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OP-ED: Should Planned Parenthood Be Allowed in Schools?


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: abortion politics, ethics, law, eduction, pending legislation, Kansas, lies, media, republicans, propaganda, usa, politics, news, government, freedoms, constitution, healthcare, healthcare )

Cal
- 802 days ago - theweek.com
The family planning organization opens a first-of-its-kind clinic at a Los Angeles high school, and anti-abortion activists are furious



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Comments

Rose NoFWDSPLZ (273)
Monday June 11, 2012, 2:35 am
Thanks Cal
 

Hilary S. (45)
Monday June 11, 2012, 2:40 am
seems they are the best people to provide kids with clear safe sex education.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday June 11, 2012, 3:05 am
thank you
 

Ira Herson (13)
Monday June 11, 2012, 4:16 am
In Australia all the high schools teach sex education. With knowledge comes power. To empower young people to control their lives, they can make informed decisions of how to be responsible for their actions.

Reducing unwanted pregnancies and STDs would only improve their lives and society.

I would think that the Anti-abortion people would welcome a world where abortion was unnecessary because there were no unwanted pregnancies.

The stupidity of denying factual information to help young people make informed decisions in their life should be considered abuse. Shame on people for withholding information that would prevent the anguish of needing abortions.

If parents really love their children they protect them with information. Alert them to dangers and give them the tools they need to make their way i life. If they have taught them to respect themselves they will make the right decisions about their bodies. Having real information is a part of helping them to avoid the pitfalls in life.

Good on the LA school district.
 

John S. (300)
Monday June 11, 2012, 6:19 am
It's a clinic, they are providing services, not education. I'm not certain that is appropriate in the school. Maybe next door.
 

Kristen Giffin (17)
Monday June 11, 2012, 6:23 am
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
 

Arielle S. (316)
Monday June 11, 2012, 7:28 am
Well, heck, it's so much better for kids to fool around, get some STD, become pregnant, drop out of school and go on welfare - all so some holier-than-thou can feel holier than thou....
 

TomCat S. (286)
Monday June 11, 2012, 8:43 am
Planned Parenthood should be allowed anywhere that women and girls that are likely to be sexually active need their services.
 

Gloria picchetti (286)
Monday June 11, 2012, 9:20 am
Yes, children with no sex education have more children.
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Monday June 11, 2012, 10:16 am
"The school nurse asked for Planned Parenthood's help after seeing 32 positive pregnancy tests in one three-month period in 2008. Nationally, the teen pregnancy rate has dropped to its lowest level in 40 years, and researchers credit better contraception use by teenagers. Agree with it or not, giving students information and contraception undeniably works."

So, the right-wingers are LYING when they say: "Knowledge leads to Contraception use leads to 'more' Pregnancies and 'more' Abortions". LYING, KNOWINGLY, in the face of ALL STATISTICAL STUDIES.
LYING just to support their SUPERSTITIOUS, NONSENSICAL "RELIGIOUS" BELIEFS that very, very few in the Younger Generation even share, thank goodness! and increasingly few in ALL Generations!

They are trying by Dictat and lying Propaganda, to IMPOSE these beliefs of a minority, on all those who don't share those ridiculous superstitions.
Catholicism, Mormonism, Fundamentalist Christianity, and Fundamentalist ANY Religion, are based on ridiculous, unbelievable fairy tales from a previous era when people were ignorant and kept that way. Even Pagans, or especially Pagans I should say, knew more of Science and Nature than people during the Dark Ages when fairy tales of Hellfire became the means used by the Ruling Classes to terrorize the masses.

It is just SHOCKING that these inane religious superstitions still can politically challenge Science and FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE today -- their proponents have no other choice but to resort to BLATANT LIES -- but why do our politicians and policy makers have to listen to them?
 

Dave C. (213)
Monday June 11, 2012, 10:48 am
yes....
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Monday June 11, 2012, 12:01 pm
I basically agree with Ira Herson, that sex EDUCATION in public schools is necessary and beneficial, but unless I am mistaken, that's NOT what Planned Parenthood is. I believe that Planned Parenthood is all about abortion and to me, that's a misnomer. Abortion is the result on Unplanned Parenthood and carelessness. The whole thing is absurd. Children should not be having children and when I was young, they didn't. How was that possible? Were they saints? Were they supermen and superwomen ? No. They were simply young people raised with values and self-control.

But since then, we have become so enabling and complacent and amoral, that now anything goes and pregnancy without wedlock is just totally acceptable, even by Christians and school systems; so much so that now we need to have daycare centers in our public schools. This is an atrocity. Even Sarah Palin's unwed daughter is getting a reality show on TV presenting her as a normal Mom. What happened to all of these moralists who seem to have no problem throwing stones at gays who want to marry, but don't see anything wrong with teen prenancy and dead beat dads???????
 

Dee C. (214)
Monday June 11, 2012, 12:12 pm
"You can't argue with success: The school was in a crisis after its old reproductive health program ended, says Amanda Peterson Beadle at Think Progress. The school nurse asked for Planned Parenthood's help after seeing 32 positive pregnancy tests in one three-month period in 2008. Nationally, the teen pregnancy rate has dropped to its lowest level in 40 years, and researchers credit better contraception use by teenagers. Agree with it or not, giving students information and contraception undeniably works."

