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Multiple Fatalities Reported in Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School


Society & Culture  (tags: abuse, activists, americans, children, crime, culture, death, dishonesty, education, ethics, family, freedoms, government, law, media, murder, news, police, politics, rights, society, violence )

Kit
- 641 days ago - nytimes.com
At last news up date there are 29 dead, 8 adults and the rest are children from K - 4 th grade. Gun man is dead, details in story from New York Times.



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Comments

Roseann D. (178)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:01 am
WTF is going on??? My heart just breaks for these innocent little kids.
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:05 am
(Photo Credit: Shannon Hicks/The Newtown Bee)

Report from the The New York Times - this is a rapidly changing story and new information comes across the news channels and the Internet.
****************


Eighteen children were killed on Friday morning in a shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., about 65 miles northeast of New York City, according to a person who had been briefed on the shooting. Another law enforcement official said preliminary reports suggested there could be as many as 20 fatalities, ranking it among the worst mass killings in United States history.

One state official said that an adult gunman was believed to be dead in the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. The gunman was in possession of at least two firearms, the official said. There was some speculation that there were two gunmen involved in the mass shooting.

A student at the school told an NBC affiliate in Connecticut: “I was in the gym and I heard like seven loud booms, and the gym teachers told us to go in the corner and we huddled. We all heard these booming noises, and we started crying. So the gym teachers told us to go into the office where no one could find us. Then a police officer told us to run outside.”

Meredith Artley, the managing editor of CNN.com, has a friend who works at the school. “She volunteers with the school as well,” Ms. Artley said on CNN.

The woman was in close vicinity to the shooting, which happened in the hallway, according to Ms. Artley. “She described it as a ‘Pop, pop, pop,'” Ms. Artley added. “She said three people went out into the hall and only one person came back, the vice principal, she said, who was shot in the leg or the foot, who came crawling back. She cowered under the table and called 911. She never saw the shooting. There must have been a hundred rounds.”

President Obama was briefed on the shooting at 10:30 a.m., the White House said.

State police say the Newtown police called them around 9:40 a.m., The Associated Press reported. A SWAT team was among the enormous deployment of law enforcement officers who descended on the school. At least one sharpshooter could be seen on the roof of the school.

Danbury Hospital said it was treating three patients from the shooting scene, according to its Facebook page. The hospital, which is not far from the elementary school, said it was on lockdown.

At Danbury hospital, stunned-looking personnel in white coats looked shaken as they gathered in small groups talking about the shooting. In a corner near the gift shop, one woman comforted a weeping colleague.

In the coffee shop, a few customers finished their sandwiches at the lunch counter and the cashier wiped tears from her eyes as she rang up customers.

In a mostly empty fifth floor waiting room, three women watched local coverage of the tragedy, shaking their heads at each new horrifying detail.

Gov. Dannel P. Malloy arrived at the scene of the shooting on Friday afternoon.

The school, located among wooded hills and suburban tracts in Fairfield County, 12 miles east of Danbury, serves kindergarten through fourth grade. The school has about 700 students.

According to a local newspaper, The Newtown Bee, shortly after 9:30 a.m. on Friday, one child was carried from the school by a police officer, apparently seriously wounded, and other children were escorted from the school by the state police. A photograph published by The Bee showed children outside the school visibly upset.
**************

By JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN and WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM | The New York Times |

 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:11 am

This is beyond the Second Amendment, we have seen enough of this entrenched Gun Culture. I realize that if Obama attempts to lead on this topic the republicans will light their hair on fire, but it is past time to tell the NRA to "blow - it -out- their ear, and begin to find sound solutions that allow children to attend schools, people to shop or gather in public areas without fear of who is toting a gun with the intent to kill randomly.
 

Cam V. (417)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:12 am
This is such a tragedy Kit. While I do not support taking guns away I have always wondered why Americans are allowed to buy guns that the military has. I hold that people kill - not guns but man oh man there are too many wackos across the line getting their hands on guns that can kill a lot of people in a very short time.

Heard if that gun had not jammmed on that kid at that mall the other day the death toll would have been a lot higher. While this is the time for mourning I also think it is time for you folks to take a look at who is getting their hands on these guns and if they are really needed in the homes of people. Also heard that kids at that mall has stolen the gun from someone. It did not belong to him so where is the responsibility to the OWNER of that gun?
 

Cheryl O. (82)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:15 am
yes I posted this to my blog a little bit ago, this is terrible. Noted ty Kit
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:15 am
Every single recent day-the last one yesterday-there have been TV discussions on the gun issue and today now THIS- fatalities number growing-, the most horrible tragedy anyone can think of just ahead of Xmas..
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:19 am

The owner of the guns in Oregon was unaware that his guns had been stolen until after the fact. I question why anyone needs that fire power if not a part of a SWAT team or the US military on the battlefield These are babies, every parents worst nightmare is being displayed in HD color, right now from this small town, in a small elementary school.. Frankly, I don't care if the shooter is a psychopath, we write off these shooting too easily by labeling these shooters as crazy and in fact, we know the next one will happen.
 

Cheryl O. (82)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:21 am
The problem with taking guns away will not stop problems. The criminals will still have guns, people who have them legally will just become unable to protect themselves. Over a million deaths are prevented because legit gun owners were able to defend themselves against the illegal gun holders may have taken out the family. The only thing that taking guns will do is change the way the criminals dominate the streets. I bet you the gunman in this school shooting did NOT have a gun legally.
 

Cheryl O. (82)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:23 am
Either way though we can all agree that this is so horrible. Hugs to all! Ty Kit
 

Nancy G. (56)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:34 am
Sick so far 27 kids dead in shock over this .
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:34 am

The shooter appears to be a 24 year old, Ryan Lanza, whose mother teaches at this elementary school, whether or not she was injured is still unknown. A body was found in Hoboken NJ, believed to be the father of the shooter. Currently it is believed that beyond the 8 adults killed the children ranged in age from 5 to 10 years of age, currently 16 are known to be dead.

I find this to be heart wrenching and painful to watch or hear about. Hear we must, because we must begin a national diagogue
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:36 am

We must begin a national discussion while this is painfully on our minds. In two days time this will be history and nothing will have been learned from this or any of the past shootings/
 

Cher C. (1466)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:58 am


This breaks my heart!

Thnx for posting sweetie!

 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:03 pm

Tragic! I'm watching coverage on tv now.

(Kindergarten to 4th grade??????) A parent's worst nightmare.

 

Barbara K. (84)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:03 pm
This is so horrifying, what has become of common sense and decency in this country and around the world? It is not just "people" kill ----- It is is "People With Guns" kill. I agree, Kit, this is way beyond the 2nd Amendment. The NRA makes lots of money from the dues of gun-toters, so they promote gun ownership, they collect $1,000 or more per year for "membership" that people don't even need. I think it is time to hold the NRA accountable for some of this mess they have greedily pushed for and caused. Look at the laws in Florida and other states that they pushed for and how many have been murdered now. This is just plain nuts.
 

Barbara F. (64)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:06 pm
SUCH A HORRIBLE, SENSELESS TRAGEDY! WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN, SEEMINGLY MORE AROUND THE HOLIDAYS AND WHY THE INNOCENT CHILDREN???? I'M HORRIFIED, DISGUSTED, AND SO SAD!
 

JL A. (275)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:07 pm
There is something more gut wrenching when killings occur at elementary schools--we had one with fewer deaths a couple years ago, and some are still traumatized and recovering...if it was a family matter I wish it had stayed at a non-public place where children weren't. RIP
 

Dee C. (214)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:07 pm
Been watching it on and off since it happened..The death toll is closer to 30 now..18 of which were children..

The press will be speaking at 3:15..

Heartbreaking to say the very least..And those parents who have lost their children for them this will never be history..Or for anyone who has lost a loved one..

I don't think we need a discussion..far too many of them..Just words without actions..And it is actions we need now..

He shot his own mother and all of those babies..Sick..and so heartbreaking..

 

Past Member (0)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:07 pm
Thank you Kit. I first saw the story this AM on Yahoo news and then switched to the tv. It seems to be a double tragedy because of the timing.
 

Pat B. (354)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:08 pm
Absolutely heartbreaking.!!!
 

Barbara K. (84)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:11 pm
Just signed a Care2 petition on this, Kit, here is the link:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/796/536/090/how-many-kids-need-to-die-we-need-better-gun-control-now/
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:11 pm
Dee is correct, you need LEGISLATION ! If THIS doesn't send the strongest message to all the defenders of gun ownership, NRA lobbyists et al, what will? The law MUST BE CHANGED.Period.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:12 pm
Any weapon is made and used TO KILL, NOT to defend.
 

Jim Phillips (3209)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:12 pm
I am left speechless... My mouth is dropping in an exclamation of OMG...

Kids, children that have been murdered.. injured...

.
 

pam w. (191)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:17 pm
Thanks for posting this, Kit! I'm weeping for everyone involved here....even the newscasters who have to maintain a calm demeanor in the presence of such agony!

to CHERYL O. I'm familiar with your ideas that "taking guns away won't solve the problem."

HOWEVER....this is NOT a problem with only one solution! Obviously, getting automatic weapons off the streets will help!

Telling ourselves that even swimmers drown doesn't mean we don't send our kids to swimming lessons.

Saying that criminals will still get their hands on guns doesn't mean we shouldn't get automatic weapons off the shelves.

That's just giving up!

I'm quite sure the "founding fathers" didn't intend ANYTHING like this when they created the second amendment....and we all know it!

I'm with you, Kit. The NRA can either help solve this problem or they can get out of the way! (Of course, these are the same people who fight the State of California in our attempt to get rid of lead jackets for bullets because hunters leave them in the field and then, condors eat them and die. The NRA doesn't want anyone TAKING AWAY THEIR RIGHTS.)

(That's another battle.)
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:17 pm
tHX Barbara, signed. everyone sign here please

GUN CONTROL NOW !
 

Barbara K. (84)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:17 pm
The President is speaking right now.
 

Caree C. (299)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:20 pm
This brings back a flood of terribly sad thoughts - Columbine, Jonesboro, Virginia Tech ... and the list goes on. Children everywhere should be safe in their schools and we shouldn't have to turn them into fortresses. We may in time try to rationalize how something like this happens, but there's no way we can rationalize crazed, irrational actions. It's just downright incomprehensible and tragic. My heart breaks for everyone there.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:21 pm
and he wiped his tears away..
 

pam w. (191)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:22 pm
The President's tears are our tears.
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:26 pm

I don't believe I have ever seen a more honest or emotional reaction by a president.
 

Nyack Clancy (435)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:26 pm
You can take the guns away, but it wont stop the problem. Look at the Oklahoma City bombing that cost 168 lives.

We have a VERY serious mental health issue in this country, Condoning discrimination and bullying can have NO positive results. EVER.
 

Arielle S. (317)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:31 pm
The NRA must be so proud. Of course taking guns away won't solve it all - but you can't kill 26 people with a knife or a baseball bat. Ordinary citizens do NOT need the kind of gun power that is so easily available - whatever is it going to take to stop it all? Heartbreaking and so close to Christmas...
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:33 pm

The petition is at Care2 - the petition site (PLEASE SIGN)

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/796/536/090/how-many-kids-need-to-die-we-need-better-gun-control-now/


Target: President Barack Obama, House of Representatives, U.S. Senate
Sponsored by: Jamie Olsen

Today 27 innocent civilians, including 18 children - mostly Kindergartners - were killed senselessly by an adult with two guns. These children were dropped off by their parents at their elementary school, two weeks before the Holiday Break. These kids should have been safe.

