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President Bush Declares State of National Emergency - Martial Law Is Next Step

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: "NAZI""PEACE!", 9/11, americans, bush, bushadministration, cheney, cia, congress, constitution, corruption, cover-up, crime, democrats, dishonesty, elections, ethics, freedoms, gonzales, GoodNews, government, Govtfearmongering, healthcare, housing, i )

- 3972 days ago -
"...I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat..."

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One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 3:51 pm
It's time for the Army to Mutiny for Peace.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 3:52 pm
Pat Tillman is with you boys. He's a little upset about three shots to his forehead at close range.

Martin K (80)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:07 pm
Thanks One Love, I have been considering the plight of our nation and feel it is tiime for a citizen militia ,to end this fascist administration.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:11 pm
Martin. It is time for revolution.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:11 pm
A militia of Peace.

Barbara P (1069)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:13 pm
I do agree! There is no other way but for the American people to revolt!

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:13 pm
The first step is a National Strike beginning on Monday.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:14 pm
They can't arrest you for calling in sick.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:15 pm
Please get the word out on this. Congress is going on recess and the Bush plan has been laid.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:16 pm
Organize yourselves. There can be no centralized chain of command with a revolution.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:16 pm
Except of the One Mind, One Love

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:17 pm
A revolution cannot depend on One Leader or One Strategy, only One Consciousness.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:19 pm
This revolution will not be won with guns, it will be won by the Will of the American People. The same Ones that elected Congress, that does nothing for the people.

Jaclin S (230)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:19 pm
This is just the worse thing that can happen for your people and maybe for the rest of the world - who knows where and what this "maniac" and his administration will corrupt next????????
I send you my prayers, strength and courage to help you through these harrowing times - I know I am not the only one who is with you and has you all in their thoughts. Things like this affect the whole planet!!!
Love & Light

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 4:20 pm
The people must tighten their grip on their spending. Not go to work. Defeat them economically.

They must urge their sons and daughters, brothers and sisters that serve in the Armed Forces to lay down their arms and come home.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday August 3, 2007, 5:03 pm

Thanks, One!

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 5:16 pm
You are welcome. We are all watching out for each other.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 5:20 pm
With the current market conditions and credit crunch, a NATIONAL STRIKE could be just the thing to topple this fascist regime. (Fear Index ends second straight week at four week high)

Drastically cutting fuel consumption would be good for the planet and good for the revolution.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 5:22 pm
If you walk, rather than drive, your health will improve as well.

Take public transportation, carpool with kindred spirits, lots of things to do.

Barbara P (1069)
Friday August 3, 2007, 5:56 pm
If there is no revolution, there may not be "the next administration" the Bush / Cheney Regime is not just going to walk away and give up their power.
Americans need to bond together now and plan. Congress has shown they have no power over the Bush Regime, it is up to the American people to peacefully revolt all accross this nation and remove this administration from power!

Wake up America.... It is time for a REVOLUTION!

Elsa ED (231)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:00 pm
Don't Forget the Concentration Camps FEMA has waiting for folks like us. He will put them to good use too I bet.
Paid for by Tax dollars, for the imprisonment of innocent people. That comes with Martial Law.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:14 pm
Very good point Elsie.

Also it would be a good time to have at least a month's operating expenses on hand in cash, at least. With the Executive Order, the government can seize any of our bank accounts. I have everything out of the market and out of the banks, in cash and other forms of liquidty that the government can't touch.

Besides, the market is getting ready to tank. Wouldn't it be great if the little investor got out and the big guys got holding the bag for once. The DOW hit a peak of 14,000 and is dropping like a rock. The only thing propping up the economy is defense spending and healthcare. A revolution declares soverignity so if you're part of the revolution, you don't pay taxes, which by the way, are unenforceable.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:17 pm
If Americans start withdrawing cash from their bank accounts it will accelerate the liquidity cruch already underway. Sub-prime mortgage companies and Hedge funds are in deep trouble.

Jimmy Carter used economic sanctions, our revolution should too.

Rabbit R (85)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:19 pm

It's getting kind of scary out there. It may be good to talk about national strike but how would you organize that? Most people in my neighborhood would never go for it. They are to worried about paying rent and taking care of their kids, rightly so. I agree with the idea but I'm not sure how practical it is or how many would go along with it.

Carol W (119)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:38 pm

Looks like the old Gonzalizziee Pen has new ink.....God, talk about a mockery!

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:39 pm
Those people that can't afford not to work, should concentrate on cutting back their spending. This should be done if there is a revolution or not. If people cannot afford to take time off, they spend too much.

Not buying that deluxe latte, not renting movies but instead spending time at the park with their family. Canceling anything that is non-essential, cable, magazines, newspapers. The mass media has been co-conspirators in the war on the American people. Cancel your newspaper subscription if you can't afford to strike. Focus on the companies that have fueled the war for profits that are in conumer business. Get everyone you know to boycott FOX and its sponsers.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:41 pm
Everybody should be accumulating cash and not in a financial institution.

Don't buy or rent that video game, Cook an extra meal at home. There are many, many ways to protest a society that is designed to create toll bridges for everything we do.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:42 pm
The time is right for Revolution.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:46 pm
And if you don't think our military is getting fed up with BushCO., read this article:

A marine was just sentenced to 15 years for killing an Iraqi. I wonder how his fellow marines and family members feel about him basically doing his duty and a crazy war and now loosing 15 years of his life in prison.

How far do you think their loyalty will go when they watch this happen to their brothers in arms?

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:48 pm
They cut off the troops Internet because the soilders were telling their family members how crazy it really is over in Iraq. Pat Tillman was so fed up with the sham, he was going to be a spokesperson for the anti-war effort on discharge. That is why he was executed. Three shots to the forehead at close range, followed by a cover-up by the Army Brass.

Tim Redfern (581)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:49 pm
To anyone who doubts the validity of Elsie's post, go do this: Google "concentration camp locations in America". See how many hits you get, and then don't be too quick to mock and ridicule.
When the lid of total tyranny and the police state finally slams down for the last time, it will do so almost silently, just like this E.O. from Der Fuhrer. Every one of us here knows this s**t is coming, and we all need to get on our knees and thank God we DO know it's coming, because there are tens of millions of Americans who do not. My heart breaks for them, because the end will come with such a terrifying suddeness that I'd say suicides will go thru the roof. God save us all.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:50 pm
Congress is so married to their Big Business doners, Big Pharma, Defense, Financial Institutions, they will not do anything. It is up the people.

Glenda G (7)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:53 pm
I sometimes wonder if the Bushs didn't have an Iraqi in the woodshed.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 6:57 pm
The government is rigged. Wolf Britain has led some great articles about how the last two elections putting Bush in the White House were rigged. In Florida in 2000 and in Ohio in 2004. Do you really think BushCO has any intention of leaving the White House?

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Friday August 3, 2007, 7:09 pm
Thank you
Many more posted at these urls:

Marian E (152)
Friday August 3, 2007, 7:29 pm
The text on the comments is getting cut off again. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Carol W (119)
Friday August 3, 2007, 7:34 pm

SCHISSER! or something likethat.
......... Do you think that maybe Bush thinks, " We anti-Iraq and 9/11Truthers" have become a threat to the Congress he seems to own????
............That was what came to my mind, FIRST.
.....Careful how you say it...............

Marci Marcel S (326)
Friday August 3, 2007, 7:44 pm

Tim Redfern (581)
Friday August 3, 2007, 7:45 pm
Marian, yes, it makes me wonder and
it pisseth me off!

Candi Ausman (69)
Friday August 3, 2007, 7:54 pm
I'm not sure I understand....can someone translate all that legalese-type stuff in his address?

Ratty Ratman (160)
Friday August 3, 2007, 8:14 pm
Good Lord.

Things are going fast folks.

Here's a few great videos of Some of the spirit we all need,
please watch and click on the links and
This stuff everywhere.

Thanks peoples,



Contact your representatives:

Contact media:

Troops Resist:

March on Washington September 15th:

March on Washington September 29th:

Huge anti-war site list:,12809,884056,00.html


Cynthia H (155)
Friday August 3, 2007, 8:45 pm
Our Senators have further sold us out today - see -
Senate votes to expand eavesdropping power

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:00 pm
Hi Candi,

Basically, anybody who protests the war can be arrested and their assets seized. So thousands of people on care2 are now criminals according the BushCO. This new order further exands on previous executive orders that the country is in a State of National Emergency, meaning the President, at will, without the permission of Congress, can declare Martial Law, seize US citizens accounts, assets and property without any notice or evidence or trial.

He has essentially declared dictatorship powers that completely violate the Constitution.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:03 pm
Cynthia's story further expands the fact that the "democratically controlled" congress and senate are marching in step. Watch for details of the master plan.


One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:03 pm
Please continue to note and comment this thread to keep it in front of people. Our freedom is at stake here.

Past Member (0)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:09 pm
Interesting that he should use Lebanon as a reason to crack down on people at home.

I wonder what the Lebanese have to say ? What is their part in this ?

Tim Redfern (581)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:16 pm
The text is still being cut-off.
Hey, One Love~~someone deleted
your swastika....can't imagine why?!

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:19 pm
This is similar to a previous executive order regarding Iraq destablization. Syria and Iran are made to be the enemy when in fact they just want America out of Iraq. Iran, contrary to Western media reports is a very peaceful country compared to America. Don't get me wrong. Syria and Iran have some work to do regarding human rights, but for them, American agression combined with their intent to steal Iraqi oil resources is of great concern to these countries. With neohawk Lieberman wanting to bomb Iraq, and Israel using military muscle against the Palestinians and Lebonan, Syria and Iran are supplying arms to counter US and Israeli agression.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:23 pm
We are being censored. But we should be grateful to have this forum to express ourselves.

Maybe care2 is just trying to keep us out of the concentration camps.

Cynthia H (155)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:28 pm
You're right, of course, Tim! The swastika has disappeared - but we all knew that C2 (or rather,
Homeland Insecurity with the consent of C2) has been practicing censorship. Just as we all
know that this administration is marching in step with history as represented by Hitler and his
work in creating a fascist state. See this article: Fascist America in Ten Easy Steps at:,,2064157,00.html and at: This article has been posted on C2NN at least twice,
and made front page, but they have this comment probably will too!!

Past Member (0)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:39 pm
The last resubmission of fascist America in Ten Easy Steps is at this link >>> so far >>>

Past Member (0)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:40 pm
The End

"Right now, only a handful of patriots are trying to hold back the tide of tyranny for the rest of us -- staff at the Center for Constitutional Rights, who faced death threats for representing the detainees yet persisted all the way to the Supreme Court; activists at the American Civil Liberties Union; and prominent conservatives trying to roll back the corrosive new laws, under the banner of a new group called the American Freedom Agenda. This small, disparate collection of people needs everybody's help, including that of Europeans and others internationally who are willing to put pressure on the administration because they can see what a United States unrestrained by real democracy at home can mean for the rest of the world.

We need to look at history and face the "what ifs." For if we keep going down this road, the "end of America" could come for each of us in a different way, at a different moment; each of us might have a different moment when we feel forced to look back and think: That is how it was before, and this is the way it is now.

"The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive and judiciary, in the same hands … is the definition of tyranny," wrote James Madison. We still have the choice to stop going down this road; we can stand our ground and fight for our nation, and take up the banner the founders asked us to carry."

This is the turning of the tide and we all know that the reason to impose martial law can happen any day.
Everything is in place.

Our work is cut out for us.

How important is freedom to you ?

What are you willing to do for it ? "

Naomi Wolfe

Carol W (119)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:45 pm

OMG did somone revert time and space back to the Roman Era?

Anita H (142)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:55 pm
This sounds similar to something i read the other day

Barbara P (1069)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:57 pm

Americans for a revolution

Anita H (142)
Friday August 3, 2007, 9:57 pm
I don't think the American people would tolerate martial law !

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Friday August 3, 2007, 10:10 pm
I know the American people won't stand for it. Mst don't even know what's going on.

What is it about these words below, this part of the "Declaration of Independence", that just repeats over and over in my mind? The words are clear, and very meaningful. They are very informative and powerful.....and they were written for an exact reason....weren't they?

"— That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —"

Rabbit R (85)
Friday August 3, 2007, 10:14 pm

No offence One Love but I live in a low income community. Many people here working at minimum wage, some that are handicapped and some elderly. I'm all for not spending excessively but you do realize that some people are just living hand to mouth don't you? I don't see to many people buying latte around here. I see people counting change and hoping they have enough to get on the bus to work one more day for next to nothing and still be able to put food on the table for their kids. It's all well and good to just say put money in the back but there are some of us that can barely get to the end of the month for necessities. I hope you are aware of that when you make these suggestions that do seem a little insensitive.

One Love (130)
Friday August 3, 2007, 10:30 pm
Thank you for your comment Rabbit. These low income people are who many of us are here to protect and fight for. Sorry if it wasn't clear. Poverty is the biggest problem in the world and BushCO. fuels this problem by reckless wars and defense spending. It is a crying shame the poverty in the US and elsewhere in the world. One Love's passion is to be a force to eliminate poverty.

Anita H (142)
Friday August 3, 2007, 10:43 pm
It is hard to read these comments.
Maybe if we write in a shorter format will
be able to read these comments

Barbara P (1069)
Friday August 3, 2007, 10:53 pm
Wolfpeeps is right most Americans dont have a clue about what is really going on!
Many were brought up in a world where it was better to keep their heads burried in the sand.
They have the "It will never happen to us" syndrome... which is why this administration has been allowed to stay in power this long!

How many of you truly believe George Bush and Dick Cheney are just going to give up the reins willingly after the 2008 elections, if there are any elections?

Past Member (0)
Friday August 3, 2007, 11:09 pm
I don't want to get off topic, but I want you to know that I am using Firefox as my browser and I can read everyone's comments completely.

As an experiment it may be useful to download it. It is free and you may have a very different view than through Linux or Windows.

Unfortunately it dose not restore One's image. That has gone. At least this is front page, where it needs to be. Let's circulate this to everyone we know so that it stays there.


Laura H (129)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 1:02 am
We must call congress this morning!! They will be meeting for the last time in a month to vote on the energy bill today.
Tell them that they CANNOT go on vacation now.
They need to impeach NOW!!
See Rattys post for contacting them, and #3 in the impeach section is a share with a lot of phone numbers for representatives.
Please, everyone. Please.
We can't give up hope that our system will work. They are turning on their own. If it is as bad as some of us fear, our only hope now of avoiding full revolt is to act very quickly to impeach.

Ratty Ratman (160)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 1:39 am
Here's what Laura mentioned:

The first three are vids that I find very inspiring, the rest are resources we must use.



Contact your representatives:

Contact media:

Troops Resist:

March on Washington September 15th:

March on Washington September 29th:

Huge anti-war site list:,12809,884056,00.html

Ratty Ratman (160)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 1:41 am
We also need to do this:

William V. SAFARIK JR. (4)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 1:42 am
You can almost hear the SS marching down the road.. Time for the Militia to bear arms!!! It's not the British this time......It's the Bush / Cheney Regime.... No Heil to this group...

Jennifer Martino (137)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 2:26 am
And the day has come people. Revolt and spread the word as wide as we can!

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 2:43 am
William. This revolution will be won without Arms. But under the North American Union, your right to bear arms will evaporate along with many other rights:

MaryAnn B (80)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 4:45 am
Noted and thank you One Love-I feel as a Canadian so afraid
for what is in store and I pray that your revolution
of Peace throws Bush and company out of office once and for all!!

Cheryl B (375)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 5:22 am
the swastia was deleted by care2 because a group of people
complain, again, you must have figured that out my now, they don't
figure out or now or want to know, Bush;s links to Hitler, nor the Bildenbergs or his grandaddy, back
to prior the gaschambers and hellping provide alot of things, including the steel needed
and the gas, if I remember correctly He has US military on Canadian soil, 2nd tiime now
telling us what we can and can't do, harper was groomed by him and a bildernberger
since I ccan track back to 2003, apparently from the Strauss (sP) School of thought were
they are taught that people can't think for themselves. Probably a standard course for all bildenberger's

Firefox alot perfer it, others don't it can also make everything go
Now to the point, this man and cheney need be locked up and the
keys thrown away with food put under the door and your house and
senate are not doing their job that we all got so excited about just a
few months back. Harper has run over a few legislative laws himself
without a boo from anyone, in house of commons, or canadians.

Neil Young's main editor wrote a peice on Harper = mini-bush, may blog it later.

Yvonne is in Lebannon, and they have had and continue to trouble with
Syria, when she get's this it would be interesting to read her comments.

Cheryl B (375)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 5:25 am
Well Mary Ann better hope Harper doesn't get back in, he's a bushite, a miniotry government may be best here, but it overshot last time, we have pretty slim pickens with canadians heads in the sand, most of th em

Stephen Hannon (203)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 5:57 am
First a property block by disenters of the Iraq war and now another executive order to block property for anyone who interfers with Lebanon. What other country is next? Mexico comes to mind...

Stephen Hannon (203)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:05 am
Dave C
. Bush signed a law on July 17, 2007 making it illegal to protest the Iraq war or disssent in any manner. Certain people who own property such as can have their assests frozen, and their property seized under the new law. So all the protests that are being planned for September are in violation of federal law, and Bush can declare a state of emergency and declare martial law. The posse comitatus has already been suspeded. The posse comitatus prevents the military from acting as a police force. Now that it has been suspended the military will be the only recognized police force throught the Untied States. Every city and town, and hamlet will be effected. Bush will suspend the Judiciary, and Congress so they will not have any authority to counteract what Bush is doing. And there are people in the states who believe he is not like Hitler. He isn't Hitler for Hitler had a very high IQ while Bush has the IQ of a chimp. That about sums it up.

Cheryl B (375)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:58 am
here is Dennis Kunrich's take on it, he says Syria has been working with the French to help in Lebanon now"

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:06 am
One thinks the people of Mexico and Canada would be glad to join this revolution.

Stephen: Anybody here on Care2, or other progressive sites can have their assets seized for protesting the war.
And you've just insulted chimps.

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:12 am
Mary-Ann, this revolution of peace is for anybody that wants to join the fight against this globalization madness.

Critiques of the current wave of economic globalization typically look at both the damage to the planet, in terms of the perceived unsustainable harm done to the biosphere, as well as the perceived human costs, such as increased poverty, inequality, injustice and the erosion of traditional culture which, the critics contend, all occur as a result of the economic transformations related to globalization. They challenge directly the metrics, such as GDP, used to measure progress promulgated by institutions such as the World Bank, and look to other measures, such as the Happy Planet Index, created by the New Economics Foundation. They point to a "multitude of interconnected fatal consequences--social disintegration, a breakdown of democracy, more rapid and extensive deterioration of the environment, the spread of new diseases, increasing poverty and alienation"which they claim are the unintended but very real consequences of globalization.
The critics of globalization typically emphasize that globalization is a process that is mediated according to corporate interests, and typically raise the possibility of alternative global institutions and policies, which they believe address the moral claims of poor and working classes throughout the globe, as well as environmental concerns in a more equitable way.
The movement is very broad, including church groups, national liberation factions, peasant unionists, intellectuals, artists, protectionists, anarchists, those in support of relocalization and others. Some are reformist, (arguing for a more humane form of capitalism) while others are more revolutionary (arguing for what they believe is a more humane system than capitalism) and others are reactionary, believing globalization destroys national industry and jobs.
One of the key points made by critics of recent economic globalization is that income inequality, both between and within nations, is increasing as a result of these processes. one study from 2001 found that significantly, in 7 out of 8 metrics, income inequality has increased in the twenty years ending 2001. Also, "incomes in the lower deciles of world income distribution have probably fallen absolutely since the 1980s". Furthermore, the World Bank's figures on absolute poverty were challenged. In particular, some economists are skeptical of the World Bank's claim that the number of people living on less than $1 a day has held steady at 1.2 billion from 1987 to 1998, because of biased methodology.

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:14 am
You'll need Firefox or Safari to read these. Explorer is cutting off text.

Cheryl B (375)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:26 am
it'sNOT exlporer it is yet ANOTHER C2 GLITCH THEY DON'T FIX, AND ANOTHER UPGRADE TO THE WHOLE SITE IS COMING BEFORE THEY FIX ALL THE GLITCHES FROMTHE LAST , sorry yes I was yelling after just going through the news who wouldn't

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 8:06 am
Here's an easy way for people to join the REVOLUTION; BOYCOTT FOX SPONSORS:

Dusty K (1339)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 8:26 am
Thanks One for all the info and links! One voice....together.

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 8:32 am
Thanks Dusty. We are all ONE. Here's something that should bring hope to us all:

Dave Kane (308)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 8:32 am
Everyone should follow Bush's shining example -- Congress' too. Do as little work as possible for the whole month of August.

The Bush regime must go.

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 8:41 am
I'm sick of this crap. . .I want to go back to the desert and the mountains. . .but I can't decide which. . .

Carolyn T (234)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 8:51 am
Well, we continue down the Yellow Brick Road...just as predicted and right on the timetable. Congress must not adjourn and they must do their work as rapidly as possible. We can't get back to "Kansas" right now, friends. And the "Wonderful Wizard" has been exposed.

I think the suggestion to keep some money tucked away safely is a good one.

Heads up and seat belts's going to be a rough ride from here on out. And we're about to accelerate rapidly. The stock market, already diving, is in danger of collapsing. Housing industry on a fast slide as I write. Where is John Wayne when we really need him? We're being "BUSHwhacked" from all sides!

GOD bless the UNITED states of America. AMEN!

Carol W (119)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 8:56 am

Vacations should be earned. These are the only Americans that refuse to loose their party time.
How many of us (all) have been asked or required to work overtime or extra to complete a project.
The rules, salaries, perks, raises, and pensions, etc....this Govt. gives its self, would bea good place to begin change. Help focus on real human issues, like the rest of us paying for their privileges & perks.

Carol W (119)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 9:51 am

Thanks Sunshine for bringing this to attention;

WASHINGTON - AUGUST 3 - Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
called the Administration’s latest Middle East policy reckless and dangerous and said it would further hurt the United States’ standing in the region and the world.

Yesterday, President Bush issued an Executive Order, announcing the United States faced an ‘Unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy’ and will freeze the property and interests of people deemed by the Administration to be undermining Lebanon’s democratic government.

“The French are working in Lebanon to try to construct a national unity government. Syria is on record as supporting the French initiative.

The Bush Administration is trying to block National Unity and continue with its strategy to destabilize the region by targeting Syria and Iran, instead of seeking diplomatic resolution. The Administration is using the same rhetoric and political posturing that led to the unjustified war against Iraq.

Our nation cannot afford this dangerous and aggressive foreign policy. The Administration’s posturing is putting the United States on a path of escalation with both Syria and Iran,” Kucinich said.

“If the Administration continues these policies which undermine the sovereignty of Syria and Lebanon, the United States risks more violence in the Middle East, further isolation from the international community, and the continued sacrifice of our pressing domestic needs. Instead of seeking to generate more turmoil, President Bush needs to commit U.S. diplomats to multiparty negotiations in the Middle East with no preconditions to achieve lasting peace in the region.”

Congressman Kucinich and his wife, Elizabeth, visited Lebanon last summer in the wake of Israel’s bombing of South Lebanon. Their mission included traveling around the war-torn country where they met with government leaders and citizens in Lebanon, Syria, Israel and Palestine in the hopes of generating support for peace.

OK with commonsense like this he may get my vote ( if it will count ) ?

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 10:19 am
Here's a good way to revolt:

Inside the antiwar movement's effort to embarrass the GOP into changing its position on Iraq

Cal W (37)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 12:32 pm
Gandi defeated
the British by
sitting on his
ass and
doing nothing,
we can do
the same !!
Sincerely, Cal...

Bradley Harris (155)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 1:47 pm
One word we impeachment. Congress needs to get a backbone before its too late.
Peace and grace

Elle J (276)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 1:54 pm
Noted! Good Grief, what next? Is there no limit to what this administration can do? Maybe it is time for the people to take a good look at what is governing up. I mean all people and a real good look! Could there be another American Revolutionary War on the horizon? American people vs Corrupt American Government!

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 2:55 pm
One thinks the REVOLUTION has already started. care2 is overflowing with the Jefferson's and Madison's of the 21st Century.

Kari D (192)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 2:56 pm
I'm not so sure sittin on our asses will do much good now,,
Look what BushCo has done so far..........
We need to IPEACH Him NOW!!!

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 3:40 pm
I might be detained just because I reda the article, and may be deemed a threat now, since I know about the order. If you dont see me online next week, please someone make a petition to get me out of the Feds custody!!

I am sure, all that read the article are being now watched the NSA spy tactics!!

I did get a Kroger grocery card without filling out my name so at least they wont know what i am eating for dinner!!

I hope that doesn't Violate the order!! get me thown in jail!!


Doris N (245)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 4:35 pm
This very urgent news and discussion is related to the news and discussion in this one, on denial and how to handle it:,
please read it, too, and the discussion their, to connect the dots - the more people that snap out of the illusion that a government always is there to take care of you, the better... I'd add to One's suggestion above to take care of you and yours (which is important for survival), to be prepared to take care of each other, too, especially in neighbourhoods where there is much need - it is hard to forbid neighbourliness, isn't it? And your local associations and parishes and the like may be the right channel, it hasn't have to be outspokenly political, just fair and loving, and it will eradicate fear and hopelessness.
I also think everyone who thinks that Kucinich, or any other good but "chanceless" candidate stands for the right opinions and options, should take their own views seriously - what if all the people, who think Kucinich and kindred spirits are right, would also act according to their belief, then USA might get the best president ever...

Blair Miller (246)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 4:52 pm Go watch this movie and you will be shocked. What will it take for this country and its people to do something. Send this to Elizabitch on the View. Little miss Republican. Maybe this will open her ignorant eyes.

Ali Hirst (286)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 5:13 pm
OMG I feel for all of you in the US. Thank goodness I am in Australia

Linda D (41)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 5:59 pm
Did anyone actually read the executive order? What are you objecting to?

Ali Hirst (286)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:10 pm
BB Blue Bunting has disappeared...No viewable ID...very strange anyone seen her.???

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:14 pm
I cant believe this is happening.

Janet Pearson (8)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:29 pm
Linda D is right. Hasn't anyone here bothered to read the Executive Order linked to this article? It refers to Syrian citizens who may be in the United States or have property in the United States and who are planning on influencing or interfering with the soverign nation of Lebanon. Syria used to "own" Lebanon, or at least tried hard to, and still operates behind the scene to try to control the Lebanese government. If I understand the legalese words properly, Bush is stating the United States does not favor Syria messing with Lebanon and will take action to stop any Syrian in this country who is involved in such actions. It has nothing to do with the rest of us here. Calm down, everyone. LIke the message on the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy states: DON'T PANIC.

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:29 pm

I just did an experiment, and sure enough it worked!: Highlight all of the comments you want to read, "Control 'C(opy)'' them into your Windows Clipboard, and "Control 'V' (Paste)" them into a text editor such as WordPad or NotePad (built into Windows); and, wella, ALL of the text shows up and you can read every word! Cool, eh?!

