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So This Is America? WTF?

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: abuse, americans, congress, democrats, Hillary Clinton, news, politics, protest, government, freedoms )

- 2654 days ago -
Apparently, in an act of silent protest, McGovern did not sit down as Clinton began speaking, but instead remained standing with his back to Clinton as she spoke. At that point McGovern was hauled from the auditorium by security personnel. McGovern su

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Kae De Ville (2)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 12:26 pm
There is never...NEVER an excuse for one of our law-abiding veterans to receive this kind of treatment. Remember, America, you are only as free as your government wants you to be! Please join me in protesting the treatment of this man, then look at the WHOLE issue. More is happening here than you know!

Kit B (276)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 12:30 pm
I read this earlier as well, I just don't want to believe, yet it is true. I read one comment that McGovern was hoping to be hauled off...not sure if that is meant to justify what happened. So this is America? Corporations
[faux persons] buy elections, one state wants to end child labor laws, another wishes to not recognize the Navajo people, some wish to end all public education and the list goes on and on. I just feel disgust.

Hans M (591)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 12:56 pm
This isn't about corporations or child labor laws or the Navajo indians. Please stay with the subject which was a deplorable incident.

Norm C (74)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 1:05 pm

Give it a rest. I realize you cannot make connections that have not been predigested and dart boarded and made up by FOX, but you might try.

Hans M (591)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 2:10 pm
No need to answer Norm, I think that you have in a round about way.

Jae A (316)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 4:22 pm
What do you mean it isn't about corporations and child labor laws or the Navajo Indians Han? What country are you now supporting anyway . Not America that's becoming more and more clear about you by the day. It's about all those GD things you ....whatever. The corporates do want the child labor laws done away with as well as taking away anything they haven't already from the Native Americans. . .and on and on. Hauling a silent protester off is nothing short of corporate demands that this type of action will not set well with them. He was protesting 'them' ~

If you would think Hans you would see that Kit made a statement about the article and then connect more dots to it...try and keep up Hans. It's the best you probably can aim for.

Hans M (591)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 4:52 pm
Jaea - Oh I thought that the post was about "Ray McGovern who attended the address by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton at George Washington University as a member of the audience and as Clinton began speaking, he remained standing with his back to Clinton. At that point McGovern was hauled from the auditorium by security personnel. McGovern suffered minor injuries and was jailed."

Oh yes, in reading further I see that McGovern was rescued by a band of Navajo indians in order to attend a corporate annual meeting which was hosted by child labor.


Jae A (316)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 7:56 pm
Don't be condescending Hans, I too read the article as did Kit and others....once again I ask you..WTF is your point now ? Racism or assism remarks just for the fun of it ?

Kae De Ville , you are right on with that ...there is more going on than most people know;especially when it comes to those mindsets like the ones Hans supports. Corporate Government has a grip on our 'powers' that be and it's time he as well as others wake up and decide to see all sides, his own included , as they are.....If we as Dem.'s find this upsetting everyone should I would think. To mock child labor is downright disgusiting as well as to make fun of a minority but to add to those on top of shutting ones mind to 'what is happening here' is just a waste of time for everyone.. when time is something we don't have much of in order to stop this take over by the Corporates...

Give you a break Hans....I repear...WTF ...for. I don't think so.

Jae A (316)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 8:02 pm
ok..ooops..."repeat" not repear. No break necessary ....Twaz just a typo...and so will Ray McGovern . This got media attention that it might not have otherwise. I applaud the man for what he did and frown upon the others for what they did to him.

Norm C (74)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 8:25 pm

As you know, some folks hang around here just to try to stir up $#!+, rarely offering anything of substance but always demanding the facts while come up with nothing but BS.

Jae A (316)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 8:40 pm
I know you are right Norm but sometimes...ya just have to ask them the long and hard way....Do you or do you not have an opinion on this subject...Hans. ?..TO be clear as to that opinion about the subject of the article and not just about how others have commented on it.

Linda G (187)
Thursday February 17, 2011, 9:11 pm
And the scolding from someone who imports entire news articles into someone elses thread? Gotta learn to practice what you preach, Hans.

Back to the article, I don't see how Hillary could have missed what was going on. I didn't hear a peep out of him while she was speaking so doesn't seem like much of a heckler to me. It's just a shame that more of the video didn't show him standing with his back turned or if he was blocking someone or if he was asked to sit down. Video's can be very misleading as we have learned from the Shirley Sherrod case.

