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Organizing to Stop Far Right Violence


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: barack obama, frank schaeffer, republican party, Eric Holder, Attorney General, Far-Right Fundamentalism, Hate Crimes, Hate Speech, Thomas Friedman, Yitzhak Rabin, politics, glenn beck, rush limbaugh, fox news, birthers, death panels, tea party )

Marion
- 1905 days ago - huffingtonpost.com
As a former right wing leader, who many years ago came to my senses and began to try to undo the harm the movement of religious extremism I helped build has done, I've been telling the media that we're facing a dangerous time in our history.



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Comments

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 2:41 pm
Since President Obama took office I've felt like the lonely -- maybe crazy -- proverbial canary in the coal mine. As a former right wing leader, who many years ago came to my senses and began to try to undo the harm the movement of religious extremism I helped build has done, I've been telling the media that we're facing a dangerous time in our history. A fringe element of the far right Republican Party seems it believes it has a license to incite threatening behavior in the name of God.

They have singled out President Obama as their target. Since the real President Obama is not who they describe -- no, he's not the Antichrist, was born in America and doesn't want to kill your grandmother -- they have resorted to lies and intimidation to try and stop his agenda of much needed change. The problem is that I believe that Religious Right leaders and their Republican base are also potentially inciting violence. Within their numbers are unhinged people who also happen to be well armed.

Rachel Maddow and the readers of Huffington Post and Alternet have heard my warnings and so have a lot of bloggers. However, most of the media have ignored the looming threat of far right violence while conservatives deride those of us who link crazy talk to the potential of crazy actions. (I explain and expose the link between evangelical/fundamentalist "End Times" theology, politics and violence in my new book Patience With God: Faith For People Who Don't Like Religion (Or Atheism).

Has The Craziness Hit A New High?

What a difference the post-election months of overt thuggery, threatening behavior and outright lying by the right wing horde has made. The village idiot quality of the "Tea Baggers," "Birthers," gun totters, "You Lie(ers)," and the "Let's Secede From The Union(ers)" has made it tougher to discount we who see a looming threat here and a direct line from hate talk to hate actions. It's harder these days to feel sanguine about our prospects for avoiding the calamity spewing from the right's vortex of lies and hate.

The extremism and paranoid delusions of the far, far loony right -- in other words The Republican Party today as led and deformed by Beck/Limbaugh/Fox and the fundamentalist "Christians" --- is now on full display. Even some members of the Republican leadership are beginning to cringe.

Last week Senator Lindsey Graham called Glenn Beck a "cynic" and the Birthers "crazy." Centrists like David Gergen are saying that enough is enough. Gergen said that the racial attacks on Obama are reminiscent of the atmosphere leading to the killing of President Lincoln. Speaking for moderate progressives Thomas Friedman wrote in the New York Times that he saw this same disturbing play of religious hate shortly before Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated in Israel. And Roger Ebert warned of the rise of the fringe in the GOP and how they are undermining democracy.

And in case you didn't know that the far right, big time hate machine and big time religion link up these days consider this: the giant Evangelical publisher Zondervan is crashing out Sarah Palin's memoir. Zondervan is owned by Rupert Murdoch. No, it's not a conspiracy, it's just that all the bottom dwellers eventually find each other in Crazyland.

Other people, besides former evangelicals like me (who have their ear to the ground and hear what's coming before the uninitiated do), are finally starting to realize that there is a serious problem facing America. I'm no longer one of just a few voices (for instance like Max Blumenthal and Jeff Sharlet) saying that the willfully ignorant far Right (usually religion-inspired) is risking our future.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 2:43 pm
The question is: What are we going to do about the haters?

Now some of us -- from moderate Independent voters like me to many people on the progressive side of the Democratic Party -- are organizing to do something about this evil (yes I use that word deliberately) trend. We're doing this because more and more of us see that if unchecked the inflammatory garbage spewing from the Right's hate machines will result in tragedy -- in other words violence.

I started pondering the question of what we could do right after the assassination of Dr. Tiller by a religious extremist. I felt that it wasn't enough to call for boycotts of right wing commentators who spew their hate, because that did not really address the core problems. In fact as a former right wing religious "pro-life" leader I felt compelled to publicly apologize (in the Huffington Post) for the "America-is-like-Nazi-Germany" rhetoric that my late Evangelical leader father and I helped create in the 1970s and 80s that inexorably led to justifying violence in the Tiller case.

Now I want to endorse a campaign to address these issues.

It was launched last week at

http://www.StopDomesticTerror.com

The campaign includes letters from attorney Kevin Zeese and myself to Attorney General Eric Holder asking that he take the issue of domestic terror seriously by investigating and prosecuting threats and acts of violence. I'm working with others on a campaign to reach religious leaders who enable and encourage this violence, and asking for the launching of investigations into the use of the media and web organizations by the right wing to foment violence. It is time to combat hate speech.

We have a long horrible legacy of violence against public figures. The worst chapters in our history have been written in blood by extremists when they felled our moral and political leaders. We must act now to avert another tragedy.

Sign on to our campaign at www.StopDomesticTerror.com.

Thousands have already signed on but we can only make a change through massive collective action. Join us and help build a wall of tolerance to contain the hate.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 2:44 pm
Here's the link:

http://www.stopdomesticterror.com/
 

Nancy L. (141)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 2:59 pm
Who decides who the haters are?

 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:04 pm
Thank You for signing on.

Thanks Marion..It is done

Big goirlly Hugs
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:20 pm
"Other people, besides former evangelicals like me (who have their ear to the ground and hear what's coming before the uninitiated do), are finally starting to realize that there is a serious problem facing America. I'm no longer one of just a few voices (for instance like Max Blumenthal and Jeff Sharlet) saying that the willfully ignorant far Right (usually religion-inspired) is risking our future."

Thank you Gorilly Girl! As Schaeffer says it above, the right is risking our future. We don't have to sit by and watch them crash America.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:20 pm
Thanks Marion. Signed and forwarded to everyone I know.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:23 pm
Thanks a bunch, Marshall!
 

Nancy M. (202)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:25 pm
Thanks Marion. I to have forwarded this. It is really important to point out that political violence is bad, no matter which side is being violent.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:26 pm
Thank you, Nancy!! Good point about it doesn't matter which side is violent. However, it seems to be coming from the right at this time.
 

Yvonne White (233)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:37 pm
Thanks Marion - I think the article shows what happens when Main-Stream-Media feeds the Trolls!;)
 

Pete Conrads (91)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:46 pm
Thank you Marion, as we have spoken together before, we are indeed in uncertain times..... The Extreme Right has their very own private army of mercs; fundamentalist Erik Pr*nce's Bl*ckw*ter to do "what-ever,' ---Northcom has a battalion for use on US soil. :o(
We must stay positive, we must stand resolute, and not let the hate spread and infect us as well. I have of course joined - Peace love and laughter to all
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:52 pm
Thanks for jumping on this, Yvonne!!

Specifically, we are taking the following steps to address this dangerous trend toward extremism.

1. Urge the Department of Justice to:

* study this trend toward the encouragement of violent lawlessness and initiate action to counter it,
* investigate and prosecute those who are committing and inciting others to commit acts of violence,
* review whether any media groups are violating antitrust laws by monopolizing media or media
markets, or failing in their obligation to meet the "public interest" of their FCC broadcast licenses.
* support an update and study by the FCC and NTIA of the 1993 report, "The Role of
Telecommunications in Hate Crimes."
* Conduct an investigation into the rise of extremism and violence and the role of the media in this
phenomenon

2. Urge Congress to hold hearings on the responsibility of the licensed broadcast media to conduct itself in the public interest

3. Support legislation to require diversity in media ownership, encourage broader minority ownership of FCC licensed media outlets, and that otherwise reverses the dangerous trend of media monopolies allowed following the passage of Bill Clinton's Telecommunications Act of 1996.

4. We are calling on the CEOs and Boards of media organizations to denounce and remove hosts, commentators and others who use the media to incite violence and spread lies that lead others to violence.

5. We are calling on advertisers to cancel all ads on any media that uses the airwaves to spread a message of hate, intolerance, racism, lies and violence.

6. We are calling on religious leaders to denounce all forms of intimidation and violence, and to cooperate with the Department of Justice by reporting information about those who intend to commit violence.

7. We are working with leaders in the religious community who have taken a stand against violence, such as Frank Schaeffer, who was one of the architects of the Religious Right. Mr. Schaeffer, who will be promoting this campaign, has written a letter to Eric Holder offering his cooperation and insight into this trend toward violence and offering suggestions on how to address it.

8. We are supporting the efforts of other organizations that are addressing various aspects of this campaign, such as www.colorofchange.org, www.mediamatters.org, www.shockjock.org, www.rightwingwatch.org, www.splcenter.org, www.nhmc.org., suewilsonreports.com, www.alternet.org, www.freepress.net, www.thinkprogress.org, www.americanprogress.org, www.latinosagainsthatespeech.org, www.adl.org.

http://www.stopdomesticterror.com/
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:01 pm
Pete...Thank you for joining in. Yes, we have spoken on this before. The hate is rising because they are scared they have lost control and now willing to pull out all stops. The right wing is no longer the conservatives of the Republican Party. The conservatives have abandoned the ship and allowed the fringers to take control, which is: birthers, deathers and those willing to believe the lies. Surprisingly, the conservatives of the party who would speak out against the hate are actually planning to become democrats, independents, progressives or greens, rather than stay with a sinking ship.
 

Tierney G. (383)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:02 pm
I signed I am so sick of the violence the arguing the fighting and lies.
Thank you so much Marion
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:06 pm
Thank you, Tierney! You know I feel the same as you.
 

John R. (56)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:25 pm
Signed and forwarded. Thanks Marion.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:30 pm
I don't think so Marion. I think they will be taking back the Republican party.
 

. (0)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:34 pm
NE the problem is not who decides.
The problem is what "they" determine to be a troll.which is an average person with a different view.
And they can not legitmately argue their points.
Mainly because it unfactual and leans so far to their own politically ideologies there is obvious no truth in it.
I will be doing some real research on this guy to see who he actually is.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:38 pm
That is what I was hinting at LL. Some view any dissent at all as hate mongering. What in fact is opinion is often viewed as hate speech. AND, it comes from both sides depending on which party is in power at the time.
 

Jane R. (10)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:51 pm
thanks marion it is done with pleasure !
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:56 pm
The Last Time Right-Wing Hatred Ran Wild Like This a President Was Killed
 

Roy M. (339)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:02 pm
Signed up! Thank You Marion. I feel we was stop our wars also. Enough violence for one world! Peace, Love and Hugs:)
 

Betsy Bee (1041)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:04 pm
MJM, please do not say things like that. Marion, thank you for the article, I will e-mail and write the Department of Justice for snail mail too.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:15 pm
John, Jane, Roy and Bee Hive Lady...

Thank you all for signing to this campaign! This is about peace, stability and democracy.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:35 pm
Bee Hive Lady...Thank you for your concern. I know it seems scary to see a post like MJMs linking to an article about a president being assassinated, but I think it is appropriate to this topic. This is exactly what we are trying to avoid: a nutcase possibly trying to kill the president, as well as other violent, domestic terrorist actions.

MJM...Thank you for your post. It's timely.

You both are my friends, and we are all on the same side of peace. Love you both!
 

Robert S. (115)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:45 pm
My pleasure to have signed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/#33217296
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 7:15 pm
Thanks Robert. I forgot about this.

Countdown
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 7:22 pm
Robert...Thank you for posting Olbermann's special comment on health care reform. The battle to prevent health care reform has an indirect path to the far right violence we are trying to stop.

I highly recommend everyone view this video. It is not a discussion on health care reform as it is an impassioned talk about pain, life and death due to a lack of health care.
 

Sir Walk F. (124)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 7:38 pm
SFW's 2 cents:

i think the left has bigger problems than the minority of the lunatic fringe.

Let's focus on pressuring the Democrats to live up to their promises, instead of fretting about the Right Wing Zealots screaming for attention.

Single Payer.

And end to the war on terror, and total removal from Iraq.

Lifting dont ask dont tell.

Closing gitmo.

etc.

Thanks Marion!
 

Marion Y. (322)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 7:43 pm
SFW...thanks for your 2 cents.
 

Bette M. (91)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 9:43 pm
they have resorted to lies and intimidation to try and stop his agenda of much needed change. The problem is that I believe that Religious Right leaders and their Republican base are also potentially inciting violence. Within their numbers are unhinged people who also happen to be well armed.

What agenda(s)?
What violence? Where?.........Chicago Southside?
Well armed?........Chicago gangs?

Also, religion of all faiths have been the root of wars
and violence since before Christ.

Social upheavals have always been for all the
reasons mans has thought up in his greed for
and need for power.

Plant trees for life........................
 

Bette M. (91)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 10:20 pm
I, as others have done here ask questions, made comments
from what I've read..............Interpretations of what one reads
is the same as in ones interpretation of appearance.

Nothing more......

Freedom of speech reigns....... & is guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.

We all need the trees in order to breath.........
 

Rod Gesner (66)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 10:45 pm
We All Need Room To Grow and Evolve To;

Those that Condemn New Life;
and the Posibility of Evolution to True equality for all...
..Thru Thier Hatefilled Reactionary Attitudes;
Deserve to Be Answered and held accountable;

Even If they Hide in the TREES...

My Apploogies to Marion;

I felt the need to answer as I have Seen the Bigoted Spew...
.. From this Source TOO Many Times..
Anti Population Attitudes,
With Bigoted Racist Roots;
are NO Better than Hitlers Eugenics and Genocide,
and Should Be Given Less Tolerance Today...
.as We Should have Learned From The Mistakes of Past Avoidance and Denial.

I have not signed yet as I feel that this is a Complex Issue and I should research the Links before I sign...
 

Bette M. (91)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 11:07 pm
Man has been trying to learn from past beliefs,
behaviors, social & political leanings for so
long it seems to be almost a lost cause.

And to resist making a comment on any one
area of social, political affairs is as tempting
as it is not.........

Opinions are based on ones personal perception
of not only this topic here but all the entertwining
categories of life experiences tied into the subject
being discussed.

Plant trees for life................
 

Pastor Tim Redfern (581)
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 11:33 pm
Thank You for signing on.

Will you please support our campaign with a donation?


I can't do the donation thing at the moment,
but I've happily signed the letter. Thank you
kindly, Marion! :-)
noted.
 

chris b. (2474)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:48 am
Well that's stirred up the hornets nest again! Good on yer Marion much sense and balnced comment have you injected ito this and similar debate! I do hope those that have hijacked various religions for there own agendas will perhaps realise that their motives are being exposed!
 

Marty H. (119)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:26 am
I have signed, thanks Marion. I fully understand the difference between freedom of speech and abuse. I don't think it takes a lot of intelligence to understand that. I fully support our Constitution but I do not support people who can not get past skin color, sexuality, etc.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:15 am
Rod, Pastor Tim, Chris and Marty ~ Thank you all for your comments and support! Watching the cable news shows yesterday and this morning, it appears some of the charged rhetoric seems to have dropped a bit. I believe our efforts are making a difference already. At least those who are inciting violence and telling lies know we're not going to take this lying down.

Tim ~ Donation not required to sign the petition. I'm glad you mentioned this because I don't want anyone to ever feel they need to donate to something I endorse or anyone else's cause. I did not donate either as I am on a set income.
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:26 am
Yeah I couldnt dontate either.....I have too many other things on me plate...

Big gOirlly Hugs
 

Annie J. (205)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:17 am
Thanks Marion, gladly signed on.......
 

. (1)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:19 am
Signed and noted. Our news channels are so full of hate, violence, bigotry, and those that seem totally crazed, insane, and just looking for a reason to lash out at anyone they can. Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, and many more, including some of the GOP are not only condoning this kind of behavior, they are instigating and urging it on!!! We try and think that at least we don't have a "war" here in our nation! Bull! YES we do! Just look around, it sits right in your own back yard. The massive number of youth in gangs, killing innocent kids, those that decide to be "anarchists", and pull away from our government, our nation, those like David Karesh, and the Waco, TX nightmare, they are all over, just waiting to reek havoc. What about the news full of murder/suicides among families now? Those that set fires in California, that has just devastated that entire state. What about the drug cartel from Mexico? They would just as soon kill someone right here on our border and beyond than to look at them. No one is safe against them, not even border patrols, the armed forces, law enforcement, and innocent people. What about those who are making their own home made bombs from sites they find on the internet? Then we have those that would are so right winged, they arm themselves with automatic weapons, going into our schools, our churches, our malls, and killing anyone in sight. How can anyone that claims to be American give more ammunition with their own hate mongering influence like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin, and so many more that get those already on the edge of lunacy more fuel with their biased and hate talking mouths? They are not the Americans I know or want to know. We are no longer fighting terrorism, hate, gangs, drugs, those that wage war in the name of "God" somewhere in a foreign land. They are right here, waiting to harm whomever they can. It is a very frightening time in this nation, and my fear it that it will get much worse before getting better. Many of them use President Obama as a scapegoat for their behavior. Sometimes I don't think it has to do with the color of his skin, or his beliefs... it is more about them finding someone or something else for an excuse to wag their tongues, and cause dismay in our country.
 

. (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:19 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to B. because you have done so within the last week

If I could you a million stars for those comments i would BM.
Those are great points to make concerning Religion of any type,not just Christianity.
Violence has nothing to do with one's religion,it is merely an excuse.Even without religion people would still find an excuse to fight about.It is a part of human nature.The only real way to address violence is to acknowledge that ascept of our nature as much as we do our abilities for love,compassion and bravery.

To blame an excuse does not solve a problem.
To blame only one side does not solve any problems.
To lump everyone together on the Right for the actions of a fundamentalist few will not solvce anything and only furthers gaps and divides in this country.
it would be very easy for me to say that "Well everyone on the Left are like those G-20 Anarchist".
Wh defintely showed their ability to commit violent acts.
While Protesters on the right are walking around with Guns (which is their right under the constitution) the Anarchist are actually causing violence by throwing bricks into business,vandalizing cars and even using dumpsters as battering rams.
BUT I know better then throw all the G-20 protesters into a the same group as these hooligans/fundamentalist.That was simple not the case.Not all the protesters were out there to do such things and were peaceful protesting their cause only to get dragged into a violent situation by these other people.
The week before the Right held a huge protest,carring guns and all, and their was NO violence acted out by anyone.
So this whole the "Right is violent" thing holds no weight whats so ever.
and the Left's constant pratice of labeling anyone that even slightly disagree with them as a Right winger etc... shows a real lack of practicing what they preach.
Not all Leftys are like that like by the way.
You can not blame one person or one group for anything.
We are all capable of horrible acts.

I would really like to hear more about the Anti-Population theroy that Rod gesner was talking about.But not sure if this is the right thread.Seriously,it has peaked my interest Rod.If you have any time could you send me a link maybe thru an introduction.i would appreciate it.
 

chris b. (2474)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:29 am
Violence of course takes many forms not just physically bashing someone! Marion I too sometimes get carried away withe the proverbial exuberance of my own verbosity! I come down to earth pdq when the brain overheat light starts flashing! Oh yes, even my 3 cell brain warms at times! Iave even been known to go back into teacher mode on occasions. Well it makes a change from truck driver or retired lunatic! A common thread would appear to be the cash stappedness of the passionate and useful members of socity and the over abundance of material riches of the proponents of fascist and uncaring or violent warlike remedies such as nuking ones enemies declaring cats terrorists and killing God's creatures for no good reason other than they are there!
 

Bette M. (91)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:28 am
Thank you so much Lady L.........

I have so much I've wanted to write/say.
However......I'll be back must run for the moment

Thank you again.......Plant trees for life...................
 

Robert S. (115)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:52 am
We the people, many awakened by the excesses of the last administration and its crony laden Corporate run and war for profit agenda, voted to remove the Corporate arm of our government (Republicans) out of power. We the people wanted Corporate power checked. The Extreme right wing and Fox including Beck will do or say anything to make us fear our own elected Governments efforts to fight for us (the people). Corporations and there lackeys have a huge interest in keeping our government working for them and them only. Any attempt to control Corporate power is called Communist or Government takeover in order to win the fight through fear and intimidation.

This is a battle between Corporate control of our government and an oppressed and cheated peoples attempt to control that Corporate power through free election and the promised actions of those we elected. It is not a government takeover, but a people trying to take there country back from those who think that money should rule as king. Corporations don't care about America, or the flag, or the Constitution, or the people. For them it's about the bottom line. When people wake up to who Beck works for, who Fox works for, and what their agenda is, it will be a great day for this nation and its people. For now the Fox Nation is sold a nightmare as they slumber and persuaded easily because some, (too many) Dems like Republicans have been bought. Too many among them are greedy also, and they cower for political reasons when, however unfairly, words like Communist are hurled at them....but within this system the Dems and Obama are all we have to turn too. I am grateful that anyone, even these imperfect Dem Reps of ours, threatened and insulted, and in Obama's case, in great personal danger, hold up the peoples tattered banner, because while Corporations talk about freedom, it isn't our freedom they are worried about but their own freedom to do what ever the hell they want at our expense.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:04 am
Pam.. Thank you for signing. I appreciate your impassioned comment about the hate, violence and bigotry in our country and those who incite these unbalanced people. This campaign will work to stop this domestic terrorism and more...

1 - Urge the Dept of Justice to: study these violent lawlessness and act to counter it, investigate and prosecute those who are committing and inciting others to commit violence, review media groups who are violating laws or monopolizing the airwaves, investigate the rise in extremism and violence and the role the media plays in this.

2 - Urge Congress to hold hearings on the responsibility of the licensed broadcast media to conduct itself in the public interest

3 - Support legislation to require diversity in media ownership, encourage broader minority ownership of FCC licensed media outlets, and that otherwise reverses the dangerous trend of media monopolies allowed

4 - We are calling on the CEOs and Boards of media organizations to denounce and remove hosts, commentators and others who use the media to incite violence and spread lies that lead others to violence.

5 - We are calling on advertisers to cancel all ads on any media that uses the airwaves to spread a message of hate, intolerance, racism, lies and violence.

6 - We are calling on religious leaders to denounce all forms of intimidation and violence, and to cooperate with the Department of Justice by reporting information about those who intend to commit violence.

I'm encouraged by this campaign. Murdoch, Beck, Limbaugh and others could lose all advertising dollars, their license to operate and even be prosecuted if they are found to be inciting others to violence and telling lies. This is a full out attack to stop these ruthless people from leading the mindless among us.
 

. (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:15 am
hate is a strong word... but hate is normally derived from fear, a fear of someone else coming in and being in control... hate is a reaction to this, this is why there to is a lot of racism.. this war that rages in the boardrooms of America is a cause for concern... as hate can blind one to the true reality of day to day activities.. this is dangerous... they turly have to take responsibility and stop behaving like a bunch of boy scouts and take the bull by the horns - correct the failures of the past.. They must stop participating in the noise and get on with governing the country for the sake of all its people
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:20 am
"it isn't our freedom they are worried about but their own freedom to do what ever the hell they want at our expense. "

Well said, Robert!!! We have a society of people who will listen to the devil who looks like them, rather than the messenger who may appear ugly or different to them. Most cable and news media have handsome men and beautiful women delivering the news with revealing clothing. The producers have studied people and know we gravitate toward the best of what we hope to aspire to. They sell dreams. While they're at it, they can also tell lies. We've all been conditioned this way and it takes reprogramming to break from this hypnotic state of mind to get to the truth.

