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Conjecture, Perhaps - But Something to Think About


World  (tags: Iran, Iraq, US Navy, navy exercises, Persian Gulf, terrorism, false-flag terrorism, USS Enterprise )

RC
- 2604 days ago - opednews.com
The US Navy is starting "exercises" in the Persian Gulf. Read this article from Op-Ed News and follow the links to see what some people believe could happen. Just a thinking point...I have no clue as to the truth.



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Comments

RC deWinter (418)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 8:05 am
Thanks to Charly for this story lead...I wouldn't put anything past BUSHCO. After all, they knocked down the WTC, didn't they? Not to mention that missile that hit the Pentagon.
 

RC deWinter (418)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 8:05 am
Thanks to Charly for this story lead...I wouldn't put anything past BUSHCO. After all, they knocked down the WTC, didn't they? Not to mention that missile that hit the Pentagon.
 

RC deWinter (418)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 8:05 am
Thanks to Charly for this story lead...I wouldn't put anything past BUSHCO. After all, they knocked down the WTC, didn't they? Not to mention that missile that hit the Pentagon.
 

Pamela R. (159)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 8:35 am
I wish I didn't believe that this could be true.
 

Pastor Tim Redfern (581)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 8:48 am
Yeah, Pamela, me too.
But, this has 'credibility' written all
over it. This is so believable, I will
now be surprised (and pleased, of course!)
if it does NOT happen.
Aircraft carriers are damned difficult
things to sink, but it can be done. The
idea of 5,000 men and women dying in so
horrible a way, only so our Satanic, death-
obssessed administration can open a 3rd
theatre of war, is a sickening notion.
I don't mean to be flippant about this,
but if Jean-Luc Picard were the Captain
of THIS "Enterprise", maybe she and her
crew might stand a chance.

Thank you, Cate.
'keeping a close eye on this one.
noted.
 

Dolores H. (2)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 8:53 am
I pray it's not true, but I too have my doubts.
 

Mari 's (1364)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 8:54 am
You cannot currently send a star to Cate because you have done so within the last week.
 

Gail L. (30)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 9:09 am
Noted
 

Lisa Swift (79)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 9:13 am
Same here, Pam! Same here!

But unfortunately, it could very well be! It has always seemed strange to me that GWB would blame Saddam for the WTC and Pentagon destruction on 9/11, since all the perpetrators were Wahabists from Saudi Arabia... Even Osama is from SA!

Cheney and the neocons are fully capable of planning and carrying out something like this, which is why he needs to be impeached first--we cannot afford to have him in charge! To give him access to the black box and red button is to ask to be destroyed along with the rest of the world.
 

Elle J. (276)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 9:15 am
Noted! I wouldn't put any thing past this administration. Sad but true.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 9:17 am
This may not be a healthy way to think but I look at it this way: "if they wear a uniform they are probably corrupt" I don't even trust the police anymore.
 

David Gould (155)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 9:57 am
Some of the sourses for this story are highly questionable but then the same can be said of many other stories that turned out to be correct, Are the leaders that desparate to start a war on any pretext? Possibly.
This story has to be at least probable in the present climate. like Peace above I pray that it is untrue but doubts exist.
 

Stephana S. (27)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 10:01 am
This is horrible, I knew our government was corrupt; but this seems to be typical of the Bush Administration. They let theire greed get the best of the human instinct they seem to lack. I think all humans will get what is coming to them, this planet probably would have been better off without us to destroy her!!
 

Nancy M. (62)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 10:07 am
Hmmmm, very interesting. My son expects to be sent to the Persian gulf in the near future. I don't want to put too much into this. I will hope that its just conjecture.
 

Danielle Lorman (9)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 10:31 am
I cerainly wouldn't put this past this regime. They want war with Iran and they are going to do anything to make sure that happens. But with this story made public I doubt that this will happen now.
Logically, because Iran is building a power plant in Iraq and Bush is going on and on about Iran using that as a way to get weapons into Iraq I don't think he is going to need to fake another attack this time. Plus he already has the support of most of the Senate for his new insanity. I am glad the story was reprinted just case...we never know with Bushco...thank you, Cate!
 

serge vrabec (280)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 11:14 am
You never know, but my instinct says no...... Thx Cate!
 