Jae A (316)
Friday February 18, 2011, 4:42 am
If something like that were the case LindaAWAY :-) then I can see them asking him to leave or escorting him out the door. To send him to jail without him resisting 'his escort' would also be wrong, even if there was something ,which wasn't obvious in the video, but that could have set them off as to them wanting him out of the building. Anything like what he did,peacefully or not,within a building can be considered disruptive to whatever is going on via a speaker. After the recent shootings in Az. someone standing with their back to a speaker could also have caused them to act quicly to have him removed. Better safe than sorry and all that. That would be normal reason enough to ask/tell him to leave...or to have just walked up to him and secured his arms to walk him him etc.Then if he refused without physical resistance they could have, as I said, been justified in escorting him out of the building and been done with it. Anything beyond that, without his physically resisting,taking him to jail was wrong in my opinion.

Hillery was focused on her speech and the lighting might have been so that she couldn't really tell much if anything other than that someone was still standing...which would be the same if the lighting were perfect actually. Anywho...... Without some sort of loud shouting or physical agression being obvious as they were escorting him away she would have no clue as to what was happening until after the fact...or so I would think would be the case.Even if she did, she was right to have handled things the way she did...No doubt every politican/public political speaker has flashes of Az. in their minds every time they stand to make a speech.

I think the man made a mistake in how he went about it,especially so soon after the shooting in Az. Maybe all he had in mind to do was to protest peacefully and perhaps knowing his odds of being escorted out of the building were in his favor...that one man media attention kind of tactic. He could have wanted it to go somewhat the way it did knowing the odds of him not being escorted out were slim to begin with. Just the least amount of muscle flex while being secured,which might not be visible to others or a camera, could have caused those taking him away to feel he might put up a fight. In that case they would have used more forced perhaps. With that possibility, I also agree with Linda.

I still applaud anyone ,from any opposition, to stand silently in protest of something while others sit during someone's speech. That to me is having the freedom and right to a peaceful protest. The setting of the speech could also dictate what might happen, which I think was the case here.

I am not concerned by his protesting in the mannor he did nor with 'them' for ask or telling or escorting him out of the building peacefully. The jail thing is what I think was wrong if he didn't struggle/resist in any way other than some muscle tension maybe. At his age, brusing can be easier done with less force than on a younger person and medical conditions of various person of all ages can be cause someone to be brused like that from just a firm grip on their arms. I think a little common sense,fast thinking and they could have handled this whole thing in a P.C. kind of way. Lack of doing so just brought to minds the image of 'big brother being able to do whatever they want'. That was their mistake..taking him to jail ..if nothing out of the camera's view did happen.

He got max. media coverage the way things did turn out. Good tactic,even if a not a really a smart one, due to the Az. shooting especially, on his behalf I think. It could have gone worse for everyone, himself included. He pushed the right buttons and this time it worked out ok for him. Security surrounding politicans is in over-drive and on extra high alert now days and that's what changed the dynamics in this instance, I think.

Jae A (316)
Friday February 18, 2011, 6:10 am
I forgot to mention in that long comment above :-) that from what I can tell in the video he was resisting beyond that of muscle provoke that might have been is the that will probably never be known beyond a doubt by anyone but those involved...and one side will never agree with the other sides version. 'If' he did calm down once outside it would have been smarter P.R., to not have taken him to jail. Why resist what you know is about to happen inside a building under all known circumstances,Az. shooting etc., was suspicious as to his motive all along I think. By any signs of resistence he did take it to a level beyond peaceful. What we didn't see was how it started...that is why this one leaves so many unanswered questions at this time.

Hans M (591)
Friday February 18, 2011, 6:34 am
We all have a right to peaceful protests. If McGovern's protest was interrupting Hillary's speach then it was acceptable that he be escorted out of the meeting. Unless there is something that has not been made evident, it was entirely inappropriate and probably actionable that he was taken to jail. If Hillary has heard of the incident and not made a statement in opposition to the handling of the matter, then she is lacking both personally and as a representative of the people. Call me dense but I still don't understand how the Navajo's were involved.

