greg Smith, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
December 17, 2009

"America’s right-wing extremists commit a vastly greater number of murderous attacks (though leading to fewer deaths) than Muslims do. According to the Extremist Crime Database (ECDB), published by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism, between 1990 and 2010 right-wing extremists carried out 145 murderous attacks, resulting in 348 deaths, 168 of which resulted from the Oklahoma City bombing. During that same time period Muslim extremists committed around 25 attacks, which killed over 3,000 people; but 9/11 accounted for 2,977 of these." [R.F., "The benefits of hindsight", Democracy in America, The Economist, August 15, 2012'

The manner in which the FBI and Homeland Security collect data in regard to domestic terrorism is far from balanced. FBI tactics in regard to "sting" operations which lead to charges of terrorism against Muslim Americans are of the "create a terrorist model" (listen to interview with Trevor Aaronson at 2:00 pm, August 25, 2012) , yet right wing extremists are often not included in data regarding domestic terrorism (see Is this man a terrorist?0. No wonder Americans are so misled. Glenn Carle, a twenty-three-year veteran of the Central Intelligence Agency where he was deputy national intelligence officer for transnational threats, Americans have become “victims of delusion,” displaying a quality defined as “a persistent false belief in the face of strong contradictory evidence.” [Glenn Carle, The Interrogator, pp. 269, 293, 298–299.]

So Carola, you can continue to spew hatred, bigotry and racism based on nonsense or you could really take the time to actually learn the facts.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 5:00 am
1 - Only six verses implicitly teach us to practice tolerance even with Atheists, and tell us to treat non-Muslims with respect but yet disapproval..'

" IN THE NAME OF GOD , THE MERCY- GIVING , THE MERCIFUL
* SAY 'O DISBLIEVERS
I DO NOT WORSHIP WHAT YOU WORSHIP
NOR ARE YOU WORSHIPPING WHAT I DO
I WILL NOT WORSHIP WHAT YOU HAVE WORSHIPPED,
NEITHER WILL YOU WORSHIP WHAT I WORSHIP
YOU HAVE YOUR RELIGION
AND I HAVE MY RELIGION


2 - “Say Truth is from your Lord; let him who will believe, and let him who will disbelieve “(Alkahf: 29)


3 - “If your Lord had so wished, everyone on earth would have believed, All of them together “(Yuns (Jonah): 99)


4 - “You do not guide someone you love, but God guides those whom he wishes, and HE is quite aware as to who are guided “(Alkasas: 56)


5 - "Don't argue with the people of the book unless it is in the politest manner. Except for those of them who do wrong, say we believe in what has been sent down to us and what has been sent down to you. Our god and your god is (the same) ONE and we are committed to observe peace before him “.
(The spider 29:46)

6 - "Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in a ways that are best and most gracious; for thy Lord knows the best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance." (An-Nahl 16:125)

7 - “O ye who believe!
Violate not the sanctity of the symbols of God, nor of the sacred month, nor of the animals brought for sacrifice, nor the garlands that mark out such animals, nor the people resorting to the Sacred House, seeking of the bounty and good pleasure of their Lord.
But when ye are clear of the Sacred Precincts and of pilgrim grab, ye may hunt AND LET NOT THE HATRED OF SOME PEOPLE IN (ONCE) SHUTTING YOU OUT OF THE SACRED MOSQUE LEAD YOU TO TRANSAGRESSION (AND HOSTILITY ON YOUR PART).
HELP YOU ONE ANOTHER RIGHTEOUSNESS AND PIETY, BUT HELP YE NOT ONE IN SIN AND RANCOUR:
Fear God for God is strict in punishment”
(Alameda 5:3)
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 5:23 am
I have seen a lot of hatred on this post from some commentators whom I know will go to any post that mentions the word Islam and start spitting their poison against Islam and Muslims for no reason but their sickness.They are in most cases infected by a disease called "Islamophobia".Their daily and only job is to destroy the image of Islam depending on Hatred websites that ,in turn,focuses,ignorantly,on some verses of the Quran that was revealed on a specific occasion or during the torture and harassment early Muslims faced and were subject to by the non believers.The Quran has been revealed over 23 years addressing questions,problems,incidents,causes .....etc.as it happens.When you mention a verse in the Quran,you have to know when and why it has been revealed and whether it addresses a temporary situation or a general rule.Islam haters don't and won't do that.They just rush and seize any opportunity to attack Islam and Muslims.To those I say "PEACE ON YOU" . This is what Islam instructs Muslims to do when they are subject to fight or insult from foolish and ignorant people.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 5:29 am
"Why is it then wrong for those of us who know what we're talking about to do the same for Muslims meeting to advance the Islamist agenda at the DNC? Their aims are even more hateful and sinister than the Tea Party's"

Are you out of your gourd Carola? We have a judge in Texas who is getting ready for the UN invasion of West Texas if Obama is reelected. The statistics regarding domestic terrorism between 1980 - 2005 show that there is more right wing extremist terrorism either carried out or foiled on US soli than any Islamic radical extremist terrorism. Even Jewish terrorism between those years (Which include post 9/11 years) are higher than Islamic extremist terrorism. These are from the FBI's own stats Carola. Maybe a little more reading and a little less drinking of the Kool-Aid.

You have a lot of nerve to comment that I have "unashamedly heap scorn on other people" by daring to ask 'Carola - how many religious tea party members do you think will be at the RNC?". This is while you are posting almost the identical question, "So why isn't the Church of Scientology invited to send 20,000 and get special recognition and a chance to proselytize?"

As for Jasser, who was the narrator of Clarion's "The Third Jihad", a "virulently Anti-Muslim" propaganda video" is nothing but an unabashed shill for Steve King (R-NY) and Mitch McConnel (R-KY). You have to be kidding me. This is who you are using to support your nonsense? This is the guy who stated ""We are not here to criticize the NYPD but rather thank them for monitoring extremists, a job that Muslims should be doing". According again to the "Terror Lessons of Muslim-Americans", Duke/Sanford:

"Muslim-Americans have adopted numerous internal self-policing practices to prevent the growth of radical ideology in their communities. The practices range from confronting individuals who express radical ideology or support for terrorism, preventing extremist ideologues from preaching in mosques, communicating concerns about radical individuals to law enforcement officials, and purging radical extremists from membership in local mosques. Muslim-Americans have also adopted programs for youth to help identify individuals who react inappropriately to controversial issues so they can be counseled and educated." (This research project found that Muslim-American communities strongly reject radical jihadi ideology, are eager to contribute to the national counterterrorism effort, and are fiercely committed to integration within the mainstream of American social and economic life. As explained in Part 2 of this report, Muslim-American communities are taking a variety of positive steps that help prevent radicalization within their communities:

1) they consistently denounce terrorism directed at the United States;

2) they engage in self-policing by prohibiting radical sermons in their mosques and taking action against radical views expressed by outsiders or community members;

3) they are building strong institutions within their communities to direct their youth in a positive direction;

4) they are addressing their grievances through political mobilization; and

5)they are emphasizing their identity as Muslim- Americans. In addition, Muslim-Americans have developed strong working relationships with federal and local law enforcement agencies.

Nonetheless, there is an uneasy tension in the relationship between Muslim-Americans and other Americans that causes concern. Whether it is from public opinion polls, media coverage, commentary by angry voices on the Internet and talk radio, or portrayals of Muslims in popular culture, Muslim-Americans sense an element of hostility towards both Islam and Muslims emanating from at least a portion of American society. (THIS IS REFERRING TO THE TYPE OF THINGS YOU POST) Also, while Muslim-Americans accept the need for enhanced security measures, they also perceive many government counterterrorism, security, and immigration policies to be unfair and discriminatory in their application to Muslims-Americans. Finally, they have many disagreements with American foreign policy. These disagreements have been present for many decades, but due to 9/11 and subsequent events over the past eight years in the United States, the Middle East, and South Asia, these issues have become more relevant and the schisms more intense.

The presence of these tensions does not, in our view, imply widespread radicalization among Muslim- Americans or the potential for widespread radicalization in the future. However, isolated instances of radicalization may continue to occur in the corners of society because small groups or individuals who are vulnerable to radicalization or who are socially isolated may misinterpret and magnify the discontent and unease among mainstream Muslim-Americans.

Our recommendations, therefore, have two goals: building on the successes of Muslim-American communities that are associated with low levels of radicalization in the United States and creating a more positive environment for Muslim-Americans so their anti-radicalization measures will continue to be effective.
 

Carola May (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 7:16 am
So when's the last time the Tea Party produced a suicide bomber or blew up a building in forcing their agenda on us all? They use the ballot box. Here's what the Muslim Brotherhood's secret agenda for you and the rest of the US and West is from a document captured in a raid on this convicted terrorist group by the FBI (let's see you poo-poo this):

"The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan (brotherhood) must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack."(http://www.investigativeproject.org/document/id/20)

These people are out to destroy our civilisation. They've been trying to destroy and conquer us for 1400 years, and succeeded to invade parts of Europe and enslave the people for hundreds of hears before finally being driven back out. Do you think they're kidding? They have their tentacles in government, business, the media, education at all levels.
 

monica r. (41)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 7:56 am
I don't really care WHICH religion is having a big prayer rally at a political convention. It is inappropriate. I don't want to see a big dominionist tent meeting at the RNC and I don't want to see this jumah BS at the DNC.

Separation of church and state makes this indefensible no matter how much you want to love and accept a particular religion. NO religion should be represented at the DNC in this way (or any way). And I think if it WAS some other religion those here defending it would be screaming bloody murder.

Say I go to a convention that overlaps my "church day," well, I either skip part of the convention if I can even find a church of my denomination nearby, or I skip going to church that one time (we can't make it up due to the nature of it). What I don't do is want or expect a prayer gathering for my denomination at said convention.

Missed prayers in islam CAN be made up later, like when you go up to your hotel room later that day.

This should be of concern, because since no other faith seems to be getting the same accommodation (with promo posters and all) it gives the impression of one religion singled out for promotion/proselytizing opportunity by a political party.

NO. Not okay.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 7:57 am
Carola:

Before you spout off, maybe you should do a little research.


According to the Center of Excellence of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security based at the University of Maryland, "Hot Spots of Terrorism
and Other Crimes in the United States, 1970 to 2008", "Incidents of religiously motivated terrorist attacks were much less prevalent than all other ideologically motivated terrorist attacks."

From Daryl Johnson, former Senior Domestic Terrorism Analyst at the Department of Homeland Security, Office of Intelligence & Analysis (I&A) from August 2004 to April 2010, "Since the DHS warning concerning the resurgence of right-wing extremism, 27 law enforcement officers have been shot (16 killed) by right-wing extremists. Over a dozen mosques have been burned with firebombs – likely attributed to individuals embracing Islamaphobic beliefs. In May 2009, an abortion doctor was murdered while attending church, two other assassination plots against abortion providers were thwarted during 2011 and a half-dozen women’s health clinics were attacked with explosive and incendiary devices over the past two years."

"In January 2010, a tax resister deliberately crashed his small plane filled with a 50-gallon drum of gasoline into an IRS processing center in Austin, Texas; in January 2011, three incendiary bombs were mailed to government officials in Annapolis, Md., and Washington, D.C.; also, in January 2011, a backpack bomb was placed along a Martin Luther King Day parade route in Spokane, Wash.; and, during 2010-2012, there have been multiple plots to kill ethnic minorities, police and other government officials by militia extremists and white supremacists."

"The Sikh temple shooting in Oak Creek, Wis., and the shooting of four sheriff’s deputies in St. Johns Parish, La., in August are only the latest manifestations of right-wing extremist violence in the U.S. Yet, there have been no hearings on Capitol Hill about this issue. DHS still has only one analyst monitoring domestic terrorism. The federal government’s failure to recognize the domestic terrorism threat tells me there will assuredly be more attacks to come."

Considering the Tea-Partiers, such as organizations like the WND were the ones who stifled the original concerns regarding Tea-Party or "liberty-lovers" and the threats of domestic terrorism, I think this is pretty clear. Do you think that the guy who crashed the plane into the IRS processing centre in Austin was a democrat?

Also, is it really that difficult to stay on topic. Where does the Muslim Brotherhood have to do with 20,000 American Muslims attending the DNC? Two different issues and maybe if you spent a little time reading something that actually was credible you would understand what the topic is.
 

Bernard Cronyn (31)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 8:26 am
Gee whizz am I impressed with the endless mine of brilliant information put out by someone christened by his verbally challenged mama (?) as "Lies My Country Told Me"! I will never need to scour the internet again for various opinions facts and points of view; it’s all right there in just one website. I see 11 posts in a heartbeat and nice looooong ones too! Do we call you "Lies" for short or "LMCTM" or just "Me" or a derivation of "Country"?

Just as a matter of interest the word “Islamaphobia” is one of those recently invented words that makes little sense unless you speak fluent gibberish. It emanated from that eminent bunch of linguistic experts in Iran employed by their democratic government to heap praises on the state of Iran and its leaders the Ayatollah and old JimmyJammyPyjamas. It first appeared in response to criticism by human rights group over the Iranian practice of stringing up gay people and knocking the crap out of their women folk with or without the throwing of many stones amongst other little foibles. Thus when you use “Islamaphobia” the burning question is, “are you just plain stupid or are you a fully signed up member of the Iranian State Propaganda team?”
 

bob m. (32)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 8:46 am

In the end.. islam will be ..under the heal of the Lamb of God..
1 John 2: 22,23... for it comes forth out of antichrist.
22/.Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. (2 John 7)..(1 John 4:3).
23/. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the father also....
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 9:00 am


Okay, again. Let's look at all of the evidence as documented above prepared by the FBI, Homeland Security, counter terrorism experts, etc. and then the evidence provided here by bloggers and opinion based NOT ON FACT, but just the reading from known hate sites such as RedState, JihadWatch, AtlasShrugged, etc. and decide who should actually keep us as a populous safe from domestic terrorism.

Any thinking, sane person would probably go with those trained in these disciplines. Not that bagging crowd though. Instead, let's take the opinion of known Islamophobic, bigoted, racist bloggers and call it good.

These 20,000 people who are attending the DNC are AMERICAN CITIZENS. There is no evidence at all that Muslim Americans are attempting to subvert the United States of America. In fact, many of the "terrorist" attacks (40%) from what is deemed to be a domestic Islamic radicalized plot is American born converts, not people coming from the Middle East.

Don't you realize that this type of virulent rhetoric against people who are American Muslim possibly breeds terrorism. Don't you think that demonizing them, vilifying them and crapping on them at every possible turn might bred resentment.

“No one knows exactly why some people become radicalized and others do not. But charismatic leaders such as American-born Islamic cleric Anwar Awlaki — the most effective Al Qaeda recruiter of Americans — are a consistent theme. The uncomfortable reality is that jihadis use the fear and anger generated by a range of controversial current events to promote their virulent ideological concepts. One issue that Awlaki, based in Yemen, exploits is the specter of a government crackdown on Muslim Americans.” [Brian Fishman, “Talking terrorism”, LA Times, Feb. 22, 2011]

Former FBI Director, Robert Mueller, "I re-affirm the fact that 99.9 percent of Muslim-Americans … are every bit as patriotic as anybody else in this room, and that many of our cases are a result of the cooperation from the Muslim community in the United States” and “"has been tremendously supportive and worked very closely with [the FBI] in a number of instances around the country."

Quintan Wiktorowicz, Senior Director for Global Engagement at the White House National Security Council, stated "One of the important things about counterradicalization is that about perhaps 10 percent of it is law enforcement and intelligence, 90 percent of it are things that have relatively little to do with that. Counterradicalization also has to include things like politicians visiting Muslim communities, messaging and beefing up education about Islam among Muslims themselves.”

“Muslim-Americans organizations and the vast majority of individuals that we interviewed firmly reject the radical extremist ideology that justifies the use of violence to achieve political ends, [David Schanzer, director of the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security.]

Another of the report’s authors said, “Muslim-American communities have been active in preventing radicalization.”

To demonize groups like CAIR within the United States and depict them as radical, extremist groups is not only erroneous, but further marginalizes the American Muslim community. By giving them second class citizen, vilifying them and the Islamic religion without any delineation between Muslim as practiced by almost a billion people and radicalization of a religion (which is certainly done with every religion, Catholics, Christians – check out the Religious Right, Judaism – the Haredim, etc.) splinters cohesion they feel towards their country, America. You want to make terrorists, keep up the rhetoric and see what happens.

Monica - I agree completely with you regarding the separation between State and Church. My point is that the above claims regarding 20,000 RADICALIZED Muslims are descending upon the DNC is horse crap. Data provided by Homeland Security and the FBI actually contradicts these claims. Just because they are attending doesn't mean that they are influencing the country to adopt Sharia law. The whole Tea Party is based upon the Christian religious right and they certainly will be in attendance at the RNC en masse.

You should be happy. Again, according to the data provided above, Muslims who belong to their community and are observant are much less likely to perpetuate an act of terrorism than a is a loner, a fringe actor looking in from the outside.

Your claim "Because there's just NO signs or signals, in any way shape or form, that Islamists linked to, say, the Muslim Brotherhood for example, have any influence in our government at all. No, nothing to see here folks…." is also completely unfounded.

Since when is the Muslim Brotherhood classified as a terrorist organization? Further, below a reference to Al-Qaeda, demonstrates that there is very little success in radicalized Islam gaining a foothold within the American Muslim demographic

“Talking about jihad, boasting of what one will do, and offering diabolical schemes egging each other on is usually as far as it goes.” This “may provide psychological satisfaction” and “win accolades from other pretend warriors, but it is primarily an outlet for verbal expression, not an anteroom to violence.” [Robert Mueller, TERRORISM SINCE 9/11, The American Cases, pg. 16, June 2012)


For supporters of the Tea Party to actually have the nerve to castigate another religious practice is unbelievable. Their whole agenda is based on a FAITH BASED POLITICAL PARTY which has hijacked the GOP. With that, comes complete undermining of the Constitution as it seems that only sections which they like (the 2nd Amendment) is what the adopt and throw out all of the other stuff, like for instance the 1st Amendment.

So, we can continue down this road or we can work together to be a peaceful nation, respecting others, upholding our Constitutional rights and civil liberties. Misinformation, distortion and outright lies rather than educating oneself of things that are unfamiliar to us is not the solution. It is the problem.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 9:06 am
Bernard - a) Rob/Jay brought in the Duke/Sanford Report. Opinions - the FBI, Homeland Security, Counter-Terrorist agencies, statistics. These are opinions. Really. It is pathetic that you actually will promote things that come from hate sites like JihadWatch, but refer to the data provided by the FBI and Homeland Security as an "opinion" An academic you certainly are not.

We aren't taling about Iran here Bernard. Perhaps you should stay on topic. We are talking about blatant racism because American Muslims are attending the DNC. What Convention should they attend, the Republican?

Get a grip. Why don't you refute what I say with facts rather than bash me. Find something that is credible to prove me wrong, I will have no problem admitting I am wrong. I just happen to believe a little more in facts, evidence, data collected than bigoted racist websites.
 

monica r. (41)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 9:06 am
Lies,

how about some stats on church fires? Church arson is far more common than most people realize. And what about attacks on synagogues or other Jewish organizations. In fact, those are also rampant.

It doesn't matter who is the biggest victim. Hough is connected to NAIT which means Saudi influence and they do fund terror. Wahhaj was named a co-conspirator in the 1993 WTC bombing. Neither should be speaking at this event.

I'm sure most muslims would never do anything like blow something up.

That said, quite a few of those same non-violent people still believe women are chattel, do bad things to their daughters (FGM, forced marriage), etc, and why?

The prophet said women are:
"a tilth (field to plow)"
"the majority of the inhabitants of hell"
"like domestic animals"
"deficient in intellect"
"deficient in religion"

Islamic jurisprudence dictates:
women can inherit half what men do
a woman's legal testimony is worth half a man's
proving rape requires 4 muslim male witnesses in good standing
there is a set waiting period before divorced "women" who haven't hit puberty yet can re-marry

Just because it's not the only misogynistic faith group out there doesn't excuse it. That is a logical fallacy, but you're quite fond of using it (based on your musings here). "Tu quoque" I think it's called.

Surely you're not suggesting all the women in prison for being raped world-wide are a right-wing-Tea-Party plot? Read some international news if you think that. No, they are jailed for it because rape wasn't proved, and that means it was adultery. And that is because they are judged according to islamic jurisprudence.

In fact an Aussie woman has sued her consulate because after being drugged and raped by co-workers in the UAE, she asked the consulate for help. They never told her not to report the rape to police. She did, and spent 8 months in jail for adultery. Probably Sarah Palin's fault somehow?

Of course other denominations are anti-women too. The difference is the prophet treated them badly (married a 6 year old, hit his wives, had slaves, multiple wives, etc).

Jesus, to his credit, never had slaves, didn't hit women, and respected them and included them in his ministry. He spoke to a Samaritan woman, which for a rabbi of the time was nothing short of scandalous, and she was sent forth to preach to others. When Mary and Martha were compared, he said that sitting by him learning (like the men were doing) was better than cleaning the kitchen. Therefore so-called "christians" who are misogynistic are DISOBEYING their leader's teachings. When muslims are misogynistic they are OBEYING their prophet (and perfect example of a man for all to emulate).

That is a profound distinction.
 

monica r. (41)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 9:14 am
Also, Lies,

"Let's look at all of the evidence as documented above prepared by the FBI"

Would that be the same FBI that has scrubbed all references to extremist islam/jihad from all its documents? The same FBI that felt Nidal Hassan's emailing with Al-Awlaki about things like killing people (leading up to him shooting over 40 victims, killing 13, while screaming "allahu akhbar!!!") were of no consequence ?

Does it occur to you that as a federal entity, thus part of the government, the FBI might just be your country lying to you right now?

Just sayin'.........
 

Bernard Cronyn (31)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 9:21 am
Lies etc etc I mentioned Iran in reference to the gibberish word repeated by yourself and others of Islamaphobia/ Islamaphobic in comments. Let me repeat, when you use “Islamaphobia” the burning question is, are you just plain stupid or are you a fully signed up member of the Iranian State Propaganda team?
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 10:46 am
On Saturday, August 25, 2012 at 2:00 pm EST (1:00 Central, 12:00 Mountain, 11:00 Pacific and 3:00 Atlantic) we will be welcoming Trevor Aaronson of author of upcoming, book "The Terror Factory: Inside the FBI’s Manufactured War on Terrorism "(January 2013). He is also co-director of the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and a senior fellow at the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism at Brandeis. Trevor also authored "The Informants" which was featured on Mother Jones' magazine.

A two-time finalist for the Livingston Awards for journalists under the age of 35, Aaronson has won more than two dozen national and regional awards, including the Molly Prize, the international Data Journalism Award and the John Jay College/Harry Frank Guggenheim Excellence in Criminal Justice Reporting Award.

"The Lengths One Will Go To For A Little Head" will be a discussing about recent Lubbock County Judge Tom Head and his recent statements regarding the need for a tax rate increase in order to be prepared for Obama's reelection and the encroachment of the UN forces in response to the upcoming civil war. We couldn't even make up stuff like this!

Please join us on August 25, 2012 at 2:00 pm EST on BTR's Lies My Country Told Me. Either join us in the chatroom or call in either for your questions for Trevor or just general commentary at (347) 677-1814.
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 10:49 am
I can only scratch my head in wonder.....what the hell is wrong with you people that makes you so full of hate and paranoia. It won't be Muslims that will be the down fall of American, it will be people full of hate and paranoia that bring it's down fall.
 

bob m. (32)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 11:50 am


Thanks Beth.. an informed public has a chance.
 

Ge M. (218)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 12:17 pm
John W, your comment is actually racist as well as showing disabilism and anti-gay prejudices as you picked out a very few crimes against Muslims and ignored every single other one including Hispanics, Jews, other minorities including disabled, gays and those with mental health issues.

The FBI annual publication, Hate Crime Statistics 2010, documented 6,628 hate crimes in 2010, which was a slight increase from the 6,604 hate crimes in 2009. Crimes directed against individuals due to race, religion, sexual orientation, and national origin increased slightly, with a significant increase in the number of anti-Islamic crimes. The report also documented 1,322 religion-based crimes in 2010, with 887 of them – about 67 percent – targeting Jews and Jewish institutions.

Lies, you would be interesting if you knew what you were writing about.

FBI, CIA, POLICE AND THE PURSUIT OF TERRORISTS IN THE U.S.
http://factsanddetails.com/world.php?itemid=2380&catid=58&subcatid=384

Carrie, I have a life and it does not include wearing a burka or being forced out of my country. I am watching areas in the UK become no go areas for the police unless they go in mob handed. I am watching Muslims force their views/Sharia law onto non-Muslims. and, I am watching them refuse to accept that they live in the UK, they want to exclude British people from their own lands. A few years ago our Home Office minister, Douglas Hurd, did a tour of the East End of London. The Muslim leaders told him that he could not enter their land. They were told that this is the UK and he (Douglas Hurd) had every right to walk down a public street. Now, if these extremists want Sharia law, why are they here?

I would also remind all of you that 9/11 and 7/7 were terrorist acts carried out by Muslims. Not all Muslims are terrorists (although many know and keep quiet which is as bad) but almost all attacks on the Weat are by Muslims. Recent figures released show that some 60% of all terrorist attackes were perpetrated by SUNNI MUSLIMS which would include other Muslims. That leaves 40% of terrorist attacks by other forms of Islam against other Muslims and non-Muslims as well as the few other terrorist groups.

Note that this probably does not include the attempted genocide of Sudanese Muslims against Sudanese Christians in the recent war, nor will include the Muslim attack on N Mali, the burning of churches, the murders and abuses by Muslim controlled Middle East countries , Indonesian or African, Eastern Europe......

 

Ge M. (218)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 12:26 pm
Abdesalam, you condemn people that object to things like paedophilia. You call us Islamophobes (a Muslim Brotherhood word) because you cannot counter the appalling behaviour of many Muslims, the human rights abuses, the appalling treatment of women, throwing acid, rape, honour killings, murder, paedophilia with both little girls and little boys (the first explained in the Hadith, the second extolled in the Koran). Or is it just that you don't like us telling it as it really is?

Your country has just gone through a revolution and all I hear is, not bringing all of the people regardless of religion together but, let's bring the marriage age of a girl down to 9 years. Let's have a slave marriage on TV. let's ignore the abuses. murders against Coptic Christians, the original residents of this country, as well as the fact that many are fleeing scared for their lives. Now the president's son is calling for mass control or else!

What a civilised country - not!

 

Ge M. (218)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 12:27 pm
Sorry, should make it clear that the Sunni Muslims attack other Muslims and that leave 40% of other terrorists including other forms of Islam.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 12:28 pm
Bernard - "Gibberish word" is when you mentioned Iran. Again, what does this have to do with Iran. It has to do with the fear or phobia of Islam. If you think calling people names makes you sound smarter, by all means go ahead. It doesn't, but if it makes you feel better…

Some facts to support your argument though might go a lot further than "Lies etc etc I mentioned Iran in reference to the gibberish word repeated by yourself and others of Islamaphobia/ Islamaphobic in comments. Let me repeat, when you use „Islamaphobia‰ [sic] the burning question is, are you just plain stupid or are you a fully signed up member of the Iranian State Propaganda team?".

Well Bernard, for you, I will reduce myself to using Wiki. I think that anything beyond that might be a little challenging for you. This reference at least does cite other source material, so I gather it can pass the veracity test.

"One early use cited as the term's first use is by the painter Alphonse Étienne Dinet and Algerian intellectual Sliman ben Ibrahim in their 1918 biography of Islam's prophet Muhammad.[Dinet, Alphonse Étienne; ben Ibrahim, Sliman (1918). La Vie de Mohammed, Prophète d’Allah. Paris.]

Writing in French, they used the term islamophobie. Robin Richardson writes that in the English version of the book the word was not translated as "islamophobia", but rather as "feelings inimical to Islam". Dahou Ezzerhouni has cited several other uses in French as early as 1910, and from 1912 to 1918.[Ezzerhouni, Dahou. "L'islamophobie, un racisme apparu avec les colonisations", Algerie-Focus, February 3, 2010. ]

These early uses of the term did not, according to Christopher Allen, have the same meaning as in contemporary usage, as they described a fear of Islam by liberal Muslims and Muslim feminists, rather than a fear or dislike/hatred of Muslims by non-Muslims.[Allen, Christopher (2010). Islamophobia. Ashgate Publishing. pp. 5–6.][Chris Allen (2007). "Islamophobia and its Consequences". European Islam (Centre for European Policy Studies): 144 to 167.]

Richardson states that the first English print usage was Edward Said's 1985 article "Orientalism Reconsidered".[Richardson, Robin (December 2009). "Islamophobia or anti-muslim racism – or what?"PDF (119 KB), Insted website. Accessed December 30, 2011.]

Another early documented use of the word was by the American news magazine Insight on the News in 1991, used to describe Russian activities in Afghanistan,[Encyclopedia of Race and Ethics, p. 215] and this is the usage listed by the Oxford English Dictionary.[Allen, Christopher (2010). Islamophobia. Ashgate Publishing. pp. 5–6.]

The term entered into common usage with the publication of the Runnymede Trust's report in 1997.[ Otterbeck, Jonas; Bevelander, Pieter (2006) (in Swedish). Islamofobi - en studie av begreppet, ungdomars attityder och unga muslimars utsatthet. Anders Lange. Stockholm: Forum för levande historia. ISBN 91-976073-6-3. Retrieved 23 November 2011]

Kofi Annan asserted at a 2004 conference entitled "Confronting Islamophobia" that the word Islamophobia had to be coined in order to "take account of increasingly widespread bigotry". [Annan, Kofi. "Secretary-General, addressing headquarters seminar Wed Confronting Islamophobia", United Nations, press release, December 7, 2004. " [Islamophobia: A Challenge for Us All"PDF (69.7 KB), Runnymede Trust, 1997.]

I wonder though if maybe your post should be applied to yourself. Again, considering the term Islamophobia was not in reference to Iran, nor your claim "linguistic experts in Iran employed by their democratic government to heap praises on the state of Iran and its leaders the Ayatollah and old JimmyJammyPyjamas."

I think your submission of the origin of the word, as stated above came from yahoo. No citations or source material either. Hmmm… tough choice. I think I'll go with mine.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 12:34 pm
Actually Monica, I don't necessarily buy all of the FBI's analysis especially when they fail and want to deny their culpability, but their statistics certainly are accurate.

In addition, it is not the denial of the email that was criticized it was the inaction the FBI demonstrated.

"The FBI has been criticized for not acting on emails showing Hasan’s communications with Al Awlaki. The agency’s San Diego bureau had forwarded the Al Awlaki/Hasan email communications to the FBI’s Washington field office asking that the bureau officially talk to Hasan’s superior officers. The Washington office declined because of concern that it would reveal that it had access to Al Awlaki’s email and such a conversation could harm Hasan’s career.

"The report said although it believed the Washington Field Office “took an unreasonably long time to read and respond to San Diego's lead,” there were no policy guidelines on the assignment and resolution of routine leads. It said absent such formal processes, the delay wasn’t misconduct. It said it didn’t recommend administrative or disciplinary actions against any FBI personnel in the case. " (Government Security News, http://www.gsnmagazine.com/node/26821)

You also can look up the Webster report on the FBI website.

With this said though, the radicalization of American Muslims whether by outside groups or as the loner model of the FBI is still significantly lower than what is depicted by posters such as Rob/Jay, Carola and Bernard. In fact, there is no substantiation to actually suggest that a recruitment effort is being made by outside groups. This comes from the Duke/Sandford report(s), PEW research and is borne out by statistical data provided by the FBI. Thus, one can certainly dismiss FBI analysis, but the data itself is undisputed and if one takes the time to read through the data itself, you can certainly see exactly what has been found by credible, valid counter terrorism research facilities.
 

Lydia S. (71)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 1:52 pm
Lies my Country told me wrote: "We believe most domestic attacks are carried out by lone offenders to promote their own grievances and agendas. They usually possess only a rudimentary knowledge of Islam, and usually quite gullible. "

What we need to worry about are the imams, ayatollahs, mullahs, sheiks, etc., who possess more than a "rudimentary knowledge of Islam" and preach at mosques and islamic centers, inciting their followers to violence.

ALL OVER THE WORLD "lone offenders" are perpetrating horrific acts of violence --- One attack anywhere, is one TOO MANY! The Political Ideology of islam is founded on violence, promotes violence and is NOT compatible with civilization. PERIOD!

It is opposed to freedom of speech, tolerance, women's rights, civil liberties, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, LGBT rights, animal rights, children's rights, etc. Wherever you have a muslim majority country -- you have the WORST Human Rights abuses~!
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 1:56 pm
Monica - where have we delved into the world of antisemitism? "And what about attacks on synagogues or other Jewish organizations. In fact, those are also rampant. "

First of all, you cannot blame all acts of antisemitism on people who are Muslim. In fact, there are a plenty of white Americans who actually participate in Antisemitism. My understanding was that we were talking about the erroneous information posted here on the radicalization of Muslim Americans and the 20,000 radicals that were taking over the DNC.

I stated that there is domestic terrorism which involves all kinds of groups and no evidence has been provided supporting this encroaching radical islamization of American Muslims leading to terrorism. Statistically, it does not bear out. There is not a Islamic terrorist behind every bush and continuing down that path serves no purpose other than to breed resentment. In addition, all data has born out that American Muslims are in fact pretty resistant to Islamic radicalization. A significant percentage of people who actually do become radicalized are people who have converted to Islam. In other words, they are disaffected Americans raised in a religious setting other than Islam in many cases.

You want to talk about hate crimes. Fine.

From FBI stats, 2010 (most recent release)

By race

In 2010, the races of the 6,008 known hate CRIME OFFENDERS were as follows:

58.6 percent were white.
18.4 percent were black.
8.9 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (multiple races, group).
1.1 percent were Asian/Pacific Islander.
1.0 percent were American Indian/Alaskan Native.
12.0 percent were of unknown race.

I want you to note that 58.6% of offenders are WHITE. If we are looking at the encroaching Middle East Arab or Persian Muslim, I guess the WHITE percentage of the population wins out on this one.

In the Uniform Crime Reporting Program, the victim of a hate crime may be an individual, a business, an institution, or society as a whole. In 2010, the Nation’s law enforcement agencies reported that there were 8,208 victims of hate crimes. Of these victims, 9 were victimized in 4 separate multiple-bias incidents.

By bias motivation
An analysis of data for victims of single-bias hate crime incidents showed that:

48.2 percent were victims of an offender’s bias against a race.
18.9 percent were victims of an offender’s bias against a religion.
18.6 percent were victims of an offender’s bias against a particular sexual orientation.
13.7 percent were victims of an offender’s bias against an ethnicity/national origin.
0.6 percent were victims of an offender’s bias against a disability.
(Based on Table 1.)

Racial bias
Among the single-bias hate crime incidents in 2010, there were 3,949 victims of racially motivated hate crime. A closer examination of these victim data showed that:

70.0 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
17.7 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.
5.1 percent were victims of an anti-Asian/Pacific Islander bias.
1.2 percent were victims of an anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native bias.
6.0 percent were victims of a bias against a group of individuals in which more than one race was represented (anti-multiple races, group).
(Based on Table 1.)

Religious bias
Of the 1,552 victims of an anti-religion hate crime:

67.0 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
12.7 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
4.2 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
3.0 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
0.5 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
9.1 percent were victims of a bias against other religions (anti-other religion).
3.5 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
(Based on Table 1.)

Sexual-orientation bias
Of the 1,528 victims targeted due to an offender’s sexual-orientation bias:

57.3 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-male homosexual bias.
27.5 percent were victims of an anti-homosexual bias.
11.8 percent were victims of an anti-female homosexual bias.
1.4 percent were victims of an anti-heterosexual bias.
1.9 percent were victims of an anti-bisexual bias.
(Based on Table 1.)

Ethnicity/national origin bias
Hate crimes motivated by the offender’s bias toward a particular ethnicity/national origin were directed at 1,122 victims. Of these victims:

66.6 percent were targeted because of an anti-Hispanic bias.
33.4 percent were victimized because of a bias against other ethnicities/national origins.
(Based on Table 1.)

Disability bias
Of the 48 victims of a hate crime due to the offender’s bias against a disability:

24 were victims of an anti-mental disability bias.
24 were victims of an anti-physical disability bias.
(See Table 1.)

By crime category
Of the 8,208 victims of a hate crime, 58.8 percent were victims of crimes against persons, and 41.1 percent were victims of crimes against property. The remaining percentage were victims of crimes against society. (Based on Table 2.)

By offense type
Crimes against persons
In 2010, 4,824 victims of hate crimes were victims of crimes against persons.

Of these victims:

7 persons were murdered, and 4 were forcibly raped. (Jewish 0, Black 0, Islamic 0)
46.2 percent of the victims were intimidated. (Jewish 201, Black 933, Islamic 69)
34.8 percent were victims of simple assault. (Jewish 65, Black 486, Islamic 46)
18.4 percent were victims of aggravated assault. (Jewish 12, Black 315, Islamic 17 )
*Less than one percent (0.3) were victims of other types of offenses, which are collected only in the National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS).


No one is stating that antisemitism doesn't exist, but certainly we seem to have a pretty big problem with anti-black sentiment in the United States. I added the anti-black stats in just to give some balance.

