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Offbeat  (tags: animals, poachers. Muslims, Islam, terrorists, terrorism, poaching, elephants, ivory, slaughter, crime, environment, protection, safety, wildlife )

- 1623 days ago -
o Al Shabaab is thought to earn £400,000 a year selling ivory in Somalia o 60 wardens and 38,000 elephants have been killed in the past year o 25 British soldiers will spend coming weeks teaching rangers to patrol better

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Gillian M (218)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 7:17 am
British troops deployed to save Kenyan elephants from illegal slaughter trade that is funding terrorist attacks
Al Shabaab is thought to earn £400,000 a year selling ivory in Somalia

60 wardens and 38,000 elephants have been killed in the past year

25 British soldiers will spend coming weeks teaching rangers to patrol better

British troops have been deployed to save Kenya's elephants being slaughtered by terrorists for their valuable tusks.

Al Shabaab, a group linked to Al Qaeda, is said to be funding their training and attacks by selling elephant and rhino horns on the Somalian black market - a trade worth £12billion a year.

In the past year, 60 wardens and 38,000 elephants have been killed by illegal poachers.

In an initiative backed by Prince Charles and Prince William, 25 soldiers from 3rd Batallion Parachute Regiment have been sent to train Kenyan rangers.

The paratroopers, currently based 200 miles north of Nairobi, will spend the coming weeks teaching the Kenyan Wildlife Service, Kenyan Forestry Service and Mount Kenya Trust to patrol better, work more effectively as a team, and how to tackle poachers.

The Government has also arranged for a British prosecutor to also advise her Kenyan counterparts in a bid to cripple terrorist funding in North Africa and protect the endangered species.

Environment secretary Owen Paterson, who was in Kenya last week, said: 'Illegal poaching is having a devastating effect on some of the world’s most iconic species.

'By joining forces with those on the frontline in Kenya, our armed services will be able to provide training and support to the courageous people who put their lives on the line every day.'

Earlier this year, Prince William urged leaders to take on illegal poachers to 'determine the fate of some of the world's most captivating species.'

He said failure to do so would be 'a catastrophe'.

Brigadier Duncan Francis, the UK’s defence attache in Nairobi, said: 'This is an excellent example of the British Army taking positive action on an issue close to many people’s hearts.

'The 25 soldiers will be making an immense contribution to securing the future of some of the world’s most endangered species.'

As the price of 'blood ivory' - illegally poached tusks - soars in Africa, gangs have developed new techniques to slay animals, such as poisoning watering holes.

Al Shabaab is believed to be one of the key groups behind the increasing figures.

The terrorist clan earns £400,000 a month in the trade - enough to pay their jihadists £75 a week, the Sunday Express reported.

In a bid to quash the business, Hillary Clinton unveiled an $80 million plan to tackle elephant poaching in September.

She warned that money from the wildlife crime could have funded the attack on the Westgate shopping mall in Kenya last month, a theory which is backed by elephant conservation groups.

Rhinos are also highly sought after in the trade.

Sellers are now said to be pricing single rhino horns higher than its weight in cocaine.

Last month the Kenyan government said every rhino in the country would have a microchip implanted in its horn to help stop the trade.

The micro-chipping project is being supported by the World Wildlife Fund, which donated the chips.

Rhino horn is highly sought after in Asia, where it is used in traditional medicines.

Gillian M (218)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 7:20 am
The game wardens are proud of their wildlife and know that they risk their lives every time that they go on patrol. Most of them have old guns with which to protect themselves whilst the poachers have modern weapons, especially the terrorists.

'Blood Ivory': Brutal Elephant Slaughter Funds African Conflicts

Lisa b (0)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 7:30 am
It s totally against Islam to kill animals other than for food and in the permissable manner; so I cannot believe as an animal lover myself that they kill these elephants for their ivory. However if they do then the individual muslims doing this are doing it for their own free will not for a religion, and these individuals are not practising. Most muslims are kind and no way would do this.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 7:32 am
It is nice to know that the Kenyan government is getting help to stop this trade. I imagine that the governments of the world could also put pressure on the government of Somalia not to allow this heinous and diabolical trade on their street train their soldiers and police officers how to spot and stop this trade in their country.

Shil O (0)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 9:17 am
60 wardens and 38000 elephants murdered
Is this the only type of contribution muslims can make to society because it seems to be a global problem

Every year, over 100,000 Christians (one every 5 minutes) are being slaughtered, mostly by Muslims, solely because of their religion
shellG2This shocking figure was disclosed by Italian sociologist Massimo Introvigne, representative of the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) on Combating Intolerance and Discrimination against Christians, at the International Conference on Inter-religious dialogue between Christians, Jews and Muslims,

and worst of all the so-called governments in the west and the churches don't seem to give a rats ass

Wednesday November 13, 2013, 10:15 am
One of the fundamental problems with following a supremacist ideology is that you have to believe fervently that any means justifies the end. A true believer would not loose any sleep over killing 38,000 people let alone 38,000 elephants whilst pursuing what he believes to be his Jihad!

Wednesday November 13, 2013, 10:22 am
Patricia Raven, that is a wise sentiment but unfortunately the recognised Somalian government has its hands full just trying to stay in power whilst being assailed by these elephant killers. Our pretty hopeless governments (at least on the issues of endangered species) need to put pressure on the countries who are the end users of ivory. Japan is one of the worst culprits followed by China with Vietnam and other SE Asian countries as well as Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan and the Emirates.

Carol Dreeszen (346)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 11:23 am
Bernard..I agree with you on that 100%!!! It's very telling when they do not even value human life so Animal life would be below that that yet!!

Gillian M (218)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 11:39 am
Lisa, of course Muslims are kind to animals that is why they torture animals to be slaughtered for food for days beforehand often blinding them etc before cutting their throats and leaving them lying on the ground bleeding slowly to death and in great suffering. This suffering has been so bad that an Egyptian vet spoke out against it. Muslims don't take dogs and throw them off roof tops and leave them to die. Nor do they commit acts of bestiality that Mohammed supported. They don't kick donkeys off of mountains nor do they set them on fire. Try this

Beth S (330)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 12:33 pm
Curse these people. They should all be killed immediately, like the rest of Al Qaeda.

Waltraud U (84)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 1:34 pm

Past Member (0)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 2:51 pm
Elephants, wardens, Christians, Buddhists, Jews.................

If it moves, they'll kill it. Wake up!! It's coming to your town too..........soon!

Robert B (60)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 5:40 pm
Lisa is correct, Real Muslims who actually practice true Islam do not torture animals nor do true Muslims murder Christians. The abusers are Muslim in name only. They are just like Christians who do not follow the teachings of the New Testament. They are religious FRAUDS and are no better than common criminals. Those that hide behind fanatical Fundamentalism are a cancer on society.

mar l ene dinkins (264)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 6:10 pm

mar l ene dinkins (264)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 6:35 pm
noted with anger!!!!!!!!

DaleLovesOttawa O (198)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 8:51 pm
Poaching for any reason is terrible and must be stopped. Many do it, including westerners - one could put up the caption terrorists slaughter the elephants to fund x, y and z. Then there are those killing elephants or rhinos for medicinal purposes. The lists never ends, just the cast of nefarious characters and the animals that are near extinction because of this. I could care less if they are Muslim or the tooth fairy. End poaching now.

PrimaAWAY B (1278)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 9:10 pm
This is really terrible. These are not humane or decent people that are able to do this. Not for food.... this is crazy. I don't believe in any hunting and this was not hunting for food for survival and the religion shi* that is allowed is sick also....
This is mass murder!!!! I don't have much hope that anything will be done,sadly.

Stan B (123)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 9:22 pm
38000 in one year!! And 60 wardens!! These bastards should be shot on sight. Why has it taken so long for any kind of action against them?