Uhoud Abdulmajeed (185)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 11:36 am
I wish America shoot Iran Iranian regim are eviles they want to occupay the middle east
 

Uhoud Abdulmajeed (185)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 11:38 am
I wish America shoot Iran Iranian regim are eviles they want to occupay the middle east
 

Jennie B. (14)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 11:46 am
If only it were so simple as the America (we used to know) getting rid of an "evil" regime. No, this is Bush/Cheney's agenda which always has to do with 1) Greed, POWER, & money making possibilities 2) at the expense of the American people 3) despite the # of Iranians and Americans who may die for Bush/Cheney's greed, POWER & money goals-colaterial damage which doesn't bother Bush a bit in Iraq so why would it in Iran 4) at the American Peoples' expense (our Tax Money) and the services we will NOT be getting and all the BROKEN SYSTEMS that will be further worsened by another war (the health care system, Medicare/Medicaid, Childrens' health, Protective Services-none to be had really, a deteriorating environment and educational system). In other words a totally ANTI/UN-AMerican policy then Bush/co will pursue it w/vigor because of his own sociopathic self interests and to you know where with the rest of us! Noted/Shared
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 12:19 pm
Gosh, all those evil mommies and babies in Iran that Uhoud wants to "shoot" (nuke) because Uhoud believes that their government is evil. I wonder if there are any evil people with expansionist plans in Uhoud's government? If so, should the U.S. shoot Uhoud? I don't think so. There are many evil governments in the world, but I don't see that as a reason to kill all the mommies and babies who live in those countries. The mommies and babies aren't evil and they are already suffering enough due to the evil governments that don't care about them.
 

serge vrabec (280)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 12:26 pm
"To pretend to know when you do not know is a disease."- Lao-Tzu [Li Erh] (570-490 BC) 'Old Sage', Father of Taoism

 

. (0)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 1:04 pm
Noted with interest. Thanks Cate.
 

Edwin TwoTrees (178)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 1:19 pm
I can absolutely see this scenario getting us into war (revisit the Gulf of Tonkin). But, I still expect something to happen on US soil so Bush can declare martial law and prevent elections from taking place.
 

Carolyn T. (234)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 1:25 pm
Noted; thank you Cate. It is all too easy for me to speculate given the current climate and all of the information spewing out of the sewers of Capital Hill and Pennsylvania Avenue. But I am not going to buy into this tactic POTUS just loves: the politics of terror. It is being served up many times a day and it is tactic that is used with prisoners: keep them destablized, feed their anxiety and fear with a steady diet of the same. I am not going to play. This is an interesting ride, may be something to it; maybe not. But I am going to sit this one out and not play with the possibilities. And in the absence of facts...absence of trust...and absence of Congress and the Supreme Court on removing these key players immediately--simply suspend them during investigation with no pay. We are not without experienced leadership who can step in. They can still connive but they won't have the clout they do now. And since the Constitution can be "amended" by a stroke of the presidential pen these days, we can use that technique to bring about what I suppose would be a form of coup. Turnabout would be "rule of law"--jungle law.
 

Martin K. (80)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 1:48 pm
I wrote a lengthy piece and before I was finished Internet Explorer closed me out. I am so sick of wasting my time I am leaving care 2 and its Zionist controllers. Feinsteine, Lieberman, Shumer, Wolfowitz (Mossad spy) Kissenger, Pearle, and every one from Rumsfeld, Cheney Bush, are all complicited with the wars for corporate powers and oil wealth.
Serge the Judeo/Christian religions are plagerized from the Egyptian, Babalonian, Greek and Hindu religions myths of 10,000 to 500 BC. Christ, Abraham, Moses,Joseph NEVER lived and no historian of the times ever mentioned them. If you read the Epic of Gilgamesh, you have Genesis, Ten Commandments from the Book of the dead (Papyrous of ANI, the Virgin birth first written in 3000 BC Horus the SUN god was born of the virgin Isis, impregnated by anyway you get the point. The whole of the Judeo/Christian religion was written by men to govern and control the masses.

