Wednesday October 7, 2009, 2:41 pm
Since President Obama took office I've felt like the lonely -- maybe crazy -- proverbial canary in the coal mine. As a former right wing leader, who many years ago came to my senses and began to try to undo the harm the movement of religious extremism I helped build has done, I've been telling the media that we're facing a dangerous time in our history. A fringe element of the far right Republican Party seems it believes it has a license to incite threatening behavior in the name of God.

They have singled out President Obama as their target. Since the real President Obama is not who they describe -- no, he's not the Antichrist, was born in America and doesn't want to kill your grandmother -- they have resorted to lies and intimidation to try and stop his agenda of much needed change. The problem is that I believe that Religious Right leaders and their Republican base are also potentially inciting violence. Within their numbers are unhinged people who also happen to be well armed.

Rachel Maddow and the readers of Huffington Post and Alternet have heard my warnings and so have a lot of bloggers. However, most of the media have ignored the looming threat of far right violence while conservatives deride those of us who link crazy talk to the potential of crazy actions. (I explain and expose the link between evangelical/fundamentalist "End Times" theology, politics and violence in my new book Patience With God: Faith For People Who Don't Like Religion (Or Atheism).

Has The Craziness Hit A New High?

What a difference the post-election months of overt thuggery, threatening behavior and outright lying by the right wing horde has made. The village idiot quality of the "Tea Baggers," "Birthers," gun totters, "You Lie(ers)," and the "Let's Secede From The Union(ers)" has made it tougher to discount we who see a looming threat here and a direct line from hate talk to hate actions. It's harder these days to feel sanguine about our prospects for avoiding the calamity spewing from the right's vortex of lies and hate.

The extremism and paranoid delusions of the far, far loony right -- in other words The Republican Party today as led and deformed by Beck/Limbaugh/Fox and the fundamentalist "Christians" --- is now on full display. Even some members of the Republican leadership are beginning to cringe.

Last week Senator Lindsey Graham called Glenn Beck a "cynic" and the Birthers "crazy." Centrists like David Gergen are saying that enough is enough. Gergen said that the racial attacks on Obama are reminiscent of the atmosphere leading to the killing of President Lincoln. Speaking for moderate progressives Thomas Friedman wrote in the New York Times that he saw this same disturbing play of religious hate shortly before Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated in Israel. And Roger Ebert warned of the rise of the fringe in the GOP and how they are undermining democracy.

And in case you didn't know that the far right, big time hate machine and big time religion link up these days consider this: the giant Evangelical publisher Zondervan is crashing out Sarah Palin's memoir. Zondervan is owned by Rupert Murdoch. No, it's not a conspiracy, it's just that all the bottom dwellers eventually find each other in Crazyland.

Other people, besides former evangelicals like me (who have their ear to the ground and hear what's coming before the uninitiated do), are finally starting to realize that there is a serious problem facing America. I'm no longer one of just a few voices (for instance like Max Blumenthal and Jeff Sharlet) saying that the willfully ignorant far Right (usually religion-inspired) is risking our future.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 2:43 pm
The question is: What are we going to do about the haters?

Now some of us -- from moderate Independent voters like me to many people on the progressive side of the Democratic Party -- are organizing to do something about this evil (yes I use that word deliberately) trend. We're doing this because more and more of us see that if unchecked the inflammatory garbage spewing from the Right's hate machines will result in tragedy -- in other words violence.

I started pondering the question of what we could do right after the assassination of Dr. Tiller by a religious extremist. I felt that it wasn't enough to call for boycotts of right wing commentators who spew their hate, because that did not really address the core problems. In fact as a former right wing religious "pro-life" leader I felt compelled to publicly apologize (in the Huffington Post) for the "America-is-like-Nazi-Germany" rhetoric that my late Evangelical leader father and I helped create in the 1970s and 80s that inexorably led to justifying violence in the Tiller case.

Now I want to endorse a campaign to address these issues.

It was launched last week at

http://www.StopDomesticTerror.com

The campaign includes letters from attorney Kevin Zeese and myself to Attorney General Eric Holder asking that he take the issue of domestic terror seriously by investigating and prosecuting threats and acts of violence. I'm working with others on a campaign to reach religious leaders who enable and encourage this violence, and asking for the launching of investigations into the use of the media and web organizations by the right wing to foment violence. It is time to combat hate speech.

We have a long horrible legacy of violence against public figures. The worst chapters in our history have been written in blood by extremists when they felled our moral and political leaders. We must act now to avert another tragedy.

Sign on to our campaign at www.StopDomesticTerror.com.

Thousands have already signed on but we can only make a change through massive collective action. Join us and help build a wall of tolerance to contain the hate.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 2:44 pm
Here's the link:

http://www.stopdomesticterror.com/

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 2:59 pm
Who decides who the haters are?

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:04 pm
Thank You for signing on.

Thanks Marion..It is done

Big goirlly Hugs

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:20 pm
"Other people, besides former evangelicals like me (who have their ear to the ground and hear what's coming before the uninitiated do), are finally starting to realize that there is a serious problem facing America. I'm no longer one of just a few voices (for instance like Max Blumenthal and Jeff Sharlet) saying that the willfully ignorant far Right (usually religion-inspired) is risking our future."

Thank you Gorilly Girl! As Schaeffer says it above, the right is risking our future. We don't have to sit by and watch them crash America.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:20 pm
Thanks Marion. Signed and forwarded to everyone I know.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:23 pm
Thanks a bunch, Marshall!

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:25 pm
Thanks Marion. I to have forwarded this. It is really important to point out that political violence is bad, no matter which side is being violent.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:26 pm
Thank you, Nancy!! Good point about it doesn't matter which side is violent. However, it seems to be coming from the right at this time.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:37 pm
Thanks Marion - I think the article shows what happens when Main-Stream-Media feeds the Trolls!;)

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:46 pm
Thank you Marion, as we have spoken together before, we are indeed in uncertain times..... The Extreme Right has their very own private army of mercs; fundamentalist Erik Pr*nce's Bl*ckw*ter to do "what-ever,' ---Northcom has a battalion for use on US soil. :o(
We must stay positive, we must stand resolute, and not let the hate spread and infect us as well. I have of course joined - Peace love and laughter to all

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:52 pm
Thanks for jumping on this, Yvonne!!

Specifically, we are taking the following steps to address this dangerous trend toward extremism.

1. Urge the Department of Justice to:

* study this trend toward the encouragement of violent lawlessness and initiate action to counter it,
* investigate and prosecute those who are committing and inciting others to commit acts of violence,
* review whether any media groups are violating antitrust laws by monopolizing media or media
markets, or failing in their obligation to meet the "public interest" of their FCC broadcast licenses.
* support an update and study by the FCC and NTIA of the 1993 report, "The Role of
Telecommunications in Hate Crimes."
* Conduct an investigation into the rise of extremism and violence and the role of the media in this
phenomenon

2. Urge Congress to hold hearings on the responsibility of the licensed broadcast media to conduct itself in the public interest

3. Support legislation to require diversity in media ownership, encourage broader minority ownership of FCC licensed media outlets, and that otherwise reverses the dangerous trend of media monopolies allowed following the passage of Bill Clinton's Telecommunications Act of 1996.

4. We are calling on the CEOs and Boards of media organizations to denounce and remove hosts, commentators and others who use the media to incite violence and spread lies that lead others to violence.

5. We are calling on advertisers to cancel all ads on any media that uses the airwaves to spread a message of hate, intolerance, racism, lies and violence.

6. We are calling on religious leaders to denounce all forms of intimidation and violence, and to cooperate with the Department of Justice by reporting information about those who intend to commit violence.

7. We are working with leaders in the religious community who have taken a stand against violence, such as Frank Schaeffer, who was one of the architects of the Religious Right. Mr. Schaeffer, who will be promoting this campaign, has written a letter to Eric Holder offering his cooperation and insight into this trend toward violence and offering suggestions on how to address it.

8. We are supporting the efforts of other organizations that are addressing various aspects of this campaign, such as www.colorofchange.org, www.mediamatters.org, www.shockjock.org, www.rightwingwatch.org, www.splcenter.org, www.nhmc.org., suewilsonreports.com, www.alternet.org, www.freepress.net, www.thinkprogress.org, www.americanprogress.org, www.latinosagainsthatespeech.org, www.adl.org.

http://www.stopdomesticterror.com/

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:01 pm
Pete...Thank you for joining in. Yes, we have spoken on this before. The hate is rising because they are scared they have lost control and now willing to pull out all stops. The right wing is no longer the conservatives of the Republican Party. The conservatives have abandoned the ship and allowed the fringers to take control, which is: birthers, deathers and those willing to believe the lies. Surprisingly, the conservatives of the party who would speak out against the hate are actually planning to become democrats, independents, progressives or greens, rather than stay with a sinking ship.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:02 pm
I signed I am so sick of the violence the arguing the fighting and lies.
Thank you so much Marion

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:06 pm
Thank you, Tierney! You know I feel the same as you.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:25 pm
Signed and forwarded. Thanks Marion.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:30 pm
I don't think so Marion. I think they will be taking back the Republican party.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:34 pm
NE the problem is not who decides.
The problem is what "they" determine to be a troll.which is an average person with a different view.
And they can not legitmately argue their points.
Mainly because it unfactual and leans so far to their own politically ideologies there is obvious no truth in it.
I will be doing some real research on this guy to see who he actually is.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:38 pm
That is what I was hinting at LL. Some view any dissent at all as hate mongering. What in fact is opinion is often viewed as hate speech. AND, it comes from both sides depending on which party is in power at the time.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:51 pm
thanks marion it is done with pleasure !

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 5:56 pm
The Last Time Right-Wing Hatred Ran Wild Like This a President Was Killed

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:02 pm
Signed up! Thank You Marion. I feel we was stop our wars also. Enough violence for one world! Peace, Love and Hugs:)

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:04 pm
MJM, please do not say things like that. Marion, thank you for the article, I will e-mail and write the Department of Justice for snail mail too.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:15 pm
John, Jane, Roy and Bee Hive Lady...

Thank you all for signing to this campaign! This is about peace, stability and democracy.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:35 pm
Bee Hive Lady...Thank you for your concern. I know it seems scary to see a post like MJMs linking to an article about a president being assassinated, but I think it is appropriate to this topic. This is exactly what we are trying to avoid: a nutcase possibly trying to kill the president, as well as other violent, domestic terrorist actions.

MJM...Thank you for your post. It's timely.

You both are my friends, and we are all on the same side of peace. Love you both!

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 6:45 pm
My pleasure to have signed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/#33217296

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 7:15 pm
Thanks Robert. I forgot about this.

Countdown

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 7:22 pm
Robert...Thank you for posting Olbermann's special comment on health care reform. The battle to prevent health care reform has an indirect path to the far right violence we are trying to stop.

I highly recommend everyone view this video. It is not a discussion on health care reform as it is an impassioned talk about pain, life and death due to a lack of health care.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 7:38 pm
SFW's 2 cents:

i think the left has bigger problems than the minority of the lunatic fringe.

Let's focus on pressuring the Democrats to live up to their promises, instead of fretting about the Right Wing Zealots screaming for attention.

Single Payer.

And end to the war on terror, and total removal from Iraq.

Lifting dont ask dont tell.

Closing gitmo.

etc.

Thanks Marion!

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 7:43 pm
SFW...thanks for your 2 cents.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 9:43 pm
they have resorted to lies and intimidation to try and stop his agenda of much needed change. The problem is that I believe that Religious Right leaders and their Republican base are also potentially inciting violence. Within their numbers are unhinged people who also happen to be well armed.

What agenda(s)?
What violence? Where?.........Chicago Southside?
Well armed?........Chicago gangs?

Also, religion of all faiths have been the root of wars
and violence since before Christ.

Social upheavals have always been for all the
reasons mans has thought up in his greed for
and need for power.

Plant trees for life........................

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 10:20 pm
I, as others have done here ask questions, made comments
from what I've read..............Interpretations of what one reads
is the same as in ones interpretation of appearance.

Nothing more......

Freedom of speech reigns....... & is guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.

We all need the trees in order to breath.........

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 10:45 pm
We All Need Room To Grow and Evolve To;

Those that Condemn New Life;
and the Posibility of Evolution to True equality for all...
..Thru Thier Hatefilled Reactionary Attitudes;
Deserve to Be Answered and held accountable;

Even If they Hide in the TREES...

My Apploogies to Marion;

I felt the need to answer as I have Seen the Bigoted Spew...
.. From this Source TOO Many Times..
Anti Population Attitudes,
With Bigoted Racist Roots;
are NO Better than Hitlers Eugenics and Genocide,
and Should Be Given Less Tolerance Today...
.as We Should have Learned From The Mistakes of Past Avoidance and Denial.

I have not signed yet as I feel that this is a Complex Issue and I should research the Links before I sign...

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 11:07 pm
Man has been trying to learn from past beliefs,
behaviors, social & political leanings for so
long it seems to be almost a lost cause.

And to resist making a comment on any one
area of social, political affairs is as tempting
as it is not.........

Opinions are based on ones personal perception
of not only this topic here but all the entertwining
categories of life experiences tied into the subject
being discussed.

Plant trees for life................

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 11:33 pm
Thank You for signing on.

Will you please support our campaign with a donation?


I can't do the donation thing at the moment,
but I've happily signed the letter. Thank you
kindly, Marion! :-)
noted.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:48 am
Well that's stirred up the hornets nest again! Good on yer Marion much sense and balnced comment have you injected ito this and similar debate! I do hope those that have hijacked various religions for there own agendas will perhaps realise that their motives are being exposed!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:26 am
I have signed, thanks Marion. I fully understand the difference between freedom of speech and abuse. I don't think it takes a lot of intelligence to understand that. I fully support our Constitution but I do not support people who can not get past skin color, sexuality, etc.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:15 am
Rod, Pastor Tim, Chris and Marty ~ Thank you all for your comments and support! Watching the cable news shows yesterday and this morning, it appears some of the charged rhetoric seems to have dropped a bit. I believe our efforts are making a difference already. At least those who are inciting violence and telling lies know we're not going to take this lying down.

