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No Need for Intifada, Palestine Can Achieve Goals Peacefully - Abbas to RT


World  (tags: Abbas, Hamas, IDF, Clashes, Conflict, Crime, peace process, Human rights, Israel, Palestine, Middle East, Religion, UN, Violence )

Angelika
- 530 days ago - rt.com
And while Israel continues its illegal settlement activity on occupied territories, Abbas says he is focused on coming to a solution with Tel Aviv through peaceful means - because fighting will only lead to Palestine's destruction. Abbas spoke to RT ..



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Angelika R. (146)
Saturday March 16, 2013, 10:31 am
Palestine has won UN recognition as being a sovereign state, and will now be referred to as the “State of Palestine” on all future UN documents. Palestine’s Mahmoud Abbas calls the move a “major achievement.”

It’s led many to question whether Palestine can now take Israeli crimes against Palestinians to international courts.

In an exclusive interview with RT, Abbas said that while Israel has considered Palestine disputed territories for many years, Tel Aviv will no longer be able to argue who the land belongs to.

And while Israel continues its illegal settlement activity on occupied territories, Abbas says he is focused on coming to a solution with Tel Aviv through peaceful means – because fighting will only lead to Palestine’s destruction.

He added that all Arabs and Muslims are ready to have peace with Israel, and said that Palestine must make sure that Israel and its supporters do not have reason to continue with the current situation.

Abbas spoke to RT Arabic correspondent Salam Musafir during an official visit to Moscow. While in Russia, the leader received a state friendship medal from President Vladimir Putin.

RT: Do you think this medal symbolizes Russia’s continued support of the Palestinian people?

MA: Definitely. This medal symbolizes Russia’s solidarity with Palestine, a long-standing warm friendship between the Russian and the Palestinian people, which started back in Soviet times. We share a similar stance on a number of issues, including those on the UN agenda. The medal is a big honor for all of us.

RT: Starting today, all official UN documents will use a new legal name for Palestine – it will now be the “State of Palestine” instead of the Palestinian National Authority. Many wonder if this could allow Palestine to take the cases of Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians to international courts for the first time ever. What can you say about this?

MA: One of our major achievements is the fact that now our territories are officially called an occupied state. For many years now Israel, supported by many Western countries, has considered Palestine disputed territories. And if the territories are disputed, they could argue about who this land belongs to and to what extent.

Now Israel cannot do this anymore. And we now have the right to become full, permanent members in any international organization. Of course, we are a little behind with this work, but hopefully the ongoing negotiations will result in establishing a sovereign Palestinian state and finding a political settlement. Over the past 4-5 years, Israel has been very stubborn, so we think this decision should be made at the UN. We are still waiting. We hope that these talks will be successful, but then we’ll be able to appeal to international organizations at any point. If these negotiations fail to yield any results, the Palestinian people will have the right to act as they see fit.
‘Israeli settlements key for peace negotiations’

RT: In defiance of international criticism, Israel continues with its illegal settlement activity on occupied territories. Many members of the new Israeli cabinet known for their radical views reside in such territories. How can there be any hope for successful talks in such conditions?

MA: They all think that it is their legal right to expropriate our land, no matter what their actual political platforms are. Even those members of the Israeli government who don’t live on expropriated territories think that it’s still their legitimate right. We are very much concerned about this kind of perception.

It doesn’t matter if the current government stays or goes – the problem of land annexation still remains. According to all international documents, all UN documents, twelve Security Council resolutions, land expropriation and settlement activity are illegal and must be stopped – it has been this way since the 1970s.

The UN Human Rights Council clearly stated that this policy is illegal and demanded a withdrawal of all settlers. If the current Israeli government continues with this rhetoric, there won’t be any negotiations.

RT: Does that mean that Palestinians have no other choice but to start another intifada?

MA: My opinion is that today there’s no need for Palestinians to go back to fighting. The balance of forces is not in our favor, so it will only lead to the country’s destruction. Just look at the Second Intifada and its repercussions. Our people can achieve their goals through peaceful means, like it happened at the UN. But it’s not easy.
The changing role of Hamas

RT: Today, the other part of the Palestinian resistance, Hamas, is increasingly leaning towards a political solution of the problem rather than a military one. Have you noticed the shift?

MA: Yes, we have. Moreover, that’s something we have agreed on. A number of Hamas members support this stance. That’s what we agreed on during our meeting in Cairo, and several months ago at the summit of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation we reaffirmed that the Palestinian people have the right to non-violent resistance. We are going back to the negotiating process. There is no disagreement on this between us and Hamas leaders, though some keep saying that they don’t consider a peaceful solution the only option and don’t rule out military struggle. But all this talk stopped at the Cairo meeting, which was sponsored by the US and Egypt. Now this is Hamas’s official stance. Pay no attention to the odd Hamas members that say different.

RT: Can these odd dissident voices affect the reconciliation process?

MA: No. This is an entirely different topic. We agreed on all the political aspects of the reconciliation. The main thing – and we have agreed on this – will be to set up an interim government with me as its head. So here’s the compromise: after Fayyad’s government stands down, which is what Hamas wanted, I will become the head of the new government, which Hamas has no objections to. They were the ones that insisted I lead the independent interim technocratic government. The next step will be to hold a general election. These are the two main steps of the reconciliation process, and they are being carried out simultaneously. That’s what we agreed on, but I do not know what prevents us from launching the process. That’s all I have to say on this issue.
Expectations from Obama’s visit

RT: Speaking of the US pressure, President Obama is going to visit Israel soon, and on his way, perhaps he’ll pay a brief visit to Palestine as well?

MA: Actually, this will be an official visit to Palestine. He’ll go to Ramallah, where we’ll hold talks. The only thing we don’t know yet is the duration of his stay. We have already planned all the official ceremonies: we’ll greet him at the airport, hold talks, and see him off. That will be a full-fledged official visit – just like the one he will pay to Israel and Jordan.

RT: Who will Obama appeal to – Israelis, or Palestinians, or both?

MA: I hope he will appeal to those who break the law. In his statements, President Obama has repeatedly voiced his opposition to illegal land expropriation, and we think he’s right. Now all that remains is to translate words into action. I have always asked Americans and Europeans to tell me if there has been a single miscalculation on my part in domestic or foreign policies over eight years – while Israel makes mistakes every day. So why don’t you let them know?

RT: Do you think that Hamas is also under pressure from its ideological allies, the Muslim Brotherhood-backed government in Egypt, a key force in the region?

MA: Egypt has definitely helped to facilitate the Cairo reconciliation deal, and pledged it would take up responsibility in case it was breached. Until now, Hamas has breached none of the conditions. If someone else smuggles weapons inside the Gaza Strip and Israel targets them, Hamas has nothing to do with it. As I said, Egypt sponsored these agreements and Hamas has been following them. When these questions were discussed in Cairo, Khaled Meshaal signed up to everything. In fact, Egypt didn’t ask for selective compliance; instead, it wanted the parties to abide by the obligations in full. Now that Meshaal has signed up to these agreements, he should stick to them – and this has nothing to do with pressure.

RT: What do you think of Egypt’s role today as opposed to the past?

MA: Egypt is playing the same role as before. What I mean is that it has always stood for the Palestinian resistance. Given its geographic location, its history, its international influence, there is no way for Egypt to stop supporting Palestine – it has been on our side throughout its history. It has a strategic interest in resolving the Palestinian issue. It has always been a top priority for Egyptians – regardless of who is in power: Mubarak or Sadat or the incumbent leadership. It’s as crucial to our cause as Mount Horeb is to the Muslims.

RT: The EU is said to be considering a move to take Hamas off the list of terrorist organizations. Do you think that this may be an attempt to legitimize the Hamas-led government?

MA: I don’t think so. After the recent developments, the chances are quite high that the Hamas government may be recognized as legitimate. If Hamas is committed to the ceasefire and if it openly pledges to stick to the peaceful popular resistance, I don’t see much difference between their policy and ours. In this case, there is no need to label them as a terrorist organization.

RT: But you didn’t target Israel with rockets….

MA: Neither we nor Hamas did. Not any longer. After the Second Intifada, we decided to give up on armed resistance. And let me be totally frank with you: we don’t want to launch any armed resistance whatsoever. Hamas has said the same. Yes, there were clashes in the past, but they have stopped – and I’m grateful to Allah for that.
Palestine expects the Arab League will keep its promises

RT: What are your expectations of the upcoming Arab League summit in Doha?

MA: There’s only one expectation: I hope the Arab countries will fulfill the obligations they took at the Baghdad summit last year, where they pledged to send 100 million dollars to the Palestinian Authority for security purposes on a monthly basis. Ever since, we have met with foreign ministers, with chairmen of the Arab League committees, as well as the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, next we will talk to the Arab League members at the Doha summit. We are going to tell them, we would greatly appreciate if you kept your promises.

RT: Do I get it right that you never received any assistance?

MA: Correct.

RT: What’s your explanation, then?

MA: I don’t know how to comment on this. I’m not going to talk much about this, but we never received a single dollar. The Arab League Secretary General put so much effort into this, but it was all in vain.

RT: Recently a delegation of four Foreign Ministers of Arab countries, led by the Secretary General of Arab League, visited Moscow. During the meeting the Arab Ministers told Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov that Russia should dissociate from the Middle East quartet of international mediators. The Arabs consider it incompetent. Would you agree with that?

MA: No. We think that the quartet has to assume a more active stance, perhaps even include new members. If the quartet ceases to exist, though, what’s going to replace it? During Arab League summits, a lot of Arab countries proposed to exclude the Arab Peace Initiative from the existing legal framework for a peace settlement. We were against it, because we don’t see any alternative. Just think about it. There are three possibilities: war; no war, no peace; and peace. Do the Arabs want to go to war? No. If there is no war, but no peace, it will only bring more misery. The Arab Peace Initiative introduces opportunities to secure peace. So why not use it in the talks with Israel? I think such things about the Arab Peace Initiative are said on the spur of the moment. As I said, the only alternative to the Initiative is war. But I am convinced that no one wants that. The time for wars is over. If the war starts, God only knows what kind of ramifications it will have. That’s why we advocate peace, and only peace.

How can we secure peace? We now have a viable initiative, for the first time since 1948. Israel hasn’t responded to it yet, and the Arabs didn’t bother to promote it, hammer it home to the Israelis and the Americans. No Arab state took the trouble to tell the world, “Here’s the Arab Peace Initiative, please read it – it’s only one page long”. Then many people could have realized that yes, it is, in fact, a peace initiative. We tried to circulate it via the mass media in different countries, including Russia, the EU, the US, China, and Israel. But our resources are limited. We managed to publish the text of the Initiative only once. But if the Arabs had been serious, they would have made sure that mass media all over the world buzzed about the Arab Peace Initiative. The idea is simple: if Israel refused to adopt the Initiative, it would be crystal clear who is obstructing the peace process in the Middle East. The international community could have cornered Israel.

RT: Yes, maybe that’s why Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said at that meeting with the Arab foreign ministers that Arab countries do not put enough pressure on their Western and American friends to advance existing initiatives?

MA: We don’t want any pressure. Nobody can put pressure on anyone at the moment – neither Arabs nor other stakeholders. Even the Americans could not put pressure on anyone. There’s much difference between pressure and noble intentions. You should try to convince others through friendly talks and constructive discussions. Pressure is very unlikely to yield positive results. I will give you a simple example. During the UN vote on the status of Palestine, we got the support of 138 states, including 20 European countries. We also consider those 41 states that abstained from the vote our supporters. Israel only had 9 countries on its side. So even though we don’t have weapons, don’t have oil or other resources, we can achieve something. We were able to convince the world that the truth is on our side. And that’s why countries voted for us. Why aren’t our Arab brothers doing anything to help us capitalize on this broad international support?

RT: The Arab brothers are saying that Israel is being stubborn, and they can’t do anything about it.

MA: That’s true, the Israelis are very stubborn. But you can challenge them over it. And there’s only one way to do it – to use the Arab peace initiative for that. The whole world is urging Israel to withdraw from the occupied Arab territories, right?

All Arabs and all Muslims are ready to have peace with Israel. Arabs are not going to attack Israel after it withdraws from the occupied territories. We have to make sure that Israel and its supporters do not have any reason to continue with the current situation. Right now Israel’s President and Prime Minister have opposing approaches. The president says, “Yes, we have Palestinian partners in the peace process, and it is possible to reach a two-state solution.” But the Prime Minister is against this approach. So there are people who we could have a dialogue with, we could try to convince them. But there are also those who force us to exhibit a different kind of behavior. We need to expose them. It is not enough to keep telling the Israelis that they are doing wrong by us, violating our rights. But so far our Arab brothers just declared that Israel is not interested in the peace process, therefore we, Arabs, are not going to do anything.
‘Palestinian refugees in Syria should stay away from conflict’

RT: What are the challenges facing Palestinian refugees in Syria’s Yarmouk Camp? What do you do to have their needs addressed?

