Monday September 28, 2009, 1:28 pm
The olkder I get the less I can tolerate mezat. But after seeing processed meats, sausage, weiners, and salami magnified by 400%, that was enuff to make me never eat processed meat again. In a word or 2 YUCK, GROSS to start with.

Monday September 28, 2009, 3:09 pm
someone in the vegan community needs to come up with some short bullet points or a quick explanation for what veganism is. Reading the attached article takes too much time, they should break it down for you in the beginning and then get into the details. People get overwhelmed. Give me stats on industrialized farming compared to how that land could be used. It's hard for me to give up my beef, eggs, cheese and milk, so you gotta play to my short attention span. The picture of the pig in the cage got me off ham for 6 months. It's so hard to quit! Please help me! :) LOL:) No, I know this is a serious issue and I've had my head in the sand about farm animals. Keep slamming the knowledge in our faces till we can't deny it.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 1:20 am
Noted. Thanks

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 3:49 am
I say to friends - "Do you know what happens to your meat before it ends up on your plate" I surely dont spare no detail!

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 7:19 am
Excellent article on this difficult to explain subject ! Truth is stranger than fiction or "meat" the truth.
Thank you so much Simone

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 8:42 am
I whole heartily agree with "freedom of speech"! However I am surprised that Care2 allows the use of the "S" word in the story! Thanx Simone.

cowboss

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 8:43 am
I am glad I am almost a vegetarian. I try to have scruples for all animals involved in food production. I and pleased with this articles and thank you Simone.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 12:32 pm
Thanks Simone

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 12:39 pm
Thanks dear Simone

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 1:31 pm
What about the secret life of plants? Plants are alive and respond to their enviorment just like animals do. These animals would never have existed if they were not raised for the purpose of food. What will happen to all the livestock if nobody eats them anymore? They don't make good pets.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 1:37 pm
Actually Jamie they do make good pets. I have had over the years, pet lambs, calves and pigs.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 4:12 pm
If you want to be the strictest of vegans, Jamie, you should realize that a large percentage of the vegetables we eat are not actually killed. Their fruit is reaped, or picked up off the ground. When I had my vegetable garden, I would go out and pick the beans, peas, corn ears, etc., and while my family and I did eat these vegetables, the plants lived on, until their natural life span sent them back to Mother Earth. Oftentimes, if the fruit of the plant is not eaten, the seeds won't be scatters. Consider fruit trees: The apples, when ripe, fall from the tree, and they don't go far. They land right under the tree, where, if they were left there, they would rot, and the seeds, being in the shade of the tree and on top of the soil, would not grow into trees like the parent - and eventually, the species would die out.

But if an animal - say a wild pig - comes along and eats several of the apples, at least a few seeds would remain to be blown away by the wind. Or the pig defecates and some of the seeds get into the ground that way. So let's not second-guess Mother Earth and her way of allowing her species to survive.

I confess, I am not yet at the point where I can only eat fruits, or vegetables, that are the fruit of the tree. I still eat broccoli, and cauliflower, and other vegetables that need to be cut from the plant (Although, in my garden, the broccoli plants lived long enough to grow more of that very nourishing vegetable.) Someday, maybe I will. But I will continue to do the best I can, in view of deeply ingrained habits taught to me in childhood. If you are especially concerned about the feelings of plants, however, you can certainly make the choice to be what's often called a fruitarian. I've know a few - and they were beautiful and very healthy people! Think about it!

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 4:23 pm
I am asking the same question as Jamie "What will happen to all the livestock....." and Simone, what happened to the lambs, calves and pigs when they became sheep, cows/bulls and big pigs? With 72% of people living in apartments wrld-wide these days, it would be impossible to keep such animals. One needs a big property to house them. Are there enough such properties to do that? Would the owners of such properties be willing to utelise them to accommodate ALL that livestock?

That said, yes, it is terrible the way animals are treated in order to satisfy world demand for meat. However, meat has been the staple diet of humanity since the dawn of time and the way Vegans try to convert meat-eaters with their belligerent attitude - like calling them "corpse-munchers" and other such things, will NOT a convert make. Show us a better way as to what will happen to livestock if it is not consumed by meat-eaters. Where will all the animals go? Dying of old age, littering paddocks with dead, decaying corpses? Creating health hazzards? I'd really like to hear some sensible way as to how to deal with the billions of "meat animals" roaming the world today. In an effort to turn everyone into a vegan, does anyone think about this and come up with a viable solution....?

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 4:34 pm
This is a debate just like religion and politics....LOL and global warming to some oh and lets not forget horse slaugter....It is a no-win situation. And yes marena where are all the excess animals going to go???? People there has to be a balace here somewhere. Yes back in the day when there were not so many people and all the land wasnt so used up I would say set them all free....I still wanna say that but people nowdays do not have the means or the room to have many more on their lands more or less set them free. I have rid myself finally of meat but the question still remains what would you do with millions of cattle, pigs, sheep and chickens???? Think about it folks really think about it. Where are we going to get the land to put them all???? I dearly love my vegan friends and my vegitarian friends but the reality of it all stays the same...

