Tuesday December 30, 2008, 10:08 am
No one is allowed to help! 3 tons of medical supplies...and no don't blame Hamas, its clear who is the real aggressor here and has been for years...land grabbing murderous gangsters. Only Zionists justify that!!

Tuesday December 30, 2008, 8:08 pm
Trying to run a blockade in a war zone is stupid. They should consider themselves luck they weren't sunk. Hamas is to blame. If they would agree to the truce and stop attacking Israeli civilians the border would be opened for humanitarian aid. Cutting the supply lines of your enemy is an effective way to weaken that enemy. Hamas will agree only when the shortages in Gaza that are already hurting the Palestinian people begin affecting the Hamas terrorists themselves.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 9:11 am
DEAD Jews aren't news, but killing terrorists outrages global activists. On Saturday, Israel struck back powerfully against its tormentors. Now Israel's the villain. Again.

How long will it be until the UN General Assembly passes a resolution creating an international Holocaust Appreciation Day?

Israel's airstrikes against confirmed Hamas terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip were overdue, discriminating and skillful. So far, this retaliatory campaign has been a superb example of how to employ postmodern airpower.

Instead of bombing empty buildings in the dead of night in the hope of convincing bloodthirsty monsters to become peace-loving floral arrangers - the US Air Force version of "Shock and Awe" - the Israeli Defense Force aimed to kill terrorists.

Israel's attack aircraft appear to have accomplished that part of the mission. As I write, some 300 terrorist dead have been reported in Gaza, while the propaganda-savvy information office of Hamas has strug- gled to prove that 20 civilians died.

Given the fact that Hamas adheres to the terrorist practice of locating command sites, arsenals and training facilities in heavily populated areas, the results suggest that the IDF - supported by first-rate intelligence work - may have executed the most accurate wave of airstrikes in history, with a 15-to-1 terrorist-to-civilian kill ratio.

The bad news is that it still won't be enough. While Israel has delivered a painful blow against Hamas, it's still not a paralyzing hit. The only way to neuter such a terror threat - even temporarily - is to go in on the ground and scour every room, basement and underground tunnel in a region.

That would mean high Israeli casualties and, of course, condemnation of Israel's self-defense efforts by every self-righteous, corrupt and bigoted organization and government on earth, from Turtle Bay to Tehran.

What have been Israel's "crimes?" Not "stealing Palestinian land," but making that land productive, while exposing the incompetence and sloth of Arab culture.

Israel's crime isn't striking back at terror, but demonstrating, year after year, that a country in the Middle East can be governed without resort to terror. Israel's crime hasn't been denying Arab rights, but insisting on human rights for women and minorities.

Israel's crime has been making democracy work where tyranny prevailed for 5,000 years. Israel's crime has been survival against overwhelming odds, while legions of Arab nationalists, Islamist extremists and Western leftists want every Jew dead.

But Israel's greatest crime was to expose the global cult of victimhood, to prove that hard work, fortitude and courage could overcome even history's grimmest disaster.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 9:58 am
There are two sides to every story...

How does one kill EVERY terrorist? The above poster makes it sound so EASY.. just go house to house and kill them ALL...

In practice, this theory is IMPOSSIBLE to execute, without killing ALL civilians. Why?

Now we have to dive deeper than just wading in the shallow end of the pool of theory, into actual facts, history, and reality.

1. "Terrorists" are often, though not always, freedom fighters.. For example, both the US and Israel were established by terrorists, who fought against an imperial power... Read history. The Imperial invaders and occupiers ALWAYS justify their invasion, power and land grab by calling those resisting their invasion and take over; 'terrorists' and worse, to be shot on sight.

2. Terrorists and freedom fighters do not usually wear arm badges so that they can easily be identified and killed. They mix in with the population, and look exactly like them... why? Because they are part and parcel of the local population, which supports and encourages them, just like the freedom fighters in a young Israel and USA...

3. So to win a 'war' against terrorists in a situation of an imperial invader occupying a country and taking it over, two things are required.. First, kill all civilians, down to the last person. Why? Because if you leave even one person alive, they will probably seek revenge, which by definition makes them a terrorist. Oooppps. Second, if you leave some of the population alive, they will seek to kick the invader out of their country, and long term, they will succeed. THis is ignoring the revenge factor.. What happens when you kill a dad, a brother or sister who was a freedom fighter? Well, they usually have family, relatives, tribes and kids, and from all of this killing, torturing and jailing, they learn to hate those who killed their loved ones, which grows more terrorists, in larger numbers, much like the Greek story of the Hydra.. Cut the head off one snake and 100 grow to fill the same spot.

In the struggle of guerrilla warfare, the odds are on the side of the guerrillas and freedom fighters, not on the side of the imperial invading army... History proves that FACT... This is not accomplished short term though, and millions of casualties are the result on the freedom fighters side.. Vietnam took many years first against the French, then the US.. In both cases, a small pipsqueak country with plenty of 'terrorists' kicked out an invading SUPERPOWER.

In Iraq, plenty of countries tried invading and conquering it, and all of them failed LONG TERM.. The last one before the US was the British, and they are going home now, again. India kicked out the British through non violent resistance, which was admirable, because it shows the way to win without using violence, against an large, powerful oppressor.

The US is trying to take over Iraq after the British failed, and are doing very poorly. The only way the US can keep a tiny footprint on it is by resorting to hiding 'elected' officials inside concrete 20 foot high blast walls guarded by 200,00 troops and private mercenaries, thousands of armed checkpoints, breaking and entering homes without search warrants, torturing civilians, holding people in Guantanamo for years without charges, etc... This does not sound like 'winning' and/or democracy to me. We could substitute Palestine for Iraq, and the same things are true with minor differences.

There are extremists in EVERY country, including Israel. Accusing Palestine or Gaza of having the ONLY extremists who love violence for all solutions, is like blaming a grain of sand for being part of the beach.. Those grains are everywhere..

The roots of this conflict are deep and will take some soul searching in EVERY country, not just Gaza or Palestine. Blaming just one side or the other and dehumanizing them creates more problems, and does not solve them.

The solutions are to be found in non violent methods... and that will take changing minds, hearts and belief systems which have been formed over many years, by those advocating for violence, death and bloodshed, on BOTH sides.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 10:12 am
So, delivering relief medical supplies is illegal? I guess if the Red Cross tries to give food or medicine to prisoners being held in enemy territory, that they should be shot and the stuff should be confiscated by the enemy troops, right?

Since any 'terrorist' could potentially kill millions, we need to kill them all, is the theory.. Second, since they are so BAD, any means is justified. To get even ONE terrorist, in any country, we should surround the whole country, cut off all food, water, medicine and power, until that country surrenders... and gives up. Hmmmmmmmm

Since it is known that there are 'terrorists' in EVERY country, we better get to work and close down all of the borders in EVERY nation, and cut off all trade, supplies, power, water and phones too... That will teach those 'terrorists' a thing or two and show them we mean business.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 10:31 am
Those idiots could have brought their relief supplies to the Israeli port and trucked them into Gaza with no problems, but they attempted to run a blockade designed to stop weapons from being smuggled into Gaza. Food and medical supplies cross the border from Israel into Gaza every day so trying to make it sound like Israel is starving the Palestinians is nothing but Jew hating propaganda.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 11:06 am
Israel did not take that land! It was given to them by the WORLD community. That whole area wasn’t much more than desert and wasteland when the Jewish State was established. It was an impoverished and backward country with no clear plan for improving the conditions of the people. It also already had a rather large Jewish population living under oppressive barbaric kingship Arab rule. The Jews took that nearly worthless gift and turned it into a modern democratic prosperous country; they have had to fight for their very lives ever since.

Anyone who deliberately targets innocent civilians is a terrorist; freedom fighters attack government and military targets.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 11:19 am
Oh, dear. did it ever occur to you that the "world community" had no right to give away someone else's land?