On Tuesday, a youth sports coach and a hospice nurse were shot to death while doing their holiday shopping at a community shopping mall outside of Portland, Ore. by a man they did not know. They should have been safe.

On July 20, 2012, a heavily-armed man entered a movie theater in suburban Denver early Friday where families, kids and couples had gathered for a premier. He opened fire, killing 12 people and injuring 50 others, among them children.

It's time for our lawmakers to stand up to the Gun lobby, the NRA, and those who preach about "gun rights," and to enact a ban on automatic and semi-automatic weapons. It's time to strengthen gun control laws, to hold accountable those who don't uphold them, and to take action to protect the most precious and innocent members of our society.

It's time to be responsible.

The opposition will plead a 'Right to Bear Arms."

I'd like to plead the "Right of 18 Kindergarten Children to live to see their fifth birthday."

Plead with me. Stand up, Congress. Stand Up, President Obama.
 

Dee C. (214)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:33 pm
I agree with Nyack..

This is a very sick and disturbed young man that killed his brother..mother and all of those babies..Having said that in no way whatsoever does it justify the sick actions..but has little to do with guns..These individuals will kill in any way shape or form..if that is what they have in their sick heads..
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:35 pm

"Heartbreaking and so close to Christmas..."

Yes, Arielle, whenever I hear of a tragedy such as this occurring near a holiday, that is usually my first thought.

None of those who lost a loved ones will ever be able to celebrate this holiday without some sadness.

 

Barbara K. (84)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:36 pm
More Info. -- They found his brother's body, and a body they think is his father's, several miles away. His Mother was a kindergarten teacher, he killed her and most of the kids he killed were in that classroom. Kindergarteners!
What a rampage and so many broken hearts in that town tonight.
 

karen n. (57)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:38 pm
What a sad day-i feel so badly for the children and adults that were gunned down,the parents,teachers and the poor children that had to go through this horribly tramatic event-I dont know when or if anyone can ever get over somthing this horriffic-somthing has to change,there have been too many shootings the last few years-we need to learn from this-really think,and then think of what can be done to stop these horrible crimes.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:39 pm
GUESTBOOK CN shooting victims

please express your sympathy here
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:41 pm
Dee- it is BOTH ! It DOES have to do with guns AND with a sick mind, Nyack said that very correctly.
 

rosemary weston (1)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:45 pm
as pam said. this is not a problem with one solution.
we need better understanding of mental illness, to recognize it early on and how to deal with it before this sort of thing happens. our society doesn't look after it's own until something terrible happens and it is too late. the shooter was not a sane person and not really responsible for his actions. it is easy to say, "why didn't he just shoot himself first..." and put all the blame on him. if someone had been paying attention and had cared, this may not have happened. we need to look out for each other and care about each other every day.
 

SuSanne P. (182)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:46 pm
Thank you Kit. Just this moment my friend Tim phoned me telling me of this horror as his extremely ill mum took the news so badly she may have to be hospitalized for this HEARTBREAKING slaughter. Gun (laws)??? I appreciate the petition and thank you Angelica for adding the link. Signed #8.
I am hanging on a thread right now and just cannot watch this at the moment. My Prayers are for all the families and innocents. Lighting candles right this moment.

From your lips to God's ears Angie. Personally I don't give it one percentage point!
"If THIS doesn't send the strongest message to all the defenders of gun ownership, NRA lobbyists et al, what will?
Off to pray and light candles...
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:49 pm

Having a gun within a home for the sole purpose of self protection is not be any means the question this country needs to address. Why does any one need an assault rifle? Because it's covered by the 2sd amendment? NO it is not. The second amendment was a part of the Bill of Rights because we as an infant nation knew that we might need to again form an army and an armed militia seemed a good idea. Also, it was a fact of life that people did need the ability to hunt for food and occasionally for needed arms for self protection. Separate fact from propaganda when addressing so-called "gun rights."

We have some laws in place for waiting periods, most states ignore them or have made it even easier to have access to any fire arm one desires. Texas now has laws that allow in fact, encourage fire arms on a college campus - pause and consider what that really means.
 

Kathy B. (98)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:49 pm
I believe that if our forefathers had any idea how technology would involve with regards to guns, the 2nd amendment would have been written different.

I'm for the right to bear arms - as long as we go back to the technology that was available when the 2nd amendment was written.
 

karen n. (57)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:57 pm
Kit thankyou :)
 

Nyack Clancy (435)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:58 pm
No one needs a gun to hunt for food anymore. This is not the 1600s. They hunt for sport, because it is fun, and they enjoy killing. Killing animals for sport is only a segway for hunting people. Animal rights people have been saying this for decades.

Nealy every single serial killer has started out abusing animals.
 

JL A. (275)
Friday December 14, 2012, 12:59 pm
We used to have an assault weapons ban in this country--we need it restored. Many would still be alive had mass murderers on a rampage had more limited fire power. Signing Kit.
 

Robert B. (57)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:01 pm
I really feel sorry for the children and their parents. According to reports on TV the guns, a glock handgun and an assault rifle, were registered to the shooter's mother. What sickens me is that the pro gun rights people IMMEDIATELY start defending guns with idiotic slogans like "guns don't kill people, people kill people.", "if guns are outlawed, only crooks will have guns" , blah blah, blah. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH BACKGROUND CHECKS for buyers of handguns and I'm sorry but no one but law enforcement or the military should have assault rifles. There is no reason to let the average joe have an assault rifle, NONE! It makes a much sense as allowing the public to buy bombs or shoulder mounted ground to air missiles. I personally would not spend a dime on a hand gun. I refuse to live like a paranoid twit. It is time for Congress to face this problem and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. SCREW THE NRA.
 

Dee C. (214)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:08 pm
No one needs nor should have an assault weapon..ever for any reason unless you are LE..

"As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons,"
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:15 pm

Thank you Robert, and yes Nyack that is true no one NEEDS to hunt for food this is not the country of our founding fathers.

If ever there was a time for honest and yes, emotional BI-PARTISAN action on this it is now. We always write this off as just one crazy person - how long can keep ignoring this?

A gun can not kill anyone unless it is in the hands of a human being. Without the gun there is no action. Guns do kill people and worse guns killed these babies. Those who have children must be in pain, my son is grown but I can still feel the pain of a parent.


Legacy, com has an open guest book for all to send a message of solace to these parents. Please sign this book in time each parent will come to read your message. Please also sign the petition.
 

Matt L. (23)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:18 pm
This is a horrible tragedy, what a sick psycho. Best wishes to the victims and their family.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:21 pm
Kit, if YOU won't repeat the hot links, then I will

GUN CONTROL NOW !
 
GUESTBOOK CN shooting victims
 

Arielle S. (317)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:28 pm
It has a lot to do with guns - they are too easy to get, find, buy. And CNN says there were three guns - a glock, a Bushmaster and another, I think a sig sauer. - I don't know guns but I do know that we do not need assault rifles or high powered guns in the average home. Ask the 20 dead children and see what they say...
 

Carrie B. (304)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:29 pm
Innocent children who will never be forgotten. God Bless them and all who were lost today, as well as all the suffering and grieving families.
 

lee e. (114)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:32 pm
Our country is sick! Guns are easy to get! The 2nd amendment shoulld be deleted from the Constitution! Guns should be more difficult to obtain and psychological testing should be extreme.Unless you're a membeer of a SWAT team, clips should not be available!
I'm not surprised - cynically entertained perhaps and grieved for the victims and the parents, but hey - we live by the gun here - and we die by the gun!!!!
I can only wish that the NRA headquarters are in the crosshairs of al quaeda!!
 

Cheryl O. (82)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:41 pm
Wow as new details are coming out.... there is no way any of the guns used in this shocking murder should be in the possession of anyone. It's one thing to defend gun rights, I do. But it's another to have guns such as these in this shooting. A gun to protect yourself SHOULD NOT BE machine guns and weapons clearly used in war, this in my opinion, this is where the line starts to get gray. As an American I believe in the Constitution, The Right to Bear Arms, but I Do NOT believe when this was written so long ago that The Right to Bear Arms would include weapons of mass destruction which guns like the ones used today are, no doubt. Those are NOT meant for self defense those are clearly meant for something much different, war. The scary part is the the gray area because no matter what criminals will have guns even if ours are taken away, but there has to be some kind of change to make a gun for protection your right, but because people choose to abuse their rights as well this is a mess.There is no reason you should be able to go out and buy an AK 47 or something. Like I said nobody needs these types of weapons but the military. This is a very sad day for America. Why is it so easy to make war, then to just live happy and free? I wish I knew. Hugs to all.
 

JL A. (275)
Friday December 14, 2012, 1:58 pm
Another petition option:
All of us share in President Obama's statement Friday afternoon about the tragedy in Connecticut: "Our hearts are broken today for the parents and grandparents, sisters and brothers of these little children. We have been through this too many times."

But eloquent words are not enough.

"Mr. Obama has not pushed for expanded gun control during his time in office," the New York Times just reported. "And he did not elaborate on any specific legislation he might seek in the wake of the shootings."

Please forward this email to people you know. Urge them to join with you in clicking here to urge the president and members of Congress to enact serious national gun control now.

In his solemn statement from the White House today, the president stayed away from any mention of gun control. He just said, "We’re going to have to come together to take meaningful action to prevent tragedies like this.”

Vague statements about "meaningful action" aren't good enough. Please click here and join with others around the country to demand effective gun control now.

If you share this email with your friends, you will boost our voices for bringing guns under control in this country.

-- The RootsAction.org team

P.S. Our small staff is supported by contributions from people like you; your donations are greatly appreciated.

P.P.S. RootsAction is an independent online force endorsed by Jim Hightower, Barbara Ehrenreich, Cornel West, Daniel Ellsberg, Glenn Greenwald, Naomi Klein, Bill Fletcher Jr., Laura Flanders, former U.S. Senator James Abourezk, Coleen Rowley, Frances Fox Piven, and many others
Roots Action action access at:
http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=7039
 

Ros G. (91)
Friday December 14, 2012, 2:38 pm
Thanks Kit - heart goes out to all involved- the tragic loss of innocent lives is never ending - haven't see any reports here (Australia) not that I watch them anyway - don't believe in giving myself nightmares. Australia has very strict Gun Laws - the average Australian couldn't be bothered going through all that rig-mar-roll to get a gun or rifle permit. For those that do have them - storage/security guidelines are very strict and the Police do a random check once a year on that household. That being said it doesn't mean that there aren't illegal guns on our streets - there always is and we have random shootings as well but never on this scale. It's also illegal to carry certain knives, bows and spear guns in public without proper procedures in place. We do complain that we are over-regulated in Australia but in this instance - I agree with the laws.
 

