Friday December 11, 2009, 12:23 pm
...PLEASE EXCUSE THE MISSPELLINGS....IT'S BEEN AWHILE SINCE I RAN A STORY...AND THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST.

Friday December 11, 2009, 12:32 pm
NOTED, THANKS RIVER

Friday December 11, 2009, 12:40 pm
Some people are sorry losers. Anything to get the right wing back into their bullying control of the whole world!

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:07 pm
Pathetic.

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:21 pm
Yikes ~ I better find my birth certificate ~ In case I have to prove I'm here typing now.

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:25 pm
Surely this would have been thoroughly checked before a candidate could run for president.

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:40 pm
OMG!!!

Thanks so much for this news!!! Actually Alice the fact that you commented, betted look up my birth certificate make me just laugh out loud and actually scared my little rescue!!!

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:44 pm
River dear...

Went to the article went back and forth after I was laughing so hard at some comments and was thinking what is wrong with this picture...this really needs to get out there!!!!

Goodness if I didn't have my birth certificate and went into Mexico even though I am blonde they would put me in jail...just the nature of the beast...the fact that we have a President that can't prove some birth is confusing...

Know I am going to get killed again for jumping into politics, but what supers news...and thanks River for posting...

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:49 pm
Signed by Dr Kervorkian, huh?

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:49 pm
It is written in the books of Daniel and Revelation what is going to happen but many refuse to believe and that will be their loss FOR ETERNITY. Laugh and doubt if you may, but you ain't seen nothing yet.

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:52 pm
Echo...sadly this is so serious to me, but I am laughing so hard at your comment!!!!

Good ONE!!!!

Friday December 11, 2009, 1:54 pm
I cannot believe at this juncture that our President has not produced a legitimate birth record. I have heard rumblings about this for some time. I do know that when we even cross a border you must have a birth certificate. It would seem that President Obama would produce a birth record and put all this to rest. It seems that even if there is none someone in the Alphabet soup in Washington could come up with one, they do it for people they send all over the world with false ID's. I do admit I am curious.

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:14 pm
Someone is going to keep digging until they strike absolute truth regarding this issue, and no more of the shell-game deceptions that politicians just love to play!

But since this could mean a conspiracy to commit Constitutional fraud, then it becomes a serious matter and quest for American justice under the law!

Thank You River & Very Much Noted --- Please keep us informed 'when' you locate more updates!!!

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:15 pm
noted

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:28 pm
Thanks River.....read about this sort of thing before he took office....

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:32 pm
Soros put him in office and he will keep him there ... We the people will never really know the real truth .....

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:36 pm
Lol, People should brush up around their own doorsteps,before judging others!

Thank you, River.

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:49 pm
okay - Obama won the election so deal with it and grow up.

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:50 pm
I have no interest in where he was born but if I were an American I would be really angry at someone acting so arrogant he thinks he is above everyone. I only know of one person who has that kind of power over me and that's my wife!

He does not release it because in not doing so he is keeping the right (or is it left?) divided! Instead of coming to terms with the fact that a question has been asked and not answered to the satisfaction of a great number of American people you could be called a loon or a racist just for asking!

I like our laws better - you only have to be Canadian to be our Prime Minister --- then again maybe your founding fathers had an good idea when the likes of Arnie show up and run one of your states into the ground!

Hiya Matt! Great to 'see' another Canuck here! We have an election coming and our most esteemed Liberal leader worked for the Clinton administration. We could well have this kind of madness coming to a theater near us soon if we cannot get a majority government elected .... Hope to see you around!

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:52 pm
Thanks Northern -- tried yet again to send you a star...

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:55 pm
Northern, I think he doesn't produce it just so those who question him look like fools. I want to know for sure.

Friday December 11, 2009, 2:59 pm
Great post. Noted with thanks River.

Friday December 11, 2009, 3:00 pm
As my brother used to say ~ " Where is Dr Kervorkian when you need him? " lololol

Friday December 11, 2009, 3:02 pm
Now I know the answer ~ In Kenya !

Friday December 11, 2009, 3:02 pm
Reading this article makes me grateful Obama got elected, despite his duplicity.

Back and forth, back and forth...

Friday December 11, 2009, 3:14 pm
Thank you! We all need to produce our birth certificate, to work, drive and travel. Obama is not above the law. Obama is spending millions upon millions of dollars to keep his BC in the dark. What is he hiding?

Friday December 11, 2009, 3:14 pm
... and as a public servant Ne you have every right to ask that question of him and he should be obligated to answer it! I am hopeful that his arrogance will be his downfall ....

Friday December 11, 2009, 3:21 pm
I still feel, if anyone on the Republican party could of determined him to not be a valid candidate they would of. Don't you think if Hilary Clinton and former President Bill Clinton could of proved so they would of as well. They were both biting at the bit to have her be President....first woman AND wife of a former President. They have many connections I'm sure if it could be validated it would of been to eliminate him out of the race.

Friday December 11, 2009, 3:25 pm
Actually it was the Clinton campaign that first raised this question and when it became apparent Hillary would lose they tried to hush it up. But some Americans were paying attention to the questions that were being asked about Obama and not answered and by the time they tried to hush it up - it was too late.

Friday December 11, 2009, 3:30 pm
Wow, the Repubs lied about going to get Bin Laden, lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, lied about Saddam working with Bin Laden, lied about Saddam having nuclear weapons and threatened us with a made-up mushroom cloud, lied about torturing people, and lied about all sorts of other things and people are still willing to believe them.
WOW, PT Barnum was right.

There's no doubt about that certificate, and no issues with President Obama's birth records in the state records, and in the two major Honolulu newspapers all those years ago. Lying about it or denying it doesn't change anything about President Obama, but it does destroy the credibility of the deniers and liars. His birth certificate has been authenticated and verified and is available to anyone who cares to look it up (anyone who can read, that is). The Republican Governor in charge of Hawaii has stood behind the state's certificate and its authenticity.
Go to http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg and for more at
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

All the frivolous law suits brought about this completely settled matter have been dismissed (mostly with big belly laughs) and I had thought this absurd silliness had died out of it's own inanity. Bummer that people are being misdirected by the war profiteers who are bent on keeping our money flowing into their pockets, and by the climate deniers who want to continue to pollute freely like they did when Bushy was president, and by the investment bankers and the health insurance cartel who are still all getting rich while some people focus on a fully-authenticated birth certificate. Sigh.

Those who claim to read President Obama's mind and know his motivations (now THAT is arrogance) or are just making up reasons why he won't release it are just missing one major fact or being dishonest about it - he has released it. It's available on the internet. I just went and looked again and it is still available on the internet for EVERYONE TO SEE.

By the way, McCain is the one who wasn't born in the United States. Sheesh.

Friday December 11, 2009, 4:05 pm
Noted , thanks .

Friday December 11, 2009, 4:33 pm
Well i also cant believe Pres Obama got elected and has been in office almost a yr now and they have not come up with proof to show he is not ligimate. it is amazing the things poeple will say and do to get attention and to try to discredit a president.

i dont care where he was born, he is our president now. i care more about whether he does the things he promised when campaigning to become our president. if poeple worried less about his birth certificate and more about what he is doing, they would a lot better off.

Friday December 11, 2009, 5:48 pm
joke Im am glad so many of you belive Palin and how honest do think she is This is garbage Please i ask yoiu never to send me garbage again President Obama is a USA citizen

Friday December 11, 2009, 5:50 pm
Or you can take me off your friends list or maybe I will take you off my.

Friday December 11, 2009, 6:13 pm
great post river noted thanks

Friday December 11, 2009, 6:41 pm
Great post River! And so well put Matt! Obama's policies are so Socialistic and very UNAMERICAN! He's just digging America deeper and deeper into Socialism. Will America's new name be ChinAmerica because we're so much in debt or KenyAmerica after this Socialistic President?

Friday December 11, 2009, 6:42 pm
There is absolutely no way I could note a story like this! I am in complete agreement with Mamabear Claw. Sarah Palin is a joke and now this? She has tried to debunk Al Gore for global warming. What next? As someone who worked for President Obama, I can assure you he was indeed born in Hawaii. His mother was an American born in Kansas City! Also as far as Sarah Palin in concerned, anyone who would listen to her about anything is very seriously disturbed. I don't want this kind of crap coming to me either.

Friday December 11, 2009, 6:59 pm
River thanks for the info.

Obama has gotten away with the biggest scam yet. What he is doing to our economy and our own pocket books will make Bernie Madoff looks like two bit con.

Hilliary made a deal with the devil and that would be Soros.

He has played Americans for a sucker. How awful that these power hungry elistist have such contempt for the citizens that elected them.

Friday December 11, 2009, 7:03 pm
LOL!
Ribbon copy???? LOL. You people are so funny. You want the ORIGINAL ribbon copy of from the typewriter that was used to type his birth certificate in 1961?

Why haven't ANY of you realized that the ribbon would have been changed AT LEAST 48 times since the typewriter was made, if not more. LOL You think a ribbon from the year of his birth still exists? LOL
That is just too funny.

How on Earth has Obama been able to get a drivers license, win various local and state elections, and even gotten a passport without a CERTIFIED COPY of his birth certificate?

Answer...Not possible.

As JennyLynn pointed out, you can see proof at: http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg

But, of course, no matter what is produced as proof, you guys will never believe it. I bet that if he had someone forge a certificate stating he was born in Kenya, you'd fight with everything you have to prove it's legitimate.

Why are you guys to against Obama? Don't you know ANYTHING about how our country works? Obama doesn't sign any bills unless congress presents them to him. What are you afraid of? He could be a Communist and he STILL couldn't change how this country works.

Stop being so paranoid and try helping to HEAL this country. You guys are just too funny.

Friday December 11, 2009, 7:51 pm
About the original news site for this thread -

http://www.pr-inside.com/sarah-palin-joins-andy-martin-in-r1617233.htm

And

http://www.pr-inside.com/impressum.htm

And the disclaimer at the bottom of the news page...
Disclaimer: If you have any questions regarding information in these press releases please contact the company added in the press release. Please do not contact pr-inside. We will not be able to assist you. PR-inside disclaims contents contained in this release.

