Monday November 19, 2012, 8:47 am
I have waited to write on the latest Middle East conflict, until I had a better understanding of what actually happened. Ahmed Jabari, a Hamas leader and former terrorist, was working to stop the occasional rocket attacks against Israel. Israel targeted him for assassination, and killed him in an air attack. Palestine reacted with increased rocket attacks against Israel, and the conflict escalated from there.
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:10 am
I no longer believe it's possible to know the absolute truth about what's happening between Israel and its neighbors. There's too much hatred and outright duplicity...the result of many years' harassment of the Israelis and generations of children born, raised and fed on mutual hatred.
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:35 am
May God bless and protect all those working for peace on both sides - they are heroically brave and must be 'as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves' - how to work through the many layers of so many wounds and insults and hatred on both sides - it is something I couldn't do - I am not wise enough.
Monday November 19, 2012, 10:50 am
I am saddened by all the war, violence, etc that occurs "in the name of G-d".....well where is this G-d creating peace......who will be brave enough to stand up, be honest and give the other side peace first.........................
at least the missile defense system seemed to be a barrier to create a safer Israel instead of just arming and arming them, but I wonder what would happen if the suppliers to both sides were willing to stop???? that seems to be just as tough an issues....
Monday November 19, 2012, 10:59 am
I met an Israel woman years ago and I told her about my Army daughter getting deployed to Kuwait. This woman told me that the wars have been going on forever and they will continue and never stop. She e-mailed me pages of documents and video's. She made me a believer in what she was saying. Her mother had gotten killed in front of her by a suicide bomber.
Monday November 19, 2012, 12:07 pm
I wish for peace. I hope for peace. I prey for peace. I do not think it will ever come in my lifetime, or in the next generation. It seems neither side really wants to live in peace. They both seem much happier killing eachother off. Do they not see that the logical conclusion of such a position wipes both peoples off the face of the earth? What then? Both sides need to rise above themselves and their tribal DNA and sit down to parley for peace. For real this time.
Monday November 19, 2012, 2:17 pm
My theory is that Benghazi was a set up for WWIII. When the mysterious video which was poorly done, by some mysterious producers and promoters, and which suddenly appeared in that region and inflamed the already soreheaded idiots, a riot was roused (on purpose) so that a real organized terrorist group could get in there and assassinate the 4 people. The purpose was to further infuriate the public against the so-called "Islamist terrorists".
The public was supposed to have been blood-thirsty for revenge by now, and Romney was supposed to be on the throne to march our children in there to begin another great war, once and for all, to squash those "terrorists" and for his own personal agenda, to begin Armegeddon (since a zealous Mormon leader like him believes it to be his duty). He lost, thankfully, but the war machine was already set and so it went.
Think about that, it was all a set up to get us into another war because they, the GOP contingency, with the Netanyahoo contingency, would make fortunes, the economy would grow wildly (for them) and all the oil would be theirs, and Israel would be sitting securely in power in that region with our babies fighting their nasty fight.
I am grateful that Obama is in office. He will not send our kids to any war.
My prediction is that by Christmas this whole Middle East debacle will be over, and the guilty will be shown up for what really has been going on. McCain should really shut up.
Monday November 19, 2012, 2:23 pm
The Oslo agreement became just a piece of paper when the Palestinians would not recognize Israel. Why bring this up, except to try to put Israel in a bad light.
For every drone attack, the Israeli's retaliate. This is defence101. The Palestinians use this to cry "look what Israel is doing to us!". Can a group of people be this stupid- yes they can.
Monday November 19, 2012, 2:24 pm
Peace is ours, if we all want it. It is not just a group of words, its the truth. Until people decide that killing people will only end up killing more people, and that war never works to create a better world, nor oppressing others especially as one was oppressed, only then will they be able to decide how to wage peace. Humanity is idiotic for the time being, making insane decisions to wage war and call it necessary. I am disgusted by everyone who can stand with those who think its "how it is"
Monday November 19, 2012, 4:03 pm
If the People on both sides want Peace, it Can be so - but ALL other nations should stop aid until they decide they want to Live. Fueling both fires drags the insanity on & on..:(
Monday November 19, 2012, 4:33 pm
As usual, it's a land grab made worse by religion, intolerance and greed. I really feel sorry for the innocent people on both sides who have to put up with the self-serving political and phony religious crap those in power spew at the expense of their own people.