Have you seen the Matrix movies? There's a scene in the Matrix that brings this home so well. There's nothing wrong with listening to beautiful people who look like us. Only when we truly listen for the truth, will we break free and go toward it. And we cannot know the truth if we are not honest with ourselves first.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:49 am
Chris B: "Violence of course takes many forms not just physically bashing someone!"

Yes, and it comes out in different ways...emotional and verbal abuse inside the home and toward society. It's about power and control, same as with physical abuse. Despite what many people believe, domestic violence and abuse is not due to the abuser’s loss of control over his behavior. In fact, abusive behavior and violence is a deliberate choice made by the abuser in order to control you.

We know these people need help and are sick. All they need is someone to incite them. This campaign aims to address this and stop the violence. We also need to bring back programs that Reagan and the Bushes dismantled that helped the mentally ill. Many of these deranged and unbalanced individuals are running loose in society wreaking havoc with no help. As the economy continues to drop, we will have more unbalanced people to deal with. Thanks for addressing this, Chris.
 

Bette M. (91)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:52 am
Comment by Marion:
Have you seen the Matrix movies? There's a scene in the Matrix that brings this home so well. There's nothing wrong with listening to beautiful people who look like us. Only when we truly listen for the truth, will we break free and go toward it. And we cannot know the truth if we are not honest with ourselves first.

I've read the thread comments & the common bodage theme
seems to be "looking for the truth." Well, so far as I've been
able to decern no one has spoken/written of what the truth
is................

What is it?
Where is it?

And, most of the comments have hinted at
a group who seem to control everything but
our thoughts.

Could it be the top secrete Bilderburg group?
Angelina Jolie belongs to it
Michelle Obama belongs to it..............

So who is pulling whose string for survival?
Who is dictating what we do & say freely?
Or not say/do so freely.

In whose hand(s) does our very existence
depend.?.....All 6.8 billion of us!

Plant trees for life.....................

I know one thing with certainty.........It is not the animal world.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:56 am
Chaz: "hate is a strong word... but hate is normally derived from fear, a fear of someone else coming in and being in control"

Well said. The antidote to hate and fear is LOVE and COURAGE. Somehow we must teach people to turn on the right switch so they stop being destructive...and start being productive. I don't believe anyone intentionally wants to live a hate-filled life.
 

James L. (56)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:01 am
I just signed on. Exactly my way of thinking. Glad to be on board
 

Cynthia not well (340)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:14 am
Gladly signed up for this. TY Marion
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:20 am
James and Cynthia...Thank you for signing up! I know this issue has been a concern for both of you.
 

Joe Jones (2)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:27 am
im more afraid of far left extremism and left social programs which create violence and dependence on gov. which creates a vicious circle that keeps people in poverty and depending on gov. handouts....chicago is a good example of how these social programs create poverty
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:53 am
Frank Schaeffer's words ring true:

What a difference the post-election months of overt thuggery, threatening behavior and outright lying by the right wing horde has made. The village idiot quality of the "Tea Baggers," "Birthers," gun totters, "You Lie(ers)," and the "Let's Secede From The Union(ers)" has made it tougher to discount we who see a looming threat here and a direct line from hate talk to hate actions. It's harder these days to feel sanguine about our prospects for avoiding the calamity spewing from the right's vortex of lies and hate.

The extremism and paranoid delusions of the far, far loony right -- in other words The Republican Party today as led and deformed by Beck/Limbaugh/Fox and the fundamentalist "Christians" --- is now on full display. Even some members of the Republican leadership are beginning to cringe.

Last week Senator Lindsey Graham called Glenn Beck a "cynic" and the Birthers "crazy." Centrists like David Gergen are saying that enough is enough.

 

(3)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:09 am
Thanks for the article Marion, signed and noted. This is a subject I've been concerned about for some time. The comments from the usual racist source show you've hit the nail on the head again!
 

(3)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:12 am
The upside of all this though is that the right is showing its true colors and is beginning to alienate many of their more moderate followers.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:22 am
Bingo Joe
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:26 am
Thank you, Thomas! We are also working to stop lies and harassment in blogs like this. This is a form of violence as well. It's just a matter of time.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:30 am
You going to restrict freedom of speech now? Interesting. And you guys think we are paranoid!
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:31 am
"This is a form of violence as well."

Correction: This is a form of violence as well because it is abusive to lie and harass others with the same garbage when we all know it is not true. The same people who argue in this thread wanting to stop us from joining this campaign are the same trolls who have been advocating this destructive incitement and behavior throughout Care2.
 

Dragonfly Kid (17)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:34 am
Thank Goodness for Frank Schaeffer and others like him who are brave enough to stand up, even to their own upbringing and family beliefs. These are our Sauls who turn into Pauls and help us in our good works. Thanks Frank! I have joined your campaign and look forward to helping anyway I can.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:38 am
Man blows off hands making explosives
LAKE ELSINORE, Calif. (KABC) -- Law enforcement sources say a man blew his hands off while mixing homemade high explosives inside his family's home in Lake Elsinore, where his mother ran a day care center. The man, said to be in his early 20s, was found with what's being described as a substantial quantity of the high explosive TATP. Neo Nazi and anarchist type literature were found in the home. TATP was used in the London bombings and suspected in the current Zazi alleged terrorism case.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:45 am
What about the far left violence? Are you going to address it as well?
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:50 am
Thank you, Dragonfly! Your signature helps to stop the violence.

I hope everyone is sharing this link with family and friends outside of Care2 as well.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:58 am
There is nothing 'Grand' about this Old Party?

GOP- KKK, same thing, now!


 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:08 pm
Marshall ~ Thank you!!! This article says it all.
 

serge vrabec (280)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:09 pm
It is the spiritual truth and awakening happening RIGHT NOW, ALL ways bringing all this negativity, abuse of power, etc. to the surface to be cleansed , transmuted and healed. It would almost be comical except for the folks who are "suffering"and in pain because of it, my heart goes out to them as they take the NECCESSARY steps in finding out who they REALLY are.

As hard as it is to believe for some, these right wing folks serve the divine plan in the"end". WE create OUR own REALities, every minute of every hour , everyday, CONCIOUSly or UNconsciously.


Happiness is a decision, not an experience. Love is not a reaction, LOVE IS a decision. YOU CAN love ANYONE you choose, including Y-OURself, all THE TIME AND allWAYS.:):):)
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:17 pm
There is nothing 'Grand' about this Old Party, or it's defenders.

Bingo, Thomas! Anyone with half a brain would have to be deserting ship by now. The ones staying behind and defending that bunch of racists, deserve to go down with the ship.
 

Robert S. (115)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:27 pm
Freedom of speech.
Ironically this phrase and right we hold dear, written down for us as law to ensure that truth be heard, is by its very nature also license to the idiot and or liar.
 

Nancy M. (202)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:30 pm
Marion, of course. This issue is so important that I have sent to friends here as well as to family and friends outside of care2.

Pastor Tim, thank you. I think that you have clearly prayed about the issue and have a sense of what Jesus would really do. Never in all my years in Church, have I ever heard of Jesus promoting hate.

I also do remember the old responsibility thing. We have rights, but ONLY if we are responsible in using them. For example, if you scream “Fire” in a public setting and there is no fire, then of course, you are thrown out. Likewise, we all have a “right to bear arms” but as soon as society is out of control with violent use of guns for criminal purposes, there is a crackdown in terms of purchasing hold times and such.

Likewise, we have the responsibility to use our “freedom of speech” in a responsible manner. There are many responsible and positive ways to express opinions on both sides of any argument. It doesn’t matter if you are for Bush and the war, or against Bush and the war. It can be expressed in a positive thoughtful way. Solutions can also be expressed and that is even more positive.

On the other hand, since the election in the fall of 2008, we have all heard “HATE” from segments of our society. NOTHING BUT HATE. Ministers calling for the assassination of our President. That is not responsible use of the freedom of speech. THAT is stirring the hate pot. That promotes negativity just as Rush saying that he hopes Obama fails stirs negativity.

That is what is wrong with our country today.
 

Kelly C. (176)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:38 pm
I signed in, thanks, Marion. The is a somewhat new book called "The Family" by Jeff Sharlet. It provides some insight into fundamentalism and politicians. The book shows some scary thoughts of how a few people want to gain power. It is beyond me how a persons political leanings or beliefs can lead to hatred and violence.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:04 pm
but thanks Marion for your effort to silence the MAJORITY, WHO DON`T WANT OBAMAcare!!!!

MORE THAN 1300 000 Americans DON`t want that government change their healthcare system!!

please sign petition and join more than 1 000 000, who have already signed
http://www.freeourhealthcarenow.com/
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:25 pm
Krisy, Krisy...have you no shame? Do you really think that by repeating the lies enough, that they will become the truth? Your desperation is bordering on insanity. America is getting wise to your tactics.

 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:31 pm
Here Krisy. Let me help you out.

Free our Healthcare
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:50 pm
well what did I say insulting

perhaps report everyone, who objects to Obamacare to Secret Service??

then you should report several millions people

and death panels were included in healthcare bill
it is fact

and Obama lied about Iraq and Afghanistan war it is fact

 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:51 pm
and you should change tittle of this article to

Organizing to Stop dissent

and accept Obama`s policies , otherwise I will report you to Secret Service
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:53 pm
Marion what did I stumble into....LOL Pffffffffttttttttttt Obamacare...since when was it called that...LOL

Big goirlly Hugs
 

Nancy M. (202)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:55 pm
Thank you Marion. There are so many of us on this thread that do not approve of everything that Obama has done or not done. Yet we respect that he is president and respond with our dissent (when there is some) in positive ways.

Well said Gorilly Girl.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:07 pm
Gorilly Girl and Nancy ~ Thank you! Yep, the flies are buzzing but I have my fly swatter handy (flag button). I think MJMs troll spray drove them crazy. This discussion is about far right violence, not Obama supporters. That's what I mean about distorting the information and topic.

Serge ~ Thank you so much for your comment. It is so right on and beautiful, I will repeat it in case others missed it:

"It is the spiritual truth and awakening happening RIGHT NOW, ALL ways bringing all this negativity, abuse of power, etc. to the surface to be cleansed , transmuted and healed. It would almost be comical except for the folks who are "suffering"and in pain because of it, my heart goes out to them as they take the NECCESSARY steps in finding out who they REALLY are.

As hard as it is to believe for some, these right wing folks serve the divine plan in the"end". WE create OUR own REALities, every minute of every hour , everyday, CONCIOUSly or UNconsciously.

Happiness is a decision, not an experience. Love is not a reaction, LOVE IS a decision. YOU CAN love ANYONE you choose, including Y-OURself, all THE TIME AND allWAYS.:):):)"

Thank you, my friend. Your light shines for us all.
 

Nancy M. (202)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:09 pm
Reminds me of the old saying- you kill more flies with honey!
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:09 pm
MJM ~ A BIG "thank you" my friend! I shouldn't have to say why.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:11 pm
I've run out of honey, Nancy. The troll nonsense has gone too far, my friend.
 

Bette M. (91)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:32 pm
I;m no more a troll than the man in the moon.

I happen to be a real person who has opinions
and thoughts no matter how limited they may
be.

Since the U.S. Constitution guarantees free speech
as long as it harms nor another me & others have a
garateed right to voice our thoughts freely as much
as anyone else.

Plant trees for life....................
 

Bette M. (91)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:44 pm
Marion.......Do you believe in a variety of thoughts
& opinions that may not necessarily agree with your own?

Seems to me that is what any discussion is all about.
A variety of opinions to draw a conclusion to whatever
is being discussed.

Last time I checked we are not in China or N. Korea!

Remember the word diversity?........Diversity includes
all opinions/thought no matter how obscure or even
removed from said topic. Everything is tied into another
area of life as I see it.........Nothing stands alone without
at at least one other voice or proof to back it up.

Plant trees for life....................
 

George M M. (18)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:46 pm
Thanks, Marion, et al, for this. I do not cower any longer. I take names and all info against our President and Congressional GOP'ers who spout violent, negative rhetoric on the internet. I have no time for their garbage and report it to the FBI immediately!
If we are going to have an insurrection in this country, let it be those who love and support the USA and not the haters.
How do we post this entire story on our facebook and mysapce accounts? Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:47 pm
Any time Marion, my great friend. I was trully flattered by Krissy's remark insinuating that we are one in the same person. Problem is, now I have to watch my words closer. I would never want to cast a bad light on my dear friend.

Doesn't my profile pretty much expose me as one of a kind? I know that yours certainly does.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:03 pm
BM, you sure do a lot of talking. What are you trying to say? Diversity good? OK
Lies, mistruths, propaganda, hate speech, racism, bigotry, ALL BAD!
Stop trying to give respectability to these scum that would promote these terrible traits under the guise of 'diversity'.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:28 pm
George ~ I'm glad you've jumped on the wagon by signing on to stop the violence and negative rhetoric. I agree: we all have our differences, but to trash the country because of hate and anger has no place in a democracy.

Facebook: Go into your account and in the SHARE box, paste this information:

PETITION: Organizing to Stop Far Right Violence
http://bit.ly/yeuoF

Your wall on Facebook will then show this thread for others to view. I hope this is what you are looking for.



 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:33 pm
Krisjanis has been REMOVED. One more troll gone. Anyone else?

As long as no one engages a troll and they keep posting in a thread, they can be removed.
 

Bette M. (91)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:39 pm
MJM.....In an earlier post I ask the following:
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 9:43 pm
they have resorted to lies and intimidation to try and stop his agenda of much needed change. The problem is that I believe that Religious Right leaders and their Republican base are also potentially inciting violence. Within their numbers are unhinged people who also happen to be well armed.

What agenda(s)?
What violence? Where?.........Chicago Southside?
Well armed?........Chicago gangs?

Also, religion of all faiths have been the root of wars
and violence since before Christ.

Social upheavals have always been for all the
reasons mans has thought up in his greed for
and need for power.
........................................................................

Prey tell where do you see/get lies, mistrurhs,
propaganda, hate, racism,bigotry from my question?

The voilence(Chicago) is real that I mentioned above.
It happened, it is not imaginary. And, religion
has been the root cause in all conflicts of
war as much as the greed for power over
ones people whether it was WW2 or now
in Afganistan. Hitlers God was power, &
the U.S. God is not much different.
However, our God is a lot different than
those muslim Gods.................

Yes.....I talk alot, trying to keep up with
another is tough sometimes.


Finally, all the chatter here will not change
one single thing our present government
is hell bent on doing. The war will go on,
our health care will become nickle & dime
stuff to make someone else richer

Power play at the peoples expense..................

Plant trees for life........................
 

Mark G. (36)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:48 pm
I agree 100% with this post! First we should burn that damn Constitution. Then we find someone who is smarter than everybody else and put them in charge of deciding what we should be allowed to see and hear in the media. This person would decide which dissent is hate speech and put whomever did it in jail. No trial necessary.
And to stop any underground stuff they should police the internet. They might also need to put microphones or perhaps even small cameras in our homes and business lest some of these hate-mongers start disagreeing with the government in private because this could spread and cause violence too. Then in schools we could teach the students how to help recognize this unauthorized speech and they could listen in on their parents and look thru their parents books in case they have a Glenn Beck book or something. There would be a hotline set up to turn these people in.
Heck yeah! I'm all in! We can stop this stuff quickly.
If only the British had had the technology and the sense to do this in the 1770's just think of all the violence they would have prevented.
 

CareTwo Support (463)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:57 pm
Please comment on the story and your thoughts on the story and please leave the personal differences and attacks off of this site. If you wish to engage in hostility towards each other, please do so in private or off of this website. This conduct disrupts other contributors from feeling welcome to express themselves. This will not be tolerated any further. Thank you.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:59 pm
Sorry, Care2. BM asked us to check the profile.
 

Bette M. (91)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:06 pm
Thank you MJM....................

It is gibberish to you, however you probably missed
the point of the entire page. I'm sure there would be
many in the government whose hearts would soften
the reading of In These Rooms & The Invitation.

Sorry you did not relate............Poor thing. S.M.I.L.E.

Plant trees for life......................

P.S. It is rich.......In thought & soul.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:09 pm
Mark G says : 'I agree 100% with this post!'

Welcome aboard, Marky! Don't forget to 'note it'.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:14 pm
Thank you, Care2 Support.

Communities Online: Trolling and Harassment A great article on the topic to help keep threads clean.

Okay folks...back on topic.
 

Judy Cross (83)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:16 pm
Remember what Lenin said:
"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it."

As an outsider may I remind you that from Roman times on, divide and conquer has been used to great effect.

It the Left/Right paradigm is continually enforced and you are kept fighting each other instead of the crooks who run things,...it all goes down the tube...or actually to off-shore bank accounts.

Obama perpetuates the Bush wars and rewarded the Banksters who have stolen TRILLIONS....that's all you need to know to know that you are being played.

It's ALL theater!
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:17 pm
ACTION: We Must Confront The Dangerous Trend Towards Violent Extremism In America

Send a Letter to Congress

 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:19 pm
Judy ~ You are off topic. We are talking about right wing violence.
 

Bette M. (91)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:47 pm
Wait a minute......As I've plodded & plundered through
the thread comments most of it was about government health care.

Right?

Is the health care going to get violent? Maybe we all
are going to be marched off to a doctor not of our choosing
with a machine gun stuck in our back.

If that is so or could happen heaven help us from the far right!


Can someone define for me right wing violence. Gee, I never heard
of such a thing before........I've never heard or seen a news report
of right wing riots, murder or mayhem.

Is this happening now & where?

Did I miss something?.

Plant trees for life................
 

Dragonfly Kid (17)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:02 pm
Marion, how refreshing to see some sort of strategy to deal with trolls on this site. I get so frustrated on other sites when we are talking about something important and they get to spew all live long day while our posts sometimes get wiped out. This is the first I've seen of a strategy, and it's simple. Just don't respond. It's hard sometimes. This is good stuff.
 

Judy Cross (83)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:05 pm
Carrying on about trolls doesn't give this story any more credibility. The assassinations of JFK, MLK and RFK were not due to fundamentalists but were inside jobs.

Explain how fundamentalists got the secret service to stand down.

Huffington Post is a left gatekeeper site run by a woman who originally came from the right.

As Lenin said: "The best way to control the opposition is to lead it."
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:14 pm
I'm glad this helps, Dragonfly. Be sure to visit the troll link and go through it. It's quite an education as it defines the various types of trolls, their methods and how to deal with them. It's usually to identify a troll: they attack, rather than use conversational courtesy to engage in discussion. If you are taken aback by a confrontational comment, you may be dealing with a troll. I'm hoping everyone learns how to deal with this so we can enjoy discussions more.
 

George M M. (18)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:23 pm
Marion!!! Done!!! Likely, more will join your cause. It is a sad state of affairs when some has to prove their ignorance and arrogance with no forethought whatsoever. They prattle on and on and say nothing. It is a breath of fresh air today to hear the good news regarding our health Care Plan and the netherparts that the Dems seem to be growing (FINALLY) in putting the screws to the DINOS who side constantly with the "moan, groan, we're all alone and sooo picked on" fringe crowd. I think we are going to see some great changes in the not too distant future (days???). Annnnd spending is up!!! This must fry the goobers of the wah-wah crowd! More power to our side where the sun shines so much brighter!!! D-d-d-dak!
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:30 pm
Judy, if you've got some info on those assassinations, I bet the Secret Service would like that info. Please, share.

When did Arianna Huffington become a leader or controller of anything?

This is what America should be concerned about.

The Last Time Right-Wing Hatred Ran Wild Like This a President Was Killed


 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:39 pm
'Recently, there has been an explosion in threats and acts of domestic terrorism. The majority of these can be traced to groups and individuals who do not accept the results of our recent election or the laws enacted or proposed by those who have been elected. They seek to undermine the democratic process through threats, intimidation, and even outright murder. They can't accept the legitimacy of the President, or a woman's legal right to make choices about her own medical care, or an immigrant's right to be treated humanely under the law, so they carry out acts that are antithetical to American democracy, American values, and both civil and human rights.'

 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:40 pm
The fringe elements that makes up those who commit these acts of terror, are frequently exploited by a continuous wave of right wing media advocating violence, either directly or indirectly, by commentators amplifying the talking points of extremist religious leaders and extremist political leaders. The fringe is incited on our public airwaves, and urged to take matters into their own hands, with the underlying belief that the Bible and/or U.S. Constitution justify using "whatever means" are necessary to oppose what they believe to be immoral laws.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:41 pm
So true Judy.


TAKEN FROM MARION'S LINK:

"Before we begin, it's worth noting that the term "troll" is one of the most frequently cited insults in the online environment. IT IS OFTEN USED TO BRAND, SILENCE OR SCAPEGOAT A MEMBER WITH A DISSENTING OR UNPOPULAR OPINION."

Dissent is not hate speech. At the risk of being "flagged" I would like to ask again....will those of you who signed also condemn hate speech and violence from the far left?

Last time I checked this was still America and the 1st amendment, for the time being is still in place no matter how much the far left wing nuts wish it weren't.

This thread is dripping with hypocrisy.


 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:49 pm
What America should be concerned about is people trying to silence those they don't agree with!
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:07 pm
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/12/crush-the-obamedia-narrative-look-whos-gripped-by-insane-rage/
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:10 pm
Sorry Marion. It just sickens me when they attack you personaly.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:13 pm
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/17/nutroots-suddenly-hypersensitive-about-nazipresident-comparisons/
 

Pat B. (355)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:20 pm
TY, Marion for this. Noted, and SIGNED!!! Thank You for signing on. ;-)
 

Bette M. (91)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:22 pm
Thank you NE L.

Plant trees for life................
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:25 pm
You are quite welcome B. M.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:42 pm
Is this hate you can believe in?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:44 pm
The hate and rhetoric comes from BOTH sides whether you want to believe it or not.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:49 pm
I was all ready to just walk away from this thread until "someone" made it personal. As a matter of fact I had stopped tracking it until a friend sent me a personal msg to alert me to the ridiculous accusations leveled at me and others. Thanks friend ;)

For every post you can point to of right wing hate I can point you to hate from the left.

I have said this before and I will say it again...this gets us nowhere!!!
 

Mark G. (36)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:01 pm
NE L. I've told you over and over. Only the right can hate. The left is only trying to HELP. Help is not hate, man. Obviously you need another brainwashing session...
 

Nancy L. (141)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:07 pm
Palm to forehead....what was I thinking? I'll try to remember that in the future.

Thanks!
 

(3)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:55 pm
"The fringe elements that makes up those who commit these acts of terror, are frequently exploited by a continuous wave of right wing media advocating violence, either directly or indirectly, by commentators amplifying the talking points of extremist religious leaders and extremist political leaders. The fringe is incited on our public airwaves, and urged to take matters into their own hands, with the underlying belief that the Bible and/or U.S. Constitution justify using "whatever means" are necessary to oppose what they believe to be immoral laws."