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian,
John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much
abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. Then an American
Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop
campaign train. 'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.' As
neither Jack nor I was an antisemite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took
this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of
American politics.
Unfortunately, the hurried recognition of Israel as a state has resulted in fortyfive
years of murderous confusion, and the destruction of what Zionist fellow
travellers thought would be a pluralistic state - home to its native population of
Muslims, Christians and Jews, as well as a future home to peaceful European and
American Jewish immigrants, even the ones who affected to believe that the great
realtor in the sky had given them, in perpetuity, the lands of Judea and Sameria.
Since many of the immigrants were good socialists in Europe, we assumed that they
would not allow the new state to become a theocracy, and that the native Palestinians
could live with them as equals. This was not meant to be. I shall not rehearse the wars
and alarms of that unhappy region. But I will say that the hasty invention of Israel
has poisoned the political and intellectual life of the USA, Israel's unlikely patron.
Unlikely, because no other minority in American history has ever hijacked so
much money from the American taxpayers in order to invest in a 'homeland'. It is as
if the American taxpayer had been obliged to support the Pope in his reconquest of
the Papal States simply because one third of our people are Roman Catholic. Had this
been attempted, there would have been a great uproar and Congress would have said
no. But a religious minority of less than two per cent has bought or intimidated
seventy senators (the necessary two thirds to overcome an unlikely presidential veto)
while enjoying support of the media.
In a sense, I rather admire the way that the Israel lobby has gone about its
business of seeing that billions of dollars, year after year, go to make Israel a 'bulwark
against communism'. Actually, neither the USSR nor communism was ever much of a
presence in the region. What America did manage to do was to
[viii] turn the once friendly Arab world against us. Meanwhile, the misinformation
about what is going on in the Middle East has got even greater and the principal
victim of these gaudy lies - the American taxpayer to one side - is American Jewry, as
it is constantly bullied by such professional terrorists as Begin and Shamir. Worse,
with a few honorable exceptions, Jewish-American intellectuals abandonedliberalism for a series of demented alliances with the Christian (antisemtic) right and
with the Pentagon-industrial complex. In 1985 one of them blithely wrote that when
Jews arrived on the American scene they 'found liberal opinion and liberal politicians
more congenial in their attitudes, more sensitive to Jewish concerns' but now it is in
the Jewish interest to ally with the Protestant fundamentalists because, after all, "is
there any point in Jews hanging on dogmatically, hypocritically, to their opinions of
yesteryear?' At this point the American left split and those of us who criticised our
onetime Jewish allies for misguided opportunism, were promptly rewarded with the
ritual epithet 'antisemite' or 'self-hating Jew'.
Fortunately, the voice of reason is alive and well, and in Israel, of all places.
From Jerusalem, Israel Shahak never ceases to analyse not only the dismal politics of
Israel today but the Talmud itself, and the effect of the entire rabbinical tradition on a
small state that the right-wing rabbinate means to turn into a theocracy for Jews
only. I have been reading Shahak for years. He has a satirist's eye for the confusions
to be found in any religion that tries to rationalise the irrational. He has a scholar's
sharp eye for textual contradictions. He is a joy to read on the great Gentile-hating Dr
Maimonides.
Needless to say, Israel's authorities deplore Shahak. But there is not much to be
done with a retired professor of chemistry who was born in Warsaw in 1933 and
spent his childhood in the concentration camp at Belsen. In 1945, he came to Israel;
served in the Israeli military; did not become a Marxist in the years when it was
fashionable. He was - and still is - a humanist who detests imperialism whether in the
names of the God of Abraham or of George Bush. Equally, he opposes with great wit
and learning the totalitarian strain in Judaism. Like a highly learned Thomas Paine,
Shahak illustrates the prospect before us, as well as the long history behind us, and
thus he continues to reason, year after year. Those who heed him will certainly be
wiser and - dare I say? - better. He is the latest, if not the last, of the great prophets.
Gore Vidal
Forward to Jewish History,
Jewish Religion
The Weight of Three Thousand Years
http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Israel.Shahak/Jewish.History.Jewish Religion-The.Weight.of.Three.Thousand.Years.pdf

Thursday January 1, 2009, 12:01 pm
the "world community" had no right to give away someone else's land?

That isn't the point. The fact is the land was given to the Jews and after 60 years of almost constant war it should be apparent that it is not going to be taken back. The Jewish State exist and the sooner everyone accepts that FACT the sooner peace can be achieved. We stole the land of the United States from the Indians. Canadian stole their land. As a matter of fact ALL of the Americas was stolen and none of those that stole the land could even claim prior ownership. At least the Jews can claim biblical ownership because the big imaginary guy in the sky gave it to them back when Moses supposedly lead the Jews out of Egypt. Who did the land belong to when JC and his 12 subversives were running around stirring up trouble for the Romans?

Thursday January 1, 2009, 2:40 pm
The more I look at this situation and I have been reading about both sides, the more see that the Jews are just creating more problems for themselves by doing what they are doing. This does by no means, brings peace and never will.
Israel is wrong.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 3:08 pm
Also I am also sick and tired of propaganda that says every one who is against the death Israel is creating is bigoted and a Jew hater. That is ridiculous. I certainly am not a Jew hater but I am certainly against this kind of blood shed. WAR IS NEVER THE ANSWER I don't care who side you are on.
America needs to stop supporting wars that Israel is involved in. Our current policy in that region is much too clouded by national ideas based on biblical premillennial dispensationalism and wanting Jesus to return which he will not EVER!

Thursday January 1, 2009, 3:14 pm
Marking the 100th Birthday of Simon Wiesenthal
New Online Resource: “Strategies in Facing Antisemitism: An Educational Resource Guide”


Marking the 100th anniversary of the birth of Simon Wiesenthal on 31 December 2008, Yad Vashem and the Simon Wiesenthal Center have launched a new, joint educational resource based on the National Jewish Book Award-winning Antisemitism: The Generic Hatred, that was published (2007) under the auspices of UNESCO, the Simon Wiesenthal Center and the Verbe et Lumiere foundation in France and was edited by Mark Weitzman, the Director of the Wiesenthal Center’s Task Force Against Hate and Dr. Shimon Samuels, the Center’s Director for International Relations along with Michael Fineberg.

“Strategies in Facing Antisemitism: An Educational Resource Guide” consists of articles by internationally recognized authors from countries affiliated with the Task Force for International Cooperation on Holocaust Education, Remembrance, and Research (ITF). These include Prof. Irwin Cotler of Canada, who wrote on “The New Antisemitism: An Assault on Human Rights”, Prof. Gert Weisskirchen of Germany, who is also the Special Representative to the OSCE Chairman-in-Office on Antisemitism Issues, who wrote about “When it is Not Enough to Know: The European Experience”, and Gunther Jekeli of Germany who described “The Kreuzberg Initiative against Antisemitism in Berlin”., co-edited Antisemitism: The Generic Hatred, which received the 2007 National Jewish Book Award.

Other articles include a brief biography of Simon Wiesenthal, a short historical overview of antisemitism, a guide for educators from the OSCE/ODIHR and Yad Vashem, information on antisemitism on the internet from the Simon Wiesenthal Center and a new lesson plan for high school students on antisemitism developed by Yad Vashem. The Guide, available in English, will be accessible at www.yadvashem.org and at www.wiesenthal.com, by using this link.

Simon Wiesenthal was born on December 31, 1908, and passed away at the age of 96 on September 20, 2005, in Vienna.

Contact: Iris Rosenberg or Susan Weisberg / Yad Vashem Media Relations
+972 2 644 3411/0 / media.relations@yadvashem.org.il

In the U.S.: Avra Shapiro, Director Public Relations, Simon Wiesenthal Center, avra@wiesenthal.com or Marcial Laviña, Asst. Director, mlavina@wiesenthal.net
P: 310-553-9036 F: 310-553-4521.

Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes Remembrance Authority, was established by the Knesset in 1953. Located in Jerusalem, it is dedicated to Holocaust remembrance, documentation, research and education. www.yadvashem.org

The Simon Wiesenthal Center is one of the largest international Jewish human rights organizations with over 400,000 member families in the United States. It is an NGO at international agencies including the United Nations, UNESCO, the OSCE, and the Council of Europe.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 3:17 pm
ecember 28, 2008

WIESENTHAL CENTER: “WORLD'S SILENCE EMPOWERED HAMAS' TERRORISM; NO UN MEMBER WOULD ACT DIFFERENTLY THAN ISRAEL”

The Simon Wiesenthal today accused the international community of empowering Hamas by remaining silent while thousands of rockets were hurled at Israeli cities and towns. "The UN Security Council scurries into action only when the Hamas terror infrastructure is being attacked,” charged Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean and founder of the Wiesenthal Center and Rabbi Abraham Cooper, the Center's associate dean. "If a Security Council meeting is convened, Israel's ambassador should look at Security Council members and challenge them directly, 'Which one of you would allow your cities and towns to suffer constant rocket barrage without retaliating?' Even PA president Abbas lays the blame for the current situation squarely at Hamas' door when he declared at a Cairo press conference: '...we said to them: We ask of you, don't stop the ceasefire, the ceasefire must continue and not stop, in order to avoid what has happened, and if only we had avoided it.' "

"Israel is finally doing what every member state of the United Nations has the right and obligation--to protect the long-suffering residents of Sderot and communities across southern Israel who have been bombardered with over 3,000 missiles by a terrorist organization. Many have chosen to forget that Israel unilaterally left Gaza in 2005, spending 2.5 billion dollars to remove Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip as an investment for peace with their Palestinian neighbors. All Israel has gotten for this unprecedented gesture are terrorist attacks targeting civilians in Israel proper and official anti-Jewish campaigns in government - controlled media, mosques and schools," they added. "Now Hamas leadership is renewing calls for suicide bombings-- another issue the UN refuses to deal with. And while no one wants to see innocent people suffering, it has long been Hamas' policy to deploy their terror infrastructure in and around civilians."

