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When We Kill Without Caring -- Bill Moyers

World  (tags: americans, civil rights, Human rights, conflict, death, ethics, freedoms, government, middle-east, news, violence, world )

- 1955 days ago -
The Times told of a Muslim cleric in Yemen named Salem Ahmed bin Ali Jaber, standing in a village mosque denouncing Al Qaeda. It was a brave thing to do - a respected tribal figure, arguing against terrorism. But two days later, when he and a police-->

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Julie E (405)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 10:36 am
Wow, very scary. The thought of someone flying a drone like a toy. That's how I envision it. Thanks Kit.

David C (129)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 10:40 am
drone killing is the disappointment with Mr. Obama that I can't get over.....I do see benefits of not having to risk soldiers, but too many negative issues ---- on the other hand I am worried all the recent coverage is hiding work on gun regulations, climate, economy, etc....kind of like a distraction from all the other problems......gotta figure out how to push Mr. Obama away from drone use, but onward in the good he is doing elsewhere without too many Americans getting distracted....

. (0)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 12:38 pm
I do not understand why Obama has not been stopped by both parties. This has been a reckless use of power that nobody in the military, or the Congress seems to recognize.

Roger G (154)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 1:23 pm
noted, thanks !

Mike S (86)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 4:52 pm
Noted and shared. This is a crime against humanity. Thank you Kit.

Angelika R (143)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 5:00 pm
lets wait till UN have completed their investigation in civilian fatalities by drone strikes. This issue now being so big all over the news and widely discussed in media and congress, there might be some result coming out of this, hopefully a change for better. I hate to see the nightmare coming of more and more countries buying and using weaponized drones. Germans also debate and fight like mad to stop our govt.s plans.
Perhaps more boots on the ground COULD be the answer to stop all these wars ? Resistance would surely grow in that case.

Carlos L (1)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 6:15 pm
A sad comment on US foreign policy.

Helen Porter (39)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 10:16 pm
doesn't give rise to second thoughts by those judges who prematurely handed our president the Nobel Prize for Peace. Better they had kept it on the shelf in hopeful waiting, untarnished.

Nobel Peace Prize!!!

How many thousands or millions of tax payers money did that cost him?

Mike H (252)
Sunday February 10, 2013, 10:55 pm
This is just wrong on several levels.

Ro H (0)
Monday February 11, 2013, 4:41 am

Sheryl G (360)
Monday February 11, 2013, 10:04 am
No I wouldn't perfer to send in American troops but we send them in too many places for no "defense" to our own Country anyways. Our troops have been used for the "special interests" of a few, our Government not taking care of us, but making policies based on what is for Corporate gain or good. Stop putting our troops anywhere that we have no need of being.

Why is it an either or situation? Why is it troops or drones? Can we not say that neither are welcome? We make more enemies being in places we don't belong, now we are killing innocent people trying to get a few "bad" guys that we are told are "bad" guys. Are they? We have secret this and secret that, from a Country that always was against "torture" but found it acceptable to do so, from a Country that goes into wars based on Lies like Iraq and let us not forget VietNam. How do we know we are being told the truth in this?

Also who, out of the whole planet of people, gave us the right to be judge, jury, and executioner? Our President, the first Peace Prize winner with a "kill" list, has even killed our own citizens with these drones, one being a child. This same President that over stepped Congress to make choices about Libya, our own President that signed in the NDAA taking away our rights as US citizens both abroad and in our own Country.

Yet many, not all, of my liberal friends seem pretty quiet on this, because he is a black and a Democrat. And that was a smart move by the Oligarchy, a real smart move. When the people were screaming from the Bush years, of the wars, the crashing of our economy, the Banksters robbing us blind, the home forclosures increasing. That it is Bill Clinton, a Democrat that signed off the Glass-Steagall, signed in NAFTA that the Independent Ross Perot said we'd hear the "sucking sound" of our jobs leaving this Country, and we have.

That it was under Bill Clinton's Welfare Reform Act of 1996, that the poor single women with children now suffer so greatly as they can't get the help they require in this terrible place of limited jobs. Republicans like that one that Clinton did, claiming now the rolls are down to 30% of what it was back before Clinton signed in the new changes. A true success they claim, not realizing that the 70% of women and children are still there today, even worse as it is a worse economy but they are quietly suffering.

I say QUIET suffering, for the worse thing one can be is a single Mother needing Welfare. Oh don't the people love to pick on the women who are in need of help. The Banksters can rob millions, hell billions, but don't let a single Mother get a check to try to keep her children under a roof and some Food Stamps to feed them while she figures out how to pay Day Care and the rent with a minimum wage job. That is IF she can find a job. No bash bash the poor women but the Banksters can gorge away.......

