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AN OLYMPIC SIZED MISTAKE: London 2012: Silence for Munich Olympic Victims Rejected


World  (tags: world, London Olympics, ethics, 1972 Munic Olympics victims, 'HUMANRIGHTS!', 'CIVILLIBERTIES!', news, israel, humanrights, freedoms, conflict, society, politics )

Cal
- 873 days ago - bbc.co.uk
Calls for the victims of the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre to be remembered with a minute's silence at the opening of the London 2012 Games have been rebuffed by the organisers.



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Comments

Aletta Kraan (146)
Friday June 29, 2012, 5:59 pm
Noted !!!
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Friday June 29, 2012, 7:08 pm
The murders of the Israeli Olympians were horrible. But after 40 years I'm of the belief making it a continuing issue and using a moment of silence isn't necessary or productive. There's a point where things become part of history - to be remembered and taught as a part of history - rather than remaining part of everyday things today.

And I'm also of the belief the Olympics shouldn't be politicized, and this is both politicizing and polarizing. They've been too often and it's a shame. They're a thing which should be inclusive and not divisive and that's what they were created for. They're supposed to be a celebration of athletic achievement and cooperation among nations, not something to be used to remind us of tragedy from almost a half century ago. We can and should remember but don't have any need to make issues over the remembering.
 

pam w. (191)
Friday June 29, 2012, 8:37 pm
I disagree, Antonia.

The athletes were slaughtered while participating in what is SUPPOSEDLY a suspension of conflict and a desire for peaceful sport.

Their sacrifice should be noted with a simple moment of silence...a remembrance and a new commitment to the Olympic ideals.
 

ellen m. (222)
Friday June 29, 2012, 9:56 pm
I find it so sad that after all these years that horrific act should still cause division even between those that strive for a common goal, and how am i to know the right answer when even those whom it touched the heaviest do not?
I wish peace of mind and heart to all...1love
 

Jennifer C. (169)
Friday June 29, 2012, 10:16 pm
Thanks.
 

Agnes H. (144)
Friday June 29, 2012, 10:28 pm
If the Olympic Committee thinks so much about what the Arabs think for a minute's silence, then it's about time to STOP them! Even Hittler allowed the Olympic Games in Berlin, even IF he walked out when an African-American won Gold in the race he truly thought would be won by Germany.
If they really believe there would be reprisals from the Arab Nations, then let them show it and let those Nations really show the World what kind of Sportsmen they REALLY are!
America still celebrates Independence Day, whereas a lot of American Indians don't agree with that! We ALL commemorate the Fallen Soldiers of ALL the Wars, and why not? they kept us free from Tyranny and just the kind of thing the Olympic Committee is afraid of, Reprisals! I don't think there would be any. IF there would be, do you really think the Games would go on? And how quick would The US, UK, Australia start another War in the Middle East? No one wants that I'm afraid.
 

Gloria picchetti (298)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 3:53 am
The Olympic Committee is being disrespectful.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 3:58 am
Noted.
 

paul m. (93)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 5:04 am

Noted,,,,,,Well said ,,Anges H.
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 5:31 am
Agnes, you're comparing the people of a nation celebrating the founding of their nation with commemorating the murders of a number of athletes 40 years ago at a sporting event. Quite a few Olympians've died over the years, with their deaths connected with the games (about 50 years ago the entire American figure skating team was killed in an air crash on its way to the Olympics, athletes have died in competition).

Let's be realistic. This isn't proposed to commemorate just the lives of people killed. It's proposed to make a political statement. If the athletes murdered had been Brazilian and had they been killed by a random crazy shooter, I've more than a suspicion there wouldn't be such a push to keep a decades-old memory so vividly in the public eye. It's meant to be an in-your-face statement to the enemies of Israel. While I've no objection to people making in-your-face statements to their enemies (a normal activity), to expect the Olympic Committee to make the statement for you's not reasonable.
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 5:41 am
Excuse me, I've made an error. The American figure skating team was killed in a plane crash on its way to the World Championships, not the Olympics. I'd misremembered and just realized it.
 

Robyn M. (123)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 8:35 am
For respect and in rememberance of these slain athletes, every olympic games should have a few moments of silence.
 

tasunka m. (337)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 9:24 am
A moment of silence can encompass more than just Munich. Maybe just a moment for all to communally pray spiritually for peace. A moment for remembering and non-religiously give praise to the earth and the spirit of brotherhood.
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 9:46 am
I'm in agreement with that, Tasunka Atsea.
 

