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Israeli-Palestinian Conflict 101


World  (tags: 'CIVILLIBERTIES!', 'HUMANRIGHTS!', conflict, death, ethics, freedoms, government, israel, middle-east, palestine, politics, Refugees&Relief, society, UnitedNations, violence, war, world )

Kit
- 517 days ago - jewishvoiceforpeace.org
Q: What is the Palestinian-Israeli conflict really about? A: The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is, in essence, a conflict over territory. Although religion plays a role in defining the identities of the parties to the conflict, and for some Jews,-->



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Kit B. (277)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 7:17 pm

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict 101

Q: What is the Palestinian-Israeli conflict really about?

A: The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is, in essence, a conflict over territory. Although religion plays a role in defining the identities of the parties to the conflict, and for some Jews, in justifying their claims to the land, the conflict is not, fundamentally, a religious conflict.

Q: What exactly is "the occupation"?

A: In 1967, Israel defeated the neighboring Arab countries in a war that lasted only six days. At the end of that war, Israel had captured the West Bank (which includes the Eastern half of Jerusalem), the Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights. (It also captured the Sinai Peninsula, but this was later returned to Egypt as part of a peace accord that holds to this day). Some of this territory was annexed, specifically the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem.

The rest of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip has been under a military occupation ever since. This means that the Israeli army has complete control over these areas. Palestinians in these regions have no guarantee of civil rights. They have no government of their own other than what Israel will allow. Israel can impose total curfews on any part or all of the territory. This prevents people from traveling to work, to market or to see family members. It can prevent medical care from reaching people, and people from reaching hospitals.

Occupation means the Israeli military has total authority over every aspect of Palestinian life. In addition, Israel has settled hundreds of thousands of its own citizens in these lands, in defiance of international law. Click here to download an introduction to the settlement issue by JVP Deputy Director Cecilie Surasky.

Q: Are Palestinian and Jewish citizens of Israel treated equally?

A: No. Although Palestinian citizens of Israel are entitled to vote and participate in Israeli political life, and several Palestinians are members of the Knesset (the Israeli parliament), they do not receive the same treatment as the Jewish citizens at the hands of the government. Israel still applies 20 laws that privilege Jews over Arabs. For example, the 1950 Law of Return grants automatic citizenship rights to Jews from anywhere in the world upon request, while denying that same right to Palestinians. The Basic Law of Human Dignity and Freedom ensures that Israel is the state of the "Jewish people," not its citizens. This law was passed in 1992 to serve as a "bill of rights," as Israel does not have a written constitution.

Israel's flag and other national symbols are Jewish religious symbols, not neutral or national ones that represent all the citizens of the state. Government resources, meanwhile, are disproportionately directed to Jews and not to Arabs, one factor in causing the Palestinians of Israel to suffer the lowest living standards in Israeli society by all economic indicators.

Human Rights Watch has compiled an extensive study of Israel's policy of "separate, not equal" schools for Palestinian children, finding that "Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this."

As many as 100 Palestinian villages in Israel, many of which pre-date the founding of the state, are not recognized by the Israeli government, and are not listed on maps and receive no services (water, electricity, sanitation, roads, etc.) from the government. More than 70,000 Palestinians live in these unrecognized villages. Meanwhile, hundreds of new Jewish towns have been established on lands confiscated from Palestinians.


Q: Did the PLO reject a "generous offer" for peace at Camp David in 2000?

A: No. In fact, there was no Israeli "offer" at all, in the sense of a comprehensive plan to resolve all outstanding differences between the parties. To the extent that Israeli positions on discrete issues could be discerned, they were not "generous." Finally, while Palestinian negotiators did not agree to Israeli demands, they did not "reject" them, but sought to continue negotiations, and offered solutions based on long-accepted principles of international law and justice.

Q: What is an intifada?

A: Intifada is an Arabic word derived from a verb meaning "to shake off," and is the term used to describe the two major uprisings against Israeli military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Q: Haven't Jews and Arabs been fighting for thousands of years? Is there really an answer?

A: In fact, Jews and Arabs have been fighting for only about a century. While Jews were facing repeated expulsion and persecution in Europe, Jews in the Muslim world, though still facing some problems, were faring much better. Jews, as People of the Book under Islamic law, were entitled to legal protections and certain rights. To be sure, they were not the equals of Muslims, and there were incidents of anti-Semitism in many parts of the Muslim and Arab world through the centuries, some of them serious. But both the severity and the frequency of these were far lower than in Europe.

There is no doubt that the ongoing and brutal conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, as well as the neighboring Arab states, has created a great deal of hatred on both sides. But it is simply false to say that history shows that Jews and Arabs cannot live together. They have before, and, in a modern, secular state, may well be able to do so on a much more equal footing than existed in the past.

Q: What do Palestinians seek?

A: Palestinians, depending on where they live, face different challenges and thus have different concerns. However, what they all have in common is a basic desire for freedom and equal rights.

Palestinians living in Israel seek rights that are equal to Jewish citizens of the state. Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip seek an end to the Israeli military's domination of every aspect of their daily lives - whether through direct military occupation, as in the West Bank, or control from without, as in the case of the Gaza Strip - and rights to freedom and national self-determination, equal to those of other national groups. And Palestinian refugees and others living in exile want the right to return to their homes, if they so desire, or to receive compensation and support for resettlement, just like other refugee populations in the world.

Q: What was the Gaza disengagement, and how has it affected Palestinians?

A: The Gaza disengagement was part of a unilateral plan adopted by the Israeli government without consultation with the Palestinians, although with the approval of the U.S. government. The disengagement began in August 2005, when Israel evacuated approximately 8,500 civilians from 21 settlements in the Gaza Strip, and 500 more from four small settlements in the northern part of the West Bank - about 2% of the total number of Israeli settlers in the Palestinian territories.

Israeli troops began to deploy outside of the Gaza Strip, while still controlling its coastline, borders, and airspace. Israel continues to provide Gaza water, electricity, and other vital services. Israel also claims the right to intervene militarily, including preemptively, in "self-defense."

In a sense, this represents a change in the form of military occupation from direct to indirect control. Dov Weisglass, a close adviser of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, stated in an interview with the newspaper Ha'aretz in October 2004 that the plan was intended to put the peace process in "formaldehyde," to postpone the creation of a Palestinian state indefinitely, and to relieve pressure on Israel to make further withdrawals from the West Bank

Many Palestinians see the Gaza disengagement and the intensification of colonization of the West Bank as two faces of a unified policy whereby Israel will rid itself of responsibility for Palestinians, while maximizing its control of their land.

Q: What is Israel's separation wall or barrier?

A: In October 2003, Israel began construction on a "separation barrier" in the occupied West Bank, justifying it on security grounds. The barrier consists, in places, of a wall twenty-five feet high, razor wire, trenches, sniper towers, electrified fences, military roads, electronic surveillance, and buffer zones that sometimes reach 100 meters in width. Much of the wall will be built on lands confiscated from Palestinian landowners within the West Bank - not within Israel's own territory. Many Palestinian homes, business, orchards, and other valuable assets in the route of the wall have been destroyed.

The wall has been challenged repeatedly before the Israeli High Court, which has several times ordered the military to re-route specific sections of the wall, although the court has held that a wall built on Palestinian lands does not, in principle, violate international law. However, the wall must be militarily justified and conform to the principle of "proportionality" (that is, that the burdens imposed on civilians are proportional to the security benefits achieved through the military's action).

The wall was also the subject of a case before the International Court of Justice. The ICJ ruling, announced in July 2004, held that the wall is illegal, must be dismantled, and ordered Israel to compensate Palestinians damaged by the wall's construction. It also called upon third-party states to ensure Israel's compliance with the judgment. Although an advisory opinion, and therefore not binding on the parties, the ICJ judgment is an authoritative statement of the status of the wall in international law. In the course of the opinion, all fifteen judges of the court found Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories, including East Jerusalem, to violate international law.

The wall has become the focus of weekly protests across the West Bank over the last five years. Led by Palestinians, these protests have used nonviolent techniques like sit-ins and roadblocks and have drawn increasing support from Israelis and internationals.

Q: What happened during Israel's 2008 invasion of Gaza?

A: According to the Goldstone Report, and corroborated by Israeli and international human rights groups, the Israel Defence Force (IDF) and Palestinian armed groups had committed war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity. While the report condemned violations by both sides, it clearly differentiated between the moral and legal severity of the violations of the Israeli forces compared to those of Hamas and other less culpable Palestinian armed groups. "The following grave breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention were committed by Israeli forces in Gaza: wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, and extensive destruction of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly. As grave breaches these acts give rise to individual criminal responsibility."

For more on the "Laws of War," watch this video. * See Visit Site*

 

Kit B. (277)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 7:21 pm

Jewish Voice for Peace:

Right now, Gaza is being bombarded in what Israel is calling ‘Operation Pillar of Defense’. JVP has issued a statement about this operation which can be found here.

This escalation of violence by Israel, on the eve of an election there, and with the unconditional support of the US government, cannot go unchallenged. Together we must demand: Stop the Bombs. Stop the Siege. Stop Payment on the Israeli Military’s Blank Check.

Take to the streets with others in your local community to protest Israel’s invasion and ongoing siege of Gaza and the US government’s complicity and to demand a cessation of violence and attacks against civilians on all sides.

