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God and the Universe

Society & Culture  (tags: education, ethics, interesting, humans, society, philosophy, Stephen Hawking, mysticism, religion, dogma, universe, creationism, spirituality )

- 2834 days ago -
Science and religion have been a constant state of conflict over issues of creation. Whereas dogma has always been a barrier to the joys of free thinking, perhaps science too must accept that there is another way to look at things...

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Buffy F (93)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 7:39 am
Interesting, thanks Vikram

Vallee R (280)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 7:42 am
And my comment is - where do the feelings from within our own heart come from????? I don't believe from ignorance.

patricia lasek (317)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 7:58 am
Thanks Vikram. Personally I believe that some men are so vain, they think they don't need any sort of God, Spiritual Being, Higher Up than them. Life is a gift.

Charla D (67)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 8:03 am
I think there is a great similarity between people who are dogmatically scientific and/or atheists (as opposed to an agnostic, who simply admits he doesn't know/isn't sure) and those who are dogmatically religious. I'm sure they wouldn't want to admit this, but I bet if a brain scan were to be run, fanatics on both ends of the science/religion spectrum would have the emotional areas of the brain active and the frontal cortex rather inactive when it comes to their beliefs, much to their chagrin I'm sure. Over time, I think science and religion, or should I say, spirituality, will come into harmony and we will discover that indeed "there is more in Heaven and Earth than is dreamt in our philosophies..."

Stephen Hill (633)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 8:04 am
We need to stop intellectualizing and focus on feeling in the now. Energy is not something one sees, except for the results of it. We see conduits of energy and we attract the energy we project. Negative or positive. I like to refer to God as the Great Spirit. Similar to the traditions of the Native Americans who believe that we are all one, yet there is a divine power which represents all that is good on this planet. It is our objective to follow that good for the sake of mankind and all living creatures on Earth.

We can focus, not on the creation of the universe, but believe that we are one with the universe. We are the creators and the energy of the universe. I am simply not dogmatic and that is after a number of years of practicing dogma as a priest. For me, my religion and belief system is rooted with Mother Earth. Here is the realm my energy exits and here is where I will share the light of all that is good with my fellow man and animals.

In our group here on care2 we explore different roads to peace, love and light. That Group is called "The Art of Communication". There is no religion right or wrong path to peace and unity with your creator and mankind.

I thank Vikram for stimulating our conciseness with this article. I simply do not subscribe to scientific evidence when it comes to Faith and Hope in God, the creator, Great Spirit or what ever you want to call the divine power. It is a moot issue with me as to who came first, ~~ God or the Universe. We are here now. Let us deal with the now!

Respectfully, Stephen

Kathy Javens (104)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 8:07 am
awesome article, Vikram. Thank you.

Margaret Skinner (94)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 8:08 am
God created the Earth, we were sent from the World of spirit to the Earth learn and share [unfortunately..thats not happening]We are all God's children......He is the creator.....blessings.....

Ibrahim Ahmadkhanlou (48)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 9:10 am
That is quite an intriguing concept, we especially understand that how everything we know in our existence of science came because of this nothing. Well of course, man started with blank canvas like a painter. We have became more aware that we could paint both sides and expand the canvas in all directions. Though this idea of god creating the universe or vice versa is widely up for debate. God, simply in my belief is an experience rather than a creation that is felt through the joys of an individual's own life but this is feeling that is seldom found because we are all very tangled in the defiled network of life we have at the moment. Heck, maybe "God" and the Universe are one in same, and if this was true. Then everything in the Universe including ourselves, animals, rocks, plants are one in the same as well.

Apolonia P (393)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 10:50 am

Vikram Chhabra (394)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 11:15 am
Thank you all for your wonderful comments and feedback. I think this is a very difficult topic as we are often pulled between the clarity of logic and the emotions of the heart.:)

I am learning so much from your replies!


Michael C (217)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 11:37 am
Noted, thanks Vikram...It was a fascinating article...

kay h (156)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 12:23 pm
Thanks Vikram ....interesting !
I think it could be that God is the universe ........or the unverse is god ???

Bob Algeron (47)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 12:32 pm
TY Vicram! A good article indeed.