Tim ~ Donation not required to sign the petition. I'm glad you mentioned this because I don't want anyone to ever feel they need to donate to something I endorse or anyone else's cause. I did not donate either as I am on a set income.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:26 am
Yeah I couldnt dontate either.....I have too many other things on me plate...

Big gOirlly Hugs

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:17 am
Thanks Marion, gladly signed on.......

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:19 am
Signed and noted. Our news channels are so full of hate, violence, bigotry, and those that seem totally crazed, insane, and just looking for a reason to lash out at anyone they can. Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, and many more, including some of the GOP are not only condoning this kind of behavior, they are instigating and urging it on!!! We try and think that at least we don't have a "war" here in our nation! Bull! YES we do! Just look around, it sits right in your own back yard. The massive number of youth in gangs, killing innocent kids, those that decide to be "anarchists", and pull away from our government, our nation, those like David Karesh, and the Waco, TX nightmare, they are all over, just waiting to reek havoc. What about the news full of murder/suicides among families now? Those that set fires in California, that has just devastated that entire state. What about the drug cartel from Mexico? They would just as soon kill someone right here on our border and beyond than to look at them. No one is safe against them, not even border patrols, the armed forces, law enforcement, and innocent people. What about those who are making their own home made bombs from sites they find on the internet? Then we have those that would are so right winged, they arm themselves with automatic weapons, going into our schools, our churches, our malls, and killing anyone in sight. How can anyone that claims to be American give more ammunition with their own hate mongering influence like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin, and so many more that get those already on the edge of lunacy more fuel with their biased and hate talking mouths? They are not the Americans I know or want to know. We are no longer fighting terrorism, hate, gangs, drugs, those that wage war in the name of "God" somewhere in a foreign land. They are right here, waiting to harm whomever they can. It is a very frightening time in this nation, and my fear it that it will get much worse before getting better. Many of them use President Obama as a scapegoat for their behavior. Sometimes I don't think it has to do with the color of his skin, or his beliefs... it is more about them finding someone or something else for an excuse to wag their tongues, and cause dismay in our country.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:19 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to B. because you have done so within the last week

If I could you a million stars for those comments i would BM.
Those are great points to make concerning Religion of any type,not just Christianity.
Violence has nothing to do with one's religion,it is merely an excuse.Even without religion people would still find an excuse to fight about.It is a part of human nature.The only real way to address violence is to acknowledge that ascept of our nature as much as we do our abilities for love,compassion and bravery.

To blame an excuse does not solve a problem.
To blame only one side does not solve any problems.
To lump everyone together on the Right for the actions of a fundamentalist few will not solvce anything and only furthers gaps and divides in this country.
it would be very easy for me to say that "Well everyone on the Left are like those G-20 Anarchist".
Wh defintely showed their ability to commit violent acts.
While Protesters on the right are walking around with Guns (which is their right under the constitution) the Anarchist are actually causing violence by throwing bricks into business,vandalizing cars and even using dumpsters as battering rams.
BUT I know better then throw all the G-20 protesters into a the same group as these hooligans/fundamentalist.That was simple not the case.Not all the protesters were out there to do such things and were peaceful protesting their cause only to get dragged into a violent situation by these other people.
The week before the Right held a huge protest,carring guns and all, and their was NO violence acted out by anyone.
So this whole the "Right is violent" thing holds no weight whats so ever.
and the Left's constant pratice of labeling anyone that even slightly disagree with them as a Right winger etc... shows a real lack of practicing what they preach.
Not all Leftys are like that like by the way.
You can not blame one person or one group for anything.
We are all capable of horrible acts.

I would really like to hear more about the Anti-Population theroy that Rod gesner was talking about.But not sure if this is the right thread.Seriously,it has peaked my interest Rod.If you have any time could you send me a link maybe thru an introduction.i would appreciate it.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:29 am
Violence of course takes many forms not just physically bashing someone! Marion I too sometimes get carried away withe the proverbial exuberance of my own verbosity! I come down to earth pdq when the brain overheat light starts flashing! Oh yes, even my 3 cell brain warms at times! Iave even been known to go back into teacher mode on occasions. Well it makes a change from truck driver or retired lunatic! A common thread would appear to be the cash stappedness of the passionate and useful members of socity and the over abundance of material riches of the proponents of fascist and uncaring or violent warlike remedies such as nuking ones enemies declaring cats terrorists and killing God's creatures for no good reason other than they are there!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:28 am
Thank you so much Lady L.........

I have so much I've wanted to write/say.
However......I'll be back must run for the moment

Thank you again.......Plant trees for life...................

Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:52 am
We the people, many awakened by the excesses of the last administration and its crony laden Corporate run and war for profit agenda, voted to remove the Corporate arm of our government (Republicans) out of power. We the people wanted Corporate power checked. The Extreme right wing and Fox including Beck will do or say anything to make us fear our own elected Governments efforts to fight for us (the people). Corporations and there lackeys have a huge interest in keeping our government working for them and them only. Any attempt to control Corporate power is called Communist or Government takeover in order to win the fight through fear and intimidation.

This is a battle between Corporate control of our government and an oppressed and cheated peoples attempt to control that Corporate power through free election and the promised actions of those we elected. It is not a government takeover, but a people trying to take there country back from those who think that money should rule as king. Corporations don't care about America, or the flag, or the Constitution, or the people. For them it's about the bottom line. When people wake up to who Beck works for, who Fox works for, and what their agenda is, it will be a great day for this nation and its people. For now the Fox Nation is sold a nightmare as they slumber and persuaded easily because some, (too many) Dems like Republicans have been bought. Too many among them are greedy also, and they cower for political reasons when, however unfairly, words like Communist are hurled at them....but within this system the Dems and Obama are all we have to turn too. I am grateful that anyone, even these imperfect Dem Reps of ours, threatened and insulted, and in Obama's case, in great personal danger, hold up the peoples tattered banner, because while Corporations talk about freedom, it isn't our freedom they are worried about but their own freedom to do what ever the hell they want at our expense.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:04 am
Pam.. Thank you for signing. I appreciate your impassioned comment about the hate, violence and bigotry in our country and those who incite these unbalanced people. This campaign will work to stop this domestic terrorism and more...

1 - Urge the Dept of Justice to: study these violent lawlessness and act to counter it, investigate and prosecute those who are committing and inciting others to commit violence, review media groups who are violating laws or monopolizing the airwaves, investigate the rise in extremism and violence and the role the media plays in this.

2 - Urge Congress to hold hearings on the responsibility of the licensed broadcast media to conduct itself in the public interest

3 - Support legislation to require diversity in media ownership, encourage broader minority ownership of FCC licensed media outlets, and that otherwise reverses the dangerous trend of media monopolies allowed

4 - We are calling on the CEOs and Boards of media organizations to denounce and remove hosts, commentators and others who use the media to incite violence and spread lies that lead others to violence.

5 - We are calling on advertisers to cancel all ads on any media that uses the airwaves to spread a message of hate, intolerance, racism, lies and violence.

6 - We are calling on religious leaders to denounce all forms of intimidation and violence, and to cooperate with the Department of Justice by reporting information about those who intend to commit violence.

I'm encouraged by this campaign. Murdoch, Beck, Limbaugh and others could lose all advertising dollars, their license to operate and even be prosecuted if they are found to be inciting others to violence and telling lies. This is a full out attack to stop these ruthless people from leading the mindless among us.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:15 am
hate is a strong word... but hate is normally derived from fear, a fear of someone else coming in and being in control... hate is a reaction to this, this is why there to is a lot of racism.. this war that rages in the boardrooms of America is a cause for concern... as hate can blind one to the true reality of day to day activities.. this is dangerous... they turly have to take responsibility and stop behaving like a bunch of boy scouts and take the bull by the horns - correct the failures of the past.. They must stop participating in the noise and get on with governing the country for the sake of all its people

Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:20 am
"it isn't our freedom they are worried about but their own freedom to do what ever the hell they want at our expense. "

Well said, Robert!!! We have a society of people who will listen to the devil who looks like them, rather than the messenger who may appear ugly or different to them. Most cable and news media have handsome men and beautiful women delivering the news with revealing clothing. The producers have studied people and know we gravitate toward the best of what we hope to aspire to. They sell dreams. While they're at it, they can also tell lies. We've all been conditioned this way and it takes reprogramming to break from this hypnotic state of mind to get to the truth.

Have you seen the Matrix movies? There's a scene in the Matrix that brings this home so well. There's nothing wrong with listening to beautiful people who look like us. Only when we truly listen for the truth, will we break free and go toward it. And we cannot know the truth if we are not honest with ourselves first.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:49 am
Chris B: "Violence of course takes many forms not just physically bashing someone!"

Yes, and it comes out in different ways...emotional and verbal abuse inside the home and toward society. It's about power and control, same as with physical abuse. Despite what many people believe, domestic violence and abuse is not due to the abuser’s loss of control over his behavior. In fact, abusive behavior and violence is a deliberate choice made by the abuser in order to control you.

We know these people need help and are sick. All they need is someone to incite them. This campaign aims to address this and stop the violence. We also need to bring back programs that Reagan and the Bushes dismantled that helped the mentally ill. Many of these deranged and unbalanced individuals are running loose in society wreaking havoc with no help. As the economy continues to drop, we will have more unbalanced people to deal with. Thanks for addressing this, Chris.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:52 am
Comment by Marion:
Have you seen the Matrix movies? There's a scene in the Matrix that brings this home so well. There's nothing wrong with listening to beautiful people who look like us. Only when we truly listen for the truth, will we break free and go toward it. And we cannot know the truth if we are not honest with ourselves first.

I've read the thread comments & the common bodage theme
seems to be "looking for the truth." Well, so far as I've been
able to decern no one has spoken/written of what the truth
is................

What is it?
Where is it?

And, most of the comments have hinted at
a group who seem to control everything but
our thoughts.

Could it be the top secrete Bilderburg group?
Angelina Jolie belongs to it
Michelle Obama belongs to it..............

So who is pulling whose string for survival?
Who is dictating what we do & say freely?
Or not say/do so freely.

In whose hand(s) does our very existence
depend.?.....All 6.8 billion of us!

Plant trees for life.....................

I know one thing with certainty.........It is not the animal world.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:56 am
Chaz: "hate is a strong word... but hate is normally derived from fear, a fear of someone else coming in and being in control"

Well said. The antidote to hate and fear is LOVE and COURAGE. Somehow we must teach people to turn on the right switch so they stop being destructive...and start being productive. I don't believe anyone intentionally wants to live a hate-filled life.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:01 am
I just signed on. Exactly my way of thinking. Glad to be on board

Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:14 am
Gladly signed up for this. TY Marion

Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:20 am
James and Cynthia...Thank you for signing up! I know this issue has been a concern for both of you.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:27 am
im more afraid of far left extremism and left social programs which create violence and dependence on gov. which creates a vicious circle that keeps people in poverty and depending on gov. handouts....chicago is a good example of how these social programs create poverty

Thursday October 8, 2009, 10:53 am
Frank Schaeffer's words ring true:

What a difference the post-election months of overt thuggery, threatening behavior and outright lying by the right wing horde has made. The village idiot quality of the "Tea Baggers," "Birthers," gun totters, "You Lie(ers)," and the "Let's Secede From The Union(ers)" has made it tougher to discount we who see a looming threat here and a direct line from hate talk to hate actions. It's harder these days to feel sanguine about our prospects for avoiding the calamity spewing from the right's vortex of lies and hate.

The extremism and paranoid delusions of the far, far loony right -- in other words The Republican Party today as led and deformed by Beck/Limbaugh/Fox and the fundamentalist "Christians" --- is now on full display. Even some members of the Republican leadership are beginning to cringe.

Last week Senator Lindsey Graham called Glenn Beck a "cynic" and the Birthers "crazy." Centrists like David Gergen are saying that enough is enough.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:09 am
Thanks for the article Marion, signed and noted. This is a subject I've been concerned about for some time. The comments from the usual racist source show you've hit the nail on the head again!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:12 am
The upside of all this though is that the right is showing its true colors and is beginning to alienate many of their more moderate followers.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:22 am
Bingo Joe

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:26 am
Thank you, Thomas! We are also working to stop lies and harassment in blogs like this. This is a form of violence as well. It's just a matter of time.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:30 am
You going to restrict freedom of speech now? Interesting. And you guys think we are paranoid!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:31 am
"This is a form of violence as well."

Correction: This is a form of violence as well because it is abusive to lie and harass others with the same garbage when we all know it is not true. The same people who argue in this thread wanting to stop us from joining this campaign are the same trolls who have been advocating this destructive incitement and behavior throughout Care2.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:34 am
Thank Goodness for Frank Schaeffer and others like him who are brave enough to stand up, even to their own upbringing and family beliefs. These are our Sauls who turn into Pauls and help us in our good works. Thanks Frank! I have joined your campaign and look forward to helping anyway I can.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:38 am
Man blows off hands making explosives
LAKE ELSINORE, Calif. (KABC) -- Law enforcement sources say a man blew his hands off while mixing homemade high explosives inside his family's home in Lake Elsinore, where his mother ran a day care center. The man, said to be in his early 20s, was found with what's being described as a substantial quantity of the high explosive TATP. Neo Nazi and anarchist type literature were found in the home. TATP was used in the London bombings and suspected in the current Zazi alleged terrorism case.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:45 am
What about the far left violence? Are you going to address it as well?

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:50 am
Thank you, Dragonfly! Your signature helps to stop the violence.

I hope everyone is sharing this link with family and friends outside of Care2 as well.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:58 am
There is nothing 'Grand' about this Old Party?

GOP- KKK, same thing, now!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:08 pm
Marshall ~ Thank you!!! This article says it all.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:09 pm
It is the spiritual truth and awakening happening RIGHT NOW, ALL ways bringing all this negativity, abuse of power, etc. to the surface to be cleansed , transmuted and healed. It would almost be comical except for the folks who are "suffering"and in pain because of it, my heart goes out to them as they take the NECCESSARY steps in finding out who they REALLY are.

