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Abandoning America's Honor


World  (tags: violence, world, war, usa, terrorism, 'HUMANRIGHTS!', death, crime, freedoms )

Cam
- 715 days ago - canadafreepress.com
Three men know the truth. Four men are dead. A nation's honor hangs in the balance



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Comments

Cam V. (417)
Friday November 2, 2012, 5:22 pm
There is much focus on the events following the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, as there should be. Four Americans, including a U.S. Ambassador are dead. Real Americans, real men do not leave other Americans to die mercilessly in the throes of battle, at their time of greatest need. That’s not who we are, individually as people or collectively as a nation. Yet the inquiries of late boil down to one simple but very revealing question that no one in a position of authority has answered: Is this what we’ve become?

This is a question that transcends politics, political parties and agendas. It is much bigger than all of that and all of us, and speaks to the very heart of who we are as a people, a nation, and a brotherhood and sisterhood of soldiers who have entrusted their lives to the men and women leading the greatest nation on earth. It is the very essence of who we are and everything for which we stand. It is about honor, and a man or a nation who has lost honor can lose nothing more.*

At the heart of the issue are four Americans whose names and faces we must never forget: Sean Smith, Glen Doherty, Tyrone Woods and U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens. They were sons and fathers, friends and family, and fellow soldiers doing what other Americans were not, could not or would not. At present, they are the face of America’s integrity and honor, exhibits of courage, and members of a special group who have died in the name of our nation.

Have we abandoned not only our dead, but our nation’s honor? With regard to the events in Benghazi, there is one very simple and expeditious way to put inquiring minds to rest, and to assure every American serving their country that they will not be left behind in their time of greatest need. Through a simple stroke of a pen, one man has the ability to put an end to the growing undercurrent of speculation and fear of abandonment: Barack Hussein Obama.

The accounts of the September 11, 2012 meeting in the Oval Office are well documented and undisputed in open source reports. Barack Hussein Obama, Joe Biden and Leon Panetta were meeting in the Oval Office at the very moment in time when the frantic pleas for help were made by our men who were engaged in a battle for their lives. In Benghazi, it was their final battle, but I beseech every American that it must not be ours.

Barack Obama has publicly assured every American that he ordered assistance to be dispatched to save our people. Let there be no equivocation, no word play, and no doubt, as the stakes are too high, the grief too real, and the consequences too dire to our country for anything but full and honest disclosure. We have told by Barack Obama that he issued an order, in real time, to save the lives of our men as the doors of hell opened before them.

That is his statement recorded in history. Three men know the truth. Four men are dead. A nation’s honor hangs in the balance.

Accordingly, it is a very simple matter to produce the “execute order,” or the written documentation of that one very narrow but very specific verbal command. Lest one opines that such disclosure would compromise our national security, I remind everyone of the massive disclosures that were so freely and willingly offered in the wake of the bin Laden operation.

Just as the bin Laden operation is over, so too is the Benghazi attack. A nation given the inside view of a celebrated successful operation now demands accountability in another. It must be done not only for the honor of the dead, but for the sake of our nation.

As an American, I say this to Barack Hussein Obama: Show us that you have the honor and integrity that you claim. “Own” this situation as you did the bin Laden operation. Put America first. Produce the order. Today.
 

Mike H. (228)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 9:41 am
We need answers to the questions about this tragedy. The criminals should have already bene hunted down and exterminated.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 10:10 am
Apparently orders were given and rescinded repeatedly, eventually getting finalized only after the fact.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57544026/sources-key-task-force-not-convened-during-benghazi-consulate-attack/

He could produce the order, but it wouldn't really mean anything. Those people were abandoned, not by cowardice nor malice, but by sheer incompetence. While it means little loss of honour, the implications are, in terms of the danger of future attacks, actually worse.
 

Joanne Dixon (40)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 12:15 pm
http://www.care2.com/news/member/101612212/3479430
 

Dianna M. (15)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 12:30 pm
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/11/02/1128831/new-details-discredit-fox-news-benghazi/

Amazing how the accusations keep changing. I guess when the facts refute one claim, come up with another.
 