Of course it should be allowed and I hope more school will follow this positive move..
Teenage pregnancies and STD's are running rampant in the schools..

Thank Cal..
Noted..
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Monday June 11, 2012, 12:33 pm
I have no problem with young people being taught about birth control, but I certainly do hope that they are including in that, instructions in celibacy and self-control too because just avoiding pregnancy and STD's isn't the total issue. What about self-respect and decency? What about enjoying the period of being a child before saddling yourself with the stress of being a mother? What about feeling good about yourself and having something to share for the first time with someone you really love rather than feeling like neighborhood entertainment and damaged goods. And why would you want to earn a reputation for being "easy" to the point where ultimately no one will want you and men will only wear condoms with you then then because they consider you a health risk. There are no truer words than the old adage: "No one will buy the cow when they can get the milk for free."
 

Mori H. (0)
Monday June 11, 2012, 1:58 pm
I totally support Planned Parenthood, and teaching birth control in schools. This is much more realistic and will do more good than Abstinence Only ( what a terrible idea) I was shocked when I began to see how many teenage mothers there are, we need to do whatever it takes to get birth control to these kids. BS morals and religion will not be enough, we must make contraception available and affordable to everyone. The Planet cannot take much more!
 

Paula M. (39)
Monday June 11, 2012, 2:35 pm
Well said, Robert. To say "teenagers are animals who cannot avoid the urge to rut, so let's give them free birth control" insults the humanity of teens and leaves them vulnerable to the emotional costs of casual sex. Unfortunately, I don't think that Planned Parenthood cares about the issues you raise.
 

Christopher Fowler (84)
Monday June 11, 2012, 2:39 pm
The Christo-fascists are just upset because their "abstinence only" program isn't allowed in the schools. Forget the fact that it doesn't work; they don't care about any of that.

Planned Parenthood should have been in these schools years ago. At least they have facts and proven results on their side. This isn't about politics, it is about what will result in lowering teen pregnancies and reduce the spread of STD's; nothing more and nothing less.

If it works, it should be used. Period; end of discussion.
 

c fraser (49)
Monday June 11, 2012, 2:44 pm
If it helps prevent one unplanned, unwanted pregnancy I'm all for it.
 

Fred Krohn (34)
Monday June 11, 2012, 2:59 pm
The 'Religious Wrong' extremists can sit on a flagpole and rotate, we don't need them. Planned Parenthood - YES. Extremists who either try to restrict information for fake religious purposes or degrade medical care through government takeover - NO! Ban PPACA and the anti-abortion extremists!
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Monday June 11, 2012, 3:27 pm
Yes, I can see a good reason for having a Planned Parenthood Clinic RIGHT IN THE SCHOOL.
These are inner-city schools for poor kids. Not wealthy suburban schools with middle-class, educated parents.
This is an EMERGENCY situation, with LARGE NUMBERS of young women getting pregnant.

Some of these young women are RAPED.
Some of them may be RAPED BY STEP-PARENTS OR OTHER ADULTS IN THEIR LIVES.
Many of them, I am sure, may be PRESSURED INTO SEX they don't really want, are not really ready for; or they are intimidated from saying "no" because they think they "need" this boyfriend, or "a" boyfriend.
All around them, Sex Sex Sex is being THROWN AT THEM in music, films, ads, all commercial venues to SELL STUFF. It is just INESCAPABLE.
Teenage girls may not realize it is RAPE if Sex is imposed on them while they sleep, or are drinking or on drugs. They may not know how to prevent this, or deal with it afterwards.
"Abstinence Only" assumes that ALL THESE TEENS ARE OUT HAVING A GOOD, GOOD TIME AND JUST NEED TO LEARN SELF-CONTROL AND SELF-DENIAL. {Gosh Darn! *I* never had so much fun when *I* was a kid!!!} IT IS NOT AT ALL THAT SIMPLE.

It is not enough just to teach these kids "about" sex and Contraception.
They, or their parents, may not have the time, or money, or care enough, to go "somewhere else" for Clinic appointments.
Their parents MAY NOT KNOW about this stuff, about Contraception, either. THEIR PARENTS MAY HAVE BEEN CHILDREN when they had THEM! Their home situation may be chaotic and unstable.....

THIS IS CLEARLY AN EMERGENCY SITUATION; AND A COMMON-SENSE, PRACTICAL SOLUTION TO IT.
Having even ONE unplanned-for, unwanted child, IS AN EMERGENCY SITUATION FOR A TEEN.
 

Lin Penrose (92)
Monday June 11, 2012, 3:53 pm
Noted, thanks Cal. My answer to the question is YES. Children should have basic sex education early with all the ramifications of producing more children. The clinics are now necessary for those who did not receive early quality education about these extremely important facts for billions of lives and now the earth.
 

