Friday September 26, 2008, 3:57 am
Barney Frank says < HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/25/AR2008092500268_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2008092600233">"the primary remaining point of contention between Democrats and Republicans is a proposal to give bankruptcy judges new power to modify mortgages for troubled homeowners, an idea that is widely viewed as a bargaining chip. Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) has said the provision, which is fiercely opposed by the banking industry, should not be included in the bill." In other words, the Repubs in revolt want more protections for the taxpayers, and Obama thinks we the people should rescue the banks. What's wrong with this picture?

Friday September 26, 2008, 3:58 am
Barney Frank says "the primary remaining point of contention between Democrats and Republicans is a proposal to give bankruptcy judges new power to modify mortgages for troubled homeowners, an idea that is widely viewed as a bargaining chip. Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) has said the provision, which is fiercely opposed by the banking industry, should not be included in the bill." In other words, the Repubs in revolt want more protections for the taxpayers, and Obama thinks we the people should rescue the banks. What's wrong with this picture?

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:04 am
Meanwhile, House Democrats said they were still considering a separate plan to increase taxes to pay for a portion of the bailout, possibly by taxing stock transfers or levying a "surtax" on millionaires. But Democrats had agreed that any tax increase would not be included in the bailout bill.

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:06 am
Washington Mutual Collapses; McCain Destroys Bailout Deal

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:10 am
McCain had nothing to do with it....THAT'S propaganda. A separate conclave of House Republicans convened and decided the announced bailout agreement sucked - and it does.

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:31 am
You can't sit on two sides of a fence, folks - if you oppose the bailout but want to "blame" McCain for derailing it, where are you sitting?

I don't care WHO or WHAT PARTY put a stick between the wheels - I'm glad that these Fools on the Hill are being forced to re-examine what they're rushing so quickly to do. I don't want an Iraq-war style solution to the economic mess we're in. I'd like some academic economists included in the planning and review. ANYTHING that makes the banking industry unhappy is GOOD NEWS for us, the taxpayers. Every single news show I watched last night had business and economic analysts weighing in against the GREAT BIG RUSH to put a fix in place. That alone should tell you that the banking and Wall Street friends of politicians just want OUT NOW and want to walk away with a pile of money supplied by US!

Has anyone told US what the supposed revised plan contained? Were there hard facts and figures disclosed to the American people? NO!

Don't you think there SHOULD BE?

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:32 am
Dear Cate you will never hear the truth from politicians or bankers....

I just hear on the television that bankers must be greedy and that the supervision has failed now who is responsable for the supervision...

Bush had a plan...thats what they are just discussing here on dutch television!

Not some kind of small station no, one of the biggest stations....

So why cannot the american people figure this plan out........???????

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:41 am
Dodd: Bailout meeting 'a disaster' Sen. Dodd: Negotiation "looked like a rescue plan for John McCain."

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:42 am
Political posturing, for which there is absolutely no room in this financial mess.

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:44 am
Cate ... I've talked to friends and family members working on the trading desks on Wall St. and the "emergency" is such that if our economy fails it will make 1929 look like a 4th of July picnic; you'll be able to use $100 bills for dinner napkins because that's all they'll be good for, oh, and the bread lines and no jobs.

WaMu couldn't hang on one more day ... and there are 17 more banks on the Fed's list.

So people can "hold out" with their stubborness an their anger and their bitterness ... or they can take a look at the istuation as it really is, not as they want it to be.

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:46 am
A great link sent to me by Suruna: The Insanity of the $700 Billion Giveaway Read...

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:48 am
Looking at the situation as it really is doesn't mean running in to embrace the first, second or maybe even third thing on the table. If the Hill hadn't rushed to judgment on the Iraq War, maybe those 4000+ servicemen and women, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, would be alive today.

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:50 am

Central Banks Step in as Bail-Out Fears Mount

The Bank of England moved to inject longer term cash into money markets as part of a co-ordinated effort with the US Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the Swiss National Bank, following the breakdown of talks over a $700bn bail-out for the US...

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:51 am
Good....international banking consortia helped create this mess, they stand to benefit from a bailout, so they SHOULD get their financial feet wet.

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:54 am
Politically-Unaffiliated Economists Repudiate Paulson's Plan - 200 Sign Petition Against It

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:54 am

Stopping a Financial Crisis, the Swedish Way

When they faced a financial crisis similar to the United States' in the early 1990s, Sweden took equity in the banks to protect taxpayers.

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:55 am
Good for Sweden - I bet the Swedish people didn't PAY for it!