Andrea Dorazio (56)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 12:35 pm
Very good article and some great comments however RE Charlene S---I certainly would never refer to an atheist as a fanatic...they just don't believe in God....there is nothing fanatical about that that I can see. Thanks Vikram!

Thursday September 16, 2010, 12:55 pm
Very interesting and thought provoking article.
I like the last 2 sentences: Maybe the answers lie within the infinite expanse of our own hearts. We just tend to look in the wrong places.
I believe we all have a soul, and I suppose our souls know the answers to all of the questions. We just don't often quiet our minds enough to hear what our soul is saying.

Little A (33)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 2:06 pm

[A United Atheist Alliance meeting.]
UAA Leader: Fellow atheists: the time child has returned with information on our sworn enemies, the Allied Atheist Alliance. They have started digging for clams in sector J7. If we mount an all-out attack, we can wipe out their food supply!
UAA 2: But, those are civilian otters.
UAA Leader: We cannot tolerate the otters! Their Science is flawed! Their answer to the Great Question is different from ours.
UAA 3: Yes, but... sending out all our ships at the same time... it would leave our city exposed!
UAA Leader: ...That's why we have to be super-duper sure that nobody finds out we're doing it.

[Unified Atheist League headquarters. The UAL elders gather to discuss the situation]
UAL 1: [hanging upside down from a jet-powered platform] The United Atheist Alliance is about to send out all its defense ships to take down the Allied Atheist Allieance's clam fields.
UAL 2: Praise Science. This is your chance, young Shvek, to avenge your father's death.
UAL 3: Careful, son. Just because their Science leads them to a different answer to the Great Question doesn't mean we have the right to kill them all.
Shvek: No! Our answer to the Great Question is the only logical one. Our Science is great. [walks away from the table and stands before a wall] Let us not forget the great Richard Dawkins who finally freed the world of religion long ago. [a painting is shown, with Dawkins in it] Dawkins knew that logic and reason were the way of the future. [More of the painting is shown: Mrs. Garrison appears] But it wasn't until he met his beautiful wife that he learned using logic and reason isn't enough. You have to be a dick to everyone who doesn't think like you. [turns around] Prepare all the troops! We will level the United Atheist Alliance to the ground!

watch the clip here at

Little A (33)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 2:16 pm
If someone is a posterchild of escapism, it's him.
(We need to build spaceships to avoid extinction, don't seek aliens; aliens are bad. Timetravel, anyone?)
If my God would leave me like that in a wheelchair, I would like to erase God too (I think)
I think we're making more out of him than he deserves.
He said "physics don't need God" not that God didn't exist but perhaps implied that.

If the latter were the case, and at the risk of repeating myself, his predecessor Newton,
was a man of religion. Just like all of the great minds before Darwin (also a man of religion) and the only reason we have science is because of men who stood on the shoulders of giants.
Their diligence, their tenacity, reason and passion, seeing more than what the eye beheld. After all, we only see what we want to see, confined in our own world.
To paraphrase Newton again, if it were Hawking sitting under that tree seeing a apple fall down he wouldn't think of
forces unseen but would say:
"Fact, an apple fell."

Hawkins should think about whether it is suffice to only know the ingredients or be able to make the right recipe.

The dismissal of religion was already tested in Communist Russia and China.
The only thing that came out of that were
people in desperate search of leaders, stars, idols and
people thinking of them as more special than others, only demanding to be revered.

That kind of proves we want to belief in something else than ourselves. The belief
in something higher than ourselves is what allowed us to foster children, family and nature.
Without it, we turn into egocentrics,
only out for the next big win at whatever cost.

Atheists are the new preachers and condemning, degrading everybody who doesn't believe in their (angry) reasoning, they are the same as religious fanatics. The spectrum goes both ways.
But mostly, what I miss in them is an inner stillness, light in their eyes...that alone makes me a believer in Higher Powers.

Sharon Balloch (127)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 2:23 pm
Gee I do not know if I can take Mr Hawkings serious, he just argued for almost 30 years that a black hole swallows up everything that falls into it, then backpedaled and admitted he was wrong and in doing so, he lost one of the most famous bets in recent scientific history. Now thats losing big time.. And Dawkins king of the Atheists thinks we were made by super smart aliens from outer space. So I guess its just anyone but God for some..