Crimes against property
In 2010, 3,370 victims of hate crimes were victims of crimes against property. Of these:

81.5 percent were victims of destruction/damage/vandalism. (
5.8 percent were victims of larceny-theft.
4.8 percent were victims of burglary.
5.0 percent were victims of robbery.
1.3 percent were victims of arson.
0.5 percent were victims of motor vehicle theft.
1.1 percent were victims of other types of hate crime offenses, which are collected only in the NIBRS.
(Based on Table 2.)


You claim "Church arson is far more common than most people realize. And what about attacks on synagogues or other Jewish organizations. In fact, those are also rampant. " In 2010, there were 43 crimes against property in total which were deemed to be a hate crime. Of this, 2 cases of arson were anti-Jewish in nature. In fact of those 43, the lion's share of arson were anti-black (11) and anti-other religion (12). This means that 4.6% of all acts of arson defined as a hate crime were anti-Jewish and we do not know if those two cases involved a synagogue. Actually I was surprised and would have expected more than 2 cases of arson involving anti-Jewish sentiment.

"Wahhaj was named a co-conspirator in the 1993 WTC bombing."

You want to give me something besides blogs for this as evidence? If this is the case, then I certainly agree. The problem is though that the only reference to Wahhaj being considered an unindicted co-conspirator comes from sites like, www.jihadwatch.org/, atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/, www.militantislammonitor.org. You get my drift here. There is nothing suggesting anywhere that this is credible nor is it supported anywhere but these blogs. If it comes from the websites I just mentioned, I am going to have to say, I need a little more in the way of facts. I do know though that he led prayer in the House of Representatives in 1991.

So if you would rather participate in this type of inflammatory rhetoric that has nothing to support it other than bloggers, religious right organizations, by all means go right ahead. You seem usually above the fray of the Tea-bagging rhetoric, but it seems that you too are drinking the Kool-Aid. Some type of supporting, credible, cross checked data (not discredited bloggers, or self described terrorism experts like Robert Spencer) would be appreciated. There is no sense in attempting to discuss this when your world is made of cotton candy and lollipops.
 

Sandra K. (8)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 1:58 pm
It's absolutely mind boggling how many people will defend Islam & Islamists, yet have never lived in an Islamic country, have never read the Quran or the Hadith, have done zero research into the origins of Islam. Incredible, ignorant fools, every single one of you.

As for the pathetic term 'Islamophobia'.....I can see how truly ignorant people are from their sheeple-like behavior which causes them to sling this fabricated word/concept around. Bloody fools.
 

Jennifer Ward (40)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:28 pm
That religion- any religion- should dominate the West again is a very scary prospect. As the true face of Islam becomes apparent the prospect is horrifying.
 

Mitchell D. (130)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:28 pm

"Red State, Powerful Conservative Voices," is the source of this information, or, may I say most probably MIS-information!
If you folks buy into this you will give Karl Rove a huge erection.
What horse crap!!
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:43 pm
@ Lies you tell your country

This is a more appropriate name for you.

"when is something said by anti-Obama, Isalmophobic/hate websites considered credible in their claims of which individuals are terrorists. According to them, anyone who opposes their viewpoint (which is never substantiated with anything other than crap like Frank Gaffney and like minded nuts)."

First of all, the 'hate sites' you refer to are merely revealing the truth about islam and their viewpoint IS substantiated by islamic teachings and also every time a muslim engages in jihad.. which happens somewhere on the planet probably every day. But of course, you'll ignore this because it is inconvenient to your argument. You'll also ignore the muslim clerics who use mosques, the TV and the internet (real hate sites) to call out to muslims everywhere to wage war against the west.

What do you have to say about the state of some cities in Europe because of muslims? What do you have to say about how muslims there conduct themselves? Answer please.

You mentioned the paedophilia in past times in our history, when it was acceptable to marry very young girls. No one is saying that this was ok. It was paedophilia then, and it is paedophilia now. The difference is that in the west, paedophilia is now a crime. In islamic countries, it is not. It is simply following the example of the paedophile prophet.

You called those who speak out against islam, islamophobes, then had a go a Bernard for 'calling people names'. If you think it's childish of him, then it's also childish of you. What about the people who were born into muslim families, grew up with it every day and learned it inside out, then left islam because they saw how it really is and now warn the west about it? Are they islamophobes too? You are being presented with facts about islam, the muslim brotherhood and the intentions of muslims to enforce their barbarism on everyone everywhere, but you just ignore those facts because facts are, as I already said, inconvenient to you.

You can argue all the statistics you like, but in the end, what counts is what muslims believe, and what we see going on around the globe every day. Rape, intolerance, murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, paedophilia... the list goes on and on, yet still you refuse to see what is happening. I see no criticism of islam at all, only of everyone else. Will you condemn the ideas that women are of less value than men? That homosexuals should be executed? That those who leave islam for another religion or no religion are to be executed? Will you condemn the killing of women who have been raped? Will you condemn the raping of virgins in prisons in order that they can then be killed, or as some believe, in order to prevent them from entering heaven? Will you condemn the ethnic cleansing going on in the 'arab spring' countries?

And please, no more nonsense about the religious right in the US having similar views on women, homosexuals and non believers. That is no argument at all. All you are doing is admitting you are wrong, but refusing to actually say it. We are not saying that it's ok for certain religious groups to hold those views, but not for muslims. We are saying it is wrong, period. So, if you think it's wrong of the American religious right to hold these intolerant views, you must think it is wrong for muslims to hold those views too. Will you condemn them for that? Answer these questions, please.

You were also asked to provide proof that what we say about islam is not true. Please do so. Not from FBI reports or any other reports, but from the koran. Remember, this isn't a 'crusade' against muslims. We are opposed to islam because it is thoroughly vile and evil and because certain muslims are hell bent on forcing it on all of us. Let's also not forget that the largest group of victims of islam, are muslims. They often have to live under brutal, oppressive regimes, and with the constant threat of punishment for crimes against islam. There are also many terrorist attacks by muslims, on muslims, because of rivalry between different sects.

I'm for no religion. I think they're all crazy, but none more so than islam. It is thoroughly evil and demands total world domination and the slaughter, enslavement or conversion of everyone. It's all there. Of course, you will no doubt make the usual silly argument that I got this stuff from a 'hate site'. If so, in a way you would be right. I got it from an online koran, so it came from an islamic site, and it IS the koran. Hateful is the best way to describe both.

From the koran:

2.216: Fighting is enjoined on you, and is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

2.193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

4.91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

4.101 And when ye go forth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.

4.144 O ye who believe! Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you ?

8.55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

8:65 O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.

8:67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter.

8:69 Enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good: but fear Allah.

9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection

9.73: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

9.123 O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

 

Dave C. (224)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:46 pm
Is this supposed to be a problem?????

Must be sad for Red States and GOP supporters who must live your entire lives in fear...."boo".....

if you are going to link to a site can you least make the site news and not propoganda...i.e. this is care2 news.....and make the grammer better quality...the writer of this article couldn't get out of 7th grade.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:47 pm
"What we need to worry about are the imams, ayatollahs, mullahs, sheiks, etc., who possess more than a "rudimentary knowledge of Islam" and preach at mosques and islamic centers, inciting their followers to violence. "

Lydia, we are talking about domestic terrorism, nothing more, nothing less. Considering all evidence suggests that actually the mosques and religious bound community (as posted above) actually are the ones who are extremely helpful to law enforcement. What don't you understand this from above:

"Muslim-Americans have adopted numerous internal self-policing practices to prevent the growth of radical ideology in their communities. The practices range from confronting individuals who express radical ideology or support for terrorism, preventing extremist ideologues from preaching in mosques, communicating concerns about radical individuals to law enforcement officials, and purging radical extremists from membership in local mosques."

and

"2) they engage in self-policing by prohibiting radical sermons in their mosques and taking action against radical views expressed by outsiders or community members; "

Lydia et al., your "commentary by angry voices on the Internet and talk radio, or portrayals of Muslims in popular culture, Muslim-Americans sense an element of hostility towards both Islam and Muslims emanating from at least a portion of American society." (THIS IS REFERRING TO THE TYPE OF THINGS YOU POST) In other words, you are 'one of the "angry voices" on the Internet' which creates division and resentment.

Gillian:

Rather than actually use the FBI WEBSITE AND THEIR DATA, read some real reports, such as the Duke/Sanford Report and the PEW Research data, you instead send me to a secondary website in which the author admits " I am not professor or an expert on the subjects I write about but I have done a fair amount of reading about them" and "I don’t have footnotes and bibliographies but often I list the source under the first fact in each section" (sounds really academic to me, NOT).

He lists as his sources as "the Encyclopedia of World Cultures, The Rough Guide to World Music, Paul Theroux travel books, Daniel Boorstin history books, regional customs and manners books by Nancy Braganti and Elizabeth Devine, The World Almanac, The Guinness Book of World Records, and art and history books for regions such as the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Europe. " (doesn't quite specify which history books, for all I know it could be Karsh, yet that Theroux travel book and the Rough Guide to Music sounds like a real trough of information regarding terrorism).

With that said though, what is your point? What are you trying to claim from this website that you think "I don't know what I am talking about".

What don't you quite understand Gillian?

You stated "Lies, you would be interesting if you knew what you were writing about." and sent me to FBI, CIA, POLICE AND THE PURSUIT OF TERRORISTS IN THE U.S.
(http://factsanddetails.com/world.php?itemid=2380&catid=58&subcatid=384). Considering I just interviewed Trevor Aaronson, co-director of the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and a senior fellow at the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism at Brandeis University, specifically on this topic and you send me to a page which supports what I have been saying. Trevor did a year long project on what your blogger has posted which he won awards for, yet you turn to the blogger rather than the person who may actually have some real knowledge. I don't quite get it?

We do not have a Muslim terrorist behind every bush in the United States. Statistically it does not bear out. The stats that the FBI actually posts (which really don't show that there is much to worry about) includes cases in where the FBI actually entraps people who would never a) have the know how and b) wouldn't have even stepped into the realm of terrorism without the assistance of the FBI.

The informants (really bad guys with criminal records a mile long) who stand to earn a whole bunch of $$ and conveniently fail to record the initial conversations with the "terrorist" (sometimes this is months of non recording, and often when crucial moments occur) go mosque trawling to find some disaffected Muslim who is suffering economically and is from the fringes of society to talk them into an act of terror. In addition, these "terrorists" are told that they will be paid a lot of $$ (in one case $250,000 and another the promise of a barber shop). There is a case where one of the informants took these terrorists out to look at federal buildings in order to find one to target. They (the FBI) even purchased the "terrorist" the camera to take pictures of the target the informer suggested. So, the FBI comes up with the plot, provides the materials, sometimes threatens the "terrorist" to move forward with the plot and you want to claim that the American Muslim community is the hot bed of terrorism?

Maybe rather than using some travel guy, who actually isn't even disputing what I have stated, you should have listened to Trevor Aaaronson on Lies My Country Told Me, senior fellow at the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism at Brandeis University who would have first hand told you exactly what I have been posting.

“To aid them in their efforts, the FBI has deployed paid undercover informants throughout the nation's Muslim community, particularly in mosques. These informants often act as agents provocateur. At a mosque in California in 2007, for example, one such FBI informant, Craig Monteilh, who says he was paid $177,000 for his services, talked so vigorously about jihad that the mosque sought and received a restraining order against him. In another high-profile case known as the Newburgh Four — four African American Muslim converts convicted last year of attempting to bomb a synagogue and a Jewish community center and to shoot down military planes — an FBI informant promised the defendants, among other enticements, a BMW and $250,000 to carry out the attack. The details of the plot were choreographed in such detail that the presiding judge in the case chastised the government for its "decidedly troubling" tactics and concluded that the defendants would never have committed the attacks on their own. "The government made them terrorists," she said in delivering the minimum sentence for one of the defendants Sept. 7." [Source: Petra Bartosiewicz, Los Angeles Times, September 18, 2011]

DO YOU SEE THIS ABOVE. THE MOSQUE ITSELF TURNED IN THE FBI INFORMANT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS A TERRORIST. The FBI and the NYPD use the create a terrorist model and then use those statistics in their data. What I am saying though about their statistics is that whether or not they have created the terrorist, these are based on convictions that they actually won.

I want to make it clear that what has been discussed here is domestic terrorism. I am not talking about what goes on in Europe (statistically though the terrorist behind every bush theory doesn't hold either) or what you perceive to be the Islamic UK threat. This is about 20,000 American Muslims going to the DNC. They have the same rights every other American has to attend. In America, people don't have less rights because of their faith. It is protected under the 1st Amendment.
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 2:47 pm
@ Carola,

I wanted to give you a green star, probably a few actually, but I can't at the moment because I have alreday given you a green star this week. You deserve some here.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:05 pm
"t's absolutely mind boggling how many people will defend Islam & Islamists, yet have never lived in an Islamic country, have never read the Quran or the Hadith, have done zero research into the origins of Islam. Incredible, ignorant fools, every single one of you. "

We are talking about 20,000 Muslim Americans attending the DNC. We are not talking about the governance of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia or any other country. We are talking about AMERICA Sandra. Perhaps you need to concentrate before posting.
 

Bette M. (91)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:09 pm
Well, there is only one minority group
who will buy into the Islam faith lock
stock & barrel. And it isn't the NA, nor
the mexicans, or orientals.
So, what minority is it that will blindly
follow the terrorists Islamic faith?
Three guesses & the first two don't count.

Wherever you go there once was a forest.
Plant & protect Danny's trees for life.
Trees are the lungs of the earth.
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:11 pm
@ Abdessalam

More taqiyya from you, I see.

"...spitting their poison against Islam and Muslims for no reason but their sickness."

I guess you suffer from your own sickness... selective reading. We oppose islam for very good reasons, which have been spelled out many times. But you, as a muslim, ignore that and spout tripe about muslims being persecuted.

"...some verses of the Quran that was revealed on a specific occasion or during the torture and harassment early Muslims faced and were subject to by the non believers."

I see. So when mo and his followers were slaughtering their way around the middle east, they were spreading islam by the sword... in self defence? Is that it? Why didn't they stay where they were and preach peace? Why didn't islam spread through people discovering it was a loving, peaceful religion, rather than being forced to at the point of a sword?

"They are in most cases infected by a disease called "Islamophobia".

islamophobia is not a disease. It is not even a real word.

"Their daily and only job is to destroy the image of Islam"

Another foolish statement that cannot be substantiatied. You most DEFINITELY have the mind of a believer.

"This is what Islam instructs Muslims to do when they are subject to fight or insult from foolish and ignorant people."

Actually, you are instructed to "strike at their necks", with swords of course.

So abdel, how do you feel about homosexuals? Should they be executed like your religion demands?
Should apostates be executed?
Should atheists be executed?
Is it ok to marry and rape little girls?
Is it ok to take women as war booty and keep them as sex slaves?
Is it ok to beat your wives?
Is it ok to keep or sell captured women and children as slaves?
Should women accused of adultery be stoned to death?
Are women worth half the value of a man?
Do you believe it is correct that the evidence of a woman in court is inferior to that of a man, and that two women are required to equal a man's evidence?
Do you believe that all non muslims are the vilest of people?
Do you believe that you should fight until there is no religion but islam?

I expect more taqiyya

 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:14 pm
" We oppose islam for very good reasons, which have been spelled out many times. But you, as a muslim, ignore that and spout tripe about muslims being persecuted. "

No, you actually oppose Muslim because you are part of the sheeple and obviously have to rely on the ranting of nutbars like Geller, Spencer and Horowitz, rather than do a little research yourself.

“Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. education and free discussion are the antidotes of both.” - Thomas Jefferson
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:32 pm
@ Lies you tell your country

"We are talking about 20,000 Muslim Americans attending the DNC. We are not talking about the governance of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia or any other country. We are talking about AMERICA Sandra. Perhaps you need to concentrate before posting."

It is precisely BECAUSE we are talking about America, that Sandra and others are worried. Why do you suppose 20,000 muslims are going to a political event in the US? Because they want to embrace the American dream? No! It's because they want to destroy it.
 

John W. (5)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 3:48 pm
Gillian.

Douglas Hurd as Home Secretary "a few years ago". Well, if you count 23 years as "a few"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Hurd#In_government.2C_1979-90

"On 26 October 1989, Hurd moved to the Foreign Office, succeeding John Major"
 

Michael Kirkby (86)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 4:11 pm
Before you go off half cocked; terrorist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood; al Qaeda; Hezbollah and Hamas to name a few are the minority. I'm sure there are many Muslim Egyptians now ruing their choice in electing the MBs.
Most Muslims are law abiding citizens who want only a better life for themselves and a chance to raise a family in peace. They are no different than any other immigrant apart from religion and custom. They are not perfect either though and they need to make their voices heard when the extremists make it difficult for them. I for one don't want Sharia law here or anywhere anymore than I would want to return to the Old Testament law and the prophets. Theological states don't work. 20,000 at the DNC? It is then up to the Dems to vet all 20,000 of them and not assume that they are there to vote for them. It only takes a beligerent, violent few to incite to riot those who normally wouldn't.
 

cecily w. (0)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 4:50 pm
WHOA! No religious bloc should receive highlighted and "dedicated" status at any party's national convention--not Muslims, not Catholics, or Jews or Wiccans, and so forth. Of course the Christian Right has rather blatantly infiltrated the Republican National Convention.

That ANY religious groups have been able to infiltrate ANY national political conventions is just one more reason to get rid of the (insert party names) National Committees. These powerful national committees--and their local offshoots--buy politicians and choose who you can vote for. Right or left, the (insert party) National Committee turns the democratic process upside down.
 

Diane O. (164)
Saturday August 25, 2012, 5:12 pm
If there is a huge Muslim influence indicated at the Democratic Convention that could potentially be a negative for the democratic party.

Think about it.
 

Carol Dreeszen (362)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 12:44 am
According to the FBI some 80% of mosques preach sedition and look for volunteers to become home grown terrorists. If you want to live like that then there is a growing selection of countries to which you can travel to. You can admire the non-Muslims, especially Christian and Jews, being killed or forced out of their countries as well as moderate Muslims. We can start with the Middle East and move on to Africa and Indonesia......

Amen to this Gillian! There are SO MANY blind people in this country that refuse to see the truth and will blame the right for everything....they are hopeless!!! It seems lately there are more and more negatives that are influencing the Democratic party. If I was a Democrat I think I would be seriously worried about that!! To say the least embarrassed to death!!
 

Tommy S. (11)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 2:40 am
This month in islam-- so many misunderstanders
Date Country City Killed Injured Description
2012.08.24 Iraq Baghdad 6 12 At least six people are murdered when Islamic terrorists throw grenades into a hotel.
2012.08.24 Iraq Baghdad 3 8 Sunnis fire mortars into a group of Shiite worshippers, killing three.
2012.08.23 Afghanistan Spin Boldak 6 0 Three children and two women are among six civilian blown into bits by a Taliban bomb.
2012.08.23 Afghanistan Ahmad Khil 3 0 Hardliners kidnap and kill three local soldiers who were on their way home to visit families.
2012.08.21 Nigeria Goniri 2 0 Gunmen shouting 'Allah Akbar' burn down several buildings and shoot two villagers to death.
2012.08.21 Nigeria Borno 1 0 Islamists open fire on a rival cleric, killing him outside his mosque.
2012.08.20 Indonesia Cisalopa 4 0 Four people are murdered on accusation of heresy.
2012.08.19 Yemen Abyan 3 2 An al-Qaeda suicide bomber takes out three souls.
2012.08.19 Ingushetia Malgobek 7 10 A Fedayeen suicide bomber enters a funeral and slaughters at least seven mourners.
2012.08.19 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah 3 8 Islamic bombers kill three people at a cemetery.
2012.08.19 Pakistan Haripur 0 6 Six people are attacked by fundamentalists for watching television during Eid ul Fitr.
2012.08.18 Pakistan Michni 4 0 Four young men are brutally gunned down by radical Sunnis.
2012.08.18 Afghanistan Herat 4 12 Fundamentalist bombers murder four people at a crowded market.
2012.08.18 Yemen Aden 21 9 An al-Qaeda rocket attack and suicide bombing leaves over twenty people dead.
2012.08.18 Iraq Mosul 6 0 Muslim terrorists kill six family members in their homes.
2012.08.17 Pakistan Karachi 2 18 A bus carrying Shiite students is hit by a bombing that leaves at least two dead.
2012.08.16 Iraq Daquq 6 25 A Shahid suicide bomber snuffs out the life of six other souls.
2012.08.16 Pakistan Rawalpindi 25 0 Twenty-five Shiites are pulled off a passenger bus by Sunni extremists and shot and beheaded.
2012.08.16 Pakistan Quetta 3 0 Three members of the Hazara religious minority are exterminated by Sunni gunmen.
2012.08.16 Iraq Kirkuk 1 6 Terrorists bomb a family home, killing one member and injuring six.
2012.08.16 Pakistan Kamra 1 1 The Taliban kill at least one defender in an assault on an airport.
2012.08.16 Iraq Husseiniyah 7 42 Sunni car bombers take down seven Shiites.
2012.08.16 Iraq Baghdad 26 58 A Religion of Peace blast at a Shiite produce market leaves twenty-six dead.
2012.08.16 Iraq Zafaniya 34 57 Nearly three dozen people, mostly women and children, are slaughtered by a car bomb at an amusement park.
2012.08.16 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 Boko Haram shoot a community leader to death at a mosque.
2012.08.15 Afghanistan Heart 0 15 Taliban bombers leave fifteen shoppers at a market bloody and maimed.
2012.08.15 Thailand Yala 1 1 Muslim militants shoot a 47-year-old to death at a tea shop.
2012.08.15 Afghanistan Peshawar 6 0 Six Taliban victims are found tortured and stuffed into gunny bags.
2012.08.15 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 Sipah-e-Sahaba gunmen take down a Shiite.
2012.08.15 Iraq Qahataniya 2 0 Two brothers are murdered in their house by Sunnis for being members of a religious minority.
2012.08.15 Nigeria Kaduna 1 0 A Boko Haram bomb intended for a moderate imam goes off prematurely, killing a passerby.
2012.08.15 Iraq Baqubah 2 9 A Jihad car bomb leaves two dead.
2012.08.15 Iraq Muqdadiya 7 25 Ramadan car bombers send seven Shiite souls to Allah.
2012.08.15 Pakistan Kurram 3 31 Three security personnel bleed out following separate bombings by Muslim radicals.
2012.08.15 Afghanistan Bagh Sara 0 9 Three grenades into a rival mosque where people are praying.
2012.08.14 Afghanistan Kunduz 12 30 A bomb planted on a motorcycle at a crowded bazaar sends a dozen shoppers to Allah.
2012.08.14 Dagestan Buinaksk 1 0 Islamists blow up a car, along with an occupant.
2012.08.14 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 Muslim 'insurgents' shoot a local villager several times in the head and torso.
2012.08.14 Indonesia Sukabumi 1 0 A cleric is murdered by members of an Islamic sect.
2012.08.14 Afghanistan Zaranj 36 110 Four coordinated suicide bombers slaughter three dozen people, including women and children.
2012.08.14 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 52-year-old plantation worker is cut down by Muslim gunmen.
2012.08.14 Pakistan Sangar 1 2 An innocent person is murdered during an attack by Islamists.
2012.08.14 Dagestan Khasavyurt 2 1 Suspected Islamists shoot two police officers to death.
2012.08.14 Pakistan Orakzai 5 18 Five innocents are cut down by a Taliban ambush on a police patrol.
2012.08.14 Egypt Asyut 1 0 Salafis storm a Christian-owned store and murder the owner.
2012.08.14 Nigeria Damaturu 9 0 Nine people are slain by Boko Haram Islamists.
2012.08.13 Afghanistan Ishkamish 5 0 Islamic hardliners blow up five locals.
2012.08.13 Nigeria Gombe 1 1 A guard is killed during a Religion of Peace assault on a Catholic church.
2012.08.13 Pakistan Charsadda 2 0 A young couple is shot to death by the woman's family for marrying without their permission.
2012.08.13 Pakistan Saro Wano 1 1 A preacher is machine-gunned in his mosque by Religion of Peace rivals.
2012.08.13 Egypt Sinai 2 0 A man and his son are shot to death by Islamists shortly after denouncing them.
2012.08.12 Afghanistan Alishang 4 0 Four Afghans are dismantled by a Taliban roadside bomb.
2012.08.12 Iraq Jurf al-Sakhar 3 5 Mujahideen bombers take down three Iraqis.
2012.08.12 Iraq Baghdad 2 0 Two charity workers are assassinated by religious rivals.
2012.08.12 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Suspected Muslim terrorists murder a 55-year-old sleeping in his truck.
2012.08.12 Philippines Alip 2 4 Two people at a banana plantation are mowed down by Muslim militants.
2012.08.12 Pakistan Miranshah 3 3 Sunni terrorists kill three local soliders with a roadside bomb.
2012.08.12 Iraq Suleiman Bek 8 0 Eight more Shiite teens are rounded up and murdered by Sunni gunmen.
2012.08.12 Afghanistan Panjwai 4 4 Four people are cut down by a Taliban ambush.
2012.08.12 Pakistan Mera Kachuri 2 0 A father and son are brutally tortured to death by militant Muslims.
2012.08.12 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 A radio journilist is assassinated by suspected Islamists.
2012.08.11 Somalia Mogadishu 2 2 Two Somalis bleed to death from shrapnel injuries suffered during an al-Shabaab attack.
2012.08.11 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 41-year-old plantation worker is riddled with bullets by Muslim 'separatists'.
2012.08.11 Afghanistan Delaram 11 0 A Taliban in police uniform surprises eleven local cops and shoots them to death.
2012.08.11 Iraq Amerili 7 0 Sunnis ride into a town, single out seven young Shiites and execute them in cold blood.
2012.08.11 Pakistan Bara 4 1 Four local tribesmen are ambushed and killed by Lashkar-e-Islam militants.
2012.08.11 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 A guard at a mosque dies preventing a shooting rampage by rivals.
2012.08.11 Afghanistan Jambaran 1 1 Religious radicals assassinate a tribal chief in his home.
2012.08.11 Syria Jdeidet Artouz 1 0 A journalist is murdered following threats from al-Nusra.
2012.08.10 India Moominabad 1 0 The Islamic Movement of Kashmir murders a retiree outside a mosque.
2012.08.10 Yemen Mukalla 2 1 Two men are killed following an al-Qaeda car bomb blast.
2012.08.10 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 28-year-old man is shot off his motorbike by Muslim 'separatists.'
2012.08.10 Iraq Dujail 4 0 al-Qaeda gunmen take down four Sunnis.
2012.08.10 Iraq al-Muqdadiyah 3 2 Mujahideen bombers send three Iraqis to Allah.
2012.08.10 Iraq Mosul 5 70 A Shahid suicide bomber targets a Shiite mosque, slaughtering at least five worshippers.
2012.08.10 Afghanistan Musa Qala 6 1 Women and children are among six civilians torn to shreds by a Taliban bomb.
2012.08.10 Lebanon Akkar 1 9 Religious clashes leave one dead.
2012.08.10 Philippines Datu Unsay 1 0 A local cop is slain by Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters.
2012.08.10 Nigeria Kombul 4 3 Four Christians are cut down in their homes by a Muslim raid on their village.
2012.08.10 Iraq Haditha 3 0 Terrorists kill three members of the same family.
2012.08.10 Afghanistan Balkh 1 0 A female school principal is murdered in her own home by suspected fundamentalists.
2012.08.10 Syria al-Bab 3 0 Unarmed men are thrown from a roof to shouts of 'Allah Akbar'.
2012.08.10 Philippines Jolo 1 0 A Christian man is gunned down by Abu Sayyaf terrorists on his way home from church.
2012.08.09 Iraq Baghdad 2 19 Islamists bomb a marketplace, killing two patrons.
2012.08.09 Pakistan Upper Dir 2 0 Two border guards are murdered during a Taliban assault.
2012.08.09 India Baktoor 1 0 Islamic militants kill a border guard during an infiltration attempt.
2012.08.09 Afghanistan Helmand 3 0 Three American soldiers are invited to dinner by local police, and then murdered.
2012.08.09 Iraq Fallujah 4 4 Children are among the casualties when Islamic 'insurgents' blow up a family home.
2012.08.09 Dagestan Botlikh 5 0 Islamists open fire on a group of police, killing five.
2012.08.08 Afghanistan Asadabad 4 3 Four people are slain by a Fedayeen suicide bomber, including an aid official.
2012.08.08 Somalia Mogadishu 8 2 An al-Shabaab roadside bomb leaves eight dead.
2012.08.08 Dagestan Endireiaul 0 1 A former imam is shot after coming out against terror.
2012.08.08 Iraq Suwayra 13 30 Sunni car bombers massacre thirteen Shiite worshippers at a packed religious ceremony.
2012.08.08 Iraq Baghdad 1 1 The minister of Culture is assassinated in an attack that leaves his wife badly wounded.
2012.08.08 Iraq Baiji 8 0 Islamic State of Iraq members enter a home and exterminate a family of eight.
2012.08.08 Nigeria Okene 3 0 A woman is among three people gunned down by terrorists 'chanting Islamic praises'.
2012.08.08 Syria Hourani 1 3 One person is killed during a clash between Sunni and Shia.
2012.08.07 Afghanistan Paghman 9 3 Hardline Islamists blow up a civilian minibus, sending nine souls to Allah.
2012.08.07 Somalia Garowe 1 0 A local lawmaker is shot to death outside a mosque by al-Shabaab.
2012.08.07 Iraq Beaver Ridge Canaan 3 6 Three children are pulled into pieces by bombs planted in two homes.
2012.08.07 Pakistan Shah Khan 2 0 Two tribal elders are murdered by suspected Islamists.
2012.08.07 Thailand Pattani 0 9 Nine school guards are injured by a Muslim bomb.
2012.08.07 Syria Homs 16 0 Sunni militia attack a housing complex for religious minorities, killing sixteen.
2012.08.06 Chechnya Khankala 3 3 Three local soldiers are killed by a Fedayeen suicide blast.
2012.08.06 Iraq Khanaqin 2 2 Sunnis bomb a Kurdish family home, killing two.
2012.08.06 Pakistan Jamrud 1 0 Hardliners fire into a truck, killing the driver.
2012.08.06 Iraq al-Haswa 3 13 Jihadi car bombers take out three Iraqis.
2012.08.06 Afghanistan Charsadda 1 3 The Taliban tie a landmine to a donkey that fatally injures a local cop.
2012.08.06 Dagestan Tsuntinsky 2 1 Islamic snipers pick off two local cops.
2012.08.06 Philippines Shariff Aguak 2 1 Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters kidnap, torture and execute two local soldiers.
2012.08.06 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Four Muslims murder a 55-year-old man with a shotgun.
2012.08.06 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A non-Muslim motorcycle repairman is shot in the head by Islamic 'insurgents'.
2012.08.06 Iraq Baghdad 2 0 Two local officials are murdered by Mujahid gunmen.
2012.08.06 Syria Damascus 6 0 Sunni terrorists massacre an entire Shiite family in their home, including hanging the youngest child.
2012.08.06 Nigeria Okene 20 9 Sharia proponents enter a church and open up on members with machine-guns, slaughtering at least nineteen, including the pastor.
2012.08.06 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 A church pastor is shot to death in his home by two Islamists.
2012.08.06 India Sendabal 1 2 A youth dies when two groups clash at a mosque over a prayer disagreement.
2012.08.06 Iraq Hillah 4 0 Four Iraqis on a minibus are torn to shreds by 'insurgent' bombers.
2012.08.05 Iraq Mosul 3 0 Suspected al-Qaeda open up point-blank on three local cops.
2012.08.05 Philippines Maguindanao 1 11 At least one woman is killed when Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Movement members overrun a Catholic village.
2012.08.05 Iraq Tuz Khurmatu 4 2 Jihadi bombers send four Iraqis to Allah.
2012.08.05 Pakistan Milwat 1 0 Lashkar-e-Islam militants murder a peace committee volunteer.
2012.08.05 Syria Jdaidet Artuz 1 0 A Shiite film director is assassinated by Sunni terrorists.
2012.08.05 Afghanistan Bamiyan 6 12 Taliban ambush and kill four Afghans and two NATO troops coming to their defense.
2012.08.05 Pakistan Gilgit 2 4 Two passengers bleed out from splinter injuries after Islamic militants toss a grenade into a bus.
2012.08.05 Egypt Sinai 16 7 Gaza Jihadists cross the border and murder sixteen Egyptian border police.
2012.08.05 Nigeria Damaturu 7 9 Seven Nigerians are disassembled by a Shahid suicide car bomber.
2012.08.05 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 al-Shabaab gunmen assassinate an airport manager.
2012.08.05 Pakistan Faizabad 3 12 A Religion of Peace bomb kills two children and a woman.
2012.08.05 Pakistan Bahawalnagar 4 3 A woman and her daughters are hacked to death with an axe by her husband and sons on suspicion of 'relations with neighbors'.
2012.08.05 Nigeria Maiduguri 4 0 Four people are shot to death in their homes by Boko Haram Islamists.
2012.08.04 Afghanistan Gala Joy 8 10 Eight are killed when two groups of Islamists work out their differences.
2012.08.04 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 57-year-old cop is ambushed and killed by Muslim militants.
2012.08.04 Pakistan Gilgit 1 0 A 34-year-old Shiite farmer is tortured and beheaded by Wahhabi radicals.
2012.08.04 Afghanistan Ghormach 3 12 Taliban fundamentalists toss a bomb into a market, sending at least three souls to Allah.
2012.08.04 Yemen Jaar 49 37 An al-Qaeda suicide bomber blows forty-nine funeral-goers into pieces.
2012.08.03 Afghanistan Kunar 2 0 A woman is among two people killed in attack by Sunni hardliners.
2012.08.03 Afghanistan Daulatzai 0 23 Two dozen people are injured when Mujahideen set off a bomb at a rival mosque during prayers.
2012.08.03 Syria Damascus 1 0 al-Nusra terrorists kidnap and execute a television presenter.
2012.08.03 Saudi Arabia Qatif 2 1 A clash between Sunni and Shia leaves two dead.
2012.08.03 Pakistan Risalpur 11 23 Mujahideen plant a bomb on a child's tricycle at a market, which rips eleven people to shreds.
2012.08.03 Iraq Baghdad 5 11 Drive-by Jihadis take down five Iraqis.
2012.08.03 Syria Damascus 21 17 Militants with al-Qaeda ties are blamed for sending mortars into a refugee camp, killing at least twenty-one.
2012.08.03 Iraq Dhuluiyah 4 4 Four Iraqis are torn apart by an 'insurgent' roadside bomb.
2012.08.03 Pakistan Charsadda 0 2 Two workers are injured when Islamists throw a grenade into a humanitarian agency helping flood victims.
2012.08.03 Yemen Sanaa 1 0 Suspected al-Qaeda gunmen strafe a car with bullets, killing the driver.
2012.08.03 Kenya Nairobi 1 9 An Islamist throws a grenade into a supermarket, killing at least one.
2012.08.02 Iraq Balad 3 0 Three Iraqis are blown to bits by an 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.08.02 Jordan Baoun 1 0 A 22-year-old divorced woman is stabbed to death by her brother for not submitting to his control.
2012.08.02 Dagestan Kizilyurt 1 1 One police officer is dead and another loses a leg to Religion of Peace attacks.
2012.08.02 India Kasargod 1 0 A Hindu leader is shot to death by Muslim militants.
2012.08.02 Iraq Tikrit 4 0 Four policemen are machine-gunned at close range by Sunni terrorists.
2012.08.02 Iraq Baghdad 9 32 Women are among the casualties when Sunnis bomb a market in a Shiite neighborhood.
2012.08.02 Iraq Kirkuk 4 0 Muslim terrorists enter a home and cut the throats of a father, mother and two daughters.
2012.08.02 Pakistan Akhorwal 1 0 Tehreek-e-Taliban gunmen murder a local man.
2012.08.01 Yemen Abyan 5 0 Five people die during an al-Qaeda grenade and gunfire attack.
2012.08.01 Pakistan Mochiwala 1 1 A woman is shot to death by her brother on suspicion of illicit relations.
2012.08.01 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Muslim gunmen murder a local official on his way home from work.
2012.08.01 Pakistan Tandlianwala 2 0 A woman is strangled by her brother over 'loose morals'.
2012.08.01 Pakistan Lahore 0 23 Twenty-three casualties result from Islamists bombing a fruit market.
2012.08.01 Pakistan Hyderabad 1 0 A young woman is shot to death by her brother for marrying of her own free will.
2012.08.01 Pakistan Lagharai Thal 1 0 Religious radicals gun down a school teacher.
2012.08.01 Somalia Mogadishu 6 0 Six guards are taken apart by two Fedayeen suicide bombers.
2012.08.01 Pal. Auth. Tulkarm 1 0 A Palestinian man stabs his teenage daughter to death in a suspected honor killing.
2012.08.01 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 A comedian is shot to death after mocking Islamists on stage.
2012.08.01 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 At least one other person is killed when two suicide bombers detonate.
2012.08.01 Afghanistan Jalrez 4 0 Four civilians are kidnapped and murdered by the Taliban.
2012.07.31 Pakistan Karachi 0 11 Eleven nurses fall ill after hospital food is poisoned to punish Ramadan eaters.
2012.07.31 Iraq Baghdad 15 35 Jihadis bomb a passport office, killing fifteen innocent people waiting in line.
2012.07.31 Somalia Mogadishu 1 9 An Islamist bomb outside a soft drink factory leaves one dead.
2012.07.31 Syria Aleppo 40 0 Approximately forty 'loyalists' are beaten and executed to chants of 'Allah Akbar'.
2012.07.31 Yemen Jaar 2 3 Ansar al-Sharia gunmen on motorcycles open fire on a police station, killing two.
2012.07.31 Iraq Baghdad 7 21 A car bombing outside a restaurant leaves seven dead.
2012.07.31 Thailand Pattani 2 4 Islamic militants fire into a tea shop, killing two patrons.
2012.07.31 Iraq Mosul 1 3 A man is killed, and his baby, mother and wife injured in their own home by Muslim terrorists.
2012.07.31 Iraq Saqlawiyah 2 2 Two family members are killed by an 'insurgent' roadside bomb.
2012.07.30 Pakistan Mardan 4 0 Terrorists shoot four farm workers to death.
2012.07.30 Kenya Mandera 1 0 al-Shabaab gunmen spray the car of a mobile phone dealer with bullets, killing the driver.
2012.07.30 Afghanistan Tarinkot 5 0 Five civilians at a mosque are sent straight to Allah by Religion of Peace bombers.
2012.07.30 Nigeria Sokoto 1 0 Three Boko Haram gunmen shoot a shoe-shine worker to death.
2012.07.30 Nigeria Sokoto 2 30 Fedayeen suicide car bombers take down a hairdresser and a cop.
2012.07.29 Nigeria Kano 2 2 An air force officer is ambushed and killed by Muslim gunmen along with his aide.
2012.07.29 Pakistan Mansehra 0 2 Fundamentalists bomb a CD shop selling music and a primary school for girls.
2012.07.29 Nigeria Kano 2 0 Two Christians are gunned down outside their homes by Boko Haram Islamists.
2012.07.29 Yemen Radah 1 0 A 14-year-old boy is cut to pieces by an al-Qaeda bomb.
2012.07.29 Afghanistan Chak 1 1 A man is killed and his young so injured in an ambush by Sunni fundamentalists.
2012.07.29 Mali Aguelhok 2 0 A married couple is buried up to their necks and stoned to death for adultery.
2012.07.29 Iraq Fallujah 7 9 Seven local cops are bombed or shot to death by Ramadan terrorists.
2012.07.29 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 45-year-old man is shot three times in the head by Islamic terrorists.
2012.07.29 Kenya Mandera 1 0 Islamists gun down a driver for a telephone company.
2012.07.29 Iraq Muqdadiya 4 13 Jihadi bombers take down four civilians.
2012.07.28 India Anantnag 2 4 Two tourists are killed when Muslim militants toss a hand grenade at a taxi.
2012.07.28 Yemen Sanaa 1 0 al-Qaeda radicals hand a 12-year-old a packaged bomb, which is then detonated remotely, disassembling the child.
2012.07.28 Thailand Pattani 4 2 Four Thai soldiers are brutally shot to death at close range by Muslim terrorists.
2012.07.28 Thailand Yala 1 0 A Muslim 'separatist' assassinates a rival Muslim in a mosque.
2012.07.28 Iraq Samarrah 5 0 Mujahideen shoot five women to death in their own home.
2012.07.28 Thailand Pattani 2 0 A teenager is among two Buddhists murdered by Muslim 'separatists.'
2012.07.27 Somalia Baidoa 4 3 Four local soldiers are killed by an al-Shabaab bomb blast.
2012.07.27 Dagestan Makhachkala 1 0 A police officer is shot to death in his car by Islamic militants.
2012.07.27 Pakistan Quetta 1 0 Wahhabi terrorists torture a Shiite man with knives and then kill him.
2012.07.27 Pakistan Mardan 6 0 Jihadists shoot six people to death in separate attacks.
2012.07.27 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 66-year-old man is gunned down in a Muslim ambush.
2012.07.27 Thailand Pattani 1 1 Militant Muslims fire on a young married couple, killing the 18-year-old woman.
2012.07.27 Dagestan Makhachkala 3 0 Three people are killed when Islamic extremists set off a car bomb.
2012.07.27 Nigeria Maiduguri 7 0 Suspected Boko Haram barge into four homes and murder seven residents.
2012.07.26 Philippines Sumisip 5 22 Abu Sayyaf terrorists attack a Christian farming village, killing at least five.
2012.07.26 Iraq Hadid 11 0 Eleven security personnel are killed in an al-Qaeda ambush.
2012.07.26 Philippines Sumisip 10 17 An Abu Sayyaf clash with local troops responding to a prior massacre leaves ten dead.
2012.07.26 Pakistan Khar 15 23 Religion of Peace militants detonate a shrapnel bomb at a crowded market which kills fifteen people, including those dying later in the hospital.
2012.07.26 Thailand Yala 1 0 Muslim militants shoot a local several times in the torso.
2012.07.26 Nigeria Bauchi 3 1 Suspected Islamists ambush a group of policemen, killing three.
2012.07.26 Pakistan Akka Khel 3 4 Three people outside a mosque are blown to bits by Religion of Peace rivals.
2012.07.26 Thailand Yala 2 0 Two villagers are machine-gunned by Islamic 'insurgents'.
2012.07.26 Egypt Shubra el Khayma 0 1 A Christian doctor is brutally blinded by Salafist Muslims after asking them to stop firing weapons in celebration.