Beth S (330)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 9:27 pm
Dale O.,

This is Al Shabaab -- no not a singing group -- but an Al Qaeda offshoot. You should care who it is. These people are bloody murderers, the same way Al Qaeda is. And this is to finance their Al Qaeda "activities" -- ruthless murder of humans and animals. 38,000 elephants.


Beth S (330)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 9:32 pm
Robert and Lisa,

You are right. There are many Muslims who are kind people and do not hurt others, non-Muslims. They may be good people, but they are bad Muslims.

In many places in the Qur'an it says that Muslims should kill and terrorize non-Muslims. It says to smile at non-Muslims, but hate them in your hearts. There are many things that are absolutely horrible that Islam tells its followers to do, and these things are open-ended and apply for all time.

If you don't know, you should. Try and you can see the many, many verses on hating and terrorizing non-Muslims and also killing animals.


Victoria Oakey (124)
Wednesday November 13, 2013, 11:08 pm
Noted. Better protection is good news. Shocking statistics of murder of elephants and their brave wardens. Thank you.

DaleLovesOttawa O (198)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 2:03 am
Is anyone having problems loading comments in the other pages such as Healthy living? I am logged in but when hitting the orange add comment button it goes to a blank white page which says Invalid Response. When I reload the page it goes back to where I was commenting and the comment is there. I am curious if anyone else is having these problems elsewhere. I can't load any more than ten comments on any article.

Carola May (20)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 2:18 am
Nice to see British troops engaged in something good like this. Good for them!

Hilary S (65)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 3:17 am
terrorism is an expensive habit, and legitimate funding sources, such as via the UN and EU, are limited - hence the need to profiteer from ivory, drugs and other exploitative avenues.

Vlasta M (7)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 7:33 am
It would be interesting to know how many people were killed by the Muslims in the period when they killed those 38,000 elephants! Islam is a supremacist ideology of hate of ALL Kuffir (a derogatory name for non-Muslims) and is proud of killing infidels and dhimmis, promising the murderers for Allah a Muslim paradise with 72 virgins and 12 prepubescent boys "to do with them as they please"..

While 35% of Koran (written during Mecca period when he was able to attract just a few followers, before Mohamed discovered that he can get more followers by sward) are pale copies of Judaism and Christianity and contain some nice stories that Mohamed got by hanging around Jewish and Christian traders (whom he subsequently murdered and looted their property), 65% of Koranic verses are commanding Muslims to hate and commit criminal acts against non-Muslims. This thing about humanity to animals is phoney baloney, just as most stuff that "peaceful" Muslims say in order to cover up for their co-religionists of whom 20% would murder and die for Allahu Akbar, just as those Saudi terrorists in 9/11/2001 who shouted Allahu Akbar, while plunging planes into WTO.

Since there are 1,640 MILLIONS of Muslims world wide, that 20% translates into ~320 MILLIONS of potential terrorists who want to destroy Western civilization, many of them living in our midst. In USA, the Muslim Brotherhood of Barack Hussein Obama is not only legal, but is actually a frequent visitor in the White house of Obama, who extolls Islam and Koran, and bows to Saudi king, whose subjects committed crimes of 9/11/2001 and whose oil money financing teaching hatred of their host countries in mosques springing up in Europe, Australia and USA..

Killing 38,000 elephants and dealing drugs by the Jihadists is to pay costs of jihad against the Western civilization which they are conditioned to hate by the writings of their "holly" book, which is a hate script against good life. They also rape in the nname of Islam and engage in pedophilia, and polygamy, since their role model is Mohamed who was a pedophile, polygamist, rapist, looter, misogynist, and murderer, who in any decent society would be treated as a criminal he was rather then adored by 1,640 millions of Muslims world wide who consider him "the most perfect human being that ever lived" and the "final" prophet for the humanity. Read Koran to see yourself what it teaches the followers of Mohamed:‎

bob m (32)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 8:46 am

I am horrified for these creatures... nice to know their illustrious presences are showing concern; but then I wonder at the willingness to engage seriously the reality of islam itself....starting in England itself by ceasing to pretend that it is something it is not... I wonder if and when congregations of the church of regimental England and their Grannies are left slaughtered tween the pews; if their Royal pompous butts would be moved to seeing the forest for the trees .......This war by definition which islam breathes in and out of like a dragon; is surely one which will have to be met with more than Scouts honour powelisms and 25 soldiers...People are being slaughtered my dear fellow Charles....PEOPLE ....Christians, Hindus, Buddhists,... etc. and NONE of the body of islam really cares ...they are the body of the beast... the fighting horn the spirit of jihad....Yes; SAVE the Elephants and RHINOS... but a much deeper thing must be faced ... WAKE bloody up England withstood the Blitz and liberated the camps; are you now going to be enslaved in lies and mockery for some mixture of delusions at the expense of your children... your enemies LUST at the thought of martyrdom.. every day .. including today .. your blood is a glorious tribute and pleasing thing to their "god".......PRAY for wisdom...Our strenghth is in the Lord.

bob m (32)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 10:15 am
@ Robert... you sir are following after the spirit of islam... you are therefore a liar.

bob m (32)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 12:53 pm

1 John 2:22.. he that denieth the Father and Son is a liar.. he is ANTI Christ.

Connie O (44)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 3:14 pm
This is truly horrible and makes me want to scream. I would much rather see troops being sent to protect these animals, than fighting wars in the middle east!

Connie O (44)
Thursday November 14, 2013, 3:16 pm
Dale O ... I completely agree.

patrica and edw jones (190)
Friday November 15, 2013, 2:28 am
It may almost be too late. This situation has been allowed to spiral out of control. As Bernard Cronyn so vry aptly put it - pressure MUST be put on those countries like China to stop using ivory and turning it into stupid ornaments and decorations. We, on this blog know that the ivory looks best on the elephants. God help save these magnificent creatures.

Lisa b (0)
Friday November 15, 2013, 9:00 am
Thank you to all who have sent me a green star and to answer peoples' doubts here are some links. It is a fact that many true muslims actually make an excellent contribution to society; in the same way that true christians do. However, certain individuals who are not really muslim or christian fabricate lies with their claims and act in inappropriate ways. However this is mainly an article on Islam, the most misunderstood religion. It is a fact that Islam teaches nothing but kindness. To make things clear on issues greatly misunderstood by society please visit these links and read the facts enclosed. You may be surprised by your findings. (beating in The Bible) (beating in Islam) (treatment of animals in Islam) (Muslim vegetarian forum) (Quranic concept of Jihad) (Christians kill muslims in Christian-Muslim battle; please also bear in mind Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and Syria, along with other countries where muslims are killed by non-muslims, or those claiming to be muslim but worship Ali (and thus are NOT muslim) as in Syria. (many things about The Bible you may not know from having sex with young kids to Jihad and much more. I haven't checked these myself; I've simply read the website and provided the link). (a family member of 9/11 victim) You only have to search legitimate sources of the internet to find that the victims and their families want a re-investigation. Also, evidences of explosions in the debris from the towers and a 'practice' event in the early hours of September 11.

I'm not against anyone of any faith; the information above is to try and get you to understand that killing, rape etc happens in many countries worldwide - Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist and so on, performed by many people of different faiths, incl. those who don't have any beliefs in God, whilst at the same time I hope to uncover lies or misunderstandings. I've mentioned Christians killing muslims as this was not mentioned by those who say 'muslims kill' and support The Bible. The websites are NOT my own views but rather the views of the website publishers. I hope this helps. Take care and sorry if 've insulted anyone by the links.