On-topic, the BushCONS are building the "legal" framework of so-called "laws", most if not all of them unConstitutional and/or otherwise illegal, to "legalize" martial law and the suspension of the Bill of Rights. They have basicly already done it; and, as many people have said, all it's going to take is another "9-11", which doesn't necessarilly have to be in the U.S., but could be a "strategically-placed" mini-nuke or dirty bomb supposedly detonated by "al Q'aeda" (actually al-CIA-duh), or any other major kind of "provocation", for the U.S. to declare a national and international emergency. It's probably just a matter of time until it happens.


Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:39 pm

Did you get that okay? Here's the instructions again in case you didn't:

1.) Highlight all of the text of comments you want to read;

2.) "Control 'C'(opy)" it into your Windows Clipboard;

3.) "Control 'V' (Paste) it into a text editor like WordPad or NotePad
(built into Windows); and

4.) You can now read and of the comments because all of the words
will now show up! Isn't that cool?!

As they say in Helen's neck of the woods (world), "Cheers, Big Ears....!"

And here's the other part of my comment in "compressed" format as well:

On-topic, the BushCONS are building the "legal" framework of so-called "laws",
most if not all of them unConstitutional and/or otherwise illegal, to "legalize"
martial law and the suspension of the Bill of Rights. They have basicly already
done it; and, as many people have said, all it's going to take is another "9-11",
which doesn't necessarilly have to be in the U.S., but could be a "strategically-
placed" mini-nuke or dirty bomb supposedly detonated by "al Q'aeda" (actually
al-CIA-duh), or any other major kind of "provocation", for the U.S. to declare a
national and international emergency. It's probably just a matter of time until it


Cynthia H (155)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:44 pm
Also, if you check the "Track Comments" box below (just above the cancel & submit
buttons), then you'll get a message each time someone posts a comment - and the
comments appear in full in those messages...

Barry Seth (118)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 6:53 pm
Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention, One. When will this nightmare end?

Cory-Anne S (6)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:09 pm
Linda and Janet,
what everyone is objecting to is an order that Bush signed back at the end of June,
beginning of July that stated that in the event of a national emergency,
Bush would assume control of all branches of government,
thus turning our democracy into a dictatorship and our 'president' into a dictator.

I knew it would only be a matter of time before Bush declared a national emergency.
Though to be quite honest,
I'm rather surprised that he called it over Lebanon.
I thought for sure that it would be over I-35W in Minneapolis,
since Homeland Security was so quick to announce that the bridge didn't appear to go down by terrorists...

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:41 pm
Linda D.

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, …I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.
(i) any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State:
(A) to have taken, or to pose a significant risk of taking, actions, including acts of violence, that have the purpose or effect of undermining Lebanon's democratic processes or institutions, contributing to the breakdown of the rule of law in Lebanon, supporting the reassertion of Syrian control or otherwise contributing to Syrian interference in Lebanon, or infringing upon or undermining Lebanese sovereignty;
-- No statement of evidence, just determination by “the gut” of the Secretary of Treasury or Secretary of State.

the term "United States person" means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.

--Any of us at care2

(C) to be a spouse or dependent child of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or

--Any of our children or spouses.

Sec. 4. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that, because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render these measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that, for these measures to be effective in addressing the national emergency declared in this order, there need be no prior notice of a listing or determination made pursuant to section 1 of this order.

Based on “the gut”, they need no due process of law to seize assets and accounts.

One Love has contributed to destabilization of Iraq by pointing out that the Iraqi Oil Distribution Law puts 80% of the people’s oil in Foreign oil interest’s hands and has strongly urged the Parliament to reject this proposition. So BushCo. can try and freeze One’s assets.

Combined with the previous executive order, allowing the government to arrest and seize property of anti-war protesters this is a direct violation of the 5th Amendment of the Constitution.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

And a violation of the 1st amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:43 pm
Furthermore, it is a direct violation of the 4th amendment of the constitution:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:44 pm
But "It's just a goddamn piece of paper"

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:50 pm
I'm definitely down w/revolution! The trouble is that we have to educate and organize the folks who get diverted off on irrelevancies like Terry Schiavo/gay marriage, who want to believe that we can have Santa Claus for president, and who just cannot be bothered to vote, let alone vote rationally. It is scary and depressing. BushCo knows full well what it's doing, and what it can get away with. It's the old Roman "Bread and Circuses" approach; give the people enough bread to placate them and provide enough cheap entertainment to keep their minds off of being screwed.

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 7:57 pm
And I think that being so angry about "illegal aliens" just plays into the hands of the pigs in power. This keeps us all fighting each other for a piece of the pie, instead of uniting to enforce union/worker rights, safety standards and all of the good things that each Earthling needs.

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 8:35 pm
As we go about our daily lives, our shopping our escapist, movie watching & even our protesting & political organizing we need to be aware there a real risk that it could all blow up & that we could find ourselves facing uniformed troops at our doors. I said a long time ago about a national strike. Bush & his clowns are doing what they want.& no one seems to be able to stop him . get ready our young people are not coming home. this is Bush trick to keep this war hot . this war was not our fight in the first place. Bush will not be satisfied until he is in control of every oil well in that country Bush has everyone death warrant written out . our economy is so bad right now .the people of the U.S.A. are being control by the dollar Bush & the feds know we can't do nothing with out it. national strike every person has to do it. with out the work of the people no money is made for the billionaires .the tycoon who runs shell oil made a statement the oil companies are to huge to to try to hurt. he said the only way you hurt them & send a message to Bush is find other means of transportation that dose not call for gas .Bush is dictating to all americans on how we should live .every one protest about this war. that the men need to come home its a lost battle over there. when i heard our men are coming home by year 208 i said he will find a way to keep them there. we are going to have a civil war next if they don't turn this greedy nation around.& keep their sniffers out of other county's affaires. & worry about how your lawns are kept first. noted , great news.

Linda D (41)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 9:19 pm
I think some people are overreacting to this executive order. Janet P. clearly explained the reason for the order. Lebanon must be left alone and not undermined by Syrians or anyone else. It would be nice if it was in easy to understand English, but lawyers insist on complicated terminology. I interpret it to mean that no donations, goods or services can be made by any person in the United States or they will have their rights to their property blocked. It didn't use the word confiscate, as what happens where drug dealing is concerned. There is no "gut" judgment. Excerpt: "(i) any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State" I think that means there is a paper trail of financial exchanges that is looked at and a determination made. In other words, where is the money going and who is it supporting? Is property put in the name of a spouse or child to circumvent the law? It's not based on gut or hearsay. On the constitutional issue, I think it is well explained why there can't be notification and lengthy legal process for people who are in fact engaged in illegal activity supporting violence and destabilization of a foreign country like Lebanon. A Syrian might argue that it is their right to support financially whoever they wish. I agree to the extent that they don't do it while living in the United States, or living else where with property or assets kept in the United States. Excerpt: "Sec. 4. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that, because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render these measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that, for these measures to be effective in addressing the national emergency declared in this order, there need be no prior notice of a listing or determination made pursuant to section 1 of this order." Does anyone here really want people to use property in the United States to be converted and transferred for the benefit of terrorists? I think that falls under aiding and comforting the enemy.

I don't think there is a master plan for martial law. War would have to break out here first. Any country institutes martial law to preserve the peace when the police department and related law enforcement cannot contain the lawlessness and violence. Any place where there has been a major disaster sees the veneer of civility disappear, and it's everyone for themself just to survive. Take away food, water, heat, shelter, medicine, gas for the car, and the basics in life, and the world becomes a scary and dangerous place with people looking for someone to protect them.

The right to protest and have your say, as long as the purpose is not to incite a riot, is a constitutional right, and any executive order branding such a person a criminal with loss of property rights violates the constitution. If a person protests and also financially supports Al Qaeda or any terrorist groups, especially in a country with which we are war, then I think they have committed a criminal act to the detriment of the United States, and they had to know there would be consequences. I also want to add that there was a recent article about how young Saudi Arabians are being used by Al Qaeda and sent to Syria for indoctrination into becoming suicide bombers in Iraq, not soldiers for jihad. I don't want any money going to these terrorists. Do you?

One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 9:35 pm
The president has issued executive orders outlawing protests and threatened to seize properties for destabilizing the situation in Iraq and Syria. The president has no constitutional right to outlaw protests and has no right to seize property in the fashion described in the executive orders. Read the constitution Linda.

The order specifically says that they don't need any proof, and what we no from our Homeland Security Czar is they operate from their gut, not the law.

Furhtermore this president attacked its own citizens on 9/11, violated International Law, Geneva conventions, illegal wiretaps, rigged two elections 2000 Florida and 2004 Ohio. The administration is filled with criminals. The Plume affair, Scooter Libby. Dick Cheney, No-bid contracts for Halliburton. Enough is enough.

So we're starting a revolution. You're welcome to join if you like. If you're not concerned, have fun watching from the sidelines.

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 9:36 pm

Say, I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but I just thought of it and tried it, and it also works: You can temporarilly paste the comment(s) in the Comment Compose box to read them too, and you can see the whole comment(s). Cool!

Good comments almost everyone! There's always some "anti-alarmists" to claim we're "panicking" and/or supposedly getting carried away with concerns about things we most-definitely are NOT getting carried away or panicking about!

These are extremely dire times we're living in right now; and many people on C2 and elsewhere face it, but many here and all over the place still refuse to face it. You can quote the new "laws" right to their faces; and, if they read them at all, they'll read them and talk themselves out of it applying the way it can and probably will very soon. That's how dumbed-down a populace we are!

But this latest, instant "law" I think they're using as a pretext for attacking Syria, and/or Iran, not to mention perhaps to allow the Israeli government to attack Lebanon itself again! These "death-cult" people are itching for more mass-bloodshed. They literally revel in it, and they will not be satisfied until blood is everywhere!

As I said in one of "my own" submission's threads, "....Welcome to Dante's Inferno in real life, or what will very soon come very close to passing for it!"


One Love (130)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 9:37 pm
The biggest terrorist that threaten this country are the ones in the White House.

Ali Hirst (286)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 9:39 pm

There are a few on UTube which explain it. This one is scary. I pray for all of you in the US that Bush is gone and fast!!!!

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 9:58 pm

Linda D. and Janet P., you are in EXTREMELY deep avoidance and denial. WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!! It is people like you who "talk away the truth" who help the cause of these evil, treasonous traitors and perpetrators of mass unConstitutionality and illegality, and thereby you are complicit in it. Rhetorically speaking, what part of the fact that it's our DUTY to tell the truth about such things, as "One" is doing here, and to stand up against it, do you not understand?! Geez, don't you get it that when you and people like say "calm down" in the face of "hell", you are aiding the true enemy(ies) and terrorists, "our" psychopathic (mis-)leaders?!

And, Cal, Gandhi did NOT just sit on his butt! He marched for many miles, he met with British "leaders", he spent a lot of time in courts and in jails, he wrote lots and lots of messages to everyone involved, and to those "surrounding" the movement, he spoke quite often with people in the movement to encourage them, and to reporters and supporters, etc.! WE CANNOT JUST SIT ON OUR BUTTS AND DO NOTHING!!!!! THE U.S. AND THE WORLD ARE ON AN EXPRESS TRAIN TO HELL, DAMN IT; AND WE'VE GOT TO STAND UP AND NON-VIOLENTLY FIGHT TO SAVE THEM!!!!! YOU TOO WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!!

To all of you "fence-sitters" and/or detracters from the the truth of what's really going on, and just how EXTREMELY serious it IS, as Henry David Thoreau said to Ralph Waldo Emerson when the latter came to visit Thoreau in jail for civil disobedience, where Gandi got some if not a lot of ideas for same from, "Why aren't you here, Waldo?!" Why aren't you getting off your butts, growing spines, becoming True American Patriots, and standing up and being Truly Courageous people who are busy seeking to save their country and world?! If you don't wake up and do so, you are cowards and traitors to the U.S. and the entire world!!



Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 10:11 pm
You are going to hate me for saying this. But I have to.
Americans feel - even if unconsciously - feel ENTITLED.
ENTITLED, like spoiled brats, to EVERYTHING THEY WANT.
Able up till now, to get all the CONSUMER GOODS, relatively
cheaply, they want, produced all over the world.
Now, you guys want a REVOLUTION.
You think that WANTING IT, MAKES IT SO.
Again, maybe unconsciously, you'all feel ENTITLED to one.
Having NO IDEA of the HARD WORK that a Revolution takes.
Any more than of the HARD WORK somebody ELSE did,
to produce your CONSUMER GOODS.
Read some History books, about REAL Revolutions.
Like the Cuban Revolution, or the Russian Revolution,
or the Bolivaran Revolution in Latin America.
It is GOOD that people have woken up to the NEED
for Revolution. That is GOOD.
Thomas Jefferson was, from landing on the Moon. FARTHER.
At least Jefferson knew where he was in relation to the Moon.
YOU haven't a CLUE where to begin.
But, you think there "will be" a Revolution --
just because there OUGHT TO be one.
Uh-uh. Reality doesn't WORK that way.
{This "entitlement" nonsense is also poisoning
PSYCHOLOGY and RELIGION, among Americans.}
You haven't WORKED for a Revolution; you ain't
gonna GET a Revolution.
The ONLY Americans with the slightest shred of
DISCIPLINE in their lives, are the Army
and the Police.
They are the only ones CAPABLE. And hard-
working, I may add. In their professions, such
as they are.
Right NOW, in case you haven't noticed, THEY ARE
And all you ENTITLED KIDS, who think "they jus'
WOULDN'T fire on li'l ol' MEEEEE..........."
I won't even answer that one.
Okay, now I'm not Miz Popularity here.

About a year ago, there was lots of talk on the Internet, about
there being another "false flag" incident like 9/11: and I think there
WOULD have been, except that possibly bloggers EXPOSED it.
It would have been, to have {the U.S. Army, of COURSE}, explode
while it is MAINLAND USA, it is still at a distance, not too many people
live there, the FALLOUT would go mainly to CANADA, and, best of ALL,
didn't allow to survive}.
If there IS an "incident" in VALDEZ, ALASKA; REMEMBER, you READ IT HERE FIRST.
VALDEZ, ALASKA, was mentioned in some right-wingnut's book as a
possible site for "terrorist attack"; among CITIES MANY TIMES ITS SIZE.
In other words, like in "The Purloined Letter", HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT.
{The other cities were meant to DISTRACT you; as well as scare the
heebie-jeebies out of the people living there. Mostly REPUBLICANS.}
VALDEZ, ALASKA. Remember the name. If I lived there, I would worry.

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 10:12 pm

Helen is being courageous clear down in "Down-Under", Australia! The Australian government murdered the real "Crocodile Dundee" for standing up for freedom and truth, so she lives in a "NeoCON", or "Neo-Nazi", country too where it is downright dangerous to do nothing but stand up for the truth. But I think she knows, as many of us here know, that WE'VE GOT TO DO IT!!!!! It is no exaggeration WHATSOEVER that ALL of our lives, the lives of ALL of our loved ones and friends, and the lives of our fellow-citizens worldwide depend on our standing up against this corporate-neo-communist-theocratic-fascist regime taking over the world!!!!!

Are you "dumb-buttesses" out there going to just sit back and let those of us who are courageous be carted away and "disappeared" for doing nothing but, for instance, doing what we're doing right here, exercising our Constitutional, First Amendment (and Bill of Rights, Article One) rights AND DUTIES (spelled out there and in the Declaration of Independence) to speak out against the extreme treasons being now carried out by our "leaders"? Yah, you probably will; and you'll probably actually be convinced that the True Patriots were supposedly the ones who were being "traitors". Man, are you people "washed-of-brains"! WAKE UP!!!!!


Linda D (41)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 10:13 pm
Wolf, you are sounding like a really angry wolfie, snarling and flashing your teeth. If there was a tall fence, I would be on the other side making sure the gate was locked, not sitting on the fence where you could reach me. You have a right to your opinion, but you sound so angry it's alarming. Disagreeing with you does not make the other person a traitor or a coward, and name calling is a last resort, don't you think? It takes a lot of courage to write here and duck from the flack hurled in my direction.

I'll play along and say what if Wolf is right and we're on an express train to obliteration. Well, the train is moving too fast to get off, and even if you could get off, where would you choose to be? What can you really do and stay within the law? You can write and speak. That's about it. And you can pray, and while prayer can be powerful, prayers are not always answered in the way we want.

I say take a few deep breaths, be grateful for each day you live, smell the flowers, drink in the beauty of nature, love your family and pets, and stop focusing on conspiracy theories and upsetting yourself. Change what you can, but accept that which cannot be changed. Focus on the positive!

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 10:37 pm
If you are sending money back to your family say in Lebanon,
and they ARBITRARILY decide your grandpa or your second cousin
belong to a "terrorist" organization, they can SEIZE ALL YOUR ASSETS
Yes, THEY CAN DO THAT. And believe it, THEY WILL!!!!!!!!!
Based absolutely on PAST EXPERIENCE!!!!!!!

No money for lawyers, legal fees, or even EXISTENCE.

This is how it DOES WORK OUT. Then, YEARS later, if EVER,
they can say they "made a mistake"; An organization your second cousin belonged to,
has a similar name in Arabic to a "terrorist organization", but is not the same;
or your cousin has the same name as a "terrorist", but a mistaken identification was made; etc. etc. etc. GOOD LUCK IN GETTING ANY PROPERTY BACK;

This DOES happen. In Seattle, a SOMALI GROCERY that served an entire neighborhood,
FRESH FRUITS AND VEGGIES, ETC., before the Federal Govt finally admitted it had
made a "mistake" and THE GROCERY

"Sorry, guys, our mistake", was ALL THEY GOT from the Feds. Tho I think they SUED
and maybe finally got something. Under this new Law of Bushco, they wouldn't even
be able to do that. I think the neighborhood RAISED MONEY FOR THEM so they could
re-start their DESTROYED Mom-and-Pop business.


These laws are directly aimed at THEM; and
NOT at any "terrorists"; which they won't affect AT ALL.

IRAQ {from another group I posted it in}
"This order allows the government to seize assets and bank accounts
of those who are committing violence in Iraq,
and those in this country who send them money or supplies."
{Other than Halliburton and the Pentagon!}

I am hammering this into the ground, I know.


[Bank accounts are pretty well supervised;
unless your name happens to be "Bin Laden" and you're a friend of the Bushies!]



This law, instead, is directly aimed at foreign nationals
who may be sending money to families, children, aged parents, etc.,
abroad; and, yes, to Peace Movement people,
who are "slowing down and obstructing"
the glorious movement towards Democracy and oil confiscation in Iraq.

that may be trying to send "supplies" such as
There was a group in Seattle that helped do that.


Maria Magdalena (294)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 10:45 pm
Oh, my stars, I'm taking my money out of my CD account on Monday prematurely.... & I'm not working for anyone but myself from now on... no gas needed working from home. I'm praying for everyone but know there are more beings in this universe that want peace on planet earth & they are standing by to step in & help. God Bless you all.

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Saturday August 4, 2007, 11:15 pm

Executive Order: Blocking Property of Persons Undermining the Sovereignty of Lebanon or Its Democratic Processes and Institutions
Message to the Congress of the United States

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)(IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)(NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, determine that the actions of certain persons to undermine Lebanon's legitimate and democratically elected government or democratic institutions, to contribute to the deliberate breakdown in the rule of law in Lebanon, including through politically motivated violence and intimidation, to reassert Syrian control or contribute to Syrian interference in Lebanon, or to infringe upon or undermine Lebanese sovereignty contribute to political and economic instability in that country and the region and constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

I hereby order:

Section 1. (a) Except to the extent provided in section 203(b)(1), (3), and (4) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(1), (3), and (4)), or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted prior to the date of this order, all property and interests in property that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of any United States person, including any overseas branch, of the following persons are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported, withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in:

(i) any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State:

(A) to have taken, or to pose a significant risk of taking, actions, including acts of violence, that have the purpose or effect of undermining Lebanon's democratic processes or institutions, contributing to the breakdown of the rule of law in Lebanon, supporting the reassertion of Syrian control or otherwise contributing to Syrian interference in Lebanon, or infringing upon or undermining Lebanese sovereignty;

(B) to have materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, or technological support for, or goods or services in support of, such actions, including acts of violence, or any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order;

(C) to be a spouse or dependent child of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or

(D) to be owned or controlled by, or acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order.

(b) I hereby determine that the making of donations of the type of articles specified in section 203(b)(2) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(2)) by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to paragraph (a) of this section would seriously impair my ability to deal with the national emergency declared in this order, and I hereby prohibit such donations as provided by paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) The prohibitions in paragraph (a) of this section include but are not limited to (i) the making of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order, and (ii) the receipt of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services from any such person.

Sec. 2. (a) Any transaction by a United States person or within the United States that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, or attempts to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.

(b) Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.

Sec. 3. For the purposes of this order:

(a) the term "person" means an individual or entity;

(b) the term "entity" means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization; and

(c) the term "United States person" means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.

Sec. 4. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that, because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render these measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that, for these measures to be effective in addressing the national emergency declared in this order, there need be no prior notice of a listing or determination made pursuant to section 1 of this order.

Sec. 5. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, is hereby authorized to take such actions, including the promulgation of rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to the President by IEEPA, as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this order. The Secretary of the Treasury may redelegate any of these functions to other officers and agencies of the United States Government, consistent with applicable law. All agencies of the United States Government are hereby directed to take all appropriate measures within their authority to carry out the provisions of this order and, where appropriate, to advise the Secretary of the Treasury in a timely manner of the measures taken. The Secretary of the Treasury shall ensure compliance with those provisions of section 401 of the NEA (50 U.S.C. 1641) applicable to the Department of the Treasury in relation to this order.

Sec. 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, after consultation with the Secretary of State, is hereby authorized to submit the recurring and final reports to the Congress on the national emergency declared in this order, consistent with section 401(c) of the NEA (50 U.S.C. 1641(c)) and section 204(c) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1703(c)).

Sec. 7. This order is not intended to create, nor does it create, any right, benefit, or privilege, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, instrumentalities, or entities, its officers or employees, or any other person.

August 1, 2007.

Few Americans KNOW or CARE anything about Lebanon-Syrian relationships.
This order means, if you happen to be ON THE WRONG SIDE FROM BUSHCO, on the
issue of Lebanon-Syrian relationships {whatever the "rights" or "wrongs" of the case
are, I am not judging}; then you are in DEEP TROUBLE.
If you are for armed conflict that Bushco disapproves of, you are a "terrorist" and
can have your assets confiscated.
If you are AGAINST armed conflict that Bushco APPROVES of, as in Iraq, then you
are a "terrorist" and can have your assets confiscated.
In other words, ALWAYS AGREE WITH BUSHCO or you are a "terrorist" and can have
your assets confiscated.
You just might wake up one fine morning and find out that, overnight, while you slept,
Bushco has turned you into a "terrorist".
Or rather, quote,
"determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State".
No trial, no "innocent until proven guilty", no nuthin'.
If Condi doesn't like you, yer out of luck, pal!

"By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)(IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)(NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, "


The outcry going on NOW, should have happened THE FIRST TIME THE ELECTION WAS
STOLEN, IN 2000!!! THAT would have made a real difference, THEN!
But that's water over the dam, isn't it?

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 12:20 am

Very good points, BMutiny! ....And what about the Iraqi living in England, who was HELPING MI5, the Brits version of the FBI, but wouldn't become a British citizen, though much of the rest of his family did become British citizens, because he wanted to retain his Iraqi citizenship so he could go back to Iraq eventually and reclaim his family's property there; but, because he didn't have a British Passport, and even though MI5 PROMISSED they would help him if he got into trouble, was taken into custody by the CIA and U.S. military, spent some time in prison in Afghanistan, then spent four long, literally torturous years in Guantanamo, and was VERY blessed to ever get out of there alive, only having gotten out relatively recently!?!?

What people like Linda don't get, is that with these new unConstitutional "laws", this can happen to ANY of us! Even to the Lindas' of this world who aren't even standing up against these extremely egregious violations of True American Freedom(s), by some neighbor of theirs falsely claiming they aid terrorists(ism)! Of course, they think we're exaggerating, and/or not thinking positively, but we couldn't be any less exaggerating then we are! I would ask what it's going to take to wake people up like this, but I already know that it very unlikely that they ever will be awakened! They will sell themselves out and take as many others' with them as they can! Because they are controlled by evil and think they are controlled by "positiveness"!


Ali Hirst (286)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 12:39 am
Wolf ...I do not live in a "NeoCON", or "Neo-Nazi", Country here in Australia. We are free to speak our opinions here, We are free to move wherever we want. We are free to have live, laugh, love, enjoy life without our matter who is in power, interfering in our way of life. As long as we don't commit any crimes here we are free in Australia. Our Governents here are either Liberal/National coalistion or Labor..with Independent members in the house. I don't call that a "NeoCON", or "Neo-Nazi", Country. It has been realised for a long time here that your Government, especially Bush and his Father start the wars in this world and the Terrorism, and then call on us an other countries to come in and help him out. We are sick of hearing about Bush and hope at our elections later this year that we can vote out his FRIEND PM Howard too.

Ali Hirst (286)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 12:44 am
Again Wolf....The U.S. and the world are coming apart at the seams all around us.
Australia is not falling apart!!!! If we are we have the US Government to thank!!!!

Alf I (246)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 6:18 am
“If by the mere force of numbers a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution”
Abraham Lincoln
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.”
John Fitzgerald Kennedy
“I began revolution with 82 men. If I had to do it again, I do it with 10 or 15 and absolute faith. It does not matter how small you are if you have faith and plan of action.”
Fidel Castro

One Love (130)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 7:27 am
Thanks Alf!

One Love (130)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 7:31 am
Howard will be gone...

John Jones (143)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 7:34 am
You know, I was hoping we won the Revolution in the 60s & 70s but looks like we have to do it all over again. I knew that "ME generation" was a mistake.

Linda D (41)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 8:34 am
Wolf, all that anger can affect your health. Take a walk in a garden. Listen to some pleasant music. Name calling and false accusations are hurtful and weaken whatever points you are trying to make. Chicken Little ran around saying, "The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!" Well, the sky is still up there. The world is not falling apart, or coming apart at the seams. There are world tensions and changes taking place and war in some places, but I believe good will triumph over evil through faith and education. I wish you would discuss articles more calmly.

Lovebug Honey (35)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 8:43 am
i guess maybe im not a conspiracy nut, since i been trying to warm people on Care2 in the past four years.
Wolf and I have been bringing you the best cited articles on what is really going on, Maybe people need to pay more attention and hopefully it is not to late.

American Police State: The Frog Has Cooked
Miami cops to stage sieges, randomly check ID's, ride buses and trains

Paul Joseph Watson | November 29 2005

How do you boil a frog?

You don't throw the frog into a pot of boiling water, it would immediately jump out. You let the frog sit in warm water and slowly heat the pan until the frog boils to death.

How do you erect the infrastructure of a police state?

You incrementally condition both the police and the public that relinquishing liberty in the name of security is necessary because 'we live in dangerous times.'

Be sure to make Grandpa remove his shoes at the airport but let that cargo through without inspection every time. The truth is that the mythical 'war on terror' was never meant to be won and can never be won because it doesn't exist.

The real terror is being waged against ordinary people by our own government.

To say we live in a police state is no longer an alarmist cliche. Perception has clearly and permanently shifted from the police being there to serve the people to the police being there to control the people.