Nail hit on the head again, MJ M. We keep seeing, even here on this forum, any attempt to decry or stop right-wing broadcast hatred likened to Nazi book burning and censorship. How thoroughly original, right-wing gas bags comparing progressively minded people to Nazis, couldn't see that coming. No attempt of course to compare those spewing the fascist hate-speech with Nazis, even though the Nazis employed the same methods to incite the first violence against the Jews in Germany, leading to krystalnacht, and finally the holocaust.

In a perfect world, it wouldn't matter what Beck, Limbaugh et al said on the air because the populace would be intelligent enough to distinguish hate from intelligent commentary, facts from lies, and news from propaganda. Unfortunately, we live in a country with a populace suffering from decades of a continually downgraded school system, and the average level of education has plummeted far below that of a number of third world countries. In this environment of easily swayed, weak intellects, we'd damn well better be paying attention to what propaganda and hate speech is being pumped into the brains of the masses.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:55 pm
George ~ Yes, things are looking up and I am encouraged too about health care and related issues. All the more reason to continue our efforts to squash far right violence from those who want this Administration to fail. Sad, but it's the reality we deal with. I'm also encouraged that this thread is nearing 75 notes from all the activity and attention. Good. That means the exposure will drive more people to join the campaign. Yaaayy!!

Gran P ~ Thank you for signing on!! We are making headway! Please share this link with your contacts. We are doing it for the safety and stability of our nation.

 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:21 pm
It is both a sad and scary fact, that intellectuals have never gravitated toward the right. What is so sad is that they remind us of this continueously. What's scary is that they are proud of the fact.


 

Lloyd H. (46)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:41 pm
What needs to be done is to iinvestigate, detain, interrogate and prosecute the Christian Taliban of America its bombers, assassins, enablers, promoters, and cheerleaders with the full powers and to the fullest extent of the Patriot Act, equal protection and prosecution under the law for Islamic and Christian terrorists alike. This will most likely, if there actually was a chance in hell of anyone in the Obama DOJ having the spine the actually enforce American law with no one above the law that they have shown themselves incapable of with torture, accomplish two things show the Christian Taliban that being christian Americans does not put them above the reach of US laws and put the true and necessary fear of the Patriot Act and just what it is and can do into the Congress of the USA, particularly the Repugnican 'National security over civil rights' right -wingers to repeal the Patriot Act of at least support and vote for the Justice Act. The whole concept of actually treating the Christian Taliban exactly like the extremist terrorist religious group it actually is warms my heart and gives me hope for true democracy and the rule of law in America.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:51 pm
Thomas: "Unfortunately, we live in a country with a populace suffering from decades of a continually downgraded school system, and the average level of education has plummeted far below that of a number of third world countries. In this environment of easily swayed, weak intellects, we'd damn well better be paying attention to what propaganda and hate speech is being pumped into the brains of the masses."

Out of the ether comes clarity and answers. Take this weak intellect, throw in a collapsed economy, a new black president, and we get ridiculous extreme far right tactics to "take our country back." Led by Beck, Limbaugh and others who are handsomely paid by the corporations and elites, they've moved from birthers, to death panels, to the White House is spying on your Facebook page, to the Obama speech to children as akin to the Hitler Youth Brigade, and they suggested that a democrat effort to beef up relief efforts for natural disasters was actually a plan to round up and imprison the President's critics to form "concentration camps for political dissidents, such as occurred in Nazi Germany."

A thinking person would come to the conclusion that if we struck out on this claim, then this one, and now that one, maybe we're on the wrong track and these are lies. Maybe we should investigate for the truth. How can we believe the source when we keep getting lied to?

Starting at 2:50 on this video, Melissa Harris-Lacewell, explains why the fringers are now trying to impeach Obama (I'm laughing!) and what underlies this far right wing movement to associate Obama with these outrageous claims. The answer is astonishing...and all the more reason this campaign to stop the violence is needed.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:03 pm
Marshall ~ Which is why mainstream Republicans are trying to distance themselves from the far right. They're scared too. Yet, they will still accept their votes, while letting Beck and Limbaugh do the dirty work.

Lloyd ~ Wouldn't that be wonderful? To prosecute these criminals would implicate 3/4ths of Congress and shut down government. That could be the reason for inaction. The day may come for a revolution. But right now, this country needs stability and security. Thanks for stopping in.
 

Karrie C. (1)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:08 pm
I want to thank you for that link I will be signing it because I am tired of the right winged fear mongering mumbo Jumbo they are spewing towards us. I also want to say that Prophacy notes is another one and live prayer also does this about Obama. I am sick of hearing the lies and fear mongering stuff. I want to put on my news and get informed not scared to support a causes because they think they are Holier then thou. I been attending a IFB type church and the people in that is brainwashed to thinking all the lies about Our president. I have caused a rift with my husband and I and he wants me to not listen to the far right winged people. I think its time for a change.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:24 pm
Karrie ~ Thanks for signing on. I think this campaign will help to make us safer. These are uncertain times. Far right wing (fringers) are good people too. They're scared. Some of what they hear and believe is true. But it is also mixed with lies. We need a media that is required to be honest with us and research the information they tell us so we can make better decisions. That is what this campaign is about too. Stay strong and hold on. Keep seeking the truth. You will know it when you find it.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:39 pm
I'm not sure what to say, Lloyd. Will we start the prosecutions with the Grand Puba of the Christian Taliban, Rush Limbaugh? Do we use Bushy's Patriot Act to take down that whole stinkin' lot? I love it! If the Patriot Act is gonna take away my Constitutional Rights, it sure as hell better be taking away those of those traitorous thugs as well. Beck to O'Really, Bachman to Palin. Aren't these people all inciting their braindead followers to overthrow the Government? WTF is that Patriot Act good for, anyway? So they can read MY email? Tap MY phone? Lock ME up for years without charges? (you know, these questions are all rhetorical).



 

Darlene K. (361)
Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:09 pm
My humble opinion, I don't waste my time with the right or left agendas, because neither of these parties truly put the betterment of the people, FIRST. Too many other important campaigns to sign on with the thousands of causes screaming to humanity for relief and change.

This article disgusts me as all the others one do.....

It is the SAME OLD PARADIGM, of "one side is violent and one side isn't" or "they are wrong and we are correct" or "the right are fear mongers and the left are liberal loons" or "the Democrats are better, and the Republicans are worse"....and so on....

Those who keep this constant fight among the people, are helping to destroy any unification of people. Perhaps, both sides could start listening to each other, but that is just a thought....

I am very disappointed in this President, but I am very concerned for his well-being. I shake my head..., as I am watching history repeat itself over again. However, I am inspired by HOPE which strengthens my FAITH that the people of the United States are starting to take action.

I agree strongly with the great points and questions that B.M. gave in these comments. This entire point of this article is futile, to me..., because..., it is EACH American's duty to WAKE-UP, and they are..., to recognize and seek TRUTH, in what most are now realizing was a bunch of lies and deceit in the past, of both the Republicans and Democrats.

Marion, please know I respect your opinion, and all the hard work you do for this nation and the world.

It is EACH American's obligation to face their own fears and create change in their own lives. That is it. I laugh and ignore at the many attempts of both political parties to spread negative hate and deception. I try to help others ignore these negative groups, because the days of the oppression in America, are coming to an end. These are my opinions, and please disregard them if you don't like them. I respect everyone's choices with this statement.

There are many of us that are trying to wake up a nation to the REALITY that BOTH the extreme right and the extreme left are still trying to hold on to a society enslaved to the illusions of the past leaderships of power and greed.

Mainstream Media is controlled by both corrupt parties. BOTH, and not just one side. I apologize, if I offended anyone, because that isn't my intent. I am just tearing up, at this point, that it seems so hopeless that this nation will ever UNITE, and it is all about LOVING each other and treating each other how we would want to be treated..., loving both the ugly and the beautiful..., because that is what we are..., of both polarities.

PEACE will never come forth from WAR, FIGHTING, or constant SUPRESSION OF ANOTHER'S OPINION WHO DIFFERS. If we disagree, for goodness sakes, we can do it respectfully, and I am sick of the word "troll" being used constantly, against those who I know work just AS HARD as activists for a better world for our children.

I see VIOLENCE all over my community, all over this nation, all over this world and sometimes in this site in awful language used against each other. The threat isn't from any "religious right"...., it is within THE PEOPLE..., themselves....

Organizing to stop the violence of the right?????? How about the thousands of other causes where children, women, men, animals, and the Earth are being slaughtered......How about organizing to get this President to withdraw ALL our troops from AFPAK?????

much love and peace to all...namaste, dar
 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:29 am
Dar, in the imortal words of Congressman Barney Frank, 'what planet do you reside on'?
This violence from the far right is going to ultimately get our President killed. I'm not sure exactly why your head is in the sand about that fact. You better wake up and realize where the threat lies. In ain't the far left, whose ranks are mostly pacifists. It's those troglodytes that believe everything Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and Maulkin spew as 'fact', that are the real danger. I suppose you'll be denying it all the way up to President Biden's swearing in.
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:42 am
"We have a long horrible legacy of violence against public figures. The worst chapters in our history have been written in blood by extremists when they felled our moral and political leaders. We must act now to avert another tragedy.

Sign on to our campaign at www.StopDomesticTerror.com.

Thousands have already signed on but we can only make a change through massive collective action. Join us and help build a wall of tolerance to contain the hate."

Frank Schaeffer is the author of Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back and the forthcoming Patience With God: Faith For People Who Don't Like Religion (Or Atheism)


Follow Frank Schaeffer on Twitter: www.twitter.com/frank_schaeffer
===================================================================

Marion: BLESS YOU for doing this. You are doing a REAL PUBLIC SERVICE!
I've been off C2 for a bit, my computer is acting weird lately and I don't even know if this comment will get posted! I come here and I am OVERWHELMED:
1] By the courage of THIS MAN, Frank Schaeffer, to admit to PAST WRONGS, which can never be easy!;
2] By the COURAGE AND WONDERFUL COMMENTS by so many here, whose hearts are not only in the right place, but are beating with honesty and readiness to TAKE ACTION!;
and, finally,
3] The GREAT AND NECESSARY ability and instructions on TAKING ON THE TROLLS and minimizing their destructive tactics.
Wow, you guys are simply AMA-A-A-AAZING!

You know what, I worry about Michelle Obama, our beautiful First Lady {she whom the Far Right compares to a "gorilla"; GorillyGirl, they don't MEAN it that way of course, but that could be construed as an HONOR!}. And those two beautiful First Daughters. Anything happening to their Dad, would of course be devastating; but, those lunatics wouldn't even stop at assassinating the entire family, they are so stirred up with sheer hatred by the Right-wing Radio freaks.

I sure HOPE this campaign WORKS -- it had better! I would be PROUD to be right next to those real Christian pastors who have seen the light and seen the error and un-Christianness of the Far Right and their MIS-USE of the Gospel of the Jewish Rabbi and Reformer, Jesus.
 

chris b. (2474)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:36 am
I note President Obama has won the Nobel peace prize! No doubt that will infuriate the warmongering right!
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:44 am
"Recently, there has been an explosion in THREATS and ACTS of domestic terrorism. The majority of these can be traced to groups and individuals who do not accept the results of our recent election or the laws enacted or proposed by those who have been elected. They seek to undermine the democratic process through threats, intimidation, and even outright murder. They can't accept the legitimacy of the President, or a woman's legal right to make choices about her own medical care, or an immigrant's right to be treated humanely under the law, so they carry out acts that are antithetical to American democracy, American values, and both civil and human rights.

The fringe element that makes up those who commit these acts of terror is frequently exploited by a continuous wave of rightwing media ADVOCATING violence, either directly or indirectly, and by commentators amplifying the talking points of extremist religious leaders and extremist political leaders. This fringe is incited on our public airwaves, and urged to take matters into their own hands, with the underlying belief that the Bible and/or U.S. Constitution justify using ‘whatever means’ are necessary to oppose what they believe to be immoral laws.

We are taking a stand against this dangerous trend towards the INCITEMENT of lawlessness and violence. We strongly believe in the First Amendment right of free expression and discourse, even when that expression is abhorrent and not in line with our own beliefs. However, the First Amendment does not protect debate where one side includes the threat or act of violence."
===========================================
THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE. THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE. THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE.
Is that clear enough??????????
This is for those not-quite-over-the-line-as-trolls here, who want to try and CONFUSE and BLUR the issue, who yammer on, characteristically, about "Free Speech" {a Sacred Value that I hold}, who say boo-hoo, we are MERELY innocent "dissenters", we don't agree, no harm in that, don'cha see???
We are here talking about THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE. Like the MURDER of Dr. Tiller; and all the HATE-SPEECH leading up to that MURDER. And the MURDER of a Census Taker in Kentucky; hung from a tree with the word FED on his chest.
"Free Speech" was NEVER intended to cover THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE. You can verbally disagree with the right to abortion or even the right to conduct a census; without resorting to violence or the type of speech that directly INCITES, ENCOURAGES, APPROVES, EGGS ON such violence.

And SHOUTING DOWN people at for example a Town Meeting, so that they can't be heard, as I have seen examples of from the Far Right even in my own community, is the very ANTITHESIS of Free Speech. Sure, it is bad when the Left or anybody else does it, too. But, just now, it is THE FAR RIGHT that is doing that. THAT IS NOT FREE SPEECH, TO USE SPEECH TO DROWN OUT AN OPPONENT'S SPEECH. Or to INTIMIDATE more civilized, decent and quiet folks, those who have an innate sense of decorum.

So all this blither-blather about "this is not allowing us {trolls and right-wingers} our innate and equal rights to disagree", is shown up as the puerile pathetic whining it really is.

1] Threats and incitements to VIOLENCE, VIOLENT ACTS UP TO AND INCLUDING OUTRIGHT MURDER, is NOT a part of Free Speech covered by the U.S. Constitution. NO government on Earth could tolerate that!
2] Outshouting opponents, ain't Free Speech neither. It is nothing but brute Force overcoming Decency. The ideology of the Far Right, "by ANY MEANS necessary, ANY means", is what CONDONES this.
3] Ad hominem attacks, attacks on PERSONS and not the ideas put forward by those persons, are always and forever against the Care2 Code of Conduct; and the Trolls whether they know it or not, AGREED NOT TO DO THAT WHEN THEY SIGNED ON TO CARE2. NEVER forget that!
As used by the Far Right, anyway, those attacks aren't Free Speech; they are LIBEL; which is ALSO not anybody's "Constitutional Right", but CRIMINAL and actionable!

This above SHOULD put those not-quite-over-the-line-as-trolls to rest forever; but of course it won't, they'll be back whining about their poor, poor selves being "suppressed" just for having "different opinions". We all know Scheiss when we see it and smell it.
 

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (80)
Friday October 9, 2009, 3:09 am
There are just too many comments here for me to read all of them at this time, but I do want to say that here in France we enjoy freedom of speech but that does NOT include hate speech and NOBODY sees any contradiction there.

Inciting to hatred and violence IS NOT PROTECTED by the law, nor should it be ! France does not allow people wearing swastikas to go around on the street or at public events recruiting and spreading their white supremacist garbage! And perverting their children with home 'education,' that is creating generations of extremists whose minds have been so twisted that they actually and sincerely believe they are doing God's or Jesus' work.

The KKK now has 'got' religion and we saw a documentary about far-right extremism in the US last evening on TV here. Neo-nazis & KKK members were shown in their 'everyday' activities, including a KKK 'weekend retreat' for adults & their children. It's tragic and revolting to see kids who want to cancel out Africans, Latinos, African-Americans, Asians, Jews, & anyone else who isn't 'Aryan,' though they don't use that term anymore! Adults & children are constantly taught that they are in DANGER of becoming a minority - that it has already happened, in fact; that these other groups are going to 'burn' them. You can imagine that any action, however despicable, is justified when you are fighting for you life and Jesus sides with you !!!

I witnessed a scene where a 'preacher' woman had everyone in her 'church' audience cut off a lock of hair and set it on fire: she instructed them to close their eyes, smell the odor of the burning hair, and imagine it was their children burning. You can imagine how these fools and those who manipulate them will react to people of different races when they are brainwashed into believing that these groups want to destroy them and their kids!!

Kudos to Marion for this post: You cannot currently send a star to Marion because you have done so within the last week.

I have already signed this -- someone posted it from the AmericanCivilLibertiesUnion, who I believe took this important initiative. It was promoted on a post I noted, can't remember which, doesn't matter -they important thing is to sign and write to newspapers: "Since when did extreme become mainstream?"

Also sign: wecanstopthehate.org - Take the Hate Out of the Immigration Debate @ http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/

Kudos to Sir Walk F for his comment -- yes, let's be sure to spend our energies on Single-Payer!!
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 6:02 am
"Dar, in the imortal words of Congressman Barney Frank, 'what planet do you reside on'?
This violence from the far right is going to ultimately get our President killed. I'm not sure exactly why your head is in the sand about that fact. You better wake up and realize where the threat lies."

MJM ~ It's because Dar fought vehemently last year for Obama to lose, along with these other people here who want him gone. Of course she would say this. Dar and these others jumped on almost every lie the right wing told about Obama. They have never given him a chance. They want him to fail. When I and others pointed out the lies to them, they argued endlessly. Even after it was PROVEN these were lies, they now say there's no need for this campaign. They want him gone. They would rather have Bush back or McCain than to have a black man as president. Some of the things these people said last year were unbelievable. Oh, they're wonderful people in most areas of their lives...until you mention that our president is black and they go berzerk. Look how they come out of the woodwork in this thread.

That's why Dar and others see no reason whatsover for this campaign to stop far right violence. They WANT it to continue. They WANT something terrible to happen to Obama. They WANT riots and revolts in the USA. They don't care if lives are lost. All they know is they "want their country back."

Back to what?

What great Americans we have amongst us.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 7:28 am
Barbara ~ Thank you so much for your supportive and right on comments! Indeed, those who would try to go against this campaign to stop violence in any form are clearly DEFINING THEMSELVES. Apparently, there is a considerable segment (fringers) in this country who are going through an identity crisis.

Chris B ~ YAAYYY!! Obama deserves the Nobel Prize. I am so glad the International community recognizes Obama's accomplishments. This is a good reflection on America, which we sorely need after the damaging effects of Bush.

Alba ~ Thank you for your great insight into far right extremism in this country and why this campaign is critical. When you read the poorly thought out and poor communication skills of those in this thread who see a threat to this campaign to stop violence, we realize the poor education in this country and the ignorance that is behind it. These people don't see their own hatred and bigotry that glares like a neon sign to the rest of the world. As someone mention above, they are actually proud of their ignorance.

Thank you for the link. I will be visiting there. And I agree with you and Sir Walk F that Single Payer is our best option.

Barbara, Chris and Alba ~ Your comments made my day!! Thank you, thank you!
 

Bette M. (91)
Friday October 9, 2009, 7:34 am
The most common form od decency in any debate
is to allow & respect an opponents philosophy.
If one does not agree then a simple thank you is
all that is required instead of saying to all just ignore
him/her. One will automatically see you as a person
or party of respect if a thank you is offered up.

To put down or slander another persons viewpoint
does nothing for the goal you intend.

I've not seen that from you at all Marion.......You
seemingly patronize others to get them on your side
of the debate. However, you overflow with graciousness,
the honey coated words you've spoken of
when one does side with you or sign whatever

And, I assure you whatever it is you want signed will not
reach the eyes nor the ears of the big boys in politics.

Decency & respectfulness counts in winning no matter what it
is about.

Your motives & tactics are disgusting to say the least,
it is in fact 7th grade school yard behavior.

Plant trees ffor life.......................
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 7:41 am
Good news...

The Hate Crime Amendment just passed despite Republican opposition to the bill.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Friday October 9, 2009, 7:43 am
Marion your racism is showing again.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:11 am
"Marion your racism is showing again."

Several members have commented they are intimidated by these members' comments like this. Why is NE L allowed to say these things?
 

Nancy M. (202)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:22 am
Marion, certainly you have realized by now that the "new definition" of racism is being FOR anything that is other than white, male, and protestant (with a few white women thrown in who `know how to keep their place).

And there is a BIG difference between expressing opinions and spewing hate. Decency and respectfulness do allow for differeing opinions that are well thought out and expressed in a positive fashion.

I think some commenters are being overly sensitive, .......or are they?
 

Nancy L. (141)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:30 am
"Why is NE L allowed to say these things?"

For the same reason you are allowed to say this:

They WANT it to continue. They WANT something terrible to happen to Obama. They WANT riots and revolts in the USA. They don't care if lives are lost. All they know is they "want their country back."


Can you say 1st amendment?

BUT....I am happy to know that you think my words are so powerful.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:55 am
Yes NE L. We want our country back... but not at the cost of a President's life.... I don't want riots and revolts in my country.... I just want understanding.... I want it understood that it is "We the people" NOT "We the government"..... I am part Native American and I love the land... I learn from mother earth everyday... People have lost perspective.... It's the almighty dollar that drives society today... Not the blessings our Creator has given us....

For us who does not agree with Obama... we are called racist... stupid... mindless... We all have a right to speak.... doesn't matter if you agree or not...

Marion says: "Dar, in the imortal words of Congressman Barney Frank, 'what planet do you reside on'?
This violence from the far right is going to ultimately get our President killed. I'm not sure exactly why your head is in the sand about that fact. You better wake up and realize where the threat lies."

MJM ~ It's because Dar fought vehemently last year for Obama to lose, along with these other people here who want him gone. Of course she would say this. Dar and these others jumped on almost every lie the right wing told about Obama. They have never given him a chance. They want him to fail. When I and others pointed out the lies to them, they argued endlessly. Even after it was PROVEN these were lies, they now say there's no need for this campaign. They want him gone. They would rather have Bush back or McCain than to have a black man as president. Some of the things these people said last year were unbelievable. Oh, they're wonderful people in most areas of their lives...until you mention that our president is black and they go berzerk. Look how they come out of the woodwork in this thread. "

BTW Marion... Obama was carried in a white womb for 9 months... so called raised by a white grandmother.... He is part white.... So you need to stop playing the race card.....

I also voted against him.... not because of his color.... Just I didn't and don't feel a man who has only been a committee organizer is qualified to be president.....

 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:56 am
I agree and you raise a good point, Nancy. I'm not surprised by the outrageous commenters who disagree with this campaign and the views of those who want to stop the violence. I think these comments are shocking to many Americans who have never seen such blatant bigotry and hatred, as well as the International community who now understands the divide in America.

I am so glad I was not raised where these views are predominant. I would probably live in fear of standing up to racism, bigotry and hatred. It is no accident that I am probably one of a few -- if not the only -- African Americans who is vocal against racism where I see it at Care2.

And contrary to the belief of some here, I don't view myself as black or white, which I am. I view myself as a human being who happened to be born in the USA. Because our society loves "labels", I call myself a liberal. But I am a combination of Liberal, Green, Independent, Democrat and Republican. Folks would be surprised to observe that I live a basically conservative lifestyle. I suspect most Americans fall under multiple labels as well.