Lisa b (0)
Friday November 15, 2013, 9:14 am
Hi all,

I forgot to mention on my other post, to those who say they want all muslims dead, how can you care about animals if you don't even care about people? Muslims are people and to want them ALL dead is bigotry. You wouldn't blame ALL Jews for murder, ALL Christians for rape and murder - it's exactly the same with Muslims. Some are good (the true believers) and some are bad of each of these believers.

bob m (32)
Friday November 15, 2013, 1:06 pm

The true believers Lisa... nobody wishes death upon any "hu8man being".. but an even skin deep study of islam should convince anyone but a co heir to darkness that "pure islam IS the problem...nothing being PURE about it at all.

bob m (32)
Friday November 15, 2013, 1:12 pm

There is no fellowship tween Light and darkness Lisa... Tween The Lamb of God and the kingdom of antichrist... lies cannot bridge that eternal abyss.

Gillian M (218)
Saturday November 16, 2013, 11:19 am
Lisa, I have been studying Islam for some years and can tell you that you are practising taqqiya which is lying to further the cause of Islam or you may genuinely want to believe it.

In the Koran are 109 statements to call to war/kill the non-Muslim

Of course, there are the odd few laws that Mohammed stole from Judaism which most Muslims ignore. If you think that an Egyptian vet found it easy to speak out about the torture and abuses in his abattoirs then you are mistaken. There is sufficient evidence all over the internet of the abuses by Muslims because they enjoy it and they don't stop with animals! Try these stories for animal abuses.....

I can also provide dozens of stories about how women & girls are treated, both Muslim and non-Muslim, none of them pleasant including the 40 year old paedophile who killed an 8 year old girl on her wedding night....

Obviously, not all Muslims spend their time abusing animals and non-Muslims but they don't speak out against it. I met a few Egyptian zoologists who believed that the welfare of their wild life was important but they told me that they were few in number.

Lisa b (0)
Sunday November 17, 2013, 2:43 am
Hi G,

Thank you for your message. There are loads of incidences where Jews are killing any non-jews and Christians killing Muslims, and people of many faiths committing various crimes, yet you don't mention these cases. Here's some links re. jews: In the torah (old testament) it teaches to stone people to death and other terrible things (take Gaza as an example; do you see jews trying to stop the bloodshed and killing of innocent people? no). Police, charity workers, public, media and all sorts are killed by the hands of jews - Christians and Muslims live together in Gaza and both are killed by them along with people visiting the area. Taqiyyah = to deny faith and do certain illegal and blasphemous acts during risk of persecution and it is only performed in Shi'ia Islam and rarely in Sunni according to Wikipedia ( and as you know there are much more sects than just shi'ia being accused of things. Now, here are some links in regards to Jews and Christians:
Exodus 19:13 'whosoever toucheth the mount shall surely be put to death'
Joshua 7:1-26 for taking accursed things '...And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, ...'
Leviticus 24:16 those that blasphemes the name of God '... he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him'
Deuteronomy 22:23-24 adultery including rape victims who don't scream loud enough '... and ye shall stone them with stones that they die...'
Anyone who is a TRUE animal-lover would be horrified to read the torah encourages the stoning of animals - an ox (or animal) that gores a human.Exodus 21:28 '... then the ox shall be surely stoned'
A woman who is a non-virgin on her wedding night, if proven, shall be stoned to death - Deuteronomy 22:13-21 People who read this will be shocked to find it is indeed the torah that encourages the killings of those who don't follow after their faith (or who worship other gods) NOT Islam encouraging such killings as is accused - Deuteronomy 17:2-5 'if there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... stone them with stones, till they die'. Encouraging the killing of even family members that are not Christian/Jew - Deuteronomy 13:5-10 '... thou shalt stone him with stones that he die'. For disobeying parents - Deuteronomy 21:18-21 '...And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die'.For witches and wizards - Leviticus 20:27 '...shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones:their blood shall be upon them'. Leviticus 20:2 '... he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones'. For breaking the Sabbath- Numbers 15:32-56 '...The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones .... And all the congregation brought him without the camp,and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses'. For cursing God -1Kings 21:10 'Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die'. John 8 about a woman caught in adultery shows that Jesus (pbuh) was opposed to stoning. This thus shows the acts of these Christians and Jews that stone are NOT truly following or obeying the teachings of Jesus. I would also like to mention - churches hand out paper money boxes for people to reconstruct in their homes, to fill with money and send somewhere to fund the murder of civillians incl. babies and children; by sending the Israelis back to Israel. DO YOU REALLY CALL THAT RIGHTEOUS? That is the same as them murdering people themselves to fund peoples' murder. I know this as I used to be Christian and watched God tv who would send me box (I saw sense and discarded it). In Islam completely opposite to your statement above it teaches nothing but kindness to everyone, even animals. Yes,we can self-defence and this is Jihad different to the radical group Jihad;totally unconnected to Islam.WOULD YOU WATCH YOUR FAMILY KILLED AND JUST STAND THERE AND DO NOTHING, OR WOULD YOU SELF DEFENCE AND TRY AND PROTECT THEM? The Islamic Jihad does NOT involve bombings/hijackings and there are certain rulings to it which are: 1) only fight those who fight you first. DO NOT INITIATE IT. Those who are fighting you merely because you are muslim. 2) Fight them at the same level as they fight you. EG. If they fight you lightly; fight them lightly. If they fight you greatly; fight them greatly. If they stop; you also stop. For anything after that is mischief. And Allah does NOT love the mischief makers. Chapter 2 of The Quran makes this clear, and also to do charity. For those who establish prayer and give wages (money) to the poor and do righteous works are the successful ones,and the ones that shall have true happiness in the hereafter. Whilst those who spread mischief throughout the land (not those accused falsely of spreading mischief; but those who actually do spread it) are the ones who shall be amongst the losers in the hereafter. Any goodness that happens to anyone now is merely a sign from Allah, and it will be snatched away from them eventually. People say 'Assad is the victorious' yet these people are not thinking about The Day of Judgement when saying this, or the hereafter, otherwise they would know life is a test and God provides blessings to everyone, good and bad, for a while - the rebels in Syria had blessings before the conflict broke out but the true blessings lie in the hereafter. What's happening in Syria and elsewere is a sign of that for people to reflect on. WOULD YOU REALLY WANT TO LIVE A WHOLE LIFE OF BLESSINGS for them to be taken away by the One who created them, then on The Day to rise up blind and to have eternity in the hell fire, whilst what is happening here now will pass eventually and that wil NEVER pass? I know what I'd rather have; torment here and paradise in the hereafter with full knowledge that it will be everlasting. It teaches in Islam you have to be kind to EVERY ONE and ALL animals with the exception of killing certain animals in a certain way for food. Your not even allowed to commit suicide otherwise your subjected to a great torment (look at Al Bukhari and Muslim; sunnah hadeeths - teachings of the Prophet, SAW) and various places in The Quran; this is even though people simply listen to lies by the media etc on this and other issues about Islam; causing unneccessary hatred toward muslims. P.S The links you provide are NOT based on islamic teachings. Obviously to know what Islam TRULY says you need to read The Quran and Sunnah otherwise it could just be lies about muslims. Take care ps there are vegetarian muslims and the reason I have joined Care2 is because muslims DO talk up;only non-practicing ones do bad. In fact you HAVE to speak up in every case of evil 'Allah curses such and such behaviour' the perpetrator then flees without committing their crime. Hijab and Niqab are excellent for stopping crime as the perpetrator can see the muslim is dressing merely for God and seeing them reminds them of God's punishment if they were to do such a crime.

bob m (32)
Monday November 18, 2013, 7:05 am

Jesus is Lord Lisa; apart from all the mocking, personal unbelief, bitterness, denial, mischief, obfuscation , empty deceitful statistics, lies, manipulations of realities right before your eyes. Islam is a fundamental lie.
Jesus Is the Lamb of God...The alpha and Omega... King of Kings. Way Truth and Life. Son of God.. and a Savior who waits for your welcome to receive you into His Kingdom... He is not a Pedophilic, murdering liar... He is the Jehovah God.. the One who said ...I AM....the One who died at the cross of Calvary for you and I... the Blood Shed for all who will come unto Him... not a mass murderer...nor one who will mock Himself in assisting a Mahdi in hunting down and slaughtering His sheep in the muslim lies , wet dreams of the last days.... God is indeed not mocked Lisa; and you in fact do stand amongst the mockers.... time is short.

