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ISRAEL VOWS TO VETO CHUCK HAGEL AND IMPOSE HER MAN


World  (tags: congress, military, middle-east, israel )

Abdessala
- 620 days ago - theonion.com
Sources confirmed that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had sent the White House a list of three individuals the Israeli leader considered appropriate to head the American military from which U.S. President Barack Obama could choose.



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Comments

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 4:04 am
JERUSALEM—Top-ranking government officials in Jerusalem confirmed Tuesday that Israel would exercise its longstanding, constitutionally granted veto power over American policy if U.S. lawmakers confirmed retired congressman Chuck Hagel as the United States’ next Secretary of Defense. “In light of Mr. Hagel’s worrying remarks on Israeli-Palestinian relations and questionable classification of Israeli interests as ‘the Jewish lobby,’ we consider him a highly inappropriate choice for Defense Secretary who stands far out of line with our national priorities, and therefore we are prepared to swiftly and resolutely use our official veto power over this U.S. action,” said Israeli government spokesperson Mark Regev of the legal maneuver that the small Middle Eastern nation has employed to block U.S. Cabinet nominees, U.S. legislation, U.S. international relations, and U.S. domestic policy over 1,400 times in its 64-year history. “Because congress does not possess the necessary nine-tenths majority to override an Israeli veto, they’ll have no choice but to head back to the drawing board and provide a Defense Secretary whom we find more suitable.” Sources confirmed that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had sent the White House a list of three individuals the Israeli leader considered appropriate to head the American military from which U.S. President Barack Obama could choose.
 

ParsifalOFFLINE S. (100)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 4:22 am

Insane Man Caught on Camera!
 

SuSanne P. (182)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:10 am
Thank you dearest Abdessalam but I heard this on the news yesterday. My belief is President Obama will unfortunately appoint Chuck Hagel. I am not intelligent enough to share why after listening to so many views as to why (the pro's and con's and agendas) as to why I believe this, so I'll leave it to you all whom are much more versed in this travesty that seems to have been going on for EVER. *** Intelligent *** meaning I haven't enough knowledge of Israel/Palestine History. Shame on me.
 

SuSanne P. (182)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:12 am
"WHAT THE WORLD DOESN'T NEED IS ANOTHER WAR TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE." I'm intelligent enough to KNOW THIS!
 

Just Carole (338)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:24 am

You know this is a post from The Onion, a satirical publication, right???

 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:31 am
Thanks SuSanne for your comments. I agree 100% with you that " "WHAT THE WORLD DOESN'T NEED IS ANOTHER WAR TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE." . For this reason justice is needed and so are human rights. That is why ending the Israeli occupation of the Palestinians land is required. Respecting other peoples rights is a must. Interfering in other nation affairs ( which Israel is doing) must stop.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:41 am
Who Will Congress Choose AIPAC or Chuck Hagel ?

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2013/01/07/mohamed-khodr-congress-who-will-you-choose-aipac-or-senator-chuck-hagel/#utm_source=Sabbah+Report+Newsletter&utm_campaign=fa5a762231-Mailchimp_RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:53 am
Yes Carole I know it is from the union but I don't know it is a satirical publication.
 

Just Carole (338)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:55 am
 
Thanks for adding the article by Sabbah, Abdessalam:
 
Mohamed Khodr: Who Will Congress Choose AIPAC or Chuck Hagel
 
 
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 8:00 am
Thank you Abdessalam. Noted.
 

Mary P. (157)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 9:27 am
The american people need to stand up and remove all the corrupt memebers who are for israel instead of ,for its people, the americans! Its now or never! America is fast becoming The United States of Israel! Its time for an 'american spring'. Americans are slowly but surely losing their democratic rights, and will soon find themselves being under the rule of tyrannical zionist israeli government! Americans will become the next 'palestinian people' for israel to oppress and dehumanize!
 

Mary P. (157)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 9:29 am
And murder their little babies too!
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:09 pm
A message from Just foreign policy
**Action: Senators: Confirm Chuck Hagel as Secretary of Defense
President Obama has nominated Chuck Hagel as the next Secretary of Defense. As Secretary of Defense, Hagel will push to end the war in Afghanistan, cut the Pentagon budget, and avoid war with Iran. Right-wing pro-war groups are trying to obstruct Senate confirmation. 20,000 people have signed a Just Foreign Policy petition at SignOn urging the Senate to confirm Hagel.

http://signon.org/sign/senators-confirm-chuck-1?source=c.url&r_by=1135580

 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:23 pm
Mart
There is no doubt that Israel is doing its best through AIPAC and other pro Israel lobbies to control not only US congress but also the White House and the American Administration but at the same time more Americans are waking up and realizing the facts about Zionism and Israel's occupation and understanding the nature of the apartheid racist and fascist regime in the Zionist entity. More regular Americans are brave enough to freely express their views without fears and raise their voices against their counties political, economic and military support to the Zionist entity. This is something promising and I, myself and millions of Palestinians and Arab, highly appreciate
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:25 pm
This was meant to be directed to my friend Mary P. Sorry for the typing mistake.
 

Henriette Matthijssen (145)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:34 pm
IsraHell has no conscience therefore they have no heart for anyone but themselves! And what Israhell wants usually gets, I pray that Chuck Hagel is the person that gets it & Obama uses his power to do the right thing as the world does not need any wars ever! We are all brothers & sisters as One! Thanks Abdessalam.
 

Vicky P. (464)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:37 pm
thanks for this, you should submit news more often ^^
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:48 pm
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Henriette because you have done so within the last week.
Sure I can. Thanks Henriette.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:54 pm
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Vicky because you have done so within the last week.
Yes I can . Thanks Vicky.I'll
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:55 pm
Thank you Carole. I ran out of green stars for you.
 

Jim Steve (46)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 1:06 pm
Really, really, FUNNY! !! The Onion comes up with some pretty good satire. But probably not too far from the truth. either. The USA sends some $3.3 billion/year which is laundered and sent back to the USA to buy media, influence politicians and "adjust" the American public to see things the way the political class of Israel wants. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of good people in Israel, but they are in the grip of the same sort of thing we see in this country. Every country needs to break free of their political class and their elites that are manipulating the world and wrecking the future for us all.
 

linda b. (190)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 2:30 pm
Noted, thank you dear Abdessalam.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 4:41 pm
Thx Abdessalam, at least now you've learned that the ONION (not "Union") IS a satirical site ;-)
I've signed & shared EVERY petition for this matter so far and will continue to do so, should there be any more coming. But I am pretty confident that Obama will insist on his choice and find ways for it despite the strong opposition from Congress which was entirely expected. I am also glad that Obama is NOT exactly friendly towards Netanjahu and is NOT keen on waging war with Iran himself, that is why he appointed Hagel.
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:23 pm
The Onion caught me once on a Native American story, I thought it was too good to be true. It was.....It was the Onion a satire on todays events. They do such a good job, many confuse it as truth rather than satire.
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:26 pm
Sadly Mary, for those of American Indian heritage that has already happened and continues.
 

Kit B. (276)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 7:41 pm

Very good and so close to true...love the Onion News.
 

Pat A. (117)
Thursday January 10, 2013, 4:18 am
Thanks Abdessalam.
 

Paulo R. (13)
Thursday January 10, 2013, 9:19 pm
"The question to be asked is how long can the history of anti-semitism and the Holocaust be used as a fence to exempt Israel from arguments and sanctions against it for its behavior towards the Palestinians, arguments and sanctions that were used against other repressive governments, such as South Africa? How long are we going to deny that the cries of the people of Gaza are directly connected to the policies of the Israeli government and not to the cries of the victims of Nazism? You cannot continue to victimize someone else just because you yourself were a victim once—there has to be a limit.” Author: Edward Said
 

Mary T. (186)
Thursday January 10, 2013, 9:50 pm
Thanks Abdessalam, Noted and have signed the petition on this to put Chuck Hagel in as Secretary of Defense.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday January 10, 2013, 10:11 pm
Abdessalam, don't you see that this no-name article is a sick joke, with its assertion of "Israel would exercise its longstanding, constitutionally granted veto power over American policy" ?

Obama went to bow to Saudi king, while Netaniuahu was sent home without dinner. Arab Extremists may rape and murder US Ambassador, but Obama expressed his deep outrage over a moron making Muhammed video and about several apartment buildings that Israel is building in its capital for both Jewish and Arab Israelis.

Unfortunately Saudi lobby is the real king maker in Washington. OIL $$$ counts.
 

Nimue P. (243)
Thursday January 10, 2013, 10:13 pm
Noted.
 

Heidi Aubrey (16)
Thursday January 10, 2013, 10:17 pm
Who the on Earth do they think they are to tell Our country who to elect? I hope the President doesn't cave. I am worried. He already appears to be caving in other Republican extremist demands. My gosh I hope I didn't vote for a spineless wimp as it appears with the other Democrats as well.
 

Cal Mendelsohn (992)
Friday January 11, 2013, 12:34 am
Satire should be labeled as such..otherwise posting this from the Onion of all places as serious news is just an exercise and excuse to vent against Israel. A poor premise if there ever was one and certainly one can find a more reasonable source for such venting.
 

Robert O. (12)
Friday January 11, 2013, 12:49 am
Thanks Abdessalam.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:23 am
It seems that some visitors here didn't read about the news published in an other source which I mentioned in my comment on Wednesday January 9, 2013 5:53 am . My friend Carol also has mentioned in her comment on Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:55 am,
 

John Gregoire (255)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:36 am
Thanks for the Onion chuckle. Unfortunately it rings too true!
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:39 am

Thank you, Abdessalam; I was just about to address this.

After I made my comment of Wednesday January 9, 2013, 5:24 am, I visited the site.

Ironically, it would be hard for anyone who is unaware of its reputation to know immediately that, although based on actual news stories, it is exaggerated satire.
 
In fact, this is how they list themselves on Google:
 
The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

"www.theonion.com/
The Onion, America's Finest News Source, is an award-winning publication covering world, national, and * local issues. It is updated daily online and distributed . . ."
 
Further, as others have stated here -- they have also been duped by the publication.
 
After you publicly stated that you were unaware of that, you did, indeed, then post a serious publication, which I gladly reposted as a hot link, thanking you for doing so.
 
 
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Friday January 11, 2013, 7:20 am
Thanks carole for this comment.

In current debate over Chuck Hagel’s pick to head the Pentagon, it is becoming self-evident that any political appointment in a US administration must first pass the Israeli litmus test.

Pressure from Israel firsters in early 2009 forced Barack Obama to rescind the nomination of Charles Freeman to head the National Intelligence Council (NIC). The Zionist lobby’s “thought police” was concerned with Freeman’s score card on Israel. Read more : ( sorry I don't know how to post it as a hotlink )

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2013/01/10/jamal-kanj-unchecked-israel-firsters/#utm_source=Sabbah+Report+Newsletter&utm_campaign=0f8e191bfe-Mailchimp_RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email

 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 7:26 am
 
Here you go:
 
Jamal Kanj: Unchecked Israel Firsters
 
"How do American allow Israel Firsters to declare their loyalty to a foreign state and can be counted on to put interests of Israel in front of America’s?
 
The undue influence of money and single issue interest groups is bankrupting the essence of American democracy and discouraging honest Americans from serving their nation."
 
 
 

bob m. (32)
Friday January 11, 2013, 9:04 am


My goodness;exceppt fpr one or two; seems we have a veritable hive of busy little bees ; a convention of smokers... each carrying their bag of stones laboriously through the dark moonlit night,,, away...away .....from their fine glass towers....115 more dead today in the land of peace.....
 

bob m. (32)
Friday January 11, 2013, 11:56 am


Peel me an onion Ab...cry me a river.... this world is FULL of sin and deception ... and you have your own VERY impressive bag of it......
 

helen Harvey (0)
Friday January 11, 2013, 12:29 pm
Since when has Israel taken over our country. Bad enough they push the Palestinians around! OK Obama!!!
 

Esther S. (45)
Friday January 11, 2013, 12:31 pm
The propaganda against Israel goes on and on and unfortunately so many people ignorantly allow themselves to be brainwashed into believing all of it.
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Friday January 11, 2013, 1:47 pm
I find it hard to believe that anyone scanning even a few stories in the Onion could ever think they were nothing but tongue-in-cheek satire.
The first one I ever saw had to do with a beaver:
"Local beaver Dennis Messner is spending an inordinate amount of time and effort in the planning and construction phases of building his dam, according to neighbors close to the project"

Isn't there some old adage about sometimes a person only sees what they want to see?.
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 2:04 pm

Well, because I respect you, Kenneth, I can understand why you would gauge something based on such a strict measure.

However, because I also have some experience with Abdessalam, I felt immediately that, due to his record of integrity and honesty, he must not have been aware of The Onion's reputation.

In fact, I've even seen people comment upon The Onion articles that specifically stated "SATIRE," but who still took the publication seriously (probably because they never read the article nor the comments).

There are comments here where (normally discerning) people have admitted to being totally taken by a single article from that source.

 

Past Member (0)
Friday January 11, 2013, 2:21 pm
Zionists have a disproportionate amount of power here!
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 3:43 pm
A significant defeat for the Zionist lobby?
 
By Alan Hart
 
"I would like the headline to be a statement but it has to be a question.
 
As I write it looks as though the Zionist lobby realises that it overplayed its hand in smearing Chuck Hagel in the hope of causing President Obama to back off nominating him for the post defense secretary. The implication is not that the lobby’s stooges in the Senate will refrain from giving Hagel a hard time at his confirmation hearing, but that they will not risk, at least for a while, further public exposure as Israel Firsters by causing the nomination to be rejected.
 
How much Obama himself is to be credited with outflanking the Zionist lobby on this occasion is a good question. There is certainly a case for saying that by authorising the leaking of Hagel’s name well in advance of the presidential nomination, Obama was deliberately provoking the Zionist lobby (and its neo-con associates) confident in the knowledge that there would be enough eminent and respected Americans, including some Jewish Americans, who would come forward to defend Hagel and rubbish the Zionist lobby’s smear campaign.
 
There were and Justin Raimondo put it this way. “When the ultra neo-cons of the Emergency Committee for Israel launched their propaganda offensive to cleanse the body politic of Hegelian revisionism, they took their campaign to ‘Criticize Hagel, Criticize Obama’ to such ridiculously vicious lengths that they inspired a vigorous pushback from the sort of people who had put up with their nonsense for too long: grizzled veterans of the diplomatic, political, and military corps who had sat in silence during the Bush years as the neo-cons played havoc with the country’s foreign policy.”
 
If as seems most likely Hagel is confirmed, it will be a defeat for the Zionist lobby, but how significant will that actually be? Will it be an indication that the lobby is beginning to lose its grip and, if it is, that we can look forward to a second-term Obama making best use of his greater freedom by doing whatever is necessary to get a real Middle East peace process going?
 
It all depends, I think, on why, really, Obama wanted the Republican Hagel as his top man in the Pentagon."
 
[See article for remainder . . . ]
 
 
 

Nelson Baker (0)
Friday January 11, 2013, 4:20 pm
Israel keep your nose out of American politics.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday January 11, 2013, 4:30 pm
"I would like the headline to be a statement but it has to be a question. " - I second that !!
 

Lois Jordan (56)
Friday January 11, 2013, 4:34 pm
Noted. Thanks, Abdessalam. I saw it was from The Onion, but when I read it, it certainly had a thick stream of truth to it...kind of makes you wince. Although I haven't studied this in-depth, from what I've read, Hagel is more of a dove than hawk, and progressives are for this appointment. I've signed some letters and petitions asking for him to be approved....and crossing my fingers this isn't going to another of those "bait-and-switch" appointments we've seen too often from Obama. Some things I've signed have put me on mailing lists with Jewish groups for peace and a 2-state solution....it seems there are many who feel this way. They are in complete opposition with Netanyahu and his policies. They seem to be gaining mass and hope to oust him in the next election. Many eyes are opened to the fact that those who were bullied decades ago have now become the bullies.
 