Yvonne White (231)
Friday December 14, 2012, 3:13 pm
This is Terrorism! This is WAR! This happens every day in foreign countries & too often We are the shooters & bombers.... But this is America and we can DO something about it. There is NO excuse for automatic or even semi-automatic weapons in the hands of ordinary citizens (it's bad enough Police have them) - and too many can get armor-piercing ammunition. But what really gets me is that these mass murders HAVE to have displayed SOME sort of signs of mental instability & NOBODY noticed?? Or tried to help? Or reported it to police? Sure, not all psychiatric patients are killers, but none of them should be able to get guns! There should be some kind of screening process, though.. In Illinois they only check to see if you are a felon & if you've ever been committed to a Psychiatric clinic, & they ask if you are a psychiatric patient, but do they really check? I don't know... :(
 

Jae A. (323)
Friday December 14, 2012, 3:22 pm
GUNS DO KILL PEOPLE...it just takes a nut job to aim them to achieve their 'intended goal'. . .period.

There are people on sites saying how kids..elementry age even, should now be allowed to carry guns..even to school ..for defendng themselves...Yes indeed ....the people in the U.S. have gone mad , at least when it comes to people who can think like that after such a tragidy. If these killers were only able to aquire knives I doubt they would be killing so many at one time....End automatic weapon sales NOW !
 

Thomas P. (468)
Friday December 14, 2012, 3:24 pm
Noted...thanks Kit. There are over 90 guns for every 100 people in the US. The answer is not "enforcing existing laws." We desperately need legislation to help solve crimes committed with guns. The stakes are too high to sit back and continue to do nothing, expecting the problems to resolve themselves. A nationwide ban on assault weapons and closing gun show loopholes would be a start, and we could build on that. I can't imagine feeling that guns make one safe or safer.
 

Jae A. (323)
Friday December 14, 2012, 3:35 pm
When you have politicans/public figures like $arah Palin/Rick Perry etc. constantly supporting these type of weapons..automatic as well as others it's no wonder people feel they have the right to use them for whatever purpose they have in mind..an when it is the mind of a mentally sick person..well this is what happens obviously.
End the G.D. gun crazy crap now ! Our tears aren't enough at this time. Stand up for all life/peoples right to live without guns at their every turn, not gun rights...period !
A gun inside your home...that's enough...guns outside of ones home or for any other purpose to be used outside your home..forget that crazy right now I say !
 

Jeannie Fuchs (0)
Friday December 14, 2012, 3:38 pm
What is wrong with people now day?? If someone has issues they think picking up a gun answers there problems, well it doesn't it just adds to it & gives everyone else that the gun comes in contact with problems. My heart goes out to all the family & friends that lost love ones over this.
 

Jae A. (323)
Friday December 14, 2012, 3:42 pm
Rifles are for hunting if anything [which I am against personally in this day an age so ta say'..but guns are for killing people...no other use in mind as to why they exist period !...
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 3:44 pm

We have a population of approximately 310 million people and 280 million guns are out there. Not everyone own a gun, but many own collections of guns.

Our tears are not enough, Jae. Though today the tears flow easily, as parents we each feel the pain of other parents, as citizens we feel the pain of fellow citizens but most important as human beings we all feel the pain of one other. I believe and do hope this is true, it's in our nature to empathize with each other when some thing this devastating happens. This is now a world wide story, the International press is in Connecticut, this story is being broad cast live around the world. The question that remains is will this finally bring us together to finally enforce meaningful changes in our gun culture?
 

Yvonne White (231)
Friday December 14, 2012, 3:48 pm
Cal has a later update at: http://www.care2.com/news/member/193692282/3501032
 

Cam V. (417)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:00 pm
Like it or not Jae hunting is not against the law to hunt in America and people like Palin actually EAT what they kill. Would it be something I personally would do? No but you cannot compare responsible gun owners to those who don't notice their gun has been stolen or as in this case a mother who actually owned all those dang guns herself that her own son killed her, twenty children and then six or seven adults at that school today. Why does anyone need that many guns in their home for anyway especially in the cities?

It was actually her twenty year old son who did it and he has been described as odd. Possibly suffering from Aspbergers syndrom which is a form of autism. Something set him off. Something made him turn into the most evil person we could ever think of.
 

Jae A. (323)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:14 pm
So what you are saying Cam is that Palin eats wolves ? WTF kind of crazy support statement for her is that one! Do us all a fovor on this thread at least..and shove you support for the gun toten bimbo Palin somewhere only you know where it's at currently Cam.

We need new and tough gun control laws..not support of the insanitea that promote guns/weapons for anyone wherever they want to have them. I know the Republicans want to take us back in time but the 'wild west' really doesn't seem like the kind of place most of us would choose to live so they can take that thought and shove it also..
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:21 pm

Some how I seriously doubt that Palin has eaten any of the wolves she killed. She may hunted she may even eat what she hunts, generally. That does not ring true for the majority of hunters in this country. They are trophy hunters. most take beer or other alcohol out with them and far more dangerous to each other than to any game they might hunt. Hunting - or culling some of the wild creatures could and would be far more effective if done properly by Forest Rangers, not weekend warriors.

Cam, you imply that if a person has something stolen from them, they are at fault. That's an aberration in logic, you are blaming the victim. Labeling someone with a psychological term is a indirect way of deferring their guilt, and one of many reasons that our gun laws remain lost in stagnation.
 

Val R. (242)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:28 pm
News tonight says the guns were registered to his mother - he killed it is still mu opinion- stick people in drugs that warp their min - have the CIA mind control them and bamm - another killing to take out guns away - our rights away =
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:36 pm
I have no idea whether this shooter was on any psychiatric drugs but other school shooters in the past have been, and here is what some professionals say about that:

"Some of the side-effects (of psychiatric drugs) that have become a concern lately are suicide, increased risk of suicide, increased risk of homicide... " Dr. Matt Irwin, M.D

"We really see these (psychiatric) medications as having very significant side effects..." Mike Fitzpatrick, executive director National Alliance on Mental Health (NAMI)

"What is the role of psychiatric meds, not in the role of preventing violence, but CAUSING violence? The reason I think that's a serious thing is that's what the government and the FDA tell us, based on very careful review of all these different drug studies! It's just a scientific fact basically that if you have all these depressed people, and you put half of them on placebo (sugar pill) and you put half of them on SSRI antidepressant, the people on the antidepressant are going to have a higher rate of becoming suicidal, homicidal, agitated, delirious, delusional, and violent. This is a scientific fact...it's simply the fact of the side-effects of these meds. The way I see it is that professional Psychiatry and obviously the drug companies downplay that, downplay that, downplay that" Dr. Colin A. Ross, Psychiatrist

"So here we have hostility, paranoia, agitation, combined with the akathisia, which is the sense that 'I've got to do something', and you can see how these can all add up to irrational murders. The string of school shootings that we have seen is strictly a phenomena that coincides with the massive use of antidepressant drugs over the past 15 to 20 years" Dr. Moira Dolan, M.D

.."I think we're going to see a really huge huge increase in violence and suicide and a lot of bizarre behaviors that we haven't seen, because for a very short period of time, only in the last 60 years, have we really started (psychiatric) medicating, intoxicating our brain with these incredibly toxic substances"
Dr.; Toby Watson, Clinical Psychologist

 

Gene Jacobson (252)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:37 pm
I accept an individual's right to make this choice for him or herself. My youngest son did so almost 16 years ago. It took me a LOT of years to accept that an individual has the right to make such a choice, indeed the greatest blasphemy is to interfere with or deny another's choice. We have the right to make such choices for ourselves. But I will NEVER understand this particular brand of insanity. If you want to off yourself, go ahead, make your day. But do NOT interfere with other people's right to make a different choice. Which this maniac did for as I understand it, 20 children and 6 adults. What is in our systems that causes this? I just don't understand it at all. And I mourn for all those who lost loved ones because one flipping fool decided it wasn't good enough to do himself in, he had to make the ultimate sacrifice for 26 others who DID NOT GET A VOTE. If anything is capable of being considered blasphemous, this is that. And it holds for suicide bombers and maniacs with automatic weapons. Remind me again, NRA, just why is it that anyone needs an automatic rifle? Going fire 60 rounds at a deer are you? These abominable weapons do NOT belong on the planet, but if they have to be, then confine them to ACTUAL militia, standing army's, not civilians, not ever. Not one of those children's life was worth your ridiculous support of any fool buying and using a weapon like this. Not one. I don't know how you people sleep at night. I have trouble just because of one child who took this route, how do you deal with all the blood on YOUR hands because you insist anyone anywhere should have access to weapons like this. YOU are the danger here. And your time in the sun should be over. Your organization disbanded and the lot of you slink away in shame for what you have made possible. You make me sick.
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:43 pm

It is not the many but the few that ever need psychotropic drugs and those people should be hospitalized and carefully observed. For some, not all these drugs allow people to live a relatively normal life. if they are constantly in therapy and monitored. Before the explosion of "anti-depressants" on our culture we had much fewer mass killings. These days one can get a prescription for anti-depressant much easier than almost anything thing else. That there is a connection, I would not be surprised. Of course, before the mass propaganda by the NRA fewer owned guns.
 

Robert O. (12)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:49 pm
Such a terribly heartbreaking and tragic event to happen any time but especially right before the holidays. This is yet another in a long line of gun related incidents that make the case for gun control legislation. Yes I know people do have the right to bear arms, but like any right it should be used responsibly and when it comes to firearms there are some people that shouldn't even be allowed to be near them much less possess them. The right to bear arms was made during the times when people had homesteads to protect so it's not so relevant today as it was when the amendment was first created. Yeah, yeah I know, people do have a right to protect themselves and own a firearm if they wish, but they certainly don't need military style high powered, semi-automatic rifles complete with bells and whistles. Nobody even needs such a thing to go hunting (which I'm dead against). It makes society much less safe when Mr. Joe Blow in the first row can walk down the street with an assault rifle and do whatever he wants. We've already had too many shootings and problems with gun violence in this country and it's only going to get worse if we just turn a blind eye to this issue and pretend nothing's wrong when clearly everything is wrong!
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:51 pm

I agree Gene, should a person make the personal choice for suicide, not much is going to interfere with that, but we have inadvertently glamorized these mass killings through the media. Those who are unstable and see some fifteen minutes of fame or desire for revenge in a mass killing are reinforced by media coverage. The NRA has pushed their lobby agenda into the spot light of American dialogue with constant use of lies, distortions, and propaganda.

"When seeking revenge, remember to dig two graves - Confucius~
 

Ros G. (91)
Friday December 14, 2012, 4:58 pm
I can only talk about Australia here - Under our regulations - the person who has a permit for a rifle/gun that falls into the hands of a third party be it stolen or another member of the family is also under investigation. The rifle/guns need to be locked in a custom built security cupboard (disembled) - the bullets need to be locked in a separate location (another room). If any breeches come to light during the investigation then the owner of the gun is also charged. Irrespective of who they are or what they suffer from they have a Duty of Care towards their fellow humans beings - any thing less is just neglect or indifference.
 

Cheryl O. (82)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:00 pm
The guns used in this crime were made for exactly what they were used for, killing many people quickly. That's not what the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS is about. Most would agree that people who have these types of guns are abusing their right.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:01 pm
Piers Morgan



@piersmorgan

No more weasly words of 'comfort' Mr President. This is the latest, and worst, gun outrage on your watch. Time to act. #GunControl

BRAVO Piers!
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:03 pm

***NOTE *** The comment from Bergmani B is SPAM - FLAG away!
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:09 pm

Obama is not responsible for this shooting nor is he responsible for the lack of good gun laws in this country. Turn to the only place that can be held fully responsible, The United States Congress (both Houses) they make the laws, and the Attorney General can and must enforce those laws. We have allowed this run away train of individual state laws to over take the Federal laws on gun control - many created since Obama was elected, feed that fear factor of the black man in the White House.
 