As hard as it is to believe for some, these right wing folks serve the divine plan in the"end". WE create OUR own REALities, every minute of every hour , everyday, CONCIOUSly or UNconsciously.


Happiness is a decision, not an experience. Love is not a reaction, LOVE IS a decision. YOU CAN love ANYONE you choose, including Y-OURself, all THE TIME AND allWAYS.:):):)

Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:17 pm
There is nothing 'Grand' about this Old Party, or it's defenders.

Bingo, Thomas! Anyone with half a brain would have to be deserting ship by now. The ones staying behind and defending that bunch of racists, deserve to go down with the ship.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:27 pm
Freedom of speech.
Ironically this phrase and right we hold dear, written down for us as law to ensure that truth be heard, is by its very nature also license to the idiot and or liar.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:30 pm
Marion, of course. This issue is so important that I have sent to friends here as well as to family and friends outside of care2.

Pastor Tim, thank you. I think that you have clearly prayed about the issue and have a sense of what Jesus would really do. Never in all my years in Church, have I ever heard of Jesus promoting hate.

I also do remember the old responsibility thing. We have rights, but ONLY if we are responsible in using them. For example, if you scream “Fire” in a public setting and there is no fire, then of course, you are thrown out. Likewise, we all have a “right to bear arms” but as soon as society is out of control with violent use of guns for criminal purposes, there is a crackdown in terms of purchasing hold times and such.

Likewise, we have the responsibility to use our “freedom of speech” in a responsible manner. There are many responsible and positive ways to express opinions on both sides of any argument. It doesn’t matter if you are for Bush and the war, or against Bush and the war. It can be expressed in a positive thoughtful way. Solutions can also be expressed and that is even more positive.

On the other hand, since the election in the fall of 2008, we have all heard “HATE” from segments of our society. NOTHING BUT HATE. Ministers calling for the assassination of our President. That is not responsible use of the freedom of speech. THAT is stirring the hate pot. That promotes negativity just as Rush saying that he hopes Obama fails stirs negativity.

That is what is wrong with our country today.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 12:38 pm
I signed in, thanks, Marion. The is a somewhat new book called "The Family" by Jeff Sharlet. It provides some insight into fundamentalism and politicians. The book shows some scary thoughts of how a few people want to gain power. It is beyond me how a persons political leanings or beliefs can lead to hatred and violence.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:04 pm
but thanks Marion for your effort to silence the MAJORITY, WHO DON`T WANT OBAMAcare!!!!

MORE THAN 1300 000 Americans DON`t want that government change their healthcare system!!

please sign petition and join more than 1 000 000, who have already signed
http://www.freeourhealthcarenow.com/

Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:25 pm
Krisy, Krisy...have you no shame? Do you really think that by repeating the lies enough, that they will become the truth? Your desperation is bordering on insanity. America is getting wise to your tactics.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:31 pm
Here Krisy. Let me help you out.

Free our Healthcare

Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:50 pm
well what did I say insulting

perhaps report everyone, who objects to Obamacare to Secret Service??

then you should report several millions people

and death panels were included in healthcare bill
it is fact

and Obama lied about Iraq and Afghanistan war it is fact

Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:51 pm
and you should change tittle of this article to

Organizing to Stop dissent

and accept Obama`s policies , otherwise I will report you to Secret Service

Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:53 pm
Marion what did I stumble into....LOL Pffffffffttttttttttt Obamacare...since when was it called that...LOL

Big goirlly Hugs

Thursday October 8, 2009, 1:55 pm
Thank you Marion. There are so many of us on this thread that do not approve of everything that Obama has done or not done. Yet we respect that he is president and respond with our dissent (when there is some) in positive ways.

Well said Gorilly Girl.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:07 pm
Gorilly Girl and Nancy ~ Thank you! Yep, the flies are buzzing but I have my fly swatter handy (flag button). I think MJMs troll spray drove them crazy. This discussion is about far right violence, not Obama supporters. That's what I mean about distorting the information and topic.

Serge ~ Thank you so much for your comment. It is so right on and beautiful, I will repeat it in case others missed it:

"It is the spiritual truth and awakening happening RIGHT NOW, ALL ways bringing all this negativity, abuse of power, etc. to the surface to be cleansed , transmuted and healed. It would almost be comical except for the folks who are "suffering"and in pain because of it, my heart goes out to them as they take the NECCESSARY steps in finding out who they REALLY are.

As hard as it is to believe for some, these right wing folks serve the divine plan in the"end". WE create OUR own REALities, every minute of every hour , everyday, CONCIOUSly or UNconsciously.

Happiness is a decision, not an experience. Love is not a reaction, LOVE IS a decision. YOU CAN love ANYONE you choose, including Y-OURself, all THE TIME AND allWAYS.:):):)"

Thank you, my friend. Your light shines for us all.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:09 pm
Reminds me of the old saying- you kill more flies with honey!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:09 pm
MJM ~ A BIG "thank you" my friend! I shouldn't have to say why.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:11 pm
I've run out of honey, Nancy. The troll nonsense has gone too far, my friend.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:32 pm
I;m no more a troll than the man in the moon.

I happen to be a real person who has opinions
and thoughts no matter how limited they may
be.

Since the U.S. Constitution guarantees free speech
as long as it harms nor another me & others have a
garateed right to voice our thoughts freely as much
as anyone else.

Plant trees for life....................

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:44 pm
Marion.......Do you believe in a variety of thoughts
& opinions that may not necessarily agree with your own?

Seems to me that is what any discussion is all about.
A variety of opinions to draw a conclusion to whatever
is being discussed.

Last time I checked we are not in China or N. Korea!

Remember the word diversity?........Diversity includes
all opinions/thought no matter how obscure or even
removed from said topic. Everything is tied into another
area of life as I see it.........Nothing stands alone without
at at least one other voice or proof to back it up.

Plant trees for life....................

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:46 pm
Thanks, Marion, et al, for this. I do not cower any longer. I take names and all info against our President and Congressional GOP'ers who spout violent, negative rhetoric on the internet. I have no time for their garbage and report it to the FBI immediately!
If we are going to have an insurrection in this country, let it be those who love and support the USA and not the haters.
How do we post this entire story on our facebook and mysapce accounts? Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain

Thursday October 8, 2009, 2:47 pm
Any time Marion, my great friend. I was trully flattered by Krissy's remark insinuating that we are one in the same person. Problem is, now I have to watch my words closer. I would never want to cast a bad light on my dear friend.

Doesn't my profile pretty much expose me as one of a kind? I know that yours certainly does.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:03 pm
BM, you sure do a lot of talking. What are you trying to say? Diversity good? OK
Lies, mistruths, propaganda, hate speech, racism, bigotry, ALL BAD!
Stop trying to give respectability to these scum that would promote these terrible traits under the guise of 'diversity'.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:28 pm
George ~ I'm glad you've jumped on the wagon by signing on to stop the violence and negative rhetoric. I agree: we all have our differences, but to trash the country because of hate and anger has no place in a democracy.

Facebook: Go into your account and in the SHARE box, paste this information:

PETITION: Organizing to Stop Far Right Violence
http://bit.ly/yeuoF

Your wall on Facebook will then show this thread for others to view. I hope this is what you are looking for.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:33 pm
Krisjanis has been REMOVED. One more troll gone. Anyone else?

As long as no one engages a troll and they keep posting in a thread, they can be removed.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:39 pm
MJM.....In an earlier post I ask the following:
Wednesday October 7, 2009, 9:43 pm
they have resorted to lies and intimidation to try and stop his agenda of much needed change. The problem is that I believe that Religious Right leaders and their Republican base are also potentially inciting violence. Within their numbers are unhinged people who also happen to be well armed.

What agenda(s)?
What violence? Where?.........Chicago Southside?
Well armed?........Chicago gangs?

Also, religion of all faiths have been the root of wars
and violence since before Christ.

Social upheavals have always been for all the
reasons mans has thought up in his greed for
and need for power.
........................................................................

Prey tell where do you see/get lies, mistrurhs,
propaganda, hate, racism,bigotry from my question?

The voilence(Chicago) is real that I mentioned above.
It happened, it is not imaginary. And, religion
has been the root cause in all conflicts of
war as much as the greed for power over
ones people whether it was WW2 or now
in Afganistan. Hitlers God was power, &
the U.S. God is not much different.
However, our God is a lot different than
those muslim Gods.................

Yes.....I talk alot, trying to keep up with
another is tough sometimes.


Finally, all the chatter here will not change
one single thing our present government
is hell bent on doing. The war will go on,
our health care will become nickle & dime
stuff to make someone else richer

Power play at the peoples expense..................

Plant trees for life........................

Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:48 pm
I agree 100% with this post! First we should burn that damn Constitution. Then we find someone who is smarter than everybody else and put them in charge of deciding what we should be allowed to see and hear in the media. This person would decide which dissent is hate speech and put whomever did it in jail. No trial necessary.
And to stop any underground stuff they should police the internet. They might also need to put microphones or perhaps even small cameras in our homes and business lest some of these hate-mongers start disagreeing with the government in private because this could spread and cause violence too. Then in schools we could teach the students how to help recognize this unauthorized speech and they could listen in on their parents and look thru their parents books in case they have a Glenn Beck book or something. There would be a hotline set up to turn these people in.
Heck yeah! I'm all in! We can stop this stuff quickly.
If only the British had had the technology and the sense to do this in the 1770's just think of all the violence they would have prevented.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:57 pm
Please comment on the story and your thoughts on the story and please leave the personal differences and attacks off of this site. If you wish to engage in hostility towards each other, please do so in private or off of this website. This conduct disrupts other contributors from feeling welcome to express themselves. This will not be tolerated any further. Thank you.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 3:59 pm
Sorry, Care2. BM asked us to check the profile.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:06 pm
Thank you MJM....................

It is gibberish to you, however you probably missed
the point of the entire page. I'm sure there would be
many in the government whose hearts would soften
the reading of In These Rooms & The Invitation.

Sorry you did not relate............Poor thing. S.M.I.L.E.

Plant trees for life......................

P.S. It is rich.......In thought & soul.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:09 pm
Mark G says : 'I agree 100% with this post!'

Welcome aboard, Marky! Don't forget to 'note it'.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:14 pm
Thank you, Care2 Support.

Communities Online: Trolling and Harassment A great article on the topic to help keep threads clean.

Okay folks...back on topic.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:16 pm
Remember what Lenin said:
"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it."

As an outsider may I remind you that from Roman times on, divide and conquer has been used to great effect.

It the Left/Right paradigm is continually enforced and you are kept fighting each other instead of the crooks who run things,...it all goes down the tube...or actually to off-shore bank accounts.

Obama perpetuates the Bush wars and rewarded the Banksters who have stolen TRILLIONS....that's all you need to know to know that you are being played.

It's ALL theater!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:17 pm
ACTION: We Must Confront The Dangerous Trend Towards Violent Extremism In America

Send a Letter to Congress

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:19 pm
Judy ~ You are off topic. We are talking about right wing violence.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 4:47 pm
Wait a minute......As I've plodded & plundered through
the thread comments most of it was about government health care.

Right?

Is the health care going to get violent? Maybe we all
are going to be marched off to a doctor not of our choosing
with a machine gun stuck in our back.

If that is so or could happen heaven help us from the far right!


Can someone define for me right wing violence. Gee, I never heard
of such a thing before........I've never heard or seen a news report
of right wing riots, murder or mayhem.

Is this happening now & where?

Did I miss something?.

Plant trees for life................

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:02 pm
Marion, how refreshing to see some sort of strategy to deal with trolls on this site. I get so frustrated on other sites when we are talking about something important and they get to spew all live long day while our posts sometimes get wiped out. This is the first I've seen of a strategy, and it's simple. Just don't respond. It's hard sometimes. This is good stuff.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:05 pm
Carrying on about trolls doesn't give this story any more credibility. The assassinations of JFK, MLK and RFK were not due to fundamentalists but were inside jobs.

Explain how fundamentalists got the secret service to stand down.

Huffington Post is a left gatekeeper site run by a woman who originally came from the right.

As Lenin said: "The best way to control the opposition is to lead it."

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:14 pm
I'm glad this helps, Dragonfly. Be sure to visit the troll link and go through it. It's quite an education as it defines the various types of trolls, their methods and how to deal with them. It's usually to identify a troll: they attack, rather than use conversational courtesy to engage in discussion. If you are taken aback by a confrontational comment, you may be dealing with a troll. I'm hoping everyone learns how to deal with this so we can enjoy discussions more.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:23 pm
Marion!!! Done!!! Likely, more will join your cause. It is a sad state of affairs when some has to prove their ignorance and arrogance with no forethought whatsoever. They prattle on and on and say nothing. It is a breath of fresh air today to hear the good news regarding our health Care Plan and the netherparts that the Dems seem to be growing (FINALLY) in putting the screws to the DINOS who side constantly with the "moan, groan, we're all alone and sooo picked on" fringe crowd. I think we are going to see some great changes in the not too distant future (days???). Annnnd spending is up!!! This must fry the goobers of the wah-wah crowd! More power to our side where the sun shines so much brighter!!! D-d-d-dak!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:30 pm
Judy, if you've got some info on those assassinations, I bet the Secret Service would like that info. Please, share.

When did Arianna Huffington become a leader or controller of anything?

This is what America should be concerned about.

The Last Time Right-Wing Hatred Ran Wild Like This a President Was Killed

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:39 pm
'Recently, there has been an explosion in threats and acts of domestic terrorism. The majority of these can be traced to groups and individuals who do not accept the results of our recent election or the laws enacted or proposed by those who have been elected. They seek to undermine the democratic process through threats, intimidation, and even outright murder. They can't accept the legitimacy of the President, or a woman's legal right to make choices about her own medical care, or an immigrant's right to be treated humanely under the law, so they carry out acts that are antithetical to American democracy, American values, and both civil and human rights.'