JVP will provide chant sheets, a sample press release, talking points for media, and printable posters to help you easily and quickly organize a local demonstration. Let us know details of your community’s event here and we’ll help spread the word to all JVP supporters in your area.

The bombs that are falling on Gaza right now are paid for by US tax dollars, as unconditional military aid to Israel remains an unquestioned budgetary priority. Take to the streets to demand that President Obama use the US’s power to stop the bombs, stop the siege and stop payment on the Israeli military’s blank check from the US government.

Rabbi Alissa Wise of the Jewish Voice for Peace~
 

JL A. (269)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 7:30 pm
Shalom, Peace, Salaam, Om Shanti, Solh, Amani, Paz, 평화, Ping On...
 

Angelika R. (143)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 7:49 pm
Exellently written, thanks Kit. But this thread will most likely attract again the youknowwhos.
J.L.- I second that! I guess Netanyahu's massive reaction and further action might not really help his campaign but on the contrary get the world's anger toward Israeli govt. If THAT can gather points for him for reelection remains to be seen...
I also get the JVP mail and their speedy reaction and call is great!
 

Jason S. (57)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 7:54 pm
sad, thanks
 

Kit B. (277)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 8:26 pm

I get tired of hearing it Angelika, the facts are evident to any one who wants to know. Let them do their worst, it only reinforces, ignorance is bliss. This must end, it's not a movie, this is real life people are dying for others political agenda.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 10:58 pm
Kit, why do you post this nonsense from Jewish pro-Arab propagandists? By now it is known that Muhammed Durah was killed by Arab snipers, not Israelis.

And the conflict is based on Islamic intolerance - Islam forbids countries once under Islam to be under infidels.

What is intifada? Killing children at discos and pizza shops.

 

David D. (18)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 2:49 am
> What is intifada? Killing children at discos and pizza shops.

Last and every time I checked,
Israelis have been and are killing about 10 times(*,**) as many Palestinians as the other way round, AND the I"D"F is murdering(***) higher percentages of both children and civilians(**) than the Palestinian "terrorists"

*) that's counting direct killings only, disregarding deaths by e.g. "being forced to live like dogs" and "having to scurry around like drugged roaches in a bottle" (to borrow the words from Moshe Dayan and Rafael Eitan)
**) according to wikipedia and human right org's like AI
***) mostly with weapons from U$A
 

mag.w.d. Aichberger (34)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 2:59 am
And as to the ORIGINS of this conflict:
" The Zionists were by far the more powerful and better organized force, and " --though all-too-many people seem to believe so-- it's NOT as if Israel would have been founded in peace and harmony, and was then attacked by the bad, blood-thirsty ragheads, BUT
" [B]y May 1948, when the state of Israel was formally established, about 300,000 Palestinians already had been expelled from their homes or had fled the fighting, and the Zionists controlled a region well beyond the area of the original Jewish state that had been proposed by the UN. Now it's then that Israel was attacked by its neighbors - in May 1948; it's then, after the Zionists had taken control of this much larger part of the region and hundreds of thousands of civilians had been forced out, not before. " pp 131-132 in 'Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky'
===
As to the (sad, very sad) continuation of this (more and more one-sided) conflict, just have a look at this impressive USraHelli occupation-fortress , er, pardon me... "settlement", er, pardon me again..."jewish neighborhood"

 

Roxy H. (340)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:07 am
o me o my, all I was looking for was some information, and now I feel more confused.. o.0 .. gosh, and I thought trying to figure out all these rotten popvox lawmaker law's and rider bills and new hunting laws, and poacher laws and Wisconsin corruption and running in the woods finding hidden wolf pups, looking for sweeping poacher hidden clear traps was bad... UGH KIT!... sigh Calling in the Goddess
 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:19 am

I'm sorry you had trouble with this Roxy. I decide to share this because I thought was a concise, easy to read summation of 64 years of fighting over a tiny spit of land. All of this could have, should have been resolved many years ago, that was then, this is now. My single object and hope is to promote understanding and with an eye always to peace. I don't want to see the end of Israel, my wishes are that the people will begin to demand more of their government. The people, are all interested in the hopes, dreams and futures of their children, something all of us on this planet, share.
 

TomCat S. (285)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:28 am
This is one of the best analyses of the middle east conflict I have seen. Thanks Kit. I support a two state solution in which a free Israel and a free Palestine coexist. I hope the Israeli people will oust the regime that is making a solution impossible.
 

Arielle S. (313)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:48 am
Everything Tom said from me, too - there are no winners in war, only heartache and misery on both sides.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 11:40 am
Star to Tom, cannot send one yet. Agree 100% as said earlier.
 

mag.w.d. Aichberger (34)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 11:43 am
> 64 years of fighting over a tiny spit of land
HOW tiny what's left on palestine is; and HOW denely populated Gaza-strip is, I (was *vaguely* aware of, but) didn't fullly realize until today, when i finally looked up the numbers:

Gaza_strip:
Population, 2011 estimate: 1,657,155 (en.wiki)
Area: 360 km**2 (nationmaster.com AND verified on map)
=> pop.density = ~ 4,600 humans/km**2

This is not only the worlds largest prison, with most of it's infrastructure destroyed ... the inmates are stacked like cattle in a railcar!


 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 11:48 am

I did hope this would clear the fog for many that do not wish to spend hours, and even years reading all of the details of a relatively short but tragically painful history of the region. Granted this comes from a Jewish organization that has but one reason for existing....PEACE.

I too Angelika and not able to send many green stars.
 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 11:52 am

And... Wolf A - add to that lack of food,water and proper sanitation, sparse medical care...and people wonder why the Palestinian people are angry? If this were your life would you be angry? If your child were murdered would you want revenge?
 

tasunka m. (334)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:32 pm
When it comes right down to it the truth is that there is no real distinction between both Semitic groups.
If not for adifferent religious beliefs they really are brothers in their origins.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:49 pm
Arab people are angry in all their 22 Arab states because of "lack of food,water and proper sanitation, sparse medical care".

When people put militancy, religious war and terrorism as a way to Paradise,k they won't be successful in this world. And when they are proved losers, they attack those who knows how to build a democratic and prosperous countries.

Kit, keep everything you wrote here, just change to article title to "Dawah 101".
 

Angelika R. (143)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 1:15 pm
PETITION : President Obama: Stop Israel's Attacks on Gaza
 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 1:27 pm

I notice there are some flying pests here, swat them away...much better. I hear that it's true, there is no medical treatment for stupid, so sad.

Angelika --- Thank you for sending a letter to the president calling on the United States to exert pressure on Israel for an immediate cease-fire in the Gaza Strip and to initiate an investigation into Israel's misuse of U.S. weapons.- Signed, shared ...And donation made.
 

Tamara Noforwardsplz (185)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 2:33 pm
Thank you Kit. Tom, Kit, Angelika and Tasunka, Many many green stars!
 

Allan Yorkowitz (458)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 2:48 pm
Even with Palestinians in the Knesset, being able to have a business in Israel, are not denied health care, the Leaders" of the Palestinians still will not accept the state of Israel, although thousands are citizens of the country.
The Palestinians are in an almost impossible situation. You have the radical who believe Israel should sacrifice land for peace. Then there are those who do not acknowledge Israel at all. THEN, you have those who are living comfortably in Israel who do not want their situation to change.

 

Julio Martinez (7)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 3:02 pm
:)
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 3:55 pm
Angelika, where were you when Hamas was bombing Israel with hudnreds of rockets? Why didn't you create a petition to stop US and European Aid to Palestinian Arabs, who deliberately commit war crimes with everyone's knowledge of what they are doing?

This condemnation of defensive action of Israel does not smell right.
 

Camila K. (141)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 4:01 pm
Bob, were you there?

Thank you Kit
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:20 pm
Yes, Camila, I now stand with the people of Israel. I am planning to visit Israel when my vacation time comes. I already been there, and saw Arabs and Jews living and doing business together. I even saw Arabs demonstration with Red Flags and screaming something in Hebrew, without a fear be shot at the head, like Malala.

And I stand with the people of Canada, where locally grown Islamists wanted to behead our own Prime Minister.

 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:48 pm

Good, hurry off, Bod now is good time to go. No one really cares about your uninformed racial biased opinion.
I've read your rants about Muslims in the past. Many people know better, and they have read the full history, not just a few biased blogs. Now hurry off to Israel....

About your poor besieged Prime Minister, wonder why? Don't bother to answer, we know a W clone when we see it, now off with you.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:07 pm
Thanks, Kit, for posting this neat summary of important points.

Before any negotiations, definition of issues, and on which issues both (or more) parties agree should be established to move as much as possible from the table. Only then, negotiations with some hope for a real success could start.

Now, about Israel - Palestina; What are we talking about here? Israel is in danger and has the right of defence? Problem: where exactly is Israel? Where are the borders of Israel? We've seen IDF killing peace activists, citizens of states with whom Israel is not at declared war on High Seas. We've seen Israeli government settling Israeli citizens on Internationally recognised Palestinian territory. We've seen Mossad killing people all over the world. So I ask again: Where are the borders of Israel? Which territory is under Israeli jurisdiction?

This is what Wikipedia says about borders of Israel: "Israel's borders are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation." So, with wandering borders of Israel, who will trust Israel on wanting peace with neighbours while refusing to even declare where it thinks the borders of Israel should be? Just a remark: every other country has established fixed borders; this is how we differ between nations and tribes.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:10 pm
Ups, very late here. Should be *differentiate*, of course. Editing in small boxes...
 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:57 pm

The point was clear Jelica, don't be concerned about little errors in typing.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:59 pm
Yes, Kit, you are just a classic case, you would approve the murder of a person with political views different from yours! No surprise to me, though, I know who stands behind Dawah, and I know that Dawah is a part of Jihad.

