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The Muslims of Norway

Society & Culture  (tags: world, conflict, Norway, Norway's Muslims, religions, society, religion, culture, 'HUMANRIGHTS!', 'CIVILLIBERTIES!', politics, rights, world, ethics, government, freedoms, society, news, society )

- 2464 days ago -
Last Friday's terrorist attacks by Anders Behring Breivik against Norway's central government district and a political youth camp of the Labor Party targeted not only the Norwegian political system but the very idea behind Norway's multicultural society a

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. (0)
Wednesday July 27, 2011, 3:46 pm
As with any minority group looking for personal, economic freedom, I would expect the same from the Muslims who have chosen to live in Norway. If you have chosen to live in a democracy, you need to abide by the rules of that democracy.
I find it offensive that a Muslim group can enter a country, and ASSUME their culture will be absorbed into the culture of that country.
Clearly, if they were happy with their lives in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, they would have never left.

pam w (139)
Wednesday July 27, 2011, 4:37 pm
I agree. When you choose a new country, you need to adopt its culture as your own.

patricia lasek (317)
Wednesday July 27, 2011, 5:42 pm
The growth of Norway’s Muslim community has created tensions with the country’s native population. In recent years, some non-Muslim Norwegians have raised concerns about the Muslim traditions of circumcising newborn males, slaughtering animals according to Islamic dietary laws, and, for women, wearing a hijab.

This was enough for me. It sounds like congressman Peter King (R).
" King Opens Third Committee on Homeland Security Hearing on Radicalization, Focusing on al Shabaab - al-Shabaab is engaged in an ongoing, successful effort to recruit and radicalize dozens of Muslim-American jihadis - 7/27/2011 - See More on his website.

He and his ilk promote fear and loathing instead of peace and brotherhood.

Can anyone say Nazi?

Aletta Kraan (146)
Wednesday July 27, 2011, 6:44 pm
Noted , thanks !!

Rose B (141)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 12:07 am

Helena B (2)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 7:32 am
Allan Yorkowitz ; Thsi si from the article above:-
Norwegian Muslims seem to have integrated more effectively and in less time than Muslims in other Western European countries. They have close relations with other minority groups and are engaged in the society at large. They are active in the country’s political parties and cover the entire political spectrum, but tilt toward the ruling Labor Party because its socio-economic positions benefit them more than other parties’ policies do.

Most immigrants regardless of religion are normally poor. It makes intergartion hard.
Makes me laugh when I look at my fellow Brits abroad who have moved to Spain etc. They rarely have Spanish friends, can't speak the language, have whole communities full of them and their own shops and bars.
I think non intergrationists can come from anywhere.

beatrice d (124)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 2:08 pm
what difference does it make who rapes a woman? does a rape by a muslim have more/less importance?
what about the woman?
christians, atheists, hindus, never raped? does a woman feel better if she is raped by a certain cathegory?
the koran also claims not to rape (need to check the sura) and the fact that an idiot "pakistani muslim admits women have no rights or opinions in islam" is just an idiot.
talk to any imam (the serious ones) and no one will ever confirm this.

Mary P (157)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 3:00 pm
Archarya - your comments are BS!!! Islam prohibits rape and
ill-treatment of women is CONDEMNED, in the Quran. Stop spewing
False Information from Islam-Hate Sites. Research for Facts before,
You, regurgitate BS, about Beautiful Islam, which honors and respects
Women, giving them Equal Rights. Its Ignorant and Sic Men, who
Abuse and take away, Rights of Women, BTW this women
Abuse, takes place in ALL COuntries, All Religions and NON religions,
All Races and All Cultures. Mainstream Media Hides it when others
Committ atrocities against women BUT HIGHLIGHTS it ONLY,
When its done, by evil people, under the Label of Islam; Actually
Performing UNISLAMIC ACTS. These Evil people Do NOT represent
NOT represent Christianity.

Mary P (157)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 3:10 pm
BTW CAL, NOT All MUSLIM WOMEN, in Norway are dressed, as those women, in your
Picture; there are many MUSLIM WOMEN, in Norway, who dress up, as the Norwegian
Women Dress!!! Peace,

Hilary S (2)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 3:10 pm
Beatrice d. - I think you've missed the point, If all the rapes reported in Oslo were committed by Muslim men, don't you hear the bells ringing? Obviously a woman would not choose to be raped. Australia has had the same problem as I'm sure have many other Western countries. An Imam in Sydney OPENLY proclaimed that Western women were like uncovered meat and were fair game for sex attacks.A lot of what some Mulims practise is not in the Koran, and they do not follow it to the letter of the law!

Bruce Van Tassell (7)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 4:36 pm
Are we sinking globally into a Cursades type mentality? This smells of " Intolerance" the movie not so silent in real life hoods burning cross'. Will the knights of templar make an appearance too. One thousand years and what has changed?

Mary Donnelly (47)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 4:43 pm
Thanks Cal, again.

Kit Barth (1)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 5:00 pm
What I don't seem to understand is, the worse mass murders are almost always white males and who claim to be christians. Hitler,bundy,gacy,manson and Pres. dick halliburton and his moron osama w shrub. The have killed more Americans than muslim terrorists. So where is the outrage when the killers look like everyone around. It is great to be white. Send your outrage now.

Sharon F (0)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 5:17 pm
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."


When you move to another country, adopt their culture. If you don't like the new culture, stay home!
Kudos to the Norwegians for vowing to keep their open, peaceful culture.

Kenneth L (314)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 6:33 pm
Don't confuse what an insane person like this Norwegian murderer thinks about anything in particular with anything having to do with rational thinking about muslims etc. That would be a mistake. Lots of people have very strong ideas and they don't murder regarding it. Big difference.
You have a psychotic who uses some twisted thoughts in his head to murder, that's it.

You then have rational people trying to apply rationality to it. It won't work. There is no rationality in a psycho who kills 80 people.

Angela Weber (27)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 9:44 pm
Thanks for the post.

Mary P (157)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 9:53 pm
Pat - does the BIBLE teach PRIESTS to sexually MOLEST little boys and girls' ?????? If YOUR
Answer is NO; then WHY do they sexually Molest??????

Does the TAURAH, teach the Zionist Government to STEAL, BOMB
Innocent men, woman and BABIES??????? If NOT; WHY then do they do it?????

Does the BIBLE teach GOP to promote HATRED of Muslims???? IF YOUR
Answer is NO; then WHY do they do it????

innocent men, women and CHILDREN, in Afghanistan and Iraq???? If YOUR
Answer is NO; then WHY ???? are they doing it and WHY ??? are self righteous
people, like You and fellow Muslim HATERS, allowing them, to
ROAM FREELY on this PlAnet!!!

And embraced by your SOCIETIES; especially in europe and america!!!

Is this NOT double standards and hypocracy????

Turn a BLIND EYE , to the GLARING SINS of your OWN, but quick to
Of ISLAM, for the evil acts, of a handful of RADICAL Extremists.!!!

STOP!!!! with your Propaganda, Lies and Bias, remove Your inner
Fear and Hatred ; its UGLY!!! Are the deaths of 80 norwegians NOT enough???
Do you want to CREATE More, WHITE TERRORISTS, and Mass Murders of your
OWN People, with all your blatant LIES and spewing out, by
You and others like you, of all the FALSE NEWS About ISLAM And MUSLIms,
From, jewish owned, mainstream Media And islam hate sites??????

Mary P (157)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 10:12 pm

PAT, do some REAL Research; and you will find YOUR CIA Agents, behind
All the Happenings, in YOUR List of countries!!!! Divide and weaken,
Is their modus operandi; and then CONQUER and CONTROL, all their
RESOURCES. It has NOTHING to do with ISLAM!!! Religion, is JUST
A WORD, the American Government EXPLOITS, to manipulate the MAsses, to look the
Other way; while they MURDER, millions of men women and children,
With their NATO bombings and DRONE attacks; under the guise and
FALSE pretext of 'Protecting the civilians'

pam w (139)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 10:13 pm
BEATRICE...with all respect, I have traveled in eight Muslim countries and can tell you that women have few or none of the rights men have! They're shrouded, kept at home, can't participate in public life, are often forbidden to work and, frankly, those BURKHAS turn them into invisible lumps of walking laundry!

It's all well and good to talk about how the Quran or "beautiful Islam" but, travel to countries where it reigns and you'll see a very different face. Islam isn't just a religion--it is a political system which seeks to control every facet of life in those countries!

I realize the "politically correct" folks here may take issue with my statement, but IT IS TRUE!

Raen L (19)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 10:34 pm
AS with most religions there are extreme factions, so you cant just say that Islam is all bad because a few extremists choose to twist the Quran to jusitfy their own ideals. There are Sunnis and Shia's and a host of other Islamic groups..the same as in Christian society there are a huge number of groups that have altered the Bible to suit their own ends and means. Having just returned from Morocco myself I saw more of a modernized culture and the Islamic people are now more a mix of western and Muslim in dress and behaviour..that was obvious and apparent, so what needs to be done is that we dont put all Muslims under the one banner, its like saying all Catholic priests are paedophiles its ridiculous,use intelligence and investigate the group that instigated the crime/attacks and get the facts straight, its ludicrous to believe that all Muslims are the same... because they arent..its blatant ignorance to say it is. Unless you are a Muslim you have no idea what you are talking about..fact!! I dont tout that I know anything about Catholicism so why would I make statements in regard to that unless I had been bought up as one and had thorough and personal knowledge about its workings..the same goes for Islam..if you are not Muslim then you do not have a place inciting fear or prejudice of this group of people. As for the Burkha if you dont have to wear one whats the problem ?? to each his own, thats whats wrong with the world too many people trying to impose their views and ideals on others...these murders in Norway were committed by a white man who hates Muslims and multi culturism so how is that the Muslims fault?? absolutely outrageous .. Muslims cant win can they?? they are either directly to blame for attacks or are the blame because some twisted moron hates Islam.

Hilary S (2)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 10:57 pm
Mary P - you should get a grip on yourself and stop ranting. Look at the trouble spots in the world and tell me that Muslims are not involved - Aceh, Mindanao, Kashmir and quite a few more. I don't see too many reports about Christians V Hindus, Buddhists V Shintoists etc. I have lived in 2 Muslims countries and had no problems whatsoever. However, I beleive that if Muslims cannot assimilate they should stay where they came from. If Islam is so good, why did they leave a Muslim country to live in a non-Muslim country? And then try to turn their new country into a Muslim one? Beats me - they should have stayed put!

Hilary S (2)
Thursday July 28, 2011, 11:10 pm
Mary P, and while I am on the subject don't tell me I am anti Muslim. I have been a supporter of the Palestinians for some time and have a number of Mulsim friends abroad, BUT I don't want them coming to my country only to have them tell me I am an infidel and my life is worth less than theirs because I am not a Muslim. The Koran says killing is a not acceptable, but killing an infidel is definitely not in the same league as killing a Muslim. Check it out and tell me I'm wrong...................

Friday July 29, 2011, 2:41 am
I am always bemused by the ranting and raving that emanates from the religionists of some faiths in defence of their god and their beliefs. To suggest that their special omnipotent being requires constant praise, affirmation and even violent physical support from mere humans is surely to relegate this being to the ranks of the most insecure of humans? That sounds very much like blasphemy – surely?