Ann Eastman (31)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 4:54 pm
I do not know whether a God is or is not needed to describe the creation of the Universe. For many of us, however, the construct of a higher power in some form is a very important part of how we define or modulate our relationship to the Universe.

pam w (139)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 5:55 pm
What I admire about my atheist friends is the LIGHT in their minds...a light which is born of actual thought, reason and self-determination!

It's interesting that atheists are so often described as "condemning, degrading...angry...fanatics" when they are merely standing up for their rights to live in a nation free of religious interference. Look at the threads active on Care2 right now where outraged Christians deny the illegality of "under God" in the pledge and on currency.

Hawking's brilliance is a gift to all of us and I'm happy to be alive at the same time he is working and giving us the benefit of his mind. A mind which is lit by such brilliance shines far more brightly than one lit by superstition and "instinct."

Mack David (100)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 6:22 pm
The nothing is the absolute.
Beautiful post.

Ralph R Sutton (56)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 7:28 pm
It should make one wonder why the most brilliant minds all question the existence or need for a god. Einstein would also fit the description Pam gave of Hawking.

Vikram Chhabra (394)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 7:40 pm
Thank you all for your wonderful comments. I personally hold great scientists like Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein in utmost regard for having taught us so much about the physical universe. The aim of the article was just to consider the possibility of a different way of thinking beyond the limitations of both religion and science. In no way was it meant to offend anyone for their beliefs..:)

Kathy Chadwell (354)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 8:34 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Vikram because you have done so within the last week.

Here is what I believe (& what I told my daughters science teacher eons ago:)
Some believe they crawled out of the oceans, then evolved from monkeys, & maybe they did.
Some believe aliens are responsible, & maybe they are.
But God created me:)
Maybe that could account for that x, y, z factor being different in some people, maybe that could account for why some of us have an abundance of compassion & empathy while others have little or none. Guess I'll just have to wait till I die to see if I'm right.
And if I'm wrong,,, I won't know, nor care:)
Thank you Vikram

pam w (139)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 8:52 pm
Anyone who believes they evolved from monkeys is CLEARLY ignorant about evolution.

Matloob ul Hasan (81)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 8:53 pm
"Perhaps acceptance of ignorance is the way to find all the answers." This is the key, IMHO.

Noted, thanks.

Matloob ul Hasan (81)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 8:59 pm
When I look at Stephen Hawking I am reminded of how great Allah/God/Jehovah is.

pam w (139)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 9:03 pm
"Perhaps acceptance of ignorance is the way to find all the answers."

As an educator (in a zoo environment,) I find ignorance to be the enemy, Matloob....ignorance is behind most problems in the world today. We're ignorant of the costs of our overpopulation, our devastation of the planet, our disrespect of other species, of science, of arts, many things.

So...when confronted with ignorance, it's almost impossible for me to sit quietly and allow it to continue....especially when it's such a harmful thing.

gail dair (0)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 10:18 pm
Thanks Vikram

Marj C (4)
Thursday September 16, 2010, 10:55 pm
Vikram, thinking and belief seem never to meet. I remember something that happened several years ago. My late husband and I were traveling in our trailer in the south or west I think it was. Some nice folks were already there next to us. We were sitting around and talking that night, when the woman said that they were Christians. I don't know what prompted me to open my mouth, but out popped, "We're agnostics." Boy, did the conversation change and slow down after that.

When we got up next day, they had lit out. I guess they thought I said atheist.

Chien Chao (105)
Friday September 17, 2010, 12:04 am
Thought is an Endless Universe

Rajee Seetharam (138)
Friday September 17, 2010, 4:27 am
I call Him God...the one who is always turning my life into positive mode! Listen to your heart and mind and ask from whither comes our thoughts, answers, solutions, emotions, etc, etc.' Everything in nature is created to bond, share and live life with joy in sharing the space given....all inclusive....plants, animals, people...I call it all God, someone else may call it nature, science, whatever, whatever!!
God Bless everyone, everywhere! Noted with thanks.