Tom Edgar (56)
Friday January 11, 2013, 4:40 pm
As with all good satire or any humour it is always relevant when an element of truth underlies the presentation.
This had me wondering for a moment how any foreign country could veto an American internal political appointment until I learned the "Onion" is a satirical publication. However there is enough truth contained there that should have any American worried.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Friday January 11, 2013, 4:58 pm
..and I encourage everyone to read the article Carole posted IN FULL, it is BRILLIANT and excellent observings!
Thx Carole for that!
 

Gary A L. (134)
Friday January 11, 2013, 5:03 pm
For anyone who is a fair minded person watching the news and seeing even the small amount that we are allowed to see of the brutality that Israel visits on Gaza and the people of the area any person of good conscious would see how disproportionate their actions are it is past time that we cut Israel loose and let world opinion hold them accountable for their behavior and no Israel is not our friend
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:11 pm

Very true, Gary.

 

Kenneth L. (314)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:17 pm
Carole you really don't need to 'explain it' to me...I stated my opinion and I still find it hard to believe that anyone scanning a few of the headlines on the Onion page couldn't tell it was satire and tongue-in-cheek.
I don't know what you mean by 'gauge something based on a strict measure'. A beaver? I dunno.
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:26 pm

"guage," Kenneth. Sorry to find that your imagination is incapable of interpretting a typo.

(And no, you "dunno.")
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:34 pm

For those who are unaware, The Onion is predominantly read by western, English-speaking readers.

It is preposterous to expect that those members of Care2, who reside in countries not in that domain (such as Egypt, in Abdessalam's example), are ALL aware of its premise.

Could it be that Abdessalam, like I have done -- and many others, set an "alert" for notices of stories mentioning the key words "Israel vetoes Hagel" received notice of The Onion article . . . and not being a reader before, may have taken it at face value????

Should we not, as "Care2-ing" people, first give the benefit of the doubt to contributing members? (Instead of leaping on their mistakes and further, smugly, embarrassing them?)

 

Kenneth L. (314)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:50 pm
Don't get ignorant with me Carole, what the hell? I wasn't finding any fault with the word 'guage' or how it was or wasn't spelled.
Keep your clever insults to yourself.

After looking at it, maybe you thought when I said 'I find it hard to believe' that I was questioning his sincerity or something? Which is why you're jumping up for his 'integrity'? No, no, no, no. I found it hard to believe as in hard to grasp with all the satirical news heaklines at the sides and bottom of this Onion page story that anyone couldn't see it was a satirical news site.

You're upset one hell of a lot of shit regarding Israel, don't throw it at me personally.

Since when is someone in dire need of walking on eggshells around them?
 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 6:57 pm

"heaklines"????

"Since when is someone in dire need of walking on eggshells around them?"

That was the entire point of my comments, Kenneth. SINCE WHEN (and why?) did Israel get that much influence over U.S. political decisions?

 

Just Carole (338)
Friday January 11, 2013, 7:09 pm

I realize that you're a Canadian . . . but MY GODDESS . . . you seem to be very aware of American problems.

I don't isolate Israel . . . I want my country to concentrate on the VERY SERIOUS NEEDS of its own citizens!

I don't want my country's youngest, most promising youths to lose their lives in wars for profit.

Any time I hear (or personally see) an American family hungry, or doing without a necessity . . . I RESENT MY TAX DOLLARS BEING SPENT ON THE MILITARY OR FOREIGN AID.

 

Kenneth L. (314)
Friday January 11, 2013, 7:19 pm
Good, so it's about Israel. I haven't said anything about Israel.
All I did was give my opinion about the Onion.
 

rene davis (74)
Friday January 11, 2013, 9:04 pm
Thanks
 

Parvez Zuberi (7)
Friday January 11, 2013, 10:57 pm
This just shows who is running American Governement The war mongers GOD Bless poor American peopel
 

Stan B. (124)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 1:05 am
Tut, tut, Abdessalem. Fancy being so devious as to post an article form the Union, sorry Onion, as a serious news item. What next? Articles from the Electronic intifada?
Your cheer leaders, like Carole, tried hard to dig you out of the hole but without success.
Flagged as unworthy which it is.
Good try, Kenneth, but " where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise."
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 3:29 am

It took you guys much longer than "normal" to gather up your posse.

Thank you for the brief respite from your ad hominem attacks (which, by the way, violate Care2 Code of Conduct).

 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 3:58 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Just because you have done so within the last week.
YES I can. Thank you Carole.
 

John J. (0)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 4:03 am
Onion to abdessalam & Carol
Incoming message from the Big Giant Head.
The Big Giant Head is unable to take your call at this time. You must wait until your call is answered in the order it was recieved.
 

John J. (0)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 4:07 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChjHS8-SbLg
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 4:11 am
Dear Abdessalam,

You did it!
This week, despite enormous pressure from the Israel lobby and right-wing Jewish groups, President Obama nominated Chuck Hagel as his new Secretary of Defense.

In the days before the announcement, 11,000 of you sent emails to President Obama urging him to nominate a Secretary of Defense "based on qualification for the job, not a neocon litmus test of unconditional support for Israel's rightwing government."

Your emails helped counter the op-eds and thousands of anti-Hagel emails sent by Israel Lobby groups. President Obama now knows from personal experience that if he pushes back against the Lobby, he has support from people like you—and he can win.

This is downright historic. It signals a welcome, though overdue sign, that daylight between American and Israeli policies is becoming politically acceptable in Washington.


Further, thanks to your efforts, Jewish Voice for Peace got our message out to influential audiences, with discussion of our campaign in the New York Times and Congressional Quarterly Roll Call.


We may ask for your help again soon.

Former Senator Hagel’s confirmation hearings are coming up, and we wouldn’t be surprised if Hagel, who in truth is not our kind of guy on most issues, responds to the pressure by vowing to support Israel at all costs. But this could be an opportunity to encourage former Senator Hagel to continue the kind of independent thinking that may shake US foreign policy in the Middle East.


Regards,

Rebecca Vilkomerson
Jewish Voice for Peace.
 

Cal Mendelsohn (992)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 4:12 am
LOL John J--that's good!

Carole, I'm sure all of us are equally stunned by the fact that anyone by now considers the Onion as a real news source. Certainly your "posse" (your words) could come up with something more credible for your attacks on Israel which appear to be 'ad hominem' to many of us on the receiving end all too frequently also
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 4:26 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Gary A because you have done so within the last week.
Thanks Gary AL . Very true indeed.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 4:31 am

I don't need a "posse" to back up my own thinking, Cal, nor do I need to summon an arsenal of reserve fake accounts to take inane pie shots at genuine arguments (even if you do enjoy it).

It was briefly enjoyable to see this discussion return to the valid point questioning the interference of Israel regarding American political decisions. Those of us who truly wished to stick to that subject gave it a valiant try. But, I see it has -- yet again, and predictably -- become more about blatant Islamophobic hate-mongering and questioning the ulterior motives of a fellow Care2 member.

Sad!

 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 5:31 am
When it comes to insulting Islam and Muslims, I immediately repost few verses from the Quran that say: " The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace."
(al-Furqan 25: 63)

Peace on all .......who are interested in quarrel with us.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 5:34 am
Sorry for the spelling mistake . Peace on all .....Who are interested in quarreling with us.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 6:11 am
**Action: NPR, CFR: Don't Enable Elliott Abrams' Smear Campaign on Chuck Hagel
Elliott Abrams, a "fellow" at the Council on Foreign Relations (yes, the same Elliott Abrams who pled guilty of lying to Congress in the Iran-Contra scandal) went on National Public Radio and publicly smeared President Obama's nominee for Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel, as an "anti-Semite." The charge itself is completely outrageous and preposterous: if there were a molecule of reasonable doubt, would Sen. Carl Levin and Sen. Dianne Feinstein be strongly backing Chuck Hagel's nomination? Abrams's smear campaign only has a chance of reaching the broad public because CFR and NPR give him a public platform for his smears. Would they give Rush Limbaugh a public platform to call Sandra Fluke a "slut"?

Urge CFR and NPR to stop enabling vile smears of a decorated war hero and public servant, by signing and sharing our petition:

http://signon.org/sign/npr-cfr-dont-enable-elliott?source=c.url&r_by=1135580
 

John Gregoire (255)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 7:00 am
If confirmed by the Senate, Hagel would be the first former infantryman, the first person of enlisted rank, and the first Vietnam veteran to lead the Defense Department.

Hagel volunteered to serve in the Army infantry from 1967 to 1968 and was awarded two Purple Hearts for wounds incurred in Vietnam.

He served in the President Ronald Reagan administration as deputy administrator of the VA.

Serving in the Senate from 1997 to 2009, Hagel teamed with Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) in 2007 to sponsor the legislation to put statutory caps on TRICARE fee increases. Many of the provisions of that original Lautenberg-Hagel bill, including the COLA-based formula for capping pharmacy copays that’s part of the new FY2013 Defense Authorization Act, have been enacted into law over the past couple of years.

For their efforts in leading that charge, Hagel and Lautenberg were co-recipients of the 2007 Col. Arthur T. Marix Congressional Leadership Award.

An independent thinker whose positions at times have rankled senators on both sides of the aisle, Hagel’s confirmation will be anything but a cake-walk.
 

Allan Yorkowitz (453)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 11:26 am
Although the was a satire, yes, as many have said, there is truth in what Israel would "like to do" if Hagel was given the job.
I would ask Henrietta, a non-supporter of Israel to read Rob and Jay's comment on Hagel, then get back to us.
John G: As for the Lautenberg bill you are referring to, Hagel latched onto a sure vote. This did not come from him.
More importantly, I guess you are comfortable with the fact that Hagel is in favor of direct talks with Hamas? He also has refused to list Hezbollah as a terrorist organization?
I certainly would want him as our Sec. of Defense.
 

Mary P. (157)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 11:30 am
Abdessalam,"When it comes to insulting Islam and Muslims, I immediately repost few verses from the Quran that say:

" The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace." (al-Furqan 25: 63)

Jazakallah! You beat me to it! Lol! Take care my Brother, May you be blessed with ALLAH Swt's Love, Closeness and Intimate Friendship. :)
 

Alexa R. (333)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 11:35 am
Send a Green Star to stan b.

Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to stan because you have done so within the last week.
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 11:57 am
Just for the record I'm good friends with Mary P., and Abdassala and myself have traded green stars occasionally. Yet I was against Carrie B. using some bias source regarding Gaza, but are yet friends in other areas----so hard to keep up with all the C2 politicking on various issues and who is on what side regarding what and who is your friend and who ain't etc. and all that goo..
 

Vlasta M. (7)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 12:25 pm
Get Obama, Hagel, Kerry and a few others to "lead the nation", and the transformation of US into white slaves to Saudi oil and Chinese communist stuff (and money we owe them to supply US with cash) is completed. When half of the US population living off the working hal, Obama is leading US to perdition,while bowing to Saudis and Chinese who support US debt We better all learn Arabic and Chinese and pray 5 times/day or become communists ;-)!

The Muslims antisemitism on this board had united with WRONG-wing liberals in dissing the only functional democracy in the Middle East and they probably also voted for the Muslims Brothers of Obama, whose stated goal is to infiltrate American and destroy Western civilization from within" Judging by the comments of delusional Jew haters on this board, Obama had already succeeded to get US to the brink of perdition, as Ahmedinijad and other Muslims who claim that Islam is a "peaceful' religion want ;-)!

We are going back to middle ages of sharia and burkhas...better learn Arabic and Chinese to learn to SUBMIT to power of supremacist ideologies of Islam and Communism, where might makes right and everybody is afraid!
 

monka blank (74)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 3:14 pm
signed, Go Hagel !!
 

Tom Edgar (56)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 3:57 pm
It is a pity that diatribes of hate, in not particularly intelligent phraseology, (VLASTA) has to appear, but then that is the democratic way of having even the least knowledgeable and enlightened to have input to any argument.

That persons, such as myself of Jewish heritage, are prone to condemn Israel for its many undemocratic and inhuman actions doesn't mean it is axiomatic that we support the same actions when perpetrated by Islamic nations, nor by the forces of fundamentalist Christians in the armies of the West.

A "Terrorist" act be it by distorted radical Muslims e.g. Al Quaida, or by the equally distorted Christian philosophies that activate the American Drones and ground forces, it is still no way to foster friendship, it never has nor ever will. To blanket those of us who condemn Israel for its many illegal, by international law, acts over the past 60 years as Jew Haters is far from the truth. There are many Jews, both secular and practising, many being Israelis, who condemn Netenyahu and other followers of his extremist philosophies.

I find the very last line of Mr Vlasta's somewhat perplexing..."Where might is right and everybody is afraid."
I'll agree it does apply to some Islamic extremists, but, equally, it applies to the many acts of the U S A both within, and outside, its territorial borders. Hastily I add America is not alone in that.
 

Lois Jordan (56)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 4:37 pm
I don't abide by any religion, and just hate to see all the divisiveness brought on here. Holy books from the major religions are all peppered with "hate speech," fueling the insecure fanatics and the mentally ill to do harm to others. Christians quote from the Quran, Muslims quote from the Bible....just muddles my poor brain. There is such a thing as kindness and sensitivity....why not start focusing a bit on that part of those religions? (I will say that I didn't note any harsh words from Abdessalam).
The majority of the people in these countries just want to live peacefully....have jobs, raise families....The perpetuators of wars are in it for the money. The multi-national war machine only works when there is conflict. They tug on the emotions of those who have little.... and nothing to lose...fearmongering and fomenting hatred to divide us all. They leave us all broken and in pain while they make off to their idyllic retreats with the profits. They have no conscience; no soul. They will hopefully exist eternally in a vast vacuum of nothing, and I won't put myself in a position to join them.

As to the "sharia and burqas" we're all going to end up in....I'm more concerned with Christian fundamentalists in this country, who have no education regarding female anatomy, as well as no respect. We are one race of human beings, with our gender differences dividing us the most. Respect among humans--regarding all as equals....men and women respecting each other as equals....is what we should endeavor to accomplish.
Don't let The Corporate Powers divide us on social issues & religion. Find common ground; abide by The Golden Rule, and please stop the fearmongering. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just tired.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 6:20 pm

Excellent comments Tom and Lois!

Thanks for your well-considered input.

 

Lee Hampton (15)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 8:27 pm
OH YEAH! "Israel's" the problem, isn't it. And all of those poor peaceful, innocent Muslims, just standing around singing Kumbaya...