 

Gerry Moran (17)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 2:45 am
@ Lies you tell your country

"No, you actually oppose Muslim because you are part of the sheeple and obviously have to rely on the ranting of nutbars like Geller, Spencer and Horowitz, rather than do a little research yourself. "

And you know this do you? You know me that well? For your INFORMATION... you know... ACTUAL information, not the tripe you are throwing about here, I have read nothing of Spencer, I have no idea who Geller is, and I know of Horowitz. So I guess from that, YOU would deduce that they have massive influence on my thinking.

I used to be like you. I had been convinced that islam was a religion of peace and that muslims were being persecuted. I saw the truth myself. I'd never heard of any of those people when that happened, and it happened because I started to realise just how much violence was being dished out by muslims wherever they were to be found. Then I read a book by an ex-muslim which started me off looking for the truth. The first place I looked was..... the Koran! NOT these 'hate sites' you refer to, because I didn't know there were any websites dedicated to educating the public about this vile, evil death cult and how it’s followers are trying to force it's barbaric ways on the population of this planet. That includes you. If these people get their way, aided of course by fools like you, you, your family and your friends will all be victims too and you will have to live with the fact that you were partly responsible. The koran is where I started finding out how wrong I'd been about islam. You should take a step back from your little bubble and open your eyes.

"You know Rob/Jay;

I am not going to argue the Quran with you."

No you can't, because you'd lose and because you probably know nothing about it. You haven't posted one item yet which tells us that islam is a force for good, and you clearly have no idea about the religion itself. What you are posting is bullshit.

"As the title of Pew Research's 2007 study suggests, Muslim Americans are "middle class and mostly mainstream." Compared with their co-religionists in other Western societies, they are relatively well integrated into mainstream society. Unlike Western Europe's Muslim populations, Muslims in the U.S. are generally as well-educated and financially well-off as the general population."

You posted that. How do you think it started off in Europe? The muslim population in the US is much smaller by percentage than the population in Europe. There is a trend which you have chosen not to see. When the population is small, they behave well. As the population grows, that situation changes. We now have islamic groups DEMANDING that WE adopt and adhere to sharia law, and the UN and many western governments are appeasing these retards by jailing anyone who dares to criticise islam. Even simply telling the truth about islam, quoting from it’s own writings, is classed as hate speech and will land you in jail. And you want to call us fools for being concerned about this? How foolish YOU are! In the US, you are well down the line of this happening anyway, because your president is working with the MB to ensure it

There are gangs of muslims roaming around attacking people for doing things which THEY deem unacceptable, and ensuring that sharia is adhered to by EVERYONE. There are no go areas in many European cities, and this has been the case for some time now. Our governments are doing nothing about this for fear of offending muslims and inciting violence. There is NO other group that gets this treatment. We are all VERY well aware of what happens when muslims get offended. Buildings get burned and people get killed. What other group reacts like this? Yet you still defend them and claim that it’s everyone else who is a problem. I see no gangs of jews, xtians, sikhs, hinduhs, buddhists or any other group acting like this. We know we can criticise ANY other religion or idea, and we don’t expect a violent reaction. But with islam, we KNOW that is EXACTLY what we’ll get! All this is more for you to ignore in your little bubble of imagination.

muslims being well off and educated means nothing. Many muslim terrorists are well educated and come from well off families. So there is no reason to feel good about this and every reason to still be worried.

And how about this tripe?

"The FBI has built a massive network of spies to prevent another domestic attack. But are they busting terrorist plots or leading them?"

You claim that the FBI is actively trying to encourage certain muslims to engage in acts of terrorism, then you quote FBI statistics which declare that there is no threat from islam. This is a very mixed up theory. You want to use the FBI as an excuse for islamic terrorism, claiming that are trying their best to make muslims look like terrorists by bribing them to take part, yet at the same time, you use quotes and statistics from the same organisation to show that the risk from muslims is low. Very mixed up.

Now you accuse me of being a bigot, and you also do this by quoting someone else rather than actually giving a genuine, plausible reason. You, like your comrades, use false accusations and make sweeping assumptions about people like me... then have the gall to accuse us of bigotry!!

I asked you some questions which you have so far not even attempted to answer. I’ll ask again. Please. No more silly quotes. Just answer the questions this time.

What do you have to say about the state of some cities in Europe because of muslims? What do you have to say about how muslims there conduct themselves?

What about the people who were born into muslim families, grew up with it every day and learned it inside out, then left islam because they saw how it really is and now warn the west about it? Are they islamophobes too?

Will you condemn the islamic ideas that women are of less value than men? That homosexuals should be executed? That those who leave islam for another religion or no religion are to be executed? Will you condemn the killing of women who have been raped? Will you condemn the raping of virgins in prisons in order that they can then be killed, or as some believe, in order to prevent them from entering heaven? Will you condemn the ethnic cleansing going on in the 'arab spring' countries?

If you think it's wrong of the American religious right to hold intolerant views towards women, homosexuals and non-believers, you must think it is wrong for muslims to hold those views too. Will you condemn them for that?

You were also asked to provide proof that what we say about islam is not true. Please do so.

I listed a few quotes from the Koran, but silence from you. You prefer to listen to bigots spout off a load of tripe and claim that none of us have done any research. We have, and that is why we are concerned. We have also opened our minds and our eyes and can see the danger as clear as day. You might want to look to Africa and Europe to see what is to come in the US and what you are defending, instead of believing in stupid conspiracy theories and taking a VERY naive and VERY one sided approach.

 

Gerry Moran (17)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 3:02 am
Wow Tommy. That's quite a list. And, as you say, quite a lot of misunderstanders.

I wonder why no other religion suffers from this same misunderstanding problem. Only islam. Could it be that there is NO misunderstanding? I guess Lies will see that as ANOTHER conspiracy theory.
 

Tommy S. (11)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 3:15 am
@ Abdessalem Diab
quote..1 - Only six verses implicitly teach us to practice tolerance even with Atheists, and tell us to treat non-Muslims with respect but yet disapproval..... Unquote
You have your religion I have mine
From sura 109-- the declaration of innocence from "shirk"--or assigning partners to any belief that is considered to be in opposition to Allah and Islam -In response to the invitation from the Quraysh to muhammed worship their god for a year then they would worship allah for a year---HOWEVER THIS VERSE WAS ABROGATED BY SURA 9;5

2 - “Say Truth is from your Lord; let him who will believe, and let him who will disbelieve “(Alkahf: 29)--- sura 18:29 NQ And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, We have prepared for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh). And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc.) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces. Terrible the drink, and an evil Murtafaqâ (dwelling, resting place, etc.)!
-----Hardly an expression of tolerance

3 - “If your Lord had so wished, everyone on earth would have believed, All of them together “(Yuns (Jonah): 99)
sura 10:99 NQ And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. SO WILL YOU (O MUHAMMED SAW) THEN COMPEL MANKIND UNTIL THEY BECOME BELIEVERS

4 - “You do not guide someone you love, but God guides those whom he wishes, and HE is quite aware as to who are guided “(Alkasas: 56) sura 28:56 AA You cannot guide any one you like: God guides whosoever He please. He knows best who will come to guidance.--- was revealed regarding the Prophet’s longing for his uncle AbūTālib to embrace faith: closely followed by sura 28:59 And your Lord never destroyed the towns, because of evildoing on their part, until He had raised up in their mother-town, that is, the major [town] among them, a messenger to recite Our signs to them. AND WE NEVER DESTROYED THE TOWNS UNLESS THEIR INHABITANTS WERE COMMITTING EVIL BY DENYING THE MESSENGERS

5 -sura 29:46 "Don't argue with the people of the book unless it is in the politest manner. Except for those of them who do wrong, say we believe in what has been sent down to us and what has been sent down to you. Our god and your god is (the same) ONE and we are committed to observe peace before him “.
An attempt to coerce belief by stating the nonsense that we have the same god which no doubt some of the more gullible would believe
The tafsir is interesting (shades of convert pay the jizya or die)
tafsir on sura 29:46 [29:46] And do not dispute with the People of the Scripture unless it be with that — in that manner of disputation, bettering the most virtuous way, such as calling [them] to God by [reference to] His signs and pointing out His arguments; except [in the case of] those of them who have done wrong, by waging war and refusing to accept [to pay] the jizya-tax: dispute with these using the sword, until such time as they submit or pay the jizya-tax; and say, to those who have accepted [the imposition upon them of] the jizya-tax, should they inform you of something stated in their Scriptures: ‘We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you — and neither believe nor disbelieve them in that [which they tell you] — OUR GOD AND YOUR GOD IS ONE (AND THE SAME) and to Him we submit’, [to Him] we are obedient.

6 - "Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in a ways that are best and most gracious; for thy Lord knows the best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance." (An-Nahl 16:125)
tafsir --- Call, mankind, O Muhammad (s), to the way of your Lord, [to] His religion, with wisdom, [with] the Qur’ān, and fair exhortation, its [the Qur’ān’s] fair exhortations, or with gentle words, and dispute with them by way of that which, that is, by way of that [manner of] disputation which, is best, such as calling [them] to God by way of His signs and calling [them] to His definitive arguments. Truly your Lord knows best, that is, He is fully knowledgeable [of], those who stray from His way and He knows best those who are guided, and will requite them —THIS WAS REVEALED BEFORE THE COMMAND TO FIGHT (THEM) THIS ABROGATION BY SURA 9;5






 

Gerry Moran (17)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 3:18 am
@ Cynthia D Occupy (334)

"I can only scratch my head in wonder....."

Yes, Cynthia. Scratch your head whilst you still have one to scratch.

"...what the hell is wrong with you people that makes you so full of hate and paranoia."

What the hell is wrong with you that you can't read what people say and digest it. Do some reading. Check out the koran and pay attention to what is going on around the globe. You might just get the message.

"It won't be Muslims that will be the down fall of American, it will be people full of hate and paranoia that bring it's down fall."

Muslims, and the "people full of hate and paranoia", are one and the same.
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 3:34 am
@ Tommy

Awesome post Tommy. This is how taqiya is put in it's place. But we shouldn't imagine that 'lies' will see 'The Lies Muslims Tell Him'. He is too blinded by silly conspiracy theories to actually cope with grasping reality. Sad really.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 3:42 am


Carol D.- How about you give something to support your claim of an 80% sedition rate occurring in Mosques. I see that Gillian hasn't provided anything to support the same claim she made.

This claim is absolutely untrue and irresponsible. The people who actually state this are all the usual sources which have no credibility. Let's see who that could be... Frank Gaffney, now persona non grata at more and more Conservative (really, really right wing extremist) meetings due to his "warning of a "concerted Muslim Brotherhood infiltration effort". Gaffney, who was once considered somewhat respectable, somewhere between 2000 and snapped and essentially lost his mind. Those belonging to the really right faction of the conservative movement, except for Michele Bachmann (no surprise there) and Allan West (about as credible as a three dollar bill) have distanced themselves from him. Of course the other big proponent of the 80% sedition rate is redstate.com itself, host of this very article which is full of crap. I want to note that these characters are not only anti-Muslim, but anti-gay too.

"The limited evidence available that does speak to American Muslims’ support for terrorism suggests little basis for concern. An in-depth study of Muslim communities in the United States funded by the Department of Justice and led by the sociologist Charles Kurzman and his colleagues found that there is little support for militancy in these communities.[4] This conclusion is echoed in public opinion surveys undertaken by the Pew Research Center."

"Muslim communities engage in substantial self-policing, seeking to deter the turn to militancy by members of their communities, and if that fails, they commonly report suspected militants to authorities.[Schanzer, Kurzman, and Moosa, “Anti-Terror Lessons of Muslim-Americans.”]

"There is no evidence that the NYPD’s infiltration of mosques uncovered any terrorist plots that did not originate with the police themselves. Moreover, as with racial profiling, religious profiling alienates those profiled -- in this case, American Muslims. This is a step backward for counterterrorism efforts, as the cooperation of Muslim communities has been crucial to foiling some 35 percent of recent terrorist plots." [Elizabeth Goitein and Faiza Patel, Brennan Center for Justice, April 17, 2012]

What the FBI does is to Mosque trawl" which sets up criminals as informants, sets them loose into mosques and pays them a whole bunch of money to find some terrorists. All studies, including the Duke/Sanford study, PEW Research, Senior fellow at the Schuster Center, Brandeis University Trevor Aaronson, the Brennan Center for Justice, all come to the same conclusion. Mosques are not the hotbed of Islamic radicalizations and the FBI's statistics are bolstered by these tactics, which include entrapment and utilization of the "creation of a terrorist" approach.

"That was true even in the Liberty City Seven case, an FBI sting that went through two mistrials before the government convinced a jury that five of seven defendants from Miami’s downtrodden Liberty City were guilty of plotting to blow up the Sears Tower in Chicago.

FBI officials admitted that the plot was more “aspirational than operational.” The entrapment defense also failed to deter a jury from convicting a group of four ex-convicts and drug offenders in Newburgh, N.Y., of plotting to blow up two synagogues and shoot down military transports with Stinger missiles. In that case, the FBI informant promised the defendants $250,000 and a BMW car, heady incentives for a group so ill-prepared to carry out the plot that none even had a driver’s license or car." [James Kitfield, American Jihad, January 28, 2011]

I want to note, the Liberty CIty Seven Case actually involved the Informant taking the "terrorist" out target shopping and purchased the camera needed to photograph the target. They also supplied what was needed to carry out a terrorist account, while they constantly asked the Informant when they would be getting paid.

This is extremely disturbing and actually damages any real, credible effort to actually catch real terrorists. Entrapping mentally disturbed, economically challenged, "fringe of society" type individuals who have no means nor the ability to carry out any type of act of terrorist by themselves, but through mosque trawling by known criminals who are being paid a significant sum of money for catching terrorists, not only breeds resentment (which shuts down the much needed cooperation by the American Muslim community to self police), but also directly contradicts the principles the United States was founded upon and adheres to. The founding fathers left Europe specifically to escape religious persecution.

You, who always seem to be using the Constitution to support your Tea-Party ideology, perhaps need to learn what the Constitution is about. In fact, the tactics the FBI employs to catch terrorists, can and already is being used to rout out "liberty lovers" (read-proponents of the Tea-Party). I don't think that I would be going out on a limb stating that using these tactics, the FBI will again bolster their "terrorist" stats beyond all belief (and be relatively cheaper than having to pay people to come up with a terrorist agenda as it seems these "liberty lovers" have already demonstrated that they are willing to act in an anti-American manner without financial incentive - see Lubbock County, Judge Tom Head; waiting for the UN forces and Obama's "minions" to roll through West Texas)

"Hot Spots of Terrorism and Other Crimes in the United States, 1970 to 2008"; a study financed by the Department of Homeland Security Report, deems Americans “suspicious of centralized federal authority, reverent of individual liberty”. The "profile" they are looking for is below:

1. Americans who believe their “way of life” is under attack;

2. Americans who are “fiercely nationalistic (as opposed to universal and international in orientation)”;

3. People who consider themselves “anti-global” (presumably those who are wary of the loss of American sovereignty);

4. Americans who are “suspicious of centralized federal authority”;

5. Americans who are “reverent of individual liberty”;

6. People who “believe in conspiracy theories that involve grave threat to national sovereignty and/or personal liberty.”

7. The report also lists people opposed to abortion and “groups that seek to smite the purported enemies of God and other evildoers” as terrorists

Hmmm…. Does the above criteria sound like anyone we know?????

According to the Global Terrorism Database (GTD) Manager Erin Miller, "Between 1970 and 2010, 32 percent of the perpetrator groups were motivated by ethnonationalist/separatist agendas, 28 percent were motivated by single issues, such as animal rights and opposition to war, and six percent were motivated by religion. In addition, 11 percent of the perpetrator groups were classified as extreme right-wing, and 23 percent were categorized as extreme left-wing." [Erin Miller, Hot Spots of Terrorism and Other Crimes in the United States, 1970 to 2008, July 5, 2012]

"Incidents of religiously motivated terrorist attacks were much less prevalent than all other ideologically motivated terrorist attacks." [Erin Miller, Hot Spots of Terrorism and Other Crimes in the United States, 1970 to 2008, July 5, 2012]

In this report, remember this is the DHS report, in the 1970s, extreme left-wing acts of terrorism dominated, although terror acts by all other groups (except faith based motivation) took place. After the initial acts of the 1970s, a few took place in the 80s and nothing after that.

In the 1970s, there was significant terrorism fueled by right wing ideology, as well as in the 1990s. There were no right-wing terrorist acts or plots in the 1980s nor between 2001 - 2008.

"First, terrorist attacks in the 1970s were most closely associated with extreme left-wing and ethno-national/separatist ideologies. In fact, the 1970s was the only decade where we see a positive relationship between left-wing extremism and frequency of terrorist attacks. While ethno-national/separatist ideology was still a significant motivator of terrorist attacks in the 1980s (though less so), it loses its positive association for the remainder of the time period (1990s and 2000s). During the 1980s we see the emergence of religious and single issue ideologies as important motivational sources of terrorism. By the 1990s, religious extremism is no longer significantly associated with terrorist attacks; instead, terrorist attacks during this decade are associated with extreme right-wing and single issue ideologies." [Erin Miller, Hot Spots of Terrorism and Other Crimes in the United States, 1970 to 2008, July 5, 2012]

" In support of contemporary research examining the effects of population heterogeneity on ordinary crime, the findings presented here demonstrate that the percentage of a population that is foreign-born in a county does not significantly influence the likelihood of terrorist attacks." [Erin Miller, Hot Spots of Terrorism and Other Crimes in the United States, 1970 to 2008, July 5, 2012]

Do you happen to see that? Only 6% motivated by religion, yet 32% ethnonationalistic/separatist agendas, 11% extreme right wing and 23% extreme left wing. Yet according to you, the radicalization of Islam is the big terrorist threat placing an Islamic radical extremist terrorist behind every bush.

How about the FBI use the same tactics to infiltrate evangelical, fundamentalistic faith based houses of worship? I gather you would be pretty offended, rightfully so, scream bloody murder and claim your Constitutional rights were being violated. So why then, do you seem to be completely onboard with the same tactics being applied to other American citizens?

Peter Bergen, a counterterrorism expert at the New America Foundation in Washington stated, “The worst mistake you could make is to create a new ‘Red Scare’ that scapegoats the American Muslim community. The FBI risks that kind of a backlash with some of these stings that involve unreliable informants dangling hundreds of thousands of dollars and new cars before a bunch of hotheads and losers. Picking too much of that kind of low-hanging fruit can alienate an American Muslim community that has been the source of intelligence tips on some really dangerous individuals.” [Peter Bergen, National Journal, May 2, 2011]

So please, when you cite this bs, please provide something credible rather than regurgitating something you find on a less than credible blog site. It not only continues to make American the laughing stock of the world, but also damages real efforts used to keep us all safe. Perhaps, you should investigate relocating to Lubbock County, TX. Your ideology and manner in which you "investigate" these issues seems to fit right in.
 

Tommy S. (11)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 3:48 am
Question-- Why is it that muslims as one writer put it -never acknowledge the truth, and never tell it.

 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 4:00 am
Carol - Really??? You are "AMEN"ing Gillian for posting a link to a blog which completely supports everything that I have posted? You really never cease to amaze me. I don't know why I expect different results from someone doing the same thing, time after time. It is the definition of insanity.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 5:29 am


Okay Mabolsa - Considering what you have posted is derived from where the Kool-Aid is being served, it doesn't take much to figure that one out.

" For your INFORMATION... you know... ACTUAL information, not the tripe you are throwing about here"

Okay, let's see about this one. Department of Homeland Security, Counter Terrorist Agencies, academics whose discipline is the study of the counter terrorism, statistics provided by FBI (maybe bolstered, but still speaks volumes how overblown the rhetoric regarding Islamic radicalization is), Sanford Duke (Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security), Brandeis University, University of California Berkley, and PEW against what you claim to be "ACTUAL INFORMATION" which consists of nothing, because you haven't provided one citation to anything. It seems that you take offense to my characterization of Geller, Spencer and Horowitz which is housewife/self-described ME expert, ex-librarian/self-described ME expert and racist/self-described ME expert and AIPAC shill.

"And you know this do you?"

Well, it is not a mysterious process like yours where you, Carol D., etc. seem to pull "facts" (I use that term quite loosely) out of thin air. It is called looking at and analyzing the data, reading reports, cross checking the veracity of these claims before one actually cites them (see reading the actual article or report one is citing is a good thing. It avoids embarrassment which does occur when one cites a report as Rob/Jay did or Gillian did and subsequently posts "EXCELLENT" and "you would be interesting if you knew what you were writing about" respectively and is proven that these claims actually SUPPORTS MY ARGUMENT) which is also known as research.

I have provided credible data which demonstrates that there is no huge threat of American Muslim terrorism waiting to pounce on unsuspecting citizens. I have also posted analysis from also credible sources which states that Muslim Americans are pretty resistant to Islamic radicalization. In fact, both the FBI and Homeland Security, both of which I may question their actual methods (it is in their best interest to actually show that they are catching terrorists) [Pew Research Center, “Muslim Americans: Middle Class and Mostly Mainstream” (Washington, D.C.: Pew Research Center, May 22, 2007); Pew Research Center. “Muslim Americans: No Signs of Growth in Alienation or Support for Extremism.” (pdf) Washington, D.C.: August 30, 2011.]

I doubt that you were ever "like me". You have to actually do some work and digest what your read, question what you are being presented with, verify the information in order to have an informed opinion. It does not consist of reading trash of off websites and call them the essential truth. In addition, I am not promoting Islam. I actually promote no religion whatsoever. Everyone is entitled to their own thing, it is actually Constitutionally guaranteed. What I have a problem with is outright lies, distortion of fact and sheer academic laziness the American people actually demonstrate. It offends me where we have people in the world who would do anything to actually receive an education, but here in the good old US of entitlement, land of opportunity and possibility, a good deal of the population is willing to promote violation of Constitutional rights and civil liberties based on religion and race.

I am not going to get into a Quranic pissing contest with any of you. You have all demonstrated that distorted, selective and manipulated translations of the Quran are all you know or are willing to post. How about some statistical data instead? How about what the experts (not bloggers, not those disaffected with their lives and have nothing better to do than jump on the crazy train), credible people who actually know what they are talking about?

In addition, even if (which is isn't, but for argument's sake) the Quran was filled with calls for armed jihad against every non Islamic person on the entire earth, where is the evidence that this has created an America as a hotbot of Islamic radicalization? Yes, I will get to Tommy's claim after I am done with yours.

I don't care if Islam is for good or not. What I am stating is that a) there is no evidence that there is a concerted effort of taking over America by American Muslim citizens and b) the statistics do not bear out the "terrorist behind every bush" narrative and by concentrating solely on this makes America susceptible to real acts of terror by many other groups who have demonstrated that they are willing to act violently.

Since you claim that the PEW research is bs, please provide me with something to refute what I, PEW, Duke/Sanford (Rob/Jay's contribution), Homeland Security, etc. claim. Something more than your "expertise" in terrorism is required.

" There is a trend which you have chosen not to see. When the population is small, they behave well. As the population grows, that situation changes. We now have islamic groups DEMANDING that WE adopt and adhere to sharia law, and the UN and many western governments are appeasing these retards by jailing anyone who dares to criticise islam. "

Provide something to support this, no blogs either. How offensive to call anyone a "retard".

"There are gangs of muslims roaming around attacking people for doing things which THEY deem unacceptable, and ensuring that sharia is adhered to by EVERYONE. There are no go areas in many European cities, and this has been the case for some time now. "

We are talking about America here, but if you are going to make claims like this, I would think that you need to provide something to support this.

"There is NO other group that gets this treatment. We are all VERY well aware of what happens when muslims get offended. Buildings get burned and people get killed. "

How about this.

"The study, conducted by the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security at Duke University, showed that last year twenty American Muslims had been arrested on charges of terrorism, down sharply from 2009’s peak of forty-seven.The spike in 2009, which has raised fears of increasing domestic radicalization, was largely an aberration due to the arrest of a group of seventeen Somali-Americans who had joined al-Shabaab in Somalia.

The number of plots by Muslim Americans against domestic targets dropped from eighteen in 2009 to ten in 2010.

Last year there were more than twenty plots by non-Muslims including Joseph Stack who crashed an airplane into an IRS building in Texas.

David Schanzer, director of the Triangle Center, said that the study, “puts into perspective the threat presented by domestic radicalization of Muslim Americans.”

He adds, “Americans should take note that these crimes are being perpetrated by a handful of people whose actions are denounced and rejected by virtually all the Muslims living in the United States.” [Homeland Security News Wire, February 15, 2011]

"What other group reacts like this? Yet you still defend them and claim that it’s everyone else who is a problem. I see no gangs of jews, xtians, sikhs, hinduhs, buddhists or any other group acting like this. "

Well, first of all, I am not defending or attacking any faith based group. Clearly secular in all of my thinking, but do respect the faith of others and the Constitutional right which is afforded in regard to the freedom of religious expressoin. I am clearly stating that all groups including "Jews, Xtians, Sikhs, Hinduhs, Buddhists" and "Muslims" (see capitalization of proper nouns does show respect) have fringe actors which do perpetuate acts of terror and promote subversive agendas.

You think that they don't behave like this?

Between 1980 and 2005, people of the Jewish faith actually perpetuated more successful and foiled domestic terrorist acts than those of the Muslim faith. I must note though that both those practicing Judaism and Muslim were pretty low on the radar in comparison to acts of terrorism by animal rights activists, environmental activists,

Latino groups - 42%
Extreme Left Wing Groups - 24%
Jewish Extremists - 7%
Islamic Extremists 6%
Communists - 5%

Again, this is not to paint any group worse than another. This is just to demonstrate that the perceived Islamic radicalization threat is pretty bogus.

As to European terrorism, the EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report from Europol shows that less than 1% of terrorism in Europe involves Muslims. As at February 2012, since 9/11, zero, zip, zilch US civilians have been killed in the US. In Europe, no European civilians have been killed by Islamic jihadists. One European security guard was slightly wounded by Islamic terrorism.

I will tackle the 2005 - 2011 terrorist stats in response to Tommy.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 5:30 am
"Question-- Why is it that muslims as one writer put it -never acknowledge the truth, and never tell it. "

Question - Why does Tommy continue to spout off bigotry and racism based on nothing but hate websites and will not acknowledge statistics that don't bear out his ideology?
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 5:34 am
Tommy - deflecting from the topic at hand which was about the 20,000 Muslim Americans attending the DNC and domestic terrorism, what don't you quite understand. You provide cases which you cribbed from Jihadwatch and AtlasShrugged which are Global, when the topic which has been discussed is about the lack of evidence supporting domestic terrorism regarding Islamic radicalization. I am not going to waste time with you because you cannot address or refute what is being discussed here and go off on another tangent. Once you address what is being discussed, maybe then we can talk about global terrorism.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 5:37 am
"Awesome post Tommy. This is how taqiya is put in it's place. But we shouldn't imagine that 'lies' will see 'The Lies Muslims Tell Him'. He is too blinded by silly conspiracy theories to actually cope with grasping reality. Sad really."

Completely a victim of the shiny object syndrome. Tommy's list has nothing to do with what is being discussed. If you were in the classroom, you would receive an F for not addressing what is being discussed. Is it just academic laziness or complete inability to actually stay on topic?
 

John Gregoire (261)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 5:39 am
Ok, now the liberals have opened their closet door! I hope that's the end of all the non-issue discussion and we get on to the important subjects that should be the focus of this election.

 

Tommy S. (11)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 8:30 am
@Lies My Country Told Me

It seems you neither understand islam or for that matter the topic-- unless you understand islam how can you comment on the topic-- Oops that's a no brainer for one who wears his ignorance with pride


 

Tommy S. (11)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 9:51 am

@lies my country told me
quote...I don't care if Islam is for good or not...Unquote --speaks volumes for your IQ
quote...I am not going to get into a Quranic pissing contest with any of you. You have all demonstrated that distorted, selective and manipulated translations of the Quran...Unquote
Hold up there it was not me misquoted the koran with the intent to deceive, but then you already know that.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 10:04 am
No really it speaks to your bigotry. It is not the issue whether you feel it is good or not. The discussion is about whether or not American Muslim radicalization resultant in terrorism is talking place. Rather than quote what you the Quran, why don't you come up with some facts.

Again, your only defense is personally attacking people and again, not providing any fact to back up your posts. You also would get an F for your defense of your own argument. Perhaps, along with Rob/Jay and Gillian you could post some more support for MY argument.
 

Kit B. (276)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 11:02 am

**To post this article of extreme ignorance and filled with hatred of all people of the Muslim faith, is exactly the same dialogue of repudiation of African Americans seeking nothing more then justice in society. Each of us is a human being, each of us needs to be accepted first for our humanity. This blend of ignorance and intolerance will never have a positive outcome. That of course, is not purpose of writing or following this twisted, short-sighted and cruel thinking. This is hateful thinking, prejudice and inhumane. I personally completely condemn this article and the act of supporting this open hate. I do realize that many find ways of justifying their need for hate. I ask you to remember when this exact language was used to murder 6 million Jews.
Normally, I would not comment on any article without noting, I find I cannot, in good conscience do that here, should that act in any way be misinterpreted as supportive of this slanderous view.

I watched a very good documentary called "In the name of...." It is not a slick, Hollywood story. It begins with pictures of a wedding in Amman, Jordan, a Muslim wedding and the inexplicable act of a suicide bomber. The couple married survived this attack though many of their family members were killed. This horrible act of murder led the husband on a journey to discover and expose the truths behind suicide bombers, the act of jihad and who is being killed. The overwhelming number of deaths are that of fellow Muslims.


A Short description:
Four years ago, Ashraf Al-Khaled and his bride were celebrating what was supposed to be the happiest day of their lives, when an Al-Qaeda suicide bomber walked into their wedding and blew himself up, killing both of their fathers in front of their eyes. The couple lost 27 members of their family that day. It's a sad fact that stories like Ashraf's pepper the news almost daily. In the last 5 years, over 88,000 people have been killed or injured in terrorist attacks worldwide. The majority, like Ashraf, were Muslims. How can someone be so robbed of their humanity that they happily commit mass murder and suicide? It's one of the fundamental human questions of our era, one that has haunted Ashraf since his wedding day, and what is now driving him to rise from horrific tragedy to take an unprecedented step - breaking the silence in the Muslim community on this taboo subject by speaking out against terrorism...
 

Russell R. (87)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 5:45 pm
Reading this thread - Helps me to understand why America is Fracked Up - Politician will sell their soul to get a vote. - In the last Presidential Election, Obama catered to the Gay community - I still remember from 9/11 what some Imam said about America and how they will take it without violence. This is why we had to give up so many of our Freedom and Rights, so that they can't hide behind our laws. Wire-tapping, surveillance, stop and seizure once needed a court order, not anymore. There is no such thing as a good muslim, not according to the laws of islam with allows deceit and lies to promote the cause of islam, which is to bring fought judgement day. They are sick and most of you are that claim to understand politics which is nothing but GREED
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 5:50 pm
This is what you get from it Russell. If this is your interpretation about events, loss of civil liberties, and even though statistically none of the "terrorist behind every bush", then God help us. It also seems that you have a problem with the gay community. What you think that affording people equal rights is pandering?
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Sunday August 26, 2012, 7:27 pm

You know what is even more boring? Is the constant denial of fact. Rather than refute what I say with something that actually is credible, research, perceived as a fact rather than fiction.

I certainly provided a lot more than reference to drinking the Kool-Aid. I provided support for my argument which you seem to be incapable of challenging or disproving.

Your whole paragraph # 4 is again completely contrary to evidence on hand which I clearly demonstrated. I posed Trevor Aaronson the question yesterday if the same tactics the FBI used to bolster their arrest record was applied to the Tea-Party. Guess what? It is not much of a stretch.