Allan Yorkowitz (447)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 10:20 am
I think tasunka atsea m. has the right spin on this. Without mentioning Munich, a moment of silence in the spirit of brotherhood would not be a bad idea.
This does not diminish the Olympics; it in facts brings together its purpose.
 

Christine Linley (11)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 12:47 pm
While we are at it shall we have an hour of silence for the Londerners killed during the blitz ? And how about another hour of silence for the people of Dresen that were killed gy planes flying from Britain ?
The Olymipcs are are a celebration of humankinds more pleasant achievements not a means of exploitation of its bad side foe political ends.
The whole games is meant to be a display of brotherhood where political and religious diffrences are laid aside.
 

Florence Eaise (132)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 1:10 pm
noted thanks
 

Terri Hughes (412)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 1:23 pm
This is very sad that they cannot give the victims of this horrible tragedy a moment of silence. They deserve that much. There is nothing political about it. There are some people that just want to make it political. Some people just don't have any compassion for others, it's all about them. They don't want to share the spot light for ONE moment, to remember someone else. Very disrespectful. And who gives a S**T what the Arabs think, if they don't like it, they need to LEAVE. Think about how the victims families feel, they deserve this, also. ''RIP''.....to all these men!!!!
 

Marie Russell-Barker (13)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 1:37 pm
Ithink honoring those who suffered and died fourth years ago sahould be honored I think by trying not to offend those who may or may not walk out of the sermoning I think those people would understand not all are for terror's.
 

Margaret Reardon (0)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 4:45 pm
I'm with tasunka atsea. There are many reasons for a minute of silence; it might as well be for all of them.
 

michelle t. (41)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 5:28 pm
Shame one the London Games organiser jerks.A minute silence is essentail to enable respect to be be paid and rememebrence to these murdered althletes of 1972 and their loved ones.
 

Shan D. (49)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 5:39 pm
"Games organisers Locog and the International Olympic Committee may fear provoking a walkout from some Arab countries and are keen to avoid the games being politicised." (article)

Then let them walk out, if they're too sensitive or stupid to understand that this is a way to honor the memories of victims of terrorism. Do modern-day German citizens throw a fit over Remembrance Day ceremonies? No? Then it's time the Arab countries just GROW THE HELL UP!


"It's meant to be an in-your-face statement to the enemies of Israel." - Antonia Windham -

You just don't get it, do you? The Olympics, in its purest form, is a way for everyone to get together for friendly and PEACEFUL competition. Warring nations could send representatives and they would NOT try to kill each other. The murders of these athletes VIOLATED that. It WAS a politically-motivated crime.

It doesn't matter who committed this terrorist act. The point of the minute of silence is to remind people that it happened, it was horrible, and IT MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. There must NEVER be another murder perpetrated at the Olympics, by ANYONE, for ANY reason.

Otherwise, we haven't learned a thing.
 

Malcolm Bush (0)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 6:24 pm
There should be a minute's silence for all victims everywhere or none at all. Whilst I can sympathize with those who are close to those who were victims of these attacks, arbitrary justice is not the answer.
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 7:25 pm
Christine Linley misses the whole point of this request for a Minutes Silence. This horrific crime happened during what was supposed to be GAMES OF PEACE - INTERNATIONALLY. How far back does she want to go - Crusades, Boer and Crimeans Wars et al? They were real wars - the Munich Games were not. Thanks Cal.
 

Kevin Lewis (1)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 7:39 pm
I think it's very disgusting that the "organizers" of the London 2012 Olympic games wouldn't give a minute of silence to the murdered athletes and coaches from the 1972 Munich Olympics.
 

Nimue Pendragon (270)
Saturday June 30, 2012, 8:29 pm
A minute of silence to remember a sad event costs nothing.
 

Xil L. (40)
Sunday July 1, 2012, 5:55 am
Questionable sponsors, racism, corruption, animal massacres, what else will come to surface if they associate it with politics...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jan/25/dow-chemical-2012-stadium-wrap

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/20/euro-2012-corruption-allegations-ukraine

http://action.peta.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=5&ea.campaign.id=12799

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-italy-associations-fined-over-football-racism/24629718.html
 

Sonny Honrado (6)
Sunday July 1, 2012, 7:36 am
We can only hope!
 