From the Religion of "Peace".. From the last 30 (thirty) DAYS:

Date -- Country -- City -- # Killed -- # Injured -- Description of Atrocity

2013.01.11 Thailand Pattani 2 2 A Muslim bomb aimed at teachers leaves two guards dead.
2013.01.10 Pakistan Quetta 105 169 Over one-hundred people are massacred by two Lashkar-e-Jhangvi suicide blasts at a billiards hall in a Shiite area.
2013.01.10 Pakistan Mingora 30 70 Thirty people are ripped to shreds by a Fedayeen suicide bomber at a rival preaching center.
2013.01.10 Iraq Baghdad 5 15 Sunni bombers strike a bus stop in a Shia neighborhood, sending five residents to Allah.
2013.01.10 Yemen Abyan 1 2 al-Qaeda assassins shoot a mediator to death.
2013.01.09 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 An influential Shia doctor is murdered outside his clinic by devoted Sunnis.
2013.01.08 Pakistan Choura 1 0 A Sikh businessman is kidnapped and murdered by Lashkar-e-Islam.
2013.01.08 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A Shiite father is shot to death in front of his child by Sunnis.
2013.01.07 Nigeria Baban Layi 3 2 Islamists murder three traders at a market.
2013.01.07 Pakistan Karachi 2 0 Sectarian Jihadis take down a father and daughter.
2013.01.07 Nigeria Kano 3 1 Boko Haram gunmen fire into a group of civilians leaving a rival mosque, killing three.
2013.01.06 Afghanistan Spin Boldak 4 15 Two suicide bombers murder four other people at a community meeting.
2013.01.06 Pakistan Chiniot 1 0 A Shiite child dies of injuries one week after being shot by Sipah-e-Sahaba.
2013.01.06 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 A Buddhist woman dies after being shot in the neck and body by Muslim 'insurgents'.
2013.01.05 Iraq Karbalah 1 11 A Shiite girl on a minibus is taken out by Sunni Holy Warriors.
2013.01.05 Pakistan Utmanzai 2 0 Two charity workers involved in an education project are murdered by Religion of Peace radicals.
2013.01.04 Kenya Garissa 2 7 Two refugees bleed to death after al-Shabaab cadres toss a grenade into their camp.
2013.01.03 Afghanistan Nawa-i-Barakzayi 1 0 A cleric is gunned down in his own mosque by religious hardliners.
2013.01.03 Iraq Musayyib 28 49 Twenty-eight Shiite pilgrims are blown apart by a Shahid suicide car bomber.
2013.01.03 Pakistan Swabi 1 0 A prayer leader is assassinated by sectarian rivals.
2013.01.03 Iraq Baghdad 4 15 Sunnis target a minibus carrying Shia pilgrims, managing to kill just four.
2013.01.03 Nigeria Song 4 0 Four people are burned to death by Religion of Peace radicals, including a child.
2013.01.02 Iraq Karbalah 2 8 Two Shia pilgrims on foot are sent straight to Allah by Sunni bombers.
2013.01.02 Pakistan Miranshah 3 3 A woman and child are killed when Islamic militants fire a rocket into their home.
2013.01.01 Pakistan Swabi 7 1 Six women are among seven humanitarian workers brutally machine-gunned by Mujahideen.
2013.01.01 Pakistan Karachi 6 40 Tehreek-e-Taliban set off a bomb at a political rally, taking out at least six participants.
2012.12.31 Iraq Hillah 3 21 A bomb targeting Shia pilgrims leaves three dead.
2012.12.31 Iraq Karrada 5 25 Sunnis set off a bomb next to a group of Shi pilgrims, killing five.
2012.12.31 Iraq Khalis 3 36 al-Qaeda bombers murder three Shia pilgrims in two attacks.
2012.12.31 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 Sunnis shoot a 40-year-old Shiite man to death at a market.
2012.12.31 Iraq Bani Wais 4 1 A woman and child are among the casualties of a Mujahideen bombing.
2012.12.31 Pakistan Bakarabad 1 0 One civilian is killed when religious hardliners blow a girls' school.
2012.12.31 Pakistan Chiniot 1 4 Two Shia children are among the casualties of a Sunni drive-by.
2012.12.31 Pakistan Bilal 1 0 A prayer leader is assassinated by Religion of Peace rivals.
2012.12.31 Syria Ras al-Ayn 1 0 A pregnant Christian woman is left widowed after her husband is beheaded Islamic radicals and fed to dogs.
2012.12.31 Iraq Musayyib 7 6 Four women and children are among seven innocents slain in their homes by the Islamic Army of Iraq.
2012.12.30 Pakistan Sargodha 4 0 Four Shiites are beheaded by Sunni rivals, including a religious scholar.
2012.12.30 Pakistan Baluchistan 20 24 Twenty innocents are slain in a targeted Lashkar-e-Jhangvi suicide attack on a bus carrying Shia pilgrims
2012.12.30 Algeria Mellakou 0 1 An imam is stabbed shortly after denouncing Islamic extremism.
2012.12.30 Pakistan Yousaf Talab 1 4 Muslim militants are suspected of firing a mortar into home, killing a woman.
2012.12.30 Pakistan Ittehad Chowk 1 1 Gunmen fire at two Christian brothers in a targeted attack. One later dies of injuries.
2012.12.30 Nigeria Kyachi 15 0 Islamists invade a church service on Sunday morning, tie up fifteen worshippers and execute them. (Follows similar attack elsewhere two days earlier).
2012.12.30 Libya Misrata 2 2 Islamists toss a hand grenade at worshippers leaving a Coptic church, killing two.
2012.12.30 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A cleric is gunned down by Religion of Peace rivals.
2012.12.29 Iran Tehran 1 0 A Jewish man is murdered by a Muslim woman, whom police congratulate for 'doing a good deed.'
2012.12.29 Pakistan Rahim Yar Khan 1 0 An 18-year-old girl is strangled by her family on suspicion of a love affair.
2012.12.29 Pakistan Peshawar 21 1 Twenty-one captured soldiers are executed in cold blood by Sunni fundamentalists at a cricket field.
2012.12.29 Syria Damascus 4 4 Sunni terrorists send rockets into a Shia shrine, killing at least four.
2012.12.29 Pakistan Karachi 7 48 Terrorists send seven souls to Allah with a brutal suicide bomb attack on a bus.
2012.12.28 Nigeria Bigi 3 5 Suspected Islamic terrorists murder three villagers.
2012.12.28 Nigeria Potiskum 2 0 Two people are killed when Boko Haram assault a bank branch.
2012.12.28 Nigeria Musari 15 0 Islamists tie up fifteen women and children inside a church, then slit their throats while shouting praises to Allah.
2012.12.28 Nigeria Kaduna 1 1 A university professor is cut down by Muslim gunfire.
2012.12.28 Syria Damascus 4 10 A Sunni car bomb in a Shia neighborhood leaves four dead.
2012.12.27 Algeria Bouira 2 0 Two children, ages 12 and 14, are ripped to shreds by an Islamist bomb.
2012.12.27 Yemen Hadramawt 1 0 The body of a horribly mutilated al-Qaeda victim is discovered.
2012.12.27 Kenya Mandera 1 0 Islamists ambush and kill a local cop.
2012.12.27 Pakistan Quetta 1 0 A Christian girl is shot execution style through the head.
2012.12.27 Afghanistan Tarin Kot 4 2 A religious policeman helps his Sunni brothers slaughter four fellow officers in their sleep.
2012.12.27 Pakistan Charsadda 0 4 Four children are injured when radicals set off a bomb outside a rival mosque.
2012.12.27 Nigeria Maiduguri 4 0 Boko Haram murder three local cops and a businessman.
2012.12.27 Pakistan Hasankhel 2 22 Two security personnel are murdered in a Taliban ambush.
2012.12.26 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 47-year-old Buddhist woman is shot to death while on a motorcycle by suspected 'insurgents'.
2012.12.26 Sudan Buram 4 0 A 70-year-old woman and two children are among four Christians killed in an Islamic bomb attack.
2012.12.26 Afghanistan Khost 3 7 Three Afghans are blown to bits by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2012.12.26 Russia Vladikavkaz 1 0 A moderate mufti is assassinated by Islamic radicals.
2012.12.26 Turkey Batman 1 0 A young woman is strangled by her family to restore honor in the wake of a rape by her cousins.
2012.12.26 Nigeria Bachit 5 0 Suspected Fulani murder three villagers, including a married couple, in attacks on two Christian homes.
2012.12.25 Pakistan Iqbal 0 12 At least a dozen Christian men, women and children s are set on with guns and iron rods by a Muslim mob outside their church.
2012.12.25 Russia Nalchik 1 0 Suspected Islamists shoot a non-Muslim twice in the head.
2012.12.25 Yemen Sanaa 2 0 Two Yemenis are gunned down by al-Qaeda.
2012.12.25 Yemen Marib 14 0 Fourteen tribesmen are killed in an attack by al-Qaeda linked militants.
2012.12.25 Nigeria Peri 6 4 A pastor and five worshippers are slaughtered in a Religion of Peace attack on a Christmas morning church service.
2012.12.25 Nigeria Rim 1 0 A Christian is killed in his home by Fulani gunmen in front of his family.
2012.12.25 Nigeria Kano 2 0 Boko Haram gun down two people in separate attacks.
2012.12.25 Tanzania Zanzibar City 0 1 A Catholic priest is shot in the chest by Muslim gunmen.
2012.12.25 Pakistan Yar Hussain 6 0 Three young women and a child are among a family of six machine-gunned by honor killers over two women wanting a divorce.
2012.12.25 Pakistan Karachi 6 1 An attack on a Sunni cleric leaves six dead.
2012.12.24 Germany Bonn 0 1 Islamic extremists slash the tongue of an Indian student who refused their offer to embrace Islam.
2012.12.24 Pakistan Quetta 2 0 Sectarian rivals target and kill two seminary students.
2012.12.24 Afghanistan Darzab 5 0 Five local police are slaughtered by Taliban militants.
2012.12.24 Pakistan Karachi 3 0 Two brothers are among three Shiites murdered by Sunni gunmen.
2012.12.24 Pakistan Karachi 2 0 A Sunni cleric and university student are gunned down by sectarian rivals.
2012.12.24 Iraq Samarrah 2 0 Suspected al-Qaeda assassinate two guards at a Shia shrine.
2012.12.24 Pakistan Karachi 1 1 Sunnis fire on two Shia brothers at a vegetable market, killing one.
2012.12.24 Nigeria Maiduguri 6 0 Six people are killed in a Christmas Eve church attack by Religion of Peace gunmen.
2012.12.24 Iraq Baqubah 2 0 Mujahideen kill two brothers.
2012.12.23 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A Shia trader is murdered by Sunni gunmen.
2012.12.23 Iraq Mishahada 3 1 Terrorists murder three construction workers with a bomb planted under their house.
2012.12.22 Syria Damascus 5 24 At least five are killed by a Sunni car bomb.
2012.12.22 Pakistan Peshawar 9 30 A Religion of Peace suicide bomber detonates at a rally, killing nine innocents.
2012.12.22 Pakistan Dadu 1 0 A man accused of burning a Quran is pulled from a police station, tortured, beaten and then set on fire by a mob.
2012.12.22 Pakistan Miyaani 2 0 A conservative Muslim kills his sister and her suspected lover.
2012.12.22 Iraq Qazaniyah 4 11 A shop selling 'unIslamic' DVDs is the target of a bomb that leaves four dead.
2012.12.22 Nigeria Kano 4 0 Four people are reported killed when two suicide car bombers attack a telecom firm.
2012.12.21 Iraq Mosul 1 0 Muslim 'insurgents' shoot a female professional to death.
2012.12.21 Pakistan Wana 5 4 Five people are killed by a suicide bomber at a vegetable market.
2012.12.20 Indonesia Tambarana 3 3 Suspected Jamaah Anshoru Tauhid terrorists ambush and kill three local cops.
2012.12.20 Pakistan Lines 1 0 A Shia banker is shot to death by sectarian rivals.
2012.12.20 Yemen Beaver Ridge Canaan 1 0 A woman is shot to death by fundamentalists for drinking alcohol.
2012.12.20 Libya Benghazi 3 9 Two civilians and a police officer are killed when Islamic militants turn violent.
2012.12.20 Afghanistan Zaranj 7 2 Five civilians are among seven Afghans taken out be a Religion of Peace roadside bomb.
2012.12.20 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 A health worker is murdered by Jundullah gunmen.
2012.12.20 Thailand Yala 1 0 Muslim snipers pick off a Buddhist policeman.
2012.12.19 Pakistan Charsadda 2 0 Islamic militants shoot a female polio vaccine worker and her driver to death.
2012.12.19 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 An 18-year-old humanitarian worker is shot in the head by Muslim hardliners.
2012.12.18 Pakistan Karachi 3 5 Three female humanitarian workers are shot to death by the Taliban, including a 50-year-old shot five times in the head.
2012.12.18 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 A woman is murdered by fundamentalists for working on an anti-polio drive.
2012.12.18 Pakistan Landhi 1 0 A Shia doctor is murdered in his own clinic by Sunni gunmen.
2012.12.18 Sudan Eire 5 1 Two 4-year-olds and a baby are among a Christian family of five killed in an Islamic bombing.
2012.12.18 Iraq Karbalah 3 15 Militant Sunnis detonate a car bomb outside a Shia shrine, sending three pilgrims to Allah.
2012.12.18 Iraq Mosul 1 0 A religious minority is shot to death.
2012.12.17 Iraq al-Buslaib 3 0 Three local cops are murdered by al-Qaeda bombers.
2012.12.17 Iraq Dujail 1 10 A car bomb targeting Shia pilgrims leaves one dead.
2012.12.17 Pakistan Quetta 3 1 Sunni radicals shoot three people to death in a targeted attack on Shia.
2012.12.17 Pakistan Jamrud 21 74 Five boys and two women are among twenty-one civilians dismantled by Religion of Peace bombers at a bus stop.
2012.12.17 Afghanistan Kabul 2 30 Two civilians are killed by a Taliban blast.
2012.12.17 Iraq Tuz Khurmatu 5 26 Sunni bombers murder five Shiites outside their mosque.
2012.12.17 Iraq Tikrit 5 5 A Fedayeen suicide bomber kills five Iraqis.
2012.12.17 Iraq Baqubah 3 10 Islamic Army of Iraq bombers send three civilians to Allah.
2012.12.17 Iraq Khaldiyah 4 7 Jihadi car bombers take out four Iraqis.
2012.12.17 Iraq Baladruz 2 0 Two Kurds are blown to bits by Sunni bombers.
2012.12.17 Iraq Rutba 2 9 al-Qaeda send mortars into a town, killing two residents.
2012.12.17 Iraq Khaznah 7 12 A community of Shabak religious minorities is the target of a Sunni car bomb that leaves seven dead, mostly women and children.
2012.12.17 Iraq Kirkuk 2 0 Two al-Qaeda torture victims are found burned to death.
2012.12.17 Iraq Baghdad 11 40 Islamic Army of Iraq bombers slaughter eleven people at a car dealership.
2012.12.17 Thailand Narathiwat 2 5 Two people die from gunshot injuries after Muslims open fire on a group of Buddhist professionals.
2012.12.17 Pakistan Lakki Marwat 3 3 Sunni hardliners storm a security checkpost and kill three local defenders.
2012.12.17 Pakistan Karachi 2 0 Sectarian Jihadis wipe out two rival Shiites.
2012.12.17 Iraq Balad 6 18 Muslim 'insurgents' slaughter six Iraqis with a car bomb.
2012.12.17 Iraq Qara-Tabba 3 10 Islamists bomb a funeral for three civilians murdered the day before, killing at least three mourners.
2012.12.17 Iraq Tuz Khurmatu 4 21 Four people are taken out by Mujahideen bombers at a hospital.
2012.12.17 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 Islamists shoot a medical worker to death.
2012.12.16 Iraq Kirkuk 9 55 Determined Sunni bombers set a series of bombs outside two Shia mosques that leave nine worshippers dead, including two children.
2012.12.16 Iraq Tarmiya 3 4 Three local cops are machine-gunned by Muslim 'insurgents'.
2012.12.16 Libya Benghazi 4 0 Four police officers are killed during an attack by suspected Islamic militants.
2012.12.16 Iraq Qara-Tabba 3 0 A woman and child are among three Iraqis exterminated in their home by Mujahideen.
2012.12.16 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 26-year-old Buddhist woman is murdered by Muslim 'separatist' gunmen.
2012.12.16 Yemen Hadramout 1 0 Suspected al-Qaeda gunmen kill a man on a motorcycle.
2012.12.16 Iraq Jalula 2 15 al-Qaeda bombers murder two police recruits.
2012.12.15 Pakistan Peshawar 5 45 Islamic militants fire rockets into an airport, killing at least five civilians.
2012.12.15 Pakistan Makan Bagh 1 0 A 16-year-old girl dies in a hospital from an earlier Taliban blast targeting schoolgirls.
2012.12.14 Somalia Mogadishu 3 3 Three people are left dead after an al-Shabaab car bomb.
2012.12.14 Pakistan Lahore 2 0 A 24-year-old woman is shot to death along with her lover by her conservative brother.
2012.12.14 Iraq Samarrah 2 20 Sunni bombers kill two Shia pilgrims in an attack on their bus.
2012.12.14 Nigeria Kano 1 0 Boko Haram is suspected of assassinating a local lawmaker.
2012.12.14 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 Boko Haram Islamists murder a man in front of his wife and children.
2012.12.13 Pakistan Karachi 2 0 A father of two is among two Shiites picked off by Sunni snipers.
2012.12.13 Pakistan Quetta 1 1 A Shiite is brought down in a targeted attack by Sunnis.
2012.12.13 Pakistan Quetta 2 0 Lashkar-e-Jhangvi gunmen take out two sectarian rivals at a tailor shop.
2012.12.13 Iraq Baghdad 6 8 Holy Warriors set off two car bombs in populated areas which leave six dead.
2012.12.13 Pakistan Mastung 1 0 A Hindu doctor is murdered by an Islamic fanatic.
2012.12.13 Afghanistan Kandahar 2 15 Two civilians and a US soldier are blown up by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2012.12.13 Syria Qatana 24 30 Women and children are among two dozen innocents slaughtered by a Sunni 'rebel' car bomb attack on a residential neighborhood.