Friday December 11, 2009, 8:09 pm
I don't think this is an issue, but it does raise one. On the Friday night after the election, Charlie Rose had Tom Brokaw on and they were chatting about the new President as I was driving home. One said to the other, we have just elected a President we know very little about. The other said, what do you mean? And the first said, what is his favorite movie or book? We know what he wrote in his books, The Audacity of Hope and Dreams of my Father, but we don't know the things he didn't write. And they agreed that it was interesting that nobody in the media had bothered to dig for basic "get to know you" kind of stuff. His story was so compelling and his rise to power so quick, that he dazzled millions including most reporters.

They took what they were given, reported it, and moved on. That has never happened. That is not a reflection on President Obama. The issue is the mass media's treatment of his candidacy. Supporters or opponents, either should be concerned when a free and public media intentionally chooses to report but not investigate. Like I said at the beginning, it isn't that they would have found anything, it is that they didn't look. That is why people can still raise this stuff. Normally it gets vetted during the campaign.

Friday December 11, 2009, 8:39 pm
Standing ovation to you Paul! I always enjoy your common sense and clear thinking on things. The old saying about 'what you don't know won't hurt you' does not appear to have much truth in it. Way too much debt and they have increased the allowable load on America again. How much more can your country bear financially? If you have to default on the loans does this mean China gets to repo the White House and all the gas guzzling, air polluting limos that go with it? What exactly do they have as collateral against all the money you owe them? Does anyone know?

Friday December 11, 2009, 9:42 pm
Noted and thanks for the chuckle River!

Friday December 11, 2009, 10:03 pm
Thannnxxxx Sweetie... Sherbet they have dug again and have struck gold.. I wonder how many are going to join the gold rush.... and dig for their birth certificates... perhaps they have a right to the presidential throne...

Friday December 11, 2009, 10:36 pm
Such ignorance and bigotry in this thread.

Friday December 11, 2009, 10:40 pm
wait a minute..., the Republicans did NOT want Hillary to win the Democratic Ticket, and they aren't as stupid as many think. Remember, how QUIET they were???? There has been some freaky agenda in play, but I am not so sure President Obama was truly aware of the "internal game," that was launched. Hillary didn't even fight for Michigan's dictorial actions of telling us "whom" our vote would represent. She sure fell in line with the party.

I was born in Hawaii, in 1961, and I know what a BIRTH CERTIFICATE looks like from this state, during that year. It isn't like the one posted on the websites. Many Americans tried to speak out about this "legality," but we were attacked and ignored.....
It is so easy to resolve this issue, but millions have been spent to avoid providing the real deal. It doesn't make any sense. I am getting this sick feeling, that our President "might" have been set-up for a future "problem."

However, in my humble opinion, it is TOO LATE. He is our President, and the people are separating more on the vast issues we face as a nation. I mean then what? McCain or Biden becomes our President?? please...no.

Friday December 11, 2009, 11:10 pm
* Related Care2 Article : > > > >

President Barack Obama; Why Conceal? --- Why Not Reveal? - Care2

Friday December 11, 2009, 11:20 pm
Is there a full moon tonight ?..revelations and conspiracy madness abounds.

Friday December 11, 2009, 11:21 pm
Why not Biden? He is hilarious! Besides, if its true Pelosi will go to jail with Obama because it was her job to certify his eligibility. Now there's a thought! Wonder who would get to be VP????

Friday December 11, 2009, 11:25 pm
The madness began when a desperate American public elected a man with 'NO' documented past to be viewed by his populace!!!

Period!

Friday December 11, 2009, 11:37 pm
Obama is killing his own presidency by replying to his population with an eerie vacuum!

So don't blame us . . .

Sarah Palin; SAVE YOUR MONEY!!!

*(Note: This is not an endorsement).

Friday December 11, 2009, 11:52 pm
One of the things mentioned early on in the campaign was that Obama doesn't even have a closet for skeletons to be found in. But that doesn't mean nobody LOOKED for one.

Think about it, as soon as Clinton got into office, the law suits began. The republicans did EVERYTHING they could think of to disrupt Clinton's ability to focus on running the country.

Obama was an even more controversial candidate, partially for his color, and partially for is lack of experience. I have no doubt that the opposition looked for ANYTHING to trip him up. That's why the author and supporters of this thread are looking at ridiculous non-issues. There is nothing else for them to hang their hopes on.

I did some research on the official Whitehouse website and found a list of 176 presidiential actions that I'm sure the supporters of this thread will simply LOVE to hate, if you guys are even brave enough to look at it.

The website is www.whitehouse.gov

When you get to the website, click on "FEATURED LEGISLATION." On the left of the page is a list of presidential actions. Every title listed is a link to its' description.

So, I challenge everyone who is anti-Obama to look at the list and tell us which presidential actions you oppose, and why. I challenge each one of you to come up with enough of the 176 actions to justify your anti-Obama stance.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 2:44 am
Deanna Z, it may surprise you that I look at www.whitehouse.gov almost every day and have for years. It would take too long to go through the actions that he has on his website, and I'm not opposed to every single one, although it would not be accurate to say I support any of them either. If you post something as a news story from whitehouse.gov, pick something on it and let me know, and I'll happily oblige.

As to this thread, I don't think it's the venue for an analysis of the Obama agenda. I don't buy the conspiracies, which actually applies to lots of things. But, I think at the least, a nice guy with a gift for speaking put himself in the right place and through talent and luck moved swiftly all the way to the Presidency. I don't think he was ready to get there, and how it goes is a little worrisome. He's an awfully nice guy, that made some extremely poor choices after arriving in Washington.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 2:50 am
Interesting, What's to come next. Thanks River.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 3:56 am
I was born and raised in Hawai'i, additionally I am also native Hawai'ian. For those birthers out there who want to validate Obama's Hawai'ian birth, just mozy down to the State of Hawai'i Department of Health in Honolulu on the island of O'ahu and pay a fee of $27.00 to authenticate his birth. The clerk will show you a book that records all births in the State, somewhat like a ledger. It will give his name, date of his birth, his parents and the location of his birth, (hospital, island, city). You can also go over to the Advertiser and the Star Bulletin offices to get original copies on the day Obama was born, 4 August 1961. He will be listed under live births in these two oldest and reputable daily newspapers. Oh yeah, you can also read his book, "Dreams of my Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance" which was written when he graduated from Harvard Law School. He was the first black president of the Harvard Law Review which gave him his first moment of national fame, a powerful intellectual credential and a sweet book deal.

His parents met in Hawai'i while they were students at the University of Hawai'i at Manoa and married on
2 February 1961 in Maui, Hawai'i. They did not move to Kenya, in fact his father moved away from his family in Hawai'i after receiving his undergraduate degree from UH Manoa in June 1962 to pursue his graduate studies in economics at Harvard. He abandoned his wife and one year old Obama because his graduate academic scholarship could not support a family of three. She filed for divorce in Honolulu which was granted in January 1964, this was listed in the two newspapers under Vital statistics: Divorces. Obama saw his father only once in his life at age 10, hence the title of his first book. Incidentally, most people do not know that Obama's father was a polygamous and atheist. He was married to a woman in Kenya who he abandoned when she was pregnant and a young son when he was awarded an academic scholarship to study at the East-West Center at UH Manoa.

I received an autographed book from my brother, Kaleiwahea whose close friend and local historian in Hawai'i compiled a photo journal of Obama's life in Hawai'i starting from infancy. Obama graduated from the most prestigious prep school in Hawai'i: Punahoe. Only smart kids go to this school whose parents could afford the hefty fees, my Mom and her sisters went to this private school. Obama was born and raised in Hawai'i, you birthers can go to Punahoe School in Honolulu to validate Obama's birth certificate because Punahoe would have the document on file. You can also interview the nurses and doctors who helped in his delivery at Kapi'olani Children's Hospital in Honolulu if you don't believe he is Hawai'ian.

Most all the residents in Hawai'i are very proud of Obama and his family, because he was born and raised in Hawai'i. Most of the information I've provided has been researched by Hawai'ian newscasters and newspaper reporters. Births, marriages and divorces (as well as deaths) are public record by newspaper vital statistics and through the Department of Health in Honolulu, Hawai'i. This is fact and no fiction!!!

STUPIDITY IS SCARY...I WILL NEVER NOTE AN ARTICLE THAT PROMOTES CANCEROUS PROPAGANDA!!!

Saturday December 12, 2009, 7:24 am
* News Update:

* See article comment-line on following link for further details : > > > >

Dr. Robert P. Watson, PhD, Views "Obama Euphoria Ends" Public Debate - "President Barack Obama; Why Conceal? -- Why Not Reveal?" - Care2 C2NN


Signature: THE FIFTH KNIGHT'S NEWS

Saturday December 12, 2009, 8:31 am
Wow,more crap that I won't read, sorry River, but no thanks. i don't appreciate people who cannot see what is right in front of them. How blind are you all?

Saturday December 12, 2009, 9:38 am
this is stupid; if the state of hawaii says they have the birth cirtificate, and sent all pertinent information, then what's the fuss about. having the actual certificate in hand is meaningless.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 9:53 am
i doubt he will be impeached

Saturday December 12, 2009, 10:44 am
TO DIANE.........IF YOU HOLD A PRESTIGE OFFICE....A "FIGURE HEAD" TO THE UNITED STATES...THAN YES, PROVE YOUR WORTH AND GET YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD WE WANT ANOTHER COUNTRY'S CITIZENSHIP TO HOLD THIS OFFICE...AND FOR THE REST OF YOU WHO SHOW APATHY TO FINDING THE TRUTH OR WHO DOUBT THIS RESEARCH....THAN YOU ARE FOUND NOT UNKNOWABLE AND CARELESS. SO I WOULD SAY TO YOU, WHY DID YOU EVEN BOTHER READING THIS ARTICLE. IT IS MADE CLEAR AND BY YOUR OWN WORDS, OF YOUR SIGHT IN THIS WORLD AND THE NEW WORLD THAT WILL BE COMING.

BY PREVIOUS ARTICLES, AND PEOPLE MORE POLITICAL TO ME, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG HERE....LOOK THIS PRESIDENT EVEN GETS A NOBLE PEACE PRIZE AWARD FOR ESCALATING WARS AND THE ONLY SUMMIT HE HOLDS ANY ACCOLADES IN, IS HIS BEER SUMMIT.