Stan B (123)
Friday July 29, 2011, 3:27 am
Mary P. You post the same boring rubbish on just about every thread and most of us aren't buying it.
Don't try to equate the atrocities committed world-wide by your co-religionists with what civilized countries do to defend themselves against the evil of radical Islam.

Robert Garvin (46)
Friday July 29, 2011, 4:18 am
It seems that the Muslims are not happy in Palestine. they bomb the Israeli's until they have had enough and are forced to retaliate to try and stop the continual bombing. We are looking at things as they are now, not how they have been over the last four decades or so. When the Israeli's gave up certain territory that they had improved at their expense, there is a greater demand for more.

Now we have had an upsurge of demands for democracy in so many other countries that are traditional muslim, so they are not happy there either. It seems to me that there is much more behind this whole problem than just Moslems. There is a strong political problem but many people do not even consider that.

My Father was Irish. He came to Australia and landed the day that the Queen was born. Before he came here there was an uprising of the Catholics in Northern Ireland and they would kill ANY Protestant that took their fancy. They were encouraged by the Priests to fight for their country to be returned to the Catholic State. I think Irish people (whether Catholic or Protestant) are wonderful people. There are so many Irish jokes that go round and everyone has a laugh at the supposed stupidity of the Irish. Most of those jokes are made up by the Irish anyway, so, there is no such thing as an Irish Joke---They are all true! LOL The Irish can laugh at themselves.

When we look at all the troubles around the world in recent times, it is mostly Muslim nations that are full of unrest. Methinks that the whole purpose of this is to create war to kill of a large amount of the population and it seems they (those who benefit from the war machine) are doing a fantastic job of setting Christians and Muslims at one another's throats.

It can not be legislated to make one change their nature. We are fed disunity all the time and so what else can we expect? Disunity. There is coming a time in the very near future that everyone will be forced under some type of law to worship only on a certain day and that day is Sunday> What about the Moslems? How will they respond to that? Or the Jews who worship on Saturday? (Well, those that still do. The Moslems keep friday, probably more strict than any Christian keeps their day.

There are those who use religion as a cover for their nefarious activities and it does not matter whether it is Christian (well, they call themselves that) Muslim Atheist or whoever. Lies are propagateds as supposed honesty from ALL directions. We can not legislate ANY person to be good. It has to be their own choice and i do not see many people who are perfect. Everyone has it built into them to do the wrong thing. Christianity SHOULD be the most forward in teaching folks to do the right thing. Unless they actually get right away from their supposed "superior" mentality, they are no better than any other religious stirrer.

Mary P (157)
Friday July 29, 2011, 4:19 am
Hey, All you Islam Haters; please, do carry on, with your HATRED, and know that, no ways,
Is it going, to HARM Islam and its Followers; the only ones, that will experience a BACKLASH
Due to your FEARMONGERING and spread of your Hatred, are innocent VICTIMS , like those of the White, christian
Norwegian TERRORIST. Good luck to you all, allow your inner cancer of Hatred, to engulf
Your souls; that's, if you do possess one, in the first place.

Stan, no one, is forcing you, to read my comments, on all different threads; LOL, seems to me like, YOU find them
FASCINATING !!! Is that WHY, YOU read All of them ???

Mary P (157)
Friday July 29, 2011, 4:48 am
HILARY, " I have lived in 2 Muslims countries and had no problems whatsoever."

THANK YOU, Hilary. Do you think, you would even be, ALIVE, today,??? to make the above statement,
IF the "KILL the Infidel" was meant, to be applied , to every Present time, NON -BELIEVER!!!

Nem van genne (6)
Friday July 29, 2011, 7:01 am
i basically just agree with kenneths comment ''You then have rational people trying to apply rationality to it. It won't work. There is no rationality in a psycho who kills 80 people.'' i also agree with kat..and it was one of the first things i said when i heard about the killings..another crazy white man killing innocent people.

Hilary S (2)
Friday July 29, 2011, 7:12 am
Mary P - Why do you take EVERY post the wrong way? Do yourself a favour and read through all the posts on this subject. I think you will find that you, as a Muslim, seem to have the narrowest and most intolerant view of all. Others state their case in an orderly fashion - you rant. In regard to your latest post, if you're going to quote me, get it right. I got on well in Muslim countries because I respected the people and their way of life, after all I was in their country. I did not say Kill The Infidel - go back and have another look -with an open mind.

Acharya Sanning (5)
Friday July 29, 2011, 8:30 am
Archarya - your comments are BS!!! Islam prohibits rape and ill-treatment of women is CONDEMNED, in the Quran. Stop spewing False Information from Islam-Hate Sites. Research for Facts before, You, regurgitate BS, about Beautiful Islam, which honors and respects Women, giving them Equal Rights. Its Ignorant and Sic Men, who Abuse and take away, Rights of Women, BTW this women Abuse, takes place in ALL COuntries, All Religions and NON religions, All Races and All Cultures. Mainstream Media Hides it when others Committ atrocities against women BUT HIGHLIGHTS it ONLY, When its done, by evil people, under the Label of Islam; Actually Performing UNISLAMIC ACTS. These Evil people Do NOT represent ISLAM, just as this CHRISTIAN NORWEGIAN TERRORIST, does NOT represent Christianity.

I posted a video of a news item from Youtube - how is that a "hate site?" I also posted a factual article from my blog, which is not a "hate site." Your denial of the misogyny and rape within Islam is frankly dishonest, as is your Islam defense in general. Islam is very misogynistic and sexist - those of us with eyes to see can see it. The Koran is full of hate speech against women and non-Muslims - why aren't you ranting about that fact, rather than attacking me with falsehoods and fallacious "tu quoque" or "you too" arguments? Yes, of course, bad things happen all over the world; however, Islamic doctrine makes all these atrocities legal, whereas they are illegal in civilized countries.

Here are quotes from the Koran and hadiths that millions of Muslims have been following for centuries as "eternal edicts." Talk about hate speech!


"This Book is not to be doubted.... As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them." Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

"God's curse be upon the infidels! Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God's own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers." Quran 2:89-2:90

"Lord...Give us victory over the unbelievers." Quran 2:286

"Lord...give us victory over the unbelievers." Quran 3:148

"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." Quran 8:12

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Quran 9:5

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Quran 9:73

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." Quran 9:123

"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another..." Quran 5:51

"He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost." Quran 3:85

"Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful - he that does this has nothing to hope for from Good - except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return." Quran 3:28

"Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.

"Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'" Quran 22:19-20

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." Quran 48:29

"Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise." Quran 4:56

"Let not the unbelievers think that they will ever get away. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of God and your enemy..." Quran 8:59-60

"Believers, know that the idolaters [non-Muslims] are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended." Quran 9:28

"The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." Quran 98:6


"They ask you about menstruation. Say: 'It is an indisposition. Keep aloof from women during their menstrual periods and do not approach them until they are clean again; when they are clean, have intercourse with them whence God enjoined you....'" Quran 2:222

"Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please." Quran 2:223

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34

"A male shall inherit twice as much as a female." Quran 4:11

"Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses..." Quran 2:282

"[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves." Quran 4:24

[In other words, menstruating women are unclean, and men must stay away from them. Women are men's "fields," and men can have sex with them whenever they want. Men are superior to women and have authority over them, while women must obey men or risk being beaten. A woman is worth one-half of a man. Muslim men can own sex slaves.]


"The righteous shall return to a blessed retreat: the gardens of Eden, whose gates shall open wide to receive them. Reclining there with bashful virgins for companions, they will call for abundant fruit and drink." Quran 38:51-2

"God has purchased from the faithful their lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for the cause of God, they will slay, and be slain. Such is the true promise which He has made them in the Torah, the Gospel and the Koran...." Quran 9:111

"As for the righteous, they shall be lodged in peace together amid gardens and fountains, arrayed in rick silks and fine brocade. Even thus; and We shall wed them to dark-eyed houris." Quran 44:51-54

"On that day [the unbelievers] shall be sternly thrown into the fire of Hell . . . But in fair gardens the righteous shall dwell in bliss, rejoicing in what their Lord will give them. Their Lord will shield them from the scourge of Hell. He will say: Eat and drink to your hearts content. This is the reward of your labours.

"They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris [virgin girls] We shall wed them. . . . Fruit We shall give them, and such meats as they desire. They will pass from hand to hand a cup inspiring no idle talk, no sinful urge; and there shall wait on them young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls." Quran 52:13-24

"Reclining there upon soft couches, they shall feel neither the scorching heat nor the biting cold. Trees will spread their shade around them, and fruits will hang in clusters over them.

"They shall be served with silver dishes, and beakers as large as goblets; silver goblets which they themselves shall measure: and cups brim-full with ginger-flavoured water from a fount called Salsabil. They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who to the beholders eyes will seem like sprinkled pearls. When you gave upon that scene, you will behold a kingdom blissful and glorious." Quran 76:9-20

Quotes from the Hadiths or Records of Mohammed's Deeds and Words

"The Prophet...said: I am commanded to fight with men till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is His servant and His apostle, face our qiblah (direction of prayer), eat what we slaughter, and pray like us." Sunan Abu Dawud 14.2635

"...the Apostle of Allah [said]: He who goes forth in Allah's path and dies or is killed is a martyr...and will go to Paradise." Sunan Abu Dawud 14.2493

"The Prophet...said: Our Lord Most High is pleased with a man who fights in the path of Allah..." Sunan Abu Dawud 14.2530

"Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] said, 'I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.'" Sahih Bukhari 4.52.220

"The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives." Sahih Bukhari 7.62.6

"The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)." Sahih Bukhari 7.62.88, 7.62.64

"Once Allah's Apostle went out to [offer the prayer]... Then he passed by the women and said, 'O women! Give alms, as I have seen that [b]the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)[/b].' They asked, 'Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle?' He replied, 'You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.' The women asked, 'O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?' He said, '[b]Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?[/b]' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'" Sahih Bukhari 1.6.301

Acharya Sanning (5)
Friday July 29, 2011, 8:33 am
That first paragraph in my comment above should be in quotations marks, as I'm quoting "Mary P." I tried to use html, but it was not accepted. I also see no way to edit or delete comments, unfortunately.

Acharya Sanning (5)
Friday July 29, 2011, 8:40 am
It also appears as if my original post has been removed - is this how it's going to go? Censoring factual posts that were not personal attacks? Are we already under sharia law? Apparently the rights of free speech are being denied to non-Muslims?

Here's what I said, before my important factual information was removed:

"Obviously, the behavior of the Norway madman is reprehensible. As concerns Muslims in Norway, however, there is reason to be concerned. Just weeks before this attack, the news had reported that all rapes in Oslo had been committed by Muslim men, at least one of whom justified the attack as part of his religion.

Oslo: ALL Assaults involving Rape commited by Non-Western Men

Pakistani Muslim rapist admits women have no rights or opinions in Islam

Acharya Sanning (5)
Friday July 29, 2011, 8:50 am
By the way, my first comment here about the Oslo rapes received five green stars - yet it was apparently removed. Is that democratic?

pam w (139)
Friday July 29, 2011, 9:58 am is possible to write something less than lavish praise about Islam and not be a "hater." It's not "hate" to say that Islam is more than a religion--it IS a complete political system! THAT IS THE TRUTH. Seems to me you're overeactive at best and possibly looking for a fight.