Roseann D. (178)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:13 pm
Sorry Angelika, I agree with Kit. Gun lobbyists influence on Congress over the last decade makes it easier for this crap to happen.
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:33 pm

To be precise the NRA has bought and owns many in the Congress and they do make the laws. Obama can try to pass new legislation but it will not make through the House. The Goats of Past are firmly held in debt to the NRA. Slowly with each tragedy people are more aware of the long term implications of these poor laws and slowly it may change but not because we feel badly tonight. The press will move on to another story and this will quickly be brushed aside, the NRA will use a more acceptable front for a while. Then return to business as usual, which is an ongoing campaign of fear-mongering and propaganda.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:36 pm
You are both right there, Kit and Roseann. But I suppose that the NYT as well as the petition authors at DIA (which address the president AND congress) had their reasons to call on Obama and I guess so did Piers.(he resortet to the pres. as you cannot possibly tweet the whole Congress)
Nobody suggested that Obama was responsible for the shooting.
 

Linda Rust (66)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:43 pm
Hi Kit, Just wanted to let everyone know that Avaaz.org has started a petition asking President Obama to start a serious conversation on gun control now. This is not " politicizing" the event, this is a way to use our feelings of grief and horror as a catalyst to finally create some much needed changes in our gun laws. I hope everyone will go to their site and sign the petition, and pass it along to friends. Let's raise such an outcry that the politicians in Washington can no longer ignore our outrage on this issue! Thanks
http://www.care2.com/news/member/253074930/3501074
 

Jelica R. (157)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:44 pm
From MomsRising.org:

We are beyond heartbroken as we think of the kindergarteners and others that died today in Connecticut. Today is the 3rd day this week when there's been a mass shooting in our nation.

We are parents. Many NRA members are parents. And none of us want to live in a nation where children are gunned down. Today is the day for the NRA and for Congress to step up and start proposing laws that protect children and all people.

*Sign on to our open letter to the National Rifle Association (NRA) and to Congress urging them to make today the last day that they block common-sense gun regulations that protect all of our families:

Today Is the Day for Common Sense Gun Regulations
 

Nimue P. (243)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:44 pm
Something has to be done about the gun laws. We have very strict gun laws in Australia. Sadly noted.
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:49 pm

Linda would you please share the link for the Avaaz petition?
 

Ros G. (91)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:55 pm
Kit you are so right in your assessment. I can only remember two massacres of this type happening in Australia in my lifetime and the laws did change. The Government that changed the Legislation was actually the one that favoured gun ownership the most. After the Port Arthur massacre they did a full face - had a gun buy back scheme and changed the Laws without taking it to the people. Does this mean they value innocent human life more than your Politicians, or is it that they just didn't want that kind of blood on their already stained hands.
 

Jelica R. (157)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:58 pm
Other petitions:

Enough vagueness. We want gun control.

President Obama: We Need to Talk About Gun Control, TODAY

President Obama: Time to Talk About Gun Control
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 5:58 pm

Jelica - signed the MomsRising petition.
 

l L. (1)
Friday December 14, 2012, 6:00 pm
Thank you kit for the article.. May the children rest in peace and my condolences in respect to all affected.
In my area of the nation, I have heard conflicting news reports. Some they had to back track and correct. I say wait till they sort it out. Right now from my information, too much misinformation and redflags. One the mother was killed in the classroom. The gunman shot his mother in the face at home and the 2 guns were registered to her. He shot the mother first and went to the school and did what he did..
He wore a mask, he didn't wear a mask.. They buzzed him in and if so he had a mask on?
They thought he was his brother but the brother says his younger brother has "his " license on him , thats why they thought it was Ryan and not an Adam...
Amidst all of that the psychologists are giving their diagnosis of a suspect before they know who it is and anything about him
Another thing his mother is first a teacher then no, she is a teachers aid.
I wish they would just wait till they get the information right.
My opinion... I doubt anyone is giving up guns in this couintry. In Connecticut alone; I remember, then V.P Chaney visiting Connecticut and those groups of there and their guns. They are not giving up those guns.
I don't care what happens. My opinion.. I may be wrong.. Just in the conversation.. making observations..The example set here in America is... this is how we solve our problems from the top throughout. Let's face it.
This is the example we set as pillars of our society. It sounds harsh.. Some of us are peaceful and just want to get along. We are not all like that.
So much is going on... Who knows what is really...all.. happening... BTW Kit who is the 29th person?. I hadn't heard.
I do care about what has happened. It is hurtful and with children it is more than hurtful.
What is coming next? I am holding my breath.
 

l L. (1)
Friday December 14, 2012, 6:06 pm
To clear up what I wrote, that may not be clear. What I meant is that.. I don't care what happens, no one is giving up any guns. Watch and see.
 

Linda Rust (66)
Friday December 14, 2012, 6:06 pm
Kit, Sorry I can't find the direct link to the Avaarz petition at the moment. However, I did post it on the Care2 News Network under the title "The Time for Gun Control Is Now", which can be entered in the search bar. There is a direct link with the article which will take you to the website. Sorry for the confusion.
 

Ros G. (91)
Friday December 14, 2012, 6:07 pm
Jelica, sorry - couldn't sign Moms Rising Petition - America only
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 6:07 pm
 
AVAAZ PETITION:
 
President Obama: Time to Talk About Gun Control
 
 
 

Kathy B. (98)
Friday December 14, 2012, 6:42 pm
Meanwhile in Michigan:

The most sweeping rewrite of Michigan’s concealed handgun law in more than a decade includes details that go well beyond opening so-called “gun free zones” to hidden weapons.

The state House on Thursday passed the bill 68-41 and sent it to Gov. Rick Snyder, one of many laws sped through a lame-duck session that did not conclude until early Friday morning.

 

Jelica R. (157)
Friday December 14, 2012, 6:55 pm
I can not believe that, while facing such huge tragedy, some of comments here defend the right to gun. What is wrong with you people? Can't you see the flaw here: you claim that you have guns to defend yourself and your family. If so, where were you when those kids were massacred? Your right-to-gun didn't protect them, on the contrary, it put 700+ kids in the danger, in which some of them lost their lives. I didn't see any citizens picking their guns and rushing to the school to save those poor babies. No, law-obedient, to-the-teeth armed neighbours sat and waited for the police. And some of you still defend NRA. F*cking unbelievable.

My second point: to have a gun and know how to use it, and to be able to use it effectively are completely separate things. Be honest and admit that under stress, any untrained person will make a mistake and probably cause more damage than s/he was trying to prevent. Ask any policeman or soldier, if you won't have my word for it.

IMO, weapons should be limited to well trained persons with very high level of self-control. You know, the ones who can asses the situation and evaluate if use of weapons is needed at all, or there are other means available to solve the problem. Anybody else is a danger for society.

Chekhov, a Russian dramatist, wrote that "if one shows a loaded gun on stage in the first act of a play, it should be fired in a later act; otherwise, the gun should not be shown in the first place". This is how people perceive guns; if it's there, it is there to be used. Therefore, sooner or latter, it will be used.
 

Dandelion G. (387)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:08 pm
What happened to my comment? Will do again, with tears.

My heart is hurting too much right now. I saw this on the TV while at the laundromat. Please sign petition and pass it around, there are 57 who noted yet only 36 signatures?

I also signed the other petitions listed within the threads.

Will be a hard sleep tonight thinking of those families who lost such precious little children and the adults who all they were doing was trying to give these little ones an education. Their families will be suffering greatly tonight and for a long time to come from this senseless loss. I also feel badly for the shooters family, they also suffer knowing it was one of theirs who did such a horrible act, and they also lost their loved ones as well.
 

Susanne R. (249)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:08 pm
We have to do something! The laws are too lax --where they exist at all-- and they're not well enforced! The gun lobby is too powerful and they lobbyists have too many politicians in their back pockets. It's time for parents and grandparents to put their foot down!

All petitions signed. Thanks for posting this and creating this much-needed discussion, Kit. My heart is broken, and I'm really, really concerned over this issue. If anyone has any ideas, please share.
 

Jae A. (323)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:18 pm
When I said I can deal with people having 'a gun' at home...I mean a low caliber hand gun that can not fire more than a half dozen rounds without reloading. We have to start somewhere and the gun freaks aren't going to give up on 'their 'right' to own rifles/guns period but to limit the type..and how many... well that not only makes sense but it is possible to get passed into law .
When the 'founding fathers' came up with the right to bear arms they were thinking 'muskets' for starters. One shot and then reload. Not an asault rifle or automatic hand gun that uses 'clips' for rapid /multiple rounds firing capabilities etc. So let everyone own a musket I say if that's their reason [2nd Adm.] for saying we have the right to have them..or get a grip..some common sense...and basis logic about this and at least limit the 'types' and 'rounds' a firing weapon requires that one can purchase.....starting with a law making the sale and or possesion of an automatic guns/rifles illegal period within our borders period ... a.s.a.p. !
 

Debra B. (24)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:19 pm
Absolutely horrible! My heart breaks for all tge families
 

JL A. (275)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:20 pm
Susanne, in response to your question (in addition to the petitions) there is a group that has initiated people to hold vigils in parks or other public places that wouldn't require formal permits, etc.--it is a nationwide effort--first page of my search brought up East Cleveland, OH and Walnut Creek, CA in addition to CT...
 

Jelica R. (157)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:23 pm
Another e-mail:

"My heart aches for the families of Newtown, Connecticut.

We need to reach out to the loved ones of those who were murdered and to the community that has been shattered. We need to let them know that they are in our thoughts and our prayers, and that we are ready to do what it takes to make sure a tragedy like this never happens again.

Share your personal message of condolence with the families of Newtown, Connecticut.

I've heard a lot of promises from politicians since my daughter was murdered in Tucson, Arizona, including from President Obama. But I am still waiting for them to act.

And I'm not alone in my frustration. As horrible as it sounds, mass shootings have become common in our country, and 34 Americans are murdered with guns every single day. That means 48,000 people will be murdered with guns in the president's next term. Yet our broken laws remain broken, and our leaders have yet to step forward with a plan to end gun violence.

We need to make sure today's terrible tragedy is the last of its kind. We need to make a promise to ourselves and demand action from our leaders.

Please join me in sharing your feelings -- and your promise -- with those who have lost so much:

Stand with families of the Newtown school shooting

Thank you for your support,

Roxanna Green, Mayors Against Illegal Guns"
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:25 pm

Sign the petitions. Call and write to your Senators and Congressional representatives - don't let up on the pressure. Keep calling and writing. Go after state level government as well, while some states have some good laws for gun control many others do not. It should be a single Federal law that supersedes all state laws. Many are confused or believe the years of malignant propaganda surrounding the gun issue. This is a question of personal security not one of "taking away guns". No one should fear sending their child to school, going to a mall, watching a movie, buying gas for their car and yet, we have had all these situations because of no enforcement of solid laws to protect the public.

The NRA may not like the information from the newest study that shows 71% of their membership is fully in support of blocking the purchase of military grade weapons to the general public, of stopping the purchase of guns by those convicted of violent crimes, those who are on the terrorist watch list (In many states who would know?), and those with a history of mental illness. That in no way infringes on the second amendment rights to own a gun for protection at home or in owing a hunting rifle.
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:28 pm

And...MoveOn is holding a candle vigil. I prefer to after the source of the problem. That is those who are beholden to the NRA and hold elected office. YOU can have a meaningful affect on this.
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:31 pm

I am a member of the group Mayors Against Illegal Guns - join these groups and take action on petitions and by direct contact with city, (local) state and Federal government.
 

