Saturday November 24, 2012, 10:14 am
Republicans seem willing to go to war at the drop of a hat. Their War on the Poor, War on Gays, War on Workers, War on Women, War on Muslims, War on Minorities, and more demonstrate that point more than adequately. But of all the Republican wars, the one that makes the least sense of all is their War on Science, as this piece by Paul Krugman indicates.
Saturday November 24, 2012, 10:42 am
I'll tell you what my son who is a high school biology teacher in Texas tells his students when he starts getting the "But, but, Mr. Burton, the bible says..." He says "Guys, I am not your Pastor, I'm your science teacher, so I am teaching you science".
Saturday November 24, 2012, 10:53 am
Whatever happened to the separation of church and state?
As for Rubio - all these ridiculous comments he's making now will come back to bite him on the butt when he runs in 2016! Keep it up, Rubio! In 2016, I suspect the GOP dinosaurs will be going extinct! The USA will be weeding them out!
Saturday November 24, 2012, 11:04 am
HEAR, HERE!! Mr. Burton!!....and as a Christian, I believe God/Universe created EVERYTHING, which includes evolution...evolution is continued CREATION!!!!!!!! ( AND when I say this to people, when asked my opinion, I have 2 different reactions....Oh?..OH!! and a light bulb goes off..or....that look of a deer in the headlights, an uncomfortable shuffling of the feet, grumbling and sputtering and they say they don't want to talk about it, which is just fine with me, they were the ones asking ME!)....can't argue the truth..sensably , anyway!!
Saturday November 24, 2012, 11:57 am
....the irony is that myth-believers will accept science when, and only when, it supports their beliefs.......for example, .they love archeology when it uncovers biblical stories, but hate archeology when it shows evidence of the earth being older or evolution.......
SCIENCE = FACTS that can either be proven or can be scientifically disputed............SCIENCE is the future..........
oh by the way, GOP tea partiers, don't like science then hang up your phones, turn off your lights, stop using your computers, don't drive or fly or even take a train....and don't use any of the comforts of home like refrigerators, dishwashers, washing machines, etc.....all inventions of some type of science.....
Makes me wonder if in today's atmosphere what might happen should the "Scopes' Trial" be presented in any state south of the old Mason/Dixon line.
I happen to believe that Shelly has a right to believe, if it is her choice, that all things are created by god and the bible is an absolute and final word. Her personal beliefs are a private issue. My problem is when those private choices are turned into public laws.
There is no reasonable nor fair and balanced way to ask a formally educated science teacher to discuss a religious theory as a comparison to actual science. The task assigned to teachers is offer the best most comprehensive work on current science. Any form of religious study should come from the family and or the church. Students need to be taught that a line of separation does exist between facts and beliefs.
Even our elected officials are asked (for many generations) to keep that absolute line of separation. It's of no interest to me, whether that person believes in "creationism" or has an a understanding of science. When representing the people, we ask them to put aside religion in favor of an egalitarian approach to governing.
Saturday November 24, 2012, 12:57 pm
The hidden factor is that the creationism version put forward for educators disregards the history of the two distinct creation stories in Genesis written 800 years apart. Thus such a position shows both a disregard for science and for history. TomCat, Biblical scholars believe the second story was intended to address the misinterpretations of the first story prevalent at the time--and while you spoke of Moses (who would come later), you are correct that story telling that was explanatory or allegorical rather than literal factual information was the cultural norm according to both historians and Biblical scholars.
Saturday November 24, 2012, 2:37 pm
There is always going to be a small segment of society that will buy into just about anything, however it totally blows my mind that in 2012, with the internet, education, books, television, that so many people can really sink their teeth into this so out of touch thinking.
I mean, I can see it for those who might be disconnected from modern life, if they were living in the jungles of Africa, or back in the day of the pony express, but seriously today, after landing a man on the moon and all that. I have read these people exist, had heard of it, and finally ran across someone on a thread who spilled this out for her comment. That dinosaurs and man ran around at the same time and the earth was only about 7,000 years old.