Gillian M (218)
Monday November 18, 2013, 12:25 pm
Lisa, not the Old Testament crap again! First of all, the Bible is no longer followed but the Koran is even though it is a hate filled, violent, abusive ideology which goes against the UN Charter of Human Rights.

Try this commentary from the ReligionofPeace

"The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history."

And as for Jews killing people, who? If you are talking about the Bible, don't bother, I have no idea when someone was last stoned to death for adultery but, in any Muslim controlled country, it was probably today or a rape victim was lashed to death, hung or buried alive (honour killing). Do you know the statistics for paeophilia within the family unit? The Koran praises sex with prepubescent boys and sexual abuse for new born baby girls. I can continue, Muslim women & children have no rights, only the father does. He can and does throw acid on them, cut off their noses or ears. He can rape them, beat them to death and there are no comebacks. The treatment of non-Muslims is as bad if not worse. There are at least 20 million slaves in the Muslim controlled Middle Eastern countries with no rights, their owners kill them when they feel like it.

So, if you are trying to tell me that Islam is a good kind religion, absolutely not. he name of this religion, Islam, is derived from the Arabic word "salam," which is often interpreted as meaning "peace." However "submission" would be a better translation. A Muslim is a follower of Islam. "Muslim" is an Arabic word that refers to a person who submits themselves to the will of God. There is no quote in the Koran that points to any peace in Islam although Surah 5:32 is often used, it is actually taken from the Torah and is Mohammed telling Muslims that the Children of the Book (Jews) are to police their own land, Israel.

Gillian M (218)
Monday November 18, 2013, 12:47 pm
Lisa, forgot to mention the 9/11 conspiracy theory. You are joking, right? Or are you suggesting that the passengers on the planes were mistaken and/or deliberately lying?

Also, using sources you haven't verified is unacceptable. Just the link names indicate that they are rubbish.

Lisa b (0)
Monday November 18, 2013, 1:36 pm
It doesn't make sense by your comments @G.M @Bob M as just by looking at the news you can see the violence is directed towards Muslims. Syria where thousands of civilians incl. babies and children are being killed by Assad and his regime - HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY SUPPORT THIS VIOLENCE; EVIL? You say the rebels are the bad ones when they are the ones killed. Iraq and Afghanistan thousands of people killed - HOW MANY OF YOU SUPPORT SUCH VIOLENCE; EVIL? Gaza - thousands of people killed and tortured for years on end; even dogs starved to eat the living people like wild beasts going through the land. HOW MANY OF YOU SUPPORT THIS VIOLENCE AND ANIMAL CRUELTY; EVIL? Egypt - loads of people killed and tortured - HOW MANY OF YOU SUPPORT ALL OF THESE VIOLENCES TOWARDS MUSLIMS AND INNOCENT BABIES AND CHILDREN? and AIDS in Africa; how many of you support that? And the killing of Charles by the police on 7/7 attacks just 'cos of his 'tan and thinking his Arab'. Then the news changes 'because he was acting suspicious'. Then the news changes again,by the witnesses, because he wasn't acting suspicious (wouldn't you run if a gun was pointing at you?) and he was caught and thus could have been arrested NOT killed. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT MUSLIMS WILL GET PUNISHED FOR BEING FALSELY ACCUSED? DO YOU NOT THINK IT WILL BE THE ACCUSERS WHO WILL GET PUNISHED? DO YOU HONESTLY THINK BY JUSTIFYING SUCH BLOODSHED AS MENTIONED ABOVE WILL BE EXCUSED? You're contradicting; you say in one instance that it's muslims killing people. Yet deny it's muslims being killed; when true evidence is shown you deny it and there's even documentaries to prove muslims innocence; and all over the news (look at the events NOT words). If you can't admit this; how can you care about animals? Are you saying God wants violence? And what happens in Muslim countries is to do with the country; not Islam. Is the rape and murders, and other evil acts in Christian countries to do with Christianity, or the countries' laws? it's the same. Back on above subject; how about BBC News documentary where the detainee when released from Guantanoma Bay provided evidence he was in the UK after being accused of being in Afghanistan plotting the attacks (I've tried to look for it again; but cannot find it). @Bob provide proof that Jesus is Lord @G provide proof that The Quran teaches these things you accuse muslims of. You say about rubbish links but you don't provide proof whatsoever at least I provided some. It teaches in The Bible 'the father is greater than the son'. It also teaches in Exodus to not make a likeness of anything 'for thy am a jealous God' indicating that Jesus and God are different, and God should be worshipped alone. Man said 'Jesus is the son of God'. Jesus himself said he is 'the son of man'

Lisa b (0)
Monday November 18, 2013, 1:39 pm
I forgot to mention; it is non-muslims on this forum saying 'curse them all' about muslims; wanting them all dead. That in itself proves it is not muslims. You don't see a single muslim saying that on here

Lisa b (0)
Monday November 18, 2013, 1:43 pm
rape is rape; killing is killing etc. It shouldn't matter which denomination its done by or who its done to. If you're against it; you would also be against the wars which kill and rape done to muslims as well as other people

Stan B (123)
Monday November 18, 2013, 11:14 pm
Lisa Bromley. I see you don't have a profile amongst all the other things you don't have.

Helen Porter (39)
Monday November 18, 2013, 11:16 pm
It seems that the desire to kill is never satiated.

It's as if another two or three demons get trapped inside the murderer each time the act is done.

Lisa b (0)
Tuesday November 19, 2013, 8:25 am
@bob m; you have no right to call anyone a liar or a mocker. And it is your own teaching to say that Muslims are antichrists for we believe Jesus is the Messiah, son of Maryam and a prophet of Allah. We accept him for who he truly is. Would you listen to Jesus' word or the words of the church more? for Jesus himself referred to himself as the son of man in Mark 14:62 (KJV) NOT the son of God: '...And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven' yet you call him 'Lord' and the 'Son of God'; that seems like mockery to me. Matthew 27:46 according to The Bible, Jesus says 'My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?' why would Jesus say 'my God' if he is God himself? John 5:30 'I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me' meaning Jesus lived in the Submission to the will of God (Islamand worshipping one God alone). Yet you say he was a Jew, and that according to Matthew 10:34 KJV 'Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword'. This is belittling Jesus as it's saying he came to spread violence, Allah forbid!. Im not here to argue; I just want to make things clear from The Bible that you have obviously overlooked. It's up to you if you believe what I'm saying or not; but it's a fact. The quotes above prove this.

Lisa b (0)
Tuesday November 19, 2013, 9:12 am
G.M the passengers on the planes died so how can we possibly know what they would say? we need to speak up for them, the other victims (incl. muslims) and the victims' families about the truth. They are definitely verified sources; you only have to look at the news' EVENTS, not WORDS and you can see Muslims are the ones being killed, oppressed and lied about. WORDS can be lies. If you look at the events instead then you should see the medias' words and what is actually happening DO NOT match, and what I said about the O.T is true how can you justify it (you can see them quotes in The Bible)? It's exactly what Muslims are falsely accused of.I will send a link seperate. I'm not trying to argue but its important issues. Sorry if I cause upset to you or anyone.