So, be it drones, or otherwise, the Patriarchal systems rather would continue a new line of killing verses stopping killing period. Kill us, kill our children, kill their children so some other Mothers are grieving. It just goes on, men who keep the playing field wide open for themselves, to gorge our Earth of resources, to rip everyone off with the scams in the financial markets, to pay themselves higher salaries, and now tired of the tanks want to play with the new killing toys, drones.

And we wonder why so many are upset with us? And we wonder why so many of our own are hurting? The ones in Power do not care, they don't care if you are not in their League, be you a citizen of the US, Iraq, Yemen, or any of any Country. As long as it fits into the "few" powerfuls plans, that will make them happy, make them richer, make them more powerful, that is all they care about.

Peace Prize my arse......Has there been a day of Peace with EITHER Party? Republicans just as bad with their own set of misery they dole out, again mostly at women and poor children. Oh yes, the Elders have served their purpose, unless they are rich Elders they don't count either.

Past Member (0)
Monday February 11, 2013, 10:14 am
Well said, Dandelion. I really can't even begin to add anything useful after the wise words that you have written. I'm just sorry that I can't send you another green star yet. Thank you.

James Maynard (84)
Monday February 11, 2013, 1:15 pm
Great commentary from Moyers and Dandelion G.
Thanks for the post Kit.

Craig Zimmerman (86)
Monday February 11, 2013, 1:59 pm
I have heard some Obama supporters defending the president's asassination program. I wonder if they would be supporting it if it were George W. Bush's policy?

Sheryl G (360)
Monday February 11, 2013, 2:35 pm
That is the problem with supporting Party loyality, even when the Party is clearly wrong. I see it the other way too with the Republicans. We need to start thinking as Human Beings First, then as Americans, that way we might in doing so correct many things that are wrong.

Thanks Brian and James.

Mary Donnelly (47)
Monday February 11, 2013, 3:08 pm
Thanks for sad info.

Birgit W (160)
Monday February 11, 2013, 3:42 pm
Scary. Thank you

marie C (163)
Monday February 11, 2013, 4:26 pm
Thank you Kit

Monday February 11, 2013, 4:29 pm
"When We Kill Without Caring" -- It's called WAR or TERRORISM. Both are condoned, encouraged and financed by our government [the U.S. taxpayer] under the shroud of so-called "self defense." - Self defense is occupying and murdering people in a country that is no threat to America? That IS terrorism. - Terrorism is simply war, with a bigger budget and anyone who does not approve of US foreign policy is obviously a TERRORIST, INSURGENT or a THREAT TO AMERICA?

And deserves death by drone?

Past Member (0)
Monday February 11, 2013, 4:39 pm
Successive administrations have committed acts in America's name that has left blood on all of our hands. Yet many people do not care because they accept what they have been told to accept that somehow we are defending our nation from mortal enemies. However, it is not just a matter of mass indoctrination. The reality is that such a small percentage of Americans are serving in the military, that most Americans don't even know a serviceman or servicewoman. Even though our nation is actively engaged in an imperial war of conquest, most people don't think of it personally as "our war." It's "the war" being fought by somebody we don't know to stop people that we have been told are our enemies, but nonetheless, most Americans live their lives without thinking much about the war. This, one might suspect, is actually much worse than simply not caring; it's a deliberate choosing of ignorance.


Monday February 11, 2013, 4:54 pm
"most Americans live their lives without thinking much about the war. This, one might suspect, is actually much worse than simply not caring; it's a deliberate choosing of ignorance"

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Lin Penrose (92)
Monday February 11, 2013, 5:17 pm
Thanks Kit. We humans have been killing without caring about individuals for many thousands of years! There has been a 'glitch' in our caring evolution. Look what we have and are doing to the only home we have? Kill - destroy - consume- pollute.

Drones are not needed, unless you enjoy killing from a distance and have training with all the Apps. & video games we have been training our young with for war. Then there are all the humans who seem to enjoy killing up close and personal, regardless of the species.

Laying blame on the current 'warrior' in this world is a waste of time. Look at your personal ancestors for blame, in all countries and cultures of we humans for over 45,000 years at least.

Sheryl G (360)
Monday February 11, 2013, 6:05 pm
Not sure Lin what your end point is. So because humans have been killing each other for over 45,000 years we do what? Not try to stop this because it is pointless? Warriors are there because Governments choose to place them there. We, being a Democracy and not a Dictatorship hold blame for every innocent death that happens, We The People Are the Government. I'm tired of blood on my hands, I'm in hopes that the American people enmass would also feel that way too. I'm not holding just the warrior to blame, I'm holding every single American to blame that has not stood up to these wars.

