Thursday August 20, 2009, 10:52 am
Sad in all ways.

Thursday August 20, 2009, 10:58 am
Obviously Alonzo needed help, couldn't they think of a better way of giving him the help that he was begging for?

Yes, agreed he had a rifle, but the police have sharpshooters, or they could have wounded him the leg, no, they kill him instead, easy way out...May this poor soul find peace now.

Truly sad is right Simone...in all ways.

Thank you Terry for the article, as sad as it is, people should know. Noted as well.

In peace,
FreeSpiritRunning...

Thursday August 20, 2009, 11:07 am
Thanks Terry

Thursday August 20, 2009, 11:32 am
http://tennessean.com/article/20090804/NEWS03/90804018/0/COLUMNIST0501/Police-fired-59-gunshots-at-man-threatening-suicide-

CHATTANOOGA — Six Chattanooga police officers fired at least 59 shots in killing an armed man who was threatening "suicide by cop" and the police chief said Tuesday they acted properly.

"We are saying that our people did what we trained them to do," chief Freeman Cooper told Chattanooga radio station WGOW in a live telephone interview Tuesday.
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Police said Alonzo Heyward, 32, had roamed around his neighborhood and a restaurant parking lot for about five hours carrying a rifle and threatening to shoot himself before they were called.

Heyward's brother, James Heyward, has said his brother was distressed about not seeing his children.

The six officers were placed on temporary administrative leave following the predawn July 18 shooting. Cooper said Tuesday that an investigation was continuing.

Police released the count of 59 gunshots after a Hamilton County Medical Examiner's office report Monday showed that Heyward's body had 43 bullet entry and exit wounds. The medical examiner's office said some bullets could have caused multiple wounds and a still-to-be completed autopsy report would include those details.

Police spokeswoman Kim Noorbergen said Tuesday that relatives and friends had been "trying to talk him back in" before police were called.

"There was the potential there for anybody to be in danger," Noorbergen said. "You've got a distraught man carrying a .44 Magnum rifle. Anybody who is around is in danger."

The first arriving officers responded to a report of men wrestling over a rifle in the street. Noorbergen said those men turned out to be Heyward's brother and a friend.

The chief said Heyward had put the weapon down but picked it up when officers arrived.

"His whole intention was to be killed by police," Cooper told WGOW.

Police spokeswoman Jerri Weary after the shooting described it as an apparent "suicide by cop." She said the officers followed Heyward as he walked from the restaurant to the porch of his house, attempted to use a Taser and shot Heyward when he refused to drop the rifle and pointed it.

Cooper said audio recordings from the pre-dawn shooting reveal that all shots were fired in a span of 30 seconds and included three volleys of gunfire, interrupted as officers repeated commands for Heyward to drop the rifle. Cooper said the simultaneous reactions of all six officers shows they acted properly.

"They only fired when they were presented with a threat," he said.

It is a shame when anyone dies..especially for the family..But you just can't read one story and know the whole..

I do believe this was a case of "suicide by cops" Meaning that Alonzo Heyward was so distraught that he knew what he was doing by refusing to put down the weapon..and not only pointing the weapon at officers..but threatening to shoot..

I also think that families have a responsibility when someone they love is displaying behavior such as threatening suicide..drinking..drinking and driving..depression..They are all deadly situations..and someone is bound to get hurt sooner or later..Had the family sought help for Alonzo..perhaps he would have been treated in a mental hospital and gotten some help..

You can't allow someone to run a muck with a weapon..under distress and expect a good ending..

A very sad and unfortunate ending..But I do not believe the police are to blame for this..They did their job as they are trained to..

Thanks Terry..
Sadly noted..

Thursday August 20, 2009, 11:33 am
Thannxxx. just a pity they went about the wrong way of doing this... a person in this state needs someone special to bring them outta the dark hol that they are in.

Thursday August 20, 2009, 12:22 pm
Chaz..I disagree the police went about this the wrong way..Not sure what way anyone thinks they could have gone..But I do agree it is a sad shame that no one got this man the help he truly needed..Had they done so..perhaps this never would have gotten to the point it did..

I just think it is so important..especially when one threatens suicide..that those around him/her take heed to the very serious warning signs..

And to make matters even worse this young man displayed many dangerous warning signs..Sadly family..friends did nothing to help him..I read in this story how the father said he never had mental issues..