IGNORANCE AND "ROSE COLORED GLASSES" HOLDS NO MERIT FOR FIGHTING FOR WHAT IS RIGHT AND JUST.

YOU CAN FURTHER YOUR EDUCATION WITH SIR ROBERT'S ARTICLES...YOU CAN'T CLAIM INTELLIGENCE UNTIL YOU HAVE STUDIED.

I AM A BIOLOGIST AND HAVE CHOSEN MY WARS IN CANADA AND TAIJI, JAPAN. IT PLEASES ME TO SEE WE STILL HAVE PEOPLE IN THIS WEB, THAT DO THEIR STUDIES AND QUESTION EVERYTHING.

THOSE WITH APATHY, YOU HAVE ALREADY GIVEN UP YOUR FREEDOMS AND YOUR MIND.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 10:48 am
I'm sorry but I can't note this story. I feel like I have wandered into the Twilight Zone. Wait, there's a sign post up ahead...

Saturday December 12, 2009, 10:48 am
GILLIAN...AS SOON AS OBAMA TOOK THE WHITE HOUSE, NOT ONLY DID HE PERMANENTLY SEAL HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE, BUT ALSO HIS COLLEGE RECORDS. THIS IS FACT. AND IT IS PEOPLE EMPOWERED WITH LAW DEGREES THAT IS SEEKING TO CONTINUE THIS IN COURTS OF LAW.

SIR ROBERT I AM INSPIRED BY YOUR HARD WORKS, YOUR CONTINUED COURSE, EVEN AGAINST IN THE EYES OF IGNORANCE AND APATHY.................SHINE ON!

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:02 am
I read this story because I am interested in other views and NOT apathetic. However, I'm with Kristi K......

(There seem to many "facts", I have no doubt that the REAL facts will come out soon)

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:07 am
(that should have been; there seem to BE many "facts")

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:23 am
JULIE...HOW CAN YOU BUILD ANY, MUCH LESS A STRONG FOUNDATION ON LIES. AND AS NORTHERN PUTS...AND IS SSOOOOOO OBVIOUS, BOTH OF THE OBAMAS ARE PRETENTIOUS AND ARROGANT, AND BELIEVE THEMSELVES TO BE ABOVE THE LAW.

HE HAS DONE AFICAN AMERICANS A "TRUE" INJUSTICE, IN THAT THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER ONE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN. AND OBAMA'S CHANCES OF GETTING ANOTHER TERM, DETONATED.....HILLARY NEVER LOOKED SO GOOD.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:25 am
I can't believe how stupid people can be, and to be mis-lead by others, who most likely get their "news" from Fox Views or some of the other right wing publicantions. River, just spend the money and get a copy of the birth certificate like anyone else can...and see for yourself. They are public records that have been checked nd re-checked. By the way, for all those who believe this crap, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale at a great price. Cash only.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:27 am
BRENDAN....IN 911, WHERE THE TWIN TOWERS WHERE DESTROYED....WE DEALT WITH IT.........WE DIDN'T LIE DOWN.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:30 am
NICK............GO TO EBAY, THEY HAVE OBAMA "LOOK-ALIKE" CERTIFICATES YOU CAN BUY.......JUST NOT THE REAL ONE.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:37 am
ELLE.....PALIN, (who you know I detest for her atrocities against the wolves), IS JUST RUNNING WITH THE REINS HERE. THE REAL POWER IS IN THE LAW, WITH LAWYERS AND LEGAL ANALYSTS.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:41 am
DEANNA.......HIS OWN GRANDMOTHER HAS STATED HE WAS BORN IN KENYA. AND APPARENTLY THIS HAS BEEN AUTHENTICATED.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:47 am
"Most all the residents in Hawai'i are very proud of Obama..."

I respectfully agree to DISAGREE with this statement, as many residents are split on their opinions. However, the "government" of Hawaii does embrace the limelight of it. Also, if it was so easy to get a copy of his birth certificate, there would be no issue on this subject......

Apathy is not the call for Americans to follow, as our nation is falling apart, rapidly...

In my humble opinion, all Americans who speak out, are NOT anti-Obama, NOT racist, nor are they UNAMERICAN. We are not blind sheep to be bought and sold as commodities. It is those like Robert and River keep me inspired with HOPE that the people WILL UNITE for the betterment of ALL. The future generations of our nation will have to deal with our actions of TODAY.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:54 am
DAR...EVEN IT IT WAS TOO LATE........THE WARRIORS FOR GOOD AND JUST AMONGST US WILL ENSUE AND ENSURE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

THE OBAMAS ARE THE FACE OF FRAUDULANT TRANSPARENCIES AND New White House-"Party-Crasher (Shalahis)"


ALL HE HAS TO DO IS COUGH UP HIS CERTIFICATE THAT HE HAD SEALED.......AND RIDE IN THE PLEASURE SMITTING DOWN THE FOOLS......HE DOESN'T DO THIS, BECAUSE HE CAN'T.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 12:51 pm
I do not believe that there will never be another African American in the White House River because I think the majority of Americans have grown up enough to see past skin color. He never would have won in the first place if that was not the case. It probably will not happen again in my old lifetime but I was glad I lived to see it. I was hoping it would be someone with more experience as I do believe that is Obama's biggest weakness.

I was very sorry to hear that the survivors of 911 are going to have to relive that nightmare all over again and that those terrorists will be given rights that all those innocent people they killed on that day never had a chance to have. I am really upset that this administration is going to give those murderers a voice on American soil when there were so many thousands no longer have one. They could just as easily be tried where they are. Security reasons alone make more sense to do that.

We need to take care of so many things in this world right now but if the radicals are not stopped in their tracks there will be nothing we will be able to do about anything. True evil showed its face on 911 and this administration is giving that evil a voice to spew their poison to the world.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 12:53 pm
LOL -- doesn't need a passport to come back into USA??

Saturday December 12, 2009, 1:05 pm
Just wanted to say that Obama is not reflection on African Americans or at least it shouldn't be. Some of my friends that are the angriest are African Americans.

If the Republicans are smart, well anyway, they will nominate the best person for the job. And if that person is African American, cool!

It's way past time that we become a colorblind society.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 1:09 pm
Matt p., we were same wavelength up to the Zionist reference. Northern, tell it like it is my brother. The entire New York civil trial decision is a pc inspired, propoganda enabling piece of stupidity by this by this amateur show. Why don't they just rsvp Bin Laden et al. for this ignorant display. Everybody brace for 3 more yrs of this turbulence. WE NEED A VIABLE, NON CAREER POLITICIANED THIRD PARTY NOW!!

Saturday December 12, 2009, 1:37 pm
NORTHERN AND PAUL...YOUR WORDS ARE TRUE........BUT THERE IS ONE PROBLEM........WATER RUNS DOWN HILL.....AND MANY WANT SPOON FED, AND WILL NOT TRAVEL THESE ROADS AGAIN.

PAUL, RIGHTFULLY SO, THAT YOUR FRIENDS, THE AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE THE ANGRIEST........THEY SMELL THE BLOOD AND REALITY OF THE OBAMAS.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 2:26 pm
Even if it were true that Pres. Obama was born in Kenya his mother was American, Mc Cain was born in Panama but his parents were Americans, does this mean that Mc Cain should not have run for President because he wasn't born here?

Saturday December 12, 2009, 2:29 pm
Well said Paul! They are the ones who took the biggest whipping for not supporting Obama. They lost friends and family members all because they were worried about the inexperience. Not fooled by the hype. In some groups we are protecting them because they took a heck of a lot of unwarranted abuse and attacks. There are many good politicians of every race in America but right now they are outnumbered by the bad ones. I believe that America will start cleaning house. I believe that Obama will be a one term President which is very sad for the historical mark he should be making on your country. Not quite the kind of history he promised but maybe it will get better as he learns?

Saturday December 12, 2009, 2:47 pm
River..., I guess I am torn between the truth you speak, and the reality of what will unfold within a nation of people who focus more on their differences, than their similarities. I am humbled by your words...

Saturday December 12, 2009, 3:40 pm
Hi Paul,
Actually it doesn't suprise me that you look at that site every day. I just discovered it, so I just wanted to let everyone else know that it exists.

You are right, the list is just too long to print here. Not to mention the explanations of each action are also several paragraphs long.

I'm not sure I'm up to starting a news story with many of Obama's wonderful accomplishments. It would be a lot of work, but I'll consider it.


Somebody, please comment on Kekuhoumana's post that contains the proof of Obama's birthplace. The proof will be found by doing what she suggested. If you aren't willing to do that much, then you don't have a leg to stand on.

River, I don't ever recall his grandmother saying that he was born in Kenya. Can you direct me to where I can research this on my own?

And BTW, There isn't a single issue in this world that doesn't have opponents. That does not imply apathy on either side. It means that everyone sees things differently and comes to differnt conclusions.

YOU are saying that anyone who disagrees with you is apathetic. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are not an all-knowing god on this issue. (grin)

Saturday December 12, 2009, 4:53 pm
From Factcheck.org:

Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: November 1, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

There is more on this article, and there are high-resolution pics of the birth certificate. Wow, it was so easy to find this info. Why don't you believe it?

Saturday December 12, 2009, 8:29 pm
Deanna, you are correct. Just keep in mind there are many who actualy do not want to know the truth, nor will take the time to find it. They dwell on these negitive things. They shun the light for darkness and fear. And fear is a great tool of the facists groups that want to run this country. I am happy that there are people like you who actually do check for true and actual facts. But, just watch, the naysayers will just keep going over the same crap, change the subect, anything but to do the right thing. That is amazing.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 8:37 pm
Hiya Nick! All is irrelevant really. There is immense disappointment about the promise of transparency not yet kept. There is still time for Obama to open up a bit and put all of this to rest. If he is has nothing to hide I am sure he will .... the anger and disappointment towards this administration is rising fast among Americans and that is not helpful.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 9:00 pm
Please research further. This is from http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/obama/ (my birth certificate looks exactly like the one on the left, in the examples at the site)

FACTCHECK.ORG: False claims and undisclosed conflict of interest

FactCheck.org is an arm of the powerful Annenberg Foundation which also runs the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, the entity which employed Barack Obama as its chairman of the board. FactCheck.org conducted an allegedly "independent" analysis of Obama's 2007 computer-generated birth document (see image link above, on right).