Jennifer C. (172)
Monday June 11, 2012, 5:05 pm
Noted. Thanks.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Monday June 11, 2012, 6:35 pm
Christopher Fowler says: "The Christo-fascists are just upset because their "abstinence only" program isn't allowed in the schools. Forget the fact that it doesn't work; they don't care about any of that."

I am NOT a Christian and I do NOT believe in "abstinence only", however, don't knock abstinence since it is the only form of birth control that is 100% safe and 100% STD free. As many have said: "condoms break" and pills don't prevent STD's so don't knock it. Also, there's no substitute for self-respect.
 

John C. (80)
Monday June 11, 2012, 7:12 pm
Planned Parenthood should take on a new name. Most parents do not plan. (What does that mean exactly? Wait until the first is 6 so they can babysit?)
If parents are not involved in school who's plan can you expect?

It is wrong to derail a young woman's future. It is just as wrong to teach young men that they have that right. You always had the power to put planned parenthood out of business yet you support them with your silence and preoccupation.
 

Dee C. (214)
Monday June 11, 2012, 8:20 pm
"I have no problem with young people being taught about birth control, but I certainly do hope that they are including in that, instructions in celibacy and self-control too because just avoiding pregnancy and STD's isn't the total issue. What about self-respect and decency? What about enjoying the period of being a child before saddling yourself with the stress of being a mother? What about feeling good about yourself and having something to share for the first time with someone you really love rather than feeling like neighborhood entertainment and damaged goods."

Those are all the things a parent should teach and instill in their children..long before they get to be a teenager..And unfortunately..many parents fail to do so and its too late..So planned parenthood steps up and in to help these kids..
Abstinence does not work for many of them..and to suggest it is totally fruitless..

 

cathie Buchanan (113)
Monday June 11, 2012, 10:30 pm
i can see many people paid not one single bit of attention to their teachers in high school biology or in first year college biology classes. i must laugh at those that believe themselves to be higher than that of the four legged animal. every species is governed by BIOLOGY and the BIOLOGICAL URGE to PROCREATE. the human body experiences the same impulses as that of the cat or dog or monkey, which is why this is commonly known as being HORNY. to forget our recent past of where the acceptable practice was to marry as a thirteen year old and have children, is the reason why young people experience those HORNY moments. the human body has not evolved past those basic urges at that young age. for people to DENY the HORMONAL experiences of the body is absolutely LUDICROUS and IRRESPONSIBLE. for people to DENY the APPROPRIATE EDUCATION IN ORDER TO PREVENT PREGNANCIES IS ANOTHER DEMONSTRATION OF EXTREME IRRESPONSIBILITY. the bottom line is YOUNG PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. get used to it.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 12:11 am
Unfortunately, this seems necessary. It appears that sex education and parental guidance just aren't enough. I hope this helps young people make better decisions for their futures.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 2:56 am
I have noticed that the Planned Parenthood is a clinic. Yes in a school would be good. To have professionals on hand that can help young people to have the facts and the tools to protect them as a one stop shop is a great idea. Further, the family planning clinic is not an abortion factory but covers a multitude of services. Aside from handing out pills and condoms it also treats people for STDs, helps pregnant students to have healthy pregnancies and helps young mothers with help for their babies.

What hubris that people think they have the right to interfere with the rights of others based on their religious beliefs. If you do not want an abortion don't have one. If you do not want to have sex then don't have sex. If you don't want to think join a religion.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 7:33 am
Catherine brought up a good point. Way back when, children were married off in their teens. But you know what? At least they were married and usually had the help of extended family in raising the children. NOW THEY ARE NOT MARRIED AND DO NOT HAVE ADULTS HELPING THEM. You can't just fluff it all off by saying: "Oh well, boys will be boys.". Someone needs to be responsible. It is the duty and responsibility of parents to teach their sons and daughters some semblance of morals and not just throw a pack of condoms at them. I am not saying that abstinence only is the answer, but neither is condoms only. It needs to be a combination of both because condoms DO break and pills can be forgotten. ONLY ABSTINENCE IS 100% assurance not only to avoid pregnancy, but to avoid STD's.

Catherine says: " the bottom line is YOUNG PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. get used to it." No, that's the problem. We have gotten TOO USED TO IT. We have come to accept immorality as the norm and that's why AIDS and other STD's are multiplying and why most children born never know their biological fathers. This is too damaging, emotionally, and physically to say: "Just get over it."
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 8:05 am
Ira Herson said: " What hubris that people think they have the right to interfere with the rights of others based on their religious beliefs."

Ira, I beg to differ with you. I am an agnostic, I have no religious beliefs but I have a sense or morality. I, personally do not feel that minors have rights; nor does the Federal government. Minors may not sign contracts nor engage in legal actions, they may not drink and they may not drive so why should they be given the responsibility over the life or death of an infant, often without their own parents even knowing? I think not.