Esther Z (94)
Friday February 18, 2011, 7:18 am
I agree with Jae, with the Arizona shootings, security for officials aren't taking any chances. But, I don't think he should had been roughed up or jailed. Simply walking him out, checking his legal records and questioning him would had suffice.

Past Member (0)
Friday February 18, 2011, 9:04 am
Can we just address our protocol differences OFFLINE...AS IN Send a meeage from their profile? please?

Toni C (508)
Friday February 18, 2011, 10:55 am
Go Jae! You, too, Norm...

David C (131)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 8:18 am
this is what happens in a society where the leaders/corporatists/weathly are living in fear & trying to make all of society the same --- in my opinion, what is too much overlooked about the past half-century is that we have become a society where leaders use fear/scare tactics to try and get followers to have the opinions they want. Fear makes us not trust others, start wars, break our Constitution, be angry at foreignors, punish the middle class, and not look to the future.
the collective greed and selfishness of "The Me Now Generation" doesn't allow people to trust, honor, respect, love or give a chance to those who are different or think differently --- we stop living with hope, grace, peace and love in our hearts and we only live for the present. We can't think positively about others or the future. This allows us to start wars in the name of "being safe" and not do what is right for the environment because "we need oil/coal/gas energy now" (even if it pollutes our air/waters/land and decreases our health), it allows us to forget we are all immigrants in this country and be angry with those with darker skin not born here, etc.

We need to get over our fears and live our dreams/hopes. We need to learn to trust and think about others and the best wishes to Mr. Mc Govern who clearly seems to have already learned this...

Kisha B (5)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 8:33 am
I understand that security is a bit jumpy after the Arizona incident - but they handled that very poorly.Should never give a peaceful, elderly protester who is also a vet bruises when he did nothing violent.

Stephanie Isemann (124)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 9:08 am
That was very uncalled for especially by our government at a political event. How about we give the government something to be scared of. I'm sick of the government and other authority figures getting away with Shit like this. Thanks for the article.

JustaHuman Here (53)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 9:15 am
Do not protest - obey!

Veronica G (1)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 9:48 am
Why are they applauded for protesting for their beliefs in Egypt but when we protest here we are arrested? Even when Obama got on t.v. he applauded them? When the Tea Parties happened Obama denounced them. What is the difference? This is hypocrisy at it's finest!

Past Member (0)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 10:07 am
Lets make one thing clear. The Clintons are not good Democrats anymore. They are elites, acting like elites. Driven by wealth. An 11 million dollar wedding with Haiti donations should make that clear. They crossed the moral line long ago.

Hans M (591)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 10:27 am
A personal opinion, but I think that Bill Clinton was an excellent President. And I wish that Hillary was in office now. Why not give this class warfare thing a break and start focusing on issues that we can do something about.
That is unless someone thinks that wealth redistribution is going to happen. Show me one nation where that has happened.

Melissa O (43)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 10:43 am
it is difificult to remember that we are all on the same side after reading through the comments.

we the People cannot afford to be angry at and bicker with each other -- we have a common enemy, a real and present threat to our well-being on every level. until we can come together, we will serve the beast we loathe.

Emily B (0)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 10:57 am
Noted, thank you

Hans M (591)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 11:00 am
I'd give you a big hug for your comment Melissa if it weren't for some possible Care2 rule. Thank you.

Hannah Theresa Weyland (8)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 11:43 am
Land of the free? I don't think so.

Little Star (56)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 12:18 pm
Many want to go off subject in order to voice their own opinions or agendas. That has always been the acceptable response in America...IN THE PAST.
As far as this incident goes...we are dependent on the reports and video submitted, which does not show the whole incident from inception. If a person merely rose to their feet and turned their back, I would hardly call that a reason for alarm. However, one has to ask..WHY attend a conference, with a speaker you do not respect, unless you had full intention of causing disruption and gaining media attention?
I was born in DC...I am aware of over zealous responses, as I have been a victim of such, while attending an AIM rally for release of Peltier...for that I received a rifle butt to my forehead and a possible jail sentence, as well as , a horrific reprimand from my Family who were all Govt workers. This was many years ago, ( still have the scar to my head to this day) and it seems they are actually tempering their responses currently. Believe me, the reaction could have been far worse. However, I did not hear McGovern utter any words to qualify him as a heckler. So, either we are missing quite a bit of evidence or we are playing into the assumption that he was brutally was the purpose of the media on this incident.
We do not know his motivations for the act he performed. We do not know how it began or what the people involved were assuming would happen. We do not know his physical condition to know if he might have received the visual damage from any source, be it touch, or restraint.
We are headed toward Marshall Law very quickly in this Country and if you are not aware of what is will fall victim to it. BE AWARE and BE CAREFUL. Think before you act and be ready to pay the ultimate price, for you may, in fact, be doing so.
I would need far more information on this, before I could even venture and intelligent with that, I will be silent....for now.