According to the National Review, the Annenberg Challenge was founded by former “Weather Underground” terrorist Bill Ayers, who apparently played a pivotal role in politically positioning Obama to run for public office. See this National Review article detailing Obama’s relationship to Annenberg and Ayers and its unsuccessful efforts to review the archives of the Annenberg Challenge.

FactCheck is guilty of making the patently false claim that the Hawaii "…Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu…" See http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html. Hawaii officials have made NO such claim. See specific rebuttal at top of this page.

On the same web page FactCheck also falsely states that, “FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate.” In truth, the document examined by FactCheck is a 2007 computer-generated document and is obviously not the “original” Obama 1961 birth certificate sought by the Foundation.

These are simply and unequivocally, false statements.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 10:30 pm
The Democrats and Republicans have been so much inbred over time that all they can do is present their best bastards for elections. Sadly the American voters are left with choosing which bastard is the better choice.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 10:30 pm
Nick,
Right on que!

Saturday December 12, 2009, 10:58 pm
I agree with you Paul Puckett. Obama's successful rise to power was was strongly due to the irresponsible actions of the media we all place our trust in. As the campaign progressed and the whispered rumors of his ineligibility turned to shouted questions, I noticed how it looked like two dogs chasing each others tail. The more the media seemed excited about Obama the greater the crowd turnout for his appearances. And his appeal to the interests of each crowd seemed tailored and focused on each. Latinos favored open borders and amnesty, and felt a person of color was their best chance. Obama's election was a direct ignorance of the preachings of Martin Luther King Jr., in that a person's character was ignored for the color of his skin.

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:30 pm
Martin Luther King! A great American!

Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:30 pm
About Factcheck.org:

If they had said their staffers had examined a "genuine computer-generated, laser-printed certification of live birth, of Barack Hussein Obama II, made on June 6 2007" they would have told the truth, legally speaking.

http://theobamafile.com/_eligibility/AnnenbergFactCheckers.htm
http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/11/this-from-obama-file-one-of-best.html

But for them to say they saw the "original" birth certificate is false and misleading statement that only a fool would believe. Also, FactCheck.org has not seen or at least is not displaying, a certified copy of the "original" birth certificate, since we can see examples of the Nordyke twins BC online.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/assets/gif/M1139416728.GIF
http://passportsusa.com/wp-content/gallery/passportusa/edith_front.jpg

BTW -- Should you leave the USA, even for lunch in Canada, be sure you have a USA passport or other documents which will let you return to the USA.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:18 am
Dar,
I checked out the link you provided, which led me to a WE THE PEOPLE FOUNDATION article. I clicked on some links, and this one is under the heading of
HAWAII OFFICIALS REFUSE TO CONFIRM OBAMA HAWAII BIRTH

The link is "official Hawaii Dept. of Health press release".

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
News Release
LINDA LINGLE
GOVERNOR
_________________________________________
CHIYOME LEINAALA FUKINO M.D.
DIRECTOR
_________________________________________
For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93
STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that **the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.**

“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”
____________________________________

Clearly, the heading is a lie, according to the press release.


Under the heading INDONESIAN SCHOOL RECORDS
This paragraph says "(original copy and translation shown)" but the Indonesian school record link provided is for a student named Barry Soetoro. I have never heard anyone claim that "Barry" changed his last name when his mother married Lolo Soetoro. In fact, his own sister calls him Barack. I also found it interesting that the :school document" didn't give his full name, rather than a nick name.

Under the heading SWORN AFFIDAVITS

In this link, the "affidavit" says "Mr. Odinga is the cousin of United States Senator Barack Obama; Mr. Obama is from the same Muslim tribe, the Luo Tribe, as Mr. Odinga."

LOL, All decendents from the tribe of David can claim they are from the tribe of David. That has nothing to do with where they were born.

It also says Obama donated $1Mil to his brother's campaign. Huh?

Under the heading FACTCHECK.ORG: False claims and undisclosed conflict of interest

It's claimed that because Obama worked for the Annenberg Foundation, and Factcheck.org is an arm of this HIGHLY REPUTABLE foundation, that means Factcheck.org could be lieing about Obama.

What does it mean to be an "arm" of the foundation?

This article also tries to put stronger ties between Obama and Bill Ayers. It's already been proven that there is a very weak tie there.

I also clicked on the link http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html which took me to a Factcheck.org article

This link COMPLETELY SUPPORTS that Obama was born in Hawai'i. But the article calls it a "patently false claim."

Even tho Factcheck.org says it has reviewed the computer generated copy AND the original birth certificate, this article states that only the computer generated copy was examined.

What proof do you have that BOTH items were not examined?

I know for a fact that certified copies of birth certificates can ONLY be gotten by authorized parties, and never just because.

What has been presented has been verified as proof of his birth place. VERIFIED AS PROOF people. Just because you aren't getting what you want (or don't believe those who say they've gotten what you want) doesn't mean there is anything wrong. It just means that you don't like Obama.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:38 am
I seem to recall that he Annenberg Foundation has something to do with George Soros? or was it Acorn? or were they are all tied together somehow?

Sunday December 13, 2009, 1:03 am
... "For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93
STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that **the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.**

“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.” ....

-----
Actually if you learn to read the laws of Hawaii, you discover something interesting.
HRS §338-18 Disclosure of records.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:

(1) The registrant;

(2) The spouse of the registrant;

(3) A parent of the registrant;

(4) A descendant of the registrant;

(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;

(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;

(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;

(8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate;

(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;

(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.

(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:

(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;

(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or

(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes.
--
As you can see, under HRS HRS §338-18(d) you may request "Index data". And under HRS HRS §338-18(g) (3) thru (5) your options improve.

Now that you are an active member of Care2, you fall under HRS §338-18(g)(5) as "An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes." And you may request a certified copy of a vital statistic record. Now, should the government of Hawaii refuse your request, then you sue. If, a few hundred or thousands file suits, then it just gets costly and time consuming for Hawaii.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 2:54 pm
((((This article also tries to put stronger ties between Obama and Bill Ayers. It's already been proven that there is a very weak tie there.))))

Proven by whom? Link please.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 3:08 pm
Great question NE as the actually research puts Obama and Ayers together in very close quarters for a number of years. As well there are pictures posted recently on FSM of his non relationship with Blago in Chicago. A picture is worth a thousand words they say! Really angered one of our members when she found them ....

No pictures of Ayers but the actual written history of their proximity is very telling. I shall start post information after the New Year. Not all was successfully washed from the web and covered up.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 3:11 pm
Exactly the point of my question. From all I have seen he has been associated with Ayers quite a bit for several years.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 3:12 pm
BTW Northern have you seen this today?


Sunday, December 13, 2009
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The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 23% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -19.

Today is the second straight day that Obama’s Approval Index rating has fallen to a new low.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 5:30 pm
This is not proof, but it's a New York Times article chronicling the Obama-Ayers connection thru the years.

But I'm sure I've just wasted my time, as nothing will convince you that there is nothing more to them than is mentioned here. You'll keep digging for anything, even made-up stuff to show what a rotten person Obama is.

www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html

Why does it may you so happy that his approval ratings have dropped? He's done so many good things already, but the only thing the media focuses on is what is controversial. Don't you like ANY of the things he's done so far?

I think it's pretty sick to rejoice in the pain or downfall or even the imagined failings of others.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 5:41 pm
We all had to be born someplace...does it matter where/

I was adopted and recently went to seek my real birth records. Does that mean my life to that date was a lie...or that i ceased to be the person I was seen to be.

I see a lot of hot air on this thread but very little of substance...and most of that substance is being abused.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 7:30 pm
Old issue, but still a concern. What surprises me here, is how some of you react when someone has an opinion that is different than yours. She is posting an article. Maybe to her, it is a valid concern. If it is not a valid concern to others, so be it. But to remove people from friends list, just because someone believes different, is a little childish. Maybe some people's versions of friendship are different from mine. Personally, I have a problem with a President who can't salute the flag at a Veteran's Day ceremony, or but his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. Every time I try to give him the benefit of the doubt he keeps disappointing me. But that's just my opinion. And no I am not a Republican. Amen to what you said, Matt P and Vicky.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 7:48 pm
Yes David, it is a big deal. In order to be a presidential candidate you must have been born in the US. If he wasn't he is not legally the president. Quite frankly, I hope he is legit. Otherwise we would be stuck with Biden as POTUS....even worse than that....Pelosi would be 2nd in line after Biden.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 8:25 pm
Barack Hussein Obama II, could be the best president the USA ever had, but if he got position by fraud, or is proven not qualified, then he should resign or be sent packing. There is no hate or racism, just a question of character, like MLK spoke about.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 8:37 pm
lol, you really got everyone's attention with this news River! Very, very interesting stuff.

I did not know that this was even an issue. The healthcare reform has been making us all very nervous and now we have to worry about our president hiding information about where he was born and about his college education? I find this to be disturbing. I don't usually like to get involved with political discussions, but these are things that should have been looked into BEFORE he became president. I hope you will keep us updated River. Thank you for sharing.

Sunday December 13, 2009, 9:58 pm
First of all the New York Times is a liberal news source and is not to be relied upon. Secondly Obama and Ayers worked together for a number of years sharing the same office so I hardly think they 'barely knew each other' ... This stuff was out there and McCain should have made it an issue .... There is much more than just this .... but as he said - "I could have ran against a regular candidate - but how do you run against a Mesiah?"
Did you really want to know the truth because if you did you could have found it for yourself. I found it from Canada. I know Ne L was here trying to tell everyone along with many other people but instead of being questioned and consideration given to what they knew to be fact - they were attacked over and over again by people on this site who did not want the truth to get out.
Your country is in HUGE trouble and you should be afraid of this health care "reform' .... Very afraid because it is gong to be the middle class American hit with the expense of a program that will not even come into effect until 2013 .... It is laid out as election bait but you start paying for it NOW .... It is a lousy bill - and does not bring about the kind of reform in your health care system that you need for all of you to benefit from ....
Do you know that your national debt level has been raised again over the weekend and if you do not know this
WHY AREN'T YOU PAYING ATTENTION AMERICA????