Carol B. (0)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 12:52 pm
Nice job trying to smear the President, Cam. Your candidate of choice must be Romney, who wouldn't know the truth if it slapped him repeatedly and threw him to the ground. Why don't you take your little troll self back to The Blaze or some other right-wing site where your lies might have a more willing and braindead audience?
 

Luisa C. (1)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 1:16 pm
noted
 

Stella Gamboni (17)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 1:31 pm
The Japanese have a saying, "Fix the problem, not the blame." The point of the article is the antithesis of that philosophy.
 

Anthony Hilbert (6)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 2:30 pm
When I saw the headline, I thought it might be to do with some of the truly dishonorable things being done in America's name, such as torture, imprisonment without trial, bombing civillians etc. But no doubt the authors of this are perfectly happy with such things: the only meaning they know for "honor" is "dominance."
 

Lois Jordan (56)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 2:42 pm
Awww, c'mon...really? Where was this writer when the Bush Regime invaded Iraq? How many of our troops have died for Halliburton/KBR and other mercenary corporate contractors to profit so their shareholders could regain some of the enormous wealth they lost when the stock mkt. reopened after 9/11 and halved itself? Not to mention all the affluent cronies who expected to profit from the Iraq oil.
Thousands of American troops lost their lives...even more have come home as amputees, and victims of PTSD and brain injuries. It's disgusting that those who were perfectly happy to send them into war, were just has happy to deny them the medical treatment they needed upon return.

But, no--let's focus on this small incident that was an entanglement of the CIA....and they like to keep things secret. We actually may never find out the exact info because of the way these duplicitous agencies work. In case no one has noticed, presidents come & go...while these behemoths stay around for decades & decades working behind the scenes, entangling within other gov'ts, and rarely sharing the truth with us taxpayers or the media. To blame the president for not handing out info on this is ignorant.
 

Mori H. (0)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 3:21 pm
Words like " we must never forget" ... " its American Honor"... on and on... What a pitiful article. where was the author when we invaded Viet Nam? Where was the honor in all the death there, give me the names of 4 of your friends who died in that mud. Where is the honor in invading countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, these countries had nothing to do with 911 yet we have thousands of dead Americans and countless civilians there. So why are these 4 men so much more than those? Yes we are sad and yes it is a terrible thing. But the article once again sounds the clarion call to arms.. avenge the dead! Well I think the dead would rather be alive and back home, I think all those dead boys from all these horrible wars would have rather stayed home and worked, raised families and lived ... there was NO HONOR in those wars and none in these. Pres. Obama did not start the problems in the Middle East, you would have to go back to the 1950's or earlier, when American decided to out the then Democratically elected Iranian President and put in the Shah. We have been in turmoil ever since and the latest in Libya is just that.. it's the latest... not the first of the last. Please!!!! Bring all our men home from overseas. No more War in our lifetime! PEACE!
 

Cam V. (417)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 5:14 pm
The death of four American heroes is hardly something I would call pittiful Mori. An American hater are you? There are many questions regarding what happened when all of this went down. Obama's main job as President is to protect Americans. He failed the people who died. He failed the families of those people by not being up front and truthful about what happened. In fact he demonstrated he never gave a damn about these deaths by flying off to Nevada to campaign rather than making sure that compound was secured.

Answers need to be given. Transparency was something promised and not died. given to the American people.

Obama lied and people
 

Phil P. (92)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 7:23 pm
@ Cam V - RWNJ extraordinary. "Obama's main job as President is to protect Americans. He failed the people who died." Give me an f^**ing break. You're the type who would blame Obama if your dog ate your kid's homework.