The "stats' and "reports" provided also demonstrated that Muslim Americans are not being radicalized en masse. In fact, until law enforcement pissed them off with the complete illegal eavesdropping of a house of worship, they were the ones providing law enforcement with information on suspicious activities.

In addition, you want to deport Muslim Americans because you feel that their religion is subversive to America? How many Muslims do you actually know and are friends with? I doubt any. You claim we are being subjected to jihad on a massive scale?? Again, what I provided also contradicts that.

No, we are talking about American Muslims and radicalization. When I think of radicalization of the United States, I think about the dangers of the hijacked GOP by the Tea-Party. They are the biggest threat to your liberties and Constitutional rights.

If you would have read anything reported on "Muslim" infiltration, that too was thoroughly debunked.

Isn't it so indicative of what an American thinks about intelligence. They provide absolutely no proof except what their fear mongers brainwash them with and then personally attack people through name calling because they are completely void of independent thought.

I can certainly go through Tommy's list and can definitely demonstrate that the threat is exaggerated there too. I am just sick of providing this and your response has nothing to do with fact, but just more hot air.

I have never said that there is no terrorism globally or domestically. What I am saying though is the threat of terrorism perpetuated by people who practice Islam are overblown. There are other groups which are just as much as a threat which we seem to completely ignore. Instead we demonize a religion that 1.2 billion people practice. In addition, you seem to have no problem (from your statements) of denying them their Constitutional rights where they as American citizens are afforded.

I do know what is going on in Europe and I'll bet that it is much more than you do. While you throw out religious quotes, I, again would provide fact to bear out what I am saying.

Considering the FBI silly plot has been actually gone before the Court, has been investigated and written about in almost every paper and was on the front burner for quite some time, I wonder how much you pay attention to the real world.

In fact, my "silly" plot has made it front page on the NY Times, Washington Post, BBC, the Nation, the Guardian, to name a few, I guess that they are all silly too.

Your posts make it pretty clear what your ideology is and the stories you note, run along the same line as Geller, Spencer and Horowitz. Not too much of a leap there.

If we were having a discussion about the Islamic religion, the discussion of the Quran would be important. Let's try this again. Since there is no data to support that Muslim Americans who are observant are more likely to commit acts of terror and in fact, seems to make them less susceptible to radicalization, then the Quran isn't relevant in the discussion, EXCEPT TO SAY IT STATISTICALLY DOESN'T SUPPORT your claims.
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Monday August 27, 2012, 9:38 am
Send a Green Star to Kit B.
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"

You cannot currently send a star to Kit because you have done so within the last week.
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Monday August 27, 2012, 6:31 pm
@ Lies you tell your country

I think you’re the one on the Kool-Aid.

"I certainly provided a lot more than reference to drinking the Kool-Aid. I provided support for my argument which you seem to be incapable of challenging or disproving."

"I have provided credible data which demonstrates that there is no huge threat of American Muslim terrorism waiting to pounce on unsuspecting citizens."

Let me re-post what I said. This time, try to stay focussed.

"I think it's pretty clear, even without all your 'stats' that America is not gripped in of waves of islamic terrorism. But you're missing the real point here. That's not what we are claiming. Europe isn’t gripped in waves of Islamic terrorism either, but it is gripped in a battle with islam. We are being subjected to jihad on a massive scale, and jihad doesn’t just mean spilling blood. It is any method that muslims can use to undermine and destroy it’s enemies."

Did you understand it this time? I AGREED that there was no wave of islamic terrorism in the US, or in Europe, yet you still have a go at me for not challenging or disproving it!! I think it’s time you cut down on the Kool-Aid and started paying attention.

What I am saying is that they wouldn't do that, considering what the ultimate goal is. And THAT is where you are being a complete moron. It's is perfectly clear to anyone who takes the time to look at the koran and the actions of muslims around the planet, that they are required by their religion to participate in violent jihad in order to force islam and sharia law on everyone everywhere and that they are doing just that.

In Europe and the US, they can’t get away with the usual tactics. But take a look at Nigeria, Thailand, Sudan, the ethnic cleansing in MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe. In these countries the tactic used is the same tactic used since mo invented his evil death cult 1400 years ago. Violent jihad.

“Far from being silent, Muslim-Americans have issued press releases, spoken out in mosques, and created community organizations to convey the message, in public and in private, that terrorism is religiously prohibited and strategically foolish.”

Religiously prohibited? Not a chance. That’s what you call taqiyya.

From the Koran:

2.216 Fighting is enjoined on you, and may be an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.


4.89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Strategically foolish? Now we’re talking! Of course it is. The idea is to increase in number until they are able to vote for the government of their choice, at which point you will have an islamic government, and it’s a VERY slippery downwards slope from there on in. This will take time, but they are prepared to wait. In the mean time, as the population rises, the trouble and the demands will increase. Just as is happening in Europe now.

I am working through the FBI website, and for now, most of what I am reading in a ‘Webster Report’ (there are a few) is people talking about ‘reaching out’ to muslim communities. WTF! Why should anyone in any non islamic country be reaching out to these people to accommodate their beliefs? These people chose to live in America or Europe or Australia or wherever, therefore they should abide by the laws of the country and accept the culture. There should be no pandering to them whatsoever. If they don’t like what they see, they should leave. But this is what they do. They play the victim card in order to claim special rights, which stupid politicians grant them. This way, they gradually chip away at the laws of any country they invade, in order to establish a separate, parallel culture within each country. This culture is always at odds with the host culture but those gullible fools who imagine that all cultures are equal seem to think that this is ok.

Let’s not forget the fact that EVERYONE is aware what happens when you speak out against islam and it’s atrocities. As I said before, buildings get burned and people get killed. The reaction of governments and lefties? “Well, what do you expect. They were insulted” The last time I said this, your defence was to claim that

“Between 1980 and 2005, people of the Jewish faith actually perpetuated more successful and foiled domestic terrorist acts than those of the Muslim faith”

Are you seriously suggesting that muslims are less violent than other groups? Can you remember the reaction to the Danish cartoons? This was worldwide. Buildings, specifically Danish Embassies, were burned and people died. Every time there is some perceived atrocity against islam, like burning pages from the Koran, muslims riot, property is seriously damaged and people die. How many times do jews react like this to the constant provocation by muslims in palestine and throughout the ME? What about other groups? And this is not a small percentage of cases. muslims in Greece rioted because they demanded more respect. REALLY??? Respect???!!!. Deportation would be the best response but they’d riot the world over if that happened too. muslims rioted over the Danish cartoons because it portrayed mo and muslims as violent. What utter stupidity! Their reaction to being accused of being violent, was to riot!!!

EVERY TIME they get offended, they get violent. This is NOT a trend we see in other groups. Only in islam. This at least should tell you something and start to ring alarm bells, but you prefer to be an ostrich.

Now, all this chattering you are indulging in is just a smoke screen to avoid answering my questions. You accused us of racism. I asked you to explain how opposing islam is racist. Please do so. You have also ignored my request for you to make clear your position on the belief that women are of less value than men? That homosexuals should be executed? That those who leave islam for another religion or no religion are to be executed? Will you condemn the killing of women who have been raped? Will you condemn the raping of virgins in prisons in order that they can then be killed, or as some believe, in order to prevent them from entering heaven? Will you condemn the ethnic cleansing going on in the 'arab spring' countries?

Again, if you think it's wrong of the American religious right to hold intolerant views towards women, homosexuals and non-believers, you must think it is wrong for muslims to hold those views too. Will you condemn them for that?

I also I asked you before, about the ex muslims who are warning us about the perils of ignoring islam, but you have not answered. Are they racist, bigoted islamophobes too? I asked you a number of questions which you have ignored. Will you give some answers please?

You seem to think that these questions about islamic beliefs are irrelevant. What utter stupidity. Why exactly are they irrelevant? Because they are inconvenient for you? I think so. If you do not try to understand how these people think you cannot understand what is going on. There seems to be an idea floating around with people like you and our stupid politicians, that if we give them what they want, they’ll stop demanding and they’ll come to realise that we in the west are nice people after all. This fails to take into account, just like you are failing to do, that this does not work with muslims. Their religion teaches them that they are superior to non muslims...
[8.55] Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.
...and that we must be subjugated and submit to islam.

2.193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors
There are enough claims of this by muslims for it to have come to your attention by now, but if you only pay attention to those dhimmis in waiting who want to persuade us all that islam is a religion of peace and that there is no threat from islam, you will not get it until it is too late.

If and when muslims get their way, no amount of favourable reports and statistics will save you. You are an expendable buffoon. You are being used to further their aims, you are a willing participant in the downfall of your own country and you don’t even know it.

The more we cave in to their demands, the more demands are made. Does a bully desist because he gets what he wants? Or does he keep on bullying? We all know the answer to this.

You asked if I know any muslims. I have known a few and I have mixed feelings about those people. Some displayed bigotry towards me, but as someone who’d been fooled into thinking that islam was a religion of peace, I excused them, accepting that the blame lay with how they have been treated by ‘westerners’. Others were reasonable enough people. I even had a pakistani muslim girlfriend who was, on the surface, a really nice person, but very much of the mind that muslims are a persecuted bunch. The trouble is, when you scratch the surface, a very different personality emerges.

But this is irrelevant. It is ‘bad science’.

Observation: I know some muslims, and they seem like really nice people.
Conclusion. muslims are lovely people. islam is a religion of peace. There is no threat from islam or muslims

I have spent some time in muslim communities. I have witnessed racism and bigotry. I STILL excused it, in some way believing that those responsible were somehow corrupted by our society. I still believed that islam was a better way and ‘the west’ was to blame. This was when I was blinded by the lies and misinformation fed to me by the muslims and their apologists, that I knew. Once I had started to pay attention to what I was ACTUALLY seeing, and stop making excuses for the behaviour of muslims and instead attempt to find out the truth about islam by reading the koran and opening up to the truth of the brutality and violence enacted by muslims, on muslims and non muslims the world over, I understood what a fool I’d been in allowing myself to be taken in by this ‘religion of peace’ bullshit.

A better way is:

Observation: muslims tell us that islam is a religion of peace, but muslims are quick to resort to violence; stonings, beheadings, suicide bombings, drive by shootings, calls for death to the west, support for Hitler’s final solution, ethnic cleansing, demands for sharia law, death threats, riots, demands that we change our ways to suit muslims, attacks on freedom, physical attacks on individuals, ethnic cleansing of areas of our cities, paedophile rings, rape of non muslim women for not covering up, honour killings, FGM, hostage taking and execution, no go areas in our cities for non muslims, threats to freedom of speech, assassination and attempted assassination of those who speak out against islam, marches on the streets of our cities demanding sharia law, the burning of churches with people inside, the attacks on xtian communities for ‘made up’ charges of blasphemy, protests outside places of worship of other religions, protests at the celebration of religious festivals of other religions, demands that we stop doing ANYTHING that they find offensive to them (... the list goes on and on)

Conclusion: the claims of ‘religion of peace’ cannot be upheld. There seems to be a problem with islam. We should investigate and address this problem before it is too late.

So, in conclusion, homegrown terrorism is irrelevant. They are saving that for later. The long term goal IS relevant. America is a prestigious target and, as such, the public approach is softly, softly. There is work being done to take over America, just like there is work being done to take over every non islamic country. The evidence is there for all to see... except for the ostriches amongst us.

Now, answer my questions. In particular:

Why is it racist to oppose islam?
Are the ex muslims who warn us of the danger we face from islam, also bigoted, racist islamophobes?


 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Monday August 27, 2012, 7:24 pm
You actually say that I am not answering your questions. Maybe when you want to refute facts and data, I will be more than happy to answer "your questions". Why don't you instead actually provide some evidence to back up what you are saying. Again you have posted twp lengthy arguments, but have provided nothing to support them. Youtube does not make for research. What next Wiki?
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Monday August 27, 2012, 7:33 pm
BTW, Nigeria is not a Muslim majority country. Christianity is.

Until you come up with something other than comments that people have posted on a youtube page, I am not wasting anymore of my time on this. It is embarrassing to see how ineffectual the American educational system seems to be, as it has become increasingly evident that many have no clue how to actually research something. Further, you seem to claim that there is no rampant Islamic radicalization in the EU and the US, yet want to deny American citizens their First Amendment rights in regard to the freedom of religious expression. I think that the biggest threat to the United States is the Tea-Party. You can read commentary just as vile as you posted above from your youtube post everywhere from T-baggers.
 

pam w. (191)
Monday August 27, 2012, 7:37 pm
I have a very different "take" on this issue and will state it briefly. I believe we need to be INCLUSIVE of Muslims because we (a) have so many of them and (b) need to do whatever we can to mainstream them.

Now, before some of you LEAP down my throat...I'll remind you of the statistics coming from Europe which show how many young Muslims there are leaving Islam because the benefits of a democratic society and personal freedoms are becoming evident to them.

This is what we need to do...IN MY OPINION...provide them with a voice, as long as it's a reasonable voice.

The President is INCLUSIVE....and I agree with his objectives.

Does this mean our security forces aren't surveiling for possible terrorist ac6tivity? Does this mean there aren't FBI agencies watching, heavily veiled? OF COURSE NOT! Those of you who ASSUME that our government is ignorant and unaware of the danger involved in militant Islam are assuming the worst without any knowledge of what really goes on in our military, our FBI and the CIA.

We live in a democratic society. We CLAIM to value all religions (and just possibly, SOME of us value atheists!) Until someone proves otherwise, we MUST give all of us the same rights as all of us. Anything else is creating a separate class of society....and that's unacceptable....no better than the governments of Islamic countries.

The Europeans have made some serious errors in allowing "political correctness" to dictate foolish policies and they're beginning to realize it and take steps to reverse it. This is a much larger country and we've had the advantage of watching what's happened "over there."

I'm very weary of people criticizing our President simply because he behaves as a statesman should. Don't you remember BUSH holding hands with some Saudi prince? It's what diplomats do...and whether YOU as an individual like it or not...he IS the President and he WILL represent us well with diplomatic manners and courtesy. You or I might get away with behaving differently....he is the President and cannot do that.

Finally...no, we DON'T have Sharia law here. State Supreme Courts have all ruled that it's unconstitutional to attempt to circumvent the laws of the US with other laws. I have no love or respect for Islam...but we cannot assume the worst about US citizens, simply based on their religion. I don't have any love or respect for fundamental Christianity, either. They are no better than the Taliban. Would you have us treat THEM as second-class citizens, too?

There are no simple solutions to this problem...and it IS a problem. Solving it will take education, a willingness to include, rather than exclude and time.



 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Monday August 27, 2012, 9:27 pm
Pam:

"Now, before some of you LEAP down my throat...I'll remind you of the statistics coming from Europe which show how many young Muslims there are leaving Islam because the benefits of a democratic society and personal freedoms are becoming evident to them. "

I certainly don't want to LEAP down your throat. I am in agreement that terrorism does exist, but the hysteria involving the Islamic threat is overblown and dangerous. While everyone is looking for Islamic radicalization leading to terror, other forms of terrorism which are much more prevalent are ignored. Both in the US and Europe, the Islamic threat of terrorism is by far overshadowed by terrorism by home-grown, non religious affiliated groups.

As for being vigilant and following the "make a terrorist" model of security are too different things. All reports indicate that in many, many cases, the "terrorists" would not have attempted to commit an act of terror without the FBI's agent provocateur.

I have a huge problem with the FBI "mosque trawling" (unconstitutional by the way) attempting to make people commit acts of terror. There is no specific target, no suspicion of anyone, basically a fishing expedition. It also has been demonstrated that people who are observant and are involved in the Muslim community (eg. mosque attendance)) are very unlikely to perpetuate acts of terror.

"We live in a democratic society. We CLAIM to value all religions (and just possibly, SOME of us value atheists!) Until someone proves otherwise, we MUST give all of us the same rights as all of us. "

In absolute agreement. We cannot deny the Constitutionally afforded freedom of religious expression to one group and call ourselves a democratic nation. As for terrorism, unfortunately we live in a world where terrorism is a fact of life and we must be vigilant. Targeting mosques in the manner the FBI does though leads to erosion of cooperation. It has been demonstrated that the Muslim community, mosques, etc. were of great assistance to law enforcement. Due to the FBIs tactics, this trust has now been broken. This has led to the loss this resource.

"I'll remind you of the statistics coming from Europe which show how many young Muslims there are leaving Islam because the benefits of a democratic society and personal freedoms are becoming evident to them. "

These are what the statistics coming from Europe are. In order to reference "statistics", it is helpful to actually look them up. This clearly indicates that the "Islamic" threat upon Europe is minimal in comparison to much greater threats.

TE-SAT EU TERRORISM SITUATION AND TREND REPORTS 2006 - 2011

What is Europol?

"Europol is the European law enforcement agency. Our job is to make Europe safer by assisting the Member States of the European Union in their fight against serious international crime and terrorism. Large–scale criminal and terrorist networks pose a significant threat to the internal security of the EU and to the safety and livelihood of its people. The biggest security threats come from terrorism, international drug trafficking and money laundering, organised fraud, counterfeiting of the euro currency, and people smuggling. But new dangers are also accumulating, in the form of cyber crime, trafficking in human beings, and other modern-day threats. This is a multi–billion euro business, quick to adapt to new opportunities and resilient in the face of traditional law enforcement measures."

2011 - Foiled and Implemented Acts of Terror

Religious - 0
Separatist - 110
Left Wing - 37
Right Wing - 1
Single Issue - 0
Not Specified - 26
Total - 174

Arrests for "terror related offences", 122 of 484 were Islamic affiliated and consisted of membership of terrorist organisations, financing of terrorism and logistical support, corroborating the enduring threat

2010 - Foiled and Implemented Acts of Terror

Islamist - 3
Separatist - 160
Left Wing - 45
Right Wing -0
Single Issue - 1
Not Specified - 40
Total - 249

Arrests for "terror related offences", 179 of 611 were Islamic affiliated and consisted of membership of terrorist organisations, financing of terrorism and logistical support, corroborating the enduring threat

2009 - Foiled and Implemented Acts of Terror
Religious - 1
Separatist - 237
Left Wing - 40
Right Wing - 4
Single Issue - 2
Not Specified - 10
Total - 294

Arrests for "terror related offences", 100 of 594 were Islamic affiliated and consisted of membership of terrorist organisations, financing of terrorism and logistical support, corroborating the enduring threat

2008 - Foiled and Implemented Acts of Terror

Islamist - 0
Separatist - 397
Left Wing - 28
Right Wing - 0
Single Issue - 5
Not Specified - 85
Total -515

Arrests for "terror related offences", 187 of 1009 were Islamic affiliated and consisted of membership of terrorist organisations, financing of terrorism and logistical support, corroborating the enduring threat.

2007 - Foiled and Implemented Acts of Terror

Islamist - 4
Separatist - 532
Left Wing - 21
Right Wing - 1
Single Issue - 1
Not Specified - 24
Total - 583

Arrests for "terror related offences", 201 of 1044 were Islamic affiliated and consisted of membership of terrorist organisations, financing of terrorism and logistical support, corroborating the enduring threat.

2006 - Foiled and Implemented Acts of Terror

Islamist - 1
Separatist - 424
Left Wing - 30
Right Wing - 1
Single Issue - 0
Not Specified - 16
Total - 472

Arrests for "terror related offences", 257 of 705 were Islamic affiliated and consisted of membership of terrorist organisations, financing of terrorism and logistical support, corroborating the enduring threat.
 

John W. (5)
Tuesday August 28, 2012, 7:38 am
Mabiolsa Ritchie

"Are you seriously suggesting that muslims are less violent than other groups? "

You asked this. Maybe they are far less violent than Christians.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cg.html

"Roman Catholic 50%, Protestant 20%, Kimbanguist 10%, Muslim 10%, other (includes syncretic sects and indigenous beliefs) 10%"

http://www.oxfam.org/en/emergencies/congo/stop-killing-in-congo

"The crisis in Congo is often known as the ‘forgotten conflict’, yet it is a war that has killed over 5 million people. We need your help right now to help ensure the UN peacekeepers in Congo get a new strong mandate to protect civilians from violence."

 

Gerry Moran (17)
Tuesday August 28, 2012, 3:27 pm
@ Lies you tell your country

"You actually say that I am not answering your questions."

Correct. I say this because you have not answered any yet. I think that's pretty clear, though you seem to be having trouble understanding it.

"Maybe when you want to refute facts and data, I will be more than happy to answer "your questions".

It's quite astounding how far an apologist for islam will go to avoid answering questions. Once again, you demand that I refute data which I have not disputed. I don't believe you are that stupid. This is just a diversionary tactic to avoid having to explain why it is racist to oppose islam, as you claimed, because you know you cannot provide an explanation. This claim of racism is just a way to shut people up. It carries no weight whatsoever because it is complete and utter nonsense designed to deter people from speaking out.

"Youtube does not make for research."

I posted a link to a Youtube video. It is a video record of muslims marching in the streets of London demanding sharia law for the UK. My point, as it always has been, is that this is the ultimate goal for muslims. If you were honest, you would see that, but you are determined not to see the truth. There is no need for statistics and research, when you can plainly see these people demanding to change the country into an islamic theocracy. You want to pretend that this video, if you even watched it, is not evidence because it is not in the form of an official report or official statistics, as if these things carried more weight than actual visual proof of this islamic movement at work. These people are not prepared to accept the UK as it is. They want secular law replaced by sharia law and for all UK residents to submit to islam. This is the same goal that muslims strive for the world over. This will happen in the US too and no amount of statistics you can muster will change that. Neither will sticking your head in the sand. You’ll only get your ass shafted.

Many of the muslims you are defending in the US will be of the same mindset because this is what their religion is about. This is why say that understanding islam is far more important than digesting statistics. It is required of them, by their religion, that they do this. The goal of islam is to govern over the entire population of the planet. Whilst you might want to bask in multicultural sunshine, muslims are simply biding their time until they are in high enough numbers to get what they want. Even if it wasn’t an actual plan, in time, there would always be enough muslims in any given country to influence the politics of that country. This will bring about a swing towards favouring islam and you have started down the slippery slope towards an islamic theocracy. This should be avoided at all costs considering the poor human rights record of islamic countries. It seems that this is just too much for you to grasp though. You prefer to play games with statistics, as if that will make any difference

"BTW, Nigeria is not a Muslim majority country. Christianity is.”

BTW, Christianity, is not a country.

I did not claim in my previous post that Nigeria was a muslim majority country. You are just grasping at straws. The actual split is disputed. I have seem demographic statistics for Nigeria which show that the split is 50% muslim, 40% xtian and 10% others, which is probably mostly what they refer to as cultists. That is, those who still follow the old tribal ways. My girlfriend is Nigerian, and disputes this saying that xtianity is still in the majority though some people claim that it is a 50/50 muslim/xtian split. It makes no difference which group is in the majority, and I can’t believe you’d actually try to make a point of that. It actually makes your case worse to point out that muslims are in the minority, yet they still cause mayhem because they demand that the country adopt sharia law. No. The actual statistics are irrelevant, but the regular slaughter of non muslims is VERY relevant and was my reason for mentioning Nigeria in the first place.

The trouble really kicked off when the previous president, a muslim, died. muslims were not keen on having an election because they were not prepared to give ground already won. They were not prepared to accept anything other than a muslim president. As it happens, a xtian, Goodluck Jonathon, was elected, and muslims reacted violently. In fact, the violence started before the elections took place, in an attempt to scare people away from the polling stations. muslims do not like the democratic process, at least not if it means they will lose.

Since then, there have been many attacks on xtians in the north of the country. In the south, muslims live freely, unharmed and unchallenged, whilst in the north, churches are burnt and xtians burnt with them, gunned down in the streets, or blown up by suicide bombings because muslims want an islamic country and shari law for everyone regardless of what anyone else wants or thinks. You don’t need statistics when this is going on in country after country. It is observable and clear. Ignore it at your peril.

“Until you come up with something other than comments that people have posted on a youtube page, I am not wasting anymore of my time on this.”

I have ‘come up with’ far more than a comment posted on a YouTube page. I have given you some quotes from the koran to demonstrate what is expected of muslims in their behaviour towards non mulsims. Again, you chose to ignore that because it is inconvenient. Those pesky facts again, huh? I did realise you’d jump all over that, but the comment was worth passing on. You can see from that comment, exactly how many muslims think. This is not an isolated fool spouting stupidity. We have seen the same thing in many European cities. There is plenty of footage to be found of muslims in London holding rallies and demonstrations demanding that those who criticise islam should be butchered or beheaded and that ‘Europe will pay’... for what? For daring to think that European people have the right to live as they please and not to surrender to islam. They called out for death to Europe, boasted that islam will dominate the world, revelled in the coming violence and proudly declared that muslims would take ‘our’ women as war booty.

No. This is not research or statistics. So, for you, it seems to have no weight. But... it is truth. It is mulsims in action doing what muslims are required to do by their belief system. To dominate the world using violence. If you understood this, you’d understand how stupid it is to talk statistics about an invading army amassing in your country. It is no exaggeration to describe the muslim population as a Trojan horse. But, hey. Not to worry, Your statistics make us all safe, right?

“ Further, you seem to claim that there is no rampant Islamic radicalization in the EU and the US, yet want to deny American citizens their First Amendment rights in regard to the freedom of religious expression.”

At some point in the future, you may get to understand the islam is not a religion. It is, as I said before, a political ideology masquerading as a religion. There is no tolerance of other religions or of anyone to live freely outside the bounds of sharia law and therefore muslims forfeit their right to religious freedom because their religious freedom means that other people’s freedoms come under attack. At some point, freedom has to be taken away if giving freedom to one group means infringing on other people’s rights. I think that is clear. If this is not done, how can there be freedom? Freedom cannot be for one group only. We cannot tolerate intolerance.

Now, you have played around and wasted time pretending that I’m not refuting your data, when I have stated at least three times now that I never did refute your data. This is, as I said, a diversionary tactic to try to avoid answering my questions. So, having made myself clear for the third time, please answer my questions as you promised you would.

Why is it racist to oppose islam?
Are the ex-muslims who come out to warn us about the dangers of islam, also bigoted, racist islamophobes?
Should we pay no attention to people who have grown up as muslims and who know the truth about islam, when they warn us of the dangers of pandering to muslim demands and the danger of what muslims intend to achieve?
Will you condemn islam for its attitudes towards homosexuals, women, polytheists, atheists and apostates?
Do you have any criticism of islam at all?
 

Jennifer Ward (40)
Tuesday August 28, 2012, 5:07 pm
The more I learn about Islam and its intent to dominate- the less I like it and fear for the future. Someone dubbed it 'The Religion of Perpetual Outrage'- how true. Its adherents riot and kill at the slightest perceived insult. Don't be misled with the honeyed words- actions speak louder. It is not a belief that belongs in the 21st century.
 

Ge M. (218)
Tuesday August 28, 2012, 5:35 pm
Lies, interesting that you use the same statistics that I did and ignored the results, that Muslims do not suffer from hate crimes but Jews do.

I would also point out that there was a major attack on America a few years ago or did you miss it? Some MUSLIM terrorists used planes to bring down the Twin Towers, attack the Pentagon and also attempted to destroy Camp David. In the UK we had 7/7 and prior to that Lockerbie. (I know that Texans do not believe that there is anything outside of Texas but there are other land masses which are actually bigger and people live there and they are called countries.)

There are deep concerns between links with groups, such as CAIR, with terrorist groups and extremist groups. This information is freely available on the internet for those who can be bothered to look for it. This group now has access to the information that the FBI uses on how to track terrorists, most of whom will be Muslim. As the FBI is the group that protects America from terrorists and terrorist attacks, is it not a bit like telling the fox how to get into and out of the hen house?

In March 2004, CAIR started a law suit against Andrew Whitehead who made claims that CAIR terrorist ties. These key statements that ones CAIR no longer deems legally improper, as they have decided not to contest them in court.

•[CAIR is an] organization founded by Hamas supporters….
•CAIR was started by Hamas members….
•CAIR … was founded by Islamic terrorists.

CAIR's leadership must have stretched its collective memory back to 1994 and recalled (along with counterterrorism expert Matthew Epstein) that Omar Ahmad and Nihad Awad, former officials of the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP), founded the organization, while IAP's president, Rafeeq Jabar, was (according to Steve Emerson) one of CAIR's founding directors.

Former FBI counterterrorism chief Oliver "Buck" Revell has described the IAP as "a front organization for Hamas." This linkage between the IAP and Hamas was decisively established in 2004, when a federal judge in Chicago found it partially liable for $156 million in damages for its role in aiding and abetting Hamas in the murder of David Boim, a 17-year-old American citizen.

And, CAIR no doubt remembered that it had been caught by Joe Kaufman exploiting the 9/11 attacks to raise funds for two Hamas-linked fundraising organizations, the Holy Land Foundation (HLF) and the Global Relief Foundation.

•[CAIR] is partially funded by terrorists…

Terrorists themselves don't literally give out money, but organizations that fund terrorism also fund CAIR.

We then go on to look at terrorists in America

Terrorist Training Camps in the US
http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/domestic-terrorism/terrorist-training-camps-in-the-us/660940716001/

35 Terror Training Camps Now Operating Inside U.S.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/381953/

Islam in America: Terrorist Training Camps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv1npwOZ0lk

Terrorist Training Camps In America, One Right Here In Virginia
http://84rules.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/terrorist-training-camps-in-america-one-right-here-in-virginia/

 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Tuesday August 28, 2012, 5:49 pm
"I did not claim in my previous post that Nigeria was a muslim majority country." Actually, yes you did.

This is what you posted "But take a look at Nigeria, Thailand, Sudan, the ethnic cleansing in MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe."

You listed three countries and within the same sentence wrote "the ethnic cleansing in MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe." This would lead any reasonable reader to infer that the countries, Nigeria, Thailand an Sudan were part of the the "MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe".

It seems that you want to play games of semantics rather than actually defend what you are claiming with hard statistical proof. Your next complaint is that you feel that I am referring to Christianity as a country.

This is what I wrote:

BTW, Nigeria is not a Muslim majority country. Christianity is.

I used the exact terminology you used except for using the term Muslim with Islam. I then alluded to Christianity which refers back to the initial statement "majority country" meaning that Christianity is prevalent in Nigeria. Just to make sure you understand, your claim which you deny having posted was demonstrated to be erroneous.

Apologist for Islam? Really Mabolsa. I can see you love those buzz words. Since I do not practice Islam, nor was raised in the Muslim faith and promote no religion, calling me an apologist is just more typical nonsense by people who cannot even provide one (1) credible, cited source. In addition, I have not denied EVER that terrorism by radicalized Islamists exists. What I have stated and provided credible, properly cited material which clearly shows that there are greater threats to the United States than radicalized Muslim terror.

Youtube is not in any WAY, SHAPE or FORM a credible source of anything. It is user driven, there is no accountability nor editorial oversight. In addition, no one is even disputing the actions in your video. What I am disputing is how relevant this is in the great scheme of things. I can also go onto youtube and find just as many videos of Christians doing some pretty horrible things. If actually believe that youtube reeks of credibility and belongs in fundamental academic conversation (which is what I am trying to participate in, but you seem to be failing miserably in that regard), then there is nothing really to discuss.

You demand answers from me, yet haven't addressed, refuted or even cast a shadow on any of the material I provided. You want to know why I called your statement "inherently racist"? To my knowledge, I looked through the whole threat and didn't see any instance of racism levelled towards you. Please be specific. I could have missed it and when you point it out, I will have no problem addressing it.

"Now, you have played around and wasted time pretending that I’m not refuting your data, when I have stated at least three times now that I never did refute your data. "

If you do not understand how this works, then I cannot help you. It is hopeless. I wouldn't be even attempting to steer you towards an academic advisor, I would be sending you back to grade school. I will try to piece this together for you so you can maybe understand how research, data collection, conclusions work. When the data derived from research demonstrates that it DOES NOT support ANY OF YOUR STATEMENTS, it means that YOU ARE WASTING PEOPLE'S TIME, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. To make statements which lie diametrically opposite of all evidence collected from verifiable, credible sources is like saying that the world is flat in opposition to all evidence pointing elsewhere. There is no other way around it. How do you not understand the basic fundamentals of arguing a point?
 

monica r. (41)
Tuesday August 28, 2012, 8:13 pm
Lies, damn lies, and statistics my country told me,

You state that the FBI, PEW, blah-blah-blah say NO mosques are radicalizing anyone, and are self-policing.

Really?
When 3 of the 9/11 terrorists were under al-Awlaki's tutelage, and when he became imam at the mosque in Virginia, they followed him across the country? Funny, cause 9/11 happened so where was the self-policing?
When the underwear and Times Square bombers both were in touch with this same imam?
When Nidal Hassan emailed with al-Awlaki about jihad and killing, culminating in a terror act?

You still say there's no such thing?

Al-Awlaki actually preached on Capitol Hill after 9/11. He must have been laughing his butt off knowing he'd given support to the terrorists and yet was asked to preach to muslim staffers in the Capitol.

You should read the quran and also check out Reliance of the Traveller.

Also, you probably deserve a death fatwa for suggesting there's more than one kind of quran. Real ones, and hater-bigot-infidel ones. No, there's just the one. And the quotes given here come from it. You've got a lot to learn about debating if you think that you can say any of that is false when you've never read it.

Actions speak louder than words. When there are radicals in your town screaming for infidels to be beheaded, maybe you'll believe it then. Has it occurred to you that actual events are more reliable than any statistics or recounting of said events? An observer adds their bias. A video of events speaks for itself.

None so blind. I was encouraged when you said you'd stop wasting our time here, but your logorrhea goes on unabated.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Tuesday August 28, 2012, 8:23 pm
"I would also point out that there was a major attack on America a few years ago or did you miss it".

Gillian, did you miss out on Anders Behring Breivik, a Christian, killing 89 people in Norway? How about Andrew Joseph Stack III, who flew an airplane into an IRS building in Austin, TX? See plane involvement too. How about the 29 Muslims massacred at Cave of Patriarchs?

Did you happen to miss the FBI's stats where in Europe from 2007 - 2011, less than 1% of acts of terror (foiled or executed) are due to Islamic radicalization? Did you also happen to miss that


CAIR is not a terrorist organization and through the FBI's tactics have now lost an important agency which self-policed the Muslim community.

You claim that Muslims don't suffer from hate crimes? Really. That is quite surprising. In fact, according to the FBI "In post 9/11, in 2001, hate crimes against Muslims rose 1,600%. Hate crimes against African Americans leads, followed by the Jewish population which I have not denied. I am not claiming that antisemitism is an issue, but to a) infer that all hate crimes against Jews is perpetuated by Muslims is false and b) to insinuate that hate crimes against Muslims is completely false and wrong.

Unfortunately, hate crimes are evident against any religion, race, gender, etc. To suggest though that Muslims aren't victims of hate crimes is not only wrong, but offensive. Why in the world would you deny this and for what purpose? We have Pamela Geller, who you post from, call for the destruction of a mosque which can very easily incite violence against American Muslims by ignorant bigots. You think that this type of rhetoric helps the situation. This is how you make people act violently against the establishment, by marginalizing them, violating their Constitutional rights and civil liberties.

You claim you provided material which I ignored?

Really.

Prove this one Gillian. "According to the FBI some 80% of mosques preach sedition and look for volunteers to become home grown terrorists."

First of all what you posted was not from the FBI Gillan. It was from some second rate blog in where the author admits that he has no training in any of this. In spite of this, he actually concurs with exactly what I have stated. His whole article reiterates the information gleaned from Trevor Aaronson who we interviewed this past weekend.

From the blog you directed me to:

“The government's marquee post-9/11 terrorism investigations, including cases such as the Miami Seven, the Ft. Dix Six and last year's Portland Christmas Tree Bomber, have not involved real attacks but, rather, have been sting operations involving plots invented by law enforcement"

“The defendants in these plots, most of them male Muslim immigrants with no history of terrorism or violence, have become unwitting actors in a disturbing theatrical performance: The FBI scripts the plot and provides the weapons, along with money, cars and any other logistical support needed to carry out the "attack."

“The defendants in these plots, most of them male Muslim immigrants with no history of terrorism or violence, have become unwitting actors in a disturbing theatrical performance: The FBI scripts the plot and provides the weapons, along with money, cars and any other logistical support needed to carry out the "attack."

"The details of the plot were choreographed in such detail that the presiding judge in the case chastised the government for its "decidedly troubling" tactics and concluded that the defendants would never have committed the attacks on their own. "The government made them terrorists," she said in delivering the minimum sentence for one of the defendants Sept. 7."

"Police have also used informants, known as "mosque crawlers," to monitor sermons, even when there's no evidence of wrongdoing."

"If FBI agents were to do that, they would be in violation of the Privacy Act, which prohibits the federal government from collecting intelligence on purely First Amendment activities. [Source: Matt Apuzzo and Adam Goldman, AP, August 23, 2011] " This has actually been proven. The FBI does use the same tactics used by the NYPD to go fishing for terrorists and "create" terrorists.

"Following one foiled plot, “the key informant in the case, Osama Eldawoody, said he attended hundreds of prayer services and collected information even on people who showed no signs of radicalization. "

From the judge regarding one of the FBI's "Informants".