As such, I identify more closely with the International community at large, which seems to realize we are all in this together. I believe most Americans feel this way as well. The isolated fringe group in this thread is going through an identity crisis. They have long identified with an image that is selfish, isolated and exists purely in their minds...not the world's. Yet, they expect the nation and world to adopt their view above the majority view, regardless whether that view harms others or not. Fortunately, these fringers are in the minority and represent views of 20% or less in the USA.

Overly sensitive?

My question is: why are they here opposing a campaign to make America safer?
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:00 am
"We want our country back... but not at the cost of a President's life.... I don't want riots and revolts in my country.... I just want understanding"

Thank you. We agree on something. Did you join the campaign and sign the petition to stop the violence?
 

Nancy L. (141)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:04 am
Nobody opposes making America safer. Those are your words.

No one here has said they want any violence. Of course we don't want anything to happen to the POTUS. That would be a terrible thing for this country.

We just don't agree with you that there is any more hate coming from the right than there has been from the left. You just don't seem to be able to handle people who disagree with you and you continually play the race card when it clearly does not apply.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:09 am
"No one here has said they want any violence. Of course we don't want anything to happen to the POTUS. That would be a terrible thing for this country."

Does this mean you signed on to the campaign? Great!!
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:10 am
I am against violence.... I don't need to sign a petition to make my point....
 

Nancy L. (141)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:14 am
If it were a campaign against violence I would but it is obviously a campaign agaisnt free speech.
 

Cynthia not well (340)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:17 am
I have already signed up for this gladly. I applaud Marion for bringing this forward. I also applaud those of you who are educated enough to know how dangerous these people can be. I applaud and agree with everything BMutiny and Alba Nuova have wrote here. Some people here just don't seem to get it. They don't understand that free speech has nothing to do with hate,fear mongering or rasism or inciting violence. I can't understand why they can't seem to grasp that these things are wrong and should be stopped, unless they themselves are the haters. Why else would anyone be against trying to stop hate speech that could incites violence? This excuse they use that you can't stop hate speech and have free speech is ridicules. Or the, who decides who the haters are is also ridicules. Common sense should tell them that. Common sense sure tell them something.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:18 am
I agree with you NE L.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:27 am
Thank you, Cynthia. Of course, there is no reasoning with their argument.

They are simply...

Trolling to obstruct, disrupt and argue. No value added to thread. Rather than engage with the trolls, I encourage everyone to flag them.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:27 am
I feel people like BMutiny and Alba are playing the race card.... I feel that in these times.... race shouldn't even be a point.... We have people on the rez hungry and doing without.... Winter will be here soon and heaters along with wood is needed and we worry about little things.... my people are completely doing without.... We love mother earth and what she has to teach us....
 

Cynthia not well (340)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:28 am
Correction on my last sentence should have said - Common sense should tell them something.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:30 am
Marion... who you flagging???? People who disagree with you????
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:33 am
Just like the Republican's being shut out of the heath care debates.... Is that right????
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:35 am
Woo hoo I LOVE it when I become the personal target for trolls! I can TAKE it, as I have for a LONG time here on Care2; and other people who might otherwise either be unconsciously somewhat intimidated, or perhaps haven't encountered trolls before, get to SEE just how idiotic an idiot can be! And, they LEARN how to deal with trolls, by IGNORING and by FLAGGING {as Care2 gives us the power to do!}. When trolls are FLAGGED, then Care2 staff takes care of them {by ELIMINATING them}. You can FLAG their comments; and then go on and FLAG their profiles on their profile page! {Lower right-hand corner.}
This is info for those NEW people who are always coming onto Care2; because Care2 with all its faults, is BETTER than any other venue I know, for dealing with IDIOTIC TROLL COMMENTS.......
So, the trolls inadvertently serve as an OBJECT LESSON FOR ALL...... Yes, flagging them is somewhat of a nuisance, but SOMEBODY has to do it!..... it is called "Community Watch". Democracy In Action.......!

As I stated, ad hominem {personal} attacks are against the Care2 Code of Conduct {CoC}; which is down at the bottom of every page {I guess under "terms of service"}; when Care2 gets your message they will ELIMINATE the person's profile; but, yawn, they always come back under more fake profiles, so have to be dealt with AGAIN..... EACH TIME THEY ATTACK, under whatever fake name, they are breaking Care2's Code of Conduct {CoC} and Terms of Service {ToS}......

A bit trickier, are those that don't quite cross the line of actual trolldom..... However, their so-called "arguments" are not difficult to see thru and to put down......

One more piece of advice, is, you NEVER, NEVER, NEVER EVER descend to a troll's level.... name calling, personal attacks, dirty language, etc. If you do, THE TROLL HAS GOT JUST WHAT THEY WANTED. The purpose of the troll, is NOT to convince you with "arguments".... obviously! Their purpose here, is, to cause dissension among our ranks, get us fighting each other rather than against the Far Right hate-mongers!

I'm pretty certain that some if not all trolls, are actually AGENTS sent among us, to try to LIMIT Care2's effectiveness as a promulgator of Social Change..... that they have backing, including Financial. {Obviously individuals having few or no job skills or communication skills otherwise!} In the past, Care2 members have actually found WEBSITES where such idiots were recruited and told what to say..... those Websites subsequently being HIDDEN from us again.
In other words {not mentioned in the otherwise-good linked article on trolls}, these are not MERELY idiots with some sort of "personality disorder" that makes them act in a "hurtful" way. They are A PRIME EXAMPLE OF EXACTLY WHAT IT IS WE ON CARE2, AND THE WRITER MENTIONED AT THE START OF THIS THREAD, ARE FIGHTING AGAINST......
 

Nancy L. (141)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:39 am
The hypocrisy is astounding isn't it Scarlette?
 

Nancy L. (141)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:40 am
Marion... who you flagging???? People who disagree with you????

You got it.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:42 am
Why am I responding to this commplete nonsence, frankly Scarlett... LOL.... MJM... Learn to spell... I really don't care weather you agree or not.... Don't be sexist MJM.... I spend no time up anyones butt.... Maybe you should start thinking for yourself and not for Marion.... LOL
 

(3)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:53 am
And a hearty congratulations to OUR president, that's right, YOUR president and mine, Barack Hussein Obama for winning the Nobel Peace Prize...... A hearty and well deserved slap in the face of every Fox news and Limbaugh fan. I can just imagine Limbaugh's face turning beet red and the froth coming out of his mouth as animal control tranquilizes and cages him.

CONGRATULATIONS PRESIDENT OBAMA! HAIL TO THE CHIEF!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/09/nobel.peace.prize/index.html
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 10:01 am
That's right, Thomas. CONGRATULATIONS TO PRESIDENT OBAMA!!! And Congratulations to the USA for having such an OUTSTANDING leader!! He represents the BEST of what this country is about: Humanitarian, Progress, Education, Science, Achievement, Democracy and so much more.

The Nobel Committee said he won it for "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between peoples". The committee highlighted Mr Obama's efforts to support international bodies and promote nuclear disarmament.

Of course, Limbaugh isn't taking this well at all. But who cares what Limbaugh thinks? He gets paid millions to put Obama down to the village idiots who eat crumbs and wonder where their next meal will come from. We're just happy and grateful that the image and respect of the USA is being raised.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 10:03 am
LOL... Thomas.... calm down.... what peace has obama brought?????... It's a joke... He just hasn't got it yet... LOL and please don't tell me he is my president.... You can't force him on me
 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 10:08 am
CONGRATULATIONS PRESIDENT OBAMA! HAIL TO THE CHIEF!

 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 10:20 am
If it comes down to spelling skills vs comprehension skills, I'll choose the latter. I see Miss O'Hara is only concerned with the former.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 10:21 am
Yes, MJM...

CONGRATULATIONS PRESIDENT OBAMA! HAIL TO THE CHIEF!
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Friday October 9, 2009, 10:27 am
There are trolls and there are trolls..... the EASIEST ones to deal with, are the ones who merely spew drivel, use obscene and swear words, and are obviously out of their minds..... just CANCEL 'em, that's all! Until they come ba-a-a-aaack!

The ones who back the Right Wing, however indirectly and with attempted "subtlety", are a different matter. They nominally do observe Care2's Code of Conduct.... they have learned that they had better!!! If they DO cross the line into personal attacks, they are OUT OF LINE like the others. Care2 standard is, to deal with a person's IDEAS and not attack the person.

However, there are these quasi-trolls, not as identifiable to everyone as the OBVIOUS trolls are, who add NOTHING to the discussion, and try to divert it into different channels. Sure, they have a nominal "right" to their Free Speech; but, why are they doing that HERE, interrupting a serious discussion going on? Are they trying to get you NOT to sign the petition? Do they have a stake in DEFENDING Hate Speech of the Right Wing? Do they actually have the gall to say that the Far Right does NOT INDULGE in Violence-Inciting Hate Speech? If so, they are LYING, LYING, LYING..... and we ALL know that!!!

We are NOT REQUIRED TO LISTEN to nonsense! Let 'em have their Free Speech ELSEWHERE!

Other nonsense diversions they use: Violence-Inciting Hate Speech by the Far Right is "ok" because the Left indulges in it, because others engage in it or have in the past, because "everybody" engages in it, because "there is no difference between the Right and the Left" or "there IS no such thing as the Far Right".....

These are propaganda and DIS-information attempts to "subtly" CONFUSE people and muddy the waters of discussion by attempting to hijack and to sidetrack the thread. These are EXACTLY THE TACTICS recommended by those Websites where the Agents of the Far Right go to get their marching orders.... I can't of course PROVE this is a "Far Right Conspiracy". They may not ALL be being PAID for this; some may be doing it out of mis-placed "patriotism" or "religiosity". But the RESULT is just the same.....

People should know that there is a long HISTORY of Far Right-Wing efforts to DIS-inform, both on and off the Internet; and a long HISTORY of that on Care2, also. {I should know!} OF COURSE the Far Right Wing is NOT going to IGNORE such a powerful tool as the Internet; and Care2!!! We have been spotted on their radar; and must always know that we are forever being targetted by their non-stop never-never-ending PROPAGANDA.

One KEY to identifying the concerted, organized Far Right effort is, their claim that ANYONE "Black" or "African-American", from Obama to Marion!, is "playing the Race Card"....... In this way, the Far Right has learned to STIR UP RACIAL FEARS in white people, of "revenge" for past mis-treatment..... which is ABSURD, of course, but these fears are mainly unconscious, which is why that tactic of theirs has some effectiveness among their followers.......

How to deal with this Far Right presence, disguised or not-so-disguised, on this discussion thread? I think the correct thing is being done, DON'T LET THEM HIJACK THE THREAD AND DIVERT IT INTO OTHER CHANNELS.
Remember, this thread STARTED OUT by this FORMERLY FAR-RIGHT PASTOR seeing the ERROR OF HIS WAYS; and URGING US ALL to BEWARE THE FAR RIGHT HATE-SPEWERS AND VIOLENCE INCITERS. THAT is the subject that this thread is all about!
 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 10:40 am
BMutiny, your astute observations rival Marions' own.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 10:42 am
Barbara ~ You are my HERO and I am proud to be your friend!!! I encourage everyone to read your post again and again for comprehension because it is quite an education and teaching tool to pass on to others. We will encounter these trolls again and again. Barbara outlines how to deal with trolls and recognize them.

KUDOS to you, Barbara!!!
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:05 am
LMFAO.......I am proud to be called Ms. O'Hara

However, there are these quasi-trolls, not as identifiable to everyone as the OBVIOUS trolls are, who add NOTHING to the discussion, and try to divert it into different channels. Sure, they have a nominal "right" to their Free Speech; but, why are they doing that HERE, interrupting a serious discussion going on? Are they trying to get you NOT to sign the petition? Do they have a stake in DEFENDING Hate Speech of the Right Wing? Do they actually have the gall to say that the Far Right does NOT INDULGE in Violence-Inciting Hate Speech? If so, they are LYING, LYING, LYING..... and we ALL know that!!!

Why are you afraid of freedom of speech????? You can sign whatever you want.... I have the right to say what I want and it is not lies....
 

Judy Cross (83)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:11 am
Boy, are you being played.

Obama is just as much a sock puppet as Bush was.

If he gets assasinated it is an excuse to bring in foreign troops.

The NWO put a man in place who refuses to show the evidence that he is even eligible to be Senator...let alone Prez.

It's like none of you ever heard of FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS.

They just gave him a NOBEL PEACE PRIZE for continuing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
They gave one to Al Gore to...for another scam.

The dollar is going down and the BIGGEST DEPRESSION EVER is about to hit you.

They WANT YOU TO FIGHT EACH OTHER....they certainly don't want you uniting against them.

Peacefully demonstrate against what is happening and get teargassed while the police run hooded men in black do violence to discredit you.

Go get your vaccinations and watch your "carbon footprint" while you look for Violent Rightwing Fundamentalists under the bed!

 

Cynthia not well (340)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:12 am
You cannot currently send a star to BMutiny because you have done so within the last week.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:15 am
Barack Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize

In a surprise move, the Nobel Peace Prize was given to Barack Obama, making him only the third sitting American president to win the prize. The award was given for “his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples.” The committee particularly noted his efforts to reduce the world’s nuclear arsenal.

While often the award is given for past achievements, this award was given as a recognition that ideas matter, and in order to further promote Obama’s views on international relations. The award is also seen as recognition of the significant change in direction for the United States with the replacement of George Bush and Dick Cheney with Barack Obama.

It is remarkable for Obama to have won the award so early in his presidency. Two previous sitting presidents, Theodore Roosevelt in 1906 and Woodrow Wilson in 1919, have won the award. In addition, Jimmy Carter won the award following his term in office in 2002 and former Vice President Al Gore won the award in 2007.

Obama first heard about winning the award in a wake up call from press secretary Robert Gibbs, who had learned about this from members of the media. The news has been received by considerable world praise. It was also greeted by opposition by some with valid concerns, and with outrage by those who oppose American values including Hamas, the Taliban, and many American conservatives. This award not only represents a repudiation of conservative views, but is contrary to their goals.

Following is the statement of the committee on the announcement of the award:

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama’s vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama’s initiative, the United States is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world’s attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world’s population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world’s leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama’s appeal that “now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges.”

--------------

The efforts of Frank Schaeffer and those of us signing on to this campaign go hand in hand with Obama's peacekeeping mission to reach out to the world and extend a hand toward cooperation and peace.
 

Cynthia not well (340)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:15 am
WOW Judy Paranoid much?
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:20 am
You are right Judy.... Nobel Peace Prize for Obama... That's a joke what has he done but tucked tail... Just like Clinton did....
 

Robert S. (115)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:24 am
Part of a larger comment by Roger Ebert

There have always been nuts. Remember when the John Birch society thought Kennedy was a communist? In those innocent days most of the American people were reasonable. They’d shake their heads in wonder at such a weird notion. Kennedy might be one of those liberals, but he wasn’t a commie. And when people said Johnson murdered Kennedy? Also ridiculous. But slowly, ominously, things began to change. After his death, it was said that Edward Kennedy was a Soviet agent. These theories have rabid subscribers.

Obama is a Muslim. Obama was born in Kenya. Obama was a terrorist. Obama will destroy Medicare. Obama will kill your grandmother. Obama is a racist. Obama wants atheism taught in the schools. Obama wants us to pay for the health care of illegal immigrants.

These beliefs are held by various segments of our population. They are absurd. Any intelligent person can see they are absurd. It is not my purpose here to debate them, because such debates are futile. With the zealous True Believers there is no debating. They feed upon loops within loops of paranoid surmises, inventions which are passed along as fact. Sometimes those citing them don’t even seem to care if you believe them. Sometimes they may not believe them themselves. The purpose is to fan irrational hatred against our president.

What are we to make of the recent suggestion on the “respected” right-wing site NewsMax, later withdrawn, that “it might not be such a bad thing” if the U. S. military rose up and overthrew Obama in a coup? That sort of talk belongs on a password-protected neo-Nazi or Klan site, not in a place where ostensibly intelligent people look for information. Where were the editors? What did they think? If they’re “conservatives,” do they support the overthrow of our government by a coup?

I don’t really think so. But I believe they will stoop to almost anything to fan the flames of their cause. And they have created a timidity in the mainstream Republican party, afraid to alienate a “base” it should be ashamed of. When Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act, he is said to have observed that with one signature he had lost his Democrats the South. It took moral courage to sign that bill. He did indeed lose the Southern racists, who were to its shame embraced by the GOP – a poisoned pill, it is becoming obvious.

 

chris b. (2474)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:25 am
Good job Mr President and the Nobel Peace Prize,'from the whale killers! I'm almost of a mind to put on my uniform and whip up a smart naval salute whilst playing the US National Anthem! How about taking on the job of British Prime Minister as well? We will have a vacancy shortly and there are no suitable contenders from the left, right or centre! Probably be disqualified in the UK for having too much British ancestry! You May have noticed most of our leaders including the opposition are not English! The English don't even have home rule! Well that's taken it way off track. In Norway where they have real Trolls that inhabit the woods and come in all shapes and sizes many are benign and a few are malevolant QED. I am getting somewhat confused by this thread as I would not have thought any one with right wing leanings would not want to take part in a discussion aimed at inhibiting the more lunatic elements of the right because by doing so one assumes they either acknowledge their existance or even offer them succour! However if they are opposed to the extreme elements on the right then I would have expected them to state their case accordingly or remain observers! As to propagating violence via these noisy TV commentators I am fortunate in only having access to quality broadcast output with excellent reportage and minimal bias and when the election party politicals come on I can switch them off or go make a nice cup of tea! It's sometimes good to self censor! I also wonder if someone has cloned Dr Goebbals with some of the hateful propaganda that does perculate the airwaves, even in my cloistered environment! Certainly Herr Hitler propagated violence against Jews, Blacks, Gays, Disabled and any others that did not conform to his idea of world order, Krystallnacht for example was primarily carried out by the thick empty headed thugs he surrounded himself with at the start of his political career, sort of German rednecks and later of course he had rednecks from UK, France Hungary and many other countries of Europe at his beck and call with special national SS Units bearing insignia of the nations they were drawn from so there are always those from every country that will throw in their lot with thuggery and it is these sort of aimless idiots that are likely to be influenced by the mad ramblings of the noxious elements of the media. Already predisposed to violent activities like hunting animals and similar abuses they are easy prey for the lunatic fringe and their cohorts and a good reason for introducing TNS to the feral human population never mind "Terrorist" cats!
 

Sir Walk F. (124)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:28 am
Wow, it's funny that the so-called conservatives on here think threatening the President's life is 'free speech'.

But, i guess i shouldnt be surprised. These are the same people who believed everything bush said and now pretend they never supported him.
 

Cynthia not well (340)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:30 am
How very will put Marion.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:31 am
LOL... Robert Gibbs.... He is another one of Obama's puppets.... He is joke in the white house..... Let's get serious now!!!!!
 

Nancy L. (141)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:43 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Judy because you have done so within the last week.
 

Dragonfly Kid (17)
Friday October 9, 2009, 11:50 am
egads Marion and MJM, what a compliment to your power to be slammed so profusely by the rightie calvary that came in to back up NE L. They do that on other sites too, I won't mention any names of which sites, but James will back up Steve, and Steve backs up James, it's nauseating BECAUSE IT's CONTRIVED and not genuine. That's the difference between a Troll's argument and an honest to goodness dissenter, it has to do with being honest and speaking the truth from your heart, not spouting talking points to disrupt a GENUINE conversation. I'll debate all day with someone who is being honest in their beliefs, but the disingenuous feigned outrage, I'll pass.
 

Nancy L. (141)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:02 pm
Well people. I'll leave you to your back and forth on who is more hateful than who. I am going on VACATION!!!

We are leaving early in the morning and will return on the 19th.

If my laptop is repaired today I will keep in touch. Have a great week, I know you all will miss me.
 

. (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:08 pm
Scalett,NE,Mark G,Judy and last but certainly not least the beautiful Dar:)
A gazillion green stars to you all.
All great points on this petition is not about ending violence,but about ending Free Speech.
If it was truly geared to ending violence it would base it's list of points being made to inculde the whole spetrum of supposed "Hate Speech" that is being made in this country.Not just trying to silence one side.
That is the real difference.
During Bush's years there were tons of threats on his life.
Zack De la Roacha from "Rage Aginst the Machine" (one of my favorite bands by the way) at a concert told the audience that someone needed to "Shot Bush in the head."

During the whole Carrie Preajan fiasco ,Alan Duncan is a Member of Parliament in Great Britain said this about the Conservative Miss California...
“If you read that Miss California is murdered,you will know it was me.”
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/uk-member-of-parliament-says-he-may-kill-miss-california-kills-career-instead

Just a couple of examples of "Hate Speech" against Conservatives.
The demands also in the petition if full filled can and would be used to stop any type of speech that disagrees with the Left.
The real problem that people do not seem to acknowledge is that if this petition actually comes to pass,is what will happen to their own freedom of speech if the Right once again takes control of the government.
Just as Bush's "patriot Act" called anyone who disagreed with the war the same as the Terrorist that attacked us,Obama is now using the Patriot Act for his purposes as well.
It is not something that he or his adminstration has decided to do away with as they promised during the campaign.Now Conservatives are kicking their selves in the rear about it.
Whether we agree or disagree with others we can not fall prey to political jocking that will at any given point take the freedoms of ANY person or group.
As long as people have the right to run around and say whatever they want,even if it is hateful.
Then we still retain our rights to fight such things.
This is not about which side is Right or wrong.
This is simply about our freedoms.
And those freedoms are what we need to protect.
Green stars peeps:)
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:14 pm
stop being a jerk MJM
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:14 pm
"These beliefs are held by various segments of our population. They are absurd. Any intelligent person can see they are absurd. It is not my purpose here to debate them, because such debates are futile. With the zealous True Believers there is no debating. They feed upon loops within loops of paranoid surmises, inventions which are passed along as fact. Sometimes those citing them don’t even seem to care if you believe them. Sometimes they may not believe them themselves. The purpose is to fan irrational hatred against our president. "

Robert ~ Thanks for posting this EXCELLENT article by Roget Ebert! Yes, the right wing will "stoop to anything" for their cause...ANYTHING! All the more reason why this campaign to end violence is so important.


Chris B ~ Forgive us here in the USA. It was embarrassing enough we had a sadistic nitwit for a leader these past 8 years whose father paid the university to push him through for an education he drank through. Bush left behind devastation in his wake, including these lunatic fringers who wish he were still president who continue to embarrass this nation. I hope you know they represent less than 20% of the population. I'm surprised it's not more since we have a 40% illiteracy rate below a 4th grade education level, which can clearly be seen in this thread.


Sir Walk F said: "These are the same people who believed everything bush said and now pretend they never supported him. "

Yes, but...they are unconsciously repeating Bush's message...and that message is not lost on the rest of us. We remember and we will never forget how they dropped this country to its knees...and took the world down with them.