Jelica R. (157)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:31 pm
Statements of Mayors Against Illegal Guns Co-Chairs on Newtown, Connecticut Shooting; Dec 14, 2012

Petition; Demand a Plan
 

JL A. (275)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:31 pm
NRA political decisions have been made by the manufacturers not the members in recent years...that's where the disconnect comes from...NRA positions seem to be more about profit and sales more than about rights...
 

Brad Miller (120)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:44 pm
TWEET this if you feel moved to, like it will make a goddamn difference - Tell @BarackObama that you #DemandAPlan to end gun violence in America: http://www.demandaplan.org
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:51 pm
why not just press congress and the president to reinstate the federal assault weapons ban that was there before, then allowed to expire under GWB .
 

cecily w. (0)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:52 pm
The latest news reports state that two of the guns used, and the rifle that was possibly used, were registered to the shooter's mother. Whether or not this information is correct, there needs to be strong, adequately enforced, gun control legislation on the federal level.

It would also be helpful if state departments of conservation would stop glorifying hunters. Some of these departments also praise children for their hunting prowess.
 

Gysele van Santen (213)
Friday December 14, 2012, 7:53 pm
i heard this tragic news on the radio in my car this morning & i had to pull over. i was shaking so badly & felt like i was drowning in a wave of sadness combined with hate-filled anger toward the coward who massacred those innocent babies & adults. i really don't know what to say or who to blame at this point; tragedies like this have happened before & sad to say, will happen again as long as mentally unstable individuals are able to get their hands on firearms. i'm so sad for the the victims' families.

i have 3 nieces & nephews ages 3-7 & i can't even begin to imagine the pain of something like this happening to them. but it can, it can happen to anyone, bullets don't discriminate.
i'm signing all petitions, thnx.
 

JL A. (275)
Friday December 14, 2012, 8:18 pm
One more petition notice from email:

http://signon.org/sign/newtown-today-we-tell?mailing_id=7606&source=s.icn.em.cr&%3Br_by=809438&r_by=491007
 

Yvonne White (231)
Friday December 14, 2012, 8:23 pm
Signing every petition!
 

JL A. (275)
Friday December 14, 2012, 8:36 pm
http://signon.org/sign/newtown-today-we-tell

works, too
 

Leia P. (7)
Friday December 14, 2012, 8:58 pm
21 children and 8 adults. how sad
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday December 14, 2012, 9:04 pm

Already have tweeted this but not just to Obama - I tweeted to every member of Congress that I have information about their account. This is also on Facebook and I have called the offices of about 2 dozen members of Congress today. Monday I will call more and write more letters. I must feel that I am doing something positive to help this Gun Culture change direction.
 

l L. (1)
Friday December 14, 2012, 9:09 pm
I believe they are not giving up their guns. I don't care what happens. I watched and listened to attitudes for years and where we are now in America is the wrong attitude about the value of human life.
Another thing; most of us are scared of each other, don't trust the government whether republican successionistt or downsided out of livelihoods by bullying and schemes. We trust lawenforcement, we don't trust law enforcement , we don't know who is going to kill us, rob us, rape us, etc.
Our country is in a dilemna.
How much value do we put on life and quality of living? What do we teach and what do we give example to?
We have those who know they are lying and pit us against each other with a lie(s).
The perp; left alot of questions unanswered at this point. But I noticed certain ones make it their business to give full analyses about mental illness.
I bet those who have autism kids are shaking in their boots right now, that a broad brush will be cast to label their kids as mentally dangerous. I say what ever you do.. Do it with intelligence and take everything into consideration, to come to a decent outcomes. Cause what is worst is to hastily do the wrng thing and then come back later and complain cause the conclusion, you came to bit you and you didn't foresee it.
Militias are everywhere. I came to my conclusion that Connecticut is not giving up any guns. I based that on The then V.P chaney's visit there and who he visited. There's news media clips about that then, there.
I don't know these people, just what I read and folllow in the news and how people present themselves.
You know there was talk of succession and a civil war in America and all these newly formed gun laws. Look at Florida. Look at the attitutes about the worth of human life. I say this because the attitudes about assault weapons. Another thing even if a person knows how to lock and load and shoot correctly like soldiers and lawenforcement there is no guarantee about anyones mental state at anytime.
It starts with the attitude, then behaviors and the bragging rights. It also says how we treat each other, see each other and what programs us to be who we are.
About mental health; my crow is human science, doesn't know enough on the subject, to cure anything.
What I come to find out is that alot of these labeled mental illnesses were created from our government's experimenting on America and the world at the end of WW2. They are not going to talk about it or come clean. You only find this out from goverment reports. Alot of people think over the years that it is their fault. The scitso..etc and bi-bolar and mutiple personalities, you name it, they are government initiated and kept going experiments. They/ mental health can readily say it's such and such, but they don't know how to correct their mistakes of allowing tampering.. And all things are not equal. If you hold yourself in high self esteem you are narcissitic. If low self esteem something else. Labels, Lables everywhere.

How can the hearts of people be changed in America? Our latest crisis is heartbreaking indeed and with that it is much deeper than that.
I stand with our nation in our time of bereavement.
These are hard times.. I don't know what is coming next.
 

Roxy H. (340)
Friday December 14, 2012, 9:22 pm
I had this Written on one of my Blogs today ... I thought it was pretty good... rali74

December 14, 2012 at 4:03 pm


How many more mass shootings are we going to have before people finally tell the NRA to piss off? As a former soldier and someone who worked in the law enforcement field I can tell you that there is ZERO need for a civilian to have access to rapid fire, high capacity assault weapons. What more is it going to take for that disgusting group to be disavowed by law abiding Americans? As far as I am concerned they have about as much standing as the Taliban in my eyes.
 

James Maynard (68)
Friday December 14, 2012, 9:31 pm
What if we simply label the NRA a terrorist
organization. Then can we make it stop.
 

Lynn Squance (232)
Friday December 14, 2012, 9:39 pm
I just read of this shooting in Huff Post — 28 dead, mostly elementary school children. There are a lot of people saying it is time for a discussion about gun control and the second amendment. Of course it is, long time past due. But first, it is time to mourn the loss of innocence, the innocent children who were murdered, the adults who were murdered, the families that have been pulled apart by this tragedy, and there will be some who may never really heal. We need to take time to mourn (I am not talking months but a few weeks at this difficult time of year), and to gather our thoughts. Then it will be time to go full steam ahead.

It is past time to remove the NRA from politics. Of course the NRA rates lawmakers and too many lawmakers bow and scrape to the NRA because of the money flow.

It is past time to review the 2nd amendment, an amendment that was written in a totally different era with totally different circumstances and needs.

It is past time to review gun control.

How many innocent lives will it take until the American people understand that there are nutcases out there ready to use a gun or guns for their own demented purposes?

Petition signed.
 

Michael Carney (209)
Friday December 14, 2012, 10:07 pm
Noted, and all petitions signed...I'm sure the NRA, and their supporters are already trotting out the same on arguments, that guns don't kill, people do, and hiding behind the tired argument of their 2nd Amendment rights...
 

Past Member (0)
Friday December 14, 2012, 10:13 pm
Ban guns
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 10:22 pm

These types of weapons, and calibre of bullets, are used for only ONE purpose:

Killing other humans.

Yes, defense of self and family is necessary, and people should be entitled to a weapon strong enough to stop an intruder . . .

BUT we rarely see that as the case. Instead they are used as a means to "lethalize," with maximumimpact and malice, gathered groups of unsuspecting victims.

In this case, CHILDREN from 5-10 years of age.

This, and the whole militarized values of "might equals right" need to stop.

 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 10:32 pm

When will Americans understand that, when we condone murder of those we've deemed as "enemies," we are committing MURDER (plain and simple).

There is no trial, nor jury, and yet (by decree of an authoritative figure, it is "permissible."

Can we wonder why, knowing this, others decide -- by the example of those who govern -- that this is acceptable by engaging in perpetual war?

No, it's not guns that kill. They are merely the weapons used to accomplish the end result.

When the 2nd Amendment was adopted, people used muskets -- a complicated and timely instrument of death. And, to those who pointed out that the founding fathers never knew that assault weapon were in the future . . . I agree.

THAT is exactly why the founding fathers, knowing that times would change, had the foresight to add that amendments were necessary, considering the circumstances.

 

Ros G. (91)
Friday December 14, 2012, 10:35 pm
Kit B: A bucket full of Green Stars for being so active. Michael C unfortunately the arguement "that guns don't kill, people do" is correct - they can only restrict what type of gun is allowed, under what circumstances, and it is used and stored. Apart from Professionals who are required to carry a gun for their employment - the rest carry a gun by choice. People choose to arm themselves or not - why does one find a need and the other doesn't?
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 10:37 pm

It is WAY past time that a government of conscience both exist and demand that KILLING IS UNACCEPTABLE . . . instead of acting otherwise.

How many children have your country condoned to be murdered (and their deaths be ignored as "collateral damage?"

As long as we perpetuate violence, and praise "victories," based on numbers of lives taken, we have established a mindset for our citizens.

 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 10:45 pm

The hypocrisy is galling!

While we mourn (as we very well should) the loss of these so . . . SO . . . innocent lives, we need to understand that, as tragic as this is, our own government is carrying out this same type of tragedy daily -- and by conscienceless drones -- wherever we visit their countries under the guise of "assisting" comrades.

Heads of states should be examples of diplomacy . . . not technical warfare mavericks, without concern for the innocents.


 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 10:55 pm

It's beyond level-headed comprehension to think that a country that "recruits" children in high school to join the military, in order to be instruments of destruction upon others, is confounded that so many youths (who've seen nothing but perpetual war) react with violence.

Let the mainstream media tell you that "He was acting out because his mother cared more for her students than him," (or whatever reasoning they choose to place blame on the shooter).

He was a product of the society in which he was raised.

Fact is . . . this very government established the platform condoning killing whenever a conflict arose.

Not pretty, but true.

 

Just Carole (338)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:03 pm

(Rant over . . . stepping down from soapbox.)

 

Kathy Chadwell (367)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:13 pm
My sorrow and sick feelings are now replaced with great anger. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS.
All petitions already signed.
 

Nimue P. (243)
Friday December 14, 2012, 11:13 pm
Petitions signed, thank you.
 

Ros G. (91)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 12:07 am
Bucketful of Green Stars to you Carole ....You're not ranting....it's well thought out and true..You're just not feeling emotional ...even though you have every right to do so.
 

Mariette G. (150)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 2:03 am
This horrible news was front page news today, here in South Africa. This is really scary! My heart goes out to everyone involved - this is so sad and heartbreaking! Thanks for sharing Kit!
 

Cam V. (417)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 2:37 am
First of all Je Palin never hunted wolves. Ever. Nor did she direct anyone in her administration to kill wolves. It was an edict that was brought into Alaska by a DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR in the late 1990's and blamed on Palin. Some think repeating a lie often enough will make it true when in fact it is still a lie.

Secondly what the hail does she have to do with any of this? I have never heard her come out in support of people being allowed to own weapons that are military standard. EVER so that is another lie.