Helle H (21)
Friday July 29, 2011, 10:49 am
All I can say is, if I go to a muslim country I'm not allowed to follow my traditions, so I would have to cover my hair and what else is forbidden by the religion. That's why I don't go there.

monica r (41)
Friday July 29, 2011, 11:58 am
As to rape, it is forbidden to rape MUSLIM women. See Rob and Jay or Acharya's posts to understand a Muslim woman by definition can't be raped by her husband. He can force her to have sex against her will and even beat her do do so, but because his right in Islam is for her to be available sexually to him ANY time he says, it is NOT rape. Just a husband getting his rights.

There is plenty in their posts also, so I won't quote the quran/hadith again, but it is permissible to use non-Muslim women as sex slaves and raping them is neither rape nor adultery in the eyes of Mohammed. It still would feel like you got raped to the infidel woman, but the prophet doesn't call it that, so neither does Islam.

Beth S (330)
Friday July 29, 2011, 1:09 pm
By the way, we don't visit "hate sites." These are information sites that collect information from media articles and examine Islamic texts (without the obvious suspension of disbelief mentality that Muslim's have).

No sources express any attempt to tell people to do violence to Muslims. Some go out of their way to implore just the opposite - to have respect for Muslims.

Hate sites regarding Islam are, however, almost the exclusive domain of Islamists, who have produced people flying into buildings, killing thousands of people, an Egyptian pilot plunging his passenger jet into the ocean yelling "Allahu Achbar", blowing up trains and subways full of people, a Muslim psychiatrist shooting his fellow soldiers while screaming "Allahu Achbar," and many, many thousands and thousands of other examples.

I imagine if people didn't feel threatened by the daily acts of carnage, death, violence, disgusting disrespect for the lives of others committed by followers of Mohammad around the globe, we probably wouldn't be here warning people of its dangers.

Mohammed was a ladies man. Undisputed historical sources list no less than twelve wives, most of them concurrently, ranging in ages from 6 to 65, married for reasons ranging from cementing alliances with allies such as Abu Bakr, to simple lust, as in Aisha's case. Then there is the awkward historical fact that one of his wives, Maria al-Qibtiyya, an Egyptian slave, who, according to non-Muslim historical sources, became pregnant with the Prophet's son before they were married (the son, Ibrahim, did not live long after birth).

However, these incidents occur after the Medinan period, in which we see Mohammed having God say some very interesting things. Just as his vast career of lust starts picking up, God comes down just in time and tells Mohammed that he, and he ALONE, is exempt from laws regarding polygamy, as we read in the Koran 33:50 .

Later in that same Surah, we see that Mohammed's wives alone were forbidden from remarrying after his death (33:53), which is a little bit awkward because Mohammed married 10 widows. The personal motivation here is clear and obvious; why do so many Muslims just take it in stride that God's desire that Mohammed alone be exempt from polygamy be expressed right after Mohammed starts shacking up with all sorts of women in Medina?

Mohammed's own vast and numerous adulterous relationships, as hinted throughout suspiciously non-canonized Muslim texts such as those of al-Tabari's history of Islam, become almost meaningless when we see that Islam offers clear exemption from sin for Mohammed. Of course they can say that he is perfect: everything imperfect he did is excused directly by God!

We see even more of a sense of the personal motivations that Mohammed may have had in authoring the Koran in the militarism that its later passages show. Famous Muslim-turned-atheist Ibn Warraq, author of the bestselling "Why I Am Not A Muslim" writes of the "ruthless fanaticism into which the teachings of the Prophet was fast drifting [3]" in the Medinan period. Another story, recounted by Ibn Ishaq, tells of one man who was tortured by having a fire on his chest kindled with flint and steel until near death, at which point Mohammed beheaded him and took his wife as a concubine [4].

The early Koran was silent on such military matters as torture, but the verses revealed after the meteoric rise of Islam as a viable military force amongst the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula offer a wealth of provisions for murder and massacre. The Hadith 5:59:32 [5] also tells of a charming incident in which Mohammed had as many as 900 unarmed POWs simply beheaded, and the women and children sold into slavery.

Beth S (330)
Friday July 29, 2011, 1:38 pm
"AS with most religions there are extreme factions, so you cant just say that Islam is all bad because a few extremists choose to twist the Quran to jusitfy their own ideals."

Sorry, the majority of Muslims worldwide, say polls, agree with Jihad against non-Muslims and the establishment of a worldwide caliphate. The injunctions to violence and killing are so numerous in the Qur'an, that rather than twist the texts, this is actually the majority view. bin Laden was a venerated hero, the pride of Islam, around the Islamic world.

In addition, the more peaceful sects of Islam like the Sufis and Achmadis, are being slaughtered by majority sects of Sunnis, Salafis, Shia, who find Sufis and Achmadis disrespectful or heretical. Most of the more peaceful Muslims sects don't have a chance of surviving the majority's tyranny.

Sandra T (126)
Friday July 29, 2011, 5:19 pm
Dear Mary, ( Jazakallah khair), but I don't think you even need to be on here, please have a look at the very familiar names. Heck, these days it's common language to demonise Muslims,interestingly enough always by the very same people right here on care2.

Each has an 'opinion' about our holy book and about Muslims and Islam in general. I have been there Mary and done all that. We have got a multitude of scholars on this thread it seems, who are able to tell us why the verses of the infidels were revealed and who they were about etc. etc. We also have lots of scholars on this thread who know all the interpretations . They have sat down for months at a time with several well known translations and transliterations as well. :)

My dearest beloveth sister Mary, we are starting our Holy Month of Ramadan in a couple of days. I think we should invest our time and energy in something far more worth wile during this holy month. I know I will, no hatemonger and Islamophobe is going to distract me any longer, my time is precious, and as you know very well Mary, hate always destroys the hater from within eventually.

Any of these persons here can go have a look at the thread to which I will post a link. Ameer has pretty much said it all in that thread. So sweet sister, on that note RAMADAN KAREEM ! Love, Peace and blessings to you and your entire family.

pam w (139)
Friday July 29, 2011, 5:49 pm
No offense, ladies, but I can't find a single comment here which DEMONIZES Islam. Is it more fun to play the martyr?

Richard Zane Smith (81)
Friday July 29, 2011, 7:21 pm
the same hate/fear technique continues...list sins , and list target scriptures that feed fears and suspicions.
selective dirty laundry is a indication of dangerous hate-fear spreading diseases..

these kind of arguments are strange...because similar scripture interpretations exist in ancient texts in many religions.The same could be done with the Bible, list all the heathens Jews were instructed to kill, multiple stonings demanded by the pre-incarnate Christ, Yahweh. (Christ Claimed to be "I AM" and Christians believe God and Christ are One ,"in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God. and the Word became Flesh" The letter to the Colossians attributed to Apostle Paul says that Christ is Creator. ) So though Christians quote "Love your enemy" they rarely quote "utterly destroy the Amalekites,spare no woman or child..etc.." even though its believed to be voiced from the same GOD/Christ who is "the same yesterday today and forever."
Solomon had 700 slave women and 300 wives ...oh but we've been here before and i think i don't want to list "sins"...why should I?
because i know There are wonderful God loving Christians and Muslims who live by Grace and Mercy,no longer bound to barbaric torture and past warrior society cultural ways unacceptable to us today.


Richard Zane Smith (81)
Friday July 29, 2011, 7:28 pm
I think its amazing people saying "adapt and assimilate to the country you are moving to!"
You mean the same way europeans assimilated themselves into North American native peoples cultures?
the Way the British assimilated into India? or South Africa? or Australia? Are these the examples of totally assimilating into the culture ones leaves homelands for and to move among? Or are you saying Conquerors are the only ones who have a right to NOT assimilate and to demand all minority people assimilate into them?

Riyaz R (45)
Friday July 29, 2011, 9:01 pm

WoW! what a Gathering of Islamic Haters,seems all anti-muslims morons of care2 communiity are having Tea Party and putting all evils in their society on muslims.The day is not far when these morons will say that Greek and euro debt crisis are beacuse of muslims immigrants,will belame muslims on American Debt deadlock,The causes of Global warming is due to muslims...extra extra .
The problem is that western model of society has failed and you are not ready to accept that,instead you search for scape goat for your problems. and muslims are best option.
It is very esay to blame others,but it is very difficult to accept responsibilty.

Mary P (157)
Friday July 29, 2011, 9:17 pm
Thank you SANDRA and RICHARD for your insightful and Enlightening comments. YOU both
Said everything, that needed, to be said. Enough precious time wasted

I just want to give All commentators a Big (((HUG))) and say I LOVE YOU
ALL, for you all, are beautiful creations, of the Merciful LORd; I look
Past YOUR Hatred, and see wonderful human beings, WITHIN.
I apologise, if I offended any on you, with some of my words, but that
Was NOT my intention.

And to the REST OF MANKIND. TAKE CARE you all.

Calle J (19)
Friday July 29, 2011, 9:20 pm

What have muslims to do with this insane terroristS?
Actually, witnesses reported there were at least 3 killers.
Wonder, where you posted this article.
Or does a blonde, blue-eyed right wing nazionalist kill his own fellow citizen?
This was a false flag to establish the NWO in Norway, so far an independent and rich country, making own decisions. PM Stoltenberg, after the assaults immediately claimed he would meet terrorism by MORE DEMOCRACY!
If this is not a threat, I wonder.

My, oh my Cal,
Another great muslim bashing article!

Tired of promoting Global Warming and spreading fear of nature?

But if you want it or not Cal, you work for awakening people.
Gentle people start to realise the lies they been told 24-7 by selective copy-paste fear mongring posters or blogs.

If we don't realise soon, God did never create races but females and males (Genesis 1, 1...) and these separations are steered by those in power to divide the masses and fight each others, while in meantime elites steal all the money, resources, hope and faith, humanity is doomed.

Riyaz R (45)
Friday July 29, 2011, 9:22 pm
Islam is the Way of Life. Please understand it with open mind...your Perception will indeed change.

Stan B (123)
Friday July 29, 2011, 10:19 pm
" Islam is the Way of Life " is it Rihaz. Perhaps for you but not for me.
Take a look at the link below and tell me what you think of these views of Islam.

Happy Ramadan.

Riyaz R (45)
Friday July 29, 2011, 11:09 pm
Blasphemy is weapons used when you cannot fight Iintellectually, Emenies of islam are using these tactics since seems to loser that you employ these dirty tricks. feeling sorry for u.
Hatred is weapon of devil...u seems to be in wrong path... Actually, u are diseased, In coming Ramadhan, I will pray to Allah(swt) to cure u and show right path ...Ameen
... Thanks Ramadan wishe....r Ramadan Mubarak to u also

Riyaz R (45)
Friday July 29, 2011, 11:10 pm
@ Stab b
Blasphemy is weapons used when you cannot fight Iintellectually, Emenies of islam are using these tactics since seems to loser that you employ these dirty tricks. feeling sorry for u.
Hatred is weapon of devil...u seems to be in wrong path... Actually, u are diseased, In coming Ramadhan, I will pray to Allah(swt) to cure u and show right path ...Ameen
... Thanks Ramadan wishe....r Ramadan Mubarak to u also

Riyaz R (45)
Friday July 29, 2011, 11:12 pm
@ Friends
Please Pray for Stab B and Co.
As they are suffering from disease of Hatred and evil

Past Member (0)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 5:48 am
thanks, noted

. (0)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 7:01 am
Mary P, you state, "....Beautiful Islam, which honors and respects
Women, giving them Equal Rights....."

