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Open Thread - 5/25/2014

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: Open Thread )

- 1488 days ago -
Personal news, a Jig Zone puzzle, 3 short takes, and a homemade cartoon (shown).

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Lona G (80)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 4:56 am
So glad/sorry (you choose) that you do not need to dilute your Portland water with alcohol any longer, TomCat. But e. coli is not something to fool around with

Too short on time to comment today myself, so perhaps I'll come back later when I'm back.

Gloria picchetti (304)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 6:05 am
Tom Cat I am glad Portland has clean water again. In Chicago when researching my grandfather's murder the day after Armistice Day I found article after article about all the customers in restaurants dropping dead from food poisoning. There were no sanitation laws. Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle about the back of the yards neighborhood and the slaughter plants in Chicago. President Teddy Roosevelt and many others decided things needed to change and we finally had sanitation laws. Of course the factory farmers and the republicans might like to revoke those laws.

Why is it called oversleeping instead of too much to do?

Sea Eagle puzzle time; 4:39. I thought I had more talon than that.

Why does anyone waste a keystroke over a guy that murdered four children? Now that I just did my wonderful, handsome grandfather was murdered when my mother was nine years old. She had four older brothers and three younger brothers. It was pre-meditated murder but the murderer walked on insanity. If he had been found guilty (as he should have been) would I care if he was executed or served time? In this case I think he could have served time even not a life sentence. But he didn't kill four children.

Winnie Adams (179)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 6:05 am

Arielle S (313)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 7:41 am
Yeah, Tom, it's not oversleeping - it's catching up on your rest and you must need it.... no guilt allowed!

Hobby Lobby will never see me inside any of their stores - I'm certain I'm not pure enough for them anyway.
Sanctimonious banana butts that they are.


JL A (281)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 8:30 am
Does Yoyo (intentional since he sounds like someone's toy) also want slaves and former slaves to be counted as three-fifths for voting purposes and counts for the House?
Research has never been able to find the death penalty to actually deter crime or meet any of the intended purposes if you read the statutes. It also is not a cost-effective practice. The only thing it does is satisfy public blood lusts.
More evidence of how power and money corrupt and preclude practice of Christian values as taught by Christ in OK--apparently Green needs some Biblical study to improve his choices to conform to the guidance provided in the New Testament.

"Sleeping is no mean art: for its sake one must stay awake all day." ~Friedrich Nietzsche

"No day is so bad it can't be fixed with a nap." ~Carrie Snow

"There is more refreshment and stimulation in a nap, even of the briefest, than in all the alcohol ever distilled. "~Edward Lucas

"Life is something that happens when you can't get to sleep." ~Fran Lebowitz

Joanne Dixon (38)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 9:52 am
4:49 Since it's a close cousin of the bald eagle, perhaps it was selected for Memorial Day weekend.

Daily Kos - TC, your analysis is right on. Not only Jesus but many of the apostles, some of whose stories we have in part, made that good. This guy probably feels so persecuted he thinks he has a right to skulk in the catacombs. But I suspect even then the catacombs were for cowards, or at most a temporary resting place.

NY Times - I can't finish reading this, and I have no personal standing. Other comments including those on Care2 are all good.

TPM - Yes, and they gave away free land (tautology, I know, but for emphasis) to increase suffrage. Is Yoho prepared to give lamd away? Bur you can't say it was consistent. Women who owned proprty in their own name still couldn't vote. And once you start restricting voting to property holders, what's to stop you from couning the votes proportionatly to the amount of property owned? Pfui. (But the Franklin quote is the best.)

Cartoon - I'm not sure it could ever have been enough.

P A (117)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 9:59 am
Daily Kos – you've hit the nail on the head again TC "Authentic Christians respect the law. If their conscience demands they break it, they do so openly, standing ready to suffer the consequences for their protest, just as Jesus did. Republican Supply-side pseudo-Christians consider themselves above the law they demand everyone else follows, while they violate it themselves in secret." That is one of the defining differences between us and them.

TPM – Yoho does indeed sound like a yoyo – what is he doing, running on fumes? The times that people had to be property owners (and all male and white) in order to vote were in the mid 1800s. Earlier today I was looking up suffragettes on the net having just learned from watching Sir Tony Robinson's recent series 'Time Walks' around cities in Australia that Adelaide allowed women to vote earlier than anyone else – I think it was 1895 – patently yoyo wants us to go back to before those times, back to sweat shops for just about everyone, no free education for children and no health care, freely adulterated food… strewth!


