Sunday November 1, 2009, 7:30 pm
I don't blame the boy, it's just sad. Good thing he was with his dad, because had he been with friends, then his story might have been doubted.

Sunday November 1, 2009, 8:16 pm
I agree that it was good that he was with his father. Unfortantly something self defence it just that. Recently my best friend uncle who live in KY had to shoot a seventeen foot long rattlesnake. The snake was extemely aggressive and went after his dog. It is always better is you can get out of this sort of thing without having to kill anything but sometimes you cannot.

Sunday November 1, 2009, 9:43 pm
thanks Tom! gotta feel for the cat! never really had a chance! and oh ya ,the picture of the mighty hunter.and isn't nice to know he returned to his hunting the next week!!

unfortunately we can't say the same for the cat!

Monday November 2, 2009, 12:47 am
sad situation

Monday November 2, 2009, 12:52 am
I do not believe that story. These animals usually stay far away from humans. So, now its the way to say that it was self defense if you want to kill such an animal? This boy lies to cover his deed!

Monday November 2, 2009, 1:01 am
Why would a boy of his age shoot animals?

Monday November 2, 2009, 1:54 am
Pity the cat did not pounce and discourage this disgusting apology for a human being from killing God's creatures. Self defense is as specious a claim for taking this animal's life as the reasons put forward for Bush and Blairs illegal war in Iraq If they had not been stalking elk to kill them then the encounter could not have happened! This is presumably the downside of computor games with kill rates being the primary objective. Whether the boy was lying or not is irrelevant he was in persuit of blood and those that live by the sword or gun can hardly be surprised at the potential consequnces! May the soul of this cat rest in eterrnal peace through or Lord Jesus Christ, Amen!

Monday November 2, 2009, 5:32 am
"I do not believe that story. These animals usually stay far away from humans" Actually the US and Canada average around 6 mountain lion attacks on humans each year. Mountain lions are one of the few North American perdators that will actively hunt a human. California, which has a large lion population with no lion hunting season has had well documented cases of lion attacks over the last 20 years with some fatalities. One of the most famous being the April 1994 attack on jogger Barbara Schoener, who was not only killed by a relatively small cougar (80lbs) but also mostly consumed by the animal.
I used to hike and trout fish often in cougar territory in Wyoming and all the locals highly recommended carrying a firearm because of lions (which I always did). This kid appears to have done what he needed to protect himself.

Monday November 2, 2009, 5:49 am
Maybe the cougar had a larger rifle than the boy, then it is self defence. Shame, why want to hunt animals down in the first place.

Monday November 2, 2009, 8:23 am
Pity this parent was'nt teaching his son compassion,and respect for animals,instead of teaching him how to murder them. This poor unfortunate animal lost its life through no fault of its own,but because these AH's invaded its territory. People who disregard the right of other life on this planet make me sick. Find yourself something constructive to do with your spare time,and let the animals live in peace.
Thanks, Tom.

Monday November 2, 2009, 9:28 am
Thanks Tom. This is so very sad. There aren't many of these big cats left. Too bad this young man doesn't have some better "hobbies". I am not sure that I believe this tall tale either. Killing animals is murder in my eyes.

Monday November 2, 2009, 11:50 am

"Hunter Shoots Cougar in Self-Defense"

Let's look at that title more closely: HUNTER shoots couger in SELF-DEFENSE.

Really?

If that boy hadn't been out there trying to blow up elk, guess what? That cougar would still be alive and he wouldn't have gotten the bejeezus scared out of him!

"Self-defense?" I don't think so.

Secondly, most adults couldn't assemble themselves and aim a firearm to kill a predator like a large cat, and yet, SOMEHOW, this 14-year-old did? I find that hard to believe as well since reflexes and motor-skills are still developing at that age and he will never, ever, best a fully-grown man.

I think that someone poached this cougar, and in order to avert suspicion and prosecution, concocted this story to cover their misdeeds. In either case, NO ONE should be out there shooting and blowing up animals to begin with, people who do this are armed psychopaths who gain "entertainment" and "pleasure" in harming and killing other species. Wonder if that boy and his father thought about THAT!

Monday November 2, 2009, 12:56 pm
Rooibos Bird Your last comment contains the word "thought"! You are obviously be forgetful as to have thought about anything requires a brain and clearly some these missing links are not blessed with one! Must be something to do with Piltdown man! As to what part of the story may or may not be true, lying is obvously the least of this persons concerns as they voyage through life killing willy nilly. When I hear of the neccessity to hunt for food I am reminded of the Red Cross food parcels so greatfully received in the UK in WW2 from both the US and Canada, many children of the UK were brought up on "Uncle Sam's Dried eggs and the like! a I feel perhaps if life is so tough in the States we should be reciprocating those wartime food parcels from the UK to the US for all those starving US citizens who have to hunt! Just remind me how much a hunting rifle and all the kit that goes with it costs or does the government dish them out at the benefit office along with free ammo!