MA: We share the same attitude with the leaders of all Palestinian organizations regarding the recent uprisings in Arab countries: Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, and Syria. We do not interfere in those nations’ domestic affairs. When unrest erupted in Tunisia, and then in Syria, all of us were strongly in favor of not getting involved. I met with all the leaders of Syria’s Palestinians, advising them to stay away from the Syrian infighting, because that is a strictly domestic issue. That first visit of ours produced positive results: for about 18 months, Syria’s Palestinian camps remained absolutely safe. In line with the well-known utterance of the Prophet, [“He who enters Abu Sufyan’s home will be safe,”] Palestinian camps acquired a similar reputation: “He who enters a Palestinian camp will be safe.”

But unfortunately, unrest and violence suddenly broke out in Yarmouk Camp. A split emerged among the Palestinians, and with it trouble. Some people resorted to arms, and others chose to move elsewhere. About a month ago, I ordered another delegation to go to Syria. I told our Palestinian brothers that we must stay out of it, that we should not become a party in this conflict. And we’ll pay more visits to Syria if we need to, because we don’t want Palestinians to get involved in all this carnage and destruction.

Palestinians who are fleeing Syria today will not find refuge in any other country. They came to Syria as refugees to start with, and now they are supposed to either stay in this country or go home. This is a dangerous situation, and we hope that the crisis will be resolved, or at least will wind down soon.

RT: But those refugees cannot go back to Palestine?

MA: That’s right, they can’t go home right now. Some did earlier, though. Between 1994 – the year the Palestinian Authority was established – and 2000, some 1.5 million Palestinians returned to Palestine.

RT: Is there anyone willing to go home at the moment?

MA: No. Now, that would be a difficult thing to do.

RT: Because of Israeli actions?

MA: Exactly, because of Israeli actions. The Israelis have sealed the border crossings, even though we had previously agreed that they should remain open. In doing that, Israel broke an earlier arrangement with us for no legitimate reason, like it has done so many times in the past. We have been unable to persuade them that they are making a mistake.

We have an agreement on prisoner exchange with the Israelis, but they won’t hand over Palestinian prisoners to us. They collect taxes for us and retain a certain share of the money, but they perpetually fail to transfer the rest of it to us on time.

RT: Have you looked into the Russian medics’ preliminary conclusion on the tests of Yasser Arafat’s recently exhumed remains?

MA: I haven’t yet. Besides the Russian experts, the tests are being administered by Swiss and French medics – that makes three groups of experts in total. The Swiss and the French delegations are still doing research and haven’t submitted their verdicts yet. Our own medical, legal and political work groups are waiting for those expert assessments. As soon as we have a conclusion, we’ll have it published.

RT: Thank you very much, Mr. President.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday March 16, 2013, 11:22 am

This could mean, at last a real move toward peace. It will not happen over night, more fighting will happen, but at least now the two are on equal footing. I think both the Israelis and the Palestinians want to live their lives in peace and have their leaders speak a language of peace.
 

Allan Yorkowitz (453)
Saturday March 16, 2013, 11:49 am
As this UN declaration gave Palestine a state, what are its borders? What is its capital? what is it's population? Can it's declaration of its constitution be viewed anywhere? What is the name of its ruling party?Does it have a separate party, or is it just another Middle Eastern one party system?
 

Roxy H. (340)
Saturday March 16, 2013, 12:10 pm
ty
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Saturday March 16, 2013, 1:16 pm
Abbas may be right but can Israel do its part. I doubt it. Peace needs brave leaders to achieve but Netanyahu has proven more than once that he isn't that sort of leaders. His connections with settlers are much stronger than those with peace lovers. Only brave leaders can achieve peace.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Saturday March 16, 2013, 1:20 pm
Allan
Israel has been created since 1948. It is about to be 65 years old.what are its borders? What is its capital? what is it's population? Can it's declaration of its constitution be viewed anywhere?
 

Betsy Bee (1047)
Saturday March 16, 2013, 6:39 pm
Between this move and the hunger strikers, most of the world has to be in sympathy. Look how much Bobby Sands,. Francis Hughes, and the eight other 1981 hunger strikers in Belfast accomplished. Great posting, Angelika.
 

Tim C. (1828)
Sunday March 17, 2013, 9:45 am
thanks
 

Allan Yorkowitz (453)
Sunday March 17, 2013, 10:33 am
Abdessalam: Israel's borders are clearly defined. It's occupying territory are also defined. YES, Israel has a constitution. It's capital, Jerusalem; and it always will be. As for it's population. I don't have that in hand. I don't know how many Israeli citizens there are....do you think the Palestinians know how many there are in their new "nation'?
 

Lois Jordan (55)
Sunday March 17, 2013, 1:35 pm
Thanks, Angelika. Glad to read that the Palestinians will not go back to fighting, are giving up armed resistance and are sticking with popular peaceful resistance. If Israel then chooses to use forceful and violent methods against them, all the world will be able to see who the bully is....although it's been clear to many of us for some time. Why has Netanyahu been so aggressive, closed-minded and contentious? I guess I signed some petitions supporting a two-state solution awhile back, and ended up on Jewish Voice For Peace mailing list along with some others. Their statements indicate that most of the people of both of these countries want peace and a 2 state solution....it's now the leaders of Israel who look like warmongering ***holes.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Sunday March 17, 2013, 1:53 pm
@ Lois - " If Israel then chooses to use forceful and violent methods against them, all the world will be able to see who the bully is." -
Please be reminded that all the world has been seeing this already, on a daily basis ever since the ceasefire after Pillar of Defense and after Palestinians ended their violence, unlike the Israeli side.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Sunday March 17, 2013, 2:17 pm
Allan
I am sorry to see that your information about the Zionist entity is not right.
1 - Israel hasn't a written constitution .
2 - Israel failed to present a map of Israel even to USA.
3 - Tel Aviv is its capital not Jerusalem. No single UN member state acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel's capital. According to UN resolutions it is an occupied territory.
As soon as Israeli occupation ends,the Palestinians will be able to define the exact number of their nation beside those who are in diaspora .
 

Devon Leonard (54)
Sunday March 17, 2013, 2:30 pm
I am for peace.
 

Birgit W. (144)
Sunday March 17, 2013, 4:37 pm
Noted
 

Aurea Walker (192)
Sunday March 17, 2013, 8:29 pm
Thank you angelika for a very informative article.I pray to the power that be that this will truly pave a way for some sort of respect, understanding and acceptance on both sides! Enough needless blood has been shed on the sands of this birthplace of 3 religions.
 

Stan B. (124)
Monday March 18, 2013, 1:50 am
What a pity the Palestinians didn't work this out 65 years ago. Imagine how many innocent lives would have been saved, how many wars could have been avoided, how a viable Palestinian state could have been established and how much more enjoyable air travel would be without the intense security caused by Palestinian terrorists.
They've never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
 

Ge M. (217)
Monday March 18, 2013, 10:56 am
I must admit I have never read so much inaccurate garbage which, of course, anti-Semites such as Angelika and Abdesalam would accept as truth. Angelika will refuse to discuss anything relating to the news article she says is rude nor will she discuss anything that relates to it so is clearly saying that the truth is unacceptable.

To start with, Israel came into existence under an agreed mandate by both the League of Nations and the United Nations. The Arabs had previously refused to accept any land in that country and so have NO legitimate claim to any of Israel. In fact, the Palestinians did not come into exitence until 1967 after the Arab nations had lost many wars against Israel. The interesting part of the claim of Arafat is that he was not a Palestinian but an Egyptian. So Abdesalam, why was an Egyptian controlling Palestinians, a people that had not previously existed?

The shape of Israel under the mandate was roughly what it is today. The shape prior to the 1967 War was due to the illegal holding of Gaza by Egypt and Judea and Samaria by Jordan. Why was it illegal? Well, undr international law NO country may hold land from another country taken by war. So, we see that legally both Gaza and Judea/Samaria belong to Israel. There are no illegal settlements and no occupied territory.

Then we look at the people living in Gaza. They are abused by the PLO run by Abbas and Hamas. Now, we alll know that Hamas wants peace - what a joke. This is their charter

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

This is from the beginning of their charter

"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

This clearly shows that Hamas has no intention of having peace with Israel.

This is the PLO/Palestinian National Chater http://www.iris.org.il/plochart.htm

Article 1: Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

Article 2: Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Article 3: The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny after achieving the liberation of their country in accordance with their wishes and entirely of their own accord and will.

Article 4: The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from parents to children. The Zionist occupation and the dispersal of the Palestinian Arab people, through the disasters which befell them, do not make them lose their Palestinian identity and their membership in the Palestinian community, nor do they negate them.

Article 5: The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father - whether inside Palestine or outside it - is also a Palestinian.

Article 6: The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians.

Article 7: That there is a Palestinian community and that it has material, spiritual, and historical connection with Palestine are indisputable facts. It is a national duty to bring up individual Palestinians in an Arab revolutionary manner. All means of information and education must be adopted in order to acquaint the Palestinian with his country in the most profound manner, both spiritual and material, that is possible. He must be prepared for the armed struggle and ready to sacrifice his wealth and his life in order to win back his homeland and bring about its liberation.

Article 8: The phase in their history, through which the Palestinian people are now living, is that of national (watani) struggle for the liberation of Palestine. Thus the conflicts among the Palestinian national forces are secondary, and should be ended for the sake of the basic conflict that exists between the forces of Zionism and of imperialism on the one hand, and the Palestinian Arab people on the other. On this basis the Palestinian masses, regardless of whether they are residing in the national homeland or in diaspora (mahajir) constitute - both their organizations and the individuals - one national front working for the retrieval of Palestine and its liberation through armed struggle.

Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

Article 10: Commando action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war. This requires its escalation, comprehensiveness, and the mobilization of all the Palestinian popular and educational efforts and their organization and involvement in the armed Palestinian revolution. It also requires the achieving of unity for the national (watani) struggle among the different groupings of the Palestinian people, and between the Palestinian people and the Arab masses, so as to secure the continuation of the revolution, its escalation, and victory.

I have only put the first 10 articles which clearly show that they will not recognise Israel and require its destruction. However, the many following articles continue in this vein. Arafat used to wear his uniform with a badge of Palestine which was exactly the same shape as Israel......

And then Abdesalam, the Egyptian Muslim, condemns Israel. Yet his own country is killing, raping and abusing Coptic Christians yet I have never seen him speak out. His countrymen have now been given permission to abuse innocent tourists, nice one. He can marry a little girl,have a slave, rape a white woman and beat up or kill a Christian and no-one will raise an eyebrow. Interesting how the Muslim Brotherhood has progressed. But after seeing the Palestinian and Hamas Charters, not surprising.





 

Ge M. (217)
Monday March 18, 2013, 10:58 am
In other words, no-one with any intelligence would believe a word that Abbas says especially as he will denounce his comments in a few days in Arabic.
 

Ge M. (217)
Monday March 18, 2013, 12:36 pm
I would also add that the UN had no right to recognise Palestine in any way as Abbas had breached the Camp David agreement and has not made any effort to reach a peace agreement.

Nobel Peace Laureate Tells U.N. Council: ‘Your inquiry is wrong, your report undermines peace, stop the selectivity against Israel’

GENEVA, March 18, 2013 - Nobel Peace Laureate David Trimble, member of the British House of Lords, took the floor this morning at the UN Human Rights Council—in a debate with its commission of inquiry into Israeli settlements—to deliver the following statement on behalf of the Geneva human rights group UN Watch, which also organized a UN press conference where Lord Trimble addressed the international media.

UN Watch statement delivered by The Right Honourable Lord David Trimble, in the UN Human Rights Council debate on Israeli Settlements, 18 March 2013
Thank you, Mr. President.

On receiving the Nobel Peace Prize 15 years ago, I cited Edmund Burke. My experience in Northern Ireland underlines his insistence that every idea or proposal derives its merit from circumstance, which carries more weight than abstraction and ideology.

I am a firm believer in a two-state solution, which will require difficult compromises.
Today was Hate Israel Day at the UN—click here for full story.
_______

UNHRC set to debate West Bank settlement report
By Tovah Lazaroff
03/18/2013
The United Nations Human Rights Council will on Monday debate a report by its fact-finding mission on West Bank settlements, which concluded that Israel could be culpable for building over the pre-1967 lines before the International Criminal Court, if the Palestinians become party to the Rome Statute. ...
Hillel Neuer, the executive director of the Geneva-based non-governmental organization UN Watch, said that the fact-finding mission was a “sham.”
“Despite claims to objectivity, the resolution creating the inquiry had determined the verdict from the start, declaring that settlements constituted ‘very serious violations’ of Palestinians’ human rights. Fact finding was only to support this foregone conclusion,” he said.
“The report is maliciously one-sided and its conclusions extreme. Its narrative omits any reference to terrorism from Palestinian areas, making Israeli security measures appear malevolent. UN Watch’s submission on highly relevant West Bank social, economic and security matters – quoting UN and World Bank reports – was completely ignored.” More
________
For an expert legal analysis of the UN settlements report by JCPA's Amb. Alan Baker, click here.