"It was not the only time McMahon expressed doubts about Hussain’s honesty. “By the end of the trial, the jury knew that Hussain had lied about his finances to at least two courts (the Northern District of New York and the Northern District Bankruptcy Court), lied to the Immigration and Naturalization Service, lied to the Town of Colonie and its school district about his residence, lied to potential customers of his motel, and lied to the IRS about his income at tax time,” wrote McMahon"

More trouble for the FBI's informant.

"In late 2001, Hussain was arrested on federal fraud charges of helping immigrants illegally secure driver’s licenses. Hussain, who had been working as a translator for the Department of Motor Vehicles, faced a possible prison term and deportation to Pakistan. He pleaded guilty and, as part of his agreement with the government, cooperated with the FBI by going undercover to secure evidence against several former associates in the scheme, including his mistress."

This is all form the guy who is a criminal and presented the FBI with "terrorist" Cromitie, a mentally ill, Walmart stock boy which surprisingly (NOT) was not recorded due to the often "malfunctioning" recording equipment (some of the FBI's cases mysteriously are not recorded for MONTHS due to malfunction).

"Hussain left for Pakistan on Dec. 18, 2008, and didn’t return to the United States for two months. While he was away, the FBI briefed officials at Stewart International Airport in New York on the investigation but assured them that “Cromitie was unlikely to commit an act without the support of the FBI source.”

Of course, Cromitie dropped everything once Informant Hussain was gone but as soon as he got back was good to go, perhaps because (as Judge McMahon later wrote) “the court believes and specifically finds that it was about this time when Hussain offered Cromitie as much as a quarter million dollars to participate in a mission.”

So Gillian, where in the world does this refute anything that I said. Please be specific and don't be shy. You have statistics that do not bear out the hysteria you and your friends breed. It is nothing short of bigotry. It also keeps all of the eyes on the Islamic threat, leaving groups who perpetuate much more acts of terror wide and open to operate.

It would be really nice if you actually cited what you sourced. To actually post statements and claims without any substantiation makes it completely untruthful.

You make these accusations "CAIR is an] organization founded by Hamas supporters…" which you don't provide providence for, but surprise, surprise, where did they come from…. Daniel Pips, anti-car-net.org, jihadwatch, meforum, theblaze, cairunmasked.org. Excellent sources Gillian. Would it be too difficult for you to at least provide some information from blogs and websites that are known to perpetuate hate which is also thought to be by Abe Foxman, who is the head of the ADL, a Zionist and Jewish.

Considering there is no evidence whatsoever of rampant radicalization taking place at mosques and that the FBI's own statistics do not support the hysterical response in regard to Islamic terrorism, your rebuttal has about the same credibility as the mythical "Wizard of Oz".

Read the article you cited and please provide me with specific instances where you find I have missed the conclusions. THERE ARE NO CONCLUSIONS GILLIAN. It is just a mishmash of statements made in the press which you didn't even bother to look into and check their veracity.
 

Lies My Country Told Me (20)
Tuesday August 28, 2012, 9:11 pm
First of all, I had stated that there were 89 victims of Breivik. There were 77.

Monica:

Where did I deny that there was no incidence of radicalization anywhere? My point is a) the tactics of the FBI follow more of the "make terrorist model" than actually apprehending dangerous criminals and b) distract from other groups who actually participate in act of terror which have been and are still successful in their efforts. There are only so many resources and by exaggerating a threat by one group and minimizing the threat of others is dangerous. Look at what happened to Norway when everyone was looking for Muslim terrorists behind every bush. 77 people are dead.

To infer that I have claimed that there is no terrorism by foreign or domestic Muslims is wrong. While you are responding quite hysterically, along with your fellow posters, to the Islamic threat, you are completely unaware and really don't seem to care about terrorism by Christian groups, Jewish groups, Eco-groups, Animal Rights Groups, etc. That is my whole point. You are demonizing a religion based on what you all claim is the greatest terror threat, when statistically, including foiled plans does not bear out.

So if you want to refer to statistics, the PEW Report(s) and Duke/Sanford as "blah, blah, blah", it doesn't make me wrong, it just makes you look hysterical and quite T-partish. Do you happen to hail from Lubbock, West TX Monica?

I know where your reading of the Quran comes from Monica. From the same sources Gillian does, Tommy does and Rob/Jay does. They aren't credible sources. Dr. Jasser is an ass, plain and simple. He doesn't have any credibility. It fascinates me that you seem to have no use for the T-bagging rhetoric, except when it comes to this issue. When it comes to those who are of the Muslim faith, you are right up there as the band leader.

Isn't that nice and democratic. You are now suggesting that I should have a death fatwa? This is how you argue your point, but telling me I essentially deserve a death sentence? How absolutely ignorant and threatening. I really wonder who has the makings of a terrorist and if the FBI would even have to pay an Informant for their dirty work?

I said that the "translation" of the Quran, I certainly didn't say anything about more than one Quran. Do you know what the world translation means Monica? Obviously not. This again demonstrates your complete lack of comprehending what you are reading. You misread and yet, comment to me "blah, blah, blah: regarding credible, verified statistics and reports. This really leads me to question has anyone here every had to research or write paper EVER IN THEIR LIFE? No debate members here. Evidently not.


Where did I deny that Islamic radicalization did not occur? Here you go off on a tangent about al-Awlaki. Did I deny that he was a dangerous terrorist? If we are going to start to ignore what the evidence shows, and start denying people their Constitutional rights and civil liberties, vilify them, demonize them and treat them like second class citizens, we can start with the Christians. We can apply the same standards and paint all of Christianity with the blood that Anders Behring Breivik shed, indict or make sure we go and call Pamela Geller and company accomplices to terrorism. We can do the same for those who practice Judaism when David Goldstein gunned down 29 Muslim Palestinians while at prayer.

While we are at 9/11, how about going and wage war on the right country. The majority of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. Maybe the US should have gone and kicked their ass instead of leaving the mess that they did in Iraq. Hey, you shouldn't even object. The Saudis are as bad as human rights violators as the Iraqis are. What would you do though if their was an oil crisis. Nope, we can blame it on others and go and stay there for 10 years and leave it off worse than it was in the beginning. Pretty sad when the puppet government decides they have even had enough and tell the Americans to go home or else we will start indicting people.

Has it ever occurred to you that much of the unrest and terrorism comes from direct action of another country. It is not because they have an innate hatred towards the United States, they hate the United States because of what it does and what it supports.
 

Alexa R. (330)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 1:39 am
For those concerned about ALL terrorist organizations regardless of religion or nationality, here goes:

Foreign Terrorist Organizations
as of 27 December 2011

Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) are foreign organizations that are designated by the Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended. FTO designations play a critical role in our fight against terrorism and are an effective means of curtailing support for terrorist activities and pressuring groups to get out of the terrorism business.
Current List of Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations

Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMS)
Al-Shabaab
Ansar al-Islam (AAI)
Army of Islam (AOI)
Asbat al-Ansar
Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army (CPP/NPA)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group)
HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)
Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI)
Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah (Party of God)
Islamic Jihad Group
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed)
Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI)
Kahane Chai (Kach)
Kata'ib Hizballah (KH)
Kongra-Gel (KGK, formerly Kurdistan Workers' Party, PKK, KADEK)
Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous)
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM)
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
National Liberation Army (ELN)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Al-Qa’ida (AQ)
Al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
Al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
Real IRA (RIRA)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Organization 17 November
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Revolutionary Struggle (RS)
Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso, SL)
Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR) (al-Qaida in Iraq) (formerly Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad, JTJ, al-Zarqawi Network)
Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)
United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)

For more information, please visit:

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm
 

Alexa R. (330)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 1:56 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2011/jul/24/norway-anders-behring-breivik-beliefs

Norway mass murderer Anders Breivik's internet writings show him to be anti-Muslim and anti-Marxist, not a fundamentalist Christian. Photograph: Ho/Reuters

The Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, who shot dead more than 90 young socialists at their summer camp on Friday after mounting a huge bomb attack on the centre of Oslo, has been described as a fundamentalist Christian. Yet he published enough of his thoughts on the internet to make it clear that even in his saner moments his ideology had nothing to do with Christianity but was based on an atavistic horror of Muslims and a loathing of "Marxists", by which he meant anyone to the left of Genghis Khan.
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 2:12 am
Alexandra

Your list and post have a subtext, of course. You provide it as part of your Zionist campaing against Muslims.

Just because the Secretary of State designates an organisation as "terrorist" does not make that organisation so. Several of them are respectable freedom-fighting groups and have put on the list simply for political expediency or completely unjustly.
 

Stan B. (122)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 2:45 am
I find it incredible that people who consider themselves intelligent and well informed are unable to see the threat posed by Muslims in the US and the rest of the world. Perhaps if you close your eyes the threat will go away. Neville Chamberlain had the same idea just before the Nazis invaded Poland.
Here are some quotes from American Muslims: their own words.

On Jews

"Jews are an example of human Satans. This is why Jews are the founders of Satan worship and Masonic lodges, and are now trying to take over the entire globe in which the global religion is to be Satanism….In the US there are now thousands of temples where Satan is worshipped. This Satanism has now become the ultimate tool in the hands of Zionists. "


"The enemies of Islam all over the world under the leadership of the Zionist New World Order are poised to eliminate the Ummah [the worldwide Muslim community] or so is their conspiracy….We thus find today that all Muslim countries are ruled by kufirized [infidel] locals operating under the guise of Islam. All of these rulers are thoroughly under the Zionist New World order in every sphere of their mental outlook and conception. They today rule the World of Islam on behalf of their masters who dictate all the terms….Without Islam there is no Ummah, and no force to contest the Kufr Zionist New World Order….As we all know the Yahood (Jews), are master conspirators. They plot and plan for a century ahead. Since they are deprived of true belief in spite of their overt profession of faith and religion, they labor under the misconception that their plans will always remain on course….The setbacks which the enemies of Allah, are experiencing and which are impeding the full achievement of their satanic goals, all of which is part of the Divine Scheme of Allah...to save the Ummah from annihilation."

-- MOA E-mail message, January 3, 2002

"Every God-fearing individual, whether in America or abroad, must become informed of the heinous, barbaric, and purely sub-human nature of Zionism and all of its offshoots. It is the duty of every individual to become familiar with the nature and ways of Zionism and become educated to the whims and craftiness of these devils…"

--"The True Nature of Zionist Propaganda," MOA Web site


On Christians

"If you ask any Christian 'What is meant by belief in God Almighty?' he will not be able to give you any rational explanation. On the contrary, he will confuse you, and damage you psychologically…Christians would rather submit to the theory that they have killed their god and now believe in the supremacy and power of Satan. Try to imagine the type of mentality that is build upon such a belief: Masochism, suicide, Satanism…they confuse the matter still more by introducing the fable of the Risen Christ, but have never produced a solitary witness to testify that he or she actually saw Christ ascending…One certain factor in the propagation of this nonsense is that the priests want poor, simple folk to believe in Jesus as the Son of God, whereas Jesus himself never proclaimed to be such… The vicars of Christ, after having completely confused western man in the matter of belief, use this method to manipulate the people in such a way that the priests are accepted as gods who have the power to send people to Heaven, Hell, or atone their sins… By having put their god on a crucifix as opposed to executing Satan, they not only have blasphemed against the Wisdom and Judgment of God Almighty, but reduced Him to a role of subservience to Satan. Similarly, by attributing the words of the Bible to God, they also attribute all their fallacies, inaccuracies, irrationalities, lies, and contradictions to Him!

On Gays

"The agents of Shaytan (Satan) are many. Many efforts are put forth to mislead masses into darkness via Satanic philosophies, ideologies, and schisms brought forth to divide and keep humanity divided, resulting in immorality, bigotry, break-down of family structure, and numerous unspeakable crimes against humanity. A perfect example of this point would be homosexuality."


On America

"America is no longer the home of the free and the land of the brave. The constitution and the Bill of rights are just pieces of paper that don't mean a damn thing anymore, unless you are white and an anti Muslim hatemonger of course. The Ku Klux Klan no longer need to wear pointed hoods and remain underground, as they are sitting in the oval office and walking the halls of congress."

-- MOA E-mail, October 13, 2001

On Violence

"All Muslim nations are in danger because the enemy will not rest until it has subjugated (or eliminated) ISLAM from the map, while it defends the terrorism of Israel….We must put a stop to the violence and aggression against our peoples, by our people by force if necessary. We must work with each other and collectively refuse to accept the injustice and aggression of the West and [its] protege Israel. If we take these steps be assured that ALLAH…will do the rest."

-- MOA E-mail, December 14, 2001

"The Ummah cannot afford to sit back complacently as an idle observer witnessing his own destruction. Along with a return to Allah, Muslims are required to sacrifice and aid those who are in the forefront in the field to guard the Ummah and Islam. Rasulullah (Sallallahu-'Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) said 'that there will always remain a small devoted band of his followers who will remain ever vigilant, holding aloft the Standard of Islam...exposing themselves to dangers and sacrificing their all for the Love of Allah...Muslims who are unable to enter into this field of effort and sacrifice are at least required to aid this Holy Task with their Du'as [prayers] and financial resources and with whatever other means they possess. If the Muslims fail in this duty, they will most assuredly be apprehended by the Punishment of Allah..."


 

Diane O. (164)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 2:54 am
Stan, big green star coming your way!
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 3:01 am
Stan B

I can post this, but it wouldn't make me think that every single Jew thought like this or supported it. Yet you thionk that every Muslim - and Islam - is evil:--

Rabbi ben Yohai's edict is: "Even the best among the Gentiles deserves to be killed." (Abodan Zarah 26b).

Regarding and Gentile property rights, their possessions are "like unclaimed land in the desert." (Baba Bathra 54b).

"With respect to robbery: if one stole or robbed or seized a beautiful woman, or committed similar offenses, if these were perpetrated by one Gentile against another, the theft, etc., must not be kept, and likewise the theft from an Israelite by a gentile, but theft from a Gentile by an Israelite may be retained." (Sanhedrin 57a).

Here are further expressions of "brotherhood." Kosher-style, straight from the Talmud and its supplement, the Cabala:

Kethoboth 3b: "The seed (child) of a Christian is of no more value than that of a beast."

Baba Kama 113a: "A Jew may lie and perjure to condemn a Christian. b. "The name of God is not profaned when lying to Christians."

Hikkoth Akum X 1: "Do not save Christians in danger of death."

Kohar I 160a: "Jews must always try to deceive Christians."

Zohar I 25b: "Those who do good to Christians will never rise from the dead."

Zohar II 43a: "Extermination of Christians is a necessary sacrifice."

Zohar II 64b: "The Christian birthrate must be materially diminished."
 

Diane O. (164)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 3:13 am
In the United States of America, 82% of Americans identify as Christians. We are a Christian nation.
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 3:23 am
Dianre O

What do you mean by "a Christian nation"? Is Christianity the official state religion? Of course not.
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 3:46 am
John, ignorance is bliss but, on this occasion, it is just ignorance.

Whilst in the US the state and religion are separate, but the Pledge of Allegiance states "Under One G-d" and "In G-d we trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956, and for the person who obviously does not know the national anthem, this is the last verse:

O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In G-d is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Now if 83% of the population regard themselves as Christian then one would assume that Christianity is the predominant religion.
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 4:01 am
Lies "You know what is even more boring? Is the constant denial of fact." Yep, you are definitely boring.

First of all Anders Behring Breivik was not a terrorist nor was he ever described as such. If you want to introduce crimes then you should start with serious crimes such as rape.

According to a Norwegian police report released in June, every single solved case of assault-rape in the country in 2010 had been committed by a Muslim immigrant.

Out of a total of 186 rape cases in 2010, 86 were assault-rapes — rape perpetrated with physical force and violence. In 83 of the assault-rapes, the victims could identify the perpetrators. In all 83 cases, the perpetrators were described as having “non-western appearance” — an euphemism for Muslim immigrants from Africa, the Middle East, or Asia.

The report was cited by a Norwegian television station that interviewed a victim who said her rapist told her his religion permits him to rape her. (Note: the translation of the Norwegian TV report below does not make a distinction between “assault rape” and other forms of rape, and appears to confuse the statistics for 2010 with those for 2006-2010.)

That alarming statistic from Norway prompted Front Page magazine to republish an article by Jamie Glazov from its Nov. 1, 2006, issue. Below are excerpts.

~Eowyn

[T]he Mufti of Australia, Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali, …recently sparked an international stir by pronouncingthat women who do not veil themselves, and allow themselves to be “uncovered meat,” are at fault if they are raped.

This is nothing new, of course, and it is somewhat mysterious why the Sheikh’s comments have caused any shock at all, since his view is legitimized by various Islamic texts and numerous social and legal Islamic structures. And that is why back in September 2004 in Denmark, al-Hilali’s Australian counterpart, the Mufti Shahid Mehdi, declared exactly the same thing, stating that unveiled women are “asking for rape.”

All of this, in turn, explains the skyrocketing epidemic of Muslim rape in non-Islamic countries. Muslim newcomers are significantly overrepresented among convicted rapists and rape suspects throughout European nations such as Sweden, Norway, and Denmark.

No wonder why many Muslim rapists openly admit their actions and justify them smugly with casual references to their religious and cultural beliefs. This horrifying phenomenon was on display in a court trial in Australia last year, in which a Muslim rapist, going by the name ”MSK”, taunted his sobbing 14-year-old victim and proudly professed the legitimacy of his sexual assaults on young girls by explaining that his victims were not veiled — as the Islamic religion mandates women to be. [1]

“MSK” is from Pakistan. He is doing in Australia what he learned best back home: in some of the most notorious rural areas of Pakistan, gang rape is officially sanctioned as a legitimate form of keeping women marginalized and “in their place.” As noted earlier, certain realms of Islam help institutionalize this form of violent misogyny. The Koran, for instance, permits Muslim men to enslave – and have sexual relations with – the women of unbelievers captured in the spoils of war (Sura 4:23-24). The Islamic legal manual ‘Umdat al-Salik, which is endorsed by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, sanctions this violence, affirming that Muslims can enslave captured infidel women and make them concubines.

[...] In traditional Islamic law, rape cannot be proven unless four males testify as witnesses (Sura 24:4 and 24:13). In other words, raped women cannot get justice anywhere Islamic law prevails. More horrifying still, a woman who has the courage to say she was raped, and fails to produce the four male witnesses (which is obviously almost always the case), ends up being punished because her accusation is regarded as an admission of pre-marital sex or adultery. And this is why seventy-five percent of the women in prison in Pakistan are behind bars for the crime of being a victim of rape.

In Holland, myriad women now bear the horrible scar that has infamously become known as “smiley,” whereby one side of the face is cut up from mouth to ear – a war mark left by Muslim rapists as a warning to other women who don’t veil themselves.

In France, the phenomenon of Muslim gang rape as punishment for non-veiling even has a word to describe it: “tournante” (take your turn). In areas where Muslims form the majority (i.e. the Muslim suburb of Courneuve, France), even non-Muslim women feel pressured to veil themselves in fear of Muslim sexual and physical punishment.

In the context of this epidemic of Muslim violence against women, and the open legitimization of it pronounced by Islamic clerics, one would think that the Western feminists of our time would be up in arms, sympathetically coming to the side of their raped sisters and standing up for women’s rights in general.

But this is just not the case. The West’s leftist feminists are responding with an apathetic heartlessness and deafening silence.

It’s all very much understandable and expected, of course: it is politically correct and cutting-edge to scream with moral indignation about a woman’s right to an abortion in the West, but to actually care for – and come to the public defense of – the female victim of a gang-rape committed by Muslims is unthinkable. This is so because admitting the Muslim rape epidemic, and the theology and institutions on which it is based, and denouncing it, would violate the central code of the “progressive” leftist faith: anti-Americanism and cultural relativism. No culture can be said to be better than any other – unless it is American culture, which is always fair game for derision and ridicule. But to criticize any Third World culture in general – and an adversary culture in particular – is to surrender the political cause and faith.

And that’s why leftist feminists are also completely mum on the horrors of forced marriages, honor killings and female genital mutilation within the Islamic world.

[...] Western leftist feminists couldn’t care less about real actual breathing women; they care only about their ideological beliefs. For them, the victims of Muslim rape can be easily forgotten and dismissed — for the pursuit of their ultimate goal: to aid and abet the West’s totalitarian enemies and to wreak the destruction of their own free societies which bestow the individual liberties and rights that they despise and abhor.

Swedish girls Malin and Amanda were on their way to a party on New Year's Eve when they were assaulted, raped and beaten half to death by four Somali immigrants. Sweden's largest newspaper has presented the perpetrators as "two men from Sweden, one from Finland and one from Somalia", a testimony as to how bad the informal censorship is in stories related to immigration in Sweden. Similar incidents are reported with shocking frequency, to the point where some observers fear that law and order is completely breaking down in the country. The number of rape charges in Sweden has tripled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six - 6 - times as common today as they were a generation ago. Most other kinds of violent crime have rapidly increased, too. Instability is spreading to most urban and suburban areas.

According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population than any other country in northern Europe. The numbers there are likely to be at least as bad as with its Scandinavian neighbors. The actual number is thus probably even higher than what the authorities are reporting now, as it doesn't include second generation immigrants. Lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm, who has investigated violent crimes in Svea high court, found that 85 per cent of the convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or by foreign parents.

Then there are the 2 large groups of Muslim sexual predators that abused white English girls. Part of the issue was that the police knew and failed to stop them as they were scared of being accused of racism.


When she first arrived in Sweden after her rescue from a Nazi concentration camp, Judith Popinski was treated with great kindness.


She raised a family in the city of Malmo, and for the next six decades lived happily in her adopted homeland - until last year.


In 2009, a chapel serving the city's 700-strong Jewish community was set ablaze. Jewish cemeteries were repeatedly desecrated, worshippers were abused on their way home from prayer, and "Hitler" was mockingly chanted in the streets by masked men.


"I never thought I would see this hatred again in my lifetime, not in Sweden anyway," Mrs Popinski told The Sunday Telegraph.


"This new hatred comes from Muslim immigrants. The Jewish people are afraid now."


Malmo's Jews, however, do not just point the finger at bigoted Muslims and their fellow racists in the country's Neo-Nazi fringe. They also accuse Ilmar Reepalu, the Left-wing mayor who has been in power for 15 years, of failing to protect them.

Mr Reepalu, who is blamed for lax policing, is at the centre of a growing controversy for saying that what the Jews perceive as naked anti-Semitism is in fact just a sad, but understandable consequence of Israeli policy in the Middle East.

While his views are far from unusual on the European liberal-left, which is often accused of a pro-Palestinian bias, his Jewish critics say they encourage young Muslim hotheads to abuse and harass them.

The future looks so bleak that by one estimate, around 30 Jewish families have already left for Stockholm, England or Israel, and more are preparing to go.

With its young people planning new lives elsewhere, the remaining Jewish households, many of whom are made up of Holocaust survivors and their descendants, fear they will soon be gone altogether. Mrs Popinski, an 86-year-old widow, said she has even encountered hostility when invited to talk about the Holocaust in schools.

"Muslim schoolchildren often ignore me now when I talk about my experiences in the camps," she said. "It is because of what their parents tell them about Jews. The hatreds of the Middle East have come to Malmo. Schools in Muslim areas of the city simply won't invite Holocaust survivors to speak any more."

Hate crimes, mainly directed against Jews, doubled last year with Malmo's police recording 79 incidents and admitting that far more probably went unreported. As of yet, no direct attacks on people have been recorded but many Jews believe it is only a matter of time in the current climate.

The city's synagogue has guards and rocket-proof glass in the windows, while the Jewish kindergarten can only be reached through thick steel security doors.

It is a far cry from the city Mrs Popinski arrived in 65 years ago, half-dead from starvation and typhus.

At Auschwitz she had been separated from her Polish family, all of whom were murdered. She escaped the gas chambers after being sent as a slave labourer. Then she was moved to a womens' concentration camp, Ravensbrück, from where she was then evacuated in a release deal negotiated between the Swedish Red Cross and senior Nazis, who were by then trying to save their own lives.

After the war, just as liberal Sweden took in Jews who survived the Holocaust as a humanitarian act, it also took in new waves of refugees from tyranny and conflicts in the Middle East. Muslims are now estimated to make up about a fifth of Malmo's population of nearly 300,000.

"This new hatred from a group 40,000-strong is focused on a small group of Jews," Mrs Popinski said, speaking in a sitting room filled with paintings and Persian carpets.

"Some Swedish politicians are letting them do it, including the mayor. Of course the Muslims have more votes than the Jews."

The worst incident was last year during Israel's brief war in Gaza, when a small demonstration in favour of Israel was attacked by a screaming mob of Arabs and Swedish leftists, who threw bottles and firecrackers as the police looked on.

"I haven't seen hatred like that for decades," Mrs Popinski said. "It reminded me of what I saw in my youth. Jews feel vulnerable here now."

The problem is becoming an embarrassment for the Social Democrats, the mayor's party.

Their national leader Mona Sahlin - the woman who is likely to become the next prime minister after an election later this year - last week travelled to Malmo to meet Jewish leaders, which they took to be a sign that at last politicians are waking to their plight. After the meeting, the mayor, Mr Reepalu, also promised to meet them.

A former architect, he has been credited with revitalising Malmo from a half-derelict shipbuilding centre into a vibrant, prosperous city with successful IT and biotech sectors.

His city was - until recently at least - a shining multicultural success story, and has taken in proportionally more refugees than anywhere else in Sweden, a record of which it is proud.

Sweden has had a long record of offering a safe haven to Jews, the first of whom arrived from the east in the mid-nineteenth century. Today the Jewish population is about 18,000 nationally, with around 3000 in southern Sweden.

The mayor insisted to The Sunday Telegraph that he was opposed to anti-Semitism, but added: "I believe these are anti-Israel attacks, connected to the war in Gaza.

"We want Malmo to be cosmopolitan and safe for everybody and we have taken action. I have started a dialogue forum. There haven't been any attacks on Jewish people, and if Jews from the city want to move to Israel that is not a matter for Malmo."

Sweden has had a long record of offering a safe haven to Jews, the first of whom arrived from the east in the mid-nineteenth century. Today the Jewish population is about 18,000 nationally, with around 3000 in southern Sweden.

“Jews came to Sweden to get away from persecution, and now they find it is no longer a safe haven,” said Rabbi Shneur Kesselman, 31. “That is a horrible feeling.”

One who has had enough is Marcus Eilenberg, a 32-year-old Malmo-born lawyer, who is moving to Israel in April with his young family.

"Malmo has really changed in the past year," he said. "I am optimistic by nature, but I have no faith in a future here for my children. There is definitely a threat.

"It started during the Gaza war when Jewish demonstrators were attacked. It was a horrible feeling, being attacked in your own city. Just as bad was the realisation that we were not being protected by our own leaders."

Mr Eilenberg said he and his wife considered moving to Stockholm where Jews feel safer than in Malmo. "But we decided not to because in five years time I think it will be just as bad there," he said.

"This is happening all over Europe. I have cousins who are leaving their homes in Amsterdam and France for the same reason as me."

Malmo's Jews are not the only ones to suffer hate crimes.

At the city's Islamic Centre, the director Bejzat Becirov pointed out a bullet hole in the window behind the main reception desk.

Mr Becirov, who arrived in 1962 from the former Yugoslavia, said that windows were regularly smashed, pig's heads had been left outside the mosque, and outbuildings burnt down - probably the acts of Neo-Nazis who have also baited Jews in the past.

He said that the harassment of Jews by some young Muslims was "embarrassing" to his community. Many of them are unemployed and confined to life on bleak estates where the Scandinavian dream of prosperity and equality seemed far away.

For many of Malmo's white Swedish population, meanwhile, the racial problems are bewildering after years of liberal immigration policies.

"I first encountered race hatred when I was an au pair in England and I was shocked," said Mrs Popinski's friend Ulla-Lena Cavling, 72, a retired teacher.

"I thought 'this couldn't happen in Sweden'. Now I know otherwise."
 

Stan B. (122)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 4:11 am
John W. Could you please give me the source of your Talmudic quotes. I have a feeling they're from a Canadian hate site and I doubt their authenticity.
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 4:15 am
Oh, Stan B who uses hate sites queries my sources. Dear oh dear. They're actually from rense.

Stan, are you that thick? They were illustrative only and meant to show you that anyone can post anything from anywhere and that people like you extrapolate from these types of quotes to demonise an entire religion and that people like me don't

Get it?
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 4:19 am
Poor pathetic Gillian tyrots out the same old things, no matter that they are lies.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/debunked-zionist-and-islamophobic-libel-rape-epidemic-muslims-norway

Debunked: the Zionist and Islamophobic libel of a "rape epidemic" by Muslims in Norway
Submitted by Ali Abunimah on Thu, 12/29/2011 - 04:50

Islamophobic and Zionist websites are actively promoting a claim that Norway – and perhaps Europe – is experiencing an “epidemic” of rapes carried out by Muslim men.

This has been given added credibility for some because the claim appears to be based on data in a recent research study by the Oslo Police District, and a news report on that study by Norway’s state broadcaster NRK.

But the claim is completely false. In fact, as The Electronic Intifada discovered and this post will explain, the Oslo Police study found that most rapes in Norway are carried out by men of Norwegian and European background. More importantly, the evidence shows that there is no link between ethnicity, culture or religion and propensity to carry out rapes or sexual assaults.
The “black brute” and the ugly racist history of the rape libel

The rape libel is one of the worst that can be leveled against any group of people, for it is often a justification for dehumanization and organized violence. It was notoriously used to justify lynchings of black men in the southern United States during the Jim Crow era. But now the defamatory stereotype of the “black brute” intent on raping white women is being joined by the racialized Muslim brute.
Islamophobic agitators promote rape libel against Muslims

The rape libel against Muslim men has been repeated on dozens of Zionist and Islamophobic websites, including those frequently cited by Anders Breivik, the man who killed dozens of people on 22 July in the name of protecting Norway from an imagined Muslim takeover.

On 28 May, less than two months before Breivik killed 69 people in Oslo and the island of Utøya, notorious Islamophobe Pamela Geller published an item claiming that in Norway, “All rapes in past 5 years committed by Muslims ‘non-western’ immigrants.”

The same day, Robert Spencer, another Islamophobic inciter frequently cited by Breivik claimed on his JihadWatch website: “Meanwhile, all rapes in Norway in the last five years have been committed by…uh…’non-Western immigrants,’ the latest euphemism for Muslims.”

Spencer also posted a subtitled report from Norway’s state broadcaster NHK which appears to corroborate the claim.

The rape libel also entered the mainstream of US radical Christianist media. A 20 August 2011 report from Pat Robertson’s Christian Broadcasting Network claimed:

Something else that Muslim immigration appears to have brought to Norway is what some here call “a rape epidemic.”

That report, like so many others, used the rape libel to incite fear of a Muslim takeover.
Promotion by Israeli sources

Norway is suffering from an unprecedented wave of rapes that are largely being perpetrated by Muslim immigrants against local women, according to Yehuda Bello, an acclaimed Israeli blogger whose special interests include Norway.

This was the horrifying claim made by the widely read Israel National News (INN) website earlier this month in an item titled “Muslim ‘Rape Wave’ Reported in Oslo.

INN continues:

Bello says women do not dare venture out of their homes after dark in many parts of Oslo and that many have even dyed their hair black, out of the conviction that blond hair is more alluring to the rapists.

As a quick search will reveal, the INN report can be found on dozens of Zionist, radical Christianist and Islamophobic blogs.

In recent weeks, the popular Israeli “satire” show LatmaTV, backed by an American Neoconservative think-tank, the Center for Security Policy, included the rape libel in an Islamophobic video. In one sequence, a Norwegian father tells his blonde daughter about Muslims: “When they rape you don’t object for that is politically incorrect.”
Misleading and grossly distorted Norwegian TV report
http://youtu.be/K_rHFKRwv5Y

When the Oslo Police District research study was published, Norway’s state broadcaster NRK carried a report on it. A YouTube video of the report was posted by Geller, Spencer and many other websites to give credibility to the rape libel. It is unclear who made the English subtitles on the YouTube. They begin:

In Oslo, all sexual assaults involving rape in the past year has [sic] been committed by males of non-western background this was the conclusion of a police report published today.

This means that every rape assault in the last five years, where the rapist could be identified, he was a man of foreign origin.

The TV report then profiled one victim of a sexual assault. It described the victim as “ethnic Norwegian” and showed her from behind – a young woman with blond hair. It described the perpetrator as a man of “Pakistani heritage,” according to the subtitles.

The TV report suggested that the man’s religion and views of women could explain his behavior. But it never actually uses the word “Muslim,” only the term “non-western.” The conclusion that all the rapists were Muslims appears to be an embellishment by the likes of Pamela Geller.

The TV report also cited figures from the police study claiming that in 83 out of 86 cases of sexual assault involving rape from 2005-2010 the perpetrator was described as “non-Western” in appearance.

Yet an examination of the police research study itself reveals that the Norwegian TV report grossly distorts the findings and omits essential information resulting in a wholly misleading picture..

In light of the findings below, civil rights and anti-racism groups should consider lodging formal complaints against NRK for the gross bias and lack of objectivity of this report which has provided ammunition to racists and Islamophobes all over the world.
What the Oslo Police District research on rape really says

The 88-page research study is titled “Voldtekt i den globale byen” (Rape in the Global Village) and is authored by Marianne Saetre and Veslemøy Grytdal.

The Electronic Intifada had relevant sections of the report (pages 51-56) professionally translated into English. These pages are attached to this post in their entirety along with a PDF of the original Norwegian report for comparison.
A taxonomy of sexual assault

The study distinguishes among different types of sexual assault involving rape: party-related, relationship, vulnerability and assault. The technical definitions are based on the circumstances in which the rape takes place and/or the relationship between attacker and victim.

Assault rape – stereotypically an attack by a stranger – is the rarest form of rape. Out of the 152 reported rapes in the Oslo Police District in 2010, 6 were classified by the researchers as “assault” rapes.
Citizenship of the rapists

The vast majority of rapists in Norway are Norwegian citizens and three quarters are European citizens. The police study states on page 52:

The majority of registered perpetrators in cases of reported rape in Oslo in 2010 have Norwegian citizenship, as has been the case in every previous rape study. In 2010 this went for 61.2% of the perpetrators, which is relatively stable compared to the material from 2007 (60.3%). A relatively high proportion, 12.5%, of the registered perpetrators are from other parts of Europe, and taken together almost three quarters of the perpetrators in 2010 have European citizenship. For the rest, 10.5% are from Africa, 9.2% from the Middle East, 4.6% from Asia and 2% from America.

Ethnic background: “Europeans” were the largest group of rapists

According to the Oslo Police study, persons of Norwegian background were the largest group among the identified rapists and persons of “European” background comprised more than half. The 152 rapes in 2010 were carried out by 131 suspects. The study states on pages 53-54:

The proportion of perpetrators (unique persons) of Norwegian national background is the group whose representation increases the most, comprising 38.2% of perpetrators. Together this brings the proportion of perpetrators with a European continental background to a total of 51.9%.

Assault rape and the relevance of ethnic background

The authors of the Oslo Police study appear to be aware that they are writing in a context where rape and other crimes are being generally blamed on foreigners. They write:

Crude generalizations that have given the impression that rapists are only foreigners – and primarily Muslims – are shown to be inadequate and erroneous.

The study notes that while there are no Norwegian rapists in the six assault rapes in 2010 where the perpetrator is identified, the number of cases is very small and the circumstances very “special.” When taking a broader sample of assault rapes, there is more diversity among the perpetrators. On pages 55-56:

The ethnic profile varies within the different types of rape, but for all types except assault rape the largest group is composed of Norwegian perpetrators. Assault rape only comprises 6 cases, however, and the same perpetrator was responsible for two of these (there were 5 unique suspects/persons seen in 6 reports). In 4 of the six reports (3 unique men) the perpetrator was from the Middle-East, in one assault rape the man was from Africa, and in another, from Asia.

Claims that all assault rapes are committed by foreigners are thus supported by these figures, although the basis for the claims is small and the selection is special. Two of the five different identified perpetrators responsible for the assault rapes were very young – less than 18 – and two had serious psychiatric diagnoses. If you extend the material to cover the 16 assault rape cases in which the person is unidentified, but where a description has been provided by the victim, another picture emerges: 8 of the perpetrators were of African/dark-skinned appearance, 5 were western/fair-haired/Nordic and 4 looked Asian. It is not certain how many different people provided these descriptions of the perpetrators, as the perpetrators of assault rapes tend to commit several violations.

“Alien culture” is not an explanation for rape

The Police research study stresses that ethnicity itself is not a factor. What are factors contributing to assault rapes are when perpetrators are on the margins of society. On page 56:

It must be emphasized once more that the marked over-representation of individuals from a minority background in connection with several types of rape cannot be interpreted as a result of alien culture being a causal explanation for rape. The reports apply to only a few of the rapes that occur, and the inclination to report rape is different for perpetrators of Norwegian origin than it is for those of a different country of origin. Furthermore there is thorough quantitative research to confirm that statistical differences in criminal behavior between ethnic groups disappear when the figures are controlled for the socio-economic circumstances in which the individuals concerned have grown up in Norway.

Norway has a sexual assault problem and it’s not a “Muslim” problem

There is enough research from all over the world demonstrating that rape and sexual assault are, unfortunately, universal problems that cross all national, geographic, ethnic and religious boundaries.