Monday November 19, 2012, 4:51 pm
Thanks Tom for the post and all four video segments. Israel just keeps things going and I think you are right reading Israeli not really wanting a two state solution. I subscribe to a news letter from a group call the New Israel Fund. They are very progressive and one of their goals is helping both side with humanitarian aid and legal service to displaced Palestinians in Gaza. Some of the service offices have had to close but the staff are working out of their home and they do not back the Netanyahu government or their policy of illegal settlements. Here are their goals at this time from an update I got today:
1. A number of the organizations we support are working to ensure that the Israelis living under the greatest threat of attack are cared for.
2. In partnership with ACRI (the Association for Civil Rights in Israel), we stand ready to protect the freedoms of expression, assembly, and dissent.
3. Weve established a "Situation Room" to monitor reports coming in from our staff and partner organizations, so that we can respond quickly to emerging needs for both Palestinian and Israeli people.
4. We are acting as a liaison between our partner groups and the Civil Society desk established in the National Emergency Authority, in which SHATIL takes part.
The email ends with; "we that this can be changed, that we all should keep on working, together, for a better region, as it is every person's right to live peacefully..
Thanks again Tom, read, watched and noted.
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:00 pm
We must help all Islamic terrorists, their Leaders and suppoters to commit suicide all together and to connect with their Prophet Mohammad forever. This is the only best track to save our planet from complete destruction by Islamic bloody Monsters.
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:35 pm
It broke my heart tonight as I watched the evening news and saw video footage of grieving Palestinian parents carrying the bodies of their children, some wrapped in flags, as they walked aimlessly among other bombing victims. Is one person's child more precious than another's? A resolution has to be agreed upon, and the violence has to stop! Those who aren't working towards peace are complicit in these deaths.
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 7:24 am
I don't agree with your read TC. Bob's is more accurate. I think it's time to let the situation play out. I also believe that the underlying agressor here is Iran. Don't you find it strange that the Hamas rocket attacks that prompted the assaination began just after the UN reported that Iran was within three months of having enough fissile material to create a bomb? I believe Iran wants to keep Israel tied down to avoid attack as they must now surely be beyond the Israeli trip wire.
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 4:46 pm
Bob Algeron is absolutely correct. Ahmed Jabari was NOT "working to stop the occasional rocket attacks against Israel," as the article falsely asserts, he was actively PLANNING them. Nor were the rocket attacks "occasional"; there have been literally HUNDREDS of rockets fired into Israel this year alone, aimed toward populated areas. The fact that few Israelis have been killed by these rockets is due to the facts that Israel has put a great deal of its defense budget into just that: DEFENSE. The Iron Dome system is apparently managing to stop about 80% of the rockets, and Israel has an extremely sophisticated warning system, combined with readily accessible air raid shelters.
Israelis do not house their military armaments in schools, apartment buildings, the middle of cities, or buildings that are places of worship to ANY religion. The same is not true of Hamas. Israelis do not teach arithmetic to their children by asking if you kill X number of Arabs out of a given total, how many are left? The arithmetic books given to children in Gaza do indeed have questions like that (obviously, using "Jews" instead of "Arabs"). Children in Israel do not dress up as suicide bombers for masquerades, nor do they play on playgrounds named for people who've murdered others by blowing themselves up.
Susanne, I also grieve for the children who've been killed. However, I ask you to keep in mind that Hamas has deliberately put them in harm's way by spending money on rockets, rather than bomb shelters, by hiding their munitions in places like schools and mosques and apartment buildings, and that there are quite a few documented instances of staged videos of victims-- some of whom somehow miraculously came to life when they thought the cameras had stopped filming. There is at least one documented instance of a young child who was killed by a bomb, supposedly a Gazan child. Interestingly, the exact same child's death was shown several months ago in Syria. Yes, it IS terrible-- but the child's death is now being used to spread a lie.
The Palestinians have been lied to, abused, manipulated, and kept in poverty and abject misery, I'll agree. Unfortunately, it's been by other Arabs-- NOT Israel. The TRUTH is, those who farmed the land NEVER owned it. It was owned by absentee landlords in Turkey-- some of the rulers of the Ottoman Empire. This is documented fact, not my opinion. It was paid for many times over by Jews, who would frequently pay several people for the same piece of land.