This is the whole problem with our society. Everyone has RIGHTS, but no one seems to have any responsibility for their actions. Some are allowed to kill their unborn children while others are allowed to have 15 children that they cannot possibly raise properly and that you and I have to finance. All religion aside, it is simply immoral and wrong and should be discouraged. Why is it that we DID NOT have this problem in the 1950's even though there was no sex education or abortion clinics in public schools back then? Were people simply angelic or did parents take more control of their children back then?
 

cathie Buchanan (113)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 8:43 am
irresponsibility is believing that everyone should behave as you think they should behave. irresponsibility is NOT using some type of birth control to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. irresponsibility is the parents NOT recognizing their role in sex education and 100% leaving it to the schools to take care of that specific need.

robert, just because you do not like the way people handle their own affairs does not mean that they are being irresponsible. in case you have not realized this, yet, an abortion is a LEGAL medical procedure. a fetus is NOT a child. a fetus is NOT a viable life. also, minors DO HAVE RIGHTS. the last time i looked, NO ONE IS PROPERTY. minors have the protection of the constitution, meaning they also have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. i am so happy to NOT be living in your control freakish world.
 

cathie Buchanan (113)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 8:48 am
robert is the example of a person who had his eyes closed in the '50s. these problems existed back then, too. pregnancies were hidden. the girls mysteriously disappeared when their stomachs became too big to hide and then came back. people were married right out of high school and believe me, many of the marriages were not because they were in love with each other. it's because they got in "trouble". the population growth is one reason why being pregnant at a young age is much more noticeable.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 8:53 am
Catherine says: "just because you do not like the way people handle their own affairs does not mean that they are being irresponsible"

But it is Catherine. When someone through carelessness and selfishness has a child that they cannot afford and are not equipped to raise, that is IRRESPONSIBILITY. Why should she expect her mother to raise the child and why should she expect you and I to pay for the child? Why should she protect her boyfriend? He's the father. He should be the one paying for the physical and educational needs of the child. Why should HE expect to get off scott free? "Oh, we were just having fun." Fine, but fun has a price, now pay up.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 10:34 am
Catherine, I acknowledge that there were some illegitimate births in the 1950's, but they we4re not applauded and accepted as normal; they were the exception to the rule. Now it's all considered OK and no one is even remotely ashamed and the proof is that MOST children are born out of wedlock and are raised with no father in the picture whatsoever. Do you think that is good or healthy?
 

Ira Herson (13)
Tuesday June 12, 2012, 5:04 pm
Do you know that they call a girl that uses the rhythm method? Mother!

Excuse me Patrick, I was mistaken that your motivation was religious. I do agree that people do need to take responsibility for their actions. If the sexual activities of teens were limited to a single persons rights I would say that give them education and let them go their own way would be OK. However STDs and unwanted pregnancies do effect the community and state.

In fact if you could inoculate teens from being fertile till they were ready to have kids I would go for that too. We have seat belts in cars. helmets on bike riders. You have licenses to drive cars but nothing about the most important thing and that is child birth and care.

I also think that the whole illegitimate label is complete garbage. There is nothing illegitimate about a child. Should fathers take responsibility for their kids? absolutely.

However this leads back to the original thread of this conversation. Should a family planning clinic be situated in a school? The general response is YES! for the very same reasons you have raised. Unwanted births, STDs. irresponsibility of teen fathers and mothers.

Following your augment of; "just say no is the best policy and I would agree if it worked but it hasn't.

There was a definition of insanity " doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". The use of the Just say no system did not work. The no sex before marriage that did not work.

However; Condoms work, the Pill works. spermicides and diaphragms work. Education works.

Not providing family planning is irresponsible and just plain fooling ourselves.

The 1950s image is a wonderful fantasy. Ozzie and Harriet was a real model of an American home. It was not real then and it is not real now.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Wednesday June 13, 2012, 9:04 am
Ira says: "Not providing family planning is irresponsible and just plain fooling ourselves. The 1950s image is a wonderful fantasy. Ozzie and Harriet was a real model of an American home. It was not real then and it is not real now.

I agree that not providing sex education is irresponsible, but part of that sex education should include the option of celibacy since celibacy is the only 100% assurance against pregnancy and STD's and also generates a sense of self-control, self-esteem and self-respect. We are not just animals in heat.

And BTW, Ozzie and Harriet were real. I was raised in such a family and it wasn't a particularly religious family either; we never went to church. It was just a loving and moral two-parent family.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Wednesday June 13, 2012, 9:06 pm
Robert, I never said that the teen should not be encouraged to use celibacy. However it has not worked. I have said in earlier postings that moral teaching is part of the education taught by parents. Self-esteem and self-respect as well.

No Ozzie and Harriet were not real like you saw on TV. I went to The Marion Colbert School with RIcky Nelson. He was older then me. He was a nice guy but he did not behave like his TV persona. (also at that school was John Provost (Timmy from lassie), Jay North (Dennis the Menace) and several other child stars. None were like the kids on TV. They all were happy for birth control.

You were lucky to have a stable home but that was not the case for a large number of families. The post WWII fathers with un-diagnosed PTSD were common and although it was touted as the "golden age" of America the amount of teen pregnancies were very high.

I do not see people as "animals in heat" but the hormones of teens plus the peer pressure to have sex is a great temptation and has to be recognized. It would be the acme of foolishness to cater for the abstainers as a means of safe (no) sex.