Unfortunately that isn't true. While the Koran was, in terms of women's rights, progressive for the time in which it was written (and is certainly more progressive with regards to women's rights than, say, the Christian Bible), it does not give women rights equal to men's. A man may have multiple wives - a woman may only have one husband. A woman's testimony in certain respects isn't equal to that of a man's. A woman is entitled to less in the way of inheritance than a man. The Koran states that a Muslim shouldn't marry an unbeliever; however men (and only men) are given an exception in that they may marry a woman who is Christian or Jew. A woman may only have sex with her husband - a man may also have sex with captive women taken in war. Men are a "degree above" women.

The Koran does indeed promote better rights for women than many other religious texts but it hardly promotes actual equality. And unfortunately majority-Muslim nations seem to be far more likely to ignore what's actually written in the Koran and have legal and societal systems that oppress women really significantly and in ways that violate the dictates of the Koran. Traditional cultural attitudes about the inferior status of women are so strongly entrenched that it's like pulling teeth to get the male half of society to change his attitude. Women here in the Western nations are luckier in that our societies have gotten better at "dentistry" in recent years (although even here individual attitudes are taking awhile to catch up to the equal rights we enjoy under civil law).

Vijay Tankha (28)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 7:27 am
Are people aware that no one can go to Saudi Arabia as a tourist, not there's anything to see other than sand ! Yet the Muslim population all over the world have made inroads into every country, practise their religion just as in their own country and even try to govern themselves according to Shariah law.
Why are they tolerated ? It's only when something drastic happens that people wake up and feel that they need to be reined in. It's always too late by the time we wake, they are already firmly ensconced and ready to take over the country by sheer numbers. They are a blight to which ever nation they emigrate to. When will the world wake up?

. (0)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 7:42 am
I hadn't been aware that Saudi Arabia doesn't allow ordinary tourism, Denise. After I read your comment, I checked out the State Department's website and they confirm that (although tourists who are part of government-approved tour groups with officially-sanctioned itineraries are allowed.) Of course, the Saudi government's position in that regard is very sensible. Open up your borders to tourism and you open them up to lots of new ideas - that may cause some of your own subjects to start asking questions and perhaps feeling just a tad dissatisfied with the current situation there.

Brenda Towers (0)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 12:02 pm
I am in favour of multi-cultural societies, but believe that if people move to another culture they should adapt to that culture, or stay in their own country.

wooddragon xx (88)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 12:39 pm
Cheers Cal...

Stand Up To Hate!

Thursday, 28 July 2011
Norway shooting: Anders Breivik sent 'manifesto' to supporters of BNP, English Defence League and Combat 18

Supporters of the BNP, the English Defence League and Combat 18 were among the recipients of Anders Breivik's 1,500-page manifesto which he emailed to contacts 90 minutes before he began his murderous spree.

The Daily Telegraph has learned at least 250 British-based contacts were sent Breivik's manifesto, in which he explains his extensive links to far-right groups in the UK, less than two hours before he killed 76 people in Norway's worst terrorist atrocity.

Already it has emerged that Breivik had made online contact with members of the English Defence League (EDL), chatting to members on Facebook and posting on the group's official website under an assumed name.

Now the Daily Telegraph has obtained a list of 1,003 email addresses which Breivik sent his manifesto to. The document was sent at 2.08pm Norwegian time on Friday, shortly before the bomb in Oslo was detonated at about 3.30pm.

While many of the addresses do not give away the identity of the recipient, some hint at membership or support of far-Right groups in the UK.

Three addresses include reference to the British National Party, while one is addressed to Combat 18, the neo-Nazi organisation. Individuals linked to the EDL are also included.

Daryl Hobson, the EDL supporter who claimed on Facebook that Breivik had attended an EDL demonstration in the UK in 2010, is on the list.

The document is also emailed to a C Donnellan. Clive Donnellan is an EDL supporter who has also spoken of his support for the BNP.

Many of the addresses contain clear right-wing references. Some include the number 88. Column 88 was a UK-based neo-nazi organisation.

The manifesto is also sent to a group calling itself the East Midlands National Alliance.

The list has been forwarded to the police by Tanguys Veys, a Belgian MP for the far-right, anti-Muslim Vlaams-Belang party. Mr Veys is on the list of recipients as are a numbers of his party activists.

Yesterday he said he was surprised to be on the list, adding: "I was connected with a terrorist act and I didn't want to be connected with a terrorist act."

Scotland Yard is believed to have been handed a copy of the list. It is thought that the force will examine whether any of the recipients had links with Breivik.

There is no suggestion that any of the British-based recipients knew Breivik or had any contact with him prior to receiving his manifesto unsolicited.

But in the document he claimed to have 600 EDL supporters as friends on Facebook.

Recently it emerged that he had posted on the group's official website earlier this year where he was told he would be welcome to attend a demonstration in Britain.

One EDL supporter said that Breivik, 32, had attended a demo in support of far-right Dutch politician Geert Wilders in London in March 2010. Breivik's solicitor confirmed that he had visited London in the past. Stephen Lennon, the EDL leader, said the group had no association with Breivik.
The Telegraph

Exposing racism and intolerance online XXVIII @

Report online Hate Crime and Abuse UK

Sign the Petition: -

I’ve just signed the HOPE not hate petition calling on the authorities to ban the English Defence League (EDL) march in Tower Hamlets in early September and I hope you will do the same.

I’m really worried about what will happen if a thousand racists get to march through the heart of East London. After all, they are only going there to whip up racism and stir up violence.

By signing the petition we are showing that the EDL are not welcome. Why should the people of Tower Hamlets pay for their march of hate.
I hope you will add your name to the petition.

Lynn Busby (26)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 5:43 pm
As a matter of interest, the percentage of Muslims in Norway is only about 4% of the population........far less than many other European countries.

Hilary S (2)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 6:08 pm
Lindsey & Denise, My partner has worked in the Middle East and i spent 3 months in Oman with him. There were no issues regarding visa etc. There is a chance he could go to Saudi Arabia to work. if that is the case I cannot go unless we marry or I receive a formal invitation from a Saudi (man I presume!). Mind you I wouldn't go even if I could. I think OIL is the answer to the tolerance you question. Another issue that irks me is that no churches are allowed in Saudi Arabia - why? We allow mosques, as do most countries, so what is their problem?

Myron Scott (70)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 7:03 pm
Siv Jensen doesn't advocate violence. ?

Myron Scott (70)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 7:29 pm
When in Rome . . . . OK, true enough. Abide by the law, of course. Respect others' traditions, sensitivities, sensibilities. But when "adapting" becomes assimilation, never forget where that can lead.
Sartre wrote, more or less, that the antisemite exists because Jews insist on their Jewishness. Taken as a criticism of Jews, that's despicable. Taken as a description of the psychology of bigotry, I find echoes of that psychology in this discussion.
And if newcomers to a country should adapt absolutely, why don't more of us have long houses or live in wigwams or pueblos or have totem poles in our front yards?

michelle t (41)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 7:30 pm
Patricia and Ed W Jones very good comments posted.I agree with you 100%. Muslims don't assimilate into other cultures.They expect the rest of the world to change to their liking.Well if they don't like it stay in the Middle East and don't invade the western world!!

Past Member (0)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 8:09 pm

valda p (13)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 9:18 pm
Islam is both a religion and a political -ideology and it's politics are supremacy ,that is the doctrines of mainstream Islam commands Muslims to work towards the dominance of their religion over all other religions,and the subjection of all people to the Islamic political system -Sharia Law,basic tenets of the faith is that loyalty to Islam takes precedence over loyalty to any Government or country.
Islam is not a race ,Islam has nothing at all to do with genetics,it is an -ideology-a set of beliefs about an individuals behavour and the rules of society,critising Islam is not rascism-Muslims are not a-race of people.--these are statements I have come across and I agree with.

William Y (54)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 9:41 pm
the Muslim traditions of circumcising newborn males, slaughtering animals according to Islamic dietary laws, and, for women, wearing a hijab.

How does this in any way affect the Norwegian people.The Muslims aren't forcing non-Muslims to adopt these measures.

Lynn Busby (26)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 10:01 pm
"Muslims don't integrate"..................another myth and absolute RUBBISH. Sweeping and untrue. I live in France...the country with the largest Muslim population in Europe. Many of my friends are Muslims. They are totally integrated, thankyou. Why do you think there haven't been loads of arrests and absolute uproar since Sarkozy imposed the burqa ban???? Because there are estimated to be only between 1500 and 2000 women who ever wore one anyway. The bigotry shown in some of these posts is astounding.

Stan B (123)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 10:13 pm
Hilary S. You say quite rightly that no churches are allowed in Saudi Arabia. Neither are crosses, bibles or any symbol of any religion apart from Islam.
You have to wonder what they are afraid of and why they are so insecure. This isn't bigotry, Lynn; it's fact.

Lynn Busby (26)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 10:30 pm
That is true of Saudi. It is not true of all Muslim countries and, even if it were, what are you saying Stan? That the fact they don't allow churches means that western countries shouldn't allow mosques? A sort of weird "tit for tat"????

Stan B (123)
Saturday July 30, 2011, 11:41 pm
What I'm saying, Lynn, is that religious tolerance is a two way road not a one way street.

Sharon Balloch (127)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 9:13 am
To leave ones country to find freedom and make a good life for yourself and your children is very hard to do. To find when you get there that you have not left racism, sexism and homophobia behind but it is alive in well in your new home must be disheartening.

I shall not forget that Muslims used their own bodies as sheilds in Egypt so Christians could attend their Christmas service. Or that Christians who died in the New Years day attack were given Muslim martyrs funerals, and attended and protected by Muslims.

We must not allow this evil man to deny the truth, as so many are doing right now, Christians have lived in the Middle East along side of Muslims for centuries.. working together. But there will always be evil men who try and divide and conquer.

This evil killer in Norway did not just hate Muslims, he hated women. He killed children. Sounds nothing like Jesus to me.

Lets not fall into this mans trap.. Lets love Muslims even more than we did before. Thats my answer to hate.

Danny Wilson (26)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 10:02 am
But don't forget to check out Ugly very ugly and world wide too.....

Ellen m (215)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 10:49 am
Wow Cal, you obviously hit a nerve here!, and i'm not up for the drama right now...thanks

Lynn Busby (26)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 11:14 am
Stan 3two way road, not one way strett3. Yeah...........right. Sounds like a fairly typical American "I know my rights" speaking from an over-priveledged and ignorant position to me. Just like..I "didn't start it.....he did!!" and "It's not fair" and "Nah, nah, ne nah nah3. If that is applicable to you, forgive me. But you will now know what it is like to be stereo-typed and treated in a superior manner by someone who is completely ignorant.

Lynn Busby (26)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 11:17 am
Sorry, that was unbelievably full of typos!! Let me translate!!!