"The International Community can help--not by their serial condemnation of Israel but by signaling the Palestinians and the Arab world that Hamas' terrorism has brought their cause to a dead end', Center officials concluded.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center is one of the largest international Jewish human rights organizations with over 400,000 member families in the United States. It is an NGO at international agencies including the United Nations, UNESCO, the OSCE, and the Council of Europe.

For more information, please contact the Center’s Public Relations Department, 310-553-9036.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 3:20 pm
Defending Israeli citizens from terrorist fire

* A quarter of a million Israeli citizens have been living under incessant terror attacks from the Gaza Strip with thousands of missiles fired over the past eight years.
* These missiles have been described as "home made" by the media. They are, in fact, deadly. Hamas has in its possession longer range Katyushas and Grad-type missiles which can cause devastation such as that on Monday 29 December as one Israeli was killed and 14 injured in a Grad attack on Ashkelon.

* Israel left Gaza in 2005, giving Palestinians the chance to run their own lives. Despite this, more than 6300 rockets and mortars have been fired into Israel since then.
* During the past year alone, more than 3000 rockets and mortars have been launched into Israel.
* Since the end of a formal ceasefire (during which terror attacks continued) with Hamas came to an end on Dec. 19, more than 170 rockets and mortars have been fired at Israeli civilians including a barrage of some 80 missiles on Dec. 24 alone.
* As US President-elect Obama stated during a visit to Sderot five months ago, "If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I would do everything to stop that, and would expect Israel to do the same thing."
* No other country in the world would have exercised the amount of restraint that Israel has shown for the past several years without responding.

Hamas bears responsibility

* The deterioration in the situation is the direct result of Hamas policy. It violated the calm, is firing against and attacking Israeli citizens, and is investing all its resources in arming itself and gathering power.
* If Hamas would renounce the path of terror, there would be no need for the Israeli action. Quiet will be answered with quiet, but terror will elicit a response.
* "We strongly condemn the repeated rocket and mortar attacks against Israel and hold Hamas responsible for breaking the ceasefire and for the renewal of violence there." - US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice
* "We talked to them [Hamas] and we told them 'please, we ask you, do not end the truce. Let the truce continue and not stop' so that we could have avoided what happened." - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas
* "For quite some time, Egypt has been warning. Whoever tried to confuse the understand of [ignore] this warning, must bear the responsibility. The Prime Minister of Israel warned the Hamas and said: "You must stop, otherwise we will take measures in response." In response to what? To not renewing the calm, to the rocket fire. Just before the arrival of [Israeli Foreign Minister] Livni to Egypt, 60 rockets were fired from Gaza!" - Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit

Israel targets Hamas and the terrorist infrastructure

* The goal of the Israeli military action is to strike the growing infrastructure of terror and ability of Hamas and its allied organizations to launch missiles and mortars at Israeli citizens and carry out terror attacks.
* Hamas has used the ceasefire to massively arm itself with increasingly sophisticated weapons to expand the range of the threat against Israeli civilians.
* Hamas has demonstrated its increased threat as the Ashdod area was hit by rockets, marking the northernmost point where Hamas rockets have reached, more than 40km north of Gaza.

Israel does not target Palestinian civilians

* The terrorist organizations work out of the Palestinian population centers and cynically exploit them, so the responsibility for Palestinian civilians getting hurt rests on their shoulders. Israel, for its part directs its activity at terrorist elements and does its utmost to refrain from harming the innocent.
* Those homes and buildings which are used for storing weapons caches and manufacturing weaponry are legitimate military targets.
* The high casualty figures being fed to the media from (unreliable) Palestinian medical sources do not differentiate between terrorists and civilians. The vast majority of those killed in IDF actions have been terrorists. Hamas terrorists do not always wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from the general population.
* As The Times of London reports: "Radio stations ordered all members of the security forces, who have borne the brunt of the attack, to slip into civilian clothes, stay away from their bases and avoid congregating in groups to escape death from above."
* At the time of writing, even the United Nations is citing some 50 civilian deaths out of more than 300 Palestinian casualties.
* Hamas TV has acknowledged this morning that the vast majority of those killed are from the Hamas military. A news ticker running repeatedly from 10:00 AM announced:

"More than 180 Palestinian policemen were killed including the [Police] Commander, General Tawfik Jaber."

In the background Hamas TV is repeatedly broadcasting the same scenes of dozens of bodies of the uniformed Hamas soldiers who were killed in Israel's first attack Saturday when Israel hit a Hamas officer's course graduation ceremony. (Source: Palestinian Media Watch)

* In stark contrast to Israel, Hamas actively celebrates targeting Israeli civilians. A video on Hamas TV Sunday morning blended pictures of Hamas fighters shooting at Israel with pictures of injured Israelis and medical evacuation scenes. In addition, the visuals include pictures of skulls dripping with blood, captioned: "Let them taste violent death". Other narrations and texts include:
"Send them to Hell! Tear them to pieces!"
"Send them to Hell, Qassam missile!" (Source: Palestinian Media Watch)

* Israel has collected intelligence on specific targets for the past year and has not indiscriminately attacked the Gaza Strip. For example, during the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2007, Hamas took control over many facilities in Gaza, including this building and the "Palestinian Prisoner Tower" located in southern Gaza City. The facility was being used as a central operational facility for Hamas security operations and as a weapons arsenal. Hamas offices were also located inside this building and and additionally, large amounts of weapons are also stored inside. The building was used only by Hamas and was not a residential building by any means.

Preventing a humanitarian crisis

* Israel has continued to allow humanitarian aid to pass through Gaza's border crossings despite Hamas's rocket and mortar attacks, including upon the crossings themselves.
* 23 trucks bearing medical supplies, basic food commodities and other humanitarian goods passed through the Kerem Shalom crossing into Gaza beginning at 10.30am on Sunday morning (28 Dec).
* "As the prime minister said yesterday, we are not at war with the Palestinian people, but with the Hamas terrorists, and therefore we are bringing in the goods for the Palestinian people," said IDF Major Peter Lerner, Defense Ministry Coordinator for Government Activities in the Territories.
* Three humanitarian aid agencies are sending goods into the Gaza Strip: UNWRA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency), WFA (World Food Agency) and the ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross). All three agencies were notified Saturday evening that they would be allowed to send as many truckloads of supplies into the region as they could muster. "We didn't place any limit on the number of trucks," Lerner said. "There are only 30 truckloads because that was what they were able to get ready for today."

* Israel also plans to allow some Palestinians wounded in Saturday's offensive on Hamas to enter Israel to receive medical treatment. Meanwhile, Hamas is preventing wounded Palestinians from crossing into Egypt to receive treatment.

Further sources

* International Law & the Fighting in Gaza, Justus Reid Wiener & Avi Bell, JCPA, Justus Reid Wiener & Avi Bell, JCPA (PDF format)
* Did Israel Use "Disproportionate Force" in Gaza?, Dore Gold, JCPA

What can you do?

* Please use the above to counter some of the misreporting and disinformation that is already appearing in both the mainstream media and online.
* Download our free Internet Activism Guide to help you respond to media bias online. As the Internet grows as a battleground for Israel’s legitimacy, we bring you the tools you need to join the fight. Our 24-page booklet covers the fundamental principles of online activism.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 3:26 pm
Did Israel Use "Disproportionate Force" in Gaza?