I was pleased that as a homework assignment my high school children were told to go out and buy condoms. My children were not sexually active but it was good for them to know that if they made that decision they would know how to protect themselves.

I also taught them how to use sharp knives in the kitchen, how to make and handle matches, how to shop for food and cook it. From the age of 10 my kids could make a dinner for 12 from scratch. I talked to them about drugs and sex. I did not demonize them. My eldest daughter is married and runs a public relations company, my middle daughter teaches languages and is doing pre-law. my son is a martial arts instructor and is doing Traditional Chinese Medicine at Uni. I always told them the truth. I have armed them to handle life. As a parent I could do no less.

You say you were from a "Moral two parent family". I am assuming from your comment you mean one man one woman. There are many family types, two parent families are only one kind. I would not like to think that you would intimate that any other type is wrong.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 7:15 am
Ira Herson says: "Robert, I never said that the teen should not be encouraged to use celibacy. However it has not worked."

Well apparently the condoms haven't worked either or aren't being used or we wouldn't have this explosion of unwed mothers and STD's . 1/3 of the populations of many African countries have AID's and it's growing again here in USA among heterosexual teens so how do we account for that? That's why I stress morality coupled with condoms and fewer sexual partners. Also, many teens seem to think that the only sexual outlet they have is another person when that is entirely untrue. Many men are so "fast" and so uncaring about how the other person feels that in many cases, masturbation would be preferable. Hey, you don't have to dress up and put on perfume for that do you? But our Judeo-Christian-Muslim societies frown on masturbation when any doctor will tell his male patients that it's good and healthy for their prostates.

I know you don't believe in Ozzie and Harriet, but that world did at least partially exist, certainly to a larger extent than now. Now it's laughable or cryable to go to weddings where the couple's children are part of the wedding party, or the bride is 7 months pregnant. And that's when people choose to marry at all or have children at all. It seems that only gays want to marry and raise families and no one wants to let them. .I have 3 nephews all with live-in-girlfriends that they have traded in many times; consequently my sister-in-law has no grandchildren. There are many family types. Let's face it, gays have to be creative when it comes to families, but heterosexuals don't. Certainly two mommies or two daddies is better than one parent and a daycare center where the child bonds with the nanny but not with their own parents.
 

cathie Buchanan (113)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 7:15 am
robert, it seems to me that you didn't pay attention in your health and history classes in high school. the reason why sex education is taught is because the irresponsible parents did not teach their children about sex at home, which is why teenage pregnancies occurred in the 50s. sex education, birth control and condoms have been proven to decrease the amount of teenage pregnancies.

also, a fetus is not a child. your personal belief that a fetus is a child is your own personal belief and needs to remain as such. stop pushing your beliefs onto others.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 8:23 am
Look Robert condoms only do not work if they are not used. Masturbation is fine but come on girl, guy, moonlight, soft music.....

You would think that in the Islamic countries where non-virgin girls are killed that it would be a strong incentive to practice abstinence and yet.....

Teens will be teens and as much as you would like to see things otherwise it just is not going to go that way. So the more education. the greater availability for condoms and counselling the safer our children will be. In Australia when a couple have lived together as partners for more than 2 years they are legally in a recognized defacto relationship. The archaic concept of illegitimacy disappeared years ago.

As to Africa having aids is because they do not have condoms. It is because they do not get the sex education. It is because they have religious leadership telling them birth control is wrong.

What can I say - people that think that providing sex education and condoms are condoning bad behavior. It is nice to hanker for the good ol days when a hot night out was holding hands. It is a sweet image and for some it was true. But those days were never really there. Girls got knocked up and had a little visit to some distant relation for a few months and came back skinny.

Or more horrible then all was the back yard abortion with a coat hanger. The death rate was high and secondary infertility was common. Let us never go back to that. That was also a part of the 50s and before. Thank the stars for the Pill and condoms and legal abortions.

I think a mobile family planning clinic like a mobile lending library would be a good ideal . Go from school to school on a monthly basis.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 8:24 am
Catherine says: "irresponsible parents did not teach their children about sex at home, which is why teenage pregnancies occurred in the 50s."

Yes they did, Catherine, and for all the reasons you state, but only a small percentage, not to the extend that they do today, just check the statistics; most children are born to single moms today.

Catherine also says: "sex education, birth control and condoms have been proven to decrease the amount of teenage pregnancies"

Then why do we have to have daycare centers in high schools?????

Catherine also says: " also, a fetus is not a child."

I think that many women who have sonograms proudly displayed on their desks at their offices and who have already named the child and painted the nursery an appropriate color would tend to disagree with your statement. Although I have heard some women on here describe a fetus as an awful tumor growing inside or a BLOB, but that's merely a Nazi mentality created in the mind because it is easier to kill something once you have dehumanized it in your mind. I don't know that expressing my feelings is pushing my beliefs on anyone. It's called Freedom of Speech.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 8:31 am
Ira says: "Look Robert condoms only do not work if they are not used"

Well then you need to talk to all of the people on Care2 who claim that condoms break and don't work and that's why they need an abortion.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 2:43 pm
Robert, Yes condoms do break they are not 100%. So wear 2 condoms. Even if some condoms do break, they are vastly better than no condoms at all.