The Associated Press reports today,

Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.

"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.

Both uniformed and plainclothes police will ride buses and trains, while others will conduct longer-term surveillance operations.

"People are definitely going to notice it," Fernandez said. "We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights are being threatened. We need them to be our eyes and ears."

Here we have American police chiefs using military terminology and directing it against American citizens. The random sieges, ID checking and public transport casing is the very benchmark of a police state.

During a recent trip to the States I realized that the 'land of the free' is in many ways less free than the quasi-Socialist European cesspit I call my home.

You have to carry your ID everywhere in America, it's almost impossible to get by without it. Buying a pack of cigarettes, renting a canoe, using any public service, requires you to show your ID. Americans are so used to being asked for it that the kind of random sweeps being planned in Miami won't raise an eyebrow. The frog has been sitting in the pot carelessly boiling to its death for too long now.

The Miami model is the very definition of a pervasive police state based on the fear of terrorists and the fear of being identified as a terrorist if you do not comply with every demand, no matter how much it brutalizes every notion of what it is to live in a free society.

And where are the terrorists exactly?

Those goatherders and shoemakers being tortured at Gimo?

The Pakistani citizens grabbed in the mountains and sold to the US as terrorists by Taliban gangsters for $25,000?

Jose Padilla, an American citizen, is interned in a military brig for over three years while so-called Al-Qaeda members are tortured to try and implicate him in a dirty bomb plot, it doesn't work and he's brought up on some lame charge of conspiracy. None of the dirty bomb claims can be proven because the other 'Al-Qaeda members' the defense lawyers would call to testify either don't exist, are dead, or their captures were staged by the US government for war propaganda.

The whole pantomime in quite pathetic but it is being scripted to convince Americans that giving up their rights aids the baloney war on terror.

The phantom terror cells waiting to strike inside America are about as real as Saddam Hussein's intercontinental biological weapons drones. They don't exist.

Yet the semi-retarded police chiefs and foot soldiers who salivate over the Miami model do so in the warped fundamentalist belief that they are protecting America from the evil Muslims.

The government terrorists that blew up trains and buses in Madrid and London chose those targets because they want to move the police state into areas which affect all of us on a day to day basis. That way the dictatorship has the excuse to be up close and personal.

If we do not radically increases our efforts to stop this horror, in a very short time America is going to look like a combination of 1984, They Live, The Running Man and 'V' all rolled into one.

Showing your ID to the federal stormtrooper as he cases the bus with an M16 will be the least of your concerns.

The behavior analysis surveillance cameras will be more of a worry. Will it pick up on the fact that you're sweating a little after running for that train? Have a big presentation to make at the conference today? A little nervous? Let's hope the mind scanner doesn't take that as potential signpost for Al-Qaeda membership.

This isn't a future dystopia, the technology is already in use.

The near future looks like this.

Biometric iris scanners in every mall, cinema, sports stadium and government building.

Behaviour analysis security cameras that will flag armed National Guard if your physical behaviour happens to be Al-Qaeda like in the opnion of Big Brother.

Brain scanners that detect stress, another benchmark of your potential to blow something up.

RFID-tracked ID cards with colored grades of security clearance denoting what public services you are allowed to access by the government. Don't worry, if you're a well behaved boot licker your food stamp quota will be high.

Federal stormtroopers on every corner of every major city randomly checking ID's, doing pat downs and searching bags.

Special alert signals that will help the public catch dissidents on the loose. High definition LCD mug shots of said evildoers on high rises in major cities.

Food stamp and credit bonuses for information leading to apprehension of said evildoers.

Mind control towers that send out calming beams of mental candy floss to keep the slaves in line. Conspiracy theory? Sound weapons that both disperse and calm protesters are already being used from Iraq to New York.

Talking telescreen surveillance cameras that bark orders at anyone not showing the proper bodily and mental characteristics and traits.

Surveillance drones watching Americans from up high.

Foreign troops and mercenaries utilized to dish out their particular brand of fascism and tyranny.

The torture cadres of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, and the bloodthirsty serial killers now roaming Iraq, will be brought home to have their way with anti-government terrorists threatening to halt the construction of the glorious Fourth Reich.

Regular car bombs and suicide bomber attacks to keep the state of emergency high and provide the justification for all of the above. This is the Miami model and it's the ultimate goal of the psychopathic elite.

Sound like an alarmist rant?

Tell that to Deborah Davis, a war Mom now going to court in Denver for refusing to show her ID when a federal God stormed the bus and demanded to see it.

The consequences of the next staged terror attack will make all this look like milquetoast and Americans have been carefully prepared for such eventualities like a vetenarian pets a dog before the lethal injection.

The frog has cooked and if we don't figuratively jump out of the boiling pot right now we're going to be devoured by the gaping jaws of the insane, maniacal, sociopathic, remorseless, bloodthirsty Globalists who see the creation of total and absolute despotism as their divine calling.


One Love (130)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 8:51 am
Thank you Lovebug Honey.

One Love (130)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 8:59 am
The Biopolice

Lovebug Honey (35)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 9:11 am
Why hasn't Washington DC ever become a state of the union?

because the governement was set up as a private corporation and is separate from America.
The governement has NEVER been With the people, for the people by the people, It has always been for the corporation, paid by corporations and run by corporations.
When Cheney says he is separate from the executive branch he is correct. The governement has nothing to do with America and looking out for its best interests. The US governement was a set up from the very beginning to control the population and give them a false sense of security. When in actuality, It was an enslavement from the very beginning.
Do some research and find out the US Government is a private company, corporation.
Maybe this will give you an idea where America went wrong.

Im sorry to have to tell you
But the Boston Tea Party, did not play out the way the schools want us to beleive.
It was GW's men dressed as red coats to scare the population into thinking it needed a central govt. And apparently it worked. That was the beginning of the end of america and its so called freedoms.

And to let more folks know, the Native American Indians, migrated from France. They came to america for the same reasons the pilgrims did. For freedom.
However the Freemasons had their hand in America from the very beginning.

Freemasons included
George Washington
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
and many others

The plan for a police state has been in the works for centuries.
Realize all the people in control are nothing more then Inbred elite families, who through time and inbreeding have created of really sicko, mentally defiecient people, Bush is number one with Blair following secondly.
Blair and Bush are cousins.

Oh i left out the most important part. The US goverment is owned by England and two smaller countries, like Chile and i can't remember.
If you listen to the Alex Jones Friday Radio show, he explained it all, who exactly owns the US Govt, It is NOT the People. this has been a lie thrown upon us to beleive
I believe its called conditioning

What Americans are being hit with

false arguments(two sided for division and no unity among the people)

Religion, War, Health issues, animal rights
Poisons in the foods
Pentagon Propaganda
global warming
FOX News lies(propaganda)
TV subliminal messaging
weather modification(controlling natural disasters for laundering money where needed)

all these above topics are meant nothing more then a distraction, while they slowly cook the frog

AMERICA WAKE UP, before your boiled

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 9:43 am

Thank you, Lovebug! Dr. Watson (Ph.D.) outdid himself again, and that's from clear back in 2005! It certainly puts in perspective what's coming, but certain people (who I'm ignoring now and not going to let their wilfull ignorance bother me) will not believe it until it's all around them; and then, of course, it will be far too late!

I hope you're right, Helen, but I don't think you are. We have all of those "freedoms" you outlined here too, thus far; although, who knows yet whether or not others like Jose Padilla (whose mind has been completely destroyed through torture) have been "disappeared", here and/or in Australia! I think the police-state has been creeping in "down-under" more than you are aware of yet. Believe me, your government, for fear of the "terrorist threat", is setting up more and more invasive police state controls, just as they are doing here and many places all over the world, particularly in your "sister-country(ies)", the United Kingdom (U.K.) and Canada, which in some ways appear to be "models" for the U.S. and elsewhere, seeing just how much they can set up and foist on us and get away with it! You're going to see more and more police-state intrusions, into the rights to be free of them, very soon, you mark my words! Believe me, Helen, I would definitely like to be wrong, but Paul Watson isn't, and either am I, very sadly and unfortunately!


We can actually have a fire in theater, and the sky can literally be falling in a sense (radioactive dust from "depleted" uranium raining down on us constantly), but most people will convince themselves people are supposedly "crying wolf" who aren't, they won't believe they're in trouble, and they will get consumed by the fire and/or the poisons. (Of course, on the latter, it's already too late, and they want to bomb Iran with worse, spreading far more radiation that's worse all over the globe, but the "positive thinkers" won't exercise their obligation, responsibility and/or duty to try and stop it! No, our mass-murderous "leaders" supposedly know best! Yah, right!)


Marci Marcel S (326)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 1:02 pm


Past Member (0)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 1:18 pm
And this time let's not dissipate our energy by trashing each other in leftist sectarian squabbles over who has the more pure ideology because it's taking "too long", the way progressives did during the 70's while the right wing consolidated power and led the country into Reaganism. It will take all of the love and determination that we progressives can muster in order to convince average, non-political people to unite to take back the planet. The trashing already eems to have started, judging by some of the posts here. Please, let's save it for the pigs in power. Yes, we are all frustrated and furious that everyone is not getting involved, let's not take it out on each other.

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 3:18 pm
For those of you who may be unfamiliar with science fiction, the late Robert A Heinlein wrote a story in the 40's called "If This Goes On---". Its premise is the takeover of the United States by evangelical theocrats, and becoming a religious dictatorship, which (years later) is followed by a bloody Second American Revolution.

The story was part of his "Future History" series of stories (omnibus collection called "The Past Through Tomorrow"), and has never been out of print to my knowledge. He once mentioned that no one had ever, in all the years since, questioned the basic premise that it could happen here.

Short bio: Heinlein served in the Navy till forced out for medical reasons. He remained on the rolls through most of his life. His science fiction was sociological in nature, and was more concerned with the behavior of people than of technical gadgets. Still, his stories helped take us to the moon, having inspired generations of scientists, and he did quite a bit of scientific and engineering work as well. He died in 1988.

At some time in the near future I plan to post his remarks on "If This Goes On ---". Some might find it illuminating, some might find it offensive. People who know of Heinlein will know that he was right, as Nehemiah Scudder is already in the White House.


Past Member (0)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 3:21 pm
I see there's still a glitch
in the comments.

Booger !

(Can't say what I WANT to say. . .)

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 4:19 pm

Heinlein, one of my very favorite SciFi authors and writers! "The majority is usually wrong"! Stranger in a Strange Land (which I'm beginning to re-read right now---the uncut version which I don't think I'd read the first time)! I just got through reading Spider Robinson's representation of notes for a Heinlein novel that he never got around to writing before he died, "Variable Star"! It was excellent, but it wasn't Heinlein in my opinion, with too much of Spider Robinson's style and modern-day sexual mores and/or language, though I still enjoyed it very much! Before that, finishing it only a few weeks ago, the "new" compilation of Heinlein short stories that wasn't published until 2005, "Off the Main Sequence"! Even more excellent because it was all Heinlein all the way! Some months back I read a newly released novel by him that hadn't ever been released before, "For Us The Living", which wonderful and Heinlein to the core and uncensored!

I'll have to re-read that one you mention, Okami! It sounds very familiar, but I don't own it, yet! I must have checked it out of the library a few years ago and read it! I hope it doesn't turn out that I discover Heinlein was a Freemason like I just found out about Arthur C. Clarke, who I used to love until I heard that and found that one of his recent novels co-written with someone else was very humanistic; and that "2001, A Space Odyssey" was allegedly all about one-world government, which I'd never thought of and/or recognized before in the story or the movie! Because, if Heinlein was also a Freemason, that would explain why he was so prophetic in "If This Goes On...."! Clarke evidently wants the very evil one-world government, believing very falsely that it's supposedly "a good thing"! I sure hope Heinlein didn't think it was a good thing and want it too! It certainly would be highly disconcerting to say the least! Freemasons are extremely evil!


Past Member (0)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 7:07 pm
A few weeks later, on the 29th of September, Leahy entered into the Congressional Record that he had "grave reservations about certain provisions of the fiscal Year 2007 Defense Authorization Bill Conference Report," the language of which, he said, "subverts solid, longstanding posse comitatus statutes that limit the military's involvement in law enforcement, thereby making it easier for the President to declare martial law." This had been "slipped in," Leahy said, "as a rider with little study," while "other congressional committees with jurisdiction over these matters had no chance to comment, let alone hold hearings on, these proposals Bush sign bill enabling martial law,Bush sign oct 17th allowing Bush to impose martial law on any state or territory. scary something to think about.

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 7:16 pm
About a week ago Bush secretly signed something called the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" that "allows the president to declare a 'public emergency' and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to 'suppress public disorder.'"

you know what they say about secrets? why is Bush doing every thing on the down low.? what is he up to.?

Lovebug Honey (35)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 7:35 pm
SPP North American Union is Next

The SPP is a hostile takeover of democratic government and an end to the Rule of Law

Constance Fogal
Global Research
Saturday Aug 4, 2007

Connie Fogal says the SPP is the "hostile takeover" of the apparatus of democratic government and an end to the "rule of law". There has been a kind of coup d'état over the government operations of Canada, U.S.A. and Mexico.

The first formal step towards the NAU was NAFTA. Ron Pastor of the Council on Foreign Relations has affirmed that. The Canadian Action Party, a registered federal sovereigntist political party in Canada, began as a party in 1997 precisely because none of the mainstream parties were calling for the clear, outright, unequivocal abrogation of NAFTA, or for control of our national monetary system.

Even now, our mainstream Canadian political parties and significant citizen groups are still stuck on re-negotiation of NAFTA (they talk of fair trade) which completely misses the point. As such, they remain blinded, and of no use to the citizens who care about our nation and our sovereignty, our independence, our civil liberties, our civil rights, our culture, our freedom .

The second formal step was the integration and subjugation of Canada's military into the US military command under NORAD, NORTHCOM, and the Bi-National Planning Agreement. That is why our Canadian military is in Afghanistan.

The third formal step in the creation of the NAU was the implementation of the respective liberty-stripping anti-terrorist legislations, the Patriot Act in the USA and the Anti-terrorist Act in Canada. This has been the mechanism to implement the police state apparatus necessary to enforce Fortress America.

The fourth formal step is the SPP, Security and Prosperity Partnership Agreement. That agreement is a "hostile takeover" of the Executive branch of government, a coup d'état over the government operations of Canada, U.S.A. and Mexico.

The three branches of democratic governance are:

1, the legislative arm, i.e., the policy makers, the people we elect;

2, the judicial arm, i.e., judges who interpret and apply the laws created by the policy makers; and

3, the executive arm, i.e., the civil service, the bureaucracy, who implement and run the policy and operations of government.

The SPP is a treasonous metamorphosis of our federal and provincial government bureaucracies into formal instruments to implement the agenda of the shadow government - the military/ industrial/ financial complex exemplified by the Canadian Council of Chief Executives who in turn are dominated by the U.S Council on Foreign Relations, and the US military apparatus. The S.P.P. has created the competitiveness council (10 to 16 people from industry and academe unelected by citizens, unaccountable to citizens, unrepresentative of citizens ) in each of Canada, U.S.A., and Mexico. They meet with our Prime Minister and the two Presidents. They actively direct the restructuring of the civil service apparatus and governance of Canada, U.S., and Mexico away from instruments serving the public interest and nationhood, and into tools to serve the power and greed of the industrial, financial, military complex. This Competitiveness Council will be at Montebello directing the three leaders in August, 2007 finalizing the last steps of the NAU.

Since March, 2005, under the direction of three senior cabinet ministers of each country, about 100 working groups of unelected officials from government and industry have been meeting at taxpayer expense deciding on and directing the implementation of the restructuring of the apparatus of governance and the form of rule over the people. Their command goes out down the chain of bureaucracy expending vast amounts of taxpayer dollars implementing the changes in our border crossings, in our airports, on our airplanes, in our skies, on and to our roads and highways, in our personal identification systems, in our health, in our vaccines, over our food supplements, in our pesticide safety levels, in our schools and universities, in the exploitation of our natural resources-our rivers, lakes, oil, gas, in our environment, in the arms industry, in the manufacture and use of depleted uranium, in the exploitation of and experimentation on our indigenous people and our military personnel, in immigration, over our right of Habeus Corpus, in our right of due process, our right to assemble and our freedom of speech, etc., etc.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people has been eliminated while those people we have elected stand idly in the sidelines apparently blissfully oblivious, or deliberately careless of the termination of their policy making role except as a rubber stamp. Those we have elected have abused their responsibility to protect our power, the people's power. They have permitted an undemocratic elite to control them and the operation of government. It is by us, the general citizenry, that Members of Parliament and Members of Legislative Assemblies and city councillors,and Senators and congressmen are supposed to be ruled in all matters, not by the military/ industrial/ complex that General Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about on his final address to his nation. The Prime Minister and Presidents along with their most senior Cabinet members and officials really now do apply a "Divine Right of Kings" mentality to their role. They have metamorphosed into a cancer rotting the life out of our democracies.

For this reason the Canadian Action Party calls for electoral reform not just in how we elect candidates, but why and how the bureaucracy operates. In particular, we call for a curb on the exercise of power in the executive branch of government, and especially in the P.M.s office. This need is of paramount importance because it is the key to why and how three nations (Canada, USA, Mexico) are being dismantled.

Remember, if you believe in democratic accountable representation, there must be a universal franchise. Government of the people, by the people, for the people still is right. It is not government by officials of any organization or interest group whether public or private who are unelected by, unrepresentative, and unaccountable to the general public. We need to reform our government structure so that we can recall and replace any person we elect when they fail to keep their promise or do their duty to us, the citizenry; and, we also need to turn our executive arm of government back to being the servant of the citizens.

The Security and Prosperity Partnership Agreement (S.P.P) is deliberately not a formal international treaty such as NAFTA which is set out in a system of rule by international law. As a legal treaty the SPP would never have flown because it would have been exposed to scrutiny. It remains a work in progress agreement of incredible treacherous magnitude. It has already succeeded in implementing profound changes to three nations integrating the geographical region of North America. We do not even know the full extent of what has been completed or what little is left to be accomplished..

We know that a powerful think tank chaired by former Sen. Sam Nunn and guided by trustees including Richard Armitage, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Harold Brown, William Cohen and Henry Kissinger, is in the final stages of preparing a report to the White House and U.S. Congress on the benefits of integrating the U.S., Mexico and Canada into one political, economic and security bloc.

We know that the final report, published in English, Spanish and French, is scheduled for submission to all three governments by Sept. 30, according to the Center for Strategic & International Studies.

We know that the data collected for the report is based on seven secret roundtable sessions involving between 21 and 45 people and conducted by CSIS. The participants are politicians, business people, labour leaders and academics from all three countries with equal representation.

We know all this because it is described in a CSIS report, "North American Future 2025 Project."

It will be interesting to see who the think tank representatives will be that appear before our Canadian Parliament and how it is presented since so many of our Canadian MP's deny this integration is happening. They need to realize that the vote still works in Canada and if they want to be re-elected, they must repel the submissions for integration. In fact, their duty to us is to refuse to hear such a delegation. SInce when has it become lawful to entertain discussion or debate on any form of treason??

This kind of presentation by such influential players will likely be a formalization of the integration as a done deal.

We, the citizens, must demonstrate to our governments that we demand an end to the integration of North America . And, we must tell them we are not asking for a front row seat at our hanging party. We do not want to be involved or to have them involved in any negotiations or discussions or debate about how our nations are to die. We already know we do not want a North American Union, period!!! They must repel the formal instructions coming to them this fall from the shadow government.

In recognition of our sovereign democratic rights and powers as citizens promulgated by the respective founding fathers of three nations, the Canadian Action Party calls upon all Canadians to join with our neighbours in the USA and Mexico to stand and defend our distinctive nations, NOT TO CALL FOR DEBATE AND DISCUSSION ON INTEGRATION. We must DEMAND SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE We must make a sound and sight so that uninformed citizens can be alerted. How can we do this?

Right now, focus on being at the 25 km perimeter around Montebello, Quebec on August 20 and 21, 2007. In a separate e mail I will send suggestions about Montebello actions

Connie Fogal Leader is leader of the Canadian Action Party (CAP/PAC)


Lovebug Honey (35)
Sunday August 5, 2007, 7:41 pm
Secret memo: One-world agenda dominates SPP summit
Document reveals plan for meeting of U.S., Mexico, Canada leaders

Posted: July 24, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2007

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice with her counterparts, Canadian Foreign Minister Peter MacKay and Mexican Foreign Minister Patricia Espinosa at February meeting
A multinational business agenda is driving the upcoming summit meeting of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, according to a document obtained through an Access to Information Act request in Canada.

The memo shows a secondary focus of the leaders' meeting in Montebello, Quebec, Aug. 20-21, will be to prepare for a continental avian flu or human pandemic and establish a permanent continental emergency management coordinating body to deal not only with health emergencies but other unspecified emergencies as well.

(Story continues below)

As WND has reported, President Bush, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Mexico's President Felipe Calderon will attend the third SPP summit.

The Security and Prosperity Partnership is unveiled in Jerome Corsi's book, 'The Late, Great USA'

The document, obtained by Canadian private citizen Chris Harder, is a two-page heavily redacted summary of the ministerial meeting in Ottawa, held Feb. 23 between Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her counterparts, Canadian Foreign Minister Peter MacKay and Mexican Foreign Minister Patricia Espinosa.

The purpose of the Feb. 23 meeting in Ottawa was to set the agenda for the August summit.

The Access to Information Act-obtained memo noted the nation's leaders intend next month to pursue the five priorities set at their second summit meeting in Cancun in March 2005:

Strengthening Competitiveness

Avian and Pandemic Influenza

Emergency Management

Energy Security

Secure Borders
Of the five issues, the memo clearly states recommendations by the North American Competitiveness Council, or NACC, regarding competitiveness "took centerpiece" at the Feb. 23 meeting. Almost immediately, the memo says, governments "will need to begin assessing the potential impact of adopting recommendations made by the NACC and coordinating their response to the authors of the report."

The memo states "the most dynamic element on the plenary agenda was a meeting with the NACC, the body created by the Leaders in 2006 to give the private sector a formal role in providing advice on how to enhance competitiveness in North America."

The NACC consists of 30 multinational business corporations that advise SPP and set the action agenda for its 20 trilateral bureaucratic working groups.

The memo notes the NACC was created by the leaders in 2006 "to give the private sector a formal role in providing advice on how to enhance competitiveness in North America."

According to the memo, the NACC made recommendations in three areas: border-crossing facilitation, standards and regulatory cooperation, and energy integration.

The memo suggested NACC members were getting impatient, charging the speed of SPP regulatory change was too slow. The members complained of "the private sector's seeming inability to influence the pace of regulatory change 'from the bottom up.'"

"Some NACC representatives," the memo comments, "felt that direct signals from ministers were required if work was to advance at a pace rapid enough to address challenges from more dynamic international competitors – particularly China. The subtext was clear: In the absence of ministerial endorsement, bureaucracies are unlikely to act on the more challenging recommendations."

The memo noted the ministers agreed at their Feb. 23 meeting to finalize by June a plan to create a coordinating body to prepare for the "North American response to an outbreak of avian or pandemic influenza." The leaders are expected to finalize the plan at the August summit.

The memo also reported ministers agreed to create a coordinating body on emergency management similar to that set up for avian or pandemic flu. The governance structure of coordinating body was also scheduled for completion in June, so it could be presented to the leaders for final approval at the August summit.

A comment at the end of the memo said the ministers at their Feb. 23 meeting "acknowledged that the SPP was largely unknown or misunderstood and needed to be better communicated beyond the officials and the business groups involved."

WND has reported that as many as 10,000 protesters plan to assemble in Quebec to show opposition to the summit.

The Corbett Report, a Canadian blog that first reported on the memo obtained by Harder, noted the term "Security and Prosperity" was first used by the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, or CCOCE, in a Jan. 23, 2003, report entitled, "Security and Prosperity: Toward a New Canada-United States Partnership in North America."

CCOCE's membership consists of 150 of Canada's leading businesses. In the U.S., the Chamber of Commerce would be considered a counterpart.

WND previously reported on National Security Presidential Directive No. 51 and Homeland Security Presidential Directive No. 20, which allocate to the office of the president the authority to direct all levels of government in the event he declares a national emergency.

WND also has previously reported that under SPP, the military of the U.S. and Canada are turning USNORTHCOM into a domestic military command structure, with authority extending to Mexico, even though Mexico has not formally joined with the current U.S.-Canadian USNORTHCOM command structure.


Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 8:09 am

The key word here is "treason(ous)"! Our sovereignity, our independence, our autonomy are being destroyed, in all three countries! This is the ultimate in treason to all three countries, but particularly to the U.S. and Canada! But the NAU/SPP people have been bringing this police state in so stealthfully that most people, including many if not most politicians in all three countries, don't know it's happening, or they've been convinced that it's supposedly a "good" thing! We are in deep, deep, deep trouble people! These psychopathic communist-fascist control freaks are putting the finishing touches on absolute tyranny and repression!

Does anyone think 10,000 people protesting this in Montebello, Canada is going to make any sufficient difference?! These tyrants have already made arrangements for that! Do you know they have special "jails", or secret prisons, some if not much of them underground, in Canada for just such a contingency?! One of the protesters from protesting the last Bilderberger gathering in Ottawa last year was given a taste of the absolute-control system that all three countries have set up, was held for many, many hours, interrogated and threatened constantly, and he was so intentionally scared almost to death that he's afraid to talk about it!

Alex Jones was also taken into custody when he went up to protest that Bilderberger summit, and he and his film crew were held for six or seven hours. Of course the "authorities" played it more careful with them because they are so high-profile, but they still made it VERY clear that it was about instilling fear and intimidation, attempting to get them to think twice about protesting such so-called "fait accomplis" or "done deals" again, and to try to get them to just give up! In other words, so much of the control apparatus for this system has already been set up right underneath our noses, and they are ready for mass-lockups of recalcitrant and/or uncooperative citizens!!

We've got to do MUCH MORE than sending 10,000 protesters to Montebello! If we don't rise up en masse as a peoples (sic) and arrest ALL of these traitors, we are done for! I'm not trying to be discouraging here, but I'm just trying to make clear that these tyrants EXPECT our paltry protests, and they know those "miniscule" protests aren't going to do any good, so we've got to understand that they are not going to do any good either, and that we've got to do soooo much more (sic)! Do you understand?! We've got excise the very root of the problem!! We've got to stop ALL of these traitors in their tracks, and the ONLY WAY that can be done is to arrest all of them and try them for treason!!

But are any of my latter suggestions going to be carried out?! I doubt it!! It would take over fifty percent of our elected officials realizing that treason is even going on and wanting to stop it!! And it would also take over half of military and police being willing to take orders from those 51+ percent of politicians to arrest all of the most powerful and influential, sitting "officials"!! Yet most of the politicians are involved in it, sold out to it, and/or are capitulating to it; and the police and military are only taking their orders from the traitors; so it is very unlikely that what must take place to put a complete stop to this international coup d'etat, is going to happen!!