Friday September 17, 2010, 6:52 am

Rebecca T (1)
Friday September 17, 2010, 7:56 am
I have never believed in a god and never will. This does not make me an immoral person, and has absolutely nothing to do with fanaticism or vanity, as some might ignorantly suggest. Religious fanaticism and extremism is a mainstay... atheistic fanaticism? Not so much. As an atheist, I find it rather ironic that most people such as myself support religious freedom as a promotion for peace, while the majority of people who belong to particular faiths do not. They preach love and acceptance while practicing discrimination and condemnation for those who do not believe in whatever version of "The Fairytale" they subscribe to. Is it not telling that the most barbaric behaviors in the world can be justified using religion, and often when people are asked for their opinions they quote the Bible, Qu'ran, etc., rather than formulate their own independent ideas?

Vikram Chhabra (394)
Friday September 17, 2010, 8:37 am
@Marjorie, I agree with you totally. I feel the danger of rigid thoughts is that it makes us disrespectful of people who have a different world view. In my humble opinion, that is fanaticism. This is one reason I am finding myself getting more and more distant from practised religions per se, but not from the spiritual texts hidden below thick layers of dogma and hate.

@Rebecca, you have raised very pertinent points. Dogmatic beliefs have not left the world inspite of so much advancement in science and technology. Kindness and respect IMHO, is the greatest possible virtue. This includes kindness toward others with different opinions or beliefs. I concur with your sentiments.

pam w (139)
Friday September 17, 2010, 9:17 am
Good one, Rebecca! TIME magazine had an article last year and the point was whether or not religious discrimination would prevent Romney (a Mormon) from being "electable."

I wrote a letter (which they published) stating that anyone who doubts or speaks against religious discrimination should ask themselves if they could imagine voting for an avowed atheist.

We are the last group which routinely suffers discrimination...spoken or unspoken. Even homosexuals have advocates with campaigns, many of them supported by churches. But that religious sector, alone in the polling booth, is unlikely to vote for an atheist.

Mitzie W (42)
Friday September 17, 2010, 11:10 am
I have always been confused as why people think science disproves god. It is something that only keeps on proving and proving the existence of a creator. I don't know where the separation began but they, science and god, are the same thing.

Past Member (0)
Friday September 17, 2010, 12:28 pm
Science and religion can go hand in hand. The two don't need to be at odds with one another. Time for example is a starting point. I recently heard a religious lecture given by an Orthodox rabbi saying that it could be possible that at certain times advances are more rapid than others and so what happens in one day may be a jump in years. This is not so difficult to imagine. Look at the advances made since WWII. Science placed a man on the moon when just 15 years earlier humankind was just experimenting with radar. The Pope too said just today that science and religion owed it to each other to realize the debt each had to the other. Spirituality and science have more in common than just the initial letter, we need to discern the similarities instead of searching only for the differences.

. (0)
Friday September 17, 2010, 12:30 pm
OH-KAY! This Guy is Soooo Full of IT. I would like to know if he can describe how HE created himself inside his mothers womb, and how the World and all the Vast Galaxies were created, how to create a seed that dies and reproduces itself, and sets a Sun, and Moon in the sky, and until he can prove any of these things, I refer back to my first statement.....see above. Scary for Him, He is definitely a lost soul... trying to get attn.
There is Only ONE God, Creator of the Universe and Every Living Thing, Who is Mighty to Save Us from Ourselves.

John Goodspeed (79)
Friday September 17, 2010, 12:30 pm
All Stephen Hawkings provided is proof that the universe could have formed without some supernatural being being involved. He certainly never tried to prove that superstitious beliefs have no foundation in fact. It is probably impossible to establish that all superstitions are without any validity whatsoever.

Why are the superstitious so terrified by the concept that theirs is the only answer?

Terry B (649)
Friday September 17, 2010, 12:57 pm
Well, I want to know just who this doofus is that is supposed to be running things and like any other cheap egotisical politician is making a thorough mess of it.

Human beings are purportedly supposed to be made in "his" image. Are we talking Hitler or Mother Teresa, Yasser Araft or Golda Meir, Jeffrey Daumer or Albert Schweizer, St. Thomas or Michael Vick, Michael Jordan or Billy Barty, George W. Bush or Albert Einstein? Who is this clown supposed to resemble.

I was going to ask Zeus humself in Greece, but he wasn't home.