Denial helps no one..Sorry but we just can't wish away mental illnesses..There is nothing to be ashamed of..and sadly many still are when it comes to mental disorders..

Some always seem to just blame the police in these cases..I guess for some that is easier..However sadly that will never change the outcome..
Police are called to protect the law and the public..and when confronted by anyone waving a weapon..threatening to harm themselves and others..There is little police can do but stop the sisutaion by whatever means they have..
That is their job..

Thursday August 20, 2009, 12:25 pm
Such a terrible tragedy that probably could have been prevented. Sadly noted. Thanks Terry.

Thursday August 20, 2009, 1:47 pm
Noted Terry Thanks

Thursday August 20, 2009, 2:27 pm
Sady noted. I think the family of the man should have intervened. I have two police officers in my family, one in MI and the other in FLA. Just yesterday in FLA. a 28 year old officer was killed by a man who had a gun in a book bag and fired killing the officer, a man with two small children. No one seems to think it sad when a young police officer is killed by a deranged man with a gun fired through a book bag. The decisions these officers make must often be made in a split second.

Thursday August 20, 2009, 2:31 pm
I couldn't agree more Jean..

Thursday August 20, 2009, 3:41 pm
Terry thank you so much for posting this story, this man should have been helped, we too often think that that our officers can do nothing other than shoot to kill, this man, I did not read anywhere that he made he threatening move towards anyone, am I missing something in this article? so so sad.

Thursday August 20, 2009, 3:57 pm
and just so there is no doubt, I am definitely disturbed when any officer, young or old, is killed in the line of their duty.

Thursday August 20, 2009, 4:02 pm
I absolutely agree this young should have been helped..and by no means does or would anyone expect any officer to just shoot to kill..and that is certainly not what they do..However.. we also should not expect any LE to be a psychiatrist either.. That is not their job..

The family of this man knew he had serious problems..stemming from drinking..divorce..lack of seeing his children..He had a criminal record as well..And with his recent threats of suicide his family should have know he was on the edge..And yet they did nothing to help him..

He refused to put down his weapon..and he threatened to shoot..And if the police did nothing..then they would be slammed for that..

They did what they are trained to do in these situations..It is sad it came to that but that is what happened when people are mentally imbalanced and have a weapon and threaten themselves and or others..

Thursday August 20, 2009, 7:14 pm
I honestly appreciate your comments Dee, I didn't know the whole story, thanks.

In saying that, I will have to agree with you about Alonzo not wanting to put the rifle down, by not doing so, that he was definately a threat to himself, people around him, also to the police asking him to put it down.

However, I did state in my comment that they could have shot him in the leg to stop him, as the police do have sharpshooters trained as well just for these type of dire situations where everyones life is involved.

I would like everyone here to know that this is my opinion only, thank you.

Peacefully as always,
FreeSpirit...

Thursday August 20, 2009, 7:57 pm
.
Officers, this would have been a good time to use your Tasers!

Thursday August 20, 2009, 8:17 pm
"Officers, this would have been a good time to use your Tasers! "

They did try the taser on him first..When that failed to stop him..They took the next only action they could..

Thursday August 20, 2009, 8:24 pm
They have crowd control Tasers that would have reached him even from a great distance. I cannot say that I believe they did not have other Taser options.

Furthermore, there are sharpshooters, as FreeSpirit said, Dee.

Thursday August 20, 2009, 8:26 pm
I also said that these discussions are bypassing FACEBOOK, at least on my end, and I want to know why.

Thursday August 20, 2009, 8:44 pm
Mary..with all due respect..Tasers only reach so far..and that was attempted..As for sharp shooters..They are like Swat..and they do not go on regular 911 calls..They are called in special for these cases..

This all went down so fast that there was not any time to wait for sharp shooters..or swat or anything..These police officers had to act on the situation they were dealing with..and they did their job as well as they could..

Perhaps if someone had called in sooner there could have been more time toreact in a better way..By the time the officers were called..the situation was quite out of control..And to not further endanger their own lives or the lives of innocent bystanders..they did what had to be done..

You don't have to agree..nor does anyone..but those are ther true fact in this story..

Thursday August 20, 2009, 9:16 pm
Come on, Dee. Nothing "goes down too fast for Swat."