Stan "two way road, not one way street". Yeah...........right. Sounds like a fairly typical American "I know my rights" speaking from an over-priviledged and ignorant position to me. Just like.."I didn't start it.....he did!!" and "It's not fair" and "Nah, nah, ne nah nah". If that is not applicable to you, forgive me. But you will now know what it is like to be stereo-typed and treated in a superior manner by someone who is completely ignorant!

Terry King (113)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 12:33 pm
Muslims much less problematic in Norway than Christians!

Roger G (154)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 1:24 pm

Stan B (123)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 1:45 pm
Lynn. It's not a good idea to post without first checking your facts, I am not a fairly typical American who is over-privileged and ignorant. I'm an ordinary Australian who has no delusions about what's happening in just about the whole world.
As for your last sentence. I do now!!!

Lynn Busby (26)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 2:19 pm
Stan........that was kind of the point of my post.

Kathryn F (3)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 2:26 pm
I am a Native American convert. I wear hijab, abstain from pork and alcohol, pray 5 times a day, etc. I was raised Roman Catholic and still have a very healthy relationship with my family and my friends, along with some new Muslim friends. We all get along. I do not think that Islam asks us to kill non believers. I have read the Koran. It says that if someone does not mean you harm (whatever religion they might be), do not do them harm. I enjoy a wonderfully equal relationship with my husband in every aspect of our lives. We believe the Koran does not ask us to be anything but respectful and understanding. We believe when our prophet Mohammed (pbuh) said The best of you are those who are the best to your wives" he meant it. I have been an American all my life, and I guess I didn't realize there was a dress code. I did not realize that in order to "assimilate" I needed to look and act a certain way. I think if we followed the "When in Rome" mentality, we would all be living in a very different culture than we are now, namely the culture of my ancestors. I think that we all need to take a deep breath, relax, realize that evil can be found everywhere, in every culture, every country and every way of thinking. But we can also find the most beautiful people, the most wonderful ideas in the most surprising places. I think we would benefit from smiling at a stranger and realizing that just because someone might do something I do not agree with, that is not always a threat to my way of life.

pam w (139)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 6:03 pm
Kathryn, I'm really glad you're happy with your new faith.


Look at how your faith is interpreted around the world. Look at Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Yemen....see how they treat women and non-believers?

Do you POSSIBLY think these people aren't using you?

pam w (139)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 6:08 pm
Kathryn.....I challenge you to read this site, every day, for six weeks....

If your faith is can do it without any problem, right?

Julie Kirby (40)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 6:26 pm
How about the Europeans that moved to the New World? Didn't see much assimilation there... The immigrants Christianized the Native Americans, forced laws upon them & in the US eventually rounded them up in reservations also known as interment... Didn't bother to learn new languages or customs either..

Kathryn F (3)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 7:47 pm
I know it is interpreted in different ways and that women are not treated fairly, in my opinion and in the opinion of the vast majority of Islam, not Islamicaly. There are people who treat women poorly in many, many countries and use many reasons to justify it. I haven't the slightest clue how I am being used, though. My faith is very strong and I actually do read jihadwatch once in awhile, though not on a regular basis. If I read jihadwatch, why not you read for the same period of time? :)

pam w (139)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 8:36 pm
I've seen "loonwatch" but find that it just throws stones and ridicules. Jihadwatch is dedicated to real events. There's a difference. Good luck to you, Kathryn.....why don't you go and visit a few Islamic countries and see how they treat women? Don't just walk down the streets...actually visit and discuss and live there awhile. See how much freedom of speech and artistic expression exists. See how many educational and leadership options you have in the business world. See how they treat people who leave Islam. Go to the beach and wear your modest swimwear. Buy a car and drive it. Decide on your own that you'll wear western clothing and then do it. What will happen to you?


Kathryn F (3)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 9:34 pm
I have actually been to an Islamic country twice for a total of 2 months each and I am about to go back for 3 months. Have you ever been to an Islamic country? I live as a Muslim woman every day and I have for the past 6 years. I am married to a Muslim man. I wear Western clothes. I think I am perhaps more educated in this than you seem to think I am. What I am saying is there is a difference between what some people do and what they are supposed to be doing. The Islam that I believe and the Islam that I practice, along with the Islam that the vast majority of people practice in no way condones the atrocities that you are citing. I understand that there are people out there that do terrible, terrible things in the name of Islam, but that is not the Islam I know, even the Islam I haven known in my travels. I enjoy a happy, healthy equal marriage. Just because a country or a person says they are a Muslim, does not mean they can't be corrupt, nor does it mean the religion is corrupt because of these people.

Kathryn F (3)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 10:25 pm
I would also like to add that I do not think that jihadwatch is as reputable as you think it might be. I would say that it is a far cry from fair and balanced reporting :)

Lynn Busby (26)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 10:55 pm
Agreed Kathryn.......Jihadwatch is a very biased site!!! Perhaps people should read it in conjunction with Islam Review!

AWAY AWHILE Cal M (1067)
Sunday July 31, 2011, 11:19 pm
Yesm Ellen, I have hit a nerve as you say, and folks like Carl Gustav who don't bother to see the entire portfolio of what I see as balanced are quite the opposite themselves.

I don't owe anyone here to back their viewpoints with the articles I post , so my suggestion to those who don't like to see articles like this are two in number. One--post your own
and if not 2) Turn the page and find something you like better. Surely there are many articles that Carl Gustav and others of similar bent would find more too their liking and I'll defend equally their rights to disagree with the tone and direction of any article that I posted and with my right to post the same. Both are equally important to the freedoms of press and expression that we should all hold dear but I wonder if everyone here really does>

Lynn S (235)
Monday August 1, 2011, 2:00 am
WOW!!! Is this a hot debate, but is anyone actually listening? really listening? Is anyone actually taking the time to ponder what others are saying before loading their sling and firing back?

People are people the world over --- somer are lovers, some are haters, some make peace, some make war. We need to listen, show compassion for eachother, and have respect.

wooddragon xx (88)
Monday August 1, 2011, 8:26 am
RACIST dribbling Russell been on the booze again!!

Acharya Sanning (5)
Monday August 1, 2011, 8:26 am
"I am a Native American convert. I wear hijab, abstain from pork and alcohol, pray 5 times a day, etc."

I'm wondering if you really knew what you were getting into. Do you know that if you ever decide to leave Islam, you will be marked for death as an apostate? All four schools of Islamic jurisprudence legislate death for apostates.

Do you really believe that a "good" God wants that? I have friends who are ex-Muslims - should they be murdered?

Why does the all-knowing God need you to pray five times a day? Do you know what you're saying during prayer? Are you being forced to learn Arabic?

As a woman in Islam, you are dirty, inferior to men and can be beaten by them, according to the Koran:

"They ask you about menstruation. Say: 'It is an indisposition. Keep aloof from women during their menstrual periods and do not approach them until they are clean again; when they are clean, have intercourse with them whence God enjoined you....'" Quran 2:222

"Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please." Quran 2:223

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34

"A male shall inherit twice as much as a female." Quran 4:11

"Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses..." Quran 2:282

"[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves." Quran 4:24


Menstruating women are unclean, and men must stay away from them. Women are men's "fields," and men can have sex with them whenever they want. Men are superior to women and have authority over them, while women must obey men or risk being beaten. A woman is worth one-half of a man. Muslim men can own sex slaves.

You say we can "all get along,' but Islam teaches hatred of non-Muslims, specifically commanding that you NOT make friends with non-Muslims:

"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another..." Quran 5:51

Do you know what Islam says about non-Muslims, that they will burn in eternal hellfire? Is that something you believe, and how can we all "get along" so long as you believe that?

"Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise." Quran 4:56

"The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." Quran 98:6

Do you know that Muslims around the world for the past 1,400 years have used the Koran to justify killing, robbing and raping non-Muslims? These passages are constantly being "taken out of context" and used for murder - why would God have so many hateful passages in his "holy text" to be "misunderstood" by so many people?

"Lord...give us victory over the unbelievers." Quran 3:148

"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." Quran 8:12

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Quran 9:5

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Quran 9:73

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." Quran 9:123

Did you know that in the hadiths Mohammed is depicted as "marrying" a six-year-old girl and having sex with her beginning when she's nine years old? Do you agree with such behavior? Do you think God ordained it?

"The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)." Sahih Bukhari 7.62.88, 7.62.64

Did you know that Mohammed is also said in the hadiths to have had sex with nine of his "wives" (sex slaves) in one night? Do you agree such behavior is from a "Prophet of God?"

"The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives." Sahih Bukhari 7.62.6

I'm sorry to say that if you believe all these things, we really can't "get along," because I find these things to be depraved and despicable. They are, in fact, utterly offensive to me as a female human being, and, as part of MY spirituality/religion, I will continue to educate people as to these evils, which are threatening the very fabric of human civilization.

In any event, you may wish to study Islam further:

Islam Reality Videos
The Religion of Peace
Faith Freedom
Islam Watch
Jihad Watch
Prophet of Doom
Ex-Muslim Amil Imani
Women's Rights in Islam
270 Million Murdered by Islam
Islamic Crusades

Good luck.


wooddragon xx (88)
Monday August 1, 2011, 8:29 am
Go to loonwatch it is a better read! LoL

Kathryn F (3)
Monday August 1, 2011, 9:40 am
Acharya, I am not being forced to learn Arabic. Yes I do know what I am saying during prayer. Do you know what I am saying during prayer? I am not inferior to men according to the Koran. It says many times that men and women are equal, but different. It says many times that the only difference between you, men and women, are your deeds. I wonder if you have any current Muslim friends? Many of the "hadith" that you are quoting are false hadith. Are you just looking these things up online? Have you ever read the Koran in its entirety? Maybe you have, I don't know. You don't have to agree with me, but I certainly do not agree with your quotes of the Koran that truly are taken out of context as there is no context surrounding them, and your interpretation. It is not meant to be read as quotes picked out of the page, but as a whole. Most of us adamantly do not agree with your interpretation. Maybe you should, on the other hand, read some websites that counter balance the ones that you have given me to read in order to gain some perspective on other people's interpretations, not just the ones of the people you read. I hope much luck to you as well.

Kathryn F (3)
Monday August 1, 2011, 9:42 am
Also, wikipedia is not a reliable source, as anyone can change the information at any time to anything they want. :)

Helena B (2)
Monday August 1, 2011, 10:34 am
Living iin a multi-cultural city, I think it is lazy language and lazy thinking to imagine that it is only Muslims who preserve their religious and cultural dress. On any day I can pass many people who do exactly the same. When I was growing up in London in the 70's it was the Sikhs and their turbans (men covering their hair for modesty) which attracted attention. If you go to North London it will be the Orthodox Jews displaying their identity (they have even had an Eruv since 2003). The Nigerians in their beautiful colourful clothing, Bhuddists dressed in orange, the Hari Krishna crowd with drums and cymbals I could go on.
We are all different! By all means have different religions and cultures but can everyone get over it and stop arguing? Pointing the finger and generalising about millions of people. with sweeping statements.
Can people find some compassion and understanding?
Honestly, if you are a white American or Australian have you accepted the cultures of the original inhabitants?
When people move to a new country most want something familiar to hold onto, food they had at home etc.
I missed cheddar when I lived in France. I certainly did not appreciate being treated like an outsider by some, who thought I shouldn't be there and slagged off as they thought I didn't speak French. It made me miserable. Try putting yourself in others shoes as sometimes as it fosters understanding.