Dore Gold

* Israeli population centers in southern Israel have been the target of over 4,000 rockets, as well as thousands of mortar shells, fired by Hamas and other organizations since 2001. Rocket attacks increased by 500 percent after Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza Strip in August 2005. During an informal six-month lull, some 215 rockets were launched at Israel.
* The charge that Israel uses disproportionate force keeps resurfacing whenever it has to defend its citizens from non-state terrorist organizations and the rocket attacks they perpetrate. From a purely legal perspective, Israel's current military actions in Gaza are on solid ground. According to international law, Israel is not required to calibrate its use of force precisely according to the size and range of the weaponry used against it.
* Ibrahim Barzak and Amy Teibel wrote for the Associated Press on December 28 that most of the 230 Palestinians who were reportedly killed were "security forces," and Palestinian officials said "at least 15 civilians were among the dead." The numbers reported indicate that there was no clear intent to inflict disproportionate collateral civilian casualties. What is critical from the standpoint of international law is that if the attempt has been made "to minimize civilian damage, then even a strike that causes large amounts of damage - but is directed at a target with very large military value - would be lawful."
* Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, explained that international humanitarian law and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court "permit belligerents to carry out proportionate attacks against military objectives, even when it is known that some civilian deaths or injuries will occur." The attack becomes a war crime when it is directed against civilians (which is precisely what Hamas does).
* After 9/11, when the Western alliance united to collectively topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, no one compared Afghan casualties in 2001 to the actual numbers that died from al-Qaeda's attack. There clearly is no international expectation that military losses in war should be on a one-to-one basis. To expect Israel to hold back in its use of decisive force against legitimate military targets in Gaza is to condemn it to a long war of attrition with Hamas.



Israel is currently benefiting from a limited degree of understanding in international diplomatic and media circles for launching a major military operation against Hamas on December 27. Yet there are significant international voices that are prepared to argue that Israel is using disproportionate force in its struggle against Hamas.



Israeli Population Centers Under Rocket Attack

There are good reasons why initial criticism of Israel has been muted. After all, Israeli population centers in southern Israel have been the target of over 4,000 rockets, as well as thousands of mortar shells, fired by Hamas and other organizations since 2001.1 The majority of those attacks were launched after Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza Strip in August 2005. Indeed, rocket attacks increased by 500 percent (from 179 to 946) from 2005 to 2006.

Moreover, lately Hamas has been extending the range of its striking capability even further with new rockets supplied by Iran. Hamas used a 20.4-kilometer-range Grad/Katyusha for the first time on March 28, 2006, bringing the Israeli city of Ashkelon into range of its rockets for the first time. That change increased the number of Israelis under threat from 200,000 to half a million.2 Moreover, on December 21, 2008, Yuval Diskin, Head of the Israel Security Agency, informed the Israeli government that Hamas had acquired rockets that could reach Ashdod, Kiryat Gat, and even the outskirts of Beersheba.3 The first Grad/Katyusha strike on Ashdod, in fact, took place on December 28. There had been no formal cease-fire between Israel and Hamas, but only an informal six-month tahadiya (lull), during which 215 rockets were launched at Israel.4 On December 21, Hamas unilaterally announced that the tahadiya had ended.



Critical Voices

On December 27, 2008, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon's spokesmen issued a statement saying that while the Secretary-General recognized "Israel's security concerns regarding the continued firing of rockets from Gaza," he reiterated "Israel's obligation to uphold international humanitarian and human rights law." The statement specifically noted that he "condemns excessive use of force leading to the killing and injuring of civilians [emphasis added]."5

A day later, Navi Pillay, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights "strongly condemned Israel's disproportionate use of force." French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who holds the rotating presidency of the European Union, also condemned Israel's "disproportionate use of force," while demanding an end to rocket attacks on Israel.6 Brazil also joined this chorus, criticizing Israel's "disproportionate response."7 Undoubtedly, a powerful impression has been created by large Western newspaper headlines that describe massive Israeli airstrikes in Gaza, without any up-front explanation for their cause.



Proportionality and International Law: The Protection of Innocent Civilians

The charge that Israel uses disproportionate force keeps resurfacing whenever it has to defend its citizens from non-state terrorist organizations and the rocket attacks they perpetrate. From a purely legal perspective, Israel's current military actions in Gaza are on solid ground. According to international law, Israel is not required to calibrate its use of force precisely according to the size and range of the weaponry used against it (Israel is not expected to make Kassam rockets and lob them back into Gaza).

When international legal experts use the term "disproportionate use of force," they have a very precise meaning in mind. As the President of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague, Rosalyn Higgins, has noted, proportionality "cannot be in relation to any specific prior injury - it has to be in relation to the overall legitimate objective of ending the aggression."8 In other words, if a state, like Israel, is facing aggression, then proportionality addresses whether force was specifically used by Israel to bring an end to the armed attack against it. By implication, force becomes excessive if it is employed for another purpose, like causing unnecessary harm to civilians. The pivotal factor determining whether force is excessive is the intent of the military commander. In particular, one has to assess what was the commander's intent regarding collateral civilian damage.9

What about reports concerning civilian casualties? Some international news agencies have stressed that the vast majority of those killed in the first phase of the current Gaza operation were Hamas operatives. Ibrahim Barzak and Amy Teibel wrote for the Associated Press on December 28 that most of the 230 Palestinians who were reportedly killed were "security forces," and Palestinian officials said "at least 15 civilians were among the dead."10 It is far too early to definitely assess Palestinian casualties, but even if they increase, the numbers reported indicate that there was no clear intent to inflict disproportionate collateral civilian casualties.

During the Second Lebanon War, Professor Michael Newton of Vanderbilt University was in email communication with William Safire of the New York Times about the issue of proportionality and international law. Newton had been quoted by the Council on Foreign Relations as explaining proportionality by proposing a test: "If someone punches you in the nose, you don't burn down their house." He was serving as an international criminal law expert in Baghdad and sought to correct the impression given by his quote. According to Newton, no responsible military commander intentionally targets civilians, and he accepted that this was Israeli practice.

What was critical from the standpoint of international law was that if the attempt had been made "to minimize civilian damage, then even a strike that causes large amounts of damage - but is directed at a target with very large military value - would be lawful."11 Numbers matter less than the purpose of the use of force. Israel has argued that it is specifically targeting facilities serving the Hamas regime and its determined effort to continue its rocket assault on Israel: headquarters, training bases, weapons depots, command and control networks, and weapons-smuggling tunnels. This way Israel is respecting the international legal concept of proportionality.

Alternatively, disproportionality would occur if the military sought to attack even if the value of a target selected was minimal in comparison with the enormous risk of civilian collateral damage. This point was made by Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, on February 9, 2006, in analyzing the Iraq War. He explained that international humanitarian law and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court "permit belligerents to carry out proportionate attacks [emphasis added] against military objectives, even when it is known that some civilian deaths or injuries will occur." The attack becomes a war crime when it is directed against civilians (which is precisely what Hamas does) or when "the incidental civilian injuries would be clearly excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage."12 In fact, Israeli legal experts right up the chain of command within the IDF make this calculation before all military operations of this sort.



Proportionality as a Strategic Issue

Moving beyond the question of international law, the charge that Israel is using a disproportionate amount of force in the Gaza Strip because of reports of Palestinian casualties has to be looked at critically. Israelis have often said among themselves over the last seven years that when a Hamas rocket makes a direct strike on a crowded school, killing many children, then Israel will finally act.

This scenario raises the question of whether the doctrine of proportionality requires that Israel wait for this horror to occur, or whether Israel could act on the basis of the destructive capability of the arsenal Hamas already possesses, the hostile declarations of intent of its leaders, and its readiness to use its rocket forces already. Alan Dershowitz noted two years ago: "Proportion must be defined by reference to the threat proposed by an enemy and not by the harm it has produced." Waiting for a Hamas rocket to fall on an Israeli school, he rightly notes, would put Israel in the position of allowing "its enemies to play Russian Roulette with its children."13

The fundamental fact is that in fighting terrorism, no state is willing to play Russian Roulette. After the U.S. was attacked on 9/11, the Western alliance united to collectively topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan; no one compared Afghan casualties in 2001 to the actual numbers that died from al-Qaeda's attack. Given that al-Qaeda was seeking non-conventional capabilities, it was essential to wage a campaign to deny it the sanctuary it had enjoyed in Afghanistan, even though that struggle continues right up to the present.



Is There Proportionality Against Military Forces?

And in fighting counterinsurgency wars, most armies seek to achieve military victory by defeating the military capacity of an adversary, as efficiently as possible. There clearly is no international expectation that military losses in war should be on a one-to-one basis; most armies seek to decisively eliminate as many enemy forces as possible while minimizing their own losses of troops. There are NATO members who have been critical of "Israel's disproportionate use of force," while NATO armies take pride in their "kill ratios" against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Moreover, decisive military action against an aggressor has another effect: it increases deterrence.14 To expect Israel to hold back in its use of decisive force against legitimate military targets in Gaza is to condemn it to a long war of attrition with Hamas.