Blaming your opponents as "racists" is another over-used trick by Islamist PR workers, you don't get a credit for originality either. As if religious militants made up their own race.

You insulted all Moderate Muslims by lump[ing them together with murderers and fanatics. This must be your worst insult at them. You are lumping Malala and her assassins together!

Why do you want to cause harm to peaceful Palestinian Arabs? Instead of supporting war mongers and extremists you could extend hand to those who really want peace.
 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:03 pm

I would say your stupidity is overwhelming, but actually it never ceases to amaze. You are not my opponent, Bob, you are simply an unpleasant annoyance. Nothing more and probably far less.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:06 pm
Jelica, some of the borders of the State of Israel are not set yet. Arab wars that they lost, territory captured in the defensive was raise many difficult questions. Israel is ready to share its tiny land with Arab minority - something that the Arab Nation itself refuses to do with its own minorities - Druze or Kurds - even though Arab states grabbed 10 THOUSAND TIMES more land than Israel.

As you know, many Arab states are at war with Israel, or at least at diplomatic war. You can see it now. You can see Arab boycott campaign raising its ugly head again and again. You can see pauper countries arming militants to the teeth to fight Israel, yet not having money for the health care of its own people.

You see Islamists blowing up Israeli centers all over the world, and not missing attacking even single Jewish citizen. (I will add attacking Churches and Christians here as well, as these numbers grow fast).

Of course Israel has to confront and stand up to these guys. Canada does the same. America does the same. Just don't c all provocateurs and extremists "peace activists" next time, because they are not. They are provocateurs and extremists.
 

Aranza Diaz (22)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:30 pm
this is horrible
 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:36 pm

Peace activists, those who actively seek peace. Those who have learned from history that there is always an alternative to war. And...there are sadly those who still think they can justify war. Fortunately, for most those voices, fall on deaf ears. I will no longer tolerate the intolerable. The excuses for murder.
 

Kit B. (277)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:47 pm

Historical record, Bob. Actual facts.
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 9:10 pm
Hi Kit :)

There is a reason for the difference in quality of government-services like schools, between Jewish and Arab Israeli communities, one which I have seen back home in Canada: Arabs have ethnocentric parties in the Israeli parliament which take up much of their votes and hold positions contrary to the well-being of the state of Israel. They are too small to ever form government, and it would be political suicide for any government to work with them, like the Bloc Quebecois in Canada, so their demands are ignored. Almost worse, because they make it so inefficient for potential governing-parties to seek the Arab vote, they effectively keep those parties from courting it and trying to serve Arabs' interests. It sucks and it's dirty, but the unequal treatment is not a symptom of some great animosity by Israeli Jews against Arabs. Fortunately, apparently there is an Arab party starting with positions which are not anathema to the rest of the country, so this may change soon.

Regarding "occupation", what was described was not what is legally known as "military occupation" in the Geneva Conventions. It described "martial law", which is standard in regions with popular rebellions.

Regarding whether Jews and Arabs have been fighting for many centuries, the initial statement is correct, but the conclusions drawn from it are not. There is a separate reason, aside from a non-existent tradition of harmony, for which this occurred (an unaccounted-for confounding factor). The fighting has only lasted about a century because Jews have only been concentrated enough in any one place in the Middle East to make it a fight for about that long. Prior to that, they both lived under Ottoman rule, which for the most part kept them both quiet.

Really, the two cultures cannot make peace, at least not as they are now. This is not generally in the literature, but nevertheless clearly supported by history: They just have two different, incompatible, traditions of conflict-resolution. Throughout their history, Arab nations have only "ended" conflicts in three ways: Violent genocide, unstable power-sharing agreements which inevitably lead to another round of conflict, and the total destruction of one nation through cultural assimilation (rather than the killing of its members). The first and third are not about to be accepted by Israel,and the second doesn't actually lead to final resolution. Western-style peace, where both nations continue to exist with their cultures intact, demands either trust which comes from it being an established tradition, or fear of severe retribution in case of rebellion, as applied by Rome (which never conquered the Arabian Peninsula, from which modern Arab culture comes) when it spread this tradition. (First popular rebellion: Line up everyone in the town where it happened and kill every tenth, "decimation". Second: Do the same and let only every tenth one live, "reverse decimation", and then salt the earth, destroy the roads on the way out, and remove the town from maps.) Somehow, I don't see Israel spreading the tradition to Palestinians by the only proven method, or at least I don't see many folks here liking the idea. That does not mean that peace is hopeless: It just means that the cultures will have to change, which takes generations. Peace is not happening any time soon. This is why I would not even address the offer made in 2000, which got Ehud Barak out of the PM's office when it was perceived as having failed in the most extreme way, by the 2nd Intifada.

Regarding what Palestinians seek, for the most part the "101" is accurate, but like any "101", it misses some important details: First, it does not really matter that much what most Palestinians seek because, to paraphrase Mao, power flows from the barrel of a gun and not the voices of the people. What matters is what the armed groups seek, and some of them seek the outright destruction of Israel. even that would not matter so much if Palestinians were able to police those groups, but they cannot because the armed forces generally hold their loyalty to their political parties above their loyalty to their democratic system. As a result of this hierarchy of loyalties, an elected leader cannot order any militias except that of his own party to stand down, and no militia, nor any solid alliance of them, has the power to police the others. Efforts, by the PA. Jordan, and U.S. (and probably unofficially Israel) are underway to develop a "Palestinian Security Force", loyal to the democratic system, which could police the militias.

The Goldstone Report was flawed from before the investigation started: Prior U.N. investigations had their scope formally limited to only investigate Israeli war-crimes, not Palestinian. As a result, the investigative infrastructure was only set up to look into allegations of Israeli crimes. Combined with the lack of transparency by the militias, its investigations of Palestinian war-crimes were doomed before they could start.

In short, "Israeli-Palestinian Conflict 101" is aptly named. While it gives an introduction, to understand any complex issue something far beyond "101" is needed.
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 9:43 pm
The introduction given to the laws of war are also just that, an introduction. Something far more advanced, or at least a more extensive introduction, is needed. Specifically, the real traditional and legal means of deterring war-crimes, and reason behind the principle of proportionality, should be included:

http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/reprisal/
http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/reprisal-killings/
http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/military-necessity/

As noted under "military necessity", military necessity does not justify the violation of other international humanitarian law, but under the second, there are conditions under which acts which would on their own be illegal may become legal. This is the central problem in U.N.-investigations of Israel: Due to their investigative failures and limited scope, they cannot check to see whether those conditions apply. Such verification is normally necessary (though not done) because the Israeli legal defences are often that the relevant conditions do apply.

I could go into greater detail regarding which reprisals are appropriate for which crimes and why, if anybody here wants. I could also go into why the threat of punishment by the ICC cannot ever succeed in deterring war-crimes and may actually cause many needless deaths.
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 9:54 pm
I realize this is my third post, but the image at the top of this thread is very appropriate for "Israeli-Palestinian Conflict 101". A French judge ruled that claims that this image was from a false report (by AFP) were not defamation because they were true. Pictures of the wall after the fact showed that the pock-marks were circular, as could only result from bullets flying directly towards it from the side it faced, not linear as would come from bullets grazing it.

With bullets coming from the direction of the camera, why are the two people in the image hiding behind a garbage-can, protecting themselves from a totally different direction? Simple: They were in no danger from the bullets because they were not actually being targeted. This was Pallywood Productions at its finest, still not very good.

There is another independent reason why it was visible that the al-Dura report was false, but I think the shape of the pock-marks, visible throughout the video, suffices.
 

Ahron E. (5)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:04 pm
I have never read such alot of crock and bull. She doesn't mention this started with Isreal being bombarded with hundreds of missles and Israel is only defending itself. She says Gaza is occupied. Gaza hasn't been occupied since 2005. It has its own government the only thing Israel does is check all goods entering Gaza for weapons which can be used against Israel. If the Gazan would stop obsessing about destroying Israel they could build up a great economy like Singapore. in '48 Arabs were not kicked out but left on there own. The Arabs in the British Mandate only moved there when the Jews returned and started builing up the economy. Mark Twain said in the 1880's the land was devoid of people. The little strip of land as a small fraction of the orginal Mandate for the Jewish state. The Mandate include Gaza, Israel, The West Bank, The Golan Hts, and Jordan.

She calls herself a Rabbi. Any religious person including the Muslims can see the hand of G-d in the success of Israel. In '48 five Arab armys attacked Israel and did not succeed. Surely it is G-d's will for the Jews to succeed.

She is a traitor to her people.
 