M B (62)
Monday August 1, 2011, 12:48 pm
The article about Muslims says also:"The Muslims in Norway are highly diverse, hailing from a wide range of geographical and religious backgrounds. Norwegian Muslims seem to have integrated more effectively and in less time than Muslims in other Western European countries"...

Elias Ayad (49)
Tuesday August 2, 2011, 12:13 am
I have one statement.

Hate mongering and Islamophobia is the real reason behind the massacre in Norway. and the real party and the real beneficiaries behind it are already known. So please stop spreading the hatred and racism, to not be responsible for other massacres.


Rose B (141)
Tuesday August 2, 2011, 12:17 am
we are all equal PEACE FOR ALL

Jay S (116)
Tuesday August 2, 2011, 9:14 am
Kathryn F, you sound like a nice person. We have very nice Muslim friends & a raving exMuslim friend who hates Islam more than anyone could imagine (he was molested for years by his imam & when he finally told he had to flee to Spain because he was accused of 'offending Islam'!). But your beliefs you express are not what Islam teaches. It is hard to believe you've ever read the Qur'an if you can still say it is all about hugging & love & equality for women. And it would be a surprise to any knowledgeable Muslim that the hadith are worthless. They are not. To believe in this benign version of Islam is to be a heretic. The few scholars who have suggested reforming Islam to be more like what you claim to believe in are all living under death threats.

You, like our Muslim friends, want to cling to the few nicer verses from the early years but you know they were all abrogated by the much harsher, hatefilled later ones. If you don't, you are living a fairy tale. Our Muslim friends are the first to admit they are a very distinct minority who believes Islam should be reformed & all the killing & hate be swept away, but they can't say that very loud, as you should know.

You didn't say which sect of islam you follow, but when you dismiss Bukhari out of hand as not being true you are dismissing the most authentic Hadith writer accepted by almost all Muslims. His writings are accepted along with the Qur'an by 90% of Muslims.

You must know enough to know how twisted & perverted Mohammed made the Jewish/Christian scriptures. His blasphemy of Jesus is amazing & how you Muslims just carry on with no concern for the devout Christians you have offended. Mohammed said Jesus wasn't the Son of God, wasn't crucified, wasn't resurrected. You know the story of Jesus so you know what Mohammed said is laughable. He didn't know enough of the Jewish or Christian scriptures or theology to copy them correctly so he invented a great dodge Muslims all have memorized - if anything in Judaism or Christianity differs from Islam/Qur'an etc. then it is corrupted & false. How convenient! How deceitful & corrupt.

You know full well if Jesus had taught that Mohammed wasn't a prophet & Islam & the Qur'an were corrupt, as Islam teaches about Christianity & Judaism & their scriptures, Muslims would kill every Christian & burn every Gospel & church. Yet you live among Christians & Jews & enjoy rights they can't have in Muslim countries. No Muslim country has freedom of religion or speech. None. Islam doesn't allow that.

Even Muslim historians and hadith writers had a hard time masking your 'prophet's' debauchery, cruelty, pedophilia, mass murder, banditry, lying, his vanity (dying his hair/beard, wearing eye makeup and perfuming his body), his violence and greed. How can you read of this horrible man's life and believe he is the mouthpiece for a good god? What kind of god would give him free rein to satisfy his huge lust and greed, exempt him from all moral values & even encourage him in his killings, his greed & his lust by giving him his own adopted son's wife? Is this the kind of god you believe in? Promising 72 perpetual virgins for continuous eternal copulation with constant erections? Is this what the greatest intelligence in the universe would say?

How can you follow a religion created by a man who rounded up 900 Jewish men and boys and happily divided up their wealth and property while they were being beheaded for not accepting him as the next Jewish prophet? Then he took the prettiest widow and had sex with her after he had just murdered her husband. Is that the actions of a godly man?

Soon you'll be coming up to Eid al Adha. Will you be killing an animal? Slitting its throat to make a blood sacrifice demanded by this Arab god? What kind of god demands blood sacrifices?

Care 2 is supposed to be a site that is about human/civil rights - fighting for women's, gay, children's rights and for freedoms of all kinds. It is hard to understand why you Muslims, & you who defend this ideology that opposes everything this site claims to defend & believe in, are even here. Really. You can't believe in gay rights & defend Islam - Islam demands we be killed.

You can't believe in women's rights & believe in a religion that makes their inferiority & subjection very clear? (Mohammed said women were deficient in intelligence & religion: Deficient in intelligence because it takes '2 women to equal the witness of one man" & deficient 'in her religion' because 'a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses.' Women are in no way equal in Islam). Allah said a raped woman must produce 4 male witnesses to her rape or she is to be treated as a liar! Do you not care about these poor women & their imprisonment or murder for being raped? How can you be so callous to suffering like this, you Muslims & you nonMuslim apologists like Elias, Lynn B, Wooddragon, et al?

How can all of you claim to be for all the rights of those we mentioned, yet defend this atrocity of an ideology which opposes them all? If you believe in the rights of women, gays, children & freedom of religion, speech, conscience, press etc, you cannot believe in or defend Islam. Your ignorance is no excuse.

Islam is the only religion that requires the killing of those who leave it! Incredible. Which one of you appeasers or Muslims will come now & ignore this or pretend it doesn't exist as you do with every other ugly command of Mohammed & his religion? Will you excuse this?

How can you be for childrens' rights when Mohammed himself had sex with at least one prepubescent boy (no hair makes it OK) and he 'married' Aisha when she was 6 and rubbed his penis between her thighs until he penetrated her at 9 (she speaks of having to clean up his semen). You think that is noble of him to wait until she was 9? You Muslims & your ability to compartmenatize & live in denial of the truth is astounding. Islam's writings make it clear men can have sex with children & it is still practiced today. And the only saying about having sex with animals is that afterward a woman must wash! There is no prohibition or punishment for bestiality, though it was very common among Arabs at Mohammed's time & it was mentioned.

Necrophilia is not condemned either since that would criticize Mohammed's having sex with a dead woman in her coffin, of course, it was all out of compassion so she could enter Muslim paradise. What a saint!

Either you are for the rights of women, children & gay people or you're not. Either you're for freedom of speech, religion, conscience (including the right to change religion or renounce it), speech & press, or you don't. You either defend Islam which is opposed to all of these things, or you defend the things you claim you believe in.

Do you not note here, you Islamist apologists, that the Muslims never say they renounce the killing of those who leave Islam, gay people or rape victims? Go on, ask them. They talk about wonderful Islam, but they will not renounce these barbaric traditons & commands. How can you believe in, love or defend a 'religion' that teaches such awful things? Sandra T is the only one who has come close to admitting that gay people should be killed.

All religion does not teach love, forgiveness, nonviolence, to not cast stones & judge others. Islam is the negative of all of this. Jesus & Buddha taught these things. Mohammed taught the opposite.

You decide what you will defend. This isn't about individual Muslims but about an ideology that is opposed to everything we believe. Islam commands its followers to conquer the world & subdue & humiliate all unbelievers under Islamic law & Mohammed tells them to lie if needed to accomplish this - taqiyya.

Before you defend something you should find something out about it. Read the Qur'an here in a translation acceptable to Muslim scholars: See what it says, at least then you'll know what you're talking about. You Muslims, read it too.

Sandra T (126)
Tuesday August 2, 2011, 3:21 pm
RAMADAN KAREEM, for all my Muslim friends on this thread. This really brief to all the readers who could easily be misled by the comments of Rob and Jay B.

You can go to this thread and see what I actually did post on the subject. It is the same that is written in the bible.. It is God's word not mine,nor anyone elses. We can shape the will of God around our wishes and desires and call it God's law, or we can shape our lives around the will of God. We make a choice and bear the consequences which are also only known to God Almighty.

This has nothing to do with my personal opinions. I am neither threatened nor in any way affected by same sex relations. It is not for me to judge you and I never would. Below are my comments from which Rob and Jay deduce their claims regarding me.

I repeat..."Jugdment is with God alone", is what I have always said and still say now.

Furthermore there are a multitde of scholars who disagree with the claim that Aisha was a young girl, when she married. Historical facts prove that she had to have been between 18 and 20 years old.

Bukhari, was born 200 years after the Prophet's death along with many other of the hadeeth writers. Many Muslims do not consider him a reliabe transmitter for various other reasons,as well as Abu Huraira and many others transmitters as you could well imagine. Their hadeeths should only then be accepted if they correspond with those of transmitters who related hadeeths during the life time of the Prophet, and many simply don't or are even fabrications.

One of such hadeeths would be :

'obey an unjust ruler and accept his tyranny and abuse, and rising up against such a ruler would be considered a grave sin punished by God'.

Would such a statement make sense to any logical person? Yet, such a hadeeth in fact exists by Bukhari. I have to make an effort to find it and post it here, along with the exact wording. There are many more and proof that there is man's hand involved here. Not so with Qur'an. It has not been touched or manipuated, not one letter of any word. Yet, it is essential to research its meaning in detail and understand the verses, not twist them in a most perverted form by perverted hearts.

My comments on the below thread start from Jul 22, 2011

Belgium Bans Burqas Starting Next Week


Jay S (116)
Wednesday August 3, 2011, 8:31 am
Sandra T, It may be YOUR god's word to kill gay people & people who leave Islam but it is not our Creator's word. Yet you Muslims still enforce your own warped hatefilled commandments on others, don't you.

You don't personally feel 'threatened' by our realationships? How big of you. BUT you still think we should be killed. Don't you, & all the rest of you 'peaceful' 'tolerant' Muslims here? None of you has ever had the character & honesty to answer our question to you all about whether you believe apostates & gays should be killed as your warped, sexually perverted 'prophet' commanded (tho he had sex with a prepubescent boy & a little girl, a dead woman, among other atrocities boasted about in your 'holy' writings).

We've asked you over & over to prove your nice words about Islam & to tell all the liberal apologists for you & Islam that you renounce Islam's command to kill gay people & people who simply want to free of Islam's oppression. YET NONE OF YOU HAS EVER DONE THAT. What's so hard?

You say you don't feel personally 'threatened' by our relationship. Why should you? Yet you say your firebreathing hateful deity wants us dead, despite the fact we may have lived much more worTHwhile lives than many of your suicide bombers who've killed innocent people but are going straight to Islamic paradise & to the perpetual virgins & eternal erections, or your arrogant, self-righteous imams. What a sick bunch.

We have both spent our lives working for charities, volunteering our time to help others in need & for the rights of other sentient beings. We are leaving all of our estate to charity. We are passionate about human/civil rights & the rights of women, children, ethnic & racial minorities & have worked & campaigned for these for decades. We are both medical workers who have worked to save lives. Yet, your ignorant bigoted deity wants you Muslims to kill us - hang us from cranes, burn us alive or chop off our heads & end our lives, for what reason? Ancient ignorant tribal superstitions?

You mention the Bible, which your mad prophet couldn't even copy correctly. He didn't even know the Jewish name for their god so took the Arab supreme pagan god, Allah's, name. Well, Jesus never said a word against gay people. He only taught love, tolerance & for people not to judge others or cast stones (all things your 'prophet' never taught.) So don't even go there trying to justify your ugly, hateful religious perversions just because another ignorant pubic hair bearded 'prophet', Moses, said the same things (which Jews have renounce long ago).