Big Gorilly Hugs

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 4:37 pm
My animals stayed with me when they grew up Marena. Farm animals are breed in huge numbers for meat eaters, without that demand, certainly the numbers would not be high at all and would actually drop off to a large extent. The meat industry is the one demanding the high numbers of animals breed,no, there is no quick solution but I like to think that the cruelties inflicted against farm animals give some reason to question.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 4:43 pm
Simone there are still way too many at present to make that possiable. Then left to thier own devices they would breed upon their own. I do think we all know that you and I especially. We didnt breed just to breed but they still bred cause they were able too. Now if you are talking artificial insemination that is a whole diffrent story...Simone you and I both know left to their own devices they will breed just like rabbits. Not dissin...you know me but....there are no great options on this I hate to say. Trust me cattle or any other farmed animal doesnt deserve it never has but thing is how can we correct it without horrid complications???

Big Gorilly Hugs

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 4:49 pm
Got to think up something Gorilly, we have to.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 4:57 pm
I know sweetheart...If city folks (sorry guys) would quit moving to the countrysides and the citys would quit expanding out there might have been a chance to curb this. And yes the ranchers hogging all the land to thierselves...we possiably could work this out, sterlization would curb quite a bit. But is the forestry depts the land owners that keep us from really doing anything...Cattle dont deserve it none of the animals deserve it...I dont wanna eat them I want them to live. But I do know I wont call my meat eater friends horrid names and I would NEVER push then into being vegan. You have to want it. Not enough people in the world simone that understand this awkward position we are left in. Dont eat meat what do with exceess animals what a complexing delima we have....

At least you see and understand what I am talking about...

Goirlly

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 5:07 pm
Certainly do dear Gorilla. No, I have never tried to force my vegetarian ways onto anyone, and many of my beloved friends are meat eaters. But like you understand it is the cruelties inflicted that I will always object, get angry about. But thank you for understanding where I am coming from too, it is lovely to discuss matters intelligently and calmly.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 8:01 pm
From what you said about your animals Simone, can I presume you lived on a Farm? It sounds like a "free-ranging" place and must have been a wonderfull life. I can imagine the horror you felt when you first found out about the meat industry and the horrific cruelties committed against all those animals - I know I was. Until I came to care2, I had no idea what was being done to them. I have a little Banana grove in my (17,000 sq ft) garden, where two little "chickedees" live a happy life and reward me with their eggs every day. I rescued them from some americans who had bought them for their daughters for Easter about 3 years back. They were day-old fluffy little chicks dyed pink and blue respectively. When they started to grow feathers and were no longer "cute" they were destined for the pot. If I lived in an apartment, I could not have them nor my 37 cats. Space or available land ARE a big issue. However, cruelty for cruelty's sake (as in slaughter-houses and kill-shelters) is just unacceptable from a species that calls it's self "HUMAN"

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 8:02 pm
@Gorilly. Thank you for seeing my point.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 8:11 pm
Trust me I come from a family of ranchers...they were most humane...But I cannot account for what happend to the animals when they left our ranch. It was probably a big shock to them. Im sure that some of the horses of mine that got sold probably ended up at the slaughter houses (a horror I wish not to think about) It is a UGLY circle that keeps going round and round. Thing is simone we are quite alike in some ways...we are able to see both sides of the picture.....

Gorilly

Marena you know I always do...or if I dont you make it a point that I do...LOL

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 8:41 pm
I've written this once, and I'll say it again: I've read that many zoologists feel that a lot of the animals bred for food would eventually, within a few generations, revert to their wild state. The transition might not be easy, but when we consider that the fewer meat-eaters there are, the fewer animals will be bred for meat. The transition won't be easy, but in the long run it would be for the best. There's something wrong with the argument posed by Marena and others - that we have to keep eating these animals to justify their existence. They were around before the Ice Age, when human beings were forced to hunt to survive, and they'll be around again. They should be preserved because they are the children of the Earth just like us. They were NOT put here on the planet just so that human beings can torture and eat them.

Tuesday September 29, 2009, 9:39 pm
i think it's impossible to be passionate about any subject and not come off as a little preachy.

Wednesday September 30, 2009, 12:55 am
Mary D. Where exactly did I say, that "we have to keep eating these animals to justify their existence" or any thing remotely like it?

Fewer animals will be bred if humans stop breeding them for food? Please get REAL. Once the males and females have free access to each other, breeding will occur. No ifs or buts here.... It's the law of nature.....And letting them revert to their wild state? Please be realistic. Bovines, Pigs, Chickens etc running wild - breeding will get out of control - and if we humans have made natural predators extinct by then, I shudder to think of the rotting animal corpses littering the planet. Breeding and hatching is the natural instinct of animals whether in captivity or in the Wild. And what Zoologists "feel" isn't worth squat if they can't come up with some concrete facts and possible solutions. I'm always a bit leary of people who only talk - but have no facts to back up their talk....