Camila K. (141)
Friday November 16, 2012, 5:39 am
Blessed are the peacemakers. Being clever and using rhetorical arguments and using brute force even when arguing "defense" to gain some "security" or land is a sure way away from security and peace. Israeli politics is about force not true power, and so will never have security or peace for its people. Its a very sad exaple of people who are too intelligent to behave so primitively unevolved with other people, neighbors, who even when name-called as terrorist, enemy, or loser are still human beings. Shame and stunted glory is on those who know better but behave so degradedly against their fellow brethren.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Friday November 16, 2012, 6:15 am
Erasing any Arabic identity from Jerusalem
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas accused Israel Sunday of trying to erase any Arabic identity from Jerusalem, drawing a strong response from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who criticized the comments as inflammatory and contemptible.
Abbas, speaking at a conference in Qatar, said that for the past few years Israel has been waging a "final battle" aimed at erasing the Arab, Muslim and Christian character of East Jerusalem, which Israel captured from Jordan during the 1967 Middle East war.
Netanyahu called the Palestinian leader's remarks "a harshly inflammatory speech from someone who claims that he is bent on peace."
"(Abbas) knows full well that there is no foundation to his contemptible remarks," Netanyahu's office said in a statement.
The strong words from both sides underscore how much the holy city has been a sticking point in Israeli-Palestinian peace talks that have made little progress in recent years.
The Palestinians want East Jerusalem as the capital of a future state they are looking to establish in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Netanyahu, who opposes dividing the city, said that Jerusalem has been the "eternal capital for the Jewish people" for thousands of years. He said that Israel will continue to maintain the city's holy sites and freedom of worship for all.
Abbas said that through settlement building in the West Bank and Jerusalem, Israel is carrying out an "ethnic cleansing, in every sense against the Palestinian residents in order to turn them into minorities in their own city."
Tensions are often high in Jerusalem and surroundings. Israeli police clashed with Palestinian stone throwers last week
in the West Bank and at al Aqsa mosque in the Old City.
(Reporting by Jihan Abdalla, Roleen Tafakji and Ari Rabinovitch)

Sun,26 Feb 2012 11:08 AM PST
Reuters -
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Friday November 16, 2012, 6:26 am
Miko Peled was born in Jerusalem in 1961 into a well-known Zionist family. His grandfather, Dr. Avraham Katsnelson was a Zionist leader and signer on the Israeli Declaration of Independence. His father, Matti Peled was a young officer in the war of 1948 and a general in the war of 1967 when Israel conquered the West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights and the Sinai. And here is his Article :

Ethnic Cleansing of Invented People
By Miko Peled

January 04, 2012 "Information Clearing House" - - Mostafa Tamimi from Nabi Saleh, Bahjat Zaalan and his son Ramdan from Gaza died on my fiftieth birthday and just a few days after Newt Gingrich declared them an invented people. They were murdered by the Israeli terrorist organization, the IDF, an organization that is supported and funded by the US. One Israeli terrorist shot the invented Tamimi in the head with a tear gas canister, and another Israeli terrorist fired a rocket that murdered the invented Zaalan and his boy Ramadan. Both terrorists were educated and trained by Israel, and armed by the US. The Israeli terrorists are not invented but quite real, and they are safe, protected by the apartheid regime that trained and sent them on their missions, and the Israeli court system will make sure that they are never brought to justice. This is how Israel’s well-oiled ethnic cleansing machine operates.
The Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine is not a thing of the past but an ongoing campaign that is executed by three arms of the State of Israel: The education system, a dedicated bureaucracy and the security forces. The education system is dedicated to indoctrinating and producing soldiers and bureaucrats who will execute and enforce the ethnic cleansing. The bureaucracy is charged with making rules that make life unlivable for Palestinians. Rules that restrict Palestinian access to their lands, and restrict their ability to travel freely to work and school. This same bureaucracy then demands that Palestinians pay for permits to be allowed do these very same basic things that they were denied. The security forces, the most obvious of which is the IDF, are charged with enforcing the restrictions, fighting off the resistance, armed or peaceful, and terrorizing the “invented” people of Palestine.

Since my father was a general and I served as a soldier in the IDF terrorist organization, people often ask me how is it that Israeli children who are raised in a Western style democracy become such monsters once they are in uniform? The detailed answer can be found in my book, The General’s Son due out in February 2012, but the short answer is this: Education – Racism requires a mindset that is fashioned by education. In order to rationalize and justify the ethnic cleansing the Israeli education system portrays Palestinians as culturally inferior, violent and bent on the annihilation of the Jews, and at the same time, void of a true national identity. Palestinian national identity is but a figment of some anti-Semitic imagination.

Israeli children are educated to see the Palestinians as a problem that must be solved and as a threat that must be eliminated. They can go through life, as I did growing up in Jerusalem, without ever meeting a Palestinian child. They know nothing of the life or culture of Palestinians who quite often live only several hundred meters from them.

Palestinians are portrayed as an existential threat through absurd comparisons like that of Yasser Arafat to Hitler, the Palestinians to Nazis, and the Palestinian resistance to Al Qaeda. Since Israeli kids never meet Palestinians what they learn in school, particularly in the school textbooks, is all that they know. In fact it is remarkable that even though they live so close to one another, much if not all of what Israelis know about their Palestinian neighbors comes from high school text books and popular racist stereotypes. Israelis don’t know that Palestinians never had an army, that they do not posses a single tank, a single warship or fighter jet, that they don’t have a single artillery battery and do not in fact pose a military threat at all. According to a new book by Dr. Nurit Peled-Elhanan, not a single photo of a person who is a Palestinian exists in Israeli textbooks and there are millions of Palestinians in and around Israel. Israelis don’t learn about Palestinian doctors and teachers, engineers and writers. They don’t learn Palestinian poetry or prose and they don’t read the works of Palestinian historians.

At a recent lecture I mentioned the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and someone called out: “What ethnic cleansing?” People are unaware of the ethnic cleansing taking place in Palestine because Israel hides it well and the mainstream media doesn’t care enough to ask. In mainstream peace groups and dialogue groups that discuss Palestine/Israel, a basic Israeli condition is not to bring up issues like the ethnic cleansing because Israel doesn’t like to talk about it.

But for the past 64 years ethnic cleansing of Palestine is what drives the Zionist policies towards Palestinians. All Zionist governments and all Zionist political parties left right and center support the ethnic cleansing. The Israeli judicial system lets the Israeli authorities get away with abuse, theft and murder as long as they are perpetuated against Palestinians. Had these same crimes been committed against Israeli Jews they would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Zionist supporters like to bring up the fact that on November 29, 1947 the United Nations voted to partition Palestine into a Jewish sate and an Arab state. What is left out of the Zionist story is that within one year of the vote Israeli forces had managed to capture close to 80% of Palestine, destroy close to 500 Palestinian towns and villages, kill scores of unarmed civilians and force the exile of some 800,000 Palestinians.

Then, when the UN passed resolution194 in December of 1948, calling for the refugees to be allowed to return to their homes, Israel proceeded to build cities and towns, parks and highways for the use of Jewish Israelis on Palestinian land. Then the Knesset began passing laws that prohibit the return of the refugees and allow the new state to confiscate their lands.

After the war was over, the Palestinians who remained within the newly created Jewish state were forced to become citizens of a state that despised them and saw them as a “problem” and a “threat.” They were designated as “The Arabs of Israel” a designation that stripped them of a national identity and denied them any rights to the land and provided them very limited rights as citizens. From being the rightful owners of their lands and their country they now existed at the pleasure of the new owner of the land, the state of Israel. Palestinian refugees were forced into concentration camps, conveniently called refugee camps, and those that tried to return were shot. A military unit was created for the purpose of punishing Palestinian refugee who “infiltrated” back into their homeland, now called Israel. It was called Unit 101, the notorious Ariel Sharon led it and it made a name for itself as a murderous gang with a license to kill Palestinians.

So regardless of the myth, now perpetuated by Newt Gingrich among others, that says there was no forced ethnic cleansing, we know today that the creation of Israel was made possible through a systematic campaign of ethnic cleansing, conducted by the Jewish militia, involving massacres, terrorism, and the wholesale looting of an entire nation.

Newt Gingrich, being the history buff that he is, might be interested in a story I mention in my book The General’s Son, about my mother. She was born and raised in Jerusalem and she remembers the homes of Palestinians families in neighborhoods in West Jerusalem. She told me that when she was a child, on Saturday afternoons she would go for walks through these neighborhoods, admiring the beauty of the homes, watching families sit together in their beautiful gardens. In 1948 when the Palestinian families were forced out of West Jerusalem, my mother was offered one of those beautiful, spacious homes but she refused. At age 22, the wife of a young army officer with little means and with two small children, she refused a beautiful spacious home, offered to her completely free because she could not bear the thought of living in the home of a family that was forced out and now lives in a refugee camp. “The coffee was still warm on the tables as the soldiers came in and began the looting” she told me. “Can you imagine how much those families, those mothers must miss their homes.” She would ask and she continued, “I remember seeing the truckloads of loot, taken by the Israeli soldiers from these homes. How were they not ashamed of themselves?” there are thousands upon thousands of homes in cities all over the country that were taken.

Moving forward now to 1967 and the myth that Israel was fighting for its existence as it was attacked by Arab armies from all directions. Much was written about this but nothing is more revealing than the minutes of the meetings of the IDF general staff from June 1967, just prior to the war. According to the generals, one of whom was my father, Matti Peled, not only was there no existential threat but the generals clearly state that the Egyptian army needed at least a year and a half before it would be ready for war and therefore this was an opportune time to attack and destroy it. The army pressured the cabinet to authorize an attack and indeed the cabinet approved an attack against Egypt. The IDF destroyed the Egyptian army and then went on to attack Jordan and Syria. It took the IDF six days and 700 casualties to kill an estimated 15,000 Arab forces, take the West Bank, the Golan Heights and The Sinai Peninsula. One may like to think this was a miracle but it was a well-planned, well-executed attack against countries that had no viable military force. The Israeli army had thus fulfilled its goal of conquering the entire Land of Israel, and the De-Arabizing of Palestine could now proceed into the West Bank and Gaza.