I thought this thread was about the tragic death of innocent children and adults. A mass murder and have no idea why Palin OR Santorum were brought into this. There are many DEMOCRATS who support gun ownership.

The point I was making about the owner of that rifle Kit is with gun ownership comes the responsibility of keeping your weapons away from people. My brother is a hunter and has several rifles that are locked up and then locked up again. Anyone nosing around his house would never be able to get their hands on his guns because he takes great care to make sure they are not accessible to anyone but him. Not blaming the owner at all but it was pretty obvious his weapon was not very secure if that there kid got hold of it.

Then there is this nut bar today. It has been reported all those guns were his mothers. Military grade weapons should never be made available to the public to buy. What could you possibly need them for? There is the right to bear arms if that is what you are in to but there should be limits on what Americans can get. Here in Canada all our guns that show up like that come mostly from America. Easy to buy. Too dang easy it seems.

I applaud you all for gathering around a cause that can be something to bring you all together as tragic as it is. For too long now I have seen Americans pitted against each other and a nation so divided is never a healty society for anyone. Use this as a time to come together Jae and quit with the divisive talk already.
 

Karen R. (87)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 3:27 am
Who needs those kind of guns??!! unless you are in a war zone! this needs to stop! ...grieving for these poor families
 

Tanya W. (50)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:38 am
If nobody had guns then people would have time to cool off before they reacted. Some abysmal acts are so premeditated that it would be hard to prevent them. Those who kill should take themselves out first so to spare the blood shed and lives lost!!! America needs to make guns less accesible to prevent future tragedies. May all those involved find peace and closure, I am sorry for your loss.
 

Jennifer C. (172)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:52 am
Thanks.
 

Nyack Clancy (435)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 5:43 am
@ Cam
"Like it or not Jae hunting is not against the law to hunt in America and people like Palin actually EAT what they kill.'

That is only a HALF truth, Cam, Palin also began to shoot wolves for sport and fun, while she was still the Governor of Alaska, and wolves were still Federally protected under the United States Endangered Species. Not only did she allow them murdered, but paid a bounty to hunters that delivered to her wolf paws. I DOUBT VERY MUCH SARAH PALIN ATE WOLF PAWS.
 

Nyack Clancy (435)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 5:53 am
Sarah Palin is a sick, and dangerous women to have ever placed a human being in the rifle cross-hair as a target- aka- Gabrielle Gifford

But DO NOT FORGET- before she moved on to taking aim at at a Democratic member of the House of Representatives, she had a little target practice with wolves.

" Defenders of Wildlife, the Alaska Wildlife Alliance and the Alaska Chapter of the Sierra Club asked the Alaska Superior Court to shut down Governor Palin's $150-per-wolf bounty program citing the fact that Alaska's bounty laws were repealed in 1984 and the State has no current legal authority to implement the bounties.

"The Governor is overstepping her legal authority by offering cash payments for each wolf killed by aerial gunners," stated Tom Banks, Defenders of Wildlife's Alaska Associate. "That's a bounty by anyone's standards regardless of what they call it."

http://www.defenders.org/press-release/defenders-wildlife-asks-judge-shut-down-palins-wolf-bounty-program
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 5:54 am

Thank you, Ros.

From the time I can remember, I've known countless victims of damage from wars. (I'm Native American (nuff said there); my father was in the Navy at Pearl Harbor; I lost many classmates from Vietnam; and this generation mourns classmates and friends lost in Iraq, Afghanistan . . . and (the next one).

Male children were given toy soldiers to play with; and then, (in condescension to feminist thinking, that girls have dolls and even males should bond to their children) G.I. Joe. And then, like a cruel joke, Dapper Dan.

Wars are recorded in Biblical times (before the advent of guns). So, clearly, instead of learning to stifle angry reactions, we have chosen to perfect the art of killing.

And, in a corporate grab to capitalize on that brainwashing, we've made those sophisticated weapons available to citizens and then decry them being used for their only intention (as if it's acceptable for someone wearing a uniform to murder, but not for civilians).

 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 6:12 am

This country (and many following our example) has glorified murder.

In fact, we smirk at the fact that we have more weapons than any other contender . . . all at the expense of our poorest citizens (whose children join the military because they cannot get a job). And once the military has taken every ounce of humanity from our youngest and finest . . . they are discarded, with warped minds, bodies and souls.

And their replacements are recruited.

 

rosemary weston (1)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 8:48 am
kenneth, interesting point about the prescribed medications. i stopped taking asmtha medication when i i read that it might cause a severe, fatal asthma attack. many things can cause an imbalance in the brain including legal and illegal drugs and certain illnesses, hormonal imbalances that can magnify or alter our perception. i chose not to take medication years ago when i was treated for depression, but at present some mental conditions can only be successfully treated with medications and i agree those patients need to be closely monitored. also it is very easy to be in denial or not see the possible significance of ones own behavior or that of someone close to you. we really need to be in better touch with each other.

guns? they terrify me! i wish we could get rid of them all and every other way of destroying each other. BUT, they are here and it probably is easier psychologically to shoot or blow up someone than to stab, suffocate, bludgeon, etc. anyone and it certainly would limit the number of victims without becoming a serial killer. if we can't get rid of them, yes, they should be harder to get and use. there shouldn't be so many manufactured and there is no need to have guns available that are so lethal and can kill so many. anyone who is allowed legal use of a gun should be limited and they need to be very well trained and have a mental evaluation periodically and they should be held responsible for keeping their weapon away from others...no concealed weapons... not the perfect solution.AND higher security in schools and possibly drills periodically. it is sad, but this is the world we live in.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 9:03 am

Why not re-think this all?

Instead of devoting the majority of the U.S. budget toward so-called "defense," why not take those TRILLIONS of dollars and devote them to providing jobs toward repairing the infrastructure, making sure that every citizen has health care; demanding that the organizations in place to monitor drugs, arms, food safety, etc. actually respond to scientific discovery . . . instead of amplifying surveillance?

Sounds more like a world I'd like to see children raised in.



 

John C. (81)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 9:27 am
I think everyone is in shock at the enormity of what happened. Though the numbers of children killed in a place that parents thought safe is high, the numbers of murders in the united states are higher. Some 15,000 every year.
Were strict gun controls imposed the violence would not stop. The issue is more rooted in the emotional immaturity of the population. Until that is addressed there will be neither peace or safety for anyone much less respect. When the 5 permanent members of the U.N.'s security counsel are also the largest arms dealers in the world gun control will be difficult for them to impose without signaling that they fear their own populations more than anyone else.
The US has more combat veterans than some countries have population. No amount of legislation can disarm them. The most dangerous weapon is the one that takes up space between one's ears. It is also the source of peace and goodwill, love of family, friends, and country. One cannot be removed without damaging the other. The U.K has some of the tightest control laws in the world. Then again they had to go through the struggle with Northern Ireland.
As long as one segment of society is cultivated to view other segments with suspicion, mistrust and fear there will be no peace.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 9:36 am

Well stated, John.

 

Dandelion G. (387)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 10:27 am
Carole you go right ahead and rant my dear......you speak great truth.

As the saying goes, one reaps what they sow. Violence begets violence.

This is a violent society, going back from the first boats that arrived here. The Indians fed and they were rewarded with violence. We keep a major War Machine going, year after year, as soon as one conflict is over we seem to be in another right quick. No end in sight, no talk of having a Peace Economy, in fact cut the budget for the one place we do discuss Peace; the United States Institute of Peace.

I could not find the words yesterday, looking at my own 5 year old granddaughter who lives with me and is herself a kidnergarten student: to think of her having been lost to me in such a way or to have her little life traumatized for having lived through the experience just tore my heart to pieces.

In this society we all have a target on our backs, no one, not even the little innocent ones are spared in this savage society. Individually we may be a kind person, not prone to violence, but as a society we are. Studies show that as individuals they would not do certain things but as a group they do. As a group called the United States, we are a violent society and we project that violence in our neighborhoods and across the globe, the old might makes right.

Certainly we must look at the guns and how we deal with those guns, what type of guns should be on the open market if any at all. Few people actually hunt for their food today, a few qualified hunters, with limited license to be issued and along with the the allowence to have the gun to hunt for their food.

This does not include trophy hunters, which should be stopped, I'm talking about those who actually need to survive on the hunted food. And remember people, you are what you eat, these Factory Farms that torture the animals before they end up as food on your table, that pain and suffering those animals suffered goes into their meat and is absorbed into our children and our own bodies which affects our very "being"...and we wonder why so many are people are sick, angry, confused?

We put toxins in our air, water, and soil our food grows into, you don't think that this isn't coming back in the form of messed up thinking? Guns don't protect you from that, but people who are subjected to chemical imbalance, in additon to the over exposure of violence in this society, and have guns at the ready by our gun crazed society, it is a mixture of deadly proportions we see playing out now all too often. Also how about Universal Health Care so that people who are having issues can get the needed help and counseling. All too often people don't get the help as it is limited coverage for mental health issues on their health care policy IF they even have health insurance at all.

I am tired of Florida's Stand Your Ground ruling, most don't care to understand what that means, people make it up as they go determining what in their mind is standing their ground and too many people are being shot. Perhaps a person feels standing their ground is fighting over the parking space they felt they deserve, or protecting their ears from a type of music they don't like so shot into a car of young people when they didn't turn the music down, killing a young man.

I personally like the way some other Countries do things, their police do not even carry guns, and only call in the Swat team as needed. Case by case. That way we don't get so many citizens shot by the police who have had a tendency to shoot first ask questions later.

And for those who think by having guns they will prevent a Government take over, you are in dream land. If our Govt wants YOU, it will get you. Our Govt. has Nukes, you gonna stand up with a gun, even an automatic machine gun against a bunker buster or other such thing. Get real. I'm more worried on what is being legislated to prevent the need to get to any such place, how about paying attention! There is more being taken over by the pen than by gun.

Same with the Survivalist, spend more time preventing a need to have all the stuff you are spending big money on and stop being so darn selfish. Do you really want to live in a world with millions starving and thousands beating on your door trying to get the food you have stored? Wouldn't it be better to spend your time trying to change policies that are destroying our planet so that many families can live. They love their children too, those who live in the city and can't build underground bunkers.

All these guns and weapons you are stock piling, you really want to shoot a throng of men, women and children with your wife beside you and your children sceaming in the background? Is it the only vision you can come up with for a life? My goodness, all that time and energy living in fear and doing nothing to actually change what you are so worried upon. All you are doing is giving money to others who are feeding off of this fear, keeping those in money who make the "stuff", more stuff that requires more oil to make, that pollutes the air we breath. Your fear is contributing to the mess, and your fear prevents you from being pro-active in preventing your fear from happening.

Jelica also made a very wise observation when she said:
"can not believe that, while facing such huge tragedy, some of comments here defend the right to gun. What is wrong with you people?
Can't you see the flaw here: you claim that you have guns to defend yourself and your family.
If so, where were you when those kids were massacred? Your right-to-gun didn't protect them, on the contrary, it put 700+ kids in the danger, in which some of them lost their lives.
I didn't see any citizens picking their guns and rushing to the school to save those poor babies. No, law-obedient, to-the-teeth armed neighbours sat and waited for the police."

Yes, the issue of guns needs to be looked at but we have a much deeper rooted situation in this Country that we all need to address and that is what Vision are we wanting for our Country. This requires changes in many ways of our living and thinking, not just with guns.