Cheryl B (64)
Friday September 17, 2010, 1:39 pm
Thanks for telling the world

John Goodspeed (79)
Friday September 17, 2010, 1:51 pm
Terry B. (519) Friday September 17, 2010, 12:57 pm wrote:

"Well, I want to know just who this doofus is that is supposed to be running things and like any other cheap egotisical politician is making a thorough mess of it.

Human beings are purportedly supposed to be made in "his" image. Are we talking Hitler or Mother Teresa, Yasser Araft or Golda Meir, Jeffrey Daumer or Albert Schweizer, St. Thomas or Michael Vick, Michael Jordan or Billy Barty, George W. Bush or Albert Einstein? Who is this clown supposed to resemble. "

Oh, Terry B., you silly;

Everybody knows Mother Teresa was a woman, so how could she ever be worthy of such suspicion.


Vikram Chhabra (394)
Friday September 17, 2010, 2:03 pm
Looks like both John and Terry are adamant on unleashing Armageddon over here...:)

Scarlett P (126)
Friday September 17, 2010, 2:05 pm
The Lord Jesus spake by the angel, solemnly confirming the contents of this book, particularly of this last vision. He is the Lord God faithful and true. Also by his messengers; the holy angels showed them to holy men of God. They are things that must shortly be done; Christ will come quickly, and put all things out of doubt. And by the integrity of that angel who had been the apostle's interpreter. He refused to accept religious worship from John, and reproved him for offering it. This presents another testimony against idolatrous worship of saints and angels. God calls every one to witness to the declarations here made. This book, thus kept open, will have effect upon men; the filthy and unjust will be more so, but it will confirm, strengthen, and further sanctify those who are upright with God. Never let us think that a dead or disobedient faith will save us, for the First and the Last has declared that those alone are blessed who do his commandments. It is a book that shuts out form heaven all wicked and unrighteous persons, particularly those who love and make lies, therefore cannot itself be a lie. There is no middle place or condition. Jesus, who is the Spirit of prophecy, has given his churches this morning-light of prophecy, to assure them of the light of the perfect day approaching. All is confirmed by an open and general invitation to mankind, to come and partake freely of the promises and of the privileges of the gospel. The Spirit, by the sacred word, and by convictions and influence in the sinner's conscience, says, Come to Christ for salvation; and the bride, or the whole church, on earth and in heaven, says, Come and share our happiness. Lest any should hesitate, it is added, Let whosoever will, or, is willing, come and take of the water of life freely. May every one who hears or reads these words, desire at once to accept the gracious invitation. All are condemned who should dare to corrupt or change the word of God, either by adding to it, or taking from it.


Caroline Vimla (16)
Friday September 17, 2010, 3:30 pm
No matter what any scientist may say or prove...there is a power greater above us.That power is called God...

pam w (139)
Friday September 17, 2010, 3:51 pm
Really, Caroline? And you know this because?????

Terry B (649)
Friday September 17, 2010, 4:38 pm
Mea culpa, John.

But I did hear one believer say, "God is black and she is mad."

Vikram, we all know that Armageddon is in Israel, and as some posters on Care2 would have us believe, everything is Israel's fault. -- Atone, it's Yom Kippur.

Terry B (649)
Friday September 17, 2010, 4:41 pm
Caroline is patially correct. There is certainly a power greater above us. But...

That power is called quantum mechanics.

Teresa K (33)
Friday September 17, 2010, 5:57 pm
Thank you Vikram!

. (0)
Friday September 17, 2010, 6:20 pm
If you have breath You can Bet YOUR Bottom that God is Alive and Well!
If you still doubt, try NOT Breathing for say 30 - 60 Minutes and see what happens....

pam w (139)
Friday September 17, 2010, 6:47 pm
Prove to me that breath means a deity is alive and well. PROVE it.

Rebecca T (1)
Friday September 17, 2010, 6:51 pm
Okay, Cherie... so oxygen depletion in the brain is all we need to prove the existence of God? I assume you have tried this and somehow managed to live through it, which would make you a modern day miracle. Kudos to you for proving "His" reality... quick, notify the press and end this debauchery forever! And I thank you, Scarlett, for confirming my earlier statement regarding religious condemnation. Although I have years of volunteerism behind me in animal shelters, nursing homes and soup kitchens, and although all the animal companions I've shared my life with have been rescues, apparently my disbelief of a god and my refusal to accept the Bible or other religious text as truth makes me filthy and unjust. I must thank you for pointing out the grave error of my ways.

pam w (139)
Friday September 17, 2010, 6:56 pm
BINGO! Well said!