Saturday November 24, 2012, 2:52 pm
Dear Kit!!..THAT IS NOT MY BELIEF, AT ALL!!!....YOU MISUNDERSTAND!..as I have not clarified what I belive in!..I believe in Creationalism as an Evolutionist!!!!!!!!!!!..I believe in Quantum Physisics! ( and everyone, in all aspects of that field ,are warring with one another, ..just to get published, rather than getting down to the facts and focus on the science, so that we may better mankind and our Earth, 2012 and on...!)..the Bible was written in a time, in a manner, to communicate with the people of that time!..and it is NOW, 2012!.."but crazy is, as crazy is and does".......and to leave that "tidbit" of knowledge and logic out, in any discussion, camoflages reality for communication....to take Bibilical passages and extort for one's personal agenda, is just that!..exploitation!...to be remind of morales and ethics, is just that!!!...I.E.=THE MAIN MESSAGE: PEACE ON EARTH, GOODWILL TOWARDS ALL MEN.....AND THAT HUMANS ARE THE STEWARDS OF THE LAND, AND IT IS OUR RESPONSABILITY TO DO SO LOGICALLY AND HUMANELY AND HAVE ENOUGH GUTS TO STANDUP AND FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT...and communication and truth are the keys, no matter what century it is!!...well, with internet, never has the extent and access for Global Communication EVER EXISTED!!!...AND WE MUST PROTECT IT, AS WELL AS FREE SPEECH, ANYWHERE ON PLANET EARTH......AND IT IS ALWAYS OKAY TO DISAGREE!...and it is always okay to come together, once those disagreements have been clarified and defined....WE FIND, OVER 50% OF THE TIME, WE ARE ACTUALLY ON THE SAME PAGE!!!!!!!!!!!
Saturday November 24, 2012, 3:01 pm
Frankly, I can't imagine any RepubliCON in any science based career/job..yet they are there. My youngest son is a computer tech type & he loves his job, but gets really pissy with a couple of RepubliCON "creationist" types who he has to work with on occassion.. Archaeology, anthropology, geography, and Space technology should screen out Any RepubliCONs, they can't be objective!
Saturday November 24, 2012, 4:27 pm
When my daughter had just begun 2nd grade she kept getting some of the "story problems" wrong in math. She know all her math tables very well...so i was very puzzled. Finally, i asked her to think out loud. . .don't skip a thought. . .just go through the problems out loud. I immediately spotted something and asked her why she had inserted a number that was not given in the problem. She said well you can't get an answer without a number there and the book didn't give it...so i just made one up. I explained that was a very creative idea but that the correct answer was "unsolvable" because the information provided was incomplete. She is in college now and we still laugh over that. I think no one has the republicans think out loud in grade school when they get the wrong answers. . .so they just keep making stuff up. . .ad infinitum
“It isn't that they can't see the solution. It's that they can't see the problem.” ―G. K. Chesterton
“I want you guys to line up alphabetically by height.” ―Bill Peterson
“She doesn't understand the concept of Roman numerals. She thought we just fought in world war eleven.” ―Joan Rivers
"Latest survey shows that 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the world’s population." ―Unknown
"I had an IQ test. The results came back negative." ―Woody Allen
Saturday November 24, 2012, 4:58 pm
"As speaker of the Florida House of Representatives, Mr. Rubio provided powerful aid to creationists trying to water down science education. In one interview, he compared the teaching of evolution to Communist indoctrination tactics — although he graciously added that “I’m not equating the evolution people with Fidel Castro.” Gee, thanks."
Saturday November 24, 2012, 5:50 pm
the GOP is bought and paid for by the Koch brothers, 2012!!!....hell NO!! no science and logic for them, THE aMERICAN PUBLIC AND ALL OF OUR CHILDREN!!!!!!...(it might give an "education" to people!!.).and those people WILL STAND UP AND SAY NO TO THE KOCH BROTHERS AND THE GOP!!!