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:56 am
Hans, my dear, I would love you to try to discuss ANYTHING of substance with the people around me. They don't REALLY want know, many of them believe there is nothing they can do. The elections here are more like a giant football game - fans facing off with their respective props and catch phrases.

That is why I am happy to be in cyber-space with all of you.

Democracy Now! reported, as your Dutch TV, that this "bail-out" plan was concocted at least a month or two ago.

Cate, you're right to caution us to not get distracted from the central issue: doing whatever REALLY needs to be done with the LEAST risk and expense to the citizens of this country. Frankly, I don't see this happening with Paulson at the helm.

And, once again, I say that the "Section 8" clause of the proposal, which negates any accountability or review for any actions taken by the Treasury Dept., is DANGEROUS.

Gosh, I wish I could see a picture of Paulson kneeling before Pelosi....

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:57 am
I want to see in black & white what kind of "cap" is planned for the big rich honchos who started this mess - IMHO they should get NOTHING except booted out the door. I want to see in black & white how much our taxes will rise by blowing $700B. I want to see what kind of stake the government will get by investing in saving these irresponsible and quite possibly fraudulent companies. Don't you? I am not for buying a pig in a poke.

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:59 am
Me too, Pamylle, as she says to him, "I didn't know you were Catholic." A priceless moment, to be sure! LOL

Friday September 26, 2008, 5:00 am
Mother Jones: Where Credit is Due: A Timeline of the Mortgage Crisis

Friday September 26, 2008, 5:01 am
I meant to include this with the link to Mother Jones: A field guide to the loan sharks and politicos who got us into the predatory lending mess

Friday September 26, 2008, 5:06 am
This mess didn't happen overnight..there are no quick, painless corrections . I want to know what the PLAN of action is, with a full description ....Fools rush in...and hell yes, the last knee jerk reaction has taken tens of thousands of lives and still ongoing.
Besides with this latest smoke screen everyone is running from the sky falling...and rightful so...however meanwhile those trying to put themselves on the throne are pushing forward with their agendas...anti-abortion, anti-homosexual,anti-gun control,anti-enviroment..less freedom of speech, less unbiased news reports. We're losing too much already...they'd better take their time with this one..not willing to lose my pants too !

Friday September 26, 2008, 5:41 am
Politics in the Zeros: Spread the meme. Republicans are the party that wrecked America. John McCain’s long history with bank failures and financial scandals makes him uniquely ‘qualified’ to speak to the current crisis.

The next time a Republican friend says McCain is ready to Regulate the financial world... Refer them to ProgressiveAccounting.org
for a really long list of all the DEREGULATION McCain has supported over the past 26 years to get us into this mess.

Then suggest a vote for Obama.

Friday September 26, 2008, 5:44 am
Henry Paulson kneeling before Nancy Pelosi,OH BABY HE SHOULD HAVE KNEEL DOWN TO PRAY.He would have got a better answer! The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles,I need a very strong drink after reading this news, bring me my pot of black coffee ,Dear! no cream ! thanks. noted !

Friday September 26, 2008, 6:02 am
I am just disgusted with all of it. Thanks Cate.

Friday September 26, 2008, 6:12 am
ty noted

Friday September 26, 2008, 6:36 am
noted sadly that we cannot have honesty & integrity in our government. What happened to transparency?

Friday September 26, 2008, 6:58 am
the word on the street is that the whole thing should fall-that is the consequences of the people I have been hearing talk about it and surprisingly enough it is among the eldest generation that supports it the most I have heard 50 out of 50 republicans and democrats alike state this in the last 2 days-I am in agreement let it fall Bush is worried he will be like the rest of us broke with no money for it is the fuel prices and the war.that have wrecked this country finances let those institutions fall and whatever happens after that will be a new beginning-will it get bad -has the potential to be horrible but even if they bailed them out it is only a band aid soluton that will not stave off the ineveitable.

Friday September 26, 2008, 6:59 am
The country I want to live in is on another Planet. Where barter is defined as trade, and trade agreements are between two people bartering. When the Bankamericard came out in the 60's I decided I never wanted to have credit. I always wanted to pay cash. Maybe credit for a house. I've always managed to save up enough to pay cash for my cars and I pay as I go for everything else. I can't tell you how glad I am that I don't have any credit card debt, or that I rely on a bank for credit. IT'S WHAT STARTED THIS MESS! No one owns anything!

Friday September 26, 2008, 7:18 am
Sadly, we are in a huge scary mess that we, the little people, can do nothing about. I totally agree with Lady Gayle. Honesty, integrity and transparency are gone from our government.