This report, however, does not help. By urging the removal of all settlers living beyond the green line, the report is inconsistent with Security Council Resolution 242, endorsed by the Council decision establishing this commission.

It could lead to the utterly grotesque consequence that the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem should be returned to the desolate condition that existed between 1948 and 1967.

The Report’s conclusions address one of the issues in a high handed and one-sided manner. It is not the necessary comprehensive agreement; nor is it part of one. It amounts to a unilateral measure of the sort opposed by the international community.

I have to say that the very idea of this inquiry is wrong. Negotiations can only be by the Israelis and the Palestinians. Others at best can play a helpful role. But outside bodies purporting to make authoritative pronouncements on major issues over the heads of the parties can only undermine and subvert the peace process.

This report abandons principles established in the Clinton Camp David talks, and applied in the Road Map and the Olmert-Abbas talks.

The United Nations and its human rights bodies should all be working with others to advance the cause of peace, not to hinder it.

I regret to say that the Council displays the same selectivity that led to the abolition of the earlier Commission. I urge you to heed the criticism by successive UN secretary-generals of this Council’s habit of singling out only one specific country, to the exclusion of virtually everything else.

Thank you, Mr. President.
 

Ge M. (217)
Monday March 18, 2013, 1:32 pm
Allan, I totally agree, the capital of Israel is Jerusalem and it is the capital that they have decided on. After all, every other country has selected their capital and Israel has the same right as Egypt, Argentina, America, Saudi Arabia and Australia, to name but few, to use their own choice. Who on earth is Abdesalam to say that it isn't Israel's right as a sovereign nation to determine their capital?
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Monday March 18, 2013, 2:37 pm
Gillian as usual shows how she contradicts herself. While she says that the Zionist entity " came into existence under an agreed mandate by both the League of Nations and the United Nations .",she ignores all United Nations resolutions about the Palestinians rights and Jerusalem. So When thing satisfy Israel's greed ,she welcomes UN decisions but when it comes to blaming Israel or against Israel it is the worst international organization. It is okay when Israel is created in UN as she says but when it comes to UN refusal of of an Israeli unilateral decision to annex east Jerusalem to Israel the UN is the devil. When it comes to UN accepting Palestine as a non member state ,it is the end of the world. This unbalanced thinking shows her sick mentality.This is her problem though I have advised her several times to see a psychiatric.

 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Monday March 18, 2013, 2:40 pm
Here are parts of UN human rights council she is referring to and Zionists are criticizing because it doesn't please the Zionist entity :

Implications of Israeli settlements on the rights of Palestinians
================================================

31. The mission notes that the impact of settlements on the human rights of the Palestinians is manifested in various forms and ways. These are interrelated, forming part of an overall pattern. The structure of the report is intended to reflect this reality.
A. Right to self-determination
32. The mission notes that, in its resolution 67/19, the General Assembly reaffirmed ―the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967‖.
33. In a report on the issue, the Secretary-General warned that (the demographic and territorial presence of the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory was put at risk by the continued transfer by Israel, the occupying Power, of its population into the occupied territory, observing that Israel had transferred approximately 8 per cent of its citizens into the Occupied Palestinian Territory since the 1970s. He also recalled that the International Court of Justice concluded that the construction of the wall, coupled with the establishment of Israeli settlements, was altering the demographic composition of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and thus was severely impeding the exercise by the Palestinian people of their right to self-determination.19
34. The establishment of the settlements and the creation of dozens of enclaves have also caused the fragmentation of the West Bank. The mission heard that the establishment
http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/ocha%20opt%20settlements%20FactSheet%20December%202012%20english.pdf.
16 Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, ―East Jerusalem: Key Humanitarian Concerns‖, Update December 2011. Available from www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_Jerusalem_FactSheet_December_2011_english.pdf
17 Chaim Levinson, ―Israeli government spent NIS 1.1 billion on settlements in 2011, reports show‖, Haaretz, 31 July 2012.
18 ―Like a thief in the night‖ Haaretz editorial, 14 November 2012.
19 A/67/375, para. 12.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Monday March 18, 2013, 2:41 pm
of Ma‘ale Adummim and its expansion has had a much wider significance than the local impact of most settlements by severing territorial continuity between Palestinian communities.20 The Wall ―where it is built or planned, truncates and chops up Palestinian space with ‗fingers‘ extending deep into the West Bank. (…) Its ―route threatens to divide the West Bank into two separate areas and cut off East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank‖.21
35. The Government of Israel has full security and administrative control over the settlement areas, and effectively controls the external borders of the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Regional councils composed exclusively of representatives of Israeli settlers exercise planning functions in settlement areas. Neither the Palestinian Authority nor local Palestinian communities have any control over the governance, administration and planning of these areas.
36. The settlements, including the associated restrictions, impede Palestinian access to and control over their natural resources. In his report, the Secretary-General noted that Palestinians had virtually no control over the water resources in the West Bank.22 Eighty-six per cent of the Jordan Valley and the Dead Sea is under the de facto jurisdiction of the settlement regional councils. Settlements exploit mineral extraction and fertile agricultural lands, denying Palestinians access to their natural resources.
37. In December 2012, the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reported that, while the fenced areas of settlements cover only 3 per cent of the West Bank, in reality 43 per cent of the territory is allocated to local and regional settlement councils.23 There are approximately 150,000 Palestinians living in Area C in close proximity to more than 320,000 Israeli settlers. In East Jerusalem, some 200,000 settlers have been introduced into Palestinian areas with a Palestinian population of about 390,000. The negative impact of Israeli settlements on the right of self-determination of the Palestinian people extends, however, to the Palestinian people as a whole.
38. The mission considers that the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people, including the right to determine how to implement self-determination, the right to have a demographic and territorial presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and the right to permanent sovereignty over natural resources, is clearly being violated by Israel through the existence and ongoing expansion of the settlements. The transfer of Israeli citizens into the Occupied Palestinian Territory, prohibited under international humanitarian law and international criminal law, is a central feature of the practices and policies of Israel.
20 ―The Hidden Agenda: The Establishment and Expansion Plans of Ma‘ale Adummim and their Human Rights Ramifications‖, B‘Tselem, December 2009, available from www.btselem.org/download/200912_maale_adummim_eng.pdf.
21 See ―Arrested Development: the Long Term Impact of Israel‘s Separation Barrier in the West Bank‖, October 2012 (available from http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/201210_arrested_development_eng.pdf), and ―By Hook and by Crook: Israeli Settlement Policy in the West Bank‖, B‘Tselem, July 2010 (available from www.btselem.org/download/201007_by_hook_and_by_crook_eng.pdf).
22 A/67/375, para. 14.
23 Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, ―The Humanitarian Impact of Israeli Settlement Policies‖ (see footnote15).
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Monday March 18, 2013, 2:43 pm
B. Equality and right to non-discrimination
1. Inequality and discrimination in the application of the law
39. Information presented to the mission demonstrates that distinct legal systems exist in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and are applied separately to Israeli settlers and Palestinians. Broadly, Israelis in Area C are subject to Israeli domestic law enforced by the police and courts in Israel. A patchwork of Israeli military orders and Ottoman, British and Jordanian legislation is applied to Palestinians, who are also subject to a military court system with a wide jurisdictional reach.
40. By ―channelling‖ Israeli civil law into the territory of settlements, ―legal zones‖ have been established within the West Bank where Israeli laws apply to settlers in order, for example, to regulate the status and authority of governmental institutions within settlements. These laws do not apply to Palestinians. Other Israeli laws are applied personally to Israelis in the West Bank, giving them preferential legal status over Palestinians. A matrix of military orders applies personally, by law or by practice, only to Palestinians to regulate and control most aspects of daily life, including by restricting an extensive range of rights. Israelis and Palestinians are also treated differently by the same laws; for instance, some military orders designate areas in the Occupied Palestinian Territory as ―closed military zones/areas‖. With the exception of military training or firing zones, only Palestinians are prohibited from entering such areas unless they have a permit, even if the area encompasses Palestinian land, thereby denying Palestinians access to or ownership of land. The so-called ―seam zone‖ is closed to Palestinians, while Israelis and foreign visitors have unrestricted access. Certain other Israeli laws expressly discriminate against Palestinians. In 2012, the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination reiterated its concern about the Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law (Temporary Provision) that suspends, with rare exceptions, family reunification between an Israeli citizen and a person residing in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, with a severe impact on family rights.
41. The mission again noted the extraterritorial personal application of Israeli legislation, with the application of Israeli criminal law to Israelis in the West Bank with respect to offences they allegedly committed there.
42. According to the Secretary-General, lack of accountability permeates all types of acts of violence committed by Israeli settlers against property and persons.24 The situation today closely resembles that described by the inquiry conducted in 1984 into action taken with regard to settler violence headed by the then Israeli Deputy Attorney General, Yehudit Karp. According to Yesh Din, an Israeli non-governmental organization that monitored 869 cases between 2005 and 2012, more than 91 per cent of all investigations concluded into complaints of criminal offences against Palestinian persons and property in the Occupied Palestinian Territory were closed without an indictment being served, mostly owing to investigative failures.25 This is despite the fact that attacks and intimidation by settlers against Palestinians are often carried out in daylight and in the presence of Israeli army or police personnel, who frequently do not stop the violence or are ineffective.
43. The mission was informed that, when acts of violence are committed by Palestinians against settlers, these are appropriately addressed, indicating that the lack of law
24 A/67/375, para. 39.
25 Yesh Din, ―The impact of the settlements on Palestinian rights in the West Bank‖, November 2012, available from www.yesh-din.org/userfiles/file/Position%20Papers/Yesh%20Din%20Position%20to% 20UN%20FF%20Mission.pdf.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Monday March 18, 2013, 2:44 pm
enforcement experienced by Palestinians is largely a matter of political will. Between 90 to 95 per cent of cases against Palestinians are investigated and go to court.
44. The failure to conduct effective investigations and prosecutions of settler violence impedes Palestinians‘ access to an effective remedy. This is compounded by the multiple barriers presented to Palestinians by the court system, including time, cost, language and procedural barriers coupled with inadequate notification of relevant orders and declarations. Fear and lack of confidence in the courts also act as deterrents to seeking redress. Palestinians are also significantly limited from seeking compensation from the State of Israel for certain conduct by its agents pursuant to the Civil Torts (Liability of the State) Law 2005, as amended in 2012.
45. The Supreme Court of Israel sitting as the High Court of Justice does not offer Palestinians a clear avenue for recourse. The High Court has consistently deferred to the Government of Israel on matters relating to the settlements, and has rendered the question of the legality of the settlements non-justiciable. While on occasion the Court has found in favour of Palestinian petitioners, it has both substantially limited its oversight role and provided a legal space in which the settlements have been developed. Additionally, where judicial rulings have favoured the Palestinian petitioners, there is a consistent lack of enforcement of them.
46. Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territory endure a discriminatory application of a military court system that does not comply with international standards of fair trial and administration of justice.26 In testimony to the mission, a witness explained that ―two individuals in the West Bank may commit the same offence. One is investigated by the police in the West Bank and brought before a military court, and can be detained up to eight days without seeing a judge. The Israeli who has done the same is investigated and brought before a civilian judge, and enjoys all the safeguards of a modern criminal process. Both face different penalties. The prevailing legal systems in Occupied Palestinian Territory translate into stark inequality before the law.
47. Palestinians are routinely subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, including administrative detention, mass arrests and incarceration. It is estimated that more than 700,000 Palestinians, including children, have been held in Israeli military detention since the beginning of the occupation, many in prisons located within Israel.27 In 2012, approximately 4,100 Palestinians were in Israeli military detention, of whom 143 were aged between 16 and 18 years, and 21 were below 16 years old.28 It is well documented that the military court system does not ensure Palestinians basic fair trial guarantees, including minimum standards of independence, clear evidentiary or procedural rules, the presumption of innocence or the duty to hear witnesses or examine all material evidence.
48. Most children are arrested at friction points, such as villages near settlements or on roads used by the army or settlers and that run by a Palestinian village. From point of arrest, they face multiple violations of their rights to liberty and security and fair trial through interrogation, arbitrary detention and abuse, trial and sentencing. Approximately 90 per cent of children plead guilty and are given custodial sentences. The mission heard testimony that ―in short, pleading guilty is the quickest way out of the system, whether the
26 See CCPR/CO/78/ISR, para. 12, and CCPR/C/ISR/CO/3, para. 7.
27 A/HRC/7/17, para. 45. See also B‘Tselem, ―Statistics on Palestinians in the custody of Israeli security forces‖ (2008 to 2012).
28 B‘Tselem, ―Statistics on Palestinians‖ (see footnote
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Monday March 18, 2013, 2:45 pm
offence was committed or not.‖ Approximately 60 per cent of Palestinian children serve their sentences inside Israel.29
49. The legal regime of segregation operating in the Occupied Palestinian Territory has enabled the establishment and the consolidation of the settlements through the creation of a privileged legal space for settlements and settlers. It results in daily violations of a multitude of the human rights of the Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including, incontrovertibly, violating their rights to non-discrimination, equality before the law and equal protection of the law.
2. Settlers violence and intimidation
50. All spheres of Palestinian life are being significantly affected by a minority of settlers who are engaged in violence and intimidation with the aim of forcing Palestinians off their land. There was consistency in testimonies with regard to the following facts: attacks and intimidation regularly take place during daylight hours; the identity of perpetrators are well known, or perpetrators could easily be identified; the frequent presence of police and army at the scene; the involvement and presence of settlement security officers; the frequent existence of video and photographic footage of the incidents; and the lack of accountability for the violence.
51. The mission heard testimonies on incidents of settler violence and intimidation dating back to 1973. A report of the Security Council Commission established under resolution 446 (1979)30 drew attention to settler attacks on property and acts of intimidation that restricted access to water and obstructed children‘s schooling. The Commission noted that the intent of these attacks was to pressure Palestinians to leave the land. Palestinian deaths and injuries as a result of settler attacks have been recorded since 1980; the mission notes the statistics compiled by the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs that show that, in the period from 1 July 2011 to 30 June 2012, Israeli settlers injured 147 Palestinians, including 34 children.
52. The mission heard numerous testimonies on violent attacks by settlers, including physical assaults, the use of knives, axes, clubs and other improvised weapons, as well as shootings and the throwing of Molotov cocktails. The testimonies also recounted the psychological impact of intimidation by armed settlers trespassing on Palestinian land, at Palestinian water springs or in the midst of Palestinian neighbourhoods in Hebron and East Jerusalem. In some cases, testimonies described years of violence and intimidation directed at the same Palestinian family living in proximity to settlements that had pushed it to abandon its properties.
53. The mission heard testimony of the impact of settler violence on children, and notes an increasing trend in their death and injuries. In a submission to the mission, Defence of Children International –Palestine had documented 127 cases in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, including four fatalities, since 2008. Settler attacks on schools and harassment of children on their way to school has followed an upward trend since 2010. Testimonies from residents of the village of Al Twanyi describe how children must have Israeli army escorts on their way to and from school to protect them from settler attacks. These escorts are not always provided by the Israeli army or, when provided, are often erratic.
29 See Defense for the Children International – Palestine Section, ―Children prosecuted in Israeli military courts: update‖, 2 October 2012, available from www.dci-palestine.org/documents/children-prosecuted-israeli-military-courts-%E2%80%93-update.
30 S/
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Monday March 18, 2013, 2:46 pm
54. The mission also notes the impact of violence and intimidation on the lives and livelihoods of Palestinian farmers, by preventing the access of Palestinians to their land close to settlements through violence and intimidation; burning, uprooting and attacking Palestinian crops; settlers taking over the land and planting their own crops; and fencing off and building on Palestinian agricultural lands. The olive industry is a primary source of income for Palestinian farmers; the olive harvest is therefore a particularly vulnerable period of the year for Palestinian farmers and their crops.31 From 2005 to 2012, Yesh Din monitored 162 investigations into vandalism against Palestinian trees (predominantly olive trees); only one investigation led to an indictment.32 Figures for 2012 (until mid-October) show that, during that period, more than 7,500 trees had been damaged or destroyed by settlers.33
55. The mission heard testimonies on ―price-tag‖ attacks, a phenomenon considered distinct from other forms of settler violence. The attacks aim at exacting a price on the Palestinian population living close to settlements for any political or legal move that the settlers interpret as being contrary to their interests. The mission understands that the intent is to deter Israeli authorities from taking any action perceived to be against settlers‘ interests while at the same time to provoke Palestinians into a reaction. An-Najah University identified 119 price-tag incidents from 2008 to September 2012.34 The attacks most commonly involve vandalism and the burning of property, cars and houses, and are often accompanied by racist graffiti. The Department of State of the United States of America categorized three price-tag attacks on mosques and a Muslim cemetery as terrorist incidents.35
56. The mission is concerned that specific programmes devised to deal with the impact of settler violence on physical and mental health have had to be developed by non-governmental organizations as a result of the failure of Israeli authorities to stop settler violence and of the persistence of impunity in this regard. The mission notes with particular concern the situation of children and the impact on their development.
57. Violence, verbal and physical abuses, inhumane and degrading treatment, forced evictions, land and property grabbing, the destruction of property and housing and many of the issues for which testimonies and information was gathered gravely affect the right to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health. Depression, anxiety, symptomatic stress, mood disorder and behaviour problems, and post-traumatic stress disorders are some of the most current conditions reported by specialists. Impunity, a feeling of injustice, the recurrence of events and anticipation of renewed abuses, especially on relatives and children, compound these conditions.
31 The Palestinian Ministry of Agriculture estimates that 3.5 million olive trees have been destroyed since the second intifada.
32 Yesh Din, ―Police investigation of vandalization of Palestinian trees in the West Bank‖, October 2012, available from www.yesh-din.org/userfiles/file/datasheets/DS%20Trees%20Oct,%202012%20 Eng.pdf.
33 Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, Olive Harvest Factsheet, October 2012, available from www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_olive_harvest_factsheet_october_2012_english.pdf.
34 An-Najah University, ―Outposts and Price Tag Violence: A Blow upon a Bruise ‖, September 2012, available from www.najah.edu/sites/default/files/shared-uploads/outposts_and_price_tag_violence_-_a_blow_upon_a_bruise_-_sept_2012.pdf.
35 United States Department of State, Country Reports on Terrorism 2011, available from www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2011/.
 