This was underscored by a recent study which found, as The New York Times reported:

One in 10 Norwegian women over the age of 15 has been raped, according to the country’s largest shelter organization, the Secretariat of the Shelter Movement. But at least 80 percent of these cases are never brought to official attention and only 10 percent of those that are end in a conviction, the Justice Ministry says.

Nowhere is this taboo more stubborn than in the family home, long considered off-limits for law enforcement and the state.

“The statistics tell us that the safest place for women is outside, on the street – most rapes happen at home,” said Tove Smaadahl, general manager of the Shelter Movement. In a 2005 survey by the Norwegian Institute for Urban and Regional Research, 9 percent of female respondents in a relationship reported experiencing sexual assault.

Even worse in the United States

In the United States the situation is similar, but possibly even worse, as The New York Times also reported this month:

An exhaustive government survey of rape and domestic violence released on Wednesday [14 December] affirmed that sexual violence against women remains endemic in the United States and in some instances may be far more common than previously thought.

Nearly one in five women surveyed said they had been raped or had experienced an attempted rape at some point, and one in four reported having been beaten by an intimate partner. One in six women have been stalked, according to the report.

Can Pamela Geller, Pat Robertson, and Israel National News find a way to blame all of this on Muslims?
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 4:56 am
Abde, itis interesting how you always ignore comments about Muslim behaviour and merely attack Israel, Jews & Zionists. I can only assume that you cannot defend the indefensible. Egypt had a great opportunity to bring together all Egyptians regardless of religion but, instead, the government started with the most important part of being a Muslim, introducing paedophilia by dropping the marriage age of girls to 9 years old. Confirming slavery by having a slave marriage on TV. By sending Christians to prison for being attacked by Muslims. All such perversions and brutality being supported by the "holy" books. You may quote love comments but these have been superseded and replaced by hate laws and you display this hatred very clearly and continuously. Your way of dealing with it is to blame others and accuse them instead. No religious requirement tells Jews, Christians etc to kill those of other religions. No other religion requires that you lie to promote it. All you are attempting to do is to blame others, a trait that many Muslims use.

To make such a point many of us continually have to remind people that we do not hate Islam nor Muslims. We hate the extremism and the perversions that some use to justify uncivilised behaviour. We object to certain parts of Islam that are used to promote abuses against women, children and often other men. I have yet to see you apologise for accusing all Jews, Zionists or Israelis of being whatever it is you decide to accuse them of. I have yet to see you condemn any violence by your people, or other Muslims, in any board. I did not see any condemnation of your new laws and, yet again, can only assume that you have your own personal reasons/agenda for not doing so.

Attack on Nigerian town kills more than 200
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/03/07/nigeria.violence/index.html

Muslim Extremist Attacks on Christians on the Rise in Africa
http://answersforthefaith.com/2012/01/21/muslim-extremist-attacks-on-christians-on-the-rise-in-africa/

Boko Haram: Nigerian Islamist leader defends attacks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-16510929

Muslims Burn Churches in Africa
http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/muslims-burn-churches-in-africa.html

Christians killed in Nigeria attack
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2010/07/201071717329277497.html

Muslim Radicals Kill 17 Christians, Attack Two Churches in Kenya
http://www.persecution.org/2012/07/01/muslim-radicals-kill-17-christians-attack-two-churches-in-kenya/

Indonesia: List of Attacks against Churches in May
http://www.persecution.org/2012/07/01/indonesia-list-of-attacks-against-churches-in-may/

Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/organizations/a/al_qaeda_in_the_islamic_maghreb/index.html
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 5:11 am
Lies, interesting that you use the same statistics that I did and ignored the results, that Muslims do not suffer from hate crimes but Jews do.

I would also point out that there was a major attack on America a few years ago or did you miss it? Some MUSLIM terrorists used planes to bring down the Twin Towers, attack the Pentagon and also attempted to destroy Camp David. In the UK we had 7/7 and prior to that Lockerbie. (I know that Texans do not believe that there is anything outside of Texas but there are other land masses which are actually bigger and people live there and they are called countries.) Nor do I ever rely on one source as you seem to do.

There are deep concerns between links with groups, such as CAIR, with terrorist groups and extremist groups. This information is freely available on the internet for those who can be bothered to look for it. This group now has access to the information that the FBI uses on how to track terrorists, most of whom will be Muslim. As the FBI is the group that protects America from terrorists and terrorist attacks, is it not a bit like telling the fox how to get into and out of the hen house?

In March 2004, CAIR started a law suit against Andrew Whitehead who made claims that CAIR terrorist ties. These key statements that ones CAIR no longer deems legally improper, as they have decided not to contest them in court.

•[CAIR is an] organization founded by Hamas supporters….
•CAIR was started by Hamas members….
•CAIR … was founded by Islamic terrorists.

CAIR's leadership must have stretched its collective memory back to 1994 and recalled (along with counterterrorism expert Matthew Epstein) that Omar Ahmad and Nihad Awad, former officials of the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP), founded the organization, while IAP's president, Rafeeq Jabar, was (according to Steve Emerson) one of CAIR's founding directors.

Former FBI counterterrorism chief Oliver "Buck" Revell has described the IAP as "a front organization for Hamas." This linkage between the IAP and Hamas was decisively established in 2004, when a federal judge in Chicago found it partially liable for $156 million in damages for its role in aiding and abetting Hamas in the murder of David Boim, a 17-year-old American citizen.

And, CAIR no doubt remembered that it had been caught by Joe Kaufman exploiting the 9/11 attacks to raise funds for two Hamas-linked fundraising organizations, the Holy Land Foundation (HLF) and the Global Relief Foundation.

•[CAIR] is partially funded by terrorists…

Terrorists themselves don't literally give out money, but organizations that fund terrorism also fund CAIR.

We then go on to look at terrorists in America

Terrorist Training Camps in the US
http://www.military.

35 Terror Training Camps Now Operating Inside U.S.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/381953/

Muslim Brotherhood’s Terror Training Camps Inside The USA.
http://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/01/30/southern-poverty-law-center-sic-muslim-brotherhoods-terror-training-camps-inside-the-usa/

Most U.S. Mosques Teach Violence
http://www.humanevents.com/2011/06/14/most-us-mosques-teach-violence/

Mega Mosque Plans Target America's Heartland
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/August/Mega-Mosque-Plans-Target-Americas-Heartland/

Dangerous Proliferation Of Mosques In The U.S.
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2012/August13/137a.html
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 5:18 am
John "Your list and post have a subtext, of course. You provide it as part of your Zionist campaing against Muslims". - people who cannot defend the truth then attack the provider or sources. This means that this is true and you cannot refute it.

"Just because the Secretary of State designates an organisation as "terrorist" does not make that organisation so. Several of them are respectable freedom-fighting groups and have put on the list simply for political expediency or completely unjustly." Respectable freedom fighters do not bomb, abuse, kill or physcially attack anyone. You are trying to justify the existence of a group that commits appalling atrocites and failing as there are no excuses.

 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 5:23 am
John, it must be wonderful to be able to refute my comments from many different independent sources by just the one. Wow! I'm glad that you told us all that Muslim rapists are lies, I am sure that the entire world press will be delighted to print such a rebuttal. Hang on, they haven't done so! Could it be that your one source is actually pro-Muslim and is trying to deny the truth? What a shock, what an impossibility!
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 5:33 am
By the way, Gillian. You get your material from hate sites where it is endlessly regurgitated. I use respectable sources to deal with your nonsense.
 

Rob and Jay B. (121)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 6:06 am
Abdessalem D, you always make the same 'oh poor islam' whine but you never are able to counter the truth of the quotes we make straight from your own 'holy' books which are full of hate and killing of non-Muslims. that's the only 'hate site' we quote from. Why can't you offer any proofs of this loving, peaceful and tolerant religion? You only give excuses for why Mohammed murdered raped and robbed people, all carefully wrapped in Islamic myth.

There is no excuse for any of his debauchery and murder. No 'prophet' of any good god would ever act like that and no good god would ever condone the awful debauchery, rape, banditry (booty) and murder that your moon god Allah did. Are you denying that every word in the Qur'an is perfect and for all time? Yes you are when you make the excuse that verses were for specific moments. There is no historical or hadith proof for 'persecution' of Muslims like your propaganda claims. Read Bukhari. Mohammed murdered without provocation.

You always claim Islam is such a victim yet you have never ever offered any apology for the 270 million non-Muslims murdered in the violent spread of your 'faith' - 80 million alone in India ("The Age of Faith" by Will Durant).

You never offer any apology for the genocide happening right now against non-Muslims, particularly Christians from one end of Islamic occupied lands to the other - Nigeria, Egypt, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc etc etc. You believe what Allah said that it is a blessing for people to be killed rather than remain non-Muslims, or to be brought to Muslim heaven in chains. Sickening.

You have never apologized for the invasion and conquest of any Muslim occupied state or even of those who managed to eventually throw off Muslim brutality like our own Spain.

It is you and your dhimmi lackies here who quote from hate sites. We quote from your own 'holy' books. But we concur that they are 'hate sites' themselves, and therein lies our revulsion in them.

No Muslim country has freedom of religion, but Saudi Arabia is the perfect Muslim country with its laws being right out of Sharia's harsh and barbaric laws. Everything in Saudi A is right out of Islamic jurisprudence. If you deny that, you're denying Islam, but that is OK as long as you are doing so to 'gain advantage' over us low-life infidels, isn't it?

 

Tommy S. (11)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 6:14 am

Omar Ahmad
Co-Founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations
CAIR-SFBA Executive Committee Member
President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies.
Former Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP) Officer.
Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book
of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.

gives you that warm muzi feeling doesn't it
 

Alexa R. (330)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 6:25 am
John W: "Several of them are respectable freedom-fighting groups"

This is what this judge says about individuals within terrorist proups or to use your terminology "respectable freedom-fighting" groups:

Ruling by Judge William Young, US District Court.

Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his 'allegiance to


Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah,' defiantly stating, 'I think I will not apologize for my actions,' and told the court 'I am at war with your country.'





Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below:

Judge Young: 'Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.

On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General. On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutively (That's 80 years.)

On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years again, to be served consecutively to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you for each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 that's an aggregate fine of $2 million. The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.

The Court imposes upon you an $800 special assessment. The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.

This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence.

Now, let me explain this to you. We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is too much war talk here and I say that to everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court, we deal with individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals. As human beings, we reach out for justice.

You are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether the officers of government do it or your attorney does it, or if you think you are a soldier, you are not-----, you are a terrorist. And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not meet with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.

So war talk is way out of line in this court You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I've known warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal that is guilty of multiple attempted murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and the TV crews were, and he said: 'You're no big deal.'

You are no big deal.

What your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today?

I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing? And, I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you, but as I search this entire record, it comes as close to understanding as I know.

It seems to me you hate the one thing that to us is most precious. You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose. Here, in this society, the very wind carries freedom. It carries it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom, so that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely. It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf, have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you before other judges.

We Americans are all about freedom. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden; pay any price, to preserve our freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. The day after tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will long endure.

Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done. The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.

See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. And it always will.

Mr. Custody Officer. Stand him down.
 

Carola May (20)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 6:25 am
Lies, what a good name for you. You bluster and obfuscate to avoid the truth and your own bigotry against Christians, Tea Partyers, Republicans, Conservatives, etc etc etc. To you they are all evil and intolerant.

I oppose all ideologies of hate and intolerance, including any espoused by anyone in any group, including you, but Islam is the ugliest and most hateful there is. If you really cared about human/civil rights you would do the same. Even the Tea Party doesn't call for the killing of gay people or of those who leave Christianity or Conservatism but you hate them and defend Islam, the worst of all. Quite a difference to any rational person.

When's the last time there was a Buddhist, Hindu, Jain,. Christian or Jewish suicide bomber? Islam does teach hate and killing of non-Muslims to spread Islam. Those of us here who have studied Islam and read its scriptures have given you sufficient proof, but you are so dead set in your bigotry you refuse to see that. Your ignorance of the subject is really tiring. Go learn something about Islam before you defend it. You're worse than the people you condemn because you're condoning murder. Only Islam teaches to kill to promote it and defend it.

Duke University research reports during the ten years that followed 911 “Almost 200 Muslim-Americans have been involved in violent plots of terrorism over this decade, and more than 400 Muslim-Americans have been indicted or convicted for supporting terrorism.” See conclusion on page 8 of report (Feb 8, 2012)

http://sanford.duke.edu/centers/tcths/documents/Kurzman_Muslim-American_Terrorism_in_the_Decade_Since_9_11.pdf SEE ALSO:

SUNNI MUSLIMS COMMITED 70% OF ALL TERRORIST ACTS IN THE WORLD IN 2011:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/sunni-muslim-extremists-committed-70-terrorist-murders-2011 according to a report by the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) 8/3/12

The ethnic cleansing of non-Muslims is happening right now in every Muslim dominated land from Nigeria to Indonesia. Where is your outrage over this? There is no ethnic cleansing or genocide against Muslims going on in the advanced Western nations - quite the opposite. No other religion gets the special rights and kow towing to like Islam gets. Did you know there are 5 EU countries now that it is illegal to criticize Islam in? Only Islam. Do you support this too, in your blind bowing to the Islamist propaganda?

Jews are the biggest hate crime victims in the US and Europe by far (67% in the US) - not Muslims, like they'd have you believe. And many of the anti-Semitic hate crimes are committed by Muslims here in Europe, not to mention so many others like the killing of 'unclean' dogs and the murders of young women who are 'too westernised' (meaning who aren't submissive to every male command). Just wait till the US has 3% - 5% Muslims. You'll see what we have to deal with with the hate and intolerance of Orthodox Muslims.

Europe has 54million Muslims compared to the US's meager 2.4million. You will be eating your words before long. Ever wonder why so many are streaming into the West now in such large numbers? You should.
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 6:52 am
The Moroccan Sahara's integration into the Motherland is not up for negotiation.
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 6:53 am
Sexual debauchery? Shagging guys is debauchery? Tell it to your fellow travellers Rob and Jay.
 

Vlasta M. (7)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 7:17 am
Islam ITSELF as promoted by Koran and Hadith is INCOMPATIBLE either with US Constitution or with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Islam MUST REFORM and not be whitewashed by CAIR, OIC and other Muslim organizations, helped by Barak Hussein Obama who extolled Koran and Islam, while dissing Bible. Read Koran and learn the history of jihad as commended by Mohamed to understand why Islam is NOT like other religions, since it's essence is jihad against "infidels" in addition to misogyny, pedophilia, polygamy and murder for Allahu Akbar. Allah is not Yahwe or Lord, but an absolute despot who does not love weak and downtrodden but POWER.

The 20,000 Muslim extrawaganza at DNC will be the end of the Democratic party as we know it in America. Barak Hussein Obama will take down with him and his Muslim Brotherhood Democratic party that had allowed Islamists to be so brazenly aggressive in USA.

This Muslim extravaganza at DNC will be a final wake up call to Americans regarding necessity to retire Barak Hussein Obama and his supporters in Democratic party which had been hijacked by the politically correct people who are blind as bats to the dangers of Islam on US shore.

This landslide in November will bring in Republicans everywhere and we will have to be extra vigilant that they do sell US to corporatism and oil, as Democrats had sold US to Islam and oil. We MUST GO GREEN and stop financing Islamism with oil money from Saudi Arabia and Iran.

UN also must be held responsible for all the lies allowed to be spouted against US and Israel by the Muslim countries, in which routine violations of human rights are promoted by their medieval evil sharia. We are DONE with BO and white washing Islam in US and will get this scourge out of our shores. Islam MUST REFORM or has no place in any country that respects freedom and human rights of individuals.
 

Carola May (20)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:04 am
Hey John, the Palestinian occupied Israel territory belongs to Israel, the 'Motherland' - it's not up for discussion either. Hypocrite

Here's an article just out about your liberal, tolerant Islamic Morocco:

Young Moroccan Man Jailed for eating in public during Ramadan (instead of sneaking food in private like most), breaking the law against this - some freedom, right? Yes, that really is a progressive, liberal Islamist country.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/moroccan-jailed-for-breaking-ramadan-fast-in-public/story-e6frf7k6-1226460344014
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:14 am
pillow, prove that the general sites I used are hate sites ie put up or shut up. Remeber that I used several sources and deliberately avoided the ones that you always claim are hate sites. However, your idea of hate sites seem to be one that tells about the atrocities committed by Muslims rather than a true hate site. Cannot disprove, deride. Pathetic.

You claim to be an atheist living in Morocco, yet now you are claiming that you live in the UK that suggests that you are ashamed of where you live. If you were a genuine atheist, you would not be supporting Islam.

 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:23 am
The difference is, Carola, that Palestine was never a part of the Zionist Entity and the illegal and undesirable immigrants to Palestine did not share a culture and history with the Palestinians, the Jews, Christians and Muslims already living there and most of whom were ethnically cleansed.
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:26 am
Rape in Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o1FPkWWV2s&feature=player_embedded

The Koran tells Muslim men that they can take non-muslim women as "war booty". Jihadist want war because they want sex-slaves here on Earth and in Heaven.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.024

From the earliest years of Islam to the present day, Islamists trade in non-muslim slaves for sex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
http://www.answering-islam.org/ReachOut/slavetrade.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/mar/11/highereducation.books

From the streets of European cities, where protesting muslims call for war to take women as "war booty", to the sharia courts of Nigeria, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Shari law makes convicting a man for rape impossible, because of the need for 4 male witnesses and the "crimes" the woman has committed by being raped.

This leads to massive under-reporting of rape in these countries. Muslims will point to the numbers of rapes in the USA, where rape within marriage is a crime, as is wife beating.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.034

This is only an attempt to distract from their corrupt and misogynistic sharia laws and societies.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#00...
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/04/26/pakistani-woman-jailed-for-being-rap...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/world/middleeast/16saudi.html?ref=world
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7098480.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/7015896.stm
 

Rob and Jay B. (121)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:29 am
Thanks for that article, Carola M, we've posted it on C2NN. Let's see John D/W say this is from a 'hate site' and deny it like he denies every other news item showing the hate and intolerance of Islam. Remember he is the one who praises the Islamic Dictatorship of brutality, hate and violence in Iran. He never cares a bit about the victims - ever. He multiplies their suffering under Islam by denying it even happens. He never sees an Islamic hate act or speech that he doesn't praise or claim is from a 'hate site', but he is the only one who uses 'hate sites' in his obsessive hatred of Jews and Israel.

Gillian, don't lose any sleep over John D's drivel. You know he's always been totally blind to anything that isn't on an Islamic or Palestani hate site.

You are perfectly correct with him and the other Islamists that appear on here - "Cannot disprove, deride". Deny, Deny, Deny, then play the victim card.
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:41 am
Palestine is merely a red herring because you are unable to contradict what we are saying and has nothing to do with the article. If you want to improve their lot, make Jordan hand the land back that the Palestinians are supposed to be living on as well as the land that Syria stole. You can also remind the Muslim controlled countries that their abuses of the people known as the Palestinians is against the UN requirements.
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:53 am
Oh dear, Gillian. Wrong again. I didn't bring Palestine up. Your fellow hater Carola did:--

Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:04 am

Hey John, the Palestinian occupied Israel territory belongs to Israel, the 'Motherland'
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 10:03 am
Looks like your comment

The difference is, Carola, that Palestine was never a part of the Zionist Entity and the illegal and undesirable immigrants to Palestine did not share a culture and history with the Palestinians, the Jews, Christians and Muslims already living there and most of whom were ethnically cleansed.

It's still drivel.
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 10:04 am
Why haven't you commented on this yet?

Morocco: Young Man Jailed for Eating in Public During Ramadan, Violating the Law
http://www.care2.com/news/member/296771588/3442505
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 1:13 pm
Pillow, it had your name.

So, the atheist who supports Islam to the extent that an extremist would and is too embarassed to say that he lives in Morocco cannot defend the behaviour of what happens there.
 

. (7)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 3:42 pm
Poor, poor John Pillow, the epitome of all that is Creepy

(hint: and it's not anywhere close to Gillian, no pillow, you are pretty much the creepiest thing that creeps upon the cyberworld of Care2)

'Twas said so well....

"So, the atheist who supports Islam to the extent than an extremist would and is too embarrassed to say that he lives in Morocco cannnot defend the behaviour of what happens there.

People like Pillow how have no life, nor brain, but quite an enterprising "organ", if you know what I mean, should not tell others to do what they themselves cannot.
 

Diane O. (164)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 3:51 pm
John, my comment that 82% of Americans identify as Christians is not a complicated comment. This information is taken from census information. You may not like it but it's a fact. Americans, the majority of Americans are Christians. You can take that information and process it anyway you'd like but you can't change the data.
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 3:55 pm
Diane O

Yes, 80% or whatever of Americans might identify as Christian, but that does not make the USI a "Christian" country.
 

Diane O. (164)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 4:15 pm
John, I'm worried about your lack of math skills. When 82% of a country identifies as Christians, I would say we are a Christian nation. If 82% of Americans identified as atheists in America then we would be a country who doesn't believe in God. It's simple math.
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 4:31 pm
@ Lies you tell your country

You really are clutching at straws here. Scrambling to go anywhere but answer my questions, right?

This whole section here is utterly pathetic. Let me try to explain this to you, though I can’t believe I actually have to.

Quoting your post:

"I did not claim in my previous post that Nigeria was a muslim majority country." Actually, yes you did.

This is what you posted "But take a look at Nigeria, Thailand, Sudan, the ethnic cleansing in MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe."

You listed three countries and within the same sentence wrote "the ethnic cleansing in MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe." This would lead any reasonable reader to infer that the countries, Nigeria, Thailand an Sudan were part of the the "MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe".”

End of Quote.

According to your own logic, this shows that you are NOT a “reasonable reader”, whatever that means. I guess what you mean is, any reader with reasonable intelligence or understanding of English. Clearly that excludes you.

This:

“Nigeria, Thailand, Sudan, the ethnic cleansing in MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe."

...is essentially a list. There are three countries listed, then I went on to mention a fourth item in addition to the three countries mentioned. If you’d thought I was listing three muslim majority countries, I would have thought that the first thing to jump out would be that Thailand is CLEARLY NOT a muslim majority country. I did not infer that any of these three were included in the last category. I meant that you should look at what is happening in these countries, AND ALSO consider the ethnic cleansing in muslim majority countries.

Quoting you again:

“It seems that you want to play games of semantics rather than actually defend what you are claiming with hard statistical proof. Your next complaint is that you feel that I am referring to Christianity as a country.

This is what I wrote:

BTW, Nigeria is not a Muslim majority country. Christianity is.

I used the exact terminology you used except for using the term Muslim with Islam. I then alluded to Christianity which refers back to the initial statement "majority country" meaning that Christianity is prevalent in Nigeria. Just to make sure you understand, your claim which you deny having posted was demonstrated to be erroneous.”

End of quote.

What kind of nonsense is that? If you’d said, "Nigeria is not a muslim majority country, Egypt is" this would make sense. In that context, when you say Nigeria is not a muslim majority country, then something else is, then that something else should be a country. Your sentence should have read something like “Nigeria is not a muslim majority country. It is a christian majority country”

Next:

“Apologist for Islam? Really Mabolsa. I can see you love those buzz words.”

Buzz words????? You dare to say that to me????!!!! How about islamophobia????!!! If that’s not a buzz word, then Christianity is a muslim majority country!!

“ Since I do not practice Islam, nor was raised in the Muslim faith and promote no religion, calling me an apologist is just more typical nonsense by people who cannot even provide one (1) credible, cited source.”

An apologist for islam, refers to someone from outside the religion. Otherwise you’d just be a muslim. As dumb as you are now showing yourself to be, you might as well be.

And what is this????

“...is just more typical nonsense by people who cannot even provide one (1) credible, cited source.”

What kind of crap is that?

“ In addition, I have not denied EVER that terrorism by radicalized Islamists exists.”

I didn’t say you didn’t. I HAVE pointed out that your head is in the sand as far as islam is concerned. As I have pointed out three times already, this is now number four, these statistics are useless. What IS relevant here is what islam teaches muslims, and what muslims are engaged in wordwide. Your statistics only refer to part of the tactics; playing at being good citizens until the time is right. I have no doubt whatsoever that many muslims are not themselves, knowing, willing players in this plan, and I also have no doubt that many of them would not want to end up living in an islamic theocracy, but they are playing their part whether they want to or not. You are being a fool by ignoring or even denying the clear fact that, around the planet, day after day, muslims commit atrocities and do so as part of a campaign to establish Islamic states and sharia law everywhere.

“Youtube is not in any WAY, SHAPE or FORM a credible source of anything. It is user driven, there is no accountability nor editorial oversight.”

First of all, did you actually look at the video?

“What I am disputing is how relevant this is in the great scheme of things.”

You can’t work that out for yourself? You have to ask about that??? WOW!! That is a dumb statement. It is relevant in the grand scheme because that actually IS the grand scheme as far as muslims are concerned. Their grand scheme is to ensure that islam destroys the west and dominates the world. They actually make that claim, about the US too. But I guess that’s too subtle for you to see.

“ I can also go onto youtube and find just as many videos of Christians doing some pretty horrible things.”

“Christians doing some pretty horrible things, huh? Is that the best you can do? Do you mean Christians doing some pretty horrible things like:

Beheading innocent people, often live on the internet or at least recorded and posted on the internet?
Like declaring that Christianity will dominate the world through violence?
Like blowing themselves up along with many innocent bystanders?
Like invading a primary school full of children and taking those children hostage?
Like spraying bullets around when those children try to escape?
Like a grown man chasing an 8yo girl into the corner of a classroom, grabbing her by the hair and shooting her in the head at point blank range?
Like using their own children as human shields?
Like flying planes into buildings?
Like dancing in the streets when they hear that a country they don’t like has been attacked and 3000 people have been killed?
Like burning mosques and Synagogues with people inside?
Like rioting and slaying innocent people because someone burnt some pages from the bible?
Like raping non Christian women for violating Christian codes of dress?

I could go on and on and on, but I think even you should get the point.

I have no time for Christianity, or any other religion, and would stand up in the same way against Christianity if they were trying to do the same thing. Christians may well do some pretty horrible things, but they are few and far between and NEVER of the same degree of depravity of muslim atrocities. Unlike muslims, from whom we can find examples of REALLY ‘horrible things’ EVERY day. Christianity is in no way innocent, but it is way behind islam when it comes to oppression and atrocities. In any case, it makes no difference what christians do. What we are discussing is what muslims are doing. Whatever 'horrible things' christians do cannot absolve muslims of their crimes against humanity. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Face the truth. The world is gripped in a battle, not of civilizations, because islamic countries or culture can never be considered to be civilized, but a battle of survival of decency in the face of a brutal political ideology hell bent on the destruction of everything everywhere in order that it may dominate.

“If actually believe that youtube reeks of credibility and belongs in fundamental academic conversation (which is what I am trying to participate in, but you seem to be failing miserably in that regard), then there is nothing really to discuss.”

More BS. What I posted was simply a link to a video, demonstrating what is going on in the UK and elsewhere. You, having no real argument, are trying to twist things in your favour by using your fall back ‘statistics’ stance. The videos just show real life. It shows what is really going on and what the real muslim agenda is. It also shows, as I’ve been saying, that your statistics are a waste of time. In time, you will see the same things happening in the US. Do you really believe that the muslims in the US are somehow ‘different’ to muslims elsewhere? How naive.

“You demand answers from me, yet haven't addressed, refuted or even cast a shadow on any of the material I provided.”

Wow! You are STILL on this. I guess this is because you have nothing else. Once more, I have stated SO many times that I am NOT disputing your stats, I am just calling them irrelevant because they refer to a stage in the islamification of the US which requires muslims to be ‘dormant’. As I said, as has happened in EVERY other country they have invaded, when the numbers are sufficient, things will change. What is it about you that leads you to believe the situation in the US is somehow different to the situation EVERYWHERE else?

“You want to know why I called your statement "inherently racist"? To my knowledge, I looked through the whole threat...”

surely you mean thread

“...and didn't see any instance of racism levelled towards you. Please be specific. I could have missed it and when you point it out, I will have no problem addressing it.”

Which statement are you referring to? Anyway, here is your proof...

“Question - Why does Tommy continue to spout off bigotry and racism based on nothing but hate websites and will not acknowledge statistics that don't bear out his ideology?"

You referred to Tommy’s posts. I never claimed that it was directed specifically to me, but there it is. Tommy was “spouting racism”, when he was actually listing Islamic atrocities AND quotes from the Koran and hadith. I actually already posted this quote to you, but you ignored it then. So, as you have promised, please explain why it is racist to oppose islam. Also, I think you should explain this ‘hate sites’ thing.

I’m looking forward to this BTW!

"Now, you have played around and wasted time pretending that I’m not refuting your data, when I have stated at least three times now that I never did refute your data. "

“How do you not understand the basic fundamentals of arguing a point?”

First of all, I think that should be “Why”, not “How” Secondly, I stated many times that I was not disputing your stats, but that I considered them to be irrelevant. How is this me misunderstanding how to argue a point? This was me MAKING my point! I have been telling you that I do not dispute your stats, and you have consistently demanded that I do. If that is not ‘misunderstanding how to argue a point, I don’t know what is. I made my position clear. I agreed with you, but you demanded that I should disagree with you. And you accuse me of being on the Kool-Aid?

How stupid can one person be??!!!
 

John W. (5)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 4:36 pm
It's nothing to do with maths. It's not a "Christian country" it's a country where the majority of people are Christians. If it were the United Christian States, then yes, but it's not.
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 5:34 pm
@ John W

Does that 'W' stand for something that rhymes with banker?

No one here would suggest that "Shagging guys", as you so eloquently put it, is "debauchery" but I think I'm right in saying that you were posting videos on some site you ran, of your sister 'doing hardcore stuff' on her webcam? I think that might be classed as sexual debauchery. What about "chasing the bug"? That's pretty depraved too. It's clear to see why you would jump to the defence of islam. Your standards are pretty much on a par with those guys

So, you're an atheist, yet you defend islam? I am an atheist myself, and I have to say that any atheists I know, tend to have pretty decent moral standards. They try, sometimes mistakenly in my opinion, to afford everyone the same level of respect. This is of course how it should be, unless there is some genuine reason not to, as in the case of islam. Many atheists are not fully aware of islam, because they tend to come from christian backgrounds and or communities, so they tend to concentrate on studying the bible and therefore their understanding of islam is generally quite poor. You though, seem to do a lot of colluding with muslims, therefore you should be aware of how vile and evil it is.

Atheists are usually, being logical in their thinking and open minded in their approach to life, open to new information and the possibility of changing their opinion when new evidence comes to their attention. You, however, seem to be blinded by hatred of anyone who dares to criticise islam and you have amassed a huge amount of BS to post in defence of the indefensible. It's like you have unlimited access to a sewer somewhere and can dredge up any amount of shit you feel necessary to use as an argument... oh... What am I saying? Of course you do.... your mind! Now there's a sewer!
 

Stan B. (122)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 5:34 pm
John W. AKA John D. Your talmudic quotes are bogus, your source is an anti-Semitic web-site and you are about as fake as they come.
I don't know how you managed to crawl back under Care 2's radar but you aren't worth a second of anybody's time.
 

. (7)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 6:41 pm
Poor, poor John Pillow, needs to crawl back into the sewer.

A liar with a loose organ, an anti-Semitic racist, a fake.
 

Beth S. (334)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 8:20 pm
It never fails to boggle the mind when our wonderful PC (Pretty Confused) pro-Islam defenders who complain about Republicans and the harm their Christian religion would do to them, should they be elected.

Well listen to this "moderate" Muslim our pro-Muslims rush to defend on the Islamic view of how women should be treated (and this is only one small part of the rather large amount of misogyny in Islam -- and that's just towards their own women. You should see what Islam prescribes for non-Muslim women)

"ISLAM INSTRUCTS MAN TO BEAT HIS WIFE SO SHE MENDS HER WAYS & TREATS HIM WITH RESPECT"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3RCrAqAmd0
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 9:24 pm
"Question - Why does Tommy continue to spout off bigotry and racism based on nothing but hate websites and will not acknowledge statistics that don't bear out his ideology?"

Is your name Tommy?

A list usually consists of items with commonalities, not divergence. Thus as you put the three countries along with "MANY Islamic majority countries across the globe" and did not show anything to indicate that they differed, one (the reasonable reader) would assume that they were from the same list. You only separated the three countries and phrase "MANY Islamic majority countries" with a comma and did not use a logical disjunction, such as "or" to differ the first three countries from your final phrase.

"BTW, Nigeria is not a Muslim majority country. Christianity is. "

Since both Muslim and Christianity are religions, naturally, Muslim is what is being refuted, not the country "Nigeria".

When I am resorting to arguing sentence structure, then I have certainly had enough. When you want to have a serious discussion, like an adult, based upon facts and credible cited sources, let me know. It is absolutely ridiculous that rather than provide evidence for your argument, you chose to go down this pathetic path. You certainly understood exactly what I meant and to argue this is what I mean by playing games of semantics.
 

monica r. (41)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 9:31 pm
Lies, lies, and more lies,

"you are completely unaware and really don't seem to care about terrorism by Christian groups, Jewish groups, Eco-groups, Animal Rights Groups, etc."

The hell I don't. You don't know me or what activism I do. If this article was about any of those groups, I'd be posting about them, and have on numerous occasions.

I'm not the cheerleader for the FBI here, you are. And my reference to a death fatwa was no threat. I'm not a muslim, I don't obey fatwas. But given that repeating what imams teach can get you jailed for hate speech in the EU, and talking about drawing Mo can get you a death fatwa, and the slightest offense is reacted to with riots and beheadings across the globe, I was trying to point out that saying such things might not be received well by certain of our muslim brethren. Feel free to take the risk, as you wish. I don't even kill bugs if I can help it, so I'm not about to do anyone harm at all. I spend my days pretty close with a lot of violence and I hate it. I have no use for violence myself.

I use three MUSLIM translations of the quran, and my copy of 'Umdat al-Salik has the approval of Al Azhar and IIIT. I wouldn't know where to find an incorrect translation of the quran. Obviously you do know where. That proves a lot about you and says nothing about me. Just cause YOU are so familiar with the kufr version of the quran doesn't mean I am. You project a lot, don't you?
 

monica r. (41)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 9:40 pm
Mabolsa,

I see where Lies' logic totally fails.

He has forgotten that muslims are real people and not statistics. Dealing with stats is easy, you can make them say what you want them to say. Dealing with people with minds, lives, personal experiences, etc that shape their outlook and agendas is a lot harder.

Putting stats over the reality of actual living individuals is a coward's tactic.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Wednesday August 29, 2012, 9:40 pm
Hi everyone,

First of all, John tries to lie, but he's too stupid to pull it off. I recently commented to a couple of guys selling newspapers about just how little fact-checking people do, but John manages, even here, to lie so badly that nobody believes him. For example, quick word-searches on this thread for "Motherland" or "Palestine" on this thread demonstrate that his harping on about who raised what issue is a pile of whatever fills the space between his ears.

Now, on to the article itself:

It is not surprising at all that Democrats would recognize a Jumah as a formal DNC event. They lost Catholics when they insisted on including birth-control in health-care plans for which the Catholic Church would pay, especially after having promised they would not do so, so a Catholic service would do them little good except point that out again. They lost Protestants because, well, the most organized Protestant churches tend to be right-wing. Support among Jews for Democrats is slipping after Obama's apparent Middle-East inaction and failures (and while I have not seen confirmation, I have heard that this is a bigger deal than it sounds as Jews, according to one unconfirmed report, tend to be far more generous with political donations than average Americans and actually play a major role in funding the Democrat Party). He couldn't even risk getting turned down by Baptists after his declared stance on homosexual marriage. Still, a lot of Americans value religion and going completely non-religious with the convention would not exactly work when trying to swing to the center, so Islam seemed to be the way to go.

Now, regarding the religious leaders in question:

Siraj Wahhaj is a very interesting person:
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200503/the.imam.of.bedford-stuyvesant.htm (Note that this is from a newsletter by a state-owned Saudi company)
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/item_fz9VZgb1doDTBH3ROWzYdJ#ixzz24sinN8iZ

He says that he found a "clash" between his faith and American life, and at the same time did something great for his community. This strongly supports Front Page's quote, where he said he was absolutely morally disgusted with American culture. While he also says he has backed away from his troubling declarations of his youth and he led his congregation to help clean up his neighbourhood, it is clear that his moral standards are incompatible with those of regular American culture. Essentially, his code of ethics is incompatible with American standards while not being purely evil, but one need not even be evil at all to be very dangerous. I should probably point out here that incompatible ethics almost never mean "higher" moral standards. One person's freedom always ends where that of another begins, so changing where the lines are drawn does not mean greater freedom, nor greater restriction. The cleaning of his neighbourhood came at the price of having it be accepted that the congregation of a religious group play vigilante to keep out the drug-dealers. This raises the troubling prospect that, if they are willing to go out and enforce secular law, they may be willing to do the same with religious law. Even if he would not order it, the precedent is set.