Pat B (356)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 10:14 am
Daily Kos: Haven't been in a Hobby Lobby in years, I'm sure that my money/time is not good enough for it.
Cartoon:I remember this well. Enron's stock plunges under $1 dollar, files for Chapter 11, and lays off 4,000 employees, many who lost their investment/stock options. Kenneth Lay died while waiting for sentencing, and Jeffrey Skilling (ex-CEO) sentenced to 24 years originally, had his sentence reduced. He gets out in 2017. He must repay the victims who will receive $40 million in restitution as part of the agreement. Wiki.
Glad that you can drink your water now, and that it's safe. Who said sleeping was not fun? I read, fall asleep, read, and then dognap. I'm thinking of being gainfully employed in that department. Hope that the rest of your day goes well, take care, relax, and Thanks, Tom.


Terrie Williams (798)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 10:54 am
Not even gonna start today on these topics because everyone knows how I feel about all of them property rights/voters. To that one topic I am in agreement with ma peeps here-----it's horse caca and anyone wanting to go back to that way of voting is an idiot and worse, I just can't say it here. The Rethugs want to take us back to the frikken Dark Ages let alone the early 1800's. No schools, no decent food (unless you owned the frikken castle), no housing (unless you count dirt floored hovels as a home), no healthcare (unless you went to a weeder woman and run the chance of being caught in the presence of a 'witch) and basically toil til you drop...which was normally around 30 at that time. Lovely, what they want for us ...but not for them. My pitchforks are honed, are yours?

Jim Phillips (3257)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 10:54 am
George Carlin - Death Penalty in 1996, 18 years ago.

Text & video:

VIDEO only:

May 25, 2006: Enron Execs Guilty
Enron execs Ken Lay (L) and Jeffrey Skilling (R) are convicted of fraud and conspiracy.
ARTICLE: Enron Chiefs Guilty of Fraud and Conspiracy
Trial of Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling

ty, tc.

Gene J (290)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 10:56 am
"Authentic Christians respect the law. If their conscience demands they break it, they do so openly, standing ready to suffer the consequences for their protest, just as Jesus did. Republican Supply-side pseudo-Christians consider themselves above the law they demand everyone else follows, while they violate it themselves in secret."

That second half of the paragraph tells the whole truth. Those are the people who have co-opted Christ for their right wing bs, but the truth is THEY are the same ones he threw out of the temple, the Pharisees and Scribes he so detested have stolen his message and corrupted it, just as they have through history used religion to gain power over the people and keep them afraid - while making a nice living telling other people what "God" told them to. Liars, thieves, hypocrites. They don't change over time, nor do their tactics. What should change is the gullibility of the masses. Though it is far easier to let someone else tell you what to do and think even others who lived more than 2000 years ago than to take responsibility for oneself and educate oneself to the issues of the day and make up our own minds rather than let politicians, corporate criminals and Sunday liars tell us what to think. Too many people are too lazy when it comes to the important issues of the day and that costs us all dearly in health and welfare of the populace.

I wish I had the ability to oversleep, Tom, I've not slept much at all for 20 years. Nothing works, at least nothing that is good for me. And at my age I don't have much choice but to avoid the other things, unless I lived in Colorado, then I might sleep again. :^). But then, pretty much all I did when I was of an age to smoke was sleep and that's not good either, well, it feels good, but life passes by to fast to sleep through it. Though there are more than a few that I wish would!

David C (129)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 12:19 pm

James Maynard (84)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 1:16 pm
Couldn't wait to get out of OK
ages ago....
We need to end Stete sanctioned
murder. It does not deter and is
simply barbaric.
Still think his name was a typo
and should be spelled Yahoo.
Thought I was flying along but
still ran a bit over average.....

Birgit W (160)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 2:55 pm
Thanks TC.

Gary L (138)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 5:41 pm
thanks TC interesting thought process these republinazi's use so like their phony Christ

Sheila D (28)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 6:00 pm
Those who truly believe in Christ would never condone the death penalty.
Sorry to hear you're not getting enough sleep that you overslept.
Thanks for the post, TomCat.

Edith B (146)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 9:47 pm
I hope you get some rest soon. You have to with COPD.

Daily Kos: As a former patron of Hobby Lobby, I am appalled at their behavior. I really liked their store, but will not buy from them again. While they were protesting having to provide birth control for their employees being against their religious convictions, they failed to report that they owned stock in companies that make Abortion supplies. Hmmm. Don't prevent them from getting here, just get rid of them if they do, and certainly don't take care of them after they are born. Now let us indoctrinate school children in our beliefs, too. Good grief.

NY Times: The death penalty needs to be ended, period. We cannot cry about other countries who commit atrocities agains their citizens as long as we are putting ours to death.

TPM: Why else would Citizens United be in existence? The Republican aim is for the elite, 1% to contol all the rest of us, just as royalty controlled serfs in the middle ages. How anyone who is poor or middle class could vote Republican just boggles my mind.