When the naked NY mental patient, Inman Morales, was Tasered by police and made to fall from his second-story ledge and die, they said it happened too fast to get a mattress underneath the balcony before Tasering him, but the truth was the man would have stayed there until a mattress was fetched.

Inman Morales Story and VIDEO of his death -

http://www.nowpublic.com/health/suicide-taser-death-mental-patient-leads-ny-police-officer-choose-death

Swat is not so far away in Chattanooga that they could not reach Alonzo in minutes, Dee. If this had been a bank hostage situation, they would have been called. As you say, Swat is not called except for "special" cases, and a sick black man is anything but special in America.

My family knows that better than anyone. Read http://wrongfuldeathoflarryneal.com

Mary

Thursday August 20, 2009, 9:23 pm
Mary..I am very sorry that you always feel the need to not only make these stories a racial issue..but to bash LE as well..
This is Terry's news story..and for you to post your personal stories on it is improper..and off topic as well..
It is wrong of you to do any of that..

I hope you will cease doing it..

Thursday August 20, 2009, 10:42 pm
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including personal stories which relate, and law enforcement consistently uses excessive force and handles many situations inappropriately and yes they are very quick to do this with young black males. Yes, there are very powerful tasers, some moreso than others and some made to kill even. They can do the job. Proper training of law enforcement officers entails teaching the officers how to handle just this type of situation in a calm, patient and compassionate manner because it is their job to protect everyone, especially someone threatening suicide. This is handled appropriately in many situations and swat teams are called in when necessary as has happened here in Kansas City recently in precisely such deals as what is listed above and yes the men threatening were heavily armed (moreso than the above listed) and some held hostages but the situations were handled appropriately and the police here spent the hours and hours and negotiations that it took to resolve everything peacefully, and in the end, NOBODY was hurt. If officers are not willing or able to do this, they have no business in law enforcement. In a situation of danger as listed above, the officers should have retreated when their initial attempts to disarm the man did not work and called in other professionals to help. Actually they should have not been that close to him to begin with. If they had been stupid enough to have placed themselves in a line of direct fire from this man - it is still a big error on thier part. This is not how such a situation is appropriately handled. I have seen many situations such as this handled appropriately and know enough about law enforcement that you cannot tell me that this was unavoidable. It is very interesting that so many of these encounters gone wrong with murderous results just happen to happen in the state of Tennessee. I suppose that you will lump that together with the racial thing, but the truth is the truth. Law enforcement needs to be bashed here. Sorry but I know officers who find this a disgrace too and find these stories very shameful to their profession and sadly so. It hurts them on a level deeper than the rest of us and causes a great deal of stress for the guys and gals out there who do really care and are trying to do the job right. This is Terry's story and Terry has not said anything objectionable here regarding Mary's remarks. Your last remark Dee was about nothing but bashing Mary and this was off topic and improper. I hope you will cease doing it. About the man's "mental health" issues...right now many, many, many people are having problems that are not considered clinically mentally ill but have become terribly depressed due to severe stresses in their lives. Law enforcement is going to be having a lot of encounters with people threatening suicide until conditions in this country improve to a point where such a large percentage of the population is not suffering severely and they need to handle them appropriately. In areas where they are not yet capable of this, they need to get there and quickly. It is the business of law enforcement to protect ALL citizens from harm, particularly those having problems. Mental health is a big part of their business. They are in the business of protecting people. It goes with the territory. Most would not argue this point. It IS part of their training, at least where I come from. Trigger happy cops are an extreme danger to the public they are supposed to be protecting, so there is an ironic comparison regarding this man being dangerous with his gun and the reality that actually happened. 59 bullets? No way is this justifiable. There are witnesses who refute the testimony of the police here and they probably wouldn't be if the police were telling the WHOLE truth. There are many cases where the police do have to kill someone and the family and friends although very sad about the situation don't do this because there were no lies to begin with. It is my opinion that there was an injustice done here. Respect my right to post this and also Mary's right to post hers which I happen to agree with. Police brutality and racism are big issues in America today and this is not off topic. It is exactly what the news post is about.

Friday August 21, 2009, 1:16 am
poor soul noted

Friday August 21, 2009, 1:55 am
I love it when one jumps in and talks about stuff they no little to nothing of..

About your remarks on Tasers..A few corrections..