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:40 pm
The fringe elements that makes up those who commit these acts of terror, are frequently exploited by a continuous wave of right wing media advocating violence, either directly or indirectly, by commentators amplifying the talking points of extremist religious leaders and extremist political leaders. The fringe is incited on our public airwaves, and urged to take matters into their own hands, with the underlying belief that the Bible and/or U.S. Constitution justify using "whatever means" are necessary to oppose what they believe to be immoral laws.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:41 pm
So true Judy.


TAKEN FROM MARION'S LINK:

"Before we begin, it's worth noting that the term "troll" is one of the most frequently cited insults in the online environment. IT IS OFTEN USED TO BRAND, SILENCE OR SCAPEGOAT A MEMBER WITH A DISSENTING OR UNPOPULAR OPINION."

Dissent is not hate speech. At the risk of being "flagged" I would like to ask again....will those of you who signed also condemn hate speech and violence from the far left?

Last time I checked this was still America and the 1st amendment, for the time being is still in place no matter how much the far left wing nuts wish it weren't.

This thread is dripping with hypocrisy.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 5:49 pm
What America should be concerned about is people trying to silence those they don't agree with!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:07 pm
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/12/crush-the-obamedia-narrative-look-whos-gripped-by-insane-rage/

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:10 pm
Sorry Marion. It just sickens me when they attack you personaly.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:13 pm
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/17/nutroots-suddenly-hypersensitive-about-nazipresident-comparisons/

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:20 pm
TY, Marion for this. Noted, and SIGNED!!! Thank You for signing on. ;-)

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:22 pm
Thank you NE L.

Plant trees for life................

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:25 pm
You are quite welcome B. M.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:42 pm
Is this hate you can believe in?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:44 pm
The hate and rhetoric comes from BOTH sides whether you want to believe it or not.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 6:49 pm
I was all ready to just walk away from this thread until "someone" made it personal. As a matter of fact I had stopped tracking it until a friend sent me a personal msg to alert me to the ridiculous accusations leveled at me and others. Thanks friend ;)

For every post you can point to of right wing hate I can point you to hate from the left.

I have said this before and I will say it again...this gets us nowhere!!!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:01 pm
NE L. I've told you over and over. Only the right can hate. The left is only trying to HELP. Help is not hate, man. Obviously you need another brainwashing session...

Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:07 pm
Palm to forehead....what was I thinking? I'll try to remember that in the future.

Thanks!

Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:55 pm
"The fringe elements that makes up those who commit these acts of terror, are frequently exploited by a continuous wave of right wing media advocating violence, either directly or indirectly, by commentators amplifying the talking points of extremist religious leaders and extremist political leaders. The fringe is incited on our public airwaves, and urged to take matters into their own hands, with the underlying belief that the Bible and/or U.S. Constitution justify using "whatever means" are necessary to oppose what they believe to be immoral laws."

Nail hit on the head again, MJ M. We keep seeing, even here on this forum, any attempt to decry or stop right-wing broadcast hatred likened to Nazi book burning and censorship. How thoroughly original, right-wing gas bags comparing progressively minded people to Nazis, couldn't see that coming. No attempt of course to compare those spewing the fascist hate-speech with Nazis, even though the Nazis employed the same methods to incite the first violence against the Jews in Germany, leading to krystalnacht, and finally the holocaust.

In a perfect world, it wouldn't matter what Beck, Limbaugh et al said on the air because the populace would be intelligent enough to distinguish hate from intelligent commentary, facts from lies, and news from propaganda. Unfortunately, we live in a country with a populace suffering from decades of a continually downgraded school system, and the average level of education has plummeted far below that of a number of third world countries. In this environment of easily swayed, weak intellects, we'd damn well better be paying attention to what propaganda and hate speech is being pumped into the brains of the masses.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 7:55 pm
George ~ Yes, things are looking up and I am encouraged too about health care and related issues. All the more reason to continue our efforts to squash far right violence from those who want this Administration to fail. Sad, but it's the reality we deal with. I'm also encouraged that this thread is nearing 75 notes from all the activity and attention. Good. That means the exposure will drive more people to join the campaign. Yaaayy!!

Gran P ~ Thank you for signing on!! We are making headway! Please share this link with your contacts. We are doing it for the safety and stability of our nation.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:21 pm
It is both a sad and scary fact, that intellectuals have never gravitated toward the right. What is so sad is that they remind us of this continueously. What's scary is that they are proud of the fact.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:41 pm
What needs to be done is to iinvestigate, detain, interrogate and prosecute the Christian Taliban of America its bombers, assassins, enablers, promoters, and cheerleaders with the full powers and to the fullest extent of the Patriot Act, equal protection and prosecution under the law for Islamic and Christian terrorists alike. This will most likely, if there actually was a chance in hell of anyone in the Obama DOJ having the spine the actually enforce American law with no one above the law that they have shown themselves incapable of with torture, accomplish two things show the Christian Taliban that being christian Americans does not put them above the reach of US laws and put the true and necessary fear of the Patriot Act and just what it is and can do into the Congress of the USA, particularly the Repugnican 'National security over civil rights' right -wingers to repeal the Patriot Act of at least support and vote for the Justice Act. The whole concept of actually treating the Christian Taliban exactly like the extremist terrorist religious group it actually is warms my heart and gives me hope for true democracy and the rule of law in America.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 8:51 pm
Thomas: "Unfortunately, we live in a country with a populace suffering from decades of a continually downgraded school system, and the average level of education has plummeted far below that of a number of third world countries. In this environment of easily swayed, weak intellects, we'd damn well better be paying attention to what propaganda and hate speech is being pumped into the brains of the masses."

Out of the ether comes clarity and answers. Take this weak intellect, throw in a collapsed economy, a new black president, and we get ridiculous extreme far right tactics to "take our country back." Led by Beck, Limbaugh and others who are handsomely paid by the corporations and elites, they've moved from birthers, to death panels, to the White House is spying on your Facebook page, to the Obama speech to children as akin to the Hitler Youth Brigade, and they suggested that a democrat effort to beef up relief efforts for natural disasters was actually a plan to round up and imprison the President's critics to form "concentration camps for political dissidents, such as occurred in Nazi Germany."

A thinking person would come to the conclusion that if we struck out on this claim, then this one, and now that one, maybe we're on the wrong track and these are lies. Maybe we should investigate for the truth. How can we believe the source when we keep getting lied to?

Starting at 2:50 on this video, Melissa Harris-Lacewell, explains why the fringers are now trying to impeach Obama (I'm laughing!) and what underlies this far right wing movement to associate Obama with these outrageous claims. The answer is astonishing...and all the more reason this campaign to stop the violence is needed.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:03 pm
Marshall ~ Which is why mainstream Republicans are trying to distance themselves from the far right. They're scared too. Yet, they will still accept their votes, while letting Beck and Limbaugh do the dirty work.

Lloyd ~ Wouldn't that be wonderful? To prosecute these criminals would implicate 3/4ths of Congress and shut down government. That could be the reason for inaction. The day may come for a revolution. But right now, this country needs stability and security. Thanks for stopping in.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:08 pm
I want to thank you for that link I will be signing it because I am tired of the right winged fear mongering mumbo Jumbo they are spewing towards us. I also want to say that Prophacy notes is another one and live prayer also does this about Obama. I am sick of hearing the lies and fear mongering stuff. I want to put on my news and get informed not scared to support a causes because they think they are Holier then thou. I been attending a IFB type church and the people in that is brainwashed to thinking all the lies about Our president. I have caused a rift with my husband and I and he wants me to not listen to the far right winged people. I think its time for a change.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:24 pm
Karrie ~ Thanks for signing on. I think this campaign will help to make us safer. These are uncertain times. Far right wing (fringers) are good people too. They're scared. Some of what they hear and believe is true. But it is also mixed with lies. We need a media that is required to be honest with us and research the information they tell us so we can make better decisions. That is what this campaign is about too. Stay strong and hold on. Keep seeking the truth. You will know it when you find it.

Thursday October 8, 2009, 9:39 pm
I'm not sure what to say, Lloyd. Will we start the prosecutions with the Grand Puba of the Christian Taliban, Rush Limbaugh? Do we use Bushy's Patriot Act to take down that whole stinkin' lot? I love it! If the Patriot Act is gonna take away my Constitutional Rights, it sure as hell better be taking away those of those traitorous thugs as well. Beck to O'Really, Bachman to Palin. Aren't these people all inciting their braindead followers to overthrow the Government? WTF is that Patriot Act good for, anyway? So they can read MY email? Tap MY phone? Lock ME up for years without charges? (you know, these questions are all rhetorical).

Thursday October 8, 2009, 11:09 pm
My humble opinion, I don't waste my time with the right or left agendas, because neither of these parties truly put the betterment of the people, FIRST. Too many other important campaigns to sign on with the thousands of causes screaming to humanity for relief and change.

This article disgusts me as all the others one do.....

It is the SAME OLD PARADIGM, of "one side is violent and one side isn't" or "they are wrong and we are correct" or "the right are fear mongers and the left are liberal loons" or "the Democrats are better, and the Republicans are worse"....and so on....

Those who keep this constant fight among the people, are helping to destroy any unification of people. Perhaps, both sides could start listening to each other, but that is just a thought....

I am very disappointed in this President, but I am very concerned for his well-being. I shake my head..., as I am watching history repeat itself over again. However, I am inspired by HOPE which strengthens my FAITH that the people of the United States are starting to take action.

I agree strongly with the great points and questions that B.M. gave in these comments. This entire point of this article is futile, to me..., because..., it is EACH American's duty to WAKE-UP, and they are..., to recognize and seek TRUTH, in what most are now realizing was a bunch of lies and deceit in the past, of both the Republicans and Democrats.

Marion, please know I respect your opinion, and all the hard work you do for this nation and the world.

It is EACH American's obligation to face their own fears and create change in their own lives. That is it. I laugh and ignore at the many attempts of both political parties to spread negative hate and deception. I try to help others ignore these negative groups, because the days of the oppression in America, are coming to an end. These are my opinions, and please disregard them if you don't like them. I respect everyone's choices with this statement.

There are many of us that are trying to wake up a nation to the REALITY that BOTH the extreme right and the extreme left are still trying to hold on to a society enslaved to the illusions of the past leaderships of power and greed.

Mainstream Media is controlled by both corrupt parties. BOTH, and not just one side. I apologize, if I offended anyone, because that isn't my intent. I am just tearing up, at this point, that it seems so hopeless that this nation will ever UNITE, and it is all about LOVING each other and treating each other how we would want to be treated..., loving both the ugly and the beautiful..., because that is what we are..., of both polarities.

PEACE will never come forth from WAR, FIGHTING, or constant SUPRESSION OF ANOTHER'S OPINION WHO DIFFERS. If we disagree, for goodness sakes, we can do it respectfully, and I am sick of the word "troll" being used constantly, against those who I know work just AS HARD as activists for a better world for our children.

I see VIOLENCE all over my community, all over this nation, all over this world and sometimes in this site in awful language used against each other. The threat isn't from any "religious right"...., it is within THE PEOPLE..., themselves....

Organizing to stop the violence of the right?????? How about the thousands of other causes where children, women, men, animals, and the Earth are being slaughtered......How about organizing to get this President to withdraw ALL our troops from AFPAK?????

much love and peace to all...namaste, dar

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:29 am
Dar, in the imortal words of Congressman Barney Frank, 'what planet do you reside on'?
This violence from the far right is going to ultimately get our President killed. I'm not sure exactly why your head is in the sand about that fact. You better wake up and realize where the threat lies. In ain't the far left, whose ranks are mostly pacifists. It's those troglodytes that believe everything Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and Maulkin spew as 'fact', that are the real danger. I suppose you'll be denying it all the way up to President Biden's swearing in.

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:42 am
"We have a long horrible legacy of violence against public figures. The worst chapters in our history have been written in blood by extremists when they felled our moral and political leaders. We must act now to avert another tragedy.

Sign on to our campaign at www.StopDomesticTerror.com.

Thousands have already signed on but we can only make a change through massive collective action. Join us and help build a wall of tolerance to contain the hate."

Frank Schaeffer is the author of Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back and the forthcoming Patience With God: Faith For People Who Don't Like Religion (Or Atheism)


Follow Frank Schaeffer on Twitter: www.twitter.com/frank_schaeffer
===================================================================

Marion: BLESS YOU for doing this. You are doing a REAL PUBLIC SERVICE!
I've been off C2 for a bit, my computer is acting weird lately and I don't even know if this comment will get posted! I come here and I am OVERWHELMED:
1] By the courage of THIS MAN, Frank Schaeffer, to admit to PAST WRONGS, which can never be easy!;
2] By the COURAGE AND WONDERFUL COMMENTS by so many here, whose hearts are not only in the right place, but are beating with honesty and readiness to TAKE ACTION!;
and, finally,
3] The GREAT AND NECESSARY ability and instructions on TAKING ON THE TROLLS and minimizing their destructive tactics.
Wow, you guys are simply AMA-A-A-AAZING!

You know what, I worry about Michelle Obama, our beautiful First Lady {she whom the Far Right compares to a "gorilla"; GorillyGirl, they don't MEAN it that way of course, but that could be construed as an HONOR!}. And those two beautiful First Daughters. Anything happening to their Dad, would of course be devastating; but, those lunatics wouldn't even stop at assassinating the entire family, they are so stirred up with sheer hatred by the Right-wing Radio freaks.

I sure HOPE this campaign WORKS -- it had better! I would be PROUD to be right next to those real Christian pastors who have seen the light and seen the error and un-Christianness of the Far Right and their MIS-USE of the Gospel of the Jewish Rabbi and Reformer, Jesus.

Friday October 9, 2009, 2:36 am
I note President Obama has won the Nobel peace prize! No doubt that will infuriate the warmongering right!

Friday October 9, 2009, 2:44 am
"Recently, there has been an explosion in THREATS and ACTS of domestic terrorism. The majority of these can be traced to groups and individuals who do not accept the results of our recent election or the laws enacted or proposed by those who have been elected. They seek to undermine the democratic process through threats, intimidation, and even outright murder. They can't accept the legitimacy of the President, or a woman's legal right to make choices about her own medical care, or an immigrant's right to be treated humanely under the law, so they carry out acts that are antithetical to American democracy, American values, and both civil and human rights.