 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 10:30 am

Bless your incisive heart, Sheryl.

 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 11:33 am

ANY life taken, by anything other than "natural cause," is a stain upon the totality of our humanity.

 

Michela m. (3924)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 11:44 am
Terrible!!!!!!!!!!
 

Cam V. (417)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 1:47 pm
No Nyack she did not. Not one damn wolf was killed by anyone in her administration prior to her run for VP. Write the conservatiion office in Alaska like I did and LEARN the truth.

Here's the thing, as soon as you bring politics into what should dang well be a common sense issue in America the rock throwing stops. BOTH sides supported the right to bear arms and BOTH sides have had opportunity after opportunity to ban military grade weapons being sold to the public. AS THE PUBLIC leave the politicians OUT OF THIS MIX and maybe, just maybe you will be able to get control and CHANGE the laws in your country.

Screening people for mental illness etc. etc. will not keep these guns out of the hands of evil or mentally ill people. WTH do they need them for? No ONE person in the public should ever be able to legally out gun our police. Period.
 

Ros G. (91)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 1:53 pm
Karen R... People must feel that they are living in a War Zone to purchase these types of weapons in the first place. It's a them against us culture that has spread the world. Society has allowed its self to be DUMB DOWN over the Generations. Fear and hatred of something different is the driving force. I don't live in America - but I did see some of Your President's speech, an emotional President with true human feelings - unfortunately the American commentator afterwards said "that he personally feels that very little will happen to correct this imbalance of guns per population" Sad but probably true - so we may see this happening again, and again. People may want change but they don't know how to change..As one of our Comedians here in Australia says - "Society is to blame"
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 3:11 pm

A Culture That Condones The Killing Of Children And Teaches Children To Killby Lucinda MarshallThe Sandy Hook massacre isn’t just about the need for gun control laws, it is about a culture that condones the killing of children and teaches children that killing is okay.It is about a country addicted to violence on television and movie screens.It is about cuts in education spending.It is about giving the military free access to our schools where they regale our children with romanticized delusions of military righteousness.It is about environmental and health policies that expose our children to all manner of toxins in the air, land and water.It is about thinking we have the right to kill children with drones or by dropping toxic munitions on their countries that cause birth defects and miscarriages.It is about saddling our children with crippling education debt and no prospect for jobs.It is about telling boys (and men) they have to be tough and to fight and kill for what they want or think is right.It is about a national policy that denies children basic rights and systemically teaches them that violence is okay.And it is about a media so insensitive that it thinks it is okay to shove a microphone in the face of young victims in the name of sensationalized 24/7 cable “news” while under-reporting the root causes of this tragedy.Sandy Hook did not happen because of a lone, disturbed young man and it is not an isolated incident. It is an epidemic and we are all to blame. And today (and tomorrow and every day after that) is the time to confront this self-inflicted tragedy.
 
 
 
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 3:18 pm

(Sorry. The paragraph breaks didn't work. Luckily, it's a short article.)


A Culture That Condones The Killing Of Children And Teaches Children To Kill
 
by Lucinda Marshall
 
The Sandy Hook massacre isn’t just about the need for gun control laws, it is about a culture that condones the killing of children and teaches children that killing is okay.
 
It is about a country addicted to violence on television and movie screens.
 
It is about cuts in education spending.
 
It is about giving the military free access to our schools where they regale our children with romanticized delusions of military righteousness.
 
It is about environmental and health policies that expose our children to all manner of toxins in the air, land and water.
 
It is about thinking we have the right to kill children with drones or by dropping toxic munitions on their countries that cause birth defects and miscarriages.
 
It is about saddling our children with crippling education debt and no prospect for jobs.
 
It is about telling boys (and men) they have to be tough and to fight and kill for what they want or think is right.
 
It is about a national policy that denies children basic rights and systemically teaches them that violence is okay.
 
And it is about a media so insensitive that it thinks it is okay to shove a microphone in the face of young victims in the name of sensationalized 24/7 cable “news” while under-reporting the root causes of this tragedy.
 
Sandy Hook did not happen because of a lone, disturbed young man and it is not an isolated incident. It is an epidemic and we are all to blame. And today (and tomorrow and every day after that) is the time to confront this self-inflicted tragedy.
 
 
 
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 3:40 pm

I could not believe that I just awoke and found this article in my inbox.

Obviously, my thinking is not an anomaly.

 

Jae A. (323)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:05 pm
I also read that article this afternoon Carole. A lot of food for thought in it I think.

Mac was just reading a point of what I guess might be thought of as 'irony' as to the shooting. Directly across the street from the school is national headquarters of Lobbiest for Gun Retailers. They are the ones who promote the gun shows etc. around the country. Talk about a daily reminder of how these people lost their lives..via their gun lobbiest efforts. Perhaps they will have to find a new location ?
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:10 pm

Yes, Jae (and hugs to Mac).

It is remarkable that this country refuses to accept responsibility for its contribution to the destruction of ideals of a better life, and the possibility of actually achieving one.

Small wonder that carnage flourishes.

 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:43 pm

These were babies. And, if the U.S. cannot find the decency to respect their rights to full and healthy lives, then WE need to.

Our children are our hearts and souls.

 

eric B. (0)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:56 pm
The issues here have to do with the total brake down of the US caring policy since 1993.
If the US Gov’t really cared about our youth they would use technology of today to keep our children safe.
They allow implant and tracking of our pets by gps, CARS AS WELL AS BOAT, but IF THE POLITICAL DICTATORS GAVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYONE OTHER THAN THEMSELVES THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY TAKE THERE HEADS OUT OF THERE ASS AND PROTEST THIS COUNTRY INSTEAD OF FOREIGN COUNTRIES.
THEY ALLOW US TO IMPLANT AND TRACK OUR CARS, BOATS, PETS AND PLANES WITH GPS BUT OUR KIDS ARE NOT AS IMPORTANT?? (I guess its because they don’t vote)
If the glass in our schools was bullet proof as should be required to protect our girls and boys and our next generation, this incident might have been avoided as if adequate security required by the NEA was used this might not have even happened. (but they wait to people die before they do the right thing)
After 18 years at the state dept, 11 months in Kuwait and 18 and a half months in Afghanistan I need to come back to this????

I guess it will change when the dictator politicians we have start getting there children got abducted and raped.
 

eric B. (0)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:58 pm
The issues here have to do with the total brake down of the US caring policy since 1993.
If the US Gov’t really cared about our youth they would use technology of today to keep our children safe.
They allow implant and tracking of our pets by gps, CARS AS WELL AS BOAT, but IF THE POLITICAL DICTATORS GAVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYONE OTHER THAN THEMSELVES THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY TAKE THERE HEADS OUT OF THERE ASS AND PROTEST THIS COUNTRY INSTEAD OF FOREIGN COUNTRIES.
THEY ALLOW US TO IMPLANT AND TRACK OUR CARS, BOATS, PETS AND PLANES WITH GPS BUT OUR KIDS ARE NOT AS IMPORTANT?? (I guess its because they don’t vote)
If the glass in our schools was bullet proof as should be required to protect our girls and boys and our next generation, this incident might have been avoided as if adequate security required by the NEA was used this might not have even happened. (but they wait to people die before they do the right thing)
After 18 years at the state dept, 11 months in Kuwait and 18 and a half months in Afghanistan I need to come back to this????

I guess it will change when the dictator politicians we have start getting there children got abducted and raped.
 

John C. (81)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:58 pm
I absolutely agree Carol. The problem is not one that is confined to the U.S. alone.
I found a list on Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_School_massacres

I anyone lives in a country that has not appeared on the list please don't stop whatever you are doing.

I can't help but wonder what could drive a person to destroy the future.
 

eric B. (0)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 5:01 pm
The issues here have to do with the total brake down of the US caring policy since 1993.
If the US Gov’t really cared about our youth they would use technology of today to keep our children safe.
They allow implant and tracking of our pets by gps, CARS AS WELL AS BOAT, but IF THE POLITICAL DICTATORS GAVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYONE OTHER THAN THEMSELVES THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY TAKE THERE HEADS OUT OF THERE ASS AND PROTEST THIS COUNTRY INSTEAD OF FOREIGN COUNTRIES.
THEY ALLOW US TO IMPLANT AND TRACK OUR CARS, BOATS, PETS AND PLANES WITH GPS BUT OUR KIDS ARE NOT AS IMPORTANT?? (I guess its because they don’t vote)
If the glass in our schools was bullet proof as should be required to protect our girls and boys and our next generation, this incident might have been avoided as if adequate security required by the NEA was used this might not have even happened. (but they wait to people die before they do the right thing)
After 18 years at the state dept, 11 months in Kuwait and 18 and a half months in Afghanistan I need to come back to this????

I guess it will change when the dictator politicians we have start getting there children got abducted and raped.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 6:02 pm

Thanks Carole that piece you submitted is excellent. We have been at war since the end of WWII and that mentality of war (for profit) has seeped into all areas of our society and our thinking. Only the force of will by the American people can change that societal attitude. Today we are a country in deep sadness from the deaths of 20 babies, will we learn to come together and actually be the change we want?
 

Melania Padilla (179)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 6:37 pm
I so agree with Nyack Clancy!!
 

Daniel Partlow (189)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 6:42 pm
I own no guns and don't want to. I am a man of peace and having a weapon like that only invites one to go crazy when angered. I feel so horrible for the families of the victims and also for the other school kids who will have to live thru this trama.
 

John C. (81)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 7:37 pm
I do own them. You can't tell me I love my babies any less for it. I don't see as well as when I was twenty but I am still proficient. I went to places and did things for you. So you wouldn't have to. More important to me was we wanted such things to not happen here. We obviously failed.
That being said I also own a fire extinguisher. That does not mean that I intend to burn down the house.

As a society we excuse all sorts of behavior, forgive every infraction. Prescribe medications to treat a lack of responsibility, and an inability to cope when we hurt. Violence is an attitude. Not a weapon. Society opens the door to this. If every gun owner had a lobotomy in order for you to feel safe, you would still not be safe.
 

JL A. (275)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 8:42 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Just because you have done so within the last week. Violence begets violence and so our system considers solving with the death penalty, too.....and we try to call ourselves a country that leads on moral issues? Aren't these issues of life and death moral issues? Where are the faith leaders decrying this violence and death at odds with what their religious texts proscribe? Where are the political leaders with the moral integrity to draw a line in the sand and say we must act to stop such acts from being possible ever again? Where?
 

John C. (81)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 9:18 pm
Alexis de Tocqueville once said that "America is great because she is good. When she ceases to be good she will cease to be great."
Let's not lay it on the leaders. Lets take that responsibility for ourselves. If every leader in the U.S. had a lobotomy, we would be safer.
 

JL A. (275)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 9:31 pm
Good point John--while we petition Obama and Congress, we should also be in touch with our State representatives asking that they introduce bans on automatic weapons (other than authorized law enforcement and military) and our City Councils and County Supervisors to do the same. When CA didn't ban plastic bags earlier this year, dozens of cities have since done so...that leads to the momentum that makes it harder to ignore at higher levels of government--just like the numbers of cities and states passing resolutions to address Citizens United.
 

Cam V. (417)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 3:13 am
Do you think that folks buying military grade arms is the right thing to allow though John ? They kill so many people in such a short period of time and I have a problem with that being allowed. It is not allowed here in Canada but guns do make their way across the border but we see them mostly used in gang fight.