Lisa b (0)
Tuesday November 19, 2013, 9:35 am
A link on 9/11 on the request of Americans, victims' families, researchers, scientists etc - I found this link through Care2, the exact site you are on so I hope this assures you it is not a 'rubbish link'. I found it by searching '9/11' in the 'search' box above, NOT the 'search news' box. It is difficult to find; so I've also got another link with a petition (now closed) directly on the Care2 site just so you know that it also says about the same issue (wanting a re-investigation) directly on the Care2 site, a site I presume you trust. Thanks!

Lisa b (0)
Tuesday November 19, 2013, 9:55 am
G, I would say "thank you" for informing me on the 'killing of elephants' above; however how can you justify the killing of anyone at all, incl. Muslims and non-muslims if you are against animal' killings? Also, in ALL religions and non-religion, and ALL countries there are animal killings; so I would suggest next time that instead of putting 'muslims' or 'christians' or 'jews', instead of mentioning a person's denomination; for you to just mention about the animals killed so people can still stop it from happening but at the same time you wont be insulting any religion or just giving people an excuse to kill muslims even more. Bear in mind; these are individual people doing this crime and it has nothing to do with a certain religion. What about Muslims, Christians or Jews etc who really care? I'm sure, if you are a true animal lover, you will understand that NO-ONE should do this despicable behaviour to God's creatures; regardless of faith or non-faith. And, no-one should kill anyone or support the killing; as a person also belongs to God. Thanks! P.S: The Quran is only hate-filled because it is greatly misunderstood.

Lisa b (0)
Tuesday November 19, 2013, 10:13 am
Stan, I'm not sure what you are referring to 'from amongst the other things you don't have'. Don't worry, as soon as I've figured how to; I will think about putting a profile. However, it is obvious that what I am saying, in the above comments, are correct. You only have to see the news' events, NOT words. Tip: Question the media's words and look out for the events, esp. in regards to Muslims. By doing this; you should find that the words don't quite match with the events. Obviously, the events shown worldwide can NOT be a lie; it has to be the words, and accusations.

Gillian M (218)
Wednesday November 20, 2013, 4:27 pm
Lisa, first of all please point out when I justified the killing of anyone. I pointed out that Islam does and, if you read anything on the internet, you will note that Muslims do on a regular basis. As I spend a lot of time doing human rights, I can tell you that Muslims are appalling when it comes to human abuses, murder, atrocities, rape, forced conversions, human organ theft, paedophilia etc. All of this information has been regularly presented on care2 and is available on the internet. And, you could ask some of the over 20 million slaves in the Muslim controlled Middle Eastern countries how they feel about it.

Perhaps you should concentrate more on the truth and less on trying to pretend that Islam is a caring religion and trying to defend it.

I have already said all of this but you have chosen to ignore all of my comments, ignored the sources and just repeated yourself making unfounded accusations based on nothing at all that I have said.

As for the reason for this article, a particular group of terrorists are murdering elephants for ivory to fund their terrorist activities. This is poaching on a grand scale. They also have drug gangs for the same purposes.

Talking of which, no, we cannot ask the dead now who were flying the planes, we can only rely on the phone conversations with family & friends as these terrified people told them what was happening.

PS Have you read the Koran? I totally understand it, try to explain to me how this is not vile as an example:

"Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle."

I repeat, this is taqiyya. Islam does not even meet the basic requirement of the UN Charter of Human Rights as confirmed on several occasions by the EU Court of Human Rights. Even moderate Muslims fail to condemn the atrocities perpetrated by far too many Muslims and, by doing so, support them.

Gillian M (218)
Wednesday November 20, 2013, 4:33 pm
Forgot to add the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Middle East during the 1950s is now being followed by the ethnic cleansing of Christians now from the Middle East, Look at the atrocities happening now in countries such as Syria, Egypt, Iraq as well as Africa in countries such as Nigeria, Tanzania, Somalia and Kenya. In fact, Muslims attempted genocide in South Sudan.

Try this list, which is not complete, on attacks just on Christians

This list does not include Jews, Hindus or any other non-Muslim.

Lisa b (0)
Thursday November 21, 2013, 9:59 pm
Beth, I've just happened to notice your comments. In one instance you say 'curse these people they should all be killed immediately like the rest of Al-Qaeda' and then in the next instance your saying about Islam being 'absolutely horrible'. So, you don't think 'cursing people' and wanting them 'all killed' is absolutely horrible? That's the equivelant to committing a mass murder in itself. I don't go merely by certain websites as it sometimes says on the internet that it says things in The Quran; I have checked and it does not say at all. If you were to read The Quran itself and pray to the Creator (without giving the Creator a name) directly to help you to understand its words then you should see it does not teach what you and others claim it teaches; it is pure misunderstanding. Also all over the internet there are fabrications against Muslims, the Prophets (p.b.u.t), Allah and Islam has an whole; and there are NEVER contradictions in The Quran; which anti-muslims have tried to find but have failed to do so up to this day. Say something like this before reading The Quran (translation): 'Dear Creator. Please help me to understand Your words, and to act upon them accordingly, how you have revealed them to me'.

You should never curse people as the curse bounces from the curser to the one that was cursed and back to the curser. In other words, you have just cursed yourself.

Lisa b (0)
Friday November 22, 2013, 9:15 am
Dear G M,

Thank you for your message; in answer to your question: 'please point out when I justified the killing of anyone'. You are one-sided; for instance you say about Muslims killing Jews, which gives a Muslim a false name, but there are two sides to the 'story'. For years, Jews have killed the Palestinians for no just reason other than to take their land. They do ethnic cleansing on a big scale; they not only bomb the Palestinians' homes, kill civilians (incl. babies and children), keep the Palestinians as 'prisoners' in their own country as a way of not letting them escape the bloodshed, starve dogs to eat the Palestinians' body, use phosphorous gas, put curfews on the people, bomb any place of refuge as for the Palestinians not to escape, spray chemicals into the Palestinians' eyes, cut the Palestinians, burn the Palestinians, call the Palestinians' "dogs" or "animals", count them down as they kill them; with the intentions of killing them all, put a checkpoint around Gaza to make the Palestinians' life even harder, drive them over with their tanks, stop the ambulances, stop aid from getting in to the country, when they are pregnant their babies die because they can't get to the hospital in time to give birth due to the checkpoints and the ambulances being stopped, life-support machines being turned off and electric being turned off as an whole, lack of medical supplies/sanitation; they also treat the Palestinians like animals and throw them into small cages, war crimes and much more. People who saw the conflict would know what I'm saying is true. During the conflict they wouldn't even let news reporters enter the country of Gaza as to hide the truth; they only let Israeli' news reporters go in there; who, of course would only show the less damaged areas of Gaza, and Israel itself with such minute damage (the hundreds, or more, of casualties and deaths of Palestinians, incl. little children and babies; with just about 17 deaths in Israel) in itself shows that the Israelis were the most brutal and it was directed merely at innocent civilians. This also shows that muslims don't kill disbelievers merely because of disbelief; but merely through self-defence (otherwise there would have been much more higher casualties/deaths in Israel to what there actually was). The fighting the Palestinians took part in was merely in self-defence to protect theirselves, their homes/land and their family. Self-defence is quite different to 'radical', 'waging war', 'glorifying war' and all these remarks we hear on the news; and from non-muslims. Anyone who is in a terrible situation would self-defence to protect them and their family etc if they could. This is NOT a human right; what was happening for years, and still is happening in Gaza by the hands of the Israelis. So, to me this is justifying the killing of people from a certain denomination. If I act one-sided in my comments, now, it is for you to see both sides, too, as you've only said about Muslims killing people. However, I will be truthful and let you know if I see the other side, too.