Since the early days of the State of Israel the IDF made it its mission to be the most brutal bully in the region. Today the IDF has one purpose: to conduct an all out war against Palestinians by terrorizing Palestinian civilians, kidnapping children from their homes and using brutal force against protesters. We are reminded of the intensity of IDF cruelty every so often, the latest major display being the three-week bloodbath in Gaza that began on December 27, 2008. Hundreds of tons of bombs were dropped by Israeli pilots on Gaza, followed by a massive invasion of land forces. All this for the purpose of terrorizing a defenseless civilian population that includes 800,000 children.

Now that Israel has been in control of the West Bank for over four decades it had built and invested there heavily. But all of the investment and construction in the West Bank was made to bring Jews into the West Bank. Palestinian lands are being taken at an alarming pace, their homes are destroyed and thousands are incarcerated, while industry, roads, malls, schools and gated communities with swimming pools are being built for Jews only. Water, which is the scarcest resource of all, is controlled and distributed by the Israeli water authority, as follows: Per capita, Israelis receive 300 cubic meters of water per year. In comparison, per capita Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza receive 35-85 cubic meters per year, while the World Health Organization recommends a minimum of 100 cubic meter of water per person per year. But what is even worse is that per capita, Israeli settlers in the West Bank are allocated 1500 cubic meters of water per year. Jews in the West Bank live with green lawns and swimming pools while Palestinians quite often get no water at all. Perhaps invented people have no need for water.

De-Arabizing the history of Palestine is another crucial element of the ethnic cleansing. 1500 years of Arab and Muslim rule and culture in Palestine are trivialized, evidence of its existence is being destroyed and all this is done to make the absurd connection between the ancient Hebrew civilization and today’s Israel. The most glaring example of this today is in Silwan, (Wadi Hilwe) a town adjacent to the Old City of Jerusalem with some 50,000 residents. Israel is expelling families from Silwan and destroying their homes because it claims that king David built a city there some 3000 years ago. Thousands of families will be made homeless so that Israel can build a park to commemorate a king that may or may not have lived 3000 years ago. Not a shred of historical evidence exists that can prove King David ever lived yet Palestinian men, women, children and the elderly along with their schools and mosques, churches and ancient cemeteries and any evidence of their existence must be destroyed and then denied so that Zionist claims to exclusive rights to the land may be substantiated.

Once we connect the dots it is not hard to see that the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza is only a small part of the Israeli Palestinian issue. The greater issue is the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine by the Zionist state. The way forward for Israelis and Palestinians alike is to oppose the ethnic cleansing by opposing all its manifestations. This means supporting the movement to boycott, divest and place sanctions on Israel, or BDS for short, it means actively participating in the popular non-violent struggle in Palestine and it means challenging the racist laws that govern Israel by defying them. There has to be a clear and unequivocal call to recognize that the IDF is a terrorist organization and its officers are war criminals. Furthermore, the reprehensible discrimination against Palestinians, whether they live in Israel/Palestine or not, practiced by the security officials at Ben Gurion airport and other points of entry to Israel/Palestine must be challenged. The struggle for a democracy in our shared homeland is no different than the struggle at Tahrir square and can in fact be seen as part of the Arab Spring.

“Miko Peled is a peace activist who dares to say in public what others still choose to deny. He has credibility, so when he debunks myths that Jews around the world hold with blind loyalty, people listen. Miko was born in Jerusalem in 1961 into a well-known Zionist family. His grandfather, Dr. Avraham Katsnelson was a Zionist leader and signer on the Israeli Declaration of Independence. His father, Matti Peled was a young officer in the war of 1948 and a general in the war of 1967 when Israel conquered the West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights and the Sinai. http://mikopeled.wordpress.com/
 

Kit B. (277)
Friday November 16, 2012, 6:57 am

Thank you , Abdessalam. A story well worth reading, and deserving of some deep thinking, a pause for reflection.
 

Anneke Hut (39)
Friday November 16, 2012, 7:32 am
Signed the petition and shared the story.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Friday November 16, 2012, 8:10 am
Kicked Out Margaret,

The whole world knows that Nasser attacked Israel, after long military campaigning and cheering crowds.
What is the point of bringing quotes when Egypt made an act of war - imposing a blockade on Israel? Arab States started the war trying to annihilate Israel, lost and now pretend to be cry babies. I am not buying that crap. If they had nerves to attack - they must be honest to pay the price.

The final borders between Israel and the Arab countries will be set at the negotiations. Until then, Arabs have to understand that they have no rights to the lands of Ottoman Empire. After they managed to get 99.99% of all Middle East lands and gave nothing to Druze and Kurds, their war with Israel to steal the last 0.01 is ridiculous.

 

Alexander Werner (53)
Friday November 16, 2012, 8:13 am
Kit, why did you decide to attach the picture of Muhammed Dura, when it is known by now that he was killed Palestinian Arab bullets?

By now, many people started paying attention to Islamist creativity on YouTube, and are not liked to be fed with Arabian Nights version of Arab-Israeli conflict. As well, as Arab-Druze and Arab-Kurd conflicts.

 

Camila K. (141)
Friday November 16, 2012, 8:44 am
I guess some have eyes but are blind, and have ears but cannot hear, and their hearts are atrophied like stones. Bob, take heed my friend. Thaw your heart and weep for the hatred you perpetuate, and for what end? Truth will always triumph in spite of all the lies and all the crooked paths you tread . I am sorry for all the needless suffering, when the politicians laugh and manipulate the misled to eventually turn on themselves and crumble in shame for wrong minded efforts toward death for all, not just "enemy" but self. Power mongers care nothing for you, in the end. Why do you expend such effort to hurt yourself?
 

Kenneth L. (321)
Friday November 16, 2012, 12:44 pm
Taken from a bigger view way out in space somewhere, someone might wonder: Why would the Supreme Being of an entire universe, such as of the Supreme Being of the Jewish religion, care about a tiny little speck of land on one planet to be called 'the Holy Land' to fight and die for----and the same with the Supreme Being of Islam? Do you know how tiny a speck that is being fought over compared to the size of the universe, of which your Supreme Beings supposedly reign?
Seems to me it ain't any Supreme Being's idea, it's the little human's ideas that cause trouble. Humans have an innate desire to be right, no matter what. Is that what the argument is really all about?
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Friday November 16, 2012, 1:24 pm
Camila,

To help Malala and others like her you need to hate and fight those who wanted to kill her. If you forgive them and let them go they will kill more Malalas. And the blood of these innocent people will be on people who showed wrong concept of love.





 

Alexander Werner (53)
Friday November 16, 2012, 1:25 pm
Ken, no matter Super Being, I am opposing the situation when Arabs got 99.99% of lands in the Middle East, gave nothing to Kurds, Druze and nobody else, and now are fighting to grab 0.01% piece of land given to Jews.
 

Camila K. (141)
Friday November 16, 2012, 1:34 pm
Oh Bob, you are so lost dear friend. I suggest a visit with a mentally healthy rabbi or mental health counselor. Hating those who shot Malala in order to eliminate the hate that caused that is purely insane.
 

Lydia S. (71)
Friday November 16, 2012, 1:58 pm
Bob, I commend you on your intelligent & FACTUAL analysis of the situation ... it is sad, how many Leftists will side with Terrorists, Anarchists & other homicidal maniacs! I suppose, to them -- Ahmadinejad is a "moderate" who only wants nuclear technology for "energy" ... forget the comments about "Death to Israel" -- he was just joking!

And the Muslim Brotherhood, why they never meant it seriously, when they said: "A Caliphate from Spain to Indonesia" -- Nope, no goals of Global Domination there!

Well, the Islamists need nothing more than the "Useful Idiots", who will sell out the West for islamist ideology & sharia! How laughable that they use scripture like "some have eyes but are blind, and have ears but cannot hear" -- and fail to see themselves in these parables! Even as Israel fights to defend herself, they slander the victims & hurl accusations at them, failing to see the REAL reasons for the violence in the region!

I too stand with Israel, and bless the nation and her people! As Golda Meir said: "There will be no peace until the “Palestinians” love their children more than they hate the Jews."

Amen and Shalom!
 

Kit B. (277)
Friday November 16, 2012, 2:22 pm

Just can't make a reasoned, intellectual argument, it has to be name calling and out of context, useless quotations.

I'm so glad that there are those who can see beyond the rhetoric and see that when people are abused of any form of human rights, there will be repercussions.

I don't blame the people of Israel nor the people of Palestine, but those who lead the governments, which is almost always just beyond the reach and influence of the people. The ballot box, as we all know, only means so much, than it must be in hands of those of conscience or those who thrive on power, which in turn means war and destruction.
 

Kit B. (277)
Friday November 16, 2012, 2:28 pm

TIMELINE: Israel's Latest Escalation in Gaza:

On Wednesday, November 14th, it was reported that Israel assassinated the leader of Hamas' military wing, Ahmed Jabari, breaking a tentative truce with Palestinian fighters that had been in place since Monday. The truce followed an escalation in violence that began last Thursday in which 6 Palestinian civilians were killed, including three children, and more than 50 others injured.


- TIMELINE: ISRAEL'S LATEST ESCALATION IN GAZA -


THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8

Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a 12-year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer.

Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier.