Friday September 26, 2008, 9:35 am
I read in the New York Times this morning that it was John Boehner who glitched the negotians by suddenly declaring he will not support the bailout plan the way it is. John McCain remained silent on the issue and didn't take a stand.
Barney Frank said he didn't know he was going to be a referee at the bailout talks that collapsed in a very short time. Both parties are blaming the other for the stalled talks.
But what all this really comes down to is: Taxation Without Representation. When King George III declared that the colonies were self sufficient he imposed more taxes on the colonies. The real revolt came when two new taxes were imposed by the King. One for stamps, known as the Stamp Act, and the second one, which through the city of Boston over the edge, and that was a tax on Tea, which brought about the Boston Tea Party. Since the colonists were no longer being represnted by the Crown, and were still taxed they revolted. What we are seeing now across the country is impromptu protests against the bailout plan. Protests have been reported all over the country, with a major protest in Seattle, Washington, and in New York, Boston and many other cities. The people are finally waking up and doing what we should have been ever since Bush stole the election in 2000. But we did nothing and sat idly by, and we allowed the government to contoll us rather than we who should control the government. We have allowed this corrupt regime walk all over us, and now that folks are worried that their 401-Ks, and retirement benefits might bite the dust in the futurre they're taking action and signing petitions everwhere you turn, and they're now writting their Reps. in Congress. I was watching The Situation Room briefly last night, and Jack Cafferty said he had received about 10,000 e-mails by angry people who don't want to see Wall Steet bailed out.
The NYT also reportd that Henry Paulson got down on one kneww and begges Nanci Pelosi not to kill the deal. Her reply was sarcastic. She siad, "I didn't know you were Catholic, and it's not the Democrats who derailed the talks it was the Republicans." Paulson then said, "I know I know." I have posted the NYT article on C2NN and you can read the full story there. I have more NYT stories to post. McCain said he will attend tonights debate.

Friday September 26, 2008, 10:02 am
This IS the NY Times article, Stephen...LOL...

Friday September 26, 2008, 12:11 pm
WooHoo!

Friday September 26, 2008, 12:12 pm
Forgot, I got so excited.

Love the pic! People protesting in the streets. Wish I could be there. It doesn't get better than this!

Friday September 26, 2008, 1:33 pm
You know, this bailout agreement has to be made, otherwise the global economy will probably suffer its toughest blow!! I don't like the fact that these bankers and CEOs will be saved and their mess cleaned up either, but it has to be done.
Can you imagine what would happen if the US government allowed all the companies that are on the edge of bankruptcy go down? Millions would lose their jobs in the US alone! It would be catastrophic worldwide!

Besides it were you Americans who screwed up, so clean it up! It´s not the rest of the world's fault that you elected bush the imbecile, therefore it's unfair we should suffer due to your greed and lack of judgement!!
And you haven't learned your lesson yet because you are still considering electing the second version of bush - maccain!!
Thus, just shut up and clean up your mess! The rest of the world is sick and tired of having this friend who is a bully (USA) and who only gets the rest of us in trouble!!!

Assume your responsibilities! It's not only dictating world rules you know? It's also taking responsibility for your mistakes!!

Friday September 26, 2008, 1:50 pm
I did not vote for bush noted thank you

Friday September 26, 2008, 2:13 pm
From what Ive read Mc$ame had absolutely NOTHING to say Or DO about the Bailout - HE WAS USELESS. But since he couldn't Force his rowdy RepubliCONs into actually helping "get 'er done".. he's even LE$$ of a Leader than Bu$h - sickening!

Friday September 26, 2008, 2:22 pm
I don't know where you got your information Cate but from what I read on Obama's site and what I also read in the media's reports which says the same as Obama's site .He opposes any bailout that doesn't protect the tax payers and he asks that we be paid back when the markets start making profits .I read nothing that said Obama is for agreeing to a plan that has no protection for the tax payer and doesn't repay the debt back.
Now maybe they did concede on that one condition about the bankruptcys and homeowners mortages but surely you didn't expect that the Republican's wouldn't get something in order for them to vote on this bail out did you ?

Personally I think they should forget about a bailout and look back in history to the great depression when they struggled for about a decade trying to right the economy and only when they liquidated did the economy right itself. The same could work now without a bailout !

Friday September 26, 2008, 2:39 pm
This bailout is the lipstick on a pig.
It's an outrage and an insult to the American people!
Before bailing out the banks on Wall Street,
Congress needs to bail out the people on MAIN STREET!,
who are about to be foreclosed on!
To hell with the Wall Street bankers,
it's Middle America that needs the bailout!
Thanks, Cate.
noted angrily :-((

Friday September 26, 2008, 2:53 pm
China has stopped lending to US banks.. See another Care2 news article about that. If the rest of the world follows and stops buying Treasuries, the troops will be home VERY SOON, as that is what is driving the Iraq war... A collapse might be just what we need.