What got those 4 men killed were jihadists who saw an opportunity to strike a blow at the USA given the opportunity by an Ambassador using poor judgement in running around an unstable and unsecured countryside on his own volition while not availing himself of adequate protection.
 

reece C. (29)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 7:48 pm
I read articles like this with somebody shouting "America's Honor is at Stake"!
And it brings images of a grey clad general sitting on a horse, and commanding 10,000 men o their deaths to protect the "honor" of the whatever.
Give me a break. I have lost friends and family to "honor" from Korea to Afghanistan. We have tens of thousands of returning military with serious injuries mental and physical, and a government that won't provide the help they need because it is bickering between parties.
We have oligarchs making a fortune off of the suffering of others, who don't commit their families to this or that war, but easily commit those of others.
Take your honor and shove it Cam V.
 

Aletta Kraan (146)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 7:57 pm
Noted !!!
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 8:43 pm
I thought this was about mabus - gwbusH (flip the gw=ma)

You haters need to get a life after Obama wins the election 55/45, k? This is just childish clinging. Ya'll's pillows are getting drool on them. OMG!!!
 

Cam V. (417)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 9:10 pm
Using words of degredation against me says more about your mindset than mine Jason and none of it good.

This is about the death of four Americans and an administration who thinks they do not have to answer to anyone for anything.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 10:57 pm
It shows that I know what the enemy of democracy looks like and I'm looking at it.
What about the thousands in Iraq? A lied into, treasonous war. Don't you think you're being way over selective?
This is all about the fact that the enemies at fox are STILL talking about it. It happened. No one foresaw it. People may have slipped but that's only because they're human, not of a party that has been under attack for 33 years.
Compare that to the FACT S that now show that BushCo KNEW about 9/11! Could you be any more transparent in your collective hypocrisy? I mean, COME ON!

I'm watching Rather have 2 guests show when the republican coup machine started to delegitimized the Democratic party and regain control our congress. Gingrich was a big part of it. The guy republican voters laugh at.

I'm also watching this coup against democracy continue. There's nothing like the truth.

You, Cam and your little friends are ALL part of this coup. It arrived wrapped in the american flag, shouting freedom and smaller government. It stood on a ship, all puffed up and shouted, mission accomplished. It was the beginning of the looting of america's economy by the owners and supporters of fox. It showed itself to us in 2007. Then you showed us its power by swearing to the opposite. Obama did it.
It has always been a huge, (Hitler huge) lie and it still is. You'll know it when you're pennyless.

I saw an idiot in the unemployment office, in late Jan of 2008 say, It's Obama's fault. Two weeks into his presidency! How can you be any more of a misinformed idiot than that? Why did I move my 401k to low risk in Oct. of 2007? Duh!!!
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Saturday November 3, 2012, 11:51 pm
We still feel the sadness of what happened to these men - shocking. When will there be answers? Thanks Cam.
 

Cam V. (417)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 12:29 am
Too right Patrica and Edward. What is stunning to me is the number of Americans who appear to not even give a damn about this.
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 1:03 am
You see Cam, your insults about Americans doesn't set well when it comes to those who prefer facts over a Teabagger Klan members from other nations that are questionable at best, as to their motives for posting on care2 ,as yours are to many of us. Fact is we give a damn but we also respect and allow our system of foreign affairs to sift through the facts and details before going off half cocked, so ta say, as you and other rightwingers keep doing on care2 with your articles...articles that often contain nothing more than irrational speculations... and even those keep changing as they each one is disproven, as another commenter pointed out .

Perhaps your teabagger klan buds are ok with you insulting Americans but as for the rest of us..we really don't take to it kindly..so ta say. You are as other rightwinger/teabagger klan members are in my opinion...on very thin ice with your insults and constant flow of speculation as to Benghazi and many of us have had way more than enough of your insults with such comments as 'Abandoning Americas honor ' due to disagreeing with the rightwings version/speuclation. I doubt that you would have the guts to say such anti American rethoric to any one of us face to face...
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 1:15 am
Make that " I doubt that you OR THE JERK WHO wrote this article would have the guts to say such anti American rethoric to any one of us face to face...

Shove your Anti American B.S. Cam..you've gone over board on it I think. Actually Cam.....my , as you called it 'accusation' is in fact just how I think about Teabagger Klan members ... as do a few million other Americans ...and that is that the majority are racist... so ....any Teabagger Klan member posting on care2 is suspect of being one in my opinion. That ol, if the shoe fits wear it Cam....I really don't understand why you don't have the guts to just say it it out loud , just as you have with your AntiAmerica opinions....in my opinion.