"Tasers are hand-held weapons that deliver a jolt of electricity through a pair of wires propelled by compressed air from up to 10.6 meters away.

There are two main types of stun guns made by Taser used by law enforcement agencies:

M26: A high-powered weapon marketed to police forces to stop "highly combative individuals." A burst of compressed nitrogen launches two small probes attached to the device by conductive wires. From as far as 10.6 meters, the device transmits electrical pulses through the wires to immobilize a person. Also has a laser sight for aiming.


X26: A smaller model introduced in 2003. Launches two small probes as far as 10.6 meters."


Tasers are made to allow police officers to subdue violent individuals without killing them.. They are not made to kill..Not sure where you got that one from..

So a LE agent would have to be at least that close to his suspect..as would his back-up need to be there as well..to take down suspect and confiscate any weapon..They were not stupid.. nor too close..They did as they are taught and trained to do..and do what they must to ensure public safety..as well as their own..

More about Tasers..
"News reports will often quote the voltage delivered by a Taser — up to 50,000 volts. That sounds like a lot of electricity, but it's a misleading way of expressing the power a Taser uses.

Tasers are designed to incapacitate a person through up to five centimetres of clothing. Taser International says the electrical pulse is delivered at a high voltage because the electric current has to pass through clothing and air — neither of which is a good conductor of electricity — to make a complete circuit with the target's skin.

Taser International also says that while its device can deliver up to 50,000 volts, it does not deliver that much voltage to a person's body. The company says its Advanced Taser M26 delivers an average of 1,500 volts.

As well, the high-voltage pulse of a Taser is said to carry only a small current, typically 0.002 to 0.03 amps."

Now about Law Enforcement..Get to know more about law enforcement before you judge the job..And not just what you think you know..

And or talk about what they should or should not do..

You are not a LE agent..you are not in their situation..and that makes it very easy to sit back safely out of harms way and judge what they should have done..but again it is only your opinion..It is not factual..


It doesn't matter how many situations turn out good..and It is great that some do..however not all do and all the circumstances are always different in every single situation..there is no way the outcome will always be a good one..Too many unforeseen aspects in it..


As for being racist..In every walk of life..regardless of one's job...there are racists among us..So..lets say one is a nurse..and there is another nurse at that job that is a racist does that mean ALL nurses are a racist..

I have no doubt there are racists in LE..however that does not mean ALL..

I wasn't bashing anyone..nor was I disrespectful to Mary..Just stating my opinion on the many news stories that Mary has submitted as being extremely biased..And the stories give very little truthful details that happened..When searching for more details in some of her stories..it indeed paints a whole new clear picture..very different from what was actually posted..Same with video's..They have been edited..cut off..to hide the full account..That is not only biased..but dishonest..And there are websites that deliberately post the shaded/biased versions of these stories..because they promote police bashing..The internet is becoming a haven for police bashing..And though anyone has the privilege of posting whatever they deem as news worthy..One reading that news also has the privilege of discussing and or debating it..

And considering that no one here has ever actually stepped into the shoes of LE.. or are willing to do the job they do..which by the way for the most part is a thankless job..I would strongly suggest that one take the time to get to know more about a job and about the people who do the job..Do not put them all in the same box and treat them the same..Do not make up you mind based on one or two cases..or only on what you have heard/or read..I just think people are making a big mistake if they do..

These are people who have made a conscious decision to do a job that very few want or dare to do..But that doesn't stop some from bashing them every chance they get..
Sad..but seems typical of some here..And most cops I know agree that they are constantly bashed without any due cause..And they also are readily able to admit that there are bad cops out there..Just like there are bad teachers..nurses..doctors..judges..cashiers..you name it they have them..That doesn't make the whole lot of them bad..But for the most part they are decent..caring and do their job..despite the constant flack they get..

Sadly so..is the fact that few cops get the respect they deserve..They are underpaid to do society's most unsavory work and they are expected to take significant risks..They are out there to keep us safe..but when they stop one for speeding they are resented and trashed..When some drug crazed person refusing to cooperate gets tased..Its immediately called police brutality..

As for their training..it has always been through both informal and formal interactions..LE officers have expanded their framework for understanding the effects of violence and have developed alternative strategies for responding to the often challenging behaviors of those whom they expect to protect and serve..Officers have increased their ability to recognize situations where referral for mental health consultation is warranted..And they are more than willing to get this training ..because it helps them to be better equipped in their line of work..