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10

An anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian fighters wounds four Israeli soldiers driving in a jeep along the Israel-Gaza boundary.

An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged 16 and 17. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians, and wounding more than two dozen others.

SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11

One Palestinian civilian is killed and dozens more wounded in Israeli attacks. Four Israeli civilians are also injured as a result of projectiles launched from Gaza, according to the Israeli government.

During an Israeli government cabinet meeting, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz urges the government to "cut off the head of the snake... take out the leadership of Hamas in Gaza." He also calls for a cutting off of water, food, electricity, and fuel shipments to Gaza's 1.7 million people.

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12

Palestinian militant factions agree to a truce if Israel ends its attacks.

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14

Israel breaks two days of calm by assassinating Ahmed Jabari, the head of Hamas' military wing. According to reports, at least eight other Palestinians are killed in Israeli attacks, including at least two children. Palestinian militant groups vow to respond.
 

Lois Jordan (54)
Friday November 16, 2012, 3:17 pm
Excellent article, Kit...thanks. Signed Angelika's petition. I agree the state of Palestine needs to be recognized. I also believe the majority of people living in these 2 countries want peace. Their leaders seem to always be hawking for more war and are pushed by a tiny, but vocal segment.
 

Lydia S. (71)
Friday November 16, 2012, 3:58 pm
@ Kit who wrote: "My single object and hope is to promote understanding and with an eye always to peace. I don't want to see the end of Israel, my wishes are that the people will begin to demand more of their government. The people, are all interested in the hopes, dreams and futures of their children, something all of us on this planet, share."

Kit, Peace is not merely the absence of armed conflict -- and YOU may not want to "see the end of Israel", but those whose "Cause" you are promoting, are indeed HELL BENT on the destruction of Israel!

View the video ... "straight from the horses mouth" as they say ... A "Cleric" preaches in Gaza on "peace"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PPvc-eTym-Q

And another ... These two are especially SHOCKING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xHsSb854f0Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY&NR=1&feature=endscreen

You are naive if you believe "The people, are all interested in the hopes, dreams and futures of their children, something all of us on this planet, share." ... Too many palestinians dream of their children being "martyrs" ... they indoctrinate their children to hate, and strap bombs on their bodies! Don't give me the old "There's a reason for that" MYTH! NO decent, reasonable human being would do such a thing!

Here's a video with Hilary Clinton discussing the situation ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIBNRVgq59Y

They claim that the al-Aqsa mosque/Temple Mount is "sacred" in islam -- and demand to take over Jerusalem, yet anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of the history of the region, KNOWS that it is the ancient capitol of Israel, and the center of Judaism & Jewish culture & religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9CauJP4Pg&feature=related

Time to open your eyes to the TRUTH ... not PROPAGANDA!
 

Kit B. (277)
Friday November 16, 2012, 4:34 pm

I've seen the propaganda videos. They are far out weighed by reading actual history, the truth has nothing to do rumors and innuendo. The truth is the unvarnished facts of history. If I believed every misquote, every conspiracy theory, than I would no longer have the ability to use rational logic. My knowledge of history is neither rudimentary nor biased, it is based on reading facts, actual history, not emotion.

You and some others have chosen to categorize me because I am not screaming "Kill the Palestinians", you have no idea who I am, your judgement and bias are clearly defined here.
 

lee e. (114)
Friday November 16, 2012, 8:25 pm
I appreciate the honesty of this article, during the last decade I have become increasingly anti-Israel, not only because of its own hypocrisy especially in commiting such atrocities against the Palestinian people and manipulating the US policies to further their campaign of genocide! This from a nation of refugees that fled the atrocities committed on them! I cannot excuse it! I was so pro Israel for so long, it has long departed my feelings! I am hoping that the Palestinians will be granted their land due them and that Israel will be put in its place! Sorry - it has nothing whatsoever to do with myth believers on either side (since I'm a devout Atheist), but I'm more than tired of our support of such a genocidal state. Get rid of Netanyahu and perhaps there might be hope for change!
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Friday November 16, 2012, 9:30 pm
For everyone here, before you go on, make sure you can answer this question:

How do you enforce laws against armies? You can't just arrest them, or even punish them like one would with normal criminals. They have the power to stop law-enforcers from doing that because they're armies. You can't gather some sort of international support for sanctions and such: If any other country cares enough, then it is already not neutral in the whatever conflict in which the crimes were committed. As for appealing to morals of currently neutral countries, look at how well that works to enforce the convention against genocide.

Seriously, how would you do it? There is a well-established method which, when used fully, works reliably. There is an answer to this question, but it's not pretty.

Hi Kit :)

You left hundreds of rocket-attacks off your timeline as well as the use of new longer-range rockets which struck Tel Aviv and Gush. That was some serious cherry-picking.

Hi Lee,

Do you know what an Israeli campaign of genocide would look like? Aside from that, I strongly recommend that you read the sites to which I linked earlier. There is a good reason why, under certain circumstances, acts which would normally be war-crimes become legal.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Friday November 16, 2012, 10:30 pm
The recession has touched every level of society, from the poor to the very poor — but none have suffered more than our trolls. Once, every troll lived under his very own bridge, but today, many endure squalid, crowded living conditions.

But you can help. Your tax-deductible donation to The Save the Trolls Foundation provides vital housing assistance, allowing trolls to lead lives of dignity once more.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Friday November 16, 2012, 10:51 pm
Off topic - I want to thank an anonymous member which has sent me a Green Star of appreciation! Please, do introduce yourself. I won't brag about it all over the care2, nor will I tell your friends. Cross my hearth...
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:52 pm

"A time comes when silence is betrayal." - Rev. Martin Luther King

Israel Would Have Us Believe That These People Are Terrorists

Pictures Of Children Killed and Injured By Israeli Attack On Gaza November 14, 2012

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33036.htm

 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:21 pm
Bob A. addressing Kit writes " Why do you want to cause harm to peaceful Palestinian Arabs? Instead of supporting war mongers and extremists you could extend hand to those who really want peace."
I am asking Bob : did you support Peaceful Palestinian Arabs ?
If you forgot,I and many here didn't forget when you refused to sign a petition supporting Palestinian prisoners on hunger strike. You were and still is the one who praised the IDF for killing Rachel Chorie and described her as "stupid" because she stood in front of an IDF bulldozer which was in action destroying Palestinian houses . I thought you would be ashamed of yourself just for once . Shame on you.
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 4:23 pm
Hi Abdessalam,

It is quite easy to support the well-being of the general Palestinian population while considering Rachel Corrie stupid and opposing at least some of the terms of the various hunger-strikes.

Corrie stood in front of, if I recall correctly, an armoured bulldozer. Have you ever seen the front of an armoured vehicle? They're not exactly built for drivers' visibility. If she faced the thing, should should have seen immediately that the driver could not see her. Bulldozers are also geared for torque, not speed. I don't want to make light of a woman's death, but in important ways the event resembled this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLlUgilKqms

As for the Palestinian prisoners' demands, the situation was not exactly that of a normal prison. Contact, for a long time, was often made between Palestinian militias and recruits in Israeli prisons. Israel had very, very good reason to confine many prisoners away from the general population, and a hunger-strike didn't change that.

Essentially, as long as one considers the Palestinian leadership and militias to actually be highly detrimental to the well-being of ordinary Palestinians, it is very easy to hold views like Bob's. I support the well-being of ordinary Palestinians, and to that end, I support the utter destruction of their militias and oppose many "peace activists" who work very hard to maintain the conflict and poverty of Palestinians, and "human rights activists" who work to prevent intervention against corrupt and oppressive Palestinian leaders.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:11 pm
Abdessalam, I have nothing to add to the previous post by Stephen. Did you really not get all that earlier, before he explained it to you?

 

Kit B. (277)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:22 pm

I guess you feel all good about yourself now? Very sad. Stephen you do seem to know your science, but not the actual history and background of the situation of Israel-v-Palestine.

I do believe this:

As long as the world takes sides, as long as humans find excuses there will be war. In WWII 65 million people died, and in the end, who won any thing? Children were left without parents, countries devastated, and in the end, there were no winners, only those who lost more.

The background of the exodus to Israel is clear and the reasons known. Any two countries living in this proximity can find common ground for resolution of the issues, but it's politically advantageous to not make a settlement nor an agreement.

So while some of you celebrate another victory for Israel, please think that innocents on both sides of this are dying. There is nothing here to support, that is unless you believe war is ever an answer.

There are some background facts, if you care to read and learn.
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 8:57 pm
Hi Kit :)

Any two peoples living so close can find some common ground, but wars are generally not fought by peoples. They are fought by armed forces, and the armed forces on the Palestinian side are drawn from a specific minority among them, and not controlled democratically. They stand to gain in domestic politics by maintaining pushing for more conflict because that attracts violent followers, and power flows from the barrel of a gun, and Palestinian militias' guns will point whichever way their political leaders say. Among Palestinians, then, political power comes from the attraction of violent followers. The same cannot apply to Israel because its primary armed force, the IDF, follows dictates from a democratically elected government, so its guns are controlled by its votes, because it is a functional democracy.

Even if they can find common ground, though, that is no assurance of peace. the two sides in this conflict have incompatible traditions of conflict-resolution. There are, I think, at least four independent reasons why peace-negotiations have always failed. I have mentioned two. The other two that come to mind right now are the fact that no Palestinian leader has the power to order all Palestinian factions to stand down, and the constantly shifting power-balance due to changing politics of foreign powers which get involved.