Saturday November 24, 2012, 7:57 pm
And the Koch brothers are the US representatives for the Bilderbergers. What they demand is an ignorant and submissive population. Bob Jones Univ. is too happy to help. They have written the textbooks that are being used in 100 charter schools in La. They are examples of outrageous ignorance and a deliberate attempt to undereducate La. children. For example they claim that dragons once roamed the earth and had a fire generating organ that was situated next to the brain.
Saturday November 24, 2012, 10:23 pm
Hard to believe that people running the government of the U.S. could have such stupid ideas. Where do they get the votes? Or is it just a farce to get the power (and the money)?
Sunday November 25, 2012, 12:20 am
"As a Christian, I see no conflict between scientific evidence and Genesis, because I see scientific evidence as the closest approximation we have to literal truth and Genesis as mythical Truth. Homer said, “We are the stories we tell ourselves.” In ancient times, story telling bestowed cultural identity. Jesus used this technique frequently, as he often taught in parables, allegorical stories that taught a lesson without having to be literally true. Since allegory is how Jesus taught, I consider it absurd to hold Moses to a literal standard." I do so agree with you TC - in my view God created the Universe and the laws that run it - which are observed and clarified by Science. Also suppose for a moment that you are trying to explain particle physics to the average person, even today you would have a problem - suppose you were trying to do so to a Stone Age/Bronze Age tribe? All you could do would be to talk in allegories! Hence the stories in the Old Testament to my way of thinking.
Also - how do these literalists explain the fact (as I noticed the first time I read the Old Testament) that Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel - they were allegedly the first people on the earth - yet they had families. How and with whom? They surely needed some females from somewhere - yet the only place they could have apparently come from was Adam and Eve (surely not). Also how come Adam and Eve only had two children - not twenty? Hmmm - doesn't do to take it too literally, if you ask me!
Green stars to those I could - the computer permitting, of course!
Sunday November 25, 2012, 1:46 am
In medieval Europe, the Roman Catholic Church controlled all education and so controlled who was taught to read and write, etc. This ignorance was the church's way of keeping people subservient. Galileo was persecuted by the church for the world of science that he opened up, as were others. Women who demonstrated any free thinking were often tried as witches, because, in the view of the church, they challenged the church and so were going against the church's teachings. Check out the Malleus Maleficarum for a church authorised way of divining witches.
So too goes the Republican/Teabaggers. A few years after high school, I realised that algebra was more than just a school subject designed to give me some grief. It was a way of thinking — it was a logic that transcended numbers. By not allowing the proper teaching of science, they keep the masses ignorant and subservient. Think about the implications of this comment by Dave C from Care2:
"oh by the way, GOP tea partiers, don't like science then hang up your phones, turn off your lights, stop using your computers, don't drive or fly or even take a train….and don't use any of the comforts of home like refrigerators, dishwashers, washing machines, etc…..all inventions of some type of science….."
I would extend the list to include don't go to the doctor or the dentist — that's all science; don't build pipelines to carry bitumen because that needs good engineering science; don't build skyscrapers or homes because that takes architectural science — even a primitive lean-to requires science.
Rather puts things in perspective. Next time you are faced with a Republican/Teabagger spouting off about not believing in science, imagine the idiot standing in front of you clad in an animal skin only, barefoot, and filthy from hunting his next meal all day!
Sunday November 25, 2012, 6:22 am
I wish I could send a star to Carrie's son! Way to go teach!
Folks, it is wrong to so label Republicans. I'm a scientist and the most vocal nay sayers to global warming, climate change, supporters of fracking and so many other ills in my little area of the world are ALL DEMOCRATS!!
Sunday November 25, 2012, 7:29 am
Rubio is already beginning to pander to the voters for his possible run in 2016. He'll be saying whatever it takes to get his name on the ballot. Hopefully the huge lie he told about how his parents got here and when will again resurface and slap him down. The House Science Committee is a joke, remember Boehner put Todd Akin on it and we all know Mr Akin's views on the science of women getting pregnant if they are raped. Is anyone surprised by anything these wing-nuts say? Don't they know why they've lost the past 2 elections yet? Dumb asses.