Kate Kenner (203)
Sunday July 1, 2012, 12:53 pm
the Arabs were indeed responsible but they are not blaming those there this year or even mentioning them. The focus would be on those who died I would hope and not those who acted out these murders.
 

Joy McR (137)
Sunday July 1, 2012, 1:24 pm
What is just one minute? not very long, so WHY not? soooo sad.
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Sunday July 1, 2012, 4:00 pm
Perhaps some've no knowledge that the slain athletes have been commemorated numerous times, both by a massive memorial service for about 100,000 attendees at Munich, a memorial at the next Olympic games, permament memorial plaques at the Munich arena and at the Sydney games arena almost 30 years later.

Odd how no one's asking for a moment of silence specifically for the people murdered and the over 100 injured during the Atlanta Olympic games bombing by Eric Rudolph in his quest to publicize his anti-abortion views? Which happened much more recently. They were just as much terrorism victims (though, of course, few people tend to remember them and the faces and names of the dead certainly aren't of public interest.)

Those who made this proposal've gotten what they wanted. They've gotten their publicity and they've gotten their ability to criticize the IOC for its refusal. And they've gotten a chance to publicly stick it to those they hate. And whatever else they were looking for.

And most of all they've gotten the chance to use the memory of the murdered athletes to promote a political agenda. But then to so many people matter little as compared to causes.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Monday July 2, 2012, 6:08 am
Antonia, it is all depends on the promoted political agenda!

Arab states protest against recognition of the act of Arab terror speaks for itself. They don't regret the act, they consider it heroic and not deserving condemnation. This is exactly why the world had to take a stand and tell them 'NO', the murder is not a glorious act and not a cheap way to Paradise, it is a disgrace, and will remembered at all Olympic Games as such.

In comparison, nobody condones acts of other terrorists attacking crowds of Olympic fans, like Eric Rudolph and others. And even the, remembering that act of terror would still contribute to the mutual tolerance.

Keeping silent in the face of Arab states dictate does not bring respect or dignity to anybody. And shame to those Arab states who expressed that dictate.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Monday July 2, 2012, 7:09 am
People need to remember that the athletes and the German policeman that were murdered were not just Israelis but Olympians.

A moment of silence is not only appropriate but necessary. It is important to recognize that when athletes are at the Olympics they may represent their countries but it is under the Olympic flag. When any athletes are killed it is an attack on the Olympics.

When people say it is because it was just the Israelis they are not only minimizing the terrorist act, but they are also trivializing the Olympics as well.

There are also those that say that to honor the murdered Israelis would anger the Muslims. Is that to say that Muslims think it was a good thing to kill. That sells the Muslim Olympians short as well as all Muslims that would support peace.

Yes to forget the act of murdering Olympians is almost like condoning the act itself. Shame on those that would do that.
 

Brenda Towers (0)
Monday July 2, 2012, 10:25 am
Noted, with disappointment.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday July 2, 2012, 4:05 pm
The Israeli athletes were there to compete, not to die. Security was lax and the terrorists murdered innocent people. That Arab states object to a moment of silence shows they're not very interested in peace. Because they died at the Olympics as a result of being in the Olympics, I don't think a moment of silence is too much to ask. Bowing to fear of Arab reprisals or walkouts is cowardly. Hey, Charles O. Poets and writers do not murder people. And a big sieg heil to you.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Monday July 2, 2012, 10:42 pm
O Charles O,
I am sure that the current rant is significant and blames the Athletes for getting themselves killed because they were Zionists.

There was no terror in the middle east till Israel was founded? That is a weird statement. I suppose that it was OK to kill them because they are Israelis and so not worthy in your view to be allowed to compete in peace. Are you personally responsible for any of the political actions of the American government?

You see by condoning the killing of these athletes you with the argument that it was justified because you disagree with the policies of the government of Israel makes you a terror supporter.

As to the moment of silence it shows that they Olympics honors the victims of it's citizens. I know you think that the Zionists control the world and are the source of all things bad, you white wash the actions of others as long as it is anti-Israel.

IN a posting you praised the poet Ghassan Kanafani. You did not mention that he was the spokes person for the PFLP that claimed the attack on Lod airport that killed 26 people. But hey the killing of tourists in Israel is OK because they are only supporting Zionists.