I took a look at that list and found Canada only listed once. In fact we has a mass shooting years ago at another University where a nut went on a rampage killing women. I think that was the worst massacer we ever had here.
 

Diane K. (136)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 8:02 am
Tragic beyond words. Watched news about shootings on TV. Thanks
 

Angelika R. (143)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 11:08 am
"They kill so many people in such a short period of time and I have a problem with that being allowed"

That is also true for the US weapons Israel uses on innocent children and I have the same problem with that being allowed.
We have now learned the names of those 20 babies and 6 adult victims and while the nation and many parts of the world are in shock and mourning, I want us all to take a minute to remember these 20 Non -American babies as well. I listed only 20 out of many more.
They, too were all under 10 years of age but their names were hardly known. Their parents and their nation were, and still are also in shock and grief.
They did not get full days media coverage, merely occasional snippits, no vigil, no presidential tears either. The same applies to the many unnamed Syrian children being killed right now with US support.

I hope that all who have and continue to sign for gun control in the US will be just as concerned to sign any future petitions and calls for US gun control in Israel! American tax dollars must not go into unlimited support for Israel's armament, particularly when these weapons are not used in compliance with US and international law.

14 November 2012
Omar Misharawi, 11 months,
Ranan Arafat, 7,

15 November 2012
Mohamed Sa’ed Allah, 3
Mohamed Al Abadlah, 2
Hanin Tafesh, 10 months,
Fares Al-Basyouni, 9

16 November 2012
Mahmoud Raed Sadallah, 4

18 November 2012
Tamer Abu Asaifan, 3
Jumana Abu Asaifan, 1
Tasneem Nahal, 9
Eyad Abu Khousa, 18 months
Ranin Mohammed Jamal Al-Dalou, 5
Jamal Mohammed Jamal Al-Dalou, 7
Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal Al-Dalou, 1
Hussein Jalal Nasser, 6
Najeeb Ahmed Najeeb, 1

19 November 2012
Mohammed Iyad Abu Zour, 5
Rana Al-Shandi,
Suhaib Hijazi, 4
Muhammad Hijazi, 4

 

Angelika R. (143)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 11:09 am
So much for "multiple fatalities reportet..", forgive me Kit for going off topic.
 

Kit B. (276)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 11:28 am

We hear so much about the rights granted by the second amendment, I ask do we not also have the right to send our children to school in safety? Do we not have the right to leave our homes and freely walk in public places without concern of where or whom is the next shooter? Far too much is said about the freedom of the Second Amendment and far too little about the human right of being safe.

Our "militarized" thinking about war has become a national obsession about all things that can kill. Address mental health issues, put sane and reasonable gun laws into place and enforce them. Maybe then we can also begin to finally become a society loves peace more than war. A society of empathy and not of hate and violence.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 12:14 pm
I wish for that to come true as much as you and all other Americans do!
 

Dandelion G. (387)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 12:22 pm
May your lives light the torch to show our Nation a better way to live, to treat others, and to heal itself then we as a Nation have been doing. My condolences to the family and friends of all who lost a loved one. If we do not change as a Nation in many ways, these will hardly be the last unfortunately. For them, let us make the changes at every level of society, we must examine all aspects of what we have become and where we need to go.
•Charlotte Bacon, 6
•Daniel Barden, 7
•Olivia Engel, 6
•Josephine Gay, 7
•Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 6
•Dylan Hockley, 6
•Madeleine F. Hsu, 6
•Catherine V. Hubbard, 6
•Chase Kowalski, 7
•Jesse Lewis, 6
•James Mattioli, 6
•Grace McDonnell, 7
•Emilie Parker, 6
•Jack Pinto, 6
•Noah Pozner, 6
•Caroline Previdi, 6
•Jessica Rekos, 6
•Aviele Richman, 6
•Benjamin Wheeler, 6
•Allison N. Wyatt, 6
Adults:

•Dawn Hochsprung, 47
•Rachel Davino, 29
•Anne Marie Murphy, 52
•Lauren Rousseau, 30
•Mary Sherlach, 56
•Victoria Soto, 27
 

Kathy B. (98)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 1:47 pm
Whitehouse petition - forwarded to me by a friend in the UK, who was able to sign it:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-address-issue-gun-control-through-introduction-legislation-congress/2tgcXzQC

Sorry, I don't know how to make links live :(
 

Kathy Chadwell (367)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 7:35 pm
Thank goodness Indiana took this seriously. It might have been far worse this time :(
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/12/man-man-arrested-for-planning-school-shooting.html

47 guns and $100,000-worth of ammunition
 

Jelica R. (157)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 7:57 pm
Here it is, Kathy, #11, with petitions I've listed so far:

1. RootsAction.org: Enough vagueness. We want gun control.

2. The PetitionSite: How Many Kids Need to Die? We Need Better Gun Control NOW.

3. The PetitionSite: President Obama: We Need to Talk About Gun Control, TODAY

4. Avaaz: President Obama: Time to Talk About Gun Control

5. MomsRising.org: Today Is the Day for Common Sense Gun Regulations

6. Mayors Against Illegal Guns: Demand a Plan

7. SignOn.org: Newtown, today we tell our leaders "No more!"

8. Daily Kos: Now is the time to talk gun control

9. Faithful America: Mike Huckabee's unchristian rhetoric about school shootings

10. AVAAZ: Tell the NRA: ENOUGH!

11. We the People: Immediately address the issue of gun control through the introduction of legislation in Congress.

 

Kit B. (276)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 8:30 pm

When I signed # 11 it had less than 25 signatures and now has -- 135,490 now that is ACTION!!!
 

l L. (1)
Monday December 17, 2012, 11:22 am
Hi; today is the 17th of Dec.
I am glad the media and the mental health officials, tapered their first response reporting down with mis-information and setting off panic responses to info that was not true.
Slowly more; actual info is coming out about the perp and his family.
What it is making me see is... the merits that this situation stands, on of its own making, and unexpected outcomes.
It makes me ponder, the daily trying to cope with what life has served you up and how one tries to find coping mechanisms. Mechanisms that seem harmless, but one can't forsee how one action can trigger the choiced outcomes.
What I am simply saying is this. These are the mothers guns.. It was her hobby. She taught this son to use and respect trying to teach him responsibility for reverence of. She was a nice person, was responsible, caring and giving and gave attention to caring for her son.. whatever it took.
She helped others.. she lived her life the best she could.. Like all of us.. Her choice to find solace at the gun range.. an outlet.. and find it as her hobby. So this is something else now..

I look at red flags and I don't trust the mental health world or government or even news media. So even now, I don't how much to take as truth or what info has been manipulated, so we; at large can be coraled to a designed end.
That's my challenge, because I learned about false flags to get us into stuff and later on find out it was staged.
This situation, and the way it opened up and the media frenzy and so many red flags, signalling "what is wrong with this picture". Even now I tread cautiously.
They have this law as of last year about being about to pick and choose who can be presignalled as a potential criminal and preventing it.
It was modeled after some book and the movie that came from that book and now is on our books as a law.
Mental health is not a perfect or near perfect science. In our not too distant past we were used as guinea pigs for government mentAl health experiments of the mind. Meaning they, by trial and error introduced stuff to cure by theory and the results, we lived with. They can say a thing is this or that with stigmas but don't know how to fix anything. In the old days they would tip families with money to bring in the crazy person.
We; have alot to consider and think about as a species on this planet. There are no easy answers. I sure don't know the answer.
It makes you look at what choices one makes and never knowing how the other person is proccessing or formulating anything.
I don't understand the mind. It is my opinion that the medical experts think they do.. I find fault with their abilities..
Thats just my take on it. I read the posts and it is interesting how the conversations are broadening and taking winds and turns.. All interesting points of ponder for me.
 

Lois Jordan (55)
Monday December 17, 2012, 4:41 pm
Have signed all the petitions in the comments above me, as well as some others. Just wanted to thank you for posting! I have full confidence that my Rep. Barber, who was shot alongside Gabby Giffords, will vote for the Assault Weapons Ban when it comes up. Will keep badgering my Sen's, though.
I'm hoping the Assault Weapons Ban will also ban multiple cartridges as well as gun shows, where there are no background checks. All this would be a good start.
 

l L. (1)
Monday December 17, 2012, 7:37 pm
Much conversations going on everywhere... a solutions frenzy in the making.
Big issue is mental health and serving up people healthrecords as public property to prevent problems like this for gun control..
Red flag!!!!!

One sign to watch for is depression and being a loner. they say..
First let it be known, depression is a natural response to living in adverse conditions. This so called expectation to be this on-going howdie doodie personality, euphoric state of blliss continually is a myth. No mental health care profession can be euphorically happy as a way of life. So throw that argument out with the bath water.
Lack of understanding, having the right information, not being victimized, cheated, robbed raped or targeted or beaten can't make.. any person pretend they are happy and happy all of the time. It's not realistic but we are told we have mental health issues when we are not this... by people.
It's falsehood and human error.
So I don't seek happiness, it's fleeting. To master thankfulness and a degree of contentment is enough for me. I don't have the need to be confused.. So why put that myth on anyone..
There is too much hatred in this world, wars, unfairness and biases to name a few. Kids see our hypocrisy and it makes them confused and like any of us who are trying to figure this all out and can't.. they try to find ways to cope or succomb. No adult is free of this human dilemna. We are told about the glory of living but what we find is the hypocrisy and the double talk and double standards. People with power and in powerful positions can use their powers to do what they please and quick to tell you... "you don't have a leg to stand on". So I am leery of this diagnosis of depression and the labeling of people and children who don't need this in their lives.
To have records made public on people when people in power write lies on people and... get away with it and you never change it.. Until it happens to someone who is the right people/person and it is stopped. Mostly it is women.. who like in history are labeled falsely and thrown away in a mental health malfunction.

Now.. being a loner is not a sign that you are mentally ill or.. a potential criminal.
John gacy was not a loner and had his victims buried in the walls, back yard. Recently I read in Florida about a boys boarding home(opened in 41) and now closed and bodies buried in the woods and on the property. These people were not loners.
Sometimes people just want to not deal with people and all their issues. Maybe they just want someplace to be for them and how they want to live their lives. Maybe they just want ...peace.. from the cliches and politics and society ills. Now comes the labeling.
I don't trust humankind. I wish I could.
Kids ask the whys to life and some answers I can't give cause the answers are more than they would ever understand and would cause more questions.
And if you think about kids trying to understand life and have been a kid before, then you understand adulthood and trying to understand and cope with the human experience.
I listen to everyone who has a mouth.. in 2010 the tea party and their guns.....Our country is programmed for violence and it is catching up with us. We are a blended culture trying to be a community at large and we hate each other. Countries of the world side by side can't get along and we live in a country where we are blended and and we hate each other.. With that comes the violence and uncertainity and the hypocrisy. The value for human life is at an all time low. Those in meaningful positions don't help the matter.
And just like Just Carole and anyone else here has stated , we need to check ourselves; cause we are wrecking ourselves.(my words)
Another thing.. this 20 yr old is said not to be a perp.. so I won't call him that any longer.. The hard drive on the lap is smashed and damaged. Tells me.. something... what was on there that triggered this?
I am just frustrated about this life on this planet and what we are born into and trying to make the most of it. And then our lives collide and what someone else does or doesn't do., changes your life.
 
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