Sunday August 31, 2008, 11:24 am
Thanks Pekka - we should be expecting a visit from you know who shortly LOL :)

"But it is the simultaneous opening – for the first time in at least 125,000 years – of the North-west passage around Canada and the North-east passage around Russia that promises to deliver much the greatest shock."

Sunday August 31, 2008, 11:44 am
Prepare for the GOP talking heads to proclaim this is just another Liberal Lie. The GOP is pushing the story that the glaciers and icecaps are GROWING at record speed. I no longer try to tell where the line is between their lies and their ignorance. It really doesn't matter which it is.....nothing they say turns out to be True.

Sunday August 31, 2008, 11:45 am
"The first time"? Since 1979 when satellite coverage came in, maybe. The North East Passage is often open to Russian shipping and the North west Passage has been traversed numerous times in the 20th Century...1906, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1944, 1957, 1969, 1977, 1984, 1988, and 2000.

The Northeast Passage has been used for shipping for a long time

"Since World War II the Soviet Union and now Russia has maintained a regular highway for shipping along this passage through the development of new ports and the exploitation of resources in the interior. A fleet of Russian icebreakers, aided by aerial reconnaissance and by radio weather stations, keeps the route navigable from June to October. The Northern Sea Route cuts the distance between Russian Atlantic and Pacific ports in half."http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0835964.html

So, is this just lack of knowledge ...or a deliberate attempt at re-writing history?

Sunday August 31, 2008, 11:54 am
You are only addressing HALF the story with that cut and paste rehash LMAO...do read the story before commenting:

It is a discussin regarding the SIMULTANEOUS OPENING of BOTH passeges - which has not taken place in 125,000 years...the story notes that they have been open INDIVIDUALLY before, but not both...

Sunday August 31, 2008, 12:12 pm
We do not know that. There is absolutely no way of knowing that. All they can truthfully say is that is is the first time since we have been able to keep track of it by satellite.

But don't let a little detail like that get in the way of the latest bit of scaremongering.

"An almost linear global temperature increase of about 0.5C/100 years (~1F/100 years) seems to have started at least one hundred years before 1946, when manmade CO2 in the atmosphere began to increase rapidly. This value of 0.5C/100 years may be compared with what the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) scientists consider to be the manmade greenhouse effect of 0.6C/100 years. This 100-year long linear warming trend is likely to be a natural change.

One possible cause of the linear increase may be Earth’s continuing recovery from the Little Ice Age (1400-1800). This trend (0.5C/100 years) should be subtracted from the temperature data during the last 100 years when estimating the manmade contribution to the present global warming trend. As a result, there is a possibility that only a small fraction of the present warming trend is attributable to the greenhouse effect resulting from human activities. Note that both glaciers and sea ice in the Arctic Ocean that had developed during the Little Ice Age began to recede after 1800 and are still receding; their recession is not a recent phenomenon. One lesson here is that it is not possible to study climate change without long-term data. In fact, one way to learn about natural changes is to examine climate change before the greenhouse effect of CO2 became significant in about 1946."
In addition, there are quasi-periodic changes, which are superposed on the linear change. One of them is the “multi-decadal oscillation,” which is a natural change. This particular change has a positive rate of change of about 0.15°C/10 years from about 1975, and is thought to be a sure sign of the greenhouse effect by the IPCC. But this positive trend stopped after 2000 and now has a negative slope.
These facts are contrary to the IPCC (2007) Report (p.10), which states that “most” of the
present warming is due “very likely” to be the manmade greenhouse effect.
There is an urgent need to correctly identify natural changes and remove them from the present global warming/cooling trend, in order to accurately identify the contribution of the manmade greenhouse effect."
Is Earth still recovering from the “Little Ice Age?”
A possible cause of global warming
Syun-Ichi Akasofu
International Arctic Research Center
University of Alaska Fairbanks
Fairbanks, Alaska
Abstract
http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~sakasofu/pdf/Earth_recovering_from_LIA_R.pdf

Sunday August 31, 2008, 12:19 pm
"One possible cause of the linear increase may be.."

The author uses "possible" and "may" - so applying Judy logic, this finding has NO MEANING LMAO!!!

You seem to indicate that there is PROOF that the NW Passage was open in 1906 - hint, hint, that was BEFORE satellite data so obviously there are other ways of making such a dertrmination LMAO!!!!

and of course this article has no relavants..just random posting of another "finding"...

Sunday August 31, 2008, 12:55 pm
The dates given are successful sailings through because the water was open enough to allow it.
It is a matter of record.
Do your homework.

Sunday August 31, 2008, 1:04 pm
soooooo, that still means nothing...my point is that there are other ways to determine when the various passages were open or not - you simply discounted the findings in the article because it covers a period before satalites...here is some more "homework for you"

The artic sea ice extent in 2007 was at its lowest extent since 1900 (the sea ice extent is at its second lowest point TODAY, and still has another few weeks of mealting before the end of this season)

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.updated.jpg

Sunday August 31, 2008, 5:06 pm
That is a lovely graph you found, but it doesn't prove that this is the" first time in" wow!
"human history", that both the NW & the NE passages were open simultaneously.

The very fact that ships got through means "open". How much is anybody's guess. Most expeditions kept records.

We do have definite proof that it is the first time since 1979.

That is clear and acceptable.

The rest is best guess conjecture. Since there have been times when the Northwest passage was passable which may have coincided with openings in the much more trafficed Northeast passage , there is still the possibility that it happened earlier than 2008.

You do have to remember ...we have to keep the research funds flowing, so what's a little a
little exageration

Sunday August 31, 2008, 6:53 pm
It not been lower since 1900 - that is a fact - and that is relevant - no matter how much retoric you dump on it :)