pam w. (191)
Monday March 18, 2013, 2:58 pm
This thread exemplifies the problems of that area....
 

Ge M. (217)
Monday March 18, 2013, 3:57 pm
Abdesalam, he of the country that abuses Christians and refuses to apologise or criticise his own people. He follows a paedophile, a hedonist, a necrophiliac, an untrustworthy bandit who took his daughter-in-law for sex, sexually abused a baby before raping her at 8/9 years. To justify this he stole chunks of Judaism and Christianity. Islam teaches hate of the non-Muslim and that it is acceptable to lie to further its cause.

This is exemplified by the failure of Abdeslam to comment on theongoing murders advocated by his own people. Abdesalam fails to comment on international law or the genocide advocated by Muslims, is it because he doesn't understand it? Or is it because he refuses the truth?

Then he uses the UN Lack of Human Rights council to make comments. I can only assume that he failed to read or understand the statement by David Trimble. The council is dominated by countries who are known for their lack of human rights and they target Israel, a country known for its support of human rights, in an attempt to divert what is happening in their own countries. In fact, despite me commenting on a regular basis about these countries appalling ill treatment of these countries towards Palestinians and providing the proof, he ignores it. In fact, Abdesalam ignores it so much that he refuses to see or acknowledge it in his own country or in any other Muslim controlled country. Does this make Abdesalam a hypocirte or a bigot or both?

And, as for the report, I do understand it better than Abdeslam thinks. The report is known to be biased, inaccurate and prejudiced. But then that is the tool of a Muslim, a lie and inaccurate report. Abdesalam is angry that the lies being told by Muslims are being shown in the glaring light of day.
 

Ge M. (217)
Monday March 18, 2013, 3:59 pm
This is the Muslims idea of peace:

“If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (da’wah) can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them. In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the inmposed tax, jizya. World peace, the final stage of the da’wah is reached only with the conversion or submission of all mankind to Islam.” (Bassam Tibi)
 

Ge M. (217)
Monday March 18, 2013, 4:00 pm
Angelika, which are you going to choose, conversion or becoming a second class citizen and pay taxes for you and your family to live.
 

Stan B. (124)
Monday March 18, 2013, 4:44 pm
I have to laugh at poor Abdessalam's real struggle to actually write the word ISRAEL. He's obviously more comfortable with " The Zionist entity."

Gillian. There's more chance of the Taliban attending an Andre Rieu concert than the Angelikas or Abdessalams of this world recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

BTW. I am no longer recognizing Cairo as the capital of Egypt. Too much sexual abuse of women and persecution of Christians there.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Monday March 18, 2013, 6:17 pm
So, there certainly is enough information out here now and I hope it may serve to see the light and truth to many.
Thanks Abdessalam, even if we knew all this.
There is no cure for brainwashed fanatics, at least not here on C2, so it's no use trying to convince those and it's no need to discuss with them, particularly not when they cannot control their language and their prejudice.
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Monday March 18, 2013, 7:40 pm
If we are to be honest we know that any resolution the UN passes in favour of the P.A is not worth the paper it is written on. Many times the olive branch has been held out by Israel to engender a Peace Agreement and many times that P.A criminal - Abbas has declined to enter into any lasting agreement. Most of the UN members sit with blindfolds over their eyes and plugs in their ears. UNTIL THE PALESTINIANS AGREE TO ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO EXIST - THE STATUS QUO WILL REMAIN. I do not believe anything Abbas says....his tongue is forked. Am also at a loss as to the continued ignorance of the M.E situation by Angelika, Abdessalaam et al......who prefer to have their minds clouded by the utter tripe they prefer to ingest.
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Monday March 18, 2013, 11:01 pm
Abdessalam - even Obama acknowledged that JERUSALEM is the capital of Israel. Who are you to say otherwise? Did you not learn that at school? We certainly did and nothing has changed!!!!!!!! With the appaliling human rights record of your fatherland - Egypt - you should be putting things to rights there -eg. until your own house is in order DO NOT PRESUME TO CRITICISE A COUNTRY THAT HAS A FAR SUPERIOR HUMAN RIGHTS CHARTER/RECORD THAN EGYPT CAN EVER HOPE FOR.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Monday March 18, 2013, 11:27 pm
Here's a post I would highly recommend for reading. it is NOT from some obscure blog site but from the NYT and by an awarded author, Ben Ehrenreich. Perhaps gain a dose of reality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/magazine/is-this-where-the-third-intifada-will-start.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&
http://www.care2.com/news/member/263512285/3549624


 

Fred H. (31)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 2:14 am
I'm more interested in what he says to his Arab audiences. So far, those "goals" are still to eradicate the Jewish homeland.
 

Tommy S. (11)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 4:16 am
I have no doubt that the delusionists also think that Alice's "wonderland" and Gullivers "lilliput" are real countries

1) There never was a Palestinian state or a Palestinian nation. There are no Palestinian people, per se. Rather, these are Arabs living in a region that historically has been called many things, including "Palestine."

2) Israel did not go to war against a Palestinian state and occupy its land. Rather, Israel was attacked by six Arab countries at once. She defended herself, defeated her attackers, and won the so-called territories, not from the Palestinians, but from Jordan and Egypt.

3) Jerusalem was never the capital of any state but Israel. It was certainly never the capital of a country that never existed. Why should the Palestinians get any part of it? Because they want it? Because they have terrorists?

4) Jerusalem, under the current Israeli control, is a free and open city. Israel, as a democracy, guarantees freedom of religion within its borders. Contrast this fact with areas that have come under Palestinian occupation. What percentage of Christians have left in recent years because they cannot stand the harassment and persecution?

5) Most Arabs living in Palestine today are not indigenous to the region. It was not until after the Jews had changed deserts and swamps into a productive and thriving land that the Arabs started migrating there. Arafat himself was born and raised in Cairo, Egypt. Did you know that?

The belief that giving the Palestinians a state will bring peace is a delusion. The truth is that they want it all. The short-term goal is a state consisting of the West Bank and Gaza. The long-term goal is a state which includes all of "historical Palestine," including Jordan.


Once you start believing that palestine is a country and believe that the barbarians are somehow entitled to it,you have lost all reason--- sadly reason is a thing of distant memory for the delusionists as is displayed by their rectal fortitude



 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 5:23 am
Guys, Abdesalam suffers from a medical condition called selective reading and understanding. He refuses to recognise the right of Israel to exist under the borders originally drawn up but recognises the right of Israel to be continually abused and lied about by the Muslim controlled countries which control the lack of human rights council.

Angelika has intimated that both the Hamas and Palestinian Charters are from obscure websites, I was not aware that Yale was obscure but, as Angleika lives in the US, I can only assume that she knows better! Or is it the satement of Bassam Tibi? However, these charters clearly state the objectives of their future. A newspaper article doesn't. In fact, I'm surprised to see any comment by Angelika as she believes that a discussion actually turns the news item into anything but.
 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 5:29 am
Angelika, Edinburgh University, like Yale, is an obscure university in Scotland (that is part of Europe which is the big land mass to your right) and is currently ranked as 36 amongst the best universities of the world.