A lot of these mental health issues will remain long after the economy gets better..It is what it is..sadly so..

Again family and friends need to take better steps to help their loved ones..You don't just let someone you care about run a muck not only endangering themselves..but many others as well..And someone with a weapon..loaded and locked..drunk and threatening suicide and or pointing that weapon at anyone..people like that need to be under a mental health care provider..not running loose on the streets in neighbors..with people/children..

Now how about you go out and see how well you could handle that..Of course you are going to say.."but I am not a cop"..
Case in point..



Every Dept..does indeed go for training on many things..and certainly do have training on mental health matters among the public..and each dept receives updates and changes covered in a 1,000-page manual..which already addresses how and when officers should fire their weapons and how they should act during arrests and police chases..among other topics..dealing specifically with mental health suspects/criminals..LE training classes are mandatory several times throughout each year..as is weapon qualification..

But again..each and every situation is different..as will the final outcome be in each case..

We would all like to think and hope all situations would turn out well..however that is not the reality in this life..No more than a doctor can save a patients life every time..

As for opinions..yes.. you have yours..Mary has hers..and I have mine..No dispute there..
But personally I think it is improper to post one's personal news/stories on another persons news..And I am just as entitled as anyone else here to say what I feel and think..

As for anyone posting..whether I agree with one's posting or not..they still have the right to post..As do I..So not sure what your problem was and why you are suggesting I told anyone to not post..or would not accept your post..How silly..
I simply stated a response to Mary..(not you) and said I "hoped she would cease the biased racism..as well as pasting her personal news here..That isn't the same as "telling someone to stop"

I just think forwards/shares/blogs are better suited to advertise your news..and not do so on one's news stories..Again...that is just my own personal opinion..I wasn't speaking for Terry..Nor should you..

" Police brutality and racism are big issues in America today"
Again that is only your opinion..and opinions are not facts..

And though I do not say there is none..but just because one screams racism and or police brutality...does not make it so..Just look at the gates case..It was a joke..As was the grandmother who cried police brutality..

What you won't see here in the news stories..are the good news stories where cops have saved lives..And there are many..But I guess they do not get the attentions..notes..as well as the bad news headlines..
I like to read the news stories..but when they seem a bit jaded..I search for more details..And 9 out of 10 always have a different tune..

And as for most of the witness who refute so much..well a crowd watching is very different from the reality of being direct in it..Very different..

Friday August 21, 2009, 11:41 am
The police are out of control... There was absolutely no need for this kind of excessive shooting. I do hope there is legal action taken against these officers however I seriously doubt it.

You notive the feds dont even keep track of the numbers of "suicide by cop" instances that occur every year. it would look extremely bad on law enforcement if they did.

Back in the early 80's in Fairfax Virginia I had the unfortuate experience of watching a friend of mine blow his head of with a sawed off shot gun while police surrounded him in a parking lot. I begged police to just back off and allow me to speak with him. I was only 16 and they were screaming at me, but he would have talked to me andwould have never hurt me, he was just scared.... but the police kept closing in on him and he pulled the trigger.

Law enforcement needs to be trained to deal with peole who are suicidle, or have an expert on hand who can. Murdering mentally ill people is not an acceptable answer!

Friday August 21, 2009, 3:20 pm
Police should be held accountable for this unexcuseable shooting and violence!