I am not celebrating another victory for Israel, certainly not yet. Good people are dying on both sides, more than are reported, and with the Muslim Brotherhood in power in Egypt, there is always the danger of violence coming from there in support of Hamas, which could lead to another full-scale war. On top of that, the West Bank is showing solidarity with Gaza this time, whereas in 2008 it did not. There have only been two "victories" for Israel that I see coming of this: Israel has destroyed massive numbers of Palestinian munitions, and, hopefully, the now-demonstrated reach of the Palestinian rockets will make the ultra-Orthodox conscripts, who start joining the IDF, I think, this coming June, take things seriously.

I have read and learned quite a lot. The trouble is, as I just noted on another thread, that due to foreign meddling propaganda is a full-blown front in this conflict. The news is thoroughly littered with it. A classic case was the al-Dura "killing": Watching nearly any ten consecutive seconds of the video, you can see that the shape of the pock-marks in the wall show that the bullets came from the direction of the camera, and the man and child "hid" behind something that would protect them only from a totally different direction. I knew it was faked almost right away, but you can imagine the response I got when I pointed it out. The trouble in understanding modern history isn't in a lack of data: It's in the data-quality. The information and narratives usually presented are not reliably accurate, and sometimes even self-contradictory, and can easily leave people believing that they understand things when they do not.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 7:11 am

The Israeli bombing in Gaza has already killed an eleven month old baby. People have nowhere to hide from the missiles and mortars -- Gaza is a prison. All mothers can do is stay indoors, put mattresses against windows, and pray for their children.

Israel’s attack may be a cynical move to drum up fear so that voters reelect Israel's right-wing extremist government. The massive suffering in Gaza will only increase unless global leaders step in to stop it.

With both Israel and Hamas threatening to escalate, it’s likely to get much worse unless the US, which has massive leverage over Israel, works with the EU and the Arab League to intervene. Click to call on them to take immediate steps to get a comprehensive ceasefire and end the blockade that’s strangling Gaza. Then share this with everyone -- let's make a noise they can't ignore:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_the_gaza_killings_a/?bSCRfcb&v=19311
 

Kit B. (277)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 7:51 am

Stephen, wars are generated for many reasons, most are about political power and gains for those in power. The blame you wish allocate belongs to the leadership in Gaza and Israel. The "common man" cares not for war, and wishes only a opportunity to live in peace, offer shelter, food and medical care for himself (herself) and their families. The people of Gaza, nor the people of Israel are, to use a common if misused phrase, not "evil" they are not different than yourself. Think of your own desires for your life. All people on this beleaguered planet have almost identical desires.

At this point in time, I am wondering if a coalition of countries can stop this violence and then, even to the objection of both parties, manage and monitor the situation. We can not impose peace, but we can force a cease fire, and perhaps intervention is the one answer we have not used. Not intervention with "boots on the ground."
 

Ahron E. (5)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 10:57 am
I do not believe an 11 month old baby was killed. The Arabs have been making up stories for years, have produced pictures from events else where or a different time or doctored. They have already shown a picture that actually happened in Syria. Yes Gaza is under seige only to make sure weapons aren't brought in to attack Israelis every thing else is brought in. The shelves in the stores are well stocked.

Why wasn't there are call to end the violence of all those rockets sent into Israel from Gaza. Know that Israel is doing something about it chicken Hamas wants to hid behide the skirt of Mama EU.

All Gazan are responsable since they voted for Hamas that was there choice. If the people of Gaza really want peace they should vote for peace loving leaders.
 

Ahron E. (5)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 11:18 am
Kit why does Hamas need any rockets and what do you propose to end the fireing of them into Israel? Israel is not at war with the Arabs the Arabs are at war with Israel and will not be happy until there is no longer an Israel. They want all Jews dead, includeing you if you are Jewish and your Rabbi friend from The Jewish Voice for peace.
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 3:49 pm
Hi Abdessalam,

Do you know why Palestinians lack bomb-shelters? I know there have been restrictions on construction-materials moving into Gaza, but I also know there has been some new construction. The UNRWA certainly has the funding, as does Hamas if it can afford to build all those rockets and run some services of state. I know often people argue points here, but I am genuinely not doing that with this question. I am curious.

Hi Kit :)

People do have many similar desires, but cultural differences really do have an impact. We all want prosperity, good health, and peace for themselves, and those of us who are not mentally ill and possess compassion want a virtuous society. Much of the problem lies in different definitions of "virtuous". A lot of people define "virtue" in religious terms. Some define it in terms of freedom, others define it in terms of security, still others define it in terms of equal opportunity, and then there are those who define it in terms of equal wealth. Then there are those who define it in terms of leadership, wanting their society to be led by those who, they believe, understand what they are doing. Under many circumstances, these come into conflict. Sadly, with so many people making mutually exclusive demands for what they believe is right, and fighting over it, I am uncertain whether humanity actually does any better than it would if we were all psychopaths who didn't care how other people treated each other. There certainly are wars created for reasons of domestic politics, access to natural resources, and other traditional reasons, but I think conflicting beliefs regarding what is right may have more to do with it these days.

A coalition of countries cannot stop the violence. It has been tried before, in Lebanon and Egypt. The trouble with peacekeepers is that they are restricted in two ways: First, they cannot appear to pose a threat to either side. If they do, they get treated like an occupying force and face trouble like the U.S. did in Iraq. Instead, they are meant to rely upon their uniforms and the implication that an attack on them would lead to a response from their countries. Second, they cannot "cross the Mogadishu Line" and be seen as having taken a side in the conflict. In both Lebanon and Egypt, they crossed the Mogadishu Line in war against Israel, which no longer has any reason at all to trust them and would likely ignore their presence when targeting its strikes.. Specifically, in Egypt, Israel agreed to stop advancing upon Egypt in 1956 on the assurance that foreign forces around the Suez would maintain the ceasefire and prevent any counterattack. Those forces (apparently the first U.N. peacekeepers) stepped aside without contest the minute Egypt felt ready to attack Israel, in 1967, and foreign powers made no further move to restrain Egypt. That betrayal has not been forgotten. Then there was Lebanon, where the U.N. peacekeepers had Hezbollah firing from right outside their buildings, offering themselves as what were supposed to be the greatest human shields ever used. Israel bombed the launching-sites anyways. With the behaviour of the UNRWA, after its ambulances have been documented transporting militants and their materials, I expect that just about any U.N.-sanctioned intervention would be seen by Israel as an invasion and dealt with accordingly. Maybe if could work if it were American-led, but how many Palestinians and other Arabs would be happy about an apparent U.S. occupation of Gaza, and how long before the U.S. faces another Iraq-style campaign?
 

Jelica R. (159)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 10:20 pm
Someone asked why Hamas does not seek a truce. For those who ignore facts: after exchange of fire, last weekend (Nov. 10 and 11) was calm, until the Palestinian negotiator was killed in a targeted attack on monday, Nov. 12. Then it started all over again.

Just a thought: if you sincerely want peace, will you kill a messenger?
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 11:05 pm
Hi Jelica,

"last weekend (Nov. 10 and 11) was calm" ... except for over 100 rockets fired from Gaza at Israel.
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291300
Then there was the anti-tank missile fired at an IDF vehicle.

Israel responded to the anti-tank weapon, apparently killing 4 - 6 people including at least two militants, depending on the source.
http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8978

This article seems to corroborate both:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2012/1115/How-many-rockets-were-fired-from-Gaza-at-Israel-this-year

That was not what I call a calm weekend.

I should point out that no major operation in modern history has managed better than 50% targeting-accuracy in urban combat. They all killed more civilians than enemy forces. If I recall correctly, the record for cleanliness of an operation, adjusted for scale, was set by the well-known strike in Jenin, followed closely by Cast Lead, both IDF-operations.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Monday November 19, 2012, 12:22 am
Timeline; by Nov. 15. 2012 - 14:29

"-- On 10 November (Saturday), Palestinian resistance fighters attacked an Israeli army jeep near the boundary with Gaza (on Gaza territory), injuring 4 Israeli occupation soldiers.

Following this, Israel attacked civilian neighborhoods in Gaza. In the ensuing 72 hour period, Israeli forced killed 7 Palestinians. According to PCHR, five of the dead were civilians, including 3 children. Fifty-two others, including 6 women and 12 children were wounded.

“Four of these deaths and 38 of the injuries resulted from an Israeli attack on a football playground in al-Shoja’iya neighborhood east of Gaza City,” PCHR reported.

Not surprisingly, Palestinians fired rockets into Israel, as recorded by “Qassam Count”.

-- Qassam Count records no rockets on (Sunday) 11 November. This can perhaps be explained by the fact that Palestinian factions were in talks over a truce and were keen to see calm restored.

Israel’s Ynet reported on 11 November:

"Egyptian Intelligence officials have successfully brokered an end to the current round of escalation in the south, Ynet learned Sunday. No Israeli source has corroborated the report."

The Ynet reported added:

"According to senior Egyptian sources, both Hamas and Islamic Jihad have agreed to hold their fire if Israel suspends its airstrike on Gaza. Cairo-based sources said that Israel reportedly agreed not to retaliate over sporadic rocket fire from Gaza, as long as it was sans casualties."

-- Yet on (Monday) 12 November, two rockets were fired into Israel according to Qassam Count. This came amid two days of air attacks by Israel on the Gaza Strip.