The Oligarchy learned from the VietNam era, and Brian brings up a point, that too few Americans are paying attention because the war isn't shown nightly on the news, no views of our soldiers being taken from the field of battle, no scenes of the war of any type like during VietNam, no flag drapped coffins are shown coming off the planes, and there is no draft. Is easy to forget a war is even going on for many people, only 1% of the population has any direct or indirect involvement in the wars. Many parents cry alone in this, many a wife becomes the single Mother without many caring or knowing.

Therefore the well to do don't have to worry about their sons or daughters being sent off to the endless wars and as usual it's the poor who for the lack of opportunities sign on in hopes of getting a skill, a college education at some point, and a paycheck for now with medical benefits. The poor fighting the wars the rich create. We need equitable choices in this society so citizens don't feel their only option is to enter the military, we need to return the draft so all citizens, without exception, must serve if called, and we would see how quickly the well to do would speak out on another war if their child would be asked to serve.

Monday February 11, 2013, 6:13 pm
"Warriors are there because Governments choose to place them there." -- Perhaps governments put them there because munitions manufacturers fund elections in exchange for obedience and profit ... and "putting them there" is part of the deal?

Sheryl G (360)
Monday February 11, 2013, 6:43 pm
Is why there is a push but some to get the money out of the elections.

Judy C (97)
Monday February 11, 2013, 7:08 pm
Virtually ALL wars make some people very rich, and as Bob Dylan once said, "The executioner's face is always well hidden". We need to get our own house in order, because it's crumbling. Dandelion describes the mess we're in well.

I am really disappointed in Obama. Someone is pulling his strings, and as we used to say, he "sold out". I think he should be stripped of the Peace Prize, because he is continuing the reign of terror of the Bushes.

Matloob ul Hasan (81)
Monday February 11, 2013, 7:27 pm
Soon people will realize that "Skynet is the virus!"

Joanne Dixon (38)
Monday February 11, 2013, 8:11 pm
Does anyone besides me remember the episode in the original Star Trek, back in the 60's, about the culture which had evolved what we would now call virtual war? The war fought with computer modeling, and if the building you were in was hit in the modeling, you calmly reported and stood in line to be vaporized? The point was that if war gets so sanitized that no one is offended, there's no reason to work for peace, no incentive to negotiate, so peace never happens.

Julie W (32)
Tuesday February 12, 2013, 1:49 am
I'm not a US citizen, but I was pleased when Obama won the election. I'm feeling very disappointed now!

Ro H (0)
Tuesday February 12, 2013, 5:33 am

Lloyd H (46)
Tuesday February 12, 2013, 7:32 am
The tag line is nice propaganda but a lie, it is not a matter of caring and it is not entirely a matter of not knowing, it is a matter of some times things must be done that require not only the dirty hands of the actual actors but those they protect. And then there are the times that it is none of the above, such as the pain, suffering and death caused by international sanctions or the US backing or at least refusing to oppose the Israeli treatment of Palestinians or the enforcement of the International Gag Rule on condoms that condemned Millions to slow death by HIV/AIDS. Personally I will put the Israel-Palestine and Gag Rule far higher on the Evil/Do Not Care Scale than the drone strikes. You can also add to the sanitized killing list the Repug/Tea Bagged opposition to VAWA, legal safe abortions and contraception, Gun Regulation, food stamps-Medicaid, aka the War, on the Poor, affordable health care that last I saw kills more than 45,000 Americans each and every year. And by the by just what were the civilian casualties in the non-sanitized and reported WWI, WW II, Korea, Vietnam, or even Iraq I and Iraq II and Afghanistan. Some of you are being really selective, aka cherry picking, WAR IS NEVER AND CLEAN TIDY. Actually the USA is not a Democracy it is a Democratic Republic and our elected representative government has in its finite wisdom and stupidity granted full Exercise of Force War Powers to our Elected President/Commander in Chief to combat an ideology, Terrorism, not a Nation mot even a particular terrorist group, just terrorism and the practitioners thereof. If you want to stop the drones you are going to have to get ALL OF CONGRESS, HOUSE AND SENATE to repeal not only the Authorization of Force but the entire Patriot Act and good lick with that. Hell our Elected Representatives refuse to even pass sane protective measures in regard to Gun Violence.

Sheryl G (360)
Tuesday February 12, 2013, 8:09 am
We must keep trying, it has been apathy and lack of knowledge that has allowed this to grow into the situations we see all around us. I don't see one injustice as a greater or lesser than another, an injustice that inflicts pain or suffering upon anyone for whatever reason is still an injustice. Obama had the chance to repeal the Patriot Act, he did not, in fact gave us the NDAA. So there is lots of work cut out for us all, and it will have to be multi-prong, and I would like to see more Independents getting into office like Bernie Sanders, this two Party system is failing us. If it must be two Parties then perhaps two new Parties for I'm disgusted with both the ones we have now.