Also, plese note the following; if we handed out $400,000 GRANT to each adult, that would total only $80 Billion dollars. Let the large monopolistic corporations fail, and start over fresh with small companies. Why not bail US OUT, instead of the corrupt corporations?

http://www.care2.com/news/member/979852695/891381

Friday September 26, 2008, 2:54 pm
Yea! Tim! Where have you been, I missed you.

What's up with the republicans being on the side of the peopled? I swear it's a cold day in hell!

Friday September 26, 2008, 4:47 pm
Folks, the trouble is, we have a situation that is all "smoke and mirrors".

....we have a corrupt banking system, and a privately owned FED that prints money, without any backing or substance....in other words-out of thin air, then you the taxpayer pay interest on this.....real money..This is Noddy land.We have real money earned by your labor or enterprise, they "create" money using a printing press...they do it , it is "legal" you do it and you would go to jail.
Then our banks operate on the "Fractional Reserve Banking Scam", in other words, they can legally lend out 10 times the amount of $$ they have deposited...this money is "created" too in their computers. The banks should be rolling in cash. But when there is a run on the bank, incompetently or corruptly dispose of the profits, they cannot raise the cash, and down they go.
You are being asked to prop up a corrupt system of banking that is benefiting a very few people, but IS being used against the ordinary person in the street.....and you are asked to give to the poor obscenely rich...The GREAT DEPRESSION WAS "CREATED" , I have a strong belief, so is this situation......
The world needs to go back to a system of banking that has a commodity to back it....silver gold etc. This gives stability and security for the future....and less opportunity to manipulate.
Finally, this scenario has been in the wind for more than 3 years...those in the "know" have their cash reserves in Euros..we even heard of it in Australia...........When you hear about the plans for the Amero to be implemented, and how the $US IS planned to collapse, I wonder, have the string pullers in the background got plans to have 2 bites of the financial apple....perhaps we may learn, "greed is not good"Are you going to be "slaves "to a debt that will be be paid by generations to come???????????????????????????????????

1. the bail out...$600 then 700 then 800 then????Billion....appears open ended...
2 the collapse of the $US...I have heard that you may only get 4-7 cents to the Amero. but bet your boots....the full debts will still be payable by the ordinary man and woman of America. Your government seems to have more interest in looking after the rich, rather than the poor.

Think very seriously about this bailout...you will only be putting off the financial pain until a later day.What other dodgy plans has your present government got in store....using the military to subvert the people?????????????????
The banking system has failed, that is what needs fixing.....

Your government has failed you the people.

...you have toooooo many shadowy figures in the background......honesty and integrity appear to be a very scarce commodity in government........everybody seems to have deep pockets (full of unearned taxpayers dollars).
SANITY, and CAREFUL planning is needed here.

Friday September 26, 2008, 5:16 pm
How about bailing the people of this country out first?!

Friday September 26, 2008, 5:23 pm
Cate wrote: "Political posturing, for which there is absolutely no room in this financial mess."


McCain Campaign Declares: McCain Wins Debate. WHAT!? By
Obama Soldier 26 Sep 2008 So, Remember, how until today 11 am ET, McCain was not going to Debate until the deal went through? Well, if you needed more proof of this blatant political stunt, McCain campaign has web ads out saying he has won the Debate...BEFORE the debate has even happened.

So:

1.) McCain planned to attend the Debate all along.

2.) McCain pulled his stunt not only for Political Reasons but because his Campaign was going to the sh*tter.

3.) He took the MSM narrative away form the dreadful Palin-Couric interview and from the ties of Rick Davis (his campaign manager) to Fannie and Freddie Mac...

Friday September 26, 2008, 5:29 pm
How come nobody stooped to the gutter and blamed the Creationists for this financial problem? After all is said and done, don't most of these leaders claim to be Creationists? Surely someone must have noted it along the way!
Or just maybe everyone used their grey matter a bit better and realised that people and politicians will say anything that will gain them votes. Whether they believe or more to the point actually follow and live their so called belief will always be evidenced by the fruit of their results and character.
It should be obvious to even "intelligent" evolutionists that God really has nothing to do with the stupidity of these people who are passing themselves off as "Christians". Counterfeits.
Two people were talking together one day, an Evolutionist and a Christian. I will call them Evol and Chris.
Chris says to Evol. Hey Evol, have you ever heard of a counterfeit $100 bill?
Evol says sarcastically, Stupid question, everyone has heard of counterfeit bank notes, Why do you ask such a stupid question?
Chris says, Why do you think they counterfeited the notes?
Evol says, Stupid question, because it was worth counterfeiting!