I have not ignored your comments, links etc. I even provided links myself and you chose to dismiss them with false claims of me 'trying to defend it'. However, even if I was to ignore your claims what do you expect when you have put about Muslims ''they torture animals to be slaughtered for food for days beforehand often blinding them etc before cutting their throats and leaving them lying on the ground bleeding slowly to death and in great suffering'', and loads of other false things such as throwing dog etc; on one of your earlier comments? Such acts are totally against Islam; and a Muslim would NOT do that, such an animal would NOT even be allowed to be eaten as it is forbidden to treat them with such cruelty - that is NOT halal. During halal; the animal is treated so gently that it sometimes even lies down and relaxes happily, during - and after - its slaughter. I was going to put a link of a video off You Tube how halal is performed. However, the ones I have saw on there are not being performed in accordance to how halal is supposed to be performed (a bit too rough at handling the animal and it being slaughtered in front of the other animals waiting for slaughter). The fact you say that, in itself, proves you don't know Islam and its teachings. There is even encouragement of kindness to animals in The Quran and Sunnah.

And when he goes away, he strives throughout the land to cause corruption therein and destroy crops and animals. And Allah does not like corruption. Al-Baqara, Chapter 2, Verse 205

It is He who sends down rain from the sky; from it is drink and from it is foliage in which you pasture [animals]. An-Nahl, Chapter 16, Verse 10

It is Allah who made for you the grazing animals upon which you ride, and some of them you eat. Ghafir, Chapter 40, Verse 79 being some of the quotes.

Also, I would like to mention; the websites you have provided are all anti-muslim and not actual facts mentioned in The Quran or Hadeeth (compilation of books the Prophet, pbuh, approves of) they are using Quranic quotes but twisting its meaning to suit them and using it has a form of mockery. The Clarion Project as however made clear they are NOT talking about Muslims, but rather extremists, and they have even made a point in writing on the site: "It's important to remember most Muslims are peaceful and do not support terror"; further down the page under the heading: 'disclaimer'.

In regards to the planes; how would you know that the pilot was Muslim? Anyone can say ''I am Muslim''; learn Arabic to speak it; dress up; call themself ''Ibrahim'' or another name - all done in mockery of Islam; however this does NOT make them Muslim. And, there's much evidence to suggest they weren't Muslim; with the original news' stories omitted from the news. You have to be careful of which sources you read; as there's even some lying versions been added to You Tube which say ''the plane had no windows; the tower had no windows''; if you remember the pictures that was on our TV' screens; you would instantly know that these videos are a lie, as people were coming through the windows of the tower, burning.

On to the chapter of the Quran you mention - (v13) explains 'why' the events in (v12) was allowed to be done. It consists of the words 'defied' and 'defies', if you look up the word 'defy' in a dictionary, one of its meanings, is: 'to resist or fight something' so if you were to look at the verse again, along with verses 13-15, you should find it is talking about self-defence again. It's meaning clearly stands out. That Allah will put dread in to the hearts of those who start a battle with the Muslims merely because of their faith in Allah and His Messenger (s.a.w); and that Allah gives the ones who go to battle with the Muslims a severe punishment. (v15) makes it clear again it is self-defence during a battle and that the non-muslims are fighting the Muslims 'when you face THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE MARCHING TO BATTLE, do not turn your backs to them'

On to the countries; I will go through these with you, and when I do, please ask yourself: 'who started the conflict in the first place; and who is fighting who?'. and I think you will find it is NOT Muslims; but rather non-muslims being sent into their country to kill them, and thus cannot be blamed on to Muslims themself.

Syria - this conflict started after Bashar Assad and his regime started attacking the Sunni rebel' areas of the country killing whosoever they could of the Sunni Muslims, and their children merely because they are Muslim. Assad worships Ali and thus is NOT a Muslim for Muslims have to worship Allah alone. I receive mailings of human right groups (Oxfam, Islamic Relief, UNICEF and others) about these conflicts and other things going on in the world, and they have been sending me the bloodied pictures of this conflict; they tell me that it is the worst conflict that has ever been and that even children are not spared, being shot at and abused by the regime.

Assad' troops buried some children and a man alive in Syria -
Burying a man alive trying to get him to worship Assad; merely because he worships Allah and is a Muslim - This makes it clear that it is a war AGAINST MUSLIMS by non-muslims

Egypt - The conflict in Egypt started by non-muslim troops attacking the country; because the government was Muslim and they wanted him down. The troops are now over the country and have been killing many Muslims, invading a mosque and keeping them captive, and arresting people - again a war started AGAINST MUSLIMS by non-muslims.

Iraq and Afghanistan - as you should know these wars started following 9/11 terrorist attacks when America and Britain sent non-muslim troops there to kill Muslims. America claimed they had nucleur weapons but none was found, confirming they were just lied about in an attempt to kill Muslims and manipulate the public against Muslims, an attempt which has worked. Again, a war AGAINST MUSLIMS; by non-muslims.

Nigeria - In yr '10 Christians burnt 100's of Muslims alive and hacked others to death

Tanzania - Yes, it says about a Muslim group setting fire to a cathedral, killing 2 christians and leaving others injured. However, it also says about 200 Christian rioters using teargas in a mosque and a 12-yr-old boy from a Christian school urinating on The Quran. It also says that the Muslim Council comdemns the attacks proving it's nothing to do with Islam/muslims and Muslims worldwide would condemn such an attack. I'll put the rest on a seperate comment as my mom wants her laptop back. As you can see so far though; it's been against muslims, by non-muslims except the last attack where both were in the wrong.

Take care and thanks for reading


Lisa b (0)
Friday November 22, 2013, 7:31 pm
Beth S, the link you provide in an earlier comment, of Religion Of Peace, is a critic of Islam where they get Quranic chapters and twist their meanings. It has no truthes on there about Islam at all.

Lisa b (0)
Sunday November 24, 2013, 7:29 am
Is anyone else having problems submitting their comments? If this sends then this is the first one Iv been able to send for some days, since 22nd November. Iv been trying to send you the rest of that comment G.M

Lisa b (0)
Sunday November 24, 2013, 1:27 pm
Hi G. M,

Continuing from the last comment. Looking back at it you can see it is non-muslims killing muslims; except in Tanzania where both were in the wrong and the Muslim Council as well as all Muslims worldwide condemn it.
Now on to Somalia, Kenya and Sudan -
Christians burn 100s of Muslims, incl children, in a massacre. AGAINST MUSLIMS by non-muslims AGAINST MUSLIMS by non-muslims bear in mind the words 'The assailants targeted Muslims, reportedly killing at least 150, Human Rights Watch said' in the article. proves Muslims/Islam have nothing to do with the radical Jihad and they even speak up against it but their efforts are crippled. They also get threatened themselves by the radical group, and attacked when they refuse to join. (The Islamic Jihad is totally unrelated to any form of terror; it merely means 'to strive and struggle in Allah's cause' and means self-defence during a battle started by the non-muslim in an attempt to kill the muslim merely because of their faith). America prepares to kill muslims. AGAINST MUSLIMS by non-muslims a former marine burned a mosque to avenge U.S troops. However, if you base it on the information on my last comment in regards to Iraq/Afghanistan wars, you would know Muslims are innocent. AGAINST MUSLIMS Christians kill and eat roasted muslims. AGAINST MUSLIMS
We are NOT allowed to kill:
Do not kill a person because Allah has forbidden killing except in the matter of (legal) justice. Quran 6:151
Each soul earns the sins that are made by the person that possesses it. A soul does not earn any sin that is made by another person. Quran 6:164
Some troops that were fighting Muslims have became Muslim due to the Muslims' kindness to them whilst they were fighting them. There's many; but I have listed a few:
Thank u for reading and take care
ps: As I told you I would be honest with you and let you know if I also saw it the other side (eg muslims attacking christians). I thought I'd let you know, yes I have saw plenty of articles where it claims muslims attack Christians, however the ones I have saw also make clear these muslims are from radical groups and as I've discussed above these are NOT muslims. The media does NOT even know about Islam. It is merely conjecture.
'And most of them follow nothing but conjecture. Certainly, conjecture can be of no avail against the truth. Surely, Allah is All-Aware of what they do'. Yunus, Chapter 10, Verse 36 and many other places in The Quran.
Look at the sites links that you provided and you should see words such as 'critics'; 'humour' both of which mean nothing but mockery and lies. ''present their stories in a humorous manner''.
The fact they use muslims' names to make a mockery of them also proves they are mocking. ''Yes, this Muslim has “ham” in his name. The irony is quite delicious''. under the name ''Your Daily Muslim: Bassam Hamzy''
Wikipedia on ''some critics of Islam have adopted the phrase, using the term "Religion of Peace" in a sarcastic manner''
It's up to you if you want to deny what I say but every thing I say is fact-based only, and I hope everything I have said has proved it. It talks about mockery in The Quran loads of times; I have only provided one of these quotes:
''And if you ask them, they will surely say, "We were only conversing and playing." Say, "Is it Allah and His verses and His Messenger that you were mocking?" ' Quran At-Taubah, Chapter 9, Verse 65