Oh and your good buddy Bassam Abu Sharif who was also PFLP and claimed responsibility for the 1970 hijacking of 5 planes and the taking of 56 Jewish hostages to Jordan helped to spark a conflict in Jordan that caused the Black September war with Syria that killed thousands. Oh yeah sweet guy. He is raving that the Zionists killed the Kennedys. The FBI and the CIA are all asleep. I just watched him on Miri TV this guys just loves to make stuff up as he goes along. Even the Arab interviewer thought he was a nut case.

Now getting back to the original thread, and getting past your desire to legitimize the killing of athletes for political purposes. A moment of silence for murdered Olympians is appropriate. So here is a gold medal to you Charles for the unwavering support of the murder of athletes in a global event. A second Gold medal for illogical gymnastics to make the victims of murder the guilty parties.
 

Jamal Hamzeh (1)
Monday July 2, 2012, 11:19 pm
Well said, Charles O.
Every word you have said is true and all the people who are defending Israel are ignoring the Israeli major role in the world wide terrorism!
 

Ira Herson (13)
Tuesday July 3, 2012, 4:58 am
Most of your suppositions about me are wrong, Ira H.. So you are not arguing with me: You are arguing with a strawman.

Are you a strawman? You use the worst form of propaganda to denigrate a people for your own subjective view. No I think most of my suppositions about you are right.

You constantly try to link the activities of the Nazi as the motivation of the Israelis. Such is not only wrong but the lowest form of disingenuousness.

The Nazi gathered Jews, Gypsies and Gays as well as others and separated men from women, sick from those that could work. Systematically murdered those that could not work, and then proceeded to work and starve the rest till they could not work and then killed them except the ones they performed medical experiments on.

Only the most insane of terrorist has claimed that the Zionists ever did anything like that. I saw a Hamas TV show that claimed that the Jews ran the German concentration camps and killed off their own weak Jews!

The country of Israel has a civil government with an independent civil court. It has elections that include all parties that have proportional representation. The very definition of fascism denies debate and forbids multiple parties and is a dictatorship. Arab Israelis have the same rights and privileges as the Jewish ones. At the current time over 20% of the parliament is controlled by Arab parties.

In Israel Gay rights are respected and all religions are permitted. So again you would like to say that Zionism = fascism is complete falsehood.

The idea that people are not worthy to live because of their ethnicity IS your position. You do look like an anti-Semite to me. You look like a person that condones the killing of athletes for political purposes and as long the dead athletes are Israelis it is ok.

Your assertions are that there is only one evil in the world and that it is Israel. Well since that is your position it allows the terror acts as being justified. You like to say that It is the superior nature of tribalism that condones violence. Yes it does – The groups you support like Hamas call all the Jews pigs and dogs and that as they are inferior it is good to kill them.

You like to think you are being reasonable by saying how you are against fascism then you compare Zionism with fascism so you can hate it. Your position, calls for the death of a whole people. You support groups like Hamas, Islamic Brotherhood and Hezbollah. These organisations have deliberately attacked civilians. Strapped bombs on children and sent them to kill and die.

Your statement “The Jewish fascist is no better than the German, Italian or Spanish fascist. His bellicosity is suicidal. In the end, the Third Reich destroyed itself. And the Israeli Reich will fare no better.”

No the Third Reich did not destroy itself. It took the combined efforts of many armies and people like my uncles that fought in WW2 to bring them down. It is no coincidence that the leader of the Palestinians Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseiniin was a great friend of Hitler and the avowed inspiration for Yasser Arafat.

Your continuous need to compare Israelis to Nazis is a further insult to the millions of Jews, Gypsies Gays and political prisoners that were murdered. Israel does not have global aspirations. (There is no Israeli Reich. The meaning of Reich is Germany. So Israel is Germany? )

You do not like the idea of a minuets silence for the murdered Olympic athletes and the German policeman that died to defend them, fine. At the start of the games you can celebrate their murder. Have a laugh, toast the terrorists and have a ball. I on the other hand will mourn the loss to the world of a symbol of peace. I will consider the fact that a group of murderers have taken something from the world.
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Tuesday July 3, 2012, 5:09 am
The idea that people're not worthy to live because of their ethnicity is a human idea, Charles, and isn't restricted to one ideological group.

And Ira Herson, no one's suggesting that we should 'forget' the murdered athletes. Just as I've not forgotten my dearly loved great-grandfather who died 43 years ago. But the memorial was held 43 years ago for him and I and my family aren't planning to hold another one now. And the lack of a memorial today doesn't mean he's been forgotten.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Tuesday July 3, 2012, 2:27 pm
> Your position, calls for the death of a whole people.