It's the Teabagger Klan that has abandoned Americas honor in my opinion Cam.
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 1:29 am
Strange how my reply to your comment .." Shove the racist accusations,Jae' ..appears prior to yours in which you made that statement. Oh well..it's easy to tell which of you comments I was replying to seeing as how I used your 'Shove and accusation' words in it. Still weird how the system got the comments out of order though. First time I've seen it do that but whatever...My points...shove you AntiAmerican B.S. rethoric Cam and yes...I believe the majority of teabagger klan members to be racist and I do find their posting in general to be suspect of being racist based. That's my opinion , as is that I for one have had enough of your AntiAmerican comments..but your still free to continue making them of couse...but i am also free to give my opinion about them just as others are also free to do on care2.
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 1:40 am

Once again the comments are appearing out of order...so here is the latest order the system shows :

Jae A. (284) Sunday November 4, 2012, *1:45 am*
What I find stunning are Canadian teabaggers , like yourself Cam, who spent as much time on care2 posting anti Obama articles as you do....Could racism be a big part of your motive...as your 'concern' as you've called it is all too often a tad bias and misinformed in my opinion...

Cam V. (415) Sunday November 4, 2012, *1:47 am*
Shove the racist accusation Jae.

 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 1:40 am
Cool huh !
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 1:45 am
What I find stunning are Canadian teabaggers , like yourself Cam, who spent as much time on care2 posting anti Obama articles as you do....Could racism be a big part of your motive...as your 'concern' as you've called it is all too often a tad bias and misinformed in my opinion...
 

Cam V. (417)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 1:47 am
Shove the racist accusation Jae.
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 5:46 am
Ah, once again the Canadian Tea Bagger subject of Her Majesty the Queen of England decides to regurgitate the baseless rantings of one of the more obscure and insane father-son teams of Tea Baggistan. First, Cam you sad little foreign provocateur, a CIA security team was dispatched to Benghazi less than 25 minuets after the first call and a second was dispatched from Tripoli. There is also proof that there were no orders given to anybody to stand down as to providing support. Second there is, although you and your sources try to obscure the fact, a very significant difference between an actual Navy Seal and a Navy Seal that has retired to become a high paid mercenary working for a private company and not the US Navy as were Woods and Doherty. There is nothing against their service to their, not your, country, but at the time they were not serving their country they were serving themselves as private for hire mercenaries. This whole story being pushed by you and your more than questionable sources has a big problem the CIA annex that Woods and Doherty left was also attacked twice that night. There are two other problems that you and the American Repug/Tea Bagged just conveniently fail to mention, 1) that the US Mission in Benghazi had requested, but did not receive, additional Benghazi police protection for the duration of Ambassador Stevens visit to the Benghazi Mission, 2) There is also the plain and simple fact that the Repug/Tea Bagged controlled US House has not only refused to increase funding for State Department Security, Issa called the request 'Bullshit', but they have cut Hundreds of Millions from the budget. I have no basis for assuming that you are racist, but for some one who has no dog in this fight you certainly seem to be extremely partisan for the Repug/Tea Bagged cause and you do suffer from an extreme case of ODS, Obama Derangement Syndrome, that certainly does have an obvious effect on your ability to consider other sources for your parroting.
 

Dianna M. (15)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 7:07 am
Let's see: American marines were there, the American CIA in Benghazi came to help, Libyan troops were side-by-side with American marines . . .

Just out of curiosity, Cam V.--did Canadian troops come to the aid of the Americans in Benghazi? There is a Canadian embassy in Libya, isn't there? Why didn't our Canadian allies come to our aid?
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 9:12 am
You cannot currently send a star to Jae because you have done so within the last week.

 

Past Member (0)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 9:27 am
5 Disturbing Signs Romney Would Steer Us to Towards a Capitalist Dictatorship

Juan Cole, Informed Comment

The lies and activities of Mitt's campaign show a contempt for democracy itself. READ MORE»

Democracy Danger Signs: Romney's 800+ Vetoes as Mass. Governor.