-- Reuters reported on 13 November:

"After five days of mounting violence, Israel and the Palestinians stepped back from the brink of a new war in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, sending signals to each other via Egypt that they would hold their fire unless attacked."
.......
"Ismail Haniyeh, prime minister of Gaza’s Hamas government, praised the main armed factions in the enclave for agreeing on Monday night to a truce. “They showed a high sense of responsibility by saying they would respect calm should the Israeli occupation also abide by it,” he said."

-- Yet Israel was not interested in calm.
On Wednesday, 14 November Israel carried out the extrajudicial killing of Hamas military chief Ahmad al-Jabari.

Reuters noted that the Israeli attack “appeared to end a 24-hour lull in cross-border violence that surged this week.”

The rest is tragic history, some undoubtedly yet to be written in innocent blood."

While it was not quite calm, there were efforts to negotiate and a decline in attack.

Also, I would not compare home-made rockets with up-to-a-teeth armed IDF. Note that Palestinians do not have marine and air forces, and their land forces lack any serious anti-shield weapons.

Cast Lead was "clean operation"? That's not what independent analysis' claim, in contrast with what IDF has reported.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Monday November 19, 2012, 12:29 am
Should I add that also a funeral ceremony for a killed Palestinian boy footballer was targeted by IDF? Have you heard of this crime?
 

Stephen Brian (24)
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:31 am
Hi Jelica,

Yup, standard Israeli practice is to fire upon the site from which rockets or other attacks originate. Open fields are very good for both sports and rocket-launching as there are no obstructions limiting the launch-angle. Piece of advice: Don't go to places from which rockets have been recently launched. The other side will assume the place is occupied only by accomplices.

There were, apparently, sixty-four rockets on November 11. Even Qassam Count, the source you used, said there were at least 16 (only counting nighttime-attacks and attacks less than one hour before one of its posts).

It is not possible to broker a deal between two groups if one does not accept it. If an Israeli source does not confirm that a deal has been brokered, it hasn't. The same goes if a Hamas-based source does not confirm it. As for hitting the

Also, there is nothing extrajudicial about killing an enemy commander in the middle of an active conflict, whether international or a rebellion. The PCHR appears to be inaccessible right now, but I recall seeing that the two people killed at the footballer's funeral were identified by it as Hamas militants. Again, nothing illegal about killing those guys.

The rockets used by Hamas are not "home-made" anymore. That was possible with the Qassam Mk 1, and impractical, though still possible with the Mk 2. Grad rockets were developed by the Soviets for their army, and Hamas uses longer-range, deadlier, versions than the Soviets had. Hamas now uses Qassam Mk 3s, Mk 4s, Grad rockets, and has begun using a rocket designed for the Iranian military. Ten Kg fertilizer-bomb warheads are not "firecrackers" as many have claimed.

There is no such thing as urban combat clean enough for most independent analysts. They demand something no army has ever accomplished, and which seems impossible given the nature of modern weapons and the tactical doctrine of urban guerrillas. Cast Lead was as clean as has ever been accomplished for an operation on that scale. It even pioneered a new method of keeping civilians safe, robocalling areas where bombs were about to land. The new method obviously wasn't perfect, but it helped.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 5:57 am


President Obama: Stop Israel's Attacks on Gaza

http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/641/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=11938
 

Kit B. (277)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 6:34 am

Thank you, Abdessalam. Petition - signed and shared.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 6:50 am
. This is another petition calling for " Support a Permanent Cease-fire in Gaza"
Please sign and share

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/418/681/033/#
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 6:52 am
Thanks Kit for standing beside peace and Palestinians rights.
 

Kit B. (277)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 6:58 am

Kit, You signed on November 20, 2012.
Your signature has been delivered to:
President Barack Obama
 

Ahron E. (5)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 7:42 pm
Jelica R. do you mean to say it wasn't right we killed 100,000 Japanese with our atomic bomb and 100,000 Americans should have been killed? How many Israeli have to be killed to make it fair in your numbers game. Also, was it correct for 1,000 terrosist to be traded for one Israeli. In addition you leave out 1 million Israeli civilians are terrorised every time a rocket is blasted from Gaza. Walk in the streets of Sedoret. The people have 15 seconds to find shelter from in incoming rocket. If rockets stop coming into Israel from Gaza this conflict will end.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 1:08 am
I usually keep a radio on. All I can hear today was about truce talks. Hamas said they were waiting for Israeli side confirmation. Yet, in the last 24 hours, 28 were killed (confirmed!) and more than 250 injured in Gaza Ghetto. WHILE TRUCE TALKS WERE UNDERWAY! Source for causalties: Current Internet, telecommunication and death toll situation/status in #Gaza | #OpIsrael

So, no, I do not think it is legitimate to kill an enemy commander in the middle of an active conflict if he happens to be a chef negotiator in ongoing truce talks, and keep complaining for being attacked.

The operation Cast Lead had a death toll ratio of 100 Palestinians to 1 Israeli. The UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs identified the records - each confirmed by at least two sources - of 1,383 Palestinians killed, including 333 children and and 121 women, with only 235 combatants. A total of 5,303 Palestinians were injured in the assault, including 1,606 children and 828 women. Most of the fatalities were not involved in the fighting. You call this clean operation? Certainly, with those high-precision weapons even my grandma could have less civilian casualties.

About stories of Iranian smugled weapons: if you imply on Fajr missiles, it is quite a beast. The Fajr-5 missile is 9,5 METERS long, and requires a big, sophisticated launching device. It is impossible, that such material could be smuggled into Gaza without being spotted by permanent drone presence over the territory.
 

Kit B. (277)
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 1:43 am

I had just turned on the TV and saw a banner headline. ***Conflict ends at 2:00pm EST*** I was overjoyed for a few minutes. That was not to be. The death toll will continue to rise. Children will continue to be killed or injured and their lives permanently altered.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 5:17 pm
Ahron, according to some historians, Japan was ready to surrender and just needed an excuse to save some honour. Besides, USA was eager to test it's new weapon...

Interesting how you equalize; 100,000 Japanese = 100,000 Americans. Yet Cast Lead ratio was 1 Israeli = 100 Palestinians, and you are apparently OK with this.

My favourite death ratio is 0 Nation A = 0 Nation B.

We all know that Israel has hundreds of Palestinians in it's jails at any given time, including children - currently slightly less that 300. For those who think that some 12 years old kid is a terrorist, I can suggest that assistance of a professional mental health specialist is necessary. They obviously never have had any experience with teenagers.
 

Kit B. (277)
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 5:47 pm

A new bomb, oh boy. Let's kill some people and we did, and are still finding ways to excuse that.

If there is any doubt about Jelica said, off to a shrink, a psychiatrist or psychologist with you.
 

Ahron E. (5)
Thursday November 22, 2012, 9:24 pm
How stupid of ISRAELS' leaders to cave in to the wife of the "presidential porn star" when what ISRAEL needs to do is defend itself with all its' own intelligence and self-determination. What, the USA can destroy two sovereign countries and murder 100's of thousands of innocent men, women and children in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN based on LIES to the whole world, but have the hypocritical arrogance to force ISRAEL to discontinue her just defense of herself, so that she remains vulnerable to terrorist attacks? Unbelievable!
 

Jelica R. (159)
Wednesday November 28, 2012, 6:42 pm
Was it stupid? The shelling from Gaza has stopped, didn't it? Do you think that Israeli leaders were stupid to accept a ceasefire arrangement? Then you are a war monger, thinking that killing can solve everything from measles to rotten banking system. I'm so glad you are not my neighbour, I do not want to fight over a parking lot until we both end with our cars demolished, a big hole in a parking place and we kill each other, and our family members, friends and bystanders.

 

Ahron E. (5)
Wednesday November 28, 2012, 9:28 pm
Jelica As in previous cease fires Hamas will start shooting rockets again into Israel. Hamas has already started importing more rockets. What do they need them for if they have peaceful intentions. Israel has no need or desire to invade or attack Gaza. This war was only to defend itself from these very same rockets. Actually Monday night a rocket was launched to Israel from Gaza. It never stops completly.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Wednesday November 28, 2012, 9:40 pm
... and why does Israel need all those weapons? For the very same reason Hamas needs them.

And friday, Nov. 23 one Palestinian was killed and 9 other injured while on Gaza territory. Just to confirm Israeli deep devotion to peace and upholding the ceasefire. This also never stops completely, but you choose not to pay attention.
 

jo M. (3)
Wednesday November 28, 2012, 9:56 pm
Thank you, Stephan.
 

Ahron E. (5)
Monday December 3, 2012, 9:18 pm
See video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TI5Mwyhzhg
 

Jelica R. (159)
Tuesday December 4, 2012, 5:48 pm
Oh, my... another Hasbara piece, full of twisted logic, suppressed facts and pure lies. Every so often, someone offers that link in a desperate attempt to justify a "targeted attack on terrorists" resulting with dead children or some other appalling deed.
 

Ee F. (0)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 12:32 pm
Google "EAPPI" - you will find an unbiased view of the situation. The impartial views of the EAPPI people (they are reporting to the UN too) confirm that Kit's facts are correct, and the Israeli government is being allowed to get away with overwhelmingly heavy-handed, bullying and unlawful behaviour, in the name of their people, most of whom don't want it to continue any more than the Palestinians do. If other governments around the world stepped up to the mark and said so, it would stop. A peaceful solution can and must be found.
 
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