The Committee
Edinburgh University Student Association

May I be permitted to say a few words to members of the EUSA? I am an Edinburgh graduate (MA 1975) who studied Persian, Arabic and Islamic History in Buccleuch Place under William Montgomery Watt and Laurence Elwell Sutton, two of Britain’s great Middle East experts in their day. I later went on to do a PhD at Cambridge and to teach Arabic and Islamic Studies at Newcastle University. Naturally, I am the author of several books and hundreds of articles in this field.

I say all that to show that I am well informed in Middle Eastern affairs and that, for that reason, I am shocked and disheartened by the EUSA motion and vote. I am shocked for a simple reason: there is not and has never been a system of apartheid in Israel. That is not my opinion, that is fact that can be tested against reality by any Edinburgh student, should he or she choose to visit Israel to see for themselves.

Let me spell this out, since I have the impression that those members of EUSA who voted for this motion are absolutely clueless in matters concerning Israel, and that they are, in all likelihood, the victims of extremely biased propaganda coming from the anti-Israel lobby. Being anti-Israel is not in itself objectionable. But I’m not talking about ordinary criticism of Israel. I’m speaking of a hatred that permits itself no boundaries in the lies and myths it pours out. Thus, Israel is repeatedly referred to as a ‘Nazi’ state. In what sense is this true, even as a metaphor? Where are the Israeli concentration camps? The einzatsgruppen? The SS? The Nüremberg Laws? The Final Solution? None of these things nor anything remotely resembling them exists in Israel, precisely because the Jews, more than anyone on earth, understand what Nazism stood for. It is claimed that there has been an Israeli Holocaust in Gaza (or elsewhere). Where? When? No honest historian would treat that claim with anything but the contempt it deserves. But calling Jews Nazis and saying they have committed a Holocaust is as basic a way to subvert historical fact as anything I can think of.

Likewise apartheid. For apartheid to exist, there would have to be a situation that closely resembled things in South Africa under the apartheid regime. Unfortunately for those who believe this, a weekend in any part of Israel would be enough to show how ridiculous the claim is. That a body of university students actually fell for this and voted on it is a sad comment on the state of modern education. The most obvious focus for apartheid would be the country’s 20% Arab population. Under Israeli law, Arab Israelis have exactly the same rights as Jews or anyone else; Muslims have the same rights as Jews or Christians; Baha’is, severely persecuted in Iran, flourish in Israel, where they have their world centre; Ahmadi Muslims, severely persecuted in Pakistan and elsewhere, are kept safe by Israel; the holy places of all religions are protected under a specific Israeli law. Arabs form 20% of the university population (an exact echo of their percentage in the general population). In Iran, the Baha’is (the largest religious minority) are forbidden to study in any university or to run their own universities: why aren’t your members boycotting Iran?

Arabs in Israel can go anywhere they want, unlike blacks in apartheid South Africa. They use public transport, they eat in restaurants, they go to swimming pools, they use libraries, they go to cinemas alongside Jews – something no blacks could do in South Africa. Israeli hospitals not only treat Jews and Arabs, they also treat Palestinians from Gaza or the West Bank. On the same wards, in the same operating theatres.

In Israel, women have the same rights as men: there is no gender apartheid. Gay men and women face no restrictions, and Palestinian gays often escape into Israel, knowing they may be killed at home. It seems bizarre to me that LGBT groups call for a boycott of Israel and say nothing about countries like Iran, where gay men are hanged or stoned to death. That illustrates a mindset that beggars belief. Intelligent students thinking it’s better to be silent about regimes that kill gay people, but good to condemn the only country in the Middle East that rescues and protects gay people. Is that supposed to be a sick joke?

University is supposed to be about learning to use your brain, to think rationally, to examine evidence, to reach conclusions based on solid evidence, to compare sources, to weigh up one view against one or more others. If the best Edinburgh can now produce are students who have no idea how to do any of these things, then the future is bleak. I do not object to well documented criticism of Israel. I do object when supposedly intelligent people single the Jewish state out above states that are horrific in their treatment of their populations. We are going through the biggest upheaval in the Middle East since the 7th and 8th centuries, and it’s clear that Arabs and Iranians are rebelling against terrifying regimes that fight back by killing their own citizens. Israeli citizens, Jews and Arabs alike, do not rebel (though they are free to protest). Yet Edinburgh students mount no demonstrations and call for no boycotts against Libya, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Iran. They prefer to make false accusations against one of the world’s freest countries, the only country in the Middle East that has taken in Darfur refugees, the only country in the Middle East that gives refuge to gay men and women, the only country in the Middle East that protects the Baha’is... Need I go on? The imbalance is perceptible, and it sheds no credit on anyone who voted for this boycott.

I ask you to show some common sense. Get information from the Israeli embassy. Ask for some speakers. Listen to more than one side. Do not make your minds up until you have given a fair hearing to both parties. You have a duty to your students, and that is to protect them from one-sided argument. They are not at university to be propagandized. And they are certainly not there to be tricked into anti-Semitism by punishing one country among all the countries of the world, which happens to be the only Jewish state. If there had been a single Jewish state in the 1930s (which, sadly, there was not), don’t you think Adolf Hitler would have decided to boycott it? Of course he would, and he would not have stopped there. Your generation has a duty to ensure that the perennial racism of anti-Semitism never sets down roots among you. Today, however, there are clear signs that it has done so and is putting down more. You have a chance to avert a very great evil, simply by using reason and a sense of fair play. Please tell me that this makes sense to you. I have given you some of the evidence. It’s up to you to find out more.

Yours sincerely,

Dr. Denis MacEoin
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 6:12 am
Stan writes " I am no longer recognizing Cairo as the capital of Egypt."

Who is Stan ? Some one that had been caught stealing another person's intellectual property ? Instead of being ashamed he tries to cover his crime . I have told him before that the best way I deal with ignorants is to neglect them, if they continue showing their ignorance I simply let them bark .So Stan you can continue .....
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 7:33 am
This thread is about an interview on RT tv. with Abu-Mazen ( Abbas) Chairman of the Palestinian Authority where he said that there is no need for a new Intefada and that Palestinians can achieve goals peacefully . This simply is a call for peace and must be appreciated by peace mongers..My first comment on these news , based on previous history of Israel's PM , was on Saturday March 16, 2013, 1:16 pm when I wrote " Abbas may be right but can Israel do its part. I doubt it. Peace needs brave leaders to achieve but Netanyahu has proven more than once that he isn't that sort of leaders. His connections with settlers are much stronger than those with peace lovers. Only brave leaders can achieve peace."

On the same day I responded to Allan Yorkwitz attack on Palestinians and asked him few questions. I wrote
" Allan
Israel has been created since 1948. It is about to be 65 years old.what are its borders? What is its capital? what is it's population? Can it's declaration of its constitution be viewed anywhere? "

On Sunday March 17, 2013, 2:17 pm, I commented on his reply saying :
" Allan
I am sorry to see that your information about the Zionist entity is not right.
1 - Israel hasn't a written constitution .
2 - Israel failed to present a map of Israel even to USA.
3 - Tel Aviv is its capital not Jerusalem. No single UN member state acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel's capital. According to UN resolutions it is an occupied territory.
As soon as Israeli occupation ends,the Palestinians will be able to define the exact number of their nation beside those who are in diaspora ."

I think my answer was absolutely correct. No government,including USA,moved its embassy to Jerusalem.

Up to that date ,I didn't attack Israel although I questioned the ability of Netanyahu to take the risk and step towards real peace due to his connections with settlers which I believe is true.

Suddenly on Monday March 18, 2013, 10:56 am Gillian showed up attacking both Angelika and myself accusing both of us of antisemitism ( ignoring that I am Semite myself ) and talking about funny thing like "Arafat was not Palestinian but Egyptian " also talking about Muslims and attacking them as she usually does although this has nothing to do with this post at all and although neither Angelika nor myself wrote one single word about Jews or Judaism nor any other religion.
She then mentioned UN decisions about the creation of Israel forgetting that the same UN has issued hundreds of decisions related to the Palestinians right as if UN has two faces : a beautiful face when it creates Israel and an ugly face when it faces Israel's crimes against Palestinians rights and the Israeli occupation. She also posted someone view point on a fact finding commission about Israel's illegal settlements without saying a word about the report of that UN report and its conclusions. At this point I found myself obliged to post parts of that report to give a chance to commentators to have a look at the contents of that report. Here she got furious nd returned back to attacking Islam and Muslims which has nothing to do with this post.
 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 7:41 am
Abdesalam, you are still talking twaddle. Only Israel has the right to determine its own capital, not you nor anyone else. As to submitting a map of its own borders, why does Israel have to submit anything to anyone when they were determined back in 1949 by both the League of Nation and the UN from the British Mandate? Does Egypt do so?

As for being a Semite, whatever you choose to be no-one can stop you. However, try this

Definition of Antisemitism

Source: European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights


Also available from the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights is the Summary overview of Antisemitism in the European Union (Dec 2006)

This document has been copied here to allow people to copy and past parts of the definition as needed in order to clarify when debate and discussion has cross the line from free speech to hate speech. In the EU hate speech is not protected, it is in fact a crime.

The EU's Definition of Antisemitism

The purpose of this document is to provide a practical guide for identifying incidents, collecting data, and supporting the implementation and enforcement of legislation dealing with antisemitism.

Working definition: ``Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non­Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.''

In addition, such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for ``why things go wrong.'' It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion. •Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective - such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
•Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non­Jews.
•Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
•Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
•Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.


Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:


•Denying the Jewish people their right to self­determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
•Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
•Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
•Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
•Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries). Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property---such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries---are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews. Antisemitic discrimination is the denial to Jews of opportunities or services available to others and is illegal in many countries.
 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 7:49 am
Abdesalam, you clearly show yourself as an anti-Semite under this international definition. If you prefer a dictionary definition , this is from the online urban dictionary

Anti-Semite

A person who hates jews. Antisemitism refers ONLY TO JEWS. Even though semites include people of other faiths and ethnicities, the term was created by a man named Wilhelm Marr solely to describe his hate for Jews ONLY.

Unfortunately, society continues to tolerate anti-Semites and their irrational hate of Jews.

anti-Semite

(n.) a person who discriminates against or is prejudiced or hostile toward Jews.

Although someone who is Semitic can consist of Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Hebrew, and Phoenician persons, the current social and dictionary definition of an anti-Semite is one who discriminates against or is prejudiced or hostile toward Jews.
 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 7:52 am
As for the un lack of human rights council. A similar mix was disbanded and reconstituted and is now looking to be disbanded again. You cannot have a human rights council made up of countries who do not allow human rights to exist internally.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 7:58 am
Continue Gillian .... continue
 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 8:09 am
Abdesalam obviously cannot deal with the truth and to prove this abuses me personally.
As for this infamous report that Abdesalam keeps going on about, perhaps he should look past his nose

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/new-unhrc-report-on-israel-astonishingly-disregards-un-watch-submission

New UNHRC report on Israel astonishingly disregards UN Watch submission

GENEVA, – UN Watch Executive Director Hillel Neuer issued the following comment on the UN Human Rights Council’s latest report on alleged Israeli violations.

UN Watch is astonished by the commission’s failure to make even a single reference to our lengthy submission, a 54-page document with 257 footnotes. The UN Watch submission provided essential context that the commissioners inexplicably chose to ignore.

The council report is categorically one-sided, casting Palestinians as the sole victims of the Arab-Israeli conflict, while denying the slightest consideration to any basic human rights for Israelis.

The report disregards the thousands of suicide bombings, knifings, and other terrorist attacks committed by Palestinian Arab groups, failing to acknowledge how this violence brought about Israeli security measures in the territories that did not previously exist.

The report abandons any nuance regarding Israeli communities beyond the Green Line, lopping remote settlement outposts into the same category as Jerusalem neighborhoods, thereby ignoring previous peace plans such as the Geneva Accord and the Clinton Plan.

By calling for the forced eviction of Jews from Jerusalem’s Old City—in what the report euphemistically terms a process of “withdrawal,” as if 500,00 people were like deployed soldiers—the UN commissioners endorse a policy inconsistent with UN conventions on the elimination of racism.

The reality is that the HRC’s fact-finding enterprise is dedicated chiefly to attacking but one country: Israel. In the entire history of the HRC, there have been seven one-sided inquiry missions on Israel, and only five on the rest of the world combined. Mass atrocities committed by Iran, China, or Sri Lanka, for example, have never been subjected to a single HRC inquiry.

Today’s report exemplifies and only further entrenches the council’s biased and disproportionate focus on Israel.

Whatever one’s position on settlements, the report does nothing to promote a just and lasting peace.

Instead, as the U.S. acknowledged when the inquiry was created last year, it has the perverse outcome of pushing the parties further apart, while also inappropriately pre-judging final status issues that can only be resolved through direct negotiations. The UN and its human rights bodies should all be working to advance the cause of peace — not to hinder it.