Sunday November 25, 2012, 7:58 am
reminds me of that old joke
A man was praying to god.
He said, “God ?”
God responded, “Yes?”
And the Guy said, ” Can I ask a question?”
“Go right ahead”, God said.
“God, what is a million years to you?”
God said, “A million years to me is only a second.”
The man wondered.
Then he asked, “God, what is a million dollars worth to you?”
God said, “A million dollars to me is a penny.”
So the man said, “God can I have a penny ?”
And God cheerfully said,
“Sure!…….just a second .”
Sunday November 25, 2012, 9:31 am
Thanks everyone. I certainly believe that everyone may believe as they will. My complaint is how Republican Supply-side pseudo-Christians attempt impose their beliefs by law.
Sunday November 25, 2012, 10:14 am
Tea party is the choice voting your hatred on women, science, creation. They approach everything with hate.
1+ 1 = 2 will always be true because math is a perfect science, science is based on math.
Sunday November 25, 2012, 10:27 am
Republicans have nothing in common with Christianity, if they did, they would follow Jesus's teachings. They are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and have probably broken every law in the 10 commandments….wait a minute…I think some of them have…and they don't embrace science…just shows how full of themselves they really are.
Sunday November 25, 2012, 3:29 pm
Whatever happened to an open mind? Science asks questions, and actively seeks answers. And it doesn't exclude beliefs (religious or otherwise since a lot of Scientists are religious people) as long as it doesn't include a closed mind attempting to browbeat others into agreeing with them.
Sunday November 25, 2012, 3:49 pm
Elizabeth, obviously, you are speculating because there's no documentation anywhere that would prove what you said about republicans to be factual. Appears to be a bit of drama in your remarks.
TomCat, the republicans haven't waged a war against gays and lesbians, minorities, women or anyone else. How can you say that? Republicans believe marriage is between one man and one woman. Even Obama, soon after he was inaugurated boldly stood before the American people and stated, "I believe marriage is between one man and one woman." Do you remember that? Or do you have selective memory? Because he was losing the votes from the gay and lesbian communities, he, once again three years later, stood before the American people and stated he believed in gay marriages. Gays and lesbians make up a very small percentage of our population and to change the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman for a few is something hard to process. Personally, I don't care what my neighbors earn in salary. I don't care what they do in the privacy of their own homes. I have no reason to criticize anyone for living their life the way they want to live it. If gays and lesbians want to adopt and raise children, more power to them. But to ask the overwhelming majority of Americans to change what marriage represents in our country IMO is a bridge too far. There are a few states that have passed this law. The American people are talking to you! They aren't passing this law in most of the states. We are still a long way from changing marriage from a man and a woman to one woman and one woman or one man and one man. I believe in the future more and more states will trend towards these changes but to blame it on the republicans! Ludicrous. Even Obama was for marriage between a man and a women before he was against it! He's a politician. We all know how politicians are! Obama is no different.
It is no secret that Republicans do not believe in abortion. Obama promotes and believes in late term abortion. Because of the large Christian population in our country many do not believe in abortion. That isn't targeting women, TomCat, that is just stating a personal belief. We know that many women will use abortion like birth control. We have irresponsible women in our world who have unprotected sex taking the chance that they will get pregnant. We need responsible adults in this world. Don't want a baby? Don't have unprotected sex. Want to kill an unborn fetus? Have an abortion and by the way pay for it yourself. That's the issue with the republicans. They don't care what women do with their own bodies but don't expect those who don't believe in destroying a fetus to pay for it. It's against their religion and their own personal beliefs.
This is why we have a two party system in our country. We simply do not think alike.
Sunday November 25, 2012, 4:19 pm
Climate will bring it back. Not Dems or Cons.
You can afford to be patient. The young cannot.
I find it interesting Diane O. that you feel "It is no secret that Republicans do not believe in abortion."
Yet I remember an article about a republican congressman who wanted his mistress to have one when it would damage his political career. So apparently that statement is not true. (Or you do not read both sides.)