So, should we give up?? NO WAY!! But we've GOT TO wake up most of the populaces of at least two of our countries, Canada and the U.S., and we've got to, as I said above, rise up en masse and not accept ANY of this overthrow of the autonomy, independence and sovereignity of our countries!! Thus, we've GOT TO keep waking eachother up!! That's our ONLY secular, temporal hope, unless of course the U.S. military, or the militaries of Canada and/or Mexico, with at least the eventual cooperation of the U.S. military, rise up and carry out a coup d'etat against their respective governments!! But, if that was going to happen, it probably already would have!!

Needless to say, it is the DUTY of our "authorities" to stop this treason, but they haven't done so, it doesn't appear that they are going to do so, and it appears that they are going along with it!! Therefore, it is up to "We the People" to put a stop to all of this; yet, the only way that we're going to be able to successfully do so is if the vast majority of at least the U.S. citizenry rises up en masse against it!! But right now most of them are so lulled to sleep, and so deeply don't even want to "get" that we are under such extreme danger right now, that if we don't wake them up, they are not going to take us seriously!!

Even many if not most "progressives" on C2/C2NN think we're "Chicken Littles'", that we're supposedly "crying wolf", and/or that we're crying fire in a crowded theater when there supposedly is no fire!! What do we do to wake these people up?! How do we get them to realize that we're not exaggerating AT ALL, that WE ARE in extremely dire, grave danger, and that it is NOT true that we supposedly can't do anything about it anyway?! And even if we get most of them to realize that we are in such extremely grave, dire danger, how do we get them to see that we're NOT wolves in sheep clothing, and that we TRULY want to remedy and correct this extremely threatening state of affairs?!


Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 8:33 am


Roseann d (178)
Monday August 6, 2007, 12:10 pm
So I know our military are supposed to be Freedom Fighters, but are they fighting "for" or "against" freedom at this point?

James S (25)
Monday August 6, 2007, 2:17 pm


James S (25)
Monday August 6, 2007, 2:32 pm
Our own military may be a hope yet for us, at least the non-com enlisted part, the Guard, the Reserves. There's been recent news on Pentagon cooperation with soldiers civilian employers to not hold their jobs as a deterrent to them opting out of service prematurely (like the rest of their lives?). Not surprising. Check out these sites.

Troops Resistance:

Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 3:07 pm

....And Veterans for Peace, as well as Veterans Against the Iraq War, at:; and,


Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 3:24 pm

....Getting back to the Bilderberg Montebello protest(s), don't get me wrong, more power to the 10,000 protestors! They should still carry out that protest, and all kinds of protests should continue to be carried out all over the place! But we've got to get together one or more great big, huge mass-protest(s) on D.C. of at least one-million-strong, and we've got to refuse to leave the White House area, and/or the Capital area, until Bush and Company surrender themselves to authorities for treason! We've got to organize it so that there are "relief crews", people who just bring porta-potties, food, water, etc., to the protesters so they don't have to leave! Porta-potties on the back of flatbed trucks that drive right "into" the crowd(s) to bring them relief, and trucks or other vehicles to bring the food and water, etc.! In other words, it's got to be a huge "sit-in" and/or "mass-civil-disobedience" that refuses to move no matter what happens! The People HAVE TO be willing to put their very lives and/or freedom from long-term incarceration on the line! And somebody help me to get there, and I'm there with bells on! Let's get it on! Let's call it "Rock the Planet" or some such thing! Let's go!


Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 3:37 pm

James, what's "premature"? After three tours of duty, four? Do you get my point? One tour of duty should be more than enough from the soldiers point of view, but they make these guys go back again and again and again! So it is NOT premature for them to say "NO" after one tour! Yet, short of reinstating the draft, God forbid, they can't keep the number(s) of war-zone active-duty soldiers up without these "stop-loss" measures, if I understand it correctly. If I was these guys, those of them who quickly realize what's going on over in Iraq and Afghanistan is completely wrong, immoral and illegal, I'd say "F--- the job not waiting at home" and get the hell out anyway! Better to starve to death than to contribute to, and/or be complicit in, mass-murdering innocent civilians in a totally illegal war! To our troops, I say, "Follow your conscience(s)!"


James S (25)
Monday August 6, 2007, 3:48 pm
C'mon people, rant and rave, march, protest, talk, talk, talk. All good yes, but not so timely.

If we can motivate 1/6 of the voting population (over two million memebrs alone on Care2) to VOTE YES on the National Initiative for Demoracy, you can stop this madness through VOTER BALLOTING.

Its in the Constitution folks. Our right to self-govern!

PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS IF YOU ARE SERIOUS. If all you want to do is talk about it or march or protest and wait for the elctions and hope for the best, then maybe you're not ready...


NI4 Care2 POST:

Ali Hirst (286)
Monday August 6, 2007, 3:56 pm
Wolf this sounds like a great idea..Can we bring Howard along and impeach him too..Oh you forgot the burgers/meat.vegetables...wish we could do that here in Australia and get rid of our PM. But protests are the one thing we can't do here without a permit and that costs big money. We have a Police march here on Sunday for higher pay...We have them coming from all over the state of Qld to march to Parliament House. I hope they listen this time as Emergency Services can't strike either.

James S (25)
Monday August 6, 2007, 3:58 pm
Wolf, I guess I should have quoted the word "prematurely". It was a sarcastic implication of what Bush sees as "premature", not mine.

If a soldier finds he has lost his job and his enlistment officer is standing close by, like over his shoulder... Understand now what I meant?

Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 4:25 pm

No, James, you misunderstood me, I didn't misunderstand your allusion, and I wasn't correcting you, I was simply adding to the discussion. Sorry you thought I was correcting you. I was just being "forceful" in what I was saying, and agreeing with your allusion that what their doing to the soldiers is W-R-O-N-G.

Isn't that JUST GREAT, Helen!? The cops can protest, but the citizens can't!!??!! What kind of bullpucky is that???!!! Now, once the cops have finished protesting, they should grant the citizens their free right(s) to protest permit-free!!!!!! Of course, they won't! Talk about just plain W-R-O-N-G!!!!!! And you claim you don't live in a police state!!!??? If Australia is really a free country, than the first, foremost and primary rights Ausies should have is all of the rights and duties like we have spelled out in the First Amendment of our Constitution (and Article One of the Bill of Rights---the first ten Amendments of the Constitution), to freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom to protest, freedom to dissent, and freedom to "seek redress of grievances from the government"!!!!!! If you don't have those basic liberties, Australia is NOT a free country, and you live in a police state whether you want to realize it or not!!!!!! ( I'm not correcting you either, Helen, I'm just giving emphasis to the FACTS! :)


Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 4:28 pm

CORRECTION(S): No, James, you misunderstood me, I didn't misunderstand your allusion, and I wasn't correcting you, I was simply adding to the discussion. Sorry you thought I was correcting you. I was just being "forceful" in what I was saying, and agreeing with your allusion that what they're doing to the soldiers is (just plain) W-R-O-N-G....


Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 4:44 pm

Helen, I'm sorry, I didn't catch what you said about the police not being allowed to "strike" either, and that you meant protesting. Wouldn't that just be "great" if the cops ended up "going-off" on the striking cops!!! But my basic premise, or point, still stands: The cops there are protesting anyway. If they'll do that, and if they don't come down on themselves, so to speak, arresting themselves or whatever, then they should allow the average citizens to non-violently protest, or strike, as they see fit and not harass, interfere with, arrest, and/or take violent action against them for exercising God-given liberties!


James S (25)
Monday August 6, 2007, 5:30 pm
Cool, Wolf, no problem.

Also why is no one commenting on the NATIONAL INITIATIVE FOR DEMOCRACY? Wouldn't you like to be able to vote on it the next time Bush wants to ammend the Patriot Act, or vote on the Defence budget?

If this bill were to pass, we could start Impeachment proceedings ourselves. That's why we need to consider this legislation. Until we can change our political paradigm away from the profit and power motives, you can call and scream all you want, they'll be polite and then forget you. Without the mainstream media support, and short of the 2008 election (and then depending on how it turns out), nothing else aside from outright revolution is going to change anything. Please someone help me at least start a discussion of this proposal. What have you got to lose? Nothing but getting your power of self-governance back...

Past Member (0)
Monday August 6, 2007, 6:29 pm
Hey, I'll comment: I went straight to it and placed my vote.

Insofar as cops protesting or not protesting, a little personal experience: in most of the cases it'll happen they'll be ostracized or eased out, or the smallest, tiniest, flimsiest excuse will be found to fire them.

That's a way of keepin' the others in line. Protestin' and strikes may work if a GOOD union exists; but otherwise they're as out of luck as anyone else.

Ali Hirst (286)
Monday August 6, 2007, 6:35 pm
Okami they can protest here in Australia we just have to have a permit to do it. It came in after the Anit-Vietnam protests and so many people got injured in the protests. As for the Police here in Qld. You have to sign that you won't strike as part of the work agreement here or you don't get to be sworn in as a police officer. I was getting off topic as I am in Australia and was just comparing the difference in laws to the US.

Ali Hirst (286)
Monday August 6, 2007, 6:42 pm
Wolf the police can protest like anyone else here as long as they have a permit to do so. But it is as I said above to "okami" that part of the swearing in to the Police force here along with other emergency services is that you agree not to strike. The unions have come close to calling strikes over the years and the Ambo's have had stop work meetings with part of their staff going to the meetings. But if the Police, Ambulance and Fireman all went on strike here we would be in bigger trouble because we don't have enough of them now in any of the services to keep up with the demand...the reason..poor wages considering you are on call 24/7 including even on your holidays if a court case comes up you have to come back. So this is why the police are marching to Parliament House here in Brisbane on Sunday, and many civilians have promised to line the 3 klm route to support.

Mohd Noor Ahmad Zambri (7)
Tuesday August 7, 2007, 7:25 am
Goshh..this is certainly getting very hot..I can only wish and pray that the American people can do something about Bush and keep the world at peace. I mean..whatever happens in the US..would ultimately affect everyone else on this planet..All this while..America is seen to be a country with vast opportunity, civilised and most advanced..But with Bush at the seems to be moving backwards...a modern day colonial regime out to conquer the world at whatever means and cost..God help us all.

Thanks for the update One..I think there's always more than one way to attain an objective..If the National Initiaive for Democracy is already provided in your Constitution..why not work on it? Afterall US is such a big country and with the army and police solidly behind the ruler, I am very skeptical of the chances for success through riots..The only thing I see from riots is lots and lots of damages..and it is only the small people that has to pay for it..with President Bush way over his head..I wouldn't be surprise..a simple quiet and peaceful protest may turn into a violent riot..whatmore with his declaration of national emergency...yeah the battle now has finally reached the shores of your homeland..the "people" is now the obstruction...and the obstruction will have to be removed......

And Lovebug..I hope more will see what you see.....the "TRUTH"..

Past Member (0)
Tuesday August 7, 2007, 10:11 am

Mohd, the vast majority of protests, and protesters, are COMPLETELY non-violent and don't let things escalate to violence, because they know that's exactly what the "gub'ment" (how BushCON says it) and the corporate media wants so they can make most protesters look violent, or at least potentially violent, which just isn't true at all! There ARE, of course, "agents provocateur" (kids hired by the government) to carry out violent actions, who usually don't get arrested, or get released out of site, and who get non-violent protesters arrested, and even beat up by the cops, which the media of course concentrates upon to make all protesters and protests look bad, and like so-called evil "anarchy" (when most anarchy and anarchists are non-violent and anti-violence)! After all, what are most protests and protesters after? They're after doing away with violence, especially on the huge scale of war, particularly entirely illegal "war(s) of aggression" and "preemptive war", not being violent themselves! But, also of course, the media and the government have most Americans convinced most protesters and protests are supposedly violent! Go figure!


serge vrabec (278)
Thursday August 9, 2007, 6:30 pm
If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law: Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849
Revolution is necessary!!! THx one

Kathleen R (983)
Friday August 10, 2007, 2:36 pm

Margaret D (0)
Friday August 10, 2007, 3:32 pm
I have tried to get people to see the Nazi influence ever since the selection in 2004... Read Hitler's quotes (Wikiquote)... "It is good for governments when the people don't think" WE NEED TO THINK!

Marguerite snow (22)
Friday August 10, 2007, 4:47 pm
I agree with Tim the end times are near, nearer then we know and it will happen just like that !. I feel sorry for anyone who is not ready for it.
All need to prepare

Marguerite snow (22)
Friday August 10, 2007, 5:05 pm
One Love..
You have to remember that things are not like they were in the 60's people talk about strikes, revolutions and no one does anything but talk anout it. In the 60's we did something, we rallied amd marched on washington, many of us were arrested, had fire hoses shot at us knocking us to the ground, hit with police batons, all because we did not agree with the war, they said we were anti American because of it.
Things are so different now people talk and do nothing.

Chris B (9)
Friday August 10, 2007, 5:13 pm
What is this garbage about the end time being near? Goes it give you some sick solace to believe such rubbish? Is that an excuse to lay down and let the current negativity have it's way with you? Stop being brainwashed and stand up for yourself and what you believe in. I feel sorry for anyone who has bought this bill of crap from the Catholic church. Isn't your life, dreams and the things and people you love worth more than such a ridiculous self imposed death sentence. Come on!! If there were a Jesus He would be vomiting right now to hear anyone preach such defeatist nonsense! Pick up the pieces and believe in something other than total destruction? With all of our faults, isn't humanity worth it? Maybe it's the end times for you, but baby, I'm just getting started! Peace!

Chris B (9)
Friday August 10, 2007, 5:14 pm
What is this garbage about the end time being near? Goes it give you some sick solace to believe such rubbish? Is that an excuse to lay down and let the current negativity have it's way with you? Stop being brainwashed and stand up for yourself and what you believe in. I feel sorry for anyone who has bought this bill of crap from the Catholic church. Isn't your life, dreams and the things and people you love worth more than such a ridiculous self imposed death sentence. Come on!! If there were a Jesus He would be vomiting right now to hear anyone preach such defeatist nonsense! Pick up the pieces and believe in something other than total destruction? With all of our faults, isn't humanity worth it? Maybe it's the end times for you, but baby, I'm just getting started! Peace!

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 1:05 am
As i expected, it`s going down and this is the real thing. It may even be too late for a revelution now because bush has already planned the counter attack. The only hope now is get the word out to as many as you can, as soon as you can. Big posters by big crowds and brutal advertising by spaypainting the message of immediate removal of the bushco criminals everywhere.

Get out late at night and spraypaint everything, to hell with what it looks like. Take care because by taking action you become a target. A very small number of us in SA fought for a very long time and took heavy losses, endured weeks of inhumane torture and pain, but we won. So if you are not prepared to die for your country then sit at home and hope that others will carry your share. It is yours and every other citizens responsibility to share this load.

It`s time to face reallity, be strong, be fearless, for God will be with you all the way.

Kathleen R (983)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 1:28 am
Folks have insisted its the end of times throughout history and they will continue to think its happening "now" -- for many more generations. You think things can't any worse? How naive!!!

Kathleen R (983)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 1:35 am
On the other hand, it is also naive to ignore climatic changes and not to prepare for them like the "end of times". I do not believe it is near the end, but we do need to realize that natural disasters and other events will leave us like New Orleans -- like living in "survival camps".

Ali Hirst (286)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 2:22 am

'Shape up or we're shipping out'
August 11, 2007 01:27pm
PRIME Minister John Howard has warned the Iraqi Government that unless it makes faster progress towards resolving the country's political differences it faces the prospect of Australian and other Western troops withdrawing.

In a letter to his Iraqi counterpart Nouri al-Maliki, Mr Howard urged the Iraqi Government to speed the sharing of oil wealth among all sections of the Iraqi community, including the minority Sunni population, The Weekend Australian newspaper reported.

Mr Howard warned that if the Iraqis failed to make progress, the public support for Australia's military deployment to Iraq may not be sustainable.

The clear implication in Mr Howard's letter, which was sent last week, was that US public support would also falter without signs of substantial political progress in Iraq, the paper said.

Political pressure

It said the letter displayed Mr Howard's deep and growing frustration with the Maliki Government, which has suspended sittings of the Iraqi parliament for the whole of this month.

With the federal election looming, it showed Mr Howard was under real political pressure on Iraq for the first time, the paper said.

In the letter, Mr Howard told Mr Maliki that "prompt, concrete measures are needed not only to secure Iraq's future, but also to ensure regional stability and continued constructive international engagement''.

Mr Howard demanded that the Iraqi Government used the opportunity provided by the US troop surge to take specific and speedy action.

Clear threat

In his letter, Mr Howard reaffirmed his government's stand on the military deployment to Iraq, saying: "Our military commitment (is based) not on a timetable but on security conditions and capabilities of the Iraqi security forces.''

Mr Howard expressed sympathy and understanding for the enormity of the task Mr Maliki faces.

But the paper said the implied threat was clear: Unless the Iraqi Government moved to political reconciliation soon, it would be impossible for Western leaders to hold sufficient support at home to allow them to continue their military and other commitments to Iraq.

No policty shift, says Howard

Prime Minister John Howard today said his letter did not signal a policy shift on Australia's commitment to the war.

Mr Howard said he sent the letter a week ago and he was yet to receive a response, but he said it set out in plain English a requirement that more progress be made to stabilise the country and also distribute wealth generated from oil reserves.

"I was speaking plainly as a friend saying more progress should be made,'' Mr Howard told reporters in Sydney today.

"I'm not threatening a withdrawal, I'm simply saying that Iraq has to make more progress in internal reconciliation.

"The Americans in particular are making an enormous sacrifice, they are losing troops every day.

"I am insisting that it is his responsibility to make progress and we are not signalling any change in policy if that's what you're getting at,'' he said.


One Love (130)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 4:19 am
The whole point of the War Helen was to steal the Iraqi Oil Resources and commit genocide at the same time. Tax payers would pay for the War, Big Oil would get the Oil and the people of Iraq would be slaughtered. You might say it was a NeoCon's wet dream.

But too many people in the Iraqi government figured this out and Howard, Blair and Bush are getting anxious.

Howard is a NAZI just like Blair, Bush, and Sarkozy. They serve the Illuminati.

Blair is out and the other three will follow.

One Love (130)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 4:25 am
As far as "End of Times" we are at a critical juncture. Of course almost all the Biblical components of the Prophecies have come true. The Acts of God, like floods, earthquakes, fires, etc. are driven by the Climate problem. There's even a partial solar eclipse coming on 9/11/07.

But the rise and fall of Babylon in Revelations is what is called a self-fulfilling prophecy. And this is where the Illuminati, use the good people of the Christian Churches to support the war in Iraq. Because the Bible says so. To many Mormons, Christians and Catholics the genocide in Iraq is OK, because the Bible predicted it. Sheeples.

And thanks Richard. One Love is willing to give my life for freedom and democracy so that my children and their children will live in Peace.

There is lots of help to defeat BushCO.

And there are Angels from other Worlds to help too.

The end of the Illuminati is another self-fulfilling prophesy. It is just up to the people to accelerate the change and take massive action like Richard suggests.


Charlie H (53)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 5:59 am
Peace this and peace that......I say arm yourselves for the struggle. You're going to need all the help you can get to defeat the fascists. Shoot the bastards our they'll shoot you!

M. Y (54)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 6:20 am
Way to get yourself on their "terrorist" watch list there, Charlie. You know they're watching, listening. I'd be careful about advocating violent, armed resistance, imho.

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 10:28 am

Great comments, most of you "kiddos", except for Kathleen's naive avoidance and denial of True Christianity, and the comment(s) promoting violence. I couldn't have said it better myself, One, except I would add, which people like Kathleen won't understand, that when people in the past thought it was the "end times", it was, in a sense! It was the end times for THEM. Everyone has only their lifetimes, contrary to one of the ultimate True-Christian-counterfeits, "reincarnation", to get completely right with God before they die, so they are on the correct side of the fence at the resurrection(s) and day(s) of judgment. Yah, it would be very nice if we got chance after chance to get things right as reincarnation deludes, but we don't. Other than that, we are in the very "end times" right now because the FINAL prophecies are being fulfilled right in front of our faces RIGHT NOW! The U.S. is about to "make the image to the Beast" of Revelation 13 by bringing in enforced one-world, counterfeit-"Christian" religious observance, bringing back "Blue Laws" (no doing business on Sunday, the false "sabbath", or counterfeit of the true Sabbath, Saturday), and putting the "national Sunday law" into effect which will require EVERYONE to worship Satan's "Christianity", a combination of some Christianity, Catholicism, Paganism, the occult, Eastern religiosity, etc.! IT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, OR IS ABOUT TO!

Most people, both in "America" and, very soon after that, in the rest of the world, will be fooled into believing this one-world religion is supposedly a "good" thing, and supposedly bringing everyone together in "unity". The extremely bad problems are, it will be a unity on mostly falsehoods, false beliefs, false worship, acceptance of evil like the occult [we see happening right now, particularly on websites like C2, occultists taking over all over the place like wildfire, and such people really believing the deception(s) that it's "all a good thing" ("white magic" and all of those lies)], and it will include the mass imprisonment and/or slaughter of everyone who doesn't conform to it. Satan's counterfeit "Way" [or counterfeit of the ONLY True Way of Jesus the Christ (John 14:6)], is NOT the way to go AT ALL; but, as I say, and as God's Word(s) say (/said), MOST people will prefer the lies to the Truth, as they already do. We were told that when it got to this point, we truly are in the FINAL "end times", and it is not, contrary to Kathleen's lies, "naive" to recognize the COMPLETE Truth of this FACT! The "great controversy between Christ and Satan" is almost finished and over! There is very little that's left to be fulfilled and/or happen; and it's all occurring right in front of us right now, yet most people like Kathleen will deny and avoid it; because, again, they prefer lies, falsehoods, false beliefs, false "gods", evil, the devil(s), etc., to the Truth!

But, please, don't anyone get me wrong or misinterpret me, I am NOT saying that this IN ANY WAY means that we should just "give up", hasten it coming like the evil NeoCON-Nazi-Satanic-"Christians" are doing right now, just kick back and be glad it's happening, and not do anything to stave off the mass murder and imprisonment of innocent people that's already begun! We have a duty to stem the tide of evil for as long as we can! Yes, all of this extreme evil, death and suffering has got to completely happen soon, but we cannot just sit back and let masses of innocent people be imprisoned, murdered and forced to worship Lucifer in the place of Jesus the Christ! It is our duty, responsibility and obligation to seek to prevent evil from taking over completely and wreaking their hell on earth that will be far worse than anything that's been experienced before on the face of this planet! We can't just lay back and let these psychopathic devil worshippers carry out this "hell", and convince the rest into selling their souls' out to mass-evil! We've got to non-violently fight it! The more of us who do so, the more lives we will save to give themselves over ONLY to Truth, give a chance to prepare to be on the right side of the fence when all hell breaks loose, and the more lives that will be snatched from being destroyed for giving themselves over to evil! We've got help eachother in this Way!


Past Member (0)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 10:36 am

In other words, putting it in as few words as possible in summary, don't give in to the mass-insanity NO MATTER WHAT!


Chris B (9)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 12:08 pm
We are ALL beings of infinite light and creativity. Religion, claiming to be the ONLY TRUE CHRISTIANITY, has done nothing more than to impress fear into people while supressing our basic rights as human beings. I won't get behind any belief system that teaches that, nor support ANYONE who thinks they have it all figured out in terms of God and reincarnation. My argument is "Prove it!" The response is always, "Well, I can't but... this book says or that book said,etc!" The same people that burden humanity with dogma and incredible Biblical interpretations are the same ones with a hardcore political agenda intended to keep us masses in a state of instability, fear and ignorance. Oh, we are so not worthy! Well, bubble burst, we are ALL that IS worthy!

We owe it to ourselves and to each other to ask questions that defy unacceptable answers. Why else would "God" give us free will and the power to choose? Why would we submit to those that would imprison our minds and bodies, when the true criminal act is to be complacent and/or accept the current state as prophecies being fulfilled? It is too convenient that so many get rich from these type of interpretations of the Bible and Koran. All of these people have political agendas and demand obedience, with the penalty being death and everlasting life in hell (another man made fantasy). Why would an all knowing God of Love and Compassion sentence any of his creations to doom knowing full well, that He gave them the Will to Choose in the first place, and after what they have already been through on this planet? This philosophy defies logic and common sense and I personally want a smarter, more compassionate God than that if I am to accept one at all.

David Icke has said over and over that "Love is the only true reality and everything else is an illusion!" I must constantly remind myself of this, as it becomes more obvious everyday that we have been brainwashed into believing everything, but that. I CAN handle the truth! I just need someone to actually tell it, and it is certainly not a time of truth be told. We have become so caught up in the materialism, the game and the "I'm right, you're wrong" idea that we cannot even agree to disagree. We have been distracted and lied to by a false media, following the will of the fascist minds that control what we believe and what we should consider to be important. I really do hope there was a Christ and that He is coming back. I also hope that Mohammed is right and Buddha and Confucious, because this Tower of Babel has done nothing but kill, divide and suppress us all and continues to do the same. I'll never learn to love it, OR accept it!

Satanists, luciferians, shadow governments currently have the upper hand. Does it mean we are in any kind of end times? Of course not, foolishness! It means simply that we of free will, are in a revolution to change what has become our given set of circumstances, and change We WILL! Peace!

Past Member (0)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 4:58 pm

That's right, I forgot to respond to you, Chris; although I did somewhat in what I already last wrote. I'm talking in support of ONLY True Christianity! You, on the other hand, are talking about the 99% counterfeit, hyprocritical, so-called "Christianity". The latter HAS done extremely awful things in the names of God and Jesus the Christ, but it does NOT represent them, and it is NOT God's fault that all of this evil has been and is going on! Where you, and all those like you, go wrong, is you throw Jesus the Christ and God out with the baby AND the bathwater, using false, fraudulent "Christianity" or a supposedly justified excuse to discard God.

We should live ONLY the True Christianity of Jesus the Christ, the ONLY Christianity that they represent, and in particular represented to the world in the life of Jesus the Christ when He walked this earth as truly human, God incarnate in a human being. That is ALL we should and must have anything to do with; so, Chris, I'm the first one to agree with you, completely, that we should have nothing to do with ANY of the completely hypocritical, organized, counterfeit, phony, evil, "fundamental(ist)", so-called "Christianity". But to throw God completely out with the fraudulent and false is the biggest irreparable mistake you could EVER make!

Also, to yourself falsely and fraudulent try to influence people to disbelieve the Truth that we are most-definitely in the very end times, is to be used of evil to deceive people so they will not get completely right with their Maker and be ready for His very soon return, to help evil make certain that they are not on the right side of the fence when it is almost all over, and to help make certain they are completely destroyed along with everyone else who discards their Creator. If people like David Icke, who's supposedly separated themselves from extreme satanism like David Icke claims he has, claim that we supposedly don't need God, or some other such clap-trap like we supposedly already have God in us automatically, etc., then they are still sold out to the devil and/or evil!


Chris B (9)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 6:08 pm
Wolf should I address your response as a friendly gesture or take it for what it is, a demeaning, self absorbed Christian opinion on how you believe others should exist. You tell me you completely agree with me and then proceed on a 500 word rant to do the opposite. That is truly the Christian behaviour I am used to.