Terry B (649)
Friday September 17, 2010, 8:32 pm
According to Cherie, dolphins and whales are closer to god than humans for they can hold their breaths much longer.

I'm glad that's clear. I have no problem worshipping a dolphin as did some of the ancients.

I just did not like the modern selection; the mohammedean alla that wants to kill or greivously maim eveyone who disagrees with him, or the christian god who did the unspeakable to his won kid, or the jewish one who turns people into salt for looking around and plays dirty tricks on ole men? Maybe the mormon one who likes young girls in quantity and claims people of colour got that way because of their sins.

There is a great word in German for all of these superstitions: QUATSCH!

pam w (139)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 6:14 am
Terry, Terry, Terry.....I just can't send you anymore stars. Consider yourself in the middle of a lovely green GLOW, ok?

Freya H (357)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 8:50 am
Kudos to Hawking for taking a stand in favor of reason and logic! It is time for us to accept that natural forces - not some deity or another - created the Cosmos. The trouble with insisting on a deity is one forgets that said deity had to come from somewhere. How could a god complex and intelligent enough to create an entire universe possibly have popped up out of nothing?

Terry B (649)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 10:48 am
Thanks, Pam ---> green glow, eh? Maybe I am god, then, worthy successor to Mo Hammod, Joseph Smith Jr., and Jim Jones.

Know all ye failthful that god is bald, fat, rides a Schwinn, and is addicted to Kenyan coffee. Now get with the program or off with your heads (stole that last bit from allah).

Michela M (3964)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 10:54 am
Noted!! Thanks!! Ciao!! Michela

Sheryl G (360)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 3:19 pm
The line in the article said it all for me: Perhaps acceptance of ignorance is the way to find all the answers.

Remember people......Stephen Hawkings is one human being upon this earth. Before he made this book and after he made his book. Will your own personal reality be changed by it? I wouldn't loose any sleep over it one way or another.

pam w (139)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 4:29 pm
Acceptance of ignorance is a disgrace to human intelligence. Acquiring knowledge and experience will naturally change the person and the mind. Anyone unwilling to learn and grow is wasting a brain.

Sheryl G (360)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 4:58 pm
It didn't say to remain ignorant, it said if we accept our ignorance overall within that context, instead of feeling we "know it all" we may find the answers we seek.

Lisa Z (168)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 5:22 pm
My, my! Can we be more tacky & hateful to each other? Whatever your opinion is, maybe its best to just be satisfied within yourselves, instead of clawing each others eyes out in a verbal catfight? >^..^

pam w (139)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 7:32 pm
Lisa...who is clawing out whose eyes? I thought this was a discussion board? I think the answer to ignorance is seeking truth...sometimes, reading the thoughts of others can actually open our minds to new ideas.

Rebecca T (1)
Sunday September 19, 2010, 1:43 pm
Thank you for bringing up that point, Freya. I watched Hawking, his most recent co-author and others discuss this very topic on Larry King the other night. One thing that bothered me was that members of the religious panel asked how something could come from nothing - that this wasn't possible, so didn't that explain God? They themselves did not explain (nor did anyone ask them to) how God him/herself could have come from nothing. Seems like a logical enough question to me.

Vikram Chhabra (394)
Sunday September 19, 2010, 8:27 pm
Thank you all for adding to this discussion with various perspectives and understandings. I Personally believe eventually it is upto each one of us to find the ansers on our own within ourselves.

All conflict is eventually rooted in the various perceptions and disagreements we have with or about others. This world is enormous and there can never be a total concensus. Best is to agree to disagree as friends..:)

Scarlett P (126)
Monday September 20, 2010, 7:49 am
For Rebecca: You need FAITH IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS. There are no good deeds that you can do on your own that will erase the sins that you have committed. Jesus SHED BLOOD for your sins. He came to save you from the GUILT of past sins and the POWER of sin over your life.

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isaiah 64:6)

Matthew 22:36-38 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart, and with ALL thy soul, and with ALL thy mind. THIS is the first and great commandment.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Galatians 2:21)

The Bible teaches that if we could earn our way into heaven, Jesus died for nothing!