Chris asks his next question. Hey Evol, have you ever seen a counterfeit Christian?
There's millions of them you dummy says Evol. (He could have mentioned Bush and Pallin but chose to hold this obvious evidence for a later thrust at his stupid friend)
Chris pushes his point, Why do you think there are counterfeit Christians?
BECAUSE THEY ARE WORTH COUNTERFEITING, gee you're stupid Chris. Evol was getting fed up with this stupid questioning from his obviously unintelligent friend

I was just wondering Evol, have you ever met a counterfeit evolutionist?
Evol was quick on that one with, OF course not! there are NO counterfeit evolutionists.

Maybe they aren't worth counterfeiting but Christianity is. I think the pollies prove that.

They put God out of the schools, They put the ten commandments out of the public places and now they want to blame God for the mess we are in. Well, there are many counterfeit gods. Everyone who would put themselves above God by saying He does not exist. Well? Aren't they?

Friday September 26, 2008, 6:38 pm
Noted with great concern for the American citizens from my home here in Australia.

Selfishness, greed and corruption by many with bank balances as large as their egos, who think that the hard working taxpayer should be accountable for their incompetence and wrong doing.

Friday September 26, 2008, 10:41 pm
This shouldn't be of any surprise to anyone who knows Sen. Obama's history and past actions...

Christopher Dodd & Barack Obama are the Chief Fannie Fister of the current Democratic Senate!

Christopher Dodd, Barack Obama, Barney Frank, Jim Johnson & Franklin D Raines are THE FANNIE FISTING FIVE !!!

THEY ARE WRIST-DEEP IN THIS FANNIE FISTING SCANDAL!!

Saturday September 27, 2008, 5:32 am
i like tim's lipstick on a pig remark... it fits this mess very well... noted...ty...:)

Saturday September 27, 2008, 4:35 pm
The crisis explained

Joe goes to the track and bets $2 on a horse.

Two guys standing nearby get into a discussion and Fred says to Sam, “I’ll bet you $5 that Joe wins his bet.”

Next to them are Bill and Bob. Bill says: “I’ll bet you $10 that Fred welshes on his bet if he loses.”

Next to them is Sally. Sally says: “For $3 I’ll guarantee to Bill that if Bob fails to pay off, I’ll make good on the bet.”

Sally then goes to Mary and borrows the $7 needed in case she has to ever pay off and promises to pay back $8. She doesn’t expect to every have to pay since she believes Bob will always make good. So she expects to net $2 no matter what happens to Joe.

A quick calculation indicates that there is now 2+5+10+3+7 = $27 riding on the outcome of the horse race.

Question how much has been “invested” in the horse race?

Wait for it:

Answer:

$50,000 by the owner of the horse who is expecting to recoup his investment from the winnings of the horse and other future deals. Everyone else is gambling, not investing.

So, when Hank Paulson and his golfing buddies go to the track and lose the rent money playing the ponies, we should pay up?

http://www.correntewire.com/the_crisis_explained

That's perfect
and it’s not even an analogy - it’s exactly how derivitives and credit default swaps work, including none of the gamblers having any financial relationship to the underlying asset (the horse, or mortgages) in a lot of cases.

Saturday September 27, 2008, 5:29 pm
Let's face it, wonderful Care2 friends, we will never know the truth about the collapse. As somebody said above, "shadowy figures". For too long investment bankers were making a fortune EVERY DAY, beefing up their "golden parachutes (media term, NBC I think). For too long, poor people were signing loans for $100,000 houses. The house of cards has fallen! As the cards fell, it became obvious there was no money behind it all, just paper and dreams. I really have no stand on this bailout; I'd like more evidence one way or the other. Thanks, Cate for post, and hello! Tim. You're like a ghost, floating in and out of Care2.

Saturday September 27, 2008, 7:22 pm
I'd actually like proof that there is a crisis, and the one thing I want off the table, if there is a bailout, is unlimited rights to the Sec. of the Treasury. That's just asinine. No rushing this thing, as far as I can tell, as long as there is an inkling of a fix in the works, things keep putting along just fine.

Actually, the best idea I heard was in another news post, from a Nobel Laureate in economics, that set up a special Chapter 11 for all the mortgage failures. Everything gets rewritten, the banks get their money, the people keep their homes. No need for a bail out. Unfortunately, it's way to simple for Washington!

Sunday September 28, 2008, 11:52 am
Seems all my other posts weren't posted .Wonder why ? I guess some people think they can take away my right to free speach !