Your "True" Christianity" has been controlling the world for the past 2000 years and look at the lovely mess you have made. You have had every chance under the sun to put things right. Instead, in the name of the saviour, with a monetary agenda, you have massacred miilions, persecuted anyone not towing your party line and generally promoted fear and self abasement through your unprovable belief system. What is this "true Christianity" you are espousing? 99% are wrong, you say, so you hold the key? Please enlighten everyone as to what that "truth" is, and please spare me the biblical quotations? How do you 1% of Christianity absolve yourself of the sins of the other 99%? Confession? That's always a good one!

I, at no time said I don't believe in God, but being the True Christian you profess to be, you just can't get your head around that and without saying so directly, attack me for my beliefs without any investigation, as you did with David Icke, without having read any of his books, obviously. But you were adept at twisiting my words and the philosophy of Mr. Icke. How very typical and true Christian of you. Every time I attempt a conversation with a "true Christian" the stance is the same. They have this false pleasantry, incidious in it's approach, resentful, all the while espousing that fear agenda they have been brainwashed with. I'm so disappointed, but not surprised.

I'm not insulted, as you seem to be, by the haughty demeanour of your response. Catholic witch hunters made the protestants and pagans of the Dark Ages experience far worse in the name of "true" religion. They used the word "ONLY" repeatedly as well, while they burned women, men and babies alike to convert us all to the "right side of the fence". Ah, but you say we are so much more enlightened now. I think not, as I look around the world and hear the satanic rantings of pedophile priests and watch videos of burned corpses in Fallujah and watch a war hungry Western government destroy the world.

Is it such a horrible admission for you to believe we have God in us? After all, Christianity preaches we are made in the image of God. Heaven forbid your faith to actually empower an individual. That is evil. That is satan talking. What utter rubbish! How could we possibly not have Him contained in us given those conditions? Logic?

I think I see though, that since you can't put one of your "True Christian" labels on my beliefs, that even though you have no idea what they are, you feel compelled to "save" me by putting me "on the right side of the fence" and save me from myself. How very Clockwork Orange of you!

Exactly who gave you the position of deciding who is in the good books of our Maker? The same one that tells you to agree with me and in the next sentence call me fraudulent, misled and influential in misleading people? I didn't want to take up any more space responding, but I just wanted to thank you for solidifying my belief posture and by your own words, prove what I commented on. This dark age of thought is definitely in the end times. We, don't have to be certainly. I'm sorry your belief system doesn't empower you to expect better. Mine does! I'm sorry your free will has been removed and you feel so helpless.

True Christians should learn to be as comfortable with other folks beliefs, as they claim to be with their own! You'll be a lot happier living in love instead of fear! Peace!

Chris B (9)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 6:17 pm
If I seemed harsh, forgive me! Isn't that what Jesus would want you to do?

Cynthia H (155)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 7:36 pm
Chris, You have an eloquent way of expressing beliefs and thoughts that many view as heretical or blasphemous. Personally, if we have to have "man made" religion, I'd prefer to throw out any concept related to "original sin" and replace it with "original blessing". We are ALL a part of God, of creation, of each other, interconnected in every way.

I did note in your first post that you never stated that you don't believe in God. The post following yours must have been referring to the fact that "religions" work so hard at separating us from each other and from God. That typical mindset - if you don't believe in "my" God and believe things my way, then you are wrong because only "my" God is the true God.

There is only one God - no matter your beliefs, your nation, your gender. Separation is an illusion that humanity has been taught and willingly bought into! Belief in a petty, angry, authoritarian God who gives gifts (such as free will!) with one hand, and punishes the use of those gifts with the other is why we live in a petty, angry, authoritarian world!

Ali Hirst (286)
Saturday August 11, 2007, 11:02 pm

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 1:38 am

Chris, you still don't get it, or you only get it, and twist it around, the way you want to get it, and/or the way you want to misinterpret it! True Christianity HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH ANY OF THE THINGS THAT COUNTERFEIT "CHRISTIANITY" HAS WROUGHT FOR ALMOST TWO THOUSAND YEARS! Jesus the Christ HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH CARRYING OUT ANY OF THOSE THINGS EITHER! I'm only talking about the Way Jesus the Christ "walked", talked and lived as True Christianity, NOTHING ELSE. Almost everything about counterfeit "Christianity" is nothing but lies mixed with truth.

The Life Jesus the Christ wants us to live, is nothing but purity, after a complete character transformation back into a unique personality image of God, that which we were created to have, a completely unselfish, un-self-centered, non-self-aggrandizing, self-sacrificing personality; in other words, to be restored to that which were designed for, a personality of service and always putting others first before ourselves, and being willing to die for our True Brethren and for the sake of bringing unbelievers around to find that restoration to what we were created to be as well.

Please don't come back at me in any more of this defensive, uptight, unrighteously angry, self-aggrandizing, demeaning fashion. That's right, you are falsely accusing me of being guilty of what you are reflecting out of yourself, that which you are guilty of, not me; i.e./e.g., I did NOT seek to demean you, but you are most-certainly seeking to demean me with your God-hating, God-discarding, God-demeaning, God-misrepresenting attacking attitude. When people attack me, treat me like I'm the enemy that I'm not, since I am not their enemy AT ALL, belittle God, belittle me, and are generally nasty towards the truth and myself, I rebuke it. If you can't handle the truth, then perhaps you shouldn't continue to carry on this hateful attack of God and me; because I for one will not be intimidated away with your hatefulness, will not tolerate it, and will respond with what your beliefs and/or you brought on yourself, nothing more, nothing less.

You have also put words in my mouth, and taken things for granted, that I did not say. Please read carefully: I did NOT claim that *I* am a True Christian, NOR do I claim to be one. I just know from many years of Biblical research that there is a 1% True Christianity, what the Scriptures call a "remnant", the little bit left over, that it is definitely 100% Truth, and that I and everyone else should be restored to it. Personally, I myself am not restored to it yet, if I'll even make it and ever be restored to it, but I am just one of the few who has discarded organized, counterfeit "Christianity", and all hypocrisy, who hasn't thrown out our Maker with it.

There is no sense in attempting to reason with you, as made abundantly clear by your hateful ranting, but you are "talking to" an Human and Civil Rights Advocate, and complete anti-war activist. On what the supposedly more enlightened today are doing to destroy the world, who are NOT enlightened, but have only deteriorated and gotten much worse as time has passed, though it of course appears like humanity has "advanced", we totally agree, or at least would mostly agree, at least if we left out our religious beliefs; but you have counterfeit-"Christianity" so confused with True Christianity, that you can't see the forest for the trees, and thus I can't reason with you. Also, there is no reasoning with those who falsely find fault with everything that is NOTHING BUT Truth; therefore, I have no interest in arguing with you; but, if you proceed to attack the Truth and me further, I will stand up to you with the full force of the Truth.

Please spare me and everyone else here, though, the libel, slander, character assassination, etc. Of course it makes you look righteous to those who discard God and falsely believe as you do; but, to those who do not reject God, do have discernment, and see right through you as I do, it just makes you look like an "educated fool". Some of the most intelligent and "well-arguing" people in the world have been extremely foolish and/or foolhearty; i.e./e.g., all those involved in creating the atomic bomb(s). But you say so many slanderous, defaming, civil-rights-violating things, you will probably not be able to control yourself from continuing to do so.

Let's see, I'm supposedly 1.) "self-absorbed", 2.) responsible for the evils counterfeit Christianity has perpetrated "for the past 2,000 years", 3.) with a "fear agenda", 4.) "brainwashed", 5.) of a "haughty demeanor", 6.) a "decid(er of) who is in the good books of our Maker", 7.) without "free will", 8.) feeling "helpless", 9.) without "love", and 10.) "living in... fear". NONE of those things is true WHATSOEVER, and are ALL COMPLETELY false, therefore they are ALL slander, defamation of character, and illegal. So please stop the harassment, ALL of those other violations of my civil rights, and any and all other illegality that you will no doubt be tempted to further carry out against me.

At least, if you get nothing else straight that I've said, please get the following straight: I HAVE NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH COUNTERFEIT "CHRISTIANITY", AND HAVEN'T IN ALMOST TWENTY YEARS! I have absolutely no desire to "put" you on the right side of the fence. ONLY YOU can put YOURSELF there, with God's help of course! I couldn't "put" you, or make you, completely right with God no matter how hard I tried; therefore, I would not EVER try to do so. I just put the Truth "out there", such as that we need to be restored to and made right with our Maker, and then it is up to "you" to do so or not.



Ali Hirst (286)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 1:49 am
Wolf I respect what you are saying and it reminds me of something though. This was a political discussion, turn into religion. My Dad always told me when I was growing up never to get involved in an argument about Politics or never win. Discussion yes, but seems you can argue here til the cows come home and those who do not believe in the Bible teachings will never change their ways....until they stand before God....I would like to hear the words "Well done good and faithful servant" But I can only pray and live life as I was bought up a Christian but we all fall down at times. As you say Wolf, only the people concerned can decide which side of the fence they should be on.

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 1:56 am

Cynthia and Helen: You are very right that "THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD", but NOT "by whatever name you know Him". There are MANY counterfeits of Him, but that is all they are, counterfeits, and completely false gods, nothing else. Yes, some of the false gods, religions and spiritual belief systems have some truth mixed in with them, but they mostly contradict truth and are mostly full of falsehoods. Our Creator, Jesus the Christ, said that He is the ONLY Way to God the Father, therefore He is (again John 14:6). The other gods, religions and spiritual belief systems contradict that, therefore they are false.


Ali Hirst (286)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 2:00 am
Wolf I meant that some say God or Heavenly Father...not any of the false Gods' that you are suggesting. I believe in only one God.

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 2:20 am

Amen, Helen, on that we are in complete agreement! That is all I'm trying to do, discuss; but all Chris wants to do is argue, harass, slander, character-assassinate, and defame our Maker and True Christianity, etc. Yet, if he continues to attack and to do the foregoing, as I said above I will stand up for the Truth and myself, my Constitutional, First Amendment right and duty, freedom of expression and religion. But, Chris, don't get me wrong, you ARE free to YOUR religion too, and to express it as well, just don't continue to try and intimidate me from, and/or silence, my right(s) and/or duty to share mine, and/or continue to perpetrate those law and civil rights violating offenses. I realize Chris is a Canadian, but these inalienable rights, and the responsibility for violations thereof, apply to all, which no doubt he and/or somebody else will twist around and throw back in my face. So be it; but if you do, expect a legal, complete and/or proper defense from this quarter. I take nothing but legal and non-violent actions for violations of civil rights and/or other laws, and I will.

On your last reply/comment, I stand corrected.


Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 2:45 am
I agree that the separation of church and state were discussed for a very good reason. Too much devisiveness. Too many personal interpretation(sp) of any written religion and that includes the Bible.
Thats why I never mix the two.

Just basic kindness and working for the common good for ALL.

Seven Philosophies For a Native American Man

First Philosophy - TO THE WOMEN

The cycle of life for the woman is the baby, girl, woman, and grandmother.
These are the four directions of life.
She has been given by natural laws the ability to reproduce life. The most sacred of all things in life.
Therefore, all men should treat her with dignity and respect.
Never was it our way to harm her mentally or physically. Indian men were never abusers. We always treated our women with respect and understanding.
So, from now on,
I will treat women in a sacred manner.
The Creator gave women the responsibility for bringing new life into the world. Life is sacred, so I will look upon women in a sacred manner.
In our traditional ways, the woman is the foundation of the family.
I will work with her to create a home atmosphere of respect, security and harmony.
I will refrain from any form of emotional or physical abuse.
If I have these feelings, I will talk to the Creator for guidance.
I will treat all women as if they were my own female relatives.
This I vow.

Second Philosophy - TO THE CHILDREN

As an eagle prepares its young to leave the nest with all the skills and knowledge it needs to participate in life, in the same manner so I will guide my children.
I will use the culture to prepare them for life.
The most important thing I can give to my children is my time.
I will spend time with them in order to learn them and to listen to them.
I will teach my children to pray, as well as the importance of respect.
We are the caretakers of the children for the Creator. They are his children, not ours.
I am proud of our Native language. I will learn it if I can and help my children to learn it.
In today’s world it is easy for the children to go astray, so I will work to provide positive alternatives for them.
I will teach them the culture.
I will encourage education. I will encourage sports. I will encourage them to talk with the Elders for guidance; but mostly, I will seek to be a role model myself.
I make this commitment to my children so they will have courage and find guidance through traditional ways.

Third Philosophy - TO THE FAMILY

The Creator gave to us the family, which is the place where all teachings are handed down from the grandparent, to the parent, and to the child. The children’s behavior is a mirror of the parent’s behavior. Knowing this, I realize the importance for each Indian man to be responsible to the family in order to fulfill the need to build a strong and balanced family. By doing this, I will break the cycle of hurt and ensure the positive mental health of our children, even the children yet to be born.
So, from now on,
I will dedicate my priorities to rebuilding my family.
I must never give up and leave my family only to the mother.
I am accountable to restore the strength of my family. To do this, I will nurture our family’s spiritual, cultural and social health. I will demonstrate trust, respect, honor and discipline; but mostly I will be consistent in whatever I do with them.
I will see that the grandparents and community Elders play a significant role in the education of my children.
I realize that the male and female together are fundamental to our family life. I will listen to my mate’s council for our family’s benefit, as well as for the benefit of my Indian Nation.

Fourth Philosophy - TO THE COMMUNITY

The Indian community provides many things for the family. The most important is the sense of belonging; that is, to belong to “the people”, and to have a place to go. Our Indian communities need to be restored to health so the future generation will be guaranteed a place to go for culture, language and Indian socializing. In he community, the honor of one is the honor of all and the pain of one is the pain of all. I will work to strengthen recovery in all parts of my community.
As an Indian man,
I will give back to my community by donating my time and talents when I am able.
I will cultivate friendships with other Indian men for mutual support and strength.
I will consider the effects of our decisions on behalf of the next seven generations; in this way, our children and grandchildren will inherit healthy communities.
I will care about those in my community so that the mind changes, alcohol and drugs, will vanish, and our communities will forever be free of violence.
If each of us can do all these things, then others, will follow; ours will be a proud community.

Fifth Philosophy - THE EARTH

Our Mother Earth is the source of all life, whether it be plants, the two-legged, four-legged, winged ones or human beings. The Mother Earth is the greatest teacher, if we listen, observe and respect her. When we live in harmony with the Mother Earth, she will recycle the things we consume and make them available to our children. As an Indian man, I must teach my children how to care for the Earth so it is there for the future generations.
So from now on,
I realize the Earth is our Mother. I will treat her with honor and respect.
I will honor the interconnectedness of all things and all forms of life.
I will realize the Earth does not belong to us, but that we belong to the Earth.
The natural law is the ultimate authority upon the lands and water. I will learn the knowledge and wisdom of the natural laws. I will pass this knowledge on to my children.
The Mother Earth is a living entity that maintains life. I will speak out in a good way whenever I see someone abusing the Earth. Just as I would protect my own mother, so I will protect the Earth. I will ensure that the land, water, and air will be intact for my children and for my children’s children-the unborn.

Sixth Philosophy - TO THE CREATOR

As an Indian man, I realize we make no gains without the Great Spirit being in our lives. Neither I, nor anything I attempt to do, will work without our Creator. Being Indian and being spiritual has the same meaning. Spirituality is our gift from the Great One. This say, I vow to walk the Red Road.
As an Indian man,
I will return to the traditional and spiritual values which have guided my ancestors for the past generations.
I will look with new eyes on the powers of our ceremonies and religious ways, for they are important to the very survival of our people.
We have survived and are going to grow and flourish spiritually. We will fulfill our teachings and the purpose that the Creator has given us with dignity.
Each day, I will pray and ask guidance. I will commit to walk the Red Road, or whatever the spiritual way is called in my own culture.
If I am a Christian, I will be a good one. If I tradition, I will walk this road with dedication.
If each of us can do these things then others will follow. From this day forward, I will reserve time and energy for spirituality, seeking to know the Creator’s will.

Seventh Philosophy - TO MYSELF

I will think about what kind of person I want to be when I am an Elder. I will start developing myself now to be this person.
I will walk with the Great Spirit and the grandfathers at my side. I will develop myself to remain positive. I will develop a good mind.
I will examine myself daily to see what I did good and what I need to improve. I will examine my strengths and weaknesses; then I will ask the Creator to guide me. I will develop a good mind.
Each day, I will listen for the Creator’s voice in the wind. I will watch nature and ask to be shown a lesson which will occur on my path.
I will seek our the guiding principles which guided my ancestors. I will walk in dignity, honor and humility, conducting myself as a warrior.
I will seek the guidance of the Elders so that I may maintain the knowledge of culture, ceremonies and songs, and so that I may pass these on to future generations.
I choose to do all these things myself, because no one else can do them for me.
I know I CANNOT GIVE AWAY WHAT I DON’T HAVE, so I will need to learn to walk the talk.

© 1996 by White Bison Inc.
Re-printed with permission

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 2:48 am

It doesn't interest me what you do for a living.
I want to know what you ache for, and if you dare to dream of
meeting your heart's longing.

It doesn't interest me how old you are.
I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool for love, for your dream,
for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon.
I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have
been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear
of further pain! I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without
moving to hide it or fade it, or fix it. I want to know if you can be with joy,
mine or your own, if you can dance with wildness and let the ecstasy fill you
to the tips of your fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful,
to be realistic, to remember the limitations of being human.

It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me is true.
I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself; if you can
bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul; if you can be
faithless and therefore trustworthy.
I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day, and
if you can source your own life from its presence.
I want to know if you can live with failure, yours and mine, and still stand on
the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the full moon, "Yes!"

It doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you have.
I want to know if you can get up, after the night of grief and despair, weary and
bruised to the bone, and do what needs to be done to feed the children.

It doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here.
I want to know if you will stand in the center of the fire with me
and not shrink back.

It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom you have studied.
I want to know what sustains you, from the inside, when all else falls away.

I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you truly like
the company you keep in the empty moments.

by Oriah Mountain Dreamer
copyright © 1999 by Oriah Mountain Dreamer

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 3:20 am

Wolfweeps, the subjects of religion and politics are inseparable. Why do you think, rhetorically speaking, that freedom of religion is given just as much importance as freedom of speech, expression, protest, dissent, and seeking redress of grievances from the government in the First Amendment of the Constitution, and Article One of the Bill of Rights? The only way that we should keep them separate is in our actual political machinations or "governing"; which, as you know, is called "separation of church and state", and is also spelled out in the same place(s), the same Bill of Rights Article and Constitutional Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

This has generally, for a long time, been applied to all branches of the U.S. government, not just the Legislative; but we have gotten so far away from that, such that the Supreme Court makes laws that the Congress does not have to ratify or recognize in writing, and/or directly making a law recognizing or ratifying completely Constitutional rulings of the Judicial Branch; and it has become too much of a "legal" practice to recognize all written U.S. laws to be incorporated into the laws of all Branches automatically. This has been part of the downfall of the U.S.

But we should openly discuss and lustilly debate both politics and religion, as long as we can do so without evil arguing. The old saying that we should never "argue", or discuss, religion and politics is completely false; and it is partly because of that belief and common practice, that far too many Americans have extreme misconceptions, and brainwashing, about what American politics is and is not supposed to be about; or they listen only to the ignorant misconceptions of others about it, and parrot them. We need to educate ourselves with the debate(s) that have been carried out by our founders and others before us, and of some people contemporary to us, and ever be vigilant against parroting the ignorant political misconceptions of others. The same goes for religion.


Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 3:37 am

North American Indian spiritual beliefs, and most Eastern ones, are full of many misconceptions. Because the people who devised them made far too many assumptions based on everything supposedly being connected to the natural world; i.e./e.g., that women are allegedly supposed to be treated as goddesses because they carry out childbirth and help perpetuate humankind. That is extremely false. Yes, down with all abuse of women, but women were "saddled" with childbirth because of committing the first sins, or evil(s), when Eve fell for, believed and followed the lies of Lucifer, and then tempted her husband, Adam, to do likewise. (Genesis 3:16-19.)


Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 3:44 am

P.S. to Chris---I should have been more clear above: I do NOT claim to be a Christian AT ALL, either false or True, and I am NEITHER.


Chris B (9)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 3:58 am
A sheep in Wolf's clothing!

Chris B (9)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 4:55 am
I submit this link for everyone's perusal. It seems to be more akin to the topic of this forum, than a pointless argument concerning religious beliefs that cannot be resolved, through accusations and heated threats! Religion has done enough damage. The real predators would wallow in this distraction. This 17 minute video kind of sums up the illuminati intention and although I personally don't agree with all of it, it offers enlightening information regarding the current state of affairs. Please accept it in the light it is offered in. Peace to ALL!

Chris B (9)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 6:45 am
nice post Wolfweeps...very nice. Thank you!

Chris B (9)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 6:58 am
"Bu t you say so many slanderous, defaming, civil-rights-violating things, you will probably not be able to control yourself from continuing to do so. Let's see, I'm supposedly 1.) "self-absorbed", 2.) responsible for the evils counterfeit Christianity has perpetrated "for the past 2,000 years", 3.) with a "fear agenda", 4.) "brainwashed", 5.) of a "haughty demeanor", 6.) a "decid(er of) who is in the good books of our Maker", 7.) without "free will", 8.) feeling "helpless", 9.) without "love", and 10.) "living in... fear". NONE of those things is true WHATSOEVER, and are ALL COMPLETELY false, therefore they are ALL slander, defamation of character, and i llegal. So please stop the harassment, ALL of those other violations of my civil rights, and any and all other illegality that you will no doubt be tempted to further carry out against me.." Are you retarded? Because I disagree with your theories, I am violating your civil rights? Seriously???!! This duck floats. This wood floats. Therefore, this duck is made of wood ! LMAO

Chris B (9)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 7:40 am
Cynthia Hanna said " There is only one God - no matter your beliefs, your nation, your gender. Separation is an illusion that humanity has been taught and willingly bought into! Belief in a petty, angry, authoritarian God who gives gifts (such as free will!) with one hand, and punishes the use of those gifts with the other is why we live in a petty, angry, authoritarian world!"

I totally agree with you, by that I mean, I totally agree with you! Love and Peace!

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 7:44 am
I just hope to God that in addition to all this bickering amongst yourselves, that the focus remains on our survival and planning. While this goes on the sicko element still have the upper hand. The best way forward is
to be pro-active. Get the message out to the people and get organised. Your time is limited and what is left of
your freedom is soon to be cut off.

If killing off a few thousand people in a morning teabreak is not a problem, then who do you think you are dealing with here, a kidergarten employee with a bad attitude ? Gheeez....wake up and dont just smell the coffee, smell the rotting flesh of the millions of dead bodies lying around all over the world. If you believe that
Charlie H. is a bit too radical at this stage then think again. You could wake up in the morning with millitary personnel swarming around in your home. I hope to God it will not get to that but if you dont act now it will be happening sometime soon. How much more convinsing do you need, another 9\11 type tragedy ?

Chris B (9)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 8:03 am
Richard T. thank you for your post this morning. I would like to bring to your attention the current plight of Ed & Elaine Brown who are being unjustly persecuted in the name of a non-existent law enforced by the IRS.

This beautiful New Hampshire, American couple have been prosecuted for income tax evasion and in a mock trial found guity. You can find out more about their current status at or by visiting Their property is being invaded by Blackwater Special ops forces. They are experiencing gunfire on their property and observers and friends are attepting to garner support in the hopes of avoiding another Waco, while most importantly saving these innocent people's lives.

Those of you living in the United States are better positioned to offer direct support, which they have humbly requested at this point. This situation has reached critical mass and I mention it in the hope that some will respond with whatever you feel you can offer by means of physical and spiritual support. Maybe this situation is old news to some of you, as it has been ongoing for months, but the media has never had it on the front burner and as of late, has chosen to ignore it.

Blessings and Peace to Ed & Elaine, two American heroes. May they be delivered safely!

Chris B (9)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 8:13 am
Tired of stifled and biased media? Go to You Tube and subscribe to: THE REAL NEWS. This channel offers non corporate owned, independent news from all over the globe with truth and free speech as their format.
If you would like to offer support as a member, contributor or finacial supporter, options are available to do that as well by going to

Blessings, Peace and Truth to all who seek it!

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 10:44 am

To quote an expression, or part of one, "the last thing I am is a..." sheep. I am a lamb in wolves' clothing. But at least you didn't try to call me a wolf in sheep's clothing. For that I am grateful, because it would be the furthest thing from the truth, as my allegedly being a "sheep" is. I put my liberty and life on the line every day, as much I am able with three very serious autoimmune diseases, for the real "truth, justice and the American way" that Richard is very right is being completely taken away very rapidly, making squabling a waste of energy that we should be devoting to waking people up and standing up en masse against that insanity.

If you care to stop denegrating me and find out who the real Wolf Britain is (my legal, real name), please go to my main blog and the following particular letter I wrote, as well as the latest article I wrote and updated. If then you are still tempted to continue to attack me and my character, please put it where the sun don't shine, and spare me and all of us from any further of same. If I'm wrong forgive me, but I'll bet you're not putting your life and liberty on the line to the extent I have. Perhaps you would like to help the gestapo "authorities" condemn me and silence my voice for nothing but non-violence, anti-violence, True Freedom, True Peace, etc.?

In short, the first following letter shows that I have already been harassed by the gestapo (have you?), and the second shows that I don't bow down to any of the police state, prison planet, corporate-neo-communist-theocratic-fascist b.s. that these psychopathic, insane people are foisting on us in leaps and bounds right now. I will NEVER bow down to it. When they come to me trying to enforce the National I.D. and then the Mark of the Beast on me, I guess I will be taken to the internment camps, and/or probably be murdered, because I will NOT cooperate with ANY of that evil, while most people will cave in to it and sell their souls to the devil. Here are my blog postings:


Chris B (9)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 11:35 am
Wolf Britain- Get something clear sir! I have no wish to do you harm, nor act in any way to have harm done to you. I haven't been to your suggested sites, but I will go at your request. I was under the impression that we were having a healthy disagreement over personal spiritual beliefs. It is not in my heart to inflict harm on anybody, as that is neither my intention nor a part of my nature.

The last thing anyone needs right now is to have their voice silenced. In my humble opinion, we need just the opposite. Perhaps you miscontrued that, that was my intent. It never was and is not! But I won't be silenced easily either.

This all began, because I commented on the attitudes of those believing we are in the end times and I took issue with that and still do. We have had enough humiliation and defamation and lies. Nothing makes my blood boil more than anyone espousing conjecture as the truth and attempting to remove or subvert our power. If the New World Order (illuminati) have their way, then we are in an end time of sorts, but I will not go quietly and will struggle vehemently if necessary, to avoid that. I don't believe we can lose because we have truth and right on our side. That is more powerful than any plot or plan to enslave us, which is becoming more exposed every day. If there is an end time, it is for them, that would seek to disallow our remaining freedom and control us to their own ends. Am I paranoic? Maybe a little, but who can blame me? A little paranoia is a good thing right? Or maybe they are still watching me?

I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt. It is easy to forget that we are on the same side and I should have been a little more considerate of what obviously is a sensitive issue for you. I pledge to support anyone, as best I can, especially in times like these. At times I will disagree, but never to silence, only to voice my opinion and offer an alternative if I can offer one.