Gillian M (218)
Tuesday November 26, 2013, 11:50 am
Lisa, I repeat, taqqiya, lies to further the cause of Islam, something you are not denying nor can you.

This is not the place to debate Hamas's abuses of their own people, the lies that they teach through tv or through books. The rockets that they send into Israel on a regular basis, the children, pregnant women or mentally challenged that they use for suicide bombings or the stones that they throw to cause accidents to kill Israelis.

The lies that you are repeating are nothing to do with the article about the group of Muslims killing elephants to take their tusks to sell for arms.

As for animal welfare, I have pointed out the lies that you are repeating and have shown that you are talking taqqiya. You consistently ignore what is said and what is shown to you as the truth.

As for thereligionofpeace,, the truth is not a lie just because your choose to make it so. Are you telling me that the Koran, which is what they are quoting, is wrong? Are you telling us honestly that Mohammed didn't attack a Jewish tribe whilst under a flag of truce killing all of the males before raping a 17 year old Jewish girl within half an hour of her seeing her father and husband killed? That he married a 6 year old girl, Aisa, after sexually abusing her then raping her at 9 years old? Or are you so ashamed of a bandit who has 109 quotes in the Koran, and other religious books, to kill the kafir?


Lisa b (0)
Tuesday November 26, 2013, 2:32 pm
yes I am denying it because what I tell you is nothing but truth. Obviously God knows better than a person, any person, so instead of listening to the lies of these sites that just mock Islam and Muslims; why don't you pray to God directly as the Creator? There are many people out there who felt the same as you do and they were Christian but then they became Muslim after realising they were told nothing but lies by their church etc about Islam.

As for Gaza; it is the Israelis attacking Muslims.

Lisa b (0)
Tuesday November 26, 2013, 2:37 pm
G M provide a single quote from the Quran where it says to kill a kafir please. If you're referring to Infidel it means those who cause mischief to the Muslim and thus is self defence. No where does it say to kill a disbeliever apart from in self defence only

Lisa b (0)
Tuesday November 26, 2013, 2:41 pm
The reason why there's no peace in the world is bigotry towards muslims. You know the Palestinians are suffering at the hands of the Jews and muslims worldwide are suffering yet you don't show any mercy whatsoever. That is not a human right.If you have a heart be truthful.

Lisa b (0)
Wednesday November 27, 2013, 2:51 am
I need to repeat again; is using Quranic chapters and then twisting their meanings to a meaning that suits them. Of course the Quran is true but what this site is telling you is from their own understanding of The Quran and thus the Quran does not teach it. 'infidel' in the Quran means 'those who cause mischief, mockery, oppression'. It is thus not basing it merely on a kafir -it even makes clear that as a Muslim if we see someone about to commit a crime then we should go up to that person, covered, and say to them 'Allah curses such and such an act', that person then flees feeling dread of Allah and thus does NOT commit such a crime. That's the only terror a Muslim brings to someone's life and it does NOT involve killing at all. Also, bear in mind it is not done to someone merely based on disbelief; but rather mischief. Where it says about the trees and stones with a Jew hiding behind it; will speak to the Muslim and say 'a Jew is hiding behind me so kill him', it is talking about the Jews killing the Muslims during battle and the trees/stones will communicate with the Muslim in such a way to save their lives as otherwise the Jew will kill them. So again it is talking about the Jews killing Muslims and a blessing from Allah to help the Muslims. I have put some quotes on my next comment

Lisa b (0)
Wednesday November 27, 2013, 5:35 am
Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #109)

Says that many Christians and Jews (people of the book, aka people of the scripture; when the truth about Islam comes to them) attempt to make the Muslim turn away from Islam; out of jealousy. And Allah is commanding Muslims to forgive them. This proves in itself we have to be kind to Kafir.

By the way; Kafir has 2 meanings - 'disbelief' and 'coverer'. So not everyone who is kafir; is a disbeliever. Allah is kafir because He covers His peoples' sins.

And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein; and the Wrath and the Curse of Allah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him.

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #93)

Makes clear it is those who intentionally oppress a believer (Muslim) who receive the wrath of Allah. Again it proves it is NOT merely on disbelief, but rather based on mischief.

Saheeh Muslim 41 book 6984 Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.

It says 'THE JEWS WILL FIGHT AGAINST YOU' proving it is the Jews killing the Muslims. 'AND YOU WILL GAIN VICTORY OVER THEM...' proving it is merely a blessing from Allah for the stone to speak.

Muslims don't go by all hadeeths as some are fabrications against the Prophet (s.a.w) and thus have been graded. That's why you will find more than one hadeeth which say different things on the same topic.

Ibn Mas`ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, "A true believer is not involved in taunting, or frequently cursing (others) or in indecency or abusing.''

Proves Muslims cannot possibly do the things you are accusing them of; otherwise they wouldn't be Muslim. So, if people do these acts, they are NOT genuine Muslims.

`Imran bin Husain (May Allah be pleased with him) said: We were with the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) on a journey and there was a woman from the Ansar riding a she-camel. She abused and invoked curse upon it. The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) heard it and said, "Off load the she-camel and set it free because it has been cursed.''

Cursing/abusing an animal is forbidden; whilst kindness to animals is permitted.

"O you who believe! keep your duty to Allah and speak straight, true words." (Holy Quran 33:70)

"O you who believe, keep your duty to Allah, and be with the truthful people." (9:119)

"Be maintainers of justice and bearers of true witness for Allah, even if it (the truth) goes against your own selves or parents or relatives or someone who is rich or poor." (4:135)

Proves we have to be truthful even if truthfulness goes against us or relatives - so taqiyyah can NOT possibly be a part of Islam, as that involves lying.

"You cannot attain to righteousness unless you spend (in charity) out of those things which you love." (3:91)

"They (the true believers) give food, out of love for Allah, to the poor, the orphan and the slave, saying: We feed you only for Allah's pleasure - we desire from you neither reward nor thanks." (76:8-9)

"Do no favour seeking gain." (74:6)

Proves we have to spread charity to people, merely for the sake of Allah, and not expecting any worldly reward. Bear in mind it does NOT state anywhere in this text about not giving to kafirs. This shows that Muslims are instructed by Allah to give to anyone, regardless of faith, race etc. It also proves we should give up the things we love, to help others.