 

Paulo R. (13)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 9:12 pm
Criticisms of Israeli policies come from several groups: Jewish and Arab activists within Israel and from the Jewish diaspora, the United Nations and other non-governmental organizations, and mass media. Since 2003, the UN has issued 232 resolutions with respect to Israel, 40% of all resolutions issued by the UN over the period and more than six times that of the second placed country, Sudan.

Israel maintained its military blockade of Gaza, imposed in 2007; the blockade prolonged the humanitarian crisis faced by Gaza’s 1.6 million residents, more than 70 per cent of whom were dependent on humanitarian aid. A near-complete ban on exports continued, stifling the economy, and severe restrictions on imports fuelled shortages and high prices. The blockade constituted collective punishment – a breach of international law – and particularly affected children and the sick. The Israeli authorities hindered or prevented hundreds of patients from leaving Gaza to obtain medical treatment. Source: Amnesty International.

The main expression of U.S. support for Israel has been foreign aid. Since 1985, it has provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel, with Israel being the largest cumulative recipient of aid since World War II.

 

Alexander Werner (53)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 9:14 pm
Presenting SATIRE article as news!!!

Bravo, Abdessalam.

Onion News is a site for Jokes

Your anti-Israel bias gets you pick up any garbage on the Internet, even jokes planted to show how ridiculous mentality of some peole can be.
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 9:20 pm
No slop, hyperbole, base propaganda, outright lies, and even satire are too low for Israel-haters. Most of it's projection. Muslims project onto Israel the way they and their anti-Semite friends think.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 9:22 pm
The sad part of this joke, is that so many people can take such nonsense for granted.

Then they go and blew up innocent people trusting that as a reward for the murder they commit that will get laid with 72 virgins for free and forever.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 9:37 pm

From Lois:

"(I will say that I didn't note any harsh words from Abdessalam)"

True, and although I do not subscribe to any religion -- although I was raised as a Christian, but have since discarded from my personal consideration all organized religions, while respecting the rights of others to believe as they wish . . . with the over-riding beliief that "Your rights end where mine begin" -- Abdessalam has always had my respect. He holds himself with dignity, states his opinion politely and with historical back-up, and -- even in the den of lions, who would make every attempt to dismantle his calm commitment -- has remained cogent and forgiving.

(HELL, I wish *I* had as much composure and control as this, to-be-admired example of a discerning and forthright human being.)

He understands that, to paintall members of ANY group with a broad, sweeping brush, and deny them the human right of being exclusively oneself, with free will and choices, is not only ridiculous -- but it is egocentric (in that the proclaimer has been self-seated as "judge) and it is that same thinking that promulgates wars (with the sanctimonious self-righteousness of "protecting" the rights of others).

I have visited so many of these conversations, wherein I have read lengthy "talking points" of why one adherent's ideology and choice of religion is undeserving of fair consideration; and because of that sanctimoniousness, the tut-tut self-appointed judge has assumed the right of negating that person's eligibility to be taken seriously.

(This sounds too eerily similar to the Salem Witch Trials.)

For pity's sake, EVERY opinion has equal rights in a democratic forum.

And, because we agree/reaffirm to abide by them daily -- when signing in -- we also have the obligation of not personally attacking another member's human and civil . . . and Care2 Code of Conduct rights . . . to address the issues presented (but NOT the person doing so).

Hats off to you, Abdessalam!

 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 9:45 pm

And, I wish to point out that this article -- and the issue presented -- has NOTHING to do with Muslims.

 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 9:58 pm

Further, there seems to be much confusion here about the definition of "ad hominem." For clarification, I offer the following:
 
Definition of AD HOMINEM
 
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
 
2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
 
 
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 10:02 pm
Well since most of the criticisms, like Abd's, are predujiced and about as balanced as a two legged chair, and most of it comes from the Islamic world... I'm just saying...

Sounds like you're taking it a little personally....

And the criticism's hitting a little too close to home
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 10:09 pm

WHY would I take it personally???

I've already said that I am a non-believer in ANY religion.

What I'm taking personally is the personal assault on a member of Care2, for spurious reasons, although that member has NOT exhibited any ot the prejudices to which he has been subjected.

I have no dog in this war of religious ideologies.

Quite simply, I feel a human obligation to call it like I see it.

 

Lee Hampton (15)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 10:15 pm
The imbalanced attacks on Israel are totally out of proportion to the way the Arab/Muslim world behaves, and is most often leveled by members of that world and equally unbalanced followers, regardless of their origins.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 10:16 pm

And, in case you missed it (and I already stated) . . .

This is NOT about religion!

To quote Homer Simpson: "Duh!"

 

Lee Hampton (15)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 10:20 pm
Oh, but it very, very, very much is, even if you're not honest enough to admit it, or too ignorant to know it.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 10:35 pm

And (honestly) this questioning of the actions of, more appropriately, Zionists is not anti-Semitic.

Why? Because it has NOTHING to do with Judaism.

It is more about the ideological actions of leaders, who despite the questioning of their own citizens, continue to take an imperialistic path that is unfair to any who disagree.

It is about power, and misuse of the same. It applies to ALL nations who pursue domination, without regard for their victims (i.e. the innocents who are merely trying to protect their families and adherence to their own rights to religious leanings without persecution.)

I, and others who think likewise, are not alone in this battle for the demand of humanity and recognition of core values.


 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 10:38 pm

As to your more recent comment, Lee . . .
 
Definition of AD HOMINEM
 
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
 
2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
 

 

jo M. (3)
Saturday January 12, 2013, 11:27 pm
Good grief, anyone reading even the title of this should immediately suspect satire. It seems people are so eager to believe the worst about some things, in this case Israel, that they fail to engage their brains. Time for a good healthy dose of skepticism, so c'mon people, open wide.
 

Tommy S. (11)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 1:51 am
@abdessalam
you quote.." The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace."
(al-Furqan 25: 63) ...Unquote

--Did you not know
---that this is a meccan sura (from when old mo had about 20 followers and this was merely to con Christians and Jews and others into believing he was a true messenger of his god) but they didn't fall for it and that this verse has been abrogated---------------Of course you did
-- the duality of islam when in a position of weakness quote the abrogated Mecca verses but when in strength quote Medina or just lie your boots off.


sura 9:5 Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the
Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikűn wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As- Salât
(Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is
Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Note the :-
" then kill the Mushrikűn wherever you find them"

defined by tafsir as
then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them, means,"ON THE EARTH IN GENERAL" (emphasis mine) and capture them, executing some and keeping some as prisoners, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush, ---do not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, THEY WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO DIE OR EMBRACE ISLAM (emphasis mine)
 

Ros G. (91)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 2:29 am
Because World War 3 has already broken out on this thread. I'm hedging my bets (which is what any good Aussie would do) I signed the Petition Abdessalam -thank you - and happy to point out that I was almost the 30,000 signature. If Onion/Union is a satire site - I enjoy satire too. What's the problem - life's too short - this is not a war game -it's real life or as some of you perfer real death.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 5:21 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Ros because you have done so within the last week.

Yes I can thanks Ros.
 

Ge M. (218)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 5:37 am
Abdesalam only picked this article as it appears to be anti-Israel.

Why are you not out there objecting to the Morsi/Muslim Brotherhood dictatorship who has removed the legal system, democracy and any human rights that existed especially for Christians? Also, the introuduction of terrorists and allowing them into Gaza to encourage more atrocities against Palestinians and Israelis. There was always a double standard there but he, who complains about Israel, totally ignores the terrible abuses in Egypt. Then there is the paedophilia, the "legalised" prostitution where parents sell their daughter into short-term marriages and, of course, the public approval of slaves.

Double standards & hypocrisy, as normal, from an Egyptian and Carole. Human rights, unacceptable abuses and common decency are missing here.

Someone who supports these atrocities does not have the right to criticise any other country. Put Egypt right first, set the standard.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 5:58 am
Did you guys not realise that Just Carole et al are the ONLY ones on this thread to dish out AD HOMINEM attacks and 'Zionism', Israelis and Judaism the ONLY allowable fair-game targets?

Ha, ha .. since when are YOU, Just Carole the 'expert' on what is and is NOT Judaism? Since my rabbi, many other rabbis even the Chief Rabbi of Israel said that there is NO conflict between Zionism and Judaism -- why on EARTH should I take your word for it over theirs?!?