Monday December 14, 2009, 2:30 am
perhaps her concerns would seem a bit more valid were this article not accompanied by a picture of a birth certificate signed by Jack Kervokian.

also, to those who say these issues should have been raised and researched before he became President, THEY WERE. and again, after he won the election but before his innauguration. answers were found, and he was found to indeed be eligible for the presidency. some people just don't want to accept this.

again, the birth certificate signed by Jack Kervorkian takes this from being a potentially valid (albeit desperate) concern, to being utter garbage.

Monday December 14, 2009, 2:40 am
and to clarify, I am not taking issue with River herself. it is this specific story my criticism is directed at.

Monday December 14, 2009, 6:34 am
River, I know you not at all but the use of Kervokian's name on that B.C. has generated a lot of thought. From the sensible and the still senseless it would seem!

Monday December 14, 2009, 7:41 am
Jack Kevorkian (pronounced /kɛˈvɔrkiːɛn/;[1] born May 26, 1928)[2] is an American pathologist, right-to-die activist, painter, composer, and instrumentalist. He is most noted for publicly championing a terminal patient's right to die via physician-assisted suicide; he claims to have assisted at least 130 patients to that end. He famously said that "dying is not a crime."[3]

Between 1999 and 2007, Kevorkian served eight years of a 10-to-25-year prison sentence for second-degree murder. He was released on parole on June 1, 2006, due to good behavior.[4]

An oil painter and a jazz musician, Kevorkian has marketed limited quantities of his visual and musical artwork to the public

according to Wikipedia that is...is this the same guy?

Monday December 14, 2009, 7:47 am
The colourful life of Jack Kevorkian

May 28, 1928
Kevorkian is born in Pontiac, Michigan, the son of Armenian immigrants.

1952
Graduates from University of Michigan medical school with a specialty in pathology.

1956
Publishes journal article, "The Fundus Oculi and the Determination of Death," discussing his efforts to photograph the eyes of dying patients, a practice that earned him the nickname "Doctor Death."

December 1958
Presents paper at meeting in Washington, D.C., advocating medical experimentation on consenting convicts during executions. Embarrassed, University of Michigan officials ask Kevorkian to leave his residency there.

1961
Publishes article in The American Journal of Clinical Pathology detailing his experiments on transfusing blood from cadavers to live patients.

1970
Becomes chief pathologist at Saratoga General Hospital in Detroit.

Late 1970s
Quits pathology career, travels to California, and invests life savings in directing and producing a feature movie based on Handel's "Messiah." With no distributor, the movie flops.

1980s
Publishes numerous articles in the obscure German journal Medicine and Lawoutlining his ideas on euthanasia and ethics.

1987
Advertises in Detroit papers as a "physician consultant" for "death counseling."

1988
Kevorkian's article, "The Last Fearsome Taboo: Medical Aspects of Planned Death," is published in Medicine and Law. In it, he outlines his proposed system of planned deaths in suicide clinics, including medical experimentation on patients.

1989
Using $30 worth of scrap parts scrounged from garage sales and hardware stores, Kevorkian builds his "suicide machine" at the kitchen table of his Royal Oak, Michigan, apartment.

June 4, 1990
Kevorkian is present at the death of Janet Adkins, a 54-year-old Portland, Oregon, woman with Alzheimer's disease. Her death using the "suicide machine" occurs in Kevorkian's 1968 Volkswagen van in Groveland Oaks Park near Holly, Michigan.

June 8, 1990
An Oakland County Circuit Court Judge enjoins Kevorkian from aiding in any suicides.

December 12, 1990
District Court Judge Gerald McNally dismisses murder charge against Kevorkian in death of Adkins.

October 23, 1991
Kevorkian attends the deaths of Marjorie Wantz, a 58-year-old Sodus, Michigan, woman with pelvic pain, and Sherry Miller, a 43-year-old Roseville, Michigan, woman with multiple sclerosis. The deaths occur at a rented state park cabin near Lake Orion, Michigan. Wantz dies from the suicide machine's lethal drugs, Miller from carbon monoxide poisoning inhaled through a face mask.

November 20, 1991
The state Board of Medicine summarily revokes Kevorkian's license to practice medicine in Michigan.

May 15, 1992
Susan Williams, a 52-year-old woman with multiple sclerosis, dies from carbon monoxide poisoning in her home in Clawson, Michigan.

July 21, 1992
Oakland County Circuit Court Judge David Breck dismisses charges against Kevorkian in deaths of Miller and Wantz. Oakland County Prosecutor Richard Thompson appeals.

September 26, 1992
Lois Hawes, 52, a Warren, Michigan, woman with lung and brain cancer, dies from carbon monoxide poisoning at the home of Kevorkian's assistant Neal Nicol in Waterford Township, Michigan.

November 23, 1992
Catherine Andreyev of Moon Township, Pennsylvania, dies in Nicol's home. She was 45 and had cancer. Hers is the first of 10 deaths Kevorkian attends over the next three months; all die from inhaling carbon monoxide.

December 3, 1992 The Michigan Legislature passes a ban on assisted suicide to take effect on March 30, 1993.

February 15, 1993
Hugh Gale, a 70-year-old man with emphysema and congestive heart disease, dies in his Roseville home. Prosecutors investigate after Right-to-Life advocates find papers that show Kevorkian altered his account of Gale's death, deleting a reference to a request by Gale to halt the procedure.

February 25, 1993
Michigan Governor John Engler signs the legislation banning assisted suicide. It makes aiding in a suicide a four-year felony but allows law to expire after a blue-ribbon commission studies permanent legislation.

April 27, 1993
A California law judge suspends Kevorkian's medical license after a request from that state's medical board.

August 4, 1993
Thomas Hyde, a 30-year-old Novi, Michigan, man with ALS, is found dead in Kevorkian's van on Belle Isle, a Detroit park.

September 9, 1993
Hours after a judge orders him to stand trial in Hyde's death, Kevorkian is present at the death of cancer patient Donald O'Keefe, 73, in Redford Township, Michigan.

November 5-8, 1993
Kevorkian fasts in Detroit jail after refusing to post $20,000 bond in case involving Hyde's death.

November 29, 1993
Kevorkian begins fast in Oakland County jail for refusing to post $50,000 bond after being charged in the October death of Merian Frederick, 72.

December 17, 1993
Kevorkian ends fast and leaves jail after Oakland County Circuit Court Judge reduces bond to $100 in exchange for his vow not to assist in any more suicides until state courts resolve the legality of his practice.

January 27, 1994
Circuit Court Judge dismisses charges against Kevorkian in two deaths, becoming the fifth lower court judge in Michigan to rule that assisted suicide is a constitutional right.

May 2, 1994
A Detroit jury acquits Kevorkian of charges he violated the state's assisted suicide ban in the death of Thomas Hyde.

May 10, 1994
The Michigan Court of Appeals strikes down the state's ban on assisted suicide on the grounds it was enacted unlawfully.

November 8, 1994
Oregon becomes the first state to legalize assisted suicide when voters pass a tightly restricted Death with Dignity Act. But legal appeals keep the law from taking effect.

November 26, 1994
Hours after Michigan's ban on assisted suicide expires, 72-year-old Margaret Garrish dies of carbon monoxide poisoning in her home in Royal Oak. She had arthritis and osteoporosis. Kevorkian is not present when police arrive.

December 13, 1994
The Michigan Supreme Court upholds the constitutionality of Michigan's 1993-94 ban on assisted suicide and also rules assisted suicide is illegal in Michigan under common law. The ruling reinstates cases against Kevorkian in four deaths.

June 26, 1995
Kevorkian opens a "suicide clinic" in an office in Springfield Township, Michigan. Erika Garcellano, a 60-year-old Kansas City, Missouri, woman with ALS, is the first client. A few days later, the building's owner kicks out Kevorkian.

September 14, 1995
Kevorkian arrives at the Oakland County Courthouse in Pontiac, Michigan in homemade stocks with ball and chain. He is ordered to stand trial for assisting in the 1991 suicides of Sherry Miller and Marjorie Wantz.

October 30, 1995
A group of doctors and other medical experts in Michigan announces its support of Kevorkian, saying they will draw up a set of guiding principles for the "merciful, dignified, medically-assisted termination of life."

February 1, 1996
New England Journal of Medicine publishes massive studies of physicians attitudes towards doctor-assisted suicide in Oregon and Michigan. Studies demonstrate that a large number of physicians surveyed support, in some conditions, doctor-assisted suicide.

March 6, 1996
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco rules that mentally competent, terminally ill adults have a constitutional right to aid in dying from doctors, health care workers and family members. It is the first time a federal appeals court endorses assisted suicide.

March 8, 1996
A jury acquits Kevorkian in two deaths.

March 20, 1996
Representative Dave Camp (R-MI), introduces a bill in the U.S. House to prohibit tax-payer funding of assisted suicide.

April 1,1996
Trial begins in Kevorkian's home town of Pontiac in the deaths of Miller and Wantz. For the start of his third criminal trial, he wears colonial costume--tights, a white powdered wig, and big buckle shoes--a protest against the fact that he is being tried under centuries-old common law. He would face a maximum of five years in prison and a $10, 000 fine if convicted in the Wantz/Miller deaths. On May 14, 1996 the jury acquitted him.

November 4, 1996
Kevorkian's lawyer announces a previously unreported assisted suicide of a 54-year-old woman. This brings the total number of his assisted suicides, since 1990, to 46.

June 12, 1997
In Kevorkian's fourth trial, a judge declares a mistrial. The case is later dropped.

June 26, 1997
The U.S. Supreme Court rules unanimously that state governments have the right to outlaw doctor-assisted suicide. The Court had been asked to decide whether state laws banning the practice in New York and Washington were unconstitutional.

November 5, 1997
Oregon residents vote to uphold the state's assisted suicide law, the first of its kind in the nation. The law allows doctors to prescribe lethal doses of drugs to terminally ill patients.

March 14, 1998
This day marks Kevorkian's 100th assisted suicide, involving a 66-year-old Detroit man.