"... and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people FROM their sins." (Matt 1:21).
Jesus did not die so that you could keep sinning and go to heaven (this is an heresy that many churches teach). Jesus came to save you from both the GUILT and POWER of sin. Jesus DESTROYED the works of the devil on Calvary (I John 3:8). When you are unsaved, sin has dominion over you. Sin is your boss and you cannot do anything BUT sin. You are justly under the wrath of a holy and just God. Murderers, thieves, fornicators, witches, liars, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God, rebels, and all other spiritual lepers will not inherit the kingdom. The blood of Jesus is the propitiation for our sins. That means the blood took away the guilt of the sins we've committed AND it has ushered us into a Father child relationship with the Lord. Through the blood of Jesus, we are to serve sin no more, rather we serve righteousness.

Again, the Father sent His only begotten Son, Jesus who is God, to die in your place so that us scoundrels can have eternal life. Remember that the wages of sin is death--that is why Jesus died, to pay YOUR wages so you can live. The Lord Jesus Christ was your substitutionary sacrifice. The world's greatest love story is summed up in the following verse--

For God so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)


Rebecca T (1)
Monday September 20, 2010, 8:09 am
Please to do not profess to know what I need or don't need in my own life. If your faith gives you strength and allows you to erase whatever horrible sins you've committed (and apparently just being alive and breathing is a sin in and of itself) so be it. If I choose to think my own independent thoughts and not live my life based on a fairytale, so be it. As Vikram so wisely said, it is best to agree to disagree. Your beliefs have no effect on my personal life, and my non-beliefs should have no effect on yours.

Scarlett P (126)
Monday September 20, 2010, 8:21 am
John 3:36 says, "...he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." You will not make it into heaven on your own "good merits" or by your own conception of who God is and what he should be like. He must be obeyed and worshipped according to his word, the Authorized King James Bible.

Rebecca T (1)
Monday September 20, 2010, 8:40 am
If it soothes you in some way to spew forth quotes from a book I do not believe in, I am happy for you to have found such comfort. However, I will not cater to your neuroses, and that being said, will merely agree to disagree.

Scarlett P (126)
Monday September 20, 2010, 8:51 am
1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2.The same was in the beginning with God.

3.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4.In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5.And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


Michael Masley (4)
Monday September 20, 2010, 2:08 pm
noted and I believe no God without A Goddess, and before that - Light and Energy

pam w (139)
Monday September 20, 2010, 4:40 pm
Proselytizing just doesn't work! It's a ration of crappola, Scarlett.

Ralph R Sutton (56)
Monday September 20, 2010, 7:16 pm
Sorry, Scarlett, but (Hispanic pronunciation) Jesus shed his blood because he was the leader of a group of subversives that were attempting to undermine the Roman rule over the “holy” land. The surviving members of his gang were the ones that made the claim that he died for the sins of everyone; past, present and future. Apparently, Christians took this to mean they could sin at will because (Hispanic pronunciation) Jesus had already died for their sins judging from the countless atrocities against humans they have committed since he was executed for in-sighting civil disobedience.

As for using the bible to prove the existence of god well that just doesn’t work. Circumstantial evidence, unlike hard evidence, requires multiple sources and on that basis you fail to prove the existence of god. You can’t use the other religious text from other than Christian religions because they all have the same origin as the Christian bible; the Sumerian clay cylinders and tablets. Those ancient documents pre-date all religious text/bibles. Both science and religion discount those cylinders and tablets as myths, but every story in every religious text can be found in those myths, every one of them, including those attributed to (Hispanic pronunciation) Jesus.

pam w (139)
Monday September 20, 2010, 7:25 pm
Using the bible to prove the existence of a god is like using the Egyptian book of the dead to prove the existence of Horus, Set and Hathor.

Terry B (649)
Tuesday September 21, 2010, 8:14 am
WTY does THAT mean ---> "Faith in the blood of Jesus"

Faith in blood? Truly Bizarre.

And even the good Rabbi Jehoshua, a.k.a. Jesus, gave up on his murderous old man (Matthew 27:46) crying out where the hell are you when I need you?

I should worship such a creep that would do such an unspeakable thing to his own kid? I think not.