(My response:) Where do you get this nonsense?! The death of a whole people is one of the things I am trying to avoid. It's one of the reasons why I oppose fascism -- and its offshoot, Zionism.
Not true! Zionism is not an offshoot of Fascism as it was the aspirations of people to have a refuge from pogroms and torture.

What do the Zionists intend to do with the millions of Palestinians who have been kept under military occupation and bombardment for the last 45 years? Kill them off?
Not true – It was the other way around – Israelis have tried to make peace and have separate countries since it’s inception .

. .

> Your assertions are that there is only one evil in the world and that it is Israel.
Not true – IN all your writing to date you blame Israel or the “Zioshpere” that controls the whole USA. Europe, Arab League, etc. You have never once condemned the actions of Hamas or Hezbollah for deliberately killing people indiscriminately.

(My response:) I make no such assertion, Ira. I strongly oppose the Islamists who are trying to take over Syria and destroy the secular government there.
Not true - Turkey has supported the overthrow of Syria. They are a secular nation that is sick of the Assad regime.

Why does the Ziosphere keep helping these terrorists? -- in Kosovo, in Libya, and now in Syria?


Israel is not the ONLY evil in the world. But it is attempting to start WW III. Israel-first insiders -- William Kristol, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, etc. -- promoted the trillion-dollar holocaust in Iraq, and now they want the U.S. to create an even bigger holocaust in Iran.
Not true – All the people you have mentioned are American not Israeli. All those mentioned are in the pocket of Saudi Arabia not Israel. The Saudis and the Texas corporate powers are running that show.

Don't I have a right to oppose this criminal insanity? You sure do; but your prejudice is aimed at the wrong people.
Do you see us Americans as nothing but cannon-fodder and cash-cows? Israel is not the ONLY evil, but it is the evil that most matters, because it is the evil that drives the U.S. to make war.
Not True – Your friends Dick Chaney and the Haliburton Corporation, George Bush 1 & 2 and all their buddies the Saudis that pay them see the USA as a cash cow. They are the ones that have profited.

.

> The country of Israel has a civil government with an independent civil court. It has elections that include all parties that have proportional representation.

(My response:) But millions of people who are under Israeli governance do not get to vote in these elections! They have NO representation, and no rights. For them, Israel is a murderous dictator. These people have been ghettoized, in the same way that Jews were ghettoized in the Third Reich.
Not True – The Palestinian People vote for Hamas. Hamas does not recognize Israel and has vowed for it’s destruction. They are the ones in charge of security and they have used that position to create such enmity and violence that Israel closed it’s borders.
It is funny that you like to assert that the Third Reich created ghettos. Actually it was the Catholic Church and their rulers that forced Jews to live in walled neighbourhoods at sundown. It was one of the reasons Jews dreamed of a land of Zion so they could live where they could be Jews. I guess the Ziosphere created the Catholic Church too?. .

> No the Third Reich did not destroy itself. It took the combined efforts of many armies and people like my uncles that fought in WW2 to bring them down.

(My response:) Of course. But it was possible to bring these fascists down because they made war on two fronts and over-extended themselves.
Yes they made tactical mistakes but it was the efforts of others not a self destruction that you said.
Arrogance precedes the fall. With their contempt for their victims and their contempt for international law, the Zionists have cut themselves off from the human race. They've painted themselves into a corner. With their Masada complex and their hundreds of nukes, they are now likely to blow themselves up. They prefer their xenophobic supremacist ideology to life itself.
Not true – With all the power you say they have and all their contempt for blah blah they have had the ability to destroy all the Palestinians and their neighbours that have called for their death and yet they have not done that. They participate in the larger world giving medical and agricultural aid to countries in need, provide education and provide research and development that have been used by everyone including you.
No it is simply your anti-Semitism that drives your rants. You write under the guise of wanting peace and justice while condoning violence. In your world Hamas, Hezbollah and the Islamic Brotherhood are all just the greatest guys around. It is the nasty Jews and their Ziosphere that is the cause of all the problems. Without them gosh Sunni and Shiite would kiss and make up. All those al-Qaeda folk would be just the sweetest things (imagine a southern accent).
So I guess you will be celebrating the Munich Murders this year, after all they were only Zionists. Not like real people.
 