The loss of any civilian lives is truly regrettable. Israel has cancelled many military operations because of its concern with civilian casualties. But should civilian losses occur despite the best efforts of Israel to avoid them, it is ultimately not Israel's responsibility. As political philosopher Michael Walzer noted in 2006: "When Palestinian militants launch rocket attacks from civilian areas, they are themselves responsible - and no one else is - for the civilian deaths caused by Israeli counterfire."15

International critics of Israel may be looking to craft balanced statements that spread the blame for the present conflict to both sides. But they would be better served if they did not engage in this artificial exercise, and clearly distinguish the side that is the aggressor in this conflict - Hamas - and the side that is trying to defeat the aggression - Israel.

* * *

Notes

1. For numbers of rockets, see Dore Gold, "Israel's War to Halt Palestinian Rocket Attacks," Jerusalem Issue Brief, Vol. 7, No. 34, March 3, 2008, Institute of Contemporary Affairs/Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=1&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=442&PID=0&IID=2049&TTL=Israel's_War_to_Halt_Palestinian_Rocket_Attacks. See also December 2008 publications on www.intelligence.org.il.

2. Robert Berger, "Israeli Official Warns of Growing Hamas Military Threat," Voice of America News, voa.com, May 17, 2008, http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-05/2008-05-17-voa23.cfm?CFID=85151341&CFTOKEN=44257801.

3. "News of Terrorism and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict," Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence Heritage and Commemoration Center (IICC), December 16-23, 2008, http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/ipc_e006.pdf.

4. "Intensive Rocket Fire Attacks Again Western Negev Population Center and the Ashqelon Region after Hamas Announces the End of the Lull Agreement," IICC, December 21, 2008, http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e018.pdf,

5. "Secretary-General Urges Immediate Halt to Renewed Israeli-Palestinian Violence," UN News Service, December 27, 2008, http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=2425&Cr=Palestin&Cr1=.

6. "World Reacts to Israel Strikes in Gaza," Deutsche Welle, dw-world.de, December 28, 2008, http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3905288,00.html.

7. Brazil Criticizes Israeli Attack on Gaza: Special Report: Palestine-Israel Relations," China View, http://www.chinaview.cn/, December 28, 2008, http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/28/content_10570016.htm.

8. R. Higgins, cited in "Responding to Hamas Attacks from Gaza - Issues of Proportionality Background Paper," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, March 2008, http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Law/Legal+Issues+and+Rulings/Responding%20to%20Hamas%20attacks%20from%20Gaza%20-%20Issues%20of%20Proportionality%20-%20March%202008.

9. Abraham Bell, "International Law and Gaza: The Assault on Israel's Right to Self-Defense," Jerusalem Issue Brief, Vol. 7, No. 29, January 28, 2008, Institute for Contemporary Affairs/Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=1&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=442&PID=0&IID=2021&TTL=International_Law_and_Gaza:_The_Assault_on_Israel's_Right_to_Self-Defense.

10. Ibrahim Barzak and Amy Teibel, "Israeli Assault on Hamas Kills More than 200," Associated Press, December 28, 2008, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians/print.

11. William Safire, "Proportionality," New York Times, August 13, 2006, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/magazine/13wwln_safire.html.

12. Office of the Prosecutor, International Criminal Court, The Hague, February 9, 2008, http://www.icc-cpi.int/library/organs/otp/OTP_letter_to_senders_re_Iraq_9_February_2006.pdf.

13. Alan Dershowitz, "The Hamas Government Has Declared War Against Israel: How Should Israel Respond?" Huffington Post, March 14, 2008, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/the-hamas-government-has-_b_91630.html.

14. Richard Cohen, "...No, It's Survival," Washington Post, July 25, 2006, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/24/AR2006072400808.html.

15. Michael Walzer, "How Aggressive Should Israel Be? War Fair," The New Republic Online, July 31, 2006.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 4:23 pm
"Did Israel Use "Disproportionate Force" in Gaza?"

The answer to that question is Yes, in the negative seeing as Israel has not yet used enough force to stop the State sponsored Hamas terrorist from trying to kill Israeli civilians. Once that objective is reached it can be said that Israel has used enough force.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 4:56 pm
Well as usual anyone who disagrees with israel or its supporters is to be bludgeoned to the ground in this case beneath a ton of waffle. Those who talk a lot hide the truth!

Thursday January 1, 2009, 6:01 pm
The ship tried to run a blockade. And was very rightly stopped.

But I think that those who compare anti-Zionists to anti-Semites are incorrect. One can disapprove of the creation and maintenance of the State of Israel without hating Jews. Those are two separate issues. And it isn't fair to label them automatically as haters of Jews (though some may be, of course, while others aren't.)

Thursday January 1, 2009, 6:20 pm
Wow! I guess you don't know that blockades are illegal under international law, not that that particular nicety would bother the Israelis.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 6:40 pm
Yes I'm aware that blockades are against international law. And if Israel has recognized that particular portion of international law (as the U.S. has) then it is guilty of breaking a law.

But not of breaking the bounds of common sense. Which says that in times of war a blockade is a very effective means of preventing the shipment of arms and other goods to one's opponent. Just as the Union forces very understandably blockaded Southern ports during the Civil War - a very good tactic which helped to bring great hardship to my own ancestors and may have helped to end the war sooner due to shortages of many necessities in the Confederacy.

I wonder if suicide bombings and rocket launches into neighboring nations are also against international law? Must look that one up....

Thursday January 1, 2009, 6:44 pm
Free Gaza boat Dignity was in International waters when attacked, but that didn't matter either did it.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 7:02 pm
As it was unequivocally headed for Gaza, no - that makes no difference from a common-sense standpoint.

Like every nation fighting a war, Israel is willing to cut legal corners when deciding how to fight and win that war. Just as Hamas does.

Thursday January 1, 2009, 7:04 pm
We seem to have been joined by a rather ugly troll. I wonder how long it will take for CARE2 to zap his post after everyone reports it?

Thursday January 1, 2009, 7:44 pm
The war against Israel is not for the purpose of eliminating Jews of nationality but for the purpose of ridding the world of those Jewish Sabbathkeepers. They are a thorn in the side of all religions. Zionism is about a state, Sabbath is about the memorial of Creation. Eliminate all those who would Remember the Sabbath Day in reverence then false Religion and Atheism will have won the battle, to their own demise.

I do not hold with those who preach that a new temple will be built as it is not Biblical BUT the horrors of people being killed by both sides is caused by apathy and that apathy is by the rest of the world. It seems that everyone wants Israel stopped but who is stopping Hamas? I think a few priorities should be put in place before the finger pointing. Kill Jewish Children, that is OK but do not kill any of the purpetrators families, that is a NO NO.

I think that enough information has been presented showing the one sidedness of this horrific war for all to see just who needs to be called into account. How many of you all would sit by and just let your children and families be continually pounded with death? Not too many. The Jewish people who took on destitute land and built something out of it are now being asked to give it all back with all their hard work not being taken into account.
How many of you would willingly give up your home which you had built from a wasteland up to a productive enterprise? Not too many, you would want some recompense for your hard work. Those people are entitled to fight to protect themselves. They started with next to nothing and built something for not only themselves but for the Palestinian People and gave a much better quality of life for all. Now, when they are protecting that which they have worked hard for, everyone wants them to step back and give it up to those who did nothing with it in the first place.

What would happen to it when they got it back? Return it to its original degenerate state then exult in the fact that they had driven out that hated sect, the Jews. Who is trying to fool who?