" The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man called Christ in place of the sun, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun." Thomas Paine- 1737-1809

Christianity was a Roman story developed politically, the political establishment historized Jesus for social control.
" Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery." Robert G. Ingersoll, 1833-1899
Those who know the truth use the myth to control society. It empowers those who know the truth to manipulate and control society.

Christianity along with other theolistic belief systems is the fraud of the age, serves to detach species people from the natural world and EACH OTHER. A myth while widely believed is false.

Bethlehem, the loaf of bread, the water bearer, 3 Kings (Orians Belt, Virgo (virgin) Crux, are in the sky not on earth. The sun appears to be dead from the 22 to 24 of December. On the 25th it rises 1 degree north and he is risen from the dead.

Twelve apostles were the 12 constelations, represented with human or animal figures with Horus (the Sun God) as its head.
Karl Gustave Jung " God did not make man to worship him, Man made God to worship himself.

Admiral Fallen when asked about the attack said, " Not on my Watch. Already pilots are refusing to bomb Iran.
Every War since the French Revolutian, Civil War,WW1,WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Faulkland Islands, Balkans, Desert Storm. Gulf War, Afghanistan, Iraq, Were all planned events and their is more then ample proof to prove that statement.

Sabbastian Zionism, Illuninati, 33 degree Free Masons,Knights of Malta, Kof C, Opus Dei, CFR, AIPAC, Bilderbergers, Committee of 300, (ruled by the Queen of England) other royals, Kissenger and Bush Jr. are members, Skull and Bones (Racism-Murder and Robbery, PNAC, you can name every secret society and you will know who in reality owns the world.

Prescott Bush, Dulles, Nixon, GHWBush, Averill Harriman, Rockefeller, Duponts, J.P.Morgan all worked for Germany and made their fortunes, Traitors then and Now.
 

Timothy Brown (1)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 1:48 pm
noted
 

Jaclin S. (230)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 2:55 pm
This is noted. Sadly I agree - I would not believe anything BushCo said nor would I put anything past them - they are a shockingly deceitful lot. I cannot understand why this person has made it his mission to utterly bring down the USofA in anyway he and his admin possibly can - the idea of it is absolutely criminal - maybe folks are correct in saying Bush definitely has a mental problem and should be removed from office along with his cohorts immediately if not sooner!!!! My thoughts and prayers are with you America - Blessings.
 

Ken S. (38)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 3:00 pm
Noted....with sadness
 

O O O. (139)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 3:44 pm
Noted
 

Mara G. (411)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 4:00 pm
I think maybe Cate and Uhoud's computers have the hiccups. Pages have been loading very slowly lately. Good article but old news really. They have been in the gulf "exercising" for quite some time. Very good points Martin. Trying to get people to listen to them, another story. They're locked!! It may even be in our "genetic" makeup to believe in Myth. Noted
 

Zhaphod Bettelebrox (48)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 4:20 pm
Not fond of GWB either, but this is nothing more than a Wacko posting at Navy Blog,
Best wishes,
Zaphod
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 5:54 pm
Cate if you go to that navy blog you will see that the person who posted that the USS Enterprize was heading for the gulf and it is going to be blown up in a flace flag planned event by the US posted that article Oct 2006 a year ago last month .
So I would not get too upset by what you read.

Bush is a nut case we all know that and I don't put anything past him and Cheney but this article is an old one.
 