Can you, Just Carole even point out ONE thing about Zionism that is not based in Judaism? No, you can't. Because there is NONE ..
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 6:01 am
Ros G. (33)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 2:29 am
happy to point out that I was almost the 30,000 signature

~~~~~~~~~~

Ros, please don't tell me that just because there were 30,000+ who partook in the holocaust, that you are 'happy' to partake and be one of 'them'?!?
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 6:09 am

Hello . . . AGAIN this article is NOT about Judaism OR Islam.

Since there are certain people (baiters) here, who no matter how many times it's explained to them that the subject in this forum is: "ISRAEL VOWS TO VETO CHUCK HAGEL AND IMPOSE HER MAN," and they refuse to address the real topic, the only option left is to ignore them.

It's monotonous.

 

Ge M. (218)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 6:18 am
Carole, so are you. You won't respond to questions on the subject so what are the people supposed to do to get an answer?

In the meantime, I dare you and Abdesalam to turn up on these news stories and condemn the Muslims. If I bet someone that you wouldn't, I'd win.

Christians Flee Mali as the Country is Taken Over by Islamic Extremists

Google

Islamic Extremists Advance South as Christian Persecution Increases in Mali

Google

Islamist sect in Nigeria grows more deadly

Google

Why was the Christian Somalian killed?

Google
 

Ge M. (218)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 6:20 am
Oops, typos

Christians Flee Mali as the Country is Taken Over by Islamic Extremists

http://www.care2.com/news/member/100661215/3514468

Islamic Extremists Advance South as Christian Persecution Increases in Mali

http://www.care2.com/news/member/100661215/3514469

Islamist sect in Nigeria grows more deadly

http://www.care2.com/news/member/100661215/3514470

Why was the Christian Somalian killed?

http://www.care2.com/news/member/100661215/3514472
 

Ge M. (218)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 6:23 am
Carole, are you ever going to answer the ontopic questions that I have asked you or are you just going to continue to ignore them?

You see, you can say that the comments are not on topic and refuse to answer them but why do you not answer the ones which ARE on topic? Does it mean that you cannot condemn violence and lies? You prefer to ignore human rights abuses? And, if you ignore this as not on topic, it is because I am asking why you have not answered the ontopic comments/questions? And, you made the comment so I am on topic.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 6:25 am
Gillian
A long time ago I got an advice from a wise man who told me that "The best way to deal with ignorants is to ignore them. If they continue..Then let them bark."
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 7:04 am
Thanks for the list of articles Gillian! In soo many countries, Christians are being persecuted -- it is shocking:

Christians Flee Mali as the Country is Taken Over by Islamic Extremists


Islamic Extremists Advance South as Christian Persecution Increases in Mali


Islamist sect in Nigeria grows more deadly


Why was the Christian Somalian killed?
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 7:09 am
Gillian Miller (210)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 6:23 am
Does it mean that you cannot condemn violence and lies? You prefer to ignore human rights abuses? And, if you ignore this as not on topic, it is because I am asking why you have not answered the on topic comments/questions? And, you made the comment so I am on topic.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Send a Green Star to Gillian Miller
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"

You cannot currently send a star to Gillian because you have done so within the last week.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 7:15 am
Abdessalam,

Ask that wise man what to do when people take a joke from a satiric web site and post it as real news.

Ask him how to treat people who take any anti-Israel nonsense for granted.

I hope he doesn't tell you to go blew up some innocent people and get a reward of 72 virgins for free and forever.

 

Vlasta M. (7)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 7:20 am
It is the politically correct apologists for Islam and Muslims who are ignoramuses and liars, practicing their taqiyya-the Islamic principle of lying, which CAIR, ISNA and other Muslim organizations in the West are practicing with the help of the biggest taqiyya practitioner of all: Barack Hussein Obama, who is subverting US constitution and the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights in order to cover up what Islam REALLY teaches its followers of a pedophile, polygamist, rapist, and murderer Mohamed (according to their own sources of history).

Islamic teachings themselves are incompatible with either US Constitution and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and its supremacist ideology of hate of non-Muslims is similar to supremacist Nazi ideology, including its delusional Jew hatred and blaming Jews for problems that Muslims had been creating around the world with their jihad against Western civilization and with their terrorist activities.
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 9:27 am
I bet ol' Abdessalam would gleefully note and/or post all the criminally false big lie stories, too, like Jews drink the blood of little Muslim boys or put it into their Passover matzah or that Jews are trying to take over the world (when Islam very clearly has said it is over and over). Such is such deep and perverse hatred.

Posting something like this from a clearly satirical paper, shows his eagerness to buy into anything bad about Israel and his lack of objectiveness,judgment about reality or lack thereof, and credibility.

 

Mary P. (157)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 10:49 am
Zionism and Judaism – Let Us Define Our Terms
(The key to peace in the Middle East and why Torah-True Jews are opposed to Zionism)


The following is the text of a talk delivered by Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss at the United Association for Studies and Research Studies (UASR), publishers of the Middle East Affairs Journal. The lecture was part of a round table discussion, held on March 14 2002 and hosted by MEAJ editor-in-chief, Dr. Ahmed Yousef.
My task today is to speak about Judaism and Zionism. Given the current assumptions of the mass media that seems to be a redundant title. Aren’t the two one and the same? Isn’t Judaism Zionism? Aren’t Jews by definition Zionists? This is an impression which is, as I hope will become absolutely clear by the end of this talk, totally false. It is, however, an impression that is today quite widespread, both among non – Jews as well as misinformed Jews.

The correction of the historical record in the case of any falsification is beneficial, for, as is well known, the “seal of the Creator is truth.” In the case of Zionism it is not merely an academic error. It is one that has caused much death and destruction in the past and will only continue to do so in the future, G-d forbid, if it is left uncorrected. In fact, it is my hope and prayer that today’s talk will be the first step of a process which may yet lead to a just solution to the Middle East’s agony or, at least, a
significant easing of its people’s suffering.

Triumph of Falsity
But first we must ask a simple question. Why has the lie, which equates Judaism and Zionism, triumphed? Why, has what is so demonstrably false, captured the citadels of Western public opinion? And, in the end, what can we do about it? History is invariably written by those who emerge victorious from its struggles. In the case of the Zionist/Palestinian struggle of the past century this factor immediately places the Israeli state, its
propagandists and international apologists, in the ideological driver’s seat.

Second, the suffering of the Jewish people in the Second World War in Europe created extraordinary sympathy among the peoples of the earth and it was this sincere and commendable sympathy that has been
incessantly exploited by the Zionist propaganda machine since 1945.

Last, Zionist propagandists are always given to bullying tactics and censorship. It is very helpful in this regard to read former Congressman Findley’s book, They Dared to Speak Out. It is the sorry record of the
immense resources that the Zionist lobby invested in destroying the careers of politicians all across the United States who had voiced some qualms about this nation’s subservience to Israel.

Of course, anti - Zionist Jews of all political and religious orientations have long experienced the lash of the Zionist movement. In 1924, a scholarly Dutch Jew, Dr. Jacob Israel de Hahn, who functioned as a secretary of Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld (1849 - 1932 ) Chief Rabbi of Palestine, (may their memories be blessed) was murdered as he returned from evening prayers outside Shaarui Zedek hospital in Jerusalem. His crime was that he had been involved in discussions with Arab leaders that offered an alternative to Zionist hegemony. His murderers were members of the Haganah, a Zionist, so - called “defense organization.” In fact, Dr. de Hahn may well be described as the first victim of Zionist violence
in the Holy Land.

Yet, outside of a limited circle of anti - Zionist Jews, this cowardly and cold blooded murder is completely unknown.

Equally unknown to the general public was the ease with which Zionists turned on their fellow Jews, as in the sinking of Jewish refugee ships calculated to elicit world sympathy such as the S.S. Patria in 1940 and the
S. S. Struma in 1941 which cost the lives of 276 innocent Jews in the case of the former and 769 in the case of the latter.

More is known about pre - state terror campaigns against Arab and British innocents. Clearly, this was a movement that found human life cheap and public criticism intolerable.

Fortunately, though, Zionism is missing the most potent weapon in any ideology’s arsenal. It doesn’t have the truth on its side.

Thus, we find that, today, despite the power of the Zionist lobby and the subservience, until recently, of most politicians, media outlets and educational settings here in America, to its dictates, the historical blackout is coming to an end.

More and more people are questioning the Zionist version of history. At the United Nations and throughout Europe the questions have already been raised and largely answered. The answers are a variety of criticisms of the Israeli state. Some of these center on Israel’s practices. Others point to its underlying philosophy.

Neturei Karta International has always been in the forefront of those voices that have been raised in opposition to Zionism.

Our opposition has taken us around the world, to Yemen and Iran, to South Africa and Geneva to attend this past year’s UN Conference on Racism (and I believe we have copies available of the talks delivered there).

Our supporters have stood up to Zionist censorship and terror in the streets of Jerusalem, Manhattan, London, Manchester, Montreal and wherever Orthodox Jewish communities may be found. But, we are getting ahead of ourselves. In order to understand the sources of the current pain in the Middle East, we must define our terms. What is Judaism and what is Zionism?

Definitions
Judaism is the faith of the Jewish people. It is rooted in the revelation at Sinai where the Torah was given by G-d to man. The doctrines and laws there revealed to the Jewish people are forever binding. Throughout the
centuries Jewish scholars and saints have explained the Law. Those explanations are also part of our tradition.

This definition of Judaism was universally accepted by the Jewish people until the dawn of the so called Enlightenment in Europe. In the wake of that mass abandonment of G-d, many Jews, as well as many Christians and Muslims around the world, came to reject their faiths.

It was in the spirit of creating a man - made religion that movements such as Reform, Conservative and Reconstructionist Judaism were born. These movements had in common that they rejected some, many or all the
basics of Torah faith.

Exile and Redemption
One of the central tenets of Torah is that the Creator rewards and punishes mankind.

Through many of the Prophetic books in the Old Testament the Jewish people were warned that a serious rebellion against the Will of G-d would result in the most severe of punishments. Unchecked it could lead to the ruin of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and the exile of the entirety of the Jewish nation.

And, it is here, my friends, in those Old Testament prophesies, that the quarrel between Judaism and Zionism begins.

Eventually the horrors foretold by the Prophets came to pass. Jewry was exiled from the Land. The first exile, also known as the Babylonian captivity, lasted only 70 years. By a series of miraculous events the people were returned to the land. This second entry into the land led to the rebuilding of the Temple. The Second Temple stood from about 2500 years ago until about 1900 years ago, then it too was destroyed. This time the cause was once again the backsliding of the people who were, as
always, held to a very demanding Divine standard.

But the prophecies of doom were accompanied with promises of consolation. The exile would not be forever. There would be years of dispersion, many of them endured under persecution. Yet, there was the promise that the people would yet return to the Land. But this return was not to be under human control. It would be heralded by the advent of Elijah the Prophet and accompanied with many miracles. And, this time, the redemption would not just be for the Jewish people but, rather for all men. All nations would cease to practice war. All would rejoice together in the Creator’s care.

There would be no want or physical deprivation. It would be a time of spiritual brotherhood, all men united in Divine service. Thus, at the burning of the Second Temple, the Jewish people were sent into an exile which extends till today. For two thousand years Jews have prayed for the
end of their exile and the accompanying redemption of the entire world. They were taught by the Prophets and subsequent Sages that their exile was an expiation of their sins. This meant that the only reasonable and
permissible path to end the exile were repentance and prayer.

To suggest that one could use political or military means to escape the Creator’s decree was seen as heresy, as a denial of the Divine stewardship over sin and forgiveness. And, so, as the centuries rolled by the Jewish people prayed and awaited the miraculous events of redemption.

Throughout these long years no Jew anywhere suggested – and this among a people that studied its sacred texts constantly and wrote about them voluminously – that exile could be ended by human means.

The Holy Land was always venerated, of course, and small colonies, almost uniformly devoted to prayer, contemplation and study were established there.

It was only towards the end of the nineteenth century, among Jews far estranged from their faith that the notion began to be put forth that exile was the result of Jewish weakness. Theodore Herzl and a handful of others, all ignorant or non observant of Torah began to set the process in motion that by the end of the next century would have produced untold suffering for Jews and Palestinians.

 

Mary P. (157)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 10:50 am
Rabbinic Opposition
These early Zionists were immediately opposed by the Rabbinic Leadership of that era.

The opposition was based on four assumptions.

1) The very concept of Zionism was a refutation of the traditional Torah belief in exile as punishment and redemption and as dependant on penitence and Divine intervention.

2) The Zionists were overwhelmingly irreligious. There claim to represent the Jewish people before the world was preposterous. How can those who
reject Judaism be Jewish leaders? Their natural instincts were to uproot Torah and its observance.

3) Zionism was woefully unconcerned about non – Jews in general and
the Palestinian people already living in the land. Its heavy - handed policies were sure to cause much pain and suffering and lead world Jewry into needless conflict with the nations of the world.

4) Zionism would cause Jews to be less than loyal to the governments under whose auspices they lived in exile. This might weaken Jewish patriotism and exacerbate Jewish – Gentile conflicts.

Throughout the world Zionists were a minority.

Even those Jews who had lost touch with Torah tradition were able to see that Zionism was a recipe for disaster.

Within the Zionist movement itself a tiny faction constantly criticized both the Labor and Revisionist mainstreams. This small group, associated with the Brit Shalom movement, advocated a bi – national democratic state and was willing to accept Jewish minority status therein. In the words of one of its foremost thinkers, Judah Magnes, Chancellor of Hebrew University, “If we cannot find ways of peace and understanding (with the
indigenous population), if we can only establish ourselves upon the force of bayonets, then our whole enterprise is not worthwhile and it is better that the eternal people should remain patient and wait.”

These were the words of a non – believer but of essential decency. His ideas and those of his small band of followers were cast aside by the Zionist mainstream.

Of course, in the Torah view the very notion of Jewish sovereignty of any kind over the Holy Land is forbidden. We note that even those who desired some degree of Jewish return – saw this – provided they had some basic decency, as something that had to be worked out with the approval of the native Palestinian people.

Zionist immigration poured into Palestine during the twenties and thirties. The British government tried to be all things to all men but their efforts failed. At times the Zionist conquest via immigration became an actual
shooting conquest with acts of terror against Palestinians, British and other Jews becoming the order of the day.

But, despite Zionist machinations, if not for the tragic fate of the Jews in the Second World War the state of Israel probably would never have come into existence.

As stated before, after the Holocaust, the world took its sense of pity for the Jewish people and bestowed it on the Zionists.

Little if any thought was given to the deep and just desire of Palestinians to be a sovereign people in their own land or to the anti – Zionist Jews living therein.

It was as if a man having been chased from his home by a mob comes upon someone else’s else home and decides to chase out its inhabitants and take it over.

Surely the suffering the man has endured at the hands of the mob is not enough for another family to be evicted from their centuries old place of residence.

I have little doubt that if a Palestinian people, sovereign in its own land, would have been asked after the Holocaust, along with the other nations of the world, to take in Jewish refugees that they would have easily
agreed. But they could not be expected to abandon, their homes and property and their very identity to make way for hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees whose goal was to dispossess them and rule over them.
Throughout the twentieth century a large segment of Orthodox Jews has remained immune to Zionist temptation. Unfortunately, during this same period, some orthodox Jews actually embraced Zionism while others attempted to co – exist with it.

Those who have maintained our faith as it was handed down to us over the centuries have fought Zionism in the Holy Land and throughout the world.

These Jews, many of whose descendants live in Jerusalem to this day, have refused to recognize the Zionist state. They do not vote in its elections or serve in its army. They do not accept any financial support from the government for their schools, thus plunging their schools into a never ending fund raising crisis.

In their view the state of Israel exists in violation of Torah basics. In its daily policies it wars against Torah practice. Its claim to represent the Jewish people is vile and ludicrous. By positing non - believers as Jewish
leaders it desecrates G-d’s Great and Holy Name in public, a very grave sin in the eyes of the Torah.

The pious Jews of whom Neturei Karta is only one of many are seasoned veterans in the anti - Zionist struggle. We, of all people know how hard it is to break through the media black out, especially in the United
States.

Yet, we must break through if there is to be any real peace in the Middle East. We have been informed by our Talmudic sages that any premature attempt to end exile will result in massive bloodshed.