In a week when the UN legitimized genocidal Sudan, by electing the regime as vice-president of a top human rights body, it is now focusing its scarce time, resources and moral outrage on yet another biased, politicized, and one-sided report against Israel.

Its pre-determined findings are reminiscent of previous missions authorized by the HRC, which failed to acknowledge that there are two sides to this conflict. By choosing polarization, and pushing the parties further away from peace talks, the council’s inquiry breaches its responsibility to promote and protect human rights.

Sadly, the HRC will never have credibility on the Middle East so long as:

• The HRC continues to maintain a special agenda item and special day against Israel at every session. Israel is the only country targeted in this fashion.

•Half of all HRC condemnatory resolutions have been against Israel.

•Israel is the only country excluded from any of the council’s five regional groups.

•Israel is the only country subjected to a permanent mandate of investigation where only one side’s actions are examined. Contrary to the title of the “Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Palestine,” the actual mandate, unchanged since February 1993, is to investigate “Israel’s violations.” Actions by the PA, Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad are excluded. Mandate-holder Richard Falk endorses Hamas and has been condemned by Ban Ki-moon for endorsing the 9/11 conspiracy theory.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 8:22 am
Zionism in action. No more...No less
 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 8:22 am
By the way, the UN ignored the Camp David agreement, as did Abbas, in allowing him to claim that Palestine existed and partially recognising it. Palestine has never existed and it clearly shows Abbas's contempt of the agreed peace talks with Israel.

I note that Abdesalam has not commented about the Egyptian Arafat nor has he commented that the Palestinians did not come into existence until after the Six Day War.

Of course the obvious questions that Abdesalam has never answered, how many Jews live in Egypt? When were they forced out? Why were they forced out? And, even more damning, why are the Coptic Christians being abused and treated so badly? Why are they being murdered and falsly imprisoned?Churches burned? Their monastery attacked and badly damaged whilst the police looked on? Why is nothing being done about the ongoing rapes and forced conversions of their young daughters? Why are they forced to live on the rubbish tip? Why do they not have equal rights?

I will be very interested in your reply although I don't expect one.


 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 8:24 am
Abdesalam, what does, "Zionism in action. No more...No less" mean? Define.
 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 8:32 am
From Amnesty International

Egypt: Fighting for justice and human rights: Egypt's women ...
15 March 2013
In Egypt today, the human rights of women are under threat. Women in Egypt continue to suffer sexual and gender-based violence, as well as discrimination in law ...

Women stand up to wave of injustice and violence in Egypt ...
15 March 2013
In advance of Egyptian women's day, on 16 March, Amnesty International celebrates women's contribution to the struggle for human rights.

Egypt: Checklist to combat sexual and gender-based violence
15 March 2013
Women in Egypt continue to suffer sexual and gender-based violence, as well as discrimination in law and practice. Instead of securing a means for providing an ...

Egypt football violence death sentences condemned
11 March 2013
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. PUBLIC STATEMENT. AI Index: MDE 12/014/2013. 11 March 2013. Egypt football violence death sentences condemned. ...

Egypt betrays revolution with proposed draconian laws | Amnesty ...
6 March 2013
The Upper House of parliament in Egypt prepares to debate laws that would severely restrict the work of independent civil society organizations and limit freedom ...

Egypt: Grant Alexandria activist a fair trial
25 February 2013
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. PUBLIC STATEMENT. Index: MDE 12/012/2013. 25 February 2013. Egypt: Grant Alexandria activist a fair trial. Ahead ...

Amnesty International | Egypt hits 'new low' on NGO restrictions
21 February 2013
A move by Egyptian authorities to prohibit national NGOs' contact with foreign organizations without prior permission from security bodies represents a new low ...

Egypt hits 'new low' on NGO restrictions | Amnesty International
21 February 2013
New instructions from the Prime Minister indicate that no “local entity” is allowed to engage with “international entities” without permission.

Egypt law-makers blame women victims for sexual violence
13 February 2013
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. PUBLIC STATEMENT. Index: MDE 12/010/2013. 13 February 2013. Egypt law-makers blame women victims for sexual violence. ...

YouTube ban in Egypt is a setback for freedom of expression ...
12 February 2013
A temporary ban on YouTube imposed in Egypt over an anti-Islamic video sends "a dangerous message of intolerance", Amnesty International has said.

Then we have "Human Rights in Egypt"

Egypt’s troubled transition continued after Muslim Brotherhood candidate Mohamed Morsy became the country’s first democratically elected president. He retired Egypt’s ruling generals, effectively ending military rule, but became mired in controversy after he issued a decree in November to prevent judicial review of his decisions. This provoked outrage and judicial protests, causing him to withdraw the decree – but only after he initiated a national referendum that approved a new constitution that undermines key rights. Meanwhile, prosecutions of journalists and bloggers curtail space for free expression, civilians face military trials, police abuse remains extensive, and there has been no accountability for abuses committed by the police and military over the past two years.
 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 8:45 am
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7e8_1342266720

Why Abbas Will Never Make Peace With Israel

What are the chances that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas would ever sign a peace agreement with Israel? The answer: zero.

Abbas, who is in his late 70s, has been in power since 2005 even though his term in office formally ended in January 2009.

If Abbas did not sign a peace agreement with Israel when he was a legitimate president during his earlier four-year term in office, he is most unlikely to strike any deal with Israel now that he does not have a mandate from his people.

If he wished, Abbas could have reached a deal with the government of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni. But Abbas, like his predecessor Yasser Arafat, chose to turn down a generous offer that could have seen Israel relinquish control over most of the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Abbas is not interested in reaching any deal with Israel: he knows that such a move would require him to make concessions. Abbas knows that Israel will never give him 100% of his demands; that is enough for him to refuse to sign any historic agreement.

Like Arafat, Abbas does not want to go down into history as the first Palestinian leader to make concessions, especially on sensitive issues such as refugees and Jerusalem.

In 2000, Arafat rejected Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s generous offer, which included more than 90% of the territories captured by Israel in the Six Day War.

Arafat turned down the offer because he was afraid of being condemned by Arabs and Muslims for having “sold out to the Jews.” Arafat was later quoted as explaining that if he made any concessions to Israel he would “end up drinking coffee with [slain Egyptian President] Anwar Sadat up there.”

So if Arafat, the popular symbol and leader of the Palestinians was unable to make any concessions to Israel, who is Abbas to accept anything less than 100%?

Abbas knows that in a final deal, Israel would not permit millions of Palestinians living in refugee camps to enter the country. He also knows that Israel is planning to retain control over some parts of the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Arafat walked away from the Camp David summit in 2000 because he had been telling his people that anyone who makes concessions to Israel is a traitor.

Similarly, Abbas has also tied his hands by constantly promising the Palestinians that he would never make concessions on the “right of return” and settlements.

Abbas has even gone a step further by mobilizing Palestinian public opinion against Israel to a point where his people are not even ready to see him meeting with Vice Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz.

Abbas’s Palestinian Authority has been denouncing Israel and many of its leaders, including Mofaz, as war criminals. This is why when, two weeks ago, Palestinians heard that Mofaz was planning to visit Ramallah to meet with Abbas, hundreds took to the streets to protest.

Abbas quickly succumbed, and called off the meeting with Mofaz.

The next time Abbas plans to meet with any Israeli government official, Palestinians will once again take to the streets to protest.

The motives of the protesters are understandable. Why should they approve of such meetings while Abbas himself has been telling them for many years that Israeli leaders are war criminals and do not want peace?

If Abbas is not even able to hold a meeting with a senior representative of the Israeli government, who said that he could ever reach any peace agreement with Israel?

Abbas’s problem is more with his people than with Israel. Not only does Abbas not have a mandate to reach any deal with Israel, he has also lost much of his credibility among Palestinians for his failure to end his dispute with Hamas and to implement major reforms in his ruling Fatah faction

Today, Abbas is not in a position that allows him to sell to most Palestinians any agreement he reaches with Israel. Even if he were to bring home an agreement that includes 100% of his demands, most Palestinians would still receive it with full skepticism because it would be coming from a leader who does not have a mandate to make even the slightest concession.

Under the current circumstances, the wisest thing to do would be to maintain the status quo until the emergence of a new Palestinian leader who would have the true courage to make peace with Israel.

My personal comment - no leader will ever consider peace with Israel as to be a leader you must clearly show and prove that you want its destruction. Also, any leader who even showed that he would consider peace would be assassinated. Note that it will always be a he, women are not regarded as people.

 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 8:49 am
From the Washington Post August 2010

Abbas: Does he really want peace? Or would he, like Yasser Arafat before him, prefer the messy status quo to going down in history as the Palestinian who once and for all accepted that a Jewish state would fill two-thirds of the former Palestine? Abbas received a far-reaching offer from Netanyahu's predecessor, Ehud Olmert, that met the territorial conditions he now sets. He refused to accept it even as a basis for negotiations. All through the last year, the Obama administration has disregarded that history; it has told itself and anyone who asked that Abbas was ready for a two-state settlement.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 1:41 pm
This is really getting annoying now-we are in 2013, no use whatsoever to keep digging out old and older pieces and articles.
@ Gillian- I know it's not exactly my business but could you perhaps stop copying and for one time try to TYPE AND SPELL CORRECTLY Abdessalam's name?! Thank you.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 1:42 pm
Barking continues.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 2:07 pm
So Amnesty International,not UN,is a credible source regarding human rights violations. If so let us have a look on what Amnesty International says about the Zionist entity. Here is a copy and past from an Israeli resource called Y net >

Amnesty International: Israel violates human rights
Rights group accuses Israel of torture, restricting movement, limiting freedom of speech, and a 'siege that strangles 1.6 million people.' According to the group, torture and abuse are also rampant in both the PA and Hamas governments
Roi Simyoni
Published: 05.24.12, 14:45 / Israel News


An introduction penned by Amnesty International Israel Chairman Dr. Yishai Menuhin and general director of the group in Israel Yonatan Ger says that 2011 was not free from widespread human rights violations, but that looking back it was possible to say that human rights had never been so central a subject as they were last year. "If in the past tyranny was part of the reality of life in many countries, last year we witnessed unprecedented civil revolts in which citizens told their leaders: enough."

Addressing the group's activity in Israel, Menuhin and Ger said that AI continues to protect the rights of refugees and asylum seekers, fight ongoing housing discrimination against Palestinians, and prevent human rights violations stemming from the Israeli "occupation."

The report addressed Israel's ongoing closure on the Gaza Strip, saying that the situation, in existence since 2007, had created a humanitarian crisis for 1.6 million residents, most of whom were dependent on humanitarian aid. The report criticized the ongoing ban on exports, which it said "choked" the economy, as well as the severe restrictions on imports. According to AI, this has driven prices up, in effect a collective punishment, which contravenes international law and is particularly hard on children and the sick.

At least 36 Palestinians have been killed in accidents in smuggling tunnels or in Israeli Air Force attacks on the tunnels, Amnesty says. In addition the report addressed the several aid flotillas to Gaza stopped by the Israeli government. The organization noted that while in September 2011 the UN had decreed Israel's naval siege on Gaza legal, it had not addressed the legality of the overall closure of the Gaza Strip.

Turning to the West Bank, the Amnesty Report noted that "over 500 checkpoints and military barriers continued to complicate Palestinians' access to employment, schools, and hospitals, while Israel continued to build a 700-kilometer security fence. The fence, according to the report, is built mainly on Palestinian land and separates "thousands" of farmers from their land and water sources.

"Palestinians are forbidden to enter areas surrounding Israeli settlements, which were built and expanded in violation of international law," the report states, adding that settlement construction was up. Amnesty puts the number of settlers living in the West Bank at the end of 2011 at over 500,000.

Moreover, the report continued, in 2011 over 620 Palestinian buildings in the West Bank had been demolished, causing 1,100 Palestinians to lose their homes, 80% more than in 2012. The group noted that Bedouin and other shepherds had been particularly affected and some were in danger of permanent dislocation due to restrictions on their movement.

Amnesty said that Israel's demolition last June of 33 structures in Al-Hadidiya in the northern Jordan Valley had left several families without homes.






 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 2:15 pm
Amnesty International report continues :

The IDF also came in for criticism, with the report citing "unnecessary violence" by troops against Palestinians in the West Bank and against demonstrators on the Lebanese and Syrian borders. Amnesty says that IDF forces killed 55 Palestinian civilians in the West Bank, including 11 children. While the army had set up investigative committees to look into some of these incidents, the report says, the panels were not transparent or independent.

The report also criticized Israel for not taking steps to investigate "war crimes" or "crimes against humanity" committed by Israel during Operation Cast Lead in 2008-9, and said that according to the Yesh Din organization nearly 90% of the police cases in which settlers were accused of violence against Palestinians were closed, and that only 3.5% of the Palestinian complaints about violence by IDF soldiers had led to indictments.

In addition, the Amnesty report claims, in 2011 at least 307 Palestinians from the West Bank had been held in custody in Israel without being indicted or tried. This was possible through the use of directives based on secret information.