The fringe element that makes up those who commit these acts of terror is frequently exploited by a continuous wave of rightwing media ADVOCATING violence, either directly or indirectly, and by commentators amplifying the talking points of extremist religious leaders and extremist political leaders. This fringe is incited on our public airwaves, and urged to take matters into their own hands, with the underlying belief that the Bible and/or U.S. Constitution justify using ‘whatever means’ are necessary to oppose what they believe to be immoral laws.

We are taking a stand against this dangerous trend towards the INCITEMENT of lawlessness and violence. We strongly believe in the First Amendment right of free expression and discourse, even when that expression is abhorrent and not in line with our own beliefs. However, the First Amendment does not protect debate where one side includes the threat or act of violence."
===========================================
THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE. THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE. THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE.
Is that clear enough??????????
This is for those not-quite-over-the-line-as-trolls here, who want to try and CONFUSE and BLUR the issue, who yammer on, characteristically, about "Free Speech" {a Sacred Value that I hold}, who say boo-hoo, we are MERELY innocent "dissenters", we don't agree, no harm in that, don'cha see???
We are here talking about THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE. Like the MURDER of Dr. Tiller; and all the HATE-SPEECH leading up to that MURDER. And the MURDER of a Census Taker in Kentucky; hung from a tree with the word FED on his chest.
"Free Speech" was NEVER intended to cover THE THREAT OR THE ACT OF VIOLENCE. You can verbally disagree with the right to abortion or even the right to conduct a census; without resorting to violence or the type of speech that directly INCITES, ENCOURAGES, APPROVES, EGGS ON such violence.

And SHOUTING DOWN people at for example a Town Meeting, so that they can't be heard, as I have seen examples of from the Far Right even in my own community, is the very ANTITHESIS of Free Speech. Sure, it is bad when the Left or anybody else does it, too. But, just now, it is THE FAR RIGHT that is doing that. THAT IS NOT FREE SPEECH, TO USE SPEECH TO DROWN OUT AN OPPONENT'S SPEECH. Or to INTIMIDATE more civilized, decent and quiet folks, those who have an innate sense of decorum.

So all this blither-blather about "this is not allowing us {trolls and right-wingers} our innate and equal rights to disagree", is shown up as the puerile pathetic whining it really is.

1] Threats and incitements to VIOLENCE, VIOLENT ACTS UP TO AND INCLUDING OUTRIGHT MURDER, is NOT a part of Free Speech covered by the U.S. Constitution. NO government on Earth could tolerate that!
2] Outshouting opponents, ain't Free Speech neither. It is nothing but brute Force overcoming Decency. The ideology of the Far Right, "by ANY MEANS necessary, ANY means", is what CONDONES this.
3] Ad hominem attacks, attacks on PERSONS and not the ideas put forward by those persons, are always and forever against the Care2 Code of Conduct; and the Trolls whether they know it or not, AGREED NOT TO DO THAT WHEN THEY SIGNED ON TO CARE2. NEVER forget that!
As used by the Far Right, anyway, those attacks aren't Free Speech; they are LIBEL; which is ALSO not anybody's "Constitutional Right", but CRIMINAL and actionable!

This above SHOULD put those not-quite-over-the-line-as-trolls to rest forever; but of course it won't, they'll be back whining about their poor, poor selves being "suppressed" just for having "different opinions". We all know Scheiss when we see it and smell it.

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:09 am
There are just too many comments here for me to read all of them at this time, but I do want to say that here in France we enjoy freedom of speech but that does NOT include hate speech and NOBODY sees any contradiction there.

Inciting to hatred and violence IS NOT PROTECTED by the law, nor should it be ! France does not allow people wearing swastikas to go around on the street or at public events recruiting and spreading their white supremacist garbage! And perverting their children with home 'education,' that is creating generations of extremists whose minds have been so twisted that they actually and sincerely believe they are doing God's or Jesus' work.

The KKK now has 'got' religion and we saw a documentary about far-right extremism in the US last evening on TV here. Neo-nazis & KKK members were shown in their 'everyday' activities, including a KKK 'weekend retreat' for adults & their children. It's tragic and revolting to see kids who want to cancel out Africans, Latinos, African-Americans, Asians, Jews, & anyone else who isn't 'Aryan,' though they don't use that term anymore! Adults & children are constantly taught that they are in DANGER of becoming a minority - that it has already happened, in fact; that these other groups are going to 'burn' them. You can imagine that any action, however despicable, is justified when you are fighting for you life and Jesus sides with you !!!

I witnessed a scene where a 'preacher' woman had everyone in her 'church' audience cut off a lock of hair and set it on fire: she instructed them to close their eyes, smell the odor of the burning hair, and imagine it was their children burning. You can imagine how these fools and those who manipulate them will react to people of different races when they are brainwashed into believing that these groups want to destroy them and their kids!!

Kudos to Marion for this post: You cannot currently send a star to Marion because you have done so within the last week.

I have already signed this -- someone posted it from the AmericanCivilLibertiesUnion, who I believe took this important initiative. It was promoted on a post I noted, can't remember which, doesn't matter -they important thing is to sign and write to newspapers: "Since when did extreme become mainstream?"

Also sign: wecanstopthehate.org - Take the Hate Out of the Immigration Debate @ http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/

Kudos to Sir Walk F for his comment -- yes, let's be sure to spend our energies on Single-Payer!!

Friday October 9, 2009, 6:02 am
"Dar, in the imortal words of Congressman Barney Frank, 'what planet do you reside on'?
This violence from the far right is going to ultimately get our President killed. I'm not sure exactly why your head is in the sand about that fact. You better wake up and realize where the threat lies."

MJM ~ It's because Dar fought vehemently last year for Obama to lose, along with these other people here who want him gone. Of course she would say this. Dar and these others jumped on almost every lie the right wing told about Obama. They have never given him a chance. They want him to fail. When I and others pointed out the lies to them, they argued endlessly. Even after it was PROVEN these were lies, they now say there's no need for this campaign. They want him gone. They would rather have Bush back or McCain than to have a black man as president. Some of the things these people said last year were unbelievable. Oh, they're wonderful people in most areas of their lives...until you mention that our president is black and they go berzerk. Look how they come out of the woodwork in this thread.

That's why Dar and others see no reason whatsover for this campaign to stop far right violence. They WANT it to continue. They WANT something terrible to happen to Obama. They WANT riots and revolts in the USA. They don't care if lives are lost. All they know is they "want their country back."

Back to what?

What great Americans we have amongst us.

Friday October 9, 2009, 7:28 am
Barbara ~ Thank you so much for your supportive and right on comments! Indeed, those who would try to go against this campaign to stop violence in any form are clearly DEFINING THEMSELVES. Apparently, there is a considerable segment (fringers) in this country who are going through an identity crisis.

Chris B ~ YAAYYY!! Obama deserves the Nobel Prize. I am so glad the International community recognizes Obama's accomplishments. This is a good reflection on America, which we sorely need after the damaging effects of Bush.

Alba ~ Thank you for your great insight into far right extremism in this country and why this campaign is critical. When you read the poorly thought out and poor communication skills of those in this thread who see a threat to this campaign to stop violence, we realize the poor education in this country and the ignorance that is behind it. These people don't see their own hatred and bigotry that glares like a neon sign to the rest of the world. As someone mention above, they are actually proud of their ignorance.

Thank you for the link. I will be visiting there. And I agree with you and Sir Walk F that Single Payer is our best option.

Barbara, Chris and Alba ~ Your comments made my day!! Thank you, thank you!

Friday October 9, 2009, 7:34 am
The most common form od decency in any debate
is to allow & respect an opponents philosophy.
If one does not agree then a simple thank you is
all that is required instead of saying to all just ignore
him/her. One will automatically see you as a person
or party of respect if a thank you is offered up.

To put down or slander another persons viewpoint
does nothing for the goal you intend.

I've not seen that from you at all Marion.......You
seemingly patronize others to get them on your side
of the debate. However, you overflow with graciousness,
the honey coated words you've spoken of
when one does side with you or sign whatever

And, I assure you whatever it is you want signed will not
reach the eyes nor the ears of the big boys in politics.

Decency & respectfulness counts in winning no matter what it
is about.

Your motives & tactics are disgusting to say the least,
it is in fact 7th grade school yard behavior.

Plant trees ffor life.......................

Friday October 9, 2009, 7:41 am
Good news...

The Hate Crime Amendment just passed despite Republican opposition to the bill.

Friday October 9, 2009, 7:43 am
Marion your racism is showing again.

Friday October 9, 2009, 8:11 am
"Marion your racism is showing again."

Several members have commented they are intimidated by these members' comments like this. Why is NE L allowed to say these things?

Friday October 9, 2009, 8:22 am
Marion, certainly you have realized by now that the "new definition" of racism is being FOR anything that is other than white, male, and protestant (with a few white women thrown in who `know how to keep their place).

And there is a BIG difference between expressing opinions and spewing hate. Decency and respectfulness do allow for differeing opinions that are well thought out and expressed in a positive fashion.

I think some commenters are being overly sensitive, .......or are they?

Friday October 9, 2009, 8:30 am
"Why is NE L allowed to say these things?"

For the same reason you are allowed to say this:

They WANT it to continue. They WANT something terrible to happen to Obama. They WANT riots and revolts in the USA. They don't care if lives are lost. All they know is they "want their country back."


Can you say 1st amendment?

BUT....I am happy to know that you think my words are so powerful.

Friday October 9, 2009, 8:55 am
Yes NE L. We want our country back... but not at the cost of a President's life.... I don't want riots and revolts in my country.... I just want understanding.... I want it understood that it is "We the people" NOT "We the government"..... I am part Native American and I love the land... I learn from mother earth everyday... People have lost perspective.... It's the almighty dollar that drives society today... Not the blessings our Creator has given us....

For us who does not agree with Obama... we are called racist... stupid... mindless... We all have a right to speak.... doesn't matter if you agree or not...

Marion says: "Dar, in the imortal words of Congressman Barney Frank, 'what planet do you reside on'?
This violence from the far right is going to ultimately get our President killed. I'm not sure exactly why your head is in the sand about that fact. You better wake up and realize where the threat lies."

MJM ~ It's because Dar fought vehemently last year for Obama to lose, along with these other people here who want him gone. Of course she would say this. Dar and these others jumped on almost every lie the right wing told about Obama. They have never given him a chance. They want him to fail. When I and others pointed out the lies to them, they argued endlessly. Even after it was PROVEN these were lies, they now say there's no need for this campaign. They want him gone. They would rather have Bush back or McCain than to have a black man as president. Some of the things these people said last year were unbelievable. Oh, they're wonderful people in most areas of their lives...until you mention that our president is black and they go berzerk. Look how they come out of the woodwork in this thread. "

BTW Marion... Obama was carried in a white womb for 9 months... so called raised by a white grandmother.... He is part white.... So you need to stop playing the race card.....

I also voted against him.... not because of his color.... Just I didn't and don't feel a man who has only been a committee organizer is qualified to be president.....

Friday October 9, 2009, 8:56 am
I agree and you raise a good point, Nancy. I'm not surprised by the outrageous commenters who disagree with this campaign and the views of those who want to stop the violence. I think these comments are shocking to many Americans who have never seen such blatant bigotry and hatred, as well as the International community who now understands the divide in America.

I am so glad I was not raised where these views are predominant. I would probably live in fear of standing up to racism, bigotry and hatred. It is no accident that I am probably one of a few -- if not the only -- African Americans who is vocal against racism where I see it at Care2.

And contrary to the belief of some here, I don't view myself as black or white, which I am. I view myself as a human being who happened to be born in the USA. Because our society loves "labels", I call myself a liberal. But I am a combination of Liberal, Green, Independent, Democrat and Republican. Folks would be surprised to observe that I live a basically conservative lifestyle. I suspect most Americans fall under multiple labels as well.

As such, I identify more closely with the International community at large, which seems to realize we are all in this together. I believe most Americans feel this way as well. The isolated fringe group in this thread is going through an identity crisis. They have long identified with an image that is selfish, isolated and exists purely in their minds...not the world's. Yet, they expect the nation and world to adopt their view above the majority view, regardless whether that view harms others or not. Fortunately, these fringers are in the minority and represent views of 20% or less in the USA.

Overly sensitive?

My question is: why are they here opposing a campaign to make America safer?

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:00 am
"We want our country back... but not at the cost of a President's life.... I don't want riots and revolts in my country.... I just want understanding"

Thank you. We agree on something. Did you join the campaign and sign the petition to stop the violence?

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:04 am
Nobody opposes making America safer. Those are your words.

No one here has said they want any violence. Of course we don't want anything to happen to the POTUS. That would be a terrible thing for this country.

We just don't agree with you that there is any more hate coming from the right than there has been from the left. You just don't seem to be able to handle people who disagree with you and you continually play the race card when it clearly does not apply.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:09 am
"No one here has said they want any violence. Of course we don't want anything to happen to the POTUS. That would be a terrible thing for this country."

Does this mean you signed on to the campaign? Great!!

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:10 am
I am against violence.... I don't need to sign a petition to make my point....

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:14 am
If it were a campaign against violence I would but it is obviously a campaign agaisnt free speech.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:17 am
I have already signed up for this gladly. I applaud Marion for bringing this forward. I also applaud those of you who are educated enough to know how dangerous these people can be. I applaud and agree with everything BMutiny and Alba Nuova have wrote here. Some people here just don't seem to get it. They don't understand that free speech has nothing to do with hate,fear mongering or rasism or inciting violence. I can't understand why they can't seem to grasp that these things are wrong and should be stopped, unless they themselves are the haters. Why else would anyone be against trying to stop hate speech that could incites violence? This excuse they use that you can't stop hate speech and have free speech is ridicules. Or the, who decides who the haters are is also ridicules. Common sense should tell them that. Common sense sure tell them something.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:18 am
I agree with you NE L.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:27 am
Thank you, Cynthia. Of course, there is no reasoning with their argument.