Monday November 2, 2009, 1:05 pm
"Secondly, most adults couldn't assemble themselves and aim a firearm to kill a predator like a large cat, and yet, SOMEHOW, this 14-year-old did? I find that hard to believe as well since reflexes and motor-skills are still developing at that age and he will never, ever, best a fully-grown man." Obviously you know nothing about shooting. I assure you my 14-year old can best many grown men shooting. Ever heard of Kim Rhode? She was a shooting champion at 13 and on the US Olympic shooting team at the ripe old age of 15.
"I think that someone poached this cougar, and in order to avert suspicion and prosecution, concocted this story to cover their misdeeds" Why? Mountain lions can be legally hunted in Montana. The season is open there now.
The animosity towards hunters here is quite frankly a mystery to me, and especially towards this young man whom you do not even know. This kid likely is an outstanding citizen. Why do I say that? Because his father was spending quality time with him in the perfectly legal and healthy activity of hunting. He was learning valuable lessons about life, nature, the environment, and in this case survival. What do you want to bet that NONE of the young thugs who recently raped the poor 15-year old girl from California or beat to death the young man from Chicago were hunters?
My own 3 children started hunting with me at the age of 12. All are model citizens, good students, and very involved in community service. Frankly I can think of no better way to teach children about respect for wildlife and the environment than spending time with them hunting, and also by learning about the history of environmental conservation much of which was initiated by hunters and hunting organizations.

Monday November 2, 2009, 1:30 pm
IMO if it comes down to being mauled to death a human comes first.

Monday November 2, 2009, 1:33 pm
Chris and Mark, I do know something about shooting, hence my comment. I also know a bit about law enforcement, too, so I'll thank you to keep your ad hominem insults to a minimum and discuss actual fact and reality, thank you very much.

As someone who was nearly shot because an 11-year-old let a rifle slip out of his hands while his uncle stood speaking with me (it landed on the ground and discharged), I take reports like this seriously, and with a discriminating eye. Were it not for the fact that more than one sheriff, park ranger, and game warden has commented on the fact that they also find it contrdictory that a person may not own a handgun until age 21 but children are allow to handle "rifles," as if these somehow aren't firearms, is more than a little dangerously hypocritical.

The attempt to confer goodness on a 14-year-old person who shoots animals in an attempt to seperate him from thugs who raped a 15-year-old girl doesn't work because the two situations aren't analogous, so what were you trying to prove, exactly? It's absurd to make such a comparison, because in all likelihood, I am willing to bet that one of more of the persons involved in that rape have access to and carry firearms of some import, whether legally or not. So again, what IS your point, exactly?

Finally, "hunters" are NOT "conservationists," and comparing them to perservationists is more than a little insulting. Why? Because hunters wish to keep stocked creatures they wish to kill and often only support regimes to further their access to "killable" animals. This is *hardly* conservation at all, and little more than thinly disguised self-interest. Conservation is in its truest sense isn't an exercise of preservation of that which is "useful" or "entraining" or "needed" by humans, but preserved merely because it is biologically evolved to exist, period. THAT is conservation.

You both would do well to think first and react later...or not at all...because you merely reinforce the fact that you're using apologist rhetoric, unsupported justification and outright attack because you have difficulting supporting you "point."

Monday November 2, 2009, 1:35 pm
For one a cougar will prey upon an animal it thinks it can take down...Where was the dad at that moment??? The cat would not have attacked of the father had been within eyesight of the cat...come on...I dont beleive this either...sorry seems a bit out of frame at the moment....I can shoot and pretty darn good at it but to be able to swing your rifle up and take site within seconds....tooo fishy you guys...