Friday January 2, 2009, 12:42 am
I agree that Israel belongs to the Jews because God gave it to them. I do NOT agree with the IDF and Israel Jews treating the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews! Two of my best friends are Jewish and I have 3 online Jewish friends that are avid Israel supporters. No one can accuse me of being anti-semitic because I am not. My Jewish friends and reading emails from Israel have taught me a lot. I also have done much research into this whole ordeal myself. 1st of all this hate goes clear back to Abraham's wife Sarah and her servant Hagar. Jewish scholars agree that Islam came from Ishmael, Abraham's oldest son. Once God allowed Sarah to have a baby in her old age, she did not want Ishmael around any longer because he might have the birth right. Sarah banished Hagar and Ishmael to the desert to die. However God promised to spread Ishmael's seed and he did. The fact is that the Jews and Palestinians hate each other. They have hated each other for so long that I don't personally think they would know what to do with peace! They constantly blame each other for the wars but neither one is innocent! I wish the Palestinians would just move to one of the big Arab places surrounding Israel but they have been there many many years also. Let me clue you in on a few things I have learned though. If you do not agree with Israel they will say you are anti-semitic. If they know you are not anti-semitic then they will say you are falling for muslim propaganda, LOL! Even if you do not read or listen to muslim propaganda! I Certainly don't listen to the propaganda of Israel or Palestine! If Israel is caught on tape murdering innocent people they will apologize IF they can not remove the evidence and then claim they were not in the area at the time, then they do this: then they simply say the tape is "staged." I am not saying that the palestinians never have made a "staged" tape but I guarantee you that a great deal of them are not staged. I have seen the IDF lie time after time about things they did like slapping, kicking and beating up Palestinian adults and kids! There are many tapes out there that were filmed by Americans. UK persons, Canadians, etc. The IDF is no better then the Palestinians! Hate equals hate and there is no better form of hate! Ive seen pretty much all of the tricks from people backing Israel and I know there are some awful Palestinian people too. You can not force peace with violence! Personally I think they are pretty much hopeless! Maybe some younger generations on both sides will start to breed out the hatred IF we are all still here.

Friday January 2, 2009, 1:08 am
GOD gave them the land?????

Friday January 2, 2009, 5:59 am
Yes Jackie, God gave them the land BUT, and this is a very big BUT. Through His Servant Moses, God warned the Children of Israel just what would happen if they did not meet the ruling set down for their peace in this land that was given them. If you read through the Old Testament you will find that time after time the Prophets are calling the erring Israelites to return to what the promise was and to keep their side of the bargain. If they did not honor and serve God but chose to go their own way, then suffering and destruction would come upon them. The rest is history.

I am of Jewish origin myself so I too am under this same jurisdiction. If I do not honor God, I can fully expect the curses to come my way as well. Moses was shown down through history to the time of Jesus and he saw the problems that would arise and warned his people of this. They did not keep within the parameters of the promises and by default, suffered. God took them back into their land again and encouraged them to follow the admonition given them by Moses. Being sinful humans, they followed their own ways again after the initial remembrance had worn off. they were given 490 yearss to get their act together and in that time their Messiah came but was rejected by the leaders because He had the audacity o point out that we should treat our fellow man with respect and this was taking away the grip of the leaders from having such horrendous power over people. They broke many laws to get the crucifiction under way. Three and a half years later, the prophecy was complete. The Jews as a nation were no longer the Chosen People. Some 36 years later their country was taken from them and they were dispersed to other countries by the Romans.

All services that were involved with the sacrifices in the Sanctuary were no longer relevant. The Lamb of God, The sacrifice for sin was completed in the sacrifice of Christ. His resurrection was the promise that everything Moses had said WOULD be fulfilled.

The nation of Israel today does not abide by the original warnings of Moses, they are a group of people who can trace their ancestry back to Abraham and many of those in Israel today endeavor to hold to their origins at least with an outward show. Many now and secretly abide by the rulings laid down by Moses and these are the Real children of Abraham through the son of Promise who was Isaac and NOT Ishmael.

I have no argument with Ishmael, he was the product of how the Zionists work today, I must do it MY way. BUT, the land did belong to the children of Israel for well over 1,000 years as their inheritance. This is why they believe it rightfully belongs to them. The land was given to the line of Isaac and not Ishmael. By default there remains a question as to who it rightfully belongs to.

I could be very wrong but it seems that the new state of Israel was set up to entice all the Sabbath Keeping Jews back there and when sufficient were there, the motion to exterminate them was begun. That is just as horrible as the killing of the Palestinians. The cause of this slaughter is something that is organised by another sinister group who wish to get the land for themselves and they care not how many are slaughtered along the way.

Friday January 2, 2009, 9:19 am
How did we get that the Jews are treating the Palestinians like Nazi's?
1) There are no Nuremberg laws in Israel
2) There are no extermination camps in Israel
3) No one is conducting "medical" experiments on them
4) Arabs born with in the "Green Line" can vote and have ministers in the Kinneset

This is a horrible comparison.

Friday January 2, 2009, 10:12 am
well, who ever the land belongs to....why can they not just find a way to live together instead of killing each other? Would that not be best for both sides? All this fighting is really about human ego and stupidity no matter what group has what ancestry.

Friday January 2, 2009, 10:17 am
Very sensible remark, Jodi. Israel is a prosperous nation thanks to 60 years of hard work. And all could share in that prosperity if Hamas and its supporters could simply accept the existence of Israel and decide that all should work together for the betterment of the entire population of the region, both Israeli and Palestinian. Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as any other citizen and the Palestinians could be an equal part of that nation if they choose. All this killing benefits no one.

Friday January 2, 2009, 10:51 am
Thanks Lindsey...Hamas has to accept Israel? ok.. Well, if Hamas has to accept Israel, then what is it that Israel needs to do for Hamas/Palestinians that would make them feel like they are equal? Surely these people are not fighting over nothing.... Because if Hamas has to do all the conceding I don't see that working, that is probably why that is not a solution for them so far??

Friday January 2, 2009, 11:02 am
Jodi, Arab Israelis are equal under Israeli law. The have the rights of citizens of that nation.

I don't see more than three practical choices. Either cease hostilities and add the Palestinians as full citizens of Israel with the same rights as any Jewish citizen; cease hostilities and acknowledge that there are two separate nations which must respect each other's borders; or continue the fighting until hell freezes over.

Unfortunately, Hamas has since its founding decades ago consistently stated that it will not accept the existence of the state of Israel. That Israel must be obliterated. And the obliteration of the Israeli state is not a practical option as one can hardly expect Israel to cooperate willingly in its own destruction.

Unless Hamas acknowledges the fact that Israel exists and will continue to exist, either Hamas will have to be overthrown in a bid for peace or the fighting will continue.

Friday January 2, 2009, 11:12 am
Put another way:

The United States was stolen from the American Indians by European settlers. No doubt of that fact - and no doubt that it was utterly wrong.

But we're not going to give it back, even though it wasn't ours to take in the first place. And that refusal isn't based on moral grounds but on practical ones. The U.S. exists. And will continue to exist. Descendants of those European settlers can't just go back where they came from nor are they likely to agree to turning over control of the entire country to a particular group.

What we have done is given full citizenship to American Indians and accorded them the same rights as any other American.

In much the same way, Israel has no historical right to its land. No question about that. But it is there. That's a simple fact that Hamas must accept - because that fact and that nation aren't going away.

Friday January 2, 2009, 11:18 am

Press TV: Israeli foreign minister (Tzipi Livni) also says that Israel wants to negotiate peace with what she calls moderate Palestinians. On the other hand, we see Mahmoud Abbas saying that peace talks are meaningless under the current situation wherein Israel is targeting all Palestinians, so where does that leave Israel?

Finkelstein: Well we have to be clear what Israel means by moderate Palestinians. The Hamas leadership in recent years has signaled that it is willing to negotiate a two-state settlement according to the June 1967 border and also the resolution of the refugee question. That means that Hamas has signaled to do what the international community has wanted Israel to do over the past 30 years.

Israel rejects such a two-state settlement because it wants to continue its control of the West Bank. So for Israel a moderate Palestinian means the one who rejects all the terms proposed by the international community, a Palestinian who rejects the position of Hamas. For Israel a moderate Palestinian is a Palestinian who is willing to do whatever Israel wants: is a Palestinian who is willing follow Israeli orders.

Press TV: Observers say that a ceasefire is the best Israel can achieve from this. How is the war affecting Israel?

Finkelstein: It is hard to say that whether Israel is in a position for a ceasefire. If Israel accepts the ceasefire I don't think Hamas would accept it if the Gaza blockage continues. It was due to the continuation of the Gaza blockade that Hamas rejected renewal of the truce with Israel. If the blockade is not lifted it is just a slow death for the Palestinians. If Israel agrees to lift this blockade along with a ceasefire then it will in effect have given in to the conditions that it refused last week. So it's really unclear that Israel would propose a ceasefire that Hamas would accept and vice versa.

Press TV: Israel says that its war is with Hamas, but it has prevented the flow of international aid into Gaza and prevented journalists from covering what is going on there. There is a saying Persian if you cannot help then don't prevent help from others.

Finkelstein: Well we have to be clear that Israel's war is not with Hamas but with the international community, including Iran. Israel is defying the international community, including Iran on the two-state settlement.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=80218§i

Friday January 2, 2009, 11:51 am
Lindsey....so really all Hamas wants to do is kill Israelis? I find it hard to believe that as humans being all they want to do for the rest of existence on this earth is kill and die. Most people who have children want nothing more than for their children to be happy and safe.