They are simply...

Trolling to obstruct, disrupt and argue. No value added to thread. Rather than engage with the trolls, I encourage everyone to flag them.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:27 am
I feel people like BMutiny and Alba are playing the race card.... I feel that in these times.... race shouldn't even be a point.... We have people on the rez hungry and doing without.... Winter will be here soon and heaters along with wood is needed and we worry about little things.... my people are completely doing without.... We love mother earth and what she has to teach us....

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:28 am
Correction on my last sentence should have said - Common sense should tell them something.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:30 am
Marion... who you flagging???? People who disagree with you????

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:33 am
Just like the Republican's being shut out of the heath care debates.... Is that right????

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:35 am
Woo hoo I LOVE it when I become the personal target for trolls! I can TAKE it, as I have for a LONG time here on Care2; and other people who might otherwise either be unconsciously somewhat intimidated, or perhaps haven't encountered trolls before, get to SEE just how idiotic an idiot can be! And, they LEARN how to deal with trolls, by IGNORING and by FLAGGING {as Care2 gives us the power to do!}. When trolls are FLAGGED, then Care2 staff takes care of them {by ELIMINATING them}. You can FLAG their comments; and then go on and FLAG their profiles on their profile page! {Lower right-hand corner.}
This is info for those NEW people who are always coming onto Care2; because Care2 with all its faults, is BETTER than any other venue I know, for dealing with IDIOTIC TROLL COMMENTS.......
So, the trolls inadvertently serve as an OBJECT LESSON FOR ALL...... Yes, flagging them is somewhat of a nuisance, but SOMEBODY has to do it!..... it is called "Community Watch". Democracy In Action.......!

As I stated, ad hominem {personal} attacks are against the Care2 Code of Conduct {CoC}; which is down at the bottom of every page {I guess under "terms of service"}; when Care2 gets your message they will ELIMINATE the person's profile; but, yawn, they always come back under more fake profiles, so have to be dealt with AGAIN..... EACH TIME THEY ATTACK, under whatever fake name, they are breaking Care2's Code of Conduct {CoC} and Terms of Service {ToS}......

A bit trickier, are those that don't quite cross the line of actual trolldom..... However, their so-called "arguments" are not difficult to see thru and to put down......

One more piece of advice, is, you NEVER, NEVER, NEVER EVER descend to a troll's level.... name calling, personal attacks, dirty language, etc. If you do, THE TROLL HAS GOT JUST WHAT THEY WANTED. The purpose of the troll, is NOT to convince you with "arguments".... obviously! Their purpose here, is, to cause dissension among our ranks, get us fighting each other rather than against the Far Right hate-mongers!

I'm pretty certain that some if not all trolls, are actually AGENTS sent among us, to try to LIMIT Care2's effectiveness as a promulgator of Social Change..... that they have backing, including Financial. {Obviously individuals having few or no job skills or communication skills otherwise!} In the past, Care2 members have actually found WEBSITES where such idiots were recruited and told what to say..... those Websites subsequently being HIDDEN from us again.
In other words {not mentioned in the otherwise-good linked article on trolls}, these are not MERELY idiots with some sort of "personality disorder" that makes them act in a "hurtful" way. They are A PRIME EXAMPLE OF EXACTLY WHAT IT IS WE ON CARE2, AND THE WRITER MENTIONED AT THE START OF THIS THREAD, ARE FIGHTING AGAINST......

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:39 am
The hypocrisy is astounding isn't it Scarlette?

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:40 am
Marion... who you flagging???? People who disagree with you????

You got it.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:42 am
Why am I responding to this commplete nonsence, frankly Scarlett... LOL.... MJM... Learn to spell... I really don't care weather you agree or not.... Don't be sexist MJM.... I spend no time up anyones butt.... Maybe you should start thinking for yourself and not for Marion.... LOL

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:53 am
And a hearty congratulations to OUR president, that's right, YOUR president and mine, Barack Hussein Obama for winning the Nobel Peace Prize...... A hearty and well deserved slap in the face of every Fox news and Limbaugh fan. I can just imagine Limbaugh's face turning beet red and the froth coming out of his mouth as animal control tranquilizes and cages him.

CONGRATULATIONS PRESIDENT OBAMA! HAIL TO THE CHIEF!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/09/nobel.peace.prize/index.html

Friday October 9, 2009, 10:01 am
That's right, Thomas. CONGRATULATIONS TO PRESIDENT OBAMA!!! And Congratulations to the USA for having such an OUTSTANDING leader!! He represents the BEST of what this country is about: Humanitarian, Progress, Education, Science, Achievement, Democracy and so much more.

The Nobel Committee said he won it for "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between peoples". The committee highlighted Mr Obama's efforts to support international bodies and promote nuclear disarmament.

Of course, Limbaugh isn't taking this well at all. But who cares what Limbaugh thinks? He gets paid millions to put Obama down to the village idiots who eat crumbs and wonder where their next meal will come from. We're just happy and grateful that the image and respect of the USA is being raised.

Friday October 9, 2009, 10:03 am
LOL... Thomas.... calm down.... what peace has obama brought?????... It's a joke... He just hasn't got it yet... LOL and please don't tell me he is my president.... You can't force him on me

Friday October 9, 2009, 10:08 am
CONGRATULATIONS PRESIDENT OBAMA! HAIL TO THE CHIEF!

Friday October 9, 2009, 10:20 am
If it comes down to spelling skills vs comprehension skills, I'll choose the latter. I see Miss O'Hara is only concerned with the former.

Friday October 9, 2009, 10:21 am
Yes, MJM...

CONGRATULATIONS PRESIDENT OBAMA! HAIL TO THE CHIEF!

Friday October 9, 2009, 10:27 am
There are trolls and there are trolls..... the EASIEST ones to deal with, are the ones who merely spew drivel, use obscene and swear words, and are obviously out of their minds..... just CANCEL 'em, that's all! Until they come ba-a-a-aaack!

The ones who back the Right Wing, however indirectly and with attempted "subtlety", are a different matter. They nominally do observe Care2's Code of Conduct.... they have learned that they had better!!! If they DO cross the line into personal attacks, they are OUT OF LINE like the others. Care2 standard is, to deal with a person's IDEAS and not attack the person.

However, there are these quasi-trolls, not as identifiable to everyone as the OBVIOUS trolls are, who add NOTHING to the discussion, and try to divert it into different channels. Sure, they have a nominal "right" to their Free Speech; but, why are they doing that HERE, interrupting a serious discussion going on? Are they trying to get you NOT to sign the petition? Do they have a stake in DEFENDING Hate Speech of the Right Wing? Do they actually have the gall to say that the Far Right does NOT INDULGE in Violence-Inciting Hate Speech? If so, they are LYING, LYING, LYING..... and we ALL know that!!!

We are NOT REQUIRED TO LISTEN to nonsense! Let 'em have their Free Speech ELSEWHERE!

Other nonsense diversions they use: Violence-Inciting Hate Speech by the Far Right is "ok" because the Left indulges in it, because others engage in it or have in the past, because "everybody" engages in it, because "there is no difference between the Right and the Left" or "there IS no such thing as the Far Right".....

These are propaganda and DIS-information attempts to "subtly" CONFUSE people and muddy the waters of discussion by attempting to hijack and to sidetrack the thread. These are EXACTLY THE TACTICS recommended by those Websites where the Agents of the Far Right go to get their marching orders.... I can't of course PROVE this is a "Far Right Conspiracy". They may not ALL be being PAID for this; some may be doing it out of mis-placed "patriotism" or "religiosity". But the RESULT is just the same.....

People should know that there is a long HISTORY of Far Right-Wing efforts to DIS-inform, both on and off the Internet; and a long HISTORY of that on Care2, also. {I should know!} OF COURSE the Far Right Wing is NOT going to IGNORE such a powerful tool as the Internet; and Care2!!! We have been spotted on their radar; and must always know that we are forever being targetted by their non-stop never-never-ending PROPAGANDA.

One KEY to identifying the concerted, organized Far Right effort is, their claim that ANYONE "Black" or "African-American", from Obama to Marion!, is "playing the Race Card"....... In this way, the Far Right has learned to STIR UP RACIAL FEARS in white people, of "revenge" for past mis-treatment..... which is ABSURD, of course, but these fears are mainly unconscious, which is why that tactic of theirs has some effectiveness among their followers.......

How to deal with this Far Right presence, disguised or not-so-disguised, on this discussion thread? I think the correct thing is being done, DON'T LET THEM HIJACK THE THREAD AND DIVERT IT INTO OTHER CHANNELS.
Remember, this thread STARTED OUT by this FORMERLY FAR-RIGHT PASTOR seeing the ERROR OF HIS WAYS; and URGING US ALL to BEWARE THE FAR RIGHT HATE-SPEWERS AND VIOLENCE INCITERS. THAT is the subject that this thread is all about!

Friday October 9, 2009, 10:40 am
BMutiny, your astute observations rival Marions' own.

Friday October 9, 2009, 10:42 am
Barbara ~ You are my HERO and I am proud to be your friend!!! I encourage everyone to read your post again and again for comprehension because it is quite an education and teaching tool to pass on to others. We will encounter these trolls again and again. Barbara outlines how to deal with trolls and recognize them.

KUDOS to you, Barbara!!!

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:05 am
LMFAO.......I am proud to be called Ms. O'Hara

However, there are these quasi-trolls, not as identifiable to everyone as the OBVIOUS trolls are, who add NOTHING to the discussion, and try to divert it into different channels. Sure, they have a nominal "right" to their Free Speech; but, why are they doing that HERE, interrupting a serious discussion going on? Are they trying to get you NOT to sign the petition? Do they have a stake in DEFENDING Hate Speech of the Right Wing? Do they actually have the gall to say that the Far Right does NOT INDULGE in Violence-Inciting Hate Speech? If so, they are LYING, LYING, LYING..... and we ALL know that!!!

Why are you afraid of freedom of speech????? You can sign whatever you want.... I have the right to say what I want and it is not lies....

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:11 am
Boy, are you being played.

Obama is just as much a sock puppet as Bush was.

If he gets assasinated it is an excuse to bring in foreign troops.

The NWO put a man in place who refuses to show the evidence that he is even eligible to be Senator...let alone Prez.

It's like none of you ever heard of FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS.

They just gave him a NOBEL PEACE PRIZE for continuing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
They gave one to Al Gore to...for another scam.

The dollar is going down and the BIGGEST DEPRESSION EVER is about to hit you.

They WANT YOU TO FIGHT EACH OTHER....they certainly don't want you uniting against them.

Peacefully demonstrate against what is happening and get teargassed while the police run hooded men in black do violence to discredit you.

Go get your vaccinations and watch your "carbon footprint" while you look for Violent Rightwing Fundamentalists under the bed!

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:12 am
You cannot currently send a star to BMutiny because you have done so within the last week.

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:15 am
Barack Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize

In a surprise move, the Nobel Peace Prize was given to Barack Obama, making him only the third sitting American president to win the prize. The award was given for “his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples.” The committee particularly noted his efforts to reduce the world’s nuclear arsenal.

While often the award is given for past achievements, this award was given as a recognition that ideas matter, and in order to further promote Obama’s views on international relations. The award is also seen as recognition of the significant change in direction for the United States with the replacement of George Bush and Dick Cheney with Barack Obama.

It is remarkable for Obama to have won the award so early in his presidency. Two previous sitting presidents, Theodore Roosevelt in 1906 and Woodrow Wilson in 1919, have won the award. In addition, Jimmy Carter won the award following his term in office in 2002 and former Vice President Al Gore won the award in 2007.

Obama first heard about winning the award in a wake up call from press secretary Robert Gibbs, who had learned about this from members of the media. The news has been received by considerable world praise. It was also greeted by opposition by some with valid concerns, and with outrage by those who oppose American values including Hamas, the Taliban, and many American conservatives. This award not only represents a repudiation of conservative views, but is contrary to their goals.

Following is the statement of the committee on the announcement of the award:

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama’s vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama’s initiative, the United States is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world’s attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world’s population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world’s leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama’s appeal that “now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges.”

--------------

The efforts of Frank Schaeffer and those of us signing on to this campaign go hand in hand with Obama's peacekeeping mission to reach out to the world and extend a hand toward cooperation and peace.

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:15 am
WOW Judy Paranoid much?

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:20 am
You are right Judy.... Nobel Peace Prize for Obama... That's a joke what has he done but tucked tail... Just like Clinton did....

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:24 am
Part of a larger comment by Roger Ebert

There have always been nuts. Remember when the John Birch society thought Kennedy was a communist? In those innocent days most of the American people were reasonable. They’d shake their heads in wonder at such a weird notion. Kennedy might be one of those liberals, but he wasn’t a commie. And when people said Johnson murdered Kennedy? Also ridiculous. But slowly, ominously, things began to change. After his death, it was said that Edward Kennedy was a Soviet agent. These theories have rabid subscribers.

Obama is a Muslim. Obama was born in Kenya. Obama was a terrorist. Obama will destroy Medicare. Obama will kill your grandmother. Obama is a racist. Obama wants atheism taught in the schools. Obama wants us to pay for the health care of illegal immigrants.

These beliefs are held by various segments of our population. They are absurd. Any intelligent person can see they are absurd. It is not my purpose here to debate them, because such debates are futile. With the zealous True Believers there is no debating. They feed upon loops within loops of paranoid surmises, inventions which are passed along as fact. Sometimes those citing them don’t even seem to care if you believe them. Sometimes they may not believe them themselves. The purpose is to fan irrational hatred against our president.

What are we to make of the recent suggestion on the “respected” right-wing site NewsMax, later withdrawn, that “it might not be such a bad thing” if the U. S. military rose up and overthrew Obama in a coup? That sort of talk belongs on a password-protected neo-Nazi or Klan site, not in a place where ostensibly intelligent people look for information. Where were the editors? What did they think? If they’re “conservatives,” do they support the overthrow of our government by a coup?

