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US Default Seen as Disaster Dwarfing Lehman's Fall


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: debt limit fight, republicans, obama, politics, government, ethics, congress, usa, economy, news, ethics )

Cal
- 325 days ago - money.msn.com
Among dozens of money managers, economists, bankers, traders and former government officials, few view such an event as anything but a financial apocalypse



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Comments

Robert K. (31)
Monday October 7, 2013, 5:24 pm
Obamacare reduces the debt, and the reason we have the debt at all is the tax cuts for the rich passed by Reagan and Bush II. I'm no fan of Clinton, but if Bush had left his policies in place and paid attention to the FBI and intelligence warnings the national debt would have been erased by 2009.


Believing in Republican economics is an exact equivalent to believing in the tooth fairy. Except that the tooth fairy brings money and the Republicans steal it for their corporate owners.
 

Jason R. (60)
Monday October 7, 2013, 6:50 pm
You speak the truth, Robert. Randi Rhodes just said the KY Governor had a study done on the ACA and it saves the state a bunch while creating 17,000 jobs! It's the best thing to happen since the end of gwbusHs reign of terror.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/09/27/steve_beshear_on_obamacare_kentucky_governor_makes_the_case.html

Now, i don't think I'd mind putting a giant hurting on wall street, if not so many people forced into a 401ks.

Didn't Hitler default on their debt to get out of it for 10 cents on the dollar?
 

Jason R. (60)
Monday October 7, 2013, 6:55 pm
Yup..NYT piece...
Business Day

Market Place; Hitler Defaulted, but Now Germany Will Pay Debt
By FLOYD NORRIS
Published: January 06, 1995
 

Jason R. (60)
Monday October 7, 2013, 6:56 pm
Huh?
Business Day

Market Place; Hitler Defaulted, but Now Germany Will Pay Debt
By FLOYD NORRIS
Published: January 06, 1995


Sometimes a bad debt turns good. You just have to wait a half-century.

Between the two world wars American investors lent Germany the then huge sum of $210 million as part of the first great international effort to bail out a bankrupt country. A few years later Hitler came to power and defaulted on the loans. Now the German Government is taking steps to pay the last of the money owed.

For decades, the chances of the new payments being made seemed remote. In 1953 an international conference decided that Germany would have to pay only after the divided nation was reunified -- a prospect that at the height of the cold war seemed unlikely.

But it happened. Germany has been united, and six decades after the default the German Government is offering the lenders -- or more likely their descendants -- new bonds that will mature 15 years from now, 86 years after the original loans were made.

The American bondholders were the victims of decisions made at the end of two world wars. The money was lent to Germany to allow it to make reparations payments that the victorious European Allies had demanded after World War I.
 

Susan Allen (221)
Monday October 7, 2013, 7:11 pm
Noted and shared
 

Susanne R. (249)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 12:15 am
I did a bit of research today and learned that it's very difficult to recall a member of Congress. However, it IS possible in 18 states.

Considering the ignorant, reckless and vindictive behavior of House Republicans -- which has the potential to cause economic disaster in this country and throughout the world -- I think it's time the American people took steps to petition for recall the House Representatives who are not fulfilling the will of the people in States where recall is possible.

The states that offer their citizens an opportunity to recall elected officials include: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, North Dakota, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington, and Wisconsin all have recall of some kind available to their voters. Only seven of these states require any grounds. This information appears in a Legal Analysis Prepared for the U.S. Citizens Association written by Attorney David C. Grossack: RECALLING U.S. SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN

I also found a list of instruction on how citizens from these 18 states can initiate the recall process. For detailed instructions, please click on the links provided below:

How do I Remove a Representative From Office?

Can Citizens Remove a Politician From Office?

How to Recall a State Representative

The time to act is now! Even if this process is unsuccessful, it will send a clear message that Americans want to take back their government! The members of Congress need to be reminded that we hired them and we can fire them --even if that means waiting until we can vote them out of office.
 

Susanne R. (249)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 12:24 am
If you're having trouble accessing the first link, here's another attempt to make it accessible: RECALLING U.S. SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN

Or, copy and paste this link:
http://www.uscitizensassociation.com/pdfs/Recalling%20U.S.%20Senators%20and%20Congressmen.pdf



 

Ganaisha Calvin (6)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 12:56 am
thanks for sharing
 

John S. (300)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 4:06 am
Susanne, you really should have paid attention in school, and if you are not going to take your medicine, I will have to report you. On the other hand, feel free to recall any politician from New York.
 

. (0)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 6:37 am
Great article, Cal. Thanks for sharing.
 

Jason R. (60)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 9:31 am
John, What does that mean?
 

Mike H. (220)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 10:02 am
John S you have been flagged
 

Theodore Shayne (56)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 10:24 am
These people have no shame. How embarrassing in the eyes of the world.
 

Arielle S. (317)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 11:00 am
Great stuff, Susanne! I'm copying the links to send to my Larry, Curly and Moe....
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 12:04 pm
A logical question here:
A) If the Koch brothers own the Tea Party and can engineer all this bring-down-the-government nonsense from behind the scenes (and we know that's true), then they must be pretty smart to be able to pull it off.
B) If they are so smart, they have to know what a default would do not only to the country but also to the cash stuffed under THEIR mattresses. (They can't have ALL their money in the Cayman Islands.)
C) If they are so smart and they know that a default would destroy their own stash, why are they allowing their minions to go forward with such a suicidal plan?
 

Karin Abraham (27)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 4:31 pm
This is a very scarey situation a handful of people have put us in. These people seem to think only in the short term and this is dangerous for our long-term democracy. If our country goes into default, everything crumbles. We'd have so many homeless senior citizens (I'd be among them) and disabled people not to mention children and their mothers. I'm the kind of person who's got a strategic mind and can see far into the future of many current situations. Have been able to do this for a long time and have occasionally picked the wrong scenario, but I'm frequently right. I do not see anything good coming from a default.
 

Susanne R. (249)
Tuesday October 8, 2013, 9:47 pm
John S. -- There IS no mechanism in place to recall a member of Congress in NY state. If you had read my comment or the links I provided you would know this. You accuse me of not having paid attention in school (i.e., being uneducated) and of having some type of unspecified mental or physical condition that requires medication (i.e., being mentally or physically ill) --yet you don't explain what caused you to come to that conclusion.

I'm not and never claimed to be an expert on the subject at hand, and I could very well be on the wrong track in spite of the research I did before posting my comment. Therefore, if the information and resources I provided in my comment are incorrect, please do us all a favor and provide the correct information. That would be helpful to me and anyone else who might be interested in taking the suggested action. I'm not offended when I'm corrected because it's never my intent to share false or misleading information, and being corrected keeps me from doing so. What I DO find offensive are your demeaning assumptions about my intelligence and my mental or physical health.

Your insulting remarks are contrary to what you wrote about yourself on your home page. You wrote:

"Stop with the name calling and insults. We can disagree without being ridiculous. Understand that there are no easy answers to these conflicts..."

Perhaps you should practice what you preach.
 
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