Ian Donelson (149)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 12:32 pm
First those were private security guards not Clinton's or the governments goons. Second, What is she supposed to do scream then run and help em, come on. Third if he was abused and jailed then that has to do with our horrible justice system and nothing to do with conspiracy. Logical Reform not Fear Mongering Conspiracy Theories.

Past Member (0)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 12:50 pm

Robert B (60)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 1:04 pm
Dear Veronica G.,
If the Tea Party had acted in a civil manner they would not have been criticized. But they insisted on acting like jackasses. They shouted other speakers down at town hall meetings, they brought guns to rallies, they had offensive racial posters and in general gave the Tea Party a very bad image. I'm sure some of the Tea Party members are sincere about their protest but it was hijacked by the lunatic fringe.

Robert B (60)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 1:07 pm
I think they should have left Mcgovern alone and as long as he was quietly protesting just let him stand there until it was over.

Past Member (0)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 1:20 pm
How did Orwell put it?

"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others."

Doug C (51)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 2:17 pm
Hans, at the risk of being off topic, I do think we need to focus on class warfare. You ask, show me a country where wealth redistribution has worked. The USA and Canada were once. There used to be good blue collar jobs, and opportunities for advancement. That is why I think we should fight back against those (the rich, powereful, corporatists and the like) who are taking our hard won money and rights and redistributing it amongst themselves. They steal from us the very infrastructure we count on, they manipulate markets and bet on us paying the bill, now they want to steal social security. All in the name of fiscal responsability, a cause they cared not a whit about when Bushpig lied the nation into two trillion dollar wars, while cutting their taxes. We don't want the rich's money, we want them to stop stealing ours. And pay their fair share.

Marie Catterall (11)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 2:26 pm

Carol Reins (99)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 2:26 pm
"We have met the enemy and the enemy is us"

James h (7)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 2:29 pm
to add to what Doug C said, 400 of the top richest families in the US have more wealth than the lower 50% of the US population combined. think about that- 400 families have more waelth than 154 million people. and it's they who get the tax breaks and all the preferential treatment. the biggest thing to call BS on for the republicans and their tax breaks is the rate at which overtime, bonuses, etc. are taxed. It used to be at the regular rate but under the hated Bill Clinton, it was raised to 40%, when has any republican or teabagger EVER suggested dropping that rate back to what it was? NEVER! because they do not represent the worker! they represent the owners be it direct or via stocks. working people can go eff themselves as far as the r/tb- ers go. off topic yes, but still very true.

James h (7)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 2:35 pm
and, I'm beginning to believe we'd have been better off with Hillary than we are with Obama. i had such high hopes for the man but he continues to disappoint. he seems more intent on finding common ground (meaning accepting their terms on everything) with the republicans than helping the people his "yes we can" was supposed to change things for. he's still 10,000 times better than McCain would have been but he has not been forceful enough doing what he said he would. it started with dropping single payer and not explaining healthcare and continues with giving the republicans the taxbreaks for the wealthy. where will it stop?

Jon Stewart (37)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 2:59 pm
I can understand the concern for public safety during an event like this, especially with the AZ shootings still very much on the mind, BUT... the security staff should simply have asked the protester to step to the hallway, run a metal detector around him, and let him re-take his "seat", as long as he wasn't causing a disruption.
Leave the heavy-handed methods of desperate protest suppression to the thugs of regimes about to be justifiably overthrown...that's NOT the way outbursts in/by Congress were handled during President Obama's first SOTU Address, and it's not how Fred Phelps is handled, or how abortion opponents are handled when they are a LOT more offensive.

Susan Pernot (75)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 4:10 pm
Blatant disrespect for Clinton as well as everyone else present. The police went too far and made a big scene out of it.