Tuesday February 12, 2013, 8:10 am
@ Judy and Julie. -- I don't think anyone should be disappointed with Obama, the alternative is unthinkable. I have no doubt that Obama would llike to do many sensible things, but is hobbled by the very non-bi-partisan Republicans in Congress... So let's cut Obama a little slack and hope that his wisdom overcomes the Republican "anti-everything Democratic, we want the power" policy.

Brad Kraus (6)
Tuesday February 12, 2013, 8:18 am
Thanks for the post of a thoughtful article. Drone strikes, as with any military action, need to be carefully thought out and reviewed before being carried out. Force in any form should be a last resort. The impersonality of this method seems to make it easier in some eyes, but it is still killing. I hope for a day when we all understand there is no good reason to take a life.

Gene J (290)
Tuesday February 12, 2013, 9:21 am
Dandelion, you have done an exception job of articulating the reasons the drone war is unacceptable. I'm as liberal as they come, but I want our country protected. It presents a conundrum. This new form of attack where are not fight a nation but wraiths who slip and out of nations, some with complicity, most not. I do not like the US assuming the role of judge, jury and executioner, no one is wise enough to be all three at the same time. We require due process in this country and I think we owe the world no less. If that means we allow someone to live who perhaps may cause us harm, well, our principles count for something to do and I have never believed the end justifies the means. We track them, we catch them and we try them. That is the honorable method. The question of is it better to have boots on the ground everywhere TO catch these evil men or is it better to strike from afar when we have what we consider proof positive their location? I hate the term collateral damage, it is so easy to "sanitize" murder most foul with words like collateral damage. Those innocents are dead, murdered by American power because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is not something to celebrate. I don't believe our President does - I believe this, and other stresses of his office are what are turning his hair grey - as has happened with every President we have had of whom we have "before" and "after" pictures. But, in the end, we are not at war the world, only a small segment of it which says it is at war with us. That is more in the nature of a criminal gang than a war. We don't use drones against the Crips and Bloods and whomever here, why on earth should we think it is okay to do so outside our borders? Are those civilians less worthy of life than the citizens who are not gang members in New York or Chicago or Minneapolis? I grant this is a less bloody way to fight than an invasion but, even one innoncent life lost is too many. For me. Malala given where she lives could as easily have been killed by US as Al Qaeda. Neither prospect makes me feel very good about myself. We need find a better way and that way ought involve finding, arresting and trying criminals, not assassination or murder by proxy. Who holds the high moral ground in that contest? I don't think anyone does, I think it demeans us all. Those of us it does not kill...

Tuesday February 12, 2013, 9:57 am
@ Gene.... "I want our country protected" - Protected from what? No one is threatening America, but sure as hell will be if the kids playing video games with drones don't stop killing innocent civillians. It is NOT collateral damage, it is targeted murder. The only drone deaths reported in the mainstream media are those of "militants", "terrorists", "insurgents" or whatever US spin doctors are calling them today. The word "civillian" never appears but six year old kids are surely not terrorists. As the average, sensible "terrorist" does not wear a "terrorist" uniform or "terrorist" badge it must be quite an accomplishment to identify "terrorists" from altitude and murder them with very expensive missiles?

Gloria H (88)
Tuesday February 12, 2013, 12:11 pm
for every drone attack, we save an American life. For every drone attack gone wrong, we kill an innocent life..with ripple effect...widows, orphans, relatives who now have a motive for revenge.
During WW2, English and German civilians were incinerated in bomb attacks. Not to mention Hiroshima, Nagasaki.
that being said. We now trade, intermarry with the former "enemy". We welcome the Euro and the Yen.
What a curious species. Actively killing and then befriending like nothing ever happened because we "need" the goodies, $$ that our "enemies" have. Is it forgiveness? Greed? Or a sad waste of human life and potential because of how the other guy thinks politically? Oh yeah, also because their "God" is differant than ours?

Lois Jordan (63)
Tuesday February 12, 2013, 2:23 pm
Noted. Thanks, Kit. Others above have put forth excellent comments here. I can only add that I've been signing petitions and sending letters against drones for awhile. While our numbers are mounting, we continue to go unheard. DC has been in a fearmongering state since 9/11 without letup. Unfortunately, they're just fostering more hatred by using these drones.

Sheryl G (360)
Wednesday February 20, 2013, 7:19 am
I agree. Your report has been submitted to Customer Service. Thank you.

marie C (163)
Wednesday February 20, 2013, 4:20 pm
Noted thanks for sharing
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