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No, Entrepreneurs Like Steve Jobs Do Not 'Create Jobs' By Inventing Products Like The IPhone Read More: Http://Www.Businessinsi

Business  (tags: americans, consumers, corporate, economy, Entrepreneurs, government, marketing, technology, jobs, Steve jobs )

- 2356 days ago -
As I explained yesterday, this argument is absurd for many reasons, starting with: Taxes on rich people are already historically low relative to other (very prosperous) periods, and

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Roger G (154)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 12:15 pm
noted, thanks ! blackmail about jobs has been used for eons !

Nancy M (197)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 1:48 pm
Well, at least since the days of Reagan. But maybe I just wasn't paying attention before that.

Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:30 pm
Well let see if the American people are starting to get it Giving more tax cuts to the rich do not creates jobs. I sure hope so. 2012 will be directionwe will go. Will Obama take 2012 Will this be the demorcats turn to take the country for the next 20 yrs or so? Will Elizabeth Warren get the senator seat in 2012? If so will she become the frist female president in 2016? Yes i can see the the change Obama talked about in 2008. Change comes to those stay the course. The Republians may get what they have feared the most.

. (0)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:37 pm
So, tax the rich more already so people can stop using that as an excuse and get to real issues. It's still not going to affect our deficit and runaway spending and lack of jobs.
Anyhow, what if nothing was invented? All jobs would be only in the 'really to need' category like food, medicine, etc.

. (0)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:38 pm
You can have a consumer. But, if you don't have a product...

Nancy M (197)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:39 pm
If nothing new as invented, we would still have all the products we have now. They woulds till need to be made. There would still be jobs. But as the article says- the entrepeneurs really would still be entrepeneurs because that is what they want to do.

But it does seem to me that all those tax cuts haven't caused any jobs to be made either. And the graphs seem to support that idea.

Katii L (124)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:43 pm
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. (0)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:44 pm
And, the consumer had a want for the IPad. Steve Jobs made the product to fill a consumer need. They already had a phone and a computer. We are not talking about a third world country that doesn't have the money to buy an Iphone. We are talking about American jobs.
What I really would have wished to read from this author was all his side bar "(well, that's another issue)" of jobs overseas to create the product for American consumers.

Katii L (124)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:50 pm
What tax cuts? Corporate taxes are still what... 35%? It's at least in large part because of U.S. corporate tax rates that mfg jobs were moved overseas. Another factor is that American wages can not compete with the low wages paid to workers in emerging economy countries. That fact really throws a monkey into the mix and it's something none of our 'over lords' ever talk about. I don't know what can be done about that factor that would help American workers.

I would argue with the article about what is causing the decline of the middle class being "tax rates." I would argue that the cause of the decline of the middle class is the deflation/devaluation of our dollar = inflation, which wages are not tracking, and the absolute corruption in government known as "crony capitalism." There is not rule of law in government anymore. That is our biggest problem as far as the economy and the decline of the middle class goes.


Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:56 pm
Tax the rich so they pay just like the rest of us. Why should they get the golden ticket of free pass? Because if it were not for the people who buy there products. They would not be the in the shoe box of the I can do anything just ask that person who will lick my foot. So you go now you are not important. Give me a break. Get real. What comes around goes around

Nancy M (197)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:58 pm
Katii- it does track all of the tax cuts and increases since the end of the WWII. 35% is right up there with Japan and Germany. Two countries that make and export great products.

iPAD? There were similar things on the market on the PC side but mainly it is a more affordable version of a computer too. So people can afford to buy on on what they make (versus my much larger and more expensive Mac which is now 2 yrs old and probably won't be replaced in the very near future).

This is the second in a series BTW- might be worth checking out the first.

In any case, I am enjoying all the comments very much. Green star for everyone.

Nancy M (197)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 2:59 pm
Mambear- that sounds more like closing the loopholes rather than raising taxes. I'd like to see loopholes closed first.