Cartoon: It looks like we will be waiting a long time for any more of them to be convicted. Our courts are balanced in their favor. Re; a recent child molester not sent to prison because his life style was not conducive to it, and a rich teen who was released because his wealth made him incapable of realizing he was doing wrong. How did we got to this point?

Colin Hope (243)
Sunday May 25, 2014, 11:29 pm
Signed and noted!!

Lynn Squance (235)
Monday May 26, 2014, 12:02 am
Puzzle — 2:55 My meditation guide is a bald eagle, a close cousin to this sea eagle. I have actually, through meditation, ridden on the back of an eagle as it soared over a river valley, lush with tall pines and fir trees. Very cool experience.

Daily Kos — This course of Green's, so surreptitiously slid under the school room door, in my mind violates the first amendment providing for the separation of church and state. So, if a child refuses to participate in this "unconstitutional course", could they be failed? Not only did Green violate the Oklahoma Open Meetings Act, but he appears to have violated the US Constitution as well. I'd love to see this guy up on charges but I doubt that will ever happen. So Republicanus/Teabaggerish!

NY Times — The situation beggars the question "Why?" But there will never be any answers now. There is no question that killing is barbaric, whether done as a crime or done as a punishment for a crime. In December 1962, Canada executed it's last felon. After that, there were no executions and capital punishment was abolished in July 1976. Between those 2 dates, all capital punishment cases were commuted as a matter of policy. In total from 1759 until 1962, 1,481 people were sentenced to death, with 710 executed.

There is a petition for a moratorium on capital punishment in the US at

"Many human rights activists are seeing the death penalty as capricious and cruel after witnessing Lockett’s death. If you believe the United States Supreme should place a moratorium on the death penalty, sign this petition."

TPM — Republicanus/Teabagger = DINOSAUR! (My apologies to animals called dinosaurs!) Paleontologists will probably hang me from my heels for that comparison. The GOP would I think jump with glee at the social order being moved back 200 years. It is time for a big change . . . vote out all Republicanus/Teabaggers possible in the 2014 midterms! The only good Republicanus/Teabagger is a permanently politically unemployed one.

Cartoon — Ah, the bad boys of Enron . . . executives Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling were found criminally guilty for their role in the demise of the now-defunct energy-trading firm.

From Wikipedia

"At the end of 2001, it was revealed that its reported financial condition was sustained substantially by an institutionalized, systematic, and creatively planned accounting fraud, known since as the Enron scandal. Enron has since become a well-known example of willful corporate fraud and corruption. The scandal also brought into question the accounting practices and activities of many corporations in the United States and was a factor in the creation of the Sarbanes–Oxley Act of 2002. "

I remember the fall out from this fraud all too well — it kept me employed! I was in charge of reviewing and implementing changes to our processes and procedures in our large department so as to be in compliance with Sarbanes-Oxley. All Canadian firms doing business in the US had to comply or risk criminal charges.

Lloyd H (46)
Monday May 26, 2014, 8:04 am
I have said this before but I will say it again. Everyone needs to actually download, print and read the "MANHATTAN DECLARATION: A CALL OF CHRISTIAN CONSICIENCE". Nine pages of Theocratic invalidation of the US Constitution. You can peruse the singers list and pretty much get the membership list of the leadership of the Christian Taliban of America: Gary Bower, the Catholic Bishops of the USA, Cardinal Dolan, Brian Brown(NOM), William Donohue(Catholic League), Israel Gaither(National Commander of the Salvation Army), Maggie Gallagher(NOM), Ken Hutcherson(Antioch Bible Church now Dead), Alevda King(niece of MLK Jr.),tony Perkins(FRC), Alan Sears(ADF), Don Wildmon(AFA), Scott Lively(ATM) and I have no doubt that there are number of Politicians that would love to sign but want to keep their jobs. And I am not talking about getting elected or reelected but being thrown out of office for violating their Oaths of Office.
Well it is Memorial Day and I have call Mom, my favorite Veteran, 90 years old and an ex-WAC Drill instructor veteran of WW II and Korea.

Robert B (60)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 8:09 am
The death penalty for muder is merely an act of revenge. Revenge is a toxic pill that only sickens the spirit of the one who swallows it. Piss poor political hacks only support it to get a knee jerk reaction from voters and to keep themselves in office on the backs of the continuing stream of innocent victims of the death penalty. It is a truly VILE and ABHORRENT practice. I understand the desire for family members and loved ones of murder victims to want support the death penalty. But this toxic desire to do so does no one any good in the long run. To turn your back on revenge is a difficult thing to achieve, but it is good for your soul because it frees you from also being the victim.
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