September 1, 1998
Michigan's second law outlawing physician-assisted suicide goes into effect.

November 3, 1998
Michigan voters reject a proposal to legalize physician-assisted suicide for the terminally ill.

November 22, 1998
CBS's "60 Minutes" airs a videotape showing Kevorkian giving a lethal injection to Thomas Youk, 52, who suffered from Lou Gehrig's disease. The broadcast triggers an intense debate within medical, legal and media circles.

November 25, 1998
Michigan charges Kevorkian with first-degree murder, violating the assisted suicide law and delivering a controlled substance without a license in the death of Youk. Prosecutors later drop the suicide charge. Kevorkian insists on defending himself during the trial and threatens to starve himself if he is sent to jail.

April 13, 1999
Convicted of second-degree murder and delivery of a controlled substance in the death of Youk, a Michigan judge sentences Kevorkian to 10-25 years in prison. He would be eligible for parole in six years. Kevorkian plans to appeal.

Monday December 14, 2009, 7:55 am
Same guy, but I didn't realize that he was also a jazz musician.

Monday December 14, 2009, 10:20 am
Hawaii is one of the most corrupt states in the union when it comes to paper trail fraud-they are backward and full of scams to get anything updated illegally.You can buy a Renoir from Lahaina with someone in Chicago saying it's authentic when itsn't.That's doesn't surprise me the Obama fraudalent bir.cert.Remember these islands are out there in Pacific with no one keeping a tab on anything they want to sweep under the carpet.Someone is making big bucks hiding the truth from the American people.But it is up to the people to demand gospel truth.

Monday December 14, 2009, 10:24 am
Remember desperate people (dem) do desperate things in order to attain massive power - the keys to the W/h can make anyone commit fraud or sell their little granny.Losing two elections were quite shell shock for the dem.

Monday December 14, 2009, 6:09 pm
Having come through the primaries and then been elected and sworn in...do you really think that such a matter would not have been checked...so you have not seen the certificate...has he seen yours? Get real and with the plot here...I find that a so-called certificate with the Post Independence Flag (doh) and the signiture of a jail bird, failed medical man cum-suicide pervayer,a lot more suspicious than any story that I have heard elsewhere.

Monday December 14, 2009, 9:58 pm
Northern,
If you don't believe something in the NY Times, then it's up to you to research it.

It doesn't look like you even read the NY Times article I suggested. If you had read it, you would have seen that the years they spent on the same board, there were very few board meetings.

I saw nothing about them sharing the same office. Can you get me an address? Or did they share the same office, only at different times?

The attacks, while wrong, had nothing to do with not wanting to get the truth out. Do you honestly believe that I know the truth that you proclaim, and I'm only here to squelch it's publicity?

Honestly, that's laughable. The fact is, you guys WANT to believe a certain thing, and so you do, at all costs. If you really investigated, you'd see something else.

I investigate, and I know something else.

Re health care reform, doing nothing is worse than TRYING SOMETHING. I'm not afraid because whatever you THINK the plan involves is not the truth of it.

And yes, I heard about the national debt.

Monday December 14, 2009, 10:09 pm
...oyeee...NY Times, in my opinion, isn't a "bias" media source, just like Factcheck.org with this issue, but of course that is just my lil ole opinion.

Tuesday December 15, 2009, 12:37 am
None of your American media is reliable at the moment. They are all running on their own agenda and I will start posting what I found with the cites at FSM after Christmas Deanna ... You can read it all from the outside and find me wandering around here. I totally agree that your health care system is way past due an overhaul but it is so important that they get it right. In England for example their health care system is the biggest employer in the world. If you were to have a government take over of yours it would not be long before you got that prize and it is a system much like the one here in Canada. It is a system that becomes nothing more than a money pit and though we used to get a lot covered here it has been cut way back.

I personally do not care if Obama was born in the North Pole. Being a Canadian citizen is all u have to be here in Canada to run for the leadership of this country. Your Congress and Senate are something to really worry about. So perhaps Obama will bring about the change you all hoped for just by waking you up to the fact that your Republic is at risk by allowing such government intervention in your life. It is insidious .... once one right is gone others follow .... There are many changes they can make to your health care that would make it much more affordable for Americans that's for sure!

BTW, you are a very informed poster and I like to read your views on issues! I did read that article but the ones you should be looking for that I think are more relevant are the ones that I came across in the newspapers in Chicago where he came from. I was able to find them on line a few months ago. Very interesting ones about him and his posse!

Tuesday December 15, 2009, 4:35 am
I like everybody here so I'm just going to say, FOLKS we are the peons:)
Maybe I'm still resentful that Dennis was pushed out, I don't know.
I really would like to see the common working peons of this country band together and stop letting them tear us apart, especially on issues where nobody got killed. I still would like to see them admit 9/11 was a white flag. These are powerful people and anymore I'm not so sure the same people aren't running BOTH parties.
And just for the record,,, if they didn't have the backbone to impeach bush & cheney for lies and breaking our laws, International laws and the Geneva Convention,, it's a birth certificate and yes, I agree we have a right to be sure, but don't beat each other up over it because if they don't want us to know, they'll just keep putting misinformation out there and yes, I believe both parties are more than guilty of that. And I blame the bush regime for that, before he took office we could get into government files on the net. And lest we forget bush WAS AWOL, okay this is history but you get my point.

Tuesday December 15, 2009, 10:17 am
DEANNA...WHERE I WAS RESEARCHING THIS, I FOUND A STATEMENT IN AN ARTICLE THAT I WAS PROMPTED TO READ ON THE WEB........I WILL HAVE TO DIG THAT NEEDLE OUT OF THE HAY STACK AND GET BACK TO YOU WITH THAT INFORMATION REFERENCING TO WHAT OBAMA'S GRANDMOTHER ADMITTED TO OBAMA BEING BORN IN KENYA....I PROMISE YOU, IT DOES EXIST. ALSO, KUDOS TO YOU, YOUR COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS...YOUR ESSENCE.

Tuesday December 15, 2009, 10:22 am
ALSO....AS MENTIONED ABOUT OBAMA'S SPENDING.....HE JUST SENT 10BILLION TO DUBAI...AND HE CONTINUES SENDING AND SPENDING MONEY ABROAD INSTEAD OF SPENDING IT HERE AND MAKING OUR PEOPLE AND UNITED STATES STRONGER. WHILE I AM NOT FOR THE SPENDING OF WALL STREET, WHICH OBAMA MET WITH LAST WEEK; I WOULD HAVE RATHER HE SENT THE 10BILLION TO OUR BANKS AND WALLSTREET INSTEAD OF TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

I BELIEVE HE KNOWS HE WON'T BE RE-ELECTED....AND NOW IS ON A SPENDING SPREE...HOWEVER, HE SPENDS TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

OBAMA IS A TRAITOR TO OUR COUNTRY...AND HIS ACTIONS AGAIN AND AGAIN SHOWS IT.

Tuesday December 15, 2009, 9:34 pm
This is fun! I married Charley in 1981, and he taught me about politics (so I could actually get into it and enjoy it). We used to have political discussions all the time, and he/we watched C-SPAN & C-SPAN 2, and alll the debates. He was truly my political mentor for many years. And even after we divorced, and when I re-married, Charley and I never stopped talkiing politics.

When he died in 2000, not only did I lose my best friend, but I lost my only connection to thought-provoking discussions (my husband is great in many things, but deep thought isn't one of them). I could listen to what people were saying, but I had no one to debate them with, and therefore had to listen to the commentators, from all sides, in order to get a fuller picture of what each issue was about. I could like certain things about different viewpoints, but ultimately I had to vote for issues I thought would be in the publics best interest overall. It's rare I vote with only myself in mind (if ever).

So I am so thrilled to have found Care2's C2NN and the poll discussions. And I want to thank all of you for the stars and kudos. I really didn't know I had all this in me, and I'm really enjoying bringing it out.

Now, I just flew into San Francisco today from GA, and spent the day in Sacramento shopping for organic food. And finally got to my CA home just a few hours ago. So, I'm going to head off to bed, and I'll try to respond to you tommorow after my appointments.

Oh, and River, I did see the article that says Obama's grandmother was present at his birth in Kenya. I will admit that the supposed apparent secrecy on Kenya's part is interesting. But it isn't proof by any means. That is something I would be willing to look into a bit further, but I'm not sure how far I can get if Hawai'i is saying they have the original birth cert in their archives, and Kenya won't produce any evidence to the contrary.

Nighty night all!

Tuesday December 15, 2009, 10:48 pm
Well said all! Deanna. It is fun to debate as long as we remain rational about what we say and most here do it would appear! This has been a great thread so far! River, I have the greatest of faith in the American people turning the fiscal irresponsibility of members of your house and senate by voting them out in the next election.

As long as we remember many died to give us the right to agree to disagree this will continue to be a good thread and I am looking forward to more conversation!

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 8:14 am
Mindy,
"these are things that should have been looked into BEFORE he became president."

Why do you think these things WEREN'T looked into before he became president? Don't you think the GOP has enough money and reason to do everything possible to get THEIR candidate (McCain) elected?

If even McCain is saying he is a Christian born in Hawaii, don't you think you should believe him? Or is McCain untrustworthy, too? (grin).

Seriously tho, if you don't believe Obama's camp, and you don't believe McCain's camp, then what party DO you wish were in office? And are THEY saying Obama is an illegal president, too?
This is a VERY important question, River. What party do you belive in that is saying Obama is an illegal president?

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 10:35 am
River,
The question about the money that I referred to was in the same article that Obama's grandmother supposedly said that Obama was born in Kenya. The article stated that before Obama even thought about running for president, he sent $1 million to Kenya to support his brothers' election campaign.

That is patently absurd. Obama has never had that much money; not even now. And when he was campaigning, he raised money for his OWN elcection, not somebody elses. (grin).

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 11:33 am
Try to escape this vortex:

Does anyone wish to address HOW or WHY President Barack Obama completely ignored the rising U.S. unemployment numbers for his 'entire' first year in office????????????????

No lame excuses acceptable!!!