If I have forgotten a supportive message from any of you, please know I am GRATEFUL to you for your COURAGE, WISDOM and EFFORTS to stand against the opposing forces and do the right thing for our country. This is our home and our relationship with our neighbors overseas (and next door) is critical to our survival on this planet. I would be honored to live next door to any of you, my friends!
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:18 pm
MJM ~ Great minds...
 

Judy Cross (83)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:33 pm
Pretending that Obama isn't being run by the same crew bankrupting your country will get you nowhere. except perhaps the label "apparachik".

Bush was put in place for you to hate and Obama to love. It is pure theater. AIPAC is still calling the shots as they pretend Iran is interested in a bomb. Nancy Pelosi has a personal fortune of half a billion and Al Gore threw the election (remember how he treated the Black Caucus when they begged him not to concede?) and then went on to collect a fortune of $100 million pushing global warrming.

The Masters of the Federal Reserve and Secretaries of the Treasury have come from Goldman Sachs which Gore is related to by marriage.....BUT ITS ALL COINCIDENCE!

Gangsters have been in charge of the US government for a very long time.

Your enemy IS your government...no matter who is in power.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:37 pm
"it's nauseating BECAUSE IT's CONTRIVED and not genuine. That's the difference between a Troll's argument and an honest to goodness dissenter, it has to do with being honest and speaking the truth from your heart, not spouting talking points to disrupt a GENUINE conversation. I'll debate all day with someone who is being honest in their beliefs, but the disingenuous feigned outrage, I'll pass."

Dragonfly Kid ~ BRAVO!! You make too much sense! It's why most of us see the feigned tears of Glenn Beck, whereas his supporters feel sorry for him. Little do they know he cries hoping his base doesn't catch on to his lies, and he really cries for fear of losing his hefty payroll. And this is the man who called Obama "a racist!"

For the record, me and MJM owe a debt of gratitude to ALL of you who support this campaign and have left OUTSTANDING comments and wisdom. I am overwhelmed by the courage and hearts I have seen here in the past two days. I am even grateful to the trolls, quasi-trolls and wannabe trolls because had they not voiced opposition, we would not have seen first hand the ignorance, bigotry and hatred that exists in the USA and is represented by a small group at Care2.

MJM ~ In no way does this lessen my GRATITUDE to you, my friend!

As another dear friend, Serge, said above that begs repeating...

"It is the spiritual truth and awakening happening RIGHT NOW, ALL ways bringing all this negativity, abuse of power, etc. to the surface to be cleansed , transmuted and healed. It would almost be comical except for the folks who are "suffering"and in pain because of it, my heart goes out to them as they take the NECCESSARY steps in finding out who they REALLY are.

As hard as it is to believe for some, these right wing folks serve the divine plan in the"end". WE create OUR own REALities, every minute of every hour , everyday, CONCIOUSly or UNconsciously.


Happiness is a decision, not an experience. Love is not a reaction, LOVE IS a decision. YOU CAN love ANYONE you choose, including Y-OURself, all THE TIME AND allWAYS.:):):)"


Yes, Serge...and the Universe is unfolding as it should...
 

Annie J. (205)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:49 pm
This I find quite disturbing along with the lack of attention from the media....

http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/1271483






 

Annie J. (205)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:51 pm
sorry, I though it would show up as a link....it's my share
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 12:56 pm
http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/1271483

Thank you, BigCatRescue! This is EXACTLY why Frank Schaeffer started this campaign against violence and why many of us here have signed on. The trolls in this thread would like to brainwash us into thinking this terrorism does not exist. It does and its running rampant throughout the USA in pockets.
 

(3)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:00 pm
"LOL and please don't tell me he is my president.... You can't force him on me "

Yes we can! The voters shoved him right down your throat and up yer heiny!
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:01 pm
Dragonfly Kid, are you DARING to SUGGEST there may be a "Right-Wing Conspiracy" when you say these nutjobs "back each other up", that there's a "rightie cavalry"??? ;-]
{"Calvary" is Jesus on the Cross; "Cavalry" is a word that comes from Norman-French "cheval", meaning "horse", I'm sure that's what you meant! "Here comes the U.S. CAVALRY....!" Easy to confuse......!} ;-]
Hmmmn, I've long "suspected" they have their own "network"..... "talking points", Uh Huh. Well, enuf of that!

Yes, in Germany, the Hatred aroused in ordinary Germans against the Jews, Gays, Slavs, Gypsies, Disabled, and others, was preceded by YEARS of Speech and Rhetoric: these targetted groups were "Untermenschen" {Sub-humans not worthy of human consideration}; "Useless Eaters", "Vermin" {accompanied by pictures of swarming rats}, "Christ-Killers", etc. etc. When violence really DID come about, the years of unopposed Reviling speech had had a PARALYZING effect and by that time, nobody was ready to RESIST. Mass Violence actually HAPPENED, as it was encouraged and prepared for {by the Right}; and by the time it DID HAPPEN, by then it was TOO LATE.

Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda, and all his studious helpers, actually KNEW what they were about; they KNEW their business well, basing their rabid spewings not on "random choices", but rather on the latest research in Psychology and how to sway under-educated semi-literate masses by means of emotion......

Similarly, in Rwanda, the massacre of the Tutsis by the Hutus, was instigated by rabid speeches nonstop on the radio for MONTHS, Hutu spokespeople calling the other racial/tribal group "cockroaches" and similarly routinely degrading them and denying them humanity. {As is shown for example in the film, "Hotel Rwanda", an account BASED ON AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND THE TRUTH.}

Yes, this proves that HATE SPEECH DOES INDEED HAVE CONSEQUENCES. AND, that it MUST be stopped BEFORE those consequences start coming about! In the case of the Far-Right talk-show Violence-Inciting Hate Speech, there have ALREADY BEEN SEVERAL incidents of violence, including MURDER; for example, violence and threats against Abortion Providers, including MURDER of Dr. Tiller as merely the most recent of the incidents.

Make no mistake: those here on this thread, as well as those on the Far Right who want INCITEMENT TO MURDER TO BE COUNTED AS "FREE SPEECH", are PERFECTLY WILLING, HAPPY IN FACT, TO SUPPORT LETHAL VIOLENCE IN FURTHERANCE OF THEIR "CAUSES".
Actually, how does it figure that they belong on Care2 at all?????? In their SUPPORT OF TALK RADIO THAT SUPPORTS, AND ACTUALLY INSTIGATES ACTUAL INSTANCES OF, LETHAL VIOLENCE AGAINST TARGETTED GROUPS???
{Those "Targetted Groups" including anybody to the Left of Rush Limbaugh; anybody FOR organizing for Human Rights and Justice for All.}

Those supporting and defending Violence-Inciting Hate Speech {or "supporting and defending" it, by trying to make the case that "IT DOES NOT EXIST!" when that is a plain obvious NON-FACTUAL LIE!}, they would actually LOVE to see the United States of America writhing in the CHAOS of Kristallnacht and Rwanda during its massacres.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:02 pm
LOL... doesn't that violate my constitution... No... he is not my president... I did not vote for him
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:09 pm
Marion... why do you and Obama feel you have to keep apologizing for America? If you two don't like here... you and anyone else can leave... The door is open...I am sick of all these so called american who whine about what America has done... Like I said... the door is open... you are free to move out...
 

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:11 pm
I see so much of ignorance in the world but nothing beats this one here....maybe the Obama haters are jealous... Its disgusting to see how they can say anything but good things about a man like him who has made history and is recognised in the world even at a Noble peace prize winner..... thanks for the petition Marion
 

(3)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:13 pm
And we're sick of having to apologize for the likes of you. We're staying, and we'd like to have good reason to be proud of our country for a change, after the last 8 miserable years. Voting Barack Obama as OUR PRESIDENT was a good first step.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:15 pm
Way to go, Thomas. I wanted to say that so bad.
 

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:17 pm
FANTASTIC THOMAS GOOD GOING THERE!!!!!
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:20 pm
I thought these posts are to debate,,,NOT to sit here and bash each one on their particular beieifs...OMG...Maybe if you took a little from the right and a little from the left you could have something perfect then maybe just maybe you all would quit all this fussin going on in here. There is not one of you here that is 100% correct nor 100% wrong...So why can you just listen to what each other says and comback with a POLITE RESPONSE TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND!!!!! Geeeeeezzzzzzzzzz

Gorilly
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:20 pm
"the latest research in Psychology and how to sway under-educated semi-literate masses by means of emotion...... "

Together with a lack of jobs, loss of homes and a collapsed economy, these people are at a fever pitch and ready to blame anyone as declared by the loudest voices. Even if we HAD jobs to offer in the USA, most of the 40% illiterates in this nation could not qualify for a job where most require reading, writing, comprehension and computing skills. Rather than pick themselves up, get the skills necessary, they resort to scorched earth tactics per their talking heads - Beck and Limbaugh. This is the ultimate in ignorance and laziness. Comments like this illustrate this point well...

"LOL... doesn't that violate my constitution... No... he is not my president... I did not vote for him "


Oh what fools these mortals be...
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:24 pm
LOL Thomas... please don't apologize for me... I have nothing to apologize to "likes of you"....I am also staying and I am proud of my country.... First amendment...
 

Bette M. (91)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:26 pm
I concurr.......There are no locked doors wherever you are.

And.......You have the freedom to leave and clone another place after
your own ideals & wasted political self serving philosophies.

Plant trees for life.......

My words, thoughts and opinions are gauranteed by the U.S. Constitution
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:28 pm
"The door is open...I am sick of all these so called american who whine about what America has done... Like I said... the door is open... you are free to move out..."

Have you forgotten? Obama IS the President of the United States of America. He is MY president. Since he is not YOUR president, the door is ready for YOU to leave. I have served over 20 years as a military vet, taught students computing skills and to get jobs on a college level and done extensive volunteer work in the community. I love this country, have fought for it -- including your right to act STUPID, served the citizens and have served the most idiotic president of all time in this nation. I am EXTREMELY grateful to have now a leader who represents the humanity, intelligence and views of most Americans. I'm not going anywhere.

What have YOU done for your country? Since you don't seem to like America, what country will you move to with your bigoted views?

Get a recorder and listen to yourself sometime...
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:30 pm
Marion, I am not under-educated just because I did not vote for Obama.... In other words... like all demos... if i don't agree with you... I am under educated... racists...
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:34 pm
Well I can sure admit that I am under-educated when it comes to anything political...LOL This all confuses me...now I know why.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:34 pm
"I see so much of ignorance in the world but nothing beats this one here....maybe the Obama haters are jealous... Its disgusting to see how they can say anything but good things about a man like him who has made history and is recognised in the world even at a Noble peace prize winner..... thanks for the petition Marion"

Thanks for signing, Yvonne. Yes, it is disgusting. It's also embarrassing for our foreign friends like you see the racism, bigotry and hatred that eats away at a group of people here in this nation and in this thread who have no idea who they really area.

Yet, the louder they get the more I realize Obama is getting his agenda through and angering them more. These people are small minded bullies and sore losers. As for the rest of us, we're HAPPY and THRILLED Bush is gone and we have a REAL leader!!!
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:35 pm
Marion... I am a "First" American.... my people were here first.... I will not leave my mother land.... LMAO.... Like I said... Just because I didn't vote for Obama... I am now stupid???? I have done more for the mother earth then you will ever know....
 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:36 pm
I hear you, Marion. That peticular comment was quite disturbing. 'he is not my president'. That must have been a foreignor that said that. If not, they should take a refresher course in Civics. Are they still teaching that in school? Some of these comments would point to no.

Isn't that the battle cry of these anarchists that would have the President dead?
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:38 pm
Marion someday you will have to explain all this to me so I can understand...

Not one person here Yvonne is ignorant no one.

Big Gorilly Hugs
 

Marion Y. (322)
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:42 pm
Gorilly Girl ~ At some point, we are ALL ignorant of something...

Ignorant:
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.
 

Scarlett P. (126)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:45 pm
No Yvonne no one here is ignorant.... big gorilly hugs to you too....

MJM... I am more American here than anyone.... i am Cherokee and this is my mother land.... LOL... Battle cry.... words from a yankee... LOL
 

Nancy M. (202)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:47 pm
Marion, it is so disheartening that they don't get the point.

Whether I liked it or not, George W. Bush was my President. I didn't vote for him either time, but in 2000, we all gave him a chance. We felt we could express our opinions, but I for one never wanted him dead. There may have been extreme opposition to him, but it was never expressed in a hateful manner intended to incite violence.

Now we have a new President. This one I did vote for. And he is my President just as all the others have been,. WHY? Because I am an American citizen. And I am free to express opinions about those Presidents. I am free to agree and disagree with them and to express those agreements and disagreements.

Some are making this out a conservative versus democrat or whatever. And they MISS THE POINT. And they apparently think that this is about silencing their views. It isn't. They don't have to like President Obama, They don't have to agree with president Obama; they are free to express dislike of anything Obama does. And I am sure that you , Marion, would not be flagging them if that is what they did.

All they have to do is STOP the inciteful hateful speech calling for murder of the President and various other politicians, and various ethnic groups. IT IS SO SIMPLE.

So, your question above is valid: "why are they here opposing a campaign to make America safer? "
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:49 pm
'he is not my president"

MJM ~ This is ASTOUNDING news to hear. Here's a comment from another site that reflects my thoughts on this:

"President Barack Obama is the President of the United States and that includes ALL of its citizens. To say otherwise is to disrespect the votes of your fellow American citizens and the democratic nature of your country, itself.

When Bush was President, I vociferously railed against him. I despised Bush and all his policies. (Turns out I was dead-on right, too!) But I NEVER ONCE said, "He's not my President." He was my President, and that made most of his bumbles even more embarrassing to me. But I suffered through it, knowing that the American people felt the same way I did and that I had a process to make sure that he couldn't repeat his mistakes. i said things like, 'Yeah, he's my President. Sorry about that." and "Yeah, I know he's an idiot, but he's still President." But I never said, "He's not MY President," because I knew that would dishonor my country.

Only two people in the United States can rightly say, "He's not my President," about President Obama:

One's an illegal alien ... and the other one's a traitor!
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:50 pm
This is kinda obvious..... when some individual, AS an individual, whether a "celebrity" or a non-celebrity, whether in "public" or in private, says "Assassinate Bush" or "Kill Kennedy" or some other stupid, thoughtless statement of that nature, that is ONE thing. We can let it pass.

However, when a MAJOR RADIO NETWORK, OR RADIO NETWORKS, whether in Germany, in Rwanda, or in the United States, promulgates such HATE SPEECH DAY AFTER DAY, WEEK AFTER WEEK, MONTH AFTER MONTH, YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR; THEN, that SHOULD be looked into. We need to look at the ADVERTISERS, THE SPONSORS, THE OWNERS OF THE NETWORKS; and see what their REAL AGENDAS are. Repeat, their REAL AGENDAS.

I believe that the REAL AGENDAS of these Radio Talkers are, among other things:
to MURDER OUTSPOKEN INDIVIDUALS {by PROXY; and be able then to say, Oh, my goodness gracious me, I didn't MEAN to be taken so literally!};
to INTIMIDATE INTO SILENCE any opposition, by ENCOURAGING SUCH MURDERS AND SUCH THREATS OF VIOLENCE;
to CREATE A STATE OF CONSTANT PUBLIC CHAOS, OF CONSTANT FEAR;

and, finally, to OVERTHROW OUR DEMOCRACY --
the final purpose being, so that their real masters, the MEGA-CORPORATIONS, will have full sway to DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THE WORLD'S RESOURCES, ENVIRONMENT AND THE WORLD'S PEOPLES.

FASCISM is the UNITING of BIG BUSINESS AND THE {ARMED AND TOTALITARIAN} STATE. LOOK IT UP, folks!

FORTUNATELY, thank goodness for our climate of Freedom, our opportunities for Education and Self-education that are at least AVAILABLE, our REAL FREEDOM OF SPEECH that we are EXERCISING HERE AND NOW:

NOT ALL BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE EVIL. NOT ALL MILITARY ARE EVIL. NOT ALL MINISTERS OF THE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL ARE EVIL OR MIS-LED. NOT ALL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO BE MIS-LED INTO FASCISM BY TALK SHOW HOSTS HOWEVER PERSISTENT AND OBNOXIOUS AND PLAYING ON SUB-CONSCIOUS EMOTIONS.

This is why we must UNITE, as we are doing HERE AND NOW, AGAINST these Disturbers of the Peace, and of Civilized Society. They are no more than CRIMINALS. We don't "unite" peaceful good people and RAPISTS, for example!

This is NOT your traditional "Right vs. Left" controversy.
It is REALLY MIS-LEADING to "frame" it as if it were that!!!
It has ALREADY been pointed out over & over, here & elsewhere, that DECENT Republicans are REPUDIATING these Hate-Spewing Radicals who have it seems, TAKEN OVER the remains of the Republican Party from those decent people who used to be there! {And the Republicans are much to blame for allowing this to happen.}

We use the terminology "Right-Wing", because that is traditional; if you don't want to use that terminology, fine. Just say "FASCIST", then. Whatever it is, it is ANTI-HUMAN. Back to the Stone Age; and maybe our Stone Age ancestors were actually more enlightened in some ways!

The Left has done & said some bad things too, of course. But, right now anyway, they just don't have the POWER, the POWER to reach a MASS AUDIENCE, the POWER OF ENORMOUS WEALTH BACKING THEM UP. {Maybe the advertisers leaving Hate-Spewing Radio Hosts won't make THAT much of a difference! However, it DOES show the way Public Opinion is going; so it is a good thing to pursue, anyway!}

Wow, it is really WEIRD to see the way the Apologists for Right-Wing Talk Show Violence-Inciting Hate Radio, the way they twist & turn to try to find some JUSTIFICATION for SUPPORTING that Hate-Spewing!
I guess NONE of those people was ever a Tutsi.
 

Dragonfly Kid (17)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:51 pm
Scarlett, you are Cherokee? So am I. How funny we end up on opposite sides it seems.

And B.Mutiny, your correction is duly noted, I always get Calvalry and Cavalry mixed up. Thanks for correcting me instead of letting me go on with that. :)

Gorilly, you need to read MJM's article on Trolls so you can get up to speed. And B. Mutiny, yes, there are paid trolls who take glee in coming on our liberal blogs and web sites wagging their finger about free speech while they trash Obama. See, they just don't want us to have any glory or be proud of the good things we are trying to accomplish. A true Troll has no interest in factual dialog, they only want to disagree and derail the conversation.

My brother in law used to tell me "Bush is YOUR president and you should show him respect." I love my brother in law. Now, he trashes Obama too.

Let the wheat be separated from the chaffe by their words and their works. I don't blindly agree with everything Obama says and does, but I'm bright enough to recognize a transformational figure and a possible advocate for the people.

We will soon see how Obama backs up his word every time. We grow weary of him placating the right and worrying about what they think, and I'm sure he does too. He's a good man, and disagree with his policies all you like, but cast unearned aspersions and you'll have to deal with me!
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:54 pm
Okay this is why I hardley post on politics now i really feel stupid....Sorry guys...

Big Gorilly Hugs

Simole girl with simple heart trying to just get everyone to get along...My bad
 

Dragonfly Kid (17)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:00 pm
Oh! Gorilly! Don't go away! We need your genuine insights. It's just that as savvy blogospherians, we have to be aware when there's something nasty in the woodshed (re: Trolls) so we don't waste our time and get sidetracked. BIG GORILLY HUG TO YOU! :)
 

Carol Anne Knapp (123)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:02 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Marion because you have done so within the last week. and GG you are doing a bang up job of getting everyone to get along, I applaud you..
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:06 pm
"Some are making this out a conservative versus democrat or whatever. And they MISS THE POINT. And they apparently think that this is about silencing their views. It isn't. They don't have to like President Obama, They don't have to agree with president Obama; they are free to express dislike of anything Obama does. And I am sure that you, Marion, would not be flagging them if that is what they did.

All they have to do is STOP the inciteful hateful speech calling for murder of the President and various other politicians, and various ethnic groups. IT IS SO SIMPLE.

So, your question above is valid: "why are they here opposing a campaign to make America safer? "

Hey, Nancy, you SUMMED IT UP in about a TENTH of the words I used!
[Hey, people, if I don't give you all Green Stars you deserve right away -- or answer your Network Messages, it's because my computer is acting a bit strange at times! But I'll get around to it!}

There is a thing called "FRAMING". Those trying to make out this concerted and valuable Anti-Hate effort to be OTHER THAN WHAT IT IS, are trying to put a different sort of "FRAME" around the topic.
THANK YOU, Nancy, for putting it plainly the way you did!!!
 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:08 pm
Frankly Scarlett, I DO give a damn. I give a damn that you would disrespect OUR President and OUR Constitution. That you would give fodder to these racist bigots that this thread attempts to expose, only shows you are just as much a danger to America as the rest of them.

You have lost any remaning respect I might have had for you. Not 'Your' President. You are no American.

 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:22 pm
TRAITOR
n. One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.

TREASON
1. Treason, sedition mean disloyalty or treachery to one's country or its government. Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government. Sedition is any act, writing, speech, etc., directed unlawfully against state authority, the government, or constitution, or calculated to bring it into contempt or to incite others to hostility, ill will or disaffection; it does not amount to treason and therefore is not a capital offense. 2. See disloyalty.

DISLOYALTY
1. faithlessness, subversion. Disloyalty, perfidy, treachery, treason imply betrayal of trust. Disloyalty applies to any violation of loyalty, whether to a person, a cause, or one's country, and whether in thought or in deeds: to suspect disloyalty in a friend. Perfidy implies deliberate breaking of faith or of one's pledges and promises, on which others are relying: It is an act of perfidy to cheat innocent people. Treachery implies being secretly traitorous but seeming friendly and loyal: In treachery deceit is added to disloyalty. Treason is performing overt acts to help the enemies of one's country or government: Acting to aid a hostile power is treason.

...

Note: these are terms I learned as a military veteran while serving our country. Regardless who is the president, we make an oath to serve our president, our country and its citizens. For every soldier who is fighting wars for American citizens (whether you support those wars or not), to tell them "he is not my president" is an act of treason in their eyes and says you don't give a whit about their lives.

This is what I mean by "ignorant." Ignorant people shoot their mouths off repeating what others tell them to say, or shoot from the hip without thinking through their words. Words have consequences.

Like MJM, I have no respect for anyone who says "he is not my president."
 

Robert S. (115)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:37 pm
Judy Cross - "Your enemy IS your government...no matter who is in power."