Liliana D. (124)
Tuesday July 3, 2012, 3:04 pm
I agree with Tasunka, if a commemoration should be "for all to communally pray spiritually for peace".
For the rest I agree with Charles O.
 

Jamal Hamzeh (1)
Wednesday July 4, 2012, 5:38 am
Ira Herson writes:

"Arab Israelis have the same rights and privileges as the Jewish ones. At the current time over 20% of the parliament is controlled by Arab parties"

(My response:) Come on! Are you serious!!!?
You can say whatever you want about Israel's good deeds, except this wrong information.
Israel has the most racist government and people in the world! Arabs in Israel are in the lowest level and the Israeli government doesn't stop making their lives like hell, specially the Arabs who live in Jerusalem!
The Israeli Parliament has a few Arab members, most of them have cases in the Israeli courts because of their believes and their supporting activities to Arab rights in Israel!

see the last video for the Israeli Soldiers hitting a little kid in Hebron just for fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iTzB1N_EZXU

About me, I am a Palestinian, who was born in 1982 as refugee in Jordan and the only thing I was taught since I was kid is that the Jews took my land because God gave it to them as a gift 3000 years ago!
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday July 4, 2012, 8:23 am
Jamal, they taught you wrong! You likely never been to Israel, and you did not have a chance to check what is going on. I was there, saw Arabs with red flags, Arab owbers of businesses, Arab doctors, wearing Arab clothes without fuss.

Jordan, where you were born, grabbed 80% of lands given to Jews and Arabs. Israel does not make a big deal out of it, but that's because they don't want to fight, not because the land is not theirs.

You are as much a Palestinian and lots of Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, Lebanses and Israelis - Palestine covers several state, and not everyone agrees with a segment of Arabs appropriating title shared by many. It's like one European country decided to be called Europe. That's not fair to others, who don't follow the doctrine you learnt in your school.

Arab PR workers put lots of nonsense on YouTube - it is cheap and does not pass "honesty" control. I saw obvious fakes myself there. Don't trust liars.


 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday July 4, 2012, 8:27 am
Antonia, refusal of Arab states to the moment of silence tells that fascist mood among them still exists and did not die together with Hitler's friend The Mufti of Jerusalem.

If your grandfather was killed, and the murderers would be still at large you would be saying something, not trying to close memories.
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Wednesday July 4, 2012, 9:26 am
Anyone who's a belief that Arab citizens of Israel have exactly the same civil rights and privileges as Jewish Israeli citizens and are treated the same by Israel's government and society simply isn't looking at what's actual reality. Though Israel's treatment of its minority citizens's rights is better (sometimes much better) than some of its neighbors in the Middle East, government discrimination does exist and even when the laws're supposed to protect all citizens equally sometimes in practice they're tossed aside in favor of prejudice. In things ranging from reclamation of property rights to education funding to official government disapproval of mixed marriage to so many other things, Arab citizens of Israel don't have the same status as Jewish citizens.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday July 4, 2012, 11:54 am
Antonia, those issues are not directed specifically at Israeli Arabs.

Israel's recognition of religious marriages affects all non-religious people alike.

Arab have preferred property rights and are supported by a number of wealthy and powerful NGO, making reclaiming government lands stolen by Arab thieves much more difficult, than claiming it back from Jewish thieves. Israel destroyed Jewish villages in a stupid hope that it will bring peace, but not Arab villages.

Israel desire to minimize Arab immigration into Israel is understandable, considering what Canada or US did to the population of Japanese "enemy aliens" during the WWII, and, in comparison, Israel is much much softer on its Arabs. After all, some of Israeli Arab citizen do support terror and treason against the state they live in, and present a great danger to society, to be taken seriously.

Education funding of Arabs is kept at better level than Jewish schools, with Arabs making about 20% of high school population, the same or higher than their share of Israeli population. Arab schools are funded from public funds - in comparison, only Catholic schools are publicly funded in Canada, while Arab schools are NOT. Arab schools are not publicly funded in US as well, so Israel is really a step ahead here.

Arab citizen are not conscripted to the Israeli Army, as well as Jewish Orthodox citizen, because service in the Army is considered inappropriate in their respective communities. Druze go to Israeli Army and the best of them became generals.