But Robert, from your postings I think that you are saying we should not provide any family planning services? That we should not advocate safe sex as opposed to unprotected sex? That we should not have councilors on hand that can advise pregnant women/girls of all the options available? That if pregnant and want to have a baby no pre-natal health is on hand. that no daycare is provided so young mothers have to drop out of school and perpetuate a poverty cycle? the list of benefits that family planning provide far outstrips objections.

I still do not see any sensible objection to having professional advice and services on hand for teens. The alternatives are; unsafe sex, more unwed mothers, high drop out rate, more uneducated girls, greater poverty.

Sure it is not perfect. but as I said before "the sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". Not providing services for teens telling them "Just say no" has not worked. So let's try providing services/solutions/support/tools and see if that helps. It cannot make it any worse.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 3:36 pm
In response to Ira, I have never opposed sex education in school. All I say is that there are more forms of irth control than just condoms and pills; teach them ALL. But I don't think that most schools even bother with encouraging abstinence as an alternative. In any event, yes, sex education is important, and so is the teaching of morals and the benefits of waiting for the right person and a genuine relationship rather than encourageing recreational sex.

Family Planning Agencies deal more with already existing pregnancies and some tend to promote abortion as a form of birth control while others simply educate the young women about all the free services and perks that they can avail themselves of. This is not good because you must realize that there is a percentage of the population out there who see breeding as a viable stay-at-home career. Their great-grandmother did it, their grandmother did it, their mother did it and now they are prepared to continue in the "Family Business". This is that poverty cycle that you talk about. By advising them that everything will be just fine and that the State will pay for their maternity and their pregnancy and their hospital stay and for everything they need all along the way, you are just encouraging them to continue getting pregnant to keep the income coming in because unlike a working Mom, they will get more income for each child.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 7:22 pm
Robert I am not sure what your point is. You think it is a bad thing to have a family planning clinic in a school because it will encourage girls to get pregnant so they can have an income from the government? Or because it will encourage girls to have abortions as a form of birth control?

I would think that family planning is simply family planning. I would think that as the clinics here do. They provide health services for women and girls who either want or don't want to get pregnant. If for some reason they need to have an abortion then they can get one. That if men want a vasectomy they can get one. That if someone contracts an STD there are specialists on hand that can provide treatment.

How are these bad things?

Your points about marriage, morals love are all wonderful things. Everyone would want to have happy stable loving relationships and families.

However in the search for all these wonderful things, people go through learning curves and experiences. Some are the wrong ones. Thank Zeus that there are wonderful people that dedicate their lives working in family planning clinics helping people overcome these problems.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Thursday June 14, 2012, 7:42 pm
What is wrong with all of this is that we are talking pregnancies, abortions, vasectomies.etc for young TEENS, as casually as if we were selecting a gym uniform or what to have for lunch. This is a major issue and instead of it being impressed upon these young and impressionable minds that it IS A BIG ISSUE, they are being given info that says: "It's no big deal." Forgot to take your pill? No big deal, just get an abortion. and you don't even have to tell your parents" "Got gonorrhea from your boyfriend? No big deal, just get some anti-biotics " "Tested positive for HIV; no big deal just get the HIV"coctail." But it IS a big deal. These young people are ruining their lives.

You say: "Your points about marriage, morals love are all wonderful things. Everyone would want to have happy stable loving relationships and families." But how are they going to do that when by the time they are ready to marry they have had 3 abortions and slept with everyone in their graduating class and now have permanent STD's like herpes or worse? No one wants damaged goods.

I guess my point is that everyone is giving these kids a bandaid instead of getting to the root of the problem which is teaching morality versus promiscuity; family planning versus recreational sex. They should have gotten this from their parents, but they didn't. It's not about religion. It's about basic morality and responsibility and no one these days is being taught responsibility. Most of these programs simply teach and enable a young person to evade responsibility after they have already committed the act.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Friday June 15, 2012, 2:57 am
I think your statements about 3 abortions by the time they get married is a bit of an exaggeration. The stuff you are currently complaining about are things that are happening without family planning or qualified support.

The statements are biased and without foundation. As I said before I do not get what you are complaining about. The amount of teen pregnancies are already too high and the support of family planning would only assist in reducing the unwanted pregnancies as well as the STDs and HIV/AIDS.

The need for proper professional council is obvious. The very idea that abortions, vasectomies and pregnancies being a casual choice like picking out a gym uniform is trivalisng the problems faced by young people.

The fact that the numbers of all the mentioned problems are already epidemic has nothing to do with the presents of family planning. It is almost like blaming the exisitance of hospitals for all the accidents and illnesses. Or mental hospitals for the high level of depression in society. Family planning addresses the results of not having the tools the teens need.

As to morality vs promiscuity, that is a question that is not in the area of schools or family planners but by families themselves and it would be an invasion if that was a process by the state.