Back to the point, I think Democrats, and Republicans too to a great degree, are blind to the fact that someone who is not totally evil may be very dangerous. They equate good with harmless and evil dangerous, and see everyone as a "good guy" or "bad guy" in all respects. His achievement with his neighbourhood has led, apparently, to an association with the Democrat Party despite the multiple highly disturbing aspects which led to his inclusion as one of 172 unindicted alleged co-conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Jibril Hough works for a mosque owned by NAIT, an organization listed here:
http://www.wnd.com/files/NAIT-DOJ-UCC.pdf (The file is taken from WND, but is a court-document)
as a member of the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood, though I should point out that it also lists Interpol as part of Hamas' financing mechanism (not a claim I quite dispute, but it should be noted that assistance to Hamas is, at most, a secondary aspect of Interpol).

His personal politics are displayed in this interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUM1J2S0cTw
The most telling line is "Nobody hates us because we're free. They hate us sometimes because bombs fell on their neighbourhood or policies have been divisive and killed people they know ...". He assumes that no cultural difference could possibly lead others to believe U.S. culture to be morally evil and an enemy to be destroyed. This assumption that, barring some external instigation, everyone would be friendly is the hallmark of Western liberal politics. Jibril Hough guy is a liberal. Beyond liberalism in general, here he is going beyond Democrat party-line almost to match John D. (W now?) with his level of extremity with his claim of genocide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p63W3IkXdkg

At the same time, despite his non-recognition of violence as an unfortunate necessity to defeat violent enemies, he, apparently unlike Wahhaj who gave character-witness in support of the Blind Sheik, is not completely blinded by loyalty to fellow Muslims: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV5ArWqgMYo
Still, perhaps he should have alerted authorities in this case.

In short, there are good indications that Wahhaj is bad news, though I don't know exactly how bad, or in what way, and the Hough is only as bad news as the next badly deluded liberal, nothing really special. (I don't mean to say that all liberals are so badly deluded, just some major factions among them.)
 

monica r. (41)
Thursday August 30, 2012, 5:19 am
Hey Stephen,

That is an interesting explanation. I know Cardinal Dolan was doing the invocation at the RNC (just a prayer, not an all-day Catholicism-fest), but he DID let the Dems know he was available/willing to do the same for them. They passed on the offer.

Have you considered Obama is throwing a major bone to muslims because they will like his gay rights stance even less than Baptists like it. Heck, the muslim take on gays is closer to Westboro than to actual Baptists. Since Obama's reversed himself on the issue, I'm not sure whether to believe him, but a lot of gays will vote for him while ignoring Obama/Democrats courting the religion of "execute gays."

Instead, well, we are anticipating 20,000 of them at the DNC. 20,000 of who? There are 5,556 voting delegates and 15,000 party leaders and credentialed media going to the DNC (.20,000 or so going to the DNC officially). And 20,000 muslims going to jumah-fest.

Now isn't that interesting?

Beth called it the Dhimmicratic Party, which certainly seems to fit.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday August 30, 2012, 3:13 pm
"This strongly supports Front Page's quote, where he said he was absolutely morally disgusted with American culture"

Where does any of the article support what FrontPageMagazine says?

I suggest that anyone want to use this article, they need to read it. The section Stephen below is what Stephen is claiming supports his FrontPageMagazine claim:


“It came very natural to me,” he says. “I respect myself, I love myself, but not to the detriment of others. I can respect and love other people. Islam crystallized that.” In 1978, Wahhaj traveled to Naperville, Illinois for six weeks of Saudi-sponsored religious training, and he was among five students chosen to receive advanced training in Makkah.

There, he spent four months at Um al-Qura University with teachers and students from all over the globe. “I felt so pure,” he recalls. “I didn’t watch any tv. It was just pure spiritual.” Waking each morning before dawn, he was the first student at the mosque each day, and he often stayed after class with his teachers. “I used to run around the track and say to myself, ‘Okay, when I get back to America I’m going to help the Muslims there. I’m going to start training the people, teaching them what I learned.’ It was like a boxer preparing for a match.”

But when he landed back in New York, he says, the clash between his faith and American life was jarring and discouraging, and he recalls feeling ill with the shock. He nevertheless started a mosque in 1981 in a friend’s Brooklyn apartment, where they moved the furniture aside to accommodate a couple dozen worshipers. Soon after, the congregation bought an abandoned clothing store at a city auction for $29,000. The address was 1266 Bedford Avenue. After kicking out the drug addicts, Wahhaj and his congregants set the space up as a mosque. Today, that mosque is Masjid at-Taqwa.


Also in the article, it noted, "On a Wednesday in August, he’s preparing a lecture for the Islamic Society of North America’s conference; it’s titled “American Muslims: Loving My Country, Living Islam.”

It’s not contradictory for me as an American to be a Muslim. Nor is it for an American to be a Christian or a Jew or a Sikh or a Hindu or even an atheist, for that matter. That’s what makes America what it is.”

No where in this article does Wahhaj state that he is disgusted with American culture. Much of his article is about assisting the NYPD on "clean-up-the-neighborhood campaign". He also discusses his original association with the Nation of Islam and how, although he credits the Nation of Islam for giving him “black pride,” he now says that the pride went too far when it spilled over into denigration of others. “In those few years with the Nation of Islam, I was other than myself,” he concedes. But in the late 1970’s, as Wallace D. Muhammad led many Nation of Islam followers back toward orthodox Islam, Wahhaj was among them. "

As for your posting of an article from nypost.com. "The Post is known for its conservative editorial policy and sensationalist headlines."

"According to a survey conducted by Pace University in 2004, the Post was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credible to 39% credible)"

(Wiki - hey it's got to be better than what you're citing).

From Associated Press

"After months of berating the Associated Press over its investigation of the New York Police Department's Muslim surveillance program, the New York Post is suddenly tongue-tied. Following an article by the Associated Press which found that the six-year NYPD program has not yielded a single terrorism investigation, the paper hasn't published a single piece of coverage of the AP story."

It's not surprising that the NY Post is not covering the issue, given that it goes against the pro-surveillance narrative the paper has been trying to push for over a year. For example, in an editorial on November 22, 2011, the NY Post declared, "New Yorkers should be thankful that its police department has been collecting information and conducting surveillance of Muslim communities." After all, they noted on December 26, "there is very good reason why anti-terror investigations often lead to the Muslim-American community." The Post's editorial board penned pieces defending the program on February 13, March 14, March 22, March 30, and April 17.

In June, a Post editorial baselessly alleged that the Muslim surveillance program "led to the arrests of several would-be terrorists." In July, the editorial board got more specific, claiming that, "the NYPD's Intel Unit has had a sterling record since it was established in the wake of 9/11, helping disrupt 14 terrorist plots against the city in the last decade."

UPDATE: The New York Post editorial board finally weighed in on August 26, largely utilizing semantic arguments against the Associated Press and failing entirely to rebut Galati's admissions that the surveillance program is ineffective. Many Post readers, however, were left with only one side of the story. As of August 28, a full week after the story broke, the paper's straight news sections had still not reported on Galati's testimony.

You can read the whole article at http://mediamatters.org/tags/new-york-post. Of course you will claim the mediamatters is not a credible source, but you can certainly verify what they are claiming. This is not considered a credible source, but is seen as a sensationalistic paper promoting conservative dogma.

Then the final source you provide is wnd.com which leads one to a court document. I gather that even you seem to want to distance yourself from the craziness of WND. The claim seems to be that "Jibril Hough" is un unindicted co-conspirator even though he isn't listed as a "unindicted co-conspirator" on a list provided in this "court document". The purpose of this document seems to be to list unindicted co-consiprators. I also want to note that in the United States operates with the presumption of innocence, are we now changing this?

I have never stated that terrorism doesn't affect Muslim groups at all. I am stating though that the evidence provided with even bolstered statistics from the FBI shows that there is much to be concerned about in regard to other groups who also participate in acts of terror. In fact, claims made specifically by the ultraconservative mainly influenced by the religious right are in contradiction to what the evidence shows.
 

Berny p. (23)
Thursday August 30, 2012, 3:45 pm


"According to the FBI some 80% of mosques preach sedition and look for volunteers to become home grown terrorists. "

SO....WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT THIS?????
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Thursday August 30, 2012, 6:17 pm
Hi John ,

It's always a pleasure to see your rants. They're so funny.

First mention of Palestinians here: John W., Friday August 24, 2012, 5:11 am:
Romney in Israel: Palestinian Culture Is Inferior

First mention of Motherland here: John W., Wednesday August 29, 2012, 6:52 am
The Moroccan Sahara's integration into the Motherland is not up for negotiation

The "Motherland" issue is actually far more relevant. It demonstrates that you actually have no problem whatsoever with claims of land by conquest. Carola's response was clearly to call out your hypocrisy, not to bring Palestinians into the issue.

Hi Monica :)
The crazies will vote Obama because they see him as weaker on foreign policy and their loyalty is not to the U.S., and even many more moderate ones will support him because they see him as more peaceful and they feel loyalty to those who are caught in the middle of the wars. Other religious ones will vote Republican for the same reasons as the Christian Right does. However, a lot of Muslims in the U.S. are secular. They still identify themselves as Muslims, but may have no problem with homosexuals. These are the only Muslims whose votes are really in play. This is, like you said, a sop to them, but I think it is also a sop to every religious group, maintaining some recognition of religion and the convention.

The last time BIMA called on of these events, it over-predicted attendance by about a factor of 10. There may be a couple thousand showing up, if that. However, this number need not necessarily come from the attendants of the convention in general. Many could show up just for this event and then go home.

Hi Margaret, (now apparently going by "." for some reason)

The phrase that supports Frontpage's claim was this one:
"But when he landed back in New York, he says, the clash between his faith and American life was jarring and discouraging, and he recalls feeling ill with the shock". It supports Frontpage's statement that he said "You know what this country is? It’s a garbage can. It’s filthy, filthy, and sick. This country is taking our children. We’re trying to raise them up righteous. And you with your sick, low morals grabbing them, trying to teach a man how to be respectful towards that….Why you wanna try now to destroy us? Because we’re against that sickness of this society, that’s why..” (This is the full quote from which a part was taken for use in the redstate.com article, and, given its bias, I did not take Frontpage's word for it until seeing a supporting statement from the Saudi source, which if anything would be biased not to support Frontpage).

I actually didn't trust the New York Post alone. I quoted it because its article because it was the first one I found. Here is the relevant point in the article coming from the Washington Times:
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/political-potpourri/2012/aug/23/storm-headed-charlotte-thanks-jumah-dnc/
Apparently the New York Post is credible enough for them. Also, I would not trust any credibility-surveys like that from 2004. The U.S. was already polarized and people tend to be biased to find sources with which they politically disagree to be non-credible, and New York is a heavily liberal state, which would leave results from such a survey biased against the Post.

I am not calling Jibril Hough an inindicted co-conspirator. However, he works for an organization which is listed as part of the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood. The purpose of the list is to note people and groups which appear to be associated with Hamas. Personally, Hough seems to be a good man, troubling and of multiple outright dangerous political factions, but morally good nonetheless. The other one, however, apparently sets loyalty to fellow Muslims above any reasonable ethics, as demonstrated in his offer of character-witness for the Blind Sheik.
 

Beth S. (334)
Friday August 31, 2012, 7:21 am
Thanks, Stephen, for the information.

I notice that it's the true idiots who resort to calling others so.

Here's some additional information:

"Here's what the Washington Times reports about Imam Siraj Wahhaj.

At a solidarity speech in 1995, Wahhaj informed the world that it was his “duty and our duty as Muslims to replace the U.S. Constitution with the Quran.”

On another occasion Wahhaj commented, “if only Muslims were clever politically, they could take over the United States and replace its constitutional government with a caliphate.”

At another time he warned the United States that it is doomed to fall unless it “accepts the Islamic agenda.”
And finally, this: “You know what this country (USA) is? It’s a garbage can. It’s filthy.”

Moderate? You be the judge. And his appearance in Charlotte is endorsed by the DNC.

What is so disheartening about the so-called “Jumah at the DNC” is that it has thus far gone unnoticed or ignored by the mainstream press.

Read more that the Washingtontimes.com "

 

Beth S. (334)
Friday August 31, 2012, 7:27 am
By the way, the "Jumma at the DNC" has been removed from the DNC website.

http://charlottein2012.com/events/jumah_at_the_2012_dnc

Not sure if it means it's just not being advertised on the DNC calendar or if it's actually now been zapped.
 

Vlasta M. (7)
Friday August 31, 2012, 8:05 am
Until Pastor Jones threatened to burn Koran, I also was a politically correct liberal, who voted fro Obama in 2008, and who thought that all religions are the same, with some good stuff and some very irrational stuff. When I heard the interview with Pastor Jones on BBC, who made a claim that Koran is a vile hate-filled book, I decided to read a Koran given to me some 25 years ago by a Muslim colleague at work. This a leather bound copy in Arabic with English translations and commentaries, printed in Pakistan.

I read Koran from cover to cover and was appalled at what I read. 60% of it is teaching hatred of Jews, Christians and recommends killing "infidels". Also, it promotes misogyny, pedophilia, dhimmitude, polygamy and murder for Allahu Akbar. Allah is all POWERFUL like an oriental despot and not like Yahweh or Lord who loves humans and animals and wants to be loved. Allah DEMANDS SUBMISSION, rather then preaching love. Mohamed, a role model for 1.4 billions Muslims around the world, was a pedophile, polygamist who married Aisha, one of his 12 wives when she was 6 and he was 51. He was also responsible for a murder of 900 Jews from Medina because they did not want to accept him as THEIR prophet. Compare this vile man with Moses or Jesus or Baha'ullah or Buddha! Mohamed would be in jail for life in any democratic society for rapes of a minor and multiple murders.

Islam MUST REFORM or has no place in any society that cherishes freedom and human rights! Political correctness has no place in any functional society but truth has to be confronted and problems solved, not swept under the rug as CAIR, OIC are whitewashing Islam with the help of Barak Hussein Obama, who extolls Islam and Koran while dissing Bible. HE alkso bowed to Saudi king whose subjects committed crimes of 9/11 while screaming Allahu Akbar (not Hail Mary, Our father, Shema Israel or OM)

Obama will be gone in November, and probably take down the drain Democratic party and his Muslim Brotherhood from the White house. About time for Americans to wake up and realize that Obama is as un-American as they come, with his Marxist/Islamic policies.
 

Diane O. (164)
Friday August 31, 2012, 8:12 am
Vlasta, I so admire people like you. You had a question and put the time into the research to be well informed.

Take a bow....you deserve a standing ovation IMO!
 

Ge M. (218)
Friday August 31, 2012, 9:48 am
Stephen, dotty is too ashamed of herself to either have an avatar of herself (like we want to see her) or put her name up.
 

Ge M. (218)
Friday August 31, 2012, 9:54 am
& the pillow blusters, raves, compalins about hate sites (not able to prove that they are) and whitters on about Morocco. Then he compalins when someone mentions it! Inconsistent isn't he? Well, this is a great hate site - not!

The Western Sahara: forgotten first source of the Arab Spring
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/apr/17/western-sahara-forgotten-first-source

The Arab Spring began in the Western Sahara. In late 2010, the indigenous Saharawi population of this territory demonstrated against the occupying Moroccan authorities. Their demonstrations were violently put down. Eleven Saharawis were killed.

But this is one part of the Arab Spring that western governments don't want to talk about. And their silence, and the UN's complicity in it, is why that repression continues, and a terrible injustice is perpetuated.

Western Sahara was invaded by Morocco in 1975. Its indigenous population was, in contemporary parlance, ethnically cleansed. Around 150,000 of those driven out remain in isolated refugee camps in the Algerian Sahara: in tents, in the middle of the desert (I have been there; it is grim). The Saharawis, fought back in a guerrilla war that lasted until a ceasefire in 1991. The centerpiece of that ceasefire, repeatedly endorsed by the UN and international community, was that there would be a referendum for the people of Western Sahara to decide the future of the territory, and in particular whether it would be a independent state.

That referendum has never taken place. Western Sahara remains Africa's last colony. Morocco successfully delayed and manipulated the UN organization of the referendum until it ground to a halt. The UN attempts to get "the parties" to agree on a way forward. There has been no progress: Morocco refuses even to discuss a referendum. For this obstruction, Morocco pays no price whatsoever.

There have been systematic human rights abuses by Moroccan forces in the occupied Western Sahara, documented by Amnesty International (pdf), Human Rights Watch (pdf) and the UN high commissioner for human rights (pdf). This last report, never published at Morocco's insistence, recommended in 2006 that there be a permanent human rights monitoring presence in the territory. Despite this clear recommendation, Morocco's allies at the UN – in particular, France – have successfully blocked its implementation.

Western governments have, in recent months, paraded their new-found support for human rights and democracy in the Middle East. France's President Sarkozy has pressed the flesh in Libya and Tunisia, reveling in his status as liberator of the downtrodden. But you won't see him in the Western Sahara, and he won't mention the plight of the Saharawi people when he shakes hands with Morocco's king, his ally, Mohamed VI.

This week, the whole imbroglio will be discussed again at the UN security council. It's important to observe the subtle but pernicious ways in which injustice is perpetuated at the UN.

For instance, it has been revealed in recent weeks that the UN allows its own reports on Western Sahara to be doctored by Morocco, its occupier. No one, from Ban Ki Moon downwards, lifts a finger to stop it. The UN released successive and different versions of the report, explicitly indicating Morocco's "editing", including its removal of references to the Moroccan flag flying over the UN mission headquarters (a figurative symbol of what is really going on) and any reference to the mission's original mandate to organize the referendum.

Recently, the UK and South Africa, to their credit, have led efforts to institute human rights monitoring, and try to push for resolution to this long-lasting dispute. France continues to block. Its obstruction is unreported; it is carried out in small rooms at the UN, where French diplomats softly declare that they will not permit human rights "language" in the resolution. Their press spokesman tries not to answer questions about it from the few journalists who take an interest ("where's the story?" they ask, "it's been going on for years").

Morocco has been a good ally of the US, including by receiving prisoners for torture under the program of "extraordinary rendition": one of them a British resident, whose genitals were cut with razors by Moroccan government torturers. Today, Morocco has been quick to put itself on the right side of the Arab Spring, by supporting Nato in Libya. The kingdom has bought substantial lobbying muscle in Washington, including the former US ambassador to Rabat.

Hillary Clinton walks an awkward path on this issue, to put it politely, although the US, as this month's president of the UN security council, could play a decisive role. She has made speeches applauding the bravery of women who fight for human rights around the world. But she never mentions Aminatou Haidar, an extraordinary 42 year-old, who has been tortured, held in solitary confinement for years, and has endured 32 days of hunger strike in support of freedom for the Saharawi people. If Hillary Clinton were to meet this extraordinary and heroic woman, who has won numerous human rights prizes, I wonder if she would maintain the laissez-faire US policy that allows continuing repression and the suffering of thousands of refugees waiting for justice in the Sahara desert.

The personal is political. It is ordinary human beings like Aminatou Haidar who suffer in the Western Sahara. And the policies that maintain their suffering are decided by women like Secretary Clinton and the diplomats whom I know to be, at heart, decent people. Why this decency is suspended in Western Sahara is a case study in how diplomacy remains in many ways a morally corrupt business. It does not have to be this way.

• Disclosure notice: Independent Diplomat, the non-profit diplomatic advisory group, which Carne Ross heads, advises the Polisario Front, the representatives of the Saharawi people
 

John W. (5)
Friday August 31, 2012, 9:59 am
I'm surpised you lefrt this part in Gillian.

"Disclosure notice: Independent Diplomat, the non-profit diplomatic advisory group, which Carne Ross heads, advises the Polisario Front, the representatives of the Saharawi people"
 

John W. (5)
Friday August 31, 2012, 10:03 am
As for the fraud Aminatou Haidar:--

http://www.moroccoboard.com/viewpoint/59-adil-naji/768-morocco-moroccan-western-sahara-aminatou-haidar

Ms. Aminatou Haidar, a Western Sahara separatist, who was accompanied by two Spanish reporters, was denied entry to Morocco for failure to properly fill its immigration forms, on November 13th.
Ms. Haidar listed “Sahrawi” as her nationality and “Western Sahara” as her country of origin even though she was traveling with a Moroccan passport. In fact, she rejected her citizenship voluntarily.
Mrs. Aminatou Haider has signed in the presence of her family members and of her own free will official documents renouncing her Moroccan nationality and citizenship. She has violated the law and claimed a nationality that is not recognized by both the U.N. and Morocco.
No surprise, then, as to why she was not allowed to enter the country.
Mrs. Aminatou Haider, who holds a Spanish residency permit, departed Morocco and returned to the Canary Islands, Spain, where she has refused Spain’s refugee status offer and went on a hunger strike.

Ms. Aminatou Haidar, who claims to be a human rights activist, is actually working closely with the Western Sahara Separatist group, Polisario, and their backer, Algeria’s Military Regime. In Fact, She is currently working closely with Algeria’s Ambassador in Washington, Mr. Abdallah Baali , who is coordinating and funding her “human rights” lobbying activities in the US.

The goal of Ms. Aminatou Haidar, the Polisario and the Military regime in Algiers is the same. They want to neutralize Morocco’s Autonomy plan, a plan, that is considered by most major powers to be the basis for resolving the Sahara issue in a peaceful manner.
Algeria’s current lobbying through proxies such as Ms. Aminatou Haidar and others aims to keep the status Quo in the Sahara by advancing the referendum and independence as the only option.
In the minds of Algeria’s strategists, keeping Morocco mired in the current situation costs it substantial resources and mitigates any resistance that morocco would pose to Algeria’s ambition to become a regional power in North Africa. Algeria’s long-term objective is to secure access to the Atlantic ocean through a client “state” such as a "Sahrawi Republic" in the disputed region.
Algeria and polisario’s plan for an independent state in southern morocco is a non-starter.

 

John W. (5)
Friday August 31, 2012, 10:07 am
Oh dear. Here's a picture of her draped in the Algerian flag while with the Algerian ambassador:--

Aminatou Haidar draped in the Flag with the Algerian Ambassador Baali

http://www.washingtonmoroccanclub.org/articles/aminatou-haidar-draped-in-the-flag-with-the-algerian-ambassador-baali.html
 

John W. (5)
Friday August 31, 2012, 10:09 am
Oh dear. Here's a picture of her draped in the Algerian flag while with the Algerian ambassador:--

Aminatou Haidar draped in the Flag with the Algerian Ambassador Baali

http://www.washingtonmoroccanclub.org/articles/aminatou-haidar-draped-in-the-flag-with-the-algerian-ambassador-baali.html
 

John W. (5)
Friday August 31, 2012, 10:12 am
Oh dear. Here's a picture of her draped in the Algerian flag while with the Algerian ambassador:--

Aminatou Haidar draped in the Flag with the Algerian Ambassador Baali

http://www.washingtonmoroccanclub.org/articles/aminatou-haidar-draped-in-the-flag-with-the-algerian-ambassador-baali.html
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Friday August 31, 2012, 4:01 pm
@ .

presumably this is 'lies you tell your country' again?

"Is your name Tommy?"

My name is not Tommy, but you accused him of racism because of his posts in opposition to islam, which you clearly don't like to hear. There is no need for a post to be directed at me for me to comment on it or ask questions. Is this what you are suggesting? Seriously??

This does not get you out of answering the question, why is it racist to oppose islam? It’s clear you are doing all you can to avoid that one, but trying to get out of it because the comment was not directed specifically at me is just pathetic. Answer please like you promised to do once I had posted the evidence of your accusation.

"A list usually consists of items with commonalities, not divergence."

Bullshit!!!! What utter bullshit!!!! A list is a list. There are no such rules for lists.

A pencil
A tin of beans
A blanket

That is a list, is it not? What do the items have in common? Nothing, right? It's still undeniably a list though. A list usually has a purpose, that’s all. For example; a shopping list, a list of things to take on a camping trip, a list of things NOT to say when you are trying to make yourself appear intelligent and at the same time trying to avoid having to answer awkward questions which prove you to be totally wrong.

The items on the list would normally be relevant to the purpose of the list. There is no need for any other association between the items on the list. This is just more bullshit to try to avoid answering the questions I have asked.

Having said that, there WAS a commonality between the items on my list which makes your criticism of it all the more foolish. The commonality was islamic terrorism. The first part of my list contained the names of three countries which are in the midst of great trouble due to Islamic terrorism. I also wanted to mention ethnic cleansing which is a tacctic used by muslims to ensure that every country is as close to 100% islamic as possible, but rather than go on to go through a long list of countries where non muslims are being ethnically cleansed, I just generalised in the last section to keep it shorter. Surely that’s not difficult to understand?

"BTW, Nigeria is not a Muslim majority country. Christianity is. "

Since both Muslim and Christianity are religions, naturally, Muslim is what is being refuted, not the country "Nigeria".”

Yes, that was easy to work out, but you still worded it incorrectly, and since you were the one who brought up semantics, I pulled you up on it. Nigeria was the subject. Nigeria is a country therefore the second sentence should have had a country as the subject, not a religion. It’s really very simple.

"When I am resorting to arguing sentence structure, then I have certainly had enough."

You were the one who resorted to arguing about sentence structure as a means to avoid answering my questions, which you are still avoiding now. This is typical of those who defend islam. You really have nothing to go on apart from some ‘politically correct’ bias. I repeat. Your stats mean nothing. Are you really so blind that you need anyone to list PROOFS for you to show how evil islam is, and how almost every country is being subjected to some form of islamic jihad? Are you so naive that you think the US is NOT a target for muslims or that they are NOT trying to take over every and any country? Are you so ignorant that you don't understand that the goal of muslims is to conquer the planet and force everyone to live under sharia law? They have stated it often enough. They march on our streets to declare it. Ex muslims have warned us of it. It’s in the Koran, the book they base their lives on. It’s one of the ‘5 pillars of islam’ - dawah, yet all you can do is cry islampohobe and racist, and spout statistics which show nothing other than the fact that America does not have enough muslims living there yet for them to be brave enough to start showing you why they are there.

Now answer my questions like you promised to do.

Why is it racist to oppose islam?
Are the ex-muslims who come out to warn us about the dangers of islam, also bigoted, racist islamophobes?
Should we pay no attention to people who have grown up as muslims and who know the truth about islam, when they warn us of the dangers of pandering to muslim demands and the danger of what muslims intend to achieve?
Will you condemn islam for its attitudes towards homosexuals, women, polytheists, atheists and apostates?
Do you have any criticism of islam at all?


 

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday August 31, 2012, 9:10 pm
Hi Gillian and Mabolisa :)

I clicked on "dotty's" non-picture and followed the link to her profile. The picture on the profile is of Maragaret Meyer. She used to post very often, but then pissed off Care2 by starting a protest blog against it, "Occupy Care2" and using posts on Care2 to advertise the blog. After that, she got booted off Care2 repeatedly, though her friends here kept claiming that her removal was the result of political bias by Care2 or report-stacking by people who don't like her. I suspect it is the entirely sensible pro-Care2 bias by Care2.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday August 31, 2012, 9:44 pm
Unbelievable. Are there any adults in the room? When has there ever been any attempt to disguise "Dotty" as anyone else Gillian? If I wanted to be someone other than me, I wouldn't have posted my picture along with my profile. In fact, "Dotty: was your creation which you very well knew. Considering you have nothing EVER to support your posts or articles, I gather all you have is flagging away people who make you look foolish (which isn't hard to do) or calling them names. In fact, I rarely see much support for your schok anymore and it is fascinating to watch you self destruct. It is kind of like watching the Tea-Party and the GOP on a crazy train careening towards a cliff.

Rather than discuss articles posted on a public forum for discussion, you both choose to spend your time attacking others.

As to a protest blog? Give me a break Stephen. Protesting what? Posting your false claims of UN documents (which never existed) and Gillian's suggestions that I take my children to Pakistan to be raped and have their throats slit verbatim? In addition, posting the exchanges of both parties certainly was much more honest than Gillian's reporting comments of mine to cyberbullyreports.com (now defunct, left the country, kicked off their server) failing to provide in the context they were made and what she had posted that I was responding to. Then, this lovely example of a human being, actually posted crap to my University website which is my workplace. Of course, this woman is so incredibly childish, she failed to realize that all of her hard work made her look crazy, not me.

You think that this is not childish, idiotic and indicative of mental illness? Rather than actually discuss the article, we have to have you two descend to this level of craziness. In addition Stephen, I still have all of the fawning emails from you. You know the ones you sent before I told you to get lost. The ones you sent before I realized how incredibly inhumane you actually are. Ones about how you were learning so much and this was good practice for you. It seems your personal attacks began to happen right after I stopped corresponding with you.

You really want to align yourself with someone who would rather spend two weeks hysterically attacking people personally than defend her own article. Not one post defending what she had submitted, but instead personalized ad hominem attacks. Sounds like a match made in heaven.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday September 1, 2012, 4:29 am
Exposed myself? What is wrong with you people? There is nothing being hidden, thus how can one be exposed. Will you condemn islam for its attitudes towards homosexuals, women, polytheists, atheists and apostates?

You have to be kidding me. This on a post where Gillian posted something not too long ago that actually attempted to equate pedophilia with homosexuality. It is not about Islam, it is about human rights, Constitutional rights and civil liberties. These 20,000 are American Muslims. Do you see the word America? They are under the constitution afforded the same rights as anyone else. In fact, if that is what we are "discussing" then we better include the GOP and their platform about women rights and gay rights.

I do not support any particular religion and in fact, support none. What I am "defending" against is the complete, erroneous claptrap you post. It is unacceptable that your bs, outright lies and/or complete lack of critical thinking skills demonstrates that your agenda is not about what you perceive as a threat, but just good old fashion bigotry.
 

Tommy S. (11)
Saturday September 1, 2012, 7:59 am
@ LMCTM
quote ....I don't care if Islam is for good or not...Unquote ... spoken like a true numpty
Update
Jumma at the DNC" has just been removed from the DNC website.

The only question remaining is---- Will the ummah jumah still be there --if not-kudos to sanity
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday September 1, 2012, 8:36 am
My whole point is that it isn't about Islam, my perspective is about Constitutionally guaranteed rights and civil liberties. I am not of the Muslim faith, I am of no faith. The crap you spout doesn't bear out. That is the point. You are not only offensive, but really quite the promoter of hate speech.
 

Tommy S. (11)
Saturday September 1, 2012, 8:37 am


@ Mablosa-- Re writing to "SaturdaySeptember 1,2012, 4:29 am".....Are you using a Ouija board to get in touch with this ethereal spirit from the nether regions that speaks fluent "Bollocks" or is it the ghost inside the care2 machine



 

Rob and Jay B. (121)
Saturday September 1, 2012, 8:38 am
Mablosa R - Margaret Meinkampf, John D/W/Allysa & Lies (good name) are all a waste of time. They wouldn't criticize any of the many hateful teachings or atrocities of Islam ever. They can't rush to its defense enough. They hate everything about democratic Israel (and the West in general) which has freedoms, even for its Muslims, women and gays, all the while they defend the hateful, brutal Hamas dictators in Gaza with their violent persecution of non-Muslims, non-Sunnis, gays, Christians, forcing women to cover their heads and broad casting hate and calls to violence on their state TV. That's the kind of people you're wasting your time on. It's best to ignore evil or you feed it.

They don't care about freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press or human rights of any kind. If they did they too would be opposing this most hateful ideology with its demeaning of women, condoning sex with children or their murders without punishment by parents, the murdering of those who criticize this death cult or have the courage to leave it, and gay people.

John D/W/Allysa even praises the Islamic Dictatorship of Iran with its oppression, torture and murder of non-Muslims, dissenters, gays, and the practice of their filthy 'temporary marriage' (prostitution to us) where even little girls are hired out for weekends with old pedophiles, just like Mohammed himself did (you note they don't even condemn this).

They don't care about the women Allah said must be killed because they were raped and can't give 4 pious Muslim men as witnesses to said assault. Allah says they are liars if they can't. This is no god of love, that's for sure. But these haters don't care. They'd defend Nazis against all criticism too, just like their ilk did in the 1930s. Nazism and Islam - perfect partners in hate, mind control, murder, force, bigotry.

These are twisted people who defend the indefensible and call it being tolerant. Defending intolerance, hate, pedophilia, homophobia, the mistreatment of women, bigotry, violence and hate is NOT what real Progressive people do. Or real feminists. Real caring people always defend the victims of hate. Not this bunch. May they be victims of Islam. That's the only way they'll open their clenched shut eyes.

 

Stephen Brian (23)
Saturday September 1, 2012, 9:33 am
Hi Margaret,

I stopped sending you those friendly messages when I began to suspect you were almost too stupid to breathe. I have changed my opinion of you since then, between your declaration of support for terrorists and your hypocritical explicit support for soldiers who fire upon people who pose them no threat, finding that your inconsistencies were a matter of propaganda and malice, not simple incompetence. Before I realized these things about you, however, I thought your ability to look up information would make you a useful study-partner for current affairs. You, once again, screwed the causation.

As for the protest-blog, I do recall seeing something critical of Care2 in general on your site. Of course, I cannot reproduce it here as you took it down and searches for it are buried beneath "Occupy@Care2". This reminds me of our original point of contention, when the site for Tadamon was edited between when I got information from it and when we discussed it. I expect you to harp on and on about how I cannot produce evidence and quotes like you did then, but it will look even less honest now as this time you were the one who ensured that no evidence could ever be produced by taking down the site.

Also, about "There is nothing being hidden", that is blatantly false. You claim to oppose all violence, hiding the fact that you only oppose it, and do so absolutely unconditionally, when it is conducted by people you don't like. You also try, poorly, to hide your inability to support your basic points by trying to change the subject. You may have decided to talk about constitutional rights, but that is not the issue here: Muslims obviously have a right to pray, but formal inclusion of a prayer-service led by a very problematic community-leader, Wahhaj, in the DNC is about politics, not rights.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday September 2, 2012, 7:08 am
Where have I supported any violence Stephen, by anyone? Never have, never will. To actually make this about me rather than about the nonsense posted in the article and subsequent posts demonstrates again how absolutely ridiculous this issue has become. Rather than actually self-educate yourself using credible sources, bloggers need not apply, you choose to rely on what is propagated on websites by people who are also trying to promote their own personal/political agenda.

Do you really think it is acceptable to actually post things such as I am too "stupid to breathe" rather than actually argue the facts. Where is this even remotely acceptable by human beings?. Where did I say terrorism didn't exist, including groups who specifically use their brand of religion to commit acts of terror. This includes those who practice Islam, just as other groups such as Christians and Jews. These people manipulate and distort religion in order to pursue a political agenda. What other way is effective to recruit young men and women to a cause if they claim that it is pre-ordained, noble and God approved? With this said, there is a good percentage of the 1.2 billion Muslims, some of which some very observant, that have no intent to support or participate in terrorism. This holds true, especially with the Religious Right, where we have the Tea-Party fuelled by religious doctrine to promote a political agenda. Do you really think that the GOP are all listening to "Onward Christian Soldiers"?

The beliefs that are constantly hysterically posted on Care 2 is the notion that

1) Islamic radicalization is rampant and trying to overthrow the US and members of the EU's democratic governance and replace it with Islamic doctrine
2) that terrorism by radicalized Islamists is the largest threat to civilization through terrorism and
3) that those terrorism is a resultant of religious doctrine not of politically motivated.

I have already addressed the realities which completely tear apart suppositions of points 1 and 2. With point 3, through extensive research conducted by Robert Pape; professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago and founder of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism (CPOST) whose current work focuses on "the causes of suicide terrorism and the politics of unipolarity." Dr. Pape also served as an advisor during the 2008 Presidential Campaign to both Republican Ron Paul and Democrat Barack Obama. Although I am certain you will find his work not to your usual standard of blogs such as Jihadwatch.com or Atlasshrugged.com, I still would put my money on Dr. Pape over Robert Spencer any day. I also want to note that there seems to be no consideration given to the nature of transnational and domestic terrorism by the posts on this thread. Commonalities between transnational and domestic terrorism may exist, but causation differs greatly. By incorporating these two distinct models of terrorism one fails to recognize that domestic terrorism is reflected through economic conditions whereas transnational terrorism hinges predominantly upon political repression. This leads one to question the nature of an incentive or qualifying factor which would lead one to actually participate or perpetuate an act of terror domestically to fulfill a non domestic agenda. As demonstrated in the "mosque trawling" cases presented by the FBI, where a domestic act has been planned (or created by the FBI) to fulfill an international agenda (for instance the target believes the informant to be a member of Al-Qaeda) underlying economic hardship of the target seems to factor in greatly.

"High-profile terrorist activities across the Middle East, especially in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, suggest that Muslim countries produce more terrorism than non-Muslim countries. Empirically, however, this has not been found to be the case (Krueger and Malečková 2003; Bravo and Dias 2006; Krueger and Laitin 2008). Krueger and Laitin, in particular, reveal that Muslim countries are no more or less likely to produce or suffer from transnational terrorism." [Boylan, Brandon M., "Economic Development, Religion, and the Conditions for Domestic Terrorism," Josef Korbel Journal of Advanced International Studies 2 (Summer 2010): p. 15. ]

The production of transnational terrorists isn't more prevalent in Muslim countries and is supported through empirical analysis.