The bloodshed is here. Israel has caused more bloodshed than anyone could have possibly imagined.

Decades before the state the Zionist desire to rule over the land led to riots, assassinations and endless death and suffering.

To this day the death toll mounts. Both hardliners and soft liners have had their hopes dashed. They have both been behind the wheels of government. And both have failed utterly.

Friends, there will be no peace in the Middle East until their is no state of Israel.

The Torah cannot be violated. Our task in exile cannot be fulfilled by trying to end exile by human agitations. Nor can our hopes for redemption be realized in the Israeli state.

Of course immediately part of the solution is, we’d like to see the West Bank and Gaza settlements dismantled. The people living there must leave as soon as is humanly possible.

But, this is only one part of the solution. Yes, the immediate decision in keeping with common sense, is to begin a Palestinian state. But these solutions are only for the interim and only a part of the solution.

The true Torah solution, the key to peace is the immediate return of Palestine to the Palestinians in its entirety including the Temple Mount and Jerusalem.

This would, of course, include a full right of return for all Palestinian refuges That is what elementary justice demands. This is the path of the Torah and of common sense.

The Jewish people have many mitzvos (commandments) to pursue in their exile. Fighting and killing Palestinian children are not among them.

Of course, today, millions of Jews reside in Palestine. Whether some, all or none of them might stay under Palestinian rule is, of course, up to the land’s rightful rulers, the Palestinians.

This will inevitably begin the process of true peace with justice and healing between the Palestinian people and the Jewish people.

In the meantime, though, given that at present many Jews living in the Holy Land are victims of Zionist propaganda what path should be pursued?
For our part the obligation remains steady. It is to educate the Jewish community about the doctrinal errors and practical evils of Zionism.

It is to join our Palestinian cousins in protest against the evils of Zionism. It is to pursue peace with all men and all nations. It is to practice our faith. It is to worship the Creator with humility, with modesty and piety.
But let us go a step further and examine what the impact of Jewish anti Zionism might be on the Islamic world. First, it is important both practically and morally that Palestinian and general Islamic ideology not confuse Zionism and Judaism and by so doing leave themselves vulnerable to the charge of anti - Semitism.

Further, it could well prove beneficial to the Palestinian cause if they would publicize thier good relations with anti Zionist Jews thus undercutting the
stereotype of them in the Zionist dominated media as bigots and baseless haters.

This coalition of anti - Zionist Jews and Palestinians who see the inhumanity of Zionism might well become quite a moral force for good in the world.

In any event, let us resolve to leave here this evening with our mutual moral compasses set right. Let us understand that Torah Jewry is in no way an antagonist of the Palestinian people in particular or of the Islamic
world in general.

The hour is late. The civilian death toll mounts daily. Innocents on all sides suffer.

May it be the Creator’s Will that the state of Israel be peacefully dismantled speedily in our days, that Jew and Palestinian live yet in peace with each other around the world and in the Holy Land and that speedily in our days all mankind may merit the advent of Divine Redemption where G-d’s Kingdom will be accepted.

 

Mary P. (157)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 10:56 am
http://www.zionismbook.com/ - book 'Zionism - The Real Enemy of the Jews' by Alan Hart.

Almost everything you've been conditioned to believe about the making and sustaining of conflict in and over Palestine that became Israel is not true.

It's not true that all the Palestinians who became refugees in 1948 left their homeland voluntarily. Most were driven out by Zionist terrorism and ethnic cleansing.

It's not true that Israel has lived in constant danger of annihilation, the "driving into the sea" of its Jews. Israel's existence has never, ever, been in danger.

And it's not true that Israel never had Arab partners for peace. It's Zionism that has never been interested in peace on terms the vast majority of Palestinians and most other Arabs and Muslims everywhere could accept.

Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews is a journey through the propaganda lies and truth of history.

When the citizens of nations know the difference between Zionism's propaganda lies and the documented facts and truth of history, they will be empowered, if they care, to demand that their governments act to end Israel's oppression of the Palestinians. And that's why Alan Hart devoted more than five years of his life to researching and writing this book - to empower citizens to play their necessary part in stopping the countdown to catastrophe for all.

Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews is a complete re-writing of the history of the making and sustaining of the conflict, replacing Zionist mythology with events as they actually happened. The events are given global context to enable all readers to see how all the pieces of the most complex and complicated jig-saw puzzle fit together.

The insight Alan brings to the pages of this book is assisted by revelations from private conversations he had over the years with leaders on both sides of the conflict, including the two greatest opposites in all of human history - Golda Meir, Mother Israel, and Yasser Arafat, Father Palestine.

Written in his down-to-earth, television reporting and conversational style, the book reads more like a novel than a conventional history. It will keep you turning the pages wanting to know more.

It has two central themes.

One is why Western support of Israel right-or-wrong has made the whole Arab and wider Muslim world an explosion of anger and humiliation waiting for its time to happen.

The other is how Israel, the child of Zionism, became its own worst enemy and a threat not only to the peace of the region and the world, but also to the best interests of Jews everywhere and the moral integrity of Judaism itself.

The key to understanding, the author writes, is knowledge of the difference between Judaism and Zionism. He explains: "Judaism is the religion of Jews, not 'the' Jews because not all Jews are religious. Like Christianity and Islam, Judaism has at its core a set of moral values and ethical principles. Zionism is Jewish nationalism in the form of a sectarian, colonial enterprise which, in the process of creating and then expanding in the Arab heartland a state for some Jews, made a mockery of Judaism's moral values and ethical principles and demonstrated contempt for international law and the human and political rights of the Palestinians. That's why, for example, Nazi holocaust survivor Dr. Hajo Meyer titled his latest book An Ethical Tradition Betrayed, The End of Judaism."

The author adds: "Supporters of Israel right or wrong conflate Judaism and Zionism because the assertion that they are one and the same enables them to claim that criticism of the Zionist state of Israel is a manifestation of anti-Semitism. Often, almost always these days, the accusation that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism is false. And this false charge is the blackmail card played to silence criticism of, and suppress informed and honest debate about, the Zionist state and its policies. The reality is that Judaism and political Zionism are total opposites, and knowledge of the difference is the key to understanding two things. One is why it is perfectly possible to be passionately anti-Zionist - opposed to Zionism's colonial enterprise - without being in any way, shape or form anti-Semitic (anti-Jew). The other is why it is wrong to blame all Jews everywhere for the crimes of the hard core Zionist few in Palestine that became Israel."


Author's Appeal...

"The Zionist lobby in all of its manifestations is putting shocking and awesome effort into limiting distribution of this book and suppressing the informed and honest debate it was written to promote. The less this attempt to keep the truth of history hidden is successful, the more likely it will be that peace can have a last chance."

Consider not only buying this book for yourself but as a gift for others, to assist the mobilisation of people power (democracy in action) for justice and peace
 

Mary P. (157)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 11:00 am
People of the world please search 'is zionism the same as judaism' or 'zionism and judaism'! and read answers for yourselves!!
 

Mary P. (157)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 11:30 am
Alexandra "Can you, Just Carole even point out ONE thing about Zionism that is not based in Judaism? No, you can't. Because there is NONE "

Sorry to disappoint you my dear!! All my research was especially for you! )))hugs(((
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 11:33 am

Thank you so much for this enlightening information, Mary! (Unfortunately, it is too early for me to bestow another green star on you.)

If only others would dedicate more time to researching the truth, in particular, as presented by a teacher (rabbi) of their own faith.



 

Mary P. (157)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 11:59 am
http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/zionism/index.cfm -link for "Zionism and Judaism – Let Us Define Our Terms
(The key to peace in the Middle East and why Torah-True Jews are opposed to Zionism)"
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 12:21 pm
Mary P, my rabbi, many rabbis I know, even the Chief Rabbi of Israel, so many other Torah-True Jews, myself including are NOT opposed to Zionism ..

So you think the 'key' to peace in the ME is to have a 'final solution' for all of the Torah-True Zionist Jews? A rhetorical question, no need to answer ..
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 12:21 pm
Philip Klein: Chuck Hagel nomination shows AIPAC's limits
January 9, 2013 | 6:00 pm

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, is often described as one of the most powerful lobbying groups in Washington. Its backers tout its efforts to maintain strong ties between the United States and Israel, while its critics see it as the central player in a plot to control U.S. foreign policy.

But President Obama's decision to nominate Chuck Hagel as his secretary of defense has exposed the limits of AIPAC's influence and mission.

Over the course of his career, Hagel has shown hostility toward the state of Israel in general, and toward AIPAC specifically. One of the main activities of AIPAC is to get members of Congress to sign letters taking stands on issues related to Israel. In a 2006 interview with Aaron David Miller, Hagel boasted about his courage in being one of a handful of senators who routinely refused to sign such letters, which he called "stupid." He complained that "the Jewish Lobby intimidates a lot of people up here."

Yet for all his opposition to signing letters circulated by the nefarious "Jewish lobby," in 2009, he had no problem signing onto a letter circulated by the U.S./Middle East Project asking Obama to open up talks with the terrorist group Hamas.

On Iran -- the largest threat to Israel today and a major focus of AIPAC's lobbying efforts -- Hagel has also been at odds with the pro-Israel community. He has not only condemned the idea of military action against Iran, he has opposed tough sanctions and instead has called for negotiations with the radical Islamic regime. This even though Iran has routinely used negotiations as a ploy to buy time for its nuclear program.

Obama can talk all he wants about all options being on the table to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, but his choice of Hagel signals to Iran that he isn't serious, effectively giving the regime a green light to develop a bomb.

Choosing Hagel as secretary of defense is the equivalent of Obama extending his arm and pointing his middle finger at AIPAC. But AIPAC has not taken a position on the appointment, not even to express concern. Marshall Wittmann, an AIPAC spokesman, responded in an email that "AIPAC does not take positions on presidential nominations."

There's also no evidence of the group twisting arms behind the scenes. "There is zero activity on the Hill from AIPAC," a Senate aide who is following the nomination closely told me.

Defenders of AIPAC argue that it is not a crusading political group that takes stands on nominees or candidates, but works with all sides to advance its policy goals. Under this line of thinking, the pro-Israel community isn't a monolithic "lobby" but a diverse collection of groups with different functions. The Emergency Committee for Israel and Christians United for Israel, for instance, are fighting hard against the Hagel nomination.

That said, the Hagel pick has brought to light a deeper challenge facing AIPAC. The organization prides itself on making support for Israel a bipartisan issue. Half of Congress attends its annual gala, and leaders of both parties speak at its policy conference, touting the "unbreakable bond" between the two countries.

But it's become increasingly difficult to maintain the facade of bipartisan support for Israel when both sides aren't equally supportive. A Pew poll released last month found that conservative Republicans sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians by a 75 percent to 2 percent margin. Among liberal Democrats, just 33 percent sympathized with Israel, compared with 22 percent who named Palestinians.

The gravity of Democratic politics, fueled by liberals who argue that the U.S. is too reflexively pro-Israel, is naturally pulling the party to a more critical posture toward our traditional ally. No matter what empty rhetoric Obama may spout out when he speaks at AIPAC conferences, the Hagel pick has exposed his true prerogatives.

In such an environment, this illusion that support for Israel is truly bipartisan is only defining down what it means to support Israel. If the Hagel pick is any indication, Obama's second term is going to be a challenging high-wire act for AIPAC.

(Disclosure: In 2008, the author took a trip to Israel funded by the AIPAC-linked American Israel Education Foundation.)

http://washingtonexaminer.com/philip-klein-chuck-hagel-nomination-shows-aipacs-limits/article/2518048#.UPMUVic4u8A

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 12:36 pm

So, because the Chief Rabbi said so . . . then, there is no need to independently do your own research???

Well, just because the Pope says something, doesn't mean that every Catholic believes it.

And, only a minority of the American public automatically believes what they read in mainstream media, or are told by politicians.

You asked for me to "point out ONE thing about Zionism that is not based in Judaism," and Mary, by citing SEVERAL conflicts of Zionism versus the Torah -- as presented by a studious rabbi -- has gone much further. (And I thank her for actually taking the time to do so.)

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 1:39 pm

Hmmmmmm . . . Now, doing some research of my own. (BTW, Alexandra, you DO have Google, don't you?)

Chief Rabbinate of Israel
 

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel (הרבנות הראשית לישראל) is recognized by law[1] as the supreme halakhic and spiritual authority for the Jewish people in Israel. The Chief Rabbinate Council assists the two chief rabbis, who alternate in its presidency. It has legal and administrative authority to organize religious arrangements for Israel's Jews. It also responds to halakhic questions submitted by Jewish public bodies in the Diaspora. The Council sets guides, and supervises agencies within its authority.

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel consists of two Chief Rabbis: an Ashkenazi rabbi and a Sephardi rabbi, also known as the Rishon leZion. The Chief Rabbis are elected for 10 year terms. The present Sephardi Chief Rabbi is Shlomo Amar and the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi is Yona Metzger, both of whom commenced their terms in 2003.

These are ELECTED positions????

 

Ros G. (91)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 1:39 pm
Alexandra R - I was born in Germany and we lost family in the Holocaust as well - but I don't expect the rest of the world to be held to ransom for it. That's what happens in war innocent people die and sometimes very cruelly - it is better not to "partake" in them in the first place.

 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 1:58 pm
Just Carole and Mary P. None of what Mary P wrote about Zionism is factual - it is simply conspiratorial imaginations. Looks like neither she nor your 'studious rabbi" has any clue as to what zionism is and is not. At the end of this comment I copy what zionism IS. Read it and it will be clear that there is NOTHING in zionism that is not based in Judaism ..

Just Carole and Mary P,

is your
(Just Carole (563) Sunday January 13, 2013, 12:36 pm)

"studious rabbi"

better than mine(several of mine)? Says who?

Did you miss that I included myself Just Carole? I do do my own independent research as well as reading the writings of MANY rabbis and other studious scriptural scholars ..
[Alexandra R. (306)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 12:21 pm
Mary P, my rabbi, many rabbis I know, even the Chief Rabbi of Israel, so many other Torah-True Jews, myself including are NOT opposed to Zionism .. "]

It is Mary P who only gave one rabbi's argument as her argument against zionism and expect us all to fall for it ..

Whether you like it or not, Judaism is a religion that fosters thinking for oneself, doing one's own research, and even disagreeing with others. In Judaism we're allowed to disagree. Thus disagreeing on whether zionism is or isn't interpreted as based on Judaism would be included in our freedoms. What is NOT allowed in Judaism is making up things like these conspiratorial imaginations as it is called 'bearing false witness' and prohibited in Torah/Judaism.

Luckily for us lot who do believe that zionism is based in Judaism: not your "studious rabbi" neither you Just Carole nor Mary P is the G-d of Israel .. else us lot would have the next 'final solution' designed by you guys to take care of us for daring to think differently to you as regards zionism being based on Judaism ..

In Altneuland, Herzl outlined his vision for a new Jewish state in the Land of Israel. Herzl summed up his vision for an open society:

"It is founded on the ideas which are a common product of all civilized nations… It would be immoral if we would exclude anyone, whatever his origin, his descent, or his religion, from participating in our achievements. For we stand on the shoulders of other civilized peoples. … What we own we owe to the preparatory work of other peoples. Therefore, we have to repay our debt. There is only one way to do it, the highest tolerance. Our motto must therefore be, now and ever: ‘Man, you are my brother.’" (Quoted in "Zion & the Jewish National Idea", in Zionism Reconsidered, Macmillan, 1970 PB, p.185)

In his novel, Herzl wrote about an electoral campaign in the new state. He directed his wrath against the nationalist party which wished to make the Jews a privileged class in Palestine. Herzl regarded that as a betrayal of Zion, for Zion was identical to him with humanitarianism and tolerance—that this was true in politics as well as in religion. Herzl wrote:

"Matters of faith were once and for all excluded from public influence. … Whether anyone sought religious devotion in the synagogue, in the church, in the mosque, in the art museum, or in a philharmonic concert, did not concern society. That was his [own] private affair." (Quoted in "Zion & the Jewish National Idea", in Zionism Reconsidered, Macmillan, 1970 PB, p.185)

Altneuland was written both for Jews and non-Jews: Herzl wanted to win over non-Jewish opinion for Zionism.[25] When he was still thinking of Argentina as a possible venue for massive Jewish immigration, he mentioned in his diary he

"When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly … It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire world a wonderful example … Should there be many such immovable owners in individual areas [who would not sell their property to us], we shall simply leave them there and develop our commerce in the direction of other areas which belong to us", "The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl", vol. 1 (New York: Herzl Press and Thomas Yoseloff, 1960), pp. 88, 90 hereafter Herzl diaries.