Sunday December 11, 2011, 3:04 pm
Capitalism has been the way of our ecomony for years and years. And yes it still the rule of law. That is why we need to go forward and not backwards. Because the rule of law is changing and the republians/tea party are starting to lose it. The time for change has come

Katii L (124)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 3:07 pm
"Apple Employees:

As of September 24, 2011, the Company had approximately 60,400 full-time equivalent employees and an additional 2,900 full-time equivalent temporary employees and contractors."

I don't know if the number refers to U.S. Apple employees or includes employees outside the U.S., the entry didn't specify. But if only half of them are in the U.S. then that is hardly "no jobs created."

Unemployment numbers seem to be adversely affected by the very nature of technology as well, it takes far fewer people to produce more product than the hard-core manufacturing of old:

Katii L (124)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 3:17 pm
Germany's corporate tax rate is 29.8% - but you aren't seeing u.s. companies rushing to Germany to set up shop.

Japan's corp. tax rate is 40.69%.

What Japan and Germany have in common with the U.S. is that nobody is rushing to open up shop to do business in these countries.

What we all share in common as well is "no free market capitalism" and that all three countries prop up it's failing economy with debt. In a free market failing businesses would be allowed to fail and either sold off or shut down with the void being filled by a more innovative, creative, efficient and/or a whole new product (like electric car company company v. combustion engine car company) and be replaced with a new business. Government intervention in the market costs us new jobs.

Nancy M (197)
Sunday December 11, 2011, 3:55 pm
The article discusses that fact that newer and more efficient technologies sometimes destroy older industries and thus actually destroy jobs. I t also look at who is buying. Where are the markets. As fewer people are able to buy certain kinds of products, those new innovations won't go to market because there won't be enough to afford them.

Right now, not every many people are out buying new cars.

Sunday December 11, 2011, 4:32 pm
Nancy, Closing loop holes will raise the top % tax. My guess is that is one of the republians talking points and why they are so aganist it. And why Obama is having a hard time getting it done. Loop holes and tax cuts come hand and hand

Sunday December 11, 2011, 4:37 pm
You hit the nail on the button

that fact that newer and more efficient technologies sometimes destroy older industries and thus actually destroy jobs

It is becoming out with old and in with new Just like the Post office becoming more and more obsolete.

Nancy M (197)
Monday December 12, 2011, 6:53 am
Closing the loopholes will bring in more money. In a sense it will raise the percentage that these companies are paying. It will bring it up to the official rate- rather than being less than it is because of the loopholes. Might look better on paper to some.

Barb Knight (1688)
Monday December 12, 2011, 8:59 am
Tax tax tax.....that's all the government can think about; how to squeeze more money out of the middle class and the poor who were once prominent lawyers now living on the streets because they can't find a job. Quick Draw MaCall could do better than the nuts we have in Congress and he's a cartoon! Thnx Nancy!

MmAway M (505)
Monday December 12, 2011, 9:51 am
Thank you Nancy!

Bryan S (105)
Monday December 12, 2011, 11:21 am
Great article Nancy (and thanks for the new link).

Indeed, it is a healthy economy that creates jobs, not the already rich getting more money. People should understand that demand is not the same as wishing or wanting. A million iphones in a poverty stricken part of the world creates no jobs.
And demand in a healthy economy is still there regardless of the existence of new technology.

Not to say that entrepreneurs don't contribute to society, unlike financiers who make millions shuffling money around in complex transactions, or large corporations exploiting the cheapest, i.e. most vulnerable, labor and resources.

Nancy M (197)
Monday December 12, 2011, 11:26 am
There is a difference too between a true entrepeneur and the CEOs who today are"earning" excessive amounts of money by ruining our economy. And those "geniusus" seem to have forgotten that that can't do business at all if their employees don't make enough to buy the products.

Patrice M (84)
Monday December 12, 2011, 12:42 pm
Thank you, Nancy, for bringing this truth out in the open here on care2. The job creators are creating jobs all right - in China!

Tahiti S (16)
Monday December 12, 2011, 12:47 pm
What it comes down to is that if you don't have a product to sell, there are no jobs, no economy, no bread on the table.

Nancy's right about there being a very clear difference between a true entrepreneur and the CEO who's earning staggering amounts of compensation.