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet

And Romney was overrode over 96% of the time. READ MORE»

Republicans Whip Up Fears of Rigged Voting Machines to Delegitimize a Likely Obama Win

By Steven Rosenfeld, AlterNet

Top state election officials reply in forceful letters debunking accusations. READ MORE»

See what's happening? China bound!
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 9:49 am
Jae, I believe many Islamic states show much deeper and sharper racist attitudes to non-Muslims than anyone in Tea party, or may be in the whole US!

Be careful when speaking about racism, because Islamic law imposes death penalty to those who has relations with Muslim girls, who sells land to Jews, who defends his faith (when different from Islam), who permits using non-Muslim women as sex slaves.

You really should not bring racism into discussion, when talking to the most conservative people here, because those whom you defend are much worse.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 9:52 am
Phil, are you servious with "an Ambassador using poor judgement in running around an unstable and unsecured countryside on his own volition while not availing himself of adequate protection." Are you blaming the ambassador, because there was no security for him, and Obama would not give evacuation orders to prove that he knows what he is doing?

 

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 10:31 am
Hi Cam,

I am interested in your opinion of Jae, Jason, and Lloyd. What do you think of their ethics and morals? Do you consider them open-minded or bigots? Would you attribute their behaviour to foolishness, misinformation despite due diligence, or malice, and do you think it matters?
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 11:28 am
There have been a couple of comments posted since I began typing my following one. I will come back to any comments in my direction once I see that this comment has been post.
************************************************************
II don't think it is a secret that racism exist and it exist wiithin the Teabagger Klan ,probably more so than in any 'groups' other than the KKK/White Surpremist/SkinHead , in my opinion. As I said, that is just my opinion but it is my honest one. Obama has been a target of racism since he first ran for office......I think nearly everyone,if not everyone, the world over is aware of that...Racist bring race to the table all the time Bob...thinly vailed in general but it's there.
It appearss on care2 just as on other sites etc...but I for one really don't care for those who are and that try and slip it by as something else ....If one followers the comments of the some people ...individuals and or the group or groups they identify themselves with for a long period of time it becomes rather clear that some form of racism is behind their dislike of our President......in my opinion.

Who am I defending here Bob ? Not Muslims I can tell you that. I don't see where anyone on this thread is defending Muslims . I personally believe Muslim extremist are a very harmful group to the world , and I also beleive that Christian extremist can also be harmful to world...Basically Bob..I just don't care much for organized religions and or groups that hide behind them, such as I think the teabaggers do....I think Muslims are probably the most harmful of religions currently but I also think that others could take second place if extremist of theirs are allowed to by others around them...be it in the U.S. or any number of places,and do so in a 'heart beat ' as the ol saying goes. To me...Extremist are the most harmful, whatever religion it is...or that someone belongs to. Teabaggers are an extremist group in my opinion, just as.. I believe ...that racism is the glue that holds them together.
You see Bob , I didn't think of race when you brought the 'word' Muslim into the conversation, I thought ...Religion. It took me a moment to see what I think you were getting at...Muslims as a race..not just as a Religon ? Race just isn't what I think of when someone's religon is mention..as most religions come in many skin colors / race..even that of the Muslim one.

I am also not sure Bob if your 'warning' about not to bring up racism when talking where conservatives are means that is because they are racist? IF that is what you were getting at.... I don't think all conservatives are racist but I believe that many of them probably are...hell there are gays that are racist..which is mindnumbing to me...just as it is with any minority who are racist....and yes there are persons of different colors that are also racist..but I fail to see why I or anyone should avoid 'race' when it is something that is obviously a big element when it comes to Obama...his being of mixed race...black/white...and it's his race that.. I beleive... to be a big focal point behind the Teabagger Klan group in particular and their main reason for posting anything that they can blame Obama for , even if it's totally an outragious connection..just as they have done with the things Dubya caused.