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 2:17 pm

It's obvious that there is NO amount of information that can be given to you that you will find acceptable. (And, frankly, I don't find you interesting enough -- and never did -- to waste my time in any further attempt to enlighten your so-called mind.)

“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”
― Benjamin Franklin
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 8:26 pm
Just Carole (563) Sunday January 13, 2013, 1:39 pm

These are ELECTED positions????

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They are appointments. An elected group of men and women conduct interviews on behalf of the Chief Rabbinate Trust and then appoint those with the best credentials.

In Israel it is important to have both an Ashkenazi and Sephardi Chief Rabbi as we're not only multi-cultural, mutli-religional but also have a mixture of Judaisms. All considered as equally valid authorities in Israel. We don't favour one branch of Judaism over another, in other words.

 

Alexander Werner (53)
Sunday January 13, 2013, 11:15 pm
Alexandra, you should add that Ashkenazi Jews don't blow up buses carrying Sefardi Jews to their holidays, and Sefardi Jews don't blow up Ashkenazi Jews during their weddings or funerals.

While different sects are different in culture, they live in peace with each other. Something that Arab nation should learn. Otherwise, this nonsense of having 22+1 Arab countries, half warring with each other and blowing up everyone different will continue.

I suggest Onion News publish another joke, this time about Brotherly Love in the One Arab World, and make Abdessalam happy again to post it to prove his points.

 

Ros G. (91)
Monday January 14, 2013, 12:06 am
NOVEMBER 4, 1995 Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated while leaving a Peace Rally in Tel Aviv - yes, Bob, they may not blow up buses etc as you put it but will murder a PM that dares think of peace with the Palestinians. No wonder they haven't had a Peace Leader since.
 

Stan B. (124)
Monday January 14, 2013, 1:45 am
Alexandra. For some reason the old adage about " feeding pigs truffles comes to mind."
Save your energy for something more worthwhile.
 

Ros G. (91)
Monday January 14, 2013, 3:00 am
Alexandra R take command from your Masters Bob and Stan I think they're telling you that you are way out of you're league. Rhetoric and diatribe can only go so far.... save it for the mindless. Green Stars to you both Bob A and Stan b. at least you had the guts to chastise her publicly.
 

Mary P. (157)
Monday January 14, 2013, 11:52 am
Alexandra, "It is Mary P who only gave one rabbi's argument as her argument against zionism and expect us all to fall for it'

Sorry!, Did you want words of more rabbi's? Well here goes a few more rabbi's words against zionism!

WORDS OF THE RABBIS
Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk, known as the Ohr Somayach

Quotes from Rabbi Yosef Rozen of Dvinsk, known as The Rogatchover
The following is a letter written in 1904 by Rabbi Yosef Rozen of Dvinsk, known as The Rogatchover:

Heaven forbid that we should test G-d and strive with him concerning the length of the Exile in order to be masters in the Holy Land.

To those who share these Zionist views but profess to be believers, whose lips drip with Torah and piety, I have this to say: Do you not know that Zionism and self-rule are VANITY AND PURSUIT OF EMPTINESS AND IMITATION? Why do you despise the Torah and stretch out your hand to transgressors tainted with HERESY, and why do you not consider in whose company you go?

How long will the Zionists be permitted to lead into a trap? One need not fear contention and discord with them, since they have already brought it about. In the book, Gates of Repentance, paragraph 59, we find 'HE WHO DOES NOT ENTER INTO CONFLICT WITH THOSE WHO STAND ON A BAD PATH IS PUNISHED FOR THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS AND FOR ALL THEIR SINS.

I have already written letters to those who ask whether there is any substance in the books of the Mizrachi rabbis Rabinovitz and Reines. I have replied that according to Jewish Law the two works of the above-mentioned rabbis are an abomination and desolation, according to the Torah.

May the day come when we are not subjugated and oppressed by HERETICS ORIGINATING FROM THE JEWISH PEOPLE - ESPECIALLY SEEING THAT THEY SPREAD EVIL TIDINGS ABOUT US.

Yosef Rozen


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The words of that great Gaon, Rabbi Joseph Rosen zt”l of Dvinsk were written in the middle of the year 5664:

English Translation:



“I have already received a number of letters on this subject from rabbis and communal workers seeking the good of Israel and I have replied to them. These wicked men offend the angels of God, distort the promises of the prophets and despise the warnings of our teachers not to hasten the end and to wait for the coming of the Righteous Redeemer.

They turn after their hearts and after their eyes. In vain do they profess to burn with the love of Israel and love of the Holy Land. They think that they can be wiser than their predecessors. The whole movement is in the hands of unstable and empty men and slaves delighting in lawlessness. They raise their head against all the Gedoilei Hadoir seeing that they have defied a weighty prohibition against this conduct.

There is a sacred duty incumbent upon us to keep our eyes open and to understand what can emerge from their denunciations and libels. Terror seized us on hearing the report that Dr. Herzl and his fellow conspirators had appeared before the German Emperor and his princes and had bowed before them in entreaty that they should influence the Sultan to sell the land of our foregathers to Jews and that, in this way, Jews should receive the favor and protection of the Germans.

They, the Zionists, pretend to be unaware of the grave calamities exceeding all the evils in the history of our exile in the Amalekite state in which the bitter poison of the hatred of Israel has forever prevailed and where the blood of our ancestors has been spilt in thousands and tens of thousands. Trespass and treachery are to be found in this boast that the mightiest, the noblest, the wisest and the most moral of all the peoples has consented to take the Zionist state beneath her wings and to protect her.

Whoever has been favoured with a little sense will understand that—Heaven forbid—in our days will be fulfilled the curse “and he who flees from the sound of fear will fall into the pit and he who rises from the midst of the pit will fall into the trap.” Do not the Zionists claim that they are forced to flee from the anti-Semites? There is a great danger that if the Germans obtain a foothold in the Zionists state, they will set the inhabitants of the country against its Jewish inhabitants. One cannot compare a people helpless and downcast with other people who are in apposition to make alliances with one another. According to what is reported, the German Emperor is not reckoned as an enemy of Israel, but the heart of a king is bound up with the heart of his people and whatever they desire will sway him. The conversation with Dr. Herzl with our Count Plehve was contemptible and abominable. According to what has been published, he told the count that if our Emperor—may his majesty be exalted—will stretch out a helping hand to the Zionists, his country will be freed from enemies, revolutionaries and rebels. In this way, Dr. Herzl has exceeded through his wickedness the efforts of all our enemies and persecutors and we should moan, lament and rend our garments that a sharp sword has been placed in the hands of our foes.

How can we arouse kindness and seek compassion among the nations if we are tainted with revolt? Yet all this is aimed at making Dr. Herzl king of Israel and his associates princes.

Heaven forbid that we should throw off the yoke of exile from upon our necks through violence, intrigue and entreaties. We must take it to heart and seek to realize the extend of the folly of these men who are wise in evil because it has not occurred to them that, if the land is conquered before the coming of the King of Peace, grievous wars will follow and one people will gore another.

Let them know that one soul in Israel is equal in worth to the earth and anyone who destroys one soul in Israel is as if he had destroyed the whole world.

I will therefore take my life in my hand and proclaim that until the promised Messiah comes and the Holy One, blessed be He, blows the great trumpet to proclaim our freedom, we have no right to rule in the Holy Land, and that the Zionist aspiration for governmental power is a rebellion against the peoples who dwell in it.

Heaven forbid that we should test the Lord and strive with Him concerning the length of the Exile in order to be masters in the Land.

To those who share these Zionist views but profess to be believers, and whose lips drip with Torah and piety, I have this to say: Do you not know that Zionism and self-rule are vanity and pursuit of wind and imitation? Is not the basic purpose of the Redemption and of our coming to the Land not one of dominion and wars and victories but one of peace so that the Shechinah may dwell in the midst of Jerusalem and to the Lord will be the dominion? Only then will our joy be complete and our security assured. Why then do you despise the Torah and stretch out your hands to transgressors tainted with heresy and why do you not consider in whose company you go?

All our predecessors unanimously held the view that anyone identified with the name of Israel, should he see his fellow man walking in a path that is not good or accepting counsel that is not seemly, as the duty of restoring him and of leading him to a path on which he will not stumble. Similarly, should he see an evil man oppress his fellow man and mislead him, he is bound to exert all his efforts to deliver the victim from his trouble. How much more can this be applied to a matter relating to the whole people seeing that through the Zionists the Exile will be prolonged and many calamities—Heaven forbid—revived. There can be no harm greater than to arouse conflicts with the nations and to make Israel feared as a source of revolt on the plea that the sould of the whole people is bitter on account of the Exile.

In my humble opinion it is seemly to collect and assemble delegations of our brethren from every state in order to consult together as to what should be done. How long will the Zionists be permitted to lead us into a trap? One need not fear contention and discord because they have already brought it about. In Shaarei Teshuvoh, paragraph 59, we find: “He who does not enter into conflict with those who stand upon a path which is not good, is punished for their transgressions and for all their sins!”

I am therefore compelled to go forth from my enclosure and have written at some length although I have not gone into the details of Dinim but have dealt only with simple matters that are easy for every man to understand, because I see Knesses Yisroel in danger as if a sword were lying on our necks and I would repeat my warning that only G-d can give rest to His people and that no man has this in his power.

I have already written letters to those who ask whether there is any substance in the books of Rabbinowitch and Reines and I have replied that according to the Halochoh the two works of the above mentioned rabbis are an abomination and a desolation, according to the Torah. It is false that the Zionists rejoice the heart of our brethren who regard themselves as miserable and poor mong the nations, and that Herzl and Nordau will raise their stature.

In truth, we must thank Shem Yisborach for the grace that the peoples are allowing us to fulfill the commands of our Torah. All our concern in Exile relates to the destruction of the Sanctuary and all our delight and hope is to be under the dominion of the Lord, to be holy and pure and not subjugated and oppressed by heretics originating from Israel—Heaven forbid—especially seeing that they spread evil tidings concerning us. Everyone with a soul should have compassion on himself and remove himself from them. May the Lord again have mercy on us for we are in great danger. The Lord have mercy.”

SOURCE: "The Transformation" The Voice of Torah, pp 196-204



Rabbi Chaim Soloveichik of Brisk
Rabbi Chaim Soloveichik of Brisk (1853-1918), the founder of the "yeshiva approach to Talmudic study," was frequently quoted by his disciples as saying:

"The Zionists do not make Jews heretics in order to have a state, they want a state in order to make Jews into heretics!"

Or, as he once wrote:

"The Jewish people have suffered many (spiritual) plagues -- the Sadducees, Karaites, Hellenisers, Shabbatai Zvi, Enlightenment, Reform and many others. But the strongest of them all is Zionism."

This hideous strength was later explained by his son, the Brisker Rav, Rabbi Velvel Soloveichik (1886-1960) as being due to the Zionists having "attacked the center point of Judaism.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is a letter written by Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchik, one of the greatest rabbis in Lithuania in the early part of the century:
Dear Rabbi Moshe Carpas:

I have also read your words in connection with the sect of the Zionists who are now powerfully banded together. I do not blush to admit that I do not know how to find paths to oppose them.

Seeing that these men are known as evil in their localities, and have already proclaimed their purpose, which is to uproot the fundamentals of our faith, and to take over all Jewish communities to aid them in their plan.

It is hardly credible that after the revelations of their arrogant hearts there should still be found right-minded men willing to ally themselves with them. It is greatly astonishing throughout the whole Jewish People that they should be given a place and a voice in public affairs, since it is known they are causing others to sin.

Let the people guard their souls lest they join them in the destruction of our religion and become an obstacle to the House of Israel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchik of Brisk said:

"If you intend to give a coin to the Jewish National Fund, give it to another idolatry, but not to the Zionists, since this idolatry is worse then any other."



Rabbi Avraham Yoshe Freund of Nasoder Rebbe
Rabbi Avraham Yoshe Freund of Nasoder Rebbe

Once before the Neila prayer on Yom Kippur Rabbi Avraham Yoshe Freund of Nasod said:

"It is not because they are Zionists that they are evildoers. It is because they are evildoers that they are Zionists."



Rabbi Shaul Brach
The following was written by the eminent late Rabbi Shaul Brach, one of the great anti-Zionist rabbis in Hungary before World War II, in the introduction to a religious text called Avos Al Banim. His words, just like the words of Rabbi Teitelbaum ring clearer than ever today.

"Since the dawn of the Zionist movement, suffering has not ceased to exist in the world. All the warnings of the Torah have been fulfilled in their details among our People all over the world. For a believer it is no surprise that the Zionists are the same as the heretics at the time of the Destruction of the Temple. Thus, divine judgment has been unleashed on the entire world.

It is, however, surprising how they can continue in their ways unless they have rejected the entire Torah and the Prophets, inasmuch as they support Zionism, they must surely hope they are successful. But the Torah states, "..lest the Land vomit you out because of how you defiled it."

It is amazing that the leaders of the Agudah movement want many Jews to live in the Holy Land. Don't they fear for the lives of their children given the fact that there is nowhere else on earth where there is so much heresy and sectarianism as in the Holy Land today?

As far as our brethren in America who support the Zionist heresy in the Holy Land are concerned, if they don't face up to the truth, in liberal AMERICA they will quickly feel the effects of the verse, "With anger poured out will I rule over you." May G-d have mercy.”


 

Mary P. (157)
Monday January 14, 2013, 11:59 am
Alexandra, here is a list of names of Rabbis opposing Zionism; plus the site for you to read more factual comments of each rabbi had to say about Zionism! Enjoy!!! :)

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbi_quotes/index.cfm


WORDS OF THE RABBIS
In support of our position we have gathered quotes from many respected Rabbis


Rabbis before World War I



■Maimonides
■Rabbi Yitzchok Aramah
■The Maharal of Prague
■Rabbi Avraham Galanti
■Rabbi Bechaye
■Rabbi Aryeh Leib Alter
■Rabbi Nachman

■Rabbi Yechezkel Halberstam
■Rabbi Tazdok Hakohen of Lublin
■Rabbi Yehoshua Leib Diskin
■Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch
■Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld
■Rabbi Yehoshea Dzikover


Rabbis before World War II



■Rabbi David Friedman of Karlin
■Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk
■Rabbi Yosef Rozen
■Rabbi Avraham Freund
■Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman
■Rabbi Chaim Soloveichik of Brisk

■Rabbi Chofetz Chaim
■Rabbi Sholem Schneersohn
■Rabbi Shaul Brach
■Rabbi Yissachar Dov Belze Rabbe
■Rabbi Chaim Oizer Grodzinski
■Rabbi Chaim Elazar Shapiro


Rabbis after World War II



■Satmar Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum
■Rabbi Yosef Tzvi Dushinsky
■Rabbi Yitzchock Zev Soloveitchik
■Rabbi Avraham Yeshayau Karelitz
■Rabbi Yitzchok Dov Koppelman
■Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl

■Rabbi Aharon Kotler
■Rabbi Mordechai Gifter
■Rabbi Elya Svei
■Rabbi Baruch Kaplan
■Rabbi Amram Blau
■Rabbi Avigdor Miller, zt'l
■Rabbi Yitchok Hutner Z"L


Joint Statements Issued by Rabbis in the USA, Canada and Europe Opposing Zionism
■Statement issued by 77 Respected Rabbis of the USA and Canada (Adobe PDF)
■Statement issued 30 September 1982 by 13 Respected Rabbis of Europe and Canada
■Statement issued 2 June 1920 by 12 grand Rabbis of Hungary opposing Zionism
■Statement issued December 14, 1925, Kaszica, Hungary


 

Just Carole (338)
Monday January 14, 2013, 12:29 pm

Thank you, dear Mary!

(Now, I'll wait for the excuse why even THIS overwhelming evidence is insufficient! ROFLMAO)

 

Alexander Werner (53)
Monday January 14, 2013, 12:33 pm
Ros, slavery is practices more in Arab countries, than in Israel or elsewhere.

Now, taking a JOKE from a satire web site and treating is as NEWS is a LIE. There is nothing Just or Wise in doing so, quite the opposite. Spreading hate won't help Arab nation, as it did not help it until now.



 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Monday January 14, 2013, 2:20 pm
Lee H...And those are just the ones that were recorded....how many more were done behind the scenes!?!?
 

Just Carole (338)
Monday January 14, 2013, 3:47 pm

Out of a plea to some kind of sense, I'll repeat this . . .

There is NOTHING in this article pertaining to Muslims!

WHY ARE ALL OF YOU (Pro-Zionists) ADDICTED TO ATTACKING THEM, EVEN WHEN THEIR BEHAVIOR IS NOT THE SUBJECT???

(Tunnel vision??? OCD???? Brainwashing??? Limited cognitive skills???)

This is a repeated psychological pattern when dealing with any subject concerning Zionist Israel.

On a pyschological level, I understand that demonstration of a pattern of behavior, with or without merit, indicates willing circumvention of individualistic reasoning, and promotes rote responses, and usually encourages likewise rendered as non-thinking members to adopt a "herd mentality," as a well-reasoned intellect would otherwise understand is nonsensical . . . but is, instead, comforting to the participants, because it indicates "acceptance."

Oh, my.

 

Just Carole (338)
Monday January 14, 2013, 4:11 pm

And, for those of you who cannot even understand the above missive, please don't waste my time by asking for clarification.

Having visited these threads before, and witnessing the same behavior on them, I don't need any more examples of people who present unsubstantiated "opinion" as absolute truth, while ignoring FACTS.

 

Just Carole (338)
Monday January 14, 2013, 4:18 pm

Back atcha, Stan:

"where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise."

(But I'm sorry you've given up on any degree of wisdom.)

 

Alexander Werner (53)
Monday January 14, 2013, 7:30 pm
Carol, let's not forget: you are trying to present a known and intended lie, a satire, as NEWS, as long, as this promotes something anti-Israel.

I hope you realize that spreading hate won't help the Arab nation to get out of misery where it placed itself.

 

Alexander Werner (53)