Big Gorilly Hugs

Monday November 2, 2009, 2:41 pm
Rooibos Bird how come I get tainted with the hunting fraternity? Perhaps you should read my post again! As to Mark's comments re younsters being able to shoot I'm sure that is possible and as to comments about not being able to shoot etc it might pay all concerned to check theirfacts before making assumptions about any individual! The hunting fraternity claim al sorts of nonsense to defend their "sport" often making specious links with conservation which of course would not be required if they were not killing everything that moved in the first placealong with much that does not move such as trees and mountains. The wolf is a good example of man removing and then reintroducing a species and using livestock kill as a justification for then reeradicating it and of course the same nonsensical arguments are used with many different species. UK hunters have for hundreds of years claimed conservation on private estates where they have been proven to breed species such as foxes to then hunt as they are considered vermin. Millions of birds for example are bred to be shot every year and one of the ecological disaters arising from this activity is the levels of pollution and predator imbalance caused in the areas where these birds are released.Those that hunt for subsistance may have a point if they are genuinely hungry but I'm sure Mark you will agree that hunting rifles and all the parphernalia that goes with hunting is not some thing that comes cheap and even things like shotgun cartridges are costly if they are consumed at the rate that some of the UK's bird hunters use them racking away with several guns and bearers in attendance. Mark you may not be aware but UK hunters don't like to get their hands dirty actually loading their guns and have a keeper and several dogs to collect the quarry. As to those that go on canned hunts for deer using hunting rifles, deer being the largest type of game animal in the UK as our other wildlife such as bears etc was hunted to extinction many years ago they are perhaps the nearest anyone gets in the UK to the sort of hunting you are talking about. However defending hunting as a way of life is sadly no better than condoning any other form of cruelty because however good a shot someone is they cannot guarantee a perfect hit anymore than say police officer can in a given situation and of course they have to have refresher range training as part of their job. My point being the potential for non clean kills is extremely great with amatuer marksmen however well their performance may appear aginst the clock in a competition with artificial targets. I therefore am not convinced of the lack of cruelty argument that has been suggested in some quarters. As to teaching your children respect for nature wildlife etc by killing it. I'm sorry but I don't get that particulary if the object of the killing is purely killing ie the thrill of the chase and the climax being death. To me this disparate connection has it's roots in some disturbing psychological problems having some obsession to kill. THose that simple want to bag a particular example so they can hack its head off and stick it on the wal of their lounge room really do belong in the psychiatrist witing room for an urgent appointment for therapy! However I am viewing that from the point of one who is a peaceful person generally and not from the perpective of either a caveman or the great white hunter the latter of course making no distinction between animals or native humans. Sadly there is always a tendency for the right wing politically to align itself with the hunting fraternity. Perhaps they gain some comfort from being armed with a multitude of weaponry! It would also apear to me that there is an element of the Wild West in present day America that should have been consigned to the history books along with aparthied and many other forms of discrimination. I do hope that has cleared up any misunderstndings about my stance on the subject and whilst I respect the viewpoint of those that hunt I make no claim to understand something which to me is obviously morally indefensible however legal it may be, civiisation is a long slow process which it is hoped will embrace both the US and UK in this respect at some time! Until that time Mark I shall have to agree to disagree with your stance as no doubt you will with mine!

Monday November 2, 2009, 4:10 pm
chris b: FYI, I am a South African living in the USA.

In the USA, "hunting" is rarely associated with sustinence as the !Kung San (Bushmen) would be doing, for example; it's "sport." And as such, it connotes entertainment at the injury and death of another being.

So convoluted is this issue that people tend to forget that very real fact. They are fed lies which are NOT based on science at all, such as "we have to control the population" and "we're doing them a favour" and so on when in fact, human INTERFERENCE has resulted in just the opposite: dwindling numbers of healthy animals, the strongest and most virile removed (as "trophies") leaving the weaker and smaller to reproduce, and the spreading of disease vectors.

In South Africa it has been documented that the killing of long-tusked elephants has, in only about 70 years, influenced natural selection and more and more elephants without tusks growing into adulthood have been observed.

Animals are not "overpopulated," they are experiencing crisis level habitat destruction and loss in the face of irresponsible human behavior (human overpopulation, logging, clearcutting, pollution, "development" and so on).

Moreoever, hunting as a *SPORT* is now being heavily advertised to women in the US as agencies who rely on selling off wildlife for the kill have seen their revenue derived in this way dwindle as fewer men participate in this behaviour. To keep the reveue coming in (and the blood flowing because it's literally selling off another species, let's be honest here), enterprising organizations are now attempting to flout the "wonders of hunting" to women hoping they will come flooding in to shoot and kill animals.

In any case, it's fortunate for the poacher crowd - and I think this young man and is family might be members - that the law enforcement authorities in the USA don't have the same powers as they do in RSA or else he'd have had Green Scorpion's bullet in his head for likely having committed a felony and being caught at it.

P.S. Can you send me some marmite in my parcel? Stuff is ungodly expensive over here!

Monday November 2, 2009, 6:20 pm
I don't know, whatever. Sad all around!
Tks Tom

Monday November 2, 2009, 7:55 pm
I see no reason whatsoever to doubt this story. It makes no difference if the boy was out for a hunt or taking a hike, he was confronted by an animal that he felt was threatening him and he had every right to defend himself. I would hate to have to do it, but if I had the means to defend myself from an animal threatening my life, I hope I would not hesitate to do so. What I find irresponsible is anyone implying that this young man and his father, engaged in a legal activity, might have poached the cougar.

Most hunting in the US is for means of sustenance, although there is a lot of predator hunting too, and some trophy hunting by more well-off hunters. I don't hunt, but I can understand the thrill of the hunt, of outwitting your prey, but I'll never be able to understand the need to kill an animal that one will never eat, and is not doing you any harm.

There are a few animals that have greatly prospered from human interference, white-tailed deer and turkeys come to mind, logging and clear-cutting have greatly benefitted browsers like elk, deer and moose, which would in turn benefit predators, were they not in competition with mankind for the same prey.

And personally, I don't care if hunters are not "pure" conservationists, as long as the results benefit wildlife and their habitat.

Monday November 2, 2009, 8:18 pm
Elk or caugar the same wrong.

Tuesday November 3, 2009, 4:56 pm

Donni M: You need to do some fact-checking before posting. Sustenance hunting is NOT the predominant reason for the activity in the USA, it's why the activity is being heavily promoted to women now.

There IS a reason to examine motives for conservation - it's called policy analyis and implementation.

Lastly, the article was questioned rightfully - if the minor hadn't been hunting, he wouldn't have encountered the cougar and the cougar would still be alive. Get it?