Denice G. (45)
Saturday November 3, 2007, 10:17 pm
Noted and thanks Cate
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 1:12 am
PREPARE FOR THE SINKING OF A U.S. AIRCRAFT CARRIER - The USS Enterprise CVN-65!
JP Liggett; Carmel, NY
Oct 8, 2006

“THOSE PLANNING THE ATTACK ARE INSIDE THE U.S. AND ISRAELI GOVERNMENTS and view the loss of the Enterprise crew as a necessary sacrifice to induce Americans to support war against Iran. Put bluntly, the ship and crew are to be cannon fodder.”

The existence of a hideous plan to sacrifice a U.S. Aircraft Carrier as a
pretext for war with Iran is presently being uncovered!

The Hal Turner Show has been told that within the next five (5) weeks, the
United States will “suffer” a missile attack upon the aircraft carrier USS
Enterprise, presently on patrol near the Persian Gulf. This attack will appear
to be from numerous “Silkworm” and/or “Sunburn” missiles which will sink the
vessel and kill most of the 5,000 crew onboard.

The “attack” will be blamed on Iran and thus provide the Bush Administration
with an excuse to go to war with that nation.

The Hal Turner Show has learned that the missiles used to attack the USS
Enterprise will not be fired from or by Iran, but rather will be a “false flag
operation” made to LOOK as though Iran carried out the attack!!
http://justanothercoverup.com/
=================================================
Yes, this IS Old News; and, yes, the Bushco mis-Administration IS quite capable of planning such a "false-flag" attack {as they DEFINITELY DID on 9/11!}. So, the Bushco mis-Administration could STILL be planning such an attack, again this year, in 2007 rather than in 2006.

IT SHOULD BE EVERYONE'S DUTY TO SO INFORM THE SAILORS ON THE USS ENTERPRISE; AND IN FACT ON ALL THE SHIPS OF THE U.S. NAVY. It could STILL happen.
IT IS, I REPEAT, EVERYONE'S DUTY TO GET THIS INFORMATION TO THE SAILORS. Whether the False Flag operation was planned for last year, or this year, or will be the following year, in 2008. DON'T JUST SIT THERE AND WRING YOUR HANDS!!!!!

During the Viet Nam war, SAILORS COMMITTED SABOTAGE ON SHIPS IN THE U.S. NAVY, and HELD UP WAR OPERATIONS FOR WEEKS AND FOR MONTHS. No matter HOW HIGH-TECH A SHIP, NUCLEAR-POWERED OR OTHERWISE, it is a MARVEL how a HANDFUL OF NAILS THROWN INTO JUST THE RIGHT TUBE, WILL TOTALLY MANGLE ESSENTIAL EQUIPMENT!

I have just bought a book dealing with this, in fact!
The title is "Soldiers In Revolt; GI Resistance During the Viet Nam War", and it is by David Cortright with an Introduction by Howard Zinn.

The pertinent info is on pages 123 - 126 of that book.
Here are some salient quotes:
One of the first publicly disclosed acts of sabotage......occurred on May 26, 1970, aboard the destroyer USS Anderson..........it suffered a major breakdown, resulting in some two hundred thousand dollars worth of property damage and a delay of several weeks...... An investigation disclosed that someone had dropped nuts, bolts, and chains down the main gear shaft.
.......A similar incident occurred in Nov 1971, when naval reservist James Field caused one hundred thousand dollars damage to the USS Chilton......
......The level of sabotage grew steadily during 1972.........the situation suddenly reached crisis proportions in July of 1972......when, within the space of just three weeks, two of the Navy's aircraft carriers were put out of commission by attacks from within. [USS Forrestal and USS Ranger.] Just days before the [Ranger's] scheduled departure for Viet Nam, a paint scraper and two twelve-inch bolts were inserted into the the number-four-engine reduction gears, causing nearly $1 million damage and FORCING A THREE-AND-A-HALF-MONTH DELAY IN OPERATIONS for extensive repairs.
........various other types of equipment had disappeared over the side.........
they documented over two dozen instances of willful destruction during May and June alone.......

and so on and so forth and so on and so forth.