Scarlett P (126)
Wednesday September 22, 2010, 6:49 am
Every creature, plant, human being, the air that fills your lungs, everything is a creation of GOD... That is proof he exist....

Rebecca T (1)
Wednesday September 22, 2010, 7:04 am
Those things are not even close to being proof, and your beliefs that they are do not make it so. Because there are presents under your Christmas tree and because children believe in Santa Claus, does that prove that he exists? At least children begin to question what they're taught to believe as they mature, and do not accept the invisible man who climbs down the chimney as reality. Why is it so much easier to accept an invisible man who sits up in the sky presiding over your life? Because a book told you to? Do you blindly believe everything you read? If I did, I don't know that I'd dare to leave my apartment.

Scarlett P (126)
Wednesday September 22, 2010, 7:09 am
Rebecca I am not blind to the word of GOD... To me he exist and is my everything... I am trying to live my life according to the Word... He gave his only Son so that I might live a worthy life... We all fall short because each day we sin, but he is a loving God... When we fall He is there to pick us up...

Rebecca... The next time you create air, make a plant grow from nothing, create a creature from dirt... Let me know... LOL

Rebecca T (1)
Wednesday September 22, 2010, 9:54 am
Perhaps the next time you blow air, you should make sure it is not quite so hot. And please, by all means, the next time you witness your god creating something from nothing, be sure to let me know. That I would like to see for myself. Please don't spew quotes as a response... I want to SEE it. I actually believe in religious freedom, because without it, the world will continue in turmoil, so I do not deny you your right to believe in that which is far from provability. I simply ask that you do not condemn me, though your religion might tell you to, for not sharing your beliefs. Perhaps you should be more specific in your profile when you say that spreading diversity is of so much importance to you that you chose to put it in all capital letters. I do not wish to sway your beliefs, and I will thank you to not attempt to sway mine - it will not happen.

Scarlett P (126)
Wednesday September 22, 2010, 10:16 am
Believing in God is a matter of faith and if you dont believe in god it doesnt mean that God does not exist it simply means you dont believe in faith... i know this is not 100% proof but "he who has faith does not need proof"

Rebecca T (1)
Wednesday September 22, 2010, 11:04 am
Believing in God also does not prove that "He" exists. Once again, let's agree to disagree.

pam w (139)
Wednesday September 22, 2010, 2:04 pm
Rebecca: "Because there are presents under your Christmas tree and because children believe in Santa Claus, does that prove that he exists?"

++++++++++++++ My favorite post of the day! KUDOS.

Linda Tasa (4)
Tuesday September 28, 2010, 1:26 pm
Holy cow, May I suggest a book written by Neal Donald Walsch "Conversations with God" an uncommon dialogue. Check it out, it may clear up a few issues that have been discussed here. I grew up as a Lutheran, went to church every Sunday for years. Couldn't quite figure it out, so I started to learn about other religions out there. If we could take all the good from each religion and forget about the rules, that we are supposed to follow, we would be a better group of human beings. Human beings, not human doing. It matters who you are, what you feel, not what you are doing. We also have to realize that time moves us forward and living our lives based on something written over 2,000 years ago, in allegory and riddles is silly. Revelation was written that way. How else do you think John could describe atomic bombs & chemical waste. Educate yourself. We are energy & energy never dies. The higher source does not look down on us & judge who we are; for that energy is the source, that makes us all one. There are only 2 energies; love & fear, which do you want to be.

Klaus Peters (14)
Friday October 8, 2010, 7:05 am
We believe and that makes us comfortable. People who do not believe are committing crimes of all sorts and also feel comfortable about it. But when the day of judgement comes, who will feel the best?

Scarlett P (126)
Friday October 8, 2010, 7:19 am
I'm more than comfortable... I'm at peace and when my time here on earth is over... I know I will be with my Lord in Heaven....

Rebecca T (1)
Friday October 8, 2010, 9:06 am
I, too, am more than comfortable. PEOPLE, religious or not, are committing crimes of all sorts. Klaus, if you ever happen to open your eyes to the world around you, I think you'll find that the majority of crimes (including war) are committed and condoned by religious fanatics. Many atrocities in the world are cloaked under the name of God, Allah, etc.
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