Friday August 21, 2009, 9:46 pm
Dee,

I was not speaking of something I know little or nothing about, quite the contrary ,just for the record. I do know law enforcement officers who have been close family friends for most of my life, also know judges and prosecuting attorneys as well as others in political positions along with having lawyers in my family. I am not so far removed from which I speak. As for law enforcement officers not being here on Care2, this also is not true - there are law enforcement personnel who are members of Care2. I am far from anti LE, if you read my message carefully you would see this. I do happen to believe though that when a law enforcement officer acts inappropriately that the punishments should be much, much harsher than what they are. When someone in a position responsible for upholding law and order breaks the law, their penalties should be even worse than it would be for the average individual as they definitely know the law. There are many wonderful people involved in law enforcement but one bad cop can do a lot of damage and when you get a whole group of irresponsible people who should never have been allowed into the field to begin with together - look out. Certain areas are known for their bad law enforcement just the same as there is corruption in any field and certain companies are well known for being very corrupt. I agree with you on many points. I disagree with you on others. This is not a personal thing. Not at all. We do not have enough law enforcement officers in this country to adequately protect the public They are highly underpaid and overstressed. They are undervalued and disrespected. This is true. It certainly doesn't help their reputation though when they act in a manner which so many find so disturbing. The facts can and will generally be disputed in these cases. It is not always the public who is wrong. Blindful loyalty with regards to law enforcement is dangerous, as is blind loyalty to anyone in a position of power - especially in today's world. I have seen law enforcement officers do wonderful work and this does also get news coverage. I have unfortunately been all too aware of way too many cases where they acted inappropriately. This of course is going to make the news too and when it does will get much more attention because it is so upsetting to people. Really it's not a black and white issue (I'm not speaking of race here) but with many areas of gray. It is complex. As with almost anything else in this country, law enforcement needs help. In order to be able to do their job appropriately, they need more funding. Doesn't help when people vote out a very small percentage of a sales tax increase to put a few more officers in their area and then they complain when stuff goes wrong. I don't like it that they pair a couple of rookies together instead of a rookie with a seasoned older cop with much more field experience who the younger one could learn much from. Sadly they send younger guys out all the time either on their own or with someone else with little experience in the field. As in most fields, LE has gone downhill over the years. I have witnessed things with my own eyes which shocked me and been treated rudely be police when the encounter was not even about me even though I was very respectful to them and this would not have been the case thirty years ago. I am saddened by this. Closing our eyes to the wrongs happening around us or making excuses for the mistakes of these people does not help to change the problem. It only worsens it. It is my opinion that this case was handled very inappropriately and there are people in LE who happen to agree with me. Media reports are always skewed in today's world. You can find all kinds of different versions of the same event. Some facts are pretty hard though to deny or accept. 59 shots is totally insane. The LE I know find this just as shocking as I do. There are a lot of unhappy people on both sides of this fence. This is a very sad and disturbing story. I will not argue with you on what the taser companies state regarding their products. They are of course going to say what is in their own best interest. I will not argue any other points either. (Pointless to just banter it back and forth but I am not speaking of anything of which I know nothing of, this is for sure). To me, 59 shots says it all. I also have the unfortunate knowledge of cops who became cops just so they could do what they do to people and freely admit it to people who know them. I have heard it with my own ears, face to face. I know quite a bit but I'm not going to go into my whole life's history here. This isn't about me and if it were not for having to defend myself against the accusation for speaking of which I supposedly know nothing of, I wouldn't have mentioned most of this. There is so much more though. Please don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, If I don't know anything about a subject, generally I stay out of the conversation and just follow it so as to learn from others who do. As far as my sticking up for Mary, I'm tired of seeing her attacked for what I consider to be great work and words on her part. I treasure her posts. I am very thankful to Terry for posting this story. This was a very good post. I hope appropriate action is taken against the officers for at least the most obvious offense, which is use of excessive force. It would be wrong to let this go with out any reprimand whatsoever. My feelings are it should go much deeper but to do nothing is the very worst they can do here.

Friday August 21, 2009, 10:06 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Jillyanne because you have done so within the last week.

Friday August 21, 2009, 10:08 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Terry because you have done so within the last week.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 3:55 am
Oh Lord have mercy when will people learn that anyone who is psychotic,depressed or schizophrenic needs a different approach!!
At the moment when the person is psychotic or depressed they are not in a right frame of mind they want to commit suicide and the best approach is a psychologist or even better a psychiatrist.Even a pastor might help!

Saturday August 22, 2009, 8:19 am
Very sad, but this person should of seeked some help, and others should of listened carefully as this is always a warning sign

Saturday August 22, 2009, 11:32 am
"Back in the early 80's in Fairfax Virginia I had the unfortuate experience of watching a friend of mine blow his head of with a sawed off shot gun while police surrounded him in a parking lot. I begged police to just back off and allow me to speak with him. I was only 16 and they were screaming at me, but he would have talked to me andwould have never hurt me, he was just scared.... but the police kept closing in on him and he pulled the trigger."