Wednesday September 30, 2009, 11:36 am
Marena - Well, maybe that wasn't what you (but I was also referring to other people, so I might not actually have had only you in mind), but that certainly seemed to be the gist of it. Also, as far as reverting to their wild state goes. That quote was not from me. Unfortunately, I don't remember the author of the article's name (though it might have been John Robbins, I'm not sure). I don't have time to research every idea that others come up with, but this one made since to me. And I'm sure that quote was based on solid research. Where do YOU get the idea that it isn't valid? Maybe you're right. If you have facts to back up your ideas, fine. I'll be glad to read about them, and I'm sure that others will too.

There is a lot of undeveloped land in the US, in the Far West outside of the coastal areas. Why not give it back to the animals? Better than than more urban sprawl. The animals can breed, run, play, sleep, whatever, without any harassment from that very arrogant species called humanity. Better use it for that than for building more nuclear warheads.

Wednesday September 30, 2009, 11:39 am
It is rare that I come to Care 2 these days. It is wearisome to read comments that are: beligerent; prove it to me first before I experiment theme; short attention spans requesting others to utilize more of their intellect and time energies; poor reading comprehension by anglophones; and excuses that seem to have been dredged up from the bottom of self-limited imaginations.

I am veganlogical/ethical and arrived at this via reading books, articles; watching undercover videos; going to an abbatoir [slaughterhouse]; coming to terms with my hypocrisy [professing to myself that I cared about animals yet totally removed from that and what was on my food plate]; and finally listening to my heart.

I think this article is well-rounded and will use it as a reference.

Thursday October 1, 2009, 1:21 am
thanks for the great article and all the useful comments too

Sunday October 4, 2009, 12:40 am
Thanks Simone!

Did NOT read all of the great comments, read the article and it is SUCH A TERRIFIC ONE everyone should read this article!!! Used to eat meat, all the time, till I couldn't - long ago, but after seeing what I have here at Care2 and what these animals go though it just makes me ill to think I used to eat them.

Super News Article, thank you for this one, so happy I eat salad, but I am sure that it has some sort of bugs on it too!!!

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:40 pm
Marena (comment above) ought to be aware that if left to produce young "nature's way" -- or even kept away from the opposite sex, or neutered, there would not be the vast numbers of livestock-type animals around, needing care, in the unlikely scenario that folk stop eating them sometime soon. There are only such vast numbers of them because they are bred by artificial insemination, and made pregnant again as soon as they have produced offspring. So, No, there would not be a massive problem of the world drowning in a sea of sheep and cattle, if everyone became Vegan. To Marylin : Get the organic salad at places like Trader Joe's, and wash it.

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:44 pm
Thanks Susan...I always wash all of my lettuce, so much going on with E-coli and people think that the packaged salads are clean....NOPE get smart, I do have a lettuce spinner and have Shaklee Basic H that cleans all of my veggies, cause you don't what bird, animals are taking their time leaving all of their you know what on the land!!!

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:55 pm
Let me make myslef clear on one thing I DISSAPROVE OF SLAUGHTER HOUSES!!! And yes Susan they would breed as soon as they came back into heat just like they do on normal farms and ranches...Artificial Insemination is just a small part of the population, selective breeders use this Not your common rancher or farmer it isnt cost efficent to them. Not condoning the eating of meat it is just the way it is with some...Please tell me how in the world anyone could keep all the male animals away from the female ones??? It would be nearly impossiable. I have grown up on a ranch so dont tell me other wise or the ones that actually have cattle, horses, pigs, goats, chickens whatever left to their own devices YES they would breed and breed and breed. I dont have a problem with it. I have a problem with the humans that do this in excess.

Gorilly

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:56 pm
have we forgotten the vast herds of Buffalo that once roam the great plains my the millions.....

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 3:58 pm
And...Gorilly Girl, you are right on....we have lost way to much from GREED AND THE ALMIGHT $$$$ THIS IS INSANE!!!

Just had to get back to send you a green star on this one!!!!

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:04 pm
It is about the money...always has been. Even back in the day...I come from a history of ranchers Marilyn...we go a long ways back. I always cringed at the fact that our cattle were meant to go to slaughter...but there was nothing I could do about it. I would see the bullhaulers pull up and I would just leave. Ranch is still there but not the same as she once was. Barren...finally a place I like to go and visit now. She is a horse ranch now...grandpa nolonger raises cattle on that type of scale.

Big Gorilly Hugs

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:08 pm
Well Gorilly Girl (boy do I feel stupid typing that one in!!)

My parents were both farmers, I still remember my Grandfather with his cow, pigs and corn etc...in fact, when he died he only had stumps for fingers...It was a small farm in Iowa, not like these factory farms now, with these stupid things happening to these animals, but I am old enough to remember these older days of what was good and in Harmony!!!

Wednesday October 7, 2009, 4:09 pm
OOPS, not my parents as Farmers, but, my grandparents on one of my parents side!!!