DON'T LET YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS BE SITTING DUCKS, HELPLESS VICTIMS AND CANNON FODDER FOR INSANE BUSHCO!!!!!!!!!
DON'T PRETEND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!

TELL ANY MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY IN ANY SERVICE OR CAPACITY. TELL THEM. TELL THEM TO TELL OTHERS. TELL ANY PERSON CONTEMPLATING JOINING THE MILITARY FOR ANY REASON.

Tell them, also, about the HEROIC SABOTEURS DURING THE VIET NAM WAR; and that there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON THEY CAN'T DO THE SAME THING IN THE NAVY IN THIS DECADE. To BLOCK the possibility of war with IraN!!!
{Well, the Navy has cameras in place now to guard its equipment. But, intelligent men and intelligent women can think of ways around that, too...........}
Now that there is a WARNING, a year "old" or not, will they just be allowed to GO STUPIDLY TO THEIR FATE????????

 

Ali Hirst (286)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 2:28 am
Yes I wouldn't trust Bush as far as I could throw him...just wish I could throw him a missile
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 3:37 am
Thanks, BMutiny. I just ordered "Soldiers in Revolt." I've been reading so many seriously depressing books lately, it is about time I got one guaranteed to cheer me up.

Seems to me I recall the USS Enterprise running aground off Alameda years ago. No sabotage involved, just incompetence, if I remember right.
 

Susan H. (27)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 4:17 am
Noted, but.... this is a very very old "theory" they had a year ago, and I heard it then. I am very skeptical on this, very. And not because
the government wouldn't risk lives for something, but because the Enterprise is A VERY very expensive ship. I wouldn't be too worried over this one.
 

Tsandi Crew (95)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 5:35 am
Where are the Aliens when you want them....couldn't they just abduct the leaders of the world and leave the rest of us to get along?

If not, I WANT OFF THE PLANET! This is too scary. The Shrub is upset because the Democrats in congress won't vote for his attorney general....so he's throwing a tantrum.....he's vetoing everything, and now he's going to have his way again like a the spoiled child that he is.....

SOMeBODY PLEASE..Stand this child in the corner for a year! The household won't survive his willfulness!

I pray this article isn't so.
 

Joycey B. (750)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 5:59 am
Noted. Thanks Cate.
 

Alf I. (246)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 9:05 am
It could be a false flag for another false flag LOL. Seeing as this info has been exposed and the attention is on this ship maybe they're planning something else and worse. They have to do SOMETHING to start the war with Iran. What will it be though??
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (464)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 12:09 pm
David Vickrey posted this:
"Many years ago I was a college student in Boston, afraid of the military draft and full of rage at a war that had already killed too many young men of my generation. At an anti-war demonstration a young Vietnam vet running for office stood up and spoke to the crowd about his war experience and the need for change. At the end of his speech he recited the following poem:

GENERAL, YOUR TANK IS A POWERFUL VEHICLE
It smashes down forests and crushes a hundred men.
But it has one defect:
It needs a driver.

General, your bomber is powerful.
It flies faster than a storm and carries more than an elephant.
But it has one defect:
It needs a mechanic.

General, man is very useful.
He can fly and he can kill.
But he has one defect:
He can think.

The young veteran was John Kerry."

 

O O O. (139)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 1:48 pm
This one may be,but since not all wars are wrong,Kerry is not proper person for President.
 

Kari D. (192)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 1:54 pm
Noted :-(
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 3:38 pm
Angel H. wrote: "...And not because the government wouldn't risk lives for something, but because the Enterprise is A VERY very expensive ship. I wouldn't be too worried over this one."

I guess you've never worked for the military-industrial complex, Angel, or been "on the gravy train" as defense workers call their employment. The whole idea is to destroy as many ships, planes, tanks, bombs, and guns as possible, so that you can get contracts to build new ones. The Enterprise could be replaced by newer ships, but it is difficult to get Congress to appropriate the money when the old ones are still afloat.