But then, to be fair, why shouldn't CEO's earn at the same exhorbitant salary as a movie star or a pro ball player? {Just being fair here.] Like some highly compensated celebrities, some CEO's are "Academy Award Winners" and are rewarded astronomic amounts of money for being so.

Steve Jobs was in a class all its own. He was a visionary and there are few visionaries in this country. His one idea would inspire other manufacturers [MORE jobs] to develop look alikes.

At the end of the day, there are relatively few CEO's who make unbelievable salaries and compensation.....compared to the rest of the US population. Not even on the radar screen.

As for taxing them at the same rate the middle class - well, tell me why CEO should pay so much more for [e.g.] police service than the middle man.

Without capitalism there would be no handouts to those in need. We must never lose sight of that.


Nancy M (197)
Monday December 12, 2011, 1:00 pm
What I have more of a problem with is the rates at which CEO salaries have increased despite how poorly managed those very same "too big to fail" companies are. Take away the bonus and keep jobs here. (Ignoring the few good ones here)

Athletes at least have to get out there, stay in shape, and perform. Though I grant you that it does hurt the little guy if the popcorn sales people don't work because of strikes.

Actors? Well, they get paid per movie. They MAY never work again after that. But again, if they get too uppity so to speak, the little can guy get hurt just the same.

CEO and police protection? Well, they do OWN a whole lot more stuff and have more to lose.

Fiona Ogilvie (565)
Monday December 12, 2011, 1:11 pm
Thank you, Nancy, for exposing another GOP lie.

Kit B (276)
Monday December 12, 2011, 1:42 pm

Excellent article, based on sound fiscal thinking that is both clear and concise. The facts presented in a format that even those without a heavy background in finance or economics, can understand. That is if they are not fully brain-washed into believing the oppositional nonsense out there.

I fully agree with Nancy's statement about the salaries and bonus systems for those who have shown themselves as either fully incompetent or just thieves.
Fortunately we do not live in Ayn Rand land - a fantasy world of deluded thinking.

This from the article summation nails the reality:

"Entrepreneurs and investors do not create the jobs in our economy. The economy itself creates the jobs. and it does this most effectively when it is healthy, meaning that all of the key components, including the middle class, have enough disposable income that they can buy what our companies produce.

Henry Ford is legendary for his decision to make sure he paid his rank-and-file production workers enough that they would be able to afford the company's cars. This decision was not just based on kindness and generosity. Ford knew that his employees would become his customers--and that without his customers, he wouldn't have a company."

Thanks for this, Nancy.


Nancy M (197)
Monday December 12, 2011, 1:46 pm
Henry Ford was a far better entrepeneur than perhaps Steve Jobs prior to the iPhone and iPOD. the originla Macs (which I use and love) are too expensive.

Thanks Kit!

pam w (139)
Monday December 12, 2011, 5:33 pm

KS Goh (0)
Tuesday December 13, 2011, 5:23 am
Thanks for the article.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 13, 2011, 6:21 am
Thanks ... I'm left wondering what create jobs - wasteful government spending? Creating products that cost too much so we import cheaper ones?

Phil R (29)
Wednesday December 14, 2011, 8:40 pm
"Apple's building of a better mousetrap, in other words, did not suddenly "create jobs." It moved the jobs. It moved the jobs from the companies that were making the older mousetraps to the one that was making the better mousetrap (and, in this case, it mostly moved them to Asia"

This is what has been happening in American for the last 30 years. When there IS a new invention, where are the jobs "created"? Most of Apples' products come from how did Steve Jobs' inventions provide more work for Americans?

Nancy M (197)
Thursday December 15, 2011, 4:48 am
Great point Phil. We no longer make televisions (My Dads field), we no longer make typewriter, we no longer make clothing, we barely still make other electronics and out lightbulbs are about to disappear. We still do make pharmaceuticals and some computers. Oh yeah, and those cars.

And all completely consistent with the bad business practices of the past thirty years- all our products are made other places where they themselves most likely can't afford to buy them. Pretyy soon Americans won't be able to afford them. Adn if "rich" Americans can't, who can?

Not a good business model at all.
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