If there is a devil, it is the current evil governments that have taken control of our continent. Secrecy and mistrust, clandestine plans and black ops... I'm sick of it all, just like everybody here on this forum. I want these officials to do what they were hired to do or stay the hell home and we'll get someone who can do it.

Don't count me out, but don't count on me to participate in false prophecies either. Just like everone who is realizing what we are up against, I intend to fight back in every way to the end of MY time.

I want my son to have a planet to raise his son on, and not be controlled by purveyors of false beliefs and dogmas. Nor do I wish to have any of my friends imprisoned or killed for their political views. I want to live to see the traitors that would sell us out, get what is REALLY coming to them and have the oppression and evil stopped. It will be! I believe it and I will struggle for it to my last breath.

Although we diagree on a few fundamental issues, from what you have told me here, we have far more in common than you know right now. Peace!

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 11:58 am

My feelings aren't hurt in the least.... Here is a comment I just made in the following thread:

"Amen, ladies and gentlemen! The real, and/or worst, terrorists have take over the U.S. and other governments, and are being lauded and treated like gods! They are literally representatives of the worst evil that there is, and worship it and its ways themselves! They are Luciferian, Illuminati sickos and Americans and others have let them take over everything! And people say we aren't in the "end times"! Oh, yes, it can and will get much worse than it is so far, but we are very rapidly facing more and more of the final events, and the bodies are being piled up in droves! Again, we ain't seen nothin' yet! Get ready! The "ride" is going to be literally hellish! Are you prepared to die for the truth? Because, if you aren't, you too will bow down to these sickos and accept their National I.D.(s), and then "Beast Mark", at which point your souls' will be sold out irreparably to the devil! "....People get ready...." (as the song goes)! The ONLY One who can give us the strength to withstand the temptation(s) to cave in and bow down to these evils, is God the Father, His Son Jesus the Christ, and the Holy Spirit (John 14:6)! If we don't have the character of Jesus the Christ infilling our hearts and minds, we will either surrender to evil or die false martyrs! Be ready and be True martyrs ONLY!

"You aren't paranoid, Carolyn (and Chris, etc./et al.)! And I don't think most of these "commenters" here in any way think you are! If you are supposedly paranoid, you are "justifiably paranoid"; for there is, after all, such a thing! When we see such Hitlerian, dictatorial, extremely evil insanity taking over, and especially when it effects us personally as it has me, it only naturally makes us justifiably paranoid, because then you have very good reason(s) to watch your back! These neo-Nazi-fascist sickos give it to us, and now they are doing so in droves, or leaps and bounds as well! How's the old saying go? 'It's not paranoia if they really are after you'? They ARE after us, so what those of us who are True, and/or closer to being Fully True, feel is only natural and COMPLETELY justified! So, don't let it make you dysfunctional as they hope it will do! As Graham Nash sang with C.S.N. (& Y.?), "....Don't let it get you down, it's only castles burning (and with a little poetic license), just find (those who are) yearning (for 100% Truth, True Freedom, True Liberty, True Love, and True Peace, etc.), and you will come around...." and have fulfilled your duty(ies), responsibility(ies) and obligation(s) to wake them up and to get them to stand with us en masse against all of this insane "(ivory) castle burning" [( or is that "ivory tower" burning :) ---at least it is bringing us out of our fantasy worlds' to realize, and hopefully completely face and stand up against, all of what is really going on]!"


Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 1:15 pm


For those who don't know, C.S.N., and sometimes Y. as well, means Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young: David Crosby, Stephen Stills, Graham Nash, and sometimes Neil Young.

Only TRUE Peace,



Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 3:01 pm
Chris B. Thanx for the info on Ed & Elaine Brown. They are getting good support but i must however proudly sate that here in SA, if a similar type situation should present itself, the norm is to have people bussed in so as to cope with the numbers on a daily basis. We can really teach you guys about guts, determination and support. And to prove it, we are, and have more freedom than you guys have. We defeated a brutal regime because even the children took on the might of the police and defence force in great numbers. As the front-runners got mowed down they were replaced by those behind them. Surging foreward, they kept going until the government forces retreated. They were victorious in every battle. I witnessed it, i was there.

Our past history is a clear indication that one has to confront force with an equal share of resistance, to be free from oppression and authorotarian rule. In SA, the bushco gang would have been out of office by now. Our thoughts are with you, may your decisions and actions be guided by strength and great wisdom.

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 3:12 pm
Another URL that should interest some people needing confirmation on the deception the USA citizens are subjected to and the lack of concern towards their lives and that of many others in the world.

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Sunday August 12, 2007, 11:03 pm
I leave this in saying that to thrre is a separation. That is why I walk away from this discussion knowing full well that to pound someone over the head with a piece of written material "not" written by the hand of "God" still comes under the term of "might makes right", which has been true through every war every fought and one at the expence of another culture. And most assuredly the United States did conquer the Ntive Americans by "might makes right" actions.
As I have said, I do not mix religion and politics for this exact reason. Your own opinion that the Native American belief system is false becasue your interpretation of such.
Until everyone can learn to respect each others faith for what it is, there will be no meeting of the minds.
That meeting of the minds is "RESPECT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL'S FAITH AND CULTURE WHICH IS LINKED WITH WHO THEY ARE". You cannot separate the two two without placing YOUR belief systems over anothers because you believe you are right. Hence nothing will ever be resolved.
We live in nature. We are here because of nature, and without it we do not exist. It dies, we die. Not and argument, but a statement of fact. And that is why the United States never included, nor ever made an effort to include the Native American peoples in this government. And last but not least, Native American Spiritualism does NOT mean being a Native American, but rather a belief system older than you know. Before you slam it, put the Christiian God hand written words in front of me to prove to me that it is an assumption, misconception and extremely false. It most certainly is "NOT" because you say it is so.

Enough said on my part for I make a choice not to argue anymore about its separation from government.
I wish you well in your endeavors, for without mutual respect for all nothing can be accomplished for the "COMMON GOOD" for "ALL".
Walk in beauty, for it shall follow you in kind.


Past Member (0)
Monday August 13, 2007, 6:41 am

That's one of my main points, Wolfweeps, there CANNOT be a meeting of the minds, or unity, on certain things, like many religious and/or spiritual beliefs. Oh, there will be, like you want, but it will be, as I said, a uniting of a bunch of disparite belief systems that don't belong together at all, such as Catholicism and Protest-antism (a break-away from the evils of Catholicism, or what was a break-away at one time anyway), and Christianity and Satanism, etc. You see, you are believing the lie(s), like most people, that we all have to come together in unity on spiritual beliefs; but some are true and some are false, and therefore the false and true don't mix. If you think the true will "purify" the false, you've got another thing coming. It will have the exact opposite effect, with the "evil yeast" leavening the whole bunch and corrupting the true.

Please don't get me wrong, as I think I've told you, I have a great deal of respect for Native Americans, especially their respect for the environment and keeping a balance; but where their spiritual beliefs go wrong is that they worship nature rather than nature's Creator, Jesus the Christ. Protestants can have a kind of "respect" for Catholics, by respecting their right(s) to worship as they please, etc., but that doesn't mean there has to be a uniting of the two of them, because there are many things about each spiritual belief system that cannot be reconciled; and, if one is sticking by 100% Truth, rather than a mixture of Truth and evil, or falsehood, one would not want to reconcile them, because there are many falsehoods and contradictions of Truth in Catholicism. Christianity and paganism, like oil and water, do NOT go together.

Thus, worship of nature cannot be reconciled with Christianity either, and we should not want them to be reconciled, or try to reconcile them, with one another. Respect for eachothers' beliefs and rights to them, yes, but there cannot at all rightly be a uniting of them. It is evil that wants to join all of the religions and peoples together in a false, evil union, or "one-world religion" and government. The One and Only True God does NOT want that union of evil and good in any way, shape or form whatsoever. Evil and Good cannot be joined together; for, when they are, mostly if not total evil results. As I've also said, when that "uniting" does take place, it WILL appear to be the good and right thing to be done, but it will be the furthest thing from right and good, and will deceive most people into bowing down to Lucifer and the anti-christ as their god(s).

That is why I say, "Only TRUE Peace", because True Peace is ONLY found through the Prince of Peace, Jesus the Christ (once more, John 14:6); and, to be Truly and completely right with God, we must only worship God, not God's creation(s), creatures, inanimate objects, non-existant gods, etc. Contrary to Cynthia Hanna's profile pic, all gods are NOT one god! As much as spiritualists don't want to believe it, there IS a true and right, and a false and wrong, that do NOT go together AT ALL! The One and Only True God wants to lead us OUT of that false unity, NOT into it; and that power leading into it, has nothing whatsoever to do with God!


Marguerite snow (22)
Monday August 13, 2007, 7:20 am
Chris B
Where is all this negativity about Christians coming from? You seem so angery, maybe you are listening to the wrong people I am praying for you.
And just for the record I am not laying down letting anyone brainwash me.
Not my style or nature.

Chris B (9)
Monday August 13, 2007, 7:59 am
If you have to ask, you have your eyes wide shut! Rest assured, I am not listening to the "wrong" people. Give up this end times nonsense and take responsibilty. If you consider me angry, you've missed the point. Get back to the initial topic. I'm not here to discuss religion! Concentrate on solutions, not self defeating religious philosophy that has not served humanity in any positive respect. Respect... now there's a word. If anybody even seems to disagree with christian philosophy, christians are the ones who bring out the negativity, affixing labels to any opinion such as "wrong", "negative" and top it off by saying you'll pray for us, because we disagree? So, where do you stand with this Bush issue?

Past Member (0)
Monday August 13, 2007, 9:52 am

Marguerite, I'm just guessing, but Chris either had counterfeit "Christianity" shoved down his throat when he was younger, and/or he's disgusted with the 99% hypocrisy of counterfeit "Christianity". Either way, who could blame him? Many, far too many, people are going to be held accountable for driving people away from True Christianity with all of their hypocrisy. Remember King Agrippa said, "....Almost you convince me to become a Christian...."? Gandhi even came close to becoming a Christian but was so turned off by the hypocrisy(ies) of the majority counterfeit "Christianity", that he did not.

Even my favorite author, poet, artist, and painter, Hermann Hesse, the great German author of famous books like "Steppenwolf", "Siddhartha", "Demien", "Narcissus and Goldmund", "Beneath the Wheel", etc., was so turned off by the hypocrisy of counterfeit "Christianity" that he too never became one. Yet two out of three of the people I named in the foregoing, and no doubt countless others, were very good people, and people of truth and justice. Thank God in a sense that they did not join "Christianity", because more than likely they would have become hypocrites too; so thank God as well that they were the great non-hypocrites they were!

As far as our discussing religion in this "political" thread and supposedly being off-topic, it's all interconnected. Particularly what's happening right now, whether you believe in "end time" philosophy or not. In other words, religion is all tied up in what these globalists are more and more foisting on us, and it ain't pretty at all; so, again, who could blame people like Chris for being completely turned off by the totally false representation of "Christianity", and about other religions as well, which are all full of hypocrisy. I just hope and pray most people like Chris don't let counterfeit "Christianity" succeed in turning them away from True Christianity!


One Love (130)
Monday August 13, 2007, 9:59 am
It's time to get back on topic.

If you really want to understand the New World Order, watch this, if you dare. Please Note, Comment and Forward.

Marguerite snow (22)
Monday August 13, 2007, 10:35 am
Wolf thanks I agree with you and yes there are a lot of people who say they are Christian they talk the talk but don't walk the walk,

Chris B (9)
Monday August 13, 2007, 8:32 pm
Well ya know... there are a lot of Americans who say they are worried about their country too, but when they have the opportunity to comment on a thread like this, they'd rather sit at their little keyboards and debate who is Christian and who is not, amd who's going to be saved and who isn't, and how can that person believe such a thing, and oh, you're so blasphemous.

It's enough to make anyone sick. Your country is being taken from you more and more on a daily basis and all you can do is sit there and talk about how it relates to a Bible verse? You should be ashamed of yourselves.. really! "Oh, Chris you sound really angrt, I'kk pray for you.eeeewwwwww

PRAY FOR YOURSELF as you watch history repeat Nazism right in your own capital. Your cell phones are tapped. The president is sending your youth to be killed overseas! Your rights are disappearing. You can be arrested and held without charges, just suspicion, under the Patriot Act your media is bought and paid for and MORE....WAY MORE!!!

There are people who are brave and doing something., who are speaking and acting out. People like Alex Jones who is on the radio from Austin, Texas 6 days a week exposing Nazis like the Bushes for what they really are, how habeas corpus has been removed from your constitution and you sit there and pat each other on the back for being more Christian than the next.

Excuse me I have to go and vomit!

Past Member (0)
Monday August 13, 2007, 10:57 pm
Ahmen brother Chris, ahmen...... And now, may you all ponder about how much nicer the war will be if we could all be believers of any religious faith. What a pleasure, let us plan ahead for this re-awakening and serve coffee and doughnuts to our visitors.

Hey...... wait up for me there chris......

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Monday August 13, 2007, 11:45 pm

Past Member (0)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 6:19 am

You know, Chris, Marguerite hardly said anything, and nothing of a "Christian-indoctrinational" nature. We had allegedly, according to you, resolved this issue; and, in my last comment concerning you, I did not attack you but defended you; now you are "going off" again in a hateful rant against Christianity and Christians, anything but unifying as you supposedly so much believe in. Then, of course, you get other anti-Christians to praise your anti-religious-freedom hatred; and THAT makes ME want to go and vomit. You are a hypocrite; and you are not simply "disagreeing" as you vehemently claim, you are denegrating freedom of religion.

Chris, you really need to go read the First Amendment again, and/or your Canadian version of it, and rediscover that freedom of religion is equally as important therein and thereout as freedom of speech. Also, one of your "idols", Alex Jones, claims to be a Christian, but you don't seem to have a problem with that, even though and/or because he is a hypocrite and constantly espouses the opposite of Jesus the Christ, hatred and the promotion of violence. Oh, I know the, and his, rationalizations for it, so please spare me from having to hear them again. We already know how vehement you can get, so you don't have to prove it to us yet again.

In addition, you are clearly full of hate, if not promotion of violence as well, like Alex Jones. Those who truly understand True Christianity tend to not go around "counting their works", therefore we don't advertise and/or brag about what we are doing in the cause to try and save the United States, whereas Alex Jones is constantly "me, me, me'ing", and "I do this, and I do that", as well as constantly ego-tripping about all of the "great works" he does (he's on an absolutely HUGE ego trip), all of which tends to greatly undermine the good cause he claims to represent, and attract more and more haters and violent people who love such evil.

I'm not going to "count" my good works, and I don't know what Marguerite does in the cause of attempting to save this country, but I am doing all I can on an extremely low, poverty level disability insurance income that leaves me stranded in my apartment most of the time, and unable to afford to go anywhere. That's all I'll say about that; because, again, I for one, unlike others', am NOT on an ego trip. In fact, I feel so inadequate and like what "little" I do is so insufficient and inconsequential; but what can I do other than do all that I can, and that I am doing, rhetorically-speaking? Perhaps Marguerite is trying to do the same or similar.

Evidently, you think because we don't constantly watch and listen to David Icke, Jordan Maxwell, Alex Jones, etc., and/or read their articles [actually, I do read the Watson brothers' articles constantly, both the good and the bad ones---lately they seem to be getting worse and worse in (re)presentation of the truth], that we supposedly don't know just how bad things are getting, how evil our enemies are, and the extreme threat that this country and the entire world are under. Again, I can't speak for Marguerite, but I know all of those things, in detail, more than most, and I constantly put out that warning as you do.

I have watched David Icke videos, and he so contradicts God and True Christianity, and so espouses the workings of evil, that my Biblical discernment told and tells me that he is still being used by the Illuminatis lord and master, Lucifer, Satan, the devil that he claims to be fighting against and revealing the workings of to supposedly get us to stand up against it; so I did not, as you falsely claimed earlier, come to a judgment concerning him without familiarizing myself with what he espouses. I also listened to Alex Jones every day, "religiously", for many months, until I couldn't stand any more of his rantings of hate, ego, violence-mongering, and hypocrisy.

So, please, stop attacking people, and those who believe in Christianity. It's okay to be angry, but direct it, without violence and/or any hate, towards our enemies, not those who are commenting here who are NOT your enemies unless you make us so. You have made it ABUNDANTLY clear that you hate Christianity and "Christians". We got that. So you don't need to keep convincing us of that. You get on us for sitting here and commenting so much, but you comment here quite a bit also, so why aren't you using that time to help save Canada as well; for, as you know, its freedoms and rights are being destroyed too?

Espousing here a "Canadians are (supposedly) superior" attitude, and/or "unbelievers, non-Christians and/or anti-Christians are supposedly superior" attitude, attacking Christianity and believers in it, and putting believers in Christianity down, is NOT helping ANY cause. Earlier you claimed to offer the "fig-leaf" of peace, and to have ceased feeling it necessary to any longer attack, libel, slander, and defame, etc., yet now you have contradicted that and started in on it again; so, rhetorically-speaking once more, instead of continuing this trend, why don't you direct your unrighteous indignation into righteous indignation against the true enemies of rights and liberties both foreign and domestic?


Chris B (9)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 6:01 pm
People can read your shallow comments you know? If attacking me feels good to you go right ahead. On 2 separate occasions I've asked both of you (Wolf B and Marguerite) bible heads to address the issue of this thread, with direct questions, but there you go again. On time and off topic! I'm on to another thread where I don't have to deal with the Inquisition.

Now you're onto me for being Canadian. Maybe if I was a Southern Baptist or a Roman Catholic my opinion would have some merit. Wait until they come knocking on your door and then maybe you'll address the issue instead of attacking me. Seems like you'll never be okay with any examples I give of people making a difference, you'll just attack them as well and then have the audacity to analyze me while still promoting your religiousity. I tried being diplomatic, but you will have none of that. So be it! Read my orginal post!

When do these end times start again? Not before I can make a sandwich I hope!


Past Member (0)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 7:09 pm
Well, we are winning due to prayers or action, or both. Have a look here at this URL. So if you prayed for
it, pray harder. If because of your actions, act harder. I appeciate both methods although i must admit to not praying.

Carol W (119)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 7:20 pm

The whole system that we live in
drills into us that were powerless,
that were weak,
that our society is evil,
that it is fragmented, etc. and so forth
It s all a big fat lie
we are powerful ,beautiful , extraordinary

There is no reason why we can not understand who we truly are
Where we are going

There is no reason that why the average individual can’t be fully empowered
We are incredibly powerful beings


Past Member (0)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 7:26 pm

I did NOT attack you, you loon and bully; but I'm sick and tired of YOUR hatefulness and attacks, that's for sure! I called you on your bullpucky, and you can't handle it. You're evidently not someone who faces himself and admits when he's wrong, very easily anyway. I guess in your warped mind it's supposedly okay for you to start in AGAIN attacking and tearing "Christians" and Christianity down, that's supposedly not off-topic, and we're just supposed to take it without standing up against it. Poppycock! Jesus stood up to evil, Godless, God-hating, and Christian-attacking people all the time! But it is YOU who has been dealing out the "inquisition"!

Dear God, help me, you don't even understand English, Chris; or you're doing as you did before and intentionally misunderstanding and/or twisting around what I said! What part of "and/or" do you not understand?! It means that one or more of a list of facts and/or possibilities in a sentence or list are either definitely true or MAY be true. I was NOT saying you're *definitely* putting across a "Canadians are (supposedly) superior" attitude. What I WAS saying is that IF you are, that doesn't help your or any cause, and in fact makes your cause worse.

If you were Southern Baptist or a Roman Catholic, it wouldn't make a bit of difference with me. The government HAS come knocking on my door! Do you have a failing memory, or what?! I spoke nothing but the truth about some of the list of your examples of those people supposedly making a difference! If someone is making a difference without hypocrisy, I will most-definitely NOT criticize them; but those who are hypocrites like Alex Jones, I will call exactly what they are! But that's rich, you "tried being diplomatic"?! What in your last comment was the least bit diplomatic?!?! None of it, that's how much of it was diplomatic!!!!!

You falsely accused Marguerite and me of several things, and your message was full of sarcasm and nothing but venom, much like Alex Jones often is. That is emblematic of your modus operandi and vindictiveness against Christianity and those who believe in it. You again and again attack; and then, when people like myself defend themselves, you falsely accuse them of attacking. As I've said before to you, that probably fools a lot of people; but it will not fool those who go back and read your comments and see your habitual venomousness, unless of course they hate Christianity too.

So "get real" and stop acting like a fruitcake and tyrant. Everyone has a right to believe however they want as long as it doesn't physically harm anyone else, without being torn down by ANYONE, especially hatefilled, self-righteous "educated fools" like you. If you keep up your hateful idiocy against Christianity, "Christians" and/or me, I will not ignore it, as I've told you before in different words, and I will call your bullpucky exactly what it is as well, just as I have already been doing. But, if you don't start your hateful crap up again, I will not have a word to say to you, except perhaps to agree with you if and/or where I do.


Chris B (9)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 7:42 pm
Hey Richard, thanks for that brasscheck link. Great videos and more real news. The best man, thank you! Your newest link is EXACTLY what the desired outcome should be if we can make it happen. It takes time, but it slows them down when they realize more people are waking up and are on to them. Peace!

Chris B (9)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 7:48 pm
Exactly my point Carol A. EXACTLY!

Past Member (0)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 8:06 pm

(Said in complete facetiousness): Oh, of course, Carol! There are no fascists destroying the Republic of the United States of America, and abrogating all of our rights and freedoms! There is nothing wrong with our society, that's why most "Americans" we talk to about what IS really going on, not only have no idea what we're talking about, they believe the lie(s) that we're insane threats to the country, for simply speaking the truth! Your spiritualistic fantasy world is real, and your avoidance and denial of the truth are okay! We're all good people, including the corporate-neo-"conservative"-communist-theocratic-fascists!.... Yah, right!

Are you ever going to wake up, Carol? It sure doesn't look like it! God help you! And God help all of us if too many "Americans" live in a fantasy world and believe as you do! Very sadly, far too many of them do! If we don't take this country back and save it, very quickly if it isn't already too late, it is people like you that are going to be responsible for our downfall! Please get your head out of your fantasy world sand and help save this country and our world! How can you be a member of the "9/11 Conspiracy ! ! !" C2 Group and still be in avoidance and denial of the truth as you are?!....

Earth to Carol! You inside that shell that claims to be Carol?! If not, or if your head's still in the sand, who are you and what have you done with Carol?! You're still in Kansas, Carol, but many more of us than not are "not in Kansas anymore"!! W-A-K-E U-P, C-A-R-O-L!!


Carol W (119)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 9:39 pm

. What about you unalienable natural rights under God Almighty?

All Americans are feudal tenants on the land, allowed to rent the property they live on as long as the king gets his cut.

What about self-determination? Or, being able to own allodial title to property - meaning that the king cannot take your property for failure to pay a tax - a direct indication that you did not own it to begin with? The king allows you to use the material goods and land. Again, this is financial servitude.

"The ultimate ownership of all property is in the state; individual so-called `ownership' is only by virtue of government, i.e., law, amounting to a mere user; and use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State." Senate Document No. 43, "Contracts payable in Gold" written in 1933.

The king controlled the government by the time the North won the Civil War, through the use of lawyers who called the shots behind the scenes, just as they do now, as well placed subjects in the United States government. This would not have been possible if not for Engla

Carol W (119)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 9:58 pm

How do you stop tyrany?

What Lincoln and Jefferson said about the true American danger was very prophetic.

"All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined could not, by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. Abraham Lincoln

"Our rulers will become corrupt, our people careless... the time for fixing every essential right on a legal basis is [now] while our rulers are honest, and ourselves united. From the conclusion of this war we shall be going downhill. It will not then be necessary to resort every moment to the people for support. They will be forgotten, therefore, and their rights disregarded. They will forget themselves, but in the sole faculty of making money, and will never think of uniting to effect a due respect for their rights. The shackles, therefore, which shall not be knocked off at the conclusion of this war, will remain on us long, will be made heavier and heavier, till our rights shall revive or expire in a convulsion. Thomas Jefferson

Democrats and the Republicans, as you can see there is no difference between the two, plain socialism. They are both leading America to a World government, just as Cornwallis said, and that government will be the British empire or promoted by the British.

Carol W (119)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 10:14 pm

LOL Wolf...
You've never been to Kansas...ha ha ha
You crack me up.

Thats Bush Cheney Country and lots of magnetic ribbons.
ha ha ha so funny for you to say that.
People get in trouble there for putting up signs.

Marian E (152)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 11:17 pm

Past Member (0)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 11:23 pm
Saaaywot Carol....? My God but you are a strange one. You could probably market that stuff you are on.

Ali Hirst (286)
Tuesday August 14, 2007, 11:50 pm
Wizard of OZ this reminds me you are SOOOOOOOOOO right there..

James S (25)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 8:22 am


Carol W (119)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 9:56 am

Great link James, wowzer and thanks for that one.
Richard T the brasscheck Cheney'94 is a real prize!

. Today's Church says they love Jesus, however they will
not realize the error they are committing, which is the strong
delusion Jesus' Word speaks of. Think about it, because the
Church believes they will be raptured out prior to the anti-
Christ coming on the scene and the beginning of the seven year
tribulation; when the anti-Christ presents himself as Christ,
the Church will accept him as Christ since they are still here.

This delusion is supported by the Churches
strong desire to be with Christ, and is based on false doctrine,
made possible by their blind acceptance of what preachers have
told them. However, it is the responsibility of the individual
Christian to search the scriptures. Acts 17:11


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 11:00 am

"Do-do-do, do-do-do...."

The tune to Twilight Zone immediately comes to mind! LOL! I wish I could write "LOL!" in BIG letters here just a little bit smaller than the width of the comments! This is just too funny! Carol must have her computer filled with a collection of quotes that she pretty much copies and pastes at random. But, I gotta say, I agree wholeheartedly with that last, religious, one. That Jefferson quote is very "telling", prophetic and accurate too, and it is certainly true as well that the British "royal" family, and the Illuminati, which is headquartered in England, is behind the overthrow of the U.S., and has been from its inception, in other words for over two hundred years. Jefferson was right, and we are at the "convulsion"!


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 11:30 am
Folks, please tone it down. . .I'm trying to think, , ,I can't hear my satanic rock & roll "music". . .

At the risk of being told to go to hell (by Carol and Wolf, not to mention anyone else), both of you have valid points. The problem is just that you haven't applied the Certs Principle (aka the Shimmer Effect) to the problem.

The Certs Principle: "Certs is a candy mint AND a breath mint."
The Shimmer Effect: "Shimmer is a floor wax AND a dessert topping."

To quote the infinitely wise Rodney King: "Can't we just all get along?"

While we do need this debate that's going on, the real enemy is not at Care2. As was said in the musical "1776", the enemy is "out there", not here.

It's not any member of Care2; every one of us cares about something besides our egos or we wouldn't be here. But it feels that people are going to be personally and unnecessarily hurt unless we apply some self-restraint.

I don't ask either of you to give up any stand or principle; but if I could, I would at least demand that you make a sincere attempt to see each other's point of view. Attempt to understand the reasoning and feel the emotions that lay behind the other's position. Try to recognize the experiences that might have caused it.

I feel that what I'm seein' is getting too personal, and it shouldn't be.