Even though the US has taken this land from American Indians that still does not mean that they are treated as equals or respected as humans beings want to be respected and need to be... so even if Hamas were to accept Israel there would be hostility between the 2 groups anyways as they are not accepted or respected?

I am just throwing questions out there...trying to understand....Israel does not respect Palestinians as a group of people, just as Hamas does not respect Israel? This is more of a matter of being treated as equals? Is that really what Hamas wants to be equals? They may have vowed from the beginning to always kill Israelis but why? Maybe if that issue were addressed then peace could really be found and they could co-exist......these groups have been fighting for so long both groups souls are blackened, hardened.....it would take great mediation to help them solve things and by putting political agendas aside...politics often gets in the way of real progress?

Friday January 2, 2009, 11:55 am
My argument, Jodi, was solely designed to say that unless Hamas accepts the reality that the state of Israel will continue to exist then no peace is possible. Because Israel will continue to exist. And Hamas' unwillingness to accept that is a major stumbling block on the road to peace.

Friday January 2, 2009, 12:02 pm
Lindsey...I understand that. I just meant that neither group will find that peace unless both are considered equals....there is an issue from the very beginning of time of all this mess that has not been addressed that will keep this fighting going....I am trying to figure out what that issue is. And It is not completely about the land.

Friday January 2, 2009, 12:11 pm
Unfortunately, Jodi, as you well know, although it's easy to legislate equality under the law it is impossible to force a change in the way people view one another. That's something which just takes time, effort, and education on the part of people themselves.

And things do change, though sometimes more slowly than they should. In my own U.S., we now have a black President-elect. When, in my own lifetime, legalized segregation of black people was the norm in many parts of my country. The hostility and prejudice towards Jews in America is certainly far less than it used to be in the days when so many hotels wouldn't accept Jewish patrons or clubs wouldn't accept them as members, and the like. Social acceptance of the equality of women has made great strides in this country although we are still woefully deficient in many ways.

Just as it will take time for old hatreds and prejudices in the Middle East to subside and begin to change for the better. Both in Israel and among the Palestines. And in so many other places there where anyone who is not a Muslim is automatically treated as a second-class citizen, both legally and socially.

Age-old prejudices aren't going to change overnight. They can't and nothing that we do or say is going to make that happen. It just has to be worked on, bit by bit, over the years.

Friday January 2, 2009, 2:03 pm
Who are the Hamas and where do they originate from? I am told that they are from many countries around, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine etc., who don't want them, they are outcasts. Gaza was given back to them by Israel. The Hamas have tunnels through to Egypt, they have tunnels under a lot of Gaza and people living above these tunnels have no idea that underneath there is movement and storage of piles of weapons. I am also told that Israel gives 10-15 minutes notice to Hamas of where they are going to bomb so that people can get out. It is not the people, it is the arsnal of weapons and those who mastermind the bombings into Israel that are targeted. Unfortunately, as with all wars, the innocent are hurt. I can conclude that if we go back to the beginning of time, nothing is new with wars, tribal or countries the only thing I see that has changed is technology and all that that encompasses. A pity religion divides people - if religion was taken away I wonder how the human race would be towards each other. I once heard 'the animals have no beliefs or a God it is only the human race that need beliefs.' I bet if the people of the Middle East were to DNA themselves, they would all find themselves related - brothers, cousins fighting each other!

Friday January 2, 2009, 2:14 pm
Of course they're related to one another, Pam. They evolved from the same common ancestors, after all. Just as you and I are related, however distantly.

Unfortunately, their own holy Koran helps to convince them of the inferiority of Jews (and Christians):

Surah 7:166 - Speaking to Jews - "When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be you apes, despised and rejected." See also Surahs 2:65 and 5:60.

Surah 5:54 - "O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people."

Surah 9:30 - "And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

And, of course, the Christian Bible and the Talmud aren't much better in places.

DNA unites us. And religion and cultural mores divide us.

Friday January 2, 2009, 4:09 pm
OH YES religion ruins us all.....people can not see truth for religious non-sense. At the same time, when one part of us is waring, it harms us all as a whole.

Friday January 2, 2009, 7:59 pm
So David R and others try to connect anyone who disagrees with US-sponsored Israel foreign policy to Adolph Hitler and the Nazi party, huh?

It's too bad that isnt recognized as the *real* hate speech being purported here. That is all the Israel Apologists can do, is claim anyone who disagrees with them is a Nazi.

Friday January 2, 2009, 8:03 pm
Lindsay, you write as if the people who lived in the land now labeled "Israel" up until the middle of last century dont exist, or arent actually people.

Israel's entire purpose is to create turmoil in the middle east. That policy will never change until the loonies see the WW3 they all crave.

Israel saying they want "Peace" is like the US saying they want "peace" in Iraq.

Friday January 2, 2009, 8:43 pm
Wait just a minute. Palestinians before the State of Israel was formed were a mix of Sephardic Jews and Arab Moslems and Christians. The Zionist settlers with the aid of the Rothschild family bought about 8% of the land from absentee landlords and threw tenant farmers off the land and would not hire Arabs. The stage was set in the 1880s for European Jewish settlers. Zionism limped along because most Jews did not want to give up life in Europe for precarious back breaking toil in the desert. The Nazis were the tool used by Zionism to get rid of inconvenient rabbis who felt a Jewish State was an abomination. Jews would get their homeland when the Messiah came. To make one before God's messenger and sign was considered to go against God's wishes.

Palestinians do not believe that they should forfeit their land to compensate Jews for Europe's crimes against them.

"Through all the years of exile, pious Jews as individuals were attracted to reside in the Holy Land because of its innate holy character and the opportunity it offered for the observance of various precepts bound in the land. Jews as a whole continue to pray that the Al-mighty return his Divine presence to the Land of Israel, by the coming of the Messiah, who will build His Temple, from whence will emanate Divine Wisdom and ultimate spiritual fulfillment of the entire human race.

Through the many years that Jews resided in the Holy Land for this purpose, they enjoyed tranquil and cordial relations with the non-Jewish population there.

The Zionist movement which was formed at the latter part of the last century, sought to endow the Jews with a nationalistic character which was heretofore strange to them. It sought to deprive them of their historically religious character and offered in substitution of faith in G-d and adherence to the Torah, and belief in their ultimate redemption by the coming of the Messiah, a nationalistic ideology and the possibility of establishing through political media, a Jewish national homeland.

During the period of the British Mandate, the Balfour Declaration, which recognized the eventual possibility of founding a Jewish national homeland, in Palestine, was affirmed to be the British government. The Jewish Agency, who then was the Chief representative of Zionist interests in the Holy Land, was entrusted with the issuance of visas to the Holy Land, thus resulting in an increased Zionist immigration from various parts of the world, which ultimately succeeded in superceding in numbers, the veteran Orthodox dwellers.

Orthodox Jewry all over the world and the Orthodox Community in the Holy Land in particular, immediately sensed in this stage of Zionist success, the threat of grave danger for the religious future of Jews. The Arab inhabitants began to exhibit open hostility to their Jewish neighbors. The British government failed to distinguish between the Orthodox community, who for generations in habited the Holy Land, and the newly arrived Zionist immigrants."

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/history.cfm

Friday January 2, 2009, 8:44 pm
On the contrary, Walkadelic, I don't believe I've said anything to imply that those who lived in Palestine prior to the creation of Israel aren't "actually people". As I've said time and time again, my disapproval is over Hamas, its active supporters, and its actions. And I have said that Israel's land was stolen from the people who lived there before the creation of the Israeli state. But that people have to be realists and understand that a nation isn't going to disband itself for any reason whatsoever.

Just as the U.S. isn't going to disband its government and give the whole country back to the American Indians from whom it was stolen, so Israel is not going to give back their land and ask its citizens to just leave or live under total Palestinian rule.

I recognize the reality of the Palestinians. They're people, just like anyone else. But if their Hamas leaders will not accept the existence of the Israeli state and plan to go on fighting until it is no more, then they're going to be fighting forever.

Friday January 2, 2009, 9:36 pm
Lindsay, that is the usual projection. Israel has no intention of allowing a two state solution, so it pretends it's all the fault of Hamas.

"The answer is because Israel has no intention of allowing a viable, sovereign Palestinian state on its borders. It had no intention of allowing it in 1948 when it grabbed 24 per cent more land than what it was allotted legally, if unfairly, by UN Resolution 181. It had no intention of allowing it throughout the massacres and ploys of the 1950s. It had no intention of allowing two states when it conquered the remaining 22 per cent of historic Palestine in 1967 and reinterpreted UN Security Council Resolution 248 to its own liking despite the overwhelming international consensus stating that Israel would receive full international recognition within secure and recognized borders if it withdrew from the lands it had only recently occupied.