How much money did the artificial islands in the UAE cost to build? Why couldn't some of that money go to build schools, bomb shelters, improve infrastructure, etc., in Gaza? Answer-- because the misery of the Gazan people is worth more from a public relations standpoint-- as are the death of some of their children.
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 11:32 pm
Look, there are two sides here -- each of which is certain it is right and just. Until both of them allow that each is a little bit wrong, this is going to go on forever.
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 8:03 am
Thanks to most. It is sad that there are some whose blood lust makes t5hem part of the problem. I still say that we must support those on both sides who are working for peace.
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 10:56 am
When I think of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, I think of the picture of 2 boys, probably about 8 years old, one wearing a keffiyeh, the other a yarmulke, arms around each other's shoulders. I can hear the little snickers and whispers, the hopes and aspirations of these two boys who enjoy each other's company. What has happened? Where are these boys? This picture is what should be!
Both Israelis and Palestinians have their roots in the Semitic peoples. Both lived in this area of the world for how many thousands of years. Both have religions, although very different, based in the Abrahamaic tradition.
Yousef Munayyer " no military solution to this issue. You simply cannot bomb people into liking you . . ." Trying to bomb people into submission only grows bigger seeds of hate. Greater hate only begets more violence.
Yousef Munayyer " if you seed with hate, mowing the lawn just isn't going to work." There is a book "I Shall Not Hate A Gaza Doctor's Journey" by Dr Izzeldin Abuelaish which is autobiographical but also looks inside Gaza at what is happening. It is an incredible journey that Dr Abuelaish is on, and an example of " if you seed with hate, mowing the lawn just isn't going to work."
Noura Erahat " in order to move to the next step, there must be some sort of accountability for Israeli aggression and war crimes in order to rein in. It cannot have a blank cheque. " I agree. There must be some accountability by Israel. But I also think that Israel needs to stop falling on the sword of the WWII holocaust. I heard a Jewish acquaintance argue that the situation in the Middle East is an extension of the holocaust, but I think it is time to move past that (not forget, but move forward). But there must also be some accountability from Palestinians who are often, I think, used by the more radical factions.
David Frum " these conflicts are becoming less violent and more symbolic " I don't think grieving families on either side would agree with him.
Noam Sheizaf " basically the Palestinians have only gotten things through violence there is an international indifference " When do we, as citizens of the West, hear about what is happening in the Middle East, specifically Israel and Palestine? When there is violence! There has to be a sustained effort from outside of the arena to encourage peace in Israel/Palestine.
Are we, as human beings, so fixated on violence that that is all we understand? Sometimes I feel like shouting STFU and then rolling up my sleeves to get at the heart of the matter and get down to peace and justice. Let's plant the seeds of hope, love, justice, and peace. And yes, because human beings are so tribal, I think a two state solution is the best, but that too requires seeds of hope, love, justice and peace.
What is the sound of one hand clapping? Silence. It takes two hands to clap, and it takes two peoples to sound the notes of peace.
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 11:58 am
TomCat, I couldn't agree more with your last comment. And I DO think there are many Gazans who would prefer that Hamas stop shooting rockets, accept Israel as a reality, and let people live in peace. However, I think it was essential to point out that the article you posted began with an out-and-out lie: Ahmed Jabari was NOT one of the peacemakers.
I spent time in Israel when I was much younger (about 40 years ago), and a little time in Jordan, which was fascinating. The late King Hussain was indeed a peacemaker, and worked very hard to integrate the Palestinian refugees into Jordan. I felt only profound respect for him. He also tried to keep peace between Jordan and Israel, and I think his son, the present King Abdullah, is trying to do the same. Unfortunately, Jordan is probably the poorest of the Arab countries in the mid-East. They get little help from the oil-rich nations. Do you see troops massing on the border with Jordan?
Please also note that the Lebanese army found two rockets on their border that were aimed toward Israel. The army dismantled them. Again-- no troops are on the border with Lebanon.
I ask only that you post truthful articles. The one you posted was based on disinformation at best and a lie at worst.
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 12:48 pm
The much maligned Jimmy Carter got Egypt and Israel together in a pact that is still in place, and was so close to ending the whole problem when Reagan, easily the most overrated president in history blew the whole thing. A pox on his memory.
Thursday November 22, 2012, 7:37 am
Dori, although we completely disagree on the causes, I am thankful for your honest desire for peace, and agree that many in Hamas want the rocket attacks to stop, just as many in Israel want to stop the settlement of Palestinian land. Those people deserve our support.