Everyone on C2! How much more do you need to hear before you stop defending this hatefilled, fascistic ideology? You claim to be liberal, caring people in support of gay rights, animal rights, women's & childrens' rights, yet you come on here and stick up for this ideology & its followers who are against every one of these things you say you believe in.

Islam is the new Fascism, the new Communism, the new worldwide ideology of hate, persecution & death for all it deems unfit, just like what Hitler taught (in fact Hitler loved Islam & praised it for its kick ass violence, & lamented that the German people had been weakened by weak Christianity that taught tolerance & love.)

All of you who talk about your nice tolerant Muslim friends, ASK them if they believe gays & those who leave Islam, among others, should be killed, & don't let them change the subject, which they will. Ask them if they believe a rape victim should have to provide 4 male 'witnesses' before she can prove she was raped, otherwise Allah says she is a liar & imprisoned or killed! Ask them. They know their beliefs are abhorrent to most right-thinking westerners & therefore go to great efforts to hide them. Ask them, then decide if these are people you really want to include in your life, people who don't share your vision of a just & kinder more tolerant world.

It is not the victims of Islam that are intolerant & hateful for crying out against its cruelty. It is Islam itself that is the enemy, the threat to all we here claim to care about & believe in (well, most of us anyway). By defending Islam you & Care 2 are doing more violence to its every day victims - the women stoned, gays murdered, little girls 'married' to sick old sex-crazed men to be raped & beaten, to those who want out of this sick cult, to thieves who have their hands/feet cut off & the stumps thrust into boiling oil. Is this what you want to support? Then you shouldn't be here.

Which side are you on anyway? Hate, intolerance & death, or love, tolerance & caring.

Why are you Muslims & you Islamic appeasers here on a site that is opposite to all you believe in? We've asked you that before to. Why does Care 2 coddle this hateful ideology? The proof is so obvious & staggering against what this 'religion' stands for. Just look at all the Islamic countries.

You here jump in to criticize & ridicule Pat Robertson & his right wing fundamentalist Old Testament Christians & their stupidity & bigotry (& rightly so), but they are tolerant liberals compared to Islam & its believers which you trip over each other trying to coddle & defend. Are you blind? Educate yourselves about this insidious cult before you one day regret helping it to thrive.

There are a small number of Muslims who renounce Islam's hideous hate commands, who say Islam must be reformed & expunged of its antiquated tribal fictions of killing & hate, but they are a small minority, by their own admission. Those good Muslims will gladly tell you they renounce all this hate. Most Muslims will not.

Get your heads out of the ground & start standing up for what you claim to believe in. Read the Qur'an. See the hate & intolerance for yourself.

Go to,, for excellent exposes of Islam, Mohammed, the Qur'an & Islamism's war against freedom & decency. The latter site is run by exMuslims who want to warn the world of the truth & danger of Islam. They have first hand experience & knowledge of Islam's lies & cruelties. All three sites are thoroughly documented with references to Islamic teachings, Mohammed's sayings & verses from the Qur'an & hadiths. They are not hate sites but desire to expose the truth of the myths surrounding all of this ugliness. You should be supporting them in their work to help the victims of Islam. Why would you only believe the propaganda put out on the Muslim sites that want you to only know what they want you to know, but won't tell you the darkness that lurks behind it all? You wouldn't just read Pat Robertson's site or the Mormon Church's site to learn about their tenets, would you? Of course not. It's time for you to choose which side you're really on & act accordingly.

Tommy S (11)
Wednesday August 3, 2011, 10:22 am
@ Mary p
, regurgitate BS, about Beautiful Islam, which honors and respects
Women, giving them Equal Rights.
mohammeds last sermon
Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals (‘awan) with you and do not possess anything for themselves.
ibn ishaq.....Lay injunctions on women
kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control- of their persons.
both tabari and ishaq agree -mohammed said also--If a woman does wrong God permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them,

These texts are islamic texts from islamic sites---- As to whether they are hate-sites-- your words not mine


. (0)
Wednesday August 3, 2011, 10:44 am
Rob and Jay, there are indeed a number of questions that the Muslims I've spoken to here on the forum seem unable to answer. On any number of occasions I've seen Muslim C2 members posting about how the "uncorrupted", etc. version of the Koran was perfect and utterly correct (with a few even saying the same thing about the "uncorrupted" and "unmistranslated" Christian Bible.) And yet no matter how many different Muslim C2 members I've asked, not yet has one been able to tell me specifically which published translation/version of the Koran (and/or the Bible) actually contains the "correct", "uncorrupted", and properly translated text. They keep insisting that they know what the real wording supposedly says; however, that would imply they actually have a perfectly translated and unadulterated version in their possession (or at least have read it and know which version to refer me to). And yet they seem unable to provide me with the publication information so that I can obtain such a copy for myself to see what it actually says.

Tommy S (11)
Wednesday August 3, 2011, 11:28 am
Sandra T...........sura 5:101 O ye who believe! Ask not of things which, if they were made unto you, would trouble you; but if ye ask of them when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will
be made known unto you. Allah pardoneth this, for Allah is Forgiving,
So do not question

.Quote... Not so with Qur'an. It has not been touched or manipuated, not one letter of any word ...Unquote.--
Except of course by the caliph Uthman and his committee who are responsible for the present koran after gathering in all the different versions that existed burning them and replacing them with a single version.
Quote...Yet, it is essential to research its meaning in detail and understand the verses,--Unquote..........EH...-sura 54:22 And We have indeed made the Qur'ân easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?
It cannot be understood without the sira and hadith despite alla making it easy to understand
Quote....not twist them in a most perverted form by perverted hearts. ...Unquote----..sura 3:54 And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.

Quote...Furthermore there are a multitude of scholars who disagree with the claim that Aisha was a young girl, when she married. Historical facts prove that she had to have been between 18 and 20 years old. ...Unquote ---What you mean is
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

There has been an effort to taqiyya aisha's age but that was to make it acceptable for western consumption


patrica and edw jones (190)
Wednesday August 3, 2011, 6:49 pm

patrica and edw jones (190)
Wednesday August 3, 2011, 6:56 pm

Jay S (116)
Thursday August 4, 2011, 2:50 am
Sandra T & Kathryn you practice a common thing in Islam, saying something isn't 'really Islamic' when it is obviously offensive or repellent, even when quoted directly from your books - the Qur'an & yes, the hadith. That's called Taqiyya - lying to promote Islam, as your deity told you to do.

Now you are both saying the hadith are worthless because the quotes from them used here show how debauched Mohammed was & how perverted Islam's teachings on women, sex with children & animals, gay people etc, but then you are going against what the Islamic scholars & theologians say:

"Sometimes, even the link between the Hadith and the Qur?aan is not visible, which is contrary to the Hadith being exposition of the Qur'aan and the assumption made above to the effect that the Ahadith are but exposition of the Qur?an. The answer to this would be that such reports and commands cannot escape being exposition of the Qur?an, for, even if they do not appear in any particular aayah in part, they would, on the whole, be an exposition of the following ayah in which the matter has been put down as a general rule:

'Whatever the messenger giveth you, take it and whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain from it).' (Qur'an, 59:97)

Thus, all commandments of this type made by the Holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) are an exposition of the above aayat. Here, the holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) has been directed to issue commands on his own and the legal decisions are declared to be parallel to those of the Qur?aan.

That is a quote from Qari Muhammad Tayyib (Late) Rector - Darul Uloom (Deoband from an Islamic site: - 'ask an imam' questions. Maybe you both should try it. There is much more on the given link that spells out very clearly that the hadith are to be taken as true along with the Qur'an. Just click on 'hadith' on the left side of subjects for answers that prove your denials false.

Kathryn, your comment about how accepting your Catholic family is of your conversion to Islam is nice. Do you then believe that those who convert from Islam to Christianity, another religion, or simply want to be free of Islam should be allowed to do so & be supported by Muslims in their decision? OR do you believe in Mohammed's command that these people should be killed? None of you Muslims have ever renounced this barbaric command either, among all the others, while you steadfastly claim to be so tolerant & peaceful. Let's hear it.

So your saying quotes used here to show the offiensiveness of Islam don't count. You are both wrong. You really need to both do some studying about this religion you seem to not know much about.

John S. (2)
Monday August 8, 2011, 12:34 am
I have been reading care2, for long, but never commented before. I joined today, cannot bear the Slander and the Lies(Rob and Jay) about the Great Leader and Chosen Prophet of God.

Prophet Muhammad - The Most Influential Man in History
from the book by Michael Hart

The following is from Michael Hart's book and lists Prophet Muhammad as the most influential man in History. A Citadel Press Book, published by Carol Publishing Group
Ranking of the twenty from the list of 100:

1. Prophet Muhammad
2. Isaac Newton
3. Jesus Christ
4. Buddha
5. Confucius
6. St. Paul
7. Ts'ai Lun
8. Johann Gutenberg
9. Christopher Columbus
10.Albert Einstein
11.Karl Marx
12.Louis Pasteur
13.Galileo Galilei
17.Charles Darwin
18.Shih Huang Ti
19.Augustus Caesar
20.Mao Tse-tung


John S. (2)
Monday August 8, 2011, 1:02 am
In the quotations below, Western writers have used the word Muhammadanism for Islam. The word Muhammadanism connotes worship of Muhammad, an absolutely unworthy statement for any learned man to use. Prophet Muhammad's mission was to propagate the worship of the One and Only God (in Arabic Allah), the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. His mission was essentially the same as that of earlier Prophets of God. In the historical context, many such terminologies about Muhammad, Islam, and Muslims were borrowed from earlier European writings of the Eleventh to the Nineteenth century, a time when ignorance and prejudice prevailed. The quotations below attest to the facts.

Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,' 1840

"The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."
"A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world, the world’s Maker had ordered so."

A. S. Tritton in 'Islam,' 1951

The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur'an in the other is quite false.

De Lacy O'Leary in 'Islam at the Crossroads,' London, 1923.

History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.

Gibbon in 'The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' 1823

The good sense of Muhammad despised the pomp of royalty. The Apostle of God submitted to the menial offices of the family; he kindled the fire; swept the floor; milked the ewes; and mended with his own hands his shoes and garments. Disdaining the penance and merit of a hermit, he observed without effort of vanity the abstemious diet of an Arab.

Edward Gibbon and Simon Oakley in ‘History of the Saracen Empire,’ London, 1870

"The greatest success of Mohammad’s life was effected by sheer moral force."
“It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran....The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. ‘I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.”

Reverend Bosworth Smith in 'Muhammad and Muhammadanism,' London, 1874.

"Head of the State as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without the Pope's pretensions, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a police force, without a fixed revenue. If ever a man ruled by a right divine, it was Muhammad, for he had all the powers without their supports. He cared not for the dressings of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life."
"In Mohammadanism every thing is different here. Instead of the shadowy and the mysterious, we have history....We know of the external history of Muhammad....while for his internal history after his mission had been proclaimed, we have a book absolutely unique in its origin, in its preservation....on the Substantial authority of which no one has ever been able to cast a serious doubt."