If any of you want a whipping boy to scream at, come cuss me out. Marine Corps life was a vacation from my father; I can hack it. And I'm not running to the host about it.

And believe me, I can scorch anyone's ears insofar as invective or frustration's concerned; I've over half a century of dealing with humans, And I've never gotten anything but pain from 'em.

So calm down. Please. 'kay?

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 11:34 am

But one has to admit that in a strange sort of way, Carol's quotes make some if not a lot of sense; and, for those familiar with U.S. history, what has transpired throughout its existence, and how it relates to what's going on right now, her quotes make even more sense. She just throws them into the mix in a very abrupt, apparently out of context, odd kind of way; but, if one really looks at what she's trying to convey with them, while ignoring their apparently incongruent appearance, they make a lot more sense. It's just, without many of her own words to explain their applicability to the subject(s) at hand, they initially throw one for a loop! Is (one of) Carol's goal to throw us for a loop? Probably!.... Again, LOL!

Her point, or one of her points, may be that we ARE in the "twilight zone", "the outer limits" and/or "one (or many) step(s) beyond" sanity in what is happening in the U.S. and the world right now; and, if so, on that I couldn't agree more! Now, instead of laughing, I want to cry! What is happening is truly of monumental, catastrophic, and extremely heartbreaking proportions! It is so sad, if one truly and fully faces how serious, real and threatening the events that are transpiring right now are, that it boggles the mind and tempts one to either go crazy, dancing or running hysterically from wherever, or to go deep(er and deeper?) into avoidance and denial of the facts. One can understand it, even though we must remember that we CAN'T let ourselves go off the deep end; because, at this time, we HAVE GOT TO keep a straight head now more than ever before! Our survival, not just as a country and world, but individually, depends on it! We've got work to do!


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 12:07 pm

After my last comment, being written while you were posting your's, kind of makes you wish you hadn't jumped the gun, doesn't it, Okami?

In response to your somewhat constructive criticism, first of all, as was one of the points I've made in this context, we CAN'T all "get along". For one thing, NOBODY always gets along. As an example, husbands and wives have fights and then, if they're committed ( not to an insane asylum :) and mature, calm down, hopefully exercise forgiveness, and make up. Next, we CANNOT be in unity on a platform, or foundation, of any serious falsehoods; and FAR TOO MANY people have far to many falsehoods to be combined in unity with those who don't.

Second of all, though I know what you meant ( I think :), we CAN'T calm down. Because things are far too dangerous, threatening, dire, and grave; and we've got to stay "worked up" in order to do the work that needs to be done, NOW! And part of that work is to wake people up. Oftentimes that takes "shaking them up"; and, as Gerry Spence so rightly said as I've quoted and/or linked to before, we HAVE TO debate, sometimes "hotly", to get a lot of us who otherwise wouldn't to think and face just how real and severally catastrophic things ARE becoming right now! There is nothing wrong with that! It is just that we have been "dumbed down" and/or conditioned to remain calm, and "lay down" and let the "tanks roll right over us", when we should be "....mad as hell, and not going to take it anymore...." in order to accomplish en masse, not in complete unity, what we MUST accomplish to save this country and our world!

So, enough of the "can't we all just get along" and "calm down" crap, okay?!


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 1:16 pm
Wolf, I apologize for interrupting your discussion. Shoulda kept my mouth shut. I was married a few decades, too, so I've had my little tiffs. Had more at work. And I've dealt with domestic violence for decades: it's the most dangerous call a policeman can be sent to.

It's just that things started ratting my neurons around, and I believed the frustration all of us feel should be directed at the primary causes of that frustration, rather than each other.

Yes, this entire society has been dumbed down; my type of "calm" is a calm that sees 'BS' as 'BS' without becoming a victim or reflection of it. People have drugs (doesn't matter if they're legal or not) shoved into them for any little reason and empty their minds in a vapid plethora of mass entertainment. They're programmed from birth into narrow little views of reality, and believe what's been crammed into them are the laws of God's own Creation. You need a damn lawyer to do anything more than get a pack of gum because of all the silly lawsuits filed. People get upset over the most empty, mose useless, most valueless things in the world and proclaim their views as "morality" (choke-hack).

Americans are the most frightened, irrational, paranoid and psychotic people in the world, and the last seven years have once again proven this. And it is the culture, the society, as much as the present government at fault, because virtually the whole population went along with anything and everything that GW&Co wanted out of shock and fear. Same as work: people with "problems" are sheep, and don't know how to react in an emergency; and, often, they cause the emergency themselves, wanting "Daddy" or "Mommy" to come set things right.

Even now, with people only starting to wake up, fear still rules.

It's taken over six years for people to START to see some of the crap I saw in the beginning. Think I'm not frustrated? Think I'm not upset? Almost got fired a time or two over it. Damn sure ruffled some feathers high up.

I see destruction coming as much as you do, even if we were to get rid of Bush & Co. There's such a thing as social & cultural inertia, and we've built up a lot of it. I've tried to wake people up myself, in my own way. Every day I see the pure blind stupidity of people who think that "authority" is right.

I'm seein' 911 as our "Reichstag Fire" and the Patriot Act as our "Nuremburg Laws". I'm started to see a few other things as our "Wannsee Conference". Dems haven't done

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 1:16 pm
Wolf, I apologize for interrupting your discussion. Shoulda kept my mouth shut. I was married a few decades, too, so I've had my little tiffs. Had more at work. And I've dealt with domestic violence for decades: it's the most dangerous call a policeman can be sent to.

It's just that things started ratting my neurons around, and I believed the frustration all of us feel should be directed at the primary causes of that frustration, rather than each other.

Yes, this entire society has been dumbed down; my type of "calm" is a calm that sees 'BS' as 'BS' without becoming a victim or reflection of it. People have drugs (doesn't matter if they're legal or not) shoved into them for any little reason and empty their minds in a vapid plethora of mass entertainment. They're programmed from birth into narrow little views of reality, and believe what's been crammed into them are the laws of God's own Creation. You need a damn lawyer to do anything more than get a pack of gum because of all the silly lawsuits filed. People get upset over the most empty, mose useless, most valueless things in the world and proclaim their views as "morality" (choke-hack).

Americans are the most frightened, irrational, paranoid and psychotic people in the world, and the last seven years have once again proven this. And it is the culture, the society, as much as the present government at fault, because virtually the whole population went along with anything and everything that GW&Co wanted out of shock and fear. Same as work: people with "problems" are sheep, and don't know how to react in an emergency; and, often, they cause the emergency themselves, wanting "Daddy" or "Mommy" to come set things right.

Even now, with people only starting to wake up, fear still rules.

It's taken over six years for people to START to see some of the crap I saw in the beginning. Think I'm not frustrated? Think I'm not upset? Almost got fired a time or two over it. Damn sure ruffled some feathers high up.

I see destruction coming as much as you do, even if we were to get rid of Bush & Co. There's such a thing as social & cultural inertia, and we've built up a lot of it. I've tried to wake people up myself, in my own way. Every day I see the pure blind stupidity of people who think that "authority" is right.

I'm seein' 911 as our "Reichstag Fire" and the Patriot Act as our "Nuremburg Laws". I'm started to see a few other things as our "Wannsee Conference". Dems haven't done anything of substance since they got in; baby steps are all they've taken.

People don't give a damn about the Constitution, UNTIL IT'S THEIR TURN to be singled out. They've never read it, or the Declaration, or the Bill of Rights. And they could care less. No one gets money for readin' 'em (except some judges and lawyers), so the mass of people ignore it.

. . .Mind you. . .I do appreciate a good catfight now and then. . .

If I could, I'd find the most remote place I could and never contact a human again. But I can't.

At least I've performed one service I wanted to: deflected some of that rage. And that's cool with me.

So I jumped the gun: big deal. Toldja I screw up. Unlike most people I've known, I don't mind admitting it.

. . .jeez. . .


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 1:19 pm
And I also apologize--to everyone--for the "posted pre-post". . .damn fingers. . .

James S (25)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 1:37 pm


I share you philosophy, eerily.

what struck me the most is your recognition of our narcistic cultural corruption that leaves us with a great share of the blame. It will take "calm", determination, patience and sacrifice to even begin to turn things around in this country. Ending the middle-east invasion will not in itself makes things "normal" again. And I wonder how many of those so concerned have even thought beyond ending that war?

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 2:15 pm

Oh, yah, it's about A WHOLE LOT MORE than just ending the Iraq war, James; and, you're right too, Okami, that far too much inertia has built up, and we've let far too much "go by". We've got to repeal and/or overturn these those "Reichstag", so-called "laws", of which you speak, to start with (I don't think they're EVER going to let us end this so-called "war" that was never declared, that's completely "unCongressional", so to speak, and that is totally unConstitutional); though, since Congress has not really done anything sufficient to repeal those draconian "laws" (because the few who are trying to do something sufficient about it with the right Bills, are being intentionally sidestepped by the majority of soldout NeoLIBS infesting almost the whole place), and the Supremes are so stacked with draconian NeoCON "judges", and/or those who are buckling under the draconian troglodyte's pressure, I don't hold my breath that all of those so-called "laws", especially the "Presidential Directives" and/or "Executive Orders" that Bush has, in particular, signed into so-called "law" since October 17th of last year, are ever going to be done away with as they should be, anymore than the Iraq "war" will ever be ended! I hope to God I'm wrong!


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 3:07 pm

You know what, Okami, I've thought about it awhile, because I didn't want to immediately react before thinking it through, but what was your point in telling me/us that you're a cop? If it's to try and intimidate me, or to try and get me to kiss your backside, it's NOT going to work. I know the neo-Gestapo is going to come pick me up sooner or later, probably sooner, but I am NOT going to bow down to them. Yet, if you're truly a "reformed", "awakened" cop, you'll understand that your admission, as honest and/or well-intended as it may have been, is going to cause me, and others' if they're smart, to not trust you. In my humble opinion, if you were truly an awakened and/or reformed cop, you would HAVE TO completely stop being a cop, because to remain one would violate your conscience, and you would have to "look the other way" far too much when witnessing, making you complicit in, Americans' civil rights being violated constantly; but, correct me if I'm wrong, you made it sound like you are still a cop. If you are "for real" and not still a cop, please forgive me for my distrust and how painful that would have to be for you to always have to deal with such distrust from so many people (completely truthfully, no facetiousness and/or sarcasm intended AT ALL); but, due to your ever having been one, I cannot ever trust you. Most cops are evil criminals who should be locked up for abuse of (their) authority under color of state law(s).

I have had my own civil rights violated far too many times by the vast majority of evil, psychologically-impaired cops, most if not all of which cannot be trusted at all. But, having said the foregoing, I honestly wish they could be trusted, as I know "they are a necessary evil"; and, if even a significant fraction of them were in their positions to truly "protect and serve", rather than to lord it over us, treat us as if we have no God-given and/or natural rights, to attempt to make us treat them, as well as "judges", lawyers, and their masters, like gods, to try to humiliate and intimidate us, to presume virtually everyone guilt in violation of everything this country is supposed to stand for, and to treat most if not all of us like we're supposedly all worthless dirt, and expendable, and not even worthy to come into contact with the heels of their "jackboots", or very-soon-to-be jackboots (AGAIN), I would be one of the first ones' to trust them! Therefore, once again, if you were truly a reformed and/or awakened cop, you will recognize the total truthfulness of this, that it is nothing but facts, and understand my feelings about it, knowing all of it is completely justified. My first couple of run-ins with cops, I still wanted to believe they were mostly good; but, in my last major run-in(s) with them nineteen to twenty-two years ago, I finally learned that most if not all of them are not to be trusted at all, and I won't ever again do so, which they themselves are responsible for, and made sure of.


One Love (130)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 3:15 pm
Police, firefighters, life guards are heros, right along with soldiers. They are tools of this government and doing their job. One has the utmost respect for those that risk their lives for little pay. Like any other group of people, there are some that have gone astray.

We are very lucky to have these people that risk their lives so we can be safe.

Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 3:20 pm
Thanks One Love...on behalf of my own Husband and Family. I come a long line of and married a "cop". Yes they do put their life on the line everyday, and of all the 'copbashers' it always amazes me that when they need one they still ring up for help!!

Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 3:24 pm
Okami....I agree most cops who are killed on duty here, have lost their lives answering a domestic.!!!

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 3:48 pm

This comes from what I have observed, as well as experienced, too: Cops tasering people who weren't even talking back let alone resisting, cops beating up peaceful protestors doing nothing but exercising their Constitutional rights to protest, dissent, etc., my having one of them come into my apartment just a week or two ago when I called them about what I thought was possibly a gas leak and take advantage of the situation to "look around" my apartment, and the list goes on... and on, and on.... Thank God I am NOT still one of the many conditioned, programmed, ignorant people who blindly trusts "the authorities", and that most of whom do! The truth HAS set me free, and that CANNOT be taken away! Thank you, SO MUCH, dearest Lord!

Most people will not understand this until their dignity is violated, and they are verbally and psychological raped, if not worse, which they WILL, very unfortunately, have happen to them soon, unless of course they very wrongly bow down to and serve the totalitarian, militarized police state and prison planet that is very quickly being erected and realized all around them right now! But then, unless they are very stupid, they will truly understand, very sadly the hard way, that the vast majority of "the authorities" are NOT here to help us, but are here to subjugate us, help enslave us, and to keep us enslaved! God have mercy on us all, help us all, wake us all completely up to the truth, set us free, and save us all from "the authorities"!


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 3:52 pm

"One Love", I hope to God you are being sarcastic and/or facetious! Helen, you have awakened part way, now wake all of the way!


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 4:41 pm

Helen, I see it APPEARS you have glommed me in with the "blind copbashers" (my expression), when I am anything but; and when I have made it very clear that I have experienced and/or observed far too much of cops who literally enjoy "bashing" fellow human beings in one way or another, much of it firsthand. There is little or no treating people as "innocent until proven guilty", and with respect, with most of them; and they literally "relish" their demonic "authority" and "control" over people, and treating them like dirt. I can hear you saying, "Well, some of them *are* dirt", but that does NOT, in ANY way(s) justify abusing people! Two wrongs DON'T make one right! You think I'm naive?Think again! I am a realist-idealist. I completely face reality, "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst", and still hold out my best Hope for our world, though that certainly isn't easy! You live in a cloistered little world compared to what has already begun to happen here, have no idea the hell that far too many if not most of the cops have begun to dish out here, and have no idea about what has only just begun!


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 4:58 pm

Helen, do you have "Ruby Ridge's", "Waco's", "Oklahoma City's", and "9-11's" there in Australia!? So far no, thank God, or least not to extent, yet, that we have already had here, thanks also be to God! But you are going to start seeing it there too, and the cops are going to start going mad, if they haven't already! Rights and liberties are more and more becoming a thing of the past, and most of "the authorities" revel in this! Most of them, whether they consciously realize it or not, have been waiting for this day, to most of them, far too long! They have long hated civil liberties and rights, and "gloried" in disrespecting and/or taking away freedoms! Like most people, and as Okami put so well in his last comment, they have little or no concept or understanding of civil rights, nor the desire to learn about them, understand them, and fully admire and respect them! We are going backwards into "Neanderthalism", if we ever really left it!

I truly wish I WAS simply being "pessimistic"!


Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 5:15 pm
Wolf---No with due respect we haven't had 9/11 but we have had close enough in Bali where 88 Aussies lost their lives when our football teams were the target because they were over there on Victory celebrations. Enough is Enough....we have a good Terror protection here also. ..have you noticed the ones we have caught BEFORE they had the chance to become a 9/11 for Australia..Our population is only 20million here so 88 dead is high enough even if they were out of the Country when it happened, there is no denying that Australians were the Targets..And WHY...because we went into Iraq with BUSH. Sad state of affairs when we can't even safely travel overseas without being blown to pieces. And YES before you ask. I choose to holiday in Australia because it is SAFE thus far and also I don't need the extra provisions put on us at the International Airports of what we can and can't carry out of the country...such as shampoo, conditioner, makeup with fluids..the list goes on...

Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 5:19 pm
Oh husbands badge says...WITH HONOUR WE SERVE...and he abides by that. Yes there are bad cops everywhere...but you stay away from them. You don't work with ask for a transfer if it gets too HOT at the top and you get out before you become one of them....

Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 5:24 pm
While I am at it Wolf....His partner died as he was walking up to the front door answering a domestic...and left behind a wife and small son. Now you think I don't worry everytime he goes to work..Well I do and I don't. 1. Because you have to be strong to marry a cop in the first place, because as a Superintendent told me years ago...if you are going to worry about him everytime he puts on his uniform and straps on his gun, then don't marry him. Good Advice because you can get killed walking across the road...or by a drunk driver who shouldn't be behind the knows when their number is up but GOD.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 5:34 pm

I know, you brought up Bali before and I haven't forgotten it; in fact, I almost mentioned it to let you know that I hadn't forgotten it, because I knew you were going to say something like this. "Terror protection(s)"?! Most of the "protections against terrorism" are a show put on for you!! Haven't you gotten that yet?! They are to get you, just as it is here and in the U.K., etc., to almost if not completely, blindly support your "heros", "the authorities", and to voluntarilly "give up your liberties for freedom(s)" ["double-think" and "double-speak"]! Haven't you watched Alex Jones' "TerrorStorm"?! I may know he is a religious hypocrite, and heavilly dislike him for his hypocrisy(ies), promulgation of hatred, and violence-mongering, but he is COMPLETELY right on the money in that documentary, which EVERYONE should watch! If you haven't watched it, please go to to my main blog, or one of my other blogs, to watch it!! IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU WATCH THAT DOCUMENTARY, HELEN AND EVERYONE!!... Anyway, I do really love all people, including cops, believe it or not; but I just want ALL OF THEM to wake up and come out of ALL of the wickedness (Revelation 18:4; etc.)!!


Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 5:42 pm
I will watch it Wolf...but remember one thing. Cops are NOT ALL TAINTED. Over in the states they have been for a lot longer than any of them here in Australia. Some Cops are also HEROS'....Just take a look at the risks they took on 9/11 and think of those who lost their lives doing it for their job. They can't say I am not going to answer that call because they are afraid of being killed...they act on a call and think later what the consequencs could have been IF they get to that is. Have you heard of Police/Ambos/Fireman leaving the jobs they love because of Stress...Not only Veterans of the Wars suffer stress related illness either.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 5:44 pm

Helen and others',

Amen, Helen, I know you sometimes worry about your husband, and I don't lack "true sympathy" for that! And I AM truly sorry for what happened to his partner, I really do, please don't get me wrong! I have no doubt that there are still a very small minority of "good cops" out there, especially other than here! But I think you get my point(s), and don't misunderstand me; at least I give you the benefit of that doubt that you do understand me and don't miss my point(s)! I have considered you, throughout our online friendship, to be a bit naive, but NOT to be stupid! You have woken up a lot, and I HIGHLY admire you for that!

Only TRUE Love and Peace to EVERY-ONE(!),



Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 5:48 pm
Thanks Wolf and I admire you also. But there is no way in the world I would go to the US if someone handed me a free ticket. What has happened to the Land of The Beautiful...The Land of the Free, because it sure isn't like that from where I am looking and I am sure most of Americans know that too.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 5:59 pm

Oops, I forgot to put the links in, so here is it is again with them added:

"I know, you brought up Bali before and I haven't forgotten it; in fact, I almost mentioned it to let you know that I hadn't forgotten it, because I knew you were going to say something like this. "Terror protection(s)"?! Most of the "protections against terrorism" are a show put on for you!! Haven't you gotten that yet?! They are to get you, just as it is here and in the U.K., etc., to almost if not completely, blindly support your "heros", "the authorities", and to voluntarilly "give up your liberties for freedom(s)" ["double-think" and "double-speak"]! Haven't you watched Alex Jones' "TerrorStorm"?! I may know he is a religious hypocrite, and heavilly dislike him for his hypocrisy(ies), promulgation of hatred, and violence-mongering, but he is COMPLETELY right on the money in that documentary, which EVERYONE should watch! If you haven't watched it, please go to to my main blog, or one of my other blogs (or profiles), to watch it!! IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU WATCH THAT DOCUMENTARY, HELEN AND EVERYONE!!... Anyway, I do really love all people, including cops, believe it or not; but I just want ALL OF THEM to wake up and come out of ALL of the wickedness (Revelation 18:4; etc.)!!"

It's also on some of my other blog(s) at the following link(s):; and/or,


Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 6:11 pm

Believe me, Helen, I KNOW many of the cops and fireman, and many others, were heroes, especially on 9-11, and that many of them lost their jobs at the hands of "al-CIA-duh". Believe me, that irks me something fierce! That the criminals to the umpteenth power, mathematically-speaking, were able to get away with that mass-murder, that they are walking free, and that all of the many heroes and other innocent peoples' lives haven't been legally and justly "avenged" on the temporal level, justifiably and very understandably angers me, and all Americans and others who are awakened to the fact(s) that 9-11 was an "inside job", to the n'th degree!


Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 6:22 pm
Wolf I know you would know this..but some others may not have worked it out. Bali was 1yr 1month 1 day after 9/11. There is a sequence there is there not.!!!

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 6:23 pm

Helen, very unfortunately most "Americans" DON'T know that the U.S. is no longer the "Land of The Beautiful" and/or the "Land of the Free"! As Alex Jones so aptly says, it has become "the land of the cowards, and the home of the slaves"! And it is getting worse every day, but most people won't wake up to it, or they very naively think that someway it will all fix itself! They are not only living in a fantasy world, they are carrying out very strong blind, false "patriotism", better known as "nationalism", which is what led to Nazi Germany, and what is leading to neo-Nazi, "Fourth Reich" America! But most of the people are "sheeple" and are sound asleep at the wheel, apathetic, complacent, lazy, "pleasure seekers more than lovers of God", and/or cowards, etc.! Please pray for us, and pray that most "Americans" wake up and become True Americans and Patriots before it is too late! Thank you!


Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 6:33 pm
Wolf well they must be walking around blindfolded or never leave their homes or read the paper, watch the news..because Aussies worked it out long ago that America had turned into a Nazi run country. You have lost your freedom of speech, your freedom to go where you want to go in your country without being asked WHY in a lot of cases. I think they should start making a new Anthem fast as the one you have sure doesn't fit what we are seeing from across the seas. IMPEACH is on everyones lips but Clinton was Impeached for having and affair and now Bush has committed more Crimes than Saddam and he went to the Gallows.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 6:49 pm

As you probably know, Helen, these Satanists absolutely love numerology, and they love rubbing our faces in their carrying such things out on numerological and occult dates. Right now they are laughing very hard at most of us, and demonically "saying", "Look, you fools, we got away with this!" And, by and large, most of us ARE fools, so they are, in a sense, almost right to be laughing at us! What gullible sheeple we are! We let the worst of the worst, some of the most evil people on the face of the planet play us for chumps and mass-murder thousands of people, and we automatically, like "good" little trained sheeple, believe their lies and go on worshipping them and our government as if they're infallible, inerrant gods! I'd say, "What's wrong with us(?)", but I already know! Most of us are so indoctrinated, conditioned, programmed, and washed-of-brains that we "don't know what time it is"! The writing is on the wall right in front of our faces, and most of us still avoid and deny that it's there! I don't want to give "them" ANY credit, but look at "how well" they have brainwashed, programmed, conditioned, and indoctrinated us, and dumbed us down!

People, if you "get", understand and fully believe nothing else I say, fully believe, understand and "get" what I'm about to say: NO GOVERNMENT, including the United States government, is angelic or god-like, inerrant and/or deserving of worship or blind devotion! And no person, man or woman, President, Representative, Congressperson, Senator, Supreme Court Justice, OR ANYONE ELSE is anything but finite, errant human beings! They are NOT gods, they are NOT to be blindly followed, NO MATTER WHAT, and they are NOT superior to us IN ANY WAY(S)! It is "We the People" who are supposed to be running things, not a bunch of extremely evil, soldout, corrupted elitists! So stop blindly going along with them, and take the power back into your own hands where it belongs, and then don't let yourselves be corrupted either! If we are to save this country and world, and it isn't too late, we've got to grasp, take hold of, and not let go of the reigns, NO MATTER WHAT! It is because "We the People" let go of the reigns that corporate-neo-communist-theocratic-fascism is taking over! God help us to save America and the world!


Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 6:54 pm
True Wolf but untiil the people of America do something about their Government then other countries are no longer of the belief that America is a Powerful country. I know that if what is happening in the US happened here in Australia the GG would have stepped in and abolished the Parliament straight away. It has been done before here and can be done again.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 7:21 pm

I'm sure you've heard, so I probably don't need to repeat (forgive me people who already know this) that most "Americans" are believing all or most of lies fed to them by the likes of FOX (aka FAUX) News, CNN, MSNBC (but thank God for Keith Olbermann, the "Edward R. Murrow" of today), etc.! "Your" Rupert Murdoch, Ausie-"extraordinaire(illy evil)" owns almost all primary media here, and in the UK and your own country, he is a rabid NeoNaziCON, and he is helping to destroy the world! No exaggeration! The circles that he runs around in are absolutely diabolical, evil and insane!

But EVERYTHING you said, Helen, is completely right-on! Thank God you and so many other people in the world, objective to the United States, and even with all of their own propaganda and indoctrination "machinery", recognize and see what is really going on! Now, wake up "Americans", PLEASE! Pray like you never have before! Before it is too late! Because, if you are "country-centered", so to speak, "jingoistic", "xenophobic", and/or of the attitude that "my-country-is-better-than-every-other-country-in-the-world" (the ultimate bigotry and racism like the U.S. is so guilty of), and I'm NOT saying YOU are, remember that if the U.S. goes down into this nightmare of neo-communist-fascism, oppressive and repressive militarized police and concentration camp state "status", and authoritarian and totalitarian hell on earth, it will come to your country(ies) too, very rapidly, and before you know it your countries' will be very much the same as or like what the U.S. is fast becoming!

So, ALL OF YOU out there in the rest of the world need to non-violently fight against what is happening to the U.S. too! Otherwise, your childen are going to be slaves under the "jackboot(ed)-heels" of this madness very soon, and you and they are going to suffer untold horror(s) like the U.S.! God help us all to help us all!


Chris B (9)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 7:28 pm
This says a lot!!! Note the similarities of the agendas of the Bonesmen!

Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 7:35 pm
Well the thing is that most Aussies don't listen to Murdoch at all. In fact most Aussies don't buy a newspaper or if they do it is to read the extras in it on a Sunday. We all know the media is a hyped up pack of lies and you only have to read between the lines of a Breaking News to see that what is supposed to be the next installment in the news is only a hype up to get you to watch it when it is released...and there is really nothing more said than in the first installment. Sounds a bit like "Days of our Drearies" but really I do think that a lot of people are hoping for a next installment of 9/11, as long as they are no-where near it or any of their relatives.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 8:29 pm


Jesus the Christ (not in vain), Helen, what does the last part of the last thing you said tell you?! About most people, including people abroad of the U.S.?! That anyone would HOPE for the downfall of the U.S., even if our government and/or military deserve it, tells us that most people are ignoramuses like "Americans", whether they hail from another country other than the U.S. or not!! Insanity upon insanity!! Do you understand what I was saying above?? Because upon re-reading it I realized I may not have been clear enough: Help wake up "Americans", you people "abroad"!! Instead of holding such ignorant and insane "hopes"!!