Though I agree with the premise that gangsters are behind much of what goes on no matter who is in power, the change I see and feel between Obama and Bush is palpable, real, and substantive in terms of tone and action. He is tolerated by the "gangsters” because to crush his and our decent, outright would shatter the illusion of our governments autonomy. This is an extremely important illusion to keep alive as it placates a huge populous who would otherwise need to be subdued by other means. So within the illusion and the need to keep it alive, we and Obama enjoy some latitude. Enjoy it. In the real world, that latitude is all the freedom we will ever have short of the gamble that violent cataclysmic revolution may improve things. Short of that, if Obama steps down too hard on the gangster interests, as Kennedy did... another “lone gunman” is always a possibility and even the realization of our reduced dreams and hopes for change will be thrown back. Obama was not elected nor would he be allowed to change too much, but may be allowed to effect some change and allowed this latitude only as it does not threaten the real power too much. He knows that. I know that. The system is corrupt, run by money for monies sake. The illusion of our freedom to decide and change things is kept alive because it served the gangsters better than overt control with its probable resulting rebellion. The fact that those in control must attempt to keep the illusion alive is a mixed bag for all involved and Obama's efforts within this scenario so far give me hope and pride that even within an illusion, positive things can happen and while I admit that he and we must to some extent follow a script, which if we had written it would be different, we have by electing Obama been allowed some ability to edit. These edits to me, are like coming out of a cave into the sunlight. I think much of the world sees it the same way. Congratulations President Obama on you Noble Prize. Many here and in the larger world are grateful for your efforts.
 

chris b. (2474)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:40 pm
I'm not sure whether I've got this right but I was under the impression that in a democratic country like the UK or US whne a person is elected to office the the loser concedes defeat gracefully and pledges loyallty if not to the man or woman the office they hold and the followers of the losing party are expected to conform in the same way so whilst say half the ntion may not have voted for Mr Obama even if they are not mannered enought to respect hime surely they respect the office of President even if the disrespect the man who holds it! In the UK for example at lest half the population don't approve of Godon Brown and of course he was not elected into the office of Prime Minister but gained it by Tony Blair departing! However the same as I don't aprove of the Queens bloodsports activities but I respect the monarchy and lkewise the office of Prime Minister evne though at times I may have thought I could do a better job at half the salary! Thus unless somehow there is an opt out clause in the American constitution the same applies to US citizens regarding respect for the office of President which combines the role of the UK's Monarch and Prime Minister ie both the figurehead of the US and working administrator of the US and as such saying he is not my President is tantamount to treson and anarchy! I am also rather confused why a member of the First Nation should want to support Custer's mob! Albeit his most infamous actions where agiainst a different nation if my history serves me correctly?
 

CareTwo Support (463)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:45 pm
This thread is getting far out of hand. Please comment on the article and stop the personal attacks. There is no need for name calling and no reason to be so nasty and venomous towards each other. If this proceeds beyond a civil discussion I will be forced to take action against those that continue this pattern of nonsense and playground behavior.
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Friday October 9, 2009, 2:51 pm
Anyone wanna sing the Black Eye Peas song with me...Where is the love???

gorilly?????
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 3:03 pm
You are cute, Gorilly Girl. Thanks for the smiles.

Back to the topic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZV7Mdu6jV4">Rachael Maddow Interviews Frank Schaeffer about Right Wing Threats
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 3:09 pm
Nancy and Barbara ~ You have both said it well.

Chris B ~ You raise good points. I wonder too.

Robert ~ I couldn't agree with you more!

SEND A LETTER TO CONGRESS to stop domestic terrorism
 

(3)
Friday October 9, 2009, 3:42 pm
Good Frank Schaeffer interview.
 

Patricia R. (12)
Friday October 9, 2009, 3:47 pm
wow, great campaign. to stop domestic terror.
there are many nice to read essays here.
some people need to sleep.
unwind a bit.
wonderful to read that most wish to have peace at home =)
congrats on the prize, usa!
 

Robert S. (115)
Friday October 9, 2009, 4:35 pm
Thanks Marion for the Frank Schaeffer interview link. I found that interview and another additional interview by Maddow of Schaeffer on MSNBC, below. Thank you Rachael Maddow who gave me hope on Air America during the dark days of Bush and continues to do so today on AA and on MSNBC. Go Rachael!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show#31054073

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show#32337676

Also Thank you BMutiny for writing something I too was thinking. I can't improve on what you wrote. Well done. I repost part of your comment here in tribute to its truth
Friday October 9, 2009, 1:50 pm
This is kinda obvious..... when some individual, AS an individual, whether a "celebrity" or a non-celebrity, whether in "public" or in private, says "Assassinate Bush" or "Kill Kennedy" or some other stupid, thoughtless statement of that nature, that is ONE thing. We can let it pass.

However, when a MAJOR RADIO NETWORK, OR RADIO NETWORKS, whether in Germany, in Rwanda, or in the United States, promulgates such HATE SPEECH DAY AFTER DAY, WEEK AFTER WEEK, MONTH AFTER MONTH, YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR; THEN, that SHOULD be looked into. We need to look at the ADVERTISERS, THE SPONSORS, THE OWNERS OF THE NETWORKS; and see what their REAL AGENDAS are. Repeat, their REAL AGENDAS.

I believe that the REAL AGENDAS of these Radio Talkers are, among other things:
to MURDER OUTSPOKEN INDIVIDUALS {by PROXY; and be able then to say, Oh, my goodness gracious me, I didn't MEAN to be taken so literally!};
to INTIMIDATE INTO SILENCE any opposition, by ENCOURAGING SUCH MURDERS AND SUCH THREATS OF VIOLENCE;
to CREATE A STATE OF CONSTANT PUBLIC CHAOS, OF CONSTANT FEAR;

and, finally, to OVERTHROW OUR DEMOCRACY --
the final purpose being, so that their real masters, the MEGA-CORPORATIONS, will have full sway to DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THE WORLD'S RESOURCES, ENVIRONMENT AND THE WORLD'S PEOPLE
 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 4:48 pm
I don't usually post on these Note-it things anymore because they are just bait traps for some people to get their kicks.
To the conservatives who are insulted with this bait, just leave and let's post about this issue and the postings by those we disagree with in our own groups. It isn't worth the trouble to be baited by those who obviously don't know what the heck a Nobel Peace Prize is... lol.
See you in our groups!
Later.
 

Patti S. (10)
Friday October 9, 2009, 4:51 pm

The Mayor of Mount Vernon, WA decided on his own to honor Glenn Beck with a key to the City and proclaim 9/26/2009 "Glenn Beck Day." There were more people outside than inside with many wearing "Hate is not a Mount Vernon value" t-shirts. Many people are boycotting Mt. Vernon shops because of the mayor's action's. The non-partisan mayor Bud Norris likes Glenn Beck and says that he has not declared a political party. Beck says he is from Seattle 9- miles south when asked and made fun the the award on his show.
 

Nancy M. (202)
Friday October 9, 2009, 4:54 pm
"I'm not sure whether I've got this right but I was under the impression that in a democratic country like the UK or US whne a person is elected to office the the loser concedes defeat gracefully and pledges loyallty if not to the man or woman the office they hold and the followers of the losing party are expected to conform in the same way" Chris b.

You got it. Even when "W"" was appointed President by the Supreme Court in 2000, there was graciousness.

Certainly no death threats.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 5:02 pm
Former Evangelical Leader Frank Schaeffer: The Right Has Lost And Turned To Violence

Highlights from this video broken down into segments:

Frank Schaeffer Intro
Fundamentalist Foot Soldiers
American Mullahs
God Sent The Killer
Domestic Terrorists
Fringe Of The Fringe
FACE Act

I wrote down this transcript from the first video to see the value in watching the other videos. Long, but well worth your time in understanding what we are dealing with.

Crazy for God, by Frank Schaeffer

"The rise of the religious right in the 70s and 80s, was started by his father, the guru of the religious right as we know it. It's the story of a side kick to his evangelical father, who then became well known and came into a leadership position. Schaeffer became involved with Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, the 700 Club.

Tells how he became seduced from his religion and saw it as a basis for a political involvement. This is the story of the religious right movement that involves millions of Americans today and changed American politics forever. It put the Republicans in office, and essentially turned this nation to the right.

This led to the culture wars of abortion, homophobia, etc. The reason Schaeffer left the movement in the 90s was because it was becoming increasingly extreme in alot of areas: homophobic, pro-life movement, violence, acts of intimidation against abortion doctors, clinics and the women going there, civil disobedience was sliding toward vandalism, firebombing clinics and so forth.

He came to realize that what he and his father had done, along with C. Everett Koop (Reagan's Surgeon General), in turning the evangelical movement into a political wing of the Republican Party - the far right wing of the party - had a lot to do with setting the tone for what became really an insurgency in this country...trying to overthrow the government as we know it...in terms of not just overturning Roe v Wade and legal abortion, but also if you took it to the logical conclusion of turning America into a theocracy. Laws against homosexuality based on Old Testament law, laws against adultery or pornography or pre-marital sex, or any of these things that would have been prescribed in the bible.

So, we were really a movement that would have turned America into a Western version of Iran under that theocracy, had that logic gone to its ultimate conclusion. That's the story I tell in the book, but it's also very relevant to me now because I look back with great regret at having been part of a movement that set something in motion that wound up with people being shot and killed, literally as in the case of Dr. Tiller, or in the case of the black security guard who was killed at the Holocaust Museum by a right wing fanatic.
We were part of a movement that was not necessarily responsible for those people individually, but we certainly helped set something in motion. When it went to the fringe, it was taken to the logical conclusion, which I believe will happen in the future again...and result in violence."
 

. (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 5:04 pm
I'm afraid of y'all who flag those that have a difference of opinion. I'm afraid to put my 2 cents in. Y'all scare me. There is lunatic fringe in every facet of politics. I'm sure in this Big Brother day and age the FBI and CIA are keeping watch on all those fringes and especially Care2. Thank you Dar for your beautiful statement.
 

Nancy M. (202)
Friday October 9, 2009, 5:12 pm
Rebecca, expressing opinions is fine. It is great! Promoting HATE is not. You do not promote HATE.
 

Sir Walk F. (124)
Friday October 9, 2009, 6:27 pm
Can you imagine what the Left could accomplish if they spent their energy pushing the Democrats to actually be progressive and uphold the values of their party instead of arguing with fearful rural idiots who have no concept of or interest in logic, reason, or common sense?

The Democrats are counting on those from the "right" to distract the lefties long enough to avoid any kind of meaningful health care reform, not to mention a time-table for pulling out of Iraq (remember that?)

It's all distraction, folks. The Republicans have no real power, and they continue to dictate the terms of the debate.

Think about it.

If we continue to forgive the Democrats, merely because they are slightly 'better' than the Republicans, then America is screwed.
 

Karrie C. (1)
Friday October 9, 2009, 6:30 pm
i never got overwhelmed by hate until I seen today's Nobel prize winning. I am for love and respect for a change. I also Like Homeschooling because I want to know what my children or future children I should say is being taught.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday October 9, 2009, 6:33 pm
I am going against my first post to post here again. But Nancy your post is well said...
Those who are baiting and posting with hateful material that is intended to bait are the ones with the harmful intent. It is obvious to anyone who reads these posts who are the instigators and who are the responders... However, I still say, don't buy into the hatefulness of those who are obviously biased against the Conservatives, the Blue Doggs and the Independens. All the stuff that is being posted about the "violent Right" are post designed to bait... simple. We know it is not the truth and so does the poster... Let it go and let's leave this thread for those who do like violence and insighting it... Shall we...
 

Suzanne O. (35)
Friday October 9, 2009, 7:56 pm
I am pretty surprised by the lack of tolerance for some posters. What one deems as hate or troll talk (which I find to be so stupid, for lack of a better word) may just be overzealous speech.

I as a member of the Tea Party movement resent much of what is said about us. It is not true. We are not racists, we are not haters. We are people who can have no more taxes thrown at us, no more bigger but not better government thrown at us.

Yes, as in all groups some who infiltrate are fringe/haters. Not the majority. Are we the Tea Partiers on your lists to be watched and silenced, when concerns we have come out in protests.

I hear as much hate and rhetoric toward the right, that I do for the left. It is all disheartening and all should be addressed. It does not seem as if this is the case in your request for signatures. I can not sign this.
 

Darlene K. (361)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:18 pm
That's why Dar and others see no reason whatsover for this campaign to stop far right violence. They WANT it to continue. They WANT something terrible to happen to Obama. They WANT riots and revolts in the USA. They don't care if lives are lost. All they know is they "want their country back."

************************************

Marion, you are very wrong to write such a statement of what I AM, and what I THINK. I didn't flag it, but I should have...

I DON'T WANT ANY HARM TO COME TO OUR PRESIDENT, I DON'T WANT RIOTS AND REVOLTS IN AMERICA, AND I DON'T WANT ANY LIVES LOST. I suggest you never make this comment of what "I WANT", again. Those who know me.., know I am the opposite of what you write. Again, I will say, BRING OUR TROOPS HOME, AND STOP THE KILLING.

Marion, I voted for CYNTHIA MCKINNEY, so your accusations are ridiculous. I am Hawaiian and Cherokee, and I have been treated less than human in many sectors of life on the mainland of America. However, I try to forgive the numerous past BETRAYALS and PAIN..., to move forward in PEACE and HAPPINESS. Try it sometime, it really does feel good.

I wasn't swayed by the campaign rhetoric of a man being twirled into the White House by a conspiracy that even took control of ALL news media. His campaign was giving prophetic promises of blatant lies. Even the "left leaning" Saturday Night Light, has made a spoof on this President, of all the broken promises he made to win the Presidency. heh heh

Humor, being funny of his "work," doesn't mean I wish any harm onto him, for goodness sakes.

More importantly, you keep posting how others think and feel and do..., and that is a sign of desperation, to me. NEVER, EVER have I EVER wished harm to our President. He is in my prayers everyday, dear one..., to stay safe.

People in my neighborhood, people in my community, people all over my state...., say HATEFUL THINGS about this President, and I CAN'T MONITOR OR POLICE what every person or individual claims against this President. Americans have been doing this for over two centuries. This is nothing new. You ASSUME people will rally behind a death wish, from some rhetoric of a so-called "religious right."....I don't buy into the hate, and I tell others not to buy into the hate. MOST DON'T. Of course, I know you flag and get others to flag people in the news on articles against "your" opinion. That is abuse of the option to me. I am not a troll, a racist, a hater, or any other label you willing pin on others. I am sorry you deleted me as a friend, when you found out I didn't support the candidate you supported, but I had hoped that you had recovered from your impulsive emotional reaction.

You must understand, I will hold this President accountable, and I will rally those for PEACE.

I wish you peace, as I wish this world peace. I hate no one, and I wish for everyone to hate NO ONE. However, this is planet Earth, and I realize that patience, forgiveness, compassion, and much more is a MUST to keep flowing in positive energy of change. I am still learning, healing and servicing as everyone else...

I gave my opinion in a comment with respect and clarified that I didn't intend to upset anyone. All these comments brings me to tears...., for HUMANITY,.....FOR THE CHILDREN and THE VOICELESS. I hope and I pray, that more realize it is the PEOPLE that give power to LOVE and to HATE. It is a choice, that has a ripple each is accountable for throughout their own "cirlce" of existence. Stop giving power to the HATE MONGERS. Turn your backs on this sector of hate, and give your precious time and energy to what is evolving in LOVE and GREATNESS. Too many problems going on in this nation and world that will take too many more innocent lives.

I am grateful for the work you do Marion, and I look beyond your attacks and telling others "what" I am and "why" I do, to who you are within...

I HAVE TOO. It is the way of the UNIVERSE. You have no clue what is coming, because if you did..., you wouldn't be wasting your time flagging people for their differing opinions and attacking them. Those who do truly know me, on this site, will disregard your attacks on me, and move on. Again, it's a choice, that I respect for all. I didn't come into this lifetime to force everyone to like or love me, nor did I come into this lifetime to follow the blind illusions of this world. I came, to help mankind, this planet and all her life, and myself achieve a better world. I respectfully AGREE TO DISAGREE with your assessment of me....much love and peace...namaste

 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:22 pm
Thanks for stopping by, Suzanne. I respect your views. The people in this thread who we called trolls have a history of following many of us around with the agenda to disrupt and obstruct whatever the topic is they don't agree with. The threads have gotten ugly. Because of this, we avoid these people if we can and simply don't engage, if possible.

I have never engaged in a conversation with you in a thread. But you have a respectful way of getting your point across without attacking. That is all I ask and most of us ask. Respect and not making it personal. When it's all said and done, abiding by the rules as laid out by Care2 usually ends where we find some things in common, some things we differ on, and some things we did not know.

Not everyone signs and that is fine with me.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:24 pm
"I respectfully AGREE TO DISAGREE with your assessment of me"

Thank you, Dar.
 

Sir Walk F. (124)
Friday October 9, 2009, 8:38 pm
There is no "Right " and "Left" in America.

Just schizophrenics, amnesiacs, and hypocrites.


We are all screwed.
 

Jaette Carpenter (20)
Friday October 9, 2009, 9:35 pm
I signed on the dotted line Marion. We fight terrorists abroad, why not also fight terrorists at home? Hate speech IS fanning the flames for violent terrorism. In normal working situations, people have been fired for spewing out much lower level garbage than we are hearing from Beck/Rush/Fox. At the least, we can work to pull out the money supporting their mouths.
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:54 am
I have actually BEEN to one of those "Town Meetings"; and I have SEEN and HEARD voices resonant with irrational HATRED, screaming and yelling irrational stuff at my respected Congressman. {I also saw a marvelous example of a woman NON-VIOLENTLY handling one of these "Haters", DISTRACTING him with her gentle voice so he turned away from his HATE SPEECH, or, rather, she told me afterwards, he turned all his HATE SPEECH onto HER; using vile names for women that I can't repeat here on Care2! nor would I want to! But at least, we got to HEAR our Representative SPEAK about Health Care; which is what the vast majority of us in the hall, had come to hear!} This is definitely NOT your "civilized debate" that gets a bit noisy at times! This was DELIBERATELY ATTEMPTING TO PREVENT THE CONGRESSMAN FROM SPEAKING, OR FROM BEING HEARD WHEN HE DID SPEAK. Also an attempt to INTIMIDATE some of us Elders in the audience. {The intimidation fell flat on its face, I'm glad to say!}
Anyone who says that this was "just a normal sort of debate/political dis-agreement", HASN'T BEEN THERE. I've heard about Town Meetings that were much WORSE {and seen video clips of them}. As I said before, this ISN'T THE {relatively decent}"RIGHT WING" of previous decades of politics! Mr. Frank Schaeffer GIVES A GOOD ACCOUNT of "what went wrong" here.

It is a GOOD EXAMPLE of uhhhhhhh "stretching the truth" shall we say, when Right-Wingers say this uhhhhhhh "isn't happening, the Left is just making it up, or imagining it, or something"!
I have listened to the Talk Show guys only VERY briefly; and could hardly BELIEVE what I was hearing!!! and reading TRANSCRIPTS of it.....!!!

No, dearies, we are not "baiting" you'all. We are WARNING PEOPLE about your sort -- spewers of Hatred that a few naive people perhaps haven't quite encountered YET; but, they will, they will. We need to UNITE in taking action NOW; signing petitions, letters to Congress, boycotts, protests in the streets as took place in Mt. Vernon, Washington {not far from where I live}. Whatever it takes.
This thread really shouldn't be distracted about the Nobel Peace Prize; but, be one pro or con the award, it certainly HAS BROUGHT OUT THAT THE WORLD DOES NOT THINK OF PRESIDENT OBAMA, THE WAY THE RIGHT-WING HATERS WANT THE WORLD TO THINK ABOUT HIM.
Actually, the Right Wing HAS HARDLY CHANGED PUBLIC OPINION ONE LITTLE BIT. They have INTIMIDATED ONLY the "blue dog" Democrats; who I think were LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE to not pass Health Care reform anyway; as they, same like the Repukes, are probably in the back pocket of the Insurance Corporations and their lobbyists and huge campaign contributors.

But polls show, THE GREAT AMERICAN PUBLIC IS NOT BUYING THE RIGHT-WING LIES ABOUT HEALTH CARE {and other things too!}.
The only thing they have going for them, is THE MEDIA GIVES THEM ALL THAT PUBLICITY. The Media is ALSO complicit in the plot to screw the Public. The Media are ALSO part of the Profit-taking system.
I basically agree with Robert S. about President Obama. He's not "perfect", nobody ever said he was; but with him, people like us have a bit more "wiggle room" than under Cheney/Bush, if we TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT........
 

(3)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:56 am
"I'm not sure whether I've got this right but I was under the impression that in a democratic country like the UK or US whne a person is elected to office the the loser concedes defeat gracefully and pledges loyallty if not to the man or woman the office they hold and the followers of the losing party are expected to conform in the same way"

Agreed, but apparently too much to ask of McCain's supporters (who booed aloud when John McCain said he'd called Barack Obama to concede).

"I as a member of the Tea Party movement resent much of what is said about us. It is not true. We are not racists, we are not haters. We are people who can have no more taxes thrown at us, no more bigger but not better government thrown at us."

More taxes thrown at you? If President Obama has increased your taxes you must be very rich, therefore you CAN afford to pay more taxes. As far as the tea baggers protesting the bailing out of Wall St. is concerned, I'm still somewhat undecided as to whether or not it was the right thing to do, but absolutely cannot take the tea baggers seriously considering their inaction during Bush's war for corporate profit (Iraq). Sorry, but the things being protested by these people make them look like hypocrites at the best, and considering much of the signage at these rallies, yes, racists and haters.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 6:44 am
Sir Walk ~ Was that humor, or is the cup half empty today?

Jaette ~ I agree. Instead of fanning the flames, the talking heads should be giving people hope and solutions, considering they work for the same people who got us in this mess. Thank you for signing!
 

Suzanne O. (35)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 7:15 am
Marion - I appreciate your kind words toward me. I believe respect for all is the key to solving many problems. We are Americans and essentially in the same boat. To work toward an end that gives us all a better quality of life is I believe a desireable goal.


In answer to others who posted after mine. I unfortunately was unable to attend Town Halls. I do not know what took place personally, what I have viewed on tv did at times get quite heated. People are concerned and they sometimes speak with high voices.

As far as me being rich, that is beyond laughable, unfortunately. I will not get in to my personal situation, but let us just say it is not pretty and life is certainly not easy. All I can say is live in the State of New Jersey and then we can talk about taxes. It might not even be that the Federal Government is our biggest problem in this state. When you have a state government that is wiping out people. No taxes on any level of government are workable.

As far as hate speech, what concerns me is that you want to place in to the hands of those who speak more hate and rhetoric the right to decide what it is and who is saying it. Those that represent on all sides have as of late spoken with more spit and venum, causing a divide that I am not sure will ever be repairable. Both sides are doing this.

I agree some signs I have viewed on tv at the Tea Parties are offensive, absolutely. They get zero'd in on. My sign and the sign my 12 year old carried are totally unoffensive would never be aired on the news.

Thanks for listening and trust me the grass is not always greener and those in opposition of your view are not always the enemy.
 

Suzanne O. (35)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 7:24 am
There is one other point I would like to make. Now when you hear people saying this is not my President about President Obama, somehow now it is treason, it is a call for something bad. I agree. However, I also felt that way the many, many times I heard it expressed against President Bush.

To me, the Presidency is a position of great power and respect. It represents all Americans no matter who is sitting in that position. I just feel it was offensive then and offensive now. I don't find a difference between the two. They are both equally wrong in my view.
 

Nancy M. (202)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 7:25 am
Lena, Thank you for realizing what I was saying. We may not agree on politics but you thought about it and responded respectfully.

Suzanne, As always, you are a wonderful, thoughtful, respectful poster here, as you are elsewhere. If I lived where you live, I'd probably be at a Tea Party too.