I don’t really think so. But I believe they will stoop to almost anything to fan the flames of their cause. And they have created a timidity in the mainstream Republican party, afraid to alienate a “base” it should be ashamed of. When Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act, he is said to have observed that with one signature he had lost his Democrats the South. It took moral courage to sign that bill. He did indeed lose the Southern racists, who were to its shame embraced by the GOP – a poisoned pill, it is becoming obvious.

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:25 am
Good job Mr President and the Nobel Peace Prize,'from the whale killers! I'm almost of a mind to put on my uniform and whip up a smart naval salute whilst playing the US National Anthem! How about taking on the job of British Prime Minister as well? We will have a vacancy shortly and there are no suitable contenders from the left, right or centre! Probably be disqualified in the UK for having too much British ancestry! You May have noticed most of our leaders including the opposition are not English! The English don't even have home rule! Well that's taken it way off track. In Norway where they have real Trolls that inhabit the woods and come in all shapes and sizes many are benign and a few are malevolant QED. I am getting somewhat confused by this thread as I would not have thought any one with right wing leanings would not want to take part in a discussion aimed at inhibiting the more lunatic elements of the right because by doing so one assumes they either acknowledge their existance or even offer them succour! However if they are opposed to the extreme elements on the right then I would have expected them to state their case accordingly or remain observers! As to propagating violence via these noisy TV commentators I am fortunate in only having access to quality broadcast output with excellent reportage and minimal bias and when the election party politicals come on I can switch them off or go make a nice cup of tea! It's sometimes good to self censor! I also wonder if someone has cloned Dr Goebbals with some of the hateful propaganda that does perculate the airwaves, even in my cloistered environment! Certainly Herr Hitler propagated violence against Jews, Blacks, Gays, Disabled and any others that did not conform to his idea of world order, Krystallnacht for example was primarily carried out by the thick empty headed thugs he surrounded himself with at the start of his political career, sort of German rednecks and later of course he had rednecks from UK, France Hungary and many other countries of Europe at his beck and call with special national SS Units bearing insignia of the nations they were drawn from so there are always those from every country that will throw in their lot with thuggery and it is these sort of aimless idiots that are likely to be influenced by the mad ramblings of the noxious elements of the media. Already predisposed to violent activities like hunting animals and similar abuses they are easy prey for the lunatic fringe and their cohorts and a good reason for introducing TNS to the feral human population never mind "Terrorist" cats!

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:28 am
Wow, it's funny that the so-called conservatives on here think threatening the President's life is 'free speech'.

But, i guess i shouldnt be surprised. These are the same people who believed everything bush said and now pretend they never supported him.

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:30 am
How very will put Marion.

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:31 am
LOL... Robert Gibbs.... He is another one of Obama's puppets.... He is joke in the white house..... Let's get serious now!!!!!

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:43 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Judy because you have done so within the last week.

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:50 am
egads Marion and MJM, what a compliment to your power to be slammed so profusely by the rightie calvary that came in to back up NE L. They do that on other sites too, I won't mention any names of which sites, but James will back up Steve, and Steve backs up James, it's nauseating BECAUSE IT's CONTRIVED and not genuine. That's the difference between a Troll's argument and an honest to goodness dissenter, it has to do with being honest and speaking the truth from your heart, not spouting talking points to disrupt a GENUINE conversation. I'll debate all day with someone who is being honest in their beliefs, but the disingenuous feigned outrage, I'll pass.

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:02 pm
Well people. I'll leave you to your back and forth on who is more hateful than who. I am going on VACATION!!!

We are leaving early in the morning and will return on the 19th.

If my laptop is repaired today I will keep in touch. Have a great week, I know you all will miss me.

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:08 pm
Scalett,NE,Mark G,Judy and last but certainly not least the beautiful Dar:)
A gazillion green stars to you all.
All great points on this petition is not about ending violence,but about ending Free Speech.
If it was truly geared to ending violence it would base it's list of points being made to inculde the whole spetrum of supposed "Hate Speech" that is being made in this country.Not just trying to silence one side.
That is the real difference.
During Bush's years there were tons of threats on his life.
Zack De la Roacha from "Rage Aginst the Machine" (one of my favorite bands by the way) at a concert told the audience that someone needed to "Shot Bush in the head."

During the whole Carrie Preajan fiasco ,Alan Duncan is a Member of Parliament in Great Britain said this about the Conservative Miss California...
“If you read that Miss California is murdered,you will know it was me.”
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/uk-member-of-parliament-says-he-may-kill-miss-california-kills-career-instead

Just a couple of examples of "Hate Speech" against Conservatives.
The demands also in the petition if full filled can and would be used to stop any type of speech that disagrees with the Left.
The real problem that people do not seem to acknowledge is that if this petition actually comes to pass,is what will happen to their own freedom of speech if the Right once again takes control of the government.
Just as Bush's "patriot Act" called anyone who disagreed with the war the same as the Terrorist that attacked us,Obama is now using the Patriot Act for his purposes as well.
It is not something that he or his adminstration has decided to do away with as they promised during the campaign.Now Conservatives are kicking their selves in the rear about it.
Whether we agree or disagree with others we can not fall prey to political jocking that will at any given point take the freedoms of ANY person or group.
As long as people have the right to run around and say whatever they want,even if it is hateful.
Then we still retain our rights to fight such things.
This is not about which side is Right or wrong.
This is simply about our freedoms.
And those freedoms are what we need to protect.
Green stars peeps:)

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:14 pm
stop being a jerk MJM

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:14 pm
"These beliefs are held by various segments of our population. They are absurd. Any intelligent person can see they are absurd. It is not my purpose here to debate them, because such debates are futile. With the zealous True Believers there is no debating. They feed upon loops within loops of paranoid surmises, inventions which are passed along as fact. Sometimes those citing them don’t even seem to care if you believe them. Sometimes they may not believe them themselves. The purpose is to fan irrational hatred against our president. "

Robert ~ Thanks for posting this EXCELLENT article by Roget Ebert! Yes, the right wing will "stoop to anything" for their cause...ANYTHING! All the more reason why this campaign to end violence is so important.


Chris B ~ Forgive us here in the USA. It was embarrassing enough we had a sadistic nitwit for a leader these past 8 years whose father paid the university to push him through for an education he drank through. Bush left behind devastation in his wake, including these lunatic fringers who wish he were still president who continue to embarrass this nation. I hope you know they represent less than 20% of the population. I'm surprised it's not more since we have a 40% illiteracy rate below a 4th grade education level, which can clearly be seen in this thread.


Sir Walk F said: "These are the same people who believed everything bush said and now pretend they never supported him. "

Yes, but...they are unconsciously repeating Bush's message...and that message is not lost on the rest of us. We remember and we will never forget how they dropped this country to its knees...and took the world down with them.


If I have forgotten a supportive message from any of you, please know I am GRATEFUL to you for your COURAGE, WISDOM and EFFORTS to stand against the opposing forces and do the right thing for our country. This is our home and our relationship with our neighbors overseas (and next door) is critical to our survival on this planet. I would be honored to live next door to any of you, my friends!

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:18 pm
MJM ~ Great minds...

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:33 pm
Pretending that Obama isn't being run by the same crew bankrupting your country will get you nowhere. except perhaps the label "apparachik".

Bush was put in place for you to hate and Obama to love. It is pure theater. AIPAC is still calling the shots as they pretend Iran is interested in a bomb. Nancy Pelosi has a personal fortune of half a billion and Al Gore threw the election (remember how he treated the Black Caucus when they begged him not to concede?) and then went on to collect a fortune of $100 million pushing global warrming.

The Masters of the Federal Reserve and Secretaries of the Treasury have come from Goldman Sachs which Gore is related to by marriage.....BUT ITS ALL COINCIDENCE!

Gangsters have been in charge of the US government for a very long time.

Your enemy IS your government...no matter who is in power.

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:37 pm
"it's nauseating BECAUSE IT's CONTRIVED and not genuine. That's the difference between a Troll's argument and an honest to goodness dissenter, it has to do with being honest and speaking the truth from your heart, not spouting talking points to disrupt a GENUINE conversation. I'll debate all day with someone who is being honest in their beliefs, but the disingenuous feigned outrage, I'll pass."

Dragonfly Kid ~ BRAVO!! You make too much sense! It's why most of us see the feigned tears of Glenn Beck, whereas his supporters feel sorry for him. Little do they know he cries hoping his base doesn't catch on to his lies, and he really cries for fear of losing his hefty payroll. And this is the man who called Obama "a racist!"

For the record, me and MJM owe a debt of gratitude to ALL of you who support this campaign and have left OUTSTANDING comments and wisdom. I am overwhelmed by the courage and hearts I have seen here in the past two days. I am even grateful to the trolls, quasi-trolls and wannabe trolls because had they not voiced opposition, we would not have seen first hand the ignorance, bigotry and hatred that exists in the USA and is represented by a small group at Care2.

MJM ~ In no way does this lessen my GRATITUDE to you, my friend!

As another dear friend, Serge, said above that begs repeating...

"It is the spiritual truth and awakening happening RIGHT NOW, ALL ways bringing all this negativity, abuse of power, etc. to the surface to be cleansed , transmuted and healed. It would almost be comical except for the folks who are "suffering"and in pain because of it, my heart goes out to them as they take the NECCESSARY steps in finding out who they REALLY are.

As hard as it is to believe for some, these right wing folks serve the divine plan in the"end". WE create OUR own REALities, every minute of every hour , everyday, CONCIOUSly or UNconsciously.


Happiness is a decision, not an experience. Love is not a reaction, LOVE IS a decision. YOU CAN love ANYONE you choose, including Y-OURself, all THE TIME AND allWAYS.:):):)"


Yes, Serge...and the Universe is unfolding as it should...

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:49 pm
This I find quite disturbing along with the lack of attention from the media....

http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/1271483

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:51 pm
sorry, I though it would show up as a link....it's my share

Friday October 9, 2009, 12:56 pm
http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/1271483

Thank you, BigCatRescue! This is EXACTLY why Frank Schaeffer started this campaign against violence and why many of us here have signed on. The trolls in this thread would like to brainwash us into thinking this terrorism does not exist. It does and its running rampant throughout the USA in pockets.

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:00 pm
"LOL and please don't tell me he is my president.... You can't force him on me "

Yes we can! The voters shoved him right down your throat and up yer heiny!

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:01 pm
Dragonfly Kid, are you DARING to SUGGEST there may be a "Right-Wing Conspiracy" when you say these nutjobs "back each other up", that there's a "rightie cavalry"??? ;-]
{"Calvary" is Jesus on the Cross; "Cavalry" is a word that comes from Norman-French "cheval", meaning "horse", I'm sure that's what you meant! "Here comes the U.S. CAVALRY....!" Easy to confuse......!} ;-]
Hmmmn, I've long "suspected" they have their own "network"..... "talking points", Uh Huh. Well, enuf of that!

Yes, in Germany, the Hatred aroused in ordinary Germans against the Jews, Gays, Slavs, Gypsies, Disabled, and others, was preceded by YEARS of Speech and Rhetoric: these targetted groups were "Untermenschen" {Sub-humans not worthy of human consideration}; "Useless Eaters", "Vermin" {accompanied by pictures of swarming rats}, "Christ-Killers", etc. etc. When violence really DID come about, the years of unopposed Reviling speech had had a PARALYZING effect and by that time, nobody was ready to RESIST. Mass Violence actually HAPPENED, as it was encouraged and prepared for {by the Right}; and by the time it DID HAPPEN, by then it was TOO LATE.

Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda, and all his studious helpers, actually KNEW what they were about; they KNEW their business well, basing their rabid spewings not on "random choices", but rather on the latest research in Psychology and how to sway under-educated semi-literate masses by means of emotion......

Similarly, in Rwanda, the massacre of the Tutsis by the Hutus, was instigated by rabid speeches nonstop on the radio for MONTHS, Hutu spokespeople calling the other racial/tribal group "cockroaches" and similarly routinely degrading them and denying them humanity. {As is shown for example in the film, "Hotel Rwanda", an account BASED ON AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND THE TRUTH.}

Yes, this proves that HATE SPEECH DOES INDEED HAVE CONSEQUENCES. AND, that it MUST be stopped BEFORE those consequences start coming about! In the case of the Far-Right talk-show Violence-Inciting Hate Speech, there have ALREADY BEEN SEVERAL incidents of violence, including MURDER; for example, violence and threats against Abortion Providers, including MURDER of Dr. Tiller as merely the most recent of the incidents.

Make no mistake: those here on this thread, as well as those on the Far Right who want INCITEMENT TO MURDER TO BE COUNTED AS "FREE SPEECH", are PERFECTLY WILLING, HAPPY IN FACT, TO SUPPORT LETHAL VIOLENCE IN FURTHERANCE OF THEIR "CAUSES".
Actually, how does it figure that they belong on Care2 at all?????? In their SUPPORT OF TALK RADIO THAT SUPPORTS, AND ACTUALLY INSTIGATES ACTUAL INSTANCES OF, LETHAL VIOLENCE AGAINST TARGETTED GROUPS???
{Those "Targetted Groups" including anybody to the Left of Rush Limbaugh; anybody FOR organizing for Human Rights and Justice for All.}

Those supporting and defending Violence-Inciting Hate Speech {or "supporting and defending" it, by trying to make the case that "IT DOES NOT EXIST!" when that is a plain obvious NON-FACTUAL LIE!}, they would actually LOVE to see the United States of America writhing in the CHAOS of Kristallnacht and Rwanda during its massacres.

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:02 pm
LOL... doesn't that violate my constitution... No... he is not my president... I did not vote for him

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:09 pm
Marion... why do you and Obama feel you have to keep apologizing for America? If you two don't like here... you and anyone else can leave... The door is open...I am sick of all these so called american who whine about what America has done... Like I said... the door is open... you are free to move out...