Monday January 14, 2013, 7:31 pm
Sorry, the name should read "Just Carole".
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Monday January 14, 2013, 7:44 pm
Mary, the site that you quote posted at lest some lies.

I don't know many rabbis, but I heard about rabbi Shneerson - and he was supportive on Israel and met with Israeli officials. Many rabbis did not like the nature of secular Zionism - as opposing to religious Zionism, but as of now, the Jewish religious mainstream supports Israel and all religious Jews support religious institutions in Israel.

To make an analogy, even some Arabs or Muslims will say that they don't care about Mecca, the vast majority of Muslims still does.
 

Ros G. (91)
Monday January 14, 2013, 10:06 pm
Bob A - our profiles state that we don't even live in the US. Satire or not "many a true word has been said in jest" Chuck Hagel stated "he will be working for America and not Israel" if he is appointed. So what's the problem with that. It was once "Reds under the Beds" now it's "Arab in our wardrobes" mentallity. If Israel needs Peace they need to do from within their own ranks - instead of assassinating PM's like Yitzhak Rabin -he and Arafft didn't want their grandchildren to take up arms against each other. Slavery in Arab countries - if you really care.
 

Stan B. (124)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 1:06 am
Just Carole. Don't you feel just a little bit hypocritical? Your post Jan 12; 10.38.

Definition of AD HOMINEM

1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect

2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

Mary P. Do you think anyone is going to take you seriously when your anti-Zionist list of rabbis contains names like Maimonides who lived in the 12th century?

It's like shooting fish in a barrel debating you people.
 

Stan B. (124)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 1:20 am
Alexandra. Posted by Ros G Jan14 at 3.00am

"Alexandra R take command from your Masters Bob and Stan I think they're telling you that you are way out of you're league. Rhetoric and diatribe can only go so far.... save it for the mindless. Green Stars to you both Bob A and Stan b. at least you had the guts to chastise her publicly."

Please ignore this crude attempt by Ros G to divide and rule. It shows the kind of depths these people will go to and how lacking they are in integrity.
I have nothing but the greatest respect for you and your opinions.
Ros G didn't send me a green star and wouldn't do so in a hundred years. The same applies to Bob A.
Nor would I ever send one to such a devious character like her.
 

Ros G. (91)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 2:48 am
Thanks Stan I'm glad you responded being a fellow "Aussie" I need your help. Most of my Care2 system is not working including "Green Stars" it's just getting worse - see my pleas on profile waiting for Care2 support to help - some might say that it's a "Blessing". I have no need to divide and rule/conquer. I already live in my own "Peace of Paradise" independant of the system. So why am I doing this - I have lived in Peace my entire life unlike my parents and many others throughout the world that have lived war-torn countries. You may ridicule this and say "I look through rose-coloured glasses but if it's possible for me I would like to think it's possible for most. I have nothing to gain - so I question your motivation.
I would still like Alexander's response to me losing family in the Holocaust and Yitzhak Rabin's assassination after all she does live in Israel and we don't.
PS Ask Bob A personally before you make such a statement.
 

Mary P. (157)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 6:55 am
Stan, "Mary P. Do you think anyone is going to take you seriously when your anti-Zionist list of rabbis contains names like Maimonides who lived in the 12th century?"

No problem!!

People of the world please GOOGLE: "True Torah Jews Against Zionism" and read what this century of True Torah Jews themselves have to say about the evil Zionists in the government of Israel! :) ; surely now these jews should be taken seriously!

Unless you have some other unbelievable excuse why the True Torah Jews too, should not be taken seriously nor believed!

Take care!

Have a great life!
 

Just Carole (338)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 7:22 am

Excellent response, Mary!

 

Mary P. (157)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 9:15 am
Thank You Just Carole. :) All Praise is due to GOD Almighty! ALLAHU AKBAR (GOD is Great)!
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 10:07 am
Tommy S.

You posted a verse of the Quran ( 9 : 5 ) . Although this is off topic yet I wonder why didn't you post 9:6 . Can you please post it ?
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 11:30 am
By Fred Kaplan, Slate Magazine
07 January 12

As a senator, Hagel once complained to a reporter that "the Jewish lobby” intimidates many lawmakers on Capitol Hill. And he once intoned that he was a senator from Nebraska, not a senator from Israel. These may have been impolitic remarks, but they weren't false - either in strict substance or in spirit.

No one could deny that AIPAC has an overpowering influence on many lawmakers. Hagel's sin, in the eyes of some, was to call it the "Jewish lobby” instead of the "Israel lobby.” If this is a sin, AIPAC and its allies have brought it on themselves. For decades, they have thundered that criticism of Israel is thinly disguised anti-Semitism. Yet they cry "anti-Semitism” again when someone inverts the equation (which is what the phrase in question amounts to: If anti-Israel equals anti-Jewish, then pro-Israel equals pro-Jewish). As for saying that he's a senator from Nebraska, not Israel: Had he or any other senator said this about any other country ("I'm not a senator from France … England … Canada” or wherever), no one would have batted an eye. To accuse him of anti-Semitism on these grounds is to reveal a staggeringly deep paranoia - or a sensitivity far too acute to be allowed any role in American politics.

An open letter from nine former U.S. ambassadors, five of them ex-ambassadors to Israel, strongly endorses Hagel for secretary of defense and rejects as ludicrous the charge that he's anti-Semitic (as does the columnist Jeffrey Goldberg, who's perceptive on such matters). Again, the complaints about Hagel are proxy-complaints about Obama, who is denounced by these critics as soft on Israel, even though the recently retired Israeli defense minister said that Obama has done more for Israeli security than any U.S. president in recent memory.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/15439-the-real-reason-republicans-hate-hagel-
 

Cousin It Addams (8)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 12:14 pm
the issue here is abdessalem supposedly has no idea of the literary genre "satire" and even though i've seen him and his pals criticize sources as "hate sites" and thus not valid as sources (true that a "hate site" is not valid, but the hypocrisy here is just astounding. and some of us have a very broad definition of hate site, such as "anything, however factual, that makes mohammedanist ideology sound less than fabulous in any way") then he puts up an article from a HUMOR site? with articles about a beaver?????? i mean, come on. a beaver!!! and half the time mary p calls sources a "hate site" and it turns out it's a koran quote being used. quelle suprise!

and mary, allahu snackbar to you too. i'm sure your imaginary friend is just great. not big on women's rights though, is he? or the prophet (pig-lard be upon him) either, who said in the koran that women are like "domestic animals".
all your lovey-dovey-kumbaya talk is not fooling me. tell me, do you (and abdessalam, you can answer this too) believe, as the koran says, and the prophet (pig-lard be upon him) taught, yes actually said it IN THE KORAN that gays should be executed? or not. and if you say NOT then are you saying that something in the koran is wrong? (oooooooh, cause i thought it was perfect!) or are you just an apostate (in which case the koran says you should be killed too) because the koran definitely says it but you either don't believe it or else don't agree with it.

i am looking for a statement, not evasion. something like "no cousin it, of course i do not agree with the koran that gays should be executed" or "yes cousin it, if the koran says it so do i, so kill the gays". you mohammedans are masters at conflation and prevarication. i'm asking for an unambiguous statement of your belief on this ONE issue. doubt you're honest ernough to answer, but i tried.
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 12:40 pm
An other Husbara graduate.
What did the Torah says about gays ?
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 12:56 pm
The traditional viewpoint is that the Torah mentions homosexuality twice in the book of Leviticus (JPS):

וְאֶת-זָכָר—לֹא תִשְׁכַּב, מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה: תּוֹעֵבָה, הִוא.

Lev.18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination."
וְאִישׁ, אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁכַּב אֶת-זָכָר מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה—תּוֹעֵבָה עָשׂוּ, שְׁנֵיהֶם; מוֹת יוּמָתוּ, דְּמֵיהֶם בָּם.

Lev.20:13 "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
 

Ros G. (91)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 2:05 pm
Well Boys there you have it the Bible, Koran & Torah all say you are evil sinners that will bring about world destruction if you aren't put to death.
Me personally I think you're wonderful but then I don't have any religion -stoning for me I guess.
 

Just Carole (338)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 4:30 pm

I agree, Ros.

"Let's go get stoned."

LOL!

 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Tuesday January 15, 2013, 8:17 pm
Abdessalam ..I may agree with this BUT...

Lev.20:13 "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

WHEN..it comes to the murders.... pedophilia...abuse of women and children..the lies..the hatred and much more that I see coming from the Muslims throughout the world there is no comparrison! And if you say not all Muslims are like this then WHERE are their VOICES condemning those ruthless aborigines that are doing this insane barbarism!?!? It's either...OR...so what is it....either they are condemned and ridiculed by the "good" Muslims or they are not.. and if they are not... then IMO they are agreeing with what is going on in the rest of the extremist Muslim world!! We never won any wars by sitting back and letting the enemy take over........WE FOUGHT THEM!!! NO GUTS NO GLORY!!
 

Ge M. (218)
Wednesday January 16, 2013, 2:19 am
Interesting how Carole will reply to other people who are off topic. It is only Muslim abuses that she doesn't object to, like Abdesalam, not even capable of condemning the appalling atricities in any Muslim country, neither does Mary P.

Having said that, perhaps we should look at what is happening in the Muslim world, oh, but I put up articles and you prefer to sit here Israel bashing instead of condemning the Muslim abuses. The UN decided that it was not appropriate for countries to complain about the way that they were behaving and that every government should not be criticised. Having done that there were 22 sanctions against Israel for existing.

As for peace in Israel, from the Hamas charter

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

Article Three:
The basic structure of the Islamic Resistance Movement consists of Moslems who have given their allegiance to Allah whom they truly worship, - "I have created the jinn and humans only for the purpose of worshipping" - who know their duty towards themselves, their families and country. In all that, they fear Allah and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors, so that they would rid the land and the people of their uncleanliness, vileness and evils.

Article Six:
The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned. In the absence of Islam, strife will be rife, oppression spreads, evil prevails and schisms and wars will break out.

Article Seven:
As a result of the fact that those Moslems who adhere to the ways of the Islamic Resistance Movement spread all over the world, rally support for it and its stands, strive towards enhancing its struggle, the Movement is a universal one. It is well-equipped for that because of the clarity of its ideology, the nobility of its aim and the loftiness of its objectives.

On this basis, the Movement should be viewed and evaluated, and its role be recognised. He who denies its right, evades supporting it and turns a blind eye to facts, whether intentionally or unintentionally, would awaken to see that events have overtaken him and with no logic to justify his attitude. One should certainly learn from past examples.

The injustice of next-of-kin is harder to bear than the smite of the Indian sword.

"We have also sent down unto thee the book of the Koran with truth, confirming that scripture which was revealed before it; and preserving the same safe from corruption. Judge therefore between them according to that which Allah hath revealed; and follow not their desires, by swerving from the truth which hath come unto thee. Unto every of you have we given a law, and an open path; and if Allah had pleased, he had surely made you one people; but he hath thought it fit to give you different laws, that he might try you in that which he hath given you respectively. Therefore strive to excel each other in good works; unto Allah shall ye all return, and then will he declare unto you that concerning which ye have disagreed." (The Table, verse 48).
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.

Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

There are many more but this should be an indication that there will never be peace in Israel as long as people like Carole, Mary P & Abdesalam exist to support these abuses.

And for those of you who do not know the international law about Israel, Israel is currently the land agreed by the League of Nations and the United Nations ie the Palestinian Mandate. After Israel came into existence, surrounding Muslim countries attacked it (you know, the religion of love & peace) and illegally occupied land. This is forbidden by international law. Egypt occupied Gaza and TransJordan occupied Sumaria & Judea now known as the West Bank. But, as we all know, Muslims only believe in international law when it could be on their side. In other words, Muslims can break international law but no-one else can. We see it at this moment in Mali. Silence from anti-Semites, it is OK for Muslims to abuse non-Muslims as Mohammed said so!

Now we have Hamas abusing the Palestinians and breaking international law and no-one says anything other than it is Israel's fault. In a way I suppose it is. In an effort to work for peace, Israel allowed the Palestinians control over part of Israel, Gaza. Now it is a place for the terrorists to terrorise their own people and break international law as well as a base to shell Israel on a daily basis. Interesting how Carole, Mary P, Abdesalam have been so silent on such issues whilst using rabbis as an excuse to launch more anti-Semtic attacks. The bit that they miss out on is that rabbis are not leaders, they are just individuals with a prefix that means teacher. My opinions are as valid as theirs. I would also add that Mary P has no idea what it is she has copied and pasted as she has no understanding of how Judaism works but it is easy to see how Islam works. In fact, there are many pro zionist rabbis too.




 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Wednesday January 16, 2013, 7:14 am
Ros G.

"Me personally I think you're wonderful but then I don't have any religion -stoning for me I guess."
No Ros . Here are six verses implicitly teach us to practice tolerance even with Atheists, and tell us to treat non-Muslims with respect but yet disapproval..'
" IN THE NAME OF GOD , THE MERCY- GIVING , THE MERCIFUL
* SAY 'O DISBELIEVERS
I DO NOT WORSHIP WHAT YOU WORSHIP
NOR ARE YOU WORSHIPING WHAT I DO
I WILL NOT WORSHIP WHAT YOU HAVE WORSHIPED
NEITHER WILL YOU WORSHIP WHAT I WORSHIP
YOU HAVE YOUR RELIGION
AND I HAVE MY RELIGION
------------------------------------

“Say Truth is from your Lord; let him who will believe, and let him who will disbelieve “(Alkahf: 29)

“If it had been thy Lord’s will, They would all have believed, All who are on earth. Wilt thou then compel mankind against their will to believe!
“(Yuns (Jonah): 99)




 

bob m. (32)
Wednesday January 16, 2013, 8:02 am


Jesus ..The Son is Lord Abd...all your maneuverings, obfuscations , lies, machinations , denials and squirmings cannot erase the Blood of calvary.....Shed for you.....simple as that .. recieve the Gift and Know you are redeamed , saved , ... Covered.. so that when you stand before God your shame will be covered ,forgiven....Will you refuse Him .. refuse such Great Love?
He will keep knocking ..will you let Him in?
 

Mary P. (157)
Wednesday January 16, 2013, 8:38 am
Gillian, "perhaps we should look at what is happening in the Muslim world, oh, but I put up articles"

Poor Gillian!!! Imagine making a 'list' of the sins of every MUSLIM individual!! Please do the world more favors and also
make a list of the sins of EVERY Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Atheist individuals, especially those that are filling all the Prisons throughout the world?? Better still why don't you also make your informative list of NAMES of the millions of muslim men, women and children murdered in
the unpatriotic wars( Greed, Theft-Land and Oil, Power) of America and Israel in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palestine, Libya etc ( don't forget to list the names of innocent victims (babies) of the drone attacks too!!)

That should keep you busy! Balance the scales and find the real State Terrorists ( America and Israel) terrorising entire Countries and murdering its innocent people in cold blood, while the whole world watches in silence!! What a un-barbaric civilization? NOT!!!


 

Mary P. (157)
Wednesday January 16, 2013, 8:51 am
cousin it, it seems like you THINK you know more about our religion than we muslims do! Unfortunately your ignorance about islam precedes you! Personally i dont think you deserve any answers because of your vulgarity and disrespect of the beliefs of others! The best way to deal with fools is to ignore them!!
 

Ros G. (91)
Wednesday January 16, 2013, 2:45 pm
Thank you, Abdessalam but I am not an atheist either - I just don't need a Religion and I pray often.

"If the only prayer you ever said in
your whole entire life
Was "thank you"
that would suffice"

GK Chesterman
 

Abdessalam Diab (154)
Thursday January 17, 2013, 3:27 am
Is AIPAC Waging A Shadow War On Hagel?



“A lobby is like a night flower: It thrives in the dark and dies in the light.” – former AIPAC foreign policy director Steve Rosen

“AIPAC does not take positions on presidential nominations,” insisted AIPAC spokesman Marshall Wittman.

But a closer investigation of the campaign against Hagel indicates that AIPAC -- and by extension, the Israeli government -- may be outsourcing the attacks to its longtime former spokesman, the notoriously combative pro-Israel operative Josh Block. Through Block, who was until very recently quoted by reporters as a “former AIPAC spokesman,” AIPAC has apparently been able to assail one of President Barack Obama’s key nominees without risking the political fallout that such a gambit might invite.

“Because Josh Block does not work for AIPAC anymore, he can say whatever he wants,” MJ Rosenberg, a former editor of AIPAC's weekly newsletter and ex-congressional aide who is now one of the Israel lobby’s premier critics, told me. “And he does: when AIPAC wants a message sent, it tells journalists, ‘We have no comment but you can call Josh Block.’ And Block, who is in constant contact with AIPAC, gives the line but AIPAC has deniability – they can just say, he doesn’t work for us.”
................................................................................................

Block may have made himself a liability to The Israel Project, but as long as he is employed there, Rosenberg believes he provides AIPAC with a key asset. “The whole anti-Hagel effort is coordinated by AIPAC,” claimed Rosenberg. “If it didn't want Hagel to be smeared as anti-Israel, he wouldn’t have been. So he is being smeared nonstop and if the effort fails [AIPAC] can say, ‘It wasn't us. We are neutral. These attacks came independently.’ “That’s why they use cutouts,” he added. “I know because I used to be one of them.”



Please read the story at;

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33615.htm
 
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