And I know Suzanne and Lena, that it isn't all "right wing", in fact it isn't even most "right wing".

Thomas, I really wish you hadn't responded to Suzanne that way. One issue that the TEA Party deals with is NOT how much we pay in taxes, but how much the government is spending. It is a legitimate concern.

Sir Walk F- Loved all your posts. It always gets to back- why does it have to be liberal versus conservative, there is so much middle ground, and so much for the country to fix. Why waste time arguing.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 7:41 am
Barbara ~ Your experience with this topic is very much appreciated. The story of the man spewing hate to the speaker and then to the woman seated next to him is as if he was possessed. The hate talk and incitement to violence is ABNORMAL and DANGEROUS for any civilized people. Sprinkle it with lies and it creates an evil scenario. Violence brings violence.

My grandmother was born into slavery at the tail end of it. She shared stories with me as a little girl about the fear, hatred, lynchings, rapes, beatings, trumped up charges against slaves and other horrors she saw and knew about. She told me about how the hateful fans were flamed to incite grown men to lie about slaves and brutally attack them for no reason. If there was a reason, the attacks were more vicious, if that can be imagined. As a result, this kept the slaves in a state of obedience. Only the most brave would stand up and fight for their human rights (because they had no civil rights before the emancipation) or run away, which seldom ended well for them.

What has this story about slaves got to do with today's hate and violence? Lots.

There is an ugly segment of our society that still believes violence is the way to CONTROL, DOMINATE and gain or keep POWER. The tactics used toward the slaves have resurfaced to put the entire nation in fear. Those of us around the age of 60 and above sense it and feel it in our bones. Those of us who have studied well know this. Those whose ancestors suffered under slavery know what is going on and sense just how dangerous this violence can get. And those who would answer the call to violence have no idea how dangerous it is for them as well.

These people doing the inciting and those who are PAYING for it have studied the psychology of mob control quite well. All one has to do is look at a gang rape, a gang fight or any type of group control to know that one person plants the seed -- good or bad -- into the weaker minds and can get the group to do anything. The larger the group, the more damage.

Frank Schaeffer is truly a man of the cloth. I believe there are really few men or women among us qualified to be religious leaders. This title can bring such a lucrative income, that greedy people with charisma and knowledge of the bible flock to preach as they line their pockets. But are they willing to risk it all by telling the people the truth, or are they willing to lay their lives on the line for the people?

I think Schaeffer is now finally a true religious leader. Something we rarely see. He and his father created an empire...and a monster. By organizing this campaign to stop the violence, he is finally doing what he should have done all along...spread TRUTH, advocate NONVIOLENCE and work with government and communities to EDUCATE the masses to help HEAL this nation of the monster. Isn't that what Martin Luther King, Jr. was about?

The media should be used to inform, educate, empower and share. It is a powerful tool that is currently not being used effectively for the people. However, it is currently being used to benefit corporations, political parties and the elites. No wonder the people are so screwed up as Sir Walk said above.

If we're going to protest, we need to be armed with the truth, we need to be able to understand what we are protesting, and we need to protest without hate. Hate is destructive and no one wins.

I agree that we must unite to stop the violence. This campaign is but one step, but a major one because it will hold the media accountable and stop the lies and incitement to violence. Once the media is required to provide researched information to the public, we will be able to make better, more rational decisions about our lives.

 

Marion Y. (322)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 7:59 am
"The system is corrupt, run by money for monies sake. The illusion of our freedom to decide and change things is kept alive because it served the gangsters better than overt control with its probable resulting rebellion. The fact that those in control must attempt to keep the illusion alive is a mixed bag for all involved and Obama's efforts within this scenario so far give me hope and pride that even within an illusion, positive things can happen and while I admit that he and we must to some extent follow a script, which if we had written it would be different, we have by electing Obama been allowed some ability to edit. These edits to me, are like coming out of a cave into the sunlight. I think much of the world sees it the same way."

Robert ~ I too agree with you. Indeed, our corrupt system is held together by an illusion. Obama (or any president, for that matter) must stay within a certain area to govern. JFK fell out of that area when tried to change the federal reserve system. I don't agree with some of Obama's agenda or how fast he effects change, but I do feel we have a better chance with him than the alternative who works primarily for the elites.

The power fighting for control over our government again wants us to fight each other through fear, hate and violence. The only thing between them holding onto our money and our power is...our vote.

 

Robert S. (115)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:25 am
I admit that I am one who has said and says to this day that Bush was not my President. I refer to Bush as Gov Bush. I do this because he was never elected. I don't say that lightly or without evidence to back up my conclusion. For anyone really interested in an honest look at the credibility of GW's election the Information gotten from research and investigation of the events in Florida are not hard to find. The actions taken and not taken surrounding the "election" of GW Bush are well documented. Just type in "the 2000 election".

In addition, more than anything else I have ever heard of seen, the events surrounding Florida and how the press covered or didn't cover it showed me conclusively that the idea of "liberal media" is a hoax. If it ever existed, it was long gone by 2000. If any further proof was needed I got it in the coverage of the buildup to the invasion of Iraq when as you may remember all who opposed it were vilified as UN American.

This is all water under the bridge and history now. Nothing was or will be done about it I make this comment only because I believe that to suggest my rejection of GW as President has parallel, or can be compared to the ridiculous birther movements attempts to question Obama's citizenship and by this his election is disingenuous to the extreme. I reject Bush based on documented and unprecedented tampering in the election process and the resulting treasonous placement of him in office by the Supreme court. Birthers simply deny reality. I don't and never have rejected a President as not being mine because I didn't vote for him. I did and do reject that Bush was my President because based on much proof, I believe that Bush "was not elected". I have never voted for a Republican. But never have I questioned the legitimacy of a winner until Bush no matter how unhappy I was with the result.
 

Ruud Hulspas (38)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:04 am
Well, it is clear that the word 'united' in United States of America has been a joke since the 'end' of the Civil War and still is.
 

Robert S. (115)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:57 am
The above is another example of hate speech, this time anti semitic crap. It has no place in this forum. And I say this as one who is not a fan of much that Israel does or our alliance with them but I know anti antisemitism when I see it.
 

Robert S. (115)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:02 pm
I don't flag much, but I'm flagging this...Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:23 am and watch out Googling Tzipora Menache, as I am seeing warnings about virus's at play. Hey, Research but beware.
 

Nancy M. (202)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:27 pm
Rudd, you certainly know how to "cut to the chase". I have been expecting a Civil war since the late 1980s.
 

Catherine O Neill (73)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 1:11 pm
I respect our Pres. but I don't agree with his policies nor the fact of having a few knownn Communist Czars & giving them too much power.Bottom line to this is I am not a Racist just because I disagree with his policies.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 1:58 pm
Robert ~ Thanks for jumping on that comment. I have flagged it too.

On the stolen election, I can't agree more with your comments. If the chain of events had not occurred since then, we might not be having this conversation. The 2008 election was almost stolen as well. Since they weren't able to do that, playing on the emotions of an ill-informed populace by spewing hate and inciting them to violence is the game they are playing now to gain back power and completely destroy this country.

Ruud ~ Point well taken.

Catherine ~ I don't agree with everything Obama does and I'm not a racist either. :) Don't forget, czars were started under Reagan, and Bush had the most. Nothing wrong with them. As for communism, we already have it in the name of Corporate Communism. Thanks for your comments.
 

. (0)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 3:45 pm
Marion ~ Note: these are terms I learned as a military veteran while serving our country. Regardless who is the president, we make an oath to serve our president, our country and its citizens. For every soldier who is fighting wars for American citizens (whether you support those wars or not), to tell them "he is not my president" is an act of treason in their eyes and says you don't give a whit about their lives.

I have not served my coountry by being in the Military.But I have many friends who have.
The oath is as follows :
"I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Every soldiers priority is FIRST to that of the Constitution,above all else.
Yes it does say to obey the orders of the President.But if a solider (which I am in NO way a birther)belives that the constitution is in someway being violated by any given person of rank,whether their commanding officer or the Presidnet himself they HAVE to first protect the Constitution.
As long as the commanding officer whomever,is abiding by the Constitution they are not to disobey him\her.

The Presidents first job same as ALL politicans in this country is to uphold the ideas and ideology of that piece of paper.That is the pledge that they themselves make.

So if a President says "Well,go round up all the minorities." That is unconstitutional and therefore any person in the Armed forces has an obligation to uphold the constitution and noit the orders of a single person.
At least that is how it has been explained by those that I know in the armed forces.

And that's not hate.That is fact on top of an personal opinion with regard to the issues being swung around this thread.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 4:06 pm
Am I missing something?? When did did our Commander In Chief say, 'go round up all the minorities'?

 

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 4:23 pm
I gotta tell ya, Lib Lady, I've looked high and low on thi internet, and I'll be darned if I can find one article, blog post of reference whatsoever to the Pres ordering minorities rounded up.
But I did find this :

The Obama birth certificate debate
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 4:26 pm
Even more ominous, however, is the effect these suits could have on the military at-large. Obedience to the chain of command is essential to military operation. This is one reason absolute adherence to the chain of command is "drilled" into recruits at boot camp. By encouraging soldiers to disobey orders from the President the Birthers are essentially encouraging a break down in the chain of command.

After all, if a soldier such as Maj. Cook really doubts the legality of his order should he not first take it up with the superior office directly above him rather than filing suit in federal court. How effective can our military really be if every soldier can challenge what he perceives as an "illegal" order by suing in federal court? If a Company Commander in Afghanistan orders a Platoon Leader to take a hill do we really want to encourage the Platoon leader to respond with "I am sorry but your order derives its authority only from the Commander-in-Chief who I believe is not legally qualified to be President and I therefore refuse to obey your illegal order and hereby declare my intent to file suit in federal court." Such scenarios are a recipe for chaos especially as the United States finds itself in the middle of two armed conflicts.
 

Robert S. (115)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 4:31 pm
I think I remember it was under Nixon where the first Czar reference was made. I remember looking it up when all the hubbub over the word began. It is just another way, to just because of the sound of the word, attack Obama as less than American and somehow a threat... "Communist takeover!"

"America understands that there is one party in this country that is favor of health care reform and one party that is against it, and they know why."

"They understand that if Barack Obama were somehow able to cure hunger in the world the Republicans would blame him for overpopulation"

"They understand that if Barack Obama could somehow bring about world peace they would blame him for destroying the defense industry."

"In fact, they understand that if Barack Obama has a BLT sandwhich tommorrow for lunch, they will try to ban bacon."

"But that's not what America wants, America wants solutions to it's problems and that begins with health care.

This Greyson guys words are a wake up call to the weak kneed Dems to stand up to the bull that has been sold lately and for too long by the Repubs.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 5:08 pm
Robert ~ I really like Alan Grayson's approach and how he is hammering the opposition on the floor. I wasn't aware of a czar under Nixon. Interesting. Yes, take a hat, put in strips of paper that say "czars" "communist" "he's not American born" "death panels" "socialist" "marxist" "nazi" "concentration camps" "indoctrination" and throw that in the air for the scared to death, ill-informed, emotionally charged people and what do you get?

You get Frank Schaeffer, a staunch right-wing, evangelical preacher saying a monster has been created and we must organize to stop far right violence.
 

Judy Cross (83)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 5:21 pm
Since Obama has spent $1.6 million to date, to avoid having to present a valid birth certificate....I think it is safe to say he is "less than American".

Obamanoids still can't get around that sticky bit. Also, who is paying the legal bills for that....Obama.... the Democratic Party?
 

Robert S. (115)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 5:43 pm
In the Bush-era days if liberals encouraged troops to disobey orders it would be called treason. I think thats just what it is no matter who does it.

 

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 5:57 pm
Judy, Judy, Judy, don't you worry in the least, that all of your 'less than American' anti-President Obama rhetoric is giving fuel to the violent nut jobs on the fringe of YOUR party? The same violent nut jobs that this article is exposing. Did you read what an insider said : 'As a former right wing leader, who many years ago came to my senses and began to try to undo the harm the movement of religious extremism I helped build has done, I've been telling the media that we're facing a dangerous time in our history.'

Could it be that you inhabit that fringe area of religious extremism yourself? Just asking.
 

Robert S. (115)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 6:25 pm
"So if a President says "Well,go round up all the minorities." That is unconstitutional and therefore any person in the Armed forces has an obligation to uphold the constitution and noit the orders of a single person."

I would say that if one takes that road of soldier/constitutional scholar one had better be very sure one is correct and wins his case at the court marshal. Interesting "round up the minorities" scenario you use to illustrate your pondering of what might justify a failure to obey an order. I guess even you don't buy its justification in the case at hand, i.e., he's not really the President, which it seems to me should be landing these idiots in jail so they can think about it for a while. All those except this joker of course who it seems was a shill for the Anti Obama cause...
It turns out Cook actually volunteered for a tour of duty as reservist in the army rather then being ordered to deploy out-of-the-blue. Curiously after requesting to be deployed to Afghanistan Cook subsequently sued in order to avoid being deployed. Birthers may say "so what, the revocation still proves something is fishy in Obama land." That would be true except for the fact that as a reservist Maj. Cook has a right to rescind his request up to the day he is shipped out. So Maj. Cook had no need to sue to have his orders rescinded because he had the right to do so the entire time by mere request to the army. The army, surely knowing this fact an not wanting a man going to war who questions the very top of the chain of command, wisely revoked the order rather than fight he lawsuit. The revocation orders were, as one website puts it, standard procedure and hardly part of a huge cover-up for President Obama
 

Suzanne O. (35)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 7:04 pm
I thought the point of the thread was to end hate talk (by the right). I think it should be to end hate talk all together and not just try to silence one side of the party.

I am not even going to get in to the whole President Bush being legitimate or President Obama being legitimate. To me neither is arguable. They both were elected and sworn in as our Presidents. One persons truth or belief is anothers lie. To me if there was a problem it should have been dealt with before they were sworn in.

I wish people could get past the President Bush did this so President Obama does that. It's all crap. There are so many serious issues taking place and we just waste time taking swipes at each other rather than looking at what is going on around us. Good people are still out of work, good people are still losing homes, good people still have no health care, good people are still at war. Our country still has those who would do us harm as evidenced in New York recently.

But, hey, everyone worry about past things that were. Don't be so bold as to look to the future. Let us just keep looking at each other as enemies, rather than people who all care about our Country, but just have different thoughts on how to make it a better place for all. All this back and forth, left and right, just so ridiculous and a waste of valuable time and effort that could be used to try to achieve some common goals with a little compromise and understanding.

Alright, I am done, I am off my soapbox. Go back to bashing each other and not listening. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
 

Robert S. (115)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:02 pm
"we just waste time taking swipes at each other rather than looking at what is going on around us".
Please... speak for yourself.

"They both were elected and sworn in as our Presidents."
No. Bush was sworn in after being placed in office. Facts are facts. We were told to move on by the infuriatingly gracious Gore while we still bled and we where forced to watch this travesty of a President do everything he could to bring this country to its knees while making his friends richer and richer, in fact the richest they have ever been. For the rest of us....you would have us all be like Gore and take it. Whats a little more...

"One persons truth or belief is anothers lie."
No the truth is the truth, and a lie is something not the truth. Truth can be verified. Belief is immune to both truth and reason.

"To me if there was a problem it should have been dealt with before they were sworn in."
Any suggestions as to what we should have done that we did not do?

"Let us just keep looking at each other as enemies, rather than people who all care about our Country, but just have different thoughts on how to make it a better place for all."

The enemy is a stand taken which while wrapped in the flag tears my country apart to keep a few rich bums in power through fear and lies using the ignorant as minions to forward the cause of greed.
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:11 pm
Obamanoids??? Omg I cannot fathom why all are still at each others throats..Do you realize the more you do this the more one chooses not to listen to you???? You guys need to pull toghether and help make the changes not obstruct...We could get a whole lot more done if everyone of you regardless of opinions would pull together...

Big Gorilly Hugs
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:48 pm
The Repukelican repudiation of Science has hit a new low. OK, they think the world is only 6000 years old. They think humans and dinosaurs co-existed. They deny Evolution. They deny Global Warming; even while the insurance companies they own, refuse to insure beachfront properties, because of melting icecaps causing sea levels to rise. They deny that herbicides, pesticides, bovine growth hormones, genetic engineering, could POSSIBLY be anything but a BLESSING for humankind {and Monsanto!}; but they have hit a lower low, than even that.

"Obama was born in Kenya." Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, was never ever in her entire globe-trotting LIFE, ever in Kenya. If she was, there would be a passport, visa, travel documents..... a record SOMEwhere.

HOW CAN A BABY BE BORN WITHOUT A WOMB? Especially in a Third-world country, where they hardly have even NOW, let alone had decades ago, the technology for test-tube babies......???

The reason Ann Dunham was never ever in her life in Kenya, or had the slightest reason or desire ever to go there, is a simple one. Her husband, from a Kenyan village, and a Muslim, apparently had one {or more} wife or wives {or promised wives} already in Kenya. That is probably one good reason why Barack's Mom divorced him. NO American woman I know, would stand for such a situation for one moment; let alone a progressive and free-spirited woman like Ann evidently was. Barack Obama's father was a citizen and a resident of Kenya. Barack was born in Hawaii. Being born on American soil, makes him a citizen no matter WHERE his parents came from.

Yes, explain, please, you genius scientist Repukes: HOW CAN A BABY BE BORN IN A KENYAN VILLAGE NOT BEING EXPELLED FROM ANY WOMB?
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:46 pm
It is all very well to want to give up, to NOT try to sift the facts from the speculations, the Truth from the Lies; to turn your back on problems that seem too difficult, too insoluble. We all have that right; we can retreat into our private lives any time we want to, just say "to heck with all of it". This is one of our rights and privileges.

However, to advocate that as a SOLUTION to our problems, is a bit dis-ingenuous. It is not a SOLUTION; except as a private, personal one. It is not a PROGRAM for change. If we ALL followed such "advice", the Bad Guys who are stealing us blind, leading our whole Planet to ruin let alone our Country, would have it ALL THEIR WAY, un-hindered by ANYthing!

I think you have to watch out for this -- the Bad Guys are trying to escape the Heat {of our increasingly critical scrutiny} ANY way they can! One thing works for one person; one thing works for another. It doesn't matter. They'll say anything.

So they will try to stir up violence and disorder on the one hand; then they will also say, to a different audience, Why can't we just all get along? RELAX, there's no problem, no danger! Let's unite! {Unite around DOING NOTHING, is what they mean!} We're all Americans, so don't protest, don't squeal, don't squirm, just "TAKE IT", whatever is dished out..... This way, they hope to ESCAPE THE HEAT when their violent rhetoric, their outright blatant LIES, result in actual violence spilling over in chaotic acts. Relax! Nothing bad's happening! Smile! Be happy!

This is no different from a RAPIST saying, "Lie back and enjoy it!"
These calls for "unity" are JUST AS FAKE. "Unity" with a Rapist? A love affair? You kidding?

The Republican party, what's left of it, has allowed itself to be TAKEN OVER by loudmouthed shills who spread FEAR by means of DIS-INFORMATION. These are actually relatively FEW IN NUMBER; but the Media gives them WAY TOO MUCH COVERAGE; making them seem MORE, and more powerful, than they are. This is not even "right" and "left" in the old traditional sense; this is more like PURE EVIL HATE-MONGERING versus the basic decency that most people exhibit most of the time. The decent people can be, and some are being, FOOLED AND MIS-LED by the Hate-and-Fear-mongers. The Hate-and-Fear-mongers are the ones yammering about "Left" and "Communist" and "Socialist". The rest of us, are just talking about BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS. And how to achieve them. The Hate-spreaders DON'T WANT US TO HAVE THESE BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS. {It would cut into their PROFITS, one way or another!} And, if ONE person or group doesn't have Basic Human Rights, then the Human Rights of ALL, are in danger. That is why we FIGHT; even if it means coming right up against the blasts of the Hate-screamers. For the rights even of people "other than ourselves"; the Human Rights of Racial, Religious, and Sexual Minorities; of Women, of Children, of the Elderly; of the Sick and the Mentally Ill and the Handicapped; of Prisoners and of Foreigners; yes, and of Animals......

SO, that is why we don't "all just get along" and "unite" around doing NOT ONE SINGLE DARNED THING. As Eugene V. Debs, the great Socialist leader said, "As long as one man is in jail, I am not free."

To sum up; it is the perfect right of any individual to give up the fight, if you don't have the energy for it. But to put that forward as a SOLUTION to anything, is short-sighted to say the least. And, yes, in MY opinion, there is A LOT OF PROPAGANDA OUT THERE that wants you to BELIEVE that is "the way"! That's what the Church in the Middle Ages always said, "Just trust in God, UNITE with the Church, do nothing for yourselves, DON'T THINK. Don't try and sift out the Truth, it's too difficult..." We would still be in the Middle Ages, if all had done that.....

A false "Unity" with rapists, with human and animal torturers, with liars, with inciters to violence and hatred..... I don't think that is what most of us here are, or should be, about.

How are you going to deal with "problems", if you don't identify and go after the Bad Guys? Are you going to stop using your Critical Thinking, and just take somebody's word for it, for who they are? "Which side are you on?" has always been a question. As I said, some shills and deceivers have taken over what used to be the GOP. Even old Republicans are appalled. This can all be DOCUMENTED and PROVED; extremely EASY with the Internet. Do you trust just anybody that says this, this, this?
 

Suzanne O. (35)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 6:46 am
You know what I do speak for myself. I wouldn't dream to speak for another. I tried to read these posts but forget it. Once a post becomes a book with capital letters to yell or to show how important you think your words are, I have lost interest. I am done here, there is no reasoning only hate. So be it. You all have a lovely day and bask in your own intelligence. The comments the name-calling all so very mature.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 8:10 am
Barbara ~ Yes, let's forget stolen elections, the mis-deeds of tyrants (Bush), the dark sins of America's past, the dangerous lies. Let's forget it all...so we can start anew. Well, we have started anew and we are faced today with Glenn Beck, the lying talking shill who misinforms and even wears what appears to be a Nazi uniform on the cover of his latest book. Leading the way is Limbaugh the blubbering maniac talking shill. They and others like O'Reilly rant, holler and rave feeding the emotions of scared to death citizens who are losing homes, jobs and their dignity every day as these far right wing nuts talk of hate and incite the citizens to violence.

WELL PAID (they're millionaires) by the same people who brought us the evil Bush Administration, they are determined to take back the country from the people and continue wreaking havoc on us and the world. Criminals doesn't begin to describe these monsters.

Now we have their followers wanting us to "get past" what Bush has done. Let's FORGET everything, be happy and get on with our lives.

Hmmm...let me think for a second about this (tapping finger)...