Past Member (0)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 5:23 pm
The trick to seeing the big picture is getting 30,000 feet away from it. ;)

Ralph F (67)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 5:24 pm
Sadly, I see the nation as, "the former-USA" these days.

Ralph B (8)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 5:31 pm
I heard him making a lot of noise during the attempt to get him to sit down.. He was almost Screaming at the Security.. So People how do you come up with the BS that he was peaceful..??? Also Old People bruise easy.
So come on If you were giving the speech you would have wanted him removed..

Little Star (56)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 6:17 pm
He was QUIET until they were forcing him to sit and then forcibly ejecting him
I have heard far worse outcries and diatribes from protesters...he was actually NOT that loud..
In Native culture it is quite common to turn your back on someone you do not respect when they speak,
but I'm not sure that he knew that about our Culture.

Sheila D (28)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 6:44 pm
So many ideas about what everyone was thinking, but we don't really know. I think we are getting part of the story, and one minute of video does not tell the whole story. There were several good comments, all make sense. So which one do we choose? I'd like to know a little more before deciding who was right, wrong, disrespectful, and/or abusive.

Norm C (74)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 8:03 pm
Standing silently with your back to a speaker is hardly disruptive. Standing as he was, facing much of the crowd and without overcoats, the presumed concern over security is probably overblown. The crowd could have intervened before he could have reached for any possible weapons. But I do not know what was going through the minds of the police any more than any of the rest of us. I don't know if Hilary recognized Mr. McGovern at the time (the lighting may have prevented that), but she knows who he is.

This reminds me of the protest a few years ago at a Bush State of the Union at which a few people were ejected and arrested for wearing t-shirts with a message on them. In a fairly typical overreaction, they also arrested the wife of a Congressman because of her clothing (had nothing to do with the protesters).

It seems to me that we have police forces that have been told to take down anything they do not understand. The arrests in 2008 of Amy Goodman and her cameraman at a house in the Twin Cities as she was interviewing peaceful protest organizers who were in contact with the police about their plans was another unwarranted, unprovoked and unconstitutional arrest and detention. This whole absurdity of "free speech zones" has just allowed authorities to stifle and marginalize peaceful protests without achieving a reasonable security objective.

I did not see any police running up to take down Tea Partiers with AR-15s and semi-automatic pistols outside a venue where Congressmen were speaking. If I remember correctly, the same thing happened at one where the President was speaking. I hope that if the Tea Party events of 2009 and 2010 are repeated, that armed protesters will be escorted safely and respectfully away from the path of public officials.

We have become, in my opinion, a little too much like a country operating under the rule of martial law when it comes to peaceful protests by the left. I do not like it.

William Y (54)
Saturday February 19, 2011, 9:10 pm
Am I missing something? What was McGovern protesting? I am not taking sides on this do to the fact I can't figure what the problem is. There are too many questions and not enough answers.

Carlene V (202)
Sunday February 20, 2011, 7:15 am
Confusing to me. Without seeing the complete video of what happened it is hard to decide. Would like to see Clinton respond to the issue. With Arizona still fresh to all of us, the need to quell a protester is more apparent although he should not have been hurt. The guards have no way of knowing just how far a protester will go so possibly had no other choice.

Melanie Clark (13)
Sunday February 20, 2011, 8:03 pm
Noted. thanks.

Parvez Zuberi (7)
Monday February 21, 2011, 2:35 am
If your Govt do not allow people to express injustice done to them they have all the right to protest ,do not act like Qaddafi of Libya

Charlene Rush (2)
Monday February 21, 2011, 12:58 pm
Silent protests do not disturb me, except if you are standing in front of others, who are trying to benefit from the purpose, of being there.
Had he stood on the side, against a wall, and not interferred with the right of others, that's fine. He has every right to do that.

Your rights end, when you intrude upon another's.

The fact that he had minor injuries, should not have happened; they WOULD not have happened, had he gone along, without protest. When you fight the authorities, you almost always, lose.

Let's face it, he achieved his purpose.

Janis B (7)
Tuesday February 22, 2011, 10:21 am
Hauling him out probably did his cause a lot of good. He stood in the steps of people like the suffragettes and the civil rights marchers. Hope his bruises are not too bad. Sounds awfully like some of the heavy handed tactics used in other protests.
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