You, abroad, are awake to what "America's" really all about; so, instead of being self-superior and acting like you're supposedly better than "Americans", when NOBODY is better than ANYONE else, PLEASE help wake "Americans" up to their true condition!! And then I thank you for being True World-Citizens!! We are ALL on this "spaceship earth" together!! We either sink or swim TOGETHER!! Please don't be like "America(ns)" and act like anyone is superior to anyone else!! That will make you just as bad as "America(ns)" and part of the problem instead of part of the "solution(s)"!! Please don't lower yourselves to "our" level!!

Please be unselfish and help "America(ns)" even if we don't deserve it; because, in doing so, you are helping everyone the world-over!! Thank you!!

Only TRUE Love and Peace,



Past Member (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 8:42 pm



Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 10:48 pm
Now that will teach me not to use MS Word and copy and paste what I just said...I lost it all here for some reason it didn't post. Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that I said that BUSH has just a few days ago announced that he might arrive earlier in Australia for the APEC Summit next month. Why??? Because what more can he do...As far as our Security knew he was here for the Summit only and has already caused Sydneyites to have to take different routes to work because of roads closed to protect the "Head of Terrorism" while he is on our soil. But NOW he wants to make sure that WE AUSSIES feel more concerned because he is in the country...not because he is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES EITHER... that has no clout with us. It is because he is one of the insiders of 9/11 that concerns us and our safety. A visit from the President of the United States is nothing to be excited about if he was REALLY only is the fact that he knows that we know, that 9/11 was an inside job. We would not even go so far as to call him Mr President here in Australia...why should we, when we don't give our own Politicians the name MR in front as respect...we just call them Prime Minister, Senator, Governor, Premier or whatever state he holds. But since we are not a subject of the United States, we are still under Britian then why should we!!!! Except TERRORIST

Ali Hirst (286)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 10:53 pm
Oh and the stockmarket just dropped 5% over in the US this morning. Now that does concern investors here. But moreso it concerns our PM as that means we lose even more money than the last 5 Interest Rate hikes over the past 3yrs. He must be shaking in his boots now in Canberra. Parliament House is about to get a new Prime Minister, and I am even more certain of it as the days draw nearer to the Polls in November sometime.

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday August 15, 2007, 11:23 pm
Elder's Meditation of the Day August 16
"The best teachers have shown me that things have to be done bit by bit. Nothing that means anything happens quickly - we only think it does."
--Joseph Bruchac, ABENAKI
There are no short cuts. Every tree must grow according to the growth plan of the Creator. Every flower must grow according to the plan of God. The moon must make its trip around the earth according to God's plan. Every human being must grow according to the plan of the Creator. Sometimes we look at ourselves and we think we are not growing but we are always growing. Because we cannot see it with our mind does not mean it is not happening. we must be patient with ourselves and let the Creator direct our growth.

My Creator, let me be patient. Let me realize that You are in charge of all things. Let me realize that I must grow my roots a little at a time to become strong.

Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 3:52 am

Helen, what's the rest of that second to last comment you made? It got cut off, or you hit "Submit" before you meant to... Are THAT MANY Ausies ( seems to make more sense to me, and more accurate grammatically, to spell it with one 's' rather than two because Australia is only spelled with one 's' ;), [sticking my tongue out at you, Ma'am! LOL! :], really aware that 9-11 was an inside job, because I'm under the impression that, like here in the States, most Ausies believe the propaganda and "official lie(s)", I mean "story(ies)"? Forgive me for appearing to doubt you, Helen, but I just find that level of awareness very difficult to believe. And tell me, if a "9-11 type event 'went off' in Australia, wouldn't the vast majority of the people swallow that it was carried out by "Islamofascists" or some such thing, and blindly support the government much as here, giving them "carte blanche" for setting up unprecidented, draconian, anti-liberties, so-called anti-terrorism "laws"?

Also, Helen, I should respond to something else you said earlier. I can only speak for myself why I still call the cops when I believe it's necessary (and, btw, if it's not an emergency, I make sure I telephone the non-emergency phone number, NOT 911) because I expect them to ONLY do their jobs, to "protect and serve", and nothing more, and because I'm an idiot! I should know better by now than to call them for anything except dire emergencies, but my calling them has gotten at least one drunk driver off the road, so they don't always do the wrong thing. The problem is, I don't know if they violated the rights of the drunk driver or not. Oh, yes, I can hear some people saying that I shouldn't be concerned about his rights, and/or that he doesn't, or shouldn't, have any rights. But ALL PEOPLE have rights, and it is so to protect everyone from abuses of authority, just as it should be; but most cops here are itching to abuse almost all accused peoples' rights.

Wolfweeps, that sounds like the so-called "Christian" crap that they teach in churches in the U.S. now to get members to believe that they're allegedly not supposed to do anything about their government running amuck, and to blindly "give unto Ceasar's what is Ceasar's" and worship the government like it can do little or no wrong, supporting it even in its evils. So, in other words, we should supposedly just "be patient" and "trust God" such that we sit back and do nothing, or almost nothing, when literal Satanists have taken over that government and are destroying all of our True Freedoms and Civil Liberties, and enslaving us?! PLEASE!!... Give us all a break from those lies in the guise of "wise advice"!! It's bullpucky!! Yah, bullpucky mixed with some sensibleness, but that's the way evil works, mixing truth with falsehoods!! I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you knew better than that, Wolfweeps, and that you would not listen to such extreme drivel!!

But, then again, I should not be surprised by anything anymore, should I??!! As I've said many times, the entire world is going insane on an express train to hell (on earth); and, after "everything changed" (on 9-11), and troglodyte, draconian, anti-freedom, anti-rights "laws" such as the so-called "USA P.A.T.R.I.O.T Act were enacted, nothing should really be surprising anymore, should it??!! Of course, my questions in this paragraph are rhetorical again. As all of you reading this may have heard, 9-11 was Bush and Company's "Reichstag fire"; meaning that it was carried out by the U.S. government, like Hitler's government carried out the Reichstag fire, in order to take unprecidented, absolute, dictatorial, tyrannical control over the government and the people, and to be able to freely "lead them" into extremely ill-advised, internationally-illegal, insane, so-called "preemptive", and aggressive wars, invasions, conquests, and occupations of other sovereign countries....

And, in the context of this thread, as with Nazi Germany as well, martial law and "pogroms" against innocent, non-violent and anti-violence dissenters, those who disagree with the draconianness of the regime in power, the disabled, the "infirm", scientists, professors, "foreigners", those who are "different" such as glbt people, etc., is next. "History repeats itself", and those "Americans" and other people in the world who thought and believe(d) that a repeat of something similar to Nazi Germany could not possible happen here, were entirely wrong. It IS happening here, right now, and most "Americans" and many other people in the rest of the world are still in avoidance and denial that it is. I'm "afraid" the sky could literally fall, and they still wouldn't believe it was happening. It is absolutely incredible, flabergasting and/or unbelievable that most people will literally choose, however consciously or not, to deny and avoid facts staring them right in the face.

We are in such deep, dire, grave trouble when people are so brainwashed, programmed, conditioned, indoctrinated, and dumbed-down that they don't believe the reality happening right in front of them! What is it they call that? "Suspended belief" or some such thing? Mass-insanity clearly appears to have take over, in the U.S. at least, and it seems like with most that no matter what we say to prove to them that the "theatre" IS on fire and they're about to be asphyxiated and/or burned up, they will still refuse to believe it! "Even" far too many so-called "progressives" as well! It is completely bonkers! What has to happen to get those people to see that, if they don't wake up and do something very quickly, they are going to be living under modern-day "Nazi Germany", but this time in "America"?! Is there some "special", secret signal or handshake that will get them to wake up and face the fascism taking over their once great, "free" country?!


Marguerite snow (22)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 7:23 am
Amen Wolf

Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 9:54 am
TO Whom It May Concern: I'll try to make this short and sweet.

Wolf, I tried to send you a private message yesterday before I left; Care2 wouldn't let me. This place is only open 8-5 M-F right now. So I violate my own privacy by making my email address available to you, if you wish to contact me: Email or messenger.

Of course, my privacy's further violated, as anyone viewing this post will also see it. If you wish, contact me; if not, don't. It won't affect the world either way.

(. . .thank God humanity's only a temporary phenomenon. . .)

To all concerned, I apoligize for my interruption.


Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 10:17 am

That was additionally stupid what I said about the drunk driver above, and not knowing "if they violated the rights of the drunk driver or not". Of course they violated his rights, they presumed him guilty and stacked the deck so he has no chance whatsoever of proving himself innocent, things that as I said before are never supposed to be done to accussed people under the U.S. system of justice. But even Yale graduate attorneys have said that our "criminal justice" system is deeply flawed and anything but just. What can we expect? We're in a time when people who are supposed to stand for nothing but justice are taking more and more "license" to commit greater and greater injustice. This should not suprise us in the least. But, it is true also that no "criminal justice" system has ever really been just throughout the entire history of the world. All people are "sinners" and have a propensity to do evil, and that's why we need to be restored to our Creator....

Also, here's some further corrections to some mistakes I made in part of my previous comment:

"....Then again, I (and/or we) should not be surprised by anything anymore, should I (/we)??!! As I've said many times before, the entire world is going insane on an express train to hell (on earth); and, after "everything changed" (on 9-11), and troglodyte, draconian, anti-freedom, anti-rights "laws" such as the so-called "USA P.A.T.R.I.O.T Act" were enacted, nothing should really be surprising anymore, should it??!! Of course, my questions in this paragraph are rhetorical again. As all of you reading this may have heard, 9-11 was Bush and Company's "Reichstag fire"; meaning that it was carried out by the U.S. government, like Hitler's government carried out the Reichstag fire, in order to take unprecidented, absolute, dictatorial, tyrannical control over the government and the people, to do away with civil rights and liberties, and to be able to freely "lead them" into extremely ill-advised, internationally-illegal, insane, so-called "preemptive", and aggressive wars, invasions, conquests, and occupations of other sovereign countries....

"And, in the context of this thread, as with Nazi Germany as well, martial law, mass-imprisonment and/or "pogroms" against innocent, non-violent and anti-violence dissenters, those who disagree with the draconianness of the regime in power, the disabled, the "infirm", scientists, professors, "foreigners", those who are "different" such as glbt people, etc., is next. "History repeats itself", and those "Americans" and other people in the world who thought and believe(d) that a repeat of something similar to Nazi Germany could not possibly happen in the U.S., were (and/or are) entirely wrong. It IS happening here, right now, and most "Americans" and many other people in the rest of the world are still in avoidance and denial of the fact(s) that it is. I'm "afraid" that the sky could literally be falling, and they still wouldn't believe it was happening. It is absolutely incredible, flabergasting and/or unbelievable that most people will literally choose, however consciously or not, to deny and avoid facts that are staring them right in the face.

"We are in such deep, dire, grave trouble when people are so brainwashed, programmed, conditioned, indoctrinated, and dumbed-down that they don't believe the reality happening right in front of them! What is it they call that? "Suspended belief" or some such thing? Mass-insanity clearly appears to have take over, in the U.S. at least, and it seems, with most people, like no matter what we say to prove to them that the "theatre" IS on fire and they're about to be asphyxiated and/or burned up, they will still refuse to believe it! "Even" far too many so-called "progressives" as well! It is completely bonkers! What has to happen to get those people to see that, if they don't wake up and do something very quickly, they are going to be living under modern-day "Nazi Germany", but this time in "America"?! Is there some "special", secret signal or handshake that will get them to wake up and face the fascism taking over their once great, "free" nation?!"


Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 10:31 am

Matt, is it(?) [/Okami], where are all of these apologies coming from? You can say whatever you want here, within reason. You are not interrupting. Even if so many things we've been discussing here were not interrelated and therefore not really off-topic, the rights, both natural and legal, to freedom of speech and freedom from censorship would dictate that as long as it is legal and not against the legal rules of C2/C2NN, we can say whatever we want, even if it's "off-topic". So, since you're willing to give out your email address "in public", freely speak your heart right here. You haven't got anything to hide, right?


Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 11:51 am

On, "Wednesday August 15, 2007, 7:35 pm", Helen said:

"Well the thing is that most Aussies don't listen to Murdoch at all. In fact most Aussies don't buy a newspaper or if they do it is to read the extras in it on a Sunday. We all know the media is a hyped up pack of lies and you only have to read between the lines of a Breaking News to see that what is supposed to be the next installment in the news is only a hype up to get you to watch it when it is released...and there is really nothing more said than in the first installment. Sounds a bit like "Days of our Drearies" but really I do think that a lot of people are hoping for a next installment of 9/11, as long as they are no-where near it or any of their relatives."


Helen, did I perhaps ( very likely :) misunderstand what you were saying in that last part? Upon re-reading and thinking about it, I realized maybe you were talking about the evil people in positions of power, especially in the U.S. government and "al-CIA-duh", hoping for another 9-11 to occur. Is that what you meant?


Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 11:59 am

Did you not mean "a lot of" Ausies "....are hoping for a next installment of 9/11....", which I may have precipitously and incorrectly presumed you meant?


Marguerite snow (22)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 12:40 pm
That's just crazy talk

Marguerite snow (22)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 12:41 pm
That's just crazy talk

Kathleen R (983)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 12:54 pm
In response to all who have aluded to America & poverty, etc.: In the '90s I was involved with a university located within the Appalchian regions of high poverty rates. An honors student from India was astounded upon learning that poverty does exist in America -- yet she had only to go 2 miles out of the town to see proof everywhere! I am amazed at the number of American citizens who do not realize the extent of our poverty and/or just don't care about it!!!

Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 2:06 pm

Please make more responsible comments, Marguerite, and explain what you mean. Thanx. :)

What is "just crazy talk"?


Kathleen R (983)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 2:15 pm
Now that I have read nearly all the previous comments, I wish also add that although I am a Christian I am tolerant of other religions and much respect for their beliefs et al. When discussing politics shouldn't enter into it, except that we do want things like morals, integrity, and, decency withinh our actions.

Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 3:14 pm

Poppycock, Kathleen! Even though there is of course supposed to be separation of church and state in political life and/or governance to avoid theocratic tyranny, there is NOT supposed to be any of same in discussions between citizens and others. Religion and politics go hand in hand in this country, or at least are supposed to, and that is one of the reasons why freedom of religion is so inextricably intertwined with freedom of speech, expression, protest, dissent, and seeking redress of grievances from the government. You may not have meant it that way, but it sounds like you're for exercising "selective freedom of speech", and/or like you're seeking to limit some free expression while involved in other topics, such as political ones, of free expression. We live in a so-called "Christian" country where "believers" among(st) "We the People" ARE SUPPOSED TO stand up on political issues and be one of the "checks" on government power; therefore, we can of course bring religion into political discussion(s), and should be able to do freely, without some citizens trying to curtail that freedom of religion and freedom of expression and/or speech.

Besides, under freedom of speech, we are free to discuss whatever we want, wherever we want, as long as it does not violate any Constitutional and/or "just" laws, does not threaten to physically harm anyone, and/or it doesn't, in the case of this forum, violate the "just" and/or Constitutionally legal rules of any such forum(s). So, please, don't even try to hint at limiting anyone's free expression, of religion and/or politics. Thank you. [Btw, in partial response, here, to your PM (more to come in private), I don't care if you or anyone else thinks I'm supposedly a "flaming fanatic". Many people thought Jesus the Christ was a fanatic; so, though I of course don't in any way put myself on His level, I am nevertheless in very good company if some unrighteously judgmental people (John 7:24) like yourself think I'm supposedly a "fanatic". Bully for you! At least you didn't put it out in public ( no, I did that in this case :), which would have been libel, slander, character assassination, and/or defamation of character on your part; so I give you a great deal of credit and kudos for not committing such civil rights violations and/or illegal action(s).

I too am tolerant of what believers in True Christianity are supposed to be tolerant of; but Jesus the Christ was not tolerant, and set the example that we are not supposed to be tolerant, of hypocrisy, counterfeit-"Christianity", other false religions, idol worship, worship of false gods and/or the devil, spiritualism, paganism, witchcraft, the occult, and other evil(s) of any and all kinds, but that we, as He did, are supposed to rebuke them all! Evidently you call that "intolerance"; but God calls it calling all evil by its right name(s), or calling it exactly what it is; and, in other words, speaking nothing but the truth about what it really is in no uncertain terms! It is really sad that such does not meet with your counterfeit "Christian" 'sensibilities', but I will continue to freely, pursuant to the Word(s) of God, the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment, and the Bill of Rights' Article One, to fulfill Jesus the Christ's example(s) to call all evil(s) exactly what it is, and/or they are, without being in any way deterred from doing so by misinformed and misleading hypocrites. Did you know that NO ONE in the ENTIRE New Testament EVER called themselves a "Christian"?


Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 3:19 pm

P.S.---In case I need to spell it out, the so-called "tolerance" of which you speak is false "tolerance".


One Love (130)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 3:22 pm
Unfortunately the Republicans have forced the conversation of politics and religion. Here's Newt Gingrich's 2004 Campaign Strategy Document.

Ali Hirst (286)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 3:42 pm
No Wolf I did not mean that Australia is waiting for America to have another 9/11. But what I do mean is that it is obviously feasable that while the Terrorists reside in the White House then of course it is only a matter of time that either the US does or another country with close ties to the US...meaning UK, or Australia. I hope that I am wrong here. Another thing is that stats show that only 40% of the US vote..and over 90% are unhappy with who is President. So the only way to fix that is for more Americans to vote or else put up with whoever gets voted in next election Australian vote here because it is mandatory after you turn 18 unless you are unfit or for religious reason you can't vote. So my question here is I wonder how many people who have replied this thread or any other thread about Bush and Impeaching, actually vote at all.

Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 8:18 pm

That clarification helps a lot. Thanks, Helen! Now we need to clarify the last comment you made. Sorry, maybe if I was an Ausie, what you're meaning is would be clear to me. No worries, though, like the kiddo says in the movie, Sling Blade, "I like the way you talk"! I love the Ausie accent and everything about Australia. One of your and my friends here on C2, who's name I won't mention, didn't like Australia when she visited there, mostly because of the "chauvinism", but I'm such a chauvinist myself, so I don't have a problem with it! LOL! For instance, she didn't like the "men's only" pubs or bars, and the heavy drinking.

Personally, me, I believe in "live and let live", and loving and respecting the differences in culture, thus my love for Ausies and everything Australian. I've long said, for years, that I've never met an Ausie I didn't like. Now, no doubt Australia has its share of "a--holes", they're everywhere, but I haven't met one from "down-under" yet! Anyway, I'm truthfully not trying to "butter you up", though it may appear like that. I honestly love Australians, every one I've ever met anyway. I think perhaps you're the way most Americans used to be; but now "Americans" have become so distrusting of "strangers" that I think it's difficult for them to recognize their "kinship" with everyone the world-over anymore. Also, and maybe it's similar there, they by and large don't want to talk about anything important, or other than in a false-nationalism(tic) sort of way, and only want to keep things shallow and "mundane", and are now mostly very phony in my opinion. ( That's what was so flabbergasting about Chris calling my comments "shallow", though I didn't say anything about it at the time, when they're anything but, wouldn't you say?! :)

Getting back to the point, forgive me, but your point about whether most "Americans" here on C2/C2NN vote or not, seems like your earlier point about "cop bashers". It seems to me you're saying, like most "Americans" do, that those who don't vote for politicians are "irresponsible" and supposedly "don't have a right to complain about the government", a very strong prejudice here that is so shot full of holes that most people here are so blind to that they can't see them. Rhetorically speaking, would you like to be complicit in what very serious crimes most of those politicians commit while in office, because complicit we are in whatever, and all, evils they commit if we voted for them and helped elect them!? You've heard that most politicians are not to be trusted; well, they aren't, and we should not help them commit the crimes that they do! Besides, that's bullpucky that people supposedly have no right to criticize the government if they don't vote for these corrupt, lying, extremely-criminal career politicians! It is absolutely no exaggeration to say that most of them are a form of mobster(s), are (deeply?) involved in the government-"mob", or become so, and are not to be trusted at all! I guess if I was an Australian citizen, I would got to jail, because I would absolutely refuse to vote for most of them if I was forced to or paid to; for I will not be complicit in any of their evils and/or crimes in any way whatsoever! In truth, that doesn't make me a "bad citizen", it makes me a good citizen!

Think about it this way: If all you have for "choices" are a bunch of, at best, "lesser(s) of several evils", do you think it's right to make a "compromised" selection and vote, and then watch that person or persons perpetrate all manner of crimes in your name? No thank you! I will not support any corrupt(ible) person and/or criminal in any way, shape or form, period! If that supposedly makes me a "bad citizen", "thought criminal", or whatever, so be it! I'm a "wolf" that doesn't run with the pack, who doesn't "conform" to the mass-insanity. Hell, most "Americans" think those who face what's really going on are supposedly "weird"!

Well, we are "un-usual", that's for sure, if you catch my "drift", and thank God we are!


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 8:22 pm

How in the HELL did this become an argument about Austrailian vs. American policy? (as if Helen is a major influence on Aussie policy, or Americans have been sponsors or advocates of the bullcrap Bush is promoting?)


Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 9:26 pm

Carole, you loon, Helen and I are friends, and there is no "argument about Austrailian vs. American policy" going on! Can't you read and understand plain English? Or do you just scan or "gloss over" what's said, get an extremely vague at best impression of what's being said and/or "argued", and then attack people based on what really amounts to nothing but conjecture on your part about, without any real or correct understanding of, what's truly being discussed? Do you and your ilk really understand free speech and censorship at all, and understand that everyone has the right(s) to talk about whatever they darn well please, with the only exceptions being what I've outline before, above, without the likes of you and Chris coming in and making trouble? Again, if you troublemakers, etc., think you're going to intimidate me and/or shut me up, you've got another thing coming, and you better just stop ALL of your bullpucky right now!


Past Member (0)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 10:14 pm

Love, God's Holy Love, "Agape Love", is completely foreign to you, Chris! You are a Satanist and don't even realize it! Listen, you pervert, mentally unbalanced nutcase, and demon-controlled hater, you have no business preaching to me about love; because, with all of your attacks of me, etc., you have no business preaching to me about a thing you have no concept of because you are so full of hate and anti-Christian rhetoric. We were doing just fine without you, having no evil argument, and you had to come back and "anti-grace" us with your spirit of darkness and evil.

"It is written, thus says the Lord [God in Jesus the Christ, the Word(s) of God, and Creator of the entire universe]...." "....Get... behind (Jesus the Christ), Satan...."! "....You are of your father the devil, and the lies of your father you... do...."! (Matthew 16:23 and John 8:44; emphasis added by me.)

See there? Often times True Love is "tough", not the evil fundamentalist, Dr. James Dobson's, way, but truly tough nevertheless (he used to be pretty right on until he became a NeoNaziCON fascist)! The kind of "love" you are talking about, not only is it not Love at all, it is truly shallow, like the shallowness you were talking about. I didn't say before that that you're "a nobody with nothing to say that matters"! If you would truly say something that matters, I would be the first one to say that it matters, but all you do is keep denegrating Christianity and me! Again, perhaps that gets you "Brownie points" with some people here, but not all!

"Mother Theresa" was a "one-worlder", and pro-"New World Order", a counterfeit "Christian", Satanic, false-"christ"-worshipper whose life of apparent sacrifice and "good works" doesn't impress God or me in the least! ALL anti-war rallies ARE peace rallies! There's no difference between the two! I do not love evil, which is ultimately what you want me to love in order to prove to you that I'm "loving". Man are you deceived! Like I said before, you can't see the forest for the trees, and you just prove me correct the more you embarrass yourself with your lunacy(ies)! I've already told you Who WILL turn things around, God in Jesus the Christ WILL!

I don't "hate" Alex Jones, or ANYONE else! I DISLIKE Alex Jones, but I still promote his 90% truth, as I'm sure you've noticed! How come you haven't made something out of that (yet)? As I've made more than clear, what does far too much towards ruining his presentation, and lowering his truthfullness to 90%, is his ego, hatefulness (much like you, or your much like him), promotion of violence, and his hypocrisy(ies); but the demons in you absolutely love egotism, hatefulness and violence, so "you are in their element"; and they also love tearing other, closer to 100% Truth, people down, as you do! Talk about who should get a (REAL) life!


In the name of Jesus the Christ, I command ALL of the evil spirits which fill your soul to come COMPLETELY out of you NOW, and to not enter ANY other living thing EVER again!


Ali Hirst (286)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 10:44 pm
First Carole Wolf is right we are friends..same as Carole and I are friends. I have heaps of American friends on Care2 and I love each and every one of you. I am not putting any of my friends here on Care2 down in any way at all. What I am trying to say is that Americans have to FIX the PROBLEM IN THE WHITE HOUSE. The only way they are going to FIX it is to band together and do it as a NATION. Here in Australia we have different Polical Parties..too many to name or think of offhand but some new ones have just come to the fore in the past week or so. They are called Independant Parties. Yes we have Independant Reps in Federal Parliament too, because if an Electorate votes them in, or they get in by preferences then that is what happens. Our Major Parties are the Coalision which is a joint party of Liberal/National....God forbid in Canberra (Federal) I wish they would become separate parties again. Then we have Labor which used to be for the Working Class. The Liberals and Nationals used to be for the RICH. Or that is how it workd back when my Grandfather was in Politics. He was sadly killed while still in office by a train on his way to work. Now if this happened today it would not be called an accident I am certain of that. Offtopic here,............
Okay well in Australia we have been bought up to vote so to be honest now I would much rather NOT VOTE for the reasons you say above Wolf...we are to blame for voting in these idiots who are lying all the time through their teeth. Just yesterday (Federal Parliament) is on TV each day for Question Time and 2 of the Head Politticians (Rudd - Labor) and (Swan - Labor) both asked questions of the same at least 5 times to the one person and still kept going. Now that was so rediculous I was wondering if my TV had gone into sleep mode on its own and was playing back the same question time after time. But obviously not because the answers were different.
Now this brings me to the reason I would rather not vote, but I also prefer to be on this side of the prison walls too. Yes you can go to jail for not voting if you don't pay the fine or you repeatedly don't vote. All I am trying to get across is that Australians are finally waking up to the fact that the Liberal/National party in Power in Canberra is not doing the job they promised to keep interest rates troops to Iraq...or anywhere else unless it was for peacekeeping forces...But along comes Bush and of course Howard and he are joined at the hip so much that we are beginning to seriously think we are another state of the US or will be soon if we don't get that Party out in these next elections I don't have an answer as to who should be in Power...they are all liars, or they are too green or wet behind the ears to run a country. So a lot are going to be watching the Independent Parties here this election moreso than ever and check where their preference lie...and vote for them. I think this is going to be a very close and maybe even surprising election. Howard can stay as long as he is voted in...sadly we dont have the same laws as the US that they have set terms and they are out. This will be his 5th term *God Forbid* if he gets in again. I have to get a coffee, and will be back to see if I have not answered all your questions Wolf...meanwhile I want to submit this as each time I have tried today it has not shown up..someone is filtering my posts I think...AND I AM NOT AN AMERICAN.

Chris B (9)
Thursday August 16, 2007, 10:44 pm
Hallelujah! You ARE a fruit cake. I knew it!

You are just rude! Sad.....