"New research provides strong evidence that suicide terrorism such as that of 9/11 is particularly sensitive to foreign military occupation, and not Islamic fundamentalism or any ideology independent of this crucial circumstance. Although this pattern began to emerge in the 1980s and 1990s, a wealth of new data presents a powerful picture." [Pape, Robert, "It's the Occupation, Stupid", Foreign Policy, October 18, 2010]

In addition "Democratic states are more likely to be targeted by transnational terrorists not because of their regime type per se but because of the type of foreign policy they tend to pursue". [Brandon M. Boylan, "Economic Development, Religion, and the Conditions for Domestic Terrorism," Josef Korbel Journal of Advanced International Studies 2 (Summer 2010): p. 4.]

Research conducted at the University of Chicago which studied over 2,200 global suicide attacks from 1980 through 2009 demonstrated that 95% of these attacks are a reaction to foreign occupation. Further, since the US has occupied Afghanistan and Iraq (2004 - 2009). the total number of suicide attacks increased from approximately 300 (1980-2003) to an staggering 1,800 suicide attacks. 90% of the Afghanistan attacks were local (Afghans) which demonstrates that these attacks were motivated by foreign occupation not by religious radicalization.

In other words, the motivations behind transnational terrorism is not from what people are; whether it be racial, religious or gender , but from what people do. This certainly is not a defense of terrorism, but I am certain that I will be accused of being a terrorist sympathizer during this thread.

Not only does research bear out the model which holds foreign "action(s)" as a catalyst resultant in transnational terrorism, it clearly demonstrates the fallacy of the narrative "they hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other." [Bush, George W., President Bush Addresses the Nation, White House News Release, September 20, 2011]

So if you want to continue to respond to personal attacks, by all means go ahead. I, on the other hand, will be continuing to post material relevant to the article and the posts.

I also would like to know "where I change the subject". Unlike many posters on this thread, I cannot spend all day on Care2 only allowing me to respond to what I can in the time I have. Considering that you, the person who makes wild claims that don't exist, provide no support for them and then finally when corner make agree that you were wrong, you then claim that it didn't matter anyway. Get a grip Stephen. You want to start going back through posts of the last year and see how many times you have done this? You either fail to provide anything to support this mystical claims, claim that you now can't find your source or just ignore a request for you to provide something to prop up your nonsense.
 

Alexa R. (330)
Sunday September 2, 2012, 7:57 am
. (6) Sunday September 2, 2012, 7:08 am : "Do you really think it is acceptable to actually post things such as I am too "stupid to breathe" rather than actually argue the facts. Where is this even remotely acceptable by human beings?

.........In other words, the motivations behind transnational terrorism is not from what people are; whether it be racial, religious or gender , but from what people do. This certainly is not a defense of terrorism, but I am certain that I will be accused of being a terrorist sympathizer during this thread.

Not only does research bear out the model which holds foreign "action(s)" as a catalyst resultant in transnational terrorism, ..."

Perhaps you did not realise that you answered your own question? If this model you speak of bears out as ou and the author claim, then you must have been one heck of a naughty lady through your actions to have been the catalyst resultant in all the 'terrorism' you received on this thread ..
 

Rob and Jay B. (121)
Sunday September 2, 2012, 8:54 am
Dotty, Margaret Mayer, Lies My Country (which one, since you're a Canadian, how can you speak for the US?) - why don't you just use one avatar and ID and make this all so much simpler.

You still haven't explained how you can condemn all Tea Party members, not to mention all evangelical Christians, as hatemongers and bigots, yet Islam teaches much more hateful things than these people have come up with and you never condemn any of its hate and killling? The Tea Party people etc don't call for those who criticize or leave their religions or even gays to be killed, like Islam does. (Ask your friend Abdessalem to renounce these commands - he won't, just like all the other Muslims who usually show up on these things. Not one on Care2 has ever renounced these hatebased murders. Doesn't that tell you something? Probably not. They just spout 'islamophobes' to try to distract from their having to renounce hate and violence, or they have the gall to print some fairly nice verses from the Qur'an that anyone who knows anything about it, as you don't, knows those have all been abrogated/cancelled by the later disgusting hateful ones).

You are certainly a hatemonger toward Tea Party People, Republicans, evangelical Christians et al. What a hypocrite.

We're not talking about 'all' Muslims so quit using that tired retort. You can't defend the ugly, hateful, violent commands of Islam so you obfuscate, like always. It's interesting how you can condemn Muslims who speak out for the reform of Islam and the renouncing of all the many verses of hate and violence, and the many ex-muslims who also expose Islam's cruelty. What a twisted person you, and your ilk are.

You never condemn any of Islam's hateful teachings, commands and actions. You defend it and condemn all human rights activists who do, rightly, condemn its hate and the hate it practices, then hypocritically condemn all members of the Tea Party etc. It is you who is the enemy of freedom and human rights. You and your twin John W/D/Allysa should be very happy together. It's amazing how you haven't yet blamed all our dislike of Islam's hate on Zionism! You're getting lax in your hate for Israel and Jews.

Don't you dare talk about gay rights. You are an enemy if you won't renounce the commands that say to kill us. How dare you be so presumptious! You don't even deserve to speak as a woman with your refusal to stand up for all the abused women living in this woman-hating cult.
 

Ge M. (218)
Sunday September 2, 2012, 9:34 am
dotty is known as dotty because she refuses to sho her name or avatar (thank heavens, who wants to see that!) because she is ashamed and embarrassed.

If you give sources they are ignored or deemed as hate sites ie she cannot argue against the truth and refuses to accept it. Her friends are Muslims who live in countries that abuse Christians and, as they cannot argue either, merely blame Israel, Zionists and Jews or call us Islamophobes or Muslim haters. In other words, they are racist and anti-Semitic, hating and abusing all Jews and non-Jews who disagree with or expose the lies that Islam is perfect and does not want to kill everybody. According to dotty and her little friends, it is acceptable to abuse any and all other religions, atheists or agnostics but not to criticize Islam and only then it becomes racism/racist. Interesting definition.

 

Ge M. (218)
Sunday September 2, 2012, 9:40 am
Rob/Jay dotty supports the abuses against Christians in Muslim controlled countries) and has refused to speak out against it. It is acceptable for those living in Muslim controlled countries to ge abused, raped, murdered, forced out of their homes but it would not be acceptable if it happened to her.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday September 3, 2012, 7:08 am
"dotty is known as dotty because she refuses to sho her name or avatar (thank heavens, who wants to see that!) because she is ashamed and embarrassed. "

Considering that I have posted my picture not a tiger and have been pretty transparent of who I am, where I work, etc. I would think that your blather is as usual, blather. Further I didn't go and make up a facebook identity to actually post something about another Care2 member at their workplace. If you are going to go down the road where I posted your comments, well, Gillian, I posted what you had posted verbatim and included what I had posted before and after your completely unacceptable posts. There was no commentary whatsoever, just the exchange that occurred.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday September 3, 2012, 7:12 am
"I think "." may be "period" not "dotty" because someone sounds like they are PMSing. "

How old are you Monica? This is something my teenage daughter would come up with, not an adult.
 

John W. (5)
Monday September 3, 2012, 7:16 am
That Monica, a woman (presumably) would say this about another woman is so beyond the pale.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday September 3, 2012, 2:26 pm
I agree John. To actually make some stereotypical comment regarding women, by another woman is offensive. I also am quite taken aback that someone who is gay would actually support and defend an American party (yes, this thread was about America) whose agenda is to subvert the Constitutional rights and civil liberties of the LGBT community whom I actively advocate for. With that said, he has the right though to be able to support what ever he wishes.

I also am shocked by the level of virulence and mob mentality exhibited on the thread. What did I post that was so offensive to these people? I posted statistics and material from credible, mainstream sources which I used to refute their claims and the original article. Rather than actually providing material to support their claims (not crap sources, real deal sources), they have chosen to personally attack those who make them look foolish with their grade school tactics.

I am really sad for these people. It bothers me that they live in such fear of what they consider to be the impending threat. It must be a horrid existence to hate so much, to the extent that they will dismiss the truth in order to perpetuate these outlandish, fantastical anti-Muslim claims. Of course, they will claim that we are the haters, etc. I want to ask though, when have I ever hated someone based solely on their faith? Before anyone responds, criticism of a government (for instance in the case of Israel) is a whole lot different than hating a people. In fact, the love for a people and a country is demonstrated when it protests the actions of a government. Thinking out and speaking out about the Palestinian/Israel conflict (which seems where the anti-Muslim seems to originate from) and realizing that this path Israel is traveling on will certainly end the notion of a Jewish majority state, is much more courageous than mouthing the party line. Let's face it, those fueling the GOP/Tea Party machine have no use for anyone except the obscenely rich. Once they are in power, they will dismiss their bootlicking entourage, leaving them with nothing.

Also NEWSFLASH: The Democratic National Party did not sponsor the 20,000 Muslims attending the DNC. To suggest that it was is an outright lie from Breanne Howe; wife of Ben Howe, sister in law of Caleb Howe, who fails to mention her four children in her bio. Wow, mentions brother in law, but not the four kids. What's up with that? Her BIL who actually made fun of someone who was just diagnosed with cancer. Just another dysfunctional, in-breeding, T-bagging family!
 

Kit B. (276)
Monday September 3, 2012, 3:40 pm

As this hysteria began with supposed concerns about 0.5% the total Muslim population of the United States wanting to make a showing at a party convention. I want to know why or when the majority of the US population has ever been that concerned about such a tiny minority? This is fear mongering of the highest level, and based on nothing more than those who enjoy a good hate fest! If any one should be in fear, it's those who are Muslim, trying to live a normal life, trying to become a part of main stream American life during this constant barrage of baseless fear. Perhaps we have more to fear from those who give no response to the polls then those who are Muslim, there are more of them.

Gallup poll: as of November 2011 -

Protestants and other Christians - 52.5%

Catholic - 23.6%

Mormon - 1.9%

Jewish - 1.6%

Muslim - 0.5%

Other NON- Christian
Religions 2.4%

No religion or
Atheist/Agnostic 15%

No answer 2.5%
 

Past Member (0)
Monday September 3, 2012, 6:58 pm
MABOLSA RICTHIE - I must have missed this one. I haven't laughed so hard for eons.

ME: "A list usually consists of items with commonalities, not divergence."

Mabolsa: Bullshit!!!! What utter bullshit!!!! A list is a list. There are no such rules for lists.

A pencil
A tin of beans
A blanket

Below is a definition of what a list is. THE IMPORTANT PART IS "meaningful grouping or sequence?" I asked my ten year old son (one of my children who Gillian told me to to take Pakistan to be raped and have his throat slit) the meaning of list which surprisingly was very similar to the dictionary definition provided below:


list (noun)

1. a series of names or other items written or printed together in a meaningful grouping or sequence so as to constitute a record: a list of members.

So Mabolsa, in future I will now know what breeds your intolerance. The explanation lies above with "A list is a list. There are no such rules for lists."
 

Past Member (0)
Monday September 3, 2012, 7:22 pm
I should apologize for my comment to Mabolsa for poking fun at her definition of what a list is. In my defense though, I had been already called a lot worse by Mabolsa when I made that comment. With that said though, it was unkind, dismissive and patronizing to comment on Mabolsa's intellectual capability.
 

John W. (5)
Tuesday September 4, 2012, 2:38 am
It might be unkind to call out an intellectually-challenged person, but I don't know if you should be apoligising for pointing out the truth.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday September 4, 2012, 2:37 pm
Gillian-We have been over this. To surmise what others actually speak out for and what they speak against is inane. People actually do things beyond Care 2 and to base your accusations from the limited, but always unpleasant, interaction you have with me demonstrates what your purpose of using Care 2 is. This whole thread doesn't make me look foolish it makes you look foolish. I posted material which is pretty credible and your response was to attack me, call me names, make baseless accusations, and participate in mob mentality.

That is why amongst you and your buddies, I am the only adult in the room.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday September 4, 2012, 7:57 pm
Stephen - are you a grown up, or a petulant child? Adults don't behave this way, in fact many young children don't either. Stephen, where did I advocate shooting anyone?

For someone who has clearly demonstrated your complete lack of knowledge and your childish behaviour, I find it not only sad, but disturbing that an educated, young man carries on like this. You certainly may provide whatever link you wish to anyone. The people who would be asking for this "link" are the same people who behave in the same manner as you. I really don't care what their opinion is and in fact, if they ever did agree with me (in light of their extremist ideology based on nothing but crap) I would have someone check me in for deprogramming.
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Wednesday September 5, 2012, 3:52 pm
@ stupid aka dotty

"That is why amongst you and your buddies, I am the only adult in the room."

No. You're actually just only the only adult in the room who feels the need to look up the definition of the word list, and to ask 10 year olds for their opinions to try to win an argument which you then go on to lose by posting a comment which proved you wrong and your opponent right.

You're also guilty of just CLAIMING you're right when you basically just avoid tackling the awkward stuff which proves you wrong. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT adult behaviour. Neither is it clever.
 

Gerry Moran (17)
Wednesday September 5, 2012, 4:08 pm
@ stupid aka dotty again

"... your response was to attack me, call me names, make baseless accusations, and participate in mob mentality."

WOW!

islamophobe! Racist! Intolerant! Bigot!

You've used these "baseless accusations" regularly as your ONLY defence, whereas Gillian and others have posted quotes from the koran and hadith as proof of the evil of islam. When asked to explain these "baseless accusations" and the name calling, which you share as a tactic with the likes of john the perv and others as you participate in "mob mentality", you cannot do so. Not ONCE have you explained why it is racist to oppose islam. Not ONCE have I seen you demonstrate intolerance or hate speech from anyone opposed to islam. You just throw insults around in an attempt to shut people up. Care to try some explanations now??


 

Gerry Moran (17)
Wednesday September 5, 2012, 4:47 pm
“Will you condemn islam for its attitudes towards homosexuals, women, polytheists, atheists and apostates?

You have to be kidding me. This on a post where Gillian posted something not too long ago that actually attempted to equate pedophilia with homosexuality.”

Well dotty. I guess I have your answer. Not only will you NOT condemn islam for its attitudes towards homosexuals, women, polytheists, atheists and apostates, but you express it emphatically:

“You have to be kidding me”

At least we have it confirmed by you that you are as bad as the muslims you defend. They would be proud of you I’m sure. You have also demonstrated that the ability to use ‘big words’ does not necessarily mean you are intelligent. You seem to be attempting to justify this refusal to condemn such evil on the grounds that, in your opinion, “...Gillian posted something not too long ago that actually attempted to equate pedophilia with homosexuality” I’m not going to start arguing about whether or not she did in fact do as you say she did. But, if she had done this, in what way would that justify refusal to condemn such intolerance?

“The beliefs that are constantly hysterically posted on Care 2 is the notion that

1) Islamic radicalization is rampant and trying to overthrow the US and members of the EU's democratic governance and replace it with Islamic doctrine
2) that terrorism by radicalized Islamists is the largest threat to civilization through terrorism and
3) that those terrorism is a resultant of religious doctrine not of politically motivated.

I have already addressed the realities which completely tear apart suppositions of points 1 and 2.”

In your own tiny little mind and bigoted, depraved world, yes. But in reality, all you have done is ignore the evidence.

On point one, I have already told you about the organisation called Sharia4the uk. There is a Sharia4belgium, a sharia4australia, a sharia4holland, a sharia4india etc. You do not need to carry out extensive research on this subject to verify it. These people march on our streets DEMANDING sharia law for each country they live in. What more proof do you need?
Well, how about
“Police in Amsterdam have arrested the spokesperson of the Islamist group Sharia4Holland on charges of making death threats against the Dutch Freedom Party leader, Geert Wilders.
Abu Qasim, was arrested after a speech he gave in Amsterdam's central Dam Square on May 25, when he warned that Wilders would be "dealt with" once the Netherlands became an Islamic state.”
Got that dotty??? “…Wilders would be "dealt with" ONCE THE NETHERLANDS BECAME AN ISLAMIC STATE.”
I guess that doesn’t mean anything, right?
Dutch Justice Minister Ivo Opstelten, in testimony to the Dutch Parliament on May 29, said that radical muslims are becoming more provocative and activist and "there is a risk that Sharia4Holland supporters could cross the line and use violence."
Violence huh? From muslims?? This guy cannot be serious!!

Point 2) “that terrorism by radicalized Islamists is the largest threat to civilization through terrorism”

Uhmm... terrorism is the largest threat to civilization through uhm... terrorism?

OK, I’ll refrain from debating about the stupidity of the wording, and concentrate on the stupidity of the meaning. So, we look around the globe dotty, and we see war in so many places, right? Who is at war? Which group are involved in just about EVERY conflict on the go right now, and stretching back years too? That’s right dotty... muslims. Despite this fact, despite what we see going on in the middle east right now, where muslims have risen up against their governments, overthrown them using violence, then once this has been achieved, gone hunting for non mulims to terrorise and chase from the land, you still can’t see a problem.

In many countries, muslims carry out regular deadly attacks against innocent non muslims, which you have already said you condone, but civilization is not at risk? How do you think the world would be if every country was run as an Islamic theocracy? It would be a disaster for human rights, and if you doubt this, then you are extremely naive.

It’s not just about terrorism actually. It’s simply about islam. islam is the greatest threat to civilization because muslims want to carry out the instructions in the koran and force their evil death cult on everyone. You could NEVER claim that islam is civilized, whereas the western world is. Since the western world is their greatest enemy, islam is most definitely a threat to civilization. It’s not even just the western world. EVERY country which is not already Islamic i.e ‘dar al harb’ as opposed to ‘dar al islam’, is a target. EVERY non muslim is at risk. EVERY democracy is at risk. EVERY civilized country is at risk. But it’s ok folks. Dotty and John don’t see a problem.

Moving on to point 3, “through extensive research conducted by Robert Pape; professor of Political Science blah blah blah...”

What a waste of time. He should have just taken a look at the koran to see where the motivation comes from. After all, that is where muslims get their religious beliefs from in the first place.

2.216 Fighting is enjoined on you, and it may be an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

2.193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
8.55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.
8:65 O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.

8:67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter.

These and other verses from islamic RELIGIOUS texts, together with the fact that islam was spread by the sword and is still spread by violence today, and a look around the planet at the mayhem, death and destruction caused by muslims every day, should have been enough to give him his answer to the question of whether or not terrorism is a result of religious doctrine rather than being politically motivated. (I had to correct this of course, since you’d worded it in a totally idiotic way – “that THOSE TERRORISM is a RESULTANT of religious doctrine NOT OF POLITICALLY MOTIVATED”

I’m afraid dotty, that you have failed miserably to disprove any of the above points. All you have done, as usual, is ignore the evidence.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday September 5, 2012, 7:24 pm
Mabolsa - where have I been bigoted. I have stated on numerous occasions that I am not supporting Islam. I am supporting the Constitutional rights and civil liberties American Muslims are afforded under the Constitution. These rights apply to all America's citizens.

What I did dispute was the rhetoric which involves claims that are completely unsupported by any credible data, research or analysis? I also support these same Constitutional rights and civil liberties for Christians, Jews, Hinduism, Mormonism, Buddhism, Bahá'í Faith, Sikhism, Jainism, Taoism Confucianism, etc. I was not the person who added the global equation to this, but if people are going to post erroneous information, I am going to challenge it. This too is an overblown, fear driven narrative which also doesn't bear out.

"First of all, I think that should be “Why”, not “How” Secondly, I stated many times that I was not disputing your stats, but that I considered them to be irrelevant. "

All I can say is logic, critical thinking skills and common sense defies your statement.

"You've used these "baseless accusations" regularly as your ONLY defence, whereas Gillian and others have posted quotes from the koran and hadith as proof of the evil of islam."

Really? Considering most of the times I used anything related to the following "islamophobe! Racist! Intolerant! Bigot! " was actually against bloggers from known hate sites, that are declared to be hate sites, not by me, but by the SPLC and ADL.

“Will you condemn islam for its attitudes towards homosexuals, women, polytheists, atheists and apostates?"

You have to be kidding me. This on a post where Gillian posted something not too long ago that actually attempted to equate pedophilia with homosexuality.”

Well dotty. I guess I have your answer. Not only will you NOT condemn islam for its attitudes towards homosexuals, women, polytheists, atheists and apostates, but you express it emphatically:

“You have to be kidding me” "

I don't know if English is your second language, but your post defies all logic, demonstrates no fundamental concept of the command of the English language.

This is what was written which you conveniently took out the part to which I was directing the "you have to be kidding me" to.

"Exposed myself? What is wrong with you people? There is nothing being hidden, thus how can one be exposed."

The statement "Will you condemn islam for its attitudes towards homosexuals, women, polytheists, atheists and apostates? " came from you. As for the Gillian statement, "This on a post where Gillian posted something not too long ago that actually attempted to equate pedophilia with homosexuality.” was from a thread where Gillian posted something which inferred that homosexuality resulted in pedophilia. In fact, it was Rob/Jay who actually made note of Gillian's inference.

Where in the world, in that exchange, does it have me defending any Islam as you claim? I already told you that I am not going to argue the Quran with people who take their interpretation from people who derive it from hate sites and have no real knowledge of the subject. Check out the Bible which has some really interesting points that would also be considered as violent as the Quran. Further, it is not about the Quran, it is about the Constitution which provides specifically for the freedom of religious expression, not just the ones you feel are acceptable. Since the "Islamic threat" you all rail about is less of a threat of many other forms of terrorism and that actually American Muslims who are observant of their religion and involved in their faith based community are not much of a threat, what is your point? You claim that statistics are irrelevant. Data which contradicts that Islamic radicalization is out to kill us all, (the us being the infidels), that Muslim Americans wish to destroy America (statistically, they are less of a threat of other forms of terrorism which are acted upon by Americans who aren't Muslim) and other inflammatory statements which stereotype and generalize a faith base population prove these claims to be completely wrong. To continue perpetuating these myths in light of evidence which contradicts them is Islamophobic. Whether it be fear, hatred or bigotry which fuels this behaviour, it is irrational (especially when you agree with the statistics I have provided).

If it makes you feel a little better about yourself to call me stupid, question my intelligence, etc., you go girl. There is a big difference is stating that someone who makes statements which demonizes a faith based population with nothing to back it up a bigot and people who make their argument based upon calling people stupid, questioning their intelligence and the piece d'resistance "retard" (who in their right mind would even use this word to describe people, it's offensive). Making statements and liberally applying them to a whole group with a very broad brush is an act of bigotry and Islamophobia.

To make fun of people's names, apply stereotypical definitions to another woman (I realize Monica was who stated this, but I am addressing the mob en masse) and call them names like "dotty" is childish. I certainly could make fun of your name, but I am not going to do so. Why would I? To continue to try to win an argument by calling the other party stupid, idiot, moron and the famous "too stupid to breathe" only makes them look foolish and intolerant.

Actually while you go on about Sharia4 this, and Sharia4that, where is there any evidence that the 20,000 people who are featured in this want to bring Sharia to America? We have a mainstream political party in the United States who may (or may not) actually be the next Administration which has a platform just as controversial and extremist who are a lot closer to being able to enact their agenda and this is why you want to deny Constitutional rights to American citizens?

As for your list business. For God's sake, look at what you said a list was, a completely random list. Look at the definition and see where randomness fits. I asked a ten year old specifically for you thinking that maybe the dictionary definition would be too difficult for you to understand.

"In your own tiny little mind and bigoted, depraved world, yes. But in reality, all you have done is ignore the evidence. "

Please demonstrate where I am bigoted, where I am depraved. What have a stated anywhere here that would consist of me living in a depraved world?"

"Wilders would be "dealt with" ONCE THE NETHERLANDS BECAME AN ISLAMIC STATE.” "

Do you not understand that people from all different faiths, different races, nationalities, etc. make claims like this. We had Clint Eastwood gesturing to slit Obama's (that is the President of the United States) throat on national television at the Republican National Convention. You want to claim I am a bigot. I haven't shown any bigotry about anyone. If you want to claim the T-Party, take a look at what those at the helm actually say. I just posted what they think of the LGBT communities. This is not the rhetoric of the fringe members, but this is the rhetoric of the leadership. When you have people equating homosexuality to bestiality, I am pretty tame in what I say about them. Other than the Tea-Party, there is not one group I have made any generalized statement about, demonstrated any bigotry nor made any racist statement.

Yup, Robert Pape or your interpretation of the Quran. I don't know why Homeland Security and the FBI don't call you up for advice on how to win the "War on Terror". I want to note that probably much of what has been posted by you and the others on this thread would constitute hate speech in Canada.
 

Diane B. (28)
Wednesday September 12, 2012, 11:33 am
Radical Islamists are a cancer. Does anybody like or want a cancer like this?
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday September 12, 2012, 2:22 pm
maggot, you continually criticize and blame Israel for existing, condemn anyone who dislikes extreme Islam,, female abuse, paedophilia, rape, murder, attack people to force them to flee the country forcibly convert people, etc.Yet you refuse to condemn these behaviours and find them acceptable.

In Pakistan it is known that a 14 year old girl with learning disabilities was set up by an imam and arrested causing her family and the rest of the community to flee. Even if this girl is found innocent she will still be killed. Aisa Bibi is waiting on death row because she was accused of blasphemy. A moderate government official who was trying to get her released was murdered for doing so. Christian girls are kidnapped and put into a brothel. Women & girls are kidnapped, raped and forcibly married to the rapist even if she is married to someone else. Little girls are raped and no-one cares, acid is thrown over children and girls.

You claim that you do not support Islam but you have never condemned any such behaviour. You condemn people who condemn such appalling perversions, abuses, rape etc. If you do not condemn such behaviour you must accept it. Anyone who accepts such appalling and disgusting behaviour who is not an extreme Muslim is mentally sick. You claim not to be a Muslim..........

 

Past Member (0)
Thursday September 13, 2012, 4:04 pm
After having a week to actually respond, this is what you've got? Obviously, you haven't made any type of an effort. All I get is name calling? This is what the problem is with your arguments, it has nothing to do with the article, but everything you claim other posters do or don't do. Rather than actually provide something that supports your outlandish claims, you either deflect or personally attack posters through juvenile name calling. It is embarrassing to watch a middle aged woman act like a juvenile delinquent. It is kind of like watching in horror while someone soil themselves in public.

Gillian, I provided stats that you used, but of course why go to the primary source when you can get it from a blog, where the blogger admits that he is not an expert in this. On top of it, his whole blog actually supports exactly what I say, not your arguments. You haven't even made an attempt to prove disprove this. Do you actually think that everyone has a really short memory and won't remember how foolish you made yourself look? You made a claim of a sedition rate of 80% in mosques. I have asked you to provide something to support this (the statistics you referred to actually disputes your claim), but again nothing.

I do not have to answer to you Gillian. Whether I condemn something on a public forum, where people like you envision themselves as activists while sitting on the couch, eating chips, posting regurgitated nonsense means absolutely nothing. It is what people actually do. Do you think your condemnation of anything means anything in the great scheme of things. You are such a foolish woman Gillian. If my child carried out in such a manner, I would be aghast. Yet a grown mother of two adults acts like she is in a school yard.

We are not talking about Pakistan, we are talking about the DNC Convention, American Muslims and how the claims of a Islamic radicalized terrorist behind every bush is not statistically supported. How hard is that to actually follow? Who ever even said that Pakistan was good governance? Or Iran or Saudi Arabia for that matter?

If it makes you feel big and powerful by calling me "maggot" or personally attacking anyone who disagrees with you, or even plastering crap all over my workplace's webspace, you go girl. You obviously need much more help than anyone here can offer you and if it makes you feel special and grown up, go right ahead.


























 

Past Member (0)
Thursday September 13, 2012, 4:16 pm
"Radical Islamists are a cancer. Does anybody like or want a cancer like this?"

The discussion was about American Muslims, not radical Islamists and you now get your material from defamed film maker who started all of this crap and has been denounced by everyone, including Coptic Christians????
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday September 15, 2012, 7:48 am
I returned to this post after a long time in hospital to find out again that there is a very reasonable voice who sticks to the subject of this conversation,provides facts,statistics from reliable resources,supports civil and political rights of American citizens who happened to be Muslims.They have been falsely accused for years of deserting themselves from their communities and not integrating themselves with their neighborhood both locally and nationally.Now when they join and share and want to practice their rights to be an active part in their country's civil and political affairs,they are faced by some fascists,pro-discrimination mindless creatures just because they belong to the Islamic faith.
Those mindless,Fascist,Islamophobs can't even be subjective.They can't stick to the subject of this conversation or provide any reliable statistics to what the claim within the subject.Just name calling,showing clearly their hate speech and in one word failing to face facts . This was ,and still is,their way and they apparently think that in this way they can defeat facts.Their ignorance makes them blind so they restart showing it again and again.They don't feel ashamed of denying the fellow Americans their civil and political rights including the right of expression and when they are caught doing something that is considered wrong,they simply say " this is freedom of expression as if they only have this right and others don't.
They can't or don't want to look at the mirror because they know well that they are going to see themselves:sick,liars,fascists,Zionists,hate mongers ........etc

"The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace.’
(AL-Furqan 25: 63).

Peace be on all fools.God bless you Mag.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday September 15, 2012, 8:28 am
Thank you Abdessalam. You again resonate with the voice or reason in the tsunami of bigotry and hatred. On this thread I have been accused of "name calling" by accusing posters of bigotry and hatred based on intolerance of a faith. These accusations are accurate and I stand by them. This is not bastardizing someone's name like a juvenile delinquent in a school yard. My accusations are borne out by the intolerance and bigotry demonstrated through their posts which are based on nothing but distortion, misinformation and outright lies. They provide nothing to support their claims and in fact, Mabolsa clearly stated above "there is no need for statistics and research, when you can plainly see these people demanding to change the country into an Islamic theocracy" . Statistics is data which clearly demonstrates what these posters claim to be true, is in fact completely erroneous. Thus, the dismissal of these facts (which Mabolsa claims she doesn't disagree with) that demonstrate the Muslims aren't greatest threat to America is based solely on bigotry. To use mistranslation of the Quran without allowing for context is sheer distortion. The same can be done for anything and to actually use this as "proof" again demonstrates how out of their depth these posters are.
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 16, 2012, 1:30 am
Why must I respect Islam or any other religious beliefs? I respect your right to have your religious beliefs. I respect your right to express them. I respect you so long as you respect me. I do not respect your “right” to tell me that I am an evil person. I do not respect your “right” to tell me that I am going to hell. I do not respect your “right” to impose your beliefs on me. I do not respect ignorance. I do not respect brainwashing. I do not respect cults. I do not respect hatred, bigotry, misogyny, sexism, or tyranny. I do not respect your religion and I don’t have to.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Sunday September 16, 2012, 9:50 am
Dale K.
Welcome to Care2.You joined care2 on Sept.14,2012 and here was,may be, your first comment on Sept.16,2012. Great.I wonder,however, if you could have time to read the subject of this conversation and realize that it is about the right of American Muslims to be a part of their country's political and civil stage.I thought you will give us your opinion whether or not you think they have the right to do so regardless of the faith they belong to as USA citizens.Instead you end your comment saying" I do not respect hatred, bigotry, misogyny, sexism, or tyranny. I do not respect your religion and I don’t have to.". I wonder to whom are you directing this sentence ? I understand that you are tired of "the poverty and neglect" but I don't think that this gives you the right to describe other peoples religion with words like "hatred, bigotry, misogyny, sexism, or tyranny." . By the way Dale respect is a two way channel.You may be respected should you respect others.
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 16, 2012, 5:17 pm
Thanks for the welcome Abdessalam Diab. As far as my opinion, there's freedom of religion in the United States. I really don't care what religion a politician is as long as that politician doesn't keeps religion and state separate, but Mitt Romney and the rest of the Republicans (and some Democrats) in Congress don't understand that and are going against the separation of church and state. Whatever religion one wants to practice in the privacy of one's own home, go for it. But when I go to a cafe, I don't particularly appreciate people handing me flyers, literature/pamphlets, asking me questions about my belief in sky-daddy. That is an invasion of personal space and privacy. It is intrusive.
Looking through the board, there is nothing but arguing and whining on both sides. Jew vs. Muslim, Muslim vs. Christian, Protestant vs. Catholic, Catholic vs Mormon and the list could go on and on.
If you can't see a pattern, how differences of religions is one of the biggest things that can breed hatred in the history of the world, keep looking. I know you want me to single you out, people love to play the victim, but when I say "I don't respect your religion and I don't have to", it is directed to the person who is reading it, regardless of that person's religion.
" I don't think that this gives you the right to describe other peoples religion with words like "hatred, bigotry, misogyny, sexism, or tyranny." - There is a very awful thing in America called Freedom of Speech. I have a right to speak my opinions, whether or not anyone likes them.
I can work with people of different religions as long as they don't bring it up or quote their mumbo-jumbo scriptures to me. I won't bring it up if they don't. Still, depending on the situation, one's inability to express their religion in the workplace sometimes causes major conflict. I don't respect that. I don't respect hypersensitive people who react to insults with sodomy, rape, torture and destruction. I don't respect the intolerance that religions teach, and they all (especially Abrahamic monotheistic religions) breed hatred and intolerance. Anyone can be whatever religion they want, but if I don't need any help from sky-daddy, it's no one else's business, or place to intrude.
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 16, 2012, 5:21 pm
correction - " I really don't care what religion a politician is as long as that politician doesn't keeps religion and state separate" to
I really don't care what religion a politician is as long as that politician keeps religion and state separate
 

Dale K. (28)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 7:20 am
just waiting on YOU and dot dot dot to call me a "racist" because I know you both are dying to do so, you love it
,
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 7:04 pm
Why would I call you a racist for your point of view. There is no where I say any racism or bigotry in it. You are afforded to the same rights as anyone else and certainly may express your opinion (which I didn't find extreme in anyway). I certainly don't care what religion a President is as long as it isn't used in governance. I also am not a Muslim, nor do I want to be one. I also believe that both parties are under influence of the religious right to some degree which I greatly fear. I am not religious and have no use for it. With that said though, I do respect Abdessalam's right to practice his faith and support his right to freedom of religious expression.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 7:09 pm
Also Dale, I want to note, that I find it odd that you claim that "I am dying to do so" (call you a racist, when actually what you have stated has been covered in what I posted here and in other threads. My argument is not support for Islam, but it is against the misinformation, distortion and outright lies that are posted on this thread and many others. There is no statistical support for many of these posts. The threat by Islam radicalization is blown completely out of proportion. That is what makes these posts bigoted. Not because they are based on an opinion, but they are based on outright lies. It is inflammatory in nature and in Canada, much of this would be considered hate speech.
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 2:04 am
well arrest me then!!! Arrest whoever you want to with "hate speech" with your powerful Canadian law
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 2:08 am
a very interesting article. Am I racist for agreeing with this? I know I must be according to your very shallow opinion:
Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion
September 21, 2012 at 1:33 pm Ed Brayton

“Freedom of religion isn’t freedom from religion.” We hear this statement repeated so often by the religious right types that it has almost become a mantra for them. But here’s a story that illustrates very well why you cannot have the former if you don’t have the latter.

In India, a minority religion called Jainism has an annual celebration called Paryushana that lasts 8-10 days. It’s similar to Lent in Christianity and Yom Kippur in Judaism, a time when the adherents of the religion fast and meditate to become more virtuous. But the Supreme Court of India has ordered all of the slaughterhouses and meat shops to not sell any meat during that period out of “respect” — whatever the hell that could mean in this context — for the Jains’ beliefs.

The order may apply only to a particular region of India, but the article doesn’t make that clear. But it doesn’t really matter. This is not freedom of religion, it is the imposition of someone else’s religion on those who do not share it. It isn’t “respect” to force non-Jains to comply with the requirements of a religion they do not believe in, it is religious authoritarianism. The Jains do, of course, have every right to participate in their religious rituals as they see fit, but they do not have any right to demand that others bow to their demands. Those who are not Jains do not have freedom of religion here if they do not have freedom from the impositions of a religion they do not belong to.
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 2:50 am
Is there any kind or FBI, ACLU or secret service in Canada? I want to get all these people I disagree with indicted for 'hate speech'
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 3:06 am
'freedom of speech/expression/opinion' is just such an awful thing, isn't it? Let me find a way to arrest someone for it
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 3:10 am
The entire 'freedom of speech' thing. Once you have anti-blasphemy legislation, there goes freedom out the door.
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 5:01 am
Burn down the embassy! They told the truth about our profit(prophet). Oh what ever willl I do?!?!?! I cannot contain myself, I must commit violence! I must respond to such criticism with a murderous agenda. Because Allah can't do shit, so I must do it for 'him'
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 5:08 am
dotdotdot, I speak to you because of how you make yourself out to be so self-righteous/learned whatever here. it is not flattering in the least. Even if you are right, you have the nastiest, totally wrong approach to the situation, and you are not helping it at all. You are further creating major division, but after reading your offensive comments, that seems to be your main objective. As long as you can make and keep enemies. Not a very optimistic approach to such situations. Shame on you big time.
 

Dale K. (28)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 5:42 am
from everything i have read and seen it seems you paint AMERICANS with a very broad brush. So culturally insensitive (and incorrect/irresponsible) of your CANADIAN SUPREMACY (ARROGANCE)!
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Sunday September 23, 2012, 8:38 am
Ignoring fools is the best way to let them shut up.If they don't let them bark. Period.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Monday September 24, 2012, 10:32 am
I will and am sure only fools won't. The sun is shinning and only fools thank we are still at midnight.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Monday September 24, 2012, 10:35 am
Correction
I will and am sure only fools won't. The sun is shinning and only fools think we are still at midnight. Let them bark.
 
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