Israel has Arab government ministers, doctors, diplomats and whatever else one can be. Comparing to other DEMOCRATIC countries, Israel is doing pretty good, not even talking about Arab states where one sect would be torturing any other weaker ones.
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Wednesday July 4, 2012, 12:28 pm
Propoganda's always pretty obvious to the observer, Bob Algeron. And you're really not very good (or accurate) at it.

 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday July 4, 2012, 8:01 pm
"Propoganda's always pretty obvious to the observer" - This can be said to anyone, Antonia.

I am not claiming to be "good" at propaganda. If you say I was not accurate - please feel free to dispute any of the facts I brought.

Otherwise, I am tired of Arab states which at times are claiming being victims and at the next times coming with a laundry lists of threats and demands to the whole world.

I consider UNWRA - the only UN agency exclusively devoted to support of millions of Arabs - descendants of second-third--fourth generations of real Arab refugees from Israel to be the largest known ongoing scam of western taxpayers.

I think Israel does to Arabs not only incomparably better than Arabs do to Jews in Arab countries, but even comparing to how enemy aliens are treated by the warring democratic countries. And let's not forget that Hamas is at religious war with Israel forever.

Israel is one of the few places where US sailors feel safe, and I don't see a reason for anyone American to attack it in order to defend Arab states.
 

Jamal Hamzeh (1)
Wednesday July 4, 2012, 10:50 pm
Hi Bob Algeron,

No body taught me wrong, this is what the Israelis themselves say all the time, God gave us this land and we are the chosen people to live in the Holy land!
use google and check by yourself!

I have never been to (Palestine) because I am not allowed to go back to my land again! but I have many family members and friends there and I know exactly the disgrace they see everyday from the Israelis.

I think you've been to West Jerusalem and Tel Aviv when you visited Israel, so you didn't see the check points in the west bank! and you didn't see how the Israeli army making the Palestinians life like hell!

You cannot say that all the videos on youtube are fake! this is not true, but OK see this documentary, it was filmed by Israelis, and here I can say that not all the Israelis are bad!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mrXCQTG5pI

This is the daily Palestinian life in West Bank!

You said: "Jordan, where you were born, grabbed 80% of lands given to Jews and Arabs. Israel does not make a big deal out of it, but that's because they don't want to fight, not because the land is not theirs"

What land??? Are you sure?
The border between Jordan and Israel is the Jordan River, unless you think that some lands that Abraham walked in 3000 years ago is for Israel! in that way you are speaking in their language!

I am not trying to change your thoughts and you can never do the same to me, but as you said in your profile:
as your Philosophy: "Respect others and expect respect in return".

I don't hate Jews and actually I am working now with some British Jews in Dubai and we are friends.
My issue is with the Zionists who took my land and killed my people!
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Thursday July 5, 2012, 5:29 am
Jamal, I'd imagine Bob Algeron is speaking of the majority of Jordanian land being land that was once part of the British Mandate for Palestine.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Thursday July 5, 2012, 5:30 am
The thread of this story is the Olympics decision not to give a minuets silence in respect to dead athletes killed by terrorists.

If you do or do not like it fine. But casting allegations and OpEds about the legitimacy of Palestinian or Israeli clams are a different story.

For those of you who think it is a sad thing to kill athletes for political reasons can give it a minuets thought. For those that hate Jews and like to see them killed then do what you want.

there are so many lies and half truths listed here I do not have the energy to correct them. There are quotes here that are completely made up as well as whole conspiracy theories that just make me think that the pharmaceutical companies could make a fortune medicating.

Israel exists and is a sovereign nation. Palestinians have a shit life. both situations are true. Most Israelis are decent people. Most Palestinians are decent people. Are there leaders on both sides that suck yes there are. Are there militants in Israel yes. Are there terrorists Palestinians yes there are.

As for me, I am going to take a minuet of silence for the murdered athletes. I would for them if they were Iranian, Palestinian or American.

The very fact that the level of hate engendered by the notion that we should consider the death of these athletes shows that over the time since the killing the world has only gotten uglier and the terrorists have only gotten bolder.
 

Jamal Hamzeh (1)
Thursday July 5, 2012, 5:38 am
Antonia Windham writes:
"Jamal, I'd imagine Bob Algeron is speaking of the majority of Jordanian land being land that was once part of the British Mandate for Palestine."

I think you are right, Bob's age as it's mentioned in his profile is 111 years!
 

Ira Herson (13)
Thursday July 5, 2012, 6:28 am
The people that I am going to think about at the start of the games.