Ohh come on, Bush is no longer Obama's crutch, because Obama knew way in advance of Campaign 2008 what he could 'really' do and what he could 'not really' accomplish by his entering the presidency!

There are still those who are being continuously SUCKERED!!!

==========

* George Soros & Barack Obama Update ---

* Related Care2 Article:

"George Soros & President Barack Obama Still Working Together - Archive June 2009" - Care2/Business Week


Signature; THE FIFTH KNIGHT'S NEWS

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 1:43 pm
Hi Northern
I'm not worried about a govt take-over of our health-care industry. After all, it's really "insurance reform" that we've been debating on. Health care is always being reformed according to new information.

The debate on a govt option has been overblown, since it would have made up a very small part of the new reforms. I thinkt he insurance and pharmecuetical companies have been fighting HARD to hand out misinformation (not unusual for them) in order to bring unawarranted fear to the public. I also think that a lot of republicans get a lot of their campaign funding from these industries, which is why they oppose making them angry and losing that funding.

We, as a nation, really are aware of the insidious intervention of govt in our lives. Most notably in our sex lives. Do you know that it is a crime in New Hampshire to commit adultery, punishable by a fine of up to $1200?

Who says we can't regulate morals? lol.

"once one right is gone others follow ..."

With the exception of Bush and Nixon, who blatently broke many laws, overall, our rights are always being fought FOR. Even when we lose a "right," we fight to get it back. That is one thing we can say proudly about our citizens; we're always "mad as hell, and we aren't going to take it anymore." lol

Just look at River's latest. I don't agree with her at all on this, but I'd fight to keep her right to pursue it. Plus, even tho I think THIS fight is nonsense, I like much of what she has to stand for in other areas. So this is my way of showing that we can STRONGLY disagree on some issues, and still be friends (right River?) (grin)

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 1:46 pm
Robert,
"Does anyone wish to address HOW or WHY President Barack Obama completely ignored the rising U.S. unemployment numbers for his 'entire' first year in office????????????????"

1st, no. I do not want to address this issue on this thread.
2nd, you are misinformed, which would lead to a discussion on this thread. So, no, I do not want to address it here. (grin).

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 1:47 pm
Very well stated Deanna! Some here at Care 2 really do miss the 'agree to disagree' point in debate! Americans have always been able to united under their flag but the past twenty years your country folk have become to drastically divided it is concerning. I pray that common ground will be found again.

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 2:39 pm
Where is number 3 Deanna:)
I liked that obama did start right away at rebuilding bridges between America and other Countries.
However I haven't a clue as to why the peons of America are once again on the back burners. (well, that's not completely true, I realize we just aren't that important to the rich)
I'm like Bo he's a cutie patutie, but obama promised to save a dog from a kill shelter. That means they are going to die real soon if not adopted.
Soon means a few minutes to 5 days tops.
He told the AR community that he had gone vegan. Which isn't an easy thing to do, most have to go vegetarian first. Now did he or didn't he say he'd NOT received money from the oil giants? Of course mccain REALLY got lots from them. Several million. Note my Dennis Kucinich didn't take money from them:)
I know I'm a die hard fan:)

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.php?ind=E01&cycle=2008&recipdetail=P&mem=N&sortorder=U

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 4:37 pm
Here is what Snopes says about this nonsense


http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp


If you wish to overthrow the govenment of the United States , you'll have to find some actual evidence... this FAKE story could have easily been checked on Snopes to see if it was valid or not rather than try to create a scandal.

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 4:55 pm
The Pro-Obamanites will continuously refuse to believe that something is seriously wrong with the United States Government, right up until the time where President Obama and George Soros drag their clutching bodies off their couches and out of their houses screaming . . .

And shaking them upside down in the streets for their worthless pocket change!!!!!

Only then it will be too late for any of us!

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 5:27 pm
Sir Robert THE FIFTH KNIGHT,

You disappoint me sir, it is never too late!

I suspect you agree?

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 5:42 pm
I absolutely agree Paul Puckett with rational mental reason, but not with closed-minded foolishness, however now we are nearly beyond the time for smooth constructive change, and entering into a more radical set of forced geo-political shifts.

If continuous applied pressure is not exerted upon our current government (not the Bush Administration or anyone else), then it will become more and more difficult to counter-balance the existing nature that our society has been grown to accustom!

In other words: If we don't do something now to control and guide this, then nothing will be the same and we would have to fight harder to get it back the way it is even now.

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 5:43 pm
Anybody relying on Snopes for the truth should be aware Snopes is a Mom and Pop outfit, not the investigative agency one would expect. Read their lists of sources at the bottom of the article.

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 5:56 pm
They are a left wing site as is Fact Check .... follow the money and you will reveal the truth!

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 7:06 pm
River,
In the recorded phone call, there is nothing that Sarah says that is intelligable. She is in the background, and the translator himself is even difficult to understand. At one point, the translator says that Sarah is proud of Obama. THAT does not sound like a proud grandmother. A proud grandmother would call her grandson by his FIRST name.

In the YouTube video, the bishop, Ron McRae, is asking questions.
*********
Ron: Amen. I am so thankful. Could I ask her, uh, about his, us, his actual birrthplace? I would like to see his actual birthplace when I, when I come to Kenya in December. Uh, was she present when he was , was she present when he was born in Kenya?

Translator to Sarah Obama: Alikuma zalima Obama (unintelligible)

Kweli Shuhubia: He is asking her, he wants to know something was ah she present when he was born?

Translator: Yes. She says "Yes she was! She was present when Obama was born."

Ron: Okay.
*********
Again, he is referred to as Obama, not Barack.
We cannot understand the question she is being asked in order to verify the translation. And, Sarah, according to the translation, never says he was born in Kenya. She says she was present when he was born. There is probably no way to find out if she was in Hawaii for his birth.

In the next YouTube video on the list the translations of Sarah may have been twisted to mean something other what was necessarily intended. When she says (if translation is correct) (translated) "Barack is a son of this village."

nate dhalani - translated to - born (in) this village"

I don't know that the word "in" is supposed to be included. It could mean "born OF this village" as in, his father was born here, and so he is considered to be of this village also.

"Or, using the English cognate, "is a native of this village."

I don't trust this translation, or the person who translated it. I don't know who translated it, or if s/he had an agenda. It could be that the village is so proud of Obama, that they want to make his association with them as close as possible. That would not be unheard of.

I am not a linguist, nor do I suggest that I know that this translation is wrong. But I do suggest that there are questions to it's true translation, seeing as how there are 62 dialects to choose from.

And another thing (River, pay close attention to this please): The bishop said he was going to visit the village in Dec '08 to see Obama's birthplace. Where is the documentation of his visit that shows Sarah Obama showing him the birthplace of Barack? This is such an important issue, yet there is nothing about that visit on YouTube. I would think that SOMEONE would have been able to get video proof of Sarah Obama giving a tour of his Kenyan birthplace and original home if it were true.

C'mon, are any of you willing to acknowledge that any of this is a definate blip in the believability factor?

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 7:15 pm
At the risk of appearing to care about Obama's birthplace, etc., Deanna, it is our practice to call people by their frist name. In many countries, the first name is last. I have no idea what the tradition is in Kenya, but without knowing that, I wouldn't make any assumptions on the name she used.

That said, I'm much more interested in his actions now.

Besides, everybody knows Obama is Irish, I posted the story a few days ago. He said so himself, during a speech last year. No matter how you feel about Obama, you might enjoy this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkw8ip43Vk

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 7:40 pm
Northern,
I know the process of getting to the point of having to agree to disagree can sometimes (often?) be very frustrating, and even agrivating. But we seem to be doing an unusually great job of it!

Also, are you really saying that if it's left-wing, it's automatically wrong? That nobody who is on the left could possibly have anything legitimate and honest to say about the left?

Kathy,
I know there were questions as to whether Obama took lobby funds or not, because of a loophole that he could have taken. But it was determined in the end that he did NOT use that loophole and did not take funds he said he wouldn't take.

The list from your link doesn't distinguish between PAC $$ and individual $$. So there is no way to know who gave what to whom. That's a bit disappointing.

I also don't think we "peons" are being ignored. PLEASE go to the official White House website and look at the 176 presidential actions taken so far. The very first action he signed was the Lily Ledbetter act promoting equal pay for equal work for women. There are SO MANY OTHER acts he's signed that take care of the "peons."

I'm still trying to figure out what he's done that justifies anyone calling him tyranical.

Nyack,
That Snopes article is very enlightening. Thanks.

Robert,
We KNOW there is something seriously wrong with the US. That is why we voted in Obama. But again, this thread isn't about anything except his birth certificate. There are other established threads where we can debate Obama's character. In fact, you started one of them. Please stay on topic here. I'm loving this one and would not like to change direction at this point. Thanks.

Gerry,
The sources in the Snopes article are various newspapers and interviewers. There is nothing wrong with that. Also, there is nothing wrong with being a Mom & Pop outfit. That doesn't denote any lack of integrity or intelligence.

Wednesday December 16, 2009, 9:28 pm
Oh no! I would not say that but I would say that all caution must be given to anything that is too far right or left. Like your news media right now in America. If you really want to know the truth about what is taking place in your country you MUST to outside of it for your news sources. You are not being told the truth.

Thursday December 17, 2009, 9:52 pm
Good Lord people. The President has produced his legal birth certificate, long ago. Also, the US CONGRESS approved a resolution with not one single vote against, affirming his birth in the US. Not one, nada, zip, zero, zilch, vote against it.

But I just heard earlier today some Birthers are now claiming that Obama was norn in Israel. The proof? He said "Happy Hannukkah" the other day.

I'm not making that up. True story.

Thursday December 17, 2009, 9:52 pm
Born, not "norn".

Sunday December 20, 2009, 4:32 am
I agree with you River 150%! I know he was born in Kenya I have an archived copy of him when he was running for Senator and it plainly says as a header Kenyan born. Now to get back to what he has been doing to destroy our country! The OBAMA ADM. took control of the water in California and made it into a dust bowl. California is known to be the bread basket of America. The farmers protested to no avail. Then OBAMA sent millions of dollars to Africa and is paying them to farm crops to be IMPORTED TO AMERICA! He is busing illegal alliens all the way from California and Arizona to a tiny little town in texas called Presidio, Texas. There is nothing there but desert and the illegals are NOT going to take off across the desert they are coming back into Presidio, Texas. Texas Governor Perry said OBAMA is targeting Texas. There is a lot more to this that I will not elaborate on here as I can see people are going to believe what that want to believe. But, one day soon I pray this will all be brought out into the open and no one will be able to say he is not an illegal alien that is presiding as president of the U.S.A.