What I am defending here... is America/Americans.... against what I see as Anti-America comments ...rethoric...B.S....

Bob..as I have stated....it's not the race of some that I don't care for/see as harmful to people/the planet...it's their religions. I am sure there are many more Middle Eastern people that I would like along with those that I already do know and like...but I will never take to their religion [s] ..due to some of the things you mentioned Bob....which other religions also believe in some of those .IF anyone appears to be a religious extremist to me, I really don't care to know or be around them if possible..not even relatives if that were the case. The Christian religion has all kinds of what many of them believe ,according to their bibles,to be justifiable stoning to death of people...wives/women...sons..and other. and fine with war etc.

The extremist of so many religions are the ones still believing in their bibles/prophacies/religous text etc. to the letter ...so to say....and they want to force their religious views onto everyone else....or that's how I see them. They are also the ones who think that 'their ' translations' of their religions is the only one etc. ..and many of them believe, as does Romney , that those of his religion will be the only ones going to some kind of heaven where he and others will be Gods etc. All fantasy, in my opinion Bob.

Conserative are not of a concern of mine Bod as I don't think there is a conservative politican to be found anymore. That term was shot to hell under Reagan as he took spending to an all time high ...at that time. Dubya Bush came along and spend and borrow recklessly / irresponsibly us into trillions of debt beyond what any of us could have believe he would. Republicans..sure...but conservatives....no so much if they still support a Republican politican in my opinion....

..and yes..I am still going to stand against those comments and those who make them that I beleive to be Anti-American rethoric/B.S., as well as those I believe ..probably are... racist in my opinion. I prefer the facts over speculation/rumor/lies etc. and that I personally beleive that no honor has been abandoned by Americans, but if any has, as I mention above somewhere, it's been the Teabaggers Klan that have in my opinion, Actually I will broaden... my opinion...to...'teabagger klan ...all rightwing ''extremist'' groups in general', if anyone has
 

Dianna M. (15)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 11:43 am
Bob Algernon, Phil P--Ambassador Christopher Stevens DID have protection--he had five guards with him. And wasn't he inside the consulate when he was found? And now I'm hearing that he died of smoke inhalation. So, my question is, How many guards does it take to keep one safe from smoke inhalation in a burning building? --A burning building, mind you, surrounded by attackers. And it was the Libyan people who found him and rushed him to the hospital.

As for your charges of racism, you may want to read this article, posted right here on Care2 on January 7, 2011: http://www.care2.com/causes/besa-muslims-who-saved-jews-during-world-war-ii-now-on-exhibit-in-nyc.html
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 12:36 pm
Stephen Brian ...I am not exactly sure about who 'they/them' are that you make referrence to above my last comment. Maybe I'm just a little tired this morning or too focused still on the whole of this discussion to let it be clear to me who each are that you mentioned. Commenters on this thread? Teabagger Klan? Those in Benghazi ? Those in the chain of command ?

This might not be along the lines of what you are asking Stephen but maybe it will help some as to your question [s].

What I beleive when it comes to Benghazi ...is that all of the middle east is a hot spot for serious danger to take place at any given time...in so many different places at the same time even. That in this particular incedent that air strikes would have been something to not even consider, much less do, prior to what did take place...no afterward either.

I believe that mistakes can be made,especially with so many events/tensions existing wihin the middle east.

What I also believe is that it is the GOP in our Congress that has abandend our embassies the world over with their recent cuts to embassy security budgets. Now that the event in Benghazi has taken place it should be clear to them that their doing so is not a smart move as to the future of our embassies.

I beleive we have a foreign affairs system and chain of command that people are to follow..and that if there are problems in it, then those should be corrected quickly...but it is a system that has been around for decades and one that works [possibly better before so many agencies/depatment were all throw together under one 'blanket' so to say...being that of 'Homeland Security] as well as any that I've noticed/know about etc. But it isn't flawless.

I beleive that to blame the President is rediculous for what happened there...I blame those responsible for taking the actions that killed the people that day. I beleive it is ok to moarn the lost of the lives lost that day and to try and make sure it doesn't happen again regardless of the 'if's an or but's...of why this did happen beyond the facts know for certain...first of which is that they were attact and killed by others...others that must be brought to justice.