The military-industrial complex does not operate from a conservation or humanitarian ethos, it operates strictly on a profit motive. If there is more money to be gained by destroying the Enterprise than by keeping it afloat, it is likely to be destroyed. In the case of the World Trade Center in New York, it was fully ensured, but it was also riddled with asbestos that would have cost a fortune to remove, so there was more profit in destroying in than in letting it remain standing. If destruction for profit can be blamed on somebody else, what is commonly known as a "false-flag operation," it then gives the military-industrial complex more contracts to wage war on whatever patsy it was blamed on. Billions in profits were made on the destruction of the WTC on 9/11, and then trillions more were made from the subsequent wars waged on countries that had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

The covert side of the war business is often complex, but can still be best understood by following the money and asking who benefits, or as the lawyers say in Latin, cui bono?

 

Cris c. (175)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 5:26 pm
noted
 

Carol W. (119)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 6:55 pm

a fitting parody:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/48671/bush_speech/


 

Marie A. (35)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 9:42 pm
They are going for global domination... These guys don't care about anything besides their own agenda. I find this disturbing but I am not surprise at all. God help us all!
 

Marina L. (137)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 11:16 pm
People Power can stop this..... Please, American citizens need to start writing emails/letters and bombard your government reps..... don't give up.... please.
 

serge vrabec (280)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 11:29 pm
Martin K.- I appreciate your words and advice because i know that you truly believe your words-so i can respect and listen to an intelligible comment these days.
I'm not big on religion and have not gone to church every 7th day for long time. I try my best to help in the battle for the planet environmentally and to end suffering for animals. Call it what you will but i have beared witness to humans being hurt badly and have stood idle, It is impossible for me to see an animal, any animal, even ones i think i dont like and stand idle. religion, God(notice the capital form my catholic upbringing) jesus , Mohammed, buddha, big questions for humanity in a "civilised" and "cultured" world. Not many historians that can vouch for jesuses incarnation and empowerment of the Christian, cathoilc , whatever God.A surprise?, not for me just like the missing "watergate tapes" and Jimmy Hoffa's body, and other historical(thousands)questions with evidence that has conveniently disappeared. I'm sure in 1000-2000 years it will say that Bush found the weapons of mass destruction and saved the world.Those historians in a 1000 years might not find the destroyed evidence of events that are not beneficial to the current powers that be. Murdoch, cnn, msnbc have always been here and always will. its only been approx. 50 yrs. since the world has been able to communicat e any event globally, they are just mastering this great tool of deception of late, and they already have swayed and brainwashed the masses expediantly compared to history. They have been trying to get rid of great masters that appeared to help this planet evolve for milleniums and have suceeded in that pursuit to a great degree QUICKLY in the time frame of this "great Technology" that is supposed to help the planet evolve perfection and "Nirvana".
We have entered a time of logic and reasoning with a reason, sure, anyone with a B college education can reason away all religion and religous leaders and miracles of the past with a certainty that in the past was seen only in the "King's Fool, granted an industrious and creative one.

"By doubting we all come at truth." - Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 B.C.) Roman Statesman, Philosopher and Orator

=
"To pretend to know when you do not know is a disease."- Lao-Tzu [Li Erh] (570-490 BC) 'Old Sage', Father of Taoism

The bible is a lengthy "work"no doubt .And i'm sure back then that a huge propaganda tool was a lengthy painstakenly written book or decree,etc. , that obviously doesn't work anymore, I.E.-we now have , bad education, economics, too many countries and too many people(?),etc.Back to my point:
LOGIC, LOGIC,LOGIC
 

serge vrabec (280)
Sunday November 4, 2007, 11:34 pm
I lost the whole last part of my longest comment by far, ever, too bad it was good too.Real good .
 

Michael Sandstrom (306)
Monday November 5, 2007, 12:15 am
It may be time.... 1776 all over again......
FYI

Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The questing before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free-- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable ¬ and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace ¬ but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
 

serge vrabec (280)
Monday November 5, 2007, 12:31 am
Very strange that i am writing to you Martin and the same thing that happened to you happened to me, point taken i guess. I'm going to attempt to rewrite it but i was on a roll six minutes ago, lol.