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:11 pm
I see so much of ignorance in the world but nothing beats this one here....maybe the Obama haters are jealous... Its disgusting to see how they can say anything but good things about a man like him who has made history and is recognised in the world even at a Noble peace prize winner..... thanks for the petition Marion

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:13 pm
And we're sick of having to apologize for the likes of you. We're staying, and we'd like to have good reason to be proud of our country for a change, after the last 8 miserable years. Voting Barack Obama as OUR PRESIDENT was a good first step.

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:15 pm
Way to go, Thomas. I wanted to say that so bad.

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:17 pm
FANTASTIC THOMAS GOOD GOING THERE!!!!!

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:20 pm
I thought these posts are to debate,,,NOT to sit here and bash each one on their particular beieifs...OMG...Maybe if you took a little from the right and a little from the left you could have something perfect then maybe just maybe you all would quit all this fussin going on in here. There is not one of you here that is 100% correct nor 100% wrong...So why can you just listen to what each other says and comback with a POLITE RESPONSE TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND!!!!! Geeeeeezzzzzzzzzz

Gorilly

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:20 pm
"the latest research in Psychology and how to sway under-educated semi-literate masses by means of emotion...... "

Together with a lack of jobs, loss of homes and a collapsed economy, these people are at a fever pitch and ready to blame anyone as declared by the loudest voices. Even if we HAD jobs to offer in the USA, most of the 40% illiterates in this nation could not qualify for a job where most require reading, writing, comprehension and computing skills. Rather than pick themselves up, get the skills necessary, they resort to scorched earth tactics per their talking heads - Beck and Limbaugh. This is the ultimate in ignorance and laziness. Comments like this illustrate this point well...

"LOL... doesn't that violate my constitution... No... he is not my president... I did not vote for him "


Oh what fools these mortals be...

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:24 pm
LOL Thomas... please don't apologize for me... I have nothing to apologize to "likes of you"....I am also staying and I am proud of my country.... First amendment...

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:26 pm
I concurr.......There are no locked doors wherever you are.

And.......You have the freedom to leave and clone another place after
your own ideals & wasted political self serving philosophies.

Plant trees for life.......

My words, thoughts and opinions are gauranteed by the U.S. Constitution

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:28 pm
"The door is open...I am sick of all these so called american who whine about what America has done... Like I said... the door is open... you are free to move out..."

Have you forgotten? Obama IS the President of the United States of America. He is MY president. Since he is not YOUR president, the door is ready for YOU to leave. I have served over 20 years as a military vet, taught students computing skills and to get jobs on a college level and done extensive volunteer work in the community. I love this country, have fought for it -- including your right to act STUPID, served the citizens and have served the most idiotic president of all time in this nation. I am EXTREMELY grateful to have now a leader who represents the humanity, intelligence and views of most Americans. I'm not going anywhere.

What have YOU done for your country? Since you don't seem to like America, what country will you move to with your bigoted views?

Get a recorder and listen to yourself sometime...

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:30 pm
Marion, I am not under-educated just because I did not vote for Obama.... In other words... like all demos... if i don't agree with you... I am under educated... racists...

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:34 pm
Well I can sure admit that I am under-educated when it comes to anything political...LOL This all confuses me...now I know why.

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:34 pm
"I see so much of ignorance in the world but nothing beats this one here....maybe the Obama haters are jealous... Its disgusting to see how they can say anything but good things about a man like him who has made history and is recognised in the world even at a Noble peace prize winner..... thanks for the petition Marion"

Thanks for signing, Yvonne. Yes, it is disgusting. It's also embarrassing for our foreign friends like you see the racism, bigotry and hatred that eats away at a group of people here in this nation and in this thread who have no idea who they really area.

Yet, the louder they get the more I realize Obama is getting his agenda through and angering them more. These people are small minded bullies and sore losers. As for the rest of us, we're HAPPY and THRILLED Bush is gone and we have a REAL leader!!!

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:35 pm
Marion... I am a "First" American.... my people were here first.... I will not leave my mother land.... LMAO.... Like I said... Just because I didn't vote for Obama... I am now stupid???? I have done more for the mother earth then you will ever know....

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:36 pm
I hear you, Marion. That peticular comment was quite disturbing. 'he is not my president'. That must have been a foreignor that said that. If not, they should take a refresher course in Civics. Are they still teaching that in school? Some of these comments would point to no.

Isn't that the battle cry of these anarchists that would have the President dead?

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:38 pm
Marion someday you will have to explain all this to me so I can understand...

Not one person here Yvonne is ignorant no one.

Big Gorilly Hugs

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:39 pm
"Living in Japan as I do, I'm insulated from much of this insanity, which I regard as every bit as dangerous as you do, and much worse than the McCarthyism that I remember from the 1950s with its spillover into the early 1960s with HUAC and loyalty oaths. I support your efforts, and will join you in them as I can. Right now, there's no way I'd move back there."

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:42 pm
Gorilly Girl ~ At some point, we are ALL ignorant of something...

Ignorant:
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:45 pm
No Yvonne no one here is ignorant.... big gorilly hugs to you too....

MJM... I am more American here than anyone.... i am Cherokee and this is my mother land.... LOL... Battle cry.... words from a yankee... LOL

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:47 pm
Marion, it is so disheartening that they don't get the point.

Whether I liked it or not, George W. Bush was my President. I didn't vote for him either time, but in 2000, we all gave him a chance. We felt we could express our opinions, but I for one never wanted him dead. There may have been extreme opposition to him, but it was never expressed in a hateful manner intended to incite violence.

Now we have a new President. This one I did vote for. And he is my President just as all the others have been,. WHY? Because I am an American citizen. And I am free to express opinions about those Presidents. I am free to agree and disagree with them and to express those agreements and disagreements.

Some are making this out a conservative versus democrat or whatever. And they MISS THE POINT. And they apparently think that this is about silencing their views. It isn't. They don't have to like President Obama, They don't have to agree with president Obama; they are free to express dislike of anything Obama does. And I am sure that you , Marion, would not be flagging them if that is what they did.

All they have to do is STOP the inciteful hateful speech calling for murder of the President and various other politicians, and various ethnic groups. IT IS SO SIMPLE.

So, your question above is valid: "why are they here opposing a campaign to make America safer? "

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:49 pm
'he is not my president"

MJM ~ This is ASTOUNDING news to hear. Here's a comment from another site that reflects my thoughts on this:

"President Barack Obama is the President of the United States and that includes ALL of its citizens. To say otherwise is to disrespect the votes of your fellow American citizens and the democratic nature of your country, itself.

When Bush was President, I vociferously railed against him. I despised Bush and all his policies. (Turns out I was dead-on right, too!) But I NEVER ONCE said, "He's not my President." He was my President, and that made most of his bumbles even more embarrassing to me. But I suffered through it, knowing that the American people felt the same way I did and that I had a process to make sure that he couldn't repeat his mistakes. i said things like, 'Yeah, he's my President. Sorry about that." and "Yeah, I know he's an idiot, but he's still President." But I never said, "He's not MY President," because I knew that would dishonor my country.

Only two people in the United States can rightly say, "He's not my President," about President Obama:

One's an illegal alien ... and the other one's a traitor!

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:50 pm
This is kinda obvious..... when some individual, AS an individual, whether a "celebrity" or a non-celebrity, whether in "public" or in private, says "Assassinate Bush" or "Kill Kennedy" or some other stupid, thoughtless statement of that nature, that is ONE thing. We can let it pass.

However, when a MAJOR RADIO NETWORK, OR RADIO NETWORKS, whether in Germany, in Rwanda, or in the United States, promulgates such HATE SPEECH DAY AFTER DAY, WEEK AFTER WEEK, MONTH AFTER MONTH, YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR; THEN, that SHOULD be looked into. We need to look at the ADVERTISERS, THE SPONSORS, THE OWNERS OF THE NETWORKS; and see what their REAL AGENDAS are. Repeat, their REAL AGENDAS.

I believe that the REAL AGENDAS of these Radio Talkers are, among other things:
to MURDER OUTSPOKEN INDIVIDUALS {by PROXY; and be able then to say, Oh, my goodness gracious me, I didn't MEAN to be taken so literally!};
to INTIMIDATE INTO SILENCE any opposition, by ENCOURAGING SUCH MURDERS AND SUCH THREATS OF VIOLENCE;
to CREATE A STATE OF CONSTANT PUBLIC CHAOS, OF CONSTANT FEAR;

and, finally, to OVERTHROW OUR DEMOCRACY --
the final purpose being, so that their real masters, the MEGA-CORPORATIONS, will have full sway to DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THE WORLD'S RESOURCES, ENVIRONMENT AND THE WORLD'S PEOPLES.

FASCISM is the UNITING of BIG BUSINESS AND THE {ARMED AND TOTALITARIAN} STATE. LOOK IT UP, folks!

FORTUNATELY, thank goodness for our climate of Freedom, our opportunities for Education and Self-education that are at least AVAILABLE, our REAL FREEDOM OF SPEECH that we are EXERCISING HERE AND NOW:

NOT ALL BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE EVIL. NOT ALL MILITARY ARE EVIL. NOT ALL MINISTERS OF THE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL ARE EVIL OR MIS-LED. NOT ALL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO BE MIS-LED INTO FASCISM BY TALK SHOW HOSTS HOWEVER PERSISTENT AND OBNOXIOUS AND PLAYING ON SUB-CONSCIOUS EMOTIONS.

This is why we must UNITE, as we are doing HERE AND NOW, AGAINST these Disturbers of the Peace, and of Civilized Society. They are no more than CRIMINALS. We don't "unite" peaceful good people and RAPISTS, for example!

This is NOT your traditional "Right vs. Left" controversy.
It is REALLY MIS-LEADING to "frame" it as if it were that!!!
It has ALREADY been pointed out over & over, here & elsewhere, that DECENT Republicans are REPUDIATING these Hate-Spewing Radicals who have it seems, TAKEN OVER the remains of the Republican Party from those decent people who used to be there! {And the Republicans are much to blame for allowing this to happen.}

We use the terminology "Right-Wing", because that is traditional; if you don't want to use that terminology, fine. Just say "FASCIST", then. Whatever it is, it is ANTI-HUMAN. Back to the Stone Age; and maybe our Stone Age ancestors were actually more enlightened in some ways!

The Left has done & said some bad things too, of course. But, right now anyway, they just don't have the POWER, the POWER to reach a MASS AUDIENCE, the POWER OF ENORMOUS WEALTH BACKING THEM UP. {Maybe the advertisers leaving Hate-Spewing Radio Hosts won't make THAT much of a difference! However, it DOES show the way Public Opinion is going; so it is a good thing to pursue, anyway!}

Wow, it is really WEIRD to see the way the Apologists for Right-Wing Talk Show Violence-Inciting Hate Radio, the way they twist & turn to try to find some JUSTIFICATION for SUPPORTING that Hate-Spewing!
I guess NONE of those people was ever a Tutsi.

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:51 pm
Scarlett, you are Cherokee? So am I. How funny we end up on opposite sides it seems.

And B.Mutiny, your correction is duly noted, I always get Calvalry and Cavalry mixed up. Thanks for correcting me instead of letting me go on with that. :)

Gorilly, you need to read MJM's article on Trolls so you can get up to speed. And B. Mutiny, yes, there are paid trolls who take glee in coming on our liberal blogs and web sites wagging their finger about free speech while they trash Obama. See, they just don't want us to have any glory or be proud of the good things we are trying to accomplish. A true Troll has no interest in factual dialog, they only want to disagree and derail the conversation.

My brother in law used to tell me "Bush is YOUR president and you should show him respect." I love my brother in law. Now, he trashes Obama too.

Let the wheat be separated from the chaffe by their words and their works. I don't blindly agree with everything Obama says and does, but I'm bright enough to recognize a transformational figure and a possible advocate for the people.

We will soon see how Obama backs up his word every time. We grow weary of him placating the right and worrying about what they think, and I'm sure he does too. He's a good man, and disagree with his policies all you like, but cast unearned aspersions and you'll have to deal with me!

Friday October 9, 2009, 1:54 pm
Okay this is why I hardley post on politics now i really feel stupid....Sorry guys...

Big Gorilly Hugs

Simole girl with simple heart trying to just get everyone to get along...My bad

Friday October 9, 2009, 2:00 pm
Oh! Gorilly! Don't go away! We need your genuine insights. It's just that as savvy blogospherians, we have to be aware when there's something nasty in the woodshed (re: Trolls) so we don't waste our time and get sidetracked. BIG GORILLY HUG TO YOU! :)

Friday October 9, 2009, 2:02 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Marion because you have done so within the last week. and GG you are doing a bang up job of getting everyone to get along, I applaud you..

Friday October 9, 2009, 2:06 pm
"Some are making this out a conservative versus democrat or whatever. And they MISS THE POINT. And they apparently think that this is about silencing their views. It isn't. They don't have to like President Obama, They don't have to agree with president Obama; they are free to express dislike of anything Obama does. And I am sure that you, Marion, would not be flagging them if that is what they did.

All they have to do is STOP the inciteful hateful speech calling for murder of the President and various other politicians, and various ethnic groups. IT IS SO SIMPLE.

So, your question above is valid: "why are they here opposing a campaign to make America safer? "

Hey, Nancy, you SUMMED IT UP in about a TENTH of the words I used!
[Hey, people, if I don't give you all Green Stars you deserve right away -- or answer your Network Messages, it's because my computer is acting a bit strange at times! But I'll get around to it!}

There is a thing called "FRAMING". Those trying to make out this concerted and valuable Anti-Hate effort to be OTHER THAN WHAT IT IS, are trying to put a different sort of "FRAME" around the topic.
THANK YOU, Nancy, for putting it plainly the way you did!!!

Friday October 9, 2009, 2:08 pm
Frankly Scarlett, I DO give a damn. I give a damn that you would disrespect OUR President and OUR Constitution. That you would give fodder to these racist bigots that this thread attempts to expose, only shows you are just as much a danger to America as the rest of them.

You have lost any remaning respect I might have had for you. Not 'Your' President. You are no American.