I also beleive that we can not let every skirmish/suicide bomber/fire bombings that take place in the middle east especially, turn into a battle after the fact , much less into a war. I think that finding those who did the killing to be what is most important at this time...and to see to it that embassy budgets are restored and possibly even increased now instead of cuts in them as the GOP in Congress have done.

I also believe that your statement " While it means little loss of honour, the implications are, in terms of the danger of future attacks, actually worse." ..is what has to come to light/focused on, now.

There are people on all sides that do not want peace, much less talks to work out differences in various regions. Embasses are the physical reminder of each nations representation and therefore they are a target, possible more so now than before by radical extremist.

As with everything political in the middle east currently, there are no easy answers nor solutions..in my opinion. That is why I beleive that we must not rush to arms/killing etc. with every unfortunate event that takes place there. It's a very dangerous place and those there are aware of that...and they are aware of what can happen at the drop of a hat so ta say. It's the chance many are willing to take for their nation [s] in order to do their jobs. We must protect them the best that we can but there is always an element of risk that says they can not all be protect every moment...especially not with limited/reduced security budget cuts.

I firmly believe that anyone who says anything remotely like that of "Abandoning Americans Honor'' are without honor as well as having any common sense. I find such persons to be Anti-American..of which many are also,in my opinion, racist who make such statements.

As for the topics of "ethics/morals/ bigots/ foolishness/misinformation / malice"... when it comes to rightwingers in general...all one has to do is observe how they''ve lied, used racism,hate/fear mongering/promoted misinformation etc. while supporting their candidates, who have also done each of those things time an time again ...to know where they stand on each of those,in my opinion. ..To know what I think about their doing so in more details'... when it comes to each of those topics...well I've posted my opinion as to each of them on many a thread on care2 :-)...
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 12:42 pm
Thanks for bring the fact that "that he died of smoke inhalation"..it was something I almost mentioned but then forgot :-( ...but it was know early on that is what killed him but it was totally ignored by those on the 'Repbulican ' support side...and understandably so seeing that their goal was to blame the President no matter what . I too think that he had ample protection....but the room apparently did not have a seperate oxygen supply system within the room..probably due to GOP budgets cuts I'm guessing .
 

monka blank (81)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 1:57 pm
"not worthy".
Obama-Biden 2012 !!!
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 4:02 pm
Hi Jae,

I was actually asking Cam about his opinion of you and two other posters in this thread.

I should probably point out a little detail which has been thoroughly overlooked here: The honour in question is not just some kind of silly outdated bragging-right. When any government sends people into dangerous environments, those people would have to be insane to go if they did not believe the government had their backs. The classic "no man left behind" strategy wasn't about the people who might have been left behind, but about those who would otherwise have been unwilling risk it. I understand that you don't believe there was any systematic problem which would deprive other U.S. diplomats of protection in the future, but if there were, do you think the U.S. could continue to engage in the sort of assistance in nation-building in which Stephens was involved? If the problem were systemic for all cases of danger to personnel, do you believe that American soldiers would follow orders if, for example, the U.S. tries to assist the government in Mali? The issue of a leader's honour is serious because where it fails, the government, state, and sometimes the whole country, can be paralysed.
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 4:35 pm
THanks for the clarification Stephen, so I too will await Cam reply [s].

 

Cam V. (417)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 4:46 pm
We are no longer bowing to any Queen here in Canada. Declared independence in 1967. I have actually written Harper a couple of times since this whole thing went down to ask where we are in Lybia right now. We do have an embassy in Tripoli but I have yet to determine if it is still open or if we closed it when Britian closed theirs.

What do I think of the two posters you asked about Stephen? If a view that differes from mine is given respectfully I always hold that poster in good esteem. We all have a right to our own opinions. When I post articles - in particular those coming out of American news sources I always keep in mind that news sources there right now are like a childrens fight. Two kids start fighting and run to their parents who then get involved and end up fighting. Meanwhile in the background the kids have made up and are playing together again as the parents rail against each other.