Edward Montet, 'La Propagande Chretienne et ses Adversaries Musulmans,' Paris 1890. (Also in T.W. Arnold in 'The Preaching of Islam,' London 1913.)

"Islam is a religion that is essentially rationalistic in the widest sense of this term considered etymologically and historically....the teachings of the Prophet, the Qur'an has invariably kept its place as the fundamental starting point, and the dogma of unity of God has always been proclaimed therein with a grandeur a majesty, an invariable purity and with a note of sure conviction, which it is hard to find surpassed outside the pale of Islam....A creed so precise, so stripped of all theological complexities and consequently so accessible to the ordinary understanding might be expected to possess and does indeed possess a marvelous power of winning its way into the consciences of men."

Alphonse de LaMartaine in 'Historie de la Turquie,' Paris, 1854.

"Never has a man set for himself, voluntarily or involuntarily, a more sublime aim, since this aim was superhuman; to subvert superstitions which had been imposed between man and his Creator, to render God unto man and man unto God; to restore the rational and sacred idea of divinity amidst the chaos of the material and disfigured gods of idolatry, then existing. Never has a man undertaken a work so far beyond human power with so feeble means, for he (Muhammad) had in the conception as well as in the execution of such a great design, no other instrument than himself and no other aid except a handful of men living in a corner of the desert. Finally, never has a man accomplished such a huge and lasting revolution in the world, because in less than two centuries after its appearance, Islam, in faith and in arms, reigned over the whole of Arabia, and conquered, in God's name, Persia Khorasan, Transoxania, Western India, Syria, Egypt, Abyssinia, all the known continent of Northern Africa, numerous islands of the Mediterranean Sea, Spain, and part of Gaul.
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws, and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples, dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and the souls.

"On the basis of a Book, every letter which has become law, he created a spiritual nationality which blend together peoples of every tongue and race. He has left the indelible characteristic of this Muslim nationality the hatred of false gods and the passion for the One and Immaterial God. This avenging patriotism against the profanation of Heaven formed the virtue of the followers of Muhammad; the conquest of one-third the earth to the dogma was his miracle; or rather it was not the miracle of man but that of reason.

"The idea of the unity of God, proclaimed amidst the exhaustion of the fabulous theogonies, was in itself such a miracle that upon it's utterance from his lips it destroyed all the ancient temples of idols and set on fire one-third of the world. His life, his meditations, his heroic revelings against the superstitions of his country, and his boldness in defying the furies of idolatry, his firmness in enduring them for fifteen years in Mecca, his acceptance of the role of public scorn and almost of being a victim of his fellow countrymen... This dogma was twofold the unity of God and the immateriality of God: the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words.

"Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs.... The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"

Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in 'Young India,'1924.

I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.

Sir George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.

"If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."
“I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity."

"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”

Michael Hart in 'The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons In History,' New York, 1978.

My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. ...It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. ...It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

Dr. William Draper in 'History of Intellectual Development of Europe'

Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born in Mecca, in Arabia, the man who, of all men, has exercised the greatest influence upon the human race... To be the religious head of many empires, to guide the daily life of one-third of the human race, may perhaps justify the title of a Messenger of God.

Arthur Glyn Leonard in 'Islam, Her Moral and Spiritual Values'

It was the genius of Muhammad, the spirit that he breathed into the Arabs through the soul of Islam that exalted them. That raised them out of the lethargy and low level of tribal stagnation up to the high watermark of national unity and empire. It was in the sublimity of Muhammad's deism, the simplicity, the sobriety and purity it inculcated the fidelity of its founder to his own tenets, that acted on their moral and intellectual fiber with all the magnetism of true inspiration.

Philip K. Hitti in 'History of the Arabs'

Within a brief span of mortal life, Muhammad called forth of unpromising material, a nation, never welded before; in a country that was hitherto but a geographical expression he established a religion which in vast areas suppressed Christianity and Judaism, and laid the basis of an empire that was soon to embrace within its far flung boundaries the fairest provinces the then civilized world.

Rodwell in the Preface to his translation of the Holy Qur'an

Mohammad's career is a wonderful instance of the force and life that resides in him who possesses an intense faith in God and in the unseen world. He will always be regarded as one of those who have had that influence over the faith, morals and whole earthly life of their fellow men, which none but a really great man ever did, or can exercise; and whose efforts to propagate a great verity will prosper.

W. Montgomery Watt in 'Muhammad at Mecca,' Oxford, 1953.

His readiness to undergo persecution for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as a leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems that it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad.... Thus, not merely must we credit Muhammad with essential honesty and integrity of purpose, if we are to understand him at all; if we are to correct the errors we have inherited from the past, we must not forget the conclusive proof is a much stricter requirement than a show of plausibility, and in a matter such as this only to be attained with difficulty.

D. G. Hogarth in 'Arabia'

Serious or trivial, his daily behavior has instituted a canon which millions observe this day with conscious memory. No one regarded by any section of the human race as Perfect Man has ever been imitated so minutely. The conduct of the founder of Christianity has not governed the ordinary life of his followers. Moreover, no founder of a religion has left on so solitary an eminence as the Muslim apostle.


John S. (2)
Monday August 8, 2011, 1:06 am
Washington Irving 'Mahomet and His Successors'

He was sober and abstemious in his diet and a rigorous observer of fasts. He indulged in no magnificence of apparel, the ostentation of a petty mind; neither was his simplicity in dress affected but a result of real disregard for distinction from so trivial a source.
In his private dealings he was just. He treated friends and strangers, the rich and poor, the powerful and weak, with equity, and was beloved by the common people for the affability with which he received them, and listened to their complaints.

His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vain glory, as they would have done had they been effected for selfish purposes. In the time of his greatest power he maintained the same simplicity of manners and appearance as in the days of his adversity. So far from affecting a regal state, he was displeased if, on entering a room, any unusual testimonials of respect were shown to him. If he aimed at a universal dominion, it was the dominion of faith; as to the temporal rule which grew up in his hands, as he used it without ostentation, so he took no step to perpetuate it in his family.

James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70.

"No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience."
“Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word sensing his own inadequacy. But the Angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God"."

“In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred and rumors of God 's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, ‘An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being'."

“At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: ‘If there are any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you Worshiped, He lives for ever'.”

Lawrence E. Browne in ‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944

Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.

K. S. Ramakrishna Rao in 'Mohammed: The Prophet of Islam,' 1989

My problem to write this monograph is easier, because we are not generally fed now on that (distorted) kind of history and much time need not be spent on pointing out our misrepresentations of Islam. The theory of Islam and sword, for instance, is not heard now in any quarter worth the name. The principle of Islam that “there is no compulsion in religion” is well known.


John S. (2)
Monday August 8, 2011, 1:38 am
I dont understand why, some self confessed atheist, would want copies of the bible/koran; the Words of God, when they dont believe God, Exists, in the first place. Why waste your time with something you dont believe in?

William Y (54)
Monday August 8, 2011, 1:59 am
@ John S. If one does not know what the other side thinks, one cannot debunk it.

. (0)
Monday August 8, 2011, 4:41 pm
True, William; but only in part.

John S., the holy books of the great religions of this world should be part and parcel of any good education. Their words have had an enormous impact on human history (and in the case of Western nations, secular literary allusions to Biblical passages are found throughout our writings - and without some knowledge of the source they wouldn't make sense.)

Moreover how could any rational person say, "I don't believe in something" which is a very specific something, if that person doesn't have some degree of knowledge of that something? I can say that I absolutely don't believe in the truth of, say, Christianity precisely because I have read the Bible, cover to cover, several times. While my disbelief in the concept of gods in general is rooted in there being no positive evidence in favor of their existence, in some cases (such as Christianity) my knowledge of its foundational holy book allows me to base my decision not only on the lack of support in favor of it but also the evidence specifically against it.

Besides which, the King James Version is a lovely piece of literature, well worth anyone's reading!

Mary P (157)
Monday August 8, 2011, 11:59 pm
Thank You JOHN S. Wow!!! Such enlightening and insightful information,
About the BELOVED Prophet MUHAMMAD (PBUH) and Beautiful Islam;
And all opinions from, Great NON MUSLIM Personalities like MAHATMA
Ghandi, BERNARD SHAW and others.

Lindsey Dear, if great non muslim personalities, such as the above,
feel and think, this way about Islam
And its Prophet, how do you think, True Believers of Islam feels and
Thinks about their Exquisit Religion of Islam. The world is full of True Believers of GOD
Almighty in every Religion, every Country, every Race and every Creed.
One will never succeed in debunking, the TRUTH of GOD Almighty and HIS
Holy Revelations.

Lindsey,If you Really are interested, and keen to read, the Holy Quran,
from cover to cover, that would be truely fantastic!!! There is Only
ONE QURAN , the Holy Book for the Muslims ; the Arabic of which
has been TRANSLATED, by many different scholars; thus Different
Translations, which I have no doubt, will never satisfy your needs, to
Find, what you specifically, are looking, to Learn.
My advice to you, IS, to study the Arabic Language, so that you can
translate the verses for yourself and try and understand exactly
What GOD Almighty means; maybe you wil find the knowledge
You are searching for; as We, True Believers, have the
Hearts, to know and understand GOD's Words, eyes to See, HIS Signs
All around us, and Ears to Listen, when we hear HIS Truth.

May GOD Almighty Bless you and help you in your mission, whatever
It maybe. Lots of luv and Peace to you.

Tommy S (11)
Wednesday August 10, 2011, 11:49 am
I have ceased to be amazed at peoples ignorance about islam until I read the koran for myself and then I understood
When mohammed went to medina his whole concept changed -- he became a political force and the peaceful meccan verses were cancelled,replaced by ones of violence-- his followers noticed this and challenged him and he produced sura 2:106 Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We
bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allâh is able to do all
There were still questions asked as many could not understand the change and so
sura 5:101...O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may
cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Qur'ân is being
revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allâh has forgiven that, and Allâh is
OftForgiving, Most Forbearing
sura 5:102 Before you, a community asked such questions, then on that account they
became disbelievers.


Sandra T (126)
Thursday August 11, 2011, 8:06 pm
I agree Mary, what wonderuful and enlightening posts by John S. Thank you so much dear John and Mary for drawing my attention to them.

Those are great learned personalities who DO qualify to speak on the Holy and magnificent personality of our Prophet and the excellent religion which is Islam he brought to Humanity. Alhamdullilah.

Thank you dear John for this great effort to present the truth.

May Allah(SWT) guide whom he wishes; he is oft forgiving most merciful.

This is the Book, there is no doubt in it,(being the word of God),a guidance for the pious ones.

And who believe in the unseen, and establish the prayers and of what we have provided them with, they give (in the way of their lord).

And who believe in that which hath been sent down unto thee (O'Our Apostle Muhammed) and that which has been sent down unto the other apostles before thee, and of the hereafter they are sure.

These are the ones on the guidance from their Lord, and these shall be the ones who shall be the successful ones.

Verily (as for) those who disbelieve, alike it is for them, thou warneth them or warneth them not, (for) they will not believe.(Qur'an,II:2-6)


Julie Kirby (40)
Friday August 12, 2011, 1:25 pm
Why atheists read holy books if they don't believe in them? People read Harry Potter & Lord of the Rings too...
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