I guess your solution would be to just allow kids to get pregnant carry STDs and spread AIDS. Forget clinics, hospitals or family planning. It is only for the promiscuous and immoral. That will teach them slutty kids, deserve what they get. Sweep them damaged goods out the door. Just more for the welfare line.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Friday June 15, 2012, 6:46 am
Ira said: "As to morality vs promiscuity, that is a question that is not in the area of schools or family planners but by families themselves and it would be an invasion if that was a process by the state. I guess your solution would be to just allow kids to get pregnant carry STDs and spread AIDS

No, I never said ban sex education, it's just that I know that these kids (just like you just said) are not getting training in morals. This would be like teaching overweight kids about stomach banding rather than teaching them how to diet and stop eating junkl foods. I know because I worked in some of these "programs" like the AIDS programs in which I was distinctly told that I could NOT advise my clients to stop doing drugs and I could NOT advise my clients to stop prostituting, I was just to clean their homes and keep my mouth shut. What was the point of that? What was the point of watching these people make their own conditions worse?????
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Friday June 15, 2012, 6:53 am
So like I said above. I guess your solution to obesity would be to have stomach banding clinics, but do Not teach children to diet and do NOT teach children to exercise and avoid junk food because that would be an invasion of privacy and a restriction of their freedom of choice. So just let them get fat and diabetic and then have a clinic to offer them lap banding and diabetes testing equipment because teens will just be teens and they are going to eat junk food whether you like it or not and it's not within the parameters of the school to teach them self-control or moderation; that would be too similar to teaching them religion.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Monday June 18, 2012, 12:15 am
Robert, do not be absurd. Of course I would advocate healthy life style for overweight people. Yes proper education is important. I have never advocated stomach banding but I would suggest that a health center be available and professional diet councilors be on hand. Fitness instruction would be a wonderful addition to a school. But would that condone obesity. I mean having a fitness instructor might encourage people saying yes to fried foods. After all if they could just lose it afterwards....... Same logic as having family planning clinics.

As to telling people to lose weight by abstaining McDonald's is not the same as making proper professional sex education and care unavailable.

I still have not gotten your objection to family planning.. What are you saying? That because family planning is there as a safety net for teens that have made bad choices they should be banned?

That girls that are "Damaged Goods" should be cast out and not get married? that only those that are "moral" and have said no to sex are good and that the others should not be given support because they are immoral. That couples that have lived together and have bastards are bad parents? What is the position you are advocating. That the only advice is Just say no. That if teens do not listen that is a moral failing?

I do not know your profession. From your posting I assume that you are a cleaner in a some aids clinic. That is commendable. I was a Ambulance Officer and Paramedic. I had to treat many people for overdoses and AIDS. I did not council them as they already knew what the story was and did not need me to tell them. Just as they do not need you to tell them. However if a teen needs advice I would prefer they got it from a professional that could give them options including but not exclusively abstinence. I would prefer that they get the whole story and not some "damaged goods" "Illegitimate" 1950s morality story that they could not relate to.

I maintain that the presents of a family planning facility located in a high school is a beneficial thing. If nothing else it would bring home the need for real sex education. The current situation is not working so positive steps are necessary. If just say no does not work then abandonment is not the answer either.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Monday June 18, 2012, 7:58 am
In reply to Ira, I repeat, I am not against sex education in school. I think that it is vital. I think sex education programs have been in place now for well over 20 years haven't they? Schools have been teaching sex education and handing out condoms for quite some time and it isn't helping as much as one would hope. God and morality are banned from public schools; perhaps that's part of the problem. As I said, when I was in high school things weren't perfect, but there were no guns, drugs and few pregnancies in high school in 1966 so what has gone wrong since? When I was in high school teachers did not have sexual affairs with their students either so what has gone wrong there? So now you think that the answer is to bring in more amoral counselors who will simply tell these young people either how to get rid of their child or how to turn, having children, into a stay-at-home career. The only reason that my three nephews haven't impregnated the entire Eastern Seaboard is because of the training they got at home, not because of any training that they got in school. Their father didn't leave a trail of illegitimate kids all over the country and so in following his example, neither will they.

I think that once you teach people that they can avoid responsibility and easily get rid of things they don't like or that get in their way, like a baby, then you teach them that there isn't much value to human life. Hence you can get rid of other things that you don't like. Don't like that nerd in English class that looks like he might be a homo? Just beat him to death on the playground or shoot him. Don't like that girl who refused to sleep with you, then just bully her and ruin her reputation on Facebook. Don't want to study? No problem, just pay someone else to take your exam. High Schools no longer teach Morality 101.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Monday June 18, 2012, 2:44 pm
Robert,
Schools never taught morality 101. IT was always the parents that had that job. The society that you describe was based on a different social order. The society allowed for a single income family that could afford housing. It was a less transient society and people had neighborhoods. I understand your hope to see a world like then. I feel sorry for my kids that they did not have the security and freedom that I had. We did not have DVDs and Cable TV. We would go out and play. We found friends in parks and knew we had to get home for dinner. On weekends I would get kicked out of the house to play and came home with my friends for lunch. Yes it was a different life.