Israel also continued its policy of not allowing family members of Gazan Palestinians to visit their relatives being held in Israel prisons, the report says, a policy that has been in place since June 2007. In some cases, according to Amnesty, the government also prevented family members of West Bank residents from visiting them in prison. Amnesty also cited a number of incidents of alleged torture and abuse.

Recent legislation was also cited in the report, with Amnesty arguing that the Knesset had passed laws limiting freedom of speech and assembly, including a law that criminalized calls to boycott Israelis or Israeli institutions or settlements. Amnesty also vilified the Nakba Law, which makes it illegal for Israeli institutions or local authorities to commemorate the Palestinian "Nakba."


Finally, Amnesty addressed the issue of refugees and asylum seekers, saying that Israeli authorities continued to keep Eritrean and Sudanese asylum seekers from undergoing procedures that would declare them refugees. According to Amnesty, migrants from these two countries comprise 80% of the total 45,000 refugee seekers in Israel. Amnesty said that they had been issued temporary documents only and were not eligible to work or apply for public services.

 

Ge M. (217)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 5:43 pm
Abdesalam, I note that you have failed to comment on the abuses suffered by Palestinians in Muslim controlled countries. That you have failed to comment on Egyptian Muslim abuses on Christians. On Egyptian Muslim abuses against Jews. Egyptian Muslim abuses against Muslim women and non-Muslims.

You have also ignored the fact that Palestinian claims are bogus, that Arafat was Egyptian (what else) and that neither Arafat or Abbas want to negotiate peace. I am still waiting to hear why you accept the Hamas and Palestinian charters to destroy Israel.

I am also waiting for you to explain/define your comment, "Zionism in action. No more...No less".
 

Kit B. (276)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 5:59 pm

I apologize Angie and Abedessalam - the rantings here are not indicative of all Jewish people. In fact, they embarrass Jews every where that Jews actually hold the teachings of the Torah, dear. The words here are vile, slanderous and not based on even a whiff of truth or fact. That seems to be the way it is when the issue of Israel and Palestine is brought forward for discussion. Our or Care2 gang of thugs thinks that he who spits and screams loudest wins. It would be funny, if not so despicable.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 6:47 pm
Gillian, I have noticed that you are unable to spell names correctly and that you have a very arrogant and demanding way to involve people in a personal discussion with you, even when they made it clear they are not interested in that. Please stick wth the subject, off topic comments will continue to be ignored.

Kit, thanks for your words but it is not your duty to apologise,-there are others first. Despicable is the word, yes
 

Ge M. (217)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 5:13 am
I see that Abdeslam is totally unable to refute the truth when it is shown to him. I note that Angelik has failed to condemn his abuse so it is obviously acceptable for her "friend" to be nasty and abusive as well as to introduce off-topic subjects. Talk about double standards and hypocrisy!

I note that Angelika is quite happy to talk off subject yet has failed to respond to several on-subject topics back up the page. Why is that?

Everytime I introduce an ontopic subject you ignore it. You have done so before and are doing so with the UN Watch statement as well as that from Nobel Peace Laureate David Trimble. The Charters show that Abbas is lying when he claims that he wants peace as the article from liveleak shows with evidence. So, are you refusing to comment on on-topic subjects?

If you think it is arrogant to ask for an answer to serious questions and expect one then, yes, I am. In fact, it is strange that neither of you respond to serious questions.
 

Ge M. (217)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 5:20 am
Mind you, I note that your sycophant is also unable to refute the truth so calls it an unsubstantiated lie. It means that the charters are lies (I didn't write them, Muslims did) and that the NGO UN Watch has produced a fake report. That the Nobel Peace Laureate David Trimble is either a liar or a fraud (I know which of the 2 I'd believe), is that the best that she can come up with?.

It appears that neither you nor abdesalamares able to deal with or respond to the truth so to continue to discuss this predjudiced and unacceptable piece of garbage is pointless.
 

Vlasta M. (7)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 5:42 am
Mahmoud Abbas is a Holocaust denier and a master in taqiyya-Islamic principle of lying- When 74% of Arab inb West Bank and Gaza are more interested in annihilating and looting Israel then in building their own state, Israel woudl be insance to allow another terrorist state on its side...in addition to Egypt also wanting a new war and Syria in turmoil and perhaps being taken by Islamists. Let West Bank and Gaza Arabs be resettled in the lands and properties left by the Jews who had to flee Arab countries when Israel was formed. There were more Jewish refugees from the Arab countries than Arab refugees from Israel in 1948, and they now comprise over 50% of the Jewish poppulation of Israel. 23% of israel are Muslims and 2 % Christians and others (Bahaiis,m Buddhists etc.). In contrast. all other Arab countries (except Morocco) are Juden-frei.

Abbas reminds me of Amin al Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem who spent WWII in Berlin egging Hitler on to hurry up extermination of the Jews of Europe and come to the Middle East to exterminate them there. Mufti of Jerusalem was the highest ranking Nazi war criminal who was let go without trial for his crimes by the British and French in 1946 to Cairo where he traveled the Middle East and riled Arabs to a Jew hating frenzy that prevented Arabs to accept the Second Partition of Palestine...the Fist partition when 75% of Ottoman Palestine was given to the Arabs, east of river Jordan was done in 1922 and West Palestine was left for a Jewish state, as stated in 1917 Balfour Declaration.

Since they could not win in many attempts of killing Jews and throwing them into the sea (wars of 1948,1956,1967,1973 and intifadas), as Arab leaders wanted, the Muslims are now using their skills in propaganda (taqiyya) to deceive good hearted Westerners that they are peaceful, when in fact opposite is true. Islam itself is incompatible with the Universal declaration of Human Rights and is the root cause of terrorism and violence nowadays.
 

Vlasta M. (7)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 5:46 am
"Taqiyya" means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.” It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralizing any criticism of Islam or Muslims.

Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned in the Qur'an and Sunna, including lying under oath in testimony before a court, deceiving by making distorted statements to the media such as the claim that Islam is a “religion of peace”. A Muslim is even permitted to deny or denounce his faith if, in so doing, he protects or furthers the interests of Islam, so long as he remains faithful to Islam in his heart.

Like many Islamic practices, taqiyya was formed within the context of the culture of Arab tribalism, expansionary warfare, Bedouin raiding and inter-tribal conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse, confound and divide 'the enemy’.

Barack Hussein Obama is a grand master of taqiyya, subverting US constitution to cover up for Islamic hateful teachigns and deceiving the Westerners.
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 6:13 am
Thanks Kit for your comment.I never talk about Jews and I believe,as many Jews do, that the Zionist entity doesn't represent Jews.The problem here is completely political and has nothing to do with Judaism ,Christianity or Islam or any other religion or belief. I even said several times that Israel has a right to exist should it end the occupation of all Arab lands occupied on and after June 5,1967 and accepts all UN resolutions regarding the conflict. Despite the fact that Abbas statements are calling for peaceful means to solve the problem, something that must be encouraged , the gang showed up to fight a different battle attacking persons like Angelika and myself although we both didn't attack the Zionist entity. This is expected from hate mongers who wanted this thread to go to a different direction.I preferred as usual not to respond to their attack but put facts before care2 members who shared their view points here in a polite way. I'll hold to my principals and neglect the ignorance despite the efforts to take this thread to a different direction.
 

Vlasta M. (7)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 6:28 am
Obama just came to Israel and will meet Abbas on his way to Jordan...It will be interesting to see if Arab kids throw stones onto his car...Too bad that Israel let this grand taqiyya man in to visit. He should have gone to his Muslim Brothers in Egypt to whom he gives access to the White house, US taxpayers money and F-16 for their new war on Israel.

Abbas, Arafat and all other terrorists and Islamic liars were all disciples of the Nazi war criminal Mufti of Jerusalem on how to lie, murder their opponents and steal from their people...
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 6:36 am
An Australian Parliamentary friends of Israel study tour returned from Israel lately and presented a report about its mission to the NSW Legislative Council. The council in turn discussed the report and it was noticed that the mission didn't include any member of the GREENS. The report was debated. Following is a speech delivered by David Shoebridge ( a greens member of the NSW Legislative Council on Thursday 14 march 2013.Thanks to my friend Christine who provided the link on an other post. I am very grateful to her. You can also watch the debate if you like on the same link provided at the end of this comment . Enjoy

Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE [10.28 p.m.]: I speak to this motion and note at the outset that it is a very unbalanced one. Indeed, a member asked if The Greens took part in this study mission to Israel. As far as I am aware, no Greens member of Parliament went on this study mission. That was primarily because of the one-sided nature of the itinerary, which is reflected in the one-sided nature of this motion.

In a motion that purports to talk about building an understanding of the complex and various issues impacting on Israel and other jurisdictions within the Middle East, it is extraordinary that in the more than 100 words and five paragraphs of this motion not one word is mentioned about Palestine or the Palestinians. The human rights of the Palestinians are airbrushed out of the motion, just as they were airbrushed out of the itinerary of the study tour that travelled to Israel and some very small parts of the West Bank.



Having heard the contributions of members who went on the study tour and having read the motion, I can see that this is little more than a public relations exercise for the Israeli Government. Indeed, this public relations exercise has been run in part through the offices of the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies which arranged the tour and, I understand, partly paid for the study trip to Israel.

For the record, I do not recall getting an invitation from the Jewish Board of Deputies for this visit. However, had I received one I would not have accepted the invitation to go on this study trip because of the extraordinarily one-sided itinerary provided to members.

If the Parliamentary Friends of Israel were interested in building an understanding of the complex issues in the Middle East, as they purport to be, their itinerary should have included a couple of other places to visit. First, the itinerary should have included visits outside the limited confines of Israel, Jerusalem and Bethlehem.

How could members of this Chamber who wanted to get a balanced understanding of the issues facing the Israelis, the Palestinians and the Middle East travel to that part of the world and not meet with any members of the Palestinian Legislative Council, or at least those members of the Palestinian Legislative Council not currently being held in Israeli jails, many of them without trial and without being charged with any criminal offence?

How could members go there and meet with only one of the legislative bodies, the Knesset, and ignore the Palestinian Legislative Council? How could members, who wanted to get a balanced understanding of the issues facing Israel, Palestine and the Middle East, go to the other side of the planet and fail to visit Gaza, the world’s largest outdoor prison?

How could members not go to see the way the Palestinians live under the illegal blockade or not speak to the local health workers about the conditions in Gaza, or the paramedics about how they respond to the impacts of aerial bombardments by the Israeli military?

If they had visited Gaza they would have been able to see the X-rays that the Gaza doctors show of children’s kidneys riddled with kidney stones because of the saline water they are required to drink. The Israeli wells on the edge of Gaza are stripping out the fresh water from the arterial basin and the arterial basin is filling up with saline water from the sea. That saline water fills the wells. Most of the water treatment plants have been destroyed by Israeli bombardments and almost every child in Gaza has kidneys riddled with kidney stones and ongoing health problems.

Next time members should go to Gaza, look at the children, look at the damage, look at the X-rays and get some balance in their visit.

If they had gone to Gaza surely they would then have gone to the West Bank and outside Bethlehem and Jerusalem and spoken to Palestinian villagers whose lives and livelihoods have been destroyed by the apartheid wall. Talk to the farmers whose olive groves have been cut off by the illegal apartheid wall, who cannot get to the fields that generations of their family had previously tended because of an illegal apartheid wall built by Israel through the middle of their homes, villages and farms.

Surely members could also have met with Israeli peace activists, such as Jeff Halper from the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, and spoken to Palestinians who have been illegally evicted from their homes and land to make way for internationally condemned settlements being built by the Israelis.

But, no. Members spoke to the Israeli settlers but they did not visit and speak to the people who have been evicted illegally for these internationally condemned, unlawful settlements that are now riddling the West Bank.

How could members not have travelled to Hebron and done the Breaking the Silence tour, where former Israeli soldiers would have told them about what goes on in the occupied territories, about the violence and the discrimination perpetrated by the Israeli military and the settler movement against the native Palestinian population?

Or were they Israeli voices that members wanted to edit out and not hear? The inconvenient truth.

The Hon. Dr Peter Phelps: What about the Qatar and Hamas civil war? What about what Qatar and Hamas do to each other? Did you go to the police building in Gaza? Did you go to the town hall in Gaza where they chuck people off? Did you go to the police building in Ramallah where they throw people out the window?

Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: It is the inconvenient truth of the illegal, violent, discriminatory and brutal occupation in the West Bank.

DEPUTY-PRESIDENT (The Hon. Paul Green): Order! It is disorderly to interject.

Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: How could members not visit the Palestinian refugee camps in neighbouring countries such as Lebanon, where Palestinian refugees from 1948, 1967 and beyond live in sub-standard Third World conditions?

The Hon. Dr Peter Phelps: What is the right of return for Vietnamese refugees?