Sunday November 25, 2012, 4:29 pm
Well, John, I'm talking about the republicans as a whole. There are exceptions in both parties on different issues. But, then you already knew that. President Bill Clinton lied under oath and was impeached but that doesn't mean that all democratic presidents have multiple affairs and lie about it. Many democratic congressmen have had and are having affairs. The same for republican congressmen. I'm not sure what your point is. Because a democratic congressman could also tell his mistress not to have an abortion because he doesn't believe in it.
Sunday November 25, 2012, 4:33 pm
But the general belief pattern is that republicans do not endorse abortions (that is, they don't want to pay for them but they don't care what a woman decides to do to her own body) and generally speaking the democrats believe abortion is just fine and other people need to be on the hook to pay for it whether they believe in killing an unborn child or not. Therein lies the divide.
Sunday November 25, 2012, 4:41 pm
If republicans truly believed that there would be less bombings, and assassinations of doctors, (in churches), to support your view. I agree that temptation knows no party lines but you have an uphill path to convince me. The argument of its "OK because you are as bad as I am" leaves little room for integrity. Find it.
Monday November 26, 2012, 8:55 am
"Obama promotes and believes in late term abortion"? Why would anyone say something like that? President Obama believes in a woman's right to choose, but to make him sound like someone who spends his time encouraging women to have late term abortions is ridiculous. The best way to prevent abortion is through education and contraception, and he supports both.
To be "against" abortion for moral reasons is one thing, but to be "against" abortion because you don't want to help pay for someone else's procedure is something completely different. I can understand both sides of that issue. However, let's not pretend that being against paying for other women's abortions is akin to taking the moral high ground. It's an economic concern. People who are truly against abortion care about the child, and if they care about the child, they support programs that help the child after it's a viable and helpless human being who requires food, clothing, shelter and medical care. In some cases, that would require tax-payer assisted funding --and that's when most people who oppose abortion at any stage perform their disappearing act. They don't want to pay for any of it, yet they want to impose their will on others.
Monday November 26, 2012, 7:49 pm
Thank you TC. Extremely good posts as I have taken pieces of most (some in their entirety) as there are many good ideas and points of view that I believe. I completely agree with TC's simple words... ." I certainly believe that everyone may believe as they will. My complaint is how Republican Supply-side pseudo-Christians attempt impose their beliefs by law." This is what disgusts me...HOW DID THIS HAPPEN and How can we put an end to it?
Tuesday November 27, 2012, 3:59 pm
Obama sees nothing wrong with late term abortion, a fully formed human being....that is called "murder" and I'll tell you why. When someones shoots and kills a pregnant woman, in our country, they are prosecuted for murder for killing TWO people.
And, thanks to everyone but TomCat. Grow up, Tom. If you don't want republicans posting comments here start your own political group and close it to the public. You don't get to pick and choose who posts on a public thread.
Thursday November 29, 2012, 12:44 pm
"What was Mr. Rubio’s complaint about science teaching? That it might undermine children’s faith in what their parents told them to believe. And right there you have the modern G.O.P.’s attitude, not just toward biology, but toward everything: If evidence seems to contradict faith, suppress the evidence…"
I just love this part. And laugh myself silly every time one of these complete idiots opens mouth and inserts foot. What I find funniest is that the party of no, to everything, is going to learn first hand about evolution because in short order they will themselves become extinct. There is a wonderful irony in that. There just aren't enough rich white men and religious bigots in this country to win an election anymore and their percentage of the population continues to fall at a steady 3 to 4 per cent per election. It will not be long before whites are the minority voters in this country. They won't be able to gerrymander themselves into safe districts because they will be too small a percentage of the population to manage that. Sooner the better because this whole "everything was made in 6 days, 6,000 years ago" crap is so easily refuted that even most white voters know they are flat out insane to put forth such utter nonsense. Like I've always been told, experience is the greatest teacher of all, so let them learn about evolution and extinction by having that experience. No group has ever deserved this education more.