Barb..I am really sorry you had to witness such a thing..However..it would have been absolutely irresponsible and totally inappropriate of any LE to allow a 16 year old child near any one with a weapon threatening suicide..

Saturday August 22, 2009, 12:46 pm
Jillyanne...I never said there were no LE officers here in Care2..I know several here who are..I was referring to this thread and many of those who do bash LE..and they are not LE..I would love to see a member who is LE come forth and give their opinion..And I mean a real one..not just someone say they are..You would certainly hear pretty much what I am saying..

Clearly you knew nothing about tasers..your first post showed that..Training..again you made incorrect statements in that as well..As for defending yourself..sorry you felt the need to do so..As you said if you don't know something..you try to learn..well that is a good thing..we all should do that..and not be so defensive when we are wrong..

I don't need your history..nor do you need mine..but again I will say..unless you are in their shoes..out there doing their job..no one has the right to judge..No one knows what their training is or isn;t..No one knows all of the circumstances in each and every situation..So to sit back and blast them anytime someone is killed..well..that is just very foolish..And those that are so quick to judge these cases..usually have some jaded/biased opinion with LE to begin with..Again I said "usually"

And knowing LE..either friend or family..does not make you nor anyone an expert on the subject..

And please let me be very clear that if anyone is wrong..unlawful..regardless of who they are..and that certainly includes any LE..of course they should be punished..even dismissed in many cases..No one is or should be above the law..No one..I often submit news here on unlawful cops..They are a disgrace..however I disagree they give LE a bad name..Unless one throws everyone into the same box..which is extremely unfair and wrong to do..But that's just my opinion..Everyone should be judged on their own actions..and not place blame in the group..You know the saying.."One bad apple"

I also said nothing about Terry..not sure why you are insinuating any such thing..Terry indeed does wonderful news stories..he personally send his link to me and I enjoy them..however he does not write them personally..no one does..we only submit what we read..If one disputes something in that story..either based on a different opinion or an incorrect report in it..that is entirely different..Terry is a good man and I have respect for him both as a fellow member..and a friend..

I did not attack..nor have I ever attacked Mary..though we are not friends here..we are fellow members of the same community..I do not know Mary that well..I do know from what I read of her news stories/blogs/shares..she clearly portrays police in a bad light..always..And that is her right to do as she feels..but again I can and will voice my own opinion as well..and I do so.. as honestly and respectfully as I can..

Look no one is saying every cop..judge..CO..are all good..That is just foolish..of course there are good and bad in every line of work..and LE certainly has their bad ones..
But that does not mean every time someone is tased or shot that they are trigger happy..wrong..over forceful
and needs to be fired..

As for 59 shots fired..if you knew much about the training for LE..Again they did their job as they are trained to do and as unfortunate as it may be..often they have to do..

Many have said it is "excessive force" No it wasn't..There were six officers..that is about 9-10 shots per officer..Also not all fired in the same round..at the same time..Shots were fired once..and then again when the suspect refused to put down his weapon and pointed with the threat to shoot..
That is when LE will take action..and rightfully so..What are they supposed to do..Let the suspect shoot someone first..
The officers have returned back to work..there is no wrong doing on their part..they have been cleared..and rightfully so..

This man was running a muck for hours..before the police were called..he was drunk..suicidal and with a loaded weapon..
In the actual police report/911 call..Police were called to stop a dispute..with a drunken man..with a weapon.. threatening suicide..and in a scuffle with two other parties..trying to get the weapon from him..

The man also had a police record..one pending domestic offense..and two priors..along with several other minor incidents..

My question is why didn't the family call in for mental health intervention immediately..I know..if I were ever in that place..that would be the first thing I would do..and not let someone obviously so distraught..so self destructive and drunk run a muck all through the neighborhood for hours..threatening to kill themselves..and fighting with family and friends over it..
Mental health has an 24 hour emergency number..They very easily could have had him committed and it is a crying shame that they did not do anything for this man..

So at 4 am someone finally called the police..and this all went down so fast..and very sad it did the way it did..But it is not the fault of LE..

He was not shot because he was a black man..or because cops love to shoot..or because they are idiots..
He was shot because he was a threat..a serious threat..and because he not refused to put down his weapon..but aimed and pointed as if to shoot..

Seriously..say you were there..you are LE..what would you do..What are you trained to do..instructed to do in these cases..

And that is just what these six officers did..