It had no intention of acknowledging Palestinian national rights at the United Nations in 1974, when –alone with the United States—it voted against a two-state solution. It had no intention of allowing a comprehensive peace settlement when Egypt stood ready to deliver but received, and obediently accepted, a separate peace exclusive of the rights of Palestinians and the remaining peoples of the region. It had no intention of working toward a just two-state solution in 1978 or 1982 when it invaded, fire-bombed, blasted and bulldozed Beirut so that it might annex the West Bank without hassle. It had no intention of granting a Palestinian state in 1987 when the first Intifada spread across occupied Palestine, into the Diaspora and the into the spirits of the global dispossessed, or when Israel deliberately aided the newly formed Hamas movement so that it might undermine the strength of the more secular-nationalist factions.

Israel had no intention of granting a Palestinian state at Madrid or at Oslo where the PLO was superseded by the quivering, quisling Palestinian Authority, too many of whose cronies grasped at the wealth and prestige it gave them at the expense of their own kin. As Israel beamed into the world’s satellites and microphones its desire for peace and a two-state solution, it more than doubled the number of illegal Jewish settlements on the ground in the West Bank and around East Jerusalem, annexing them as it built and continues to build a superstructure of bypass roads and highways over the remaining, severed cities and villages of earthly Palestine. It has annexed the Jordan valley, the international border of Jordan, expelling any ‘locals’ inhabiting that land. It speaks with a viper’s tongue over the multiple amputee of Palestine whose head shall soon be severed from its body in the name of justice, peace and security.

Through the home demolitions, the assaults on civil society that attempted to cast Palestinian history and culture into a chasm of oblivion; through the unspeakable destruction of the refugee camp sieges and infrastructure bombardments of the second Intifada, through assassinations and summary executions, past the grandiose farce of disengagement and up to the nullification of free, fair and democratic Palestinian elections Israel has made its view known again and again in the strongest possible language, the language of military might, of threats, intimidation, harassment, defamation and degradation.

Israel, with the unconditional and approving support of the United States, has made it dramatically clear to the entire world over and over and over again, repeating in action after action that it will accept no viable Palestinian state next to its borders. What will it take for the rest of us to hear? What will it take to end the criminal silence of the ‘international community’? What will it take to see past the lies and indoctrination to what is taking place before us day after day in full view of the eyes of the world? The more horrific the actions on the ground, the more insistent are the words of peace. To listen and watch without hearing or seeing allows the indifference, the ignorance and complicity to continue and deepens with each grave our collective shame.

The destruction of Gaza has nothing to do with Hamas. Israel will accept no authority in the Palestinian territories that it does not ultimately control. Any individual, leader, faction or movement that fails to accede to Israel’s demands or that seeks genuine sovereignty and the equality of all nations in the region; any government or popular movement that demands the applicability of international humanitarian law and of the universal declaration of human rights for its own people will be unacceptable for the Jewish State. Those dreaming of one state must be forced to ask themselves what Israel would do to a population of 4 million Palestinians within its borders when it commits on a daily, if not hourly basis, crimes against their collective humanity while they live alongside its borders? What will suddenly make the raison d’etre, the self-proclaimed purpose of Israel’s reason for being change if the Palestinian territories are annexed to it outright?"
Excerpt from
RELATED STORIES >>

If Hamas did not exist

Israel Has No Intention of Granting a Palestinian State

If Hamas Did Not Exist

01.01.2009 | CounterPunch
By JENNIFER LOEWENSTEIN

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2327

Friday January 2, 2009, 9:50 pm
Who's the terrorists? Disgraceful.

Saturday January 3, 2009, 12:09 am
Judy, you are amazing..., I finally get to read in your reply some points that I am familiar with, regarding this region prior to Israel's statehood. The Jewish and Palestinians have bloodlines that can be traced back to similar originations of the population, at that time. Zionism, which I believe was formed to supposedly help give some stature those in Israel of more power and growth, actually is what created this mess. I agree they have no intention of sharing Jerusalem with the Palestinians, and I believe that is because of some holy writings stating that it can never be divided. Please correct me if I am off a bit, in my memory of researching this stuff years ago...lol.

Jerusalem, seems to be the treasure that both sides profess claims too, and is what seems to be the obstacle of reaching any agreement to what portion of this region with be Israel, and what portion will be the homeland for the Palestinians. It is like a Civil War gone Wild..errr...Insane. It is so wrong that these "elites" of Israel have used war as a way to purge the region of people because they don't follow Jewish traditions, but who many have the same ancestry. This is what is so outrageous to me.

I see a bigger picture. The elites using genocide in any manner or way, in any nation, that they need to attain their goals for the New World. May the divine hosts take this one over.

Very noted, and thank you Jackie.

Saturday January 3, 2009, 2:33 am
Hey David R! Watch exhibit #4 on this link. Listen to what the IDF soldier says but this is hardly the only instance I have seen where the IDF treats Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews. You do not have to have gas chambers or other Nazi "tools" to treat Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews. It's how they view the people and what they say about them. Of course they wouldn't dare use gas chambers, etc like the Nazis did, today! Watch the last video;
http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me5.html
I asked one of my friends from Israel if she road a camel that she had a picture taken of her by. She about had a heart attack, lol! It's a lice infested animal that the filthy Arabs use like fed X, she said. Another Jewish friend of mine about had a heart attack because I dared compare the Palestinians to the Israeli Jewish. I do not think it is unfair to say that the Israeli Jews look at the Palestinians much like the Nazis looked at the Jews. Here is another video concerning the murdering IDF.
http://brasschecktv.com/page/515.html
Brasscheck is simply a media organization that supplies news that the main media does not. Look up it's history for yourself. And Brasscheck is hardly the only place I get news and videos. Oh, that's another thing my Jewish friends love to do, lol and that is if the news media happens to show a video or print some news that is not sympathetic to Israel, then they are anti-semitic, lol! They hate the NY times, BBC, and other new sources, LOL! However you will always get the best news from sources that are not federally funded or controlled. Be sure to watch both videos in this message please. Have a nice day everyone!

Saturday January 3, 2009, 6:26 am
Amazing how a tolerant and non-prejudiced person like yourself, Marty, has so many extremely racist and unpleasant friends. I tend not to befriend those who are self-proclaimed bigots.

Saturday January 3, 2009, 12:23 pm
It is very clear who the religious extremists are.

When a group of people claim God gave them a piece of land and they use that as justification to ethnically cleanse an area, I think they qualify as religious extremists.

Palestinians lived on this land for many generations and the Zionists took it through terrorist methods (raiding villages, bombing population centers, violent threats, etc).

While groups are now fighting with methods that shouldn’t be used, it is not unreasonable for Palestinians to resist this ethnic cleansing. Would you fight back if someone showed up at your front door and told you God promised your land to them?

Israel’s latest bombardment of Gaza is sickening and the world should not just stand by and watch. We must look through the bias in the media and see that Israel is the real extreme aggressor in this conflict.

A multi-billion dollar, state of the art military is pounding an impoverished and hopeless people. This needs to stop NOW!

Saturday January 3, 2009, 2:24 pm
If the US was not arming and funding the entire Israeli military, this fight would not be occurring.

If the US, through the use of the UN, had not created "Israel" as a "Nation" on stolen land, this would not be occurring.

Who is to blame here? The victims of zionism, or the perpetuaters of it?

Saturday January 3, 2009, 5:59 pm
Incase its not so well known...Elections coming up soon in Israel too...Barak, Livni and Netanyahu all competing for the Human Rights Abuse against Palestinians prize!

Sunday January 4, 2009, 2:12 am
Lindsey, I DON'T Hang around with bigots because I do not like prejudice at all, whether it's against skin color, nationality or sexuality. The only prejudice people are my Jewish online friends. They are not prejudice against most things though, just Muslims. My personal friends in real life are NOT prejudice or they would not be my friends. I think we all probably have family or friends though that we love but are not exactly tolerant. I argue with these loved ones all the time when I see them. I did not make those videos nor did I say the things the IDF soldiers said. So before you assume things, ask. My personal opinion is that all children worldwide should be taken from parents that teach them bigotry. The only way to stop hate is to stop passing it on to children. Children are not born with prejudice and hate, it has to be pounded into their heads from an early age. Prejudice certainly is not confined to any geographical area. Here we have the KKK and several Neo-Nazi type groups.