"Pardon (people) and overlook (their faults). Don't you love that Allah should forgive you." (24:22)

"(The dutiful are) . . . those who restrain their anger and pardon people. Allah loves those who do good to others." (3:134)

"Whenever they (true believers) are angry they forgive." (42:37)
"The recompense of evil is punishment like it. But whoever forgives (an evil committed against himself) and amends (matters), his reward is with Allah. . . . Whoever is patient and forgives, that is a matter of great resolution." (42:40, 43)

When the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) defeated his enemies in Makka and returned to that city as its conqueror, he forgave them in the following words:

"No reproof be against you this day; Allah may forgive you, and He is the most Merciful of those who show mercy." (12:92)

proves we should forgive 'people' and not show anger. It also shows we should be patient when calamity strikes us. Again, it does not say about kafirs. Meaning Allah's kindness is also directed towards them, and He commands us to be kind to - and forgive - them also. 'defeated' means 'having been beaten in a battle or other contest' and it was during a battle where the enemies were fighting with the Prophet (s.a.w) to kill him, not the other way round.

"Allah commands you to uphold justice and to do good to others and to give to the relatives." (16:90)

Three degrees of doing good are mentioned here: "justice," which means returning any good that someone has done you with equal good; "do good to others," which means taking the initiative in doing good to others; and "give to the relatives," which means doing good to people instinctively and naturally just as one does good to one's close relatives.

"Do good to others, surely Allah loves those who do good to others." (2:195)

Again, goodness is commanded by Allah; even towards the kafir, even to such a point that the Muslim treats them like a relative, where the goodness comes naturally and instinctively.

O you who believe! do not enter houses other than your own until you have asked permission and greeted the inmates . . . and if it is said to you, 'Go back', then go back." (24:27-28)

"O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion (against others), for surely suspicion in some cases is sin; and do not spy (into other people's affairs), nor let some of you backbite others." (49:12)

"When you are greeted with a greeting, greet with one better than it, or return it (in the same terms at least)." (4:86)

Shows we should show unlimited respect; again also towards the kafir, and every one regardless of faith, race etc. It also shows we should give an equal or better charity to the one we receive, and we should not backbite.

"The truthful men and the truthful women, the patient men and the patient women, the humble men and the humble women, the charitable men and the charitable women, the fasting men and the fasting women, the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard their chastity, the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember Allah much - for all these Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward." (33:35)

Mentions acts of charity that if a person does; Allah will forgive and grant a great reward (eg. Paradise).

"There is no animal in the earth, nor a bird flying on its two wings, but they are communities like yourselves (O people)." (6:38)

Someone asked the Holy Prophet (s.a.w), "Is there a reward for us (from Allah) for doing good to beasts?" He replied:

"In every animal having a liver fresh with life there is a reward." (Holy Prophet (s.a.w) in Mishkat.)

"Be careful of your duty to Allah in the matter of dumb animals; ride them while they are in a fit condition, and eat them while they are in a fit condition." (Holy Prophet (s.a.w) in Abu Dawud.)

"Whoever tills a field, and birds and beasts eat from it, it is an act of charity." (Holy Prophet (s.a.w) in Musnad of Ahmad.)

Proves kindness to animals is a blessed act and cruelty to animals is a cursed act. It also proves that if a Muslim plants a seed and it grows into a tree (for instance) and either people or animals were to devour from it then the tiller and the person who bought the seeds, will both get rewarded for it, as they both provided for the animals/people from that tree.

"The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) and his Companions used to forgive the idolaters and the followers of the book (Jews and Christians), as Allah had commanded them, and they used to show patience on hearing hurtful words." (Report in Bukhari.)

This one is most apparent of all; that Muslims should show kindness, patience and forgiveness to the kafirs when they say hurtful words to the Muslims.

There are many more too that show charity/kindness towards even disbelievers; and towards animals, and also to be truthful, but the list is too long.

Wednesday November 27, 2013, 6:03 am
Lisa Bromley; unusual name for a Mullah, is it not?

Lisa b (0)
Wednesday November 27, 2013, 10:33 am
Not really, Bernard. There's many Muslims you probably walk passed every day and you wouldn't even know they are Muslim.

Some change their name to an Islamic name; others just keep their name the same. And, some who change it only use their new name in certain situations; and use their old name all other times.

Here are some, out of many, famous people who have became Muslim: Jermaine Jackson, Michael Jackson (changed his name to Mikael), Janet Jackson

There's may other people too not even in the Jackson family. I'm not sure if Janet still has the same nam that's why I'm saying.


Lisa b (0)
Wednesday November 27, 2013, 10:38 am
sorry about the spelling. My mom's keyboard missed the letter out - it should have read ' there's many other people too not even in the Jackson family. I'm not sure if Janet still has the same name that's why I'm saying'.

Lisa b (0)
Thursday November 28, 2013, 5:32 am
Hi G,

I just came across the article you are basing this petition on; in the Daily Mail.

and not once does it state that it was done by Muslms; you cannot say every act of terror in the world is done by Muslims. It says in the 'article 'Al-Shabaab' and 'Al-Qaeda'; if these were based on Islamic teachings then wouldn't it mention these two organizations in The Quran, or the hadith? After all these are the sources ALL Muslims go by, even the most religious and knowledgeble Muslims (sheikhs aka scholars). Look all the way through The Quran and hadith and not even once will you find it.

Take care,
ps: I will sign your petition as I don't believe this should happen to animals in any instance; however, I would be grateful for you to at least change the heading of the petition from 'Muslims' to 'terrorists' so it matches the news' article, and for you to at least pray to God directly as the Creator to help you understand what He wants (whatever way that is) and to follow the way He leads you to, as I can truly see you don't know what Islam is and your going by sites which are there just to mock/lie.

Lisa b (0)
Thursday November 28, 2013, 6:31 am
Here's another site also, with a news' article, on the above subject; which doesn't say 'Muslim' or anything connected to Islam at all on the article; just using the same words as in the other article -

Strangely, this article (date Aug '09) says about '38,000' elephants being killed in Africa as well but doesn't even mention 'terrorism' at all in this one; but rather 'trinkets and ivory carvings'. ''One team of scientists argues that, today, about 38,000 elephants across sub-Saharan Africa are dying annually at the hands of poachers to feed the growing demand for ivory carvings and trinkets in eastern Asia''.
I don't believe in coincidence; so which is correct - The Daily Mail and and some anti-islam sites, not mentioned here (funding Al-Qaeda) or BBC, and maybe others (ivory carvings and trinkets)?.

Also, Muslim leaders are very religious Muslims, and definitely practising, and there's a petition on Care2 which states 'Christian, Muslim and Hindu religious leaders unite to help stop slaughter of elephants, rhinos'
This not only proves again that Muslims do work alongside kafirs (disbelievers) to change the world for the best, but it also proves that they do speak up for animals, and get on well with kafirs (where there's no bigotry/mischief involved) again, the opposite to what Muslims and Islam are being accused of. I would also like to mention that not even once in the article does it state that Muslims kill these animals, or any animals. However, it does mention 'Catholics and Buddhists' killing them. ''The significance of religious icons was underscored by National Geographic magazine, which in its October issue traced how Catholics in the Philippines and Buddhists in Thailand make up part of the demand for ivory''. I haven't watched the video on the link, so I'm not sure what that says.

I couldn't see a petition on your article above.
Take care

Lisa b (0)
Thursday November 28, 2013, 7:09 am
I forgot to mention; some hadeeths are fabrications done by people against the Prophet (s.a.w) so its better to just look in The Quran instead. However, although there may still be some fabrications in them, Muslim and Saheeh Bukhari are the stronger hadeeth (saheeh means authentic).

DaleLovesOttawa O (198)
Tuesday December 24, 2013, 10:57 pm
Interesting, there is little discussion on the fate of the elephants and poaching in general. Also, there are quite a number of non-Muslims involved in poaching various animals around the world. But, I guess some just want to jump on the every and any Muslim is automatically suspect bandwagon.
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