LOGIC, LOGIC,LOGIC,and of course reasoning.2+2=4 and 3x6=18. But sometimes 3+3 doesn't equal six and 9+1+1 doesn't equal 11. Some call it magic, mysticism, the unknown,etc., etc., it is the mystery of faith that keeps the balance of the planet, that keeps the evil at bay., That sets the minds of men and women at ease., as history has shown. We must live within our hearts to acheive great truths and understanding, Faith and unconditional LOVE is what rules our universe and our hearts, forget about our heads in matters of divine concern.
I don't know if Jesus or whoever or whatever God will come back, I do know that i will not listen to scholars, geniuses,false prophets, rulers,etc. that seem to have the answers to things that cannot be explained in any Earthly manner. We must listen to our hearts.You could be Jesus for all we know and don't know Martin."I see men ordinarily more eager to discover a reason for things than to find out whether things are so." - Michel De Montaigne (1532-1592) French Renaissance scholar, philosopher, writer
we must not forget that anything is possible, really it is. That is the mystery of faith, a "law" that has acheived love and peace in many a hearts and will continue to do so for eternity.
I wish this last part wasn't erased , its not what it was before,apologies.
So i found the page from before. I opened up the bible to a random page and looked and it said: That the generation to comemight know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children; That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of GOD, but keep his commandments: And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn a rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not steadfast with God.
Thats what i read when i opened it up randomly, i swear to God. -Psalms 78-6-8
I,m tired and a little upset that i lost those words.

Peace and Love to all faiths and un-faiths.

"Just another night"- Mick Jagger-Rolling Stones
 

Ali Hirst (286)
Monday November 5, 2007, 12:39 am
Serge and anyone else who has had trouble posting here..hit refresh or F5 a couple of times and you will see your message..eventually...sometimes I think it is being READ before it is posted...to be sure we are not posting something that Bushco would not like us to write for the World to see. Another tip is to put it in word or notepad, whichever you have and copy and paste it...that way you have a backup instead of having to re=write if it does go AWOL
 

Ali Hirst (286)
Monday November 5, 2007, 12:44 am
Kuntt Lips..did you stowaway on the airforce plane that bought Maggie in to California on Friday...I notice you are saying you are from Anchorage AK....strange? And QUIT BEING RUDE TO CATE PLEASE!!!!. Now I have asked you nicely....can you go back to Anchorage on a commercial flight, and don't post on our news unless you are going to be nice. FLAGGED 2 news posts with the same reply so far.
 

serge vrabec (280)
Monday November 5, 2007, 12:46 am
And by the way K-lips, you should really mind your manners and demeanor when you address a well respected and wonderful lady like Cate in the future, maybe be a little more concerned about how your house is built or not built . I wish you great luck in re-educated youself in proper etiquette and mannerisms in the presence of ladys. Good evening .
 

serge vrabec (280)
Monday November 5, 2007, 12:55 am
LOL< and thx Ali
 

Carol W. (119)
Monday November 5, 2007, 6:14 am
What GB knows about light bulb or energy...
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/553039/whats_wrong_with_bush/
important must see ....very brief...
 

John Blalock (48)
Tuesday November 6, 2007, 3:29 am
They did 911.
 

Lisa Germain (60)
Tuesday November 6, 2007, 1:06 pm
noted thanks cate.
lisa
 

Dianne G. (95)
Friday November 9, 2007, 6:55 pm
They want to make it as difficult as possible for the next President! The believe that will take the blame off of them for this big mess we have!
They could care less what happens to us! And, the same goes for high
gas prices...let's get all the money we can before we get out, and screw the people - who cares?
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday November 11, 2007, 12:18 pm
noted, thanks cate
 

Teresa del Castillo (1519)
Monday December 3, 2007, 8:09 am
noted
 
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