Moshe Weinberg (wrestling coach) He was riddled with bullets by Palestinian terrorist to prove they were serious and thrown naked into the street.

Yossef Romano (weightlifter) Romano's bloodied corpse was left at the feet of his teammates all day as a warning. He had resisted.

Ze'ev Friedman (weightlifter) He was on the helicopter and was murdered when the police tried to rescue him.
David Berger (weightlifter)American born. Had a PhD in law from Columbia. He died from the fire in the Helicopter when a Palestinian terrorist set off a hand grenade.

Yakov Springer (weightlifting judge) Springer was a holocaust survivor from Poland. He was killed in the fire on the Helicopter.

Eliezer Halfin (wrestler) Born in Riga 1948. Murdered on the Helicopter

Yossef Gutfreund (wrestling referee) He was shot to death by Palestinian terrorists during the rescue attempt.

Kehat Shorr (shooting coach) Born in Romania he was also shot to death by Palestinian terrorists.
Mark Slavin (wrestler) Born in the USSR he only got to Israel in 1972, just a few months before going to the Olympics. He was shot to death by Palestinian terrorists.

Andre Spitzer (fencing coach) Born in Romania he came to Israel in 1964. He was known to find ways to make peace with everyone. He was shot to death by Palestinian terrorists.

Amitzur Shapira (track coach) He worked as a Sports teacher and trained young athletes. He was shot to death by Palestinian terrorists.

Anton Fliegerbauer (German police officer) He was the helicopter pilot and tried to save the athletes. He was shot to death by Palestinian terrorists.

The Palestinian terrorists were from a faction called Black September. This was part of a group controlled by the PLO.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Thursday July 5, 2012, 6:59 am
Oh Charles O,
You do like to stretch things just a bit don't you. The USS Liberty was attacked during the 6 day war and the investigations by both the USA and Israel showed that it was a mistake in ID.
there were not 200 dead sailors but 34. Israel paid millions in compensation to the families. It was a tragedy but then all war is a tragedy.

I know it is your goal to make Israel look as bad as you can. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

However what this has to do with the murder of Olympic athletes is a little beyond me. Unless it is your way to justify the killing of the Israelis that went to Munich.

I have noticed in all your comments, I have never read anything from you that criticizes the actions of any terror group.

I know you say how you hate fascism but do you hate terror? Do you approve strapping bombs on children and sending them out to kill and die? Do you think it is OK to send murder squads into day care centers and machine gun children like the Black September/PLO group did in Ma'alot?

All I ever see you write is how the Israelis are fascists. Hmmm,,,, could it be you are not being particularly unbiased?
 

Antonia Windham (6)
Thursday July 5, 2012, 8:22 am
Ira, I'm curious as to why you don't also plan to 'think about', at the start of the Games:

Alice Hawthorne (Olympic terrorism victim, 1996)

Melih Uzunyol (Olympic terrorism victim, 1996)

(And the over 100 other non-fatal victims in 1996)?

Are they perhaps left off your list because they weren't targeted due to their being of a particular group?
 

Diane L. (110)
Saturday July 7, 2012, 3:52 am
Wow, dozens upon DOZENS of comments PRO and CON regarding Israel. All of them are completely off topic. The topic is whether the Olympic Committee should approve of and include in ceremonies at THIS year's Summer Olympics, a brief "moment of silence" to honor the dead of another Olympic Games. What on earth could be wrong with doing that? It's not a show of respect for a country, but to athletes who died trying to participate in athletic events that were devoid of politics. What would the difference be to showing a moment of silence and respect for Black baseball playes who, in decades past, were not allowed to be on major league teams, during the World Series? We've done just that. We've honored Lou Gehrig in the same way.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Saturday July 7, 2012, 4:47 am
Well Said Diane
 

Anna Undebeck (205)
Friday July 27, 2012, 12:44 am
Very well said Ellen McCabe- feel the same way!
 

Ira Herson (13)
Friday July 27, 2012, 5:40 am
A moment of silence should be given to all the Olympians that have been killed by terror in any Olympics. It will send a message that the Olympics is not a venue for politics, but a place for peace between all nations and people. People that want to make the remembrance a political point are giving the terrorists some form of validity. Shame on people that would do that. Shame on people that would make excuses for the murder of the Olympians in Germany and the USA. Remember it was Olympians that were killed. If you want to hold a minuets silence for others for other reasons then of course do so. I for one will honor them.
 
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