There are two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle of what is related usually lies the truth. But when it is not even discussed I have to wonder what the heck is really wrong with the American media. Had this happened under Bush (who is gone btw) they would have been all over this like a pack of rabid dogs AND THAT IS THE TRUTH.

I think accusations of racism are childish as is ANY name calling but even I can only take so much of it. I have reacted in anger at times though I do try my best not to. Racism to me is a disease that is taught and when you throw unfounded accusations around like that I take it as a huge insult. I am French Canadian and actually experienced a lot of that growing up because I was raised outside of Quebec. I am also 69 so can report that times are very different today. I am not a racist.
 

Cam V. (417)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 4:53 pm
Lastly I attibrute their 'behaviour' to being stuck up to the waist in political ideology that they might think is a one size fits all type of ideology. As a reformed raging liberal myself, I have found that what is more honest is looking at what our political parties put out and making an honest attempt to find someone who fits more of what I like to see in a politician. Actions speak to me louder than their words do. What have they done with their lives? How did they get to where they are now and what of my views will they represent?

Do they respond to me when I ask questions and ANSWER THEM directly? If they don't they are off my list of people I could support for anything. It may surprise you to know that here in British Columbia I support the Liberal Party. The alternative we have here right now is a Progressive version of that which is far too left wing for my liking. Too pro union - pro socialistic ideology. It does not work. I live it so I know.

I am a pro choice, fiscal conservative and an atheist so religion does not enter into any of my thinking anymore though I was raised Catholic. I also support gay marriage. Have made a few friends in that community and in doing that was able to get rid of unfounded fears about homosexuals that I was raised with.
 

Jae A. (323)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 8:07 pm
Cam...I ...did not call you a racist....I ask 'if racism could be a part of your motive'...and later I did say that I am suspect of any Teabagger Klan member of being a racist as that is the glue I believe ,as do many others, that holds them together and is something that the majority of people believe them to be. I have said similar on other threads but have added on threads of yours,knowing you are Canadian/in Canada, that is the imagine of Teabaggers Klan in the U.S.

I did enjoy you somewhat different spin to your political thinking/philosophy than it has appear to me to be in the past but it is also in more detail than any I've noticed of yours before. I can appriciate your comments above even if not those prior or those within by another in the article.

Enjoy'd the bantering....and the views of all. Now it's time to see to it that the Romney and Lyn' Ryan do not make it into the White House....as we sure don't need another rush to war or total economic collapse... along with more job lost due to the Republcians and those like Romney who love to fire people and out source jobs in order to make a few extra dollars for their corporates........in my opinion. We need ways around having to cut education funding...improve social service for those in need, the elderly or whoever , and the tax burdon on the middle class must be shared by the wealthiest in the nations..not give them more exemptions. We need to keep our medicare and social security and those alone mean that we need to not have another day of a Republican in our White House much less eight like the last spend/borrow/death/destruction administartion...................in my opinion.

I think it is time we stood against those who continue to put down the Office of our current President in this country ...for all the wrong reasons...... and continue to oppose anti-American, morale if nothing else, articles... such as I believe this one to be...which as I have said already,it's insulting to many of us in America...in my opinion.
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Sunday November 4, 2012, 8:41 pm
Cam, as best as I canvalidate your 'independace' claim would be the Canada Act of 1982 which still leaves Canada as a federal state government governed by a parlamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy with Queen Elizabeth II as head of state.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Monday November 5, 2012, 9:17 pm
Hi Lloyd,

The position of Queen Elizabeth in Canada is an odd one: The Governor General whom she technically appoints is the formal head of state. I say "technically" because she chooses from candidates presented by Canada's PM, and normally only one is presented. While she is on Canadian soil, I believe that she assumes the power of the Governor General, but while off it, she has no official standing in Canada (except as the head of state of a major ally). The last time a Governor General actually exercised the considerable power of the position, however, was long enough ago that I am having trouble looking it up. I think it was in the first half of last century.
 
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