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Point of order: Members speaking in this debate have been heard in silence. Some members may not agree with other views expressed in the Chamber, but members should be allowed to express their views in a democratic way. I ask you to stop members of this Chamber from yelling down other members with whose views they may disagree.

DEPUTY-PRESIDENT (The Hon. Paul Green): Order! There is a motion on the floor and members are entitled to share their views.

The Hon. Dr Peter Phelps: I’m just reminding him that there are two sides to the story.

DEPUTY-PRESIDENT (The Hon. Paul Green): Order! There are diverse views in this Chamber and, in terms of protocol, they are entitled to be heard in silence.

Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: How could members not visit those Palestinian refugee camps in neighbouring countries such as Lebanon, where Palestinian refugees from 1948, 1967 and beyond live in sub-standard Third World conditions and are denied their human right to return to their homes? Members did not speak to them, see their title deeds and see the keys they still hold for the homes that were taken from them in the illegal occupations and evictions that have been taking place for decades in that part of the world?

It is extraordinary to note that Labor members, one of whom is notionally from the Left, visited Israel and small parts of the West Bank but did not travel to Nablus and meet with any of the Palestinian trade unions. How could members have travelled over there and not spoken to the firefighters in the Nablus fire station who were locked into their compound by Israeli tanks and snipers and prevented from doing their job as firefighters? They were prevented from saving the lives and homes of their families and friends for days and days as homes burned; children and other people died while the Israeli military shelled and burned their city around them.

The motion is not balanced; the visit to Israel was not balanced. It was not about getting an understanding of the complex and various issues but, rather, about getting a narrow part of the Israeli understanding.

For members who went on such an unbalanced tour and failed to see the balanced truth, the oppression the Palestinian people face daily as a result of the illegal occupation of Israel, and to support this motion and preach to the rest of the Chamber about truth, understanding, peace and non-violence is extraordinary.

http://davidshoebridge.org.au/2013/03/15/parliamentary-friends-of-israel-study-tour-motion-debate/#comment-3707

 

Just Carole (338)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 7:34 am
 
Hotlink to information referenced in Abdessalam's comment:
 
Parliamentary Friends of Israel Study Tour [Motion Debate]
 
 
 

Abdessalam Diab (153)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 7:45 am
TWO DAYS AGO IN HAARETZ

Racist incitement by Israeli public figures doubled in 2012, study shows
According to a new report from the Coalition Against Racism in Israel, there were 106 cases of high profile racist statements last year, compared with 59 such cases the year before.
By Jack Khoury | Mar.18, 2013 | 3:01 PM |
Incitement to hate by public figures in Israel has nearly doubled in the past year. According to the Coalition Against Racism in Israel, which released its annual report for 2012 ahead of the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination on March 21, there were 106 cases of racist statements made by public figures over the past year, compared with 59 such events the year before.

Broken down further, the totals include 44 cases of incitement against Arabs, 54 against refugees and migrants and four against Mizrahi Jews (Jews of Middle Eastern descent). Two cases of incitement against Russian speakers and two against the gay community were also reported.

The report, which traces racist incidents from mid-March of 2012 through mid-February 2013, culls its information from events reported in the media as well as incidents handled by the coalition's member organizations.

The coalition was founded by the Mossawa Center, an advocacy organization for Arabs in Israel, in 2003. It now counts 37 human right organizations among its members.

The report also cites 23 cases of damage to cemeteries and holy sites – Musli, Jewish and Christian. Only 13 such incidents were reported in the previous year.

There was a also a sharp uptick in racist incidents at sporting events, with 78 such cases being tallied this year compared with only 55 the

Nidal Othman, the attorney who heads up the Coalition Against Racism, said that the newly formed government must make fighting racism one of its top priorities.
"Last year, we saw an increase in racist incidents," he said. "It was a year of incitement on the part of public figures, and it penetrated deep into Israeli society."


http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/racist-incitement-by-israeli-public-figures-doubled-in-2012-study-shows.premium-1.510230
 

Kit B. (276)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 8:43 am

That is an absolute statement of fact Abdessalam, these are political "debates" though I used that word carefully. When character assignation is integrated into a discussion it is no longer a debate. This not about anti-Semites, nor the Holocaust, it has been made very personal.

Sometimes we chose to not read the facts as we may find we are proven wrong. Like many that were born Jewish I didn't want to look closely at the facts. I wanted to believe that those who settled in Israel were going to be an example of true democracy, an all inclusive government that would reach out a hand in peace. It often pains me to know the truth. The facts and truth, not bent or twisted to fit a chosen belief are more than available for those who make the choice to actually read and learn the truth.
 

Rob and Jay B. (122)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 11:08 am
Fatah leader, Abbas Zaki, has repeatedly revealed the duplicity of the PA leaders. On April 9th 2008 he told NBN TV the following: “The PLO has not changed its platform even one iota….The PLO proceeds through phases…..Allah willing we will drive them (Jews) out of all of Palestine.” The following year he revealed on Lebanese TV: “When we say that the settlement should be based upon these (1967) borders, President (Abbas) understands, we understand, and everybody knows, that the greater goal (destruction of Israel) cannot be accomplished in one go. If Israel withdraws from Jerusalem, evacuates the 650,000 settlers and dismantles the wall – what will become of Israel? It will come to an end.” He then cautioned his listeners: “It is not acceptable policy to say that we want to wipe Israel out. Don’t say these things to the world, keep it to yourself.”

Bukhari:V4B52N177 "Allah's Apostle said, 'The Hour will not be established until you fight
with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say.
"O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."'"
(A poll sponsored by the Israel Project found that 73 percent of Palestinian Arabs “believe” this Hadith, according to the findings of a July 2011 study by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner)

PALESTINIAN HAMAS TV PROGRAMS FOR KIDS TEACHING HATRED OF JEWS & TO KILL THEM AND BECOME MARTYRS:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1037512/Pictured-The-TV-rabbit-preaching-hatred-telling-young-Muslims-kill-eat-Jews.html

(Article 8) of the Hamas charter, reads: “Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.”

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism."
-- Zahir Muhsein, PLO executive committee member said in an interview to the Dutch newspaper Trouw in 1977

And you faux 'Liberals' actually attack Israel and ignore the hate, oppression, corruption and violence of the Palestinian dictators? Hypocrites. Where is your support for the Western Sahara people against the brutal Moroccan invasion and real occupation, driving two or three hundred thousand refugees into neighboring countries?
 

Angelika R. (146)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 11:17 am
"Indeed, this public relations exercise has been run in part through the offices of the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies which arranged the tour and, I understand, partly paid for the study trip to Israel. "

DÉJA VU, - Australian AIPAC? NO surprise ! Thank you, Abdessalam, Carole, Kit and of course also Christine!
I suggest we leave THIS POST now and likely continue on a new one, which will most likely appear right after we all have heard about Obama's words in the West Bank!
 

Carola May (20)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 11:25 am
Abdessalem, I'm still waiting for you and your Muslim fellow Jew/Israel haters to fess up and apologize for and condemn the Muslim invasion and occupation of Jerusalem, the Jews' capital city they built 3100 years ago, and your Muslim eliberate desecration of the Jews' holiest site, the Temple Mount, with your Dome of the Rock (covered with hate verses against Jews and Christians from your Qur'an) and al-Aqsa mosque, not even allowing the Jews to stand on the Mount and pray (If Jews did that to your holiest site in Mecca you Muslims would destroy it and kill all the Jews you could find, and you know you would).

So, let's hear you condemn the Muslim occupation of Jerusalem, and the Muslim invasion, conquests and destruction of peoples and cultures and religions across what is now the Muslim occupied world (over 80 million slaughtered in the Muslim conquest of India alone). But you Muslims never apologize or condemn the brutal, intolerant and violent conquest of all these peoples and cultures, do you, or their enslavement? Never. You're always the victims, even while you're standing on the necks of your conquered peoples slitting their throats following your prophet's teachings of hate and his example of debauchery. You are a hypocrite if you remain silent on Muslim occupations and conquests, and your phony liberal friends here lose all credibility in refusing to condemn Islamic hate and brutality and occupation.

You've got a lot of nerve talking about 'hate' Kit, when your, and all of your fake Liberal friends', blindness to all Muslim atrocities, the occupation and conquest of Jerusalem, Mohammed's teachings of hate toward all Jews and non-Muslims (and don't even try to give those abrogated verses from Mecca that you know have been cancelled by all the more violent and hateful ones, Abdessalem), the persecution of and brutality against gay people, especially in your beloved Palestinian occupied lands, the demeaning treatment of women and the murder of their own children, blaming it on Israel, the bloody cowards.

Your silence on all of this Palestinian hate and oppression is very telling, yet you all want to condemn Israel which has freedom of speech, religion, conscience and press - all of which do not exist in Palestine, or any Muslim occupied land.
 

Ge M. (217)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 12:53 pm
Arab leaders have been abusing the Palestinians for political gain since the beginning of the conflict

Certainly the most tragic example of Palestinian leaders abusing their own people is their explicit policy of maximizing their own civilian casualties in order to generate worldwide condemnation against Israel. Both Hamas in Gaza and Hizbullah in Lebanon intentionally put their own civilians in harm's way by firing rockets from civilian areas, including hospitals, mosques, schools, UN posts, residential areas, and foreign press buildings. Hamas fighters have grabbed children off the streets to use as human shields, made their war headquarters under the largest hospital in Gaza, and booby trapped schools, zoos, civilian buildings, and even their own homes to maximize the carnage. They have prevented civilians from fleeing, broadcast messages on public television and radio calling on women and children to shield their fighters, and killed Palestinians who tried to resist being abused in this way. Civilians who were injured by Israeli attacks in both Gaza and Lebanon have blamed Palestinian terrorists for intentionally drawing fire to their homes. Several Arab leaders have also blamed Hamas and Hizbullah for dragging the region into conflict, including representatives of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinian Authority, among others.

Palestinian terrorists also make it extremely difficult for Israeli forces to differentiate between civilians and combatants by abusing humanitarian symbols, including a long history of hijacking ambulances and TV vehicles to transport fighters, explosives and suicide bombers. Both Hamas and Hizbullah have fought behind white flags; their combatants fight in civilian clothes; they have also used the Red Crescent symbol to disguise combatants. In the 2009 Gaza conflict, Hamas increased rocket attacks during the ceasefires, and repeatedly stole humanitarian aid (then tried to sell it back to the people), to the extent that at one point the UN suspended delivery of aid. Hamas has attacked aid trucks and border crossings; stolen fuel; refused aid; converted medicine bottles into grenades; and barred the injured from receiving medical treatment. When issuing requests for international aid, Hamas asks for weapons and fighters, instead of basic commodities for its people. In 2007, a Gaza resident who had been receiving treatment in an Israeli hospital used her medical permit to try to blow herself up in that same hospital.

Palestinians and their supporters also generate blame towards Israel by exaggerating and fabricating civilian suffering for the international media, which routinely proceeds to propagate these claims unquestioningly. “Pallywood” tactics include staging injuries, funerals and power blackouts, doctoring and misrepresenting photos and videos for the press, and wildly exaggerating casualty figures. Several foreign and Palestinian journalists have been threatened and attacked for reporting stories not in keeping with the desired Palestinian image.

The mass abuse of Palestinians at the hands of Arab leaders began with the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem in the War of 1948. Before launching the war, leaders of the invading Arab armies ordered Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes so they could “obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in”. From then until today, Palestinians refugees have been denied basic rights in almost every Arab country where they have sought shelter, including Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iraq. Libya expelled 30,000 of its Palestinian refugees; Kuwait expelled over 400,000. Yasser Arafat himself said that “What Kuwait did to the Palestinian people is worse than what has been done by Israel to Palestinians in the occupied territories.”

According to the Arab League, the explicit policy of denying Palestinians citizenship in other Arab countries and keeping them in “very bad conditions” is in order “to preserve their Palestinian identity”. An Egyptian foreign minister also openly stated that the intention in demanding the right of Palestinian refugees to return “is the extermination of Israel”.

Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza fare no better. Though they are the largest per-capita recipients of aid in the world, their leaders have to a large extent refused to use those funds to improve the conditions of ordinary Palestinians. Instead, several billion dollars in aid were diverted to Yasser Arafat’s personal accounts, while other aid was used to fund terrorism against Israel. The wealthy Arab states, for their part, have remained true to their policy of neglecting the Palestinians by giving only five percent of total aid, much less than they had publicly pledged.

“For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: 'We desire death like you desire life.'”

- Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, 2008
 

Ge M. (217)
Wednesday March 20, 2013, 1:04 pm
Hamas - Human Shield Confession

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g0wJXf2nt4Y

Palestine: Islamic Terror Tots Young Jihadists Child Abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-t_24LK3A

Palestinian refugees: encountering the faces behind the numbers (Jordan)

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-refugees-encountering-the-faces-behind-the-numbers/

 
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