Do not kid yourself that there were no bullies or people that did not ruin reputations. School fights were common and some of the schools I went to had gangs, It was not all peace and love. Being in school was arduous,

However it will not come again. We are dealing with a new world and the teens today have to live with it. You can still have all the morals and god you want if you send your child to a religious school. I for one do not want god taught in school. I want them to learn science not superstition.

I think I see that where we differ in our outlook. You see family planners as being amoral or encouraging promiscuity. I see them as professionals that will support the decisions of their clients/patients. The advice that they give is clinical not amoral. The teens need real facts to make real decisions.

All the other social problems that you have listed in this thread are important but not germane to this topic.

The school that we are discussing is trying to deal with a specific problem that is epidemic in their school at this time and placed. They have tried everything else in their took box and have looked outside the square. Is it an Ideal situation? not really but they care enough to try.

I for one think that they are doing the best they can and wish them luck.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Monday June 18, 2012, 5:24 pm
To Ira: So we DO have something in common. You admit that we did grow up in a better, safer world; not a perfect world without bullies or pregnancies, but certainly far better than what we have now. As you say, we could go out with friends without fear of being shot in a drug war or kidnapped or beaten up and killed by a gang. And we were safe in school, but not now.

You say: " I for one do not want god taught in school." You know what? Neither do I, if what you mean by God being taught in school as denominational teachings, dogma, superstition, and creationism. I am basically an agnostic or a Deist so I am not fond of Institutional Religion. But the kids need SOMETHING, they can't just live in a spiritual and moral vacuum; perhaps ethics or morality or something that will teach them to be considerate of others and responsible for their actions. I don't think that they are getting that at home or in school and that is what is lacking and making them very selfish and predatory.
 

Tony C. (2)
Monday June 18, 2012, 11:10 pm
A class in RESPECT AND RESPONSIBILITY should be taught from Grade one to graduation. Children should be taught that anything is permissible as long as it does not hurt themselves or anyone else. If children are taught at a very early age that every child has their own strengths and weaknesses and that they should use their strengths to help others not to tease or bully them.
It should not matter if a child comes from a FAMILY of a mother and father, 2 mothers or 2 fathers or a single mother or father as long as they are LOVED.
Sex Education should be taught on LGBT, Contraceptives, Masturbation, Pregnancy and all forms of sex. Let us face it whether we like it or not children are curious and are having sex earlier. Children should be taught the JOYS and the CONSEQUENCES of having sex ( Pregnancy, STD, AIDS and others.) Cut out Geography or History early on then put it back in. Geometry and Algebra can be learned in college if needed. I believe this is a solution. Stopping the damage before it starts so that Bullying, Sexual Assault, and many others will be greatly diminished if not eradicated. It is my belief that when children graduate with these principles where they are taught RESPECT for themselves and others and to take RESPONSIBILITY for their actions. If children grow up with these values, I believe business and government would benefit greatly. Within a few generations this world would be a much better place to live in.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Tuesday June 19, 2012, 1:54 am
Yes tony I agree. We used to have a class called citizenship. This taught the basics of living in a society. Good citizenship promoted respect for self, and others. Not having lived in the USA for over 40 years I am not aware of what is now taught in schools now. My kids went to school in Sydney and it is more like the British school systems.

LGBT is part of the school program as well as all forms of sex education and contraception. I am of course only talking about the state run schools not the Catholic or Protestant or other religious schools.

There is zero tolerance for fighting, bulling and discrimination. I am not saying that it works either or that the kids are any nicer to each other than in the USA but these are the systems that are in place. Things are more formal. Teachers are addressed as sir, Mam or Ms or Miss and the children are addressed as Mr or Miss. School uniforms are standard in all schools so there is no class distinction about clothes.

There are no middle schools or junior high there are only primary k-6 and high schools 7-12. kids can leave school in year 10 and go to vocational schools or stay on to year 12 and sit the Higher School Certificate for university placement. If accepted they are entitled to HEX which is a no interest student loan that is repaid after their income reaches a certain threshold.
 

Robert Pavlick (8)
Tuesday June 19, 2012, 7:34 am
Ira says: " Not having lived in the USA for over 40 years I am not aware of what is now taught in schools now."

That being the case, then you were hardly in a position to tell me how good the US School systems are; the urban schools are dreadful. Any sensible teacher won't even teach in an urban public school for fear of bodily harm and because the students due to years of poor training are largely unteachable. No Sir and Mam here, and they can't even verbally discipline the children because the Liberals consider that verbal abuse. But it's perfectly above board for the students to verbally abuse the teacher and one another.

Maybe you've heard the term "No child left behind." Sounds pretty good on the surface, but what it actually means is that you will be passed from grade level to grade level whether you have learned anything or not.
Vast numbers of students graduate from level 12 and can barely read or write. It's pitiful. The British and I am sure Australian school systems are excellent compared to ours.

That's why I am against any new programs that I feel will merely teach these kids how to be even more irresponsible and get paid for it to boot.
 
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