Sunday December 20, 2009, 10:35 am
LOL Wolf! This is just too funny.

California is a dust bowl? WHAT???
Obama took control of the water??? What did he do with it?
CA has never been known as the bread baket of America. The midwest is known as the breadbasket of America, and it DID used to be a dust bowl.
As for the rest, please provide some information so it can be researched. For instance, why would Obama want to bus anyone to Presidio, TX?
Please provide some links so all this nonsense can be researched and debunked. (grin)

Sunday December 20, 2009, 11:25 am
It's farmers vs. fish for California water

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/20/its-farmers-vs-fish-for-california-water/

Sunday December 20, 2009, 12:00 pm
Gerry,
Thanks for the link. It was quite interesting.
It isn't really a CA vs fish issue. It's more of a question of how to balance the two, so that everyone wins.

Wolf,
Why didn't you read this article before making blatently outlandish claims about it?

Every time any animal is driven to artificial extinction, every other animals survival, including humans, is threatened.

Oh, and please tell us WHEN Obama's administration had time to take over CA's water. There has to be an official document somewhere. So I'd like you to direct us to it please.

Sunday December 20, 2009, 12:56 pm
Throughout the billions years history of the Earth, and short 5 million years history of humans, millions of species have emerged or gone extinct, so it is a scientific fact that to lose one species of fish, in order to promote the population of human existence, is a worthy loss. The fish can be relocated to populate another habitat in the state.

Sunday December 20, 2009, 1:13 pm
As for agricultural lands being depreciated due the water restrictions, the developers will eventually turn it into urban sprawl, residential communities, commercial developments, malls, industrial complexes, and roadways populated with traffic congestion. The resulting pollution will have long killed the fish, before the profits have settled into the bank accounts of the greedy.

Sunday December 20, 2009, 1:24 pm
But Gerry,
Your scenario speaks of natural selection. THIS isn't natural selection. This is an artificially induced imbalance which is causing problems all around. Also, it's been proven that removing a species and placing it in a new environment, is destructive to BOTH enviornments, including all the species affected in both places.

In the article I just read from Biteclub.com, which has a more complete and well-rounded view of all the difficulties this issue raises, it says that the smelt are an eco indicator of how well the environment is doing. And I do not believe" it is a scientific fact that to lose one species of fish, in order to promote the population of human existence, is a worthy loss."

That goes against every eco rule I've ever heard. We cannot survive without each other. There is a reason each of us exists. Even the pesky fleas and cockroaches have their place in the food chain.

Sunday December 20, 2009, 10:59 pm
The area in California that is involved in this had the water cut off by the Democrats. They are known as the greenbelt area of California and this is over a very small fish. Jobs have been lost in the thousands and farmers are as we speak losing farms that have been in their families for generations. I do not like Hannity as a rule as he keeps whining about the same things but he did do a very good story on this area. Met with the people concerned and those in government who are trying to help them. You should watch the story. It is heartbreaking and sheer stupidity on Obama's part that this is being allowed.

Monday December 21, 2009, 3:23 pm
1st of all, Obama doesn't get personally involved in every dispute in every state. We don't know that he is even aware of this issue. So, we might do well to refrain from blaming Obama personally for every little thing that happens in this country (grin).

2nd, as the article said, there are 3 VERY VALID sides to this issue, and ALL of them are acutally equally important. It isn't that nobody cares about the other two points of view. It's that nobody is willing to COMPROMISE with the other points of view.

When exactly was this water cut off? Are you SURE it was THIS administration that did it? What was our governors roll in trying to prevent the water changes? And are you SURE it was even cut off? That doesn't make sense to me. CA doesn't just store needed water. If it were cut off, even the fish would be dead.

Monday December 21, 2009, 3:51 pm
The water is being restricted from the farmers. A farmer who cannot water his land is waiting for rain.

Monday December 21, 2009, 5:55 pm
Arnie has been to see the Pres to try and get him to rethink the order he signed (maybe he never read what he was signing - appears to be an American thing?) He signed it in Feb I think at the request of a Dem Senator - You can find it if you want to .... look up anything to do with the California smelt .... and yes, it was THIS administration that did this. People are in real trouble because of it and the government is not listening ....

Tuesday December 22, 2009, 3:12 pm
Northern,
Here is what I found re Obama/California smelt/water:

Sep 30, 2009 9:10 am US/Pacific Officials Called To Conference On Calif. Drought

The Obama administration on Wednesday urged California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to call state lawmakers into a special session to deal with the state's water crisis.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar told lawmakers that water shortages and the degradation of the Delta Bay were the result of decades of inaction. He took exception to the criticism about the lack of federal action. He said the federal government has invested more than $400 million to upgrade the state's water infrastructure "after eight years of neglect."

The Interior Department says the drought is responsible for roughly three-quarters of the water shortage. Still, some lawmakers from the Central Valley are placing much of the blame on efforts to save the delta smelt, salmon and other fish.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said that mindset is too simplistic.

Hugh Hewitt: Forget jobs summit: Turn on California's water
By: Hugh Hewitt
Examiner Columnist
November 16, 2009

Since late last year the water lifeline from the north to the south has been reduced to a trickle.

This shows that it was the Bush administration that turned off the pumps that were sucking in and killing the smelt. That might have been a wise temporary stop-gap measure, but clearly it shouldn't be something that hurts everyone.

I was not able to find anything that Obama signed that would continue the problems. And, as Ms. Feinstein said, the mindset that preserving endangered fish is the problem is just too simplistic.

Wednesday December 23, 2009, 12:20 pm
It was signed as soon as Obama came into office. That is what I know. Watch the Hannity link on this issue as it describes exactly what happened. Arnie has been to the white house on several occasions trying to get Obama to uddo what he did .... I will look and post the info for you when I can ....

Wednesday December 23, 2009, 3:08 pm
Northern,
I have done so much research into this, and there just isn't anything.

I found where a CA judge ordered the pumps to be shut down TEMPORARILY in 2007. And there was a 7-week period in 2009 when the pumps were shut down, but 2 of them were re-opened to water crops and get drinking water to So. CA.

The only involvement I can see that Obama has is with Schwartzenager in coming up with a federal package for solving the water crises. YAY Obama!

Unfortunately, this also gives all the anti-Obamaites more fuel to complain about his spending. He's damned when he spends money to help, and dammed if he doesn't.


•In July 2007, the Governor directed the Department of Water resources to take immediate action to improve conditions in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta, to help restore its natural habitat and protect the Delta smelt and other species. The Governor issued immediate directives to protect the Delta using existing resources and also called for additional actions to be included as part of a comprehensive water package.

07/17/2007
“Today, I am calling for actions to help restore the Delta, the largest estuary on the West Coast and home to hundreds of native plant and animal species. The Delta is also one of the most vulnerable areas of our state. It faces dangers of contamination from a natural disaster or rising sea levels. And, we saw an example of its vulnerability when we had to shut off the pumps for nine days to protect the threatened Delta smelt,” said Governor Schwarzenegger.

That was back in July of 2007

Office of the Governor
Press Release (excerpts)
04/15/2009

Following the aerial tour, the Governor and Secretary Salazar announced $260 million in economic stimulus projects from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (Recovery Act) to help California address its long-term water supply challenges and devastating drought conditions.

In February, Gov. Schwarzenegger declared a state of emergency due to drought conditions statewide and ordered immediate action to manage the crisis. In the proclamation, the Governor exerts his executive authority to direct all state government agencies to utilize their resources, implement a state emergency plan and provide assistance for people, communities and businesses impacted by the drought.

Go to gov.ca.gov for the full stories thru the years.


This is from The Orange County Register News. Orange County CA is one of the most conservative and republican counties in the nation.

September 07, 2009 10:09 PM

FRESNO -- Federal officials planned to switch on two pumps in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta today to ensure that farms and cities in Southern California get the water they need as summer temperatures rise, authorities said.

The water pumps, located near Tracy, were turned off seven weeks ago in an effort to protect the delta smelt, a threatened fish whose population has reached an all-time low.


The only reason I can see why anyone would blame Obama, or hold him responsible for this is the same ol same ol story of twisting the truth to slam him.

Southern CA has had water wars with northern CA for decades. Drought has hampered ALL attempts to come to reasonable compromises. And now the eco-system, necessarily, is included in the mix. But none of this is Obama's doing. He and the Gov did come up with a plan, which clearly shows that he cares about the people AND the environment.

Wednesday December 23, 2009, 3:13 pm
And now, back to the regularly scheduled program of proving that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. (grin)

Friday February 12, 2010, 8:53 pm
Responding to Bye B's Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:23 am Post -
Your statement below -
"HE HAS DONE AFICAN AMERICANS A "TRUE" INJUSTICE, IN THAT THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER ONE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN."

Would you like to explain what you mean by your statement that because Obama is an African American that there will never be "another one in the White House again". Your comment stinks of racism. Are you trying to say that the American people are so stupid that because Obama happens to be black that we will punish all blacks from campaigning for the office of President because Obama is a failure? Are you saying that Americans don't don't the difference between the color of a persons skin and his politics that we would punish someone from obtaining the highest office of the land because of skin color?
I am anxious to hear what you have to say about this Bye B. or River or whoever you are...

Friday February 12, 2010, 11:06 pm
Thanks Lena,
I'd like to know the answer myself. But I'm not holding my breath for any kind of logical response. sigh.

Saturday February 13, 2010, 7:57 am
"HE HAS DONE AFICAN AMERICANS A "TRUE" INJUSTICE, IN THAT THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER ONE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN."

Missed that myself .... what a load of garbage .... Considering he never would have won the election without the votes of 'white' folk in America that is just a dumb remark .... Has nothing to do with it .... America has it problems on all sides of the fence and always will but I think a majority of people are over that already .... except for the wing nuts and you will find them everywhere.