Okay, I thought about it. Apparently some great minds have thought about it too. Much greater minds than I. So I will list what they have to say about forgetting history:

I am passionately interested in understanding how my country works. And if you want to know about this thing called the United States of America you have to know about the Civil War. ~Ken Burns

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. ~George Santayana:

History is the only laboratory we have in which to test the consequences of thought. ~Etienne Gilson

We can learn from history how past generations thought and acted, how they responded to the demands of their time and how they solved their problems. We can learn by analogy, not by example, for our circumstances will always be different than theirs were. The main thing history can teach us is that human actions have consequences and that certain choices, once made, cannot be undone. They foreclose the possibility of making other choices and thus they determine future events. ~Gerda Lerner

Our ignorance of history causes us to slander our own times. ~Gustave Flaubert

History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again. ~Maya Angelou

A lawyer without history or literature is a mechanic, a mere working mason; if he possesses some knowledge of these, he may venture to call himself an architect. ~Sir Walter Scott


Thank you, Barbara, for your great knowledge of politics and how history plays a role!!

 

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 8:35 am
THANKS FOR DROPPING BY, SUZANNE!
 

Marion Y. (322)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 8:59 am
Speaking of history, the History Channel aired CuCluxClan: A Secret History last night. The horrendous activities of this criminal group is something I don't like to remember. But I forced myself to watch the program because I don't want to forget.

What I saw reminded me of the Beck and Limbaugh right wing rhetoric spewed onto our screens and airwaves filled with hate and inciting rants. The voices in the video could easily be transferred to the voices at the Tea Parties and town hall meetings that made little sense with their hateful signs and shouts.

Little do these people know that they are repeating the ugliest part of our history that was based on fear, arrogance, extremism, misinformation, hate, witch hunts and violence. Watching the video that has spanned well over 50 years, I could only think of one thing: this horror is being played out today.

CuCluxClan - A secret history
 

Robert S. (115)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 9:07 am
Suzanne -
"we just waste time taking swipes at each other rather than looking at what is going on around us".

I responded, Please... speak for yourself, and it was my response to the word "we". Use of this word implies my inclusion as I read it and I simply do not agree that I do what it is that you describe. Perhaps you meant to describe the actions, words, intent, perspective of "some". Clarity is important in written communication. I don't know what you dream of, but can only comment on what you apparently are attempting to convey with the words you choose.

After your first two sentences you veer off into a critique unrelated to anything in my comment... but
as I read this harrumph..
"I have lost interest. I am done here, there is no reasoning only hate."

should I conclude that this is a final exit, or just one in a series of dramatic exits bracketed by more examples of inattention to both what you read and what you write?

I am left to consider your second to last sentence,"have a lovely day and bask in your own intelligence".

I would always rather bask in another's, if any there be found.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 9:33 am
Just to be clear, I used the CuCluxClan as one form of extreme hatred. While there are any number of extreme groups fomenting hatred, Beck, Limbaugh and others are appealing to these type of groups. While they represent small percentages of US citizens, out of them can come a Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City bombing).

History (as some people want us to forget) has shown us that the same type of hates and misinformation being spewed for the masses now will most likely produce any number of McVeighs.

And while violence and hate can come from anywhere, it is the far right that is pushing this agenda heavily at this time in history. It must be stopped.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 3:39 pm
To my Conservative friends on this thread. Please notice that those people who are inciting you by calling respectable Americans like Beck,Limbaugh and others do so to bait you. Ignore them please. We of the right know better. It is most of us from the Right who are the ones who will preserve our nation long after the parasitic movements of the left are still using the works of others to leach onto for their very existence while at the same time trying to discredit us. They are welfare people, they are ACORN people, they are corrupt usually in everything they touch...
Pleae move on from this sick thread and let them eat their own...
And please, when you see comments from those who point out what they perceive to be hatred, remember, it is they that hate...
God Bless.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 4:14 pm
To my progressive friends on this thread, please notice that those who are enciting you by calling idiot hate mongers like Beck, Boss Limbaugh and other troglidytes like them sane, do so to bait you. Ignore them, please. We, of the human race, know better. It is those on the far riight that will drag this great country backwards into the dark ages, destroying the planet and all of it's inhabitants.
They are the Bankers, they are the Insurance Companies, they are Big Pharma, they are Big Oil, they are the Military Industrial Complex, they are the Prison Industrial Complex, they are people like Ms Corkie.
Yes friends, let's all bid them good bye and good riddance so that we may get back to this vitally important topic.

Thanks Lena for the outline. You saved me some time.
 

Robert S. (115)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 4:58 pm
And while violence and hate can come from anywhere, it is the far right that is pushing this agenda heavily at this time in history. It must be stopped.

That was worth repeating.
 

(3)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 6:07 pm
"respectable Americans like Beck,Limbaugh and others"

That's rich. Beck and Limbaugh, 2 people so completely sleazy that they would incite hatred for personal monetary profit "respectable"? To respect them is to put the all mighty dollar before the public interest, I cannot imagine too many things more DISRESPECTFUL to humanity than that.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 6:38 pm
MJM ~ Your comment did not go over my head. :)

Robert and Thomas ~ Indeed, we must keep focused on the mouthpieces of the violence and hate. Here's the potential high crimes it breeds:

Delusions of grandeur
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 6:41 pm
Im not a fly, Im not a Troll its just meeeeee Gorilly Gurllllll....

MJM stay away from me with the spray...LOL

Sorry guys had to do it...LOL

Big Gorilly Hugs
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 6:44 pm
Of course not, Marion. I'd need a damn tall ladder for that.
Besides, I know you've got my number. (so to speak) ;)
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 6:47 pm
LOL. Big Gorilly Hugs back.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 6:57 pm
Marion...This video is very disturbing. This problem is only getting worse, and it's not going away any time soon. All good people must be informed about these psychopaths and also how the far rightwing of the Repuglicon party is a breeding ground for them.
 

Robert S. (115)
Sunday October 11, 2009, 8:09 pm
let us celebrate what people elsewhere are celebrating -- that America now has a sane and smart man in the White House, a man who truly wants a world at peace for his two daughters.

Many, for the past couple days (yes, myself included), have grumbled, "What has he done to earn this prize?" How 'bout this:

The simple fact that he was elected was reason enough for him to be the recipient of this year's Nobel Peace Prize.

Because on that day the murderous actions of the Bush/Cheney years were totally and thoroughly rebuked. One man -- a man who opposed the War in Iraq from the beginning -- offered to end the insanity. The world has stood by in utter horror for the past eight years as they watched the descendants of Washington, Lincoln and Jefferson light the fuse of our own self-destruction. We flipped off the nations on this planet by abandoning Kyoto and then proceeded to melt eight more years worth of the polar ice caps. We invaded two nations that didn't attack us, failed to find the real terrorists and, in effect, ignited our own wave of terror. People all over the world wondered if we had gone mad.

And if all that wasn't enough, the outgoing Joker presided over the worst global financial collapse since the Great Depression.

So, yeah, at precisely 11:00pm ET on November 4, 2008, Barack Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. And the 66 million people who voted for him won it, too. By the time he took the stage at midnight ET in the Grant Park Historic Hippie Battlefield in downtown Chicago, billions of people around the globe were already breathing a huge sigh of relief. It was as if, in that instant, one man did bring the promise of peace to the world -- and most were ready to go wherever he wanted to go to achieve that end. Never before had the election of one man made every other nation feel like they had won, too. When you've got billions of people ready, willing and able to join a cause like this, well, a prize in Oslo is the least that you deserve.

One other thought. The Peace Prize historically has been given to those who have worked to throw off the yoke of racial discrimination and segregation (Martin Luther King, Jr., Desmond Tutu). I think the Nobel committee, in awarding Obama the prize, was also rewarding the fact that something profound had happened in a nation that was founded on racial genocide, built on racist slavery, and held back for a hundred-plus years by vestiges of hateful bigotry (which can still be found on display at teabagger rallies and daily talk radio). The fact that this one man could cause this seismic historical event to occur -- and to do so with such grace and humility, never succumbing to the bait, but still not backing down (yes, he asked to be sworn in as "Barack Hussein Obama"!) -- is more than reason enough he should be in Oslo to meet the King on December 10. Maybe he could take us along with him. 'Cause I also suspect the Nobel committee was tipping its hat to all of us -- we, the American people, had conquered some of our racism and did the truly unexpected. After seeing searing images of our black fellow citizens left to drown in New Orleans -- and poor whites seeing their own treated no better than the black man they had been raised to hate -- we had all seen enough. It was time for change.

Thank you, Barack Obama, for giving us the opportunity to redeem ourselves. Now for the tasks ahead. We need you to do all that you promised to do. We need it. The world needs it.

My prediction for the future? You become the first *two-time* winner of the Nobel Peace Prize! Yeah!

M.Moore
 

Robert S. (115)
Monday October 12, 2009, 1:44 am
http://www.nytms-se.com/2009/07/04/national-health-insurance-act-passes/
 

Marion Y. (322)
Monday October 12, 2009, 6:11 am
MJM ~ I'm glad you viewed the video. It is quite disturbing. I posted the CuCluxClan video to show what we have dealt with over the years. Fast forward to today and you see we haven't changed. These organization are alive and thrive. Beck and Limbaugh are fanning the flames. All it takes is one spark to ignite a fire.

Incidentally, these people who listen to these talking heads might be interested to know Limbaugh has openly stated he does it for the ratings and numbers. How's that right wing listeners? He doesn't care about YOU. All he wants are your numbers for the money.

 

Marion Y. (322)
Monday October 12, 2009, 6:28 am
Robert ~ Thanks for posting Moore's letter and the (fake) newsletter. We are better off with Obama and I'm glad to see the world recognizes that fact. The world WANTS America to succeed and they know we now have a chance to do so.

HR676 becomes law? Wouldn't that be the best news of all? The pages of this fake newspaper are riddled with good news..."Court Indicts Bush on High Treason Charge" "Maximum Wage Law Passes Congress" "Nationalized Oil To Fund Climate Change Efforts" "Labor Dept. Launches Job Creation Program" "Crumbling Infrastructure Brings Opportunities" "All Public Universities To Be Free" "Popular 'America’s Army' Video Game, Recruiting Tool Cancelled" "Nation Sets its Sights on Building a Sane Economy" "New York Bike Path System Expanded Dramatically" "Streets Come Alive as Relief and Exuberance Greet End of Conflicts" "Ex-Secretary Apologizes for W.M.D. Scare"

My heart lifted to think this could be our reality if enough Americans demanded it by unseating the Republicans who are against these programs that would benefit all people, rather than work for the blood-sucking corporations and elites while spending huge sums to fool the people. To think we could actually see news like this every single day. Well, Obama was a first step in that direction. We must keep sending the message of peace, nonviolence, hope, sharing and caring. We can make that newsletter become our reality.

Thanks for the smiles.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Monday October 12, 2009, 6:46 am
About the fake newsletter...this cartoon is great!

RepubliDemosaurus
 

Marion Y. (322)
Monday October 12, 2009, 8:41 am
If there was ever any doubt...

White House: Fox News Is 'A Wing Of The Republican Party'

White House Communications Director Anita Dunn slammed Fox News in an interview on CNN with Howie Kurtz this morning, saying that Fox News "is more a wing of the Republican Party" than an objective news organization.

"The reality of it is that Fox News often operates almost as either the research arm or the communications arm of the Republican Party," Dunn said.

"Let's not pretend they're a news network the way CNN is," Dunn said.

And this: "They're widely viewed as part of the Republican Party. Take their talking points, put 'em on the air."

As an example, Dunn pointed to last fall, when the United States was grappling with a financial crisis, two wars and a historic election.

"If you were a Fox News viewer in the fall election, what you would have seen would have been that the biggest stories and the biggest threats facing America were a guy named Bill Ayers and something called ACORN."
_______________________________

A party that parades misinformation, distorts the truth, provides shrieking, inciting media shills whose rhetoric includes hate and incites violence to the public that thinks they are listening to "Fair and Balanced" news is deceptive at least, and criminal at most.

Frank Schaeffer's campaign that most of you signed on to (thank you very much!) includes putting Fox News in check. If the majority of the public knew they were listening to right wing rhetoric, I suspect they would change the channel quickly.
 

chris b. (2474)
Monday October 12, 2009, 9:42 am
The only fox news I'm interested in is that from the UK's League Against Cruel Sports! Especially in the light of the right wing oppositions promise to repeal the anti hunting legisaltion if they win the next general election!
 

Robert S. (115)
Monday October 12, 2009, 10:00 am
I ran into the Times spoof after coming across a thread on which I found a familiar poster admonishing others to stop complaining about the PAct because it had been repealed. Comically, she was quite forceful about it being true, The poster who was told by one (James) before me that it was fake... but would not back down without being handed proof, (seeing as how it was in "The Times" and all...) So I provided some...
Reading back on the thread it seems that others bought it also just because someone said it ...

This reminded me of how many Fox viewers we interact with here, are just as gullible if not more than this example, and steadfastly defend what they hear and see as factual, without looking past the headlines/talking points and so are just lazy. Others believe what they want to believe and just deny other sources with intent.. This speaks to a whole other issue.

I had little doubt when posting it here that my friends would raise an eyebrow and then look deeper. If one does not cast a critical eye on even that which one wants to hear and see. One can be fooled. I trust that my friends know this. Don't we wish that everyone did.

I think of The Times in terms of the Drum beat leading up to Iraq and always take it with a grain of salt....Even the real Times. They have earned that distrust as far as I'm concerned and perhaps thats why they were chosen to be spoofed but I can only guess the motives of "the yes men" who are responsible. Even with my misgiving about The Times they remain a far more credible source than Fox or the Post which was also spoofed recently as seen below. I thought of Sir W when I read the headline.
http://nypost-se.com/
 

Past Member (0)
Monday October 12, 2009, 10:24 am
I must confess, Robert, I felt I was in the Twilight Zone, until my morning coffee kicked in.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Monday October 12, 2009, 11:28 am
Robert ~ Thanks for the great lesson! Many thanks.

The first think I did when accessing your link was to notice it did not seem like the official Times website URL. I read the date, author and became skeptical from the date alone. If someone is not familiar with the different health care reform options being discussed, they would not know what HR676 is. They may not realize health care reform is still being argued in congress and no bill has passed.

I'm also familiar with the propaganda spilled from The Times and other "reputable" publications. I'm careful with liberal and left leaning sites as well. How do I know ownership hasn't changed and was bought out by the opposition? This happens all the time. It seems everyone has an agenda these days and we must be careful we don't get caught up in it if it does not go with our philosophy and agenda.

While it's impossible to always know the truth, we can get closer to it by questioning everything placed before us, including what is shown to us by friends and relatives. Sometimes, they can be the worst instigators in their ignorance.

Thanks so much again, Robert. I hope more people will read thoroughly the petitions they sign, the articles they read and the media information they see and hear. It's more work to investigate, but that is what responsible, accountable citizens do...questions everything.
 

Rob Sullivan (86)
Monday October 12, 2009, 11:55 am
Noted and signed. Thanks, Marion.
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Monday October 12, 2009, 12:59 pm
This has turned into one of the greatest, high-level discussions ever, on Care2! I wish I could give my friends DOZENS of Green Stars, every day something good is posted!

We truly have NOT responded blindly out of negative emotions, when "baited" by the Right. We have used their dis-information as a SPRINGBOARD; as a TEACHING TOOL. This is the way to PRY PEOPLE LOOSE who have been mis-informed and dis-informed and perhaps temporarily lost their way.

There are ENORMOUS FAULT LINES in the Far Right; it is not the monolith it appears. When people realize the ANTI-GAY, ANTI-WOMAN, ANTI-BLACK {and ALL "Colors"} attitude INHERENT in that destructive movement, it will procede to fragment. It is NOT the place for self-respecting Gays {such as the "Log Cabin Republicans" are NOT}, self-respecting Black and Colored People {such as Repuke Chairman Michael Steel is NOT}, and self-respecting WOMEN {such as Sarah Palin! or Phyllis Schafly! are NOT!}. Such people I'm afraid have SERIOUS SELF-ESTEEM ISSUES. Or else they are being fooled BLIND. We the mature and rational ones, have to keep CHIPPING AWAY at those Fault Lines!

Sir Walk F, said:
"The Republicans have no real power, and they continue to dictate the terms of the debate."
"...and they continue to dictate the terms of the debate."

HOW TRUE!!! They only APPEAR to have exaggerated power, because the subservient Media {who are feeding at the SAME trough!}, give them extensive coverage, while virtually IGNORING the opposition as much as they possibly can. Or minimizing the opposition, if it comes to the point where they CAN'T completely ignore it.

The Democrats {see the cartoon of the two-headed beast!} are using the ILLUSION of right-wing power, as an EXCUSE to do nothing, for example on Health Care! I won't say ALL the Democrats..... but, the Blue Dog Democrats for example, among others, are like the corrupt and slanted Media, FEEDING AT THE SAME TROUGH........!!!

As an example of the LACK of power of the Repukes, POLLS SHOW that were taken BEFORE and AFTER the Health Care Brouhaha, and the nastiness at the Town Halls {which the Repukes PROUDLY called, "Town HELLS"! they were BOASTING of it!}; both before, and after all that Repuke noise, THE ACTUAL OPINIONS OF VOTERS CHANGED VERY LITTLE!!!!! STILL, about 73% of us want MEANINGFUL PUBLIC HEALTH CARE REFORM, meaning we WEREN'T SCARED OFF.....!
Didja see THAT in the Media? Only if you looked in the Alternative Media, I bet.....!!!
And NOW the "pundits" are saying that "Health Care Reform is Back From the Dead"; the REAL news, is, IT WAS NEVER DEAD BUT THAT THE MEDIA DECLARED IT SO. Trying by such means, to make us Reformers GIVE UP. But, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON I KNOW, EVER DID GIVE UP for one single second!

Nope, they got no REAL power over us "masses" of people; but, it is convenient for the Ruling Class to make it APPEAR that they do!!! Gives 'em something like "Plausible Deniability" for f++king with us.......

I've been thinking, we need a NEW PARTY that would ATTRACT those people CONFUSED by this "debate"! People DIS-ILLUSIONED WITH BOTH THE DEMS AND THE REPUKES. The Greens, the Green Party, unfortunately, is too wimpy, I am sorry to say, and won't fill the bill. A party that would WELCOME and fulfill the needs of Gays, Women, ALL "People of Color", ALL oppressed minorities. {Which we ALL belong to one way or another -- elderly, handicapped, racial or national or religious minorities, etc. etc. We are EACH AND ALL a minority in SOME way! {Ah, yes, "they" use that to "Divide And Conquer"... so we never recognize our True Unity....!}

This party should COUNTER the "faux populism" used by the Right to MANIPULATE people! It should be TRULY Populist! NOT based on IGNORANCE and Fear! And it should have LGBT in its name -- to get rid of, right at the outset, any bigots who'd think it was for them! {LGBT is Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender.}

I propose, only slightly tongue-in-cheek, "THE LGBT TAX-THE-RICH PARTY"???


 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Monday October 12, 2009, 1:02 pm
Big Gorilly Hugs
 

Cam V. (417)
Monday October 12, 2009, 1:12 pm
The only hate and violence that happened came from the Democratic side .... in both instances people were attacked by Democrats - Never in all my years have I ever seen America so divided - it is not a good thing .... tolerance and respect for the right of each other appear to be gone in your country right now and I fear it will only lead to a very bad outcome .... America needs to start listening to each other ....
 

Nancy M. (202)
Monday October 12, 2009, 2:24 pm
Northern, there really was some "hate" from both sides. Read carefully and think about what someone with a different point of view than yours would think about some of these posts. After a while, I couldn't respond anymore.

Violence? I don't think so. I didn't see anyone here promoting the assassination of President Obama, or other kinds of violence either.
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Monday October 12, 2009, 2:29 pm
Hey nancy...Im kinda stuck in the middle..got friends on the left and got friends on the right...I think Im screwed....LOL Love them all though...

Big Gorilly Hugs
 

Nancy M. (202)
Monday October 12, 2009, 2:33 pm
Me too. That is maybe why I could see some of it. And I probably did say a few things that some might have seen as "hateful" though I didn't mean them that way.

Hugs back to you Gorilly Girl.
 

Nancy M. (202)
Monday October 12, 2009, 2:34 pm
And HUGS to Northern too.

And to all of you- maybe we should end the day by singing Kum ba yah together.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday October 12, 2009, 3:16 pm
Oh...alright. What the hell....Ready, and a one and a two...~kum ba yah my friends, kum ba yah~

Now, let's get back to business.

We Must Confront The Dangerous Trend Towards Violent Extremism In America

The Last Time Right-Wing Hatred Ran Wild Like This a President Was Killed






 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Monday October 12, 2009, 3:18 pm
Pppppppfffffffffttttttttt..crap gotta go theres mjm with the troll spray oh...

BIg Goirlly Hgs
 

Past Member (0)
Monday October 12, 2009, 3:21 pm
We Must Confront The Dangerous Trend Towards Violent Extremism In America

Darn 'hot links'. I guess if it was easy, everyone would be using 'em

 

Past Member (0)
Monday October 12, 2009, 3:23 pm
Big Hugs, Gorilly. You're not to worry :)
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Monday October 12, 2009, 3:32 pm
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to MJ because you have done so within the last week.

You all know maybe Im a Dreamist but wish you all could meet in the middle and really kick some you know what...Polititans would be very very scared...yes indeed they would. Such passions I see here...

Big gorilly Hugs
 

Past Member (0)
Monday October 12, 2009, 3:38 pm
We Must Confront The Dangerous Trend Towards Violent Extremism In America


 

Past Member (0)
Monday October 12, 2009, 3:45 pm
For you, Gorilly.

Ozzy Osbourne-Dreamer

 

Marion Y. (322)
Monday October 12, 2009, 4:33 pm
Rob ~ Thank you for signing! I hope you will spread the word on this important issue. :)

Barbara ~ Coming from you, that's a great compliment! I am VERY pleased with the many people who signed the campaign and the outstanding comments. You are one of them.

Yes, the republican party is breaking down. They lost many people with their war message, failed policies, crashing our economy and the lies. They will lose most of what is remaining of the party when those folks see they were guided by smoke and mirrors.

Sticking with a failing party and cause reminds me of the time my husband asked me why I still had a bank account with Bank of America, knowing they were lousy. I proudly held up my B of A card and showed him that it said I had been a member of B of A for over 15 years!

My husband gave me one of his looks and said, "Is that the only reason you stay with them?"

Embarrassed, I said "Well...yes..."

He didn't have to say anything else to me. I quickly opened an account with a local bank after checking them out and have been rid of B of A for many years. I've always been loyal to people, places and things. But I learned an important lesson that day: be loyal as long as it is a worthy cause.

There comes a time when we must ask ourselves how an association, membership, even a relationship is working out for us. If it goes against our values, beliefs or well-being, we need to consider if it's time to move on.

The Democrat Party is the best of the two evils, but we do need another party that is truly for the people and not for big business and money. We could call it the CLEAN PARTY or THE PEOPLE'S PARTY, or something along those lines.

Whatever it is, the fighting, backstabbing, lies and violence must stop.

If you have a chance to read Robert's (fake) newsletter above, I recommend going through and seeing what life could be like without the corruption.
 

Marion Y. (322)
Monday October 12, 2009, 4:39 pm
MJM ~ The Ozzy Osbourne song almost had me in tears...beautiful...sad...words of peace